COMMENTS: 86
Intriguing Plan in Michael Moore's Home Town: Bulldoze the Ghost 'Burbs, Return Them to Nature
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The government looking at expanding a pioneering scheme in Flint, Michigan, one of the poorest US cities, which involves razing entire districts and returning the land to nature.
Local politicians believe the city must contract by as much as 40 percent, concentrating the dwindling population and local services into a more viable area.
The radical experiment is the brainchild of Dan Kildee, treasurer of Genesee County, which includes Flint.
Having outlined his strategy to Barack Obama during the election campaign, Mr Kildee has now been approached by the US government and a group of charities who want him to apply what he has learnt to the rest of the country.
Mr Kildee said he will concentrate on 50 cities, identified in a recent study by the Brookings Institution, an influential Washington think-tank, as potentially needing to shrink substantially to cope with their declining fortunes.
Most are former industrial cities in the "rust belt" of America's Mid-West and North East. They include Detroit, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Memphis.
In Detroit, shattered by the woes of the US car industry, there are already plans to split it into a collection of small urban centres separated from each other by countryside.
"The real question is not whether these cities shrink – we're all shrinking – but whether we let it happen in a destructive or sustainable way," said Mr Kildee. "Decline is a fact of life in Flint. Resisting it is like resisting gravity."
Karina Pallagst, director of the Shrinking Cities in a Global Perspective programme at the University of California, Berkeley, said there was "both a cultural and political taboo" about admitting decline in America.
"Places like Flint have hit rock bottom. They're at the point where it's better to start knocking a lot of buildings down," she said.
Flint, sixty miles north of Detroit, was the original home of General Motors. The car giant once employed 79,000 local people but that figure has shrunk to around 8,000.
Unemployment is now approaching 20 per cent and the total population has almost halved to 110,000.
The exodus – particularly of young people – coupled with the consequent collapse in property prices, has left street after street in sections of the city almost entirely abandoned.
In the city centre, the once grand Durant Hotel – named after William Durant, GM's founder – is a symbol of the city's decline, said Mr Kildee. The large building has been empty since 1973, roughly when Flint's decline began.
Regarded as a model city in the motor industry's boom years, Flint may once again be emulated, though for very different reasons.
But Mr Kildee, who has lived there nearly all his life, said he had first to overcome a deeply ingrained American cultural mindset that "big is good" and that cities should sprawl – Flint covers 34 square miles.
He said: "The obsession with growth is sadly a very American thing. Across the US, there's an assumption that all development is good, that if communities are growing they are successful. If they're shrinking, they're failing."
But some Flint dustcarts are collecting just one rubbish bag a week, roads are decaying, police are very understaffed and there were simply too few people to pay for services, he said.
If the city didn't downsize it will eventually go bankrupt, he added.
Flint's recovery efforts have been helped by a new state law passed a few years ago which allowed local governments to buy up empty properties very cheaply.
They could then knock them down or sell them on to owners who will occupy them. The city wants to specialise in health and education services, both areas which cannot easily be relocated abroad.
The local authority has restored the city's attractive but formerly deserted centre but has pulled down 1,100 abandoned homes in outlying areas.
Mr Kildee estimated another 3,000 needed to be demolished, although the city boundaries will remain the same.
Already, some streets peter out into woods or meadows, no trace remaining of the homes that once stood there.
Choosing which areas to knock down will be delicate but many of them were already obvious, he said.
The city is buying up houses in more affluent areas to offer people in neighbourhoods it wants to demolish. Nobody will be forced to move, said Mr Kildee.
"Much of the land will be given back to nature. People will enjoy living near a forest or meadow," he said.
Mr Kildee acknowledged that some fellow Americans considered his solution "defeatist" but he insisted it was "no more defeatist than pruning an overgrown tree so it can bear fruit again."
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: MIST on Jun 14, 2009 2:32 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'll be watching.
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» Jobs to build cpnservation areas instead
Posted by: eksommer
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Posted by: weathered on Jun 14, 2009 4:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No, right now we're too busy redistributing wealth, torturing a new enemy we never had before and Lying to ourselves about the indelible fallout from a stolen election in 2000, 9/11, Irag/Afgn theft and Likud in the Oval office.
'by deceit we wage war' No kidding.
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» RE: lectrify the rails, built better infrastructures
Posted by: BobBrrz
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Jun 14, 2009 5:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But what must accompany this means to get people who live in the outlying communities ways to access jobs throughout the area.
It's not just be the reliance of Auto to creat a manufacutring base which has killed MI- it has been the refusal to build mass public transit for decades. Had our citizens had access to a light rail system, they could have remained in these cities and still held jobs in the growing suburban areas. Instead they left the city dwellers marooned. Only solution was to get the hell off the 'island'.
The antiquated Urban design itself creates numerous psychological as well as sociological problems. Tests on various species has proven that limited space has serious mental and communal consequences. Much of this research is Decades old- but no one -esp Gov't officials getting their pockets lined- have acted on this wealth of evidential research that we are Creating urban crime and poverty.
Instead of making urban living a choice, we have made them unfenced prisons. Free the people and give them the ability to truely choose where they want to live by giving them access to a vast public transit system.
Beyond this is the opprtunity to reignite the factories and industries by producing the components of a rail/bus system. Not to mention the environmental benefits. It set my hair on fire when that alcoholic BONER from OH couldn't comprehend how light rail manufactering would help the Rust Belt- Steel, Plastics, Fabrics, electronics, tool & die...ASSEMBLY!!!! Sound familiar you Pickled Fuck?!? Can't ya just smell the 12 yr old Scotch coming off him through the TV?
Relying on Cars has killed this state, The Region, in more ways than one!
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» RE: Why we need Light rail NOW
Posted by: uqa589
» Why Live in Flint?
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
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Posted by: progressive-life on Jun 14, 2009 5:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle on Jun 14, 2009 5:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This needs to happen where I live. Here in east-central Indiana, General Motors has been cutting off our fingers for years. We used to have over a dozen factories in my town which supplied parts for the auto plants. After this year, we will officially have zero. Blighted neighborhoods that cover up to a third of the city attract squatters and breed crime, and the city simply can't afford to operate at the level it has previously. The school system, road department, and police department are already imploding, and attempts at bringing new jobs in are slow going.
It won't matter how many jobs we bring in if nobody wants to live here in my town, though. I live in one of the few remaining good neighborhoods. Just a block over, solid blight. Decaying houses swarm with insects and have their doors and windows forced open. Siding is regularly stolen from vacant homes, making them look that much worse. While houses in my neighborhood have no trouble changing hands and attract fairly decent tenants, nobody wants to move into a dead neighborhood, especially when most of the properties have been rendered uninhabitable by decay. Even if we get new factories here - which we may before long - people would rather move out of town than live in what's described as 'one of the trashiest cities in the state'.
You could knock down entire city blocks here and nobody would miss them. The vacated property could be rebuilt on if and when we can attract anyone to it. Until then, having a rotting, collapsing house sitting on the lot is worse than nothing at all. I'm excited to see how this program turns out, and if it's successful, I might see if I can't bring it to the city's attention.
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» RE: I've Been Suggesting This...
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: heide on Jun 14, 2009 6:18 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
any of the wood ect going to be recycled??or just hauled to a dump????
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» RE: flint
Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» RE: flint
Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» RE: Flint
Posted by: badkitty
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Posted by: hagwind on Jun 14, 2009 6:32 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jane Jacobs, author of The Death and Life of Great American Cities (1961) and one of the greatest grassroots thinkers North America ever produced, would be proud.
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» RE: Since when is showing intelligence and foresight "defeatist"??
Posted by: BitcoDavid
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Posted by: Pissed Off Woman on Jun 14, 2009 6:47 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: And what about the homeless?
Posted by: BobBrrz
» RE: And what about the homeless?
Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» These commentors should watch the History Channel
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: These commentors should watch the History Channel
Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» RE: These commentors should watch the History Channel
Posted by: pomes
» RE: These commentors should watch the History Channel
Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» RE: And what about the homeless?
Posted by: pomes
» RE: And what about the homeless?
Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» You'd be astonished
Posted by: pomes
» RE: You'd be astonished
Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» So do NYC homeless want to move to Michigan?
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» Houses not salvageable; hard-core homeless don't want homes
Posted by: Beck
» Will you pay Michigan to take NYC's homeless?
Posted by: xvictor
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Posted by: LeonBNJ on Jun 14, 2009 7:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» "Some homes should be continued to be occupied "
Posted by: xvictor
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Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Jun 14, 2009 9:58 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are abundant resources on this planet for EVERYONE to have clean water, food, shelter, decent jobs, medical care, etc.!!!
Severely corrupt governments + corporations are why so many people are suffering!!!
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» So, how do you have all of this without that government or those corporations?
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» I've heard this sort of thinking many times...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
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Posted by: beeden on Jun 14, 2009 11:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rather than bulldoze these areas, sites should be gleaned of reusable materials and where possible utilised to renovate and upgrade residences closer to/within the city for homeless people. Trees and some plants already established in these areas should be protected, whilst other areas could become useful again for agricultural purposes.
Proper deconstructon of these areas to save materials and in some cases wholesale house removal, alongside caching of resources would provide valuable employment opportunities. They would also ensure that no toxic remainders are left in place to create future problems.
With established trees remaining and new plantings of area specific species, parklands could provide wildlife homes and the possibility of nature reserves for camping and other activities, a direct train/tram line (and bike paths) to the area would allow town residents non-car access to walking trails within the new park precincts. Mixed timber plantations on the perimeters would allow for different value added industries to set-up and offset monocultural plantation problems.
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» RE: New Parks and better Urban Planning
Posted by: weathered
» RE: New Parks and better Urban Planning
Posted by: pomes
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Posted by: Sojourner on Jun 14, 2009 12:55 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Capitalism makes more money from a few people pushing pencils. They hire pirates to steal from others. So long as their bottom line justifies their existence, other people can die off--no matter. "Socialism" means jobs, work, income.
Sure, our labor supply is so overgrown we can no longer put it to use in factories. So pay attention to human neglect, such as lousy education, violent neighborhoods, poor public health. That's where we do not have enough people, because "public" has been scorned for the last 30 years. Reagan taught Americans to thumb our noses at public service.
As you sow, so shall you reap.
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jun 14, 2009 1:52 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» I live here. The houses are already boarded-up and empty.
Posted by: Beck
» RE: I live here. The houses are already boarded-up and empty.
Posted by: souffrantfleur
» "|What about the people who used to live in these houses?"
Posted by: xvictor
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Posted by: eidolon on Jun 14, 2009 5:41 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Furthermore, the transnational network of food distribution we have in our country is totally illogical and unsustainable. Decentralized agriculture would reduce fuel consumption and the proliferation of pesticides, irradiation, genetic modification (patent tyranny), and other harmful technologies--not to mention foodborne illnesses.
Of course, a self-sustaining populace is a grave threat to the established power structure and these kind of reforms will not come without furious opposition. However, one can contribute towards smaller reform in their own way by supporting existing local food infrastructure. If you can, shop at farmers' markets and engage the vendors in discussions about organic and sustainable agricultural practices. I believe this is one of the best things a person can do to support the livelihood of their community.
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Posted by: itsthemedication on Jun 14, 2009 6:15 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Oh Right...
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Oh Right...
Posted by: MIST
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Posted by: maxpayne on Jun 14, 2009 8:11 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» MI is poor because it's filled with totally corrupt pols !
Posted by: FLYING DOOFUS
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Posted by: RobWheeler on Jun 15, 2009 11:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This whole recession is crazy. There are millions of things that need to be done to create a more sustainable country and future and we ought to be investing in them rather than in $700 billion for military spending. Wake up America, lets invest constructively in our future.
Rob Wheeler
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» RE: Knocking Down Buildings is Crazy; Instead People Need Jobs
Posted by: richholland
» People just don't get what these cities are like. These buildings need knocked down.
Posted by: Beck
» Hey, MI may have corrupt pols but that doesn't give them the right to knock buildings down !
Posted by: FLYING DOOFUS
» "...community planning process and federal support ..."
Posted by: xvictor
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Posted by: abstractedaway on Jun 16, 2009 2:05 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Homes that can still pass inspection could be offered to homeless folk, a kind of new homesteading act. However, materials from demolished homes can be recycled. Demolition is not destruction. It could reclaim materials that will rot otherwise.
That is a chance to revise some poor zoning and urban planning. It's also a job market for the locals to demolish some places, remodel others, and consider rebuilding other places green.
A fresh design could make a lot of difference. Orienting a building properly southward for its window exposure can knock 25% off of its heating and cooling costs, no other changes made. Designing a more walkable neighborhood could make for an optimistically green future. This is Flint's chance to undo car-centric suburban sprawl.
I think the idea has potential.
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Posted by: overseas on Jun 16, 2009 5:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: xvictor on Jun 16, 2009 6:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The majority of those shiny new developments had gone bust recently. I sincerely hope the investors, developers, and real estate concerns lost a lot of unrecoverable money. Amen.
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Jun 16, 2009 7:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We really need to shift our thinking, from consumerism, expansion, and individualism to us, we, ours, society! No matter your religion, or ethnicity we all want the same things namely: life, liberty, to raise our children, provide for our families, and lead full and productive lives. None of that requires massive consumerism nor massive expansionism both of which are encouraged by the corporate oligarchy!
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» RE: Past due.....
Posted by: JourneyHome
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Posted by: Archie1954 on Jun 16, 2009 8:35 AM
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Posted by: John More on Jun 16, 2009 8:42 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Leave Michigan to ROT IN HELL already. Come on over to TEXAS for a change !
Posted by: melloe2
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Posted by: Gravitas on Jun 16, 2009 9:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
p.s. It is a shame that some of the land couldn't be used for orchards instead of just wilderness.
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» RE: Great Idea
Posted by: WYGunston
» RE: Great Idea
Posted by: MyLeftFoot
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Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars on Jun 16, 2009 9:12 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'll take a 19th century Row House any day than some cookie cutter cud-er-sac. The other cities, well dude its Flint Michigan, who really want to live there? Gary Indiana is worse.
Hoosier Lotto: get Three "US Steel's" and win: 76% of the City of Gary... Yearly Propriety Taxes do apply if you just give up and abandon the place for Arizona ha ha!
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» RE: Do Not Touch Philly or Bmore
Posted by: WYGunston
» Give The Homeless, Illegals a hammer
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
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Posted by: willymack on Jun 16, 2009 10:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Flint plan, while laudable, will be meaningless without a concurrent decrease or cessation of our population growth.
I can see in my mind's eye what the Flint and Detroit areas must have looked like before they were ruined by "human activity". If the Upper Penninsula is any indication, they must have been beautiful, indeed.
Let's face it folks, NOTHING we humans can build can hold a candle to the extraordinary beauty of Nature.
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Posted by: gimmie shelter on Jun 16, 2009 12:23 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If houses like this became available many would want to move out of expensive to run homes into easy to run homes. Just an idea.
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Posted by: JourneyHome on Jun 16, 2009 1:38 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: JourneyHome on Jun 16, 2009 1:41 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Jun 16, 2009 1:51 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Great idea but Big Oil and Auto control MI lock stock and barrel.
Posted by: maxpayne
» single payer slam
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
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Posted by: Jeanne on Jun 16, 2009 7:22 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: gregoireb on Jun 17, 2009 7:26 AM
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Or you'll see a city block with empty, crumbling homes and lots of trash and one or two occupied homes out of the 15 or so homes that used to be there.
Flint has changed greatly since my childhood. It's currently a dying town in need of massive change.
Would the greenspace idea improve things? I don't know, but it can't make things any worse than they are now.
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Posted by: -matti on Jun 17, 2009 12:24 PM
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People! We need to get the "pristine wilderness" idea OUT of our heads! Crop cultivation and animal raising, if practiced correctly, can create a landscape with superior biodiversity and resilency than would result from leaving the land to "nature". The kind of forest that will grow in the abandoned house lots of Flint will only vaguely resemble the forest that was there before. This is because that previous forest was not "wilderness" but a carefully and regularly cultivated area of silviculture -tree farming for food and other resources.
Don't know how you'd enforce the kind of land-use policies you would need to do this right in MI, but there must be a way. Done properly, it could impeed future "redevelopment" back into unsustainable systems.
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Posted by: YogiBear on Jun 17, 2009 7:21 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Jun 19, 2009 6:05 PM
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if the Rich can't get the price they WANT
they'll get the State to buy them & tear them down...
& write it off as vast expensing ... so the profit they want, can be protected by short-term writeoffs
probably to be 'redeveloped' at a later date, with more government 'exceptions' in their agreements... few safety codes, or a tax lowering status, or a few passes on their requirements for development or their liquidity analysis... blah blah blah
they'll leave the citizens to be homeless rather than build affordable housing.
& our corrupt governments will help them do it, too!
look at the desperate & magnificent struggle for human & civil rights that occurs around the World
while we stand by & let ourselves slip into a shared desperation under the thumbs of folks who really think of our communities as 'market opportunities', 'economies', legal expenses, or 'human resources'
perspective, people.
Perspective.
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"Violence can only be concealed by a Lie, & the Lie can only be maintained by Violence." ... "Any man, who has once proclaimed Violence as his Method, is inevitably forced to take the Lie as his Principle" – Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.
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Posted by: FreeAmerica on Jun 19, 2009 9:26 PM
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These areas were once prosperous through the rigors of capitalism and industry. After a couple of generations of state and local liberal rule, greedy unions, excessive enviro and government regulations, and NAFTA, all of the jobs and prosperity have moved to third world countries where they don't have such prosperity killing things.
Liberalism and unions killed Michigan, and until we can figure out that capitalism built the prosperity and democrat socialism tore it down, we are going to make (are making) city after city into soviet style decay. There are a lot of similar lib success stories.. California, Baltimore, Detroit, New Orleans, Gary, DC. Now it is going nationwide under obama, pelosi and reed.
As far as recycling the houses, you should have sent them to China and Japan along with the jobs and prosperity.
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» RE: Let 'em stand
Posted by: gimmie shelter
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Posted by: kozis on Jun 22, 2009 3:12 PM
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Agenda 21 is a 40 chapter document to create a one world government. The U.S.A section of the document details a "wildlands plan" to shut down all national, state and local parks. People will be prohibited from these lands in the name of "protecting the enviroment".
Create "human zones" where people are alowed to live, which is represented by black dots on a map of this new America. Cities will be bulldozed and rebuild as green eco friendly cities with smart grid technology.
George Bush Sr. made this law with an executive order signed back in 1992. President Obama has expressed our support for the U.N.'s agenda for the 21st. Century.
Families are declared "unsustainable" and therefore illegal, property is "unsustainable" and therefore illegal, etc.
Agenda 21- Sustainable Development
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJp0P6eggXU
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Posted by: greenman on Jun 23, 2009 5:42 AM
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Greenman
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Posted by: cori on Jul 3, 2009 8:07 AM
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Posted by: MIST on Jun 14, 2009 2:32 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'll be watching.
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» Jobs to build cpnservation areas instead
Posted by: eksommer
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Posted by: weathered on Jun 14, 2009 4:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No, right now we're too busy redistributing wealth, torturing a new enemy we never had before and Lying to ourselves about the indelible fallout from a stolen election in 2000, 9/11, Irag/Afgn theft and Likud in the Oval office.
'by deceit we wage war' No kidding.
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» RE: lectrify the rails, built better infrastructures
Posted by: BobBrrz
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Purple Girl on Jun 14, 2009 5:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But what must accompany this means to get people who live in the outlying communities ways to access jobs throughout the area.
It's not just be the reliance of Auto to creat a manufacutring base which has killed MI- it has been the refusal to build mass public transit for decades. Had our citizens had access to a light rail system, they could have remained in these cities and still held jobs in the growing suburban areas. Instead they left the city dwellers marooned. Only solution was to get the hell off the 'island'.
The antiquated Urban design itself creates numerous psychological as well as sociological problems. Tests on various species has proven that limited space has serious mental and communal consequences. Much of this research is Decades old- but no one -esp Gov't officials getting their pockets lined- have acted on this wealth of evidential research that we are Creating urban crime and poverty.
Instead of making urban living a choice, we have made them unfenced prisons. Free the people and give them the ability to truely choose where they want to live by giving them access to a vast public transit system.
Beyond this is the opprtunity to reignite the factories and industries by producing the components of a rail/bus system. Not to mention the environmental benefits. It set my hair on fire when that alcoholic BONER from OH couldn't comprehend how light rail manufactering would help the Rust Belt- Steel, Plastics, Fabrics, electronics, tool & die...ASSEMBLY!!!! Sound familiar you Pickled Fuck?!? Can't ya just smell the 12 yr old Scotch coming off him through the TV?
Relying on Cars has killed this state, The Region, in more ways than one!
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» RE: Why we need Light rail NOW
Posted by: uqa589
» Why Live in Flint?
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
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Posted by: progressive-life on Jun 14, 2009 5:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle on Jun 14, 2009 5:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This needs to happen where I live. Here in east-central Indiana, General Motors has been cutting off our fingers for years. We used to have over a dozen factories in my town which supplied parts for the auto plants. After this year, we will officially have zero. Blighted neighborhoods that cover up to a third of the city attract squatters and breed crime, and the city simply can't afford to operate at the level it has previously. The school system, road department, and police department are already imploding, and attempts at bringing new jobs in are slow going.
It won't matter how many jobs we bring in if nobody wants to live here in my town, though. I live in one of the few remaining good neighborhoods. Just a block over, solid blight. Decaying houses swarm with insects and have their doors and windows forced open. Siding is regularly stolen from vacant homes, making them look that much worse. While houses in my neighborhood have no trouble changing hands and attract fairly decent tenants, nobody wants to move into a dead neighborhood, especially when most of the properties have been rendered uninhabitable by decay. Even if we get new factories here - which we may before long - people would rather move out of town than live in what's described as 'one of the trashiest cities in the state'.
You could knock down entire city blocks here and nobody would miss them. The vacated property could be rebuilt on if and when we can attract anyone to it. Until then, having a rotting, collapsing house sitting on the lot is worse than nothing at all. I'm excited to see how this program turns out, and if it's successful, I might see if I can't bring it to the city's attention.
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» RE: I've Been Suggesting This...
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: heide on Jun 14, 2009 6:18 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
any of the wood ect going to be recycled??or just hauled to a dump????
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» RE: flint
Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» RE: flint
Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» RE: Flint
Posted by: badkitty
Comments are closed-
Posted by: hagwind on Jun 14, 2009 6:32 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jane Jacobs, author of The Death and Life of Great American Cities (1961) and one of the greatest grassroots thinkers North America ever produced, would be proud.
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» RE: Since when is showing intelligence and foresight "defeatist"??
Posted by: BitcoDavid
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Posted by: Pissed Off Woman on Jun 14, 2009 6:47 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: And what about the homeless?
Posted by: BobBrrz
» RE: And what about the homeless?
Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» These commentors should watch the History Channel
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: These commentors should watch the History Channel
Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» RE: These commentors should watch the History Channel
Posted by: pomes
» RE: These commentors should watch the History Channel
Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» RE: And what about the homeless?
Posted by: pomes
» RE: And what about the homeless?
Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» You'd be astonished
Posted by: pomes
» RE: You'd be astonished
Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» So do NYC homeless want to move to Michigan?
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» Houses not salvageable; hard-core homeless don't want homes
Posted by: Beck
» Will you pay Michigan to take NYC's homeless?
Posted by: xvictor
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Posted by: LeonBNJ on Jun 14, 2009 7:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» "Some homes should be continued to be occupied "
Posted by: xvictor
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Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Jun 14, 2009 9:58 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are abundant resources on this planet for EVERYONE to have clean water, food, shelter, decent jobs, medical care, etc.!!!
Severely corrupt governments + corporations are why so many people are suffering!!!
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» So, how do you have all of this without that government or those corporations?
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» I've heard this sort of thinking many times...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
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Posted by: beeden on Jun 14, 2009 11:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rather than bulldoze these areas, sites should be gleaned of reusable materials and where possible utilised to renovate and upgrade residences closer to/within the city for homeless people. Trees and some plants already established in these areas should be protected, whilst other areas could become useful again for agricultural purposes.
Proper deconstructon of these areas to save materials and in some cases wholesale house removal, alongside caching of resources would provide valuable employment opportunities. They would also ensure that no toxic remainders are left in place to create future problems.
With established trees remaining and new plantings of area specific species, parklands could provide wildlife homes and the possibility of nature reserves for camping and other activities, a direct train/tram line (and bike paths) to the area would allow town residents non-car access to walking trails within the new park precincts. Mixed timber plantations on the perimeters would allow for different value added industries to set-up and offset monocultural plantation problems.
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» RE: New Parks and better Urban Planning
Posted by: weathered
» RE: New Parks and better Urban Planning
Posted by: pomes
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Posted by: Sojourner on Jun 14, 2009 12:55 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Capitalism makes more money from a few people pushing pencils. They hire pirates to steal from others. So long as their bottom line justifies their existence, other people can die off--no matter. "Socialism" means jobs, work, income.
Sure, our labor supply is so overgrown we can no longer put it to use in factories. So pay attention to human neglect, such as lousy education, violent neighborhoods, poor public health. That's where we do not have enough people, because "public" has been scorned for the last 30 years. Reagan taught Americans to thumb our noses at public service.
As you sow, so shall you reap.
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jun 14, 2009 1:52 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» I live here. The houses are already boarded-up and empty.
Posted by: Beck
» RE: I live here. The houses are already boarded-up and empty.
Posted by: souffrantfleur
» "|What about the people who used to live in these houses?"
Posted by: xvictor
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Posted by: eidolon on Jun 14, 2009 5:41 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Furthermore, the transnational network of food distribution we have in our country is totally illogical and unsustainable. Decentralized agriculture would reduce fuel consumption and the proliferation of pesticides, irradiation, genetic modification (patent tyranny), and other harmful technologies--not to mention foodborne illnesses.
Of course, a self-sustaining populace is a grave threat to the established power structure and these kind of reforms will not come without furious opposition. However, one can contribute towards smaller reform in their own way by supporting existing local food infrastructure. If you can, shop at farmers' markets and engage the vendors in discussions about organic and sustainable agricultural practices. I believe this is one of the best things a person can do to support the livelihood of their community.
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Posted by: itsthemedication on Jun 14, 2009 6:15 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Oh Right...
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Oh Right...
Posted by: MIST
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Posted by: maxpayne on Jun 14, 2009 8:11 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» MI is poor because it's filled with totally corrupt pols !
Posted by: FLYING DOOFUS
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Posted by: RobWheeler on Jun 15, 2009 11:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This whole recession is crazy. There are millions of things that need to be done to create a more sustainable country and future and we ought to be investing in them rather than in $700 billion for military spending. Wake up America, lets invest constructively in our future.
Rob Wheeler
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» RE: Knocking Down Buildings is Crazy; Instead People Need Jobs
Posted by: richholland
» People just don't get what these cities are like. These buildings need knocked down.
Posted by: Beck
» Hey, MI may have corrupt pols but that doesn't give them the right to knock buildings down !
Posted by: FLYING DOOFUS
» "...community planning process and federal support ..."
Posted by: xvictor
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Posted by: abstractedaway on Jun 16, 2009 2:05 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Homes that can still pass inspection could be offered to homeless folk, a kind of new homesteading act. However, materials from demolished homes can be recycled. Demolition is not destruction. It could reclaim materials that will rot otherwise.
That is a chance to revise some poor zoning and urban planning. It's also a job market for the locals to demolish some places, remodel others, and consider rebuilding other places green.
A fresh design could make a lot of difference. Orienting a building properly southward for its window exposure can knock 25% off of its heating and cooling costs, no other changes made. Designing a more walkable neighborhood could make for an optimistically green future. This is Flint's chance to undo car-centric suburban sprawl.
I think the idea has potential.
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Posted by: overseas on Jun 16, 2009 5:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: xvictor on Jun 16, 2009 6:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The majority of those shiny new developments had gone bust recently. I sincerely hope the investors, developers, and real estate concerns lost a lot of unrecoverable money. Amen.
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Jun 16, 2009 7:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We really need to shift our thinking, from consumerism, expansion, and individualism to us, we, ours, society! No matter your religion, or ethnicity we all want the same things namely: life, liberty, to raise our children, provide for our families, and lead full and productive lives. None of that requires massive consumerism nor massive expansionism both of which are encouraged by the corporate oligarchy!
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» RE: Past due.....
Posted by: JourneyHome
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Posted by: Archie1954 on Jun 16, 2009 8:35 AM
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Posted by: John More on Jun 16, 2009 8:42 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Leave Michigan to ROT IN HELL already. Come on over to TEXAS for a change !
Posted by: melloe2
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Posted by: Gravitas on Jun 16, 2009 9:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
p.s. It is a shame that some of the land couldn't be used for orchards instead of just wilderness.
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» RE: Great Idea
Posted by: WYGunston
» RE: Great Idea
Posted by: MyLeftFoot
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Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars on Jun 16, 2009 9:12 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'll take a 19th century Row House any day than some cookie cutter cud-er-sac. The other cities, well dude its Flint Michigan, who really want to live there? Gary Indiana is worse.
Hoosier Lotto: get Three "US Steel's" and win: 76% of the City of Gary... Yearly Propriety Taxes do apply if you just give up and abandon the place for Arizona ha ha!
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» RE: Do Not Touch Philly or Bmore
Posted by: WYGunston
» Give The Homeless, Illegals a hammer
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
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Posted by: willymack on Jun 16, 2009 10:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Flint plan, while laudable, will be meaningless without a concurrent decrease or cessation of our population growth.
I can see in my mind's eye what the Flint and Detroit areas must have looked like before they were ruined by "human activity". If the Upper Penninsula is any indication, they must have been beautiful, indeed.
Let's face it folks, NOTHING we humans can build can hold a candle to the extraordinary beauty of Nature.
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Posted by: gimmie shelter on Jun 16, 2009 12:23 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If houses like this became available many would want to move out of expensive to run homes into easy to run homes. Just an idea.
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Posted by: JourneyHome on Jun 16, 2009 1:38 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: JourneyHome on Jun 16, 2009 1:41 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Jun 16, 2009 1:51 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Great idea but Big Oil and Auto control MI lock stock and barrel.
Posted by: maxpayne
» single payer slam
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
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Posted by: Jeanne on Jun 16, 2009 7:22 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: gregoireb on Jun 17, 2009 7:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Or you'll see a city block with empty, crumbling homes and lots of trash and one or two occupied homes out of the 15 or so homes that used to be there.
Flint has changed greatly since my childhood. It's currently a dying town in need of massive change.
Would the greenspace idea improve things? I don't know, but it can't make things any worse than they are now.
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Posted by: -matti on Jun 17, 2009 12:24 PM
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People! We need to get the "pristine wilderness" idea OUT of our heads! Crop cultivation and animal raising, if practiced correctly, can create a landscape with superior biodiversity and resilency than would result from leaving the land to "nature". The kind of forest that will grow in the abandoned house lots of Flint will only vaguely resemble the forest that was there before. This is because that previous forest was not "wilderness" but a carefully and regularly cultivated area of silviculture -tree farming for food and other resources.
Don't know how you'd enforce the kind of land-use policies you would need to do this right in MI, but there must be a way. Done properly, it could impeed future "redevelopment" back into unsustainable systems.
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Posted by: YogiBear on Jun 17, 2009 7:21 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Jun 19, 2009 6:05 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if the Rich can't get the price they WANT
they'll get the State to buy them & tear them down...
& write it off as vast expensing ... so the profit they want, can be protected by short-term writeoffs
probably to be 'redeveloped' at a later date, with more government 'exceptions' in their agreements... few safety codes, or a tax lowering status, or a few passes on their requirements for development or their liquidity analysis... blah blah blah
they'll leave the citizens to be homeless rather than build affordable housing.
& our corrupt governments will help them do it, too!
look at the desperate & magnificent struggle for human & civil rights that occurs around the World
while we stand by & let ourselves slip into a shared desperation under the thumbs of folks who really think of our communities as 'market opportunities', 'economies', legal expenses, or 'human resources'
perspective, people.
Perspective.
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"... tolerance of intolerance is cowardice..." ~ Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
"Violence can only be concealed by a Lie, & the Lie can only be maintained by Violence." ... "Any man, who has once proclaimed Violence as his Method, is inevitably forced to take the Lie as his Principle" – Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.
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Posted by: FreeAmerica on Jun 19, 2009 9:26 PM
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These areas were once prosperous through the rigors of capitalism and industry. After a couple of generations of state and local liberal rule, greedy unions, excessive enviro and government regulations, and NAFTA, all of the jobs and prosperity have moved to third world countries where they don't have such prosperity killing things.
Liberalism and unions killed Michigan, and until we can figure out that capitalism built the prosperity and democrat socialism tore it down, we are going to make (are making) city after city into soviet style decay. There are a lot of similar lib success stories.. California, Baltimore, Detroit, New Orleans, Gary, DC. Now it is going nationwide under obama, pelosi and reed.
As far as recycling the houses, you should have sent them to China and Japan along with the jobs and prosperity.
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» RE: Let 'em stand
Posted by: gimmie shelter
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Posted by: kozis on Jun 22, 2009 3:12 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Agenda 21 is a 40 chapter document to create a one world government. The U.S.A section of the document details a "wildlands plan" to shut down all national, state and local parks. People will be prohibited from these lands in the name of "protecting the enviroment".
Create "human zones" where people are alowed to live, which is represented by black dots on a map of this new America. Cities will be bulldozed and rebuild as green eco friendly cities with smart grid technology.
George Bush Sr. made this law with an executive order signed back in 1992. President Obama has expressed our support for the U.N.'s agenda for the 21st. Century.
Families are declared "unsustainable" and therefore illegal, property is "unsustainable" and therefore illegal, etc.
Agenda 21- Sustainable Development
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJp0P6eggXU
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Posted by: greenman on Jun 23, 2009 5:42 AM
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Greenman
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Posted by: cori on Jul 3, 2009 8:07 AM
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