COMMENTS: 50
How We Talk About the Environment Has Everything to Do with Whether We'll Save It
Sign up to stay up to date on the latest Environment headlines via email.
EcoAmerica is soon to make public a report on the framing of the environment called "Climate and Energy Truths: Our Common Future." The New York Times, on May 1, 2009, ran a front-page story on the report by John M. Broder called "Seeking to save the Planet, with a Thesaurus." It amounted to a belittlement of the report.
Broder quoted Drexel University Professor Robert J. Brulle as saying that "ecoAmerica's campaign was a mirror image of what industry and political conservatives were doing. 'The form is the same; the message is just flipped,' he said. 'You want to sell toothpaste, we'll sell it. You want to sell global warming, we'll sell that. It's the use of advertising techniques to manipulate public opinion.'"
The story missed most of the main issues, but at least it was on the front page. Broder, a fine environmental policy reporter, did his best with a very limited understanding of framing. I am glad that Broder and the Times saw that the issue is significant enough for the front page.
This is an attempt to make better sense of that story.
Framing is Understanding
How the environment is understood by the American public is crucial: it vastly affects the future of our earth and every living being on it.
The technical term for understanding within the cognitive sciences is "framing." We think, mostly unconsciously, in terms of systems of structures called "frames." Each frame is a neural circuit, physically in our brains. We use our systems of frame-circuitry to understand everything, and we reason using frame-internal logics. Frame systems are organized in terms of values, and how we reason reflects our values, and our values determine our sense of identity. In short, framing is a big-deal.
All of our language is defined in terms of our frame-circuitry. Words activate that circuitry, and the more we hear the words, the stronger their frames get. But if our language does not fit our frame circuitry, it will not be understood, or will be misunderstood.
That is why it matters how we talk about our environment.
But the frame circuitry in our brains doesn't change overnight. Just using the language of scientific facts and figures does not mean that the significance -- especially the moral significance -- of those facts and figures will be understood. That moral significance can only be communicated honestly and effectively using the language of value-based frames, preferably frames already there in the minds of the public.
What makes this hard is that there are two competing valued-based systems of frames operating in our politics, one progressive and one conservative. Parts of the conservative framing system is actually at odds with a realistic understanding of the environmental problems facing us.
For many years, the powerful conservative Republican messaging system in the country has communicated a greatly misleading picture to the public, successfully getting their frame-circuits established in the brains of a large proportion of the public. Meanwhile, the environmental movement and the Democrats have done a less-than-sterling job of communicating the reality of what we all face.
Luckily, a large proportion of the public has versions of both conservative and progressive value-systems in their brains, applying to different issues. Many Americans are conservative on some issues and progressive on others. It would be nice if political value systems were not involved here, but they are. The good news is that it may be possible to activate a realistic view of our situation by using the fact that many swing voters and even many Republicans are partially progressive, from the perspective of the value-systems already in place in their brains. If we are to talk about the environment effectively, we need to make use of this neural fact to bring about a true understanding of our situation through honest communication.
What the Times Missed
The summary report, commissioned and publicly presented by Bob Perkowitz of ecoAmerica, discussed the results of message research done by Celinda Lake and Drew Westen. Lake is one of the most prominent Democratic pollsters and Westen, a psychology professor at Emory University, is the author of the excellent book, The Political Brain. These are people to be taken seriously. They had been asked how environmentalists should be responding to right-wing attacks on climate and energy issues.
What about Robert J. Brulle? He is a sociologist who has written studies about the sociological divisions in the environmental movement. He seems unaware of the extensive research on framing in the cognitive sciences. He comes from a social movement tradition that uses the concept of "discursive frames," which are conscious and superficial, though not inaccurate. He discusses movements that have different "discourses," -- preservation versus conservation, versus deep ecology, versus environmental justice, versus ecofeminism, and so on. Correct but superficial, not at all getting to what values are the same across these social movements. Nothing about unconscious value systems and frames physically realized as neural networks in the brain. And nothing about how to respond to the Right's attacks. Of course, Brulle would see Westen and Lake as selling toothpaste. And not surprisingly, Broder, a reporter on environmental policy not cognitive science, would miss the brain-based determinants of public understanding. Brulle and Broder are both fine folks with all-too-common limits on what they understand about how brains work.
Unfortunately, the ecoAmerica report plays into that misunderstanding. Much of the report uses the language, not of understanding the significance of the scientific facts and figures, but of sleazy marketing: "winning messages," "appeal to," "generate positive emotional responses," "Americans like ...," "top messages beat ..."
The framing report could have been framed better.
What Westen and Lake Get Right
I've spent a number of years studying, writing, and speaking publicly about environmental communications, based on results from the cognitive sciences. Westen, in his contribution to the report, makes many of the same observations: speak the truth, stick to the high ground, play offense not defense, appeal to the best in people.
Most people don't understand all the facts and figures thrown at them. People think in terms of fundamental values like freedom and responsibility, and themes that are close to their everyday lives, like health, jobs, and their children's future. Polluting fuels are dirty, both physically and morally, and should be called that.
I'm delighted to see these basic observations from the cognitive sciences finally getting applied. I don't agree with all their conclusions and language recommendations, but that is beside the point. They do get a lot right. It is about time. They deserve real credit.
An Unfortunate Diagram
Unfortunately, one of the things Westen and Lake get right is in an incomprehensible diagram on the back page: an explanation of why discussions of climate fail. It is hidden in a discussion of "associations," an inadequate way of discussing the public's frame-based logic. Climate and weather are usually understood as beyond immediate causation, something you are subject to, but can't just go out and change right away. Climate is not directly and causally connected to the values that underlie our concerns about our planet's future: empathy, responsibility, freedom, and our ability to thrive. They try to say that in the diagram, but the arrows and lines don't communicate it.
What Westen and Lake Miss
The right wing has spent billions of dollars over decades on a widespread system of think tanks, language experts, training institutes for speakers, grassroots organizing, buying media, computer communications, and the daily booking of speakers in the media across the country. They have worked long-term at a deep level. They have gotten their deepest values into the brains of tens of millions of Americans.
The Westen-Lake messaging approach is short-term; something that can be said straightforwardly tomorrow. Much of the argumentation is sensible. Nonetheless, there are huge holes, though they are much more difficult to deal with and one can understand why Westen and Lake didn't go there. Here is what is missing.
First, the public's very understanding of nature has to change. We are part of nature; nature is not separate from us. Nature nurtures us. The destructive exploitation of nature is evil. What is good is the use of nature that doesn't use up nature.
Second, the economic and ecological meltdowns have the same cause: the unregulated free market and the idea that greed is good and that the natural world is a resource for short-term private enrichment. The result has been deadly, toxic assets and a toxic atmosphere.
Third, the global economy and ecology are both systems. Global causes are systemic, not local. Global risk is systemic, not local. The localization of causation and risk is what has brought about our twin disasters. We have to think in global, system terms and we don't do so naturally. That is why a massive communications effort is needed.
Fourth, the Right's economic arguments need to be countered. Is it too expensive to save the earth? How could it be? If the earth goes, business goes.
Fifth, we are the polar bears. Human existence is threatened, and the existence of most living beings on earth.
Sixth, we own the air jointly and we can't transfer ownership. Polluting corporations are dumping pollution into our air. They need to gradually be made to stop, two-percent less a year for 40 years: that is what a "cap" on carbon dioxide pollution is about. And meanwhile the polluters should pay us dumping fees to offset the cost of fuel increases and pay for the development of better fuels.
Seventh, even the most successful emissions cap would only take us halfway. Business needs to do its part to take us the rest of the way. Large corporations need to face up to reality and join in the effort.
Finally, for those in the business world: Corporate interests are constantly putting forth arguments based on cost-benefit analysis. But the very mathematics of cost-benefit analysis is anti-ecological; the equations themselves are destructive of the earth.
The basic math uses subtraction: the benefits minus the costs summed over time indefinitely. Now those "benefits" and "costs" are seen in monetary terms, as if all values involving the future of the earth were monetary.
As any economist knows, future money is worth less than present money. How much less? The equation has a factor that tells you how much: e (2.781828...) to the power minus-d times t, where t is time and d is the discount rate. Now e to a negative power gets very small very fast. Just how fast depends on the exact discount rate (that is, interest rate), but any reasonable one is a disaster. The equation says that, in a fairly short time, any monetary benefits compared to costs will tend to zero. That says there are no long-term benefits to saving the earth!
Cost-benefit analysis is just the wrong paradigm for thinking about global warming.
Those are among the big ideas that have to be understood by the public. Language is needed, imagery is needed -- whatever will communicate the significance of the truth.
Ideas like these have to be repeated over and over. Liberals don't like repetition, but that's what it takes. Why? Because that's how brains work.
The ecoAmerica report, when it appears, should be taken seriously -- and critically. The issues the report raises are too important to be belittled.
Stay up to date with the latest Environment headlines via email
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Honky the Nihilist VI on May 20, 2009 12:21 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Only in the past 200 years have humans numbered over 1 billion.
Posted by: ProfBob
» RE: Only in the past 200 years have humans numbered over 1 billion.
Posted by: richholland
» What are you on about?
Posted by: truthlover
» RE: What are you on about?
Posted by: richholland
» RE: "We need more than uninformed opinions if we are going to save the planet for the human race."
Posted by: Quist
» I keep hearing that, but it's not really true
Posted by: truthlover
» The frames we need to change are deeply rooted and culturally cherished
Posted by: pelican beak
» The frames we need to change are deeply rooted and culturally cherished, continued
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: Only in the past 200 years have humans numbered over 1 billion.
Posted by: garblesnatchy
» May I ask...
Posted by: truthlover
» RE: Only in the past 200 years have humans numbered over 1 billion.
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Moz Volta on May 20, 2009 1:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What the Democrats have to do is stop listening to Republicans. It has never been a good idea. It's like listening to a five year old and taking his advice seriously. Especially on a subject in which they turn to the bible, or just plain BS, for answers.
One of the scariest things I've ever heard in my life was from a colleague of mine. I asked if she cared for the environment. Her answer: no, because Jesus is coming back soon anyway, so what's the point? What's truly scary: there are millions of churchies who think the same and act (and vote) accordingly.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: It is not just politics or religion...it is ECONOMICS.
Posted by: Quist
» Yes, the economy is the problem.
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» Turning to the bible
Posted by: truthlover
Comments are closed-
Posted by: tony_opmoc on May 20, 2009 2:00 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Their success has been phenomenal
Most people now believe that man made CO2 is responsible for starting an irreversible process that will lead to runaway Global Warming resulting in total environmental destruction making the Earth uninhabitable.
The Propaganda is Everywhere - daily in the media on TV, in the newspapers, on the internet and even in school text books.
The proposed solution is to attempt to massively reduce CO2 emmissions.
You guys have done a brilliant job.
Unfortunately the message you are sending is unscientific garbage.
The issues of CO2, Climate Change, Energy, Pollution, Environmental Destruction, Resource Extraction - whilst related are SEPERATE.
The proposed solution will solve nothing except the overpopulation of the Planet by Human Beings. It will kill Billions in a World turned into Hell - as a direct result of your policies.
Your cure is far worse than the disease.
You are trying to fix the wrong problem.
CO2 is not a pollutant - and increased levels will be beneficial for all life on this planet.
But the architects of the policy are trying to kill life on this planet, because they are convinced that is the only way to save it.
You see the mess that the World is in, as a result of having lunatics in Control of Government and Large Corporate Companies who's only interest is Profit, Greed and Power
Well Your solutions will kill not just solve those problems - they will reduce the population to under 1 Billion and turn us back into the dark ages.
There are far better solutions - but all you lunatics want is an effing Carbon Tradng Scheme
You are all effin mad.
(Great Communicators though)
Tony
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: The Environmental Movement Has Been Incredibly Successful At Spreading Propaganda
Posted by: richholland
» RE: The Environmental Movement Has Been Incredibly Successful At Spreading Propaganda
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» 2 + 2 = 4. Everyone believes it. Mathematicians' propaganda has succeeded!
Posted by: truthlover
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ellie on May 20, 2009 5:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
earth is getting weary of the biting and itching and illness from human activity trying like crazy to kill her...
how's that for a new frame???
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: the end result is...
Posted by: zeq2m9
» Gaia loves you, ellie.
Posted by: grammasanity
» RE: the end result is... bonus awarded!
Posted by: DaBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maxpayne on May 20, 2009 6:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: leafsong1 on May 20, 2009 6:58 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PaulK on May 20, 2009 7:16 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The humans accepted global thermonuclear war as a steady-state balance. Death, anyone?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: The humans accepted massive cancer deaths
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» USA still has 20,000 rubble-bouncers left over
Posted by: PaulK
» DEATH IS!
Posted by: grammasanity
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Jaffe on May 20, 2009 11:25 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Which means, in effect, that the technological universe is at least equivalent to what used to be called nature. It means that biospheres and cyborgian animals are equivalent to actual wilderness and "real" animals.
And which means finally that silicon based "realities" out-trump carbon-based?
How then does one reason with these 21st century young people who wear their "high" technology next to their heart, even as suicide bombers carry their explosives strapped to their chest?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: What about virtuality?
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: What about virtuality?
Posted by: Jaffe
» RE: What about virtuality?
Posted by: grammasanity
» RE: What about virtuality?
Posted by: Jaffe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: aivakhiv on May 20, 2009 2:29 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Resonating minds and life itself
Posted by: grammasanity
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PaulK on May 20, 2009 2:55 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans are parochial. Our great great grandfathers saw the rest of the world as non-democratic savages, and we were the world's Illuminati, a light unto the nations. Since then, a hundred foreign nations have gone at least ostensibly democratic, many have better health care than the U.S., and they've been turning out a few million engineers.
One thing that Americans lack is an understanding that we, the people, need to cooperate with people in other nations on solutions. We need a comprehensive solution that bans war, a huge CO2 source, that treats common people in all nations with considerable respect for their basic rights, so that they don't have to burn down their own forests for fuel, and that rewards international innovation, not just each country's innovators within that country's own borders only, although that's a start.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Can't we put up a wall to keep the foreign CO2 out?
Posted by: Jaffe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: obmit83 on May 20, 2009 3:06 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.projectearth.com/
http://tiny.cc/JMJ8M
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: grammasanity on May 20, 2009 4:35 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DaBear on May 20, 2009 4:58 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Principled conservatives have a lot less resistance to the idea of global warming (even human caused) and climate change. I've found many principled cons are actually allies on many levels. Because if I frame things in terms of principles, common ground suddenly appears and action can be had.
But Ideologue conservatives are hell. It's like arguing with a four year old who swears one minute the sky is really under the ground and the next minute the sky is just your parental plot to take their stuffed animal away (that the stuffed animal is covered in shit doesn't seem to factor into their minds).
David Korten talks about this in his book The Great Turning and explains them in terms of the five levels of consciousness, which in themselves are frames (although I'm sure George would find a way to say no to that, being kinda wonky himself). Conservative ideologues tend to be stuck in Imperial Consciousness: where the world is parsed into "power seekers [who] live in [a reality defined as] My World, play up to the powerful, and exploit the oppressed."
Principled cons tend to be in the next higher level of consciousness: Socialized Consciousness where "Good Citizens live in a Small World, play by the rules of their identity group and expect a fair reward." These guys are easier to "swing" with us progressives, who tend to be in either Cultural Consciousness or Spiritual Consciousness levels of reality.
The common frame is principles-based. And principled cons understand that a progressive using such a frame is neither "cruising them to swing" against their interest nor selling them a line. The frame talks.
But with an ideologue, it's futile. You cannot partner an adult with a 4 year old child. It just doesn't work. We need to excise the 4 year olds from gubamint and make them grow up so society no longer suffers their tantrums.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DaBear on May 20, 2009 5:09 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Indeed. It's also the wrong paradigm for thinking about solving or coping with global warming/climate change.
When one comes up against the liberal (or even progressive) ideologue, who comprise most of the doom and gloom crowd, one finds a group absolutely insistant that NO alternative energy can EXACTLY match cheap oil in EXACTLY the same ways therefore we shouldn't waste time and money on ANY solution because it won't make the world the same as it was fifty years ago (pre-peak-oil).
That's the importance of frames in discourse. [I loved how Lakoff got down on "discourses" which is really his failure to comprehend how academia and anthropology (who originated the "discursive" terminology) and sociology (who is slowly catching on to twenty-year old knowledge bases) work in particular. Sometimes George can be a real chump.]
Frames are the razor for cutting the discursive fat and cleaning up the collective conversation. Framing properly allows Lakoff to cut out that vital lesson that "Cost-benefit analysis is just the wrong paradigm for thinking about global warming." Applied to solutions/adaptations to global warming, it is imperative we don't allow CBA to be the paradigm or frame there as well.
Reality is dealing with a systemic problem has to occur on a systemic level while local adaptations will vary necessarily. A one-size fits all solution won't and cannot work. In one bioregion ethanol, biodiesel, algae, solar PV, wind, etc. will be merely one small part of a broadly devised and conceptually varied response, while systemically, continental organizations (gubamints, NGOs, etc) will have to dismantle the status quo whether they like it or want to or not.
Earth never lies. People do. That's the principle at work.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: The razor's edge... oh yeah, I forgot something else
Posted by: DaBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: tmullins on May 23, 2009 3:24 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are plenty of pictures to see of 350 million year old Appalachian Mountains being decapitated because of greed.
http://www.wisecountyissues.com/?p=138
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Jeanne on May 23, 2009 7:13 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: outlook on May 24, 2009 10:13 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Scarabus on May 26, 2009 6:27 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not the environment that's being framed. It's the perception of the environmental discourse. The distinction matters.
The way to help non-specialists (like me) understand framing is to compare it to analogy or extended metaphor.
Frame: Time is money. "I'm investing time." "I losing time." "I'm wasting time." "I'm gaining time." "I'm spending time wisely/foolisly." Etc.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: hughjones on May 26, 2009 7:10 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: greenknight on May 27, 2009 3:25 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The right wing has managed to stall action on global warming for decades by successfully framing the issue to their advantage - not what I'd call "ineffective". Of course, they weren't interested in lasting social change; they were just trying to keep the profits rolling in for as long as possible. The need for environmentalists to counteract that by changing the frames seems obvious, glad to see the idea finally getting traction.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Honky the Nihilist VI on May 20, 2009 12:21 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Only in the past 200 years have humans numbered over 1 billion.
Posted by: ProfBob
» RE: Only in the past 200 years have humans numbered over 1 billion.
Posted by: richholland
» What are you on about?
Posted by: truthlover
» RE: What are you on about?
Posted by: richholland
» RE: "We need more than uninformed opinions if we are going to save the planet for the human race."
Posted by: Quist
» I keep hearing that, but it's not really true
Posted by: truthlover
» The frames we need to change are deeply rooted and culturally cherished
Posted by: pelican beak
» The frames we need to change are deeply rooted and culturally cherished, continued
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: Only in the past 200 years have humans numbered over 1 billion.
Posted by: garblesnatchy
» May I ask...
Posted by: truthlover
» RE: Only in the past 200 years have humans numbered over 1 billion.
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Moz Volta on May 20, 2009 1:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What the Democrats have to do is stop listening to Republicans. It has never been a good idea. It's like listening to a five year old and taking his advice seriously. Especially on a subject in which they turn to the bible, or just plain BS, for answers.
One of the scariest things I've ever heard in my life was from a colleague of mine. I asked if she cared for the environment. Her answer: no, because Jesus is coming back soon anyway, so what's the point? What's truly scary: there are millions of churchies who think the same and act (and vote) accordingly.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: It is not just politics or religion...it is ECONOMICS.
Posted by: Quist
» Yes, the economy is the problem.
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» Turning to the bible
Posted by: truthlover
Comments are closed-
Posted by: tony_opmoc on May 20, 2009 2:00 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Their success has been phenomenal
Most people now believe that man made CO2 is responsible for starting an irreversible process that will lead to runaway Global Warming resulting in total environmental destruction making the Earth uninhabitable.
The Propaganda is Everywhere - daily in the media on TV, in the newspapers, on the internet and even in school text books.
The proposed solution is to attempt to massively reduce CO2 emmissions.
You guys have done a brilliant job.
Unfortunately the message you are sending is unscientific garbage.
The issues of CO2, Climate Change, Energy, Pollution, Environmental Destruction, Resource Extraction - whilst related are SEPERATE.
The proposed solution will solve nothing except the overpopulation of the Planet by Human Beings. It will kill Billions in a World turned into Hell - as a direct result of your policies.
Your cure is far worse than the disease.
You are trying to fix the wrong problem.
CO2 is not a pollutant - and increased levels will be beneficial for all life on this planet.
But the architects of the policy are trying to kill life on this planet, because they are convinced that is the only way to save it.
You see the mess that the World is in, as a result of having lunatics in Control of Government and Large Corporate Companies who's only interest is Profit, Greed and Power
Well Your solutions will kill not just solve those problems - they will reduce the population to under 1 Billion and turn us back into the dark ages.
There are far better solutions - but all you lunatics want is an effing Carbon Tradng Scheme
You are all effin mad.
(Great Communicators though)
Tony
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: The Environmental Movement Has Been Incredibly Successful At Spreading Propaganda
Posted by: richholland
» RE: The Environmental Movement Has Been Incredibly Successful At Spreading Propaganda
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» 2 + 2 = 4. Everyone believes it. Mathematicians' propaganda has succeeded!
Posted by: truthlover
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ellie on May 20, 2009 5:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
earth is getting weary of the biting and itching and illness from human activity trying like crazy to kill her...
how's that for a new frame???
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: the end result is...
Posted by: zeq2m9
» Gaia loves you, ellie.
Posted by: grammasanity
» RE: the end result is... bonus awarded!
Posted by: DaBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maxpayne on May 20, 2009 6:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: leafsong1 on May 20, 2009 6:58 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PaulK on May 20, 2009 7:16 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The humans accepted global thermonuclear war as a steady-state balance. Death, anyone?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: The humans accepted massive cancer deaths
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» USA still has 20,000 rubble-bouncers left over
Posted by: PaulK
» DEATH IS!
Posted by: grammasanity
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Jaffe on May 20, 2009 11:25 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Which means, in effect, that the technological universe is at least equivalent to what used to be called nature. It means that biospheres and cyborgian animals are equivalent to actual wilderness and "real" animals.
And which means finally that silicon based "realities" out-trump carbon-based?
How then does one reason with these 21st century young people who wear their "high" technology next to their heart, even as suicide bombers carry their explosives strapped to their chest?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: What about virtuality?
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: What about virtuality?
Posted by: Jaffe
» RE: What about virtuality?
Posted by: grammasanity
» RE: What about virtuality?
Posted by: Jaffe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: aivakhiv on May 20, 2009 2:29 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Resonating minds and life itself
Posted by: grammasanity
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PaulK on May 20, 2009 2:55 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans are parochial. Our great great grandfathers saw the rest of the world as non-democratic savages, and we were the world's Illuminati, a light unto the nations. Since then, a hundred foreign nations have gone at least ostensibly democratic, many have better health care than the U.S., and they've been turning out a few million engineers.
One thing that Americans lack is an understanding that we, the people, need to cooperate with people in other nations on solutions. We need a comprehensive solution that bans war, a huge CO2 source, that treats common people in all nations with considerable respect for their basic rights, so that they don't have to burn down their own forests for fuel, and that rewards international innovation, not just each country's innovators within that country's own borders only, although that's a start.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Can't we put up a wall to keep the foreign CO2 out?
Posted by: Jaffe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: obmit83 on May 20, 2009 3:06 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.projectearth.com/
http://tiny.cc/JMJ8M
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: grammasanity on May 20, 2009 4:35 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DaBear on May 20, 2009 4:58 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Principled conservatives have a lot less resistance to the idea of global warming (even human caused) and climate change. I've found many principled cons are actually allies on many levels. Because if I frame things in terms of principles, common ground suddenly appears and action can be had.
But Ideologue conservatives are hell. It's like arguing with a four year old who swears one minute the sky is really under the ground and the next minute the sky is just your parental plot to take their stuffed animal away (that the stuffed animal is covered in shit doesn't seem to factor into their minds).
David Korten talks about this in his book The Great Turning and explains them in terms of the five levels of consciousness, which in themselves are frames (although I'm sure George would find a way to say no to that, being kinda wonky himself). Conservative ideologues tend to be stuck in Imperial Consciousness: where the world is parsed into "power seekers [who] live in [a reality defined as] My World, play up to the powerful, and exploit the oppressed."
Principled cons tend to be in the next higher level of consciousness: Socialized Consciousness where "Good Citizens live in a Small World, play by the rules of their identity group and expect a fair reward." These guys are easier to "swing" with us progressives, who tend to be in either Cultural Consciousness or Spiritual Consciousness levels of reality.
The common frame is principles-based. And principled cons understand that a progressive using such a frame is neither "cruising them to swing" against their interest nor selling them a line. The frame talks.
But with an ideologue, it's futile. You cannot partner an adult with a 4 year old child. It just doesn't work. We need to excise the 4 year olds from gubamint and make them grow up so society no longer suffers their tantrums.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DaBear on May 20, 2009 5:09 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Indeed. It's also the wrong paradigm for thinking about solving or coping with global warming/climate change.
When one comes up against the liberal (or even progressive) ideologue, who comprise most of the doom and gloom crowd, one finds a group absolutely insistant that NO alternative energy can EXACTLY match cheap oil in EXACTLY the same ways therefore we shouldn't waste time and money on ANY solution because it won't make the world the same as it was fifty years ago (pre-peak-oil).
That's the importance of frames in discourse. [I loved how Lakoff got down on "discourses" which is really his failure to comprehend how academia and anthropology (who originated the "discursive" terminology) and sociology (who is slowly catching on to twenty-year old knowledge bases) work in particular. Sometimes George can be a real chump.]
Frames are the razor for cutting the discursive fat and cleaning up the collective conversation. Framing properly allows Lakoff to cut out that vital lesson that "Cost-benefit analysis is just the wrong paradigm for thinking about global warming." Applied to solutions/adaptations to global warming, it is imperative we don't allow CBA to be the paradigm or frame there as well.
Reality is dealing with a systemic problem has to occur on a systemic level while local adaptations will vary necessarily. A one-size fits all solution won't and cannot work. In one bioregion ethanol, biodiesel, algae, solar PV, wind, etc. will be merely one small part of a broadly devised and conceptually varied response, while systemically, continental organizations (gubamints, NGOs, etc) will have to dismantle the status quo whether they like it or want to or not.
Earth never lies. People do. That's the principle at work.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: The razor's edge... oh yeah, I forgot something else
Posted by: DaBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: tmullins on May 23, 2009 3:24 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are plenty of pictures to see of 350 million year old Appalachian Mountains being decapitated because of greed.
http://www.wisecountyissues.com/?p=138
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Jeanne on May 23, 2009 7:13 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: outlook on May 24, 2009 10:13 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Scarabus on May 26, 2009 6:27 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not the environment that's being framed. It's the perception of the environmental discourse. The distinction matters.
The way to help non-specialists (like me) understand framing is to compare it to analogy or extended metaphor.
Frame: Time is money. "I'm investing time." "I losing time." "I'm wasting time." "I'm gaining time." "I'm spending time wisely/foolisly." Etc.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: hughjones on May 26, 2009 7:10 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: greenknight on May 27, 2009 3:25 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The right wing has managed to stall action on global warming for decades by successfully framing the issue to their advantage - not what I'd call "ineffective". Of course, they weren't interested in lasting social change; they were just trying to keep the profits rolling in for as long as possible. The need for environmentalists to counteract that by changing the frames seems obvious, glad to see the idea finally getting traction.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Trial Begins for Activist Who Fought to Protect Federal Lands from Drilling -- Join the Protest
California Carbon Trading Allows Timber Companies to Sell CO2 Credits for Their Worst Logging Practices
How to Answer the Dumb Things Climate Deniers Say




