COMMENTS: 130
Living the Good Life on $5,000 a Year
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Today's global financial cloud got you feeling gray? Vermonter Jim Merkel sees a silver lining.
Back in 1989, the Long Island native was a weapons engineer who helped design a cutting-edge computer that could transmit military secrets, survive a nuclear blast and, a decade before the dawn of the BlackBerry, fit in the palm of his hand. Sitting at a hotel bar in Stockholm, Sweden, he was drinking in his accomplishment when a bulletin flashed on television.
An oil tanker had hit a reef half a world away in Alaska, spilling 11 million gallons of crude oil, contaminating 1,300 miles of coastline and killing more than 250,000 seabirds, otters, seals, bald eagles and whales. Video showed the culprit to be the Exxon Valdez. But peering into a mirror behind the bar, Merkel saw only himself.
He drove. He flew. He consumed goods produced with or propelled by fossil fuels.
"Of course, the entire industrialized world stood indicted beside me," he recalls. "Our 'need' for ever-more mobility, ever-more progress, ever-more growth had led us straight to this disaster. But in that moment, all I knew was that I, personally, needed to step forward and own up to the damage."
Returning home to the states, Merkel decided to simplify. He not only cleared away stuff (enough for 13 yard sales) but also tapped his engineering degree from New York's Stony Brook University to calculate the economic and environmental savings. By doing so, he figured out how to live comfortably -- and income-tax-free -- on $5,000 a year.
To share his findings, Merkel penned a 2003 book, "Radical Simplicity: Small Footprints on a Finite Earth." That begat his Web site, www.radicalsimplicity.org. And those begat his continuing string of more than 1,000 speeches, workshops and classes, including this fall's "Moving Toward Sustainability" course at the Wilder campus of Community College of Vermont.
Most people monitoring the current fiscal crisis are fixated on what they could lose. Merkel is focused on what everyone could gain.
"This belt-tightening is good for us," he says. "We're swimming in a society that's super consumptive. Right now is such a beautiful opportunity for us to become sustainable."
He's ready to show people how.
Oil and water
Growing up, Merkel was the sixth of nine children of a politically conservative, meat-and-potatoes trucker. Now 50, he lives by himself in a 14-by-16-foot cabin on a dirt road in Norwich, where he grows much of his mostly organic vegan diet.
Merkel didn't make that leap in a day. Instead, he started with small steps.
Settling in California after the 1989 oil spill, he began by biking to work. Cutting his fuel consumption, he then joined the Sierra Club and gave money to other environmental nonprofits. But his biggest move came after he read an Amnesty International report about human-rights abuses in countries where he was marketing his military computer.
"There I was," Merkel recalls in his book, "a jet-set military salesman who voted for Reagan by day, and a bleeding-heart pacifist, eco-veggie-head-hooligan by night."
His two selves felt as separate as oil and water. One, seeking frugality and freedom, asked, "How much do I need?" The other, seeking long-term financial security, asked, "How much can I get?"
Merkel decided not only to quit the business of war but also to stop paying federal tax dollars that could fund government weapons. To do so, he aimed to live on an annual income less than the U.S. taxable level of $5,000.
For most Americans, that figure seems miniscule. But back when Merkel made his decision, it topped the worldwide average income of $4,500. (Today that sum has risen to almost $8,000, according to the United Nations. Even so, 3.6 billion people, or 60 percent of humanity, live on less than $520 a year.)
Seeking ways to cut costs, Merkel turned to the best-selling book "Your Money or Your Life: Transforming Your Relationship with Money and Achieving Financial Independence" by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin. It asks readers to add up their cash assets, estimate the value of their possessions and then keep track of every penny they spend to see whether their purchases equate with their personal ideals.
"I knew how to run numbers on big business deals," Merkel says. "I started to run the numbers on my life."
'I had a lot of toys'
Two decades ago, Merkel was living in a four-bedroom house spilling with stuff. To simplify, he sold almost everything. Out went his motorcycle, his pickup truck, his antique car, his speedboat.
"I had a lot of toys. And other things -- you need a leather jacket to ride the motorcycle. And tools -- when I felt empty, I would buy more tools."
Merkel cleared enough space to rent out three spare rooms, helping him cut his monthly bills from more than $1,000 to about $200. Four years later, he sold the house, banked the money and toured North America, Europe and Asia -- he has traveled more than 17,000 miles by bike -- to study how different communities and cultures are working toward economic and environmental sustainability.
In 1990, for example, Merkel visited Arizona to help distribute humanitarian aid to 300 Navajo families. He listened as an elder woman told how the government wanted to relocate her tribe so it could mine for an estimated $100 billion in coal.
"What can I do to help?" he asked.
"Go back to your people and tell them to live simply," he recalls her saying. "Then they wouldn't be out here digging up Mother Earth for coal and uranium."
Three years later, Merkel went to Kerala, India, a state of 30 million people who are educated and healthy though they earn 60 times less than the average American income. He saw how citizens harvested coconuts for meat and milk, used husks to fuel fires and wove fronds into hut walls, roofs and twine.
"There are no clear-cuts, no factories, no fossil fuels, no insurance and no marketing," he recalls. "Fuel, food, shelter, fishing nets, ropes -- and they never killed the tree!"
In comparison, Merkel read the book "Our Ecological Footprint: Reducing Human Impact on the Earth" by Mathis Wackernagel and William Rees and discovered that the average American's material consumption, calculated by the amount of land required for harvesting and waste disposal, equals 24 acres.
Can this change? Merkel founded the nonprofit Global Living Project in 1995 and figured out ways to reduce his ecological footprint to as low as 3 acres (below a person from China and above a person from India). He then shared his solutions in "Radical Simplicity," a 288-page book from New Society Publishers now in its third printing.
Merkel considers himself a better mathematician than a writer. But his book has garnered praise (and its foreword) from "Your Money or Your Life" coauthor Vicki Robin. Progressive historian Howard Zinn, for his part, calls it "the most persuasive argument I have yet seen for all of us to radically change the way we live day-to-day."
'It's not a hardship'
So what's Merkel's solution?
"The easiest is simply to take less."
He also suggests "sharing" housing and transportation ("Share with another person and halve your impact; with four people, quarter the impact") and "caring" for what you have, be it properly maintaining household items or supporting communities by producing and purchasing goods locally.
Farm stands and mom-and-pop stores are close, but aren't supermarket prices cheaper?
"What you don't pay over the counter you pay in taxes, dirty air, dead animals, polluted water, clear-cut forests, sweatshops and strip-mined lands," Merkel writes in his book. "Small-scale bioregional producers, although their products might use less energy and materials and create less waste, don't get big tax breaks and bailouts or discounted access to resources because they wield less political influence."
In 2001, Merkel moved to East Corinth to help maintain 27 acres owned by The Good Life Center, curators of former Vermont homesteaders Scott and Helen Nearing's property in Harborside, Maine. Four years later, he became Dartmouth College's first sustainability director and moved to his fixer-upper cabin in Norwich so he could bike seven miles to the New Hampshire campus.
Pedaling aside, Merkel was paid to walk his talk. But the paycheck unexpectedly tripped him up. Earning more money than he had since leaving the military, Merkel almost doubled his annual spending to as much as $10,000. And so after two years on the job, he quit. He's working his way back to living on $5,000, which he reaps from part-time teaching, speeches and investment interest.
Merkel may sound pay-as-you-go old-fashioned, but he plugs into modern conveniences like the Internet.
"I have bills like everyone else. I'm just very conservative with things."
His monthly electric bill, for example, is "$9 and change" because he limits his use of lights and appliances. He fuels his 1992 Honda Civic (averaging 45 miles per gallon) only when he can't bike. He can't control his property taxes, but he can plant an eighth of an acre with summer fruit and salad fixings and winter root-cellar and canning staples including beets, cabbage, carrots, onions, potatoes and squash.
And, if necessary, he's willing to throw in the kitchen sink.
"You might wash dishes with wood ash as I did at Gandhi's ashram in India."
Seems like work? It doesn't have to.
"It's not a hardship -- it's the frame of consciousness I put myself into." One example: "Say you are growing tired of weeding the garden. Many of the common garden weeds are edible and nutritious."
Coffee with that?
Most of Merkel's choices are calculated. Consider whether he should eat meat. He tapped a mathematical formula to determine that, because gardening consumes less land and resources than raising animals, a soybean-based tofu burger impacts the environment four times less than a chicken burger and 14 times less than a beef burger.
Merkel has enjoyed boiling maple sap into sugar. Then he discovered he had to burn nearly three cords of wood to make 16 gallons of syrup, "so I got a beehive."
Sending an e-mail requires a few seconds of electricity, while mailing a letter consumes a tree and truck fuel. But when the engineer weighed all the metal and plastic in his computer, he discovered an electronic message is three times as ecologically damaging as a letter.
That said, simplicity doesn't have to be complicated. Merkel has a shortlist of synonyms for "Earth-efficient": simple, safe, local, low cost, readily available, recycled. He has followed them for almost two decades, even as most Americans sought shelter in mortgages and credit cards.
Then the world's economy tanked this fall on a reef of bad debt.
"Every year this gets more pertinent," he says, "especially with this current economic adjustment."
Virginia's Longwood University has begun to assign Merkel's book annually to its more than 1,000 incoming freshmen. The author, speaking there recently, brought his own coffee mug to save a disposable cup. Then a student asked how the man who wrote about the dangers of coffee-plantation deforestation and "all the fuels needed to harvest, process, ship, roast, deliver, grind and brew the beans" could swallow the end product?
"My take is not to micromanage everyone, to say 'good' or 'bad,'" Merkel says.
Instead, he hopes people will think about each individual choice that, in combination with others, best balance what one wants with what one needs.
"For one person, the motivation may be saved money; for another, saved Earth; for another, more free time; for still another, creating conditions for world peace."
And for all, Merkel hopes simplicity will bring the same payoff: peace of mind.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: jparsons on Nov 25, 2008 12:39 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
those of us in the developed world
to think
and act more like this man.
Controlling our population's behavior rather
than its numbers is key.
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» control
Posted by: socialpsych
» RE: control
Posted by: -matti
» The choice to have a child...
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: control
Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: control
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: control
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: control
Posted by: bornxeyed
» That particular tongue...
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: That particular tongue...
Posted by: bornxeyed
» sage advice
Posted by: pelican beak
» Huh? This sort of wilful misinterpretation is why so many Alternet comments are unreadable
Posted by: jparsons
» RE: Huh? This sort of wilful misinterpretation is why so many Alternet comments are unreadable
Posted by: pelican beak
» jparsons, your response to the article was, right-on, too bad the overanalyzers didnt get it.
Posted by: yale
» Numbers
Posted by: kepstein7777
» RE: This is the sort of article I enjoy! Me, too
Posted by: Beck
» RE: This is the sort of article I enjoy! Me, too
Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: This is the sort of article I enjoy! Me, too
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Some Only Live on a Few Dollars a Day!
Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: This is the sort of article I enjoy!
Posted by: anneliese-nyc
» RE: This is the sort of article I enjoy!
Posted by: anneliese-nyc
» Excellent observation!
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: This is the sort of article I enjoy!
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: This is the sort of article I enjoy!
Posted by: anneliese-nyc
» RE: This is the sort of article I enjoy!
Posted by: bornxeyed
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Posted by: Bobsays on Nov 25, 2008 1:54 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem is thinking and habits. Most people are programmed to waste and consume. Caught in an arms race with the neighbours, people feel they need to consume to have worth. It doesn't help when the president-elect also plays by these rules.
Strip it down and take a breather. You will be happier in the end.
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» The problem is structures.
Posted by: -matti
» RE: The problem is structures.
Posted by: Bobsays
» RE: The problem is structures.
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman
» RE: xcellent and true!
Posted by: anneliese-nyc
» RE: xcellent and true, from a writer
Posted by: JGrace
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Posted by: F-Abdolian on Nov 25, 2008 1:57 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can not say I can live the life he lives, but I sure can relate to it. Going from 6 figures salary to a much much lower level, not only enriched my life, but also gave me pleasures I had forgotten I had. Instead of going to a fancy restaurants and spend 100s of dollars, we stay home, cook a fancy meal, have a nice evening with a few friends and enjoy our lives.
I don't think many people have the luxury of what he has, to be able to purchase such a large piece of land and be able to manage everything themselves, but they can all save 10s of thousands every year just to change their every day habits.
Good article, it was a long time ago I really enjoyed reading a full article on Alternet. Very refreshing and joyful.
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» RE: Not so extreme, but we all can...
Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Not so extreme, but we all can...
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: Not so extreme, but we all can...
Posted by: farhada
» RE: Not so extreme, but we all can...
Posted by: bornxeyed
» How to live simply:
Posted by: morticia
» RE: How to live simply:
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: How to live simply:
Posted by: morticia
» RE: How to live simply:
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: How to live simply:
Posted by: morticia
» RE: Not so extreme, but we all can...
Posted by: farhada
» RE: Not so extreme, but we all can...
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Not so extreme, but we all can...
Posted by: farhada
» RE: Not so extreme, but we all can...
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Nov 25, 2008 2:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's difficult for the average person to take it as far as this guy did, but as he seems to say, you can get into the state of mind and cut back more than you think without trading your car for sandals.
Realistically, I think it will be impossible to convince all of the billions of people in the world to get on board with this voluntarily, so these books end up being more about the personal rewards of the lifestyle than helping the planet. Most of the world will end up learning the simple life by necessity.
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» RE: Good life
Posted by: farhada
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Posted by: Suzon on Nov 25, 2008 2:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You soon figure out just how many hours you would have to work to pay for it and realize that you'd rather have the free time.
I can spend my time researching the use of law by corporations instead of doing "busy work" for an employer. You can get hooked on the buzz you get from a pay packet but it's more satisfying to grow food and keep chickens.
As a pedestrian, I have traveled a great deal in Cambridge. People in cars don't get to look in people's windows or hear the blackbird singing. Even though pedestrians are in danger of being hit by cars, I wouldn't go back to driving ever!
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» RE: although some money is necessary for most of us, time is undervalued
Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: only when their curtains are open--like we should all be blind robots?
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: only when their curtains are open--like we should all be blind robots?
Posted by: bornxeyed
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maxpayne on Nov 25, 2008 3:58 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: It's the rampant consumerism and materialism that makes money worthless.
Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: It's the rampant consumerism and materialism that makes money worthless.
Posted by: anneliese-nyc
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ellie on Nov 25, 2008 5:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
right now, I'm typing on a 10 year old toshiba laptop with no paint left on the keys that still rums like a champ while sitting at my circa 1920's hand me down kitchen table, looking at my way-high mileage sewing machine that runs better then the new ones and my beloved, american made ice skates with british blades... sipping fair trade coffee I get from a non profit sustainable web site... this is life, not the accumulation of stuff and worries from debt...
go to the mindset of living off the grid as much as possible... it's liberating figuring out ways to not spend money!!!
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» RE: needs and wants... fantastic article today guys!!!
Posted by: bornxeyed
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Posted by: loxias on Nov 25, 2008 5:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: If This Is What It Takes...
Posted by: anneliese-nyc
» RE: If This Is What It Takes...
Posted by: donl51
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Posted by: MyLeftFoot on Nov 25, 2008 6:12 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if you can't afford that then you can rent one for $60.00
if he sells 25 DVDs he'll be over his self imposed income level of $5,000
why such high prices?
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» RE: DVD for $225.00
Posted by: HoboHomo
» How can someone who makes 5000/yr AFFORD ONE?
Posted by: thistleblower
» RE: How can someone who makes 5000/yr AFFORD ONE?
Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» RE: DVD for $225.00
Posted by: bornxeyed
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pastora on Nov 25, 2008 6:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm one of those wasteful spenders--$9000 a few years back for broken ankle repair, $4000 over the last few years for broken tooth, crown, dental work, etc. (probably should have bartered with my neighbor to try his hand at this--could have lent him pliers) -- and my most wasteful spending, about $30,000 for prostate cancer surgery (this was actually paid for through pre-emptive wasteful spending on health insurance.)
The author also lives in a 14X16 cabin--plenty of room for partner and kids, there--as long as everyone remains standing and tries not to engage in wasteful movement--this cuts down on fossil fuel, as well, merely from the body heat.
So I guess it's time to find ditch the family, find someone who has extra land they'll let someone live on, build a wooden tent (salvaged materials, of course), buy some pliers, and start living!
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» RE: A Few flies in the ointment
Posted by: richholland
» RE: A Few flies in the ointment
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: A Few flies in the ointment
Posted by: morticia
» RE: A Few flies in the ointment
Posted by: anneliese-nyc
» But the author is talking about living in the U.S., where health care is a major expense
Posted by: olderworker
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Posted by: esornew on Nov 25, 2008 6:59 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: ose Newburg
Posted by: anneliese-nyc
» Too bad it takes money to live simply.
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman
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Posted by: HoboHomo on Nov 25, 2008 7:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How this applies to the moderate and low income among us--the vast majority--is beyond me. But what ISN'T beyond me, is this:
He's certainly making a whole slew of moolah off his book! I cold sure use that money to get my teeth fixed, and maybe move outta my crummy SRO into a real apartment. But I guess I don't count, I'm not a wealthy New Englander with connections up the wazoo.
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» RE: How inspiring...
Posted by: glennr
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Posted by: Archie1954 on Nov 25, 2008 8:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: living simply
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: living simply
Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» RE: living simply
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: hrlaser on Nov 25, 2008 8:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
An ad for chocolate candies.. (ironically right above a picture of a guy in shackles who's been held prisoner for six years)..
An ad trying to sell me T-shirts..
An Intel ad..
More ads up and down the page.. buy this.. buy that.. and capped off at the bottom of the page with a banner ad for a Mercedes Benz Holiday Sale!..
How hypocritical can one Web site possibly get?..
"Look at this guy.. he rejected his 'I make stuff to help the military kill people' life, divests himself of his 14 garage sales' worth of stuff, lives off the land, oh, but look! Mercedes is having a holiday sale, so just rush right down to your local dealer and write that six figure check for an S-Class.. (or if you're truly poverty-stricken, a five-figure check for a C-Class..) .. then c'mon back here and slide into your politically correct T-shirt, pop some chocolates in your mouth (or have your maid do it for you..) .. while you finish reading the story of a guy who lives on less money per year than two payments on your shiny new status symbol, (as you occasionally stare our your mansion's windows at it.. gleaming in the driveway next to your other 12 cars).. advertised on the same freakin' page!
Am I the only one who sees some kind of irony with this?..
Whoever's running AlterNet might want to re-think the laughable juxtaposition of running "woe is them we gotta do something about it" stories and "look how well you can live by paring your life down to just the basics" articles, on a page splattered with ads for stuff that nobody needs, and only the rich can afford..
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» It may be irony, but it's not hypocrisy
Posted by: pelican beak
» And just how would you propose...
Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: And just how would you propose...
Posted by: hrlaser
» Internet marketing
Posted by: bornxeyed
» good point
Posted by: WhatNow?
» RE: good point
Posted by: bornxeyed
» There is no contradiction.
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman
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Posted by: bttl on Nov 25, 2008 9:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Someone earning 5K a year isn't going to make the money they require to buy land, build a house, pay property taxes(and they are pricey here in VT btw), purchase, maintain and insure any sort of car- necessary if one is living anywhere but in the city as we only have mass transit in the most heavily populated areas.
As well there is healthcare- no way to afford insurance on that let alone pay out of pocket- dental care? Forget about it? Old age? Well I'd assume Jim's got some dough stashed away as a result of his former employment as well as Soc. Security earnings, but someone earning only 5K otherwise? Forget it....
So yeah, sounds great and green but is totally misleading. Let's publish articles that are realistic and are something the average person can achieve without having to have accumulated a large nest-egg. I'd like to see Jim carry this out for the next few decades and then we'll see.....
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Posted by: pdxjoe on Nov 25, 2008 9:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: DaBear on Nov 25, 2008 10:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It sounds so easy... unless you have a mate, kids, and you don't have a defense contractor income, pension and savings (aka "capital") with which to pay for that "reduction"...
nice idea. if you can afford it.
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Posted by: Koondog on Nov 25, 2008 10:09 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: How about a barter economy?
Posted by: bornxeyed
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Nov 25, 2008 10:33 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But I do believe that we can all do more to reduce our impact and consumptive compulsions.
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Posted by: sharonsylvie on Nov 25, 2008 10:36 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: great but not always workable
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: great but not always workable
Posted by: gar1948
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Posted by: drfun on Nov 25, 2008 10:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was still making around $10,000 per year, but my taxes I owed were negligible. I just didn't want to contribute to the MIC economy. The one thing I can't give up are a trip in a plane to places I want to see before I die.
In 2003 the writing was on the wall I could no longer afford to reside in the USA and am now ESL'n in China, where most of my possessions are 2nd hand, trying to outline to my students their ideas of a "Western Lifestyle" are not attainable with their meager means and the world just doesn't have the resources to sustain 1.6 billion and growing desire to emulate it.
I'm consuming far less than my western counterparts, but the plane ride is still my biggest contributor to the worlds carbon footprint.
The drawback is that the women I have been with think it's novel for awhile, then it changes to you being a unmotivated, non secure risk that wants to be isolated from society.
So, until I find a woman who feels the same, I'm forced to spend a tad more to "enjoy" life with female companionship, but I'm still far below what a "western" minimum wage for 2 would be consuming.
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» RE: Stanimal
Posted by: bornxeyed
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Posted by: phatkhat on Nov 25, 2008 10:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hum. I live in a rural area in Arkansas, and we have an electric "co-op" as the only available source of power. We pay a $14/month "availability" fee just for having a meter, whether we use any power or not! Then there are huge surcharges to pay for the co-op's debt, fuel surcharges for production, etc. We live in a small house, try to conserve, etc., but our average electric bill is around $250. (If we used gas, it would cost even more.) And I am too old to cut wood, sorry.
Oh. And that "member-owned" co-op will shut your power off without blinking if you are having trouble paying up.
I too, am amazed at all the simple living articles out there by people who had huge incomes and investments, and then simplified, using their assets to do it. Nope, for average people, that "simple" life is out of reach.
We are lucky, we got a legal settlement that paid our place off. (Then a tornado removed our newly paid for house.) At least we don't have a mortgage payment. But all the other expenses are still there, and there is NO way we could live on $5K a year, or probably even $10K.
I DO encourage living as simply as you can, and considering your choices. Make wise choices, and learn to want what you need, instead of "needing" what you "want".
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» RE: I'm truly curious about these low electric bills
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: I'm truly curious about these low electric bills
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: I'm truly curious about these low electric bills
Posted by: pelican beak
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Nov 25, 2008 11:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Or hit your foot with an ax while chopping wood, and you develop massive blood poisoning? (This actually happened to an uncle of mine when he was twenty back in 1940. In those pre-penicillin days there wasn't much they could do and he died).
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» It's nice that he can do this..but.....
Posted by: donl51
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Posted by: redceres on Nov 25, 2008 11:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I teach. Where I teach, I'm surrounded by Boomers who have been well-to-do for their entire lives. They grew up in post-war families with money, they had the best of social programs to help them get through school (if they needed them--tuition was dirt cheap then), and they had the best public seed policies to help them start their businesses, those who were more entrepreneurial. Those who have always been in academe were ushered there by their well connected families.
This group of folks LOVES to talk about how they shop at the pricey whole foods co-op--which I can't afford. They love to talk about the hippie-chicness of their ever-so-green neighborhoods--in which everyone owns a ginormous-but-earth-friendly home, has brand new fuel-efficint vehicles, and gets to go on ever-so-hip trips abroad that I have never once been able to swing.
They've all had major family handouts, and they mostly have spouses who work in some very me-centered industries in order to support this lifestyle.
I am surrounded by people who are always assuming that I have had some sort of cushy deal because THEY had one. They absolutely refuse to process the fact that not one single GenX employee here owns his/her own home (with the exception of a very public administrative boy toy). We are all in massive student loan debt, none of us had family handouts to get where we are, and none of us will see any relief from the debt that we got into so that we could be public servants. Now, the wages for those doing our job have shrunk, and most of us can't even pay our basic bills off our salaries. I work two side jobs just to pay for living expenses and various insurances. No--NO--extras of any kind.
I have always lived on the edge of the financial abyss. I cannot give up the desire to one day be able to live in a place where I can call the shots in at least my own immediate environment. I cannot decide that it's evil to take an airplane overseas before I've even gotten the chance to go.
It's very easy to decide that things or boring or evil after you've had the opportunity to belly up to the buffet. Some of us have been working just to be allowed in the front door.
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» China and India
Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: China and India
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman
» RE: Tiresome.
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: Tiresome.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Agreed!
Posted by: zooeyhall
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Posted by: lindat on Nov 25, 2008 12:15 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: So what does he do for health care?
Posted by: morticia
» RE: So what does he do for health care?
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: So what does he do for health care?
Posted by: morticia
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Posted by: richholland on Nov 25, 2008 6:30 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I lived after my divorce one winter in a small fisherboat and due to legal problems had no income for 5 monthes. This means
- inspection from the taxoffice
- obliged to visit a social worker weekly
because in Holland you need a
-postadress
-taxadress
-habitat adress.
but the worst thing is the people you meet; drunks, asos and sickos.
te german expression; Predig wasser trinken und saufe Wein.
Tell to drink water and drink wine.
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» RE: Health care is for everyone
Posted by: F-Abdolian
» RE: Health care is for everyone
Posted by: Squarehead
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Posted by: nvannes on Nov 25, 2008 8:28 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: gsmiley on Nov 25, 2008 9:19 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you look at history the world was 'solar powered' until the industrial revolution with only a fraction of the yearly solar input convertible to human needs, the rest maintained the biosphere. And there were too many people then or they wouldn't have worked so hard breaking so many heads. This anomalous surge of well- being thanks to fossil fuels will not last and then what - 10 times the number of people who lived hand to mouth three centuries ago. And then 'green' will not be good enough. There isn't enough copper and rare earth metals to convert to Priuses, and there isn't enough topsoil to convert rangeland to soybean production. I note that topsoil loss is never mentioned in the vegan equation.
Human numbers are an issue NOW and I hope the world stays nice enough and wealthy enough to confine population control to the time of conception.
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» RE: Possum living
Posted by: gar1948
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Posted by: gellero1 on Nov 25, 2008 11:03 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Launch the satillite for your communication, mine the metal for your axe, man the foundry that makes it.
People like this are mooches and parasites....dependent on those who produce for their existence.
Not that this isn't an admirable goal........but don't deny the reality. This guy ain't doing neurosurgery.
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» RE: Sure..live the life of a nobody.
Posted by: F-Abdolian
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Posted by: donl51 on Nov 26, 2008 1:52 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Pissed Off Woman on Nov 27, 2008 12:16 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: gar1948 on Nov 27, 2008 4:12 PM
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Posted by: joeocho88 on Nov 30, 2008 11:03 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WE NEED MORE JOBS FOR EVERYBODY!
Most of those people that this Econazi idolizes tend to die young because of their bad water and lack of competent medical care.
Giving it all up and living like Chinese peasants or homeless Indian people in teeming streets full of disease won't get the job done here.
WE NEED TO GET RID OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER KOOKS AND TRY TO GET PEOPLE TO HAVE FEWER CHILDREN AND TO USE ONLY THE THINGS THAT THEY REALLY NEED TO HAVE.
That will stop a lot of this nonsense!
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Posted by: gar1948 on Nov 30, 2008 1:15 PM
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Posted by: sirwilliam on Nov 30, 2008 6:14 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Be nice if this guy came back to Long Island and teach or actually he may learn from the many homeless who are living in the woods....a couple buses come to ONE of the many sites in really cold weather; in Mattituck to pick them up to get a hot meal, and protection from the elements for a short time. Did you all hear that? Busloads of homeless.....and I bet they have a hard time living on $100.00 a week.
I would like to hear more from that guy who makes his own electricity, raises all his food etc. He is the one whose book I would buy.
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Posted by: jparsons on Nov 25, 2008 12:39 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
those of us in the developed world
to think
and act more like this man.
Controlling our population's behavior rather
than its numbers is key.
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» control
Posted by: socialpsych
» RE: control
Posted by: -matti
» The choice to have a child...
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: control
Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: control
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: control
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: control
Posted by: bornxeyed
» That particular tongue...
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: That particular tongue...
Posted by: bornxeyed
» sage advice
Posted by: pelican beak
» Huh? This sort of wilful misinterpretation is why so many Alternet comments are unreadable
Posted by: jparsons
» RE: Huh? This sort of wilful misinterpretation is why so many Alternet comments are unreadable
Posted by: pelican beak
» jparsons, your response to the article was, right-on, too bad the overanalyzers didnt get it.
Posted by: yale
» Numbers
Posted by: kepstein7777
» RE: This is the sort of article I enjoy! Me, too
Posted by: Beck
» RE: This is the sort of article I enjoy! Me, too
Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: This is the sort of article I enjoy! Me, too
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Some Only Live on a Few Dollars a Day!
Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: This is the sort of article I enjoy!
Posted by: anneliese-nyc
» RE: This is the sort of article I enjoy!
Posted by: anneliese-nyc
» Excellent observation!
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: This is the sort of article I enjoy!
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: This is the sort of article I enjoy!
Posted by: anneliese-nyc
» RE: This is the sort of article I enjoy!
Posted by: bornxeyed
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Posted by: Bobsays on Nov 25, 2008 1:54 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem is thinking and habits. Most people are programmed to waste and consume. Caught in an arms race with the neighbours, people feel they need to consume to have worth. It doesn't help when the president-elect also plays by these rules.
Strip it down and take a breather. You will be happier in the end.
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» The problem is structures.
Posted by: -matti
» RE: The problem is structures.
Posted by: Bobsays
» RE: The problem is structures.
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman
» RE: xcellent and true!
Posted by: anneliese-nyc
» RE: xcellent and true, from a writer
Posted by: JGrace
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Posted by: F-Abdolian on Nov 25, 2008 1:57 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can not say I can live the life he lives, but I sure can relate to it. Going from 6 figures salary to a much much lower level, not only enriched my life, but also gave me pleasures I had forgotten I had. Instead of going to a fancy restaurants and spend 100s of dollars, we stay home, cook a fancy meal, have a nice evening with a few friends and enjoy our lives.
I don't think many people have the luxury of what he has, to be able to purchase such a large piece of land and be able to manage everything themselves, but they can all save 10s of thousands every year just to change their every day habits.
Good article, it was a long time ago I really enjoyed reading a full article on Alternet. Very refreshing and joyful.
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» RE: Not so extreme, but we all can...
Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Not so extreme, but we all can...
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: Not so extreme, but we all can...
Posted by: farhada
» RE: Not so extreme, but we all can...
Posted by: bornxeyed
» How to live simply:
Posted by: morticia
» RE: How to live simply:
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: How to live simply:
Posted by: morticia
» RE: How to live simply:
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: How to live simply:
Posted by: morticia
» RE: Not so extreme, but we all can...
Posted by: farhada
» RE: Not so extreme, but we all can...
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Not so extreme, but we all can...
Posted by: farhada
» RE: Not so extreme, but we all can...
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Nov 25, 2008 2:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's difficult for the average person to take it as far as this guy did, but as he seems to say, you can get into the state of mind and cut back more than you think without trading your car for sandals.
Realistically, I think it will be impossible to convince all of the billions of people in the world to get on board with this voluntarily, so these books end up being more about the personal rewards of the lifestyle than helping the planet. Most of the world will end up learning the simple life by necessity.
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» RE: Good life
Posted by: farhada
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Posted by: Suzon on Nov 25, 2008 2:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You soon figure out just how many hours you would have to work to pay for it and realize that you'd rather have the free time.
I can spend my time researching the use of law by corporations instead of doing "busy work" for an employer. You can get hooked on the buzz you get from a pay packet but it's more satisfying to grow food and keep chickens.
As a pedestrian, I have traveled a great deal in Cambridge. People in cars don't get to look in people's windows or hear the blackbird singing. Even though pedestrians are in danger of being hit by cars, I wouldn't go back to driving ever!
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» RE: although some money is necessary for most of us, time is undervalued
Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: only when their curtains are open--like we should all be blind robots?
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: only when their curtains are open--like we should all be blind robots?
Posted by: bornxeyed
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Posted by: maxpayne on Nov 25, 2008 3:58 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: It's the rampant consumerism and materialism that makes money worthless.
Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: It's the rampant consumerism and materialism that makes money worthless.
Posted by: anneliese-nyc
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Posted by: ellie on Nov 25, 2008 5:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
right now, I'm typing on a 10 year old toshiba laptop with no paint left on the keys that still rums like a champ while sitting at my circa 1920's hand me down kitchen table, looking at my way-high mileage sewing machine that runs better then the new ones and my beloved, american made ice skates with british blades... sipping fair trade coffee I get from a non profit sustainable web site... this is life, not the accumulation of stuff and worries from debt...
go to the mindset of living off the grid as much as possible... it's liberating figuring out ways to not spend money!!!
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» RE: needs and wants... fantastic article today guys!!!
Posted by: bornxeyed
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Posted by: loxias on Nov 25, 2008 5:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: If This Is What It Takes...
Posted by: anneliese-nyc
» RE: If This Is What It Takes...
Posted by: donl51
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Posted by: MyLeftFoot on Nov 25, 2008 6:12 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if you can't afford that then you can rent one for $60.00
if he sells 25 DVDs he'll be over his self imposed income level of $5,000
why such high prices?
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» RE: DVD for $225.00
Posted by: HoboHomo
» How can someone who makes 5000/yr AFFORD ONE?
Posted by: thistleblower
» RE: How can someone who makes 5000/yr AFFORD ONE?
Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» RE: DVD for $225.00
Posted by: bornxeyed
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Posted by: pastora on Nov 25, 2008 6:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm one of those wasteful spenders--$9000 a few years back for broken ankle repair, $4000 over the last few years for broken tooth, crown, dental work, etc. (probably should have bartered with my neighbor to try his hand at this--could have lent him pliers) -- and my most wasteful spending, about $30,000 for prostate cancer surgery (this was actually paid for through pre-emptive wasteful spending on health insurance.)
The author also lives in a 14X16 cabin--plenty of room for partner and kids, there--as long as everyone remains standing and tries not to engage in wasteful movement--this cuts down on fossil fuel, as well, merely from the body heat.
So I guess it's time to find ditch the family, find someone who has extra land they'll let someone live on, build a wooden tent (salvaged materials, of course), buy some pliers, and start living!
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» RE: A Few flies in the ointment
Posted by: richholland
» RE: A Few flies in the ointment
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: A Few flies in the ointment
Posted by: morticia
» RE: A Few flies in the ointment
Posted by: anneliese-nyc
» But the author is talking about living in the U.S., where health care is a major expense
Posted by: olderworker
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Posted by: esornew on Nov 25, 2008 6:59 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: ose Newburg
Posted by: anneliese-nyc
» Too bad it takes money to live simply.
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman
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Posted by: HoboHomo on Nov 25, 2008 7:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How this applies to the moderate and low income among us--the vast majority--is beyond me. But what ISN'T beyond me, is this:
He's certainly making a whole slew of moolah off his book! I cold sure use that money to get my teeth fixed, and maybe move outta my crummy SRO into a real apartment. But I guess I don't count, I'm not a wealthy New Englander with connections up the wazoo.
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» RE: How inspiring...
Posted by: glennr
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Posted by: Archie1954 on Nov 25, 2008 8:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: living simply
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: living simply
Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» RE: living simply
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: hrlaser on Nov 25, 2008 8:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
An ad for chocolate candies.. (ironically right above a picture of a guy in shackles who's been held prisoner for six years)..
An ad trying to sell me T-shirts..
An Intel ad..
More ads up and down the page.. buy this.. buy that.. and capped off at the bottom of the page with a banner ad for a Mercedes Benz Holiday Sale!..
How hypocritical can one Web site possibly get?..
"Look at this guy.. he rejected his 'I make stuff to help the military kill people' life, divests himself of his 14 garage sales' worth of stuff, lives off the land, oh, but look! Mercedes is having a holiday sale, so just rush right down to your local dealer and write that six figure check for an S-Class.. (or if you're truly poverty-stricken, a five-figure check for a C-Class..) .. then c'mon back here and slide into your politically correct T-shirt, pop some chocolates in your mouth (or have your maid do it for you..) .. while you finish reading the story of a guy who lives on less money per year than two payments on your shiny new status symbol, (as you occasionally stare our your mansion's windows at it.. gleaming in the driveway next to your other 12 cars).. advertised on the same freakin' page!
Am I the only one who sees some kind of irony with this?..
Whoever's running AlterNet might want to re-think the laughable juxtaposition of running "woe is them we gotta do something about it" stories and "look how well you can live by paring your life down to just the basics" articles, on a page splattered with ads for stuff that nobody needs, and only the rich can afford..
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» It may be irony, but it's not hypocrisy
Posted by: pelican beak
» And just how would you propose...
Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: And just how would you propose...
Posted by: hrlaser
» Internet marketing
Posted by: bornxeyed
» good point
Posted by: WhatNow?
» RE: good point
Posted by: bornxeyed
» There is no contradiction.
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bttl on Nov 25, 2008 9:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Someone earning 5K a year isn't going to make the money they require to buy land, build a house, pay property taxes(and they are pricey here in VT btw), purchase, maintain and insure any sort of car- necessary if one is living anywhere but in the city as we only have mass transit in the most heavily populated areas.
As well there is healthcare- no way to afford insurance on that let alone pay out of pocket- dental care? Forget about it? Old age? Well I'd assume Jim's got some dough stashed away as a result of his former employment as well as Soc. Security earnings, but someone earning only 5K otherwise? Forget it....
So yeah, sounds great and green but is totally misleading. Let's publish articles that are realistic and are something the average person can achieve without having to have accumulated a large nest-egg. I'd like to see Jim carry this out for the next few decades and then we'll see.....
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Posted by: pdxjoe on Nov 25, 2008 9:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: DaBear on Nov 25, 2008 10:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It sounds so easy... unless you have a mate, kids, and you don't have a defense contractor income, pension and savings (aka "capital") with which to pay for that "reduction"...
nice idea. if you can afford it.
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Posted by: Koondog on Nov 25, 2008 10:09 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: How about a barter economy?
Posted by: bornxeyed
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Nov 25, 2008 10:33 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But I do believe that we can all do more to reduce our impact and consumptive compulsions.
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Posted by: sharonsylvie on Nov 25, 2008 10:36 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: great but not always workable
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: great but not always workable
Posted by: gar1948
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Posted by: drfun on Nov 25, 2008 10:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was still making around $10,000 per year, but my taxes I owed were negligible. I just didn't want to contribute to the MIC economy. The one thing I can't give up are a trip in a plane to places I want to see before I die.
In 2003 the writing was on the wall I could no longer afford to reside in the USA and am now ESL'n in China, where most of my possessions are 2nd hand, trying to outline to my students their ideas of a "Western Lifestyle" are not attainable with their meager means and the world just doesn't have the resources to sustain 1.6 billion and growing desire to emulate it.
I'm consuming far less than my western counterparts, but the plane ride is still my biggest contributor to the worlds carbon footprint.
The drawback is that the women I have been with think it's novel for awhile, then it changes to you being a unmotivated, non secure risk that wants to be isolated from society.
So, until I find a woman who feels the same, I'm forced to spend a tad more to "enjoy" life with female companionship, but I'm still far below what a "western" minimum wage for 2 would be consuming.
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» RE: Stanimal
Posted by: bornxeyed
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Posted by: phatkhat on Nov 25, 2008 10:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hum. I live in a rural area in Arkansas, and we have an electric "co-op" as the only available source of power. We pay a $14/month "availability" fee just for having a meter, whether we use any power or not! Then there are huge surcharges to pay for the co-op's debt, fuel surcharges for production, etc. We live in a small house, try to conserve, etc., but our average electric bill is around $250. (If we used gas, it would cost even more.) And I am too old to cut wood, sorry.
Oh. And that "member-owned" co-op will shut your power off without blinking if you are having trouble paying up.
I too, am amazed at all the simple living articles out there by people who had huge incomes and investments, and then simplified, using their assets to do it. Nope, for average people, that "simple" life is out of reach.
We are lucky, we got a legal settlement that paid our place off. (Then a tornado removed our newly paid for house.) At least we don't have a mortgage payment. But all the other expenses are still there, and there is NO way we could live on $5K a year, or probably even $10K.
I DO encourage living as simply as you can, and considering your choices. Make wise choices, and learn to want what you need, instead of "needing" what you "want".
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» RE: I'm truly curious about these low electric bills
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: I'm truly curious about these low electric bills
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: I'm truly curious about these low electric bills
Posted by: pelican beak
Comments are closed-
Posted by: zooeyhall on Nov 25, 2008 11:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Or hit your foot with an ax while chopping wood, and you develop massive blood poisoning? (This actually happened to an uncle of mine when he was twenty back in 1940. In those pre-penicillin days there wasn't much they could do and he died).
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» It's nice that he can do this..but.....
Posted by: donl51
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Posted by: redceres on Nov 25, 2008 11:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I teach. Where I teach, I'm surrounded by Boomers who have been well-to-do for their entire lives. They grew up in post-war families with money, they had the best of social programs to help them get through school (if they needed them--tuition was dirt cheap then), and they had the best public seed policies to help them start their businesses, those who were more entrepreneurial. Those who have always been in academe were ushered there by their well connected families.
This group of folks LOVES to talk about how they shop at the pricey whole foods co-op--which I can't afford. They love to talk about the hippie-chicness of their ever-so-green neighborhoods--in which everyone owns a ginormous-but-earth-friendly home, has brand new fuel-efficint vehicles, and gets to go on ever-so-hip trips abroad that I have never once been able to swing.
They've all had major family handouts, and they mostly have spouses who work in some very me-centered industries in order to support this lifestyle.
I am surrounded by people who are always assuming that I have had some sort of cushy deal because THEY had one. They absolutely refuse to process the fact that not one single GenX employee here owns his/her own home (with the exception of a very public administrative boy toy). We are all in massive student loan debt, none of us had family handouts to get where we are, and none of us will see any relief from the debt that we got into so that we could be public servants. Now, the wages for those doing our job have shrunk, and most of us can't even pay our basic bills off our salaries. I work two side jobs just to pay for living expenses and various insurances. No--NO--extras of any kind.
I have always lived on the edge of the financial abyss. I cannot give up the desire to one day be able to live in a place where I can call the shots in at least my own immediate environment. I cannot decide that it's evil to take an airplane overseas before I've even gotten the chance to go.
It's very easy to decide that things or boring or evil after you've had the opportunity to belly up to the buffet. Some of us have been working just to be allowed in the front door.
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» China and India
Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: China and India
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman
» RE: Tiresome.
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: Tiresome.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Agreed!
Posted by: zooeyhall
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Posted by: lindat on Nov 25, 2008 12:15 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: So what does he do for health care?
Posted by: morticia
» RE: So what does he do for health care?
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: So what does he do for health care?
Posted by: morticia
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Posted by: richholland on Nov 25, 2008 6:30 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I lived after my divorce one winter in a small fisherboat and due to legal problems had no income for 5 monthes. This means
- inspection from the taxoffice
- obliged to visit a social worker weekly
because in Holland you need a
-postadress
-taxadress
-habitat adress.
but the worst thing is the people you meet; drunks, asos and sickos.
te german expression; Predig wasser trinken und saufe Wein.
Tell to drink water and drink wine.
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» RE: Health care is for everyone
Posted by: F-Abdolian
» RE: Health care is for everyone
Posted by: Squarehead
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Posted by: nvannes on Nov 25, 2008 8:28 PM
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Posted by: gsmiley on Nov 25, 2008 9:19 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you look at history the world was 'solar powered' until the industrial revolution with only a fraction of the yearly solar input convertible to human needs, the rest maintained the biosphere. And there were too many people then or they wouldn't have worked so hard breaking so many heads. This anomalous surge of well- being thanks to fossil fuels will not last and then what - 10 times the number of people who lived hand to mouth three centuries ago. And then 'green' will not be good enough. There isn't enough copper and rare earth metals to convert to Priuses, and there isn't enough topsoil to convert rangeland to soybean production. I note that topsoil loss is never mentioned in the vegan equation.
Human numbers are an issue NOW and I hope the world stays nice enough and wealthy enough to confine population control to the time of conception.
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» RE: Possum living
Posted by: gar1948
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Posted by: gellero1 on Nov 25, 2008 11:03 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Launch the satillite for your communication, mine the metal for your axe, man the foundry that makes it.
People like this are mooches and parasites....dependent on those who produce for their existence.
Not that this isn't an admirable goal........but don't deny the reality. This guy ain't doing neurosurgery.
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» RE: Sure..live the life of a nobody.
Posted by: F-Abdolian
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Posted by: donl51 on Nov 26, 2008 1:52 PM
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Posted by: Pissed Off Woman on Nov 27, 2008 12:16 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: gar1948 on Nov 27, 2008 4:12 PM
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Posted by: joeocho88 on Nov 30, 2008 11:03 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WE NEED MORE JOBS FOR EVERYBODY!
Most of those people that this Econazi idolizes tend to die young because of their bad water and lack of competent medical care.
Giving it all up and living like Chinese peasants or homeless Indian people in teeming streets full of disease won't get the job done here.
WE NEED TO GET RID OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER KOOKS AND TRY TO GET PEOPLE TO HAVE FEWER CHILDREN AND TO USE ONLY THE THINGS THAT THEY REALLY NEED TO HAVE.
That will stop a lot of this nonsense!
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Posted by: gar1948 on Nov 30, 2008 1:15 PM
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Posted by: sirwilliam on Nov 30, 2008 6:14 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Be nice if this guy came back to Long Island and teach or actually he may learn from the many homeless who are living in the woods....a couple buses come to ONE of the many sites in really cold weather; in Mattituck to pick them up to get a hot meal, and protection from the elements for a short time. Did you all hear that? Busloads of homeless.....and I bet they have a hard time living on $100.00 a week.
I would like to hear more from that guy who makes his own electricity, raises all his food etc. He is the one whose book I would buy.
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