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Environment

Are Human Beings Hard-Wired to Ignore the Threat of Catastrophic Climate Change?

By Lisa Bennett, Greater Good. Posted November 14, 2008.


Climate scientists wonder why people don't do more about global warming. Social scientists have some troubling answers.
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Three years ago, I became obsessed with global warming. Practically overnight, my worries about its potential effects outstripped my worries about so many other national and global issues, even personal ones.

Indeed, as the mother of two young boys, I began to think it a bit crazy that I attended to every bump and scrape on my children's little bodies and budding egos, but largely ignored the threat likely to put sizeable areas of the world, including parts of the coastal city where we live, underwater within their lifetime.

That year, 2005, marked a turning point for many people. After decades of observation, speculation, and analysis, the world's climate scientists had reached a consensus, and increasingly the general public was accepting it. As USA Today reported, "The Debate is Over: Globe is Warming."

The next step, scientists advised, was action. We needed to take significant and urgent steps to cut our dependence on fossil fuels by 25 percent or more, something NASA's top climate scientist, James Hansen, said we had only a decade to do if we were to avoid the great global warming tipping point-that level at which increased temperatures would unleash unprecedented global disasters.

So how are we doing?

Surely, some things have changed. Sales of the Toyota Prius and other hybrids have skyrocketed. Many of us have converted to the new energy-saving compact fluorescent light bulbs. A flood of books are hitting the market offering tips about how to save the Earth. And there is a frenzy of advertising about everything from "eco-friendly" houses to "green" hair salons, showing just how widespread Americans' desire is to do the right thing for the environment.

Yet none of this adds up to the significant and urgent action scientists have called for. The question is why: Why don't more of us respond more seriously to the most serious threat to the planet in human history?

"Many climate scientists find the response to global warming completely baffling," says Elke Weber, a Columbia University psychologist and the chair of the Global Roundtable on Climate Change's Public Attitudes/Ethical Issues Working Group. According to Weber, climate scientists just can't understand why government and the public have been so slow to act on the extraordinary information these scientists have provided.

But now a growing number of social scientists are offering their expertise in behavioral decision making, risk analysis, and evolutionary influences on human behavior to explain our limited responses to global warming. Among the most significant factors they point to: The way we're psychologically wired and socially conditioned to respond to crises makes us ill-suited to react to the abstract and seemingly remote threat posed by global warming. Their insights are also leading to some intriguing recommendations about how to get people to take action-including the potentially dangerous prospect of playing on people's fears.

Our misleading emotions

There are a significant number of researchers now devoted to studying how people decide that something is truly bad for them. They are called "risk-analysis scholars," and they believe there are, in general, two ways we may assess a risk such as global warming. One is through our analytic abilities, by which we examine the scientific evidence and make logical decisions about how to respond. This is the process that was used by climate scientists to reach the strong and clear conclusion that the risks of global warming are momentous and require immediate and significant action.

But most of us do not rely on our analytic abilities to evaluate the risk of global warming-or any risk, for that matter.

Instead, we rely on the second and more common way of perceiving risk: our emotions.

"For most of us, most of the time, risk is not a statistic. Risk is a feeling," says Weber. We are swayed by our feelings, and those feelings-while an essential part of the decision-making process-can be misleading guides, depending on the type of risk involved.

For example, in a recent paper on how emotion shapes risk perception, Weber cites the growing number of parents who choose to forego having their children vaccinated against diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis. To most physicians, this is a highly irrational decision, since vaccinations help prevent serious illnesses and pose very slight risks. So why do parents make such decisions? Because when they learn that roughly one child out of 1,000 will suffer from high fever and one out of 14,000 will suffer seizures as a result of vaccinations, their emotions lead them to imagine that their child will be the one to suffer.

"If I feel scared," says Weber, "that overshadows any amount of pallid statistical information."

And perhaps most importantly, emotions, more than anything else, are what motivate us to act. As decades of behavioral decision research has shown, most people have to feel a risk before they do something about it.

In this way, our limited response to global warming is similar to our limited response to mass murder or genocide, according to Paul Slovic, a professor of psychology at the University of Oregon and the president of Decision Research, a nonprofit that studies human judgment, decision making, and risk.

In a series of research papers, Slovic has explored why reports of genocide so often fail to stir us to action. These reports, he writes, usually stress the thousands or even millions of people who have been killed. In doing so, they speak to our analytic abilities but not our feelings. Slovic has found that people are much more likely to donate money to a cause after reading the story of a single victim than after reading a statistic citing a million victims.

Like genocide, the long-term consequences of global warming are so enormous we can't wrap our heads around them. Scientists predict in 40 years global warming will displace 20 million people from Beijing, 40 million from Shanghai and surrounding areas, and 60 million from Calcutta and Bangladesh. These statistics are daunting, but they're abstract; they don't inspire us to feel for the one individual whose life will be put at risk. As a result, we fail to take appropriate action.

And as with others, so with ourselves: It is emotions, such as fear or worry, that motivate us to protect ourselves from risk. With global warming, this presents an even more challenging situation because, says Weber, our emotions are shaped by two forms of past experience: either direct personal experience or evolutionary experience that still guides human behavior. We feel the hairs stand up on the back of our necks if someone in a dark alley appears dangerous. This happens because, from an evolutionary perspective, deep in our psyches we know what it feels like to have another human being physically threaten us. There's also the chance that we've been threatened or assaulted personally.

But we have no innate experience of global warming that tells us, from personal or evolutionary experience, that when we burn too many fossil fuels, it causes the build-up of greenhouse gases that trap warm air within the Earth's atmosphere, which, in turn, melts ice caps and glaciers, raises ocean levels, and causes hurricanes to intensify, floods to worsen, droughts to increase, lakes and water supplies to disappear, and, as in any such dire and threatening circumstance, famine and warfare to spread. As dramatic as these scenarios are, we can't feel them because we haven't experienced them (yet). Human-driven climate change is simply unprecedented.

"Global warming doesn't make evolutionary sense to us," says Weber. "Our minds haven't adjusted to the much more complex technological risks that are removed in space and time."

Timing is everything

Our lack of past experience with global warming is also exacerbated by the fact that global warming is not a clear and present danger but, rather, something that is projected to reveal its most dramatic consequences decades from now.

"It's a very well established fact about human behavior," says Slovic, "that we discount future negative outcomes a great deal, especially if it means having to postpone some immediate positive benefit, such as the convenience of driving our car." He likens our attitudes toward the future risks of global warming to how teenagers discount the risk of smoking, despite abundant evidence of its risks.

"Young people tend not to be quite clear about whether there will be consequences from their smoking, what they would be, and what it would be like for them," he says. "The future risk is not imaginable, and that tends to make people more complacent."

The fact that global warming appears to represent a hazard of nature also leads people to underestimate the risk. "People don't respect nature and what it can do," says Slovic. "They feel nature is benign, even though it really isn't."

Case-in-point: He contrasts the response to Hurricane Katrina with the response to September 11. "After Katrina, people started to pay more attention to strengthening the levies even though the information was available in advance. There was a short period of time when there was a heightened response, then it dampened."

The response to September 11, in contrast, has been far more significant and long-lasting, even though, he says, "from a physical damage standpoint, 9-11 was relatively smaller." The difference was that Katrina, which many scientists believe was fueled by human-driven global warming, seemed like an act of nature, and that failed to trigger our millennia-old fears of having our homes and lives invaded by a stranger-fears evoked by September 11.

Reality vs. worldview

A third obstacle that limits people's response to global warming-and even their willingness to believe in it-is also one of the most intractable. In a series of recent studies, a group of scholars from Yale and other universities have been studying how cultural values shape our perceptions of risk. Based on the premise that Americans are culturally polarized on a range of societal risks, from global warming to gun control, Paul Slovic, Yale Law School professor Dan Kahan, and others analyzed the results of surveys and experiments that matched the risk perceptions of some 5,000 Americans to the worldviews of those Americans. Their finding: People may simply reject evidence that clashes with their worldview.

"To a certain extent our attitude toward risk and behaviors are conditioned not just by the raw facts of the matter, but by the orientation that we have to the world," says Slovic.

In the case of global warming, researchers found two general worldviews that seemed to have the most significant influence on perception and action. One group consists of egalitarians, or people who prefer a society where wealth, power, and opportunity are broadly distributed. Researchers called the other group the hierarchists, those who prefer a society that is linear in its structure, with leaders on top and followers below.

"What we've seen through this research is that egalitarians are generally more concerned about environmental risks over a range of hazards, including global warming. Hierarchists tend to be less concerned," says Slovic. In fact, he says, when it comes to perceptions of risk, one's worldview is vastly more influential than other individual characteristics, such as race or political ideology.

The researchers also found that when proposed solutions to global warming clash with people's worldviews, those people are more likely to reject evidence of the problem altogether. For example, in one experiment, Kahan and his colleagues gave two groups of people two contrasting newspaper articles about global warming. Both reported the problem in similar terms: temperatures were rising, human behavior was the cause of climate change, and global warming could lead to disastrous environmental and economic consequences if left unaddressed. But the articles then went on to offer different solutions: one called for increased regulation of pollution emissions, while the other called for revitalization of nuclear power.

When people with a hierarchical worldview received the article that called for increased regulation-policies currently associated with a more egalitarian and liberal worldview-they were more likely to reject that global warming was a problem than when they received the article that called for a revitalization of nuclear power.

This research helps explain the attitudes and behaviors of global warming skeptics. Slovic says it also shows how difficult it is to communicate persuasively when people feel their worldview is challenged. "The truly disconcerting thing about this work is that it shows how difficult it is to change people's views and behaviors with factual information," says Slovic.

"People spin the information to keep their worldview intact." They do their best to hold onto their worldviews, says Slovic, because so much of their personal identity and social networks are tied up in maintaining it.

Fearful futures, hopeful actions

With such significant obstacles to spurring action on global warming, what can social scientists recommend about how to inspire the necessary response?

First, communication about global warming needs to reach people's emotions and trigger fear, and that means emphasizing the dramatic consequences to come. "It is only the potentially catastrophic nature of (rapid) climate change (of the kind graphically depicted in the 2004 film The Day After Tomorrow) and the global dimension of adverse effects, which may create hardships for future generations, that have the potential for raising a visceral reaction to the risk," Elke Weber writes in a recent paper on why global warming doesn't scare us yet.

This means making future hardships vivid, imaginable, personalized, and credible, says Slovic. For example, he suggests that people communicating about global warming answer the questions: "How will it change the whole economy and whole quality of life in a particular region? Will the forests die out? Will the summers be so hot and dry that the Earth will be uninhabitable?"

In setting out to evoke fear, however, one must tread judiciously. "If people are being scared without seeing a way out, it makes them dysfunctional and freeze," says Weber. "They will switch channels and watch Britney Spears instead."

And that leads to a second recommendation: People need to be offered a set of actions they can take to combat global warming. "In general, a good guide is: Where does most of our energy get used?" says Susanne C. Moser, co-editor of the 2007 anthology, Creating a Climate for Change. The top three categories of energy-consumption for individuals are transportation, home-energy use, and food consumption. Already, plenty of books and websites offer tips on how to reduce energy use in all these areas. Reports on global warming need to draw on these resources, so that people feel there is something concrete they can do about it.

Finally, beyond the many small energy-saving solutions people can take, combating global warming will require making people more aware of the large-scale lifestyle changes that will really make a difference. "I don't want to have to make a zillion little decisions," says Baruch Fischoff, a professor at Carnegie Mellon University and the former president of the Society for Risk Analysis. "I'd like to see people working out for me some alternative ways of organizing my life where it will really be a sustainable way to live."

Indeed, figuring out these big lifestyles changes, Fischoff suggests, is the practical work that now lies ahead for climate and social scientists.

As for ordinary Americans like myself, I believe that significant collective action on global warming will come from a very personal place-such as love for our kids, who will, after all, be among those most likely to experience its greatest consequences. But perhaps even more significantly, I'm finding hope in knowing that the drive to protect our children is another universal desire for which most of us are, in fact, hard-wired.

Reprinted from Greater Good, Vol. V, Issue 2 (Fall 2008), pp. 40-43. For more information, please visit Greater Good magazine.



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Lisa Bennett is the communications director for the Center for Ecoliteracy, a nonprofit dedicated to education for sustainable living. She is writing a book about parenting in the age of global warming and can be reached at LisaOBennett@gmail.com.

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limiting our population is the biggest world-view clash, and other thoughts
Posted by: pelican beak on Nov 14, 2008 2:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If there were only 1% of today's human population on earth, there would still be 67 million people here. Sixty-seven million people!!! That's no shortage of people. With "only" 67 million, we could all drive 10 mpg cars &etc, oil would last forever, and the global warming problem (as well as water shortages, habitat losses and species extinctions, and many others) would be largely resolved. Arguably, the problems we face only exist because of our numbers.

Telescoped into every conception leading to birth is the equivalent of an entire life's added environmental burden... having children is the most earth-consuming action we ever take. One couple's choice to have 2 children, in itself alone, equals all the rest of that couple's entire lifetime's earth-consuming actions combined. I've never understood how supposedly environmentally-concerned people, who claim to seek to change the status quo, can talk about how they "only" have 2 children. What clearer support for the status quo could there be than that? Particularly with American-lifestyle consumptions...

The author's failure to even broach this topic in the article, even when seeking to find a single, simple large-scale lifestyle change, strikes me as being itself an example of refusing to challenge one's own worldview when the facts clearly lead there.

Many of the biggest enviro-problems we now face (such a global warming) weren't even blips on our radar screens a few decades ago. Expect new enviro-problems we don't now foresee to start coming faster and quicker. Our government's failure to appreciate the threat that 9/11 fulfilled until it was too late, after which we ran around like chickens with our heads cut off and did stupid things, ("Quick! We need to invade Iraq now! No time to think about it! Sign up to patriotically support it now!") seems to be the template for how we will face the future threats. It was repeated with the recent financial collapse, which had our government proclaiming "the fundamentals are strong" right up to the the moment we went over the cliff, after which time we were told there was no time to think, we need to immediately give Paulson $700 billion to do with as he sees fit without a moment's hesitation. Unless we change how we face future threats, I expect enviro-problems coming to a head in sudden crises following the same pattern. People behaving the way this article describes are shock-doctrine enablers.

Psychologists recognize children of younger ages typically don't process future-considerations the same way older kids do ("You can have one cupcake now, or many cupcakes later, if you don't have one now.") It would be easy to conclude it is "human nature" to react this way as adults to future threats we can see on the horizon, but I disagree. That understanding infantilizes us. I believe it is only cultural nature, which we can change if we really want to. Chalking up our reaction to global warming threats as immutable "human nature" is simply a sleazy way to cut potential for human improvement off at the knees. Humans, I believe, can behave much differently than we do now, but we're too lazy, greedy, and self-absorbed to do so... our culture indoctrinates us to be that way, not some immutable fact about our nature. There are other cultures reacting to global warming threats far more functionally than Americans have... it isn't "human nature."

If/when the shit really hits the fan, those who buy into false interpretations about our "human nature" unavoidably leading us to that situation are simply refusing to accept our collective responsibility for our behavior's consequences... the last refuge of spiritual dwarves. We could be so much better, if we quit fabricating lame excuses to keep acting like jerks.

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» The other questions are... Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: The other questions are... Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: WOW - we've come full circle Posted by: pelican beak
The President-elect's two children bode well for the future of the Planet
Posted by: outlook on Nov 14, 2008 3:02 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lets be thankful that the American people did not vote in an old man who will not be around to witness a climate catastrophe. President-elect Obama has a huge vested interest in creating a better world - his two children!

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» How does that bode well? Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: How does that bode well? Posted by: helenahanbasquet
» RE: How does that bode well? Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: How does that bode well? Posted by: helenahanbasquet
Interesting article
Posted by: helenahanbasquet on Nov 14, 2008 4:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but I'm surprised that in the discussion of cultural influences there is no mention of the millions of people on this planet who believe, with no evidence whatsoever, that when they die they will end up someplace better than this. Some, like Ann Coulter, believe their god gave us this planet to rape and plunder, and that's exactly what's been done to it. These people don't give a flying damn about this planet.

Anti-abortionists protest Planned Parenthood on the incorrect grounds that Margaret Sanger was a eugenicist who wanted to eliminate the black race, so they prevent PP from doing valuable work in the 3rd world to help these people control their populations. Like the poster above, I'm convinced that overpopulation is the number one cause of climate change. I'm also convinced that since humans don't have the good sense to get it under control, that nature in its infinite wisdom will take care of that problem in a very dramatic way, and soon. At this point I'm just hoping that anyone who might survive will attempt to form a symbiotic relationship with this planet rather than a parasitical one.

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» RE: Interesting article Posted by: richholland
» Global warming facts Posted by: nigelbest
» RE: Global warming facts Posted by: nigelbest
» RE: Global warming facts Posted by: Shey
well. .
Posted by: zxmzc14 on Nov 14, 2008 4:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a friend once told me that change has to go slow. people in power need to manage how change takes place in the world and culture.
If change threatens their power it needs to be suppressed, or re managed. . So I guess in the meantime we will have to wait. until corporatists and government see it in their interest to stop climate change. It is kinda like waiting for medieval doctors in a Moliere play to recognize that enima and leeching, and blood letting are not helping the sick but making things worse. .Catullus also said their was physician who was so good at his profession everyone called him the mortician- if the decision makers of our society are the medieval doctors of our climate. .we feel helpless.

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» RE: well. . Posted by: inprov73
Four Rules for Environmental Messaging
Posted by: Mimi on Nov 14, 2008 5:00 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are many others saying similar things as environmentalism struggles to face OUR inconvenient truth, that decades of eloquent words and brilliant thinking have not worked.

But how incredibly lucky we are that brain science has discovered all these things about how our brains are configured so that we can now make a concerted, coordinated, and collective shift toward messaging that will work.

The four basic rules, distilled from cognitive psychology, neuroscience, and communication theory along the lines of this article:

1) Human centered, not planet/climate centered.
Get the issue right: not change in the climate (which opens the doors to denial along the lines of "natural cycles"), but human action that is unintentionally destroying human well-being. Making us sick. Poisoning the well.

2) Individual human case.
Neuroscientist and MacArthur genius says the brain needs an issue framed as the individual human case to turn concern into action. Why being motivated by children works.

3) Keep it simple.
NO more complicated mind numbing science, please.

4) MAKE it emotional.
Global warming makes me miserable. An economic system gamed for greed and the mutual destruction of people and planet makes me really, really miserable. The only thing that makes me more miserable would be the failure of us to ignite our "American genius for change," as president-elect Obama puts it, and change the madness we are in.

We need a game changer, people.

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» Lowest Common Denominator? Posted by: MartianBachelor
lots of reasons
Posted by: jon B on Nov 14, 2008 5:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I see the points about the article, but I think it digs too deep into our psych. There are simple reasons people aren't doing much about global warming.

For one, our leadership has mainly played it down, particularly the Bush eight years. If those who are followers aren't given a clear cut warning from the top, then they aren't going to do anything. Followers need orders, where is the demand from the top to change things? What is the top doing themselves to provide an example for followers to follow?

Two, plenty of people simply don't believe in science. There are far too many people in the US that base their science on the Bible. Since the Bible doesn't agree with much of science, that group has no world view to even accept global warming.

Three, there are so many people in the US and other well off nations that are willing to do small things, but are not willing to change radically. In the US for instance the far reaches of suburban existence is not good for global warming and that way of life needs to end, soon. But giving up the comfy subs isn't something people are willing to do.

Four, I for one believe in global warming, but feel strongly that there isn't anything we can do, that we've either reached the tipping point or not enough action could possibly be accomplished before the tipping point is reached. I have no reason as of yet to imagine the US (which needs to take the lead) will massively change its' ways in a short period of time.

Fifth, so many of the solutions or changes to be made aren't really answers. For instance, we've been told that ethanol was a solution, but ethanol production (corn, sugar) steals land that should be used for growing food. As well, the CO2 emissions from ethanol production turns out to be as high or higher than gasoline production...a bad solution. We could abolish all gas cars and have electric, but electric would increase coal plant use (the worst CO2 emissions). And there are other examples besides the ethanol scam.

As much as I wish we would reduce greenhouse gases, I know we won't. Reducing greenhouse gases is harder than just slowing our output, which we haven't been able to do yet. Just keeping the output at todays levels doesn't stop global warming, the world has to vastly reduce output to try to reverse the effects. And that's IF there is any proof that we actually can alter the climate at this point. To think that we can alter things after all the years it took to reach this point is asking for a miracle.

Which brings me to another group think. What makes anyone believe that the elites are willing to massively change their habits or change the way they make money? We are in a world view that American capitalism is a good thing and that there should be a capitalist solution to global warming. There is that mythological idea that some miracle technology will come along that is CO2 pollution-free and not energy dependent on other nations. But even if that miracle comes along, it must be produced using the old energies, like coal and oil.

Even in the economic climate we have today, I see on TV some building being imploded in order to build some big high rise office building. The energy and resources that I think are being wasted in this "blow the old and build bigger" mentality is NOT progress for global warming. The fact that our rail system is nearly useless for human travel here in the US speaks of our lack of interest to giving up our car culture.

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» advertised group think Posted by: jon B
» And sixth... Posted by: PaulD
Change, status and ego
Posted by: phindrup on Nov 14, 2008 5:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A few years back my then elderly neighbour suffered from stomach ulcers, and had done for 20 odd years. Finally, after again seeing him out on the lawn vomiting after attempting to eat lunch, I asked why he didn’t get the ulcers fixed.
He raged at me that he was under the care of an ulcer specialist, a man in his mid fifties, and said that if it were possible to cure the ulcers his specialist would have done so,
I finally convinced him to see another doctor who I knew used the modern two antibiotic treatment, and within a couple of weeks my neighbour was healed.

Often enough the question has come up as to why the specialist did not use the then relatively new treatment/cure.
I used to argue that this man’s life work, ego and income was invested in his being an ‘ulcer specialist’. If he were to adopt the findings/work of two young upstart doctors who made the breakthrough, then his whole world evaporated.

I would then ask, ‘what would you do in his place?’
While some asserted that they would adopt the new treatment, others were inclined to think that they would cling to the old ways as long as possible.

The interesting question is how did the specialist justify to himself carrying on in the old way, causing people ongoing pain of which they could be easily rid?

The proposition applies equally to the question of why ‘successful’ people, people in leadership roles will not instigate or support change.
Their position and status is derived from the present system, why then would they ever contemplate changing anything?

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» RE: Change, status and ego Posted by: Cathyc
Reality about "global warming"
Posted by: laszlortreiber on Nov 14, 2008 5:28 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For those old enough to remember, the debate over global warming may be reminiscent of the equally intense scare propaganda lasting for several years during the 1980s. Just like the predictions then of doomsday coming in form of “nuclear winter”, nobody can escape being exposed today to the projection of the ominous effects of greenhouse gases proclaimed by the “experts” and politicians.

I certainly find the narrow scope of the ongoing “scientific” debate about “global warming” very disturbing. One does not need more than high school science education and common sense to question the alleged consequences of greenhouse gases generated by human activities. Since the impact of carbon compounds on the climate is the issue, it is most appropriate to take a look at the history of carbon now found in fossils. There is absolutely no doubt about the fact, that at one time most if not all of the carbon now trapped in fossils was present in the biosphere. After all, before carbon compounds became converted to fossils, they first, by definition, had to have been incorporated in living materials. With all the carbon available in the biosphere, the concentration of greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide and light hydrocarbons had to have been substantially higher in the atmosphere than they are now. Nevertheless, the evidence is overwhelming, that Earth not only did not go up in flames but instead it was a very inhabitable place providing favorable conditions for all kinds of living organisms to thrive.

Typical of the narrow scope of the rhetoric about “global warming” is the one-sided characterization of the significance of human activities in the movement of carbon. The natural physical and chemical processes converting biomass to fossils are irreversible. The overall result of the phenomena involved in this process is, that the amount of carbon available in the biosphere is steadily diminishing and, on a geological time scale, it is certain that without human intervention it would eventually lead to critical shortage of carbon available for life on Earth.

Humans probably are the most successful species on our planet when it comes to their ability to adapt to virtually any condition Earth has to offer. As a matter of fact, for thousands of years humans were very resourceful in finding food, cloths and shelter in areas ranging from the tropics to the frigid polar region, from high mountain ranges to farmlands several feet below sea level. Obviously, humans have the capacity to adopt to climate changes caused by their own activities or by nature, although the preference is obvious as evidenced by the voluntary migration of people to warmer climates (to e.g. Florida, Arizona, California, Costa Rica, Mexico, etc.). Historic records leave no doubt about the fact, that we have more reason to fear global cooling than warming. The agriculture-supported Viking settlements of Greenland established during the previous warming trend were wiped out and parts of Europe suffered from famine during the subsequent “little ice age”. Well, should “global warming” actually occur, its progress would be slow enough to allow necessary adjustments for humans. The benefits of increasing temperatures would significantly outweigh undesirable consequences, if any, as they would open up vast territories of Canada, Europe and Siberia for agriculture as well as industrial development, that currently are sparsely populated due to the climate too cold to be attractive for the majority of the population.

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» RE: eality about "global warming" Posted by: laszlortreiber
» RE: eality about "global warming" Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: eality about "global warming" Posted by: Richard House
» What the hell are you saying? Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Sir..I fully agree with you on this! Posted by: Life of Illusion
» RE: eality about "global warming" Posted by: laszlortreiber
» RE: eality about "global warming" Posted by: pelican beak
Professor of Anthropology (retired)
Posted by: Duff on Nov 14, 2008 5:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I cringe when I read that many "social scientists" explain their "findings" as people being "hard wired," that is biologically programed to respond in certain ways. People whose culture has a Western European base, and with that comes the linear concept of time, would fit the models being proposed. While we conceive of time stretching into infinity, most people of Western European cultural backgrounds relate to time as being the near future and not too distant past. Even the date of 1492 seems almost mythical to many Americans. Since that date there has been a couple of world wide climatic episodes. Starting about 1500-1550 is the Little Ice Age when glaciers formed in the Rockies with some wiping out Indian villages on the Worthwest Coast while some Indians were freezing to death on the Gulf Coast. One year, some where in the 1830s-40s, I forget which right now, in New England, every month had a killing frost. Then in the 1890s we had another climatic shift to the "Modern" age and now we are experiencing a warming period. Paleo-climatologists show that climate can change slowly, in a curve-like fashion, or quickly in a step-like manner.

Only people who have a lineal concept of time can consider time as "episodes." There are cultures who have a cyclical (circular) concept of time - what is, was, and will be. So, could it be said that these people are hard wired to have concepts like that? I don't think so. Neither are we hard wired to think lineally. That evolved with our culture.

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» Thank you! Posted by: hagwind
» You're welcome Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: You're welcome Posted by: hagwind
USA= the world???
Posted by: richholland on Nov 14, 2008 6:39 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On my yearly visarun in Cambodja I see;
every year more big new cars, hummers, 4x 4, often of NGO s

Israli, Chinese and Russian investors destroing islands and nature in order to build big hotels and projekts.

Through advertising young poor people buy motorcycles in overcrowded cities.

And the old, blind people, people without feet begging at the beaches.

The Rich donot care for global warming and the poor struggle for this day to survive.

The article is well written but suits a western luxury world.

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The power of propaganda in action.
Posted by: gunboat diplomat on Nov 14, 2008 7:07 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone who looks at the basic science of climate change realizes that the planet is warming due to combustion of fossil fuels - that's what's raised the atmospheric content of CO2 and methane, which is what is driving the observed warming.

However, for decades the press has covered this up - they've given huge amounts of space to a handful of industry-funded denialists - often from the very same institutes that specialized in scientific denials of the link between tobacco and cancer. The fossil fuel industry's lead PR team is Edelman, who also ran the tobacco industry's efforts to get secondhand smoking effects ignored.

That was possible because the very same banks and shareholders who are reaping in the world-record profits of Bp, Exxon, Shell, Chevron, etc. - those same banks and shareholders also control all of the major media corporations in the United States, from Time Warner (CNN) to Disney (ABC) to Microsoft-General Electric (NBC/MSNBC) to News Corporation (FOX). Even the public airwaves (NPR, PBS, etc.) are funded by giant corporations like Wal-Mart - and the big W relies entirely on dirty Chinese coal-fired manufacturing for all of their products, and doesn't want any environmental restrictions on trade.

That's why - it's the press. They've been lying to the public and promoting tobacco science denials of global warming for about 30 years now - that's the truth. By and large, the U.S. press is a propaganda system that primarily serves the interests of the billionaires who own the press - and that system of control is exerted via executives and editors who ultimately answer to the shareholder-elected board of directors of the media corporation.

The U.S. press is a farce - look at their record, not just on global warming - how about Saddam's biological and nuclear arsenal? How about the failure to cover the issues during the campaign? How about the endless pro-corporate, anti-democratic spin put out by everyone from FOX to NPR to CNN? "Tax cuts for the rich help the poor! Free market solutions are the only ones that work! Trust the benevolent geniuses who run the government!"

The press. The propaganda system. That's the central problem, because democracy doesn't work at all without a well-informed citizenry.

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» Pardon if I differ Posted by: bornxeyed
Global warming scam!!!
Posted by: zooeyhall on Nov 14, 2008 7:10 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Global Warming" is just the latest scam and alarmist way for people to gain power and money. I am old enough (as I strongly suspect many readers of Alternet are NOT) to remember that this is just the latest in a long line of "doom and gloom" and "the sky is falling!" things to come down the pipeline.

I live in Nebraska, where I am a farmer. So I probably pay more attention to the weather, and have a better memory of past weather, then most people. And let me tell you that the weather is no more warmer now then in the past. In fact, the hottest driest summer ever recorded in 125 years in my state was back in 1936. Should we have banned all Model A cars back then?

The down and skinny about global warming is just this: people are taking something that is inherently unpredictable and extreme (the weather), and using it to advocate drastic social, political, and economic changes.

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» Don't grow corn on everything Posted by: zooeyhall
» Sir...I am NOT an asshole! Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: Global warming scam!!! Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» RE: Global warming scam!!! Posted by: 9wicket
What is hard wired is the reproductive urge
Posted by: leemiller38 on Nov 14, 2008 7:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author worries about her two children and justifiably so. It was in 1968 that Paul Ehrlich wrote "The Population Bomb", a little book calling attention to the fact that the world is finite and resources will be scarce. That was when the population was just over 3 billion. Now only 40 years later we are on our way to 7 billion and what has been the response by the Bush Adm.---cut family planning and teach abstinence! There also was a book by Malthus in 1798 warning about population. Apparently it does little good to have libraries or to be able to read and think when we are so hardwired to breed.

Did you hear overpopulation mentioned in this past election campaign? We apparently worship embryos instead of fearing the consequences of producing too many of them --given all the fundamentalist anti-choice rheteric we hear at election time. Most Americans are out to lunch including their leaders.

Overpopulation is the driver along with greed of most of our problems, be they economic, social or environmental. The dominiant animal-apparently is not intelligent enough to override its DNA progrmaming to breed. I think it was Julian Huxley who once stated we had better control our numbers while we still have the wealth and resources to do so. It is looking like we may be losing that ability rapidly and Ken Boulding's Utterly Dismal theorem is going to be the final ruling fate for humanity.

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Because we're creatures that embrace prosperity?
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Nov 14, 2008 7:18 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At the 6BN level of human population, asking a well-fed person to potentially go hungry in order to stave off the possibility that their children's children might inherit a world with oceans too acidic to fish, to dry to farm, or an ozone layer that is ineffective at blocking radiation is like asking a bear to leave some fish in the stream deliberately, so his buddy doesn't starve.

Does human nature suck? Yeah, it can. I hate seeing bambi eaten by wolves, too. That's the nature of wolves, though.

Oil and coil provide cheap energy that we use to produce food, heat, modes of transport, etc. It will be a tough row to hoe--putting that genie back in the bottle. No matter how much we in the West invest in "clean" energy, the promise of cheap energy to rapidly industrialize a given society will insure that every last drop, every last chunk of cheap oil and cheap coal are burned.

The only question is whether we use it to advance our civilization, or spend excessively so that other countries can. We get tangibles the first way; the second we get to say "I told you so" right before that last gasp, should global warming prove as lethal as the legends suggest.

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Capitalism: The little guys pay, and pay, and pay...
Posted by: Zeugitai on Nov 14, 2008 7:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Little guys with consciences will and have cut back their carbon footprint; little guys will sacrifice; little guys by the ever-greater numbers will do the right thing, do what needs to be done. They will collectively take up the slack that will be exploited by the big guys who can then afford to go right on pumping pollutants into the air and water. The more the little guy sacrifices, the more the big guys can maintain status quo.

It is directly parallel to the so-called "bailouts." The little guy sacrifices and pays through the nose for generations to come to allow the big guys to go right on taking multimillion dollar bonuses on top of multimillion dollar salaries on top of stocks and perks fit for kings.

This system sucks. It has nothing to redeem it. And if that reflects on what the American nation is, at root, then take it without a grain of salt. Try to face the truth of what America has become: a nation of peons who slave and sacrifice their lives away to provide welfare to corporations, businesses, and government fat-cats.

Americans are the biggest dupes and most gullible suckers ever to constitute a polity...

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» The Ghost of Garret Hardin Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: The Ghost of Garret Hardin Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: The Ghost of Garret Hardin Posted by: bornxeyed
Let's talk climate change.......
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Nov 14, 2008 7:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First off statistically about one-third of Americans don't read or don't understand what they do read. Then you have another few million people who for religious reasons are seeing the changing climate as a precursor to the second coming of Christ, not as a scientific certainty that we (as mere mortals) need to, can, or should do anything about it. You know them, these are people that really don't believe in science and think creationism should be taught in schools. Then you have the crew from the oil industry whose advertisements "claim" that they are really "looking at alternatives"!

Then let us factor in that we have an Administration that for the last 8 years has continued to promote "the theory hasn't been proven" rhetoric and other nonsense because they didn't want to "offend their base"!

Then there is the laize faire attitude that it's not my problem, and by the time it happens I won't be around to see it, so why should I care attitude?! For the last 25 years, our government has promoted a selfish me as the world attitude that has permeated deeply within us as Americans. We have forgotten what it really means to sacrifice for the good of society at large! We have been taught to live in the now - that now means we want, what we want now, it means massive consumerism, it means everything is disposable!

Social scientists cannot quantify that attitude, because on the surface most people will say "I'm not selfish"! However, if you followed these same people around, you might come to another conclusion. Americans must be told the truth in language that they understand - small words, and often, until it becomes ingrained second nature that we as a society and part of the world community need to do better. Of course then you've got the people that will scream how we are interfering with the "free market" (hopefully after this meltdown they will let that phrase die)!

When my son was in second grade he came home from school and explained that he had learned about recycling. When I asked him if he knew why it was important he said "because Mommy, I don't want to walk thru garbage wearing a gas mask"! It was very simply visual - I got the message, and from that day on we started recycling! All it really takes is a few steps just to start.

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» RE: Let's talk climate change....... Posted by: pelican beak
INSTEAD OF WORRYING ABOUT CHANGING THE SUN'S SPOTS, WORRY ABOUT NUCLEAR WINTER
Posted by: salt-of-the-earth on Nov 14, 2008 7:55 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We cannot change a leopard's spots and we can't change the sun's spots either. Climate change is something that cannot be prevented, nor should anybody want to prevent it.

But if Obama succeeds in getting his war with Russia, China and Pakistan, to add to Iraq (and of course Iran will end up being the trigger so it will be Iran also) -- then we need some really good bomb shelters such as the ones the elitists already have in their underground military bases and cities built all over the world. They have plenty of food and water and they can afford to sit things out while the nuclear dust settles on our dead bodies, us serfs.

BUILD US SOME BOMB SHELTERS, FILL THEM WITH FOOD AND WATER, OR LET US GO SOMEPLACE SAFER TO LIVE THAN THIS COUNTRY.

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And what about those artificially too cheap to be true crude oil prices?
Posted by: maxpayne on Nov 14, 2008 8:03 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When the oil prices were at their correct levels, global warming actually slowed down but nowadays, it's back to gas guzzlers and in bigger sizes and very heavy traffic. Nowadays, instead of taking half an hour to drive 15 miles to work, it now takes at least an hour unless I go to work at 6 AM ! Worse, even during lunch time, most people are DUMB enough to go out driving 10-20 miles to their favorite crummy restaurants and half of them in those bigger "suburban" gas guzzling SUVs ! What the FUCK is so difficult about making your own meal that's healthier?

P.S.: Talk about the need to conserve, reuse, recycle, be frugal, or even use an environmentally friendly alternative renewable and you'll get laughed and sneered at. It's time to STOP blaming the population numbers and hold the resource guzzlers accountable !

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I AM HARD-WIRED TO NOT WANT TO BE NUKED TO DEATH. I AM HARD-WIRED TO WANT TO LIVE
Posted by: salt-of-the-earth on Nov 14, 2008 8:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Either build me a bomb shelter or get me a ticket out of this place. I can't sell my house now thanks to the Banksters who have destroyed the economy. So I'm stuck here, while these maniacs talk about starting a nuclear war with Russia and China.

This is all just a bad dream, right?

Wrong. It's real.

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» Salt - you're all smoke and no fire Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: Reality about "global warming"
Posted by: laszlortreiber on Nov 14, 2008 8:55 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
zooeyhall, I admire your patience and good manners demonstrated toward someone as ignorant and arrogant as maxpayne.

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» Thanks Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: Thanks Posted by: maxpayne
Nuclear power plants smaller than a garden shed and able to power 20,000 homes on sale in < 5 Years
Posted by: opmoc on Nov 14, 2008 9:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Guardian article

http://www.hyperionpowergeneration.com/

Company Web Site

"Nuclear power plants smaller than a garden shed and able to power 20,000 homes will be on sale within five years, say scientists at Los Alamos, the US government laboratory which developed the first atomic bomb.

The miniature reactors will be factory-sealed, contain no weapons-grade material, have no moving parts and will be nearly impossible to steal because they will be encased in concrete and buried underground.

The US government has licensed the technology to Hyperion, a New Mexico-based company which said last week that it has taken its first firm orders and plans to start mass production within five years. 'Our goal is to generate electricity for 10 cents a watt anywhere in the world,' said John Deal, chief executive of Hyperion. 'They will cost approximately $25m [£13m] each. For a community with 10,000 households, that is a very affordable $2,500 per home.'

Deal claims to have more than 100 firm orders, largely from the oil and electricity industries, but says the company is also targeting developing countries and isolated communities. 'It's leapfrog technology,' he said.

The company plans to set up three factories to produce 4,000 plants between 2013 and 2023. 'We already have a pipeline for 100 reactors, and we are taking our time to tool up to mass-produce this reactor.'

The first confirmed order came from TES, a Czech infrastructure company specialising in water plants and power plants. 'They ordered six units and optioned a further 12. We are very sure of their capability to purchase,' said Deal. The first one, he said, would be installed in Romania. 'We now have a six-year waiting list. We are in talks with developers in the Cayman Islands, Panama and the Bahamas.'

The reactors, only a few metres in diameter, will be delivered on the back of a lorry to be buried underground. They must be refuelled every 7 to 10 years. Because the reactor is based on a 50-year-old design that has proved safe for students to use, few countries are expected to object to plants on their territory. An application to build the plants will be submitted to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission next year.

'You could never have a Chernobyl-type event - there are no moving parts,' said Deal. 'You would need nation-state resources in order to enrich our uranium. Temperature-wise it's too hot to handle. It would be like stealing a barbecue with your bare hands.'

Other companies are known to be designing micro-reactors. Toshiba has been testing 200KW reactors measuring roughly six metres by two metres. Designed to fuel smaller numbers of homes for longer, they could power a single building for up to 40 years."

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robradio
Posted by: robradio on Nov 14, 2008 10:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
pelican beak has hit the nail on the head. Over population is the chief cause of the coming disaster that is global warming.

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» RE: robradio Posted by: Shey
Global Warming is Hoax!
Posted by: violawall on Nov 14, 2008 10:28 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wake up people! No matter what Al Bore says the debate is not over! Not all scientists agree that people are creating Global Warming. Including John Coleman who started the Weather Channel. In fact, what credible scientist would say the debate is over! Where is the objectivity?
The planet has gone through cycles before. In the 70's scientists were convinced the earth was going into an ice age. LOL! They talked about putting Co2 into the atmosphere to stop it! I'm not saying we shouldn't take care of our planet. Let's just not do something stupid like ruin our economy over it. ooops! To late for that! Let's not make things worse.

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» RE: Global Warming is Hoax! Posted by: Paul1939
» RE: Global Warming is Hoax! Posted by: bornxeyed
What took you so damned long, lady?!
Posted by: DaBear on Nov 14, 2008 11:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That year, 2005, marked a turning point for many people. After decades of observation, speculation, and analysis, the world's climate scientists had reached a consensus, and increasingly the general public was accepting it. As USA Today reported, "The Debate is Over: Globe is Warming."

Hmmm, I seemed to remember a significant scientific consensus way back it the early 1990's...

The problem is there is no "hardwiring" to ignore global warming, but there is the "farmer" gene that has no survival skills or instincts whatsoever. And y'all farmers have been beating down the attention-differents (the ones with the hunter, explorer, warrior, shaman genes) with virtual zeal for the past 200 years or so. Payback's a real bitch, ain't it?

Don't worry, find the nearest attention different (the ones you call "mentally ill") and hang on, we'll get you through the mess you made. We always dragging your dumb asses outta the suck.

Really, 2005?! It took you that long to clue in? Jeezis, some people are too stoopid to live...

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It's blame the people time!
Posted by: Pirate1 on Nov 14, 2008 11:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Listen, given an alternative, people would go for the nonpoluting way. Look what they have to deal with though? No alternatives offered for the most part unless you are really well off. No let up on having to get your ass to work every day or lose your meager little place... There is a huge desire for this change alive in the country and the world but greedy people who run the manufacturing sector refuse to invest in the retooling such a change would require, it's cheaper for them to pay hack scientists to tell you that nothing in really certain about planetary warming. (Really? Go ask a polar bear or an Inuit or a Lapp what is happening to their part of the world.) So they continue to offer us cars and trucks that are basically powered by refined and modified versions of an idea from the end of the 19th century and then want billions from the government to continue to build more. It's assinine.

Now they've glommed onto some scrap of research that suggests maybe the problem is genetic... they can ride that one for another decade or so. You people are so damned gullible that you shrug and go buy another guzzler and just go on with your lives... so conditioned are you that demanding change is unamuricaun. You really need to see the power of people going to the steets and declaring a general strike until things change as they've done in European countries for ever. No one working at making the source of their income really makes them take notice like nothing else. Governments and industry should fear the population. not the other way around.

This bail out that Obama is proposing for the auto industry should be strictly conditional that it all be used to retool for non polluting vehicles and mass transit or it should be denied.

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would global cooling be good?
Posted by: jon B on Nov 15, 2008 7:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Global warming is the predominant consensus to where we are heading, but...global cooling or an ice age is also a theory that has some merit.

The theory is that as Greenland continues to melt, the increasing amounts of colder water entering the Atlantic will eventually shut down the circulatory nature of the ocean. The warm waters flow north along the East Coast of the US to Greenland and circulates east to Europe cooling and eventually moving back south to South America and then across to the Americas. The increased cold water from Greenland and Arctic melt could (emphasis could) disrupt that ocean flow machine.

Now, this theory is just that, a theory. The worse case scenario would be the beginning of an ice age in North America and Europe.

But, even if this becomes the reality rather than all-out global warming, it still wouldn't be good for humans. Neither scenario is something humans would desire.

In our human history we've been fairly fortunate in that our species has thrived in moderate temps, and possibly it is just that fact of moderate temps that has enabled humanity to grow and progress. Cause and effect seem to go together here.

The question is whether humanity can thrive in either case, global warming or cooling. I think not, just my opinion.

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the media lies
Posted by: Life of Illusion on Nov 14, 2008 12:20 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fact, the warmest year of the last century was in the 1930's. Conclusion, WWII must have saved us from global warming that time. All those bombs and A-bombs saved the climate.
Fact, it was the same temp. 2,000 years ago. Conclusion, Jesus saved us from global warming and sin.
Fact, it was 1.5 C WARMER 1,000 years ago. Polar bears did not die off, the world did not end.
1,700 scientist say we must act in the next ten years or it will be the end of the earth.
17,000 scientists say that is not likely.
Al Gore says the sea level will rise 20'. The UN group he was with said 19" and three feet.
The media reported the north pole might be ice free this summer. There has been no report of the ice NOT melting.
It might be that people do not respond because the media lies and miss represents "news" so frequently. Have you seen "Bigfoot" lately?

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» RE: Fact? Posted by: fearn
Divine Primates
Posted by: Earon on Nov 14, 2008 12:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks for the wonderful article. I, too, have been trying to figure out why we humans are so complacent about global climate change. My own work led me to look at our primate nature. If you are interested in reading more, come to http://www.divineprimates.com

Let's keep trying to wake up our culture!

Earon

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» RE: Divine Primates Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: Divine Primates Posted by: Earon
Vercengetorix
Posted by: Vercengetorix on Nov 14, 2008 12:48 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From the article:
"People spin the information to keep their worldview intact." They do their best to hold onto their worldviews, says Slovic, because so much of their personal identity and social networks are tied up in maintaining it."

This is true of all human beings, including those that reject the data regarding 2008 being a cooler year than 2007 and projections that 2009 will follow suit. GW entusiasts are every bit as susceptible to spinning information to keep their world view intact as anyone else. Think about it.

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» RE: Vercengetorix Posted by: Earon
The Doctrine of Perpetual Growth
Posted by: GUY FOX on Nov 14, 2008 1:29 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As is usually the case... the article herein has carefully avoided the biggest gorrilla in the room in regard to global warming and other related issues threatening the very survial of ewe-man-unkind, namely... THE DOCTRINE OF PERPETUAL GROWTH of the global economy and the human population on Planet Over-Birth-Earth, a fragile host organism of LIMITED space and LIMITED resources. Perpetual growth in any closed system is NOT progress. IT IS CANCER!

Humanity (a.k.a.: ewe-man-unkind) has less than twenty years left. Old Coyote Knose... that 'deny-all' will not save your willfully ignorant baboony asses.

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» RE: The Doctrine of Perpetual Growth Posted by: Life of Illusion
Smoking and cancer: a prelude
Posted by: PaulK on Nov 14, 2008 1:33 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the 1920s doctors endorsed cigarettes. The American Medical Association didn't say a bad thing about cigarettes until perhaps the 1960s. However, there were rumors floating around that tobacco killed people, as early as the 1870s. President Ulysses S. Grant wrote his memoirs because he had a sense that his cigar-smoking habits were going to kill him soon, and sales of his memoirs would provide income for his family.

Something in human nature refused to connect lung cancer with cigarettes, at least until someone in the family was dead.

In the 1980s I saw a button, "Saccharine may be cancerous to your rat." Humans accepted that saccharine could kill rats, but not people. In fact saccharine is carcinogenic, but no one could prove that any one particular person got bladder cancer solely because of saccharine. So, many people died.

A child born today has a 50% chance of dealing with their own cancer in their lifetime. The likely causes are lying all over the child's house in plain sight: pesticides under the sink, air freshener Christmas trees in the car, bisphenyl-A lining the insides of tin cans, a vinyl chloride rubber duck, mercury in the tooth fillings, lead paint dust in the corner. People will care a lot if their children die someday, but right now they all assume nothing bad can happen.

I conclude that people are sometimes really stupid and helpless. Hug your kids!

Now we come to climate change. The article fails to note the runaway Arctic methane meltdown now taking place every summer, which is apparently leading to wildly rapid overheating.

Climate change can be divided into "slow" and "fast" effects. 1000 tornadoes or 3 hurricanes of 175 mph in the same year are "fast" effect. They're happening now. New Orleans flooding can happen now. Houston being crushed by a 25 foot storm surge almost happened, but the surge was only 13 feet, false alarm, nothing to worry about, unless you lived in Galveston in which case if you're reading this then you got out in time. Katrina had a 38 or 39 foot storm surge in Mississippi, and it was down to a category 2 when it hit land. If you live in Miami you're saying a 20 foot storm surge could not ever happen here, never has before. If you live in New York City you're saying you'll never get a storm surge into the subways and electrical conduits, shorting out the city for five long years, nor will a 150 mph hurricane ever turn lower Manhattan into a sea of glass.

Home insurance companies aren't completely stupid. Your waterfront homeowners insurance has doubled. Either that or your insurance company wrote "no hurricane damage" into your policy, and the bank that holds your mortgage is too financially stupid to demand that you cover hurricane damage on their investment. So, the first effect of global warming is a shrinkage of your bank account.

Long term, most of the earth's species will disappear and Miami will be a few skyscraper tops sticking out of the middle of the ocean far from land. All that waterfront property will be gone.

With the possible runaway release of a trillion tons of methane, it's impossible to tell how close that long term event will be.

As a selfish economic policy, the United States, in conjunction with the Netherlands, Bangladesh and many countries with coastlines, should stop global warming. We can't afford it.

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WAR IS BIGGEST USER OF FOSSIL FUEL
Posted by: Rosasharn on Nov 14, 2008 1:57 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our military uses 40% of our fossil fuels. Not to mention that it's costing us BILLIONS every day. Why can we not make the leap from this knowledge to ending our dependency on WAR? End the wars (especially IRAQ!) and stop the pollution, save the money and bail our thick heads out of this mess!

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It is official-BBc and british establishment for mass genocide -BBC agrees, time for the poor2die-
Posted by: avatar_singh on Nov 14, 2008 3:38 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/45876,

BBC agrees, time for the poor to die!

FIRST POSTED NOVEMBER 14, 2008

In the middle of all the hoo-hah over Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand's childish phone calls on a late-night radio show, you may have missed a far more scandalous utterance that was made on BBC radio.

On 5 November, the upmarket Nightwaves on BBC Radio 3 aired a discussion about overpopulation between Dr Susan Blackmore (a neuroscientist) and Professor John Gray (of the London School of Economics).

Dr Blackmore said the "fundamental problem" facing the planet today is that "there are too many people". Professor Gray agreed. Then Dr Blackmore declared: "For the planet's sake, I hope we have bird flu or some other thing that will reduce the population, because otherwise we're doomed."

So, it's official: at the Beeb it is unacceptable to make crude jokes about having sex with someone's granddaughter, but it is perfectly OK to wish death upon large swathes of mankind.

Make a rude call to Andrew Sachs' answerphone and you will be accused of dragging the BBC's good name through the dirt. Spout misanthropic nonsense about the need for a speedily contagious disease to come and wipe out mankind and nobody will bat an eyelid.

At the Beeb it is perfectly OK to wish death upon large swathes of mankind

The disparity between the public reaction to Brandgate (wild) and the public reaction to what I think we should call 'Birdflugate' (non-existent) reveals a great deal about the warped morality of the cultural elite.

The reason why Dr Blackmore's remark received no coverage or complaints is because the herbal tea-drinking literati that listens to Radio 3 discussion programmes will secretly share her prejudices about overpopulation.

Malthusianism, the one-eyed belief that all of the Earth's problems are caused by over-breeding, is making a comeback in polite circles.





Following the discrediting of eugenics during the Second World War, Malthusians had been rather shamefaced about their beliefs. They continually invented new PC terms with which they might dress up their angst about "too many people".

In Africa in particular, measures to tackle overpopulation were promoted in the deceitful language of "choice" and

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Don't sweat it
Posted by: inprov73 on Nov 14, 2008 5:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With the oceans dying and the rain forests being cut down at a horrendous rate our problem is not Global Warming but lack of oxygen. We'll probably all be dead of asphyxiation long before the effects of too much CO2 kick in.

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One Thought
Posted by: luckysun on Nov 14, 2008 7:09 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been thinking about this a lot over the past year: why people just don't get it. One of the reasons is that they don't see the effects of global climate change. Many people in the US don't travel much; it's too expensive. If you don't travel, you won't see the effects. Many people aren't very observant; they don't see that the effects are happening.

It's all like a series of photographs of someone knocking down a stack of blocks, and the time between each picture is 5 minutes. You kinda forget the picture before the picture you're seeing, and by the time you get to the end, you have completely forgotten what the first picture showed.

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Dear Lisa O. Bennett,
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Nov 14, 2008 11:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If it is fear that is required, why don't you USE it in your article?
Sea level rising a little isn't going to affect anyone in Illinois, Iowa
and other places far from the ocean. Are you intentionally
avoiding talking about starvation and the fall of civilization or the
pain of breathing H2S? It seems to me that if you really want to
convince people, given your article, that you would talk about
how global warming has caused H2S made by sulfur bacteria in
the ocean to painfully kill many species. H2S or SO2 will react in
your lungs, making H2SO4, sulfuric acid alias battery acid. It
seems to me that if you really want to convince people, you would
talk about how climate changes have caused agriculture to
collapse, causing the fall of a few dozen previous civilizations.
Why don't you talk about painful one person things like dissolving
lungs or starvation? Why do you instead talk about minor things
like a sea level rise 1000 miles from here?

Thanks for the analysis on equalitarians versus authoritarians on
the subject of nuclear power. That is a subject where a really big
psychological problem exists. The very best thing an equalitarian
can do to avoid further global warming is to DO a change of
attitude on nuclear power. Could you, Lisa O. Bennett, help us
explain to equalitarians that energy source is a problem for
engineers to solve, not a decision for politicians to make? Energy
is NOT a political issue. It is an engineering problem. Making
electricity has nothing to do with left versus right or Republicans
versus Democrats or safe versus risky. If it were safe versus
risky or clean versus dirty or radiation versus no radiation, we
would shut down COAL fired power plants a long time ago.
Nuclear power is the safest, the cleanest and the least radioactive.
Wind and solar power are dominated by corporate giants just as
much as nuclear is.

Lisa O. Bennett, please in your next article explain that it is within
the power of the average person to personally avoid starvation and
dissolving lungs by doing the "simple" act of changing their own
attitude on the subject of nuclear power. If all Americans had the
same attitude as the people of France, our CO2 production would
be cut by 40%, we would have a cleaner environment, we would
be healthier, 24000 fewer Americans would die each year, and we
would pay 30% LESS for electricity.

Journalism: The job of journalists is to write emotional stories
that sell newspapers and TV advertising time. What you see on
TV has nothing to do with what really happened.

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More like Global Hoaxing
Posted by: Roman Senator on Nov 14, 2008 11:31 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What? Oops. I'm sorry, I've been ignoring your warnings on Global Warming because there is no Global Warming!!

Oh dear, did I just interrupt a religeous rant?
Did I just step on your religeous beliefs?

The right has fire and brimstone fundamentalism and the left has Global Warming.

BOTH are ridiculous (and a little too hot ;-)

Our most holy mantra;
I want to believe in Global Warming,
therefore there is Global Warming!
Rejoice!

When it comes to science, let's have the DATA do the driving.(This of course is the Radical in me speaking.)
Global temperatures have been FLAT for the last decade.

Of course, this is in violation of GW religeous canon and we all know that dissent and facts cannot be tolerated. Let the juvenile ad hominims begin for the heretic.

It is now safe to end your hysterics.
But of course, there is still plenty of GW kool-aid left.
Drink up.

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» don't you use science? Posted by: jon B
» RE: don't you use science? Posted by: Roman Senator
» RE: don't you use science? Posted by: lessbread
Who's most in denial
Posted by: daw13 on Nov 15, 2008 7:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The public's response to global warming may indicate some fuzzy thinking, but perhaps not a genetic inability to embrace reality. This article does, on the other hand, indicate some pretty profound ivory tower denial

I teach sociology at a city college. Most of my students, year after year, assume that the world consists of nation-size gangs. Pretty much what they've always been taught. The top gang prevails. What happens to others? They die. And most have never read George Orwell. What this article ignores is people's underlying assumption that the problem of too many people and not enough energy will be addressed by those in power in the manner Orwell predicted.

That this might not work anymore, if it ever would, is a hypothesis that grows stronger each year since 9/11. No longer do my students automatically assume that the US can get away with anything it likes on the world stage. Still, the liklihood that elites of the world will share as much as they must to ease the pain of global suffering as energy usage must sink for a time (until solar or fusion come on line), seems to them remote. The elites will certainly prefer an Orwellian approach, whatever the rest of us think.

So who are the fuzziest thinkers? The public, or those who ignore how imperial power really operates? If this view seems pessimistic to some, turn it on it's head. It's simply of way of saying, "Hey friends, let's quit beating ourselves up, and organize, finally, to put a stop to Orwellianism."

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How I Helped
Posted by: LeaderofMen on Nov 15, 2008 7:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I drive a Prius. My husband drives a Lexus hybrid. We changed nearly all our bulbs to CFs - those not on dimmers. We've had single-stream recycling for over a year and discovered that 90% of our trash is RECYCLABLE!! We had to get a 2nd 90-gallon container to hold everything.

What else can we possibly do as individuals? WE'RE NOT PRODUCING KIDS.

That's the only thing YOU as an individual can do above and beyond reducing your carbon footprint if you own a business based on that element.

STOP REPRODUCING LIKE IT'S A GAME AND YOU IMMEDIATELY HELP SOLVE THIS ISSUE.

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» What else you can do Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: What else you can do Posted by: Beck
We're "hardwired" to cause-and-effect.........
Posted by: RickW on Nov 15, 2008 3:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we put our hand in the fire and it burns, we know not to do that.

If we however, turn on a light switch, we only see light where there was dark. We don't see the coal being mined and burnt, or the land being drowned by the dam, or the precarious situation surrounding the storage of spent rods from the reactors. The reason for this is the circuitous route that energy takes to us to "do our bidding". Indeed, energy itself is some kind of invisible power, and most of us have no idea what it is, or how it works.

If turning on a light switch was a conscious effort, requiring a series of steps to "light up the dark", maybe we'd be more environmentally aware.

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I agree that nuclear fuel should not be wasted in Yucca Mountain.
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Nov 15, 2008 6:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yucca Mountain contains an enormous supply of nuclear fuel that
should not be wasted. We don't recycle nuclear fuel because
spent fuel is valuable and people steal it. The place it went that it
wasn't supposed to go to is Israel. This happened in a small town
near Pittsburgh, PA circa 1970. A company called Numec was in
the business of reprocessing nuclear fuel. I almost took a job
there, designing a nuclear battery for a heart pacemaker. [The
army offered me more money to work on nuclear weapons
effects.] [A nuclear battery would have the advantage of lasting
many times as long as any other battery, eliminating many
surgeries to replace batteries.] Numec did NOT have a reactor.
Numec "lost" a quantity of reactor grade uranium. It wound up in
Israel. The Israelis have fueled both their nuclear power plants
and their nuclear weapons by stealing nuclear "waste." See:
Pittsburghlive

It could work for any other country, such as Iran or the United
States. It is only when you don't have access to nuclear "waste"
that you have to do the difficult process of enriching uranium,
unless you have a Canadian "CANDU" reactor or a British
Magnox reactor, both of which run on unenriched uranium.
Numec is no longer in business. The reprocessing of nuclear fuel
in the US stopped. That was the only politically possible solution
at that time, given that private corporations did the reprocessing.
My solution would be to reprocess the fuel at a Government
Owned Government Operated [GOGO] facility. At a GOGO
plant, bureaucracy and the multiplicity of ethnicity and religion
would disable the transportation of uranium to Israel or to any
unauthorized place. Nothing heavier than a secret would get out.

I have no financial stake in the nuclear power industry, and I
never have. Nobody is paying me to say this.

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Global Cooling-Wanna Bet?
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Nov 15, 2008 6:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]

RealClimate.org

8 May 2008
Filed under: Climate Science — stefan @ 1:55 PM

By Stefan Rahmstorf, Michael Mann, Ray Bradley, William
Connolley, David Archer, and Caspar Ammann

Global cooling appears to be the “flavour of the month”. First, a
rather misguided media discussion erupted on whether global
warming had stopped, based on the observed temperatures of the
past 8 years or so (see our post). Now, an entirely new discussion
is capturing the imagination, based on a group of scientists from
Germany predicting a pause in global warming last week in the
journal Nature (Keenlyside et al. 2008).
Specifically, they make two forecasts for global temperature, as
discussed in the last paragraphs of their paper and shown in their
Figure 4 (see below). The first forecast concerns the time interval
2000-2010, while the second concerns the interval 2005-2015 (*).
For these two 10-year averages, the authors make the following
prediction:

“… the initialised prediction indicates a slight cooling relative to
1994-2004 conditions”

Their graph shows this: temperatures in the two forecast intervals
(green points shown at 2005 and 2010) are almost the same and
are both lower than observed in 1994-2004 (the end of the red line
in their graph).

Figure 4 from Keenlyside et al '08

The authors also make regional predictions, but naturally it was
this global prediction that captivated most newspaper stories
around the world (e.g. BBC News, Reuters, Bloomberg and so
on), because of its seeming contradiction with global warming.
The authors emphasise this aspect in their own media release,
which was titled: Will Global Warming Take a Short Break?

That this cooling would just be a temporary blip and would
change nothing about global warming goes without saying and has
been amply discussed elsewhere (e.g. here). But another question
has been rarely discussed: will this forecast turn out to be correct?

We think not – and we are prepared to bet serious money on this.
We have double-checked with the authors: they say they really
mean this as a serious forecast, not just as a methodological
experiment. If the authors of the paper really believe that their
forecast has a greater than 50% chance of being correct, then they
should accept our offer of a bet; it should be easy money for them.
If they do not accept our bet, then we must question how much
faith they really have in their own forecast.

The bet we propose is very simple and concerns the specific
global prediction in their Nature article. If the average temperature
2000-2010 (their first forecast) really turns out to be lower or
equal to the average temperature 1994-2004 (*), we will pay them
€ 2500. If it turns out to be warmer, they pay us € 2500. This bet
will be decided by the end of 2010. We offer the same for their
second forecast: If 2005-2015 (*) turns out to be colder or equal
compared to 1994-2004 (*), we will pay them € 2500 – if it turns
out to be warmer, they pay us the same. The basis for the
temperature comparison will be the HadCRUT3 global mean
surface temperature data set used by the authors in their paper.

...................article continues..............

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Anger, not guilt
Posted by: Hans B on Nov 16, 2008 1:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Aside from how we are wired - and aside from our culture of "creative destruction" which can't handle permanent change - there is also the question of bad psychological tactics. We environmentalists, and those governments which do take climate change seriously, have too much used the guilt card. It's counterproductive: it makes people go in defensive mode. At best it has led a small minority to drive slightly less. Peanuts.

We should have gone for the cheapest and biggest things first: coal-fired plants and deforestation. And instead of guilt, we should have used anger. Informing people so they'd be mad at the logging, coal and energy companies that are threatening their children's future for no good reason, not even economics.

It's not too late. We've got to go down that path and fast. The mere idea of coal-fired plant construction should make the public so livid that no one would dare propose it. And we can stop deforestation quickly enough if corruption, and the hide-behind-the-poor-countries mentality of the industrialized world, are no longer quietly accepted. The rest will follow when people have seen that action gives results.

Stop the guilt. Get angry.

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Keep it simple-experts blather
Posted by: Sandlin on Nov 16, 2008 9:16 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Actually, I think the response by most people may boil down to something much simper: distrust. Some of us have learned to distrust anything that the "establishment" says whether politicians, "scientists", or whatever kind of expert because they have proven time and again to be wrong. Usually, it turns out that the experts have been manipulating us for their own purposes, not to make things any better.
Fear-mongering, which is the main tool used by Washington, looses its effectiveness after a while, and people stop listening to the noise. Cry wolf?
And, "global warming" could also be just a part of a regular cycle of weather-change, and not anything caused by man.
Very simply, the "experts" aren't so expert.

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Human Beings Hard-Wired to Smell BS
Posted by: rlseballos on Nov 16, 2008 10:47 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People can smell the global warming BS.

They can also feel the dollars flowing out of their pocketbooks.

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A lot of words...
Posted by: Daniel35 on Nov 17, 2008 1:17 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... to say we're naturally programmed to deal first with the here and now, and people we know. I can't see beyond my local horizon, I don't know anyone in China and I can't afford to believe everything I'm told. 'My' first priorities must be for 'me', as in putting my own oxygen mask on first. Then they extend to my gene and meme pools. But the more distant my relatives, the further back in the bus. The science of predicting global futures is rather new, and science must compete with business and politics.

The problems actually start with living on a finite planet, our animal instinct for greed (though with humans we often call it "drive"), and being too successful as a species. Since eventually we can't take our gains with us, we make lots of little copies of ourselves so we can pass it on, all seven billion of them 'exhaling' CO2 in many ways.

And who among us can really get our minds around "billion"? A single grain of salt is a cube about .022 inches on a side. A cube of one billion salt grains, packed as close as possible, would be 22 inches on a side, times about seven to match the global population. Add one of those cubes every few years, at increasing frequency.

But Darwin maybe didn't understand all of evolution. Besides just competing and survival of the fittest, we evolve by combining and cooperating on many levels. Some bacteria learned to cooperate, eventually creating the more complex cells that make up our bodies, which then learned to cooperate to form organisms. We learn even faster to cooperate among families and ever larger communities, though it may not seem that fast in the present. The trouble is, we learned too fast to communicate too well on here and now levels and we're behind in cooperating globally.

What we really need to overcome this is for maybe an Antarctic glacier to greatly accelerate its slide into the ocean, raising sea level a couple of feet in perhaps a few weeks, or so I'm told. This, added to tides and storm surges, would at least disrupt a lot of shipping. We'd hear about it also disrupting a lot of lives and a lot of those people would be wanting to come 'here'. This would be a small but relatively acute sample of what's to come, not including chaotic weather, forests burning and changes accelerating. It would at least convince us that it's real, but not necessarily that we're causing it. On the technical side, it seems like an infrared light system could be devised to show for instance the seemingly clear emissions of a power plant, a car exhaust, or maybe even our exhaled breath, all containing increased levels of CO2, absorbing such light, therefore getting hotter and spreading the heat.

Dan Robinson, danrob@efn.org

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» To add to that... Posted by: Daniel35
Individual Cost, Collective Damage
Posted by: goddessjoy on Nov 17, 2008 7:21 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also, the costs of doing something are (at the moment) individual, while the damage is collective. This "tragedy of the commons" can make it hard to choose to pay the cost of efficiency, when the guy next door can pump out the carbon with impunity.

However, if efficiency becomes a social norm, suddenly it will no longer be acceptable to be wasteful (or have too many kids, for that matter).

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On the occasion of the last extinction....
Posted by: Babygoat on Nov 18, 2008 8:48 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What was it that they were feeling? Reading? Eating? No clue, right? Well, this isn't that much different. Everyone dies alone, no matter how many are on the ride. It seems to me that should any respect me as a living soul, I would have found that somewhere, with someone who didn't first profess an interest in how much money I had, either for thier church or their community forums, their co-op's, their "Goodwill" stores.... So, who is really gonna miss me? Who's gonna miss them? I suppose I'll continue to take it "one day at a time" through the last day and then it's over.

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Hoax over reality
Posted by: uncleeddie on Nov 19, 2008 8:35 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone who has half a brain must have noticed two recent changes. The first is the change in rhetoric from "Global Warming" to "Global Climate Change". The second is the fact that it's getting colder and thus the need for the globalist liars to change the rules. Now CO2 is apparently causing global cooling. Wars rage, planes spray the sky with poisons, water is being polluted with fluoride and other toxins, mercury in the vaccines and flu shots, genetically modified food killing us all and our economy and livelihoods on the verge of collapse and what do they tell us idiots to worry about; a natural life gas called Carbon Dioxide. The debate is hardly over as long as free speech and intellectual thought are not drowned out by the criminals trying to impose a CARBON TAX and WORLD DICTATORSHIP on the mentally impaired soon to be slaves. Realize that the media has brainwashed you into believing the global warming caused by humans is real. That is why you find yourself getting so angry at people who expose the hoax instead of doing their own research. Start with Al Gore's main evidence. Start with the ice core samples of the past 650000 years. When you realize temperatures went up 600-800 years before the CO2 levels you are on your way to freeing your hypnotized mind. That was my experience. Also World Trade Center 7 should send any mind not totally in control down the rabbit hole to reality away from the cartoon world most minds have been conditioned to live in.

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» RE: Hoax over reality Posted by: Shey
Concerned about Global Climate Change, are so because we are small 'c' conservative about the planet
Posted by: Squarehead on Nov 20, 2008 11:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dear uncleeddie,

Those of us who are concerned about Global Climate Change, are so because we are small 'c' conservative about the planet we live on. We do not like the radical beliefs of the Ann Coulters ('Take it. It's yours. Rape it'), or the Oil industry apologists who busily disperse their (very radical) belief that 'small' amounts of temperature rise (e.g. 3 degrees) do not matter.

The words or rhetoric you complain about, "the change in rhetoric from "Global Warming" to "Global Climate Change" were in any case probably decided upon firstly by some journalist, but secondly have been latched onto by the climate deniers (often substantially funded by the Oil industry, or the CEI types, or various other vested interests) BTW, where do you get the idea that "it's getting colder" ? The overall planetary change is of an increase in temperature; the complex interaction of wind, water and temperature flows may make some places colder, that does not mean that we therefore have no problem.

There was an election recently, the New World Order guys (PNAC, Neo-Conservatisn in general,) LOST. For at least the 'slightly better' outcome, an Obama administration will have to address these problems. CO2 emissions are a shorthand for damaging industrial activity; industry can change, can be profitable without them. Unless of course that is the Oil or Coal industry. For you personally, you can avoid any such tax by going 'carbon neutral', if you have to burn for heat, use wood. Its carbon neutral.

Now I might be inclined to agree that not ALL global warming and cilmate change, is due to human activities; increased solar activity may be taking place, and if so, it's input would be very important. The planet's energy system (total, not just human activity) is like a kettle of water; as you heat it, it gradually stirs and eddies, in increasingly violent movement. When we experience hurricanes, or tornadoes, or any storm, we are experiencing a change in heat energy.

To see some of the laughable examples which 'deniers' offer, try this one:
“ Dr. William Nordhaus of Yale University estimates that 3°C of global warming would cost the world $22 trillion this century. Al Gore’s package of measures, which calls on the U.S. to “join an international treaty within the next two years that cuts global warming pollution by 90 percent in developed countries and by more than half worldwide in time for the next generation to inherit a healthy Earth,” would reduce warming costs to $10 trillion, at a cost of $34 trillion.
Climate change might harm human welfare, but so would climate change policy. Policy makers should assess and weigh both sets of risks before deciding on a course of action”
.

You gotta keep thinking. These idiots are prepared to risk our species very existence, for THEIR profit. 3°C is a very large change. It would be catastrophic.

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incremental crisis
Posted by: davescott on Nov 25, 2008 6:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is abundantly obvious that our nation responds very poorly to incremental crises of any kind -- from the planetary emergency of global warming to the national emergency that is coming due to our failure to pay our bills. I find the argument in this article as compelling as any explanation.

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