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Environment

The Nasty Truth: Free Trade Agreements May Scuttle Green Jobs Plans

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted October 30, 2008.


Many of the promises the candidates make on the stump would have trouble passing muster with the WTO -- that's the whole point of "free trade" deals.
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If Barack Obama wins the White House, his administration will face potentially irreconcilable conflicts between his signature proposals -- like transforming the American economy into a 21st century "green-collar" job engine -- and the dictates of the "free trade" regime that both major parties have advanced with unbridled zeal for the past quarter century.

It's a story that's gotten little attention during the campaign. The traditional media have found the time to analyze Sarah Palin's wardrobe in great detail, take a hard look at whether or not the fact that Joe Biden was raised in Scranton, Penn., will win over white folks from the "Heartland" and ponder the all-important question of whether a mainstream, centrist Democrat like Barack Obama is in fact a crypto-Maoist. But they haven't bothered to point out that much of what both the Democratic and Republican nominees are promising on the campaign trail would likely be found "illegal" according to the rulings of shadowy trade tribunals that have the power to impose daunting financial penalties against the U.S. government if it were to stray from the economic orthodoxy known as "neoliberalism."

That's what "free trade" deals are about: limiting by treaty the policy space in which lawmakers can operate. As such, both of the presidential candidates are boxed into a cage of their respective parties' creation. It's the dirty secret of the 2008 campaign.

Recently, AlterNet asked Van Jones, founder of Green For All and author of The Green Collar Economy, about this issue, and he responded with defiance. "I want the WTO to tell us we can't do this," he said, "because then we won't have a WTO. I want the free traders to stand up in front of the world and explain to Americans why some people are going to tell you that you can't have clean energy and you can't have your home retrofitted (with American-made products) because it is more efficient for it to be made in Asia or Germany, that you can't bring Detroit back to build wind turbines. I want the free traders to defend having an overseas body to declare this agenda illegal. I want that fight."

It's a fight that might finally help achieve public awareness about what "free trade" really means. When most people hear the word "trade," they picture ships filled with goods crisscrossing the world's oceans. But the reality is that "free trade" is simply a well-tested euphemism for agreements between governments that limit their ability to intervene in the private sector, ostensibly to unleash the awesome "power of the free market."

They don't just cover trade between countries, but also a host of issues that most ordinary people would consider to be purely domestic matters, as long as they have some tenuous connection with international commerce, no matter how far removed.

Activists from across the developing world have been trying for years to call attention to that reality but have largely been ignored by a media and political establishment devoted to promoting the so-called "Washington Consensus."

Now, with Americans hungry for new approaches to the economy, health care, energy policy and a host of other issues, the "free trade" deals advanced by both Democrats and Republicans over the past 30 years may very well come back to haunt them.

According to a report by the watchdog group Public Citizen (PDF), "Many WTO rules have little or nothing to do with international trade," but every WTO country is still "required to 'ensure the conformity of its laws, regulations and administrative procedures'" with the WTO's orthodoxy. Failing to do so is not a meaningless act of diplomatic defiance; the WTO has an enforcement arm. As the report explains:

Domestic policies that extend beyond the WTO constraints are subject to challenge by other WTO signatory countries -- often at the behest of their affected industries -- before WTO tribunals. Of the 137 cases decided to date at the WTO, challenges to domestic laws have been successful nearly 90 percent of the time, with countries moving to alter their laws as ordered except in a single instance, where a country instead chose to pay indefinite trade sanctions to keep its policy in place.
The report also warns that the Corporate Right might use these "incompatibilities" to attack all sorts of progressive legislation, creating what the authors call "a chilling effect."

Nowhere is the conflict between the candidates' rhetoric on the stump and our treaty obligations as clear as with the idea of "green collar jobs" -- perhaps the signature policy initiative of Barack Obama and the modern Democratic Party. The idea is great: Use public funds to invest in new energy technologies and create millions of high-paying jobs here in America -- dignified jobs with decent benefits -- while heading off the looming disaster of catastrophic climate change.

But few of the idea's advocates mention that the bulk of what they envision would likely conflict with our commitments under the international "free trade" regime. This is nothing new; the first dispute ever to be resolved by the WTO was a case brought by Venezuela and Brazil against the United States for provisions in the Clean Air Act of 1990. When parts of the act, which limited the levels of emissions that refined gasoline could produce, were struck down, Mitsuo Matsushita, a member of the WTO tribunal that issued the ruling, noted that by signing the WTO treaty, governments had given "member nations" the authority "to challenge almost any measure to reduce greenhouse gas emissions enacted by any other member."

Consider Obama's plan, "New Energy for America" (PDF). At its heart is a proposal to "invest in a clean energy economy" and "create 5 million new green jobs, good jobs that cannot be outsourced." But most can be. While installing new solar panels would be a job that would stay in the United States, building those solar panels would not be. According to the WTO's Agreement on Subsidies and Countervailing Measures, any financial contribution by a government to the private sector that would give a preference to "domestic over imported goods," either by law "or in fact," is a no-no. Article 5 of that agreement allows a WTO challenge to "any subsidy (tax credit, funding for R&D, and other[s] ...) deemed to ... carry a benefit that has the effect of causing serious prejudice" against goods or services provided by another country. There was an exception for "environmental upgrades," but it expired in 2000.

When it comes to the government, "Buy American" is itself WTO illegal. Obama promises to "help nurture America's success in clean technology manufacturing by establishing a federal investment program to help manufacturing centers modernize" by using federal funds to provide the "critical up-front capital" to modernize "manufacturing facilities to produce new advanced clean technologies." It wouldn't stand a chance if challenged.

Even installing those solar panels is tricky. Under the Agreement on Government Procurement, public funds can only be used to purchase goods and services on the open market (with the exception of weapons and other "defense" spending, and a few other exceptions). This means that while American workers might do the work, there's no way to assure that the profits from that work remain in the U.S. economy. And while Big Oil made sure that energy production wasn't included in the list of services the United States threw open to foreign competition under the General Agreement on Trade in Services, energy transmission was included, limiting the government's ability to set high environmental standards in energy transmission and "related products and services."

Obama promises to "increase fuel economy standards 4 percent per year while protecting the financial future of domestic automakers." This is a nice thought, but it would most likely be subject to challenge: U.S. gas efficiency standards have already been successfully contested once before by the EU in 1994 (under the auspices of the WTO's predecessor, the GATT). The Public Citizen report explains:
The GATT panel found that the U.S. policy, which was facially neutral -- meaning there was one rule for both imports and exports -- had the effect of putting a larger burden on some foreign automakers. The (panel) ruled that the U.S. method of calculating fleetwide efficiency standards advantaged U.S. automakers in practice. ... The case against the U.S. law (was bolstered by) Congressional Record statements concerning the competitive benefits for U.S. autos of the fleetwide calculation, despite the fact that small Japanese cars also benefited from the system.
To address pollution, the Democratic nominee promises to implement an "economy-wide" cap-and-trade program that would use "market mechanisms" to decrease greenhouse gas emissions. He'd auction off emissions permits to polluters and use the money to help pay for the investments in renewable energy that he can't make under the WTO's rules.

But the obvious problem -- one of many potential problems -- is the concept, central to the ideology of "free trade," of "most favored nation" status. In a nutshell, that just means that a member of the WTO, like the United States, has to treat all other members the same. That means that goods imported from countries with weaker emissions standards have to be treated like domestic products. And that, in turn, means that firms -- domestic or foreign -- can simply continue to move their dirty industry abroad, to countries without tight greenhouse gas standards, and import the products back to the United States, keeping our consumer culture's massive carbon footprint intact. Any firm that didn't do so would find itself at a competitive disadvantage in the global marketplace.

Even a policy as simple, and seemingly domestic, as banning the sale of incandescent bulbs and encouraging the use of more efficient alternatives would be subject to challenge under the terms of the Agreement on Technical Barriers to Trade. That limits the government's ability to impose energy efficiency requirements "with a view to or with the effect of creating unnecessary obstacles to international trade (emphasis added)." In other words, if a country that has a thriving incandescent lightbulb industry loses market share, the rules would be on shaky ground.

These are just a few of many examples, all premised on the idea that the economic health of multinationals' bottom lines is far more important than public health, the health of the planet or other vital social goods. And it's not just energy -- these rules impact the candidates' proposals on health care, education, the financial sector and just about everything else (except military spending).

Ultimately, an Obama administration would likely be torn between two ideological camps within the "Big Tent" of the Democratic Party. The candidate's economic advisers include both fiery critics of the "free trade" agenda and some of its most dedicated advocates, mostly veterans of the Clinton administration.

An Obama presidency might therefore represent a kind of final showdown between the progressive and pro-business wings of the Democratic Party. If, as Jones sees it, that comes down to a fight between a now widely discredited ideology called "free trade" and the prospect of a new "green economy" that might help rebuild a tattered middle class while heading off an ecological disaster, then it's a showdown that progressives should be eager to see happen.

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See more stories tagged with: obama, trade, mccain, green economy, wto, van jones, green jobs, green for all, green-collar

Joshua Holland is an AlterNet staff writer.

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"Clean energy" is disturbingly vague, isn't it?
Posted by: gunboat diplomat on Oct 30, 2008 12:39 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's because there's been a major PR effort to present coal and nuclear as "clean". This is reflected in the campaigns of both candidates, who talk a lot more about "clean energy" than they do about solar, wind, geothermal, tidal, biofuels, and phasing out the use of fossil fuels.

It seems clear that Obama will win, and his campaign has promised clean energy programs - however, the question is whether he will be able to deliver. I seem to recall the Democratic Party claiming the same thing back in 2006, don't you?

Of course, McCain and Palin, especially Palin, are tools of the international oil cartels and would have far worse energy policies. AP just did an expose (limited) on Palin's close relationship with Transcanada, winner of the Alaskan Natural Gas Pipeline contract, which will ship Alaskan gas to Alberta tar sands.

That said, Obama's close relationship with Exelon, the largest electicity utility in the nation, with plenty of nuclear and coal-fired power plants, bears some scrutiny. So does his relationship with Warren Buffet, who is one of the major energy investors in the coal-related industry (railroads, which is probably the most profitable aspect of the coal business), as well as a big booster of Canadian tar sand oil.

On the other hand, Obama has also been meeting with T.Boone Pickens, whose wind plan is probably the most promising single large initiative on the drawing board. Pickens is an oil businessman with a record of arranging massive oil company mergers - but he has a good idea on this one.

That's what is most promising about Obama, I think - they guy doesn't surround himself with cronies and yes men, like most of the Bush Administration did.

Still, it is too bad that we couldn't have made a $700 billion dollar loan to the renewable energy industry instead of to Wall Street bankers. The difference would have been that the renewable energy industry would have been able to pay the loan back over time...

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How green is green
Posted by: richholland on Oct 30, 2008 1:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Free Trade means freedom on goods and people...
so if it is cheaper to have mexicans or bangladeshi in stead of unionmembers why to give jobs to americans????? Better make a green people limited on the Bahamas and donot employ american citizens.(The CEO could be an Harvard graduate)

In the Eurozone we have powerfull Green politicians in the Parlements and some of protested before becoming member of parlement against nucleair energy.

And what part is
of my Green electricity, the french nucleair
electricity about 10%, No Green protest.

So I fear this article as many on Alernet.org tell us the inconvenient truth.

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"Clean Energy" is a dodge of main issue --- SUSTAINABILITY
Posted by: metamind on Oct 30, 2008 4:11 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Every day I walk to the supermarket and smell the exhaust of vehicles along the way. That's pollution. It's going to continue spewing from the internal combustion vehicles we own for a long time to come.

The question is not "will people continue to pollut?" but rather "how much pollution is the Earth capable of handling?"

That's sustainability. We pollute. it's simple. Whether it is coal, oil, or nuclear. People pollute.
Yes, we can pollute less with alternatives, but we will still pollute creating them. How much pollution is created by manufacturing solar cells, for example? How about wind mills?

Consuming less is necessary. REDUCING human population is necessary. SHARING more is necessary.

"Clean energy" avoids these issues. The things which are considered to be "clean energy" may be cleaner, but they are not clean. People pollute. it's what we do. Less people = less pollution. Less consumption = less pollution. Alternative energy = less pollution.

But don't fool yourself into thinking there is anything which is totally "clean" other than sitting on a beach absorbing sunlight through your skin.
That's "clean energy." Anything else is dirty energy, including solar, wind and ethanol.

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» Dirty Versus Clean Energy Posted by: Jim Shaw
Are We Trapped?
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Oct 30, 2008 5:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now we have these trade agreements, treaties that according to the Constitution have the force of law. Is there any way out?

To think that we are bound by these trade agreements is clearly BB (Before Bush) thinking. Bush showed that we can simply declare that treaties are null and void (as in the case of the nuclear arms limitations agreements) or we can simply ignore them (as with the Geneva Conventions prohibition of torture and of unprovoked attacks on other nations.

Treaties are just pieces of paper and the U.S. (and apparently only the U.S.) is entirely free to ignore them. Why shouldn't this kind of thinking apply to these noxious free-trade agreements?

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» American exceptionalism Posted by: suprmark
» RE: Are We Trapped? Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Not exactly treaties. Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Not exactly treaties. Posted by: leafsong1
Agenda
Posted by: RedFoxOne on Oct 30, 2008 5:57 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is always something hidden in the Agenda isnt there?

Jiff
Privacy Center

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Nuclear energy - never green, never mentioned
Posted by: BobbieP on Oct 30, 2008 6:33 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nuclear energy is the elephant in the room.

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You Don't Get It.
Posted by: douglashoyt on Oct 30, 2008 6:47 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You, the American citizen, have been voting for those WTO candidates for decades.

Now you are surprised at the result.

Even if Mr. Nader was elected, it would take decades to have "change we can believe in."

You did it to yourselves; and the American public still is voting for the same type of candidates maybe expecting something else.

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» RE: You Don't Get It. Posted by: TheLimit
It's time to cancel those "free" trade scams and legalize INDUSTRIAL HEMP.
Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 30, 2008 7:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Believe it or not, INDUSTRIAL HEMP could easily give local communities and states the power to increase their true domestic production. As for "free" trading it, forget about it. The only goal of "free" trade is to shit-ify the working classes on both sides and get them foaming at the mouth about stupid culture issues. It's a total shame that the phoney "war on drugs" is forcing us to rely on NAFTA's loophole to import hemp products even as we are not allowed to grow our own. This was a major reason I got mad at both parties and strongly recommended a vote for Nader although I realize that at this point Nader's chances of winning the White House are as good as a meteorite hitting this planet this year. The electorate needs to stop DELUDING themselves into believing that there even is such a thing as "free" trade because there never was, never is, and never will be !

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Small Is Survivable, Big Is Ecocidal
Posted by: Last Chance on Oct 30, 2008 7:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Van Jones has the right idea -- close down the WTO. Green technology needs felxibility to replace or retro-fit coal fired power plants and install solar, wind and various other mechanisms.

The problem is supplying such massive amounts of clean energy for an ever-expanding industrial complex that must serve a burgeoning commercial economy for this ever-growing multi-billion population under which more is needed every year.

But the Earth cannot survive such an impact on its natural life-supporting processes. Massive wilderness areas are needed to keep the planet as a healthy biosphere. The only way that can be accomplished is to peacefully reduce the human population through family planning programs Worldwide.

Otherwise, every available plot of land will soon be jammed with wind mills, millions of them to supply the ever-growing cities and the ever-expanding suburbs with their massive housing complexes, gigantic shopping malls and huge parking lots, overflown by growing thousands of jet planes, undermined by expanding mining excavations, etc. and all spewing out megatons of fumes into the air, chemical waste and garbage into landfills and into the oceans!

Therefore, a growing economy is NOT a healthy economy, because too much of any good thing turns it bad! To survive we need a smaller and stable economy for a smaller and stable population on a natural planet Earth, not next century, not next decade, but next year!

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Wittering On about WTO is Irrelevant To The Current Main Agenda
Posted by: opmoc on Oct 30, 2008 7:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The entire World economy is near the point of total collapse.

The sharks in the casino that caused this mess have simply become encouraged by the feeding frenzy and have got even more aggressive. The bailouts have done nothing to improve matters - and have merely served to make governments look weak and vulnerable.

So its not just Joe and his wife and kids being attacked and thrown out in the Street. Its not just companies that are being crushed because the lubrication fluid of perfectly reasonable loans for working capital has been switched off... No the sharks are now attacking entire Countries on a massive scale. Some of the attacks have been thwarted and given some Hedge Funds a bloody nose - but they haven't been killed off - and they will be coming back determined to destroy.

The IMF is attempting last desperate measures to provide some support - but the IMF simply hasn't got the resources itself and is even considering using the Fed and BofE trick of "magicing" money out of thin air.

So what happens next is anyone's guess - but its likely to be extremely nasty and could happen in days.

Stocking up on tinned food, fuel to keep warm, easily tradable assets like cigarettes, and some cash to last through the winter - might seem completely over-reacting....

But it could be a question of survival.

If total collapse occurs - then there is likely to be a period of at least a few weeks when virtually nothing works and survival is down to your own personal resources.

Its much easier to survive in summer than the depths of a really cold winter.

Coal is an extremely rich fuel in that it puts out an enormous amount of heat compared to its volume. Sure it also puts out lots of nasty pollution - but that's what you have got a chimney for (You have got a chimney???).

Hopefully you won't need coal to survive - but its well worth getting some in - just in case.

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Another fine piece from Joshua Holland
Posted by: Bliss Doubt on Oct 30, 2008 7:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been reading about this trade debacle on OrganicConsumers.org and Rachels for years. I long ago concluded that "globalism" is simply a way of setting the bar so low that countries compete on the basis of mediocrity, never on the basis of excellence. Environmental measures that interfere with profit making are simply not allowed. The first thing I recall, and I hope I'm recalling the details accurately enough, was the MTBE debacle in California, where it was used as a gasoline additive. It got into the water table, and the state passed a law barring its use in gasoline there. A trade organization sued California and won, so subsequently the California taxpayers were stuck with the clean-up expense, and to this day I believe MTBE is still a fuel additive. Anybody can feel free to correct me on the fine points. Trade agreements and the WTO are chilling devices that prevent innovation and real competition. Labor laws and consumer protection laws have been challenged, and will continue to be fair game. More than being about protecting multinational corporations, trade agreements are about controlling the workers and resources of the world. There is no way out, other than to get free of the WTO and trade agreements, declare our own sovereignty, and move on. I think that perhaps Obama really does want to do right by the environment, but I think also that he knows he'll be hog tied. This is why I can't stop hoping that people will wake up before November 4 and realize that Nader sees the WTO for the scam that it is, on people and on the environment. Here's a link: www.votenader.org/issues/market/fair-trade/

Love and kisses

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The pen is mightier than the sword
Posted by: solrev on Oct 30, 2008 8:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A few retroactive signing statements by Obama should do the trick. We can not worry about the WTO until we determine if signing statements are constitutional, a very very slow process. “The merchants of the world will weep and mourn for who will buy their goods”.

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Free Trade Policy is Too Complex
Posted by: lil_emeril on Oct 30, 2008 8:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now that we know what we cannot do, it is time to tell the world we are going to do. The USA has the strongest sustainable, secure economy in the world. We must choose long term strategies that are in keeping with the high level goals and values espoused by candidate Obama.

To recover our position of moral leadership we must lead by example. If "Free Trade" and WTO agreements need to be unilaterally modified, so be it.

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Dump the WTO (and the IMF while we're at it.)
Posted by: monkeywrench on Oct 30, 2008 8:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From the article:
"Article 5 of that agreement allows a WTO challenge to "any subsidy (tax credit, funding for R&D, and other[s] ...) deemed to ... carry a benefit that has the effect of causing serious prejudice" against goods or services provided by another country. There was an exception for "environmental upgrades," but it expired in 2000."

In other words, according to WTO rules, support for invention and innovation by anything less than the entire WTO is illegal.

And they call this a "free market"?!

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» Consider this scenario Posted by: suprmark
» RE: Consider this scenario Posted by: Bliss Doubt
Dump the WTO (and the IMF while we're at it) Pt. 2
Posted by: monkeywrench on Oct 30, 2008 9:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WTO rules are just another form of "race to the bottom"; a celebration of mediocrity that we no longer have the time to entertain.

If we are going to have even a ghost of a chance to extricate our species from the dire situation in which it finds itself, we need to innovate and implement sustainable technologies as rapidly as possible – not wait for the ponderous (and crooked) WTO and its for-obscene-profit corporate members to pass judgement based on its members' ability to steal the technology and greedily hoard it.

Otherwise, we all might as well mix up big batches of cocktails, sit back, and watch the unfolding of The End of the World As We Know It.

(To wit: a recent report revealed that the warming and melting in the arctic is occurring at a rate 30 years – 30 YEARS! – sooner than predicted! We're out of time, folks!)

The mandate should be "innovate or die" – not "procrastinate and lie".

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Joshua, there is something missing from your analysis . . .
Posted by: Earthian on Oct 30, 2008 11:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and it is the existing (but not adopted) method for *balanced* trade, a method that dates to at least 1944, perhaps before. Proposed by John Maynard Keynes at Bretton Woods in 1944, when the post-WWII economic system was created, it was rejected by Harry Dexter White, the American representation at the conference.

The article is by Susan George published by le Monde. The article is fabulous, as is the idea. The system proposed by Keynes could apply today, and the article describes not only that, but also the means of getting other nations to agree to implement it.

Here is the link:

http://mondediplo.com/2007/01/03economy

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A Vital Reminder
Posted by: oregoncharles on Oct 30, 2008 12:43 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks, Joshua, for putting this issue back on the table. A point you didn't mention: the "free trade" in capital has been responsible for spreading Wall Street's Ponzi scheme around the globe. Iceland, for one, is finding out what "globalization" really means.

In practice, "free trade" is a way for Democrats to take back in secret all the things they stand for in public. Take Obama's promises that conflict with the WTO: do we really think this guy is as dumb as Bush? No, he's as smart as Clinton.

HE KNOWS.

We may be fooled, but he isn't. Note that the little anti-NAFTA rhetoric he used against Clinton has been taken back. There may be a battle among his advisers, but there's no sign of it in his positions.

NAFTA and the WTO started out as Republican ideas, but it was Bill Clinton that twisted arms and pulled out all the stops to get them through Congress - which the Dems controlled at that point.

Strangely enough, although Bill was a half-hearted bungler when it came to progressive ideas like universal health care (remember Hillary Care? How could we forget? The same plan is now Obama Care.), he was an aggressive, committed, ace politician when it came to corporate ideas like "free trade." Just a coincidence, do you think?

If we smoke enough of that stuff, we can imagine Obama coming down on the said of the fair traders in his entourage. But it takes a lot of stuff: we're really just making it up. It isn't in his campaign positions or his votes - and when has a politician been BETTER than his campaign promises, once in office?

At this point, he's going to be President, and we're going to have to extract anything progressive from him with forceps. How can we build up political leverage on the Democrats now, while there's still an election on?

I have a suggestion: vote for McKinney or Nader. The more votes they get, the more Obama has to worry about his Left, and the more likely he is to throw us a few bones.

P.S.: Alternet has been particularly good about reporting the swing toward Obama in the polls, much better than more openly partisan sites. I appreciate the openness. It's just good journalism.

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» RE: A Vital Reminder Posted by: Shey
» RE: Don't look at the polls, do you? Posted by: oregoncharles
Was this the plan all along?
Posted by: robertmc on Oct 30, 2008 1:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't help but wonder if this was the plan all along? Didn't they say they wanted to make government so small they could drown it in a bathtub?
As an aside, no one has yet to address the underlying problem that caused the mess. Here is the best video I've seen yet that explains the problem.

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Destroy the WTO and the IMF
Posted by: leafsong1 on Oct 30, 2008 2:22 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We invade sovereign countries that look cross-eyed at us, why can't we devastate such non-sovereign powers that have the arrogance to overrule our Constitution? Rather than withdraw from the WTO, wouldn't it be better to lob some cruise missiles at their headquarters, just as an example?

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"Free Trade" is just another symptom of a larger problem.
Posted by: rafaeltoral on Oct 30, 2008 6:54 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Solar panels covering 1/20th of Nevada would satisfy the electrical needs of the entire USA.

With the technology we have today we could all basically live in a utopian paradise, at least relative to what we know today.

The real problem is the continued implementation of a one world government by the elite class, for the purpose of the further enslavement of the vast majority of the world.

A major step needed to move forward is the abolition of the federal reserve.

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What if...
Posted by: WizardofOhm on Oct 30, 2008 7:00 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ok, I know this is going to sound like fantasy, but what if Obama knows that his policies will involve us breaking the free trade agreements? And what if that is part of his intention? And, bare with me, what if he's not bringing it up intentially?
Free Trade is a fabricated name just like the patriot act was, it is hard to go against it without upsetting the ignorant. The last thing Obama needs is another opening for thugs to call him unamerican. (I can see it now "he wants to take away our freedom in trade, just think what other freedoms he'll steal from us")

I realize this sounds like wishfull thinking, but why would he push a rhetoric bound for failure as his primary focus, unless he plans to eliminate the obsticles? Sure politicians lie, but typically they lie in passing, they try not to make a lie the focus of their campaign.


Just a dream, but we just might have a prayer that 'that one' has an ounce of integrity... because an ounce might be all we need

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» RE: What if... Posted by: oregoncharles
Mr. Holland ....
Posted by: Shey on Oct 31, 2008 1:39 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"That's what 'free trade' deals are about: limiting by treaty the policy space in which lawmakers can operate .... it's the dirty secret of the 2008 campaign."
Maybe its a secret to the brainwashed (by mainstream media) masses, who never look deeper than the sound bites emitted bt their TV's, but I think you're underestimating AlterNet readers.

You go on to say "The candidate's economic advisers include both fiery critics of the 'free trade' agenda and some of it's most dedicated advocates, mostly veterans of the Clinton administration."
Let's assume for a moment that Obama is both as smart as we believe him to be, and as dedicated to the concepts of bringing jobs back to America, and to human rights, and to a "green economy", as he claims to be.
He has to know that these major elements of his agenda cannot be implemented under the present Free Trade agreements that the U.S. is party to.
We need to pull out of NAFTA and especially the WTO, which is just a front for international dictatorship by multi-national corporations. And what's to stop us from doing so, if we have leadership that understands the necessity and has the will? If Obama, once elected, dumps the "free trade" advocates among his economic advisers and charges those remaining (the "fiery critics" of "free trade" you spoke of), with finding a way to get us out of the WTO, once and for all, there is no reason this can't be accomplished ("man on the moon in a decade", can't be any harder than that).

The Bush legacy of unfettered executive power must at some point be dealt with, but why not use it for a good cause or two, in the meantime.
There are many organizations .... environmental, human rights, workers rights, etc. .... that are ready, willing and able to jump on this issue and hold Obama's feet to the fire regarding the need to get us out of what is possibly the biggest mistake the U.S. has ever made, signing on with NAFTA (thanks, Bill "I'm a man of the people" Clinton) and the whole corporate/fascist travesty that is the WTO.

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» RE: Fire? What Fire? Posted by: oregoncharles
Hello? Spare the Propaganda
Posted by: kat827618 on Nov 1, 2008 8:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) Every week, I get the "Green Jobs" newsletter listing companies here and abroad that offer engineering and manufacturing/installation jobs in the green energy industry, which, incidentally, is a growth-industry that some say will be the next Bull Market.

2) I currently purhase 100% of my 100% renewable electricity from New England GreenStart, a non-profit utility (massEnergy.com). This utility employs more people as it expands.

3)Furthermore, my state will not only be getting a windfarm, we will be manufactuing parts for windfarms, generating 8,000 new jobs right here.

4) 28 states plus DC now have thriving, expanding green energy programs. (It's only a matter of people insisting to their governors and city council.) These programs create jobs. See above.

5) The German government has fitted 80,000 houses with solar panels. (All we have to do is update the old grids and buy/make solar panels.) That's a lot of contractors right there.

6) Norway is building electric cars, not that we haven't here. See sierraClub.org article [solar] "Cars That Never Need Gas" [and power your home as well].

7) All of the food that I buy is organically grown. Someone has to grow it.

8) The UBC (Unified Building Code) is about to be rewritten to require that buildings be more energy-efficient. That means a greater market for energy-conseving features in the building and remodeling industry. Someone has to make and install that equipment.

Green Jobs are here already. Green Jobs are growing. Do some research.

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P.S.
Posted by: kat827618 on Nov 1, 2008 9:48 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A few weeks ago, I read that the latest (American) innovation in solar technology is the solar balloon.

Forget ginormous power-plants.

The energy of the future will be about the solar equipment on your roof and the roof of every other building. Wind, hydro and biofuel will be supplemental to that, through smaller, localized facilities. (Manufacture, installation and maintenance = green jobs.)

It takes 10 years to build a nuke-plant, and that takes nuke-plants "off the table," because solar, wind, hydro and bio are right here, right now, safer and cleaner.

American-made goods are available still (browse DiamondGussetJeans and TheUnionShop).
Some businesses have gone green (all solar and/or renewably-powered) and/or eco-friendly.

Fair-Trade goods are also available from other countries (available at Whole Foods, which creates jobs).

Recycle. Take public transit. These activities create green jobs.

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LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Posted by: gellero1 on Nov 1, 2008 11:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Messiah and the Democratic Party are free traders to the core. Even the Messiah backtracked on his 'reevaluate NAFTA' promise.

Did any of you geniuse posters note that both China and India launched rockets into space last month.??

Who do you think will build the turbines and solar cells etc. The American working man?? Why?? Did American workers make your iPod, iPhone, or TV???

You better believe in another type of Messiah if you think you'll be doing anything but installing what is made abroad.

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What the coal companies know that most of you don't:
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Nov 2, 2008 10:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As long as you keep messing around with wind, solar, geothermal and wave
power, the coal industry is safe. There is no way wind, solar, geothermal and
wave power can replace coal, and they know it. If you quit being afraid of
nuclear, the coal industry is doomed. Every time you argue in favor of wind,
solar, geothermal and wave power, or against nuclear, King Coal is happy.
ONLY nuclear power can put coal out of business. Nuclear power HAS put coal
out of business in France. France uses 30 year old American technology. So
here is the deal: Keep being afraid of all things nuclear and die either when [not
if] civilization collapses or when H2S comes out of the ocean and Homo
"Sapiens" goes extinct. OR: Get over your paranoia and kick the coal habit and
live. Which do you choose? I put quotation marks around "Sapiens" because it
is not clear that most of us have enough brains to avoid extinction when it is
clearly predicted and the safe path has been pointed out. Nuclear is the safe path.

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So free trade means we have to accept factory-made nuclear reactors from Canada?
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Nov 2, 2008 10:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And coal company shills, alias protesters, get put in jail so that
installation can continue uninterrupted? Perhaps there is hope yet
of installing ten thousand new nuclear reactors during the Obama
administration to replace every coal fired power plant on earth. If
so, there is hope of preventing the extinction of Homo Sap and
maybe even hope of preventing the fall of civilization. Not that I
like the WTO. I don't like the WTO.

Of course, a much nicer scenario should have happened:
Americans should have replaced all coal fired power plants with
nuclear reactors long ago. That would require that Americans
had been educated properly. ALL high school students should
have taken 4 years of physics, 4 years of chemistry, 4 years of
biology and 8 years of math, starting in 1950. If that had
happened, the coal industry would have had no hope of driving
Americans paranoid of all things nuclear.

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Why I voted for Obama rather than McCain:
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Nov 2, 2008 11:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. Obama would require ALL CO2 production to fall under the
cap and trade scheme. McCain would give freebies to the worst
coal burning power plants.

2. Obama would ask advice from unbiased real scientists, such as
the government's own, professors at universities and Nobel
laureates. McCain would ask advice from coal company
executives.

3. Obama has an obvious IQ advantage over McCain and Biden
has a very obvious IQ advantage over Palin.

4. Sarah Palin is obviously, demonstrably insane. Anybody who
thinks the earth is only 6000 years old has got to be crazy or living
in the 17th century.

5. If we don't take drastic action immediately, civilization will fall
when food production becomes impossible in the American
midwest. 99.99% of us will die in that fall, including YOU. It is
obvious from the above that McCain will not take the action
necessary. Obama will become a convert to my way of thinking
when he gathers his brain trust. McCain will never gather any
truly independent experts. Palin will take us backward and into
destruction.

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Nuclear power is proven to be the safest.
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Nov 2, 2008 11:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Deaths per terrawatt year [twy] for energy industries, including
Chernobyl. terra=mega mega

fuel......... ........fatalities... .....who......... .......deaths per twy
coal......... .........6400...... ......workers........... .........342
natural gas..... ..1200...... .....workers and public... ...85
hydro........ .......4000..... .......public............ ............883
nuclear........ .........31...... ......workers............ .............8

Nuclear power is proven to be the safest. Source: "The Revenge
of Gaia" by James Lovelock page 102.

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COAL contains URANIUM
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Nov 2, 2008 11:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
COAL companies have DUPED most Americans into thinking that Nuclear power
is dangerous. Nuclear is the safest. Nuclear has killed ZERO Americans.
Meanwhile, COAL kills 24000 Americans every year. Coal kills more like a
Million Chinese every year.

Coal is mostly carbon, but the complete list of impurities in coal includes every
element in the periodic table. The major impurities are, depending on where
you found it: URANIUM, ARSENIC, LEAD, MERCURY, Antimony, Cobalt,
Nickel, Copper, Selenium, Barium, Fluorine, Silver, Beryllium, Iron, Sulfur,
Boron, Titanium, Cadmium, Magnesium, Calcium, Manganese, Vanadium,
Chlorine, Aluminum, Chromium, Molybdenum and Zinc. Coal smoke and
cinders are commercially viable ORE for the above elements. Chinese industrial
grade coal contains much more arsenic than American coal. Chinese industrial
grade coal is sometimes stolen by peasants for cooking. The result is that the
whole family dies of arsenic poisoning. Coal varies a lot. You have to analyze
it not only mine by mine but even lump by lump. Coal is a rock. It comes out
of the ground. What would you expect of a rock?
Reference:
OUR NUCLEAR FUTURE:
THE PATH OF SELECTIVE IGNORANCE
by Alex Gabbard
Oak Ridge National Laboratory
Oak Ridge, TN
Selections from the 19th Annual Conference
SOUTHERN FUTURE SOCIETY
March 14,15,16, 1996
Nashville, Tennessee

Published by the
SOUTHERN FUTURE SOCIETY
1996
Edited by Jack D. Arters, Ed.D.
Conference Director
The truth is, all natural rocks contain most natural elements. Coal is a rock.
The average concentration of uranium in coal is 1 or 2 parts per million. Illinois
coal contains up to 103 parts per million uranium. A 1000 million watt coal
fired power plant burns 4 million tons of coal each year. If you multiply 4
million tons by 1 part per million, you get 4 tons of uranium. Most of that is
U238. About .7% is U235. 4 tons = 8000 pounds. 8000 pounds times .7% =
56 pounds of U235. An average 1000 million watt coal fired power plant puts
out 56 to 112 pounds of U235 every year. There are only 2 places the uranium
can go: Up the stack or into the cinders.
Since a reactor full fuel load is around 11 tons of 2% U235 and 98% U238, and
one load lasts about 10 years, and what one coal fired power plant puts into the
air and cinders fully fuels a nuclear power plant.
Compare 4 Million tons per year with 1.1 tons per year. 1.1 divided by 4 Million
= 2.75 E -7 = .000000275 =.0000275%. Remember that only 2% of that is
U235. The nuclear power plant needs ~44 pounds of U235 per year. The coal
fired power plant burns coal by the trainload. The nuclear power plant consumes
U235 in such small quantities yearly that you could carry that much weight in a
briefcase. The full fuel load and the years between fueling varies from reactor to
reactor, but one truck can carry the weight of a full nuclear fuel load.
See also: http://www.ornl.gov/ORNLReview/rev26-34/text/coalmain.html

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Natural Background Radiation according to Gwyneth Cravens
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Nov 2, 2008 11:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reference: "Power to Save the World; The Truth About Nuclear
Energy" by Gwyneth Cravens, 2007 Finally a truthful book about
nuclear power. Gwyneth Cravens is a former anti-nuclear activist.

Page 35: Your golf clubs may contain depleted uranium [DU].
Don't worry, and don't confuse DU with spent fuel. DU is what is
removed from the uranium to make it enriched in U235. DU is
pure U238. U238 has such a long half life that it is almost not
radioactive. DU is safe to handle, but don't eat it because it is a
chemical poison. Heavy metals in general are poisons, radioactive
or not. DU has other uses that depend on its high density.

Page 70: Natural background radiation where the author happens
to be at the time is higher than what people living at Chernobyl are
getting. The US national average background radiation is 360
millirems/year.

Page 71: The natural background radiation in northeastern
Washington state is 1700 millirem/year.
The natural background radiation on the Zuni uplift is 500 to 700
millirem/year.
The natural background radiation in New Mexico is greater than the
calculated dose from the Three Mile Island meltdown, if you were
next to the reactor.
A chest x-ray gives you 10 millirem.

Page 72: The natural background radiation inside Grand Central
Station is 600 millirem/year because Grand Central Station is made
of granite. [ALL rocks are radioactive.]
The allowed exposure to the public from a nuclear power plant is
15 millirem/year.
A set of dental X-rays gives you 39 millirem.

Page 74: Smoking a pack and a half of cigarettes a day gives your
bronchial airways 1300 millirems/year according to the NCRP or
8000 millirems/year according to the National Academy of
Sciences.

Page 76: The cancer rate in New Mexico is much lower than the
national average but the natural background radiation is much
higher than average. The highest rates of cancer are around heavy
industry, chemical factories and petrochemical factories. [Benzene,
a petroleum distillate, is a very powerful carcinogen.]

Page 77: Natural gas contains radon, a radioactive gas.

Page 86: Among 80000 nuclear bomb survivors from Hiroshima
and Nagasaki, the cancer rate was only 6% higher than expected.
Radiation is very weak at causing cancer.

Page 90: At Chernobyl, only 13 to 30% of the reactor's 190 metric
tons of fuel evaporated. .13X190=24.7 tons.
.3X190=57 tons. [Much lower than the previous estimate of 200
tons, and trivial compared to what coal fired power plants give
you.]

Page 98: There is a table of millirems per year from the
background in a list of inhabited places. Here are some of them.
Chernobyl: 490 millirem/year
Guarapari, Brazil: 3700 millirem/year
Tamil Nadu, India: 5300 millirem/year
Ramsar, Iran: 8900 to 13200 millirem/year
Zero excess cancer deaths are recorded. All of the above readings
are natural except for Chernobyl.

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Wow! Check out this article....
Posted by: jstepp590 on Nov 4, 2008 6:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is an article well worth reading for anyone interested in this issue.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/166859

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