COMMENTS: 61
Republicans Allege McCain Covered Up His Collaboration with the North Vietnamese While a POW
September 21, 2008 |
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The video raises probing questions about the 2008 Republican presidential nominee's war record, especially after McCain made his captivity a major part of his qualifications for the presidency at the Republican National Convention. In 2004, the GOP focused on Democratic nominee John Kerry's war record to criticize his candidacy.
To date, the video has been posted on a handful of blogs but has been ignored by the mainstream media. While it features Republican stalwarts on POW/MIA issues, it also suggests that McCain's war records at the Pentagon and in North Vietnam would reveal potentially very controversial details about the GOP's presidential candidate.
The nearly eight-minute video is posted on YouTube under "Vietnam Veterans Against McCain." It begins with the title, "1992 Senate Select Committee on POW/MIAs," and features ex-Sen. Bob Smith (R-NH), Rep. Robert Dornan (R-CA), senate staffers Tracy Usry, James Lucier, and military family members Lynn O'Shea, of the National Alliance of Families and retired Army Cpl. Bob Dumas, whose brother was a POW lost in the Korean War, and Joseph Douglass, Jr., author of Betrayed, about America's missing POWs. The video has no author credits.
The footage begins with Douglass, Usry, O'Shea and Smith all saying that McCain worked to kill legislation that would have opened the Pentagon's classified archive of POW/MIA files. "Many, many documents were held back for no reason," former Sen. Smith said. Dorman said legislation that passed the House with no opposing votes was single-handedly blocked in the Senate by McCain. "On the Senate side, we had one person standing in the way," Dornan said, referring to McCain.
Dumas then gave the reason why - the Pentagon's records would reveal McCain had collaborated with the Vietnamese. "He didn't want nobody to check his background because a lot of POWs who were with him in the camp said he was a collaborator with the enemy," Dumas said. "He gave the enemy information they wanted."
Lucier, identified as a former U.S. Senate Chief of Staff, said "we do know that when he was over there, he cooperated with Communist news services in giving interviews that were not flattering to the United States." Usry, identified as U.S. Senate Minority Staff former chief investigator, said "information shows that he made over 32 tapes of propaganda for the Vietnamese government."
Dornan said there were transcripts of other POWs reacting to McCain's false statements, saying, "Oh my God, is that Admiral McCain's son Is that the admiral's son? Is that Johnny, telling us that our principle targets are schools, orphanages, hospitals, temples, churches? That was Jane Fonda's line." Dornan said those transcripts are in war museums in North Vietnam, where McCain, as a senator, pressured the country not to release them or face opposition concerning normalization of relations with the United States.
"McCain could not have wanted those to turn up in the middle of a presidential race," the ex-congressman said. "He knows that. I know that. And a few other people know that. That's why he was against Bob Dole's legislation."
Dornan then offered another interesting explanation why McCain refused an offer by the North Vietnamese to be released. Dornan said those released first were collaborators, which would have ended McCain's military career and hurt the Navy, where his father commanded the Pacific fleet.
"Nobody takes that one step beyond that," Dornan said, speaking of McCain's refusal to be released. "If Admiral John McCain's son had accepted this princely status and come home in 1967, while others sat there for five years, what would the Navy have done with the son of an admiral who opted to get special treatment and come home? No Navy career. No House seat. No Senate seat. It would have been the end of his career."
Steven Rosenfeld is a Senior Fellow at AlterNet.org, where he reports on elections from a voting rights perspective. His books include Count My Vote: A Citizen's Guide to Voting (AlterNet Books, 2008), What Happened in Ohio: A Documentary Record of Theft and Fraud in the 2004 Election (The New Press, 2006), and Making History in Vermont: The Election of a Socialist to Congress (Hollowbrook Publishing, 1992). An award-winning journalist, he has been a staff reporter at National Public Radio, Monitor Radio, TomPaine.com, and at daily and weekly newspapers in Vermont.
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20th Century Benedict Arnold - Which 'Country First', Mac???
Posted by: Purple Girl on Sep 21, 2008 4:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Purple Girl on Sep 21, 2008 4:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This story is Not a surprise, but is certianly MSM News Worthy.
Macs CLAIMED Stance on EVERY issue appears to waver depending on which way the wind blows.
When unsure which Side he'll take he waits until Sen Obama makes a speech on the Topic, then steals the concepts and claims them for his Own. This is the reason he is unable to give any Speech without a tellaprompter, and is easily confused should it fail- He has NO personal convictions, perspective Or integrity.
He was never qualified to be granted Graduation from the Acedemy- not only conduct unbecoming an Officer, and unremarkable grades ( apparently he could always SEE the other guys answers during tests), Bu the also could not fly a plane Proefficiently
How much does Mac actually HATE America...Enough to name a Unqualified Ignorant Person as his VP during the Worst time n our Nations history.
throughout his Senatorial era he has not only aided in Addicting Americans to Oil from unsavvory foreign countries, but has stood lookout while the Financial Criminals Raid our Assets and Treasures.
I not only question is Patriotism from 40 yrs ago- I question his Patriotism For the Last 40 Years!
Macs CLAIMED Stance on EVERY issue appears to waver depending on which way the wind blows.
When unsure which Side he'll take he waits until Sen Obama makes a speech on the Topic, then steals the concepts and claims them for his Own. This is the reason he is unable to give any Speech without a tellaprompter, and is easily confused should it fail- He has NO personal convictions, perspective Or integrity.
He was never qualified to be granted Graduation from the Acedemy- not only conduct unbecoming an Officer, and unremarkable grades ( apparently he could always SEE the other guys answers during tests), Bu the also could not fly a plane Proefficiently
How much does Mac actually HATE America...Enough to name a Unqualified Ignorant Person as his VP during the Worst time n our Nations history.
throughout his Senatorial era he has not only aided in Addicting Americans to Oil from unsavvory foreign countries, but has stood lookout while the Financial Criminals Raid our Assets and Treasures.
I not only question is Patriotism from 40 yrs ago- I question his Patriotism For the Last 40 Years!
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» After all that, how can you question McCain's patriotism?
Posted by: LMNOP
» For wider readership, LMNOP, please repost your excellent comment on this thread.
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin
» RE: 20th Century Benedict Arnold - Which 'Country First', Mac???Know idea but I know someone ...
Posted by: mahembar
Comments are closed-
Every bad thing McCain has done has been hidden this time
Posted by: itzamirakul on Sep 21, 2008 5:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: itzamirakul on Sep 21, 2008 5:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The last time he ran for President, Bush et al spread the word about all of the weaknesses and treasonous acts of McCain and even invented a few lies to boot. What makes the Republicans who voted against McCain last time think that he is different and more suited to be President this time?
I would like to see a comprehensive list of all of his misdeeds like the Keating Five and the collaboration with enemies if anyone can direct me to same.
I would like to see a comprehensive list of all of his misdeeds like the Keating Five and the collaboration with enemies if anyone can direct me to same.
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» RE: very bad thing McCain has done has been hidden this time
Posted by: ntsnews
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X-POLYGAMIST WIFE in ARIZONA
Posted by: X-POLYGAMIST WIFE on Sep 21, 2008 6:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: X-POLYGAMIST WIFE on Sep 21, 2008 6:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What qualifies McShame to be president when he can't even clean up polygamist thugs in Colorado City, Arizona, headquarters to infamous FLDS profit Warren Jeffs and his pedophile cronies.
LET MY PEOPLE GO!
BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM
LET MY PEOPLE GO!
BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM
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No surprise. But let's put this in relation to Mccain's 100 year in Iraq plan.
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 21, 2008 6:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 21, 2008 6:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The guy is nothing but a fringe lunatic who says or at least lies about him suffering and yet wants to force everyone else to suffer. That's right. No good education or jobs. Just keep going to endless wars and let the country rot. I'd like to see the the Obama/Biden campaign frame it on that note.
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Songbird McCain is finally caged
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 21, 2008 6:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 21, 2008 6:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The following text was copied form the nonprofit Web site, www.UnfitMcCain.com.
In McCain’s 1999 autobiography, Faith of My Fathers, he admitted to smoking cigarettes provided him by his captors, a violation of the Code of Conduct for U.S. prisoners of war. It is reasonable to assume the North Vietnamese weren’t aware he was addicted to nicotine. Thus, if McCain, a two-packs a day smoker, had initially refused the tobacco favor, nothing would’ve been said or inferred.
On the other hand, when he took that first puff, his captors knew instantly McCain had a weakness that could make him more vulnerable to disclosing military secrets during interrogations, which he did.
In return for medical treatment at a civilian hospital, a privilege never granted to other injured POWs, McCain reportedly told NVA interrogators the name of his aircraft carrier, how many Navy pilots had been lost, the number of planes in his flight formation, tactics used during bomb runs and the location of rescue ships in the Tonkin Gulf.
Because of the revelations which McCain repeated in propaganda radio broadcasts, the North Vietnamese contemptuously nicknamed him “Songbird.”
On June 4, 1969, a U.S. wire service story headlined, “PW Songbird Is Pilot Son of Admiral,” described one of McCain’s radio recordings: “Hanoi has aired a broadcast in which the pilot son of the United States commander in the Pacific, Adm. John McCain, purportedly admits to having bombed civilian targets in North Vietnam and praises medical treatment he has received since being taken prisoner.”
During his six-week hospital stay and for months afterwards, McCain continued to cooperate with NVA interrogators. He made more radio broadcasts for the enemy and met with foreign dignitaries, enjoying hot tea, coffee and cigarettes in posh settings while back at the Hanoi Hilton and other internment camps, his fellow POWs struggled to stay alive.
In one case, while meeting with Cuban journalist Fernando Barral in 1970, after McCain was no longer being physically abused by his captors, he voluntarily spoke in Spanish, even though he was obligated as an American POW to be evasive during their conversation. Had McCain feigned ignorance of Barral's native language, the one-hour interview, which North Vietnam exploited for propaganda purposes, might not have lasted five minutes.
Although McCain claimed he didn’t discuss military matters with Barral, the Hanoi Hilton's U.S. commander, SRO Jeremiah Denton, later issued an order forbidding POWs to be interviewed by visitors.
Said McCain on page 305 of Faith of My Fathers “[Denton's] decision was a sound one, even though it deprived me of further opportunities to demonstrate my psychic equilibrium… not to mention
the [loss of] extra cigarettes and coffee."
Also in his autobio, while admitting to accepting special favors from the enemy -- i.e. drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes -- McCain conveniently omitted the fact he had conversed with Barral in Spanish, a more serious Code of Conduct violation.
End of UnfitMcCain.com extract. To learn about other facts regarding McCain's REAL POW experience,
click on: The truth about Songbird McCain
In McCain’s 1999 autobiography, Faith of My Fathers, he admitted to smoking cigarettes provided him by his captors, a violation of the Code of Conduct for U.S. prisoners of war. It is reasonable to assume the North Vietnamese weren’t aware he was addicted to nicotine. Thus, if McCain, a two-packs a day smoker, had initially refused the tobacco favor, nothing would’ve been said or inferred.
On the other hand, when he took that first puff, his captors knew instantly McCain had a weakness that could make him more vulnerable to disclosing military secrets during interrogations, which he did.
In return for medical treatment at a civilian hospital, a privilege never granted to other injured POWs, McCain reportedly told NVA interrogators the name of his aircraft carrier, how many Navy pilots had been lost, the number of planes in his flight formation, tactics used during bomb runs and the location of rescue ships in the Tonkin Gulf.
Because of the revelations which McCain repeated in propaganda radio broadcasts, the North Vietnamese contemptuously nicknamed him “Songbird.”
On June 4, 1969, a U.S. wire service story headlined, “PW Songbird Is Pilot Son of Admiral,” described one of McCain’s radio recordings: “Hanoi has aired a broadcast in which the pilot son of the United States commander in the Pacific, Adm. John McCain, purportedly admits to having bombed civilian targets in North Vietnam and praises medical treatment he has received since being taken prisoner.”
During his six-week hospital stay and for months afterwards, McCain continued to cooperate with NVA interrogators. He made more radio broadcasts for the enemy and met with foreign dignitaries, enjoying hot tea, coffee and cigarettes in posh settings while back at the Hanoi Hilton and other internment camps, his fellow POWs struggled to stay alive.
In one case, while meeting with Cuban journalist Fernando Barral in 1970, after McCain was no longer being physically abused by his captors, he voluntarily spoke in Spanish, even though he was obligated as an American POW to be evasive during their conversation. Had McCain feigned ignorance of Barral's native language, the one-hour interview, which North Vietnam exploited for propaganda purposes, might not have lasted five minutes.
Although McCain claimed he didn’t discuss military matters with Barral, the Hanoi Hilton's U.S. commander, SRO Jeremiah Denton, later issued an order forbidding POWs to be interviewed by visitors.
Said McCain on page 305 of Faith of My Fathers “[Denton's] decision was a sound one, even though it deprived me of further opportunities to demonstrate my psychic equilibrium… not to mention
the [loss of] extra cigarettes and coffee."
Also in his autobio, while admitting to accepting special favors from the enemy -- i.e. drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes -- McCain conveniently omitted the fact he had conversed with Barral in Spanish, a more serious Code of Conduct violation.
End of UnfitMcCain.com extract. To learn about other facts regarding McCain's REAL POW experience,
click on: The truth about Songbird McCain
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» HUGH Scott
Posted by: Karl.Ben
» RE: HUGH Scott
Posted by: Dboy
» Does the truth include his infidelity with a rich young woman, or her drug addiction with illegal
Posted by: Beck
» And don't forget Cindy's liquor company selling fruit-flavored "alcopops" to teenaged drinkers.
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin
» RE: Songbird McCain is finally caged I don't think so
Posted by: mahembar
Comments are closed-
How Obama can defeat McCain without attacking his POW record
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 21, 2008 7:07 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 21, 2008 7:07 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
McCain's Achilles heel is his advanced age, not what happened in North Vietnam 40 years ago.
In article published in June 2008 by Military.com, former POW Phillip Butler, a Navy pilot and U.S. Naval Academy graduate who spent more than eight years in North Vietnam as a prisoner of war, explained why he would not support McCain for the presidency.
"Most of us who survived that experience [being a POW] are now in our late 60’s and 70’s. Sadly, we have died and are dying off at a greater rate than our non-POW contemporaries. We experienced injuries and malnutrition that are coming home to roost. So I believe John’s age (71) and survival expectation are not good for being elected to serve as our President for four or more years."
There are many Republicans who share Butler's concerns, as do the 30% of white Democrats who won't vote for Obama because he's black (according to a recent Yahoo poll). But no matter how well he argues his case, those people will NEVER support him. So Barack must get them to vote AGAINST McCain or not vote at all.
That goal can be accomplished with a simple slogan: "John McCain -- OLD Ideas, OLD Solutions."
Notice I never mentioned his age (72), but the message comes through loud and clear. And should the GOP complain about the inference, it will only bolster suspicions that McCain's best days are behind him.
If you agree with my assessment, tell your friends and family members while there's still time to defeat McCain -- a pandering politician who truly has old ideas, old solutions.
John McCain --OLD Ideas, OLD Solutions
In article published in June 2008 by Military.com, former POW Phillip Butler, a Navy pilot and U.S. Naval Academy graduate who spent more than eight years in North Vietnam as a prisoner of war, explained why he would not support McCain for the presidency.
"Most of us who survived that experience [being a POW] are now in our late 60’s and 70’s. Sadly, we have died and are dying off at a greater rate than our non-POW contemporaries. We experienced injuries and malnutrition that are coming home to roost. So I believe John’s age (71) and survival expectation are not good for being elected to serve as our President for four or more years."
There are many Republicans who share Butler's concerns, as do the 30% of white Democrats who won't vote for Obama because he's black (according to a recent Yahoo poll). But no matter how well he argues his case, those people will NEVER support him. So Barack must get them to vote AGAINST McCain or not vote at all.
That goal can be accomplished with a simple slogan: "John McCain -- OLD Ideas, OLD Solutions."
Notice I never mentioned his age (72), but the message comes through loud and clear. And should the GOP complain about the inference, it will only bolster suspicions that McCain's best days are behind him.
If you agree with my assessment, tell your friends and family members while there's still time to defeat McCain -- a pandering politician who truly has old ideas, old solutions.
John McCain --OLD Ideas, OLD Solutions
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NONE OF THIS COMPARES
Posted by: _NH on Sep 21, 2008 8:22 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: _NH on Sep 21, 2008 8:22 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...to the completely despicable life led by that blatant racist Marxist nobody named Obama... nothing.
Democrats have the edge in that the press can take any old person who would not make a pimple on McCain's ass, and elevate him to God status, even after some of the sordid things in Obama's and his wife's past have been revealed.
I guess there is no bias on this website huh?
Democrats have the edge in that the press can take any old person who would not make a pimple on McCain's ass, and elevate him to God status, even after some of the sordid things in Obama's and his wife's past have been revealed.
I guess there is no bias on this website huh?
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» NH: Another sad, rove minion wannabe...
Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: What I find most intriguing about the Repressives is
Posted by: Plexius2
» RE: I agree. there is no sense in engaging the self-deluded. Or the scapegoaters.
Posted by: Adastra
» RE: NONE OF THIS COMPARES
Posted by: MindyB
» $ where your mouth is:
Posted by: Jeanne
» proof?
Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» RE: NONE OF THIS COMPARES to Comarde Bush
Posted by: left_libertarian
» RE: NONE OF THIS COMPARES
Posted by: mainspark
» RE: NONE OF THIS COMPARES
Posted by: hilaryuk
» RE: NONE OF THIS COMPARES
Posted by: patfr
Comments are closed-
Truth is what you want it to be......
Posted by: Karl.Ben on Sep 21, 2008 8:24 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Karl.Ben on Sep 21, 2008 8:24 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So now we're believing republicans??.. Too funny. I guess it all depends on the story one is telling, not if there is any truth behind it?
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» RE: Truth...However
Posted by: MindyB
» RE: Truth...However
Posted by: Karl.Ben
» RE: Truth...However
Posted by: patfr
» RE: Truth...However
Posted by: patfr
Comments are closed-
darkmark
Posted by: darkmark on Sep 21, 2008 9:23 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: darkmark on Sep 21, 2008 9:23 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
parents lie, teachers lie, police lie, preachers lie, judges lie, district attorneys lie, politicians lie. i can't blame a people with a poor education for where we are and where we're going. Diogenes wandered around ancient Greece carrying a lantern and searching for an honest man. if he were alive today he would still be searching.
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» RE: darkmark
Posted by: kiatoa
» RE: I don't lie
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: darkmark
Posted by: mainspark
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Why wouldn't Vietnam release those tapes/transcripts NOW?
Posted by: ralphnovy on Sep 21, 2008 10:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: ralphnovy on Sep 21, 2008 10:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Dornan said those transcripts are in war museums in North Vietnam, where McCain, as a senator, pressured the country not to release them or face opposition concerning normalization of relations with the United States."
Anybody know WHEN this was, exactly?
Moreover, anybody know of a reason Vietnam wouldn't release both the tapes AND the transcripts NOW?
THAT would be a fitting "October Surprise," eh? "John 'Songbird' McCain" -- courtesy of the people whom he bombed, bombed, bombed.
Anybody know WHEN this was, exactly?
Moreover, anybody know of a reason Vietnam wouldn't release both the tapes AND the transcripts NOW?
THAT would be a fitting "October Surprise," eh? "John 'Songbird' McCain" -- courtesy of the people whom he bombed, bombed, bombed.
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» RE: Why wouldn't Vietnam release those tapes/transcripts NOW?
Posted by: IntnsRed
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McCain's POWs in Arizona
Posted by: mjinterest on Sep 21, 2008 11:29 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: mjinterest on Sep 21, 2008 11:29 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
McCain was a POW for 5 years, but 10,000 people here in AZ have been prisoners for 8 generations. Polygamy thrives in Colorado City, Arizona (McCain's home state) where thousands of American families (10,000 people) are systematically stripped of their democratic rights and women & children are abused. John McCain hasn't lifted a finger to stop it. What qualifies McCain to be president when he can't even clean up the Taliban in his own backyard? Take a look at the trailer for the recent alarming documentary, BANKING ON HEAVEN. http://www.bankingonheaven.com
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» RE: McCain's POWs in Arizona
Posted by: Dboy
» RE: McCain's POWs in Arizona
Posted by: Joni50
» RE: Polygamy isn't the problem. Coersion is.
Posted by: Plexius2
» RE: Polygamy isn't the problem. Coersion is.
Posted by: Lauren
Comments are closed-
No creator, no cred!
Posted by: Scarabus on Sep 21, 2008 2:46 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Scarabus on Sep 21, 2008 2:46 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This could be straight stuff--rumors have circulated for decades. Nevertheless, if you don't sign your work, then you have no credibility. Period. Even if you do sign it, you can't base your case on memory. Where's the documentation? No documentation, no cred.
Yeah, I know. McCain is alleged to have made sure the documentation of his behavior in Hanoi was buried, so it's unsurprising that documentation of that is lacking. Duh! (Philip Butler does make an excellent case, of course.) However, there should be evidence beyond he said/she said for what he did in 1992.
Without that, I won't post this on my blog. And without that, AlterNet should not have presented this way. Yeah, as Shakespeare's character says, "The truth will out." But the Swiftboater's for Truth were "outing" lies, not truths. We've seen enough of that in American politics.
Yeah, I know. McCain is alleged to have made sure the documentation of his behavior in Hanoi was buried, so it's unsurprising that documentation of that is lacking. Duh! (Philip Butler does make an excellent case, of course.) However, there should be evidence beyond he said/she said for what he did in 1992.
Without that, I won't post this on my blog. And without that, AlterNet should not have presented this way. Yeah, as Shakespeare's character says, "The truth will out." But the Swiftboater's for Truth were "outing" lies, not truths. We've seen enough of that in American politics.
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» RE: No creator, no cred!
Posted by: John Edward
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Flttestengr.
Posted by: bflove on Sep 21, 2008 3:01 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: bflove on Sep 21, 2008 3:01 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not just McCain's age; it's his health. McCain has refused to openly release his medical records without serious restrictions. Last May he released 1,173 pages of medical records for only three hours to a handful of journalists, probably mostly Fox people. The records covered only the last eight years and no copies or phone calls were allowed. Again, he is hiding important information that the voters need to know. Sound familar? Bush would not discuss his alcoholic past.
1,173 pages of medical history in eight years is a huge volume. He is a sick man! Little is known. He has had four melanomas removed, the most serious form of cancer. The last was in 2002. He reportedly has stage II cancer with a 10 year survival rate (to 2012) of 60%. Another report says he had a lympth node removed and that is stage III with a lower survival rate. My boss died of a melanoma on his scalp four months after it was discovered.
Another report says he is being treated for high cholesterol and takes six kidney medications. He also had a growth removed(mostly) from his left jaw.
I am going to do the Senator a favor and not vote for him to give him a better chance to fight off his serious illness.
1,173 pages of medical history in eight years is a huge volume. He is a sick man! Little is known. He has had four melanomas removed, the most serious form of cancer. The last was in 2002. He reportedly has stage II cancer with a 10 year survival rate (to 2012) of 60%. Another report says he had a lympth node removed and that is stage III with a lower survival rate. My boss died of a melanoma on his scalp four months after it was discovered.
Another report says he is being treated for high cholesterol and takes six kidney medications. He also had a growth removed(mostly) from his left jaw.
I am going to do the Senator a favor and not vote for him to give him a better chance to fight off his serious illness.
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» RE: Flttestengr.
Posted by: mahembar
Comments are closed-
Additional information...
Posted by: IntnsRed on Sep 21, 2008 3:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: IntnsRed on Sep 21, 2008 3:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Nation magazine is running an article on how McCain may be covering up for the fact that the US did leave POWs in Vietnam so the US could avoid paying the reparations that the US promised Vietnam.
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» Apologies: my description is poorly worded...
Posted by: IntnsRed
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Twelfth Hour Scrutiny
Posted by: disfasia on Sep 21, 2008 6:15 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: disfasia on Sep 21, 2008 6:15 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One thing I dislike more than private campaign financing is the scrutiny of candidate's pasts only after already public officials have announced their bid for office. We saw this attack from the right with Kerry and I find Rosenfeld's argument just as problematic. I think if there were valid facts about McCain's career or time as a POW, there have been over thirty years to dispell lies, eek out the truth. I don't find any facts in this report and this is deeply disturbing to me. I am growing consistantly disappointed by AlterNet's inability to publish stories that are factual, not based on sexist tropes (ie. the plethora of stories about Palin as a sex object or as a Barbie doll) and not based on baiting a candidate who might, for personal reasons which are for him alone to decide, wish to keep those years of terror private. Betancourt, if you recall, is not talking about the painful detail of her captivity-- because it was painful! John McCain, though I do not believe in military action, nor do I agree with the terrorism in Viet Nam, was captured and lived many years that I am certain he does not wish to remember nor have rehashed in public "memory". The least the media can do without compromising any ethics of transparency is to allow McCain's pain to remain private.
I am proudly voting for Ralph Nader and have spent hours this past week writing on blogs and letters to editors about the extreme lack of principals in reporting on Republicans. I am quite disturbed by the quality of articles I am seeing here. It is as if I have entered a time machine and it is four years ago and the media, instead of smearing Democrat candidates for trivial and similar issues, is now taking up this very same game in smearing Republican candidates with arguments that have absolutely nothing to do with the issues at hand. Four years ago this very media forum published constant complaints about the right-wing spin on the elections. Why not lead by example and stop putting a spin and cover the fact pertaining directly to the this presidential election. Let's see stories about both candidates ridiculous plans to "save" the economy; both candidates zeal for faith-based programs; and their desire to continue the "wars" on terror (or as I say "terrorism on terror").
Is it really so hard to talk about the issues?
I am proudly voting for Ralph Nader and have spent hours this past week writing on blogs and letters to editors about the extreme lack of principals in reporting on Republicans. I am quite disturbed by the quality of articles I am seeing here. It is as if I have entered a time machine and it is four years ago and the media, instead of smearing Democrat candidates for trivial and similar issues, is now taking up this very same game in smearing Republican candidates with arguments that have absolutely nothing to do with the issues at hand. Four years ago this very media forum published constant complaints about the right-wing spin on the elections. Why not lead by example and stop putting a spin and cover the fact pertaining directly to the this presidential election. Let's see stories about both candidates ridiculous plans to "save" the economy; both candidates zeal for faith-based programs; and their desire to continue the "wars" on terror (or as I say "terrorism on terror").
Is it really so hard to talk about the issues?
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» RE: Twelfth Hour Scrutiny - quite right.
Posted by: mahembar
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McCains POW record
Posted by: John Edward on Sep 21, 2008 6:42 PM
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Posted by: John Edward on Sep 21, 2008 6:42 PM
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He was shot down on Oct. 26 1967. 3 or 4 days later he agreed to give military information for hospital treatment. He was first quoted in the Hanoi Press on Nov. 9 and his first radio broadcast was Nov 11. He made a total of 32 tapes over three years of which 6 are available as transcripts at the web site of Vietnam Vets Against McCain. The six transcripts include both the Nov 9 and Nov ll incidents. His nickname among the N Viets. was "Songbird" based on his rapid compliance. On one of the transcripts, mentioned above, someone wrote in the margin, "He sang to the French also." All torture of the POWs ended at the death of Ho Chi Minh in late 1969. Since his cooperation started early and lasted beyond the torture there is only a short window for torture. It is unreasonable to think he would cooperate if torture continued. His POW story has a lot of truthiness appeal but no basis in fact. Following his release his behavior was suspect enough that he was not promoted, as was the usual practice. He had no chance of becoming an admiral and resigned shortly after the death of his father. It is somewhat unfair to refer to him as a reverse ace, since one of his 5 lost planes was the result of an accident involving getting shot by another plane and of course another was the fifth lost as a result of antiaircraft fire. So we have another failed pilot with father issues running for President. Remember how well that turned out last time?
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» RE: McCains POW record
Posted by: mahembar
» RE: McCains POW record
Posted by: John Edward
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A pacifist view
Posted by: PaulK on Sep 21, 2008 7:33 PM
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Posted by: PaulK on Sep 21, 2008 7:33 PM
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Many, many soldiers take actions in war that they are ashamed of. Some kill people and are horrified. For others, parts of their psyches go stone cold for the rest of their lives. Some are grief-stricken for their buddies that got killed or mutilated, asking, why wasn't it me. Numbers of vets seem to wind up on drugs lately, and numbers commit suicide lately.
Some are captured. Some, as in the book 1984, cough up both their information and their spirits under direct torture, under the threat of torture or under living conditions that constitute torture.
As a pacifist, I think that good citizenship in the face of anti-democratic pressure is heroism. It doesn't matter to me which government applies such pressure, your own or someone else's. So, soldiers can be heroes if they consciously defend democracy as citizens, or at other times they can be ordinary wimps who only wanted good cushy careers and got caught in a stupid war.
Why did Senator McCain originally go to West Point? First he got himself lined up for a career on the back lines, and second he avoided the draft. Did he show citizenship in graduating in the bottommost 1% of his class at West Point? No, he was a royal goofup, but his father was an admiral so he got a mulligan.
So the messup plebe then got a job as a pilot on a carrier where he could sleep safely at night. He got shot down, found himself tossed in a cell, and was released at the end of the war. I'm still looking for any great personal citizenship in the face of corruption. I see an innocent guy that got caught up in something big and dangerous. I don't really care whether he sang or not. I feel sorry for the guys locked up in the zoo, but I see little enough "heroism" either way once people become inmates.
Then McCain got out. He helped himself all the rest of his life and called that citizenship.
Some are captured. Some, as in the book 1984, cough up both their information and their spirits under direct torture, under the threat of torture or under living conditions that constitute torture.
As a pacifist, I think that good citizenship in the face of anti-democratic pressure is heroism. It doesn't matter to me which government applies such pressure, your own or someone else's. So, soldiers can be heroes if they consciously defend democracy as citizens, or at other times they can be ordinary wimps who only wanted good cushy careers and got caught in a stupid war.
Why did Senator McCain originally go to West Point? First he got himself lined up for a career on the back lines, and second he avoided the draft. Did he show citizenship in graduating in the bottommost 1% of his class at West Point? No, he was a royal goofup, but his father was an admiral so he got a mulligan.
So the messup plebe then got a job as a pilot on a carrier where he could sleep safely at night. He got shot down, found himself tossed in a cell, and was released at the end of the war. I'm still looking for any great personal citizenship in the face of corruption. I see an innocent guy that got caught up in something big and dangerous. I don't really care whether he sang or not. I feel sorry for the guys locked up in the zoo, but I see little enough "heroism" either way once people become inmates.
Then McCain got out. He helped himself all the rest of his life and called that citizenship.
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Talking Point
Posted by: Direct Democracy on Sep 21, 2008 8:08 PM
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Posted by: Direct Democracy on Sep 21, 2008 8:08 PM
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Noun, Verb, “Tweety” McCain was a Viet Cong collaborator.
http://www.counterpunch.org/valentine06132008.html
FREE AMERICA
REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY
http://www.counterpunch.org/valentine06132008.html
FREE AMERICA
REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY
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Proposed new slogan for Obama TV ads
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 21, 2008 8:32 PM
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Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 21, 2008 8:32 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
John McCain -- OLD ideas, OLD solutions
If you like the slogan, contact the Democratic National Committee with this link -- Contact DNC -- then copy & paste the text below into the Question box. (NOTE: the link works slowly)
To help Senator Obama win in November, please use the following slogan in his TV ads: "John McCain -- OLD ideas, OLD solutions"
If you like the slogan, contact the Democratic National Committee with this link -- Contact DNC -- then copy & paste the text below into the Question box. (NOTE: the link works slowly)
To help Senator Obama win in November, please use the following slogan in his TV ads: "John McCain -- OLD ideas, OLD solutions"
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Psycho Dornan
Posted by: john2007 on Sep 21, 2008 8:50 PM
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Posted by: john2007 on Sep 21, 2008 8:50 PM
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I would love to believe this video. If it can be corroborated by credible sources it'll be instant death for the McCain campaign. Unfortunately, the testimony of Bob Dornan is like the kiss of death; he is a notorious wingnut who accuses everyone of everything. He was too much even for the ultra conservative Orange County, that's why they dumped his ass from the House of Representatives.
Still, the idea of McCain engineering a cover-up of his own POW records is tantalizing. They will probably claim that they won't dignify the smear by answering it, but with six weeks to go they will have to offer some kind of defense. Cover-ups are so deadly.
Still, the idea of McCain engineering a cover-up of his own POW records is tantalizing. They will probably claim that they won't dignify the smear by answering it, but with six weeks to go they will have to offer some kind of defense. Cover-ups are so deadly.
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Counterpunch story on McCain selling out USA - eneny collaborator
Posted by: bfh369 on Sep 21, 2008 9:39 PM
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Posted by: bfh369 on Sep 21, 2008 9:39 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alexander Cockburn:McCain, What Really Happened When He Was a POW?
CounterPunch Diary. "Hero" John McCain as Phony and Collaborator: What Really Happened When He Was a POW? By ALEXANDER COCKBURN. John McCain’s been getting ...
www.counterpunch.org/cockburn04192008.html -
CounterPunch Diary. "Hero" John McCain as Phony and Collaborator: What Really Happened When He Was a POW? By ALEXANDER COCKBURN. John McCain’s been getting ...
www.counterpunch.org/cockburn04192008.html -
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Funny that this is comingg from anti-gay conservative Dornan
Posted by: jeffreytaos on Sep 22, 2008 4:04 AM
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Posted by: jeffreytaos on Sep 22, 2008 4:04 AM
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Dornan, the same one who went after gays in California?????Why would this conservative have chosen to pinpoint McCain at that time, unless he believed that McCain was useless to the conservative agenda. Now McCain has tried to put himself up as leader of he conservative agenda. Where is Dornan now? Are we talking about the same man?????
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McCain: The Manchurian Candidate
Posted by: left_libertarian on Sep 22, 2008 5:03 AM
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Posted by: left_libertarian on Sep 22, 2008 5:03 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He sold his soul to the commies to help bring down America and our liberties.
For the illegal Iraq War - check
For the 'patriot act.' stripping away more of our liberties- check
For FISA - check
Wants a socialistic solution to bankrupt Wall St firms - check
I smell a commie and it's McCain.
For the illegal Iraq War - check
For the 'patriot act.' stripping away more of our liberties- check
For FISA - check
Wants a socialistic solution to bankrupt Wall St firms - check
I smell a commie and it's McCain.
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Alternet Comments:
» After all that, how can you question McCain's patriotism?
Posted by: LMNOP
» For wider readership, LMNOP, please repost your excellent comment on this thread.
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin
» RE: 20th Century Benedict Arnold - Which 'Country First', Mac???Know idea but I know someone ...
Posted by: mahembar
» RE: very bad thing McCain has done has been hidden this time
Posted by: ntsnews
» HUGH Scott
Posted by: Karl.Ben
» RE: HUGH Scott
Posted by: Dboy
» Does the truth include his infidelity with a rich young woman, or her drug addiction with illegal
Posted by: Beck
» And don't forget Cindy's liquor company selling fruit-flavored "alcopops" to teenaged drinkers.
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin
» RE: Songbird McCain is finally caged I don't think so
Posted by: mahembar
» NH: Another sad, rove minion wannabe...
Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: What I find most intriguing about the Repressives is
Posted by: Plexius2
» RE: I agree. there is no sense in engaging the self-deluded. Or the scapegoaters.
Posted by: Adastra
» RE: NONE OF THIS COMPARES
Posted by: MindyB
» $ where your mouth is:
Posted by: Jeanne
» proof?
Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» RE: NONE OF THIS COMPARES to Comarde Bush
Posted by: left_libertarian
» RE: NONE OF THIS COMPARES
Posted by: mainspark
» RE: NONE OF THIS COMPARES
Posted by: hilaryuk
» RE: NONE OF THIS COMPARES
Posted by: patfr
» RE: Truth...However
Posted by: MindyB
» RE: Truth...However
Posted by: Karl.Ben
» RE: Truth...However
Posted by: patfr
» RE: Truth...However
Posted by: patfr
» RE: darkmark
Posted by: kiatoa
» RE: I don't lie
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: darkmark
Posted by: mainspark
» RE: Why wouldn't Vietnam release those tapes/transcripts NOW?
Posted by: IntnsRed
» RE: McCain's POWs in Arizona
Posted by: Dboy
» RE: McCain's POWs in Arizona
Posted by: Joni50
» RE: Polygamy isn't the problem. Coersion is.
Posted by: Plexius2
» RE: Polygamy isn't the problem. Coersion is.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: No creator, no cred!
Posted by: John Edward
» RE: Flttestengr.
Posted by: mahembar
» Apologies: my description is poorly worded...
Posted by: IntnsRed
» RE: Twelfth Hour Scrutiny - quite right.
Posted by: mahembar
» RE: McCains POW record
Posted by: mahembar
» RE: McCains POW record
Posted by: John Edward
Comments are closed-
20th Century Benedict Arnold - Which 'Country First', Mac???
Posted by: Purple Girl on Sep 21, 2008 4:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Purple Girl on Sep 21, 2008 4:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This story is Not a surprise, but is certianly MSM News Worthy.
Macs CLAIMED Stance on EVERY issue appears to waver depending on which way the wind blows.
When unsure which Side he'll take he waits until Sen Obama makes a speech on the Topic, then steals the concepts and claims them for his Own. This is the reason he is unable to give any Speech without a tellaprompter, and is easily confused should it fail- He has NO personal convictions, perspective Or integrity.
He was never qualified to be granted Graduation from the Acedemy- not only conduct unbecoming an Officer, and unremarkable grades ( apparently he could always SEE the other guys answers during tests), Bu the also could not fly a plane Proefficiently
How much does Mac actually HATE America...Enough to name a Unqualified Ignorant Person as his VP during the Worst time n our Nations history.
throughout his Senatorial era he has not only aided in Addicting Americans to Oil from unsavvory foreign countries, but has stood lookout while the Financial Criminals Raid our Assets and Treasures.
I not only question is Patriotism from 40 yrs ago- I question his Patriotism For the Last 40 Years!
Macs CLAIMED Stance on EVERY issue appears to waver depending on which way the wind blows.
When unsure which Side he'll take he waits until Sen Obama makes a speech on the Topic, then steals the concepts and claims them for his Own. This is the reason he is unable to give any Speech without a tellaprompter, and is easily confused should it fail- He has NO personal convictions, perspective Or integrity.
He was never qualified to be granted Graduation from the Acedemy- not only conduct unbecoming an Officer, and unremarkable grades ( apparently he could always SEE the other guys answers during tests), Bu the also could not fly a plane Proefficiently
How much does Mac actually HATE America...Enough to name a Unqualified Ignorant Person as his VP during the Worst time n our Nations history.
throughout his Senatorial era he has not only aided in Addicting Americans to Oil from unsavvory foreign countries, but has stood lookout while the Financial Criminals Raid our Assets and Treasures.
I not only question is Patriotism from 40 yrs ago- I question his Patriotism For the Last 40 Years!
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» After all that, how can you question McCain's patriotism?
Posted by: LMNOP
» For wider readership, LMNOP, please repost your excellent comment on this thread.
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin
» RE: 20th Century Benedict Arnold - Which 'Country First', Mac???Know idea but I know someone ...
Posted by: mahembar
Comments are closed-
Every bad thing McCain has done has been hidden this time
Posted by: itzamirakul on Sep 21, 2008 5:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: itzamirakul on Sep 21, 2008 5:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The last time he ran for President, Bush et al spread the word about all of the weaknesses and treasonous acts of McCain and even invented a few lies to boot. What makes the Republicans who voted against McCain last time think that he is different and more suited to be President this time?
I would like to see a comprehensive list of all of his misdeeds like the Keating Five and the collaboration with enemies if anyone can direct me to same.
I would like to see a comprehensive list of all of his misdeeds like the Keating Five and the collaboration with enemies if anyone can direct me to same.
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» RE: very bad thing McCain has done has been hidden this time
Posted by: ntsnews
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X-POLYGAMIST WIFE in ARIZONA
Posted by: X-POLYGAMIST WIFE on Sep 21, 2008 6:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: X-POLYGAMIST WIFE on Sep 21, 2008 6:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What qualifies McShame to be president when he can't even clean up polygamist thugs in Colorado City, Arizona, headquarters to infamous FLDS profit Warren Jeffs and his pedophile cronies.
LET MY PEOPLE GO!
BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM
LET MY PEOPLE GO!
BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM
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No surprise. But let's put this in relation to Mccain's 100 year in Iraq plan.
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 21, 2008 6:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 21, 2008 6:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The guy is nothing but a fringe lunatic who says or at least lies about him suffering and yet wants to force everyone else to suffer. That's right. No good education or jobs. Just keep going to endless wars and let the country rot. I'd like to see the the Obama/Biden campaign frame it on that note.
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Songbird McCain is finally caged
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 21, 2008 6:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 21, 2008 6:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The following text was copied form the nonprofit Web site, www.UnfitMcCain.com.
In McCain’s 1999 autobiography, Faith of My Fathers, he admitted to smoking cigarettes provided him by his captors, a violation of the Code of Conduct for U.S. prisoners of war. It is reasonable to assume the North Vietnamese weren’t aware he was addicted to nicotine. Thus, if McCain, a two-packs a day smoker, had initially refused the tobacco favor, nothing would’ve been said or inferred.
On the other hand, when he took that first puff, his captors knew instantly McCain had a weakness that could make him more vulnerable to disclosing military secrets during interrogations, which he did.
In return for medical treatment at a civilian hospital, a privilege never granted to other injured POWs, McCain reportedly told NVA interrogators the name of his aircraft carrier, how many Navy pilots had been lost, the number of planes in his flight formation, tactics used during bomb runs and the location of rescue ships in the Tonkin Gulf.
Because of the revelations which McCain repeated in propaganda radio broadcasts, the North Vietnamese contemptuously nicknamed him “Songbird.”
On June 4, 1969, a U.S. wire service story headlined, “PW Songbird Is Pilot Son of Admiral,” described one of McCain’s radio recordings: “Hanoi has aired a broadcast in which the pilot son of the United States commander in the Pacific, Adm. John McCain, purportedly admits to having bombed civilian targets in North Vietnam and praises medical treatment he has received since being taken prisoner.”
During his six-week hospital stay and for months afterwards, McCain continued to cooperate with NVA interrogators. He made more radio broadcasts for the enemy and met with foreign dignitaries, enjoying hot tea, coffee and cigarettes in posh settings while back at the Hanoi Hilton and other internment camps, his fellow POWs struggled to stay alive.
In one case, while meeting with Cuban journalist Fernando Barral in 1970, after McCain was no longer being physically abused by his captors, he voluntarily spoke in Spanish, even though he was obligated as an American POW to be evasive during their conversation. Had McCain feigned ignorance of Barral's native language, the one-hour interview, which North Vietnam exploited for propaganda purposes, might not have lasted five minutes.
Although McCain claimed he didn’t discuss military matters with Barral, the Hanoi Hilton's U.S. commander, SRO Jeremiah Denton, later issued an order forbidding POWs to be interviewed by visitors.
Said McCain on page 305 of Faith of My Fathers “[Denton's] decision was a sound one, even though it deprived me of further opportunities to demonstrate my psychic equilibrium… not to mention
the [loss of] extra cigarettes and coffee."
Also in his autobio, while admitting to accepting special favors from the enemy -- i.e. drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes -- McCain conveniently omitted the fact he had conversed with Barral in Spanish, a more serious Code of Conduct violation.
End of UnfitMcCain.com extract. To learn about other facts regarding McCain's REAL POW experience,
click on: The truth about Songbird McCain
In McCain’s 1999 autobiography, Faith of My Fathers, he admitted to smoking cigarettes provided him by his captors, a violation of the Code of Conduct for U.S. prisoners of war. It is reasonable to assume the North Vietnamese weren’t aware he was addicted to nicotine. Thus, if McCain, a two-packs a day smoker, had initially refused the tobacco favor, nothing would’ve been said or inferred.
On the other hand, when he took that first puff, his captors knew instantly McCain had a weakness that could make him more vulnerable to disclosing military secrets during interrogations, which he did.
In return for medical treatment at a civilian hospital, a privilege never granted to other injured POWs, McCain reportedly told NVA interrogators the name of his aircraft carrier, how many Navy pilots had been lost, the number of planes in his flight formation, tactics used during bomb runs and the location of rescue ships in the Tonkin Gulf.
Because of the revelations which McCain repeated in propaganda radio broadcasts, the North Vietnamese contemptuously nicknamed him “Songbird.”
On June 4, 1969, a U.S. wire service story headlined, “PW Songbird Is Pilot Son of Admiral,” described one of McCain’s radio recordings: “Hanoi has aired a broadcast in which the pilot son of the United States commander in the Pacific, Adm. John McCain, purportedly admits to having bombed civilian targets in North Vietnam and praises medical treatment he has received since being taken prisoner.”
During his six-week hospital stay and for months afterwards, McCain continued to cooperate with NVA interrogators. He made more radio broadcasts for the enemy and met with foreign dignitaries, enjoying hot tea, coffee and cigarettes in posh settings while back at the Hanoi Hilton and other internment camps, his fellow POWs struggled to stay alive.
In one case, while meeting with Cuban journalist Fernando Barral in 1970, after McCain was no longer being physically abused by his captors, he voluntarily spoke in Spanish, even though he was obligated as an American POW to be evasive during their conversation. Had McCain feigned ignorance of Barral's native language, the one-hour interview, which North Vietnam exploited for propaganda purposes, might not have lasted five minutes.
Although McCain claimed he didn’t discuss military matters with Barral, the Hanoi Hilton's U.S. commander, SRO Jeremiah Denton, later issued an order forbidding POWs to be interviewed by visitors.
Said McCain on page 305 of Faith of My Fathers “[Denton's] decision was a sound one, even though it deprived me of further opportunities to demonstrate my psychic equilibrium… not to mention
the [loss of] extra cigarettes and coffee."
Also in his autobio, while admitting to accepting special favors from the enemy -- i.e. drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes -- McCain conveniently omitted the fact he had conversed with Barral in Spanish, a more serious Code of Conduct violation.
End of UnfitMcCain.com extract. To learn about other facts regarding McCain's REAL POW experience,
click on: The truth about Songbird McCain
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» HUGH Scott
Posted by: Karl.Ben
» RE: HUGH Scott
Posted by: Dboy
» Does the truth include his infidelity with a rich young woman, or her drug addiction with illegal
Posted by: Beck
» And don't forget Cindy's liquor company selling fruit-flavored "alcopops" to teenaged drinkers.
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin
» RE: Songbird McCain is finally caged I don't think so
Posted by: mahembar
Comments are closed-
How Obama can defeat McCain without attacking his POW record
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 21, 2008 7:07 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 21, 2008 7:07 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
McCain's Achilles heel is his advanced age, not what happened in North Vietnam 40 years ago.
In article published in June 2008 by Military.com, former POW Phillip Butler, a Navy pilot and U.S. Naval Academy graduate who spent more than eight years in North Vietnam as a prisoner of war, explained why he would not support McCain for the presidency.
"Most of us who survived that experience [being a POW] are now in our late 60’s and 70’s. Sadly, we have died and are dying off at a greater rate than our non-POW contemporaries. We experienced injuries and malnutrition that are coming home to roost. So I believe John’s age (71) and survival expectation are not good for being elected to serve as our President for four or more years."
There are many Republicans who share Butler's concerns, as do the 30% of white Democrats who won't vote for Obama because he's black (according to a recent Yahoo poll). But no matter how well he argues his case, those people will NEVER support him. So Barack must get them to vote AGAINST McCain or not vote at all.
That goal can be accomplished with a simple slogan: "John McCain -- OLD Ideas, OLD Solutions."
Notice I never mentioned his age (72), but the message comes through loud and clear. And should the GOP complain about the inference, it will only bolster suspicions that McCain's best days are behind him.
If you agree with my assessment, tell your friends and family members while there's still time to defeat McCain -- a pandering politician who truly has old ideas, old solutions.
John McCain --OLD Ideas, OLD Solutions
In article published in June 2008 by Military.com, former POW Phillip Butler, a Navy pilot and U.S. Naval Academy graduate who spent more than eight years in North Vietnam as a prisoner of war, explained why he would not support McCain for the presidency.
"Most of us who survived that experience [being a POW] are now in our late 60’s and 70’s. Sadly, we have died and are dying off at a greater rate than our non-POW contemporaries. We experienced injuries and malnutrition that are coming home to roost. So I believe John’s age (71) and survival expectation are not good for being elected to serve as our President for four or more years."
There are many Republicans who share Butler's concerns, as do the 30% of white Democrats who won't vote for Obama because he's black (according to a recent Yahoo poll). But no matter how well he argues his case, those people will NEVER support him. So Barack must get them to vote AGAINST McCain or not vote at all.
That goal can be accomplished with a simple slogan: "John McCain -- OLD Ideas, OLD Solutions."
Notice I never mentioned his age (72), but the message comes through loud and clear. And should the GOP complain about the inference, it will only bolster suspicions that McCain's best days are behind him.
If you agree with my assessment, tell your friends and family members while there's still time to defeat McCain -- a pandering politician who truly has old ideas, old solutions.
John McCain --OLD Ideas, OLD Solutions
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NONE OF THIS COMPARES
Posted by: _NH on Sep 21, 2008 8:22 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: _NH on Sep 21, 2008 8:22 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...to the completely despicable life led by that blatant racist Marxist nobody named Obama... nothing.
Democrats have the edge in that the press can take any old person who would not make a pimple on McCain's ass, and elevate him to God status, even after some of the sordid things in Obama's and his wife's past have been revealed.
I guess there is no bias on this website huh?
Democrats have the edge in that the press can take any old person who would not make a pimple on McCain's ass, and elevate him to God status, even after some of the sordid things in Obama's and his wife's past have been revealed.
I guess there is no bias on this website huh?
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» NH: Another sad, rove minion wannabe...
Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: What I find most intriguing about the Repressives is
Posted by: Plexius2
» RE: I agree. there is no sense in engaging the self-deluded. Or the scapegoaters.
Posted by: Adastra
» RE: NONE OF THIS COMPARES
Posted by: MindyB
» $ where your mouth is:
Posted by: Jeanne
» proof?
Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» RE: NONE OF THIS COMPARES to Comarde Bush
Posted by: left_libertarian
» RE: NONE OF THIS COMPARES
Posted by: mainspark
» RE: NONE OF THIS COMPARES
Posted by: hilaryuk
» RE: NONE OF THIS COMPARES
Posted by: patfr
Comments are closed-
Truth is what you want it to be......
Posted by: Karl.Ben on Sep 21, 2008 8:24 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Karl.Ben on Sep 21, 2008 8:24 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So now we're believing republicans??.. Too funny. I guess it all depends on the story one is telling, not if there is any truth behind it?
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» RE: Truth...However
Posted by: MindyB
» RE: Truth...However
Posted by: Karl.Ben
» RE: Truth...However
Posted by: patfr
» RE: Truth...However
Posted by: patfr
Comments are closed-
darkmark
Posted by: darkmark on Sep 21, 2008 9:23 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: darkmark on Sep 21, 2008 9:23 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
parents lie, teachers lie, police lie, preachers lie, judges lie, district attorneys lie, politicians lie. i can't blame a people with a poor education for where we are and where we're going. Diogenes wandered around ancient Greece carrying a lantern and searching for an honest man. if he were alive today he would still be searching.
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» RE: darkmark
Posted by: kiatoa
» RE: I don't lie
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: darkmark
Posted by: mainspark
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Why wouldn't Vietnam release those tapes/transcripts NOW?
Posted by: ralphnovy on Sep 21, 2008 10:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: ralphnovy on Sep 21, 2008 10:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Dornan said those transcripts are in war museums in North Vietnam, where McCain, as a senator, pressured the country not to release them or face opposition concerning normalization of relations with the United States."
Anybody know WHEN this was, exactly?
Moreover, anybody know of a reason Vietnam wouldn't release both the tapes AND the transcripts NOW?
THAT would be a fitting "October Surprise," eh? "John 'Songbird' McCain" -- courtesy of the people whom he bombed, bombed, bombed.
Anybody know WHEN this was, exactly?
Moreover, anybody know of a reason Vietnam wouldn't release both the tapes AND the transcripts NOW?
THAT would be a fitting "October Surprise," eh? "John 'Songbird' McCain" -- courtesy of the people whom he bombed, bombed, bombed.
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» RE: Why wouldn't Vietnam release those tapes/transcripts NOW?
Posted by: IntnsRed
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McCain's POWs in Arizona
Posted by: mjinterest on Sep 21, 2008 11:29 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: mjinterest on Sep 21, 2008 11:29 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
McCain was a POW for 5 years, but 10,000 people here in AZ have been prisoners for 8 generations. Polygamy thrives in Colorado City, Arizona (McCain's home state) where thousands of American families (10,000 people) are systematically stripped of their democratic rights and women & children are abused. John McCain hasn't lifted a finger to stop it. What qualifies McCain to be president when he can't even clean up the Taliban in his own backyard? Take a look at the trailer for the recent alarming documentary, BANKING ON HEAVEN. http://www.bankingonheaven.com
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» RE: McCain's POWs in Arizona
Posted by: Dboy
» RE: McCain's POWs in Arizona
Posted by: Joni50
» RE: Polygamy isn't the problem. Coersion is.
Posted by: Plexius2
» RE: Polygamy isn't the problem. Coersion is.
Posted by: Lauren
Comments are closed-
No creator, no cred!
Posted by: Scarabus on Sep 21, 2008 2:46 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Scarabus on Sep 21, 2008 2:46 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This could be straight stuff--rumors have circulated for decades. Nevertheless, if you don't sign your work, then you have no credibility. Period. Even if you do sign it, you can't base your case on memory. Where's the documentation? No documentation, no cred.
Yeah, I know. McCain is alleged to have made sure the documentation of his behavior in Hanoi was buried, so it's unsurprising that documentation of that is lacking. Duh! (Philip Butler does make an excellent case, of course.) However, there should be evidence beyond he said/she said for what he did in 1992.
Without that, I won't post this on my blog. And without that, AlterNet should not have presented this way. Yeah, as Shakespeare's character says, "The truth will out." But the Swiftboater's for Truth were "outing" lies, not truths. We've seen enough of that in American politics.
Yeah, I know. McCain is alleged to have made sure the documentation of his behavior in Hanoi was buried, so it's unsurprising that documentation of that is lacking. Duh! (Philip Butler does make an excellent case, of course.) However, there should be evidence beyond he said/she said for what he did in 1992.
Without that, I won't post this on my blog. And without that, AlterNet should not have presented this way. Yeah, as Shakespeare's character says, "The truth will out." But the Swiftboater's for Truth were "outing" lies, not truths. We've seen enough of that in American politics.
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» RE: No creator, no cred!
Posted by: John Edward
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Flttestengr.
Posted by: bflove on Sep 21, 2008 3:01 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: bflove on Sep 21, 2008 3:01 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not just McCain's age; it's his health. McCain has refused to openly release his medical records without serious restrictions. Last May he released 1,173 pages of medical records for only three hours to a handful of journalists, probably mostly Fox people. The records covered only the last eight years and no copies or phone calls were allowed. Again, he is hiding important information that the voters need to know. Sound familar? Bush would not discuss his alcoholic past.
1,173 pages of medical history in eight years is a huge volume. He is a sick man! Little is known. He has had four melanomas removed, the most serious form of cancer. The last was in 2002. He reportedly has stage II cancer with a 10 year survival rate (to 2012) of 60%. Another report says he had a lympth node removed and that is stage III with a lower survival rate. My boss died of a melanoma on his scalp four months after it was discovered.
Another report says he is being treated for high cholesterol and takes six kidney medications. He also had a growth removed(mostly) from his left jaw.
I am going to do the Senator a favor and not vote for him to give him a better chance to fight off his serious illness.
1,173 pages of medical history in eight years is a huge volume. He is a sick man! Little is known. He has had four melanomas removed, the most serious form of cancer. The last was in 2002. He reportedly has stage II cancer with a 10 year survival rate (to 2012) of 60%. Another report says he had a lympth node removed and that is stage III with a lower survival rate. My boss died of a melanoma on his scalp four months after it was discovered.
Another report says he is being treated for high cholesterol and takes six kidney medications. He also had a growth removed(mostly) from his left jaw.
I am going to do the Senator a favor and not vote for him to give him a better chance to fight off his serious illness.
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» RE: Flttestengr.
Posted by: mahembar
Comments are closed-
Additional information...
Posted by: IntnsRed on Sep 21, 2008 3:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: IntnsRed on Sep 21, 2008 3:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Nation magazine is running an article on how McCain may be covering up for the fact that the US did leave POWs in Vietnam so the US could avoid paying the reparations that the US promised Vietnam.
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» Apologies: my description is poorly worded...
Posted by: IntnsRed
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Twelfth Hour Scrutiny
Posted by: disfasia on Sep 21, 2008 6:15 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: disfasia on Sep 21, 2008 6:15 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One thing I dislike more than private campaign financing is the scrutiny of candidate's pasts only after already public officials have announced their bid for office. We saw this attack from the right with Kerry and I find Rosenfeld's argument just as problematic. I think if there were valid facts about McCain's career or time as a POW, there have been over thirty years to dispell lies, eek out the truth. I don't find any facts in this report and this is deeply disturbing to me. I am growing consistantly disappointed by AlterNet's inability to publish stories that are factual, not based on sexist tropes (ie. the plethora of stories about Palin as a sex object or as a Barbie doll) and not based on baiting a candidate who might, for personal reasons which are for him alone to decide, wish to keep those years of terror private. Betancourt, if you recall, is not talking about the painful detail of her captivity-- because it was painful! John McCain, though I do not believe in military action, nor do I agree with the terrorism in Viet Nam, was captured and lived many years that I am certain he does not wish to remember nor have rehashed in public "memory". The least the media can do without compromising any ethics of transparency is to allow McCain's pain to remain private.
I am proudly voting for Ralph Nader and have spent hours this past week writing on blogs and letters to editors about the extreme lack of principals in reporting on Republicans. I am quite disturbed by the quality of articles I am seeing here. It is as if I have entered a time machine and it is four years ago and the media, instead of smearing Democrat candidates for trivial and similar issues, is now taking up this very same game in smearing Republican candidates with arguments that have absolutely nothing to do with the issues at hand. Four years ago this very media forum published constant complaints about the right-wing spin on the elections. Why not lead by example and stop putting a spin and cover the fact pertaining directly to the this presidential election. Let's see stories about both candidates ridiculous plans to "save" the economy; both candidates zeal for faith-based programs; and their desire to continue the "wars" on terror (or as I say "terrorism on terror").
Is it really so hard to talk about the issues?
I am proudly voting for Ralph Nader and have spent hours this past week writing on blogs and letters to editors about the extreme lack of principals in reporting on Republicans. I am quite disturbed by the quality of articles I am seeing here. It is as if I have entered a time machine and it is four years ago and the media, instead of smearing Democrat candidates for trivial and similar issues, is now taking up this very same game in smearing Republican candidates with arguments that have absolutely nothing to do with the issues at hand. Four years ago this very media forum published constant complaints about the right-wing spin on the elections. Why not lead by example and stop putting a spin and cover the fact pertaining directly to the this presidential election. Let's see stories about both candidates ridiculous plans to "save" the economy; both candidates zeal for faith-based programs; and their desire to continue the "wars" on terror (or as I say "terrorism on terror").
Is it really so hard to talk about the issues?
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» RE: Twelfth Hour Scrutiny - quite right.
Posted by: mahembar
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McCains POW record
Posted by: John Edward on Sep 21, 2008 6:42 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: John Edward on Sep 21, 2008 6:42 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He was shot down on Oct. 26 1967. 3 or 4 days later he agreed to give military information for hospital treatment. He was first quoted in the Hanoi Press on Nov. 9 and his first radio broadcast was Nov 11. He made a total of 32 tapes over three years of which 6 are available as transcripts at the web site of Vietnam Vets Against McCain. The six transcripts include both the Nov 9 and Nov ll incidents. His nickname among the N Viets. was "Songbird" based on his rapid compliance. On one of the transcripts, mentioned above, someone wrote in the margin, "He sang to the French also." All torture of the POWs ended at the death of Ho Chi Minh in late 1969. Since his cooperation started early and lasted beyond the torture there is only a short window for torture. It is unreasonable to think he would cooperate if torture continued. His POW story has a lot of truthiness appeal but no basis in fact. Following his release his behavior was suspect enough that he was not promoted, as was the usual practice. He had no chance of becoming an admiral and resigned shortly after the death of his father. It is somewhat unfair to refer to him as a reverse ace, since one of his 5 lost planes was the result of an accident involving getting shot by another plane and of course another was the fifth lost as a result of antiaircraft fire. So we have another failed pilot with father issues running for President. Remember how well that turned out last time?
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» RE: McCains POW record
Posted by: mahembar
» RE: McCains POW record
Posted by: John Edward
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A pacifist view
Posted by: PaulK on Sep 21, 2008 7:33 PM
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Posted by: PaulK on Sep 21, 2008 7:33 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many, many soldiers take actions in war that they are ashamed of. Some kill people and are horrified. For others, parts of their psyches go stone cold for the rest of their lives. Some are grief-stricken for their buddies that got killed or mutilated, asking, why wasn't it me. Numbers of vets seem to wind up on drugs lately, and numbers commit suicide lately.
Some are captured. Some, as in the book 1984, cough up both their information and their spirits under direct torture, under the threat of torture or under living conditions that constitute torture.
As a pacifist, I think that good citizenship in the face of anti-democratic pressure is heroism. It doesn't matter to me which government applies such pressure, your own or someone else's. So, soldiers can be heroes if they consciously defend democracy as citizens, or at other times they can be ordinary wimps who only wanted good cushy careers and got caught in a stupid war.
Why did Senator McCain originally go to West Point? First he got himself lined up for a career on the back lines, and second he avoided the draft. Did he show citizenship in graduating in the bottommost 1% of his class at West Point? No, he was a royal goofup, but his father was an admiral so he got a mulligan.
So the messup plebe then got a job as a pilot on a carrier where he could sleep safely at night. He got shot down, found himself tossed in a cell, and was released at the end of the war. I'm still looking for any great personal citizenship in the face of corruption. I see an innocent guy that got caught up in something big and dangerous. I don't really care whether he sang or not. I feel sorry for the guys locked up in the zoo, but I see little enough "heroism" either way once people become inmates.
Then McCain got out. He helped himself all the rest of his life and called that citizenship.
Some are captured. Some, as in the book 1984, cough up both their information and their spirits under direct torture, under the threat of torture or under living conditions that constitute torture.
As a pacifist, I think that good citizenship in the face of anti-democratic pressure is heroism. It doesn't matter to me which government applies such pressure, your own or someone else's. So, soldiers can be heroes if they consciously defend democracy as citizens, or at other times they can be ordinary wimps who only wanted good cushy careers and got caught in a stupid war.
Why did Senator McCain originally go to West Point? First he got himself lined up for a career on the back lines, and second he avoided the draft. Did he show citizenship in graduating in the bottommost 1% of his class at West Point? No, he was a royal goofup, but his father was an admiral so he got a mulligan.
So the messup plebe then got a job as a pilot on a carrier where he could sleep safely at night. He got shot down, found himself tossed in a cell, and was released at the end of the war. I'm still looking for any great personal citizenship in the face of corruption. I see an innocent guy that got caught up in something big and dangerous. I don't really care whether he sang or not. I feel sorry for the guys locked up in the zoo, but I see little enough "heroism" either way once people become inmates.
Then McCain got out. He helped himself all the rest of his life and called that citizenship.
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Talking Point
Posted by: Direct Democracy on Sep 21, 2008 8:08 PM
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Posted by: Direct Democracy on Sep 21, 2008 8:08 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Noun, Verb, “Tweety” McCain was a Viet Cong collaborator.
http://www.counterpunch.org/valentine06132008.html
FREE AMERICA
REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY
http://www.counterpunch.org/valentine06132008.html
FREE AMERICA
REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY
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Proposed new slogan for Obama TV ads
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 21, 2008 8:32 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 21, 2008 8:32 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
John McCain -- OLD ideas, OLD solutions
If you like the slogan, contact the Democratic National Committee with this link -- Contact DNC -- then copy & paste the text below into the Question box. (NOTE: the link works slowly)
To help Senator Obama win in November, please use the following slogan in his TV ads: "John McCain -- OLD ideas, OLD solutions"
If you like the slogan, contact the Democratic National Committee with this link -- Contact DNC -- then copy & paste the text below into the Question box. (NOTE: the link works slowly)
To help Senator Obama win in November, please use the following slogan in his TV ads: "John McCain -- OLD ideas, OLD solutions"
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Psycho Dornan
Posted by: john2007 on Sep 21, 2008 8:50 PM
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Posted by: john2007 on Sep 21, 2008 8:50 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would love to believe this video. If it can be corroborated by credible sources it'll be instant death for the McCain campaign. Unfortunately, the testimony of Bob Dornan is like the kiss of death; he is a notorious wingnut who accuses everyone of everything. He was too much even for the ultra conservative Orange County, that's why they dumped his ass from the House of Representatives.
Still, the idea of McCain engineering a cover-up of his own POW records is tantalizing. They will probably claim that they won't dignify the smear by answering it, but with six weeks to go they will have to offer some kind of defense. Cover-ups are so deadly.
Still, the idea of McCain engineering a cover-up of his own POW records is tantalizing. They will probably claim that they won't dignify the smear by answering it, but with six weeks to go they will have to offer some kind of defense. Cover-ups are so deadly.
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Counterpunch story on McCain selling out USA - eneny collaborator
Posted by: bfh369 on Sep 21, 2008 9:39 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: bfh369 on Sep 21, 2008 9:39 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alexander Cockburn:McCain, What Really Happened When He Was a POW?
CounterPunch Diary. "Hero" John McCain as Phony and Collaborator: What Really Happened When He Was a POW? By ALEXANDER COCKBURN. John McCain’s been getting ...
www.counterpunch.org/cockburn04192008.html -
CounterPunch Diary. "Hero" John McCain as Phony and Collaborator: What Really Happened When He Was a POW? By ALEXANDER COCKBURN. John McCain’s been getting ...
www.counterpunch.org/cockburn04192008.html -
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Funny that this is comingg from anti-gay conservative Dornan
Posted by: jeffreytaos on Sep 22, 2008 4:04 AM
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Posted by: jeffreytaos on Sep 22, 2008 4:04 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dornan, the same one who went after gays in California?????Why would this conservative have chosen to pinpoint McCain at that time, unless he believed that McCain was useless to the conservative agenda. Now McCain has tried to put himself up as leader of he conservative agenda. Where is Dornan now? Are we talking about the same man?????
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McCain: The Manchurian Candidate
Posted by: left_libertarian on Sep 22, 2008 5:03 AM
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Posted by: left_libertarian on Sep 22, 2008 5:03 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He sold his soul to the commies to help bring down America and our liberties.
For the illegal Iraq War - check
For the 'patriot act.' stripping away more of our liberties- check
For FISA - check
Wants a socialistic solution to bankrupt Wall St firms - check
I smell a commie and it's McCain.
For the illegal Iraq War - check
For the 'patriot act.' stripping away more of our liberties- check
For FISA - check
Wants a socialistic solution to bankrupt Wall St firms - check
I smell a commie and it's McCain.
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PROGRESSIVE WIRE
Stop the Execution of an Innocent Man!
DNA testing could free Hank Skinner before Feb. 24 execution date.
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