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Election 2008

Half of Americans Believe GOP Spin on Obama's Tax Plan

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted August 26, 2008.


Even though Obama says he'll cut taxes for 95 percent of Americans, Gallup records 53 percent thinking he'll raise them.
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You've really got to tip your hat to the anti-tax propagandists on the Right. According to Gallup, 53 percent of Americans believe an Obama presidency would result in their taxes going up, despite the reality that he has offered tax "relief" for 95 percent of taxpayers and would only raise taxes on the top 5 percent to the levels they paid during the Clinton years.

Interestingly, about a third of respondents to the Gallup poll said John McCain would also raise their taxes. A quarter said as much of George W. Bush in 2004 -- clearly, there's a sizable group of Americans who believe that it's just what politicians do.

From Gallup:

Given the current economic environment, one might think that the last thing the presidential contenders would be thinking about -- let alone verbalizing -- would be their intention to raise federal income taxes. In fact, McCain has pledged to renew the tax cuts Bush instituted, and Barack Obama has said he would raise taxes on the wealthiest but would provide a tax cut to middle-class Americans. Therefore, it may be somewhat surprising that so many Americans think their federal taxes will go up, regardless of whether Obama or McCain is elected. ...

Republicans are overwhelmingly convinced that Obama will increase their taxes, with 81% stating such an expectation, compared to 52% of independents and 34% of Democrats. In sharp contrast, only 16% of Republicans think their taxes will increase if McCain is elected president, compared to 34% of independents and 46% of Democrats. While party affiliation clearly plays a role in the way Democrats and Republicans view potential tax increases, a substantial percentage of independents think their federal taxes will increase no matter who wins.

You can boil down conservative messaging to the economy to this: We're all the same. Rich and poor, high-skilled workers and those without, wage-slaves and Paris Hilton -- and either politicians "raise taxes" or provide "tax relief." The reality is that the federal government is always going to rake in somewhere around 18 to 20 percent of the GDP in revenues, and the questions people should be asking are: 1) is the level of revenue sufficient so that government can do what we ask and expect it to do, or are we going to run up huge deficits, and 2) how is that burden distributed?

And we're not talking just about individuals. During the boom years after World War II, corporate income taxes represented around 6 percent of the government's revenues; today that number has fallen to less than 2 percent.

But back to individual taxpayers. According to an analysis of both candidates' tax proposals by the Tax Policy Center and the Urban Institute (PDF), the reality is that under McCain's plan, the middle class would pay a few dollars less, the top 5 percent would pay a whole lot less, and the deficit would continue to snowball. Under Obama's plan, the top 2.5 percent of filers would see their tax rates return to what they were under Clinton -- a real increase -- and the bottom 95 percent of filers would pay a lot less.

Specifically:

Taxpayers' Income

McCain Plan

Obama Plan

$227,000 or more

(5% of population):

Pay $15,000 less

$23,000 more

$112,000-227,000

(15% of population):

Pay $3,200 less

$2,300 less

$66,000-112,000

(20% of population):

Pay $1,009 less

$1,290 less

$38,000-66,000

(20% of population):

Pay $319

$1,042 less

$19,000-38,000

(20% of population):

Pay $113 less

$892 less

$0-19,000

(20% of population):

Pay $19 less

$567 less

 

Budget impact

Costs $600 billion

Returns $700 billion

These are estimates only, but certainly adequate to make the point that average families would see bigger cuts under an Obama administration -- and those at the top would clean up, while the deficit continues its steady upward trend, under McCain.

If you haven't signed up for AlterNet's Corporate Accountability and Workplace coverage yet, you really should. Each week, we'll send you our best econ coverage -- including stories that don't get onto the front page -- along with news of the latest studies, a little quote or a factoid of the week. Sign up today!

AlterNet is a nonprofit organization and does not make political endorsements. The opinions expressed by our writers are their own.
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See more stories tagged with: obama, mccain, taxes, econ, gallup

Joshua Holland is an AlterNet staff writer.

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The real issues are how the taxpayer money is spent and the costs offsetting tax cuts.
Posted by: maxpayne on Aug 26, 2008 2:34 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are two problems that are striking:

1. People are very distrustful of how government spends its money. By wasting more taxpayer money towards wars for oil and tax cuts for the wealthy elites such as Donald Trump and getting into "free" trade for poorer quality products built on near-slave labor, the good programs in America are kicked to the curb as has been the case since 1980.

2. People in this country especially the middle class or what's left of it still cling to the notion that tax cuts will make them uber-wealthy and they'll resort to desperate measures even on their own home to try to prop up that fantasy. Forgotten or overlooked is the fact that you're paying far more in costs than what you'll receive in those so-called tax cuts. Here's a simple case. Person A wants to sell Person B some bullshit for $1000 and tells Person B that they'll be able to deduct $500 from their taxes. Person B who would do better not to waste $1000 on that bullshit will fall for it still think they're $500 richer. Come tax season, take a close look at how the tax reductions are actually calculated. You are only allowed up to a certain amount on certain expenditures. And even where you're allowed, it's really a small deduction at best. On the other hand, if you're uber-wealthy, there are loads more of deductions you can exploit. In other words, there's a load of double standards in these over-bloated tax policies neither side especially the GOP won't want to let you know about. Get out your magnifying glasses and be on the lookout.

Now, I don't like giving my taxpayer money to politicians who will misuse it on wars and trade. However, for every tax deduction you make on an expenditure, add up all those expenditure costs and you'll find out that those expenditure costs are far more than those tax cuts you'll be lucky to receive.

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ba
Posted by: mnstra on Aug 26, 2008 2:48 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why should either candidate increase taxes on those that got them elected?
Can you really believe Obama after his flip flopping ?
Either way we are getting screwed, get used to it , find a supplemental income either way .
We are in for the long haul unless we ge Ralph Nader in

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53% must be stupid
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Aug 26, 2008 5:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was told when I was young, 'Believe nothing of what you hear,believe in half of what you see and never trust a politician to do what they say'. It seems to have worked out that way. Never has a politician done what they said, nothing I ever heard turned out to be 100% true and most everything I was taught in school was wrong.
Once you stop using your own mind and let others tell you how it is...you lose.
It's up to us to make sure any campaign promice is kept,by standing on the White House lawn if needs be. For damn sure the steps of Congress. We got the Bill of Rights by locking the jerks in chambers until we got them. Maybe we need to do the same again. It's not illegal to say they can't go home until they do what we want. They just don't like to be made to do it.

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» RE: 53% must be stupid Posted by: fred_53_99
Spin, or perception?
Posted by: byff on Aug 26, 2008 6:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Interestingly, about a third of respondents to the Gallup poll said that McCain would also raise their taxes."

Shouldn't that be a clue that it's not Republican spin, as the author would have us believe, but ordinary public perception providing the numbers?

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» RE: Spin, or perception? Posted by: BigElectricCat
CommonDreamer
Posted by: CommonDreamer on Aug 26, 2008 7:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So we are still dealing with Swiftboating and non thinking citizens who are still drinking the anti-tax koolaid. Used the right way, taxes can even out the rewards, build and keep our infrastructure strong, and keep society strong for all - not just a few. As it is now - you who get on a bus every day and work for median and under income - congratulations - you're still helping those who need it least...to build $5-$30 million mansions...to get regressive mortgage deductions...to steal all of the money so that bridges fall down and working people lose their shirts and homes.

I am not investing any more emotion in this election. Last time was devastating. There is simply no intellectual reasoning here - just listening to the stupid knee jerk ads that don't tell the truth. Faith? How can I have faith when this is how voters think? Isn't anyone in school taught about "spin" and how it works? No, I think not - school is for rote learners and the "sheeple" - may they do the ruling class' will and not ask too many questions and not think on their own about real life issues, a little more deeply than a 30 second ad. What can we do about this?...When will schools teach something useful (since obviously parents are not - morals, deductive reasoning, deep thought).....we can only hope the logical association of empty working people's wallets with these policies will overcome any doubts. The audacity of hope!....is all I have left.

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» RE: CommonDreamer Posted by: fred_53_99
no big tax picture?
Posted by: Rolomax on Aug 26, 2008 11:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who do these people think will pay off the U.S. Government's 10 Trillion dollar debt?

$10,000,000,000,000.00

Is the "Tax Fairy" going to make it go away? Probably not.

It sounds to me like the people benefitting from the Republican spiel are the same ones that are adding on to that number. You know, like taxpayer funded think tanks and gop funded propoganda..etc. ugh.

It's probably best to think in such a way that your tax dollars are being spent to fool you into owing more. Because, the US Gov't Debt has to be paid by you, the taxpayer. What's the interest on that, I wonder..

There's all the proof you need that government is not working for the people.

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The government is the people
Posted by: hurricane hugo on Aug 27, 2008 12:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...and , just like the people, they spend, spend, spend - all the while denying the reality of what they're doing.

To quote the late George Carlin: "this is the best we can do".

jdfu!

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The answer is
Posted by: Erin on Aug 27, 2008 4:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not that I believe the GOP, it is that I know he is a liar and a politician.

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The learning process
Posted by: using on Aug 27, 2008 6:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Republican tacit of screaming lies to cover the truth should be put to rest. WE need articles and candidates to nail home repeatedly the truth about who got what and who lost under whose watch in clear, simple, terms. The goal: to restructure internal thinking process and lay the mind clear to relating to the conditions of the moments. I have found that young children respond well to logic, mixed with passion, truth and examples that are part of their experiences. However, they do have to have the logic repeatedly explained in recurring situations. If it works for children I would think it would work even for pre programed adults.

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It's in the DNA
Posted by: jebpgh on Aug 27, 2008 7:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Voters have been trained like Pavlovian dogs to assume Democrats raise taxes (and spend like crazy) and Republicans lower taxes (and spend like crazy). It's tough to break out of this model for any Democratic candidate.

But as others have already noted, the GOP has been binging for about eight years now, spending like crazy on the outsourcing of nearly every element of the Federal government and doing it on borrowed money. Whether it is war or domestic security or lying about evolution - they outsourced as much as they could and then went back and outsourced some more. It's not for nothing that the highest per capitan income counties in the United States are now immediately surrounding Washington DC.

So Obama needs to ask the voters who is going to pay the bill here? How do we get our finances back in order? What is the solution to this problem? I think the political Kool-aid of throwing around how we can cut taxes and spend more is the biggest problem any candidate faces - and the inability to solve it responsibly will mean the collapse of the economy.

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» It's nothing new. Posted by: medusa
Taxes
Posted by: BCcovers on Aug 27, 2008 10:42 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The average American family pays 48% of its income in taxes. This is between state, local, etc. This is not the top 5%. Furthermore most people are unaware that the top 5% pay 60% of the tax burden in the country even after Bush's dastardly tax cuts. Now I think there's nothing wrong with that, I believe in a progressive tax system. People always banter around here about what is "fair" and yet always exclude that fact. But further raises are unnecessary; the government is an insatiable beast that will take as much money as we allow it. The average American family is suffering right now and needs money in its pocket. This comes through tax cuts, not raises on them (which Obama says he won't do) or tax raises on their employers (which he will).

The fact is the average taxes an American family pays has doubled over the past 40 years and can we say that we're that much better off? People recognize the pinch in their wallets and do not want any more taxes levied on them. And this does not simply include income taxes. Whether you're on the right and don't like excessive spending on social programs, or on the left and don't like spending money on wars. Do you really want to trust the government with MORE of our money?

Capital Gains taxes that Obama wants to raise affect millions of Americans. Whether one realizes it or not. Herbert Hoover's tax plan was actually errily similiar to Obama's. He cracked down on Investment which further slowed down the economy, made businesses reticent to expand or hire more workers, and caused some others who were in trouble unable to be saved b/c of his new, high tax rates on investments.

We, as all Americans have to ask ourselves. Does the government DESERVE more of our money when both parties have failed to delivery for the American people time and time again.

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» RE: Taxes.. Trolls and Lies, Oh My! Posted by: BigElectricCat
Everyone Knows
Posted by: FoonTheElder on Aug 27, 2008 2:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
'murrkuns is stoopid!

They believe whatever right wing propaganda they hear as long as it is repeated enough times. It usually begins with the phrase, "Everyone knows...".

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