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Election 2008

How the Democrats Can Blow It ... in Six Easy Steps

By Michael Moore, MichaelMoore.com. Posted August 13, 2008.


A blueprint for losing the most winnable presidential election in American history.
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For years now, nearly every poll has shown that the American people are right in sync with the platform of the Democratic Party. They are pro-environment, pro-women's rights and pro-choice. They don't like war. They want the minimum wage raised, and they want a single-payer universal health-care system. The American public agrees with the Republican Party on only one major issue: They support the death penalty.

So you would think the Democrats would be cleaning up, election after election. Obviously not. The Democrats appear to be professional losers. They are so pathetic in their ability to win elections, they even lose when they win! So when you hear Democrats and liberals and supporters of Barack Obama say they are worried that John McCain has a good chance of winning, they ain't a-kidding. Who would know better than the very people who have handed the Republicans one election after another on a silver platter? Yes, be afraid, be very afraid.

In an effort to help the party doofuses and pundits -- and the candidate himself -- spare all of us another suicide-inducing election night, as the results giving the election to the Republican pour in, here is the blueprint from the Democrats' past losing campaigns. Just follow each of these steps and you, the Democratic Party establishment, can help elect John Sidney McCain III to a four-year extension of the Bush Era:

1. Keep saying nice things about McCain. Like how he's been "good on global warming" and campaign finance. Keep reminding a country at war that he and he alone is a war hero. Not to mention an all-round good guy. Say that enough and what happens? The same thing that happens when you repeat over and over, "Apply directly to the forehead" - people start to believe it! You've sold them on the idea that McCain isn't a bad egg, and they do not hear the rest of what you have to say: "But John McCain is four more years of George W Bush." If you keep saying he used to be a "maverick", our less-attention-span citizens hear only the "maverick" part, not the past tense verb included in that sentence.

This is not to say you should in any way demean John McCain as a human being or as an American. Disagreeing strongly with his policies or the direction he would lead the country is not the same as denigrating him as a person. This particular style of politics is the cesspool that the Right and the Republican Party apparatus swim in. We do not further our agenda by imitating them. Fight, fight back, and fight hard - but fight clean. It's ultimately what I believe the majority of Americans would like to see.

There is also nothing wrong with saying nice things about McCain's constituency, and you should. We want to hold out our hand to people who have voted for Republicans in the past. Many of them are tired, a good number are disgusted. They won't agree with a lot of what we stand for, but they've had it up to here with the Republicans and we should make sure our tent is big enough to welcome them in.

So if you want to help elect McCain, keep blessing him as if he were the white knight who accidentally hopped on the wrong horse. Forget to continually point out that he is truly up to no good. Keep pulling your punches. Don't remind people McCain wants to help the oil companies even more than Bush did. Don't bring up that he wants to outlaw all abortion. Back away from painting McCain as the guy who thinks it's a good idea to stay in Iraq until pigs fly. That way, if you keep praising him, you can send a mixed message to the less-informed who are simply not going to figure it out. When they walk into a voting booth, they will see two names on the ballot:

· Barack Obama
· War Hero

Trust me, this ain't Sweden. War Hero wins every time.

2. Have Obama pick a vice-presidential candidate who is a conservative white guy, or a general, or a Republican. Yes, it will seem like smart politics at first. Shore up Obama's lack of military experience with a hawk.

Be true to Obama's message that he'll be a president for everybody by having him run with a Republican.

Make a pitch to the purple states of Virginia and Indiana to vote Democratic this time by putting one of their own on the ticket.

Or swing for the fences and make the red state of Ohio happy by handing the vice-presidential slot to its governor.

But by doing any of this, you will upset the base that not only must come out on election day, it must also be active and work dozens of hours during the campaign. They have to personally bring 10 people each to the polls with them if we are to avoid the disasters of the past two elections. Many won't do this extra work if Obama picks the wrong Veep. It will suck the air out of the balloon in a big way.

Obama electrified the nation on the notion of change and hope and a fresh direction in Washington. If he picks a running mate who screams "Same old same old", it will make it harder for him to attract all the new voters he needs to bring to the polls to win. Remember there are nearly 100 million adults who choose not to vote. That is a large base from which to draw millions of new votes. Obama should not desert a strategy that has worked well for him.

There is nothing wrong with picking someone who can help him win a swing state or someone who has more experience than he does in certain areas. But when I hear pundits say, "He has to pick a Catholic", well, John Kerry was a total Catholic and the Catholic vote went to Mr W. I mean, here's one of the largest groups in the country - 66 million Catholics - and they/we have allowed only one Catholic to be president in 208 years. You would think they would have been flocking to Kerry in 2004. That is not the way people think. It is the way pundits think. Keep listening to them and you can help elect John McCain the next president of the United States.

3. Keep writing speeches for Obama like the one in front of the American Israeli lobbying group the day after the final primaries. Here's what he said: "The danger from Iran is grave, it is real, and my goal will be to eliminate this threat." And: "Let there be no doubt: I will always keep the threat of military action on the table to defend our security and our ally Israel. Sometimes there are no alternatives to confrontation."

Sounds like a speech McCain would give. Sounds like he's ready to invade Iran. He staked out an even worse position for the Palestinians vis-a-vis Jerusalem than the one held by George W Bush. Keep that up and more and more supporters will be less and less enthused. It will be harder to keep the base motivated if they continue to hear how Obama wants to expand Bush's "faith-based" initiatives, doesn't have a health plan that covers everyone, and wants to send more troops to Afghanistan. The implied message of this is that the Republican plan is a good plan. So why would voters want to elect the candidate imitating the Republican when they can get the real thing? Talk like this gets McCain elected.

4. Forget that this was a historic year for women. Obama should be making a speech about gender like the brilliant one he gave on race back in March. Millions of people, especially women, had high hopes for the candidacy of Hillary Clinton. Attention must be paid. And you don't pay attention to it by having your advisers run your wife through the makeover machine, trying to soften her up and pipe her down. Michelle Obama has been one of the most refreshing things about this election year. But within weeks of the end of the primary season, the handlers stepped in to deal with the "Michelle problem."

What problem? She speaks her mind? She wears what she wants? Her biggest sin, according to the punditocracy, was to say that, as a black woman, this may be the first time in her adult life she's been really proud of her country. Shock! Surprise! Outrage! But not from any of the black women I know.

You have to be white and stupid to not know what she was really saying. If you don't understand, let me ask you this: Have you been proud of what this country has been doing in the past few years? Are you proud your neighbors had their house taken from them? Are you proud to be sending a good chunk of your paycheck to the oil companies so they can post record profits? Are you proud to know your vice president outed one of our spies and put her life and the lives of others at risk?

That's all she was saying -- what we are all feeling.

Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton both lost the white-male vote but won the White House. They did so by winning the black, Hispanic and female vote. That HAS to be Obama's strategy to win. Otherwise, Cindy McCain will be our new First Lady.

5. Show up to a gunfight with a peashooter. Convince yourself that the Republicans are just going to roll over and play dead because there is simply no life left in their party. Convince yourself this one is in the bag! Convince yourself that if you play by the rules, the Republicans will too.

And when McCain and his people roll out their nuclear arsenal on you, just go all sweet and sensitive and logical. Believe that the truth shall prevail, that good people will see what the Republicans are up to. As they smear you, your family, your religious beliefs -- cower, back down, go on the defensive.

If they say you should quit your church, quit your church! If they explode over your speaking the truth about the anger and despair of the white working class, take it all back! If they ask you to stand on your head and do the hokeypokey, snap to it and do it with a smile on your face -- and don't forget to apologize for not doing the hokeypokey earlier; you meant no disrespect, and please don't take it as any indication that you do not love your country, your flag and your Christian God.

Do all of that and then listen for that sound -- the sound of your supporters shuffling away in silence. They'll stop showing up at campaign headquarters. They'll say they're too busy to go on another door-to-door literature drop. On Election Day, they'll do their duty and vote, but they will not be up at 6 a.m. driving around the city's neighborhoods, picking up strangers who need a ride to the polls.

And on the way to the polls, some of them might just come to a stoplight, turn around and go home. Maybe they'll pick up a six-pack on the way. Maybe there's a new episode of Deal or No Deal on tonight. That would be nice. The girls are pretty, especially the blonde in the third row. Wait, they're all blond. No, not that one -- THAT one! Oh yes, I see her. She is pretty. But the Man in the Booth has picked up the phone! He's calling down to you. Deal? Or no deal? No deal! No deal! Don't do it! Hey, I'm outta beer! Why didn't I pick up a case? Now I gotta spend eight bucks on gas to go buy more beer! Aaaaarrrggggghhhhhh!!!! HOWIE MANDEL ISN'T WEARING A FLAG PIN!! U-S-A! U-S-A!

6. Denounce me!
Obama, at some point, might be asked this question: "Michael Moore has endorsed you. But he recently said (fill in the blank with some outrageously offensive line taken out of context). Will you still accept his endorsement, or do you denounce him?"

And he better denounce me, or they will tear him to shreds. He had better back away not only from me but from anyone and everyone who veers a bit too far to the left of where his advisers have told him is the sweet spot for all those red-state voters. I won't take it personally. After all, I'm not the guy who married him or baptized his kids. I'm just the idiot who went to the same terrorist, Muslim school of flag-pin desecrators he went to.

I remember poor John Kerry not even being able to admit, when asked by Larry King, if he had seen Fahrenheit 9/11. "No," he said, "I haven't. . . . I don't plan to, right now." But he had indeed seen it. I sat there watching him say this, and I just felt sorry for him and for the election he was about to lose.

We can't take four more years of this madness, Barack. We need you to be a candidate who will fight back every time they attack you. Actually, don't even wait till you have to fight back. Fight first! Show some vision and courage and smoke them out. Keep asking why these lobbyists are McCain's best friends. Let's finally have a Democrat who's got the balls to fire first.

So Barack, by denouncing me, you can help McCain get elected. Because when you denounce me, it's not really me you're distancing yourself from -- it's the millions upon millions of people who feel the same way about things as I do. And many of them are the kind of crazy voters who have no problem voting for a Nader just to prove a point.

Elections have been lost by just 537 votes. I don't want that to happen to you.

From the forthcoming book "Mike's Election Guide," by Michael Moore. Copyright © 2008 by Michael Moore.

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Michael Moore is an Academy award-winning filmmaker and author of "Mike's Election Guide."

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Barack Obama the Candidate of "Same"
Posted by: mmckinl on Aug 13, 2008 12:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Instead of building on the theme of change and harnessing the anger of the American people Barack has retreated into a lethargy of sameness and lameness that has been incredible to watch.

Instead of sticking to his guns on denying telecoms immunity he endorsed it! Instead countering McCain with a real energy plan he called for drilling! Instead of saying what we all know ... that we have lost the Iraq War because of the cost to our reputation and our treasury he fudges his position.

Obama is now losing the support of liberals and progressives as well as independents due to his wishy washy middle of the road, nondescript platform of sameness. The anger and angst of the American people over the last 8 years seems to have been completely forgotten in his rhetoric. Where is his call for accountability and justice for what has been the worst 8 years of modern American History?

Obama is offending everyone by not taking on anyone ...

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» Poulist type Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: Poulist type Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Poulist type Posted by: BigElectricCat
RE:How the 'left' Nadarites are working for the right again!
Posted by: Purple Girl on Aug 13, 2008 5:18 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Having been a liberal voting Dem for the last 26 yrs I have been amazed how the 'lefties' have been drinking the koolaid the Right keeps handing them.Proving they are not as Bright as they keep telling themselves they are and fucking US up again.
They have been as Blind to the game as the religious right- and as self Righteous.
Get a grip kiddos- Kucinich & Gravel Lost (I voted for Kucinich in the Rigged MI Primary) and Nadar has been working fo rthe Neo Cons for Decades!! He's nothing more than a Red Herring- a Old "hippie" who traded in his 'beads' to become a Yuppie long ago- A 'Boomer ' who fell in love with the corinthian Leather and has switched sides to keep corporationist in office.Without a 'Yin' he would not have his "Yang".
You did the same thing to your NOW own beloved Gore..so Suck it up this time and Help US !!

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RE: How the 'left' Nadarites are working for the right again!
Posted by: DBachmozart on Aug 13, 2008 5:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Naderites working for the right??? I think that the Democrats are performing that role just fine, thank you. It's not any Naderites in Congress giving Bush/Cheney EVERY PENNY THEY'VE ASKED FOR to kill over one million Iraqis and Afghanis. It's not any Naderites I know of in Congress looking the other way when it comes time to hold Bush/Cheney responsible and accountable for violating international laws concerning torture. It's not Naderites that are allowing illegal spying on over one million Americans. And it's not Naderites that allow all this to serve as a precedent for future Presidents-dictators by refusing to even discuss the remedy that the Founders had for a President breaking the law - IMPEACHMENT!

Your claim of left critics serving the right is borrowed from the toxic arsenal of the Stalinist Communist Party USA when they attacked left critics as rightists in disguise. At least acknowledge where you steal your arguments from.

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» Sen Obama: A Trojan horse of Socialism? Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» War Hero Posted by: Moore Hognutz
» RE: War Hero Posted by: BlueSun
» RE: War Hero Posted by: racetoinfinity
Doofuses?
Posted by: synx on Aug 13, 2008 1:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You seem to think the Democratic party is unintentionally losing. Their purpose is to steal your vote, break their promises, lose badly, then give speeches about how they are uniters. When they lose, the people who would have repaired the system are dragged down with them, just as planned, leaving the corporates once again with exclusive rights to all resources and power. The Republicans are the same way, except they take out the nasty people who'd bring about social change.

There's nothing incompetent about these parties. They're professional, capable, powerful men who didn't joke around in law school. Everything they do is very deliberate, and if it looks like they're being harmless doofuses, you should consider it likely they're doing something malicious and prettying it up to look like an accident. Forget the speeches, follow the money.

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» RE: Doofuses? Posted by: LionHeart
» They serve the lobbyists Posted by: feduphoosier
» Not consistently, they don't Posted by: leftymathprof
» RE: Doofuses? Posted by: Annapurna1
» the point was... Posted by: jimmshorts
Um, Editor?
Posted by: norsegirl on Aug 13, 2008 1:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Care to actually include points 1-3?

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» RE: Um, Editor? Posted by: StillStanding
» RE: Um, Editor? Posted by: Last Chance
COUNTER POINT: The GOP's winning two-part strategy. Or so it thinks.
Posted by: HughScott on Aug 13, 2008 1:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yesterday I had my second epiphany of the week. For GOP trolls, epiphanies are Ah-HAH! moments.

Thanks to a morale-boosting comment from fellow Alternetter "jstepp590," I now believe in my heart and mind that Unfit McCain will be defeated in November. However, it won't be easy and here's why.

One day before my sudden surge of optimism, I watched Chris Mathews on "Hardball" interview Tom Ridge. Asked if the GOP could win his home state, he replied confidently with a twinkle in his eye (I'm paraphrasing now), "Not only we will win Pennsylvania, we will carry the nation!"

That's when I had my first epiphany -- the GOP's two-part strategy.

1. The Republicans will try to destroy Barrack Obama using every dirty trick in Karl Rove's playbook, including dealing the race card from all parts of the deck.

2. McCain will chose Ridge, a moderate Republican, as his running mate.

Conservative Republicans and the far right will howl in protest but not fence-sitting independents and embittered Hillary fans, sucked into the McCain camp by the GOP's branding of Senator Obama as an uppity, inexperienced minstrel man.

Meanwhile, the McCain/Ridge campaign will be all about SECURITY.

Every issue will be tagged with the fear-mongering term. Improving the economy will improve our SECURITY. More jobs will make us MORE SECURE. Winning in Iraq will boost our SECURITY. And so will tax cuts and off-shore drilling...blah, blah, blah -- SECURITY!

You can also expect GOP-orchestrated rumors about McCain being a one-term president. In that case, in 2013, the former head of Homeland Security, a Vietnam veteran and ex-Pennsylvania governor who believes in choice, would perpetuate rightwing Republican control of the federal government for eight additional excruciating years. Listen closely and you can almost hear the sound of goose-stepping jackboots pounding down Pennsylvania Avenue.

To keep that heart-stopping vision from coming true, every freedom-loving American will have to get involved in the election process and support Barrack Obama -- like him or not.

Simply blogging on the Internet won't hack it. Beating a McCain/Ridge ticket will mean attending Obama rallies, displaying Obama signs on front yards, working at Democrat voter registration tables in local shopping malls.

In 2004, I went to a MoveOn.org house party (I'm a member) and listened to a live nationwide conference call ironically by Michael Moore. He said something I will never forget -- "After this meeting tonight, some of us will party until three a,m. That's when Republican campaign volunteers go to work."

To defeat Unfit McCain and Tom Ridge in November, it will be our turn to get up early. Otherwise, come 2009, nothing will have changed and the ongoing national nightmare will continue.

On the other hand, if McCain picks Plastic Man Mitt Romney for his veep, we can sleep in and still win. Unless, of course, Obama doesn't denounce Micheal Moore.


With love,

*Hugh E. Scott, Vietnam vet, lifelong registered Republican and ardent Obama supporter.
Seven Reasons to Vote Against Unfit McCain

*For the benefit of first-time AlterNet visitors.

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» diction, diction, diction Posted by: edgar1
» Vote Democrat! Posted by: Lloyd Drako
» RE: Vote Democrat! Posted by: ChicagoPaul
» Dirty Tricks on Obama or just Telling the TRUTH! Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
Iraq will fall and there will be hostages pt.1
Posted by: hrayovac2 on Aug 13, 2008 2:16 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The dirty s.o.b's will try the Reagan move on Obama with an inside deal laid out for McCain. He will be prompted through this and the hosatges will be released shortly after the McCain election victory. Sweet dreams.
My money is on Obama being aware of American history.

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Dealing with the Clintons
Posted by: Tom Degan on Aug 13, 2008 2:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
#4:
"Forget that this was an historic year for women"

Yes, obviously this was a very historic year for women. No one is forgetting that -certainly not I. Having said that, let me say this:

The Democrats have already blown it by letting the Clintons hijack the convention

The Clintons have even forced the Dems to put some ridiculous wording in their platform which blames Hillary's defeat in the primaries on sexism in the media. Oh, Please. She was defeated because she ran a mind-bendingly, idologically disorganized and stupid campaign.

I naively believed that Bill and Hillary had finally conceded to the inevitability of the moment and jumped on the Obama For President bandwagon. That would have been wishful thinking on my part. They are both trying to sabatoge Senator Obama's chance to be the first African American in history to call the White House home. Just last week, when approached in Africa by a reporter from the American Broadcasting Company, Bill was asked if he believed Barack Obama qualified to be president of the United States. Our man Bubbah just could not bring himself to utter one somple, three-letter-word:

"YES"

And now Hillary is determined to have her name placed in nomination at the convention, which is only bound to stir up the emotions of her starry-eyed, sycophantic, core supporters - not a hell of a lot of them, but enough to do some sreious and lasting damage. They still deeply resent the fact that their gal was defeated by this relatively unknown prarie lawyer from Illinois....Forgive me. I meant to say "freshman senator"....What was I thinking?

This is liable to get ugly, campers.

The fact that another four years of Republican control of the executive branch of our government would be the final nail in this doomed country's coffin means not a thing to Bill and Hillary Clinton. All they care about is power - raw, naked power. Neither one of them give a flying fuck about the country they profess to love so much. Neither one of them have so much as a clue as to how transparent they are in their lust to reclaim the White House. These are two, thoroughly disgusting human beings.

And you ask me why I am no longer a Democrat? Please.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"BETH QUINN APPRECIATION DAY

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» RE: Dealing with the Clintons Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: Dealing with the Clintons Posted by: nochicagoboys
» Why Does Being Wrong Feel So Right? Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: Dealing with the Clintons Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: cmaciain: Posted by: Tom Degan
» Pragmatism vs. Idealism Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: cmaciain: Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: Dealing with the Clintons Posted by: ChicagoPaul
» The GOP will get the Blame not the Clintons Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
Huh?
Posted by: EvilPoet on Aug 13, 2008 2:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What happened to steps 1-3?

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Where's the rest?
Posted by: BeckyD on Aug 13, 2008 3:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'd really like to read the rest of this article, please.

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The very best arguement to vote for
Posted by: leerhok on Aug 13, 2008 3:34 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
- GodBarack is McSame!
- McSame is GodBarack!

And the same goes for DEM and GOP!

Any doubt the old gentleman was/is right:
Something is rotten in the land of ......

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» Tomorrow never comes... Posted by: nochicagoboys
» Some facts left out........ Posted by: LionHeart
» RE: spoiled whine. Posted by: leerhok
A pessimistic but realistic appraisal
Posted by: LMNOP on Aug 13, 2008 3:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I disagree that the election is the Democrat's to lose. I think that they have an uphill battle and will be lucky to prevail. There are three factors to consider, all of which will take a piece of Obama's slim lead (about 6% now, plus or minus?)

1. Racism skews polls. When people are more liberal and tolerant in polls than they are on Election Day. This comes to surface when people are asked, "Could you vote for a black man for president?" and then "How about the members of your family?" The first category always does substantially better. People say what they think is expected of them about themselves, but project themselves more honestly onto others.

2. The slime machine has three more months to play out. They got off to a late start with Obama, concentrating instead on Hillary through April or May because it was assumed that she would be the nominee. Remember how at one point it seemed like the press was giving Obama a walk at Hillary's expense, say, about February? I believe that the Republicans unintentionally knocked Hillary into second place by harping on her exclusively for so long. Do you recall Limbaugh asking his Republican audience to vote in the Democratic primaries and to vote for Hillary? Ever wonder why? I believe it was to restore the carefully damaged Democratic candidate rather than have to start over again on Obama. As a result, he's only been smeared for about six weeks or two months. The smear has not produced any palpable results in the last month, but there are three more months to go, and that stuff is powerful. Intellectually, I know that Gore and Kerry are good men, but emotionally, there is a part of me that is unfairly and irrationally repulsed by them due to that programming, although Gore has restored himself with an Oscar and a Nobel prize since he has been largely out of their slimelight. Powerful stuff.

3. If Obama can get by the racism and slime, then there is the election tampering, which I suspect will only come out if the race is close. Nobody knows how extensive that can be - how many states are affected - what kind of penetration has been achieved with electronic ballot boxes. Then there are all of the other dirty tricks - voter purges, deliberate confusion of voting precincts, congestion of lines, etc. Florida has another Republican Secretary of State to replace Katharine Harris. A Democrat has replaced Ohio’s Blackwell. I don't know how many Republican SOS's there are, but anybody who is interested might begin with THIS LIST

These seem like a lot of hurdles for a candidate with a small lead mid-August. I wish him the best, but I have such a deep, abiding faith in the Republican's dishonesty and unwillingness to relinquish power that if Obama won, I would wonder if he wasn't one of them.

Now that's prejudice!

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» Obama reminds me of the New York Yankees Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» No thanks Posted by: LMNOP
» Thanks Posted by: LMNOP
FAITH-BASED BS
Posted by: soowee on Aug 13, 2008 4:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was unable to download items 1-3 of Michael Moore's prescription for Obama's loss in November, but I totally agree with Nos. 4-6. The gibbering doofuses are seriously in charge, and Howard Dean has been muzzled.

I would add yet another item to the prescription: embrace the twit ideas of George W. Bush and promise to expand them, like the security state as enhanced by the FISA Act and the USA PATRIOT Act, and the transfer of precious taxpayer dollars to so-called "faith-based" social programs.

I WON'T be voting for Obama in November if he does not change his tune NOW. I just won't care if McCain is elected.

H. Watkins Ellerson
PO Box 90
Hadensville, VA 23067
(804) 457-4243

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» RE: FAITH-BASED BS Posted by: Aredee
» RE: FAITH-BASED BS Posted by: soowee
» Of course you will Posted by: Hans B
» RE: Of course you will Posted by: soowee
» RE: Of course you will Posted by: soowee
» RE: FAITH-BASED BS Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: FAITH-BASED BS Posted by: soowee
» RE: FAITH-BASED BS Posted by: LMNOP
FMA in Mass
Posted by: FMABBI on Aug 13, 2008 4:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't know if I can bear another Republican administration! McCain is proving to be more of a war-monger than Bush! The military is his answer to every conflict in the world. Obama should do continuous ads about the "mindset that led us to war in the first place".

I think the best thing that could happen is to have them debate the issues - in detail - side by side. Not the silly two minute stuff they call a debate. The contrast would be striking.

We have to get the new voters out to the polls. But let's not forget about the Congress' lack of spine and complete ineptitude. Let's get some folks in there who represent US - you know - us people and not big money.

We, the voters, have to make our elected representatives ACCOUNTABLE. By focusing too much attention on just the Presidential race and not enough to the other co-equal branches we are doing ourselves a great injustice. Congress has the authority to declare war and to manage the treasury - not the President.

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» Get lost Posted by: LMNOP
Moore does not know the American people
Posted by: edgar1 on Aug 13, 2008 4:21 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"They don't like war"

This comedian, who thinks he's a political pollster and sociological analyst, states the above quote which is neither true nor false. People don't "like" war. Of course not. But about half of the public consistently doesn't want a quick pullout from Iraq(even Obama only wants a partial withdrawal after 16 months of his Presidency). Moreover, most people don't seem to object to the increasingly pointless and costly war in Afghanistan.

Finally, this genius has been in Hollywood too long. He has no idea of the vast numbers of Americans whose livelihood depends on military, homeland security and intelligence spending. Like the Germans under Hitler, Americans can't just say "WE didn't know and we didn't start the war".

Bush started the Iraq War and the 9/11 terron campaign with great public acclaim. Despite the manipulation of the media by Bush, the public continues to support a massive military industrial complex and its activities regardless of disclosures about lies and forgeries that lead to war.

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» Don't care about either war? Posted by: kabac55
What Is This?
Posted by: thebeerdoctor on Aug 13, 2008 4:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is with the editing of the Michael Moore article, first published in the The Guardian/UK. Here is a gem from the original source that did not find its way to the "edited" Alternet version:

Keep writing speeches for Obama like the one in front of the American Israeli lobbying group the day after the final primaries. Here's what he said: "The danger from Iran is grave, it is real, and my goal is to eliminate this threat." And: "Let there be no doubt: I will always keep the threat of military actions on the table to defend our security and our ally Israel. Sometimes there are no alternatives to confrontation."
Sounds like a speech McCain would give. Sounds like he's ready to invade Iran. He staked out an even worse position for the Palestinians vis-a-vis Jerusalem than the one held by George W Bush.

There is more of Moore that was left out. For those who want to read the complete text, Google up: Michael Moore/The Guardian.

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» RE: What Is This? Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: What Is This? Posted by: StillStanding
Missing Pieces
Posted by: StillStanding on Aug 13, 2008 4:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Surviving Anarchy for Dummies.....
Posted by: zootlux on Aug 13, 2008 4:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Extrapolate the Conservative agenda out a few years. I get visions of neighborhood anarchy.. life or death food fights..

A Vote For McCain is a Vote for the end..

Inkling

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He's Right
Posted by: shill on Aug 13, 2008 4:27 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't agree with Mr. Moore on everything, especially universal health care. It's not that I don't think that our health care system needs revamping; it's just that I have noticed that whenever the government gets ahold of something , our public schools for example, things generally do not get better, they get worse! However, Mr. Moore is ABSOLUTELY correct here! If the Democrats and Mr. Obama want to win, they are going to have to fight, unless they have too much to hide, or are just wimps! Obama has ALWAYS been the underdog because of his race, name, and the fact that we DON'T know that much about him. This makes him easy prey for lies such as him being secretly a Muslim. (Although I'm not acquainted with the part in the Constitution that says a Muslim CAN'T be president, in these times, the Republicans know that Muslims are not exactly in favor with a lot of people.) Barack had better come out swinging and KEEP swinging until the dust clears or he WILL lose!

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» RE: Glad you brought up public schools Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: Glad you brought up public schools Posted by: BigElectricCat
» Government Bungling Posted by: OligarchyNot
» RE: Government Bungling Posted by: ChicagoPaul
» RE: He's Right Posted by: Blacktiger
"swift boats are a-comin, they comin tonight.."
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Aug 13, 2008 4:24 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jerome Corsi has already daggered Obamarama with a piece of shit book that will make No. 1 on the NYT list this weekend. He swift-boated Kerry to oblivion in '04 and he will be formidable in '08. So.....what is Obamarama's response? Er, let me take it under advisement. Uh, its all bullshit, I smoked but I never inhaled and I gave it up anyway. Uh, let's let Bill Clinton dominate the Denver hog-calling....that'll win the day. Oh, let's sell some Georgia tees and embarrass Russia....wait a minute, Georgia is rated #1 in the pre-season football polls...how the hell will that help? Better yet. Stand tall Obamarama and tell those yearning to breathe free that labor matters, dignity matters, pride matters, honesty and integrity are assets, healthcare is a concomitant, corporate crime is anathema, white collar criminals should be prosecuted and, godammit, drilling anywhere in the Gulf, Pacific, Atlantic etc. will not produce as favorable a result as ramming a drilling pipe up your ass to understand why Americans are pissed off and are looking to you for the only change that seems available. That this is a mystery makes my point that Obamarama is just another bullshit artist and we have seen too many of those to tolerate another.

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» KUCINICH IS THE ANSWER!!!!! Posted by: Col. Jackleg
» RE: About Obama -Part I Posted by: ChicagoPaul
» RE: About Obama -Part II Posted by: ChicagoPaul
Ah, the democrats
Posted by: chlamor on Aug 13, 2008 4:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Supporting Democrats is a serious political disorder, like alcoholism or returning again & again to an abusive spouse who repeatedly lies to you. It's easy to fall off the wagon, to make excuses & rationalizations for it.

Even many whose views are developed enough to recognize such truths as the fundamental rottenness of the 2-party system & the complicity of Democrats in all of the Republicans' major crimes, are still unable to draw the logical consequences of these insights. (Those so naive that they still conceive of Democrats as being the "opponents" of Republicans are another case altogether.)

The central point is this: capitalist society permits the Democrats to be one of the 2 allowed parties for a very definite reason. It's not because the Democrats "serve the people." It's because in a subtle but effective way, they help the capitalists keep the populace under control by providing them with the illusion of possible change. TPTB don't want the people "served." They want them managed, or controlled.

It is the job, the central social function of the Democrats to always be dangling before the people's noses vague pseudo-hints of possible change, so as to keep them from bolting from bourgeois politics altogether. It is the Democrats' intention to never deliver meaningful change, but rather to keep dangling hints of it alluringly forever. This produces control -- a populace habituated to remain safely within the lines required by ruling class interests.

This is why the Democrats NEVER paint a picture of US history that's the slightest bit accurate -- they want a brainwashed population every bit as much as the Republicans do. This is why they NEVER are willing to set forth an honest socioeconomic analysis of why things are as they are -- they much prefer that people not understand such things.

As long as a large chunk of voters can be deceived by the seemingly "nicer guy" act of the Democrats, there is no hope whatever of coming to grips with the core problems of our society. The most dangerous trends -- a wasteful consumer society, environmental destruction, grotesque social inequality, and an uncontrollable propaganda/war machine -- cannot even be approached within the framework of bourgeois politics, because they all serve ruling class interests. This is what is really being protected, when people opt to support Democrats just because they seem less blatantly cruel on TV.

Get away from the dog and pony show folks it's heading exactly nowhere.

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» RE: Ah, the democrats Posted by: Erin
» chlamor, you nailed it. Posted by: GuitarBill
» Is Alternet listening? Posted by: LionHeart
» RE: Ah, the democrats Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Ah, the democrats Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Ah, the democrats Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Ah, the democrats Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: Ah, the democrats Posted by: Basenjis
HELLO MR. PROOF-READER . . . WAKE UP!
Posted by: newsound on Aug 13, 2008 5:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Come on guys! I love Michael Moore's writing and you butcher it.

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What the....?
Posted by: beautifulady2003 on Aug 13, 2008 5:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just read the entire article as published in the Guardian. I can't believe AlterNet published this eviscerated piece of crap instead. Shame. Guys, go to the Guardian website and read the article. It's so much better than this gutted gobbledygook. I don't know why AlterNet saw fit to edit the living daylights out of it (and screw it up badly, I might add), but they really blew it.

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» RE: What the....? Posted by: Basenjis
America Loves 'Tough'
Posted by: Virginia Harris on Aug 13, 2008 5:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks to the suffragettes, who were the epitome of 'tough,' we had the opportunity to vote for a great candidate like Hillary Clinton.

But most people are totally in the dark about HOW the suffragettes won. It was not by backing down!

Now you can discover the sexy, shocking truth of how the suffragettes did it, and it's as easy as opening your e-mail.

"The Privilege of Voting" is a new e-mail series that follows eight great women from 1912 - 1920 to reveal ALL that happened to set the stage for women to win the vote.

Two beautiful and extremely powerful suffragettes -- Alice Paul and Emmeline Pankhurst are featured, along with Edith Wharton, Isadora Duncan, Alice Roosevelt and two gorgeous presidential mistresses.

There are a LOT of hot affairs, and tons of heartache on the rocky road to the ballot box.

Presented in a unique sequential e-mail series -- each exciting episode is a about 10 minutes -- perfect to enjoy during coffeebreaks, or anytime.

Subscribe free at

www.CoffeebreakReaders.com/tpovpage.html

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ALTERNET PROVED MICHAEL MOORE RIGHT BY CENSORING HIS ARTICLE !!!
Posted by: Last Chance on Aug 13, 2008 5:32 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By chopping off steps I, 2 and 3 of Moore's article, Alternet joined the Republican saboteurs inside the Democratic Party determined to force Barack Obama to the wimp-out center and lose all the radicalized Americans who desperately need progressive change in their lives and progressive change in the nation. Thus, the very word "progressive" loses its meaning when seemingly Left Wing "pundits" water down the people's demand for change to whatever the boys in the back room will have! TREACHERY! This is one of the reasons I predict the coming election will be a manipulated cliff-hanger with McCain winning by a few votes, just like 2000 and 2004! What a filthy sewer of corruption the USA has become!!!!

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» misnomer corrected. Posted by: Last Chance
How Bloggers (US) can help Obama stay on the High Road
Posted by: Purple Girl on Aug 13, 2008 5:40 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't want to see Obama slip into the mud, nor any from his campaign. I want a new way of Campaigning to start with. So It is OUR responsiblity to ignore & educate Others about the lies Mac's handlers are dealing.
case in point..discussing Health care issues with my 75 yr old Repub mom, I informed her of how Mac 'released' his medical records- she understood who documentation can be heiroglyphics to the uneducated reader.she caught my drift about how Mac's health conditions could have been overlooked- 3 hours & no medical Professionals reviewing.That gave her more pause about his candidacy- which she is alrady leary of anyway...Even she is not buying Him and beginning to wonder what happen to His 'old self'
Cheney Corp has played this scenario far too many times.. the koolaid is wearing off.
Perhaps the 'left' who has aided them, will also come to realize their part in these follies- Now they they have begun to hold Gore in high esteem, who they berated in '00 too!
The only way we will get our country out of the Corp Strangle hold is to work together with those few remaining patriots in the Republican party, and by recognizing and rejecting those who have infiltrated Ours (Clintons, Fenstein,Pelosi, Hoyer,Schummer,Reid,Levin..- Neo Cons in Blue).Watch which Dems are not giving it their All, and you will notice their 'Red Slips'.
To finally end this facade of 'bipartisanship' which has been a 'divide & conquer' stratedgy for decades we need to enlist the help of those who have been willing to cross the line in the name of National Interest
Hagel has come out against the War, against this admin, Has been a advocate for the troops/Vets for decades, 2 purple hearts, Awards from teachers, farmers, autistic children.. organizations. He has great foreign policy knowledge, cuts the legs out from undr Mac's service claims (hagel & Brother were ON THE GROUND IN VIETNAM), Nebraska & virginains wanted him a their Senator He'll bring Old School Republicans and Independents to the polls to vote for this ticket.....He can Prove when it comes to Patriotism, Dems and Real Americans are Color blind Let's end the decades long Control Neo Cons from both sides have had on our ocuntry, defeat them from within both parties.
Not all Republicans are evil, nor all Dem's Saints. we need to elect those who have proven they still work for US!

OBAMA/HAGEL '08

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POINTS 1-3????????????
Posted by: wellaware lec on Aug 13, 2008 5:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
GET THEM ONLINE...WHAT IS THAT ALL ABOUT?

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» RE: POINTS 1-3???????????? Posted by: Last Chance
How The Reptilians can Steal It....In Six Easy Steps
Posted by: williameon on Aug 13, 2008 6:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A blueprint for stealing the most losable presidential election in American history.

History repeats itself, if you do nothing about it.

Mike in 2006 you had cameras at the poles. What did you find out? What happened to the Black Box Selection Movie and the Footage?

1 The False Media tells everybody that the election is close. That way when it is stolen again, nobody will know any better.

2 Prepare caging lists and station Dark Army thugs to intimidate voters at the pole and on the way to the poles. All the work is already done, and all of these vote tampering mechanisms are already in place. Pole workers will give the third degree to all Democrats by asking them difficult questions and asking for a different forms of ID then provided. All of these methods will activate before and after the voting starts. Station Emigration, Rental, State and Local Police at the poles, around the poles or on the routes to the Poles for the expressed purpose of intimidation..

3 Send out mailings to Democrats listing the wrong address for their poling places. Place signs pointing voters to go in the wrong direction. Put fewer voting machines and broken voting machines in Democratic Districts so that the lines are so long that people find it impossible to wait. Provide touch screen voting machines that are easily tampered with and that provide no verifiable paper trail.

4 Spoiled Ballots, Hanging chads, Touch Screen Machines, a lack of standards for provisional Ballots and a lack of Paper Ballots all add up to one thing: disenfranchised voters and stolen votes. They will use every dirty trick in Carl Roves Black Book to steal this Election and stay in Power.

5 The Propaganda Minister Rovien issues propaganda decree after propaganda decree instructing the Media to attack Obama, which the Mass Media talking heads Parrots repeatedly: verbatim: 1000+ times using the FAUX Media BULLHORN. Talk about conditioning. All rebuttals are put on page 13 of the newspaper or limited to a short soft spoken comment, at the end of a show. McPain moves to the Black House in anticipation of the Win. FOX NEWS declares McPain the winner even before the poles close. After, the exit poles declares Obama the winner in a land slide, McPain goes on closed circuit TV from the Black House and tells everyone: The Poles are wrong and just wait till the votes are counted. Smirk, Smirk, Wink, Wink! All the FAUX MEDIA outlets carry his message and repeat it endlessly in a loop.

6 Delay results and delay any requests for a recount of the votes. Throw the Ballots from the Troops overseas into the Garbage. Destroy ballots and deny ballots. Provide a cheat sheet to the pole workers, to tamper with the electronic results, so the counts will match and no recount will be in order. Deny free access to voter records. Leave ballots in unsecured areas. Fix any recount by using vote tampering irregularities.

The Proof is in The Pudding.

They will steal 20 Million Votes in the 08.

They Stole Hundreds of thousands in 2000
10 Million in 04 and
Twice that many in 2008.

Job One well done!
Destroy America and
Appoint another King.

This is the Monster we must face.
The Lying, Spying, Mass Murdering, Torturous, Terrorizing,
GREEDY:
CORPIRATE Aristocracy!

They will do anything to stay in Power?
Kill thousands!
Steal Votes!
Appoint Crooked Judges!
False Flags?
Been there, and done that!

The Media never made a Peep.

Mike, that’s the real problem!
Stop blaming it on the Victim.

The question is:
Who’s pulling the strings?

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» How The Reptilians can Steal It....In Six Easy Steps Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» I agree 100% Posted by: OligarchyNot
one more WAKE UP EDITORS
Posted by: somegirl on Aug 13, 2008 6:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
please correct this story already.

and take out the "advertisement" placeholders too while you're at it. sheesh.

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Six Easy Steps?
Posted by: EinMD on Aug 13, 2008 6:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is it just me or does this article start at 4?

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» RE: Six Easy Steps? Posted by: cheonast
» RE: Six Easy Steps? Posted by: Last Chance
McCain=Don Rickles
Posted by: zooeyhall on Aug 13, 2008 6:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't know about you, but McCain looks alot like an emaciated Don Rickles.

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Start the impeachment Nancy.
Posted by: Lauren on Aug 13, 2008 6:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pelosi Takes Heat from Right and Left

Crooks and Liars Pelosi says she “hasn’t read” Articles of Impeachment!

Marin Independent Journal

"I don't agree that it's a good idea to impeach the president unless we have a real case against him," Pelsoi said, when asked by the Marin Independent Journal about the criticism during a reception that preceded her talk. "You can't impeach a president because you disagree with his policies. You have to have some high crimes and misdemeanors."

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Michael Moore Web Site.....
Posted by: picket on Aug 13, 2008 6:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a great place to visit directly...

http://www.michaelmoore.com/

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McBush, McSame, McWhatever
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Aug 13, 2008 6:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
LOL, All I know is that if McBush wins, the Sheeple are DOOMED. I am in the process of getting a dual citizenship so I can RUN from the US if that moron gets elected, and I will never look back.

JT
Ultimate Anonymity

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Link to the full Guardian article
Posted by: pandalix on Aug 13, 2008 6:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How to blow it

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EDITOR! AHEM!!
Posted by: markie1024 on Aug 13, 2008 6:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
PLEASE PUT IN THE REST OF MICHAEL'S POINTS!!!
THANK YOU

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Some of the text of M. Moore's article is missing from this posted version
Posted by: mcgreivey on Aug 13, 2008 6:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...most obviously, the first 3 of the '6 Ways Dems Can Blow It'.

You can read the whole article at Michael Moore's website: http://www.michaelmoore.com/mustread/index.php?id=1035

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stick to movies, Mike
Posted by: inspired1 on Aug 13, 2008 6:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Listen to your own rhetoric, Mike.

You want the Democratic candidate to be and act like he is not the Democratic candidate.

You well know where Obama and the whole reality-ignoring, Constitution-shredding Democratic campaign is coming from and how it's funded. What are you expecting?

Where were you when Kucinich and Edwards were tossed aside from debates by the media and no one from the other Democratic candidates even bothered to yawn, much less complain. What exactly is "democratic" about this process anyway, Mike? It is all about a thinly veiled process for corporate America to pick its next shills, that is dressed up as an "election."

It's called Cognitive Dissonance: people don't want to face what they see and know is real because it goes against their pre-conceived notions and desires.

"537 votes" in 2000, is it now, Mikey? Are YOU selling this old propaganda, too? Gee, I thought that that was the result of cheating, throwing away ballots and using a phony "felons' list" to prevent mostly black people from voting. My bad. Why don't you read Greg Palast's "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" It's 8 years old, but there's still time to learn something.

Speaking about learning something and 8 years ago, in 2000 you stood at the podium in Madison Square Garden and told a vibrant cheering crowd of people seeking REAL change without excuses,that "The lesser of two evils is still Evil!" It was true then, what makes it untrue now? Obama's flip-flopping and cowardice is only matched by your own, apparently.

...and you still speak disparagingly of Nader...what a clown. You serve the interest of those who lie and mis-represent us, even when they go out of their way to disown you!? Find out where your friends really are.

Upir "six-point campaign" is designed to help your new "Democratic family" to learn to "spin" the campaign rhetoric better. Why not actually have them have their candidates talk about the truth about what is going on in America, and denounce the destruction of our laws and Constitution, spying, torture, ignoring social realities, and insane war-fever, that ARE the concerns of the people who would LOVE to find real, courageous leaders. REAL courageous leaders? Like Nader and Cynthia McKinney? Oh ignore them. They are meaningless and irrelevant because they point out what is going on, but are not part of the circus. And you still expect "change"? Oh, c'mon.

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» RE: stick to movies, Mike Posted by: BlueSun
Here's the URL for the whole article
Posted by: Last Chance on Aug 13, 2008 7:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Apparently, AlterNet editors decided to accede to protests of censordhip. Whatever.
Anyway, here it is: How To Blow It

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» Try again Posted by: Last Chance
Rookie Senator vs RINO Republican
Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals on Aug 13, 2008 7:33 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
McCain gets rapped for going negative...But the Left dose all the dirty work for Obama?

This race is already lost for the Democrats because they are showing there moonbat colors.

Maybe in 2012 (wait thats Mitt's turn)
Maybe in 2020 (wait thats Bobby's turn)
Maybe... never

Stick to ruin great American Cities like Detroit and taxing away the middle class out of states like Massachusetts, New York (both up and down state) and California.

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» Hugh, grow up! Posted by: LionHeart
» The wing nuts chime in Posted by: GuitarBill
sarcasm is cute but.......
Posted by: nearblindjames on Aug 13, 2008 7:34 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.......we better all work together and put Sen. Obama in the White House no matter what he says or does between now and election day. And work to elect as many Reps and Sens Democratic too or else we won't have the filibuster proof numbers to actually get stuff done. There will be mistakes made by the Obama campaign -- they are trying their best I know. But PLEASE don't anybody do something stupid like "voting for a Nader just to prove a point" because you dont' like the latest ad or the approaches taken. The point will be made and the result will be President McCain. Sen. Obama may not be the perfect candidate and may be leaning a little too far right and may do some other things I am not 100% in favor of. But he is the only other candidate running that can win and that means it's the only chance we have of starting to turn America back around.

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» So did I. Posted by: Hans B
I really think Obama was told to "chill"
Posted by: nikolai on Aug 13, 2008 7:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
by AIPAC and Bilderberg. Ever since he met with them he has toned things WAY down. "Hey, nice family there, Barak!" Just sayin'...

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big tent
Posted by: jstepp590 on Aug 13, 2008 7:58 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is what I meant earlier and also something Michael Moore commented on above, that we have to cast our tent big enough to take in the traditionally Republican voters whose party has left them behind. Them, well, does it suprise anyone here that I have traditionally been Republican? That I am not really liberal but consider myself independent? Yet here people like HughScott and I are, showing more loyalty to the Democratic candidate than many members of their own party! It is because we share many of the same values and a lot of the division between dems and Reps, libs and conservatives, is manufactured.

It seems like some people here are disturbed about some of Obama's "reversals" in the last year. Well, it is understandable because we need change and it seemed like he capitulated. However, he and his staff and the DNC are choosing their battles until they can solidify control over the Congress and White House. They are doing this because they feel they are weak.

The reason they are weak is that we haven't shown them that we will support them. That they have our strength behind them because we share many of the same visions and beliefs as they do. Not all the same beliefs and values but many of them. We won't get everything we want but we will get many of them, but only as long as we give them our support because that gives us control over them. They cannot afford to lose us as their base and that is our handle.

The more support we give them the more they will feel empowered to take on these incredibly powerful entities that have taken over our political system. We the people are the only power strong enough to take these interests head on and in their face. This is a fight just like a battle or gang violence, nobody wants to move forward by themselves against a large powerfull group of enemies without a lot of people behind them. Nobody wants to take all the flack by themselves just to go down in defeat and ruin and failure.

It comes down to us. We either support him and win or we do not support him and we fail. To hold out for every single issue that has taken our current fancy and refusing to bend on anything or he loses our support is absurd. You want to change things? You want to move our country closer to our values? Well, the only one who can do that is the ones staring us in the mirror every day. Change has to start small and grow one step at a time. We will also take two steps forward on one back. As the French say c'est le vie (such is life). However without our efforts we won't get the two steps forward, just one back.

It's up to us. Are we angry? Are we smart? Are we tough? Do we have the capacity to work as a team, regardless of manufactured labels, with others around us? Then lets do it. Let's get people in control of our country who feel closer to what we do and then we can demand significant change. All it takes is our support.

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» RE: big tent Posted by: using
» RE: big tent Posted by: jstepp590
Change?
Posted by: hcb1975 on Aug 13, 2008 8:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Michael Moore cites the reasons that I've already withdrawn my support for Obama. I'm the base, I'm the diehard Democrat who has never voted anything but in my life. But this election I choose "none of the above." People say that I'm an idealist because I expect integrity. It's really disheartening. Sorry, Obama, but change to me isn't doing exactly the same thing.

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» RE: Change? Posted by: jstepp590
Obama vs. McBush
Posted by: Aredee on Aug 13, 2008 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Part of me thinks that one reason the polls are so close right now is because a lot of people don't start thinking about the election until after Labor Day. The debates will show how capable Obama is, especially when McCain has one "senior moment" after another. (Disclosure: I consider myself to be an "aging flatulent", so no ageism is implied here).

The other part of my split personality is appalled that after eight years of GOP disaster--based on the foundation laid down almost thirty years ago by that other dementia patient, Ray-gun, that the entire Republican party hasn't already been tarred and feathered and sent out of town on a rail.

I keep telling myself that Obama has a great sense of political timing and surrounds himself with talented, competent people, and after the conventions, they'll have a winning strategy and pull ahead.

Meanwhile, Obama has to stop allowing McBush and his Swiftboaters to set the agenda. They've made this campaign a referendum on Obama, when it should be a referendum on McCain and how he's unfit for the office, how his Senate voting record is 95% with the Bush-Cheney cabal. Instead of "McCain says X, Obama replies", the Obama campaign needs to go on the attack. As Moore said in his piece, we don't have to play dirty about this; the McBush years are such as cesspool that it shouldn't be difficult to demonstrate how four more years of it will be a catastrophe.

As for Joe Sixpack--that IS a problem. Mike Smith had a great cartoon in USA Today a couple of weeks ago. The gist of it was: after two best selling books, the cover of every major magazine, almost two dozen primary debates, and the cable 24-hour news cycle, Joe is depicted as saying "I still don't know who Obama is."

We might sober ourselves up by reading Paul Krugman's recent column about the GOP and its appeal to stupidity, and take to heart Barack's quip that "(t)hese guys seem to be proud of their ignorance". This is a dangerous approach, given the phony "elitism" charges that have been hurled against him, but maybe shaming people out of their ignorance will work: nothing else seems to. If we can get people to be ashamed of their crabgrass, certainly there has to be a way to knock some political sense into them.

(BTW, Krugman's piece appeared on 8/8/08--the board would not allow me to post the URL for it here.)

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» RE: Obama vs. McBush Posted by: jstepp590
You Said it Mike, NADER!
Posted by: Godzilla1916 on Aug 13, 2008 8:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, Democrats have shown themselves to be a party of appeasement. I can not in good faith sacrifice my meager vote to such a spineless party of reactionaries. I have only voted once for a Democrat; in 2004, and I do believe I shall never again. My vote shall go to Mr. Ralph Nader and Matt Gonzalez; unlike the corporate candidates who stick to a narrow message until their handlers allow them to take a half-step, Ralph expresses himself freely on issues that affect me every day. Let's face it folks, we are in the decline of the American Superpower, thanks to the Republican neocon machine (with Democratic compliance); Russia is flexing it's new imperialistic oil backed might; climate change looms like an apocalyptic plague; and our working class society is losing it’s hard fought for position in the declining American economy. Yes we need leadership, and we need it fast! America needs an authentic leadership that can restore the dignity and responsibility of nation building to its citizens. I believe Ralph Nader and Matt Gonzalez can restore to the American people the government of the people. I sincerely hope for and believe in a democracy; however I do not believe I live in one. The current plutocracy does not represent me or meet the needs of my family or friends. The rich get richer and more entitled (yes you, Victoria Osteen) and the rest of us are being left to rot in neglected educational systems and extremely limited health care facilities.

“The happiness of the people was the purpose of government, and therefore that form of government was best which produced the greatest amount of happiness for the largest number of people.” -John Adams

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» RE: You Said it Mike, NADER! Posted by: jstepp590
» RE: You Said it Mike, NADER! Posted by: Godzilla1916
» No bitch; I promise. Posted by: edgar1
Like Lakoff and Waldman, but better
Posted by: leftymathprof on Aug 13, 2008 8:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think Moore's article is great!

Some of his points about how to campaign are similar to points that Lakoff and Waldman have been making for years. I would refer especially to Lakoff's book "Thinking Points" and Waldman's "Being Right is Not Enough"; the former is available for free downloading from the web at

rockridgeinstitute.org/thinkingpoints

Those guys explain the stuff on a more theoretical level. So read their books if you're not convinced that Moore is right about how to campaign. But they're not nearly as much fun as Moore.

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Michael Moore Brings Out Trolls in Record Numbers
Posted by: ChicagoPaul on Aug 13, 2008 8:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess I'm not surprised, but I do wonder how many of them are actually paid to spend their time infiltrating places like AlterNet?

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Number one should be
Posted by: IronNose on Aug 13, 2008 9:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not respond forcefully to the fairy tale of offshore drilling the Republicans are selling as a central means of lowering energy prices. I think it's pretty apparent they plan to continue pounding this blatantly phony "solution" until the election; it has already been shown by polls to be gaining traction with many voters. It is just the type of simplistic, soundbyte ready issue Republicans love: "Drill Here, Drill Now, Pay Less".

The Democrats have to respond in a way that treats voters like they are adults who can handle complexity. Besides, the truth is on their side. The Energy Dept. itself has said the effect of expanded offshore leasing would not be felt until about 2030, and even then it would be insignificant. Surprise! Surprise! Leases are just another Republican proposal that would simply enrich their corporate constituency, would have little to no effect on short or long-term energy costs and carry serious environmental risks (they are lying about that too). Why haven't I heard the Democrats come out and say that strongly and clearly in reponse to the Republicans' propaganda onslaught?

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» RE: Number one should be Posted by: ChicagoPaul
The White Knight
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Aug 13, 2008 9:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One way to eliminate (or to defeat) the White Knight is to have a piece on the chessboard capture him. In that way, the Black King will have a better chance of winning.
All it takes is Barack to remove the bolt which holds McCain's armor; and once it's removed he'll be exposed and he won't be able to ride on his horse anymore.
Satire notwithstanding, the Donkeys can't blow this upcoming election. We cannot afford to have that old blunderbuss in office.

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Stop being Buffaloed people......
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Aug 13, 2008 9:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have the 'appearence of choice' not real choice. Winners and losers are picked way in advance of any election. If you think American politics is fair,then you probably believe Lincoln lived in a log cabin all his life,Nixon was good for America, Reaganomics helped the people and 9/11 was done by Bin Laden. The system is counting on Hilary making a rukus at the convention and creating dissent in the party,just like the '72 democrats for Nixon camopaign.
We need to stop supporting both Party's, with our money,our useless votes and following their leads. Doing that has got us where we are now. In debt,in war,in fear of losing more Rights,Freedoms and Liberties and the greater implamintation of ther US Police State.
We don't have seven ways to lose. We have two.
The Democrats and the Republicans,and who's helping us lose? The controlled Media.
Think for Yourself,Free Yourself. You are your own best leader. Stop giving away your power to those who wish to ubuse it.
WRITE-IN Jeffrey7 for Prez '08

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» RE: You Actually Have FOUR Choices Posted by: ChicagoPaul
» WHAT IS WRONG WITH Posted by: zyclop
I forgot to mention the corporate owned media...
Posted by: feduphoosier on Aug 13, 2008 9:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You are right on the money (sorry, bad pun.)

The Democrats DO vote for our interests from time to time, and thus appear to not be entirely corrupt... yet... wherein lies my only hope for our democracy. I am represented by a 'Blue Dog,' which is something between a Democrat and a Republican. The only real key to his voting patterns is to study his campaign contributors and figure out what they want (although he us up for re-election this year, so he is tilting further to the left than usual.)

The corporate media has to be the biggest asset to the Republican party, as they serve the interests of the corporations that own them.

They prefer the Republican platform because it serves the corporate world completely and unabashedly, without any surprises or risks. Democrats are a bit of a risk, but many (enough) can be bought via campaign contributions or perhaps lobbyist perks.

The corporate media is endlessly hiding, under-reporting or frankly lying about the real issues affecting our domestic and foreign policy, while bombarding us with threatening 'be afraid' terrorist scares... or focusing on ridiculous non-news items that entertain the masses while keeping them happily uninformed. I also look to the internet, Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert for my news.

“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”

- Adolf Hitler

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News Flash for you Idiots.
Posted by: douglashoyt on Aug 13, 2008 9:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The corporate elite are going to "win" this phony election.

There are no other political parties given their rightful hearing in this so called "democracy."

The only ideas being promoted are ruling elite corporate dogma.

Therefore, you blind idiots are being conditioned to believe there is only one way the Democrat/Republican way or the hiway.

You fools deserve what you are going to get.

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» RE: News Flash for you Idiots. Posted by: nochicagoboys
Were dead in November
Posted by: bh on Aug 13, 2008 9:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We lost this election long ago. I predict we get beat in a landslide come fall. We won't attack, were not aggressive, we won't play hard ball. Maybe the Neo's are right, we are a bunch of wimps. We should be kicking McSames rear end and in some polls McSame is ahead. What a joke! Dear Dems we are so screwed, Again. This time we will be out of the White House for a century!

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» RE: Were dead in November Posted by: jstepp590
The Candidate
Posted by: Southern Gal on Aug 13, 2008 9:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Democrats' presidential candidate is the junior senator from Illinois. He is lacking in governmental experience. He is a lawyer and a politician. He makes great speeches and inspires young people and fanatics. He was making sense in the presidential primary until he won it. Then he began to recant his progressive positions on many issues. His vote for FISA was the ultimate clue, that he is no progressive. He has strong corporate backing and is rapidly moving to the Center and Republican lite. Be truthful and say that we must vote for him because he's not as bad as Bush/McCain. Im disgusted and turned off by these candidates and this election. I hate to say this but I think that a vote for Nadar will help McCain. Even Bob Barr got it right on FISA. The current system just does not allow for a viable third party candidate. I'm not stupid and I will vote for Obama because I don't believe that his policies are as bad as McCain's. Too bad he didn't live up to his early rhetoric and give us change that we could believe in.

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» RE: The Candidate Posted by: ChicagoPaul
» RE: The Candidate Posted by: beautifulady2003
One more way: don't support space industry
Posted by: DeeOhGee on Aug 13, 2008 9:33 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's one more you haven't thought of.
Last week the email being sent around by my Rep. co-workers said "Obama sidesteps Moon, Mars question." and the editorial comment was "as predicted."

This is a no-brainer and a horrible lack of insight for any Democrat to fail to enthusiastically endorse what is one of the most popular and beneficial programs in the country.

NOt only is it inspiring and forward looking, it is a wedge against the anti-intellectual, anti-science platform of the fundamentalist Republican base.

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» WHY? Posted by: edgar1
BREAKING NEWS FROM CNN!!!
Posted by: HughScott on Aug 13, 2008 9:55 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Speaking from the Rose Garden today, President Bush threatened to attack Russia if it burned down Atlanta.

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whirlwood
Posted by: whirlwood on Aug 13, 2008 9:56 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I like Michael Moore. I agree with most of what he is saying. My problem with these articles criticizing the whimpy Democrats and Obama and Kerry before him is the overwhelming aspect of "the elephant in the living room". The corporate media. It overwhelms EVERYTHING. Every attack, which Michael is calling for, is used against Obama. Every retreat. Every move to the center. Every brilliant speach. Europe. Hawaii. You would think that Obama was in a threesome with Edwards. I think that until the fairness in broadcasting act is brought back, and it would need a fillibuster proof majority, the democrats will continue to win the debates and loose the elections. The average I.Q. on the bell curve is 100. How many of Alternet readers hang out with friends with 100 I.Q.'s? Middle class republicans/oxy-morons. (my bumper sticker). Break up the media should be the number one plank. Of coarse, this has as much chance of happening as public funded elections, paper reciepts on voting machines, and Al Gore's 10 year energy plan, not to mention ending the tax cuts, restoring the constitution and not calling corporations people. Obama can only win on his pure talent. I think he will. I think he is that gifted. Go Obama!!!

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Political Realities have lost what it is to be Progressive
Posted by: djnoll on Aug 13, 2008 10:02 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have read several of the posts here as well as the entire article, and it seems to me that not only have the Obama Handlers like David Plouffe have found themselves between a rock and a hard place. I kept hoping that Hillary and Bill would force the party apart, so that Obama could peel away the real Progressives and Independents and be the first President elected as a true People's President. Oh, well, so much for fantasy and wishful thinking.

Now for reality. Obama is not yet the party candidate, he will not be until August 28th. He cannot say anything at this point that he might have to refute later, because the platform was hijacked by corporate flunkies and political monstrosities like the Clintons, Pelosi, and Howard Dean, none of whom have a single clear understanding of what a Progressive actually is.

Progressives, contrary to Democratic definitions, are slightly to the left of center, but not very far. They are conservative financially, reasonably well educated (either in schools or on the streets), they are neither rich nor poor, and they are aware that this country needs to change to become sustainable, economically sound. They include environment in their decision making, and they oppose war, except when absolutely necessary to stop attacks on this nation (like Afghanistan was suppose to be, but what has been forgotten by the media). They support strong law enforcement, but without prejudice and racial profiling, but they oppose the death penalty, in general. They support programs that provide not just a safety net, but also a hand up, not a hand out; a program that actually benefits clients, not corporations like our current slavery program called Welfare to Work. They support universal health care for everyone, especially children, and they want a strong, financially sound Social Security program that is not an open checkbook for Congress and the President instead of the elderly and disabled.

The above is the clearly defined Progressive as written about by Dr. Paul Ray and published on his website. You can find it by googling Dr. Ray. It is a word that has been co-opted by the Democrats, but which they clearly do not understand who Progressives are. Obama understands who they are, and at one time until pressured by the DNC, so did his handlers. Real Progressives are not just Democrats, they are from both parties as well as independents.

As long as Obama is the Democratic Party candidate, he will be hamstrung by their policies, and McCain could very well win. People like the Clintons, Pelosi, Reid, and Dean are all losers and they are dragging this country down with them through ego, cowardice, racism, and victimization as a lifestyle.

It was made clear yesterday that Clinton could not even control her own campaign and deferred to her husband constantly. This is not a leader, either for a nation or for a party platform. Dean lost in 2004 because he was out of control. Pelosi and Reid have shown themselves to be cowards who bow to Republican threats and blackmail and sell out America in the process.

Whether you like Obama or not is moot. At this time in history, we need to not only vote him in as President or we will be in the middle of WWIII and living in a military Republican fascist state within 3 years, but we also need to put as many true progressives - Democrat, Independent, or whatever - into the House and the Senate. If we can do that, then whatever platform the party forces on Obama becomes moot, and he can return to what he started out to be - a People's Candidate, not a party shill.

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DEMOCRATS REPEAT: "If anypone can do it..."
Posted by: Voicedude on Aug 13, 2008 10:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"....WE CAN DO IT!"

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The election could be over if the fat man sings...
Posted by: jimidee on Aug 13, 2008 10:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and nobody listens.

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US Democrats and Republicans
Posted by: opmoc on Aug 13, 2008 10:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Should Join Together and Fight The NAZI's Currently in Power

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Ropa-Dope
Posted by: willymack on Aug 13, 2008 10:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sen. Obama seems oddly quiet lately, doesn't he? He reminds me of Muhammed Ali in his glory days. He'd get into the ring with hulking giants who could pulverize him with one punch, artfully dodge them while bouncing off the ropes and letting them expend their energy to the point where they'd slow down enough for Ali to move in with a devastating flurry of punches to end the fight. Not a bad strategy. Could it be that Sen. Obama is waiting for mcbarf to blather away until he runs out of lies and starts repeating himself before unloading a powerful counter-attack, either on the road or in debates? His eloquence and ability to think on his feet and ad lib is well known, as is mcbush's lack of these qualities. If Obama decides to attack mcloser with the battering ram of the TRUTH, the aged neothug will wither away like an oak leaf in November. It's time for Obama to bounce off the ropes and show the American people that he's the shrewd and canny champion we hope he is.

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2004 Campaign Redux.....
Posted by: picket on Aug 13, 2008 11:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is like living the Kerry campaign all over again. Senators like to COMPROMISE and not make BOLD decisions.


Dems need to make some bold moves now. The "wait till he is elected" just doesn't encourage the Progressive voters anymore.

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And the 7th way Democrats can lose...
Posted by: Old Skeptic on Aug 13, 2008 11:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is to insist that Obama has to be letter-perfect and in lockstep with their every position in order to "earn" their votes. No one, no human being is perfect, or ever can be. Obama will make mistakes, let misstatements slip past his lips, take some positions that they may not agree with, but let's consider the alternative! Four more years of Bushonomics! Four more years of Rovian BS! McBush with the opportunity to pack the Supreme Court with more clones of Scalia and Alito!

We should also consider the point that the proposals that Obama puts forth now will of necessity be greatly changed by the time they are put forth as serious legislation. Our elected representatives will have great influence over what comes forth from Congress. The president proposes, but Congress disposes! It's too early to be attacking every proposal that we may not agree with, because these are essentially straws in the wind for now.

Even if Obama is not a perfect candidate (and who is, pray tell?) he has to be better than McBush! If Democrats and independents choose to stay at home or throw their vote away on a protest, then Bush gets his third term! It really is pretty much that simple.

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Edwards & Kucinich Were Both More Progressive
Posted by: Spyder on Aug 13, 2008 1:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You are right on the money with this one. Kucinich and Edwards were both better candidates. It's just too bad that Edwards flunked out of The Bill Clinton School of Political Debauchery. Dennis isn't attractive enough to pass the entrance exam, but Edwards got a full scholarship. We are all the losers in this circus of celebrity worship.

John Edwards Was Right for America

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Kucinich does have charisma
Posted by: feduphoosier on Aug 13, 2008 2:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But he was so terrifying to the corporate power-brokers that they crucified him in the media... which always works in this country. You can tell who they fear the most by the way they slander, ridicule and if all else fails... completely marginalize (media blackout.)

Kucinich was virtually 'disappeared' by the media during the debates, and yet he consistently had the best arguments -- and a platform that anyone with any sense would embrace. Except, of course, for the corporate greed machine. And so they squashed him.

To his credit, he just keeps coming back. His insistence on impeachment hearings... he simply refuses to back down. He will fight to the end; for the Constitution, for democracy and for us.

Wouldn't you give anything for a president like that?

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Dennis was small in stature, with HUGE stones. I liked his mind.
Posted by: HughScott on Aug 13, 2008 4:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ditto.

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Failure is Close for the Obama Campaign
Posted by: dudelette on Aug 13, 2008 12:56 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They're already doing all the things they shouldn't be doing.

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Hope so...
Posted by: RobNLA on Aug 13, 2008 12:58 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm hope you're right in this. So far Obama's promise to fight tougher in the general election than he has in the primaries hasn't been fulfilled.

Maybe Obama thinks hitting McCain hard closer to November will have a bigger impact.

Frankly I think it's already time now for the Obama campaign to start attacking harder. He just has to frame his attacks properly, that he is fighter harder for the American people, so that they are not deceived by McCain lies.

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Universal health care is in sync with the Democratic Party?
Posted by: Sil on Aug 13, 2008 1:00 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For years now, nearly every poll has shown that the American people are right in sync with the platform of the Democratic Party. They are pro-environment, pro-women's rights and pro-choice. They don't like war. They want the minimum wage raised, and they want a single-payer universal health-care system.

----

The Democrats want a universal health-care system? That's news to me. The only Democrat running for President that was fighting for one was Dennis Kucinich, and we saw how quickly he was marginalized by the Democratic Party. Hillary's pathetic "universal healthcare" plan is beneath contempt to any thinking person and other countries must have had a roaring good laugh hearing her wax on about the importance of "universal healthcare" while accepting record contributions from the health insurance industry and having a plan that consisted in part of garnishing peoples' wages to make them pay for health insurance. Hey, come to think of it, I seem to recall that you made a movie about this sort of thing.

Shoot, the Democrats got kicked out of power in 2000, which should have been a clue to them, and what did they do? They went and voted for Afghanistan, Iraq, the Patriot Act, FISA, Gonzalez and Mukasey, Condoleeza Rice as Secretary of State, horrible trade agreements that end up offshoring American jobs, didn't investigate election day vote tampering, put impeachment "off the table" upon regaining Congress in 2006, confirmed Bush's Supreme Court judges who will be there for their lives (exzept for Harriet Miers, because the Republicans were balking), and have basically complained ever since about Bush while giving Bush whatever he wanted (see: Iraq war funding.) The Democrats "don't like war" so much that their 2004 nominee was someone who voted for the Iraq war, and who said he would cast the same vote again. That only changed in 2008, when suddenly the Iraq war that was just as terrible as in 2004 was polling worse - although their nominee has continued to vote for its funding.

What I've watched the Democrats do for the past 30 years or so is make pledges on health care to make it accessible to everyone that never amount to anything. I'm sick of the Democrats and not giving them anything. If people want to chalk up the failure to play along with the Democrats as a "wasted vote" or "wasted effort", they can do so; it wouldn't be wasted if more people had the courage to stand by their convictions instead of kidding themselves that the Democrats stand for them. An honestly cast vote is never wasted; the rest of the sheep need to look themselves in the mirror at what they are supporting with their votes.

The Democrats are playing their supporters for fools; they calculate how little they can give people while still being able to claim represnting "change" from the Republicans. If people demanded more of them, they would have no choice but to give them more. As long as people keep saying "Ho hum, what can I do" and voting for the blue guy, you'll get exactly what the Democrats have delivered so far.

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Stronger Analysis of Habitual Losses by Democrats
Posted by: bartxx2 on Aug 13, 2008 1:50 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For a strong, solid analysis of the Democratic losses, see "The Political Brain" (2007) by psychologist Drew Westen, a Democrat who wants Democrats to win.

Westen’s book combines neurological, psychological, sociological, and linguistic research with a study of political history to show definitively how and why Gore and Kerry other Democrats lost and how they could have won.

Big point A. Westen explains why defensive speeches fail and then presents rewrites to show that direct, strong speech which makes emotional connection with voters can make focused points persuasive.

Big point B. Democrats have no cohesive message.
Westen could easily write a long list of core Republican positions.
He couldn’t do it for Democrats.

Big point C. Democrats have let Republicans frame the issues.
Westen builds on linguist George Lakoff’s 2004 book "don’t look at the elephant."
Not enough Democrats paid heed.
They lost in 2004 and should have won more races in 2006 than they did.

Example from Westen:

After 9/11, Bush & Co. declared war on the terrorist Bin Laden. A PERSON
Then it became the war on terrorism. AN ACTION
After that, it became the war on terror. AN EMOTION

It’s slippery enough to get to incoherent point of war on an emotional state.
It’s worse that Democrats did not challenge that.
It’s even worse that Democrats accepted and began using the invalid term “war on terror,” endorsing the Bush-Cheney frame and making it THE national frame.

Democrats have repeatedly shown ability to lose elections they should have won.
Generic preferences don’t indicate actual wins if candidates do not frame the issues
and connect at gut level with voters.

Westen’s book is long but easily skimmable. Methodology in early chapters could be skipped—except that they fascinate and establish Westen as authority.
Last chapter captures essence if not enriching examples.
Westen wrote the book to show Democrats how to win.

Democratic candidates and managers should contact him now.

Otherwise they will be like Gore’s and Kerry’s managers:
“long on experience; short on success.”

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The Media and a New Debte Forum
Posted by: rozcats on Aug 13, 2008 1:53 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As an Obama supporter, I want to say I am VERY scared about this election. Instead of educating the public about each candidate, the media express their own agendas and skew the facts. The average American does not have the time to learn and digest the true and historical facts about a candidate. All they hear are sound bites and they need to hear the TRUTH, plain and simple.

I do not understood why current debate formats are perpetuated. The tidbits gleaned from moderator's questions do not properly demonstrate a candidate's position. I have a suggestion for a more exacting format.

Remember TV game shows where a contestant was situated in their own sound proof booth? I’d prefer not a debate, but an "informational interview" where each candidate is asked specific and INDIVIDUALLY ORIENTED questions, each sitting in a soundproof (perhaps with elevator music) booth with a microphone. Of course we’d have to trust the sound technician for doing the job correctly, but give each five minutes (or whatever) and then switch positions. Neither would know what the other said until they see a transcript, they would just speak their views. Questions should include items such as McCains infidelity, why and how was Obama made out to be a Muslim, why does McCain thinks his Vietnam War and prisoner experience gives him the credentials to be a Commander in Chief, etc.?

When deciding to make a geographical move from one part of the U.S. to another I listed in columns the pros and cons, etc. If Americans had columns with succinct and encyclopedic facts comparing a candidate’s position on various categories, viewing their differences in black and white might clear up the picture.

I, personally, do not have the ability to orchestrate this but one would think that the Obama campaign would welcome this format. I would like him to share WHY he is now going along with even limited off-shore drilling, etc. Maybe he already has and I missed it. Anyway, the bottom line should be the TRUTH and most Americans, especially regarding McCain’s character, are in the dark.

Let us see the light. Obama needs to rethink strategy, ask common people how they would like to receive his views, speak STRAIGHT to Americans WITHOUT an audience, EYES RIGHT INTO THE CAMERA. Maybe THEN people will really listen and see his honesty and strength. OK, he’s not perfect, no one is, but he is the BEST antidote for what this country has lived through for the last eight years.

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the devil is goin' down to Georgia.
Posted by: lexicon on Aug 13, 2008 2:25 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IT'S ALL OVER for Putin....Bush is sending Condi to Georgia....












...and she's bringing her fiddle.




Now...I KNOW Marshall Tucker...and Putin is NO Marshall Tucker.

:-)

lexicon

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DNC too Academic
Posted by: jimmshorts on Aug 13, 2008 2:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...definitions 3 and 4 from www.dictionary.com of academic apply to the Dem's:
3. theoretical or hypothetical; not practical, realistic, or directly useful: an academic question; an academic discussion of a matter already decided.
4. learned or scholarly but lacking in worldliness, common sense, or practicality.

Too ideological, too reactionary, too reasonable, too logical - in other words too academic - are the points I take from Micheal Moore's advice. How does a young whipper-snapper beat the old man in the boxing ring? He shoots 'bytes' from the hip and thinks progressive on his feet. Base the bytes in languaging authentic and brief. Position the progressive prose in a future distinctively determined for change. Embrace change as our friend and more G.W. as our enemy.

Haven't we so called liberals amassed adequate wisdom in hindsight from Reagan, G.W. and Bill Clinton to know the power of the punch in public debate. Choose your words wisely, and what informs that wisdom are the points made my Micheal Moore. Otherwise, good intentions and academic fervor will fuel a best seller book, but loose in the boxing right. The white-haired man making those little quips like "Obama voted for petroleum industry incentives" knocked the O man down to the count of 2 or 3. He'll be up again now, but what about in October?

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Have Michael Moore Answer Your Questions on Meet The Bloggers
Posted by: MeetTheBloggers on Aug 13, 2008 3:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tune in as Micheal Moore answers your questions on Meet The Bloggers on Aug. 22nd.

Go ahead and submit a video question here and possibly get your question answered by Michael Moore himself.

And don't forget to check out Brave New Films for more innovative and hard-hitting political content!

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Clinton and the Etablishment Want him to Lose
Posted by: dayahka on Aug 13, 2008 3:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even though she has absolutely no presidential capabilities, Hillary Clinton is doing her level best to make sure Obama loses. You forgot to tell Obama not only to strike back at McCain, but to strike back at the sore losers. It's also obvious that the establishment would just as soon not have a non-WASP in the WH. Then there's Obama himself: McCain has morphed into Bush Heavy and Obama has morphed into Kerry Lite--and said some pretty dumb things in the process. He needs to ditch that Brezinski fellow from his foreign policy team.

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» Zbig Problem Posted by: edgar1
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
Draft Attack Ad that Dems SHOULD run and run and run
Posted by: adamskiinasia on Aug 13, 2008 6:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Republicans win because Dems never scare their base. Period. The simple folk who vote Republicans aren't scared of tax breaks to the rich but about the only thing that would put a chink in their base is for GOP Moms to hear that under McCain , if you have a son age 14- 18 there is a chance he will be forced to serve in the middle East. Maybe I dont know just how stupid these Moms can be. Wouldn't this kind of direct attack at the ONLY thing that matters to GOP Moms work ? Or is it more important to send your son off on a patriotic mission and show off to visitors the picture of him in his dress blues and last Christmas together?

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» NObody Posted by: edgar1
Tell Me That You Will Open Your Eyes - Snowpatrol. No Message
Posted by: opmoc on Aug 13, 2008 7:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sorry

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Thank you for calling PolitiChoice®
Posted by: chlamor on Aug 13, 2008 7:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whonnnnnngk.
Click.
Beep.

(crackle) Thank you for calling PolitiChoice®. Your call is important to us, so please stay on the line.
...
If you would like to pursue reform from within the Democratic Party, press 1.
If you would like to effectively counter the DLC within an existing mainstream political party, press 2.
If you would like to help with DFA, press 3.
If you miss the seventies and want to join the DSOC/DSA discussion group, press 4.
If you would like to feel "underground" from the comfort of rightward-drifting centrism that calls itself "left," press 5.
If you don't know which button to press, press 6 and you'll be directed to the appropriate caucus.
...
Thank you for calling PolitiChoice®. Please bear in mind that internal reform is the only permissible focus
only permissible focus
only permissible

-Thank you
... (crackle, click)

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.
Posted by: opmoc on Aug 13, 2008 7:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.

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» RE: . . Posted by: Beck
CommonDreamer
Posted by: CommonDreamer on Aug 13, 2008 8:06 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A low blow from Michael Moore, who is supposed to be on our side. I'm sick of the Dems being put down - this is the fault of the idiotic American voters, and nothing else. Sure, the Dems have made mistakes but nothing nearing the travesty what we have now. If voters can't see the light and can't come into the light from their trogloditic, prejudicial and small minded existences, they get the government they deserve - again - and they subject the rest of us to ....the inane and failed policies of the last terrorizing years...without end.

They still buy into the right wing garbage....the best example I can give is the two shootings of liberals (now the AR Dem Chairman)...blaming them for the loss of their jobs. Well, we've come full circle...if the Repubs can convince these people that Dems are responsible for the loss of their jobs (when Dems have not been in power until very recently), then it's game over, I'm sorry to say. These voters truly are clueless as to who will hold their best interests at heart in an economy...job well done, Brownie and all that. A couple of stupid lying Swiftboat ads like last time and these nonthinkers sway to the right evermore without questioning, without analyzing, without consideration of the ruin these policies bring.

I give up. Intelligence in America is truly dead now (and ain't the right wing glad!? - they can keep getting over!)...because of the stupid, uninformed, prejudicial and unsophisticated voters - but NOT because of the Dems.

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Oh i Didn't Realise Michael Moore Wrote This Article That I Haven't Read
Posted by: opmoc on Aug 13, 2008 8:32 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I seem to remember seeing a band right next to a South London Train Station near Crystal Palace Football Ground

It was a punk band doing all the South London punk classics

And there was this Chinese Girl selling cheap DVD's about 9/11 or something and I may have bought the fat bastards one by mistake

I forget its name something about McDonalds and being supesize me or was it that he really didn't have the balls to tell the truth and just went along with his fat bastards who were feeding him

wake up you tosser

who the fuck do you think did wtc7

some fucking flying carpet flown straight from afghanistan?

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Missing the Obvious
Posted by: shelleybear on Aug 13, 2008 9:51 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Michael, why are you ignoring the elephant in the living room?
The voters Obama has to deal with are the racist S.O.B.s who will sit there and say.
"Of course I'm voting for McCain! He's not a negro!"
You want to come up with a strategy, THAT is the problem you have to beat.
Get Americans past their own racist leanings.
Expect the worst from the people who believe this and plan accordingly.
But for pity's sake, don't rose-tint the truth.

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What...There is a difference?
Posted by: hilly7 on Aug 13, 2008 9:53 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is a dufference between Obanation and McInsane? Only the idiots that believed that Nancy Peloski would straignten things out, or having a Democratic Congress would think there was a difference... or spin doctors. Actually, spin doctors know the truth, they get paid to keep people from knowing it.

We have managed to allow the most corrupt people to trash our foundation of our country. At some point you would think that people would wake up and see what is happening! Then again, being stupid is easier, nobody expects much so it is easier. We want freedom, as long as we actually don't have to do anything for it. Speaking of that, why does a free country vote for leaders? Shouldn't we be electing representives. JFK tried to warn us, check out his last speech, notice the word last.

No, I will not vote if all I have to pick from is trash! I love the write in a name thing...How the hell do you do that?

Then again, the election may be postponed and we will have to keep Adolf Bush.

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From someone who can't vote...
Posted by: writerGrrl on Aug 13, 2008 9:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One of the biggest problems with Americans and our culture in general is our desire for everything to be EXACTLY how we want it. This also seems to include wanting everyone to be who we want them to be, instead of how they actually are. This is present in how we view celebrities, our friends, our coworkers...and apparently Obama.

Obama may not be the liberal many of us want him to be but he has a good head on his shoulders, which is more than I can say for our current President and how many of you want someone in office who thinks Iraq and Pakistan border each other? So far he has accomplished the impossible, he has beaten the Clinton machine. However he's going to need our help to overcome the next hurdle, the Republican swiftboating, the racists, and the possibility that the election will be steal able if it's close.

I understand that many of you don't want to vote for Obama on principle but I beg you to consider him. I'm too young to vote and therefore don't have the luxury.

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Here comes the "okey-doke!"
Posted by: Beepath on Aug 13, 2008 11:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Forget the speeches, follow the money."

To be a fly on the wall at the Bohemian Grove right now...sigh...

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The Fix Is In
Posted by: mikeg51 on Aug 14, 2008 8:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/35506

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Michael Moore - Obviously Not This Century's Most Critical Thinker
Posted by: mattfuniciello on Aug 14, 2008 1:54 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Moore says that Dems should not demean McCain if they wish Obama to win? Moore calls Republican tactics (like "swiftboating") a "cesspool" that "they swim in". At the end of this diatribe, he casually refers to we Nader-supporters as "crazy".

How does Moore expect anyone to take him seriously? The attacks on Obama have been no better and no worse than what has been done to Nader by Moore's precious party, the Demoncrats. Scurrilous attacks are scurrilous attacks regardless of where they come from.

Calling people who HAVE spines and who work for democracy, peace, single-payer health care and sustainable energy "crazy" people is not a particularly effective way to win them over.

Every time this porcine progressive pundit speaks of his ex-patron in such disrespectful terms, I am saddened to see so many absorb his bilious effluent.

Moore's worst crime against the truth is his own "swift-boating" of Nader insofar as the 2000 election is concerned. He does it subtly at the end of this piece. This propaganda is every bit as bad as anything the right has thrown at Obama. In a way, its worse because Obama has access to corporate media to respond whereas Nader has no reasonable access.

Here are some facts about 2000 that people may use to better judge Moore's own "cesspool tactics":

1) There were TEN candidates on the ballot in Florida in 2000 (six other candidates beside Bush, Gore, Nader and Buchanan). They ALL exceeded the magic vote total of 537. Using Demologic, this makes them ALL "spoilers"! Can you name even one of these "bastards who gave us Bush"? Do you know one of these "egomaniacs who handed it to the neo-cons"? Have you thanked any of these candidates (besides Ralph) for "destroying our country"? Why was Ralph the ONLY one singled out by the corporate media and unprincipled Demoncrat operatives like Moore? Anyone who frightens the little sissies in the corporate media that much must be having quite an impact.

2) Gore refused to fight for 57,000 black voters who were illegally disenfranchised by the Bush machine in Florida. Thats roughly 106 times more votes than he would have needed to reverse the results of the election! In "Fahrenheit 9/11" we actually see Al Gore banging his little gavel, refusing to hear the pleas of black congressional reps fighting for their constituents. Is Al Gore a) a racist; b) a scumbag: or c) just a dumb f*ck?

3) Nationally, in 2000, EIGHT MILLION Democrats voted for GEORGE W BUSH! Only about 700,000 Dems pulled the lever for Ralph. Why don't these idiots clean up their own pro-war yard before yelling at us about ours?

4) I have a spine so I vote on principle. I understand those who SAY they vote for Democrats "strategically" (thats French for "without spine"). But, those who say this seem painfully unaware that there are 39 safe states, places where even sheep farmers from "Shane" would be voting independent or third party. A vote for either corporate puppet in these states is the poster child for "throwing your vote away".

Moore backed Nader without reservation in 2000, He has NEVER explained why he betrayed us and joined the fake left. He continues to suggest that Bush is Nader's fault. Bush is AMERICA'S fault. Michael, and it is high time you stop trying to pin it on a guy who has spent his entire life fighting battles on our behalf.

The 2006 "transition" shows us exactly what to expect when voters are dumb enough to trust the Democrats! Nothing. Nader supporters are not the crazy ones. We want democracy and we are willing to work at it for as long as it takes. We don't support candidates who accept corporate money. It may take several decades for the mainstream to grok this, but as long as we're out here fighting a TRULY principled battle, we will eventually win. Democrats lose ... even when their candidates win.

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Nader it is!!!
Posted by: Doubting Thomas on Aug 14, 2008 4:02 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After sifting through many of these responses, I have to agree with the Nader supporters. And to
those democrats accusing us of inadvertently helping McCain possibly take the WH, I don't see it that way at all. To me, a vote for Nader is a vote for the person that I think will best represent my interests as leader of this country. The whole "a vote for Nader is actually a vote for McCain" myth is just that, and here's why. The dems have easily shown that they are not representing my best interests so it's not really a contest. They had their chance back in January when they took control over congress, and they did absolutely nothing with it. You know if you Dem supporters would grow a pair and vote for who you actually thought would represent you best instead of the "voting for the lesser of two evils" strategy, then we could get away from the two party (that is, two sides of the same coin) system.
So Nader/Gonzalez it is come November!!!
Who's with me? (crickets chirping)

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» RE: Nader it is!!! Posted by: grkjr
McCain unfit to be president
Posted by: Garvagh on Aug 14, 2008 6:58 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Michael, you make some excellent points.

John McCain in my view is unfit to be president because he altogether lacks an understanding of the nuances of power, and the inutility of the application of US military forces to every situation he objects to.

McCain still labors under the delusion the US could have "won" the Vietnam War! If only we had killed a few more millions of people, we could have propped up the artificially created government of "South" Vietnam for many more years. So what if it was tearing the country to pieces! And for less than nothing.

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Senator Songbird
Posted by: BlackbirdHighway on Aug 14, 2008 10:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The idea that Senator Songbird might actually win makes me feel very sad for America. If the Dems lose this one, it may mean the end of the party. People will probably just give up and move over to the Green Party, which might be good in the long run. Folks don't like backing losers.

I'm afraid Obama is not willing to fight nasty, just like Gore and Kerry. The Repubs have changed the game, it's almost impossible to win without fighting nasty. That's what I liked about Clinton, she would fight as nasty as needed to win.

My one biggest wish is for someone to get McCain to completely lose control and have a major temper tantrum, hopefully on camera, by calling him Senator Songbird.

Just google "McCain songbird". It's good stuff. I don't see why the Dems aren't using it. After what happened to Kerry in 2004, they should. Maybe they just don't really care about winning. They would rather be polite losers.

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Be gentle, Michael
Posted by: JLusk on Aug 17, 2008 8:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please remember that the past two elections were stolen; one can argue that the Dems. should have been more vigilant in protecting the Democratic process, but protecting against a well-financed, well-thought out heist challenges even the most vigilant. That said, Michael's spot on with his concerns. The Dems. need to get to the people first with the most - don't hold back.

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IT IS VERY LIKELY LOST. THE REPUBLICAN NOISE MACHINE CREATES
Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Aug 17, 2008 11:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
more new lies each day than can be answered. Then you have all of those of us that must work 3 jobs to survive. They don't even have the time to try to listen for the truth. My step daughter just learned that John McCain is not a democrat. I don't know of her ever going to the polls. My wife says that voting won't change a thing. It would be nice if I could really give a convincing argument that it would. I bumble along with "It sure won't change if you don't vote."

Harry Truman won because he was able to appeal to the survivors of the great depression. It may yet have to get worse before the poor and the middle class will listen. Perhaps, only an emergency creates changes.

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McCain will win, a precursor to a 'New White Nationalism' in America
Posted by: Democratic Socialist on Aug 18, 2008 3:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As America continues to spiral ever downward, its citizens will begin to inevitably spliter by racial/ethnic groups and the White majority will begin to publicly blame the 'multiculturalists,' 'one-worlders,' and eventually 'minorities' for their increasing economic, political, and social woes. As history has shown, all disintegrating empires balkanize via racial/ethnic lines as they decline, and America will be no different.

All empires and nations begin to fall apart after a certain amount of time at the top, and America is no different. As empires decay and decline, it is only natural that people start to separate by ethnic/racial affiliation because it is so fundamental and basic to human societies and cultures. Contrary to what many of you race-denying liberals may believe, race/ethnicity transcends class/economics, religion, politics, language, and basically everything else -- when people begin to instinctually feel threatened as many of America's White majority now does, they will begin to form 'interest groups' that oppose the people (i.e., racial/ethnic minorities, especially Hispanics, Asians, and Jews) who do not agree with the majority and who they feel threaten their interests in America. The modern Republican Party, dominated as it is by White Americans, is but a precursor to the coming White racial movement in America.

Hence the probable victory of McCain this November as the White consciousness movement picks up steam in America...if the relection of Bush in 2004 didn't open your eyes to a rising White nationalism in America, you are either blind or a starry-eyed lib'rul dumb-dumb who thinks Barack "I make pretty speeches" Obama is going to inspire all of us Americans regardless of race-color-creed to dance happily under beautiful rainbows while holding hands, eating ice-cream, and singing along to The Beatles.

Wake up. Rough times are ahead in America, and no amount of hippyesque idealism is going to make it better.

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Democrats seem to be Professional Losers: No, they are
Posted by: zyclop on Aug 20, 2008 11:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Professional Losers. And they are a bunch of underdogs, tails tucked in; eager to please.
This election-time the people [including those caught between without their consent] will for the third time around get what they deserve. But, this time the RW machine will break the system for good and everyone will have to pay the price, excluded of course the fat cats !!!

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