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Election 2008

Obama Retreats from Key Progressive Issues

By John Nichols and Roberto Lovato, TheNation.com and Of America. Posted July 10, 2008.


Obama votes like a Republican on FISA and backs off from Iraq, keeping corporate America happy.
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Obama Votes to Silence Debate and Pass FISA
By John Nichols, TheNation.com

Arizona Sen. John McCain did not bother to show up for Wednesday's Senate votes on whether to amend the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act to absolve George Bush of responsibility for initiating an illegal warrantless wiretapping program and to provide retroactive immunity to the telecommunications corporations that violated the privacy of their customers in order to collaborate with a lawless president.

But that's OK, because Illinois Sen. Barack Obama cast the votes that McCain would have.

In addition to joining the majority in a 69-28 Senate vote to pass legislation that the American Civil Liberties Union describes as "a Constitutional nightmare," Obama voted to silence debate on the FISA bill.

While most Senate Democrats -- including New York Sen. Hillary Clinton -- opposed the FISA rewrite and voted to keep the debate open, the presumptive Democratic nominee for president sided with the Republicans in saying that the essential Constitutional questions raised by this legislation did not merit extended or thoughtful debate.

The cloture vote split 72 in favor of shutting down debate to 26 for keeping it open. Two senators -- McCain and ailing Massachusetts Democrat Edward Kennedy -- missed Wednesday's session.

The "no" votes on cloture were cast by Vermont Independent Bernie Sanders and 25 Democrats, including Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., Assistant Majority Leader Dick Durbin, Obama's Democratic colleague from Illinois, and Clinton, Obama's primary competitor for the Democratic presidential nomination.

Leading the fight to keep the debate about the FISA rewrite open were Connecticut Democrat Chris Dodd and Wisconsin Democrat Russ Feingold, the two senators whom Obama promised earlier this year to work with in an effort to block this assault on the Constitution and corporate responsibility.

Said Feingold, "I sit on the Intelligence and Judiciary Committees, and I am one of the few members of this body who has been fully briefed on the warrantless wiretapping program. And, based on what I know, I can promise that if more information is declassified about the program in the future, as is likely to happen either due to the inspector general report, the election of a new president or simply the passage of time, members of this body will regret that we passed this legislation. I am also familiar with the collection activities that have been conducted under the Protect America Act and will continue under this bill. I invite any of my colleagues who wish to know more about those activities to come speak to me in a classified setting. Publicly, all I can say is that I have serious concerns about how those activities may have impacted the civil liberties of Americans. If we grant these new powers to the government and the effects become known to the American people, we will realize what a mistake it was, of that I am sure."

Unfortunately, while Obama once promised to work with Feingold, he wasn't listening on Wednesday when the Wisconsin senator explained to his colleagues that granting retroactive immunity to the telecommunications corporations would effectively block the ability of Congress and the courts to address not just massive corporate wrongdoing but attacks on the privacy rights of Americans.

"If Congress short-circuits these lawsuits, we will have lost a prime opportunity to finally achieve accountability for these years of law-breaking," said Feingold. "That's why the administration has been fighting so hard for this immunity. It knows that the cases that have been brought directly against the government face much more difficult procedural barriers and are unlikely to result in rulings on the merits."

Feingold was speaking the truth about a moment in which the ACLU said the Senate was on the verge of passing "an unconstitutional domestic spying bill that violates the Fourth Amendment and eliminates any meaningful role for judicial oversight of government surveillance."

But Obama did not want to hear it.

*****


In Centrist Speech Aimed at Latinos, Obama Neglects War -- Latinos’ Most Important Issue
By Roberto Lovato, Of America

Candidates Obama and McCain are gearing up to do what the mainstream media is touting as a "mini-Latino voter tour" that includes speeches at the LULAC Convention today and speeches at the National Council of La Raza's (NCLR) convention in San Diego next week.

For discussion's sake, let's do as the mainstream media does and forget that the voice of LULAC, the League of United Latin American Citizens, is but one very well-funded voice in a cacophony of more than 40 million Latino voices and thousands of Latino organizations in the United States. And, in the name of being part of this often inane (as in, anybody seen that political Chupacabra -- the widely-reported Latino unwillingness to vote for a black candidate -- lately?) conversation labeled "Latino politics," let's also ignore that lurking beneath that brown blob of a media construct called "Hispanics" in headlines and sound bites are inconvenient truths, like the fact that organizations like LULAC do not always speak for many, if not most, of us.

OK. So, the "tour" of all two organizations began with a "festive" gathering at the LULAC convention in the Latino heartland of Washington, D.C., where LULAC President Oscar Moran designated McCain "nuestro amigo." Joining Moran, Wal-Mart, Shell Oil, Miller Beer and the usual host of corporations sponsoring these kinds of festivities were other, richer organizations whose very life depends increasingly on their ability to bring in Latino bodies: the U.S. Army, the U.S. Navy and the Department of Defense (see the full list of LULAC Convention sponsors below). And, for the record, while some individual staff and board members and some local chapters of LULAC strongly oppose the war, the leadership of neither LULAC nor that of most other major Latino organizations has taken a position on the war.

As if not wanting to offend some of the sponsors in the audience, Obama made no mention in his LULAC speech of what numerous polls tell us is the numero uno issue for Latinos by large margins: the Iraq War. Again, war, not immigration, is the No. 1 issue for the fastest-growing group in the U.S. military.

For his part, McCain made mention not of the war, but of the Latino troops, and he did so in a manner that sounded like another in the tsunami of multimillion-dollar media ads brought to you by the Pentagon sponsors in the audience:

"When you visit Iraq and Afghanistan, you will meet some of the thousands of Hispanic Americans who serve there, and many of those who risk their lives to protect the rest of us do not yet possess the rights and privileges of full citizenship in the country they love so well. To love your country, as I discovered in Vietnam, is to love your countrymen. Those men and women are my brothers and sisters ..."

Yeah. OK, hermano. Moving on, in his LULAC speech McCain fumbled around the ticklish issue of immigration, according to this piece in the Dallas morning news.

Missing in the brown sea of "si se puede"s and "amigo"s at the "spirited" event was nary a word describing other, more "no se puede" concerns of Spanish (and English) speakers -- issues like:

"prision" -- the exponential growth of the Latino prison population.

"Pentagono" -- the multibillion-dollar effort to trick Latino youth into joining the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines and other armed forces.

"Muerte, detencion y migrantes" -- immigration issues such as the thousands of dead in the desert; death and sexual and physical abuse in ICE detention centers; and thousands of raids and other terror inflicted on immigrant children and adults.

"pobreza" -- the unprecedented challenge of a country in which the wealthiest 1 percent has over $2 trillion more than the bottom 90 percent, according to the Nation magazine. In other words, the candidates won't be asked in Español or en Ingles, "How come the wealthiest 1 percent have $19 trillion while the rest of us 300,000,000 only have a combined wealth totaling less than $17 trillion?"

So, let's "hope" that the larger, better-funded NCLR event brings us fewer "si se puede"s and more of things like "substancia," "realidad" and "transparencia."

    List of Sponsors of LULAC's 2008 Convention

  • Diamond Sponsors

  • Comcast Corporation

  • General Motors Corporation

  • Wal-Mart Stores Inc.


  • Presidential Sponsors

  • American Airlines

  • Bridgestone/Firestone

  • Ford Motor Company

  • LULAC Council #1

  • Miller Brewing Company

  • Shell Oil Company

  • Sprint Nextel Corporation

  • U.S. Department of Health & Human Services

  • Judicial Sponsors

  • AARP

  • AT&T

  • Dell

  • El Zol

  • U.S. Army


  • Senatorial Sponsors

  • The Coca-Cola Company

  • ExxonMobil Corporation

  • Google Inc.

  • Harrah's Entertainment

  • McDonald's Corporation

  • Nissan North America Inc.

  • PepsiCo, Inc.

  • Procter & Gamble Company

  • Southwest Airlines

  • Tyson Foods Inc.

  • U.S. Department of Defense


  • Congressional Sponsors

  • Countrywide Financial Corp.

  • U.S. Department of Education

  • U.S. Navy

  • Univision Communications

  • Western Union


  • Patriot Sponsors

  • Bank of America

  • Freddie Mac

  • Geico

  • NBC/Telemundo

  • The Nielsen Company

  • U.S. Department of Agriculture


  • Patron Sponsors

  • 7-Eleven Inc.

  • Americans for Secure Retirement

  • ARAMARK

  • Billetel

  • Burger King Brands Inc.

  • Continental Airlines Inc.

  • Denny's Restaurants

  • DISH Latino

  • Enterprise Rent-A-Car Company

  • Hyatt Hotels Corporation

  • International Union of Bricklayers and Allied Craftworkers

  • Merisant Worldwide Inc.

  • PhRMA

  • Sed de Saber

  • TracFone Wireless Inc.

  • U.S. Agency for International Development

  • U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

  • Walt Disney Company

  • Wyndham International


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See more stories tagged with: right, war, iraq, obama, centrism, latinos, mccain, fisa, latino vote, centrist, center

John Nichols is The Nation's Washington correspondent.

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Too bad...
Posted by: kwalla on Jul 10, 2008 12:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
there's no one running for President who truly supports progressive causes.

Oh wait: who's this guy?




https://www.votenader.org/forms/contribute/

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Too bad... Posted by: nochicagoboys
» Screw Obama Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» That guy is an egomaniac! Posted by: antiapathy
» Could you please elaborate Posted by: WhuThe?!?
Don't Panic
Posted by: Tom Degan on Jul 10, 2008 12:30 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So manyn people on the left are trying to redefine Barack as a closet facist. Don't panic. What the Senator is doing is the oldest trick in the book. It's also smart electoral politics. For more on this subject, read what I wrote the other day on my blog. Here's a link:

Buyer's Remorse?

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» The Real Link Posted by: Tom Degan
» rfrancis: Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: rfrancis: Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: rfrancis: Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: He wouldn't win either Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» rfrancis Posted by: bobtr900
» RE: rfrancis: Posted by: Sissy
» RE: Don't Panic Posted by: StillStanding
» RE: Don't Panic Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: Don't Panic Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: Don't Panic Posted by: StillStanding
» RE: Don't Panic Posted by: yellow
» RE: Don't Panic Posted by: sabrina
» RE: Don't Panic Posted by: StillStanding
» RE: You need to be more skeptical and cynical Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» nochicaboboys, Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: I am denigrating faith Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: I am denigrating faith Posted by: sicntired
» RE: We need to take a breath here Posted by: StillStanding
» RE: We need to take a breath here Posted by: StillStanding
» RE: Don't Panic Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Don't Panic Posted by: pomes
» RE: Don't Panic Posted by: Southern Gal
» Southern Gal Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Southern Gal Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Southern Gal Posted by: StillStanding
» RE: Southern Gal Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Southern Gal Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Southern Gal Posted by: sicntired
Egg Suckin' Dog ...
Posted by: mmckinl on Jul 10, 2008 12:34 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was going to hold my nose and vote for this guy ... No More ...

I'm voting Green cause Nader is a fly by night gone in the morning political carpet bagger himself ...

It's time for a NEW PARTY ... VOTE GREEN !

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: gg Suckin' Dog ... Posted by: edgeofnowhere
» RE: gg Suckin' Dog ... Posted by: StillStanding
» RE: gg Suckin' Dog ... Posted by: Sissy
» RE: gg Suckin' Dog ... Posted by: StillStanding
» RE: gg Suckin' Dog ... Posted by: sicntired
LOL
Posted by: gellero1 on Jul 10, 2008 12:49 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Told Ya So..............!!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: LOL Posted by: sicntired
Any Senator that voted YEA has violated their Oath of Office...Barack the Panderer,too
Posted by: Turiye on Jul 10, 2008 2:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fired my Congressguy last week, Senator 2 days ago, if by not upholding the Constitution they have now become derelict in their Duty, tell me I cannot do this? I tell you removing the Fourth Amendment of THE BILL OF RIGHTS is an egregious, blatant violation of their Oath. I chose Dennis Kucinich to be my Representative, he is the only, one of 10, but the absolute one that is ethical, honest, does not fear the wrath of this criminal Congress and always has replied to any request, including meetings for me.
This is of no consequence any longer, I've been arranging flights and hotels all night to find my new country. The Man called Barack Obama can have my Passport I have no need for it any longer.

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They're baaaaaaack!
Posted by: talkville on Jul 10, 2008 2:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Old ride, new ride; same drivers are back and same road chosen.

Vote carefully, friends, this November; much is at stake. Look things over real carefully, the choice couldn't be more momentous: Tyranny or Despotism.

A bit of botox, cosmetics and all those new techniques of plastic-surgery available these days, and it looks like a 'new' 'more presentable' and 'prettier' Pig will be ready for view. Same one as before.

They'll get to keep the booty, stay foot-loose and fancy free and even famous and admired, and they'll get to set up, plan and manage the Next Big Ride for the coming generations, when a repeat will seem so new and all our current debacles forgotten, revised and adapted to once again obfuscate, lie, cheat and steal. The rotting, decaying core, it seems, has a half-life of more duration than may have been anticipated.

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Here Are Lists Of Our Congressional Traitors
Posted by: TarryFaster on Jul 10, 2008 3:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a five hour fit of anger and frustration, I dug up the names and contact information on the "Democratic" House & Senator traitors who voted to approve the latest version of the "Compromise FISA bill" -- which destroys our Fourth Amendment.  I put the two lists up on the Net as websites and will now go about "promoting" them.  Ideally, with your help, we could bring these sites to the attention of enough people to develop a viral network that could then gain critical mass among voters to remove these traitors.

Here are the sites: 

For House "Representatives": http://www.cloudbyte.com/traitors.html
For "Senators": http://www.cloudbyte.com/senatetraitors.html

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» Check This OUt ! NWO Quotations Posted by: Persephone8
pick a better target than Obama--the power of corporations, not forgetting the corporate media
Posted by: Suzon on Jul 10, 2008 3:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember Stanley Milgram's contribution to the world? He concluded that it's not the individual's values that determine how they will act, but the situation that they find themselves in. Anybody doubt that Obama is being leaned on by powerful advisors?

Who will be president is important this time around for two reasons: first, the usual one, the Supreme Court; second, McCain's mental (and moral) instability. At least Ombama can think.

Forget "betrayal" and concentrate on the corporate powers that have usurped the constitution and dominate public discussion.

Our real problem is not with a liberal guy named Obama but with the kind of situation he's in.

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» agreed Posted by: socialpsych
» RE: agreed Posted by: Lauren
» Zbigniew Brzezinski Posted by: pomes
Don't Panic (I wentoff half-cocked!)
Posted by: celeborn on Jul 10, 2008 3:42 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oops, sorry I acted like an idiot and didn't do my homework! (thanks to you, Tom Degan!). Now I have my faith in Obama restored. Hope everybody who felt betrayed reads this: http://utdocuments.blogspot.com/2008/07/
obamas-new-statement-on-fisa.html (you may have to copy and paste the whole URL). Barack is smart; like you said, he knows how to play the field and make the Cor-pirates think they're winning.

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» did you read that link? Posted by: antiapathy
» He knows how to play you Posted by: form5166
Alternet, correct yourself!
Posted by: celeborn on Jul 10, 2008 3:45 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hey Guys and Gals, please correct the awful disservice you did to all of us by your erroneous headline; Obama knew what he was doing: http://utdocuments.blogspot.com/2008/07/
obamas-new-statement-on-fisa.html
You shot yourselves in the feet this time.

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» RE: Alternet, correct yourself! Posted by: StillStanding
Obama spin patrol is active today
Posted by: StillStanding on Jul 10, 2008 4:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I see the Obama spin patrol is active this morning, as if their obfuscations and apologetics could possibly excuse the Senator's treasonous betrayal of the base.

Well, chatter on Obamatons, but there's no hiding Obama's treachery. The FISA bill was no small thing and Obama's lame excuses for his vote make him all the more repellent.

The one good thing I can say is that I can now completely tune out the election noise. I would never vote for either Obama or McCain, so I can skip the debates, skip all the hoopla, and cast my vote for Nader in November.

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» RE: Obama spin patrol is active today Posted by: StillStanding
» Repug spin patrol is active today Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: Repug spin patrol is active today Posted by: StillStanding
He's Not A Progressive-He's A DLC Sellout
Posted by: NoPCZone on Jul 10, 2008 5:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This election already has one fact-challenged, pandering Republican in the race. We don't need another. Obama isn't running to the middle- he never was on the left. Nader is looking better and better as I cannot vote for a Republican and that is what Obama is.

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Obamarama4
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Jul 10, 2008 5:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There was absolutely no reason to break from Sens. Feingold and Durbin on the FISA vote, except continued fealty to Bush and his co-felons. Even Hillary got it right, but not this clown prince and I iterate my Obamarama criticism now #4. It is time for Dipocrits to boycott the nomination process and in its stead nominate Kucinich by acclamation. He is the only person qualified to be President and the last hope any of us have to restore law, order and dignity to federal governance. I have no interest in penning Obamarama5 and I'll be damned if I will tolerate his extension of Bushshit while he panders to every despicable element in our society. If its all about getting elected and THEN we'll see the REAL OBAMA, I say bullshit...what you see is what you get and he ain't much!

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» RE: Obamarama4 Posted by: edith
» RE: Obamarama4 Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Obamarama4 Posted by: EMB
» It's a big political charade, so Posted by: Last Chance
» Acclamation Posted by: Col. Jackleg
» RE: Obamarama4 Posted by: sicntired
Zimbabwe
Posted by: edith on Jul 10, 2008 5:59 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once Mugabe negated the results of a democratic election that he lost and ordered a phony seocnd round, the opposition simply opted out(beatings by Mugabe's thugs reinforced the decision as well as the obvious fraud that would be applied to the results.)

We are not quite down the road to socialist happiness enjoyed by Zimbabwe's suffering folk. But the trip has begun and the brakes have failed. As our dollar slides, our media mouths one cliche after another, the Change Guy reveals he's the classic do-anything to succeed grade grubber--type. Those of us who know what Harvard Law School usually produces are hardly surprised.

Wall St, a few defense contractors and the political consultants/lobbyists tell the candidates like McCain and Obama what is possible. A little independence is occasionally tolerated, to provide the illusion of a candidate with "new" ideas. Big Business=Big Govt=Big Bucks is how it works. Jefferson was right about big government.

But really, this Obama fellow becoming GOP Lite is so predictable. The Clintons did it years ago. Richard Nixon was Democrat Lite. (Oh yes, he was,knee--jerk Nixon-haters). And Ronald Reagan amiably tolerated significant growth in the overall growth of Big Fat Government,not only in the defense sector either.

Ron Paul was the only candidate who was a truly radical figure. Barr may be a shadow of Paul, but for those of you who believe little or no govt is better than the present mess, he may be an option.

Otherwise, don't vote. Let's get the percentage of registered voters who actually vote to under 50%. That will make a more signigficant splash than the election of the first "African American", who predictably in our Orwellian system, is not an African American but a white American with an African biological father he did not know.

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» RE: Zimbabwe Posted by: StillStanding
» Operation: Smoke and Mirrors has failed. Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» Look.... Posted by: foreverhope
» See.... Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: See.... Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: See.... Posted by: Lauren
» RE: See.... Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: See.... Posted by: Lauren
» RE: See.... Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: See.... Posted by: StillStanding
» RE: Russ Feingold Posted by: Sissy
Middle of WHOSE road?
Posted by: Julian on Jul 10, 2008 6:16 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama is presented as moving to the centre. Centre of what? Middle of whose road? Junking the constitution rapidly is one extreme. McCain's. Junking it slowly is another. Obama's. Where does DEFENDING the constitution fit? Indeed where does IMPROVING it, making it democratic, fit? Nowhere, obviously, on any road which Obama and the rest of the more venal politicians wish to travel. Other "extremes" on the road with which lemmings are comfortable: Continuing the war crime of aggression for 16 months or continuing it for a century? Torturing prisoners or not doing so? (The middle of that road used to be rendering them to debased countries for torture, now it's doing it in-house, with debate confined to what kind of torture is OK). Justice or injustice? (The middle of that road is, by definition, injustice). Conditional support for racist Israel (McCain's brand of injustice) or outright grovelling (Obama's brand of injustice). And so the list of corporate-contrived dichotomies continues.
Well there's another road not on the DLC’s map but which growing numbers out in the real world are finding attractive - anti-Americanism. This used to be a political lead balloon. Now, it sells, and will sell more readily as people see that an Obama presidency would continue all the crimes of the Bush presidency - crimes which were not committed during the Roosevelt or Kennedy presidency and not as blatantly even in the Eisenhower presidency. American power and influence have been squandered and as it fades the international law of the jungle will do America no more favours than are done for any other wounded predator. Ron Paul could see that. Cynthia McKinney could see that. Ralph Nader could see that. Denis Kucinich could see that. The decent, principled journalist Helen Thomas can see it and is saying so, loud and clear and not only at home. When will the parochial navel-gazers twig to it? A good start would be to insist that Obama spell out precisely how what he would do as president would differ from what Bush does now, how he would show himself to be definitely Bush-opposite, not Bush-lite.

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» Nice wall of text Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: Nice wall of text Posted by: Julian
» RE: Nice wall of text Posted by: Lauren
» Nice wall of text Posted by: Prairie Waif
Wake Up, Obama Fans
Posted by: patsy6 on Jul 10, 2008 6:47 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To those of you who thought Barack Obama is a progressive, I say START PAYING ATTENTION! Some of us knew when he took office in January 2005 that he is a centrist. I will grit my teeth and vote for him, because he's certainly better than McCain, but please read David Sirota's 2005 article entitled What's Happened to Barack Obama and learn the truth. You'll have to search for it, as Alternet won't let me publish the URL due to its length.

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» RE: Wake Up, Obama Fans Posted by: Sissy
» RE: Wake Up, Obama Fans Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Wake Up, Obama Fans Posted by: Sissy
» RE: Wake Up, Obama Fans Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Wake Up, Obama Fans Posted by: sicntired
Not progressive or liberal? I disagree and here's why
Posted by: foreverhope on Jul 10, 2008 7:24 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On January 31, the National Journal released its "2007 Vote Ratings," which ranked Sen. Barack Obama "the most liberal senator in 2007."

Among the "liberal" positions Obama took to earn the distinction were his votes to implement the bipartisan 9-11 Commission's homeland security recommendations, provide more children with health insurance, permit federal funding for embryonic stem-cell research, and maintain a federal minimum wage. Obama voted to ban cluster bombs.

Obama supported most measures aimed at withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq. He supported comprehensive immigration legislation including a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants. He has voted to support most Democratic positions on health care, education, energy, and the budget, and he voted against most Republican positions on those topics.

On foreign policy Obama's liberal score of 92 and conservative score of 7 indicate that he was more liberal in that issue area than 92 percent of the senators and more conservative than 7 percent.

In 2007, Obama's composite liberal score of 95.5 was the highest in the Senate.

McCain did not vote frequently enough in 2007 to draw a composite score. He missed more than half of the votes in both the economic and foreign-policy categories. On social issues, which include immigration, McCain received a conservative score of 59.

Overall in NJ's 2007 ratings, Obama voted the liberal position on 65 of the 66 key votes on which he voted. Obama garnered perfect liberal scores in both the economic and social categories.

Republicans know they can make hay by showing how liberal the Democratic nominee is and that is what they are and will do. I wonder? are repug trolls attempting to portray Obama as too conservative to push him even further left and make him an even easier target for these types of attacks?

"Senator Obama's voting record, from what I have seen of it, tends to be very left-leaning," said Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas. "I saw Senator Kennedy's endorsement of him as both an acknowledgement of that similar ideological view, but also -- perhaps just as significant -- that he represents the future."

NO democrat candidate, no matter who they are, is anywhere near as bad as ANY republican candidate. If you say the repugs and dems are the same you are lying or delusional or perhaps trolling for McCain or Nader or the greens. It is too bad you have lost confidence in our democratic process. Although we disagree I can understand why voters are disbelieving. However I would rather deal with the devil I know than the devil I don't know, and in this case the dems and repugs are the devils I know. Not voting at all should NOT be an option! I DO believe Obama will bring our soldiers home, end the war somehow. Until he is sworn in he is at a serious disadvantage as to the best way to extract our troops. I don't need him to be specific, JUST BRING THEM HOME! I DO believe Obama is much much MUCH better than McCain or any other republican to lead this country. I believe Nader is a protester candidate and the presidency offers a bully pulpit and that is OK but distracting as he is significantly ill equipped to lead this nation and we don't have time to screw around, our country is hemorraging, our soldiers in harm's way. Only time will show us what sort of president Barack Obama will be, no one can know. For now and through the election I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt while carefully watching him and hoping for the best.

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» RE: We the people will protect reproductive freedom Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» Does the DLC pay you to troll for Obama? Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» oh for heaven's sake Posted by: foreverhope
» Lauren Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: Who defines the liberal position? Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: You Can LEGALLY Do a Write in Vote ! Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» OHHHHHHHHHH....OK....now I get it! Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: OHHHHHHHHHH....OK....now I get it! Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: No, FISA had nothing to do with it..... Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
Meet the new boss...
Posted by: wildbill on Jul 10, 2008 7:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
..oh, what the hell does it matter?

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To Those of you who haven't noticed...
Posted by: droscify on Jul 10, 2008 8:01 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The discourse concerning elctoral politics in this country is extraordinarily tightly controlled and those who do not support a slight variation of the status quo are not given a widely heard voice.

Therefore, someone like Obama would never ever be a viable candidate were he to take positions of say, a Dennis Kucinich. We can look at this two ways. Obama is as some say, a Republican, or he's a pragmatist. I think he's a pragmatist.

Because if you hadn't noticed, footsoldiers in the ditto-head army hate him with a passion. Give the guy a freaking chance... You know, like the chance we all gave Kerry a few years back even though he was also a compromise candidate.

If you haven't noticed, the right wants us to not like Obama, which is why FOX News is one of the biggest reporters on this "Obama capitulates" story.

If you actually (not just rhetorically,) care about what happens to this country in the next four years, I would strongly recomend a vote for Obama.

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» Obama the "pragmatist" Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Obama the "pragmatist" Posted by: Lauren
Great - now we have two Republican candidates for President
Posted by: Jersey Devil on Jul 10, 2008 8:04 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once again we are blindsided by a candidate's ambition and Uplifting speeches. It is time to reactivate Mrs. Clinton's campaign. Obama will continue to flip-flop all the way to Denver. Too bad the CHANGE he was talking about is his political move on to the Republican's side of issues facing the USA

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» Clinton still sucks Posted by: WhuThe?!?
I Am Angry
Posted by: QQOblivion on Jul 10, 2008 8:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am angry because, not only is Obama now shown himself to be a FASCIST sell-out. But John McCain is even far worse, if that is possible. (And, oh yes, it is!) Watch as McCain picks Mitt "I want to double the size of Guantanamo!" Romney to be his running-mate. Romney could very well be even worse than Cheney!

And, like it or not, voting third-party IS INDEED throwing your vote away. Even the third party votes are split among Nader, McKinney, Barr (who is worse than McCain, in my opinion), and the write-ins for Kucinich and Hillary Clinton. (And others I am forgetting about.)

So what choice do I have but to vote for Obama!? And he knows that we on the left have no choice but to vote for him. So he is taking advantage of the Democratic base, while neglecting us and talking down to us.

America is fucked!

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» We need to unite Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: We need to unite Posted by: Lauren
» Right! You Listening Alternet? Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: ight! You Listening Alternet? Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: I Am Angry Posted by: StillStanding
Cause Clinton is so idealistically liberal?
Posted by: droscify on Jul 10, 2008 8:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Um, no. Sorry if I like hearing the man speak. It's no secret our empire will eventually crumble regaurdless of who we elect this year, and its also no secret things are more than a little fucked up and have been long before Bush and Reagan.

The way things are is pretty deeply entrenched, but as we've seen, socialist revolutions havent worked any better, and even those elected in widely democratic ways often abuse this power. I suppose we could have a national or local referendum on each issue depending on the relevance, but no one seems ready to do that.

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Wake Up
Posted by: Persephone8 on Jul 10, 2008 8:47 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He's a globalist he's a globalist he's a globalist he's a globalist he's a
globalist he's a globalist he's a globaliist he's a globalist he's a
gloablist he's a globalist he's a globalist. he's a globalist

he's CFR he's CFR he's CFR he's CFr he's CFR he's CFR he's CFR
he's CFR he's CFR he's CFR he's CFR he is CFR he is CFR

he has the same agenda as the current admin to destroy the Bill of Rights and Constitution and our Unalienable Rights. They are all THE SAME
Progressives are in the lineage of FDR (Social Security, monetizing
of our birth certfifcates as collateral for international debt = slavery) and Woodrow Wilson the forerunner
of The Partriot Act and spying on political "sunversives" and the
Federal Reserve)

Do a write in vote for Ron Paul if you still want sovereignty, The
Constitution and Bill of RIghts in America.

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» Is that keyboard Tourettes? Posted by: foreverhope
Actions Speak Louder Than Words
Posted by: Southern Gal on Jul 10, 2008 8:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FISA, the Patriot Act and the Constitution are our most important issues. We the People are not supposed to be spied upon without warrants by our own government. How do we protest unjust wars and speak reason to the zealots without our Constitutional rights? Why sell out on this vote? Obama is supposed to be a constitutional lawyer. We the People are no longer safe in our homes and in our lives. Nothing else at issue in this election is as important. Spin away. We have seen the face of betrayal and it is Obama and the other members of both the House and Senate that voted for this FISA legislation. This continues to be government by the corporations, for the corporations and let the People eat dirt.

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Why is everyone so surprised?
Posted by: Bastet62 on Jul 10, 2008 8:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seriously - why is everyone so shocked at Obama doing exactly what Obama's about? Did people really only listen to his speeches and THEN decide he was a great guy? They didn't read his policies? They didn't look at his voting record? They didn't go to his website and see what he says about the issues?

Really?

World Can't Wait has been telling us for MONTHS about Obama. No one listened. Too bad.

Everyone believed in the BS the media fed us all about Kucinich, the one nominee that could have really made a difference. Now we're stuck with a great speaker - which is a "change" that I "hoped" for - but man, a good speaker is just not enough to really change the trajectory of where the Bush agenda is leading us all.

Later today the media and the country will ignore Kucinich as he introduces an article of impeachment against Bush.

RIP America

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Kucinich as independent
Posted by: WhuThe?!? on Jul 10, 2008 9:08 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Perhaps I don't understand some of the presidential campaign politics, but is there any reason Kucinich couldn't throw in his name as an independent presidential candidate?

Perhaps now that obama has proven himself to be nearly as phoney as hillary (there was actually and exception with the FISA vote--although you do still suck and are still a warmonger, hillary, good job), people will be ready to listen to one of the few functional, sane congressmen out there, Dennis Kucinich.

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OBAMA NONSWIMMER
Posted by: LouisLouis on Jul 10, 2008 9:14 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the worst and saddest disappointment of a very young century. can someone call michelle obama and (aaarrrgghh...) hillary and make barrack stand up again?
our brightest hope seems all ready to break OUR promises, cos, remember what he said: it was OUR campaign. WE brought him that far. but as soon as he reaches the lovely spheres of power he forgets about all he was about. power/money kills everything- first of all promising candidates.

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» RE: OBAMA NONSWIMMER Posted by: Lauren
World Can't Wait says it all: We need a movement!
Posted by: Bastet62 on Jul 10, 2008 9:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We Need a Movement to Bring All This to A Halt!

The World Can’t Wait – Drive Out the Bush Regime June 2008

When a government practices torture as policy, invades other countries that do not threaten it, thus committing, according to the UN Charter, the highest war crime of all, carries out raids and mass detentions of people, muzzles science and scientists, fires and bans the books of professors and teachers that dissent from its policies, outlaws abortion rights, repeals the right to challenge your indefinite detention, openly spies upon all of its citizens, declares itself above the law, and moves aggressively to install a narrow, extremist brand of theocracy upon the people … when that government is your government … then what is your responsibility?

Seven years ago, the Bush regime set out to radically remake society, in a fascist way for generations to come. People looked at all of this and thought of Hitler, and they were right to do so. Since then, with the active participation of both major political parties, the regime has radically altered the shape of U.S. society and locked in a global trajectory of wars for empire with no regard for human cost or conscience.

This new normalcy, greased by official LIES, the terror of U.S. sponsored torture, and a passive populace, sets the stage and framework for the ’08 Presidential contest.

Will the defining elements of this direction be legitimized and codified by the ‘08 election? Putting hopes and energies into a savior from the Democratic Party -- when this direction is not being challenged -- only serves to de-mobilize people.

While Barack Obama and John McCain, each in their own way, distance themselves from the debacle of the Bush years, neither of them, and no significant force within the halls of power, is challenging this fundamental direction. Both have endorsed a military attack on Iran as an acceptable option.

No significant voice in your government is demanding the global network of U.S. detention centers, the rendering of U.S. captives to even less-restrained torture states, or the U.S.’s own policy of torture – codified in the Military Commissions Act which passed with bi-partisan support – be repealed.

No serious presidential contender is staking his campaign on reversing the PATRIOT Act, the widespread domestic wire-tapping, the prosecution of journalists who blow the whistle, or the firing of professors setting a chill in academia.

Neither major candidate is insisting on an immediate end to the Gestapo-style raids of immigrants or to the criminalization of a whole generation of black youth and others that has resulted in the largest prison population in the world.

No major politician is denouncing the very narrow and hateful brand of Christian fundamentalism which is massively restricting abortion and birth control and exporting “abstinence-only” programs to AIDS ravaged countries around the world with potential genocidal impact. Rather than repudiating its intolerance, bigotry and ignorance both presidential nominees are maneuvering to seize the mantle of traditional morality. And as the planet is imperiled by environmental disaster, neither is fighting without compromise against the undermining of science itself, including the foundational scientific fact of evolution.

The "pendulum” is not “swinging back." Never before has a sole-super power held so much of the world in such peril. Never before have the crimes of one empire threatened the future of so much of humanity.
This is what sets the terms of debate among those vying to be the new Commander-In-Chief.

Only you – not your government! – can bring this whole fascist direction to a HALT!

Read the rest of this statement at www.worldcantwait.org

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Small comfort
Posted by: LeeAnnG on Jul 10, 2008 9:17 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone who believed that Obama is a liberal was the victim of wishful thinking. In the past year, a "political compass" test at http://www.politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2008 became available (it's still there) which asked questions concerning attitudes and beliefs. It separates not only right and left ideology, but also authoritarian and libertarian.

All the major candidates except Kucinich (if one considered him a major candidate) fell into the right/authoritarian quadrant. Kucinich was in the left/libertarian quadrant. For some reason, Ron Paul does not appear, but I think another similar one put him in the right/libertarian area. Obama was only slightly to the left of Hillary Clinton.

Obama is only a "liberal" in the current political atmosphere. I've read that Nixon would be considered very liberal by today's standards, and that no one has been that far left since he resigned from office. Not being a real student of history or politics, I cannot vouch for that statement although it seems to ring true.

I support and will vote for Obama even though my responses to the political compass put me to the left of Kucinich and perhaps even Nader (who is also to the left of Kucinich). In spite of my belief that the two major parties are run by global corporations, the democrats seem a bit less horrific. I don't believe a Gore or Kerry presidency would have put the US in such dire straits.

Yes, the lesser of two evils is still evil, but we don't have a lot of choice. As many astute posters have noted in the past, no one to the left of Obama or Clinton has a chance to become president at this time. Obama knows how to play the game, and we've seen what Republicans do. I might be wrong, but it does appear that it can't get much worse. With Obama it might get better, however marginally.

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» RE: Small comfort Posted by: Lauren
Damn right
Posted by: droscify on Jul 10, 2008 9:22 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you for your common sense

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Tom Degan, you are the shit, thank you for saying the truth
Posted by: droscify on Jul 10, 2008 9:27 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
seriously folks. Obama's the most strait forward politician I've seen in my lifetime who's risen to this sort of prominence. No, he's not an ultra liberal. when's the last time a Democratic presidential nominee was? like some others have said, he's not even changing his position, its just becoming more common knowledge. And those asshole corporations we all decry will remain until this whole thing falls down, so anybody wanting to be president will need their approval. Hate to say it, but its the way thing are

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» WhuThe?.... Posted by: Tom Degan
» Maybe the plan was all along Posted by: WhuThe?!?
Open Letter - Senator Obama
Posted by: Len Miller on Jul 10, 2008 9:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wrote this letter to Senator Obama on his web-site BEFORE the FISA vote. I thought I would share it with Alternet-- I am very disappointed in him-- I will still vote for him (what other choice is there?) However," the bloom is a bit off the rose":

I am a strong supporter of Sen. Obama. I believe he presents the best chance for a new "politics" and a new manner of governance. However, I am deeply distressed in hearing that he is likely to vote for the present FISA legislation. Frankly, I am appalled that a Democratic Congress has left him in the position he is in. I understand that it takes a person of courage and integrity to stand up to the Political attacks that will come from the right if he were to lead the campaign to defeat this legislation in its present form. However, it is that very sense of character, that many of us think we see in him that should give him the courage to stand up for what he knows to be right and proper.

The right of privacy and protection of our freedom are primary to the difference in our country from many others in the World. Such freedoms and protections of our civil rights and liberties is what make us great.

I am appalled, as any American should be that Congress, particularly a Democratic Congress, would bow to the pressures of a disgraced and maniacal administration.

Respectfully, it is because you know that citizens of this country are demanding "change" - a change that requires that we go back to our roots and the basics of freedom and democracy.

When a batter is in a slump, when a football or basketball player is having problems, they return to the basics in order to restore their greatness. So it is with our country.

We must return to the basics-- protection of freedom of speech; freedom from spying eyes of government unless there is probable cause; the return of habeas corpus as a remedy and the protections of our privacy amongst others. Respectfully, if you want to turn the clock back, turn it back to the days when those freedoms and rights meant something. Do not permit this administration to make you cower. Stand up for what is right and good about us. We can regain our greatness if you will do that. That is why we depend on you. Do not let us down.

Respectfully, the present plan is unacceptable. It is not a compromise --it's blanket immunity. You must reject it.

Join with the Senators who have the strength of character to defeat this legislation.

What are you afraid of-- that you will be called "traitor" by a bunch of hypocritical cowards who are afraid of democracy and freedom? Stand up for your country and its citizens. Oppose any proposal that gives the green light for unchecked spying going forward. Do not permit loopholes for the president. If there are no consequences for illegal behavior, telecom companies will have no incentive to follow the law nor will the Executive Branch. It is in your hands. Do the right thing-- for us.

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» Don't reward obama, Posted by: WhuThe?!?
Leftists are no better than neocons.
Posted by: HughScott on Jul 10, 2008 10:01 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Neocons lie, lie, lie. Leftists whine, whine, whine.

The truth is, with all his failings, Senator Obama will make a far better president than John McCain. So stop the whining and start THINKING for a change.

Screw the FISA bill. If you want us out of Iraq, it will ONLY happen if Barack becomes America's next commander-in-chief.

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» Now why would you believe that? Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Leftists are no better than neocons. Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» What "Leftists?" Posted by: yellow
Obama not a 'betrayer'
Posted by: shinseiji on Jul 10, 2008 10:11 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There never was anything progressive about the candidate to begin with. Obama is not even particularly liberal - he's a solid part of the 'Washington Consensus' crowd, and he wants to be its latter day Woodrow Wilson.

The more honest Lesser Evilists, like the poster above, admit this, but then here is a question for them: Why do you want to put a big happy face spin on imperialism? Because it is pretty clear that is all Obama is about, a rebranding of Brand America. That is why Obama gets so much Wall Street backing, for example. But I don't see how this is in OUR interest.

What is in our interest is the exposure of the true face of imperialism, as revealed in far off places like Somalia, Iraq or Afghanistan. Kudos to Dubya and his neocon crew for doing more damage to US imperialism than all the past Presidents combined.

And that is a GOOD THING and why would any progressive want to reverse this great progress?

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» RE: Obama not a 'betrayer' Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Obama not a 'betrayer' Posted by: StillStanding
» RE: Obama not a 'betrayer' Posted by: Lauren
"Power Corrupts and Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely"--Lord Acton
Posted by: mclemens on Jul 10, 2008 10:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I’d like to propose that, for those with some critical thinking skills and experience in the relationship between theory and praxis, we resolutely step back from bipartisan mindlock. Or, in a more nuanced sense, we consider our potential political decisions and action in light of whether we accept as fundamental two premises: 1) the present articulation of Ameri-Kapitalist power (what used in the ‘60s to be called “The Establishment”) is intrinsically corrupt and immoral; and 2) Ameri-Kapitalist power is able to keep flying on two wings: Democratic and Republican.

Those of us who are concerned about human rights, social and economic justice, global/ecological interdependence and the like have grown so besotted or so outraged that we’re willing to believe anyone ephemerally positioned a modicum to the left of the present gang of pirates and psychopaths is an improvement. There’s already a lot of hooting and hollering from the left about how a McCain presidency will put finis to our constitutional rights via Supreme Court appointments or lead to global warfare, busting the Treasury and/or resulting in militaristic Armageddon. This is histrionic nonsense and no less deleterious to reasoned political thought as the right’s howling at the moon dressed up as “socialist incursions,” “erosion of family values,” and “appeasement to the forces of --------- (pick the demonology du jour).”

Our putatively guaranteed rights have always been tenuous and at risk where they are not simply empty phrases with no real-world application. As anyone who has studied US drug policy, interstate commerce, or employment law—to cite only three examples—can explain in detail, for most of us, our so-called “rights and freedoms” don’t really exist at all in many of the most essential areas of human endeavor. For any change to be meaningful in dismantling oppression and exploitation, it must come from the grassroots—from the bottom up. Abuse of power will never be resolved by “executive fiat.” Maybe a McCain presidency—‘scuse me, corporate dictatorship—is what it will finally take to provoke public insurrection against the forces for big money and entrenched power which are strangling us as a society. Personally, I doubt significant positive change in this country will come any other way—if, that is, it should come at all.

Obama’s FISA vote is just one more example of how anyone who reaches national electoral status in the Democratic party will have been able to do so by becoming complicit in the prevailing structure of oppression. Look at the history of the Mississippi Freedom Party in '64 or the nomination of warmonger-pharmacist Humphrey in '68. The Democrat will at least sing us a lullaby while locking us up; the Republican proclaims “It’s for your own good,” and slams the cell door (Premise 2). Ergo, we have no choice but to return to Premise 1, or—as I have lately been hearing it bandied about—“a vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil.” Vote your conscience, protest the lack of a real progressive candidate, but for goodness' sake, don't batter and abandon your principles because Tweedledum has a nicer ass than Tweedledumber.

Obama is an inspiring speaker and astute politician; his voting record, choice of advisors, and recent pandering to right-tilting independents demonstrate that he is in no wise a progressive, or even a leftist as understood by the readers of this site—at best he can be described as centrist. Voting for him to forestall the entrenched depredations of an intrinsically corrupt, exploitative social system reminds me of the echt Germanische electing as President the doddering 84-year-old Hindenburg to forestall the rise of Nazism in 1932. Guess who was Chancellor—and in full control of the government—one year later?

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Again, why do WE want a 'better President'?
Posted by: shinseiji on Jul 10, 2008 10:32 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I certainly don't!

And please spare the crocodile tears over the poor ole' American people or people in countries attacked and invaded by imperialism and how they suffer under Bush and the Repubs. They suffered under Clinton and they'll suffer under Obama.

And Lesser Evilists know it!

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Dick Cheney and Barack Obama are 8th Cousins
Posted by: Persephone8 on Jul 10, 2008 11:08 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niGLijlQ6WU&feature=related

This statement comes from Dick Cheney's wife, Lynne Cheney

from her new book. She AND Barack Obama have found the same

genealogical connection and proof. They are both somehow related to

Brad Pitt, who is deeply involved with Angelina Jolie in U.N issues.

Who's their 9th cousin- Hitler?

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» and oh yeah! Posted by: foreverhope
» Who died and made the 2 Posted by: Persephone8
» "Only when she has had enough.." Posted by: Persephone8
OBAMA for the FASCIST KOOL-AID STATE
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Jul 10, 2008 12:49 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama is a uniquely glib, handsome and charismatic Stepford actor.

He was made to order for his role of distraction where Denzel Washington or Morgan Freeman couldn’t put on a better performance. Truth is, Mister Obama works for his paymasters that essentially own a Washington-MSM and “education” axis establishment. A de facto FASCIST organized CORPORATE MONOPOLY CRIME STATE.

Or a Kool-Aid State , if you like where “right” and “left” are window dressing to get the gullible into the circus tent and take them blind as they drink that all-important and all-purpose Kool-Aid. An ongoing con job responsible for 9/11 “war on terror” of a thousand lies (Center for Public Integrity) palmed off for genocide of a million lives (British ORB report) on the public nickel under a complete criminal hijack of an American FISA spy nation.

At the risk of being redundant, the late and great George Carlin said it so virtually anyone could understand FASCISM in the west:

"Forget the politicians. They’re irrelevant. The politicians are put there to give you the idea you have freedom of choice. You don’t. You have no choice. You have OWNERS. They OWN YOU. They own everything.

They own all the important land, they own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses; the city halls. They’ve got the judges in their back pockets. And they own all the big media companies…They’ve got you by the BALLS.”

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This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» RE: Progressives?!! Posted by: Holla
» RE: Progressives?!! Posted by: Sissy
» RE: Progressives?!! Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: Progressives?!! Posted by: Holla
» RE: Progressives?!! Posted by: Sissy
Man O Man
Posted by: foreverhope on Jul 10, 2008 1:27 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some of you are the craziest over-the-top knee-jerk reactionaires I have EVER met. And what was that about Cheney, Obama, Brad Pitt, Angelina and the U.N. and Hitler? Another absolutely outlandish lunatic conspiracy theory, some of you seem to live on that stuff.

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The Constitution has been Murdered
Posted by: Enkidu Nwyvre on Jul 10, 2008 2:23 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not once in all the commentary is there one statement about the fact that the Constitution prohibits Ex Post Facto laws. To make a law that "retroactively" changes the law was correctly recognized to DESTROY the Rule of Law. If the Law does not mean what it says at the time it says because it can be Ex Post Facto changed then there is NO LAW....

That above all makes this law a GRAVE CRIME. The Democrats have shown themselves to be as bad as Bush and the Conservatives, what they are conserving I do not know because it isn't the Constitution, Obama unfit for any office and McCain a coward....

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There is Only One Solution...
Posted by: loxias on Jul 10, 2008 2:26 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Amass personal wealth and use it to affect change in a positive manner. That is how everything is decided, especially anything that makes an impact. The choreographers of assets wield all the power there is. Only by owning land can you dictate its use. Only by having wealth, can you regulate wealth. Every time you use your credit card unnecessarily, you lose. That's your vote. Diebold has not the power to choose your lifestyle. Apathy transfers your capacity to engage to the institutions you decry. It's a fatal bathos. Arm your minds while you bolster Golconda, in order to battle Pelf.

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» RE: You are exactly right Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
McBama O'Cain (II)
Posted by: lorenbliss on Jul 10, 2008 2:40 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Expect constant repetition of the FISA treachery as election day draws closer. Any leftist who believes there is ANYTHING to be gained by an Obama presidency need only look at how he voted in the Senate yesterday to (1) further empower the president of the U.S. as a defacto emperor and indeed the new Tsar; (2) nullify what little remained of the Fourth Amendment (and thereby gravely undermine the First and Fifth amendments), and (3) grant Big Business (and thus the Big Business aristocracy -- that is, the ruling class) permanent pre-revolutionary French or Tsarist-Russian status as forever above the law.

In other words, Obama is as much an enemy of the Constitution as McCain (or any other politician whose ultimate loyalty is to capitalism, Big Business and the Big Business ruling class).

This total and absolute betrayal of the popular expectations that earned Obama the presumptive Democratic nomination is, of course, just the beginning of a presidency that will merely fill the air with words to conceal the fact that whomever is elected -- Demican or Republocrat, McBama or O'Cain -- we voters are (and now obviously forever will be) nothing more than the powerless subjects of a fascist, increasingly theocratic empire.

Meanwhile, multitudes cling to the Democrats in the deluded conviction “at least they are for Choice.”

Examined thoughtfully -- something too many instinctively anti-intellectual Americans are loathe to do -- even this Democratic claim proves to be yet another Big Lie. Sure the Democrats call themselves "pro choice." But in truth every Democratic vote for NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT, WTO (and all the other job-stealing measures of the Global Sweatshop Economy) is a vote against health care. This is because in the U.S. -- where the loss of your job means the loss of your health insurance -- all such votes prohibit not just access to abortions but to any other form reproductive choice. (Even if you’re flung into poverty so deep you qualify for Medicaid, the federal funding of abortions was outlawed by the theocrat Carter, and years of Reagan/Bush/Clinton/Bush governance have gradually expanded that ban into total prohibition against funding any birth control save abstinence: just as the ruling class might have said in the antebellum South, “gotta keep them slaves a-breedin.”)

Thus the only real difference between Democrats and Republicans is rhetoric. Both parties serve Big Business and Big Business only -- the ruling class. Thus both parties work on behalf the ruling class to undermine the Constitution, to protect the ruling class by imposing a new Dark Age of slavery and serfdom on all the rest of us, and to solidify their efforts with the inescapable shackles of fascism and theocracy -- shackles that, in a world already purged of all effective opposition, will truly last forever: that is, until humanity itself becomes extinct. While the Republicans boast ever more openly of their intent -- the GOP elephant might as well be replaced by the tyrannosaurus of capitalism -- the Democrats (who in their hearts are every bit as predatory) still try to hide their fangs behind lies and hypocrisy.

A few of us are at last beginning to realize what obtains. Not that it will make any difference in the long run, save perhaps that it is psychically useful to correctly name one's enemy -- or one’s terminal disease.

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Who's Left of Whom?
Posted by: Sparks56 on Jul 10, 2008 4:13 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama didn't even wait for the convention to dump the progressive/left base that helped him beat Hillary. Well, he doesn't need you anymore; he's going after the red-staters with both big feet. Those are the people he needs to beat McCain. A vote in favor of the Gestapo?!! To let Bush and the telecoms off the hook for illegal spying on US citizens?!! Hillary knew how to vote on that one. Maybe she doesn't look so bad now, eh?
Adios, lefties! You've just been kissed off by your golden shining prince.

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A modest proposal
Posted by: StillStanding on Jul 10, 2008 4:30 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many people on this page, in addition to expressing outrage at Obama's disgrace, are suggesting ways to work ourselves out of the abyss of the 2-party corporate monopoly.

Obviously, withdrawing one's vote and financial support from Obama are two basic things you can do.

But I think an adjunct to that would be to seek out independent progressive candidates to oppose democratic and republican incumbents who have betrayed us. One example of that is Cindy Sheehan's independent run against Nancy Pelosi (who also voted for the FISA bill). If progressives can pick off some of these seats, we can start to build a core representation for a new political entity.

I see no sense in trying to heal the two existing parties - they are beyond repair. It's time to think outside the box and forge new instruments for progressive empowerment.

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» RE: A modest proposal Posted by: Ahimsa
'Instruments for Progressive Empowerment'
Posted by: lorenbliss on Jul 10, 2008 5:16 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only real "instrument for progressive empowerment" is Marxism. All else -- just as history has repeatedly proven -- lacks the insight, discipline and strength necessary to resist the capitalist onslaught.

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» RE: Just say No to Authoritarian economic systems Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
What politicians do
Posted by: Ahimsa on Jul 11, 2008 11:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
During electoral campaigns, what politicians do is say things, promise things and project things that will get them elected.
It doesn't necessarily reflect what will happen if they get elected.
Does anyone remember W's promises?
Now, voting to pass FISA is an entirely different thing.
It is a deep stab in the hopes of any (however slight) move beyond the empire of corporate plutocracy.
I feel f#%ed by Obama, yet he is still my only option.

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Would anyone be interested in this? if so let me know
Posted by: foreverhope on Jul 11, 2008 12:16 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I could begin a group for you on Yahoo. Some of you get together there and create a petition to indict the BUSH/CHENEY administration. GET IT ALL OUT THERE, EVERY EVIL ILLEGAL THING!

People could download the petition. Put a petition like this into the hands of thousands, collect millions of signatures, respectfully requesting PRESIDENT OBAMA to appoint a special counsel to investigate ALL OF IT.

That would be much more practical than attempting to launch a third party candidate. The election is about 115 days away! I will be the first to sign that petition (if properly drafted of course).

Kucinich (bless his sweet heart) has already brilliantly laid the groundwork with his recent articles of impeachment against GWB/CHENEY. We could use those articles to draft the petition, most of it is probably right there, easy peasy.

NOW! To deliever these petitions we enlist the help of Cindy Sheehan and veteran's orgs opposing the war. Organize "A Million March For Peace" on Washington DC.

Even though you might wish for something more spectacular and dramatic I can guarantee what I am proposing can be done, it should be done, the press would be fantastic. It will put the war and the misdeeds of GWB on the front page and in the face of our collective leaders both dem and repug and will take you closer to what you want than attempting to launch a third party candidate and so very little time left to do it.

Let me know if anyone is interested in this, very glad to help. I would truly love to see this happen.

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» I propose Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: I propose Posted by: grkjr
I hate to say it...
Posted by: WhuThe?!? on Jul 11, 2008 4:51 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but it will be business as usual until the americans themselves start suffering from their apathy and egotism...when they start suffering from real poverty, when their young daughters are forced to carry to term unwanted pregnancies, when their children are drafted and die horrific deaths, when their friends are being locked up for being too vocal, etc. A McBush presidency might get us there, but continuing on the present democrat and repug one party cycle will do it eventually. Both these parties support violent and unethical international policy, and some Wright fella once said, “The chickens are coming home to roost.”

We need to change to peace. We need to change our ways. Most really do want peace, but this system has them scared to do it. They, both parties, keep telling the people how scared we must be, that everybody wants to harm us—damn, that is a teenage level of cognition! And the press keeps framing the liberals as extremist whackos.

So a big percentage of us quit being scared and rob most of the democrat vote and cause a republican to win again and we continue the downward spiral. Perhaps they will finally see that the true path to getting this country back to what it was based upon is to quit being scared and join the liberals who want to make this a better world for everybody, present or future, friend or stranger. Maybe their personal lives will get so bad they will be forced to think for themselves for the first time in their lives—that would be a good thing! Maybe I sound cruel, but I really believe that is the way it has to happen; Americans really don’t get it still.

If a big percentage of us start consistently voting liberal (aka third-party) the democrats will HAVE TO join the more enlightened--their votes will no longer matter (as ours don’t now because most of us are too scared), as we liberals will be robbing too many votes from the repug-lites and/or fear-controlled crowd (of which I have been a member until now) They will no longer feel the need to vote repug-lite because they just wouldn’t have the numbers anymore. They will be forced to go left because they will see true freedom, as much as it frightens them, is way better than the oppression, fear and insecurity the current one-party system will increasingly give them.

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Revenge Voting
Posted by: Counselor1 on Jul 13, 2008 10:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Revenge voting won't work. Republicans kicked out will become higher paid lobbyists for interests they already favored. Democrats calculate they'll win, because they are the only other game in town. Private money isn't out of politics. That's why even Obama does not represent change anyone should believe in. Between Bush and the whole Congress they can't even require a gas-conserving national speed limit like Roosevelt in 1942 and Nixon in 1974.
Since we drift toward Depression and another war, these comatose parties need shock therapy. Change your voter registration to Independent, or Libertarian or Green. That tells them “No more support unless you break gridlock and act before November!”
Americans of past ages risked lives, property and honor for independence, freedom from slavery, destruction of fascism. Do we have the brains, care and courage to go to a voter registration office and change our voter registration?

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Understanding US Imperialism
Posted by: SuperDavid on Jul 19, 2008 5:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you REALLY want to understand US foreign policy, you MUST read this free online book:

Addicted To War

Peace!

SuperDavid

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Committed
Posted by: bobtr900 on Jul 20, 2008 1:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am totally committed to voting for Obama for a lot of reasons. I knowq some of us are disappointed in what Obama has done and said. But he is by far the better candidate.

He may be doing what has to be done to get elected. So I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

McCain is just a throw away. The Rethugs don't want to waste a better candidate on an election that they are highly likely to lose.

Obama has a good brain and a good education and is smart.

Should the American people give the Dems a 'super majority' and should they not use it to correct the Bush/Cheney disaster, the fascist business disaster and the neocon disaster and the RR disaster, then I will consider moving to the Green party.

Should Obama not win the '08 election, this country is in for one hell of a bad time. The Bush family and the religious right are not done with us, not by a long shot. We had better all hope and pray that Obama wins.

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