COMMENTS: 44
Obama-Care Versus McCain-Care: Real Differences in Plans for Our Health System
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Yet, even though many people cannot get access to care, we still pay more than twice as much per person as the average in other wealthy countries. And we have the worst outcomes. Only a severely over-medicated politician would claim we have the best health care system in the world.
As bad as the current system is, it keeps getting worse. The number of people who are uninsured year round is at 47 million and rising. The costs also keep rising. Companies are increasingly dropping insurance for their workers, or forcing workers to pick up a larger share of the bill. The explosion of health care costs is the basis for all the scare stories that budget hawks use to cut "entitlements." Since half of the country's health care costs are paid by the government, if we don't fix the health care system, it will eventually destroy the economy - and also lead to very scary budget deficits.
So, what do the candidates offer? Following in the Republican tradition of referring to health care plans by the first name of their principal backer, let's see what the candidates propose.
John-Care is a plan to get rid of the employer-based insurance that most of us rely on presently. Senator McCain would eliminate the tax deductibility of employer-provided insurance, in effect requiring employers who offer insurance to take money out of workers' paychecks for their tax liability on their health insurance.
Needless to say, this will make dealing with insurers even less attractive to businesses. Most employers will soon get out of the health insurance business and leave it to workers to buy their own plan. Toward this end, John-Care would give every worker a $2,500 tax credit, or $5,000 for a family.
This will not be sufficient to cover the cost of insurance for many families, especially those with serious health problems. Insurance companies don't like to insure people in bad health. While John-Care does provide a modest pool (at $7 billion to $10 billion) to help people with health problems to get insurance, this is a tiny fraction of what would be needed. Essentially, the McCain plan would undermine the current employer-provided system, and leave millions of people with health problems unable to buy insurance.
By contrast, Barack-Care would build on the current system. It would create a publicly run Medicare-type plan that any employer or individual can buy into. This would provide an additional option for people unhappy with their current insurance. However, those who are pleased with their current insurance would be able to stay with their plan under Barack-Care.
Barack-Care would also reform the private market, prohibiting insurers from charging more to people with health conditions, a rule that is already in place in several states. This would mean workers need not fear being unable to get insurance if they develop a serious illness and lose their job.
Barack-Care would also have subsidies for low- and moderate-income families to ensure they can afford to buy insurance. These subsidies would be financed by a fee assessed on employers who don't provide insurance. The basic story is that every employer (with a small business exemption) will have to contribute towards their workers' health care. They can either buy insurance directly, or they can contribute to a general fund to pay for insurance.
So, those are the basic outlines of the two candidates' health care plans. Senator Obama would build on the system that is already in place and offer people an additional option - buying into a Medicare-type public plan. By contrast, Senator McCain wants to get rid of the current system of employer-provided insurance and force everyone to buy insurance as individuals.
In terms of health care policy, this is by far the sharpest difference between presidential nominees the country has ever seen. Hopefully, people will be aware of these distinctions when they cast their votes in November.
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Comments are closed-
» Alternet, where are your editors?
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
Comments are closed-
Posted by: powerofbelief on Jul 11, 2008 3:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is already an excellent health care reform bill (HR 676). As a not-for-profit government owned single payer health care, this bill would cover everyone and eliminate the need for the immoral insurance industry.
I dont think we should be satified with either Obama or Mccain's health care plan. Vote for Obama if you are in a swing state, but continue to pressure his campaign. We can do much better than what they are offering.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Let's all unite with either Nader or McKinney,
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» Hells Yeah!
Posted by: antiapathy
» RE: Single Payer Health-Care System ~ Vote Green
Posted by: mmckinl
Comments are closed-
Posted by: drricklippin on Jul 11, 2008 3:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Watch for jingoistic comments about "socialized medicine" from him and his surrogates.
While he is trying desperately to expand his campaign agenda he is basically about trying to be elected on the issue of fear. Fear of what he constantly calls "the most defining issue of our times- the threat of radical Islamofacism"
This is a pathetic unifocal campaign that demeans all Americans.
Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Isn't that what the repugs are supposed to be about?
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bthespoon on Jul 11, 2008 4:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama's would still let profit-driven health insurers single out and rate up (financially discriminate against) sick people, plus would take a huge chunk of our tax dollars (billions more) to feed the beast that is the (main part of the) problem (profit-driven health insurers).
Here in Illinois we pay private health insurers $1750 to cover All Kids in KidCare, and our kids receive an average of $600 worth of medical care in return. Obama wants to take this concept to the national stage.
Please wake up, America. Real people are really dieing while we fiddle. Both candidates want to make us pay even more, but we're paying too much and getting too little already. Americans are catching onto the fact that we easily could be paying less and getting more.
So our main choice is between someone who knows what needs to be done but won't do it, and another who simply doesn't have a clue. Yay.
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» RE: Both plans make problem worse not better
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» The profit-driven health insurers
Posted by: bthespoon
Comments are closed-
Posted by: vkobaya on Jul 11, 2008 5:09 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: maxpayne on Jul 11, 2008 6:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
VOTENADER.ORG !!!!!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Quit being afraid folks!
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» Bull
Posted by: Timba
» But the Democrats must be taught another FUCKING lesson !!!!!!!
Posted by: maxpayne
» And I hate to say it...
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: wrong
Posted by: Scott Trimble
» RE: Quit being afraid folks!
Posted by: IntlDad
» RE: What's the guarentee that Obama will stick to his plan and not cave in to the GOP AGAIN ?!?
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: What's the guarentee that Obama will stick to his plan and not cave in to the GOP AGAIN ?!?
Posted by: powerofbelief
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Liberty G on Jul 11, 2008 8:09 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is the complete domination of the system by "mainstream" (actually allopathic) forces that make huge profits on expensive, drug, surgery and high-tech medical treatment. It is the fact that much of this care is self-perpetuating (many drugs are taken to deal with the "side effects" of others) and dangerous (conservative estimate of at least 100,000 dying each year from their doctor-prescribed treatment).
The other countries that do so much better for far less money all use some forms of alternative care - herbal, homeopathic, naturopathic, acupuncture, etc. England, at $2,000 per capita vs. $7,000 for the U.S., has 5 homeopathic hospitals, all covered by the National Health.
Their health results far surpass ours, and they cover everyone. Germany's Commission E, in the 1980s, did extensive research on traditional and herbal remedies, then covered those found safe and effective.
Until we make changes in the KIND of health care offered, the march toward medical bankrupcy will not be halted. The problem with single payer in the U.S. as opposed to elsewhere is that only we have single choice in what that will buy - and it is a really bad option. Why is it that a woman has a "right to choose" about having an abortion - but not about how she may decide to handle her health problems?
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: Sissy on Jul 11, 2008 8:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I never cease to be amazed when self-righteous politicans and so-called "health care experts" say "The United States has the best health care in the world". We don't and people who also claim that our Canadian neighbors are "unhappy" with their system are also dead wrong. I have many friends and some family in Canada and they shake their heads in dismay when I ask them that. "Are you crazy?" they reply, "why in the world when it costs $35.00 to go to the emergency room would we be "unhappy?"
There are nearly 50 million Americans currently without health insurance, we are nearly at the top of infant mortality and we are way down the list in longevity. From looking at the different country's health care systems, personally I find France to be a country to look at for a model. Each citizen is "guaranteed" health care but if they want a supplement to cover more, they can purchase it themselves.
I find it obscene that people in this country who have worked, paid taxes, lived their whole lives find that a catostrophic illness will cause them to give up their homes, borrow money, and ultimately be driven into poverty. Some people decide each month, "do I pay rent or buy my needed heart medicine?"
McCain's plan is a disaster, Obama's has possibilities.
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» RE: Affordable Health Care isn't going to happen
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: Affordable Health Care isn't going to happen
Posted by: Sissy
» Oppressive Mythologies About Health Care Reform
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Oppressive Mythologies About Health Care Reform
Posted by: Sissy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Jul 11, 2008 8:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Actually, most doctors now support single payer too!
Posted by: Scott Trimble
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HughScott on Jul 11, 2008 9:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you want the war to continue, vote for McCain. If not, vote for Obama. It's that simple.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Forget health care!
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» If you want the war to continue vote for McCain. Or Obama.
Posted by: antiapathy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Jul 11, 2008 11:51 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What kind of quality of life does a person have at that point?
They can barely move around, they are senile, they can't fuck anymore and even if they could who at that age would you possibly want to hook up with? There is only one Sophia Loren folks and I am pretty sure she is not on tour.
People are so afraid of death they will do anything and everything to avoid it no matter how low their quality of life is.
Get over it, we all die. Do we need to let nursing homes and funeral parlors rape us on the way out?
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» RE: Kill Yourself Before You Go Into the Nursing Home - Problem Solved
Posted by: richholland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: TJColatrella on Jul 11, 2008 3:08 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's that Simple and it would be best for our Industries as well as the people's well being...
Simple as that...
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Insurance based Single Payer is the only solution...
Posted by: mmckinl
» RE: Insurance based Single Payer is the only solution...
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Insurance based Single Payer is the only solution...
Posted by: Sissy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: drricklippin on Jul 11, 2008 8:05 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So Dean Baker, your comment in this piece, "Only a severely over-medicated politician would claim we have the best health care system in the world" is more relevant than you might imagine?
I forgot what meds McCain is taking?
Thanks,
Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton, Pa
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: the great omi on Jul 12, 2008 6:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think it is so damn strange to see ads for drugs on TV all the time, not only are insurance companies raping people on a regular basis, drug companies make huge profits too, and when was the last time you went to the doctor and whatever was wrong with you was cured, you probably got a bunch of drugs and had to come back for a followup not soon after.
Even third world countries have Universal Healthcare, what will it take to open people's eyes in this country.
We need and deserve Universal Healthcare, we need to start acting and demanding it now.
The biggets issue is that THE GOVERNMENT WORKS FOR US, WE ELECT THEM, we need to stop being afraid and start demanding what is right and deserved.
People need to open their eyes and start holding insurance companies accountable for their actions, like the murder of thousands of American citizens due to lack of insurance.
Let's put an end to this, we need to unite and stop the all mighty dollar from governing our lives, our kids and elders are dying to make a profit for some CEO in some insurance company, this is inhumane, we are better than that, let's prove it.
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» RE: Universal Healthcare is the answer
Posted by: CatDad
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Scott Trimble on Jul 15, 2008 11:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Therefore, while it is true that McCain's plan is horrible and Obama's plan is nothing to get excited about, none of that really matters.
John Conyers has introduced HR 676 and John Dingell has introduced HR 2034, both of which would create a national single-payer plan. If we can either get enough of our representatives and senators to support these bills, or elect replacements who will, then all the president has to do is sign the bill when it crosses his desk.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Jul 21, 2008 1:57 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Comments are closed-
» Alternet, where are your editors?
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
Comments are closed-
Posted by: powerofbelief on Jul 11, 2008 3:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is already an excellent health care reform bill (HR 676). As a not-for-profit government owned single payer health care, this bill would cover everyone and eliminate the need for the immoral insurance industry.
I dont think we should be satified with either Obama or Mccain's health care plan. Vote for Obama if you are in a swing state, but continue to pressure his campaign. We can do much better than what they are offering.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Let's all unite with either Nader or McKinney,
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» Hells Yeah!
Posted by: antiapathy
» RE: Single Payer Health-Care System ~ Vote Green
Posted by: mmckinl
Comments are closed-
Posted by: drricklippin on Jul 11, 2008 3:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Watch for jingoistic comments about "socialized medicine" from him and his surrogates.
While he is trying desperately to expand his campaign agenda he is basically about trying to be elected on the issue of fear. Fear of what he constantly calls "the most defining issue of our times- the threat of radical Islamofacism"
This is a pathetic unifocal campaign that demeans all Americans.
Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Isn't that what the repugs are supposed to be about?
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bthespoon on Jul 11, 2008 4:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama's would still let profit-driven health insurers single out and rate up (financially discriminate against) sick people, plus would take a huge chunk of our tax dollars (billions more) to feed the beast that is the (main part of the) problem (profit-driven health insurers).
Here in Illinois we pay private health insurers $1750 to cover All Kids in KidCare, and our kids receive an average of $600 worth of medical care in return. Obama wants to take this concept to the national stage.
Please wake up, America. Real people are really dieing while we fiddle. Both candidates want to make us pay even more, but we're paying too much and getting too little already. Americans are catching onto the fact that we easily could be paying less and getting more.
So our main choice is between someone who knows what needs to be done but won't do it, and another who simply doesn't have a clue. Yay.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Both plans make problem worse not better
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» The profit-driven health insurers
Posted by: bthespoon
Comments are closed-
Posted by: vkobaya on Jul 11, 2008 5:09 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maxpayne on Jul 11, 2008 6:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
VOTENADER.ORG !!!!!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Quit being afraid folks!
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» Bull
Posted by: Timba
» But the Democrats must be taught another FUCKING lesson !!!!!!!
Posted by: maxpayne
» And I hate to say it...
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: wrong
Posted by: Scott Trimble
» RE: Quit being afraid folks!
Posted by: IntlDad
» RE: What's the guarentee that Obama will stick to his plan and not cave in to the GOP AGAIN ?!?
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: What's the guarentee that Obama will stick to his plan and not cave in to the GOP AGAIN ?!?
Posted by: powerofbelief
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Liberty G on Jul 11, 2008 8:09 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is the complete domination of the system by "mainstream" (actually allopathic) forces that make huge profits on expensive, drug, surgery and high-tech medical treatment. It is the fact that much of this care is self-perpetuating (many drugs are taken to deal with the "side effects" of others) and dangerous (conservative estimate of at least 100,000 dying each year from their doctor-prescribed treatment).
The other countries that do so much better for far less money all use some forms of alternative care - herbal, homeopathic, naturopathic, acupuncture, etc. England, at $2,000 per capita vs. $7,000 for the U.S., has 5 homeopathic hospitals, all covered by the National Health.
Their health results far surpass ours, and they cover everyone. Germany's Commission E, in the 1980s, did extensive research on traditional and herbal remedies, then covered those found safe and effective.
Until we make changes in the KIND of health care offered, the march toward medical bankrupcy will not be halted. The problem with single payer in the U.S. as opposed to elsewhere is that only we have single choice in what that will buy - and it is a really bad option. Why is it that a woman has a "right to choose" about having an abortion - but not about how she may decide to handle her health problems?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Sissy on Jul 11, 2008 8:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I never cease to be amazed when self-righteous politicans and so-called "health care experts" say "The United States has the best health care in the world". We don't and people who also claim that our Canadian neighbors are "unhappy" with their system are also dead wrong. I have many friends and some family in Canada and they shake their heads in dismay when I ask them that. "Are you crazy?" they reply, "why in the world when it costs $35.00 to go to the emergency room would we be "unhappy?"
There are nearly 50 million Americans currently without health insurance, we are nearly at the top of infant mortality and we are way down the list in longevity. From looking at the different country's health care systems, personally I find France to be a country to look at for a model. Each citizen is "guaranteed" health care but if they want a supplement to cover more, they can purchase it themselves.
I find it obscene that people in this country who have worked, paid taxes, lived their whole lives find that a catostrophic illness will cause them to give up their homes, borrow money, and ultimately be driven into poverty. Some people decide each month, "do I pay rent or buy my needed heart medicine?"
McCain's plan is a disaster, Obama's has possibilities.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Affordable Health Care isn't going to happen
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: Affordable Health Care isn't going to happen
Posted by: Sissy
» Oppressive Mythologies About Health Care Reform
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Oppressive Mythologies About Health Care Reform
Posted by: Sissy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Jul 11, 2008 8:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Actually, most doctors now support single payer too!
Posted by: Scott Trimble
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HughScott on Jul 11, 2008 9:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you want the war to continue, vote for McCain. If not, vote for Obama. It's that simple.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Forget health care!
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» If you want the war to continue vote for McCain. Or Obama.
Posted by: antiapathy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Jul 11, 2008 11:51 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What kind of quality of life does a person have at that point?
They can barely move around, they are senile, they can't fuck anymore and even if they could who at that age would you possibly want to hook up with? There is only one Sophia Loren folks and I am pretty sure she is not on tour.
People are so afraid of death they will do anything and everything to avoid it no matter how low their quality of life is.
Get over it, we all die. Do we need to let nursing homes and funeral parlors rape us on the way out?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Kill Yourself Before You Go Into the Nursing Home - Problem Solved
Posted by: richholland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: TJColatrella on Jul 11, 2008 3:08 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's that Simple and it would be best for our Industries as well as the people's well being...
Simple as that...
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Insurance based Single Payer is the only solution...
Posted by: mmckinl
» RE: Insurance based Single Payer is the only solution...
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Insurance based Single Payer is the only solution...
Posted by: Sissy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: drricklippin on Jul 11, 2008 8:05 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So Dean Baker, your comment in this piece, "Only a severely over-medicated politician would claim we have the best health care system in the world" is more relevant than you might imagine?
I forgot what meds McCain is taking?
Thanks,
Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton, Pa
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: the great omi on Jul 12, 2008 6:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think it is so damn strange to see ads for drugs on TV all the time, not only are insurance companies raping people on a regular basis, drug companies make huge profits too, and when was the last time you went to the doctor and whatever was wrong with you was cured, you probably got a bunch of drugs and had to come back for a followup not soon after.
Even third world countries have Universal Healthcare, what will it take to open people's eyes in this country.
We need and deserve Universal Healthcare, we need to start acting and demanding it now.
The biggets issue is that THE GOVERNMENT WORKS FOR US, WE ELECT THEM, we need to stop being afraid and start demanding what is right and deserved.
People need to open their eyes and start holding insurance companies accountable for their actions, like the murder of thousands of American citizens due to lack of insurance.
Let's put an end to this, we need to unite and stop the all mighty dollar from governing our lives, our kids and elders are dying to make a profit for some CEO in some insurance company, this is inhumane, we are better than that, let's prove it.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Universal Healthcare is the answer
Posted by: CatDad
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Scott Trimble on Jul 15, 2008 11:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Therefore, while it is true that McCain's plan is horrible and Obama's plan is nothing to get excited about, none of that really matters.
John Conyers has introduced HR 676 and John Dingell has introduced HR 2034, both of which would create a national single-payer plan. If we can either get enough of our representatives and senators to support these bills, or elect replacements who will, then all the president has to do is sign the bill when it crosses his desk.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Jul 21, 2008 1:57 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
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