Its' got to be Barack's kinder, gentler coporatization.

That being said, the problems that America is facing will be coming home to roost. Much of what is being heard and said now will be of little consequence in a few short months.

There is Hell to pay and the credit card is maxed out.

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I see most of these as pre-emptives to help defeat McCain and they don't have much lasting effect. The death penalty decision has no effect given that Obama is not a Justice but it protects him against the Dukakis trap. The same goes with the 2nd Amendment issue. I didn't quite understand about the FISA bill but I think it may be in order to protect against the bipartisan attacks that are coming from McCain's camp. McCain is saying that Obama has never made the tough call on a bipartisan issue that put country above party. Obama can then take this FISA bill and say look how bad I am being hit by my own people for this one. Russ Feingold in his interview basically revealed that a lot of those Democrats supporting the bill are saying we can just write a better one after we get into office. So I don't think it will last more than 6 months into Obama's term. Its not like if Obama wants to get re-elected that he is going to veto such an attempt, that would be political suicide. With all of this said, I still like most of you are a little disappointed about him and the rest of the party not making the symbolic fight against it. But that does not stop me from being 100% in Obama's corner.

P.S. It would be great if Feingold was the VP, I knew he was an Obama supporter and an upright fighter but I had not seen his speaking ability. He comes with the same level of innate intelligence and uprightness that I glean from listening to Obama.

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Paul Krugman told us months ago that Obama's proposed policies were to the right of Hillary Clinton's. Not to mention John Edward's. But somehow Moveon.org decided to support the most "conservative" of the "mainstream" candidates....

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Does anybody remember there's a war going on in Iraq? And that Hillary was very, very late to disavow her support and Barack never gave his? That's my bottom line, progressive issue. For that reason alone, I'd expect MoveOn supporters to go for Obama.

Now the reality sets in. Compromise has always been his strategy, going back to his days on the Harvard Law Review. He holds out an olive branch to the gun nuts and another to the executioners and yet another to the market economists. So far, he seems not to have sucked up to the oil industry. Maybe he'll leave that one to McCain and profit from it.

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As someone who has a blog linked on the off the bus Huffington Post blog roll, I notice that there has been much skittles and beer over Obama's support of the revised FISA bill. For myself, I became thoroughly disenchanted with Barack Obama the day after he became the presumptive nominee, and gave that utterly ridiculous speech to AIPAC, where he went as military right wing as possible, promising $30 billion in aide to Israel over the next decade, declaring: "whoever threatens Israel threatens us". Not a single blessed word was spoken about the injustice being done to the Palestinians, while at the same time endorsing the land grab by declaring that Jerusalem should be the undivided capitol of Israel. I guess that was another example of "overheated rhetoric" as he put it.
I know it was a tough room to speak reality to, but if he would have said that Israel, a sovereign country, has to settle its problems without US assistance, I would be campaigning for the Illinois Senator.
But his back tracking on NAFTA, his weird embrace of extending the death penalty, makes you wonder what kind of change he is talking about. It should be remembered that when war monger Joe Lieberman lost in the Senate primary to Ned Lamont, Barack Obama went and campaigned for...you guessed it, Joe Lieberman.

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It is hard for me to believe that you, gentle readers, have been so naive to believe that Mr. Obama would be any different than Bush, Clinton or (choke) Mr. McCaine when it comes to political expediency. From Whence did you think this fresh faced senator came from? He who was virtually unheard of until this presidential election? He was brought to you by the same people who brought us a one term governor from Texas, an obscure governor from Arkansas, Ronald Reagan, for heaven' sake. We have no choice again this year in the presidential sweepstakes. For decades we have "voted" for the lesser of two evils. This year, no matter who "wins", the general US population loses. Corporations and the Pentagon War Mongers, Big Bankers, Big Pharma, Big Agriculture, Big Everything Else win and land their "candidate" into the White House. We the people have been completely disenfranchised. WE do not count, not our votes, our letters, our cries for justice and liberty for all......this simply is not in the equation and hasn't been since Abraham Lincoln's time. Lest you need reminding, or haven't read your unbiased history lessons, Lincoln wasn't assassinated because of his liberation of southern slaves, but for his clear-eyed and vocal stance against corporatism and the proposed federal reserve system in which independent banks would control the country's currency. We the People will never again have "representative government" until we begin it at the local and state level, helping to elect people from within our own ranks, not those vetted by the existing powers that be. We will not have "representative
government" until all election laws are changed to NOT allow corporate control over who gets the bucks to run. ALL federal election campaigns should be publicly financed so that persons like Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul can actually be heard. Until that happens (about the time hell freezes), we are doomed to sham elections in which only corporate clowns are allowed to run for federal or state office. Disappointed in Obama? How could you be when you should know better?

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...since just after his famous keynote speech at the 2004 Democratic National Convention, when a reporter asked him whether, if he was elected to the Senate, he would finish out his term, no matter how good he thought the chances of a run for the presidency.

Exactly whose idea was it to float that particular balloon?

He hadn't yet gotten beyond state politics. (He was crushed by Bobby Rush in the Dem primary for the US House just a coule of years before.)

He talks about being against the Iraq war from before its beginning, but that was while he was in state government. Is there a war-funding bill he has actually voted against?

He did introduce the Iraq War De-Escalation Act, but that was a meaningless gesture: it hadn't a chance - and it was introduced the month prior to his announcement of his candidacy.

So now, for all you "I really like Kucinich, but he hasn't got a chance, so I'm voting for Obama in the primary" folks: Still think you made the right choice?

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Stop whining! That will do for starters. Then count your freaking blessings that Obama just may win the election despite all of the dirty tricks that the Repugs will pull on him. He is the most liberal Senator for a reason. Whether or not DC has a gun ban is of no great consequence to the vast majority of us. If folks are going to kill each other, they will find a way...they were doing it long before guns were invented. Obama brings so many other rational and reasonable ideas to the table. We must be careful no tho throw the baby out with the bath water.

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Politics is just like everything else; from music to beer, to tv shows; in order to gain mass appeal you must become increasingly bland. Obama knows that he's already got the progressive vote, so now he has to grab people closer to the right. Honestly I cant blame him. We live in a country full of idiots, and in order to get their votes you have to appeal to their values, however ridiculus they are. Obama definately wont live up to all the hype, our government just doesn't work that way. But the bottom line is that he is Infinitely better than Mccain, and anybody that would go to the mccain side purely out of spite is a friggin idiot.

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Carlin said: "The real owners are the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians, they're an irrelevancy. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They've long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the statehouses, the city halls. They've got the judges in their back pockets.

And they own all the big media companies, so that they control just about all of the news and information you hear. They've got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying -- lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want; they want more for themselves and less for everybody else.

"But I'll tell you what they don't want, they don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that. That doesn't help them. That's against their interests. They don't want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and figure out how badly they're getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago.

You know what they want? Obedient workers -- people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork but just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. And, now, they're coming for your Social Security. They want your fucking retirement money. They want it back, so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They'll get it. They'll get it all, sooner or later, because they own this fucking place. It's a big club, and you ain't in it. You and I are not in the big club."

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1st volley missed the target, it seems but you can always count on a transgressor to transgress. For those who care, log onto www.counterpunch.com/reichel06262008.html and read his "There's No Hope at the Ballot Box." A man's got to believe in something, I believe I'll have another drink!

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Certain people who have bought into the fact that Progressives own Barack Obama and every thought he has, every opinion he has, every decision he's going to make, and every vote he'll cast truly astonish me. That is as childish as a political attitude can get.

What you have in Barack Obama is someone who is his own man, all of whose work has been dedicated to social justice through compromise-- through bringing people on two sides together and forging alliances, which then create livable policy. This is what he is most known for, since he was in school. This is the person with whom you were formerly so enamored--not someone who will poll you every time he says a word. If you didn't know that, then you, netroot that you may be, have NOT researched your candidate.

The strongest concept in considering guardianship and fiduciary relationships is that the documents granting the role should limit the powers of the guardian or fiduciary as little as possible, so that the person may act fully and freely for the benefit of his charge. The fiduciary bond lies in the person, not in the document. You must choose your fiduciary wisely, someone in whom you can place implicit trust. When you do that, you do not need to circumscribe powers.

We are choosing Barack Obama because of the person we feel he is, and the heart and mind he will bring to the Presidency for the greater good. Or rather, some of us are thinking that way, and others are like people I've seen drawing up their Durable Powers of Attorney as a ten-page document of powers and prohibitions, the specifics of which may fail them at a critical moment.

So, go ahead. Have agida every time Barack takes a stand on something--major or minor. I warn you that if you read an account of his words without reading the very words he said, you may be basing your opinion on the opinion of another person who didn't understand. Barack is famously subtle and talks like a Constitutional lawyer, and sometimes you have to fish for what he means.

Go ahead. Say you may not be able to live with this decision, or that opinion, and won't work for him anymore, or can't vote for him. Keep it up.

What, in reality, are you setting yourself up to live with?

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10 reasons why I will vote for Barack in November:

1. Move the Supreme Court back to center
2. Clean rightwing extremists/PNAC members out of the federal government
3. Uncover the secret Cheney agreement with oil big wigs that caused gasoline prices to rise
4. Secure better GI benefits for Iraq war veterans
5. Kick ass in Afghanistan and kill Osama bin Laden
6. Improve the economy
7. Dump the unfair Bush tax cuts
8. Stop torture
9. McCain is too old
10. I like Barack -- a lot!

Enough said.

Hugh E. Scott, Vietnam veteran, ex-USAF pilot and the editor of www.PhonyFighterPilot.com -- the only website about George W. Bush that presents irrefutable, smoking-gun proof of White House corruption.

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Sorry, none of those issues are deal-breakers for me, and besides -- haven't we got it through our heads yet that campaign promises are mostly smoke and mirrors? If you peer through the smoke, sometimes you can catch a glimpse of the person you're thinking of voting for, but it takes more than just running down the laundry list and checking off everything you agree with.

Barack Obama isn't running for savior. He isn't a messiah and he doesn't claim to be one. Electing a candidate is only the first step. The second step is keeping the pressure on; then you repeat the second step until the person leaves office. This requires serious organizing. The special interests are seriously organized; do we think we're going to have our way just because we're (as we see it) right?

I think the real news here is that many of these MoveOnners and Netrooters and HuffPosters are looking for a savior. They send e-mails and click the "contribute!" button and maybe show up at a demo somewhere and think they're well enough organized to call the shots. When the candidate of their choice disappoints them, they throw a hissy fit then go off to sulk.

Politics is about compromise. "Compromise" doesn't mean you're going to hell -- it means you've acknowledged that it's a big country and lots of people don't see things the way you do. No candidate can please all of the people all of the time. No candidate can please one single person all of the time -- hell, I'm not always happy with what I do or say, and I doubt Barack Obama is 100% pleased with himself either. I suspect that George W. Bush is 100% pleased with himself, and that's why he's such a scary dude.

None of us, as individuals or as organizations, is going to get everything we want, but if we're really, really lucky we may get what we as a country need.

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Extracted from the Los Angeles Times, Sunday, June 22:

Hensley & Co., one of the nation's major beer wholesalers, has brought the family of Cindy McCain wealth, prestige and influence in Phoenix, but it could also create conflicts for her husband, Sen. John McCain, if he is elected president in November.

Founded by Cindy's late father, the company has opposed such groups as Mothers Against Drunk Driving in fighting proposed federal rules requiring alcohol content information on every package of beer, wine and liquor.

Hensley has run afoul of health advocacy groups that have tried to rein in appeals to young drinkers. For example, the company distributes caffeinated alcoholic drinks that public health groups say put young and underage consumers at risk by disguising the effects of intoxication.

Cindy McCain holds the title of company chairwoman and controls about 68% of the privately held company stock.

In a May interview in May, Cindy said she knew "everything that is going on" and communicated with her executive team every day.

If her husband is elected president and she retains her role at Hensley, she will set a precedent for outside corporate activity by a first lady.

The McCain campaign recently issued a statement about the issue, saying that "any decisions going forward will be made when John McCain wins the election and takes office, and NOT before."

Political analysts said they were astounded that McCain had not already addressed the issue.

"You can't run a beer company out of the White House," said Samuel L. Popkin, a political science professor at UC San Diego. "You can't run any company from the White House. McCain is leaving a live hand grenade on the table, a major embarrassment."

Public interest groups that lobby on alcohol issues say it will clearly be inappropriate for the McCain family to continue running or owning the company if McCain is elected.

Hensley has begun distributing controversial products known as flavored malt beverages, which critics call "alcopops" because of their similarity to soda pop. The beer industry, including Hensley, tried unsuccessfully to block liquor makers from getting into the market for the drinks.

Critics say the product is directed mainly at youth and can leave them wide awake without knowing they are intoxicated. Other flavored malt beverages contain sweet fruit flavors that block the taste of alcohol.

"These products are starter beverages, intended to introduce consumers to alcohol and alcohol brands," said George Hacker, director of the Alcohol Policies Project at the Center for Science in the Public Interest.

It is not clear exactly how Cindy McCain could avoid such controversy, but a range of public interest groups say she should separate herself and her husband from Hensley -- no doubt a difficult and emotional issue for any heir to a family business.

===============================================

KEEP DRUNK DRIVERS OFF OUR HIGHWAYS. VOTE FOR BARACK OBAMA!

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And You Will Believe. Every Word I Utter. And Call Me Kennedy-Esque. And You Will Put Faith In Me. You Will Know In Your Heart That I Will Right All These Wrongs. Poverty? War? Disease? Famine? I Will Banish These Into The Night! Corruption? Mismanagement? Pollution? You Will Forget The Meaning Of These Words. The Business Owners Will Give Up Their Tens Of Billions. Your Mortgage Will Pay Itself. The Militaries Will Destroy Their Weapons And Disperse Their Forces To Rebuild Their Own Nations. All Addiction Will End. Lying Will Cease. Prisons Will Close For Lack Of Crime. and as usual, hope and change (as opposed to action) + a nickel will still = $0.05. Good luck buying gas with it.

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Engaging in "aggressive partisanship" is no way to win an election. McCain is an aggressive partisan, hidebound and probably not quite sane. As a result, he can appeal only to the worst among us. The opposite of this is trying to appeal to everyone, an impossible task, but probably the better strategy in the chess game of getting elected. Anyway, as someone said (can't recall where I read this so I can't give proper credit), if elections really worked, they'd be illegal.

Remember, too, that people who want to be President of the US are just next door to being an alien species; their minds are dark chamber and labyrinths, and what moves within them cannot be understood in terms of common human values. They are not one of us. This must always be kept in mind.

They are not one of us.

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As someone who has a background in International Affairs, I have watched somewhat closely the speeches Barack has made over these last several months. I would love to say he has impressed me, he has not. As a black male, my best friend of over 30 years has informed me that I should give him my vote of support simply because he will make history.

I have heard one black male state that Barack is "just saying and doing what he has to do to get into office." He believes he will not be as right-winged as he displays himself to be. If only I felt that were true. However in either case, I would prefer someone who is truthful. Liers are a dime a dozen in our government.

We have a term in the black community of "house ni..." Fill in the blank if you wish. Obama will simply be the #1 House Ni..... He will change nothing. He is simply to the right what Colin Powell was to be but could not become as the black community was sickened by him! Obama has the "looks" and carries the empty soul that the right-wing loves so much hence his rise to the top in the media.

We live in a very dangerous fascist, militaristic and terrorist state. Some would take offense that summation. However if you were to ask the Afghani, Haitian, Iraqi, and Palestinian people, as well as, people in South and Central America who are not part of those who serve the elite and various power centers what they think about America, you would get the picture.

The black community has set horrified by the practices of this government during the Bush administration, except of course many of those black people who were the servants to these beasts. It is my belief that ex-members of the Nazi party, as well as, its principal founders, would be astonished at what Isra-HELL and the USA have gotten away with, year after YEAR, after year after YEAR, with no one bringing either of these criminal nations to task!

There is a reason why the Bush administration let Katrina happen. A poll was taken before Katrina of which I myself was polled, which had the results of over 95% of Black Americans feeling that this country was headed in the WRONG direction. The black community has always been very spiritual hence Reverend Wright's speech, of which Obama denounced.

Obama can give his soul to AIPAC, the Reagan right, the Christian right, the Fascist elite, the Corporations, the Neo-cons and all of the other demonic, sick and vile institutions and individuals he wishes.

However one thing is certain, I will NOT sell my soul to the DEVIL and vote for his new representative, just because his new SERVANT has black skin!

Terrific

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Listen in to "Taking Aim"'s recent broadcasts (WBAI NY) - www.takingaim.info -- very thorough analysis of Obama and Zionism, the linchpin for US imperialism.

I would say "cowardice" on Obama's part but it's not -- he's a true believer it seems.

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Yup, the CONgress still vote to borrow more money from China to continue installing a puppet regime for the corpoRATs.
How many "more" billions to fund the Iraq invasion/ take-over?

Obama;s not going to stop the powers-that -be.

PIrates have taken over the nation and the dumb ass Americans just don't hurt enough or they would stop it.

Obama was a shill of distraction.
Mean while no one pays any attention to the continuing melting of the greenland Ice cap or is informed as to the impact the "fires" are having on global warming, or
How many more people are dying by the blood hands of the American military Industrial regime directly or indirectly.

It's all business as usual.

Why in hell is Bush allowed to continue his rein of power?
Nation oil company would end the speculative market that is partly to blame for increased oil prices but.........that's never going to happen.

Man, I can't even get a tetnus shot with out paying a Dr. an obsessive fee to do such an in-and-out routeen proceedure. I'm talking about the simplest heath care. But do you really think this health care crisis is going to be resolved when Obama gets in?

The beat goes on. Screw America that mean all of the Americans that continue to accept, by complacentcy, the same old-same old. They can all go straight to hell. And the demo Repuks too.

This is behind the line action. We were captured at birth.
How come no one aspires to go to Tahiti any more?

Why does political campaigning take presidence over fixing problems NOW.
Why is the whole nation on hold until the next tyrany is installed?

What in hell is wrong with people. Just plan hopeless compliance.
SCeammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Arggggggggggg.

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First of all, regarding the issue of voting for a third party. Okay, I agree that Obama is less than perfect. But you have three options this November: vote for McCain, vote for Obama, or do something else. Anything in the third category counts the same as not voting, in the effect it has on electing a president -- unless we manage to organize a tremendous upsurge for (for instance) McKinney between now and November. I'd like that, but my somewhat unreliable crystal ball says it's unlikely. Some of my friends grumble bitterly that it wouldn't be so unlikely if we could just get everyone to vote their conscience. But heck, if could get everyone to do what is right, we wouldn't even need elections. The question is, how fast can you make good ideas spread? I think good ideas are spreading, but I'm doubtful that we can make them spread fast enough to elect McKinney by November.

There are some who say there is not a shred of difference between McCain and Obama -- that they are two puppets of the same duopoly, and it's all just a performance. If you really believe that, then you should be buying lots of guns right now, and this whole discussion about elections is pointless for you. But, personally, I still believe there is some difference between them.

For those who, like me, believe Obama is imperfect but presently our best option, there are still some questions of strategy. Certainly, after Obama gets elected, we have to continue building a movement against his imperfections; we have to prevent liberals from going back to sleep. But what is our best strategy between now and November? It could be something very different from our strategy before November. Do we help our cause, or hurt it, by talking loudly about our objections to Obama? I really don't know. The left-right scale is an oversimplification, but using it anyway for purposes of discussion, I see our situation this way: The right wing are dupes of the oligarchy; the country is mixed; Obama is somewhat left of center but has begun drifting toward the center to pick up votes. If we shout about how Obama isn't far enough to the left, will we succeed in moving the country to the left? Or will we only anger the right wing voters whose votes Obama still needs?

I do know that, even if his position isn't ideal, Obama is brilliant. I think his "more perfect union" speech was the most brilliant political speech I've heard in my entire life. It reminded me that sometimes politics doesn't mean just choosing between two existing, opposing ideas. Sometimes it means thinking up a third alternative -- not a compromise or a middle position, but a new insight, one that no one has thought of before, one that answers the problem even better. Obama has done a little of that, and I'm hoping he can do more, and help us to get the world out of the mess it's in. But we don't have to just rely on presidential candidates to do that. Anyone might do that, though it doesn't come often or easily.

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I was always a Kucinich backer but a few weeks ago I finally, grudgingly, began to try out being an Obama supporter, partly because of the viciousness abounding in the Clinton campaign. I order bumper stickers weeks ago... they never came, and perhaps that's a good omen. After this SERIOUS FISA vote - do you people REALIZE what just happened, for chrissakes?? Really? And then handing the shrub more $$ for the war... THAT'S SUPPORTING THE WAR.

I'm writing in Kucinich because honestly it does not matter who wins, Obama or McLame. And McLame has plans to steal it anyway, the fix is in, as another commenter said. I too read the article where McLame "slipped" and admitted that 48 hours before election time the wheels will be set in motion. The man is so stupid he can't keep his trap shut even about stealing the election (again).

Either rise up or accept the hell that this country is slipping into.

My guess is lazy, fat, illiterate Americans will do nothing. Most of them don't even know their Constitutional rights have been erased with FISA and habeas corpus. So, there you have it. As a nation, we get the gov't we deserve.

Unfortunately, the rest of us individuals have to suffer for it.

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isn't it clear that a two party system, which nominates candidates that are propped up by the same wealthy corporations and old boy connections won't help america? if "progressives" really want progress and not "change" then go for nader. he has the integrity on the issues. vote nader.

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As July 4 approaches I am angry about the deep betrayal of our country. Our forefathers gave their lives for this country and a new way of governance with our Constitution and our Bill of Rights. I believe in our Constitution and our Bill of Rights. The FISA legislation provided one means to change bad legislation and hold the corporate telecoms accountable for selling our private information to the government without warrants. There seems to be much support among many people in the public to kill that legislation. So what is one of the first acts of our newly annointed Democrat candidate for president? He supports the compromise legislation drafted by our equally two-faced, corporately-controlled, and Democrat-led Congress. I see these attacks on our Constitution as the most important issues of our time. We have already lost and continue to lose everything that is good and right about our country through the Patriot Act and FISA. Many of you are doing a good job of rationalizing the fact that you supported Obama and believed his rhetoric and refuse to accept this deep betrayal.We also helped to get the Democrat controlled Congress in place and they have continued to betray us on the war and now on FISA. Betrayal heaped upon betrayal.

The other issue that is so important is public financing of political campaigns. We will never get a representative government of the people with the corporations in control of the campaign money and the candidates. They select the candidates and we get to choose the least offensive to us. We give them obscene amounts of money to help them win elections and look at where that has gotten us. We can't continue to accept this state of governance. We have proven that we have some power through the Internet and through alternative media. We can get alternative views and information out to much of the public. We should come down on Obama and the Democrats in Congress with the full force of our displeasure at their betrayals. The problem with accepting his and their betrayals now is that it paves the way for more and more betrayals. We have to hold these people accountable. If you believe that your vote really counts then we can't give up our power before the general election and then expect the Congress and President to discontinue their anti Constitutional activities. We would have to wait four more years to vote against them if they continue to betray us. Let them know that you will not support their campaigns with your resources, your time and your influence unless they prove that they support our Constitution and are worthy of our support. We are the people and they are our servants in public governance.

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I have backed Barack since day one and still believe he is far better than the alternatives.
But can anyone possibly explain we he and his close in advisors have opted for almost Bush liek absurd positions? It is not only - what some pundit has called a "belly crawl" to the AIPAC - it is many things. One of the most flagrant has been his pandering to the famous CANF - Cuban dictator Batista lovers. The United Nations General Assembly voted recently - I believe for the 13th time - for the end of the ridiculous USA embargo (blockade) of Cuba. Three great countries supported the USA positions. Israel, Palau and the Marshall Islands. 184 countries including about all of the so called USA puppets voted against the USA. What does Obama state: Back Bush's embargo. The non-USA pundits can't figure this one out and it certainly has caused utter dismay in many of the world's capitals.

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An easy way to check whether the United States has slipped into fascism is to view this checklist. I post it here to remind people that yes, it can, and HAS happened here: Lawrence Britt's 14 points of fascism.

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not happy or even slightly placated by any candidate from the start of the primaries to now... why not make the white house look like it should, plastered with corporate sponsorships and logos... that would be honesty, but most Americans couldn't handle letting go of the fake facade...

we do not matter, all we are supposed to do is shut up and spend... period...

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The website if FULL of the evidence that Obama wasn't quite the progressive the media has cracked him up to be. All the while we had Kucinich who actually represented a true progressive voice, and still does, and he was ignored, vilified, and laughed at.

The ONE thing that will keep Obama in check as president now is to IMPEACH Bush and Cheney. Support Wexler, support Kucinich, and support the impeachment movement. Otherwise Obama will have ALL Bush's power when he takes office - not only that history shows that a president becomes even more right wing after taking office. Think Obama's latest comments rather on the 'righty' side now? Just wait.

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I'm 35, and the last time that I worked steadily, was when I was 27 years old. I had worked steadily ever since I was 19 years old
(Before that, I was in school).

Let's see now--who was President when I was 19?
Why, it was none other than Alternet (and Huffpo's) hated President Bill Clinton!

And, what happened when I was 27 to kick me into the ranks of the unemployed? Why, it was none other than Alternet (and Huffpo's) hated President George W. Bush!

And, now that I'm 35, I had been looking forward to yet another Clinton Presidency--and what happened? Alternet, Huffpo, and the rest of the MSM, lowered the boom on Hillary Clinton in favor of--who?

OBAMA! Yes--and now, Alternet and HuffPo is crying and weeping bitterly--Oh Boo Hoo!!!Why? Because they just now noticed, what the rest of most of us Clintonistas already knew--that Obama was NOT our candidate--not because "we're prejudiced" (we're not) but because, not being blind, we noticed that he, Obama, really didn't have our best interests at heart the way that we knew Hillary Clinton did!

SHOCKING!!!

So now the destruction of the Demoratic Party has well and truly begun--mostly thanks to Huffpo, AlterNet, and the rest of the misogynistic, spoiled-brat MSM, who denigrated, castigated, and fulminated against Hillary Clinton's candidacy, night and day--thus playing right into the hands of the bought-and-paid-for Democratic Delegates to deny Hillary Clinton her shot at running for the US Presidency and delivering us yet another fabulous, job-filled Presidency topped with a billion-dollar surplus, just like her husband Bill did.

THAT was "Change we could believe in"--which was alas, (too late for us to have realized it in time), too great a threat to the present, totally corrupt Democratic leadership.

And now?

Oh Boo Hoo! Bad Old OBAMA, ISN'T DOING WHAT HE TOLD US THAT HE WOULD DO! HE'S NOT BRINGING "CHANGE THAT WE CAN BELIEVE IN!" HE'S BRINGING A WHOLE LOT OF OTHER CHANGE, THOUGH, THAT WE DON'T WANT TO BELIEVE IN! WHAT A SURPRISE!

My hope now is that Hillary Clinton stays well clear of these Democratic pigs. Message to Bill Clinton--quit sulking. You didn't want your wife to preside over the Democrats' rotting corpse, and get obstructed at every turn, did you? What I think Hillary should do, is to come over and join the vibrant, growing Independent Party. That's where all her fans and voters are--hoping that she'll become part of this new movement. If she does--

If Hillary joins the Independent Party, she can look for a win in '12. After this election, I predict that there won't be enough Democrats left to put into a shoebox. All us Indys--and there's a whole lot of us, as well as disaffected Democrats-- are looking forward to crossing party lines this November, and voting these fake, pretend Democrats out--and the Independent Party, to take their place.

In the meantime, HuffPo--keep on crying as Obama veers more and more right: that's exactly why he was foisted upon this country, instead of Hillary Clinton. You're a gang of losers and hypocrites--and I got to tell you, your weeping and wailing has only just started.

For which, you can thank your precious OBAMA.

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Obama is a candidate for political office. He just can't be everything you want him to be. Bill Clinton tried and look how he let progressives down in the first month of office, long before the Lewinsky scandall. Hillary is stilll manipulating for a power position, and she'll get something, you bet. But, straight up, if you want change, you have got to go out into the streets with signs and banners and demand it. How can you expect politicians to listen when you do nothing. Don't take it personal, it's a generic you, not the real you, after all, I don't even know you. When Gore had his victory removed by the Supreme court and a legally democratically elected black judge in Dade County overturned, nobody went to the street, and everybody went to work, what they call business as usual, but we all did the business as usual, and I think the price we paid for that was four years of George Bush, or has it been eight, war included, economy nearly destroyed unless you are in the over 80,000income bracket, a random number, oil prices to the sky, no new fuel efficient cars, and car makers jumping, cause Bush has screwed everyone equally.
That's the rant. Make of it what you will, but if you look to South Korea, you will see a startling difference. No they don't want your crazy cow, just starbucks and Macdonolds and levis and nike and cheese please, but look to see the thousands that spent a month in the streeet to force change upon two countries at once, yes two, US beef industry has had to slow down and rethink, and bush relation with Lee is not gone as smooth as both thought when clowning around in the golf cart at camp David, theday after lee rang the stock market bell, a sign to investors that the green light means GO GO GO, but slow down, ten thousand angry Koreans can't all be that crazy. Where were you when Bush stole the election?
Oh, this is about OBAMA. OK Let's vote for the man and first time somebody fucks up, get to the streets in a hurry and let your voices be heard, cause you better believe the right wing will be out in full force if this guy wins. If obama wins, Big O, sorry, his presidency will rally the troops on the right wing, christian conservative, neocon, neosuedo, anti-intellectual, pro Israeli dogma, religion in place of science textbooks crowd. The only way to take back this country is to elect someone, stand with them, and against them if necesary. stop complaining. Mr Right doesn't live here in America. Mr. Almost right does though, and he's trying to get some votes to win this election. He doesn't dress or talk like Hitler, he doesn't play golf with Rummy, he's a wild card that went to a church that preaches liberation theology and reaches out to the hardcore. He's not a HOward Hughes, and he's not being bankrolled by Cheny or Bechtel... Let's just getreal and VOTE FOR BARAK OBAMA,. thanks, I will not edit this rant.

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I have been expecting this. The Republican owned media pushed Obama hard core. They knew if McCain wins, they win. If Obama wins, they win. The only way the people would have won is if Hillary would have won the nomination. She is the only true Democrat. This is why they pushed so hard to take her down. The Obama supporters fell for it hook, line and sinker. Now we are in trouble. We are in for more of the same (or worse) no matter which one wins. Do you suppose Americans will ever learn to research a candidate before electing him?

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I don't feel abandoned at all. This is just media hype and another waste of twenty-five minutes of my life. It's Obama to the Convention, then we decide, not the media. Not abandoned, and as a good pirate knows, stay with the treasure, even as the ship sinks, because you never know, you might just make it home after all.

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I think that it is naive for those who are dismayed by Barack's move to the center. There is no pure "politician". They are all opportunists and I accept that. But, most important, what will they do once in power?

If a person wants to vote for McCain because Obama is not a pure enough "progressive" lets see what that brings. . .

Reality is not pretty, but the Obama reality is as pretty as it will get for now. . .

Carlos

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This may be a bit off thread but HUFFINGTON POST. which is a MSM site which AlterNet & other progressive sites, is persisting in using the same headline week after week above a weekly blog written by somebody named De Mille(?) & a young Kennedy, which gives the skinny on things the traditional MSM hasn't covered. The headline is misleading for HP is a web based element of the MSM. Comments on Kennedy's site that HP is MSM might induce HP to correctly label this site. If HP posts it, it's part on the MSM.

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Obama was never a liberal or progressive or populist candidate as those of us who supported John Edwards were all aware..

Edwards was our best hope for Real Change but the Democrats blew it, so now we're stuck with this guy and can only vote against the Republicans and McCain where ever we can in every sector of this coming election..

Alexander Cockburn wrote a great article on this even before Obama started his slide to conformity and showed he's not about change but the Status Quo..

Maybe we should start a movement to draft Edwards at the Convention to save America..

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of political events. Perhaps now people will understand that "change we can believe in" had more to do with changing out the head of the democratic party than with anything more concrete. I know, I know: this is just a political tactic, necessary to shore up support in weak sectors of the electorate, and true supporters will need to forgive this in order to ensure that the good guys win. SOS SOS SOS SOS. The American political system needs to :

1) abandon the so-called two-party system. It's too easy for big business to buy it all up.

2) speed up the election process. It shouldn't take that long to find an intelligent, qualified candidate. The endless process here in the USA does not serve the electorate and devalues the vote itself. Of course the media wouldn't have it this way, as then real news might only be left which won't help ratings, and big business wouldn't have enough time to do what's needed to decide the election for us.

I mean, who ya' gonna vote for if Obama goes dead center? McCain? Nader? And if his policies follow dead to the center also, well it was better than McCain would have been, right? So be a nice little sheep and count your blessings instead of demanding that your government actually work for you, OK?

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...when our candidates leave us hanging.

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There's a paradox here, of course. On the one hand, we really do want a President who transcends partisanship, who brings disparate interests together, who synthesizes creative solutions that all of us can live with, and who governs on a pragmatic and nonideological basis.

On the other hand, we really do want a President who will represent *our* interests exclusively, and who will first disempower and then ruthlessly crush those mean and nasty people in the opposition, under whom we have suffered for so long.

So when I remember my supposed commitment to diversity and inclusiveness, I realize that I can't get all that I want - but if I know that President Obama will have a place at the table for progressives, and take us and our concerns seriously, then I think I'll be able to live with it.

As a Green Party member, I'll probably vote for the Green Party candidate anyway (if I don't write in Stephen Colbert ;*) -- we Greens have to be able to show that we have some degreee of support if we want to be listened to -- but I will celebrate President Obama'ss inauguration anyway.

(By the way, has anyone else noticed that Inauguration Day will be the day after MLK Day?)

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Americans are deluded to believe that the Constitution still applies in today's complex society. It is simply an old scroll, written at a time when four-fifths of our population could say democracy without tongue in cheek or blushing. Democracy is now a word used to convert the despair of poor Americans to the hope that they will actually receive a slice of pie to share as promised to them every four years. Obama and McCain are the wings of the Vulture, one is the right wing and the other the left, take your pick, and both are necessary for the bird to remain in flight. The United States has gone far beyond the capitalism of social justice to embrace the system of rob the poor to help the rich and our creed now allows that any billionaire can be head of State. So what is all the fuss over two guys who are pledged to entertain us with their rhetoric for a few months until one gets to sit in the Oval Office and the other offers to help him get back to screwing the people. When will Americans stop believing in their own propaganda telling us we are the greatest nationon earth while four-fifths of our population are one paychek away from being homeless. Voting for either of those guys is a vote against yourself. Follow your leaders on election day and it may surprise you to find that a stop at the Polling Booth is not on their agenda. They know the system!

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Flat out stating you will not vote for Obama and following up on it with action in the voting booth is the only way to hold him accountable and it is the right thing to do.

Enough with this lesser of 2 evils bullshit!

Both liberals and conservatives have an overwhelming tendency to overlook the faults in their team's candidates while railing against those very same faults in the other team's candidates.

Obama's words may be very different from McCain's but if they vote the same way what the hell is the difference??!!

If Obama is going to cause the ship U.S.S United States to sink slowly while McCain is going to cause the ship to sink quickly, either way it is sinking.

You only have one vote, vote for someone whose voting record actually reflects your beliefs.

Oh yeah, they got destroyed in the primaries...

So many people believed all we needed in a candidate was platitudes of hope and change, few seriously looked at voting records.

"Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain't going to do any good; you're just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it's not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here... like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There's a nice campaign slogan for somebody: 'The Public Sucks. Fuck Hope." - George Carlin

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To me, it's like going into a restaurant and being forced to choose between the puke platter and the shi-t sandwich.

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The two-party system is the inevitable, if not only desirable, outcome of our pluralist electoral system. This is for material and not ideological reasons. When each candidate only gets one vote from each voter, there is no possibility for a third-party. There are two possible outcomes, one tacitly and one overtly undemocratic. Either you have two-parties and spoilers (be that Democrat vs. Republicans with, say, Greens on the side OR Greens vs. Republicans with Democrats on the side, or some other combination), or else the more overtly undemocratic scenario where the elected "winner" is someone with less than the popular vote (happened in 15 presidential elections so far!).

In other words, the material fact of our electoral process is the real limit to our political choices. Ideology has nothing to do with this process per se, so it's not quite so accurate to say the process is "rigged." It's more accurate and politically potent to say the system is antiquated, and that serious reform is all that is going to open a pathway out of the two-party oligarchy.

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I've voted for McCarthy, McGovern, Kennedy & Jackson. None of them got elected. We got Reagan Bush & Nixon
If Al Gore had won we would not be in Iraq Life isn't perfect. I'll take what I can get

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Oh, now Obama goes from being the most liberal Senator to moving rapidly to the right based on two issues?

Come on folks!

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What nonsense and drivel.

Obama did not capitulate on FISA he made a strategic decision that I agree with, and if this were in 2007 it would be different, but it is not. IT is a little over 4 months from the campaign. If Obama had taken time to filibuster the Bill and vote against it, it still would have passed. The Republicans could have kept him on the floor of the senate in a filibuster until November. Grow up folks.

THe Supreme Court is the law of the land, is now always has been, what does Obama have to do with any of that. Let's see, "Obama is weak on perverts who rape children." That is really going to help Democrats every where when the republicans run that for two weeks prior to the election.

As far as guns, he has been a guns right person. And again it is the Supreme Court's decision not his.

So you are willing to set by and let McCain and the Republicans win because you feelings are hurt and you just can't figure out politics in the real world.

There is nothing Progressive about that.

I am against the Death Penalty, period. I have never fired a gun and I am 61, and I certianly am for sensible protection of individual liberties, but If Obama had voted the way you want and McCain wins, this country is in real trouble. The NeoCons are filtering into McCains campaign and if he wins they will be back on track to finishing what they started.

So go ahead, I will be dead in 20 or so years, it is your children you are dooming because smart political strategy offends your sensibilities.

Cutting off your nose to spite your face.

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I think we'll see several impacts from Obama's centrist, general election campaign strategy.

His campaign will be less energetic and resemble Clinton's initial effort and the McCain campaign. The crowds at his events will decrease or plateau in size and energy. His fundraising base will still include small donors but it won't grow appreciably. He will increase his contributions from large donors through bundlers. Both the bundlers and their networks will re-assess him as a "safe" candidate.

The Obama campaign will trade-off the activist feel of the primary for what they will see as the path to a general election win.

It is a disappointing reality for his activist supporters and, while it may not alter our support for him against McCain, I don't agree that we will be able to do everything in our power to elect him because the requisite phone calls, door knocks and conversations would be insincere, less enthusiastic and less effective.

Even though the campaign is hiring organizers in fifty states, they are going to find a less enthusiastic activist base to mobilize. The Obama campaign, rather, will rely on a more conventional campaign where disgruntled voters who aren't about to attend rallies will cast their vote for a safe and centrist Obama based on paid ads, a strong paid field operation and free media.

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that thief Nader stole my vote again!

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True, real power is with the corporations. True: misinformed voters do not make a democracy.
But it is also true that something is better than nothing. Leaving Iraq in five years is better than never. Banning some torture is better than it being totally acceptable. And a charismatic leader who holds some of my views is better than a dumb leader who believes that mass murder and torture are "doing god's work"

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Progressives seem to be known by the politicos as waffly take-what-you-can-get perennial losers. No wonder their vote is disrespected by the democrats.

Until you refuse to do anything but stick up for your beliefs, and spread them among the ignorant, you'll always be left with a pitiful representative who tells you what you want to hear, and then does what he pleases.

Your beliefs might not be as absolute as the religious right, but your resolve should be.

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I'm not looking for a flame war. I'm just genuinely curious what your limits are. What, Obama supporters, would Obama have to do to make you stop supporting him? Will you vote for him no matter what? Or as long as he's at least epsilon better than McCain?

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I am a lifelong Democrat and I never cease to marvel at the folks who always bemoan the fact that the Democratic candidates are never "progressive" enough for them. Let's be realistic folks...anyone who fits their precise qualifications for a presidential candidate doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of being elected. So they effectively flush their vote down the toilet by either voting for Nader or not voting at all. We have all learned from experience how beneficial that was to all of us after the exciting election in 2000. When you calculate the number of diverted progressive votes along with the malfeasance that was rampant in Florida then one can see where those misplaced Nader votes could have made a great difference in the course this country took over the last 8 years.

It's great to be idealistic as I once was but let's be realistic for a moment. Hardcore progressives are greatly outnumbered. The vast majority of America is comprised of ordinary working folks who only care about a paycheck and taking care of their families. The FISA bill doesn't mean a thing to most of them, they would personally execute any SOB that raped their daughter and all they want is someone who they feel can hopefully make their lives a little better and give them some hope for their children's future.
That sure ain't John McCain. And it sure ain't Ralph Nader because he can't win.

Please use a little common sense and give Obama a chance to at least get into office and then he can go back to his roots as "most liberal senator". He's got to play to the middle in order to stand any kind of chance at all to be
elected. I realize I'm most likely wasting my breath but but I hope to God that this country doesn't "idealize" itself into another Republican administration. Have you ever heard the expression "cutting off one's nose to spite their face"?

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A little late in posting this, but as a very Progressive Democrat there are times when I hear Barack say something that goes against by beliefs I cringe. Then I remember reading " Dreams of my Father" and " Audacity of Hope" and I remind myself that Barack Obama has a heart that remembers and knows what is right. Then I relax and remember that he has to play to the uninformed, the misinformed, those that think he is unamerican, those that don't know anything about him at all.
He is not wholeheartedly a true Progressive, but for now is the best hope of reclaiming America again. We will have to fight him too on issues that are important to all Americans, but that will be easier than having another Republican goon in the White House.
Remember this my fellow Progressives; the work will not be over once Barack wins. It will just be starting.

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Don't worry. Sen. Obama is leftist to the core. He must move right and speak right and act right to pick up necessary votes. After the election everything will be okay.

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It seems Obama learned well from the Clintons and Clintonites. With the AIPAC speech and other such position-taking, it seems that this is but a slight variation and refinement of the old Politics of Triangulation that Clinton was so deft in using among blocs and groups (i.e.: women, latinos, blacks, gays, workers, etc.) in his own day.

If it's too strong on the Left, take a Right to dampen and neutralize it; if it's too strong on the Right, take a Left to dampen and neutralize it. Zoom in to the Middle and bring home a Touchdown that laid the ground-work and the foundations for these happy and oh so prosperous times we all are enjoying these days.

Guess what? With the Right in the quandary they find themselves in at these moments, who might one think Obama is going to want to dampen and neutralize this time around?

And what does this Middle have to offer at the moment? More of the same, the status quo, perhaps a few cosmetic changes and 'concessions' (read: more friendly and 'civil' acknowledgment while the screwing continues unabated) and maybe a couple of 'sacrificial goats' to symbolize the thoroughly vacuous intent to 'clean up the ways of Washington and running of the Governnemt.

The Emperor's got himself a new outfit!

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This article whines along in the pathetic way progressives generally do. They all want their boy to be in power and then , "whoa, look out, you'll see real change then'!. Happens every election. Now all the progressives, which some say number as much as 20% of the electorate think change is just around the corner. What change did Clinton bring ? Take a look at what he accomplished. Progressive ? Does anyone actually believe Obama will be progressive ? What difference does it make when the parties are basicly serving the same interest groups equally. If you want to change Obama and send shivers thru his camp then strongly endorse a real progressive and watch his handlers crunch the numbers. He will tack back toward the left for one reason: He will lose if he doesn't because that alternate progressive, if charasmatic would hand the White House back to the GOP. The Dems are tacking right because they smell a victory. It will only get worse. Stop supporting these two parties. They are 2 factions of the same thing so back a real progressive and stop holding your nose.

Here's a relevant hypothetical question for Mr.I have faith in the system: Had you the opportunity and had LBJ gone for a 2nd term would you have voted for him rather than let Nixon take it ? Judging by what you just wrote I believe you would have. History, sadly will repeat itself because progressives just dont get it.

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Progressives need to remain 100% motivated to do everything they can to elect Obama. It is only the first task toward creating the grass roots coalition that will be capable of generating real change. It never really mattered who the Democrat candidate was or what he/she says or does. What matters is getting the Republicans out. The organization of a true grass roots political movement is far more feasible without the fascist elements of the Republicans being in a position to destroy it. Once this obstacle is removed the real work will begin. Some may have become disillusioned because they thought Obama represented a short cut to "change". There is no short cut. So lets get back to work and get this guy elected.

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John McCain has a 36% approval rating that appears to drop with every dumbness he promotes. Why? He pandered to the cave dwellers to his right.
These hawks, racists and paid media brokers are not part of the solution.
If Obama suggests how we can improve the economy and other vital issues, he will harvest the votes of those right wingers who retain their sanity.

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"No party stands for my bedrock principles all the time, principles like the rule of law, the balance of powers, the Constitution, civil liberties, opportunity for all, security through freedom, reduced corporate power, and responsible governance." Is this a progressive way to govern? It sounds conservative to me - conserving the concepts upon which our government founded way back when. Except the "opportunity for all" the rest is not considered "progressive". It seems the definition of "conservative", "liberal", "left, "middle" and "right" are truly blurry!

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Thanks for bringing a cool breeze of sanity in here!

If you've got strong stomachs and read through the comments, you'll see it's been in short supply.

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This just in!

Election 2008

freepforums

Headings: Issues / Election 2008

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Yes, they've used their time in congress to show they're truly courageous thats why they both voted for the war when it was politically expedient and railed against it when popular opinion went that way. As far as I can see Obama really hasn't made a policy switch even though he's got some disagreeable positions. anyone saying edwards or clinton would somehow be more honorable or progressively minded right now is out of his or her fucking mind.

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Barack is a trained community organizer with a lot of the Alinsky mindset in that training and practical street-level experience. Alinsky was never a favorite of the ideological left because he was, as are most successful organizers, a pragmatist. Community organizations thrive not on lost causes but on victories. Victory is achieved by the development of a force of popular support which can match up against the power structure being confronted. Labor organizers have for years told the Left to drop issues like gun control if they wanted to get their members into the tent. This struggle has gone on for decades inside the Left.

I trust that Obama knows what issues matter and what issues ultimately do not with the presidency. Our task is to keep finding ways to build a progressive coalition at the grass-roots that elects people to Congress and state houses that will set the direction and put pressure on the system - including the president.

But everyone should go back to their Alinsky - Rules for Radicals would be a good start - to understand what the game is from the Obama perspective and relax a little bit.

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I'll probably be voting for the Libertarian candidate, Bob Barr, mainly because he will be on the ballot in my state (New Mexico). Right now, he's on the ballot in 30 states. I would consider the Green Party if they get on the ballot, though as yet we still don't know who the Green Party candidate will be (Cynthia McKinny seems to be ahead).

You can find out if the Libertarian Party will be on the ballot in your state by looking here:

http://www.lp.org/ballot-access

I don't think there would be much point in doing a write-in vote, since my understanding is that most states send write-in votes straight to the trash can (something they don't tell you).

I do realize that both the Libertarians and Greens have their flaws. It's a protest vote for me - much better than not voting, since not voting won't show up anywhere in the official statistics of this election.

I don't expect a third party candidate to win, but it can have some impact, as did Ross Perot when he ran for president in 1992 and got 19% of the vote. He would have gotten more if he hadn't suddenly quit the race in July, and then changed his mind again in October and started campaigning. At one point in the campaign, he actually led in the polls. Details of all that here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Perot

I'm not expecting a major electoral upset, but I'll do whatever I can to contribute to one. The status quo is totally unacceptable to me.

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Everyone has a vague notion of what is right, left and center, but has it ever occured to you that these definitions are primarily contrivances to make some center position look like a compromise, when really it is no such thing?

Take a look at Nader's positions on the issues. If you believe polls have any validity, you would see that his positions are preferred by the vast majority of citizens.

And I have yet to see a single Nader hater who felt he was entitled to my vote argue against Nader on a single issue - not one single issue! Ad hominem attacks are the best they can come up with.

The democratic party seems fairly adept at producing this waffly over-handled candidates who are about as solid as a bowl of oatmeal. That's why they lose elections - they want to coast in on a breeze of entitlement, of not being as bad as the republicans. If they lose this next one, they might as well pack up and go home, or hand the party over to someone with a spine like Russ Feingold.

Impeachment off the table? What the hell was that?

FISA free pass, are you effen kidding me?

Letting republicans rule from a minotiry position is not a pragmatic compromise, it's weenie politics.

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Even enlightened saints have succumbed and fallen because of the seduction of ADORATION. Do we think that B Obama or any other politician is immune? Now add power, greed, religion, etc. and you have a potent cocktail that few have ever resisted.

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The only difference between the two is how fast they drop to their knees when big corporations walk into the room.

Both of them are corporate whores.

Nothing will change because there is very little substantive between our choices and there hasn't been for ages. You would need a wedge and a sledge hammer to even see daylight between the positions of the DemoRepubliCratiCans.

Americans will have the government they deserve, be it Reagan, Clinton, Bush or whoever gets the corporate nod next time.

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WAKE UP PEOPLE DOT BE SO NAIVE OBAMA IS A POLITICIAN . IF YOU BUY ALL HIS OR MC CAINS TALK YOU HAVE NOT LEARNED ANYTHING.
WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN , IN A CAVE./?

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Months ago, Paul Krugman described Obama's approach as "cautious and orthodox."

Too much of the left forgot that what is needed is change we can count on, not change we can [merely] believe in.

Where's Pigasus when we need him?!?

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Don't wait til/if Obama becomes president to register your anger with his capitulations on FISA, public financing, death penalty, Palestine (Iraq war funding, Patriot Act reauthorization--the pattern goes way back, I'm afraid)--etc. What makes you think he would listen then? Now that he has refused public financing and claims he plans to fund his 'people's campaign' from small contributors like you and me, why not withhold our money? Let's start with an easy one: demand that Obama show leadership on FISA and oppose the bill and retroactive immunity for the telecoms that let the govt. spy on us. And if he doesn't, let your closed wallet do the talking. He may wish he'd opted for public financing after all. So sad to see him take progressives and netroots activists for granted so soon. Have we created a monster?

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I think I understand: hands off Obama as he goes right, while the awful Congressional Democrats who do the exact same thing must be defeated. Cool.

"And in the meantime, I will also work to rid Congress of conservative, Blue and Bush Dog Democrats, and build up long-term progressive infrastructure, building a progressive Congress to pressure President Obama."

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It seems Obama ran out of steam after defeating Hillary, like he used up all his energy and creativity doing that. He's got nothing left now, it seems. He expressed admiration (instead of contempt) for Reagan, now he is facing a Republican, someone he appears to like more than Hillary, and he's drawing a blank. It's the same old story, and I don't really see why I should support him. I think if enough people don't support him - if enough people AGAIN don't support the Democratic nominee (say 10% of us), then finally the message will have gotten through that without us, you will not win. Yes, we will be spoilers....or not?

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There is a lot of justifiable anger out there..but there are things that progressive's can do.Instead of wishing you had a gun so you could stare down it's barrel,you could always check out the participatory democracy campaign ,of Put The No Back In November..which is at http://www.care2.com/news/member/154683573/779571 or www://www.Care2.Com/C2C/group/NOvember

Its worth a look if your a disappointed conservative,any sort of beleiver in the US constitution,or a libertarian too.Even non-US citizen's are involved..the whole world is affected by the scandals,corruption and corporate anti-democratic shore-up in the US today.
Its not like me,to come on here and promote a site,but there is just such a lot of defeatism and potential apathy amongst radicals on here.Better to have a go and fail,than never to have had a go..or something like that.

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Barack Obama is a brilliant politician. In the best scenario for liberals, his overt strategy could be to be a moving target which will not allow the right to pin him down too hard on the issues, so they cannot swift boat him on taxes, or being too anti-market, etc.

My hope is that his actions are intentional-an astute pandering that will evaporate upon his being elected (hopefully)...and at that time he will not have to be as beholden to the center and can mostly proceed with the agenda that we had originally hoped for as progressives.

At this point we need some leftist extremism ourselves to counteract what is the most regressive government in history - one that has done more damage to the American Dream than could ever have been imagined. And only a very strong progressive agenda can fix this.

From what I can tell, Americans are finally seeing that the emperor (extreme conservatism) has no clothes...and this time, perhaps no amount of right wing swiftboating can overcome the effects of empty wallets, overpaid CEOs looting the economy, and the damage that concentration on enriching only the top has done.

On the other hand, one cannot be too careful as there are still many swiftboat moments to come. Therefore I think Obama's moving target strategy is smart and enables him to be like a stealth...uncatchable to some degree...no backing into a corner for now. We will see how this plays out and whether it is a more serious center-right bent if he is elected. But for now, I am hopeful and thinking: benefit of the doubt.

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Senator Obama can think for himself (I wish that more of our political leaders were capable of that). He should be more centrist than anything else. That is more representative of our country (or should be) than being on the far end of either side. As for progressives and Net-Rooters to think that he is letting them down in some way shows an extreme political naivety, or worse. He is clearly the best Presidential candidate to have come along in many years. Let’s work to get him elected. I don’t think very many of us want McCain, and the Republican Party, in control. That would be even more disastrous than the last eight years. Enough is enough.

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crocodile tear gas
swampy wet eyeball reddens
where's the promised change?

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It KILLS me that people EVER thought of Obama as anything BUT PRO-CORPORATE establishment! Desperate Dems have willfully deluded themselves into thinking he was some sort of progressive messiah. LOL! He ain't no MLK, folks - he's as "white" as they come, and corporate to the core, and even wants to continue our bellicose entanglements abroad!

AlterNet, WHEN will you come to your senses and fulfill your progressive DUTY to vociferously endorse people like Ralph Nader? You dropped the ball with Kucinich and now you're being light on Obama's numerous transgressions (ooooooh, look, they're doing one little measly article "criticizing" Obama!), ignoring TRUE progressives like Nader et al.

You are PART of the problem, AlterNet! Until you give in-depth coverage to and consideration of anti-establishment leaders, those who genuinely want to lead America out of this stinking morass of hegemony and rigid rich versus poor hierarchy, I will remain cynically DUBIOUS of your true intentions.

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That I mentioned Obama's religious leanings and tendency toward bible-thumping, I now feel I've been truly vindicated:

Obama to overhaul, expand faith based programs

Feeling taken in, yet?

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A recent Alternet article asks "Are Americans stupid?" Obama is trying to win the election and it would be stupid indeed for progressives to teach him a lesson by denying him their vote. How "leftish" he is may be of secondary importance anyway as rightists and "centrists" will continue to dominate regardless of election results.

(Irreversible Bush mistakes are likely to adversely impact America's foreign and economic positions for several years, so I expect the next President to serve only four years regardless of his program.)

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Paleez. In 2007, Obama responded to a reporter's question about health care by replying with a line that is the insurance industry's classic spin: people are sick because they're fat. I knew then that he was already in Big Business' pocket. Didn't anybody else notice? Hellooo.

Democratic voters are like abused wives: they keep coming back for more under the delusion that he won't hit them again. Then they have the gall to whine when he beats the crap out of them yet again.

Stop going back to the party that keeps acting against the interests of the American people. Pick a candidate who has a more than 30-year track record of unwavering commitment to working for the people and not the corporations. Vote Ralph Nader.

Or at least have the decency not to whine when your Democratic president beats the crap out of you again. It's really a bore.

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The soundtrack album is on the way for the Barack Obama 2008 candidacy, and we need your help to get it distributed...

If you'd like to contribute to Obama's candidacy (while directly benefitting Katrina survivors) and have already given more than campaign laws allow ($2300), or are simply a believer in the power of song to augment his message, please consider donating to the album co-produced by Matt Cameron of Pearl Jam and the Bergevin Brothers, featuring the Total Experience Gospel Choir and other Seattle artists. The album is called "Seven Songs for America" and will contain the internet hit "Fired Up Ready to Go" (one of Barack Obama's six Youtube Favorites) and other 2008 Obama-campaign-centric songs. You can contribute by visiting www.bergevinbrothersmusic.com, and click on the "Donate" button. The energy of the 2008 campaign is augmented and captured in this album, to be released this Fall! Spread the word.

The Bergevin Brothers

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Just another example of Obama's say and do anything tactics to get a vote. I do like the way his OWN party secretly drums up discord and statements to keep Obama looking like the victim against the bad old Republicans. The fact is they use counter tactics to keep poor little Obama in the light. It's his own party who makes all the crap statement about him so he can put on his little halo and plead his poor little me case about old politics...the fact is, he is old politics with a new coat of paint...He is duping the people and they feel so desperate they would buy a dead fish and think it's a pet dog...

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I've been a bleeding Heart Lefty all my life and I am disgusted by the placating of the Right by those who claim membership to the left. Huffington is nothing more than a Rovian Covert Operative.
As a supporter of Kucinich in the Prims, I knew the BS 'reverse Psycology' would start doing their Mind fuck as soon as Obama won the Nomination. 'He's too Liberal' would cry the Direct Operatives and the camoflagued brigade would begin their 'He's too conservative' crap.
Anyone who followed the Prims knew Obama was not a total Lefty, nor a 'Reagan Democrat' like Clinton (obviously a well indoctrinated Plant- Card Carrrying Neo CON). IN fact I have begun to wonder exactly which side such Websites as this owe their alliegence too. the tactics is to cause doubt and fear on both sides while sneaking up the middle with Mac. Make Right able to justify their Racism and make the Left think he's Lying. 'Will not get out as Recklessly as we got in' he stated that throughout the Primaries.
Beware so called Left media- many of US see your Red Slip showing!

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Please, when you are done reading all of the great comments and articles on AlterNet (Truth be told, if you've made it this far down the column you're more than likely done) Have a look at what I wrote on this very subject on my blog. Here's a link:

"Buyer's Remorse?

All the best,
Tom Degan
from the Great American Weekend in
Goshen, NY

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Reading these analyses has helped. Thanks. In France, I was a fervent and active supporter of (Socialist candidate) Ségolène Royal. I don't think I was swimming in a sea of illusion: to become the presidential candidate of a major democratic country, one cannot be that pure. But my feeling was that under Ségolène's presidency, in such a "presidential" state, there would be some room to maneuver, some oxygen to breathe, some time to think, and we would have greater power in influencing her actions.

Well, she did not win the election and my feeling will be neither vindicated nor rebuked by fact. And the fact is that with Sarkozy, almost nothing is now possible as he is concretely destroying--bit by bit, law by law, decree by decree--what was left of humanist values in French society, and the majority of people are too busy trying to survive at everyone else's expense to even have time to think, much less act.

"Anything but Sarkozy" was the rallying cry for what was otherwise lukewarm support for the Socialist candidate. It did not work. I hope that "Anything but McCain" can work in the US among "pure" progressives, whose numbers seem significant. There is a high probability that if Obama wins, there will be some room for bottom-up pressure to work, even against Obama, whereas if McCain is elected, there is the same probability that McCain will be even more effective than Sarkozy in destroying whatever is left of humanism in the US system.

If anyone has any doubt regarding the possibility of confiscating freedom of thought in the US, please refer back to the 1950s. It is so much easier today with the mass media's rise in power! Add to that, a few well-targeted laws that can put you in jail or send you to seek political refuge in another country. Easy.

In a totalitarian system, it is very hard to survive and that is all individuals are allowed to do. Barely survive, at whatever cost to social cohesion and to the rest of the world. Totalitarianism--political, mental, economic--is what McCain stands for and will act for. This has to be avoided. The rest of the world is counting on American voters. Please, progressive Obama critics, help get him elected. There will be time, then, to take matters into our hands.

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