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Election 2008

Hillary's Pivotal Role: Help Obama or Let Him Twist in the Wind?

By Matt Taibbi, RollingStone.com. Posted June 11, 2008.


Clinton must choose between two loyalties: party and self.
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Well, Hillary Clinton is finally out of the race. Sort of. Her campaign is suspended, and her hopes for 2008 are officially over, sort of, meaning it's now appropriate, sort of, to reflect upon the meaning of her run for office this year.

And that, folks, is already saying something -- the fact that it's not time to write a political obituary for Clinton. Had she lost in New Hampshire this year and then bowed out of the race -- and she came within a few percentage points of having that scenario unfold -- she most likely would have been finished as a presidential hopeful for good.

But she stayed in it, amazingly, fighting off four or five near-death experiences to remain a viable candidate. The mere fact that she survived New Hampshire, and Nevada, and Super Tuesday, and Texas, and all of those other fail-safe points earlier on in the race is incredible enough; she could have bowed out at any time after those primaries and it would still have been an amazing run.

But in one of the weirder episodes in the history of American presidential politics, she stayed in it long after the math had already been decided (which was basically after the Potomac primaries) in Barack Obama's favor, with the result that we now enter the general election season looking at an almost unheard-of triangular scenario: The American electorate is now basically split into thirds, and how Clinton proceeds from here will shape the future of all three groups.

If Clinton sits out the general election season, or campaigns halfheartedly for Obama, and John McCain wins, she becomes the automatic front-runner for the Democratic ticket in 2012.

Clinton, of course, must be aware of this calculus and as such is faced with an unprecedented moral/ethical choice heading into the fall. If she campaigns hard for Obama and helps pull all of her disaffected voters back onto the Democratic ticket, Obama will probably win this thing in a landslide. If she pulls a slowdown, however, and a big chunk of her voters sit this one out or vote for McCain, it will greatly enhance her own prospects for the presidency four years later.

Clinton, therefore, must choose between two loyalties: party and self. Depending on how one looks at things, one might even say the choice is between country and self. Assuming that one believes the differences between a Republican presidency and a Democratic presidency would be profound, Clinton now must decide if she thinks that the country would be better off suffering through four years of McCain before getting a shot at putting her own excellent, experienced self in the Oval Office, or whether it would be better off putting a man whose platform is almost identical to her own in there right away.

Anyone who thinks that should be an easy choice -- that the "right" thing to do is obviously to put party over self, and not only help Obama get elected but help strip the Republicans of power -- is kidding himself or herself. The American presidency is the biggest prize on the planet Earth. Should a beaten and fatigued Obama fall even one vote short in a race against a very old and very flawed Republican candidate, Clinton suddenly becomes about a 1-3 Vegas favorite for the Big Seat four years from now.

Ask yourself how hard you'd stump for a once-loathed rival in that scenario. Better yet, ask your friendly neighborhood psychiatrist how easy it would be for a woman who has suffered as much public abuse and humiliation as Clinton has over the last few decades to rationalize the many subtle forms of sabotage that are now open to her with regard to Obama's campaign, should she choose to go that route.

As this increasingly strange campaign season unfolded, I often had people ask me what the hell Clinton was doing. Particularly after the Potomac primaries, the actual motives of Clinton for continuing on and punching holes in the presumptive Democratic nominee as she did seemed to many of us campaign reporters to be a genuine, Agatha Christie-worthy mystery.

At first, I didn't have an answer for anyone who asked that question. But as time wore on, and I started to get more letters and read more internet postings, I thought I was starting to grasp the bigger picture. The only way that Clinton's behavior back then makes any sense at all, ethical or otherwise, is if she viewed her political career purely through the prism of feminist achievement, i.e., as a way to provide inspiration to every qualified woman who was ever asked or expected to step aside in life for the sake of a man.


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See more stories tagged with: 2008, hillary clinton, 2012

Matt Taibbi is a writer for Rolling Stone.

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Feminism vindication?
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Jun 11, 2008 1:44 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a lifelong Democrat that campaigned as a student for Adlai Stevenson and voted for JFK at my first opportunity to vote in a presidential election. I do not believe that during my lifetime that any Republican was worthy of occupying the White House and the history of such governance will be my proof. That being said, Hillary Clinton poses the greatest threat to constitutional governance of any candidate in our history and it is for one simple reason-Bill Clinton. Clinton's presidency tarnished Democrats in ways that will require decades to overcome [rightly or wrongly] and his seeming popularity out of office is mysterious to me but is probably attributable to the disfavor many feel about Bush/Cheney. I am irrefutably opposed to a co-presidency and that is an inevitability if Hillary is ever elected while still married to Bill. He will dominate her, as he has throughout their relationship, and that will subvert the term limit prohibition that opens a Pandora's box for future generations. Her feminist advocacy is noble but misplaced and hardly a reason to elect her as our President. She should consider the noble career of Ted Kennedy and remain in the Senate. He celebrates more than 50 years of dedicated, meaningful service to the nation that far exceeds anything that any President can achieve in one or two terms. Reject that or sit on the sidelines in '08 and she will be the next Geraldine Ferraro. Because Hillary exhibits poor judgment or none at all, my guess is that her ego will relegate her to another bonehead ploy and that she and Bill will soon divorce over another of his mindless skirt-chasing pursuits. The Clintons are no dynasty and Hillary's candidacy was flawed from the start because it was about her and not us.

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» RE: Feminism vindication? Posted by: bbfmail
» RE: Feminism vindication? Posted by: bc430
» RE: Feminism vindication? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Feminism vindication? Posted by: helenwheels
» Whitey Posted by: radiomorning
» RE: Feminism vindication? Posted by: cmaukonen
» RE: Feminism vindication? Posted by: camanokat
» RE: Feminism vindication? Posted by: helenwheels
» Good judgment? Posted by: Kym525
» RE: Feminism vindication? Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: Feminism vindication? Posted by: zackfu
Support Obama, but get him responsible too
Posted by: saltoafronteira on Jun 11, 2008 1:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are good reasons, after AIPAC meeting, and above all, after the supposed attending of bildelberg conference (see: http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9270 ), that Barack is alreay undermined by the bilderberger criminals (Kissinger, Rotschild's servants, Rockefeller and others).
Negociating with such scum may, perhaps, be an inevitable move he must take, and (I hope) It doesn´t necessarly mean he is pactuating with the interests that sank the world to its present situation.
However, one must not trust anyone, nowadays, so it is essencial that political pressure is started in order to make Obama realise that, above all, he responds to the people and not to those criminals.

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Get with the program, Hillary
Posted by: Tom Degan on Jun 11, 2008 2:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If she throws a monkey wrench into the Obama campaign - subtley or otherwise - her motives will be chrystal clear. If that happens, not only will she not receive the nomination in 2012, she won't even be renominated to run for her senate seat that year. There will be a lot of pissed off preogressives here in New York State who will see to that - Count on it

And please don't accuse me (as more than a few have) of being a sexist. The reason I was against her campaign from day one had not a thing to do with the fact that she is a woman. It is because the woman in question's name is Hillary Rodham Clinton. Had her name been Eleanor Holmes Norton, a woman I admire greatly, I would be working overtime for her campaing today - Barack Obama be damned.

In October 2002, Senator Clinton was presented with the most important vote she will ever make in her life and she blew it! When she voted to give that murderous, half-witted little thug in the White House the authority to invade the (like it or not) sovereign nation of Iraq without the constitutionally mandated congressional approval, she revealed herself to be a person of extremely questionable judgement. Her eye was on the upcoming 2002 election and she had to prove that she was as homicidal as any man.

For that reason alone, she doesn't deserve to have her name on a laundry ticket.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
Gentlemen, Start Your Rhetoric

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» RE: Get with the program, Hillary Posted by: carbon-based
Let's stop blaming Hillary and keep Obama responsible
Posted by: cunning rabbit on Jun 11, 2008 3:09 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One weird thing about this campaign is that while Obama's record is to Hillary's left, his campaign platform is to her right. So Hillary is not the only one who has made compromises for political gain. Let's also not forget Obama's repudiation of his pastor of many years, the pastor who was in a sense responsible for his conversion to Christianity. So yes, I think he will make a much better president than McCain. But no, I don't trust him. We will have to watch over Obama just like any other politician. And voter oversight over politicians is what democracy is all about. If you would only support a candidate who makes no compromises, perhaps you should vote for Ralph Nader.

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» RE: *Snort* No Kidding! Posted by: Longdream
» RE: *Snort* No Kidding! BINGO! Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: *Snort* No Kidding! Posted by: helenwheels
Are we being had -- again?
Posted by: Moonray on Jun 11, 2008 3:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with cunning rabbit: I prefer Obama over Hillary or McCain, but I have a growing uneasiness about Obama's sincerity. His sucking up to AIPAC the other day was embarrassing to watch and recently he has genuflected to conservatives on other issues as well.

What is that crap about "the war in Afghanistan is the war we must win"? A) It is quite obvious that the Afghan war won't be "won" -- whatever that means -- anytime soon and probably is unwinnable. And B) What is this supposedly anti-war candidate doing now offering a blank check to the neocons to continue their adventures in South Asia?

I have a disturbing feeling that Obama's candidacy was never meant to get this far, that he was intended to merely protect Hillary's left flank and then drop out, but the public's wholesale embrace of him propelled him into the top spot. Are his real backers the same triangulators who pull the strings on Bill and Hillary? Let's hope not.

One thing is for sure: If Obama is not elected, or if he's elected and turns out to be another Establishment stooge, American liberalism is dead. We might as well pack our bags and head for the border, because corporate Republicanism will be the only future this country has left.

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» RE: Are we being had -- again? Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Are we being had -- again? Posted by: helenheenan
» RE: Are we being had -- again? Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: Are we being had -- again? Posted by: helenwheels
Taibbi takes the 'brown bag'
Posted by: weathered on Jun 11, 2008 3:52 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Little Matt got bought.
There's nothing we can learn from the author. Go back to Bard Matt and embrace your insignificance.

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» RE: Taibbi takes the 'brown bag' Posted by: bloominblacksheep
» RE: Taibbi takes the 'brown bag' Posted by: MobileSucks
Eliz-NY
Posted by: Eliz-NY on Jun 11, 2008 4:06 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excellent article Matt but I see nothing wrong with Hillary simply stepping aside and allowing Obama to succeed or fail...all on his own.
Any involvement she has in his race will only lead to some form of blame, especially when he fails. I say she should smile, step aside and focus on her Senate responsibilities...and begin sublty working on a 2012 race.

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» RE: liz-NY Posted by: canadagirl
» RE: liz-NY Posted by: desidid
» Yeah! Posted by: WhuThe?!?
The Clintons Mask has Fallen completely Off
Posted by: Purple Girl on Jun 11, 2008 4:33 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Life long Dem,2x Bill Supporter and avid defender- but that was the '90's. Now I hope the 'Door' Does smack them on the Ass on the way Out.They've Proven their allegience- to themselves and to their Corp/foreign sponsors. My sincerest Apologies to All I wasted time and Breath debating all those Years- You Were Right, I was Wrong- Arrogant,self seving Opportunists dressed in Blue.
Her complicite votes, her silence, Her Campaign tactics all point to the fact they are nothing more then covert operatives for the Corps. Once I pulled Up a List of DLC members, I was able to decipher their coded agenda. I was often confused by many who are in their ranks as to who they were serving. Joe LIEberman is the most obvious, but once you see the list you begin to understand the under LYING motivation. Those who were not on the list- but still cause this Ol Dem pause, must be just waiting for their application to be accepted- or Like Levin already struck a lucrative Deal with the Corps long before 1984 (appropo?). But I have yet to figure out Gore- maybe holding a grudge because the DLC worked against him since their allegeince seems to be centered around the Clintons?But Can't figure out why he will not through his Political Clout behind Obama (Not DLC). to me that says more about Gores intentions and motivations then Obama's. So Be it- stick with what your Good At Al. Kerry must have seen the Light- A DLC'er can Not seal the Deal with the Real Democratic Base.We'll vote for him- holding our nose against the Corp Stench, but we will not extend Ourselves any farther. Same Reason Hillary could not Con US either- she Reeked of Corp Whoring.Honestly the Clintons cause me as much concern as do the Neo Cons.Their allegiences are the Same and their under handed tactics come from the same playbook (because they are One in the Same).She may publically support & assist Obama- but the Clinton machine will be helping Mac (her buddy on The Armed Services and Corp CoWorker)

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Was the apple in the garden of Eden really that bad?
Posted by: gemajabe on Jun 11, 2008 4:51 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are both politicians. Each one did what they had to do to win-you listed all the stuff Senator Clinton did and managed to leave out the unattractive parts of Senator Obama's campaign-I will not list them, since any criticism is interpreted as racism. He's no angel-either is she-but really if he loses it's HER fault!No wonder women are angry. They have never had representation in the Executive branch and when they try, they are blamed for picking on poor Senator Obama. The race for the primary is over. It is his responsibility to win. If he loses it is not because of Senator Clinton. It is not her role to support the male. It happens to be in her interest and in the interest of the country to campaign for him and she will, but she cannot insure his victory. It's his race to lose. You media people from all pov's wanted a democratic guy to run-okay you've got a guy, let's hope he wins, not the other guy. Will there ever be a day when a woman runs and men support HER?

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» RE: Oh, please! Posted by: Longdream
Matt, you've become a part of...
Posted by: Todd Kimmell on Jun 11, 2008 4:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Matt, I'm surprised that an often on target writer could or would swallow the same spoonful of baloney thats being passed around and try to pass it back off again.


"If she campaigns hard for Obama and helps pull all of her disaffected voters back onto the Democratic ticket, Obama will probably win this thing in a landslide. If she pulls a slowdown, however, and a big chunk of her voters sit this one out or vote for McCain, it will greatly enhance her own prospects for the presidency four years later."


Listen, Matt, it is simply not possible that any sizable percentage of Clinton supporters will vote for McCain or sit this one out, so get off that bandwagon, please. If you are basing your opinions on the handful of honestly devoted Hillary fans who took this second place finish as a moment to gush disappointed and even angry tears on camera, then maybe you better actually talk to a broad selection of Clinton fans.


My wife and I supported Hillary, sent money when we had very little, worked the Philadelphia phone bank. Hell, I was even hauled up on stage during her victory party at the Bellevue, much to the horror of my friends at Funky Junk Farms who saw me on CNN and are avid Obama fans!


My beloved and I are not just Democrats. We're the good guys. We position ourselves in this universe as the good guys, and we act accordingly. Obama is a terrific candidate, an inspiring American speaker when we're clearly ready to be inspired... and at a moment when we're ready to remake America back into being the land of the good guys, in our own minds and in the eyes of the world.


The best and the brightest of a new generation will flock to Washington to be a part of our new place in a new world of our making.


If Hillary hadn't been running, we'd have supported Obama from the beginning. But she WAS running, and we like her, and we believe in her as a leader.


Now, we devoted but NOT now disaffected Hillary supporters easily throw our good guy energy behind Obama. Write something about that, and get on board!


Todd Kimmell
Fairmount Park
Philadelphia

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False Dichotomy
Posted by: arch8ie on Jun 11, 2008 5:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tabbi posits Hillary's choice as between "self and party" - it is truly between "country and self". We can't afford, in any sense of the word, a McCain presidency. If Hillary sits on her hands, or makes a lukewarm attempt to support Obama, the fate of the nation may well be sealed.

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» Passing the Buck, I am confu$ed Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: False Dichotomy Posted by: tennismom
Where would Obama be without Hilary?
Posted by: KAEL on Jun 11, 2008 5:33 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, anyone that thinks that the American electorate is split in thirds, even on a good day for Democrats, is deluded. I am assuming that by this Tabibi means that we are 1/3 for conservatives, any conservative, 1/3 for progressives, any progressive or liberal, and 1/3 for feminists or centrists, both of which are personified in Clinton. Duh, what polls or websites is he reading?

Obama would have been nowhere today if Hilary had "bowed out" after NH or after her "amazing run" up til Feb 5th. Without Hilary, Obama couldn't be relied on to be left standing in a debate. He smirks, wilts, and looks down his imperious nose at his opponent, which many will see as looking down on them - as he did in SF. And because Hilary stayed the course so long, much of the Rev Wright controversy will not be new to Americans as we go into the general election. Who would have wanted Wright, Ayers, Michelle and the priest in September?

Yes, I too thought she was playing to the end for women, and the longer she hung in and "fought like a man", the prouder I became of her - and the more clear it was that she is more than qualified to be our President. And I too thought that in her concession speech she was setting Obama up for 2008 and herself up for 2012, if needed. That I find very wise - for the country, not for Hilary.

And I thought of one other thing while she gave her concession speech. Could Obama have as easily spoken to his constituency of staying the course for Hilary? After Obama's people played the race card early on with the MLK/LBJ attack on the Clintons, I don't even want to think of how angry, ugly, and racist the day Obama loses his first race could be. I trust Clinton and McCain supporters to lose. I genuinely fear the day Obama loses anything -not Obama, but many of his true believers will divide this country like never before, if the recent past is any harbinger of the future.

And Obama is at least as likely to lose this election as to win. He lost many centrist Dems who were on the fence in February when he pranced across the stage in TX calling those who didn't support him "cynics" instead of skeptics, which many Dems were at the time and all who care about our country should have been. This spectacle by someone who wants to "unite" a party and then the country, starting with Washington? That speech did not represent change I believe in. It was political blundering at the least, messianic at worst.

Let's hope for the sake of universal health care, the environment, and fair taxation of the rich and wind fall profits that Obama can win. He may rise. He may fall. It wasn't Hilary that lost the vast majority of the large, key states. It was Obama. It wasn't Hilary that dissed the heart of America. It was Obama, his wife, and his advisors. It wasn't Hilary that didn't go to states she couldn't win. That amazing decision was Obama's. This is change I don't want to believe in and never will.

We would have a lot less to do now if we had Hilary as our nominee. She comes with no unknowns and huge strenghts, both personally and politically. But we have what we have - the American Idol candidate. I pray he is true to his ideals, grows up fast, moves to the center where Hilary and America are, and dumps the cynics in his life.

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» Hillary sent us to war Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» She comes with no unknowns? Posted by: foreverhope
» ROFLMAO! Ya know..... Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: OFLMAO! Ya know..... Posted by: KAEL
Pivotal for Hillary, but not for the party, or the nation.
Posted by: KeepsonTickn on Jun 11, 2008 5:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I started out supporting John Edwards. When he dropped out, I reluctantly switched to Obama, though I had thought and said some less than generous things about him. But once he was "my candidate" I began to reevaluate Obama, and I found a lot of good in him. Had he lost to Hillary, I would have gone through the same process for her.

That is human nature, and Hillary's supporters are not exceptions to it. Hillary's support, or lack of support for Obama will play out for the most part in terms of her personal reputation, not the election.

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Virtue Vs. Vicious
Posted by: fdgsr on Jun 11, 2008 5:52 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fellow Democrats. Can the crap. We have an election to win. There is no doubt that there was an element of feminism in Clinton's campaign by virtue of the fact that she is a woman. There was an element of racism in Obama's campaign by virtue of the fact that he is half black (Therefore all black as far as politics goes.) There was an element of sexism in Obama's campaign by virtue of the fact that he is a male with normal testosterone levels. Hillary has two balls, both eyeballs, which she kept her mind on. She knew that she had to overcome millennia of male dominance to get the nomination. He has four balls, only half of which are eyeballs. He had to overcome only racism to get the nomination. CW is that black women are stronger than black men, so Obama had to overcome that too. But then he had Michelle. Her vote counted higher than Hillary's note.

Remember for the general election that "...all the brothers are gallant and all the sisters, virtuous..."

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» RE: Only Racism Posted by: desidid
» RE: Only Racism Posted by: desidid
» RE: We have an election to win Posted by: westomoon
Matt's quandries
Posted by: QCao009 on Jun 11, 2008 6:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The issues of this campaign are much more complex than race and gender. It is about the redefinition of the "values" we are purportedly casting our votes for: safety, choice, war, economy, and most of all, education. On every single one of those indexes, voters no longer trust Republicans to do the right thing. So, what have the Rove machine and FAUX done? Focused and spun the last sixteen months first on Hillary vs the rest to push her "inelectability" and then on Obama vs Hillary to stress his "inexperience".

One of the motivations for those of us reading Alternet is how it interprets the news differently from the mainstream media. It is disappointing to see Matt repeat these talking points and get caught up in the destructive spin-down of personalities.

Sure, I agree, Bill got distracted, but the distraction was part of the game plan, and in so doing, the other party renders their own message obsolete and their pact with the devil was sealed.

There is much work for us to do. Patting ourselves on the soldiers does not change the fact that the three candidates left standing are all Senators, and historically, they have seldom made good Presidents. They are simply too caught up with their own egos and Senators are, intrinsically as part of their role, resistant to any fundamental change.

It remains to be seen how Senator Obama will perform, but as of now, there is no choice at all. Senator McCain has revealed himself in this campaign to be old, disconnected, and unfit for the job. Running on fear just makes him look that much more decrepit and disheveled. Can anyone imagine someone looking worse than George W Bush ?

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'Clinton Chronicles': murder and cocaine in Arkansas
Posted by: securacom-wtc on Jun 11, 2008 6:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Watch the 'The Clinton Chronicles', free on Google Video! A tale of cocaine Trafficing and murder in Arkansas!

Free Documentary on www.video.google.com 'One Nation Under Siege'(1.4hrs). Through the research and personal testimony of over a dozen internationally distinguished authors, journalists, doctors, and military experts (Major General Albert Stubblebine) you will understand the massive and ceaseless control projected onto an unsuspecting populace by a government that may have finally crossed the line from a representative republic to a fascist empire. From the USA PATRIOT Act and the blatant disregard for the Bill of Rights to the outright tracking of every human being on the planet earth, you will be stunned by what U.S. government documents describe for the future of America. http://www.undersiegemovie.com/
USA’s Constitution and currency are being destroyed from within. How? Videos free on www.video.google.com 1) America: Freedom to Fascism, 2 hrs; 2)911 Justice, 18min; 3) The Clinton Chronicles, 1.7 hrs; 4) Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement, 2 hrs, 5) Terrorstorm: A History of False Flag Terror, 2 hrs 6) 911 Mysteries, 2 hrs; 7)The Creature from Jekyll Island, 1hr; 8)Orwell Rolls in His Grave, 2hrs; 9) The War on Democracy, 1.5 hrs; 10) The Energy Non-Crisis, 1 hr; 11)Iraq for Sale 1.2 hr; 12) Zeitgeist, 2 hrs; 13)Ring of Power, 2.5 hrs; 14)Bush link to JFK, 1.5 hrs; 15) The Century of the Self, 4 hrs; 16) Loose Change (2nd ed & Final cut) 2hrs each; 17)John Pilger: The New Rulers of the World; 18) The Money Masters: How International Bankers Gained Control of America, 3.5 hrs 19) Barack Obama CFR info 20) Global Warming or Global Governance 21) The Great Global Warming Swindle 22) Mercury, Autism and The Global Vaccine Agenda 23) The CIA, Mind Control and Satanism 24)George Hunt: UN UNCED Earth Summit 1992 (Population Reduction) 25) End of NAtions - EU Takeover 26) Washington, You're Fired 27) Blackwater: America's Private Army 28) Esoteric Agenda 29) Fiat Empire: Why the Federal Reserve Violates the U.S. COnstitution 30) The Revolution Will not be Televised [USA overthrow of Hugo Chavez] 31) One Nation Under Siege 32)Breaking The Silence - Truth and Lies in the War on Terror, by John Pilger(and all his documentaries) 33)Beyond Treason 1.5hrs

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» Turn RFK into a Race Track Posted by: JibreelRiley
» RE: Turn RFK into a Race Track Posted by: Longdream
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned
Posted by: Ayla87 on Jun 11, 2008 6:24 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Go Hilary Go!

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RESPONSE TO bbfmail and Ayla87
Posted by: bc430 on Jun 11, 2008 6:59 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hillary proved that the White in American racism trumps the FEMaleness in Feminism.

When the dirty dealing 'sack Barack attack' was launched in New Hampshire and got shifted into high gear in OHIO, Mr. and Mrs. Clinton went fishing in the waters of the KKK and the Aryan nation's pool of most eligibles. Feminism and the Fem movement were the least thing on their Wealthy, White, Elitist, little minds.

At the very end SEXISM got its turn to be exploited and falsely accused for the failure of the Clinton's third presidential bid.

You see my friend, White racism is a White invention and there has never been a single White racist that exercised good judgement.

Proof: Completely out of left field you said, concerning Barack Obama..... "as he would know more disown Rev. Wright as he would his white grandmother...of course that doesn't mean he won't "push them them under the bus". His "White" grandmother????? You are aware that there are two grandmas, right? In your economy is his "Black" grandmother worth less than his White grandmother? My dear fellow American, if I could renounce your deeply ingrained White racism and the poor judgemental effect it renders I would have done so years ago.

It is extremely poor judgement on your part to cling to the thought of a three term Bill Clinton presidency. It is worse judgement to cling to the false notion of Hillary Clinton's superiority over Barack Obama as POTUS, or Michelle Obama as First Lady. It is poor judgement and absurd to cling to the fantasy that a wealthy White ELITIST like Mrs. Hillary R. Clinton gives a damn bit more about you than she does about the Black unemployed West Virginia material handler or any Mexican lawn boy or female farm worker.

In case you haven't noticed, when you are no longer useful to Mrs. Clinton's abstract vote counting she won't gently push you under the bus. Just like she and her hubby did "hard working" and loyal Black folks, your poor working class White loyalty will be hurled under the first fast moving bus in sight.

As to your unwarranted fear, dread and hate of "Rev." WRIGHT. The Wealthy White Elites whose gOD is POWER and who would have us all paying $50.00 for a gallon of gasoline know Dr. Wright as a dangerous Negro because he can not only disciple and prepare all kinds of excellent Black professionals but even Black presidents of the USA. They want you and the rest of the American White racist pawn force to falsely fear and hate him as a Mad, Radical Black Militant. All code buzz words used by our Intel Dept. to induce panic. These code words tell Black non thinkers, "avoid this Jeremiah Wright Ni$$er 'cause he will cause you to lose your job." It would not be in the best interest of those who believe that the Biblical drunken curse of Noah cast upon his grandson yet rests upon Black human beings to direct them to a gifted Elder like Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr, "cause after 20 years of sittin in his Church a colored person might end up in the State House, or the White House, instead of the jail house." Who will shine our shoes and wash our cars if all the darkies get educated and uppity?

I believe you are capable of better judgement.

Hava nice day and renounce American White racism.

I dare call it what it is until it no longer robs us of true greatness.

Children are watching.

Peace.

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» what is your point Posted by: JibreelRiley
» RE: what is your point Posted by: desidid
» RE: what is your point Posted by: JibreelRiley
» RE: what is your point Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: what is your point Posted by: helenwheels
How Do You Figure?
Posted by: desidid on Jun 11, 2008 7:11 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Clinton sits out the general election season, or campaigns halfheartedly for Obama, and John McCain wins, she becomes the automatic front-runner for the Democratic ticket in 2012.

In what alternate universe do you live? If Hillary is perceived by Democrats to have submarined our chances at the White House, just who would her coalition be? The Appalachian Dixiecrat, angry white women, barflies (cause she proved she's a two-fisted drinker), and "moderate Republicans" good luck winning with that crowd.

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Hillary's Racism
Posted by: alchidester on Jun 11, 2008 7:14 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The morning after Obama's Iowa victory, Hillary said in an interview with Matt Lauer "He (Obama) may be an eloquent speaker, but he hasn't done the 'spade'work" revealing her as at best an unconscious racist. If she lets him "twist in the wind" she will be just another good citizen who attended the picnic and lynching, in this case, of a rival for power. We suffer from a racist hangover. Let's get over it and elect the first decent candidate I have seen since Robert F Kennedy - Barack Obama.

Al Chidester

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» RE: Hillary's Racism Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: Hillary's Racism Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: mick3 Posted by: helenwheels
Videosong
Posted by: videosong on Jun 11, 2008 7:42 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yet another anti-Hillary column by AlterNet... I have to laugh when I see this type of desperate attempt to lay all blame on Hillary Clinton. How dare she run, how dare she respond to criticism, how dare she stay in the race??!!?

These types of articles are blatant attempts to further divide the Democratic party, while throwing the blame onto one candidate. All along, the media has sought to divide Clinton and Obama. I saw very little from either of them in the way of bitter exchanges. I've certainly seen worse in previous races throughout my lifetime. Both candidates made some ridiculous comments about the other, as most candidates do in the primaries. Eventually they re-unite when one is chosen the winner, and we all throw our support to the person who will help us win. Clinton already voiced her support of Obama in a stirring concession speech, but apparently that wasn't supportive enough.

Why does the media continue to make it sound as though staying in a race through the primaries (when you do actually have a chance) is somehow un-American? It embodies the idea of having a primary before the general election!

Come now, Mr. Taibbi. Surely you have more insightful, educated articles to write. Stop wasting your time trying to vilify Clinton for anything and everything that could go wrong in the election. It's disgraceful and wasteful, and most of us who aren't Republican are quite tired of it.

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» QED Posted by: Drclaw
» oops Posted by: Drclaw
» RE: On The Contrary Posted by: desidid
» RE: Videosong Posted by: Rosasharn
» RE: Videosong Posted by: helenwheels
In her own self interest: 100% full out support for Obama
Posted by: Robert Henry Eller on Jun 11, 2008 6:09 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Matt: There is no question that Hillary will do what is in her own interest. However, if she's as smart as she's supposed to be, this will lead her to support Obama flat out. Here's why:

Simply, if Hillary doesn't support Obama completely, and doesn't bring her supporters along, and Obama loses, she's dead, politically.

First of all, Obama's supporters will blame her, and not forget, and they will pay back in kind. Second, Hillary's supporters who either stay home, or vote for McCain, will learn a very hard lesson, if McCain wins. Many of them will decide they've made a mistake. But they won't blame themselves. They'll blame Hillary. Third, even some McCain supporters will realize the error of their ways, over the next four years, if McCain wins. They won't like Hillary any better in four years than they do now.

Bottom line: Hillary works in her own best interest by working flat out for Obama now. If Obama wins, and the Democrats take the Senate, and maybe the House, the Dems get a chance to do something, and Hillary gets 4 or 8 years to actually become the policy powerhouse she now claims to be, but isn't. If Obama has a successful presidency, Americans will be much more ready to support Hillary, or, at least, a woman, after winning their bet on a black man.

I say, Hillary's best move is out-and-out support for Obama. Hillary, please keep thinking about yourself. But do it with your brain. That's the one inside your own skull. Not in Bill's skull, Mark Penn's skull, or Jimmy Carville's skull. Liberate yourself, baby!

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Hillary's responsibility for disinformation about Barack.
Posted by: Christie on Jun 11, 2008 7:59 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hillary ‘s campaign bears responsibility for an awful lot of disinformation that sowed doubts about the candidate, Barack Obama. THAT is why she has a not inconsiderable responsibility in this campaign to elect a Democrat. She is the one who divided the party by saying that only she and McCain were fit to run this country. She is the one who said, “he is not a Muslim. as far as I know”, knowing that any connection to the religion of Islam is considered by many to be undesirable in a presidential candidate. That is just two of the examples. So yes, it is wrong to stab someone in the back, then leave them to twist in the wind.

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Let's Keep the Divide Going--It's the Way to a Democratic Win in the Fall
Posted by: Prologo on Jun 11, 2008 8:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's time to stop framing Clinton as the Dragon Lady responsible for every woe of the Democratic party. If Obama loses in the fall, it's Hillary's fault! She's the bogeyman or woman, alright. What a way to let everyone else off the hook. Some Dems can't let go of this to the detriment of the Democratic Party. Hillary isn't Satan and Obama's not the 2nd coming. Instead of fomenting division among us (by insulting a candidate and imputing that insult on supporters), how about coming together and working hard to see that Obama gets elected?

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Do what is best for country.
Posted by: reelectnoone on Jun 11, 2008 8:27 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hillary will be remembered for two things over this primary period. (1) Her endurance and determination (2) how she accepts defeat.

It's tough but life is tough and she did lose. Now if she has any eye on her future she has to choose to do the right thing, not for herself but for the country. That is the decision that will define her. If she chooses the selfish obstructionist route that will be remembered as a slap in the face of her party and the American people.

Hillary should look to two possible futures. As Obama's VP candidate or, as one of Obama's Supreme Court Justices.

In either case she now has to throw her weight and campaign machine 110% behind Obama for the sake of the party.

A gracious looser is often thought better of than a gracious winner.

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It's Obvious To Me What Needs To Be Done
Posted by: SoCalLib on Jun 11, 2008 8:42 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama needs to invite Hillary supporters to a series of Town Hall meetings. He, Michelle, and a few pro-Obama feminists should speak to them and answer their questions. Not pandering. Not patronizing. But honestly hearing their side, then telling his. And telling them what would happen if they voted for McCain.
This way, whether Hillary picks "self" or "country", at least Obama can get his point across to her supporters that he's not as bad as she painted him to be.

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Comments From An Appalachian Feminist
Posted by: Southern Gal on Jun 11, 2008 8:57 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hillary stayed in the race because she truly thought that she was the best candidate for president. She also responded to her female supporters who got behind her because she represented their fight in this country. Women have experienced sexism in their work lives and in this culture. It has never been a level playing field for women. We have worked for less pay doing the same job as a male counterparts. We have been sexually harrassed and minimized in the workplace. I know that a lot of younger women take for granted those rights that many of us have been fighting for over the years. That's a good thing that they feel confident enough to do that. I'm tired of people belittling women and sexism. When you are so much a part of it you don't see it. Hillary became a symbol to many of us when we saw how she was being treated by the media and the bloggers. I won't vote for John McCain. I think that Hillary would be a great Vice President. That decision is Obama's. I don't for a minute think that Hillary will try to wreck Obama's chances for president. She will campaign and work for him. Put your efforts to defining all the ways that McCain won't be a good president.

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» I Took a Femimist Class Once Posted by: JibreelRiley
» good posts here Posted by: Drclaw
Hell hath no fury than a Clinton scorned!
Posted by: HughScott on Jun 11, 2008 9:07 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Enough said.

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Read about one poll that shows 35, 000 die-hard Hillary supporters.
Posted by: Christie on Jun 11, 2008 9:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wish I had saved a link. But consider: 35,000 mad-as-hell, nobody-but-Hillary supporters can write an awful lot of angry, "I will vote for McCain or not at all" posts. but I believe that is about 2% of the 18 million supporters Hillary claims that are "hers". And what percent is that of all who will vote--this is from memory, but I believe 62 million voted in the 2004 presidential election.

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It's the media
Posted by: Sunbird on Jun 11, 2008 9:32 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is ridiculous! I supported Kucinich until Chuck Todd forced him out of the race at war profiteer channel NBC. The DNC also manipulated the debates. I looked at the candidates finding BO to be corrupt with his association to Rezko and way too close to nuclear lobbyists. I personally caught him lying about the protests over the Florida and Michigan vote allocation. I had BO fatigue over constant praise by the media. I couldn’t determine his stand on the issues, except his flawed health care plan. I put my support behind Clinton. She has survived relentless trashing by the media and GOP. If the media was to be believed she could not do anything right they tarnished all her victories. BO had a free ride there was no investigation of his corrupt activities. Clinton has spent her life working for the welfare of all the people. I long for the quality of life we had under President Clinton. I cannot morally vote for BO. I will not blindly follow Clinton and support BO. After my search for a candidate I will support Nader. I will never vote for a republican. Nader has been even more dedicated to public service than Clinton. Nader does not answer to any corporation. I will not stand for the DNC forcing BO down my throat.

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I disagree
Posted by: Blogwoman on Jun 11, 2008 9:49 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wish people would get off this bandwagon. All Hillary did was run for President, let the process run its course so everyone could vote and got 18 million of them, by the way. Obama, the DNC, and many Obama supporters would have you believe that all of Obama's problems are due to Hillary Clinton. As a former Obama supporter, I can tell you, most people who would now not vote for him are mostly furious at the DNC for not running the best candidate (she became the populist). Hillary didn't invent Rev. Wright or Rezko or Ayers or the other kooks Obama associates with. She didn't make Obama select one of the most radical foreign policy advisors we've ever known (and one of the scariest) -- or did Z pick Obama?

And no, not all her supporters are racist. Of course if you see no value whatsoever in Hillary as a candidate, I could see how you might draw such a simplistic conclusion.

Many of Hillary's supporters saw a distinct difference in her stand on the issues and Obama's, and frankly, they just think he'd make a lousy president. The DNC made a mess out of the process this time, and Obama gamed the mess to his advantage. Frankly, many of us are furious because so many Obama supporters minimize the fact that he got four delegates. True, four would not have made the difference, but it's AGAINST THE RULES, PERIOD! That's like having a $100 bucks on a table and someone comes by and takes 2 dollars from you but doesn't consider it stealing because it's only $2.

Besides, how much do you really expect Hillary to be able to do to bring dems together? Really! Does she have a magic wand? She cannot make us vote for someone no matter how hard she campaigns and anyone who would vote for someone just because their former candidate of choice or their party tells them to vote for them isn't a thinking person. I'm not saying I'll vote for McCain, but we have to weigh all options here. Many of us just don't want another Jimmy Carter back in the White House, and we're not convinced McCain is Bush III. If he was, why are all the right wingers so over him?

If Obama loses, it's going to his fault and the DNC's fault only.

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» RE: I disagree Posted by: Longdream
» RE: I disagree Posted by: mpreb658@earthlink.net
masten
Posted by: masten on Jun 11, 2008 9:58 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think Matt's article is interesting but very wrong. He doesn't have a clue what Hillary's intentions are and either does anyone else. However, I think it is interesting that Matt gives her so much power in his essay. The truth is the world is sexist and Hillary is the better person to be president than Obama or McCain. Too bad all you folks just can't accept the fact that she should of won but the male identified democratic party is too sexist to endorse her. Too bad men can't grow up and get use to a strong female person. In addition, Hillary doesn't owe a thing to Obama or the democratic party only a sexist pig would demand that she has to help Obama because God knows he needs it. All talk and no action and no experience, except that he is male. Give me a break.

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Delusions are Powerful...
Posted by: judiths1_az on Jun 11, 2008 10:00 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been saying for some time and it appears to be true that Sen. Clinton holds three powerful delusions about the race she's been running.

1) She is entitled to the job.
2) She has earned the job.
3) The primary must not end until she's the nominee.

All three are wrong and hard to give up. Our minds can drive us crazy and her behavior throughout this period is off the beam.

I support Sen. Obama who has dealt with this mess in a dignified and reasonable way.

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A Question for Mrs. Ferraro......
Posted by: picket on Jun 11, 2008 10:20 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Will you vote for John McCain and encourage millions of other women to do so???? Even though I am sure you know that.....

a. McCain left his wife [a former model] for a younger, richer Cindy. The first Mrs was in a terrible accident while he was a POW. She required major surgery, leaving her much less attractive.

b. "McNasty" [John's high school nickname], yelled at Cindy during a campaign stop after she playfully twirled his hair and remarked "you're getting a little thin there"... the so called respecter of womanhood shot back....
"At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you 'C***'"

c. There is MUCH more to be said.....from

"The Real McCain" Cliff Schecter

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What A Backwards Discussion!
Posted by: shinseiji on Jun 11, 2008 10:42 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Or we might otherwise call it "The Brain Death of the U.S. Left". But that was to be expected as "progressives" were buffaloed back into the Democratic Party en masse with the Kerry campaign in 2004. Today there is no U.S. Left anymore as a result.

So, having taken their historic step backwards in political comprehension, the wheel reinventors are expressing their "amazement" at the "weird", "unusual" campaign results. Folks, grow up, this is just business as usual with the same old two party political monopoly. This latest episode featured the familiar plot where an angry, depressed "traditional" working class is pitted against an equally familiar coalition of the elitist "progressive" middle class ashamed of America's image abroad (they merely want it palatably whitewashed), together with African Americans. The point is not which politician plays what role in the plot, but that these demagogically defined groups, who should be in alliance, be instead continuously pitted against one another. If the Democrats aren't up to it, the Republicans can take up the slack in the alternative plot called "Reagan Democrats", should they choose to do so. With McCain it appears that they are choosing not to, defaulting the Presidency to Obama. It is a very old and tiresome game.

Barak Obama is simply the latest in a long line of effete, elitist "progressive middle class" limousine liberal politicians thrown up by the Democrats tracing back to Woodrow Wilson almost a century ago. Following in the Wilson mold are the "egghead" Adlai Stevenson, George McGovern and Jimmy Carter. Important local copies were the 1960's NYC Mayor John Lindsay, who began as a Liberal Republican politically indistinguishable from Obama, migrating to the Democrats by 1972.

In brief, Barak Obama is but the Emperors' latest new suit of clothes. No doubt he will make a lot of "progressives" feel good about "America" and more importantly, about themselves, as it is always about "moi" in the end with them, and not with the actual burning political issues.

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Yes, Matt, you're wrong!
Posted by: Contessa1201 on Jun 11, 2008 11:15 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You said it in your article: I MAY BE WRONG. Here is why I think you are WRONG or at least screwed up:

(1) you jumped on the Hate Hillary campaign early this year as a way to get more public attention, sell books and in other words, use Hillary to up your personal fortunes. You found out that hate makes big money. You were not along -- look at Rachel Maddow. For the two of you, Hillary becdame a cottage industry. You, Matt,for Bill Maher even went out on the road to do a little grin fest with your "let's make Hillary a buffoon" clips. The way you grinned show many of us you though yourself adorable Rachel even while waiting for Hillary to leave her house to make her concession speech, had to have one last vitriolicky cute Hillary put down and said: I see a motorcycle parked there. I can imagine Hillary hopping on it to go give her speech. (Was that 8th grade humor or not?) Such immaturity on your parts make you two much more OPPORTUNISTIC than you are claiming Hillary is.
(2) For you to even write this article tells me you're saying the same thing everybody else is saying but don't realize it: HILLARY IS THE ONLY NEWS OUT THERE AND THAT SHE REALLY IS ONE SMART LADY AND OBAMA NEEDS HER DESPERATELY IF HE IS TO WIN THE PRESIDENCY. You know as well as most of us out here in peonland that Obama and McCain are as dull as dishwater. Any article you wrote about either of them would certainly not be your meal ticket of the day. BUT A HILLARY ARTICLE -- there's still gold in them thar hills for greedy, self-centered miners like you and Rachel. So, go for it, Matt. You could be a good journalist if you'd let your brain take over and stop tryhing to play cute at someone else's expense.

(3) This is like a PS. WOW, if Hillary had dropped out of the race when everyone was doing the math,Inclujding sniggering you, look at what a GREAT WHACK article you could have done on her for not allowing every American to vote in the primary.

(4) In other words, Matt, you're just another pundit, political fortune teller who is trying to foist some oral snake oil on us. You COULD be good if you'd get off your 8th grade Class President stump. At this point, your writing is not even high-class snake oil. UGH!

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» RE: Yes, Matt, you're wrong! Posted by: SoCalLib
» RE: Yes, Matt, you're wrong! Posted by: Contessa1201
» RE: Yes, Matt, you're wrong! Posted by: SoCalLib
It takes two................
Posted by: hilaryuk on Jun 11, 2008 11:51 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the Obama supporters continue to pour out the vitriol towards Clinton, does it become more or less likely that she will do the right thing. Have Americans, both left and right, become so addicted to hating that they can't see the bigger picture? The world is watching anxiously as there is slightly less risk of global disaster if a Democrat becomes president, so I do hope the Clinton haters can get over themselves.

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He needs her like he needs articles like this one.
Posted by: Longdream on Jun 11, 2008 12:00 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just as the Republicans kept their distance in their various campaigns from the man who sunk their party, so should Barack keep far away from Clinton. Her strange campaign tells me she would be ambivalent at best, and having her campaign for him would be counter-productive.

I don't think he needs her to urge her former supporters into his camp. Don't judge by the fools here on this message board or any other--there won't be many people voting for McCain who don't, for whatever reason, value him for himself.

Hillary's spoilers are nothing but a myth.

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I’ll take Clinton
Posted by: solrev on Jun 11, 2008 12:24 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article is correct; it is going to be interesting to see which way Clinton jumps. I would like to see Clinton as VP and I do not even like her. Obama needs to do what he says and make a preemptive strike for peace starting in the Middle East. He needs to get over there and talk to those people. He surely knows that any advisor especially military types will not give him a true picture. If he is willing to give the Iraqi’s control of their oil he can achieve peace. The Iraqi nationalists will never let him snatch their oil. They will also never accept the current puppet government, so there is no use fighting Iran to see whom the real puppet master is. While Obama is doing that, there is no one who would be as good as Clinton, at muscling congress on domestic issues. I would vote for what ever she wanted just to get her out of my face. Nothing is going to change if congress is not beaten into submission both privately and publicly. The trick for Obama is to get Clinton on the ticket without looking weak. I think Clinton needs to keep a low profile and let Obama open up a double-digit lead on McCain. Then Obama could lower the boom out of strength. Choose the right person for the job. All the campaign ammunition Clinton has given McCain would be worthless, all is fair in love and politics. McCain has some real problems because in his quest for the media mouth conservatives and the supply sidewinder conservatives, he has flipped and flopped off his core, the straight shooter conservatives. Those people are looking for what Obama is trying to sell. So my advice to Obama would be to speak softly and carry a big Clinton.

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President Elect Obama dose not need Hillary's Help
Posted by: JibreelRiley on Jun 11, 2008 1:09 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The way the press is acting, like this is all show prep until we get to November and poof: We have Pres Elect Obama. What do you need Hillary for anyway? She is already getting the "out to pasture" treatment. The way the Obama's "Children of the Corn" is acting that the Hillary voting block is no needed to win in the fall. Even after landslide losses in West Virginia and Kentucky, the DNC still thinks there is a "50 State Strategy" even bring into question "is the working class white, Appalachia vote even needed?" New Democrats could just purge those old Democrats out the party and take the so call racist ways to the GOP were they belong. Sen Obama has: the kids, urban upscale whites, all blacks and the (young but few) Hispanics to take him all the way to the White House. You can even cross out swing states of Ohio, Michigan and Pennsylvania for new states like Colorado and Virginia... even most of you are willing to even call out the Obama blue state landslide in the fall so "why me worrie" is what most of you be saying.

What if "gasp" what if Obama loses this fall and who is going to be 1st to write in their books who takes up space at your local Anti-Christ bookstore (the lefty bookstore) about the chapter tittle "Hillary left Obama hanging" and folks like Matt T (I really just wanna sock this guy in the mouth) and friends waist more trees writing books about the obvious however missing the main point that Sen Obama is one of the worst candidates for President that the DNC could of pushed out there. Even George McGovern was not this bad (still holds the record for the kid vote even after Nixon place into law lowering the voting age to 18 and we know how that ended, but can't remember the Jimmy Carter years, go figure). You can call whites who refuse to vote for Obama racist all you want however thats not going to change there minds. No matter how much "progressive" change you people are "hoping" for, some people know history and they know this stuff has been said before and been tried before and they seen the failure.
Liberals do not win National Elections... how may Democrats that are out there would call themselves "liberals?" If some of these congressman placed (Socialist or Commie) next to there names than Democrat, would they still win elections? Sen Obama can't hide his uber left political leanings no matter how much the Northeast Media Bloc tries to carries the guys water. You can't Jedi Mind Trick the whole nation and its showing in poll numbers as McCain and Obama run just about even (and even in traditional Blue States) however we are going to do silly stories on how Arizona could be a swing state? Get the bleep out of here with that noise however the sad thing Obama still has hope just because there is not a IQ test when it comes for voting, even showing ID is frowned on by Liberals despite you need a ID to rent a movie from Blockbuster. I declare War on the powers that be that are willing to destroy American and are working to cut it down to size. You can fight the Oil Companies, while I'll shift focus to the Environmental Cartel . Plus you can find all the alt-fuels you want, my Chevy Cobalt will still need old fashion gasoline a long with my Chevy Camaro. I refused to surrender to the far left and the Charlatan of Presidential Candidate. Its not race either, I'm 27 and black: google me.

I declare War
jibreelkriley@gmail.com

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» Obama far left? Posted by: WhuThe?!?
Don't Bet on Nobility
Posted by: funnyguy on Jun 11, 2008 1:25 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Matt, you got it right, and we can all hope for nobility from Hillary and Bill---even a basic sense of responsibility would be an improvement---but don't bet on it. The Clintons have redefined narcissism and they are not likely to see the higher good prevailing over what they think is good for them.

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Aliza
Posted by: aliza on Jun 11, 2008 2:36 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The writer exaggerates the impact of a single woman on other women's behavior. And by doing this again disrespects women.
Hillary's role is important. Many feminists like me rallied to her side because of the toxic mysogyny which she and, by implication, all other women had to put up with. But most of us are independent thinkers and I am sure we will follow our conscience in Novemeber, despite our great anger and bitter disappointment. Let us hope that we have made a difference by showing our anger.

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Further words on the Hillary phenomenon
Posted by: Contessa1201 on Jun 11, 2008 2:55 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wrote earlier and had one comment. I was going to answer it as a reply to sender but thought I'd rather share publicly what I intended writing the person. He paraphrased my original comment by putting in Obama everywhere I had Hillary. I'm sure he thought he was being intellectually clever but all it accomplished was to show me where the writer is in his thinking procedss. So, here goes with my words to him.

There was no Obama hate campaign. Didn't you watch TV? They came up with the preachers but then via SPIN praised Obama's replies to high heaven and the whole thing was dismissed almost immediately. They quickly got back to their pillory of Hillary. I have no idea what FACTS cause you to dislike the Clintons so much. After all, Hillary was the FIRST person to EVER try to install a Universal Health Care System and it was shot down by Republicans attacking her via SPIN and not her message. Bill Clinton left the country with money in the bank at the end of his administration and yet you despise him, mainly due to the pundits' carefully chosen SPIN soundbites. I realize my words will have no effect on you. You're like my brother who is way deep into Jesus doings -- it would take de-programming to get his thinking back to the point it is his own. As you pressently are, the mere mention of the words Hillary or Clinto or Bill causes something in your libido to freeze up. That condition has been foisted upon you via SPIN, the mother's milk of public relations experts. Such mind re-arranging was invented in the 1920s by EDWARD BERNAYS, Freud's nephew. He invented SPIN, and, before it was adopted in America it was utilized by Edward Bernays' most infamous pupil, Joseph Goebbels. Google EDWARD BERNAYS and you will get an eye full, be amazed, and hopefully see how you have been trained to hate Hillary via a heavy SPIN of buzz words and innuendos and not concrete facts. Thank goodness the SPIN didn't work on 18 million voters but somehow it caught you. Do yourself a favor and Google EDWARD BERNAYS. It's extremely interesting and might help you to get a fresh insight on what a gunea pig you've aloowed yourself to become.

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» RE: Words on Hillary. Posted by: Longdream
Hillary supporters.
Posted by: gabbyone on Jun 11, 2008 3:17 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hillary supporters know that she has no choice.
She has to support Obama, but we don't have to follow. Last Sat they were 6 nobama groups
pledging to work against his nomination....today the new list has 18. They are from all sections of the country and are now beginning to work together. We assume this list will grow and grow and it presents a great risk for the candidate. Articles like this one continuing the attack on Hillary and threatening her as to what she had better do, will probably add a few more groups to the list as I write this. It is amazing to me how the winners are such sore losers. Keep on attacking Hillary and her supporters, you are helping fuel the anti Obama cause. You would rather keep up your rants than see Obama win.

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» Don't feed the trolls! Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» this is the best u can do? Posted by: Drclaw
» RE: this is the best u can do? Posted by: MobileSucks
» RE: Hillary supporters. Posted by: waterlily
Thebigkate
Posted by: Thebigkate on Jun 11, 2008 4:51 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Matt-You really "get" it!!! Congratulations on another well thought out, sassy piece!!!

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This is good historical news, but now we have to move on.
Posted by: dkm on Jun 11, 2008 5:20 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As at least one person has mentioned, we need to put away our ire at Ms. Clinton for her behavior and stop offending those who supported her. Her behavior has been documented and now we need to accept that those who were so emotionally involved in Ms. Clinton's campaign have to be brought to see that their goals can still be reached if they support Mr. Obama, but not if they support Mr. McBush. Just as Obama's supporters feel that Ms. Clinton didn't play fair, so Ms. Clinton's supporters don't feel that he played fair.

It's time to forget it. If we want another situation where Gore lost Florida in large part because people mistakenly thought that Nader was the only choice between Tweedledee and Tweedledum, then keep on this road where McBush and Obama are regarded as the same by those who think that the only real choice was Ms. Clinton. I can guarantee that a McBush presidency will not do the US or the world any good at all.

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chantilly
Posted by: uncleeddie on Jun 11, 2008 5:26 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whatever will be will be the futures not ours to see.....unless you were at Bilderberg where Hillary and Barak were given their marching orders. All else is pure fluff. Chantilly VA. where Barak left a planeload of confused idiots and the most subservient press in the history of mankind including all forms of government from fascist to anarchy to meet the bitch of Bill at Bilderberg.

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Richard
Posted by: sabrina on Jun 11, 2008 6:02 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just don't get it. I watched the speech Hillary gave conceding to Obama. I thought it was clear she was supporting Obama to the max. It was also clear what her motives were to stay in the race for as long as she did. Yes, it really mattered to alot of people that we elect a women President. Really mattered! She wanted to prove women could be tough competitors and not step aside for a man. She waited until the race was over. Why not? It was close, and who would be critising a man for fighting untill the end. She touched on all the issues that are important to progressives and what is at stake. She urged her supporters to back Obama over and over again. She was sincere!

The best the author could come up with is that she is lying. If Obama loses, it will not be Hillary's fault. It will be writers like you that can't give it a rest. I say go after McCain, support Obama, and leave Hillary alone.

Richard

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» RE: Richard Posted by: Longdream
» RE: ichard Posted by: sabrina
» RE: ichard Posted by: goldenta
» RE: ichard Posted by: rickiey
Here We Go Again With the "Evil Hillary" Routine
Posted by: sofla100 on Jun 11, 2008 6:13 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For the author of this article, why not just join the ranks of Limbaugh, Coulter and O'Reilly? Look, does Hillary really have the power to get Obama elected? Isn't that assumption a bit ridiculous? I mean, wouldn't she have secured the nomination herself if she were that powerful? Don't you think that perhaps Obama will not even want Hillary to campaign for him, especially in Southern States were her "negatives" might be very high? Hasn't Hillary already endorsed Obama? And, what good will it do for her to obtain the Dem nomination in 2012 if Obama loses and McCain tricks out the populace with a Bush type re-election fiasco? Or, to obtain the nomination in 2016 from an unsuccessful Obama presidency? Hillary has every motivation to support Obama and for Obama to be successful. His success and the success of the Dem party is her success. It seems that some news commentators, however, just cannot "let Hillary go." She is the archetypal "evil witch" it would seem. Somebody to blame for the war, America's health care crisis, and the bad economy. Boy, how does she do it all?

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Well, there's still write-ins, so she'll get at least one vote ...
Posted by: johnshadows on Jun 11, 2008 8:31 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...mine. Obama was anointed by the media, including a******s like the author of this article, and every article written about Clinton came with a 'but...' in it.

Sorry, I'm not playing along - I'll just vote for her anyway. I hope and think others will follow suit. Maybe if she pulls 3-4 percent in the general election, and Obama falls as a result, the Dems and the media will get the message - voters should make this decision, not media elitists and party insiders like Howard Dean, the Scalia of 2008 (yes, I'm talking about Florida).

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For one brief, shining moment
Posted by: westomoon on Jun 12, 2008 6:23 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... could we please stop talking about the damn primary, even if only for a week or two?

IT'S OVER, we've got the next Dem candidate, and the Gallup polls are already showing quite dramatically that the discussed-to-death "Hillary effect" is a mirage. I would so love to JUST STOP TALKING ABOUT HER!

I had my moments of doubt during the primary -- especially here on AlterNet -- but it is still true that we are Democrats, progressives, liberals because we are rational people who want to live comfortable lives in a country that gives all its citizens a fair shake. No matter what personalities are involved, how can that possibly translate to voting for that gibbering fascist McCain?

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» RE: McSenile Posted by: bessie
» RE: For one brief, shining moment Posted by: Frosted Cookie
Hillary has the intelligence to slam the bathroom door after Obama flushes himself...
Posted by: xbj on Jun 13, 2008 6:20 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...down the toilet, and that, dear friends and dearer ObamaNet, can't be more than just a few weeks away.

Inevitability... it's a beautiful thing.

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Boo-Hoo, I'm not voting for Obama
Posted by: MobileSucks on Jun 13, 2008 6:54 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This sad chatter we hear in June...
Clintonites for McCain-

The rules is the rules. Hillary was cool with 'em until she started to lose. Try to care more about the country than yourself, ya sore losers.

Obama and Hillary in terms of policy, are about the same.

Fine but you go right ahead and vote Republican or write Hillary Clinton on the ballot and tool yourself. The wingnuts that wont vote for McCain will be in vastly greater numbers than the few Hillary fans too immature to deal with lossing the nomination.

Anyway, Matt Taibbi's excellent article about says all that needs be said on this subject of Hillary Clinton, for now

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Let's stop blaming Hillary
Posted by: tennismom on Jun 13, 2008 7:50 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's sad how little Obama's supporters really believe in him. It's always Hillary's fault! How embarrassing for Obama, he is always the victm. Poor me! Blame Hillary. I am just misunderstood. I played the race card but it is not my fault. It is Hillary's fault. How dare she run against me. Why didn't she just hand me the nomination. I shouldn't have to work for it. I played the sexist card. It is all Hillary's fault cause she is a woman. If she would have just been a man and dropped out of the race the democratic party wouldn't be split. Didn't we just go thru this the last 8 years? Why can't we get a strong candidate who takes responsiblity for his actions. Obama can't even stand on his own. He keeps changing his stances and it is all Hillary's fault. Hint: Hillary is out of the race. Obama, if you want the Presidency - GROW UP -BE AN ADULT. Here's a concept - take responsibilty! Bet he won't.

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» RE: Let's stop blaming Hillary Posted by: Left of center
» RE: Tennismom Posted by: desidid
A Perfect Way For Hillary To Reinvest Herself In The Campaign
Posted by: desidid on Jun 14, 2008 5:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
right now, would be for her to make appearances with Michelle Obama. They could speak to the issues of women together, and more specifically they could speak to the issue of the right-wing smear campaigns issued against them. It would show American women how much they have in common.

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» Brilliant! Posted by: westomoon
» RE: Brilliant! Posted by: desidid
» RE: Brilliant! Posted by: westomoon
Please Proofread!
Posted by: Frosted Cookie on Jun 14, 2008 7:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some of you post great comments that would be vastly improved if you would take a moment to proofread them. Did you know that many readers believe that people who misspell a lot of words cannot be very intelligent? Don't let them think that of you!

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WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: beaubeau on Jun 14, 2008 3:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
HRC, THOUGHT SHE WAS "TO THE MANNER BORN" - BOTTOM LINE - THAT WAS HER MOTIVE, NOTHING ELSE. UPHOLDER OF FEMINISM , MY ASS!! AMERICA REALLY NEEDS TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT'S EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM - HOW GULLIBLE THESE (WHITE) WOMEN ARE; IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE THEY ACTUALLY STILL BELIEVE THIS SHIT. AND IF HRC, DOESN'T STAND BEHIND OBAMA - SHE'S FINISHED, PERIOD, EXCLAMATION POINT!! RIGHT NOW, I'M WILLING TO BET NEW YORK WILL NOT RE-ELECT HER. HRC ONLY CARES ABOUT HRC!! THE HELL WITH HER AND I'M A WOMAN!!!

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The "Hillary demographic" explained?
Posted by: westomoon on Jun 14, 2008 6:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why Is Mom in Rehab?

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Loyalty
Posted by: rickiey on Jun 16, 2008 9:10 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Clinton, therefore, must choose between two loyalties: party and self

She has no party loyalty, or she wouldn't have been in the race after it was over.

Self loyalty? Of that she has plenty.

Her campaign is STILL sending out emails, and her "I'm endorseing Obama" speech was the most half-hearted thing I've seen since a movie critic friend of Ben Affleck referred to the movie Gigli as a "a substantial way to spend a rainy afternoon, with engaging company".

Lets be honest her, shall we? If Obama wins, Hillary loses. Her last shot at the presidency is 2012, and if Obama wins the Presidency this year, that shot goes away. Hence her now campaigning for the vice presidency (classlessly).

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taibbi
Posted by: voxy on Jun 17, 2008 12:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
one wonders what taibbi has invested here because ROLLING STONE was all about barry.
hmmmm.
And, hate to break it to you but obama MADE ME pro-hillary.
All by himself.
She still has lo the many supporters so hey, it's NOT all about her.
Every rule IN THE BOOK had to be changed so that oprah could get her man into the whitehouse.
She wasn't happy with just telling the world what and when to read.
And, that's the truth.
And we all know it.

Check out PUMA

Party Unity MY A**.

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» RE: taibbi Posted by: rickiey