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Election 2008

Hillary Revealed That Women Can Be Nasty, Deceptive Candidates Too

By Barbara Ehrenreich, Barbaraehrenreich.com. Posted May 17, 2008.


Hillary Clinton smashed the myth of innate female moral superiority in the worst possible way -- by demonstrating female moral inferiority.
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In last Friday's New York Times, Susan Faludi rejoiced over Hillary Clinton's destruction of the myth of female prissiness and innate moral superiority, hailing Clinton's "no-holds-barred pugnacity" and her media reputation as "nasty" and "ruthless." Future female presidential candidates will owe a lot to the race of 2008, Faludi wrote, "when Hillary Clinton broke through the glass floor and got down with the boys."

I share Faludi's glee -- up to a point. Surely no one will ever dare argue that women lack the temperament for political combat. But by running a racially-tinged campaign, lying about her foreign policy experience, and repeatedly seeming to favor McCain over her Democratic opponent, Clinton didn't just break through the "glass floor," she set a new low for floors in general, and would, if she could have got within arm's reach, have rubbed the broken glass into Obama's face.

A mere decade ago Francis Fukuyama fretted in Foreign Affairs that the world was too dangerous for the West to be entrusted to graying female leaders, whose aversion to violence was, as he established with numerous examples from chimpanzee society, "rooted in biology." The counter-example of Margaret Thatcher, perhaps the first of head of state to start a war for the sole purpose of pumping up her approval ratings, led him to concede that "biology is not destiny." But it was still a good reason to vote for a prehistoric-style club-wielding male.

Not to worry though, Francis. Far from being the stereotypical feminist-pacifist of your imagination, the woman to get closest to the Oval Office has promised to "obliterate" the toddlers of Tehran -- along, of course, with the bomb-builders and Hezbollah supporters. Earlier on, Clinton foreswore even talking to presumptive bad guys, although women are supposed to be the talk addicts of the species. Watch out -- was her distinctly unladylike message to Hugo Chavez, Kim Jong-Il, and the rest of them -- or I'll rip you a new one.

There's a reason why it's been so easy for men to overlook women's capacity for aggression. As every student of Women's Studies 101 knows, what's called aggression in men is usually trivialized as "bitchiness" in women: Men get angry; women suffer from bouts of inexplicable, hormonally-driven, hostility. So give Clinton credit for defying the belittling stereotype: She's been visibly angry for months, if not decades, and it can't all have been PMS.
But did we really need another lesson in the female capacity for ruthless aggression? Any illusions I had about the innate moral superiority of women ended four years ago with Abu Ghraib. Recall that three out of the five prison guards prosecuted for the torture and sexual humiliation of prisoners were women. The prison was directed by a woman, Gen. Janis Karpinski, and the top U.S. intelligence officer in Iraq, who also was responsible for reviewing the status of detainees before their release, was Major Gen. Barbara Fast. Not to mention that the U.S. official ultimately responsible for managing the occupation of Iraq at the time was Condoleezza Rice.

Whatever violent and evil things men can do, women can do too, and if the capacity for cruelty is a criterion for leadership, as Fukuyama suggested, then Lynndie England should consider following up her stint in the brig with a run for the Senate.

It's important -- even kind of exhilarating -- for women to embrace their inner bitch, but the point should be to expand our sense of human possibility, not to enshrine aggression as a virtue. Women can behave like the warrior queen Boadicea, credited with slaughtering 70,000, many of them civilians, or like Margaret Thatcher, who attempted to dismantle the British welfare state. Men, for their part, are free to take as their role models the pacifist leaders Martin Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi. Biology conditions us in all kinds of ways we might not even be aware of yet. But virtue is always a choice.

Hillary Clinton smashed the myth of innate female moral superiority in the worst possible way -- by demonstrating female moral inferiority. We didn't really need her racial innuendos and free-floating bellicosity to establish that women aren't wimps. As a generation of young feminists realizes, the values once thought to be uniquely and genetically female -- such as compassion and an aversion to violence -- can be found in either sex, and sometimes it's a man who best upholds them.

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See more stories tagged with: sex, gender, hillary clinton

Barbara Ehrenreich is the author of thirteen books, including the New York Times bestseller Nickel and Dimed. A frequent contributor to the New York Times, Harpers, and the Progressive, she is a contributing writer to Time magazine. She lives in Florida.

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wrensis
Posted by: wrensis on May 17, 2008 12:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Was this intended to be helpful or you just had a bad day and felt the need to pillory somebody you felt superior to. Senator Clinton has handled the campaigns misogyny with grace and courage and style. Having lived where she was my Senator I can personnally speak to her effective treatment and concerns for the people in New York. She was responsive, attentive and solved many a problem for familys who would have been much worse off for not having had her attention.

I hope you enjoyed venting your speen.Perhaps tommorw you will find a happy spot and write some thing that is actually useful

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» RE: Disagree Posted by: Sissy
» RE: Disagree Posted by: Tombo
» RE: Disagree Posted by: Sissy
» RE: Disagree Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Disagree Posted by: topbrick
» RE: Agree/Disagree Posted by: giles
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» RE: wrensis Posted by: Lauren
» WHO is NOT at the table? Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: WHO is NOT at the table? Posted by: desidid
» adrienne4dean Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: adrienne4dean Posted by: Lauren
» RE: wrensis Posted by: marie.vorrath
» RE: wrensis Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: wrensis Posted by: marie.vorrath
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» RE: wrensis Posted by: Lauren
» RE: wrensis Posted by: Lauren
» and those 20,000 Upstate New York Jobs Posted by: TheJibreelaMonsters
» RE: wrensis Posted by: Bobby Decker
» RE: wrensis Posted by: TheJibreelaMonsters
» RE: wrensis Posted by: Unbowed
» RE: Objectivity anyone? Posted by: Edward George
Hmmm...
Posted by: ~Fiona~ on May 17, 2008 2:37 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While I do not care for Ms. Clinton, or the tactics displayed during this election period I do not care for the generalization that her behaviors reflect kind of "everywoman" depictation she was represented to be in this article. Such sweeping generalizations reflect precisely what has happened to this country through media presentations.

I resent being exemplified by the actions of Ms. Clinton even on her best days because she does not reflect the sensabilities I know to be the nature of many of the other women I have grown to respect and value. Her stance reflects a "Winner takes all" and "The end justifies the means" atypical to most of the women I know in "real" life, but are more indicative of the criminally ruthless politician we have sadly come to expect of our governmental system.

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» RE: Hmmm... Posted by: EMB
I think I speak for young masculinists everywhere when we say
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on May 17, 2008 2:48 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"We could have told you that - you really should have met our mothers on a bad day." (Our mothers were really wonderful on other days, tho)

Yes - no particular granfalloon has a monopoly on crude, idiotic, insulting, manipulative, deceptive, dishonest, disruptive, suicidal, irrational, impulsive, nonsensical, corrupt, and confused behavior.

Umm... they knew that a long time ago, you know. Don't you remember good ol' Willie Horton? Or every other dirty last-minute campaign mailer you've ever seen - people hate those so much that now the opposing party is starting to send out fake last-minute attack ads in an effort to turn voters off.

So, maybe it was all a planned performance, you know? Maybe Clinton decided she would pre-empt the Republicans and fire all the possible dirt at once, just to clean the slate. People are also starting to see how ridiculous the press has become - the Stephanopolous-Gibson debate will go down as "worst ever" - the most blatant mainstream media political hackery seen anywhere in recent memory. So, maybe it was a conspiracy to put Obama through his paces and make the media look like the jackasses that they are - ha - not too likely!

As far as the whole gender issue goes, yes it still exists, as do many other human rights issues, and if everyone supports everyone else's basic human rights issues, generally there are few problems, but when they don't do that, people are divided and easily controlled by external forces, yup.

Let's contrast and compare two women: Condi Rice and Barbara Boxer. No gender issue here... anyone wanna try and turn it into a race issue? On one side you've got a silver tounged Rumsfeld/Schulz-trained smooth talker with a vicious streak a mile long who was a Chevron board member and had an oil tanker named after her; on the other you have a woman who served the people of her district loyally and faithfully time and time again - and yes, Barbara Boxer would clean Condi Rice's clock.

At some point, can we just agree to lump all gender issues under the human rights banner? Take a look at the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Is something missing?

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» Barbara Boxer for President! Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» Find a new hobby, 911Truthiness Troll. Posted by: thoughtcriminal
Entertainment at it's best!
Posted by: carbon-based on May 17, 2008 2:56 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
An aggressive women is called a bitch and an aggressive man is called a leader!!

Not a Hillary fan here by a long shot, but I've never seen anything that even hinted at racial attacks.. On the other hand, Obama, by way of Wright and Obama's wife has had a lot of explaining to do re racial issues.

The best damn reality TV show our there..The Obama/Hillary Wars.

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» RE: ntertainment at it's best! Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: ntertainment at it's best! Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: ntertainment at it's best! Posted by: carbon-based
Hillary?
Posted by: kepstein7777 on May 17, 2008 3:44 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I believe the first example of female aggression was Mrs. Grog who, upon noticing that her husband had tracked wooly mammoth fur all over the cave floor (AGAIN!!!), clocked him on the head with an old dinosaur bone.

I don't know who started the myth that all women are sugar and spice, but anybody who has ever had a mom, or a wife, or a girlfriend, or who was taught by nuns, or observed high-school politics would never give Hillary credit for shattering it.

Another silly article to kick off another round in the battle of the sexes. Let's try to keep it clean, and have fun out there.

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» RE: Hillary? Posted by: Sparks56
» Mrs. Grog? Posted by: DuChamp Fitz
» RE: Mrs. Grog? Posted by: Lauren
Hillary's problem
Posted by: pkricker on May 17, 2008 3:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I believe the problem with Clinton is not that she's a woman, or that she is a bitch or that she is aggressive. The problem is not even that she is overly ambitious. The problem is that her ambition is the ONLY reason she wants to be President. I don't believe she brings anything else to the table. I also think that her willingness to go so quickly to negative campaign strategies is indicative of a serious weakness in her political abilities. We need someone who can find positive solutions, and adopt the best ideas of others, not someone who can beat their opponents down. Sooner or later, one way or another, that always comes back around.

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» Nicely said Posted by: ~Fiona~
» RE: Hillary's problem Posted by: Sparks56
» Jimmy Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» RE: Jimmy Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: Jimmy - I want to add that Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: Unemployment stats Posted by: westomoon
» RE: Jimmy Posted by: bornxeyed
» Funny... Posted by: kepstein7777
» RE: Funny... Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Hillary's problem Posted by: sallythewally
» RE: Hillary's problem Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Hillary's problem Posted by: adrienne4dean
» RE: Hillary's problem Posted by: ibolyap
Low Floor?
Posted by: Sparks56 on May 17, 2008 4:04 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Clinton didn't just break through the 'glass floor,' she set a new low for floors in general..."
I'm sorry, sister. Hillary is nowhere near the "low floor" standard set by the Bush/Rove/Cheney political machine.
It is not racism to point out the racism of others. I work in construction; the bluest of blue collars. There are many white working class Americans who still cannot vote for a black man, (and a few who say if elected Obama should be shot). Hillary is not a racist for pointing out that this electoral reality could cost the Democrats the election.
Hillary Clinton wants to establish universal health care and to re-grow the American middle class. She is also the coniving, manipulating, rhinocerus-skinned political mechanic who can get it done.

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» RE: Low Floor? Posted by: Sissy
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» RE: Low Floor? Posted by: desidid
» RE: Low Floor? Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: Low Floor? Posted by: Sissy
» RE: Low Floor? Posted by: Lauren
» Cajones... Posted by: DuChamp Fitz
» RE: Cajones... Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: Cajones... Posted by: bittershaman
» RE: Low Floor? Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Low Floor? Posted by: Sissy
» RE: Low Floor? Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Low Floor? Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: Low Floor? Posted by: Sissy
» RE: Low Floor? Posted by: sirios
» When? Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: Low Floor? Posted by: ibolyap
» Thank You Posted by: Sparks56
Hillary did fail
Posted by: sheena2u on May 17, 2008 4:25 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think the article went a wee bit too far in making sweeping criticisms of Hillary and women, but the truth is that Hillary did fail to live up to a cleanly run campaign, and this was a lost opportunity and a disappointment to many.

For example, it was a disappointment to me. I supported Hillary until I heard her skip the issues and go straight for personal, inaccurate, and shocking attacks against Obama.

I was so put off by her lack of substance or ethics that I started to listen more intently to Senator Obama's message, and I soon realized it was Hillary that was found wanting, and not Senator Obama.

It is sad that Hillary, to a very great extent, failed to live up to common decency, to campaign ethics, to party teamwork, and to the truth. So, to an extent, the article makes good points. Hillary went too far in trying to appear tough. To bluster against Iran was not helpful to world peace, and to lie repeatedly was not a good policy. To play the race card, in the way she has, has been painful to watch.

I always admired the Clinton's and admired Hillary, but her behavior in this campaign has sullied her reputation and her character. If she were not a woman, and a former first lady, I believe there would be zero tolerance for her insistence on hanging on in this race, and she would be called a spoiler, a bad loser, and a bad team player.

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» RE: Hillary did not fail... Posted by: donnal
» RE: Hillary did not fail... Posted by: Lauren
» Shocking Attacks?! Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: Shocking Attacks?! Posted by: Sissy
» RE: Shocking Attacks?! Posted by: sheena2u
» RE: Shocking Attacks?! Posted by: sheena2u
Hitting just the right tone
Posted by: bucqui on May 17, 2008 4:45 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am surprised so many women still think Hillary can do no wrong. I guess it's the same cognitive dissonance that allows people who are struggling economically to vote Republican. Bill and Hillary, sadly, turned out to be Republican lite, willing to do (almost) anything to win. Remember that Bill's big claim to fame was not health-care reform but legislation that gutted welfare.

I blog for The Detroit News, and there I noted that Hillary has always been too much under the sway of the men around her. She was a Goldwater Girl to keep Daddy happy. She flirted with radicalization briefly in college, but then followed Bill to Arkansas, where she became a corporate lawyer currying favor with those who gave her cattle-trading tips.

I am no great believer in difference feminism either, but if Bill could be our first black president, then Obama has the chance to become our first female president. He embodies the principles and the ignity that I wish our first woman candidate with a chance to win had embraced.

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» RE: Gutting welfare ? Posted by: donnal
» RE: Blog responsibly? Posted by: sheena2u
Joanne
Posted by: jegnj on May 17, 2008 5:01 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Paleez! Yet another Hillary bashing article? Like Obama's campaign has returned to race time and time again with his fringe minister? Can the woman do nothing right?
I do have to day she is the only one of the 3 to mandate health insurance for all and if for no other reason I will vote for her in November as a write in. Obama does nothing for me.

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» RE: Joanne Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: Joanne Posted by: fratricide08
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» RE: Joanne Posted by: fratricide08
» RE: Joanne Posted by: sheena2u
» RE: Joanne Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: Joanne Posted by: deltadancer
» RE: Joanne Posted by: tigesgirl
Well duh dillweeds!
Posted by: Bobsays on May 17, 2008 5:01 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone who has worked with female bosses (and I have had many over the past twenty years) will know women are not possessed of special talents of empathy, intelligence or integrity. Here is a shocker: women are just men with a poonanny and breasts. They can be greedy, deceitful, stupid, and unreasonable just like men.

Only ever judge a person on their character and what they have done, not just what blah, blah they spout. That way you will not discriminate based on race, sex or ethnicity.

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» RE: Well duh dillweeds! Posted by: desidid
Mzunguhowru
Posted by: muzunguhowru on May 17, 2008 5:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh Ca Ca! Hillary has done no more and unfortunately no less than what any candidate desperate to gain advantage would do to gain advantage. In doing so her character has been revealed..thats what supposed to happen... We now now how much she wants to win and that nothing else matters to her. Not the country, not the party, not anything. It has nothing whatsoever to do with her genitals or her circulating hormones. In other words she has achieved true political equality. Equally feared, equally disingenuous,equally self absorbed, equally Machiavellian. Congratulations feminists You have arrived..

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» RE: Mzunguhowru Posted by: sallythewally
» RE: Mzunguhowru Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Mzunguhowru Posted by: sheena2u
» RE: Mzunguhowru Posted by: sheena2u
» RE: Mzunguhowru Posted by: Lauren
Even Stalin
Posted by: GPFrank on May 17, 2008 6:28 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
couldn't stand Ana Pauker, Communist leader of Rumania, the worst female butcher of modern times

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Queen Boadicea
Posted by: EKSwitaj on May 17, 2008 6:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Women can behave like the warrior queen Boadicea, who led a relatively successful anticolonial revolt after her daughters were raped

There. Fixed it for you.

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» RE: Queen Boadicea Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Queen Boadicea Posted by: sheena2u
I agree
Posted by: Frank J. Burris on May 17, 2008 6:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm very glad to see this sentiment expressed by Ms. Ehrenreich. I've noticed throughout this primary season some bizarre cognitive dissonance among Hillary supporters. On one hand there's the crowd that condemns George Bush as an arrogant cowboy for carrying out his foreign policy, but when Hillary Clinton embraces and promotes Bush's worst qualities, she's lauded as a strong woman. And then there's the other faction of supporters that insists that she's actually a dove that had to go along with the Bush agenda in order to establish her credentials as a viable leader. I find both of those mentalities baffling.

If humans excel at anything, it's convincing ourselves to believe what we know isn't true. Whether it's religion, relationships or politics, people very often willfully delude themselves into believing what makes them feel good to believe. This certainly appears to me to be what's happening with Hillary supporters.

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» RE: I agree - me too! Posted by: Moira61
Misses the Mark
Posted by: radical53 on May 17, 2008 7:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ms. Ehrenreich is one of the factors that has kept me and, probably, others from embracing the DSA as an alternative left-wing party.

I think Hillary had 2 major problems in this campaign (other than Barack Obama). The first problem was that she chose to go with the same campaign team as her husband and, therefore, bought into sleaze.

The other problem, which I think is more germane to the overbroad Ehrenreich article, is Hillary's image of herself as Little Miss Perfect. Hillary believes she has prepared perfectly for the presidency. She observed her husband's presidency closely and occasionally became directly involved in it. She could have run in 2004, but she chose to put a re-election and a longer Senate record on her resume (like JFK) to blunt arguments about her experience. Now she shows extreme frustration at Obama's success. She believes she is a better candidate in every way and it drives her nuts that he can do something she can't: deliver inspiring oratory. She has mocked him repeatedly for his oratory and for the broad themes he outlines. Hillary hasn't recognized his other qualities of speaking from the heart and his willingness to advance non-establishment, controversial ideas on policies and government. It must seem to her that some unseen force, perhaps race or charisma, is blinding America to her superiority.

If she really believed she was the superior candidate, she should have recruited her own team instead of the Bill Clinton team and run on her own. James Carville, Maggi Williams, Lanny Davis, Didi Myers, Lisa Caputo, etc., only looked like political geniuses because Bill Clinton was a great candidate who connected with people with his warmth, charisma, and, as it turned out, his overwhelming need to be loved. I wonder if Hillary will ever recognize and take responsibility for her mistake.

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marie in Tx
Posted by: marie.vorrath on May 17, 2008 7:32 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Barbara Ehrenreich just proved that some women, herself, is deceptive and nasty. See, just saying I don't care for Hillary dosen't get her published.

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» RE: marie in Tx Posted by: 23skidoo
Bizarre Article.
Posted by: Verjenie on May 17, 2008 7:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To the author:
I have loved your writing. In the past. What world do you live in where women are considered morally superior? Is that the same as having someone on a pedestal. That uncomfortable spot, holding a lamp, 3 inches of room to move on either side. I think pedestals and gutters have a lot in common. Neither is where a full human being wants to be.
Women aren't dainty, aren't she-wolves, aren't ALL THE SAME. Also what should be explored is how many gentle snide attacks Huillary took at the start, to set the tone: She aint honest, ahe aint real. That gives the ok to see evrything she does as either She's a machine, She's lacking in compassion. I'm so sick of people going for simplistic explanations. Basically Hillary was slow on her comeback, had very little web savvy, took cheap shots on Ayres, had the right, left, center media against her (politically DUMB, sometimes, unable to pander, there) but otherwise has the fire in the belly, probabaly sees her self as doing what she can to change the world, and still has many black educated supporters even though she was used to anger the black vote, drive a wedge between her and her original support. There have been many female leader throughout history ( Angela Davis, Catherine the great (who was brilliant, as opposed to just liked Horses), Elizabeth 1, Indira Ghandi, Golda Meir, Emma Goldman, Soujourner Truth, Isis, etc etc etc, 100s, and no one I know has ever thought they were angels, or didn't have ALL THEIR AMNY SIDES & DIMENSIONS, as in they weren't cartoons, stereotypes, thin soup.

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» RE: Bizarre Article. Posted by: beaubeau
» RE: Bizarre Article. Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Bizarre Article. Posted by: sheena2u
Ms.
Posted by: AngryGranny on May 17, 2008 8:03 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Et tu, Barbara! As if FL doesn't have enough problems this election--you decide to bash Hillary along with all the vapid talking heads! We are finding out the legions of misogynists who are in high anxiety at the prospect of a WOMAN president, and shame on you all! This is a CONTEST folks, a highly competetitive one with the highest stakes with million$ being spent to prevail! If Hillary offends you for expending 100% of her energy and resources to beat Obama, then you need to thicken up your dainty skin! And when she states the obvious about race relations in the US and how they will play out in each state's primary, doing so DOES NOT make her a racist! We are in a dead heat, it's exciting and at least 50% of the Dems (I am one) know in their bones that she will hands down be the best choice to lead our country out of the Bush quagmire! We, and there are millions of us--you know, the base of the Democratic party--have options: Cynthia McKinney is the Green party candidate, Ralph Nader, Ron Paul, etc. My vote goes to Cynthia if Hillary doesn't get the nomination that she has earned! And to hell with party unity!

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» Hey Granny... Posted by: Moira61
» RE: Skysage Posted by: Skysage
» RE: Ms. Posted by: beaubeau
» RE: Hey AngryGranny Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Shameful Granny Posted by: sheena2u
Hillary's Downfall
Posted by: opmoc on May 17, 2008 8:06 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Warning this video contains strong language

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6Lstkiexhc

linked video

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Through the Looking Glass
Posted by: BayAreaVoter on May 17, 2008 8:11 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I used to look at Republicans and wonder how we could see the world through completely different lenses.

Now, with great sadness, I feel the same way about Obama supporters. You can't support your candidate without tearing down Hillary. The race baiting in this campaign began after NH when Obama's team realized he had to pry the AA vote away from Hillary and they released a 4-pg memo detailing how to do it. Then the fatuous charges began.

Hillary it tough. But when it comes from a woman; oh my, it just isn't acceptable. Hillary is not perfect; her supporters don't expect to vote for a new messiah but please, your charges are ridiculous, petty and biased.

Women Hillary-bashers like you, Huffington, van den Heuvel, etc really should go into some deep therapy. It does seem somewhat pathological.

Articles like this, not Hillary's behavior, set women back a hundred years.

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» RE: Through the Looking Glass Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Through the Looking Glass Posted by: beaubeau
» RE: Through the Looking Glass Posted by: beaubeau
» Traitorous self hating misogynist Posted by: Itsthewater
» RE: Through the Glass Darkly Posted by: sheena2u
Fabienne
Posted by: Fabienne on May 17, 2008 8:18 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I, too, have been very disappointed in the first woman who actually had a shot at being President of this country. As a 61-year-old white woman, I was part of the feminist movement in the sixties, but what I had hoped from it was that attributes normally associated with women, whether rightly or wrongly, such as compassion, cooperation, nurturing, would be brought into the spheres of power, thus changing the patriarchy forever. Instead, many women with power embraced the harder attributes. Senator Obama, though far from perfect as he is a member of a corrupt system beholden to the military and corporations, far more embodies the traditional "feminine" attributes than does Senator Clinton and thus has more chance of changing the mindset of this country than does she.

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Barbara is Proof of her own Pudding
Posted by: Ellensnortland on May 17, 2008 8:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow. Ehrenreich is so off base, it's astounding. Who runs around touting women's superiority? B.E. is proof that women are clearly as capable of being vicious blowhards, blind and stupid as any male. And what does that all mean? We are just humans, female and male, capable of anything and everything, including Ehrenreich. It's amazing that B.E. takes such a superior tone and doesn't realize she's doing what she so soundly criticizes.

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Gender has nothing to do with it.
Posted by: HughScott on May 17, 2008 8:43 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As much as I respect Barbara Ehrenreich and enjoy reading her articles, I have to disagree with this one.

Hillary's problem is her arrogant elitism which has nothing to do with gender.

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shameonyou
Posted by: megawo on May 17, 2008 10:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If a man is aggressive, he is dynamic, a leader, forceful. If a woman behaves in the same manner, she is a bitch. This article was written for no reason except to discredit Ms. Clinton in the same manner as Rush Limbaugh. In the future, try more subtle journalism to support your candidate. I am unsubscribing to this hate mail.

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Women can be nasty and deceptive..?
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on May 17, 2008 10:34 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Women can be nasty and deceptive maybe even a little vindictive..


Who knew..? ;-)

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» RE: Women can be nasty and deceptive..? Posted by: TJ-stars4peace
MISSING THE WHOLE POINT
Posted by: edgeofnowhere on May 17, 2008 10:58 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem with the candidacy of both Hillary and Obama is that they ignore the real issues that confront what remains of American democracy today: the war and the military culture with its grossly inflated expenditures, the rule by lobbyist that has gutted real democratic representation, a death-spiraling economy based on printing more paper, and the broken social contract that government is supposed to have with its citizens.

Dennis Kucinich, Ron Paul and others spoke of these issues, but were marginalized by the media and the Democratic party leaders. Had Clinton or Obama actually had the guts to speak truth to power, we might have listened more intently. But no, just more of the same BS. The Democratic convention should be interesting, but in the end it will be more of the same bad driving, different bus, whether the driver is male or female.

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» RE: MISSING THE WHOLE POINT Posted by: Lauren
THANKS BARBARA!!
Posted by: beaubeau on May 17, 2008 1:16 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IT'S NICE TO KNOW NOT ALL 'FEMINISTS, HAVE LOST THEIR MINDS. HILLARY, BEHAVING AS LORLENE WALLACE, WAS NOT A SURPRISE. WHAT WAS A SURPRISE, NOT ONE FEMALE OF ANY SIGNIFICANCE CALLED HER ON IT!! I GUESS I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE THAT SURPRISED -THAT'S ONE REASON OVER THE DECADES, THERE AREN'T A LOT OF BLACK WOMEN; WHO ARE ARDENTLY FEMINISTS!! THEN AGAIN, BLACK WOMEN, HAVE BEEN TOUGH, SINCE SLAVERY!!!

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» RE: THANKS BARBARA!! Posted by: Lauren
» Right on! Posted by: Kym525
RN
Posted by: mnatra on May 17, 2008 3:43 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can any woman be as bad as G Bush?He has bankrupted the country, invaded a sovereign nation, created a police state and destroyed our economy....It is absurd to even think that Hilary would be any worse. Maybe one step worse than George man or woman, could be someone who would push the button! What is left to destroy?

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» RE: N Posted by: Lauren
» RE: "Totally Obliterate Iran"???? Posted by: Purple Girl
Who are the worst - the men or the women?
Posted by: gabbyone on May 17, 2008 5:32 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't decide which is this worst in
this campaign...the quarterbacking misogyny of men or the bitchiness of women who can"t allow another woman to be successful without finding a way to tear her down. Both of these behaviors are at the heart of why we still have so few women at the top levels of executive management or government.

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OMG MISOGYNY!
Posted by: Q30 on May 17, 2008 6:08 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hasn't anyone learned the lesson? Failure to support Hillary is no different from hating all women.

And simply saying "I just didn't like THIS PARTICULAR woman" in no way gets you off the hook, sexists!

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» RE: OMG MISOGYNY! Posted by: Lauren
» RE: OMG MISOGYNY! Posted by: emmas
» RE: OMG MISOGYNY! Posted by: desidid
Quit Eating Your Own, We Must Unite to Defeat the Forces of Darkness!
Posted by: sofla100 on May 17, 2008 6:29 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look, so Hillary acted like a man and in doing so, perhaps made an exaggerated comment or two towards Obama. As for being racist, come on, what exactly did she say that was really "racist"? Now, if Obama cannot handle some minor jabs from Hillary, how is going to stand up to the Republican thugs, especially when they bring out the Kerry type Swift Boating goons? How is he going to stand up to Coulter and Limbaugh? As for racism, these clowns have no problem making mistakes with Obama's name (ie, Osama instead of Obama) or telling stories about the old days of "Darkies in the South." We know what they are capable of. So, here somebody is needing to bash worn and tired out Hillary. As if kickiing a dead horse is going to help Obama. It's time now for the Dems to unify to confront the nemises of a possible McCain Presidency, to confront war without end in the Middle East, to confront more tax breaks for the rich and even more "outsourcing." We have to confront this clown who will have his fingers on the nuclear button while his mental capacity deteriorates. So, you think it's better just to kick Hillary around because she never cared for baking cookies? I don't think so. We have much more serious things to worry about and we must unite. Otherwise, the forces of darkness will continue to spread across America and the World.

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» RE: "Totally Obliterate Iran" Posted by: Purple Girl
Women in an office setting...
Posted by: Purple Girl on May 17, 2008 6:38 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've worked in jobs dominated by men and some with the majority woman. Although the type of work seeems to be the Best indicator as to the level of Crap ,I find men's crap usually alittle easier to stomach ( and predict). I know it is 'blaspheny ' fo rme to say but giove me the Boys any day and in any arena!
A group of Women in an office setting is like the Gladiator free for all. Frankly I call it the 'Estrogen Hotbath' ( don't try this one boys You'll get your headl loped off)- Being female and one who does not cow down to female Self Righteousness can wade in without much concern- and yes ladies I've said it to their faces- in a group, directly referring to them, not one Dared Refute this Fact!In other situations th ewater is fine- Horse industry , Long term care, food Service, Child care...But there is something about office work tha tbrings out the very worst in women- no matter the status. I've boiled the problem to 1) too close of Proximity 2) unrealistic competion and male accolades 3)Too much time & energy on their hands. The horse industry female workers are not crowded together, they stopped giving a sh*t about the Boys ( because the boys have had to eat crow a few times for their sexist attitudes and Frnakly we are too busy and Too tired to waste our energy on unnecessary competitveness and counter productive Catiness.Yes ladies some of Your Sh*t does stink!

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Gosh, Barbara
Posted by: elaine46 on May 17, 2008 7:42 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Obama's Jay-Z routine where he gave Hillary the finger, twisted the knife, brushed the dirt off his shoulder and scraped the sh*t off his shoe wasn't an example of nastiness, I don't know what is. The level of woman-hatred, especially coming from liberal, iconic women such as yourself really pisses me off. If I recall, you venomously campaigned against Al Gore in 2000, so I have little respect for your judgement in choosing candidates.

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» RE: Gosh, Barbara Posted by: desidid
» RE: Gosh, Barbara Posted by: sheena2u
Missing the point?
Posted by: westomoon on May 17, 2008 9:05 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A lot of comments here seem to have missed the fact that Ehrenreich's article was a response to Susan Faludi's recent article in the NY Times, titled The Fight Stuff.

It's an interesting piece -- you might want to read it, instead of condemning Barbara Ehrenreich to eternal damnation for what Susan Faludi said.

Faludi coined the term "glass floor" as a flip of the "glass ceiling" term used to describe the limits on women's achievements, and her general thesis is that Hillary may have transformed male voters' attitude toward strong women candidates by being willing to get down and dirty. Hers is not an anti-Hillary article.

Ehrenreich is responding to Faludi, saying that yes, it is exhilarating to see a woman breaking the stereotype, but that Hillary has gone overboard. It's two long-time feminist writers discussing a feminist issue.

It's one thing to hash over the same issues again and again on these comment boards, but couldn't we at least read the articles we're supposed to be commenting on?

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» RE: Missing the point? Posted by: desidid
» RE: Missing the point? Posted by: sheena2u
» RE: Missing the point? Posted by: westomoon
We are not the tolerant nation that we pretend to be..
Posted by: aamer923 on May 17, 2008 9:10 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do not wantto see a black or a woman pres before I die. Iwant to see mature people who vote not just their gender or race or religion. I thought we are supposed to be a mature democracy here.
A woman does not betray anything by supporting Obama
A black man does not betray anything by supporting Hillary
We are not as tolerant as wee pretend to be.
Romney lost mainly due to his religion, barack's biggest problem is his color, hillary's her gender.

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Time to change the subject
Posted by: VLB on May 17, 2008 11:52 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Enough of your rants about Senator Clinton. Our country is in dire straits and you have an audience that you can affect. Use your words constructively, speak about the real issues that can make a difference in our lives. Stop distracting with your opinionated opinions(I like the way that sounds and I'll use it if I want to!). Help to make a difference where it really counts.

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Errr.
Posted by: daniel1982 on May 18, 2008 4:33 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
>Hillary Clinton smashed the myth of innate female moral superiority

Who believed it in the first place? Ridiculous.

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» RE: rrr. Posted by: sheena2u
» RE: rrr. Posted by: ravi
I can't figure out
Posted by: lb on May 18, 2008 5:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
whether Hillary or her gender is the lightning rod. I have spent hours reading "discussions" like this one. All it takes to start one is for someone to make a statement about HRC. Then everyone lines up on opposite sides of the debate and starts firing. And it gets very nasty, very quickly.
While I think some people disagree with Senator Clinton's platform, the intensity of the hatred toward her continues to distress and amaze me. I suspect it reflects a deep and often unrecognized current of misogyny in our country. Just as it is premature to announce "racism" has ended, I think it is also true of misogyny. While woman have made great strides in politics, they still don't hold half or even a third of the elected offices. We are a long way from a woman President I fear.

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» RE: I can't figure out Posted by: desidid
» RE: It is not misogyny Posted by: sheena2u
» RE: I can't figure out Posted by: westomoon
Heckled and Slimed
Posted by: ravi on May 18, 2008 11:52 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So we have Ehrenreich once again attempting to dress her arbitrary preference for Obama in an ill-reasoned attack on Hillary. There are a lot of reasons to reject Clinton's candidacy, but the problem for such intellectuals is that almost all of those reasons ably apply for Obama as well (hence Ehrenreich's first attempt, a while ago, to support Obama with a "change for its own sake" argument). So, Hillary's silly story about Bosnia becomes a damnable lie, in Ehrenreich's (and Maureen Down and every other self-proclaimed feminist opponent of Hillary's) defensive arguments that equate "fall guys" like Karpinski and England, the ones who were punished, to the perpetrators of the crimes, Rumsfeld and Bush, who remain unpunished.

A whopping 87% of violent crime (as of 2000) committed by the male of the species? Comparable, in Ehrenreich's analysis, to "women's capacity for aggression", trivialised as "bitchiness" -- the "inexplicable, hormonally-driven, hostility". Not that different from rape and murder, 87% of which is accounted for by men. The counter-examples of Thatcher and Clinton, the reasoning goes, nullify such silly statistics.

Supporters of Hillary (and I am not one of them) are told that they should not be supporting her "merely" because she is a woman. That would be foolish, it seems. Is one to prefer then the all-out delusion that is the stock of those who equate Obama to Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King as a man "who best upholds" virtues?

Such writings of women like Ehrenreich and Dowd are a mlder form of the betrayal of feminism that are the actions of Rice or Allbright. Few (among feminists) have the goal of elevating woman as an ideal. The goal has always been to defend her against such unfairness as Ehrenreich's singling out of England and Karpinski or her presentation of Clinton as an aggressive bitch in comparison to the virtuous persona of Obama.

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» RE: Heckled and Slimed Posted by: sheena2u
» RE: Heckled and Slimed Posted by: ravi
» RE: Heckled and Slimed Posted by: sheena2u
Is this really news?
Posted by: Asses of Evil on May 18, 2008 3:16 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone who alleges that they are a feminist should know that women can be as tough as any man. To be a woman (I'm not one), you have to survive and tolerate all kinds of b.s. from men so it's not surprising women are really super tough. Yeah, I guess supposedly it's important to be a feminist to recognize women can do anything men can do, but really, to me, this ain't news. And really, affirming the beliefs of idiots like Fukuyama and dinosaurs should not be particularly important.

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ramster7
Posted by: ramster1 on May 18, 2008 8:09 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hillary Clinton has been the victim of ceaseless media assaults since the campaign began. When one of her volunteers in Iowa asked a softball question, this was immediately jumped on by the press as an example of Sen Clinton's deviousness, although she had no role in the aide's decision. Two weeks later, an Obama aide in Iowa put on a Press badge, sat in the Press Section, and asked Obama a softball question. According to ABC News, the press decided this was a non-story and it received no national attention.
I agree that Hillary was wrong on her Bosnia story, but last year Obama was telling audiences that J.F.Kennedy paid for his father to come to the US and that Obama's parents first met on a civil rights march which took place two years after he was born. Neither story was true. But the press has shown little interest in fact-checking Sen. Obama.

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Hillary Lost It
Posted by: bessie on May 18, 2008 9:55 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hillary lost the nomination at least a month ago. Since that time, she has demonstrated a total lack of fairness or honesty or grace. When did she lose it personally? Only those who know her, can answer that question. Did her behavior become erratic during the Monica-White House years, before, or during this campaign? I also thought of Hillary as our Eleanor Roosevelt until her odd behavior in regards to Iraq, flag burning, and video games. She no longer sounded like a progressive or even a moderate. Her other comments about 'obliterating' Iran and dodging sniper fire in Bosnia were just bizarre. The problems with her campaign aren't based on her gender so much as her inability to deliver a believable message and to maintain a coherent image. Some might want to think that strength equates to being nasty, snide, and rude but being truly tough requires an emotional and intellectual control that Hillary failed to maintain.

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Hilary is a part of the "old boys club"
Posted by: Kym525 on May 19, 2008 4:28 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am an Obama supporter, but I have been dismayed but not surprised at the level of misogyny Hilary Clinton has had to deal with in this campaign. Unlike many here however who somehow live in some glass house, the fear of powerful women is nothing new and frankly, Hilary should have not only expected it, but dealt with it head on instead of incessantly whining about it. I find it telling that Obama has never made a big deal about his being (part) black--but everyone else in the world has. Could you imagine the bruhaha had Obama said something to the effect of "vote for the black guy because of 200 years of historical oppression"?

My problem with Hilary is that she's a part of the "old boys club", which is to say she's a product of the right-wing attack machine that damn-near destroyed her and her husband Bill. Hilary came from a position where she was determined not to get steamrolled like that ever again, at the expense of her integrity and self-respect. I would have thought someone who survived the worst of Karl Rove's depredations would have decided then and there not to utilize the same tactics. Hilary had the chance to side with Obama and keep the media's attention (and much of the general public's) on the ISSUES rather than character assassination. She had the chance to be a true agent of change and she blew it.

By the way, I've found that a lot of so-called feminists have also screwed up by constantly playing oppression olympics--a tactic guaranteed to destoy any chance of bridge building between mainstream white feminism and us feminists of color.

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Hillary Has Lost Her Cookies Now
Posted by: desidid on May 19, 2008 7:10 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
what kind of Democrats want a candidate who trumpets what Karl Rove has to say?

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Ehrenreich Article
Posted by: mhayden on May 20, 2008 6:35 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I appreciated the thrust of this article which seemed more concerned with truths and reality. There are enduring truths of good governance and of the characteristics of leaders who provide it. An individual (whoever they are) who glibly lies about what is essentially unimportant even to their own interests should not be the type of leader we aspire to have. I commend Ms. Ehrenreich for the courage to express truths that are mostly undesirable to partisans who fail to realize that hope lies only in a return to the (constitutional) principles which this nation came into existence to demonstrate - not in the victory of their champion.

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Ehrenreich Article
Posted by: mhayden on May 20, 2008 6:36 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I appreciated the thrust of this article which seemed more concerned with truths and reality. There are enduring truths of good governance and of the characteristics of leaders who provide it. An individual (whoever they are) who glibly lies about what is essentially unimportant even to their own interests should not be the type of leader we aspire to have. I commend Ms. Ehrenreich for the courage to express truths that are mostly undesirable to partisans who fail to realize that hope lies only in a return to the (constitutional) principles which this nation came into existence to demonstrate - not in the victory of their champion.

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Clinton on Crack
Posted by: Pennyhead on May 20, 2008 12:49 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Clinton on Crack
May 19, 2008, 3:17 pm
Posted by quimby in Election2008

YourThreeCents.com

Hillary Clinton proved once and again that she is a liar, or just severely mathematically challenged. She told a huge crowd in Kentucky that she had not only won more popular votes than Obama but won states totaling far more electoral votes. “The states I have won total 300 electoral votes,” she stated. How did she come to this conclusion? She discounted his victories in caucus states and those likely to be Republican in November. She came to the assumption that these states typically have a low voter turnout.


She also went on to say that “More people have voted for me than my opponent.”


She stated this without coming up with a logical explanation of how she came to this conclusion. She also said “more people have voted for me than anybody who’s ever run for president before.” WHAT? She is tooting her own horn but with fallacies, falsehoods, fabrications, lies!

Does she not think people read the news or have any idea what is going on? Oh Hillary, you just keep making it easier and easier.


Comments
Posted by Kozlo
on May 19, 2008, 4:28 pm

I hope Hillary takes her fight for the nomination all the way to the Convention in Colorado. She has more experience than the novice Hussein Obama. She will not run from the Iranian threat like the pacifist Obama will. She has more character than the radical, America Hater, Terrorist Lover Obama.
Vote Hillary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Posted by WALTON
on May 19, 2008, 7:43 pm

what? obama wants to take initiative and do talks with iran. maybe you are on crack.


Posted by graybear
on May 19, 2008, 6:30 pm

Kozlo,
Is this an interesting turn of events?

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Hillary's done. Say goodbye.
Posted by: pangolin on May 21, 2008 10:06 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the unlikely chance that Obama is hit by a meteor then Hillary might stand a chance against John McCain; if he has a stroke before November and starts drooling on himself.

Otherwise....

She's done. She cannot mathematically win the nomination and Obama would be an idiot to put her in the White House in any capacity. He'd have to live on MREs chosen at random from several shipping containers and wear a bomb disposal suit at all times. Hillary as VP is as good as suicide.

The people who came out in droves to vote for the first time for Barak Obama are not going to vote for sHillary (just me and McCain) Clinton. Not going to happen.

It's time she took a long vacation in the Hamptons and regained touch with reality. Maybe do some net surfing and see what the real world is doing. It would do her good to haul out a 6th grade math primer and maybe a Girl Scout Handbook also. Do some basic reading on ethics. Really, really basic.

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Selectively Combative
Posted by: Polenium on May 28, 2008 7:19 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hillary's tactics might be excused if she were focusing them on the lying, cheating scumbags in the GOP. As you stated in your article she doesn't.
She sidles up to these low lifes like a cat waiting for dinner.
I am as horrified at having her as president as I am at having the senile John McCain shoved down our collective throats.

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