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Election 2008

Hillary's Plan to Win Relies on Improbable Finale at DNC Convention

By Steven Rosenfeld, AlterNet. Posted April 21, 2008.


Hillary's backers say they will try to convince Obama delegates to switch at the Democratic Convention.
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There are two ways Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) can win the Democratic nomination.

Most of the national press and pundits say she has to win by 20 percent or more in Pennsylvania's Primary on Tuesday and keep beating Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) by that margin to get enough delegates to become the nominee.

Or there is another scenario that has not been on the political radar but was raised by several well-connected supporters at her rally in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania on Sunday: she could go into a deadlocked convention and persuade just enough Obama delegates to switch and vote for her.

"Are you a student of history," said Pennsylvania State Rep. Richard T. Grucela, who represents the 137th state assembly district, when asked how Clinton could win the nomination when Obama is now leading by 139 delegates before Tuesday's Primary. "If they are deadlocked on the first ballot, the delegates will be released from their pledges on later votes."

Grucela turned to another party member, on the state Democratic Party's credentials committee, who said the same thing: if neither candidate gets enough delegates to win in the first floor vote at the Democratic National Convention, then every delegate would be free to vote for anyone -- not bound by their state's vote.

"The Hillary camp really believes they can convince everybody that she is the best candidate to face McCain -- and she is," said Scott Plavner, a Philadelphia banker and longtime Democratic donor, speaking of the strategy for the Denver convention in late August.

Plavner not only said pledged delegates would be free to vote for whoever they wanted, but he said the Clinton campaign could offer carrots to would-be supporters from Obama's ranks, such as input into the party platform or other inducements. In past races, the nominee's campaign has often given key posts to their competitor's supporters as a way to head into a general election.

The bottom line, Plavner said, was Clinton had a strong case to make she was best able to beat Sen. John McCain, (R-AZ), the Republican nominee, because she has won most big state primaries. "She'll win those states. She'll win Arkansas. She will win Florida. That's the election," he said. "With Obama, he's won the red states."

Neither campaign returned phone calls or e-mails to comment on Monday.

However, the scenario of Clinton campaigning through the convention and then seeking to persuade just enough Obama delegates to join her is not theoretically impossible.

First, Sen. Clinton continues to say she has a path to victory.

On Sunday, she told The Philadelphia Inquirer, "I have carried the states that a Democrat must carry in order to win in November. If you look at the electoral map, anything is possible, but it is more likely that the coalition I have put together is the winning coalition."

Meanwhile, her senior staff keeps making the same claim although neither she nor they offer any details on the mechanics of such a victory.

"We think we are in a strong position to make the affirmative argument why we are the best nominee going forward," Deputy Spokesman Phil Singer said in a media conference call on Monday.

"The people who are more likely to be swing voters are the people who Sen. Obama has had great difficulty with -- white blue-collar voters -- non-college educated voters who move from one side of the aisle to the other," Chief Strategist Geoff Garin, said on the same call.

Singer said super-delegates -- the federal and state elected officials and luminaries comprising one-fifth of the voting delegates -- "are watching" Obama make mistakes and "down-ballot races" are being affected.

These comments obviously are intended to sow doubts about Obama in the media, but they also are to persuade reporters that the Democratic contest will continue -- although they omit saying exactly how Clinton will win.

Still, the delegate math -- from outside observers -- suggests the race could continue to Denver if neither candidate has the 2,024 delegates needed to win by the last primaries, in Montana and South Dakota on June 3.


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See more stories tagged with: hillary, election 2008, democratic national conve

Steven Rosenfeld is a senior fellow at Alternet.org and co-author of "What Happened in Ohio: A Documentary Record of Theft and Fraud in the 2004 Election," with Bob Fitrakis and Harvey Wasserman (The New Press, 2006).

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My bedtime prayer
Posted by: foreverhope on Apr 21, 2008 8:35 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now I lay me down to sleep

I pray the Lord my soul will keep.

If I should die before I wake

I pray Barack Obama wins PA State!


God bless Barack, Michelle and their family, please protect them. Bless Keith Olbermann, Jon Stewert and Stephen Colbert, thank you God for their brilliant truthiness. Please God bring comfort to our military families and protect our soldiers serving in combat, please bring them home soon. And God, please show Hillary and Bill Clinton the errors of their ways.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: My bedtime prayer Posted by: Xynyx
» lol! Why not pray? Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: My bedtime prayer Posted by: fluffmuffinmom
» RE: My bedtime prayer Posted by: Longdream
President Obama, if you please
Posted by: wanakee on Apr 21, 2008 10:36 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hillary confuses "toughness" with desperation.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Think About It
Posted by: jacksmith on Apr 21, 2008 11:15 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
DON'T BE DUPED !!!

Large numbers of Republicans have been voting for Barack Obama in the DEMOCRATIC primaries, and caucuses from early on. Because they feel he would be a weaker opponent against John McCain. With Hillary Clinton you are almost 100% certain to get quality, affordable universal health care very soon.

But first, all of you have to make certain that Hillary Clinton takes the democratic nomination and then the Whitehouse. NOW! is the time. THIS! is the moment you have all been working, and waiting for. You can do this America. “Carpe diem” (harvest the day).

I think Hillary Clinton see’s a beautiful world of plenty for all. She’s a woman, and a mother. And it’s time America. Do this for your-selves, and your children’s future. You will have to work together on this and be aggressive, relentless, and creative. Americans face an even worse catastrophe ahead than the one you are living through now.

You see, the medical and insurance industry mostly support the republicans with the money they ripped off from you. And they don’t want you to have quality, affordable universal health care. They want to be able to continue to rip you off, and kill you and your children by continuing to deny you life saving medical care that you have already paid for. So they can continue to make more immoral profits for them-selves.

Hillary Clinton has actually won by much larger margins than the vote totals showed. And lost by much smaller vote margins than the vote totals showed. Her delegate count is actually much higher than it shows. And higher than Obama’s. She also leads in the electoral college numbers that you must win to become President in the November national election. HILLARY CLINTON IS ALREADY THE TRUE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE!

As much as 30% of Obama's primary, and caucus votes are Republicans trying to choose the weakest democratic candidate for McCain to run against. These Republicans have been gaming the caucuses where it is easier to vote cheat. This is why Obama has not been able to win the BIG! states primaries. Even with Republican vote cheating help.

Hillary Clinton has been OUT MANNED! OUT GUNNED! and OUT SPENT! 4 and 5 to 1. Yet Obama has only been able to manage a very tenuous, and questionable tie with Hillary Clinton.

If Obama is the democratic nominee for the national election in November he will be slaughtered. Because the Republican vote cheating help will suddenly evaporate. All of this vote fraud and republican manipulation has made Obama falsely look like a much stronger candidate than he really is. YOUNG PEOPLE. DON’T BE DUPED! Think about it. You have the most to lose.

The democratic party needs to fix this outrage. Everyone needs to throw all your support to Hillary Clinton NOW! So you can end this outrage against YOU the voter, and against democracy.

The democratic party, and the super-delegates have a decision to make. Are the democrats, and the democratic party going to choose the DEMOCRATIC party nominee to fight for the American people. Or are the republicans going to choose the DEMOCRATIC party nominee through vote fraud, and gaming the DEMOCRATIC party primaries, and caucuses.

Fortunately the Clinton’s have been able to hold on against this fraudulent outrage with those repeated dramatic comebacks of Hillary Clinton’s. Only the Clinton’s are that resourceful, and strong. Hillary Clinton is your NOMINEE. They are the best I have ever seen.

“This is not a game” (Hillary Clinton)

Sincerely

jacksmith... Working Class :-)

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» RE: Think About It Posted by: cwilsondrum
» vomit Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: vomit Posted by: fluffmuffinmom
» RE: vomit Posted by: dronkenpiraat
» YOU Think About It! Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: YOU Think About It! Posted by: texshelters
» JackSmith is a troll . . . Posted by: Scientz
» Quite a trick Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Quite a trick Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: Paid for by Clinton '08 Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: Jackshit. Posted by: Longdream
Think about this
Posted by: foreverhope on Apr 22, 2008 8:07 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Senator Clinton has shown herself to be unworthy of the office that she seeks with the tactics that she employs.

Even if she gets the apportioned delegates from Florida and Michigan, and delegates from landslide victories in the remaining states, she STILL loses.

It's a special characteristic of the Clintons that they think that just because they are delusional, the rest of the world must think exactly the same way.

Do Clinton supporters realize that the reason she hasn't been booted out of the nomination process is because, well, she's a Clinton? It's not because she has a chance of winning. Deal with it.

None of this matters if Howard Dean and Nancy Pelosi do not address the upcoming fraud trial of the Clintons in California. Before anyone spends a dime, Sen Clinton should be called out and asked, at the very least, to disclose the appeal of this case. The next hearing date is April 24, just TWO DAYS AFTER the Pennsylvaia Primary, to SET A TRIAL DATE!

Did you donate to her campaign? Did you know that suit was out there? How do you feel about your donations going toward a campaign that COULD potentially end in another Clinton scandal?

Did you know that two of Rezko's co-defendants are contributors to the Clinton campaign?

BTW, by 1998 under the Clinton co-presidency, the GOP gained 48 seats in the House, 8 seats in the Senate, 11 governorships, and 1,254 seats in state legislatures, and that during their tenure, 439 (out of 1,998 Democrats) became Republicans as opposed to 3 Republicans who became Democrats.

PENNSYLVANIA MAY BE HILLARY COUNTRY BUT THE UNITED STATES IS OBAMA COUNTRY!

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Hillary Living in Wonderland About Big States
Posted by: dlauber on Apr 22, 2008 10:49 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm constantly astounded at the lack of analysis of Senator Clinton's assertion that she should be the nominee because she won the big states. She must be living in Wonderland along with Alice and the Mad Hatter.

Just think about the dynamics of the primary elections in the big states for a few minutes. In each of the big states she has won, Senator Clinton lost a 20+ point lead despite enjoying the support of the state's Democratic political machines while Senator Obama has had to build a campaign organization from the ground up. Illinois is the only big state in which the Democratic machine supported Senator Obama -- and he trounced Clinton by far wider margins than she has won the other large states.

Clinton has hung onto those huge states pretty much thanks to her greater name recognition (courtesy of Bill's Presidency) and support from the Democratic machines. Senator Obama's campaign simply cannot talk about the later factor because, as the nominee, he will need the support of those same machines.

I've run enough campaigns to have seen that the larger the jurisdiction, the greater the influence of the political establishment/machine. The Obama campaign has consistently shown that the better voters get to know Senator Obama, the more will vote for him. But the larger the state, the harder it is for all too many voters to get to know the independent candidate. That's why he has been able to completely overcome the machines in the smaller states, but not the larger ones.

It's hard to fathom the basis for Senator Clinton's claims that Senator Obama can't win those big states in November. What does she think will happen? All of her primary voters will switch to the arch-conservative McCain? Come on. Get real. The Clinton campaign is living in a fantasy land -- and getting away with it because the media seems incapable of actually analyzing her ridiculous claims.

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Today Bill Clinton played the race card -- AGAIN!
Posted by: HughScott on Apr 22, 2008 11:24 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This morning, without provocation or justification, without providing any facts whatsoever, Slick Willie accused Obama of playing the race card.

Barack's response: "I don't know what he's talking about."

One thing is certain. Hillary's womanizing sidekick is sending a loud-and-clear message to white male voters in both parties, incuding the KKK: "We can't let a black man become president."

Raised in the South (TX, LA, FL), I can smell the faintest whiff of bigoty. Trust me. Bill Clinton's stealth prejudice stinks to High Heaven!

Hugh E. Scott, Vietnam vet, ex-USAF pilot, lifelong registered Republican, ARDENT Obama supporter and the editor of www.PhonyFighterPilot.com, the only website about George W. Bush that presents irrefutable, smoking-gun proof of White House corruption.

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» Got to love that rating Posted by: improperly_sedated
WARNING to Alterneters: Beware of troll Jacksmith.
Posted by: HughScott on Apr 22, 2008 11:47 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I noticed today that three comments on this thread in support of Obama had been given a "1" rating.

When I gave "5" ratings to the comments, their numbers jumped to an average "3." That tells me Jacksmith has been assigning a "1" rating to anyone who favors Obama, regardless of the facts they present. So much for objectivity.

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» Beware of troll HughScott, as well. Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» Divided Democrats Posted by: fluffmuffinmom
It's obvious that Obama would draw more votes than Clinton.
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 22, 2008 11:58 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The real votes that Clinton would draw would be the Republican Clinton-haters, who would come out of the closet in large numbers to vote against her.

Clinton would probably go on some vendetta against her old enemies in the Republican party (she seems kind of vindictive now, doesn't she) and wouldn't be able to address any of the real problems as everything would be dragged down in partisan bickering.

Obama, on the other hand, draws tons of independents and first time voters, and would probably bring along many crossover Republicans who loathe John McCain.

I actually don't believe that Obama's policies would be too much different from Hillary's, but Obama seems like the one who would make Cabinet choices based on intelligence and ability, while with Clinton it's sure to be "reward your friends, punish your enemies."

We just can't put up with four more years of that kind of B.S.

I am actually worried, however, about PA's electronic voting systems and a stolen election rigged by Republican operatives at Diebold, Sequoia, and the other private corporations that control the voting system. I would be unsurprised to see an "unexpected last-minute Hillary bump" in PA - the Republicans are starting to get desperate.

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Senate seat
Posted by: rinpochet on Apr 22, 2008 12:37 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I doubt that after all this is over, she will be able to hold onto her Senate seat. She has shown that the fight is only about her winning and if she has to destroy the Democratic Party's chances in November, so be it. It is completely blind power and ugly to watch. This will be the Clinton legacy.

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Obama will win "democratic strongholds"
Posted by: texshelters on Apr 22, 2008 1:38 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The idea that Obama won't win in California or New York because he didn't win against Clinton is flat out wrong! Those states are democratic, no matter who runs, unless Clinton and the DLC sabatoges Obama. He has the money to get the message out about the real McCain, a McCain the country won't elect.

However, Obama has made inroads in swing states like Missouri and Kansas that he MIGHT win. Clinton won't win in these states.

Tex Shelters
myspace.com/texshelters

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A radical notion...
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 22, 2008 1:39 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By dragging Obama backwards and forwards through the mud, Hillary Clinton may very well have done him a big favor - she's already used up whatever ammunition that the Republicans have set aside for Obama in the fall.

However, if she wants to retain the respect and support of any Democrats at all, she will need to bow out in a day or two. She's made bad choices - and now she has a choice: bow out, or be forever pegged as a Republican in Democratic clothes.

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T-Shirts, T-Shirts
Posted by: douglashoyt on Apr 22, 2008 1:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where can I buy my "Paris Hilton for President" T-Shirt?

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Uh, huh.
Posted by: Longdream on Apr 22, 2008 8:41 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of the national press and pundits say she has to win by 20 percent or more in Pennsylvania's Primary on Tuesday and keep beating Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) by that margin to get enough delegates to become the nominee.

Well, so much for that.......next?


Or there is another scenario that has not been on the political radar but was raised by several well-connected supporters at her rally in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania on Sunday: she could go into a deadlocked convention and persuade just enough Obama delegates to switch and vote for her.

'LISTEN CAREFULLY. WE ARE HOLDING YOUR WIFE/CHILD/DOG/CAT IN A LOCATION IN THE MIDWEST. IF YOU WANT TO SEE YOUR BELOVED WIFE/CHILD/DOG/CAT AGAIN, PLEDGE YOUR VOTE TO HILLARY CLINTON BY PHONING THE NEW YORK TIMES......

If she's got a Plan C, I'll bet it's just as bad.

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Obama Win over McCain is pure Fantasy
Posted by: hotdog on Apr 23, 2008 8:11 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Only Hillary can win the swing voters in the swing states that will decide the election. The primary results prove it again and again.

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Now things get interesting
Posted by: Artkansas on Apr 24, 2008 3:10 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush isn't the only one who knows its not who votes that wins the election, but rather who counts the votes that wins the election.

Don't think that there isn't a trick that she won't try in her attempt to become President.

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President Adlai Stevenson?
Posted by: calmecac5 on Apr 24, 2008 8:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So Adlai won the 1952 nomination on the third ballot. The really important statistic is who won the general election in November, 1952. And 1956. So does Hillary intend to get the nomination but lose to McCain? What kind of insanity is that?

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Contact your superdelegates
Posted by: Jackdemocracy08 on Apr 30, 2008 4:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As Sen. Hillary Clinton has ‘managed’ to take the Pennsylvania state, the Democratic race for nomination is very much alive – and most likely to be decided by superdelegates. Nevertheless.. Indiana ,Idaho and West Virginia are still to come.

If you’re tired of waiting around for those super delegates to make a decision already, go to LobbyDelegates.com and push them to support Clinton or Obama

If you haven't done so yet, http://www.lobbydelegates.com enables you to do that. please write a message to each of your state's superdelegates

It takes a moment, but what's a few minutes now worth to get Obama in office?!

Sending a note to current Obama supporters lets them know it's appreciated, sending a note to current Clinton supporters can hopefully sway them to change their vote to Obama, and sending a note to the uncommitted folks will hopefully sway them to vote for Obama. It's that easy...

Clinton Supporters too …. !

It takes a moment, but what's a few minutes now worth to get Clinton in office?!

Sending a note to current Clinton supporters lets them know it's appreciated, sending a note to current Obama supporters can hopefully sway them to change their vote to Clinton, and sending a note to the uncommitted folks will hopefully sway them to vote for Clinton. It's that easy...

REALLY easy to identify the superdelegates and reach out to them! It includes a list of names, addresses, and affiliations of superdelegates from each state including your state

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Now that Super Delegates Matter Even More…
Posted by: KathyNicholas on May 6, 2008 3:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
LobbyDelegates.com Lets Ordinary Voices Be Heard

The unconstrained votes of some 800 top Democratic Party officials, known as Super Delegates, now matter even more following the Pennsylvania Primary, which continued to leave both Presidential candidates short of the 2,024 primary-pledged delegates needed to secure the nomination.

Those believing these Party insiders (who include governors, mayors, state and Congressional lawmakers) should be more accountable to rank-and-file Democrats, can now have their voices heard through www.LobbyDelegates.com. This one-stop portal is the first and only one empowering grassroots Democrats to directly communicate with their state’s Super Delegates – via email, fax or postal letters.

LobbyDelegates.com maintains lists of Super Delegates who have endorsed Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama or are still uncommitted. Users can, with one click, target all uncommitted Super Delegates and urge them to publicly endorse a certain candidate, or remain uncommitted. Users can similarly lobby Super Delegates to keep an existing commitment, or switch to the other candidate.

Although Sen. Obama leads with 1,490 pledged delegates to 1,336 for Sen. Clinton, neither would attain 2,024 even if one or the other won two-thirds of the remaining primary delegates. While Clinton leads among Super Delegates, 259 to 235, Obama has narrowed this gap steadily over the past six weeks. Over 300 Super Delegates remain uncommitted.

The LobbyDelegates.com website is strictly independent, and is not aligned with any political party, candidate, campaign or advocacy group. LobbyDelegates.com was created as a public service under the auspices of the nonprofit StateDemocracy Foundation, whose similar civic engagement website, www.StateDemocracy.com, is dedicated to delivering democracy to your desktop by connecting citizens and lawmakers.

Thousands have visited LobbyDelegates.com since it was launched on April 3. Since then, the website has been upgraded by adding a blog, the ability to invite friends, and free email delivery.

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