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Election 2008

Could Republicans Pick the Democratic Nominee?

By Wayne Barrett, Huffington Post. Posted April 3, 2008.


In both Michigan and Florida it was Republicans who fomented the move-up of primaries to dates out-of-line with the DNC calendar.
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Democratic National Committee chair Howard Dean came out of hiding last week to announce that there is no reason to rush to resolve the fate of Florida and Michigan. He said he was confident that these delegations, disqualified in 2007 by Dean's own Rules Committee, would be seated at the August convention -- but, apparently, only after a nominee is chosen, which he predicted would occur by July 1. This modern-day Metternich, whose two-fisted handling of this two-state controversy has already had more impact on the 2008 race than his candidacy did on the race in 2004, is promising to mediate the dispute once it's already settled.

The Dean plan is that these two swing states -- big enough to decide the nomination or general election -- will eventually be granted "virtual" seats at the convention because, as Dean imaginatively put it in an AP interview, "the campaigns believe that kind of deal is premature right now." Since one campaign (Hillary Clinton's) was amenable to redoes, even financing Michigan's, and the other campaign (Barack Obama's) opposed every feasible proposition, it is, in a strange way, true that the two sides weren't collectively ready for a deal.

In all the buzz about the media's pro-Obama tilt, its indifference to his resistance to including these states in the "actual" nominating process is its most disturbing favor, especially since this brand of "conventional politics," as Obama would put it, flies in the face of his contention that "the people" should pick the nominee. Obama's only proposal so far has been to split the delegates evenly, just like he and Michelle parcel out Christmas presents to their two daughters.

Of course, the column inches and moments of air time spent on how and why these two states and their 366 delegates have been banished adds up to less than the attention devoted to, say, the Wyoming caucus, where a 2,066-vote Obama margin gave him a big enough delegate boost to virtually cancel out Hillary Clinton's 329,000-vote margin in the five March races.

The body count that the mainstream media has regurgitated out of Florida and Michigan is that 2.3 million Democrats voted in primaries that broke the rules, leaving the DNC with no choice but to level both villages, even if the collateral damage might include the party's prospects of carrying those disenfranchised states in November. The DNC and the MSM appear to have simultaneously concluded that even Clinton's 300,000-vote win in Florida, where both candidates competed on a level playing field, shouldn't be counted in the popular vote tally, a calculation that appears nowhere in DNC rules and turns 1.7 million Democratic voters into ghosts.

The irony is that the drumbeat for Clinton's withdrawal -- coming on the heels of her recent wins and right before what may be her biggest in Pennsylvania -- is rooted in the collapse of the effort to redo Michigan and Florida. The theory is that she should quit because there is no way she can win, and that there is no way she can win because two states she could win, at least one of which she actually did win, will not be counted until she gets out. Barack Obama would thus become the nominee -- not because of an honestly earned if precariously narrow lead in the final national vote, but because of two elections he would not let happen.

If that sounds like a curious way to end a nominating contest that 30 million to 33 million voters will participate in before it's done, even stranger is that the DNC is following only some of its rules -- and that the real culprits who caused this debacle are Republicans, who are now relishing the catfight they provoked.

Dems Take the Hit for the GOP

The Republican role is not some irrelevant anecdote. The DNC is charged, under its rules, to determine whether the Democrats in a noncompliant state made a "good faith" effort to abide by the party's electoral calendar, and to impose the full weight of its available penalties, namely a 100 percent takedown of a state's delegation, only if Democratic leaders in that state misbehaved. So the fact that it was Republicans who fomented the move-up of primaries in both these states to dates out-of-line with the DNC calendar is at the heart of the matter.

The rules also demand that the DNC's 30-member Rules and Bylaws Committee conduct "an investigation, including hearings if necessary" into these matters. The purpose of such a probe is to figure out if Democratic leaders in a state that did move up "took all provable, positive steps and acted in good faith" to either "achieve legislative changes" to bring a state into compliance or to "prevent legislative changes" that took a state out of compliance. A DNC spokesman could not point to any real "investigation" the party conducted of the actions of "relevant Democratic party leaders or elected officials," as the rules put it. All that happened with Florida, for example, was that two representatives of the state party made a pitch for leniency immediately before the Rules Committee voted for sanctions.


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Yawn. Florida & Michigan's delegates wouldn't make a dent in Obama's lead
Posted by: cmdrcero on Apr 3, 2008 2:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a silly argument. Suppose the DNC reverses course and seats the FL and MI delegates based on the results of their too-early elections. Don't even bother to give Obama some percentage of the uncommitted votes in states where his name was not even on the ballot. They can be free agents just like the superdelegates.

Mathematically, Clinton STILL has no chance of catching Obama in the pledged delegate count. Look at the size of his lead and how few contests remain. Unless she beats him in every single contest by much larger margins--around 80-20--than she has proved capable of in the past, she cannot go to the convention with a lead in the pledged delegate account. Even when MI and FL's Clinton delegates are counted, she'll be behind.

All of which means all Clinton hopes that the party insiders and superdelegates will break for her by about a 3 to 1 margin, which might be enough for her to just barely squeak out a victory. All the current finagling over FL and MI by her campaign, and its supporters, such as the author of the article, is just meant to reduce the margin of victory she would need among the superdelegates to take the nomination away from Obama.

Hillary Clinton would have made a fine Democratic nominee, but she has run a terrible campaign. All this quibbling over whether the Republicans have sabotaged the FL and MI primary process is just a sideshow.

Though I was once a Clinton supporter, her reluctance to do the math and act for the good of the country by stepping aside disappoints me. And since she has run such a poor campaign for the Democratic nomination, why should she deserve a shot at the general election?

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The Fair Way To Fix It
Posted by: BlackbirdHighway on Apr 3, 2008 3:07 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The answer seems clear to me. If the Florida and Michigan delegates are seated, then the states are rewarded for breaking the rules. If they aren't seated, then the voters in those states get punished, even though they weren't the ones who broke the rules.

So, here's the deal, if all the Democratic politicians in those states who voted to break the rules resign, then the delegates can be seated. That puts blame squarely where it belongs. Yes, the Repubs had a hand in it too, but you can hardley expect to punish them. The rule breaking changes never would have passed without Democratic support in those states. If the Democratic politicians were stupid enough to go along, they should pay the price, not the voters.

If the Dems lose those two states in November, and McCain wins, the Dems have only themselves to blame. They will still find some way to make it Ralph Nader's fault, rather than admit their own stupidity. The Dems are so stupid.

If they lose this time, and McCain continues the Bush administration policies and ineptitudes, it will be the end of the Democratic Party.

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Clinton has already...
Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Apr 3, 2008 6:40 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...advanced this theory herself.

In Pennsylvania, she has made a concerted effort to get Repubs to change parties for the primary.
Not that she had to do it because the Elephants were way ahead of her here already, but it helps.

Clinton is obviously the Republican wet dream candidate in the fall.

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THE OLD PICKPOCKET DISTRACTION.
Posted by: bc430 on Apr 3, 2008 6:51 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In both Michigan and Florida it was Republicans who fomented the move-up of primaries to dates out-of-line with the DNC calendar."

With no assist from Mr. and Mrs. Clinton, right? That'll be the day.

In teaching me the power of TRUTH my grandparents used a saying. If you Lie you will Steal and if you Steal you will Kill.

They would spell Lie, Steal and Ki doudle L out in a rhyming fashion. The KI double L part was helpful in teaching me to spell (no typing lessons) but more importantly they lnstilled in me a pretty strong disdain for Lies and Liars.

Your wallet is in your left breast pocket, the theif bumps you on the right shoulder and lifts your wallet. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. and the screwing around with FL. and MI. and P.Rico primary dates are all right shoulder bumps.

Think about it.

If you Lie you will Steal and if you Steal you will Ki double L.

"I did not have sex with that woman."
"Sniper fire in Bosnia."
"NAFTA lie in OHIO, Obama Called Canadians."
"I misspoke."

Mr. and Mrs. Clinton, get your filthy finger out of America's face."

Children Are Watching

Peace.

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I'd love to blame the GOP for making my vote meaningless, but I can't
Posted by: rickiey on Apr 3, 2008 7:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a florida democrat voter who proudly voted for Obama in the primary (even though most of my friends didn't bother showing up because they weren't going to count).

However, my Democrat representatives voted UNANIMOUSLY to move the primary date up, knowing in advance, what the DNC was going to do about it.

If we would have lost that because they were outnumbered in the legislature (which they are), that would be one thing. But they voted for it.

Yes, I'm mad at my democrat representatives for failing to REPRESENT me. And I'm mad at my party, for deciding my vote doesn't count, because my representatives failed to represent me.

Of course, that anger doesn't make me stupid enough to vote republican.

Now Hillary is trying to spin the whole thing as "Obama doesn't want my vote to count". Just another case of her rewriting history, as if she didn't approve of those rules herself in the first place, well, until she started losing.

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It'a all Howard Dean's fault
Posted by: GLP on Apr 3, 2008 8:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was a supporter of Howard Dean in 2004. I liked what he said and what he stood for.

But now, as the DNC Chair, his actions lead me to believe he wants Barack Obama to be the nominee. He may says he's being neutral, but his actions speak very clearly.

I've known for a while that Dean had problems with the Clintons. I just thought he was better than to do as he's done and tilt the board towards Obama.

As for the poster here who says seating the Florida and Michigan delegates will not change the lead, i do belive you're wrong. I've taken the current totals, added to both candidates what they would have received from Florida and Michigan and my totals have Hillary Clinton pulling slightly ahead in both delegates and popular vote.

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Also from Florida,
Posted by: Andie927 on Apr 3, 2008 8:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Dems in the State Leg. voted For it, because it was one of those Bi-Partisian Compromises Obama and his supporters are so fond of: To Get Paper Ballots!!

I would estimate: That well over half the Voting Age Population of the United States of America are Disenfranchised Routinely!
1.) By Winner-Take all State Electorial system
(why should an R vote in a blue state, or a D in a Red state? Think Dems will take Georgia?
2.) Roughly, 22 states don't allow Ex-Felons, off Probation (not in jail) under Federal Rules: All rights restored, Can't Vote!!
And the % in jail is? 1 in 100? Highest in the world!
3.) Two Party System, (highly protected by both) leaves a lot of Voters with 'no choice'!
How many times have you heard, 'hold my nose and vote the party', 'voted for the lesser of two evils'?? Instant Run-Off Voting (supported by the Green Party) gives you More choices, and ensures that the Winner will have a majority greater then 50%!
4.) Not to leave out, the dirty tricks, the Caging, and Churches Telling members how to Vote, or go to Hell!

That said, the Simple Solution is for Howard Dean, to get his Credentials Committee together NOW! A record number of Florida voters came out, against the odds! They voted in 'good faith'. So did Minnasota!

Offer them several choices, ways to compromise. Allow half to count now, and all to be represented at the convention! I think the delegates have to be assigned according to the voters wishes. I don't think ignoring the votes, and splitting them 50/50 (like Obama wants)is NOT fair to the Voters at all!

I was an Edwards supporter, who's gone to the Green Party! I don't have a horse in this race! But I do hear the talk around Florida!

HOW MANY STATES CAN THE DEMOCRATS AFFORD TO WRITE_OFF????? How much 'punishment' do voters deserve (who had no choice) for 6 DAYS??

Country Before Party***votesmart.org**Go Green!

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The Otis test
Posted by: HughScott on Apr 3, 2008 10:19 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
QUESTION 1: Who would you rather share a stuck elevator with for eight hours? Obama or Hillary?

QUESTION 2: Who would you rather listen to as president of the United States for eight years?

I'm betting most Americans would answer, "OBAMA!"

Hugh E. Scott, Vietnam vet, ex-USAF pilot, lifelong registered Republican, ARDENT Obama supporter and the author of George Dub-ya Bush, THE PHONY FIGHTER PILOT, published in 2004.

To read a sample chapter and learn about the only smoking-gun proof of White House corruption ever found on the Web, visit www.PhonyFighterPilot.com.

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Don't balme the Repubs
Posted by: hurricane hugo on Apr 3, 2008 10:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
for Michigan's decision to move the primary date here forward. Both of our US Senators and our Governor (all Dems) spearheaded the move.

jdfu!

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What about the children?
Posted by: Tom Tele on Apr 3, 2008 11:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What kind of message does it send the children if Florida and Michigan can break the rules and get away with it? The deep irony is that if they had kept their primaries where they were they would have had much influence in this year. Obviously Florida and Michigan think they are better and more important than Iowa and New Hampshire. Would they take their responsibility to the nation as seriously as New Hampshire and Iowa? McCain is the next president anyway. Hillary was practically anointed prior to the voting it is too bad for her the voters didn't agree with the media , the Republican and the Democratic elites. We need a return to the ols smoke filled rooms anyway.

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Could Republicans Pick the Democratic Nominee?
Posted by: joeunix on Apr 3, 2008 11:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They've already done just that.

That's why the Republicans own the corporate "mainstream news" media.

Now y'all hurry down to the voting booth, you here.

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John Mccain
Posted by: willymack on Apr 3, 2008 12:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And all the other rethug zeros remind me of an old Sears & Roebuck catalogue: Big, thick, and full of cheap shit. I remember reading from a replica of one, c. 1890 or thereabouts. There was a pocket watch pictured there at a price of one dollar and a caption entitled: "Consider the Price". Even for those days that was a cheap watch. The grabber there was "Who knows? Maybe the watch will last a long time, and even keep good time, considering the price". We bought a couple cheap watches when we elected reagan and bush, and have suffered greatly for those foolish decisions. I'm more than ready to move up to a Rolex or Omega. Obama would do nicely, thank you.

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olivelawyers
Posted by: RSOlive on Apr 3, 2008 1:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Look, we're going to abide by whatever the Democratic National Committee determines is fair," he says. (Video and transcript at http://www.npr.org/ templates/story/ story.php?storyId=88212282 )He has offered his input on what he thinks is fair, but he has not been quoted anywhere that I've been able to find that would justify the statement: "Barack Obama would thus become the nominee -- not because of an honestly earned if precariously narrow lead in the final national vote, but because of two elections he would not let happen."


Those are the man's actual words. To warrant republication here, I would think that this four-day old Huffington Post article needs to get its facts straight about an allegation that is this serious and inflammatory. At a minimum, it should provide sources to establish this iron control is within his power as opposed to that of Howard Dean and his power people.

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it's all theater
Posted by: metoo on Apr 4, 2008 3:27 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
let the contest play out. If you think Obama is the end all and be all of democracy you have a lesson to learn and you'll get the representation you deserve. None of the above is the correct answer. The republican is in this by default and the Democrats are a byproduct of a beauty contest.

Hillary is sour milk, Obama is stinky cheeze, neither will be able to stand up to the worms of the republican party alone. Hold your nose and pick a Nominee is what were left with and if your lucky the looser in the democratic nominating process will be willing to save this party by taking a back seat in the VP chair.

Personally I think the party should fall. It's been a useless collection of spineless idiots for far too long.

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You gotta be kidding me...
Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Apr 4, 2008 6:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...those of you who think my guy is better than your guy (gal) etc.

Bullshit. They are all cut from the same corporate fascist cloth.

If you have 10 min take a look at the following:

linked text

Oh, and by the way, Mike Gravel if you haven't heard, left the Democrapic party recently, or I should say that it left him (and me).

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Repubs Picking Dem Candidate in More than MI and FL
Posted by: kendeed on Apr 4, 2008 4:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I read the headline, I expected the story to address the role of 'Pubs in open Dem primaries and closed Dem primaries (where many temporarily changed their party registration) and voted for Hillary as the preferred opponent to any 'Pub nominee. Those cases may have had just as serious an impact on the Dem nomination process, in adding votes to Hillary's column, as CT 'Pubs did in the 2006 CT senatorial election where they were responsible for electing Joe Lieberman instead of the Dem candidate.

As far as the MI and FL primaries go, the candidates agreed to abide by the DNC ruling against counting the results towards the nomination and Dem voters knew that prior to their primaries. Hillary broke her promise to abide by that agreement. It's impossible to tell how many Democrats didn't vote in MI and FL because they believed the vote wouldn't count or because their candidate wasn't on the ballot, but for Hillary to claim any victory in that situation is completely dishonest. If the MI and FL Dem parties want to have a say in the nomination process, they need to do something the DNC. the candidates and the voters can support as a fair and representative way to pick delegates. You can't just say, "Well you knew what my nature was and you shouldn't have believed I'd keep my promise," as the scorpion did in Aesop's fable, "The Scorpion and the Frog."

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