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Election 2008

White People Have a Racial History Too

By Alice Walker, AlterNet. Posted April 2, 2008.


How dishonest it is to portray Obama as the only candidate with a racial inheritance.
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I have come home from a long stay in Mexico to find -- because of the presidential campaign, and especially because of the Obama-Clinton race for the Democratic nomination -- a new country existing alongside the old. On any given day we, collectively, become the Goddess of the Three Directions and can look back into the past, look at ourselves just where we are and take a glance, as well, into the future. It is a space with which I am familiar.

When I was born in 1944 my parents lived on a middle Georgia plantation that was owned by a white distant relative, Miss May Montgomery. (During my childhood it was necessary to address all white girls as "Miss" when they reached the age of 12.) She would never admit to this relationship, of course, except to mock it. Told by my parents that several of their children would not eat chicken skin, she responded that of course they would not. No Montgomerys would.

My parents and older siblings did everything imaginable for Miss May. They planted and raised her cotton and corn, fed and killed and processed her cattle and hogs, painted her house, patched her roof, ran her dairy, and, among countless other duties and responsibilities, my father was her chauffeur, taking her anywhere she wanted to go at any hour of the day or night. She lived in a large white house with green shutters and a green, luxuriant lawn: not quite as large as Tara of Gone With the Wind fame, but in the same style.

We lived in a shack without electricity or running water, under a rusty tin roof that let in wind and rain. Miss May went to school as a girl. The school my parents and their neighbors built for us was burned to the ground by local racists who wanted to keep ignorant their competitors in tenant farming. During the Depression, desperate to feed his hardworking family, my father asked for a raise from 10 dollars a month to 12. Miss May responded that she would not pay that amount to a white man, and she certainly wouldn't pay it to a nigger. That before she'd pay a nigger that much money, she'd milk the dairy cows herself.

When I look back, this is part of what I see. I see the school bus carrying white children, boys and girls, right past me and my brothers, as we trudge on foot five miles to school. Later, I see my parents struggling to build a school out of discarded army barracks, while white students, girls and boys, enjoy a building made of brick. We had no books; we inherited the castoff books that "Jane" and "Dick" had previously used in the all-white school that we were not, as black children, permitted to enter.

The year I turned 50, one of my relatives told me she had started reading my books for children in the library in my hometown. I had had no idea -- so kept from black people it had been -- that such a place existed. To this day knowing my presence was not wanted in the public library when I was a child, I am highly uncomfortable in libraries and will rarely, unless I am there to help build, repair, refurbish or raise money to keep them open, enter their doors.

When I joined the freedom movement in Mississippi in my early 20s it was to come to the aid of sharecroppers, like my parents, who had been thrown off the land they'd always known, the plantations, because they attempted to exercise their "democratic" right to vote. I wish I could say white women treated me and other black people a lot better than the men did, but I cannot. It seemed to me then, and it seems to me now, that white women have copied, all too often, the behavior of their fathers and their brothers, and in the South, especially in Mississippi, and before that, when I worked to register voters in Georgia, the broken bottles thrown at my head were gender-free.

I made my first white women friends in college; they were women who loved me and were loyal to our friendship, but I understood, as they did, that they were white women and that whiteness mattered. That, for instance, at Sarah Lawrence, where I was speedily inducted into the board of trustees practically as soon as I graduated, I made my way to the campus for meetings by train, subway and foot, while the other trustees, women and men, all white, made their way by limo. Because, in our country, with its painful history of unspeakable inequality, this is part of what whiteness means. I loved my school for trying to make me feel I mattered to it, but because of my relative poverty I knew I could not.

I am a supporter of Obama because I believe he is the right person to lead the country at this time. He offers a rare opportunity for the country and the world to start over, and to do better. It is a deep sadness to me that many of my feminist white women friends cannot see him. Cannot see what he carries in his being. Cannot hear the fresh choices toward Movement he offers. That they can believe that millions of Americans -- black, white, yellow, red and brown -- choose Obama over Clinton only because he is a man, and black, feels tragic to me.

When I have supported white people, men and women, it was because I thought them the best possible people to do whatever the job required. Nothing else would have occurred to me. If Obama were in any sense mediocre, he would be forgotten by now. He is, in fact, a remarkable human being, not perfect but humanly stunning, like King was and like Mandela is. We look at him, as we looked at them, and are glad to be of our species. He is the change America has been trying desperately and for centuries to hide, ignore, kill. The change America must have if we are to convince the rest of the world that we care about people other than our (white) selves.

True to my inner Goddess of the Three Directions, however, this does not mean I agree with everything Obama stands for. We differ on important points probably because I am older than he is, I am a woman and person of three colors, (African, Native American, European), I was born and raised in the American South, and when I look at the earth's people, after 64 years of life, there is not one person I wish to see suffer, no matter what they have done to me or to anyone else; though I understand quite well the place of suffering, often, in human growth.

I want a grown-up attitude toward Cuba, for instance, a country and a people I love; I want an end to the embargo that has harmed my friends and their children, children who, when I visit Cuba, trustingly turn their faces up for me to kiss. I agree with a teacher of mine, Howard Zinn, that war is as objectionable as cannibalism and slavery; it is beyond obsolete as a means of improving life. I want an end to the ongoing war immediately, and I want the soldiers to be encouraged to destroy their weapons and to drive themselves out of Iraq.

I want the Israeli government to be made accountable for its behavior towards the Palestinians, and I want the people of the United States to cease acting like they don't understand what is going on. All colonization, all occupation, all repression basically looks the same, whoever is doing it. Here our heads cannot remain stuck in the sand; our future depends of our ability to study, to learn, to understand what is in the records and what is before our eyes. But most of all, I want someone with the self-confidence to talk to anyone, "enemy" or "friend," and this Obama has shown he can do. It is difficult to understand how one could vote for a person who is afraid to sit and talk to another human being. When you vote, you are making someone a proxy for yourself; they are to speak when, and in places, you cannot. But if they find talking to someone else, who looks just like them, human, impossible, then what good is your vote?

It is hard to relate what it feels like to see Mrs. Clinton (I wish she felt self-assured enough to use her own name) referred to as "a woman" while Barack Obama is always referred to as "a black man." One would think she is just any woman, colorless, race-less, past-less, but she is not. She carries all the history of white womanhood in America in her person; it would be a miracle if we, and the world, did not react to this fact. How dishonest it is, to attempt to make her innocent of her racial inheritance.

I can easily imagine Obama sitting down and talking, person to person, with any leader, woman, man, child or common person, in the world, with no baggage of past servitude or race supremacy to mar their talks. I cannot see the same scenario with Mrs. Clinton, who would drag into 21st century American leadership the same image of white privilege and distance from the reality of others' lives that has so marred our country's contacts with the rest of the world.

And yes, I would adore having a woman president of the United States. My choice would be Rep. Barbara Lee, who alone voted in Congress five years ago not to make war on Iraq. That to me is leadership, morality and courage; if she had been white, I would have cheered just as hard. But she is not running for the highest office in the land, Mrs. Clinton is. And because Mrs. Clinton is a woman, and because she may be very good at what she does, many people, including some younger women in my own family, originally favored her over Obama. I understand this, almost. It is because, in my own nieces' case, there is little memory, apparently, of the foundational inequities that still plague people of color and poor whites in this country. Why, even though our family has been here longer than most North American families -- and only partly due to the fact that we have Native American genes -- we very recently, in my lifetime, secured the right to vote, and only after numbers of people suffered and died for it.

When I offered the word "womanism" many years ago, it was to give us a tool to use, as feminist women of color, in times like these. These are the moments we can see clearly, and must honor devotedly, our singular path as women of color in the United States. We are not white women, and this truth has been ground into us for centuries, often in brutal ways. But neither are we inclined to follow a black person, man or woman, unless they demonstrate considerable courage, intelligence, compassion and substance. I am delighted that so many women of color support Barack Obama -- and genuinely proud of the many young and old white women and men who do.

Imagine, if he wins the presidency we will have not one but three black women in the White House; one tall, two somewhat shorter, none of them carrying the washing in and out of the back door. The bottom line for most of us is: With whom do we have a better chance of surviving the madness and fear we are presently enduring, and with whom do we wish to set off on a journey of new possibility? In other words, as the Hopi elders would say: Who do we want in the boat with us as we head for the rapids? Who is likely to know how best to share the meager garden produce and water? We are advised by the Hopi elders to celebrate this time, whatever its adversities.

We have come a long way, Sisters, and we are up to the challenges of our time. One of which is to build alliances based not on race, ethnicity, color, nationality, sexual preference or gender, but on Truth. Celebrate our journey. Enjoy the miracle we are witnessing. Do not stress over its outcome. Even if Obama becomes president, our country is in such ruin it may well be beyond his power to lead us toward rehabilitation. If he is elected, however, we must, individually and collectively, as citizens of the planet, insist on helping him do the best job that can be done; more, we must insist that he demand this of us. It is a blessing that our mothers taught us not to fear hard work. Know, as the Hopi elders declare: The river has its destination. And remember, as poet June Jordan and Sweet Honey in the Rock never tired of telling us: We are the ones we have been waiting for.

AlterNet is a nonprofit organization and does not make political endorsements. The opinions expressed by its writers are their own.

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we are all black
Posted by: caru on Apr 2, 2008 3:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
thats what the dna tells us. lets embrace this and push the mind of whitey off the stage. labeling humans as a color only exists as a means of control and separation.

we can trace heritage in each one, returning to the same mother. by denying this truth one only admits to self-hating.

we can accept each thread of our species, each difference, with justice.

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» RE: we are all black Posted by: hagwind
» RE: we are all black Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: we are all black Posted by: bookie
» RE: we are all black Posted by: zizizzi
» RE: we are all black Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: we are all black Posted by: bc430
» RE: we are not all black Posted by: DesertStone
Incredibly poignant article!
Posted by: MindyB on Apr 2, 2008 4:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you for this great article! It gives us much to think about as we deal with this very heated nomination process. She has incredible insight on who we are as a country and makes perfect sense. America's history of segregation, oppression and discrimination is not that far back in the past. We all need to recognize that until we (as a country) learn to accept what has happened in our not so distant past with eyes wide open, we will not be able to move into the future, a future of unification and a future of a true "United States" that equally embraces all citizens of this country.

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Thank You Alice Walker
Posted by: BobS on Apr 2, 2008 4:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I attended my first Black History class in 1968 at the University of Maryland. The class came about because Black students demanded it in that tumultuous year. They were supported by a small but significant number of white students.

On the first day of class it was a shock to all of us to find out that a southern white professor was the teacher. Because of UM's Jim Crow history, it has almost no Black faculty at the time. But Professor Dan Carter turned out to be very knowledgeable and an relentless foe of Dixie apartheid. All of us learned a lot from that man.

But even though UM's first Black Studies class was taught by a white man, the racists on campus still howled in protest. They used to argue loud and long that if "the Blacks" (and they used another term that I won't repeat here) had Black Studies, why not have White Studies?

Of course, much of the class was taken up with the history of whiteness in America. Black people sure didn't invent Jim Crow.

Well, as the old cliche goes, be careful what you wish for, you might get it. Now we do have White Studies.
Books like How the Irish Became White People, The Wages of Whiteness, When Affirmative Action Was White, Sundown Towns and many others go into great detail about how that disparate and quarrelsome crowd of European immigrants, many of whom had endured terrible class oppression, became White People.

Alice Walker, like so many Black intellectuals before her, has made her own unique contribution to this discipline of White Studies.

At the core of the White Studies movement is the recognition that America has a racial history so tragic that it would strain the abilities of a Shakespeare or a Sophocles to tell it. America invented the whole concept of Black People and White People and now whether we like it or not, that is our reality.

Of course the problem with White Studies is that it tells us a story that many people don't want to hear, even though white people who close their ears to it are the very ones who need to hear it the most.

America appears to be going through the disintegration of its Age of Empire and this will bring on far-reaching social and economic distress.

Not far from where I took my first Black Studies class is a little stream called Antietam Creek. On a September day in 1862, 23,000 Americans were killed or wounded in the single most bloody day in our history. Those 12 terrible hours in the rolling Maryland countryside are just one of the many violent results that came from our inability to solve our racial divide peacefully.

People like Alice Walker suggest another alternative. Have we smartened up enough to take it? We'll see.

Bob Simpson
The BobboSphere

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» RE: Thank You Alice Walker Posted by: ALANHESTER
Racial Inheritance?
Posted by: rickiey on Apr 2, 2008 4:55 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Racial inheritance? Are you *censored* kidding me? I mean, seriously.

Gee, I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that I had strayed over to a Catholic forum. I mean, that must be where I'm at, cuz otherwise why would there be any "original sin" conversation?

As an "evil white male" I refuse to take on any form of "inheritance" for actions that I have not done.

There are many reasons to vote against Hillary Clinton. Her lack of honesty, her lack of ethics, the fact that she is the closest thing to actually being GW Bush without being named Cheney, for example.

But to vote against her because of her race? Oh, excuse me, her "racial inheritance"? That is just bigotry, however nicely you try to veil it.

If I thought for a second that Obama thinks the way the author of this does, I would be out trying to retract my primary vote.

Fortunately, like Rev Wright, the author also does not speak for him. He speaks for himself, and actually understand the concepts of equality.

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» RE: acial Inheritance? Posted by: Julian
» RE: Racial Inheritance? Posted by: PJAW
» RE: acial Inheritance? Posted by: rickiey
» RE: acial Inheritance? Posted by: soft2u47
» RE: Possible explanations for the disparaties Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» cut and paste Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: acial Inheritance? Posted by: bc430
» How about "write privilege"? Posted by: supercrisp
» RE: acial Inheritance? Posted by: vegan27
» RE: acial Inheritance? Posted by: astralman
» RE: acial Inheritance? Posted by: rickiey
» RE: acial Inheritance? Posted by: Cooltruth
» RE: acial Inheritance? Posted by: Logic's Edge
» Inheritance Posted by: YogiBear
What a sad article
Posted by: dmaddox on Apr 2, 2008 5:39 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ms Walker seems to be so unable to get over the past that she is incapable of recognizing and celebrating change and progress. The very fact that her books are honored and praised in libraries where, half a century ago, they would have been banned is remarkable and praiseworthy. Yet this sad, embittered, old woman still refuses to even visit those libraries.

I grew up in Memphis during the 1960s. My grandparents were openly racist, my parents struggling to adjust. Bigoted language and attitudes were never seen or heard in my home, although my sister and I were taught to tolerate such from our less educated kinfolk. Even so, I never had a black friend or acquaintance until I was well into college.

My own children, on the other hand, grew up in mixed race neighborhoods in the same middle Georgia region Ms Walker speaks of in her article. Their friends were black, white, and latino, and no one paid any mind to the differences.

My daughter's date to her junior prom was a wonderful young man, who just happens to be black. They went their separate ways, but still correspond regularly. He apparently still carries a torch for her, so I guess it's not out of the question that he could end up my son-in-law. This would absolutely horrify my grandparents, but would not displease me. As I said, he's a fine young man from a good family.

Don't talk to me about "racial inheritance". What a bigoted, racist, horrible notion that just because my grandparents behaved and believed a certain way that I must also harbor those same ideas. That my children are condemned to repeat their actions and to treat their fellow-man with anything less than respect.

Yes, things in this country were horrible. But to ignore the progress made in over half a century of work is to perpetuate bigotry. It saddens me that Ms Walker, who pretends to an enlightened perspective, falls into that category.

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» RE: What a sad article Posted by: djnoll
» RE: What a sad article Posted by: writer7
» there is over generalization.... Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: What a sad article Posted by: rickiey
» RE: What a sad article Posted by: jaded
» Everyone is a Racist Posted by: kamcallen
Racism, a Two-Way Street
Posted by: Andie927 on Apr 2, 2008 5:52 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm only six years younger then this author. I was raised in a small town in CT. The 'black' kids I knew, and was friends with, rode our bus, went to our schools, and frequently sat next to me! Both I knew, (smarter then me) went to college, when I couldn't afford to!

In the late 1970's we moved to N.Carolina, a large estate was being divided for the first time (the deed was from the King of England), a doctor bought the fancy house, and there were three 'tenet' farms houses being sold, with 25 acres each. The other two, one bought and one rented, by brothers who's families had been tenet farmers from as far back as anyone could remember, on that land! They were white!

My point is, we all have 'sad' stories, bigotry, prejudice, racism, sexism, discrimination in all forms exist!

We are NOT born equal, Except in the Eyes of God! Here on earth, we have to do the best we can with the hand we're dealt!

No Person, minister, teacher, politician, in a position of 'public trust, and responsiblity'; should do or say things that encourages, holding onto past wrongs, insight one group against the other, fan the flames of Hatred!

There were a LOT of white people, in the Civil Rights Movement, and Marches! There are?/were 'white' tenent farmers too. There are 'poor' white kids too.

My problem with Rev. Wrights speech, was it was Hate Speech! Hate the Whitey! Paint all White People with the same brush, I know my Black friends wouldn't want me painting all 'black' people with the same brush. Never mind a White Preacher, in a Mega Church, doing it! (Yes, I'd be upset if it were a White Church, doing the same thing)

But why would Barack Obama, with his 'we are all Americans' line, 'bring people together' line: Put a man with these Views, opinions, attitudes, ON his Political Campaign??

Will the REAL Barack Obama, Please stand-up?

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» RE: acism, a Two-Way Street Posted by: rickiey
» RE: acism, a Two-Way Street Posted by: rickiey
» RE: acism, a Two-Way Street Posted by: hatshepsut
White racism is a huge one-way highway says WashPost
Posted by: PakiBoy on Apr 2, 2008 6:27 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Social psychologists [Harvard University] Philip Mazzocco and Mahzarin Banaji once asked white volunteers how much money would cover the "costs" of being born black instead of white. The volunteers guessed that about $5,000 ought to cover the lifetime disadvantages of being an average black person rather than an average white person, in the United States. By contrast, when asked how much they wanted to go without television, the volunteers demanded a million dollars.

Mazzocco and Banaji were taken aback: The average black person in America is 447 percent more likely to be imprisoned than the average white person, and 521 percent more likely to be murdered. Blacks earn 60 cents to the dollar compared with whites who have the same education levels and marital status. The black poverty rate is nearly twice the white poverty rate. Blacks tend to die five years earlier than whites; the infant mortality rate among black babies is nearly 1 1/2 times the rate among white babies. And because of long-standing patterns of inheritance, blacks and whites begin life with substantial disparities in family wealth.

"The point we were making is, whatever the cost of being black might be, whites are vastly underestimating it," said Mazzocco, of Ohio State University at Mansfield. "You throw in the 5-to-1 wealth gap . . . if you wanted to put a dollar-and-cents value on the difference, you would come up with a number much larger than $5,000."

The unusual experiment is one of dozens that have found that whites tend to have a relatively rosy impression of what it means to be a black person in America. Whites are more than twice as likely as blacks to believe that the position of African Americans has improved a great deal. Blacks are more than twice as likely as whites to believe that conditions for African Americans are growing worse.

"Many whites assume blacks are making use of old crimes to gain present-day benefits that are unearned," Mazzocco said. "Underlying this is a misunderstanding and ignorance about black costs and white privilege."

The intriguing question prompted by Eibach's study is why whites and blacks are unconsciously drawn to different yardsticks. Eibach said one reason might be that racial equality means different things to whites and blacks: Whites see it as an ideal, blacks as a necessity. When people evaluate progress toward idealistic or optional goals -- saving for a vacation -- they tend to focus on progress made. But when people think of necessities -- paying the rent -- they focus on how much they are short.

In another set of experiments, social psychologist Amanda Brodish at the University of Michigan's Institute for Social Research showed that prejudice may play a role, too. Whites with high levels of prejudice -- who think blacks are not as smart as whites, who think blacks and whites are inherently unequal, and who reported being uncomfortable with a black roommate -- invariably evaluated racial equality only in comparison with the past.

By contrast, said Brodish's co-author, Patricia Devine of the University of Wisconsin at Madison, low-prejudice whites were equally willing to apply the yardsticks of both past and future.

"There is a disconnect between whites and blacks about what it feels like to be a victim of mundane discrimination," Eibach concluded. "There is a tendency to say, 'These mundane things are nothing like the past,' but the lived reality of bearing that weight -- the frustrations and indignities -- that is a major source of the disconnect."

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» pfft! you missed the point Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: I provided a few possible explanations here Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» i didn't miss it Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» pfft! your post is very revealing Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
Same Ol', Same Ol'
Posted by: MizLee17 on Apr 2, 2008 6:33 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm so disappointed, but not surprised, that the "white inheritance" is limited to the racist Southern US - as though it didn't appen anywhere else in the US or the planet, for that matter. Anwar Sadat's wife's family was appalled she wanted to marry a dark man. In many places and cultures, lighter skin means a better person. Before tans became fashionable, even White people worked to avoid darkening "our" skin. I had a Black co-worker who claimed she would never date a dark man, "I like 'em light, bright, and nearly white," she proclaimed, much to my surprise as almost everyone is darker than I.

I had hoped she would give some credit to the individual whites who did what they could to combat the official racism of the culture. My grandmothers used their position to come to the aid of their maids and their families, even to the point of being threatened for doing so. That Ms. Walker's Miss May allowed "family" to live so miserably just speaks to a weakness in her gene pool.

Those libraries she won't go in are open to people of color due to people "without" color who stood for the rights of all people at considerable risk to themselves and their families. It wouldn't have happened otherwise. Too bad Ms. Walker doesn't know her/our history as well as she should.

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» RE: Same Ol', Same Ol' Posted by: clvngodess
» RE: Same Ol', Same Ol' Posted by: bc430
» RE: Same Ol', Same Ol' Posted by: kimbari
Thank you, Alice
Posted by: ankhet on Apr 2, 2008 6:36 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've enjoyed your work for a number of years (20+?) now. Thank you for this wonderful, insightful piece.

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That White Girl
Posted by: Maya on Apr 2, 2008 6:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Amazing how race ALWAYS trumps gender. Esp with women.

The colonizing Europeans who not only managed the slave trade but exterminated the American Indians were men. Only 16 percent of our current politicans are women.

Clinton has done more for poor women of all colors than Obabma. And it is not an issue he seems to worry about in the least.

how sad Walker's piece devolves into "That white girl," just the kind of divisive and triangualting situations women around the world continually subject each another to. I feel more in support of Clinton than ever before.

Walker,being a goddess means seeing other women as one too.

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» RE: That White Girl Posted by: writer7
» RE: That White Girl Posted by: Maya
» Hillary's number one crime... Posted by: YogiBear
» Circles Posted by: YogiBear
We Are All Related
Posted by: leener on Apr 2, 2008 6:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The one fact I felt that was left out of this piece was the mention of white poverty. The white women you spoke of are women of privilege, educated and well-spoken who broke open the women's agenda in the 60s, the era of which Mrs. Clinton is a part. But there are those of us who were raised by working class or poor families as well. We are not part of the same white racial inheritance of which you speak. The white race does not have the same face. It's not an us vs. them scenario. Where I grew up, poor whites like us were in the same boat with poor black and Puerto Rican families - denied! There is a more insidious discrimination against people of poverty in this nation than against people of any race. That poverty continues to perpetuate itself generation after generation, regardless of race, is the real tragedy of democracy.

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» RE: We Are All Related Posted by: Maya
» RE: We Are All Related Posted by: clvngodess
» Irish need not apply Posted by: Itsthewater
Recurring theme of victmhood.
Posted by: PJAW on Apr 2, 2008 7:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seems like a lot of folks want to write in response to this article and offer a kind of "quite whining, I'm a victim too" sort of an attitude.

So, let me just add, I'm sick of all the bastards that are ripping me off and holding me down!

Aaaah..., I feel better now. So good, in fact, that I think I'm going to help the first person I see today who has less than me. Ha! That was easy, I did the dishes so my spouse wouldn't have to. Think I'l do antother one now.

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» RE: Misspellings Posted by: PJAW
» I did not misspell "misspell." Look it up. Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» andabottleof_rum Posted by: PJAW
Alice- are Jews who immigrated after slavery was abolished "white?"
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Apr 2, 2008 7:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alice- are Jews who immigrated after slavery was abolished "white" in your eyes? Granted the Jews are terrorizing the Palestinians now but do blacks look at 1900 immigrant Jews as slaveholders?

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» Franklin Delano Rosenfeld Posted by: Adler Berriman Seal
» RE: Franklin Delano Rosenfeld Posted by: Adler Berriman Seal
hey, we were here first....
Posted by: ellie on Apr 2, 2008 7:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
as usual, the standard gripe from me...

American Indian people today live 15 years shorter lives on average

still have 75% unemployment on our home rez's, Bennet County in SD is the home of the Pine Ridge rez, the poorest county in the US

we are stereotyped still into being creations of the past, every time we come up with something to try to drag us out of utter poverty, we face a cultural and/or legal backlash, could go on and on...

we think we started out with 10 million folks here at the time of european contact and by 1900 we were down to less then 250,000 people, now we're about 2 million including mixed blood people who admit it on the last census, but the prior census said we were only less then 1 million...

amazed still that when ethnicity is examined by the social sciences you hardly ever see us listed on the list of ethnicities surveyed...

the difference is that we tend to operate on a different paradigm, we do not want charity, we want the means and tools to make things better ourselves, our way...

most Indian folks I know do not want to assimilate, but want to do better for ourselves and our people... we are still sovereign nations and refuse to give that up...

back to coffee.... hmmmmm.....

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» Thank you. Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: mick3 Posted by: rickiey
» RE: mick3 Posted by: jaded
» Hypodescent Posted by: andabottleof_rum
Move along
Posted by: BST on Apr 2, 2008 8:03 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"It is a deep sadness to me that many of my feminist white women friends cannot see him."

What a castigation of feminist white women who simply like and admire Hillary Clinton.

Their decision is not all about YOU.

The most effective way to nourish racism, sexism and religious intolerance is to resolve to continue seeding every event, every decision, every new generation with the "way things used to be."

My mother, long gone, would take umbrage with your comments since HER racial history was to immediately dive in as a white woman to help blacks to sign up to vote when that opportunity arose.

Move along. It's 2008.

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» RE: Move along Posted by: writer7
» RE: Move along Posted by: LIBBIEBETH
» RE: Move along Posted by: bc430
sb
Posted by: sbzo on Apr 2, 2008 8:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Agree or disagree with Ms. Walker's article, she is being successful in one aspect and that is getting the American people to discuss the issues. As one person commented it is not discussed in the North. We harbor our resentments and opinions and then pretend like we are not racist, but it happens everywhere in every corner of this country and it is not just blacks and whites, it is people of all colors. So a big hurrah for Ms. Walker as she has again opened the door for meaningful discussion.

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» RE: sb -- More Power to You Posted by: Zeugitai
what if
Posted by: e rice on Apr 2, 2008 8:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
condoleeza rice were running?

what would the deciding factor be then? race, gender, or political position?

any chance of resurrecting hubert humphrey?

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» beautifully put Posted by: e rice
» RE: beautifully put Posted by: Zeugitai
» RE: beautifully put Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: what if Posted by: rickiey
What a letdown.
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Apr 2, 2008 9:07 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After reading the headline I was hoping for an article perhaps speaking about whites not being considered such cultural eunuchs as we are, or as one of my professors (who was jewish) put it years ago "just a plain white guy". Instead there seemed to be little mention of whites in the article at all... and all of that in the context of the dubious dichotomy between black and white.

"It is hard to relate what it feels like to see Mrs. Clinton (I wish she felt self-assured enough to use her own name) referred to as "a woman" while Barack Obama is always referred to as "a black man." One would think she is just any woman, colorless, race-less, past-less, but she is not."

And while that sort of racial transparency does have some benefits when one is considered the standard or default, it also leaves one just that.. race-less and past-less. Would anyone non-white ever truly want to be or even be considered race-less or past-less? I, for one, don't care to be past-less. I don't want to forget about my ancestors being forced off of their lands, subjected by foreigners, starved, and eventually forced away from their homes to lands far away. I don't want to forget that happening to either my Irish ancestors or my Native American ancestors. I'm not just "white", nor am I somehow guilty of something for simply being born with light skin.

"She carries all the history of white womanhood in America in her person; it would be a miracle if we, and the world, did not react to this fact. How dishonest it is, to attempt to make her innocent of her racial inheritance."

INNOCENT of her racial inheritance? As if she is actually GUILTY of something for simply being born white?

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» RE: What a letdown. Posted by: writer7
» RE: What a letdown. Posted by: kimbari
» Hmm.. Posted by: JoshuaLudd
King? Mandela? Are you kidding me?
Posted by: BobbyLip on Apr 2, 2008 9:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sadly, Alice Walker has gone off the deep end. There may come a time, if we are lucky beyond all reasonable expectation, that Senator Obama may rate inclusion in a pantheon that includes Martin Luther King, Jr., and Nelson Mandela, but not yet--not by a long shot. Although the senator easily surpasses those heroes in fealty to corporatism, militarism, and the usual politico's belief in American exceptionalism, what has he ever done to demonstrate physical or moral courage in service to anything greater than his own ambition? So far, as best I can see, the main reasons given to vote for him are that he is not Hillary and he opposed the Iraq invasion at the same time as millions of others and when he took no political--or any other--risk to do so. (Notice that he has no problem with invading Afghanistan--equally illegal and unjustifiable--or going into the wild west of Pakistan without that country's permission should there be "actionable" intelligence.) When Dick Durbin compared our treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo to that suffered in concentration camps or the gulag, Obama called that characterization "a mistake." He will not take on the insurance companies by fighting for a single-payer health care system; nor will he even call for universal coverage. The idea that he is anything other than the usual middle-of-the-road "liberal" is just plain wrong. I guess I'll vote for him if he's the only alternative to McCain, but I won't be singing hosannas as I do.

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From one sister to another
Posted by: herronsmith on Apr 2, 2008 10:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The comments here remind me of many conversations I have listened to while observing from the periphery. It is, what I coin, One-Woman-Upsmanship Storytelling. A woman tells a story and even before she has gotten her point across the next woman pipes up with a bigger and better story. This ensues until no one even remembers the point.
Everyone here has a valid point to make. The problem I have is the rehashing of the "points". Rarely do we talk about the solutions as this involves more thoughtful conversations and ones that would be hard to have, I suppose, on a forum such as this.
I won't bore you with my "story", partly because it pales in comparison. What I will discuss is the future for women and who can unite this group of multiracial, multinational, multiflavored goddesses. Until a month or so ago, I thought HRC could pass it off but no more. She now, perhaps always, seems to stand for everything empowered women try to shun when being compared to men and to one another. I even gave her some latitude but after her last desperate attempt when she hallucinated a duck and run situation in Bosnia, I know it time for me to sever the ties once and for all. I can take a lot but not outright dishonestly that a person perpetuates ad nauseum. I think she is ill, if not psychologically, then spiritually and that is why I side with BHO... for now. I don't see a problem with the Rev. Wright fiasco except to say that I find it nearly impossible for Barack not to have heard that kind of language sometime during any number of services he attended. Don't insult my intelligence. I attended the same church for over 20 years myself and believe me, the priest's message didn't vary in its' content or tone. I'm sure Rev. Wrights' didn't either. So, is this reason enough to ditch him? Maybe, but I don't believe so. I don't agree with most of his policies as they are too centrist for me. But I trust he will surround himself with advisors who will advise wisely, in favor of every woman, of every color, of every socioeconomic group. We need to bring the country together, not further divide it. I feel the comments, however heartfelt, are widening a dangerous chasm that already exists.

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Appearances
Posted by: mlesoing on Apr 2, 2008 10:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alice Walker, like many people, seems to see something regal, almost heroic, in Barack Obama. I do not understand what criteria Obama supporters are using to choose him over Clinton, not because Clinton is better, but rather because Clinton is identical. Rather, her voting record is identical to Obama's. Both support building a wall between the U.S. and Mexico, both support continuing a broken healthcare system instead of supporting single payer healthcare, both would continue to deny same sex marriage, and both of them, since the U.S. invaded Iraq, have voted to continue funding the war. To me, it is simply a throw of the dice as to which one to support since they are, race and sex aside, identical. Why does Ms. Walker think Obama would transform into a progressive simply by stepping into the oval office? A far better choice is Rep. Cynthia McKinney, a true progressive, brave enough to stand up for her beliefs and convictions. And for the record, Rep. Barbara Lee was not alone in voting no to make war on Iraq. In fact, 23 Senators and 156 Representatives also voted not to make war on Iraq (including McKinney).

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» RE: Appearances Posted by: bc430
» RE: Appearances Posted by: sallythewally
Racism against blacks wasn't the first
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Apr 2, 2008 10:33 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For America. Obviously the first was against Native Americans. Almost as ugly was against the Irish in the mid-19th century.

Thomas Nast that did the cartoons about Boss Tweed wasn't really targeting corruption as he was targeting the Irish (Tweed represented the Irish politically). He drew them as apes or monkeys. The Know Nothing party was formed as a political movement against Irish immigrants. The movie Gangs of New York was about the lives of the Irish in New York.

The first "race riot" was the draft riots in New York by the Irish protesting their being drafted into the civil war. Part of the riot was to attack blacks and their institutions.

Irish workers were considered to be less valuable than black slaves (who were worth money), so that they were given the worst and most dangerous jobs. Later that honor would fall to Italians, who were paid less than blacks.

It took 100 years to get an Irish Catholic elected President (JFK), and even that was a close call.

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Oh Poor White Women
Posted by: LIBBIEBETH on Apr 2, 2008 10:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thought I was on AOL rather than Alternet when I saw the many whining white voices, male and female. As a 60ish white woman, I applauded every one of Alice's beautiful words. Many white folks just can't seem to understand her point. Talk about blinders. I meet often with the privileged white women (well educated, moneyed, so secure in their privilege) who get vehemently irrational about Hillary. That 27 % who say they'll vote for McCain if Hillary doesn't get what she and they believe is hers by divine right. It isn't. Her womanhood goes with her whiteness. Alice is simply pointing out that she's not race neutral the way we, the white majority, tend to see her. She's white, privileged, and deeply flawed. She's lying outrageously, running a mean-spirited, racist campaign, attempting to get McCain elected if she can't win, and making some of us older women ashamed of our gender. And our race.

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» RE: Oh Poor White Women Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: Oh Poor White Women Posted by: kimbari
» RE: Oh Poor White Women Posted by: Maya
» or lack thereof? Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: Oh Poor White Women Posted by: sallythewally
» RE: Oh Poor White Women Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Oh Poor White Women Posted by: desidid
» RE: Oh Poor White Women Posted by: writer7
Whine, Whine, Whine
Posted by: rodhay on Apr 2, 2008 11:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Too much whining from everyone. The real problem is poverty. Design government programs to alleviate poverty and many of the problems of poor blacks AND poor whites will be removed. Look to the future rather than the past. Race based whining will not take you to a post-racial society. If you want a post-racial society stop thinking in racial terms. No more stereotypes -- from anyone!

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» RE: Whine, Whine, Whine Posted by: PakiBoy
Want White racial history?
Posted by: willymack on Apr 2, 2008 11:50 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'll give ya white racial history. I'm a Celt with well-known ancestors. My distant forebearers painted themselves blue for battle and fought their enemies naked, alongside their women. When they killed an enemy,they didn't scalp them; they took the whole head. Yep, they were headhunters, and would make the Apaches look like Cub Scouts. My wife is of Norwegian descent. You know, Skull Splitting Sven, Bjorn the Berserk, Ragnar the Repulsive, Katrina the Bald. Uff Da! So, what did the descendants of these gentle souls call the natives of North America? Savages.Ha! For sheer ferocity, savagery, brutality, and cruelty, Whitey takes the cake, hands down. We can change though. I haven't chopped off anybody's head for quite a while, now, and my wife has put away her spear and hat with the horns on it.

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» Point of historical note, Posted by: rickiey
Reading these comments I feels like we're all in Lord Of The Flies.
Posted by: Centavo on Apr 2, 2008 12:26 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Watch out for the cliff!

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» sucks to your asmar Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
interesting....
Posted by: Wildroots on Apr 2, 2008 12:36 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...that a person's telling of her own family history with American racism can inspire such angry and bitter comments. White people, what you have inherited is "white priviledge." While your forebears may not have been here during slavery and while you may not hate your Black neighbor, you benefit from the foundation of hatred and violence that this country is built on. And conversely, Black people still struggle to gain ground and right historical and present-day injustices...and valiantly I might add given the circumstances.

Ms. Walker has courageously and honestly described her family's encounters with racism. It is her personal truth that cannot be refuted as incorrect or diminished as a cold statistic. While we would like to think that because most Americans know not to use the N-word and that a man of African descent is running for President makes her truth part of that past, we have only to look at disportionate rates of incarceration, poverty, educational opportunities, etc. between Black and other communities to know that the actions of the past continue to have grave consequences for the present. And if the larger society does not begin to identify the racism at the foundation of this country, we are forced to wonder how much in the past is racism actually. You've never called a Black person a "n*****." I get it. But why the defensiveness? She simply stated the Truth and offered that all of us will have to be a part of correcting injustices regardless of who wins the next election.

wild roots

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I have to disagree...
Posted by: radiomorning on Apr 2, 2008 1:31 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
with the idea of racial inheritance, or inheritance of any kind. It shackles us to things we had no part in, and does away with the idea of equality.

How can we be equal if we are not born equal, without the sins of our grandfathers attached to our names?

We have to free ourselves from the sufferings of our ancestors. As in America, if we can't let go of its horrible history, how can the nation ever move forward? We must address the racial (and other) inequities of today, not those of yesterday.

And I like Obama, but MLK? Mandela? Come on now...

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» Well said, DaBear Posted by: SkyHorse
Alice! I see you!
Posted by: DaBear on Apr 2, 2008 1:47 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A fine piece of writing and some really powerful stuff, as always with Alice Walker's work.

I really do wonder about this Obama "thing"... mainly because I just don't get it. I've read lots of descriptions, gushings and other smarty talk about this guy, but I still just don't see it. He's like Mandela or King?! Really?

I've read his book(s), I've examined his voting record, his career and watch the campaign. I pore over the transcripts of the speeches, even watched a few of them on yootoob. Yeah, nah.

But neither are we inclined to follow a black person, man or woman, unless they demonstrate considerable courage, intelligence, compassion and substance.

From where I sit on the bottom of the class-heap in a brutally thrashed 'merkuh at the hands of the owning-investor class, Barack Obama sounds like a sales guy, not someone of substance. He's good at hitting mainstream triggers but he's still deeply entrenched in the false mythology of 'Merkaan cult-ure. None of what he's saying sounds or feels real or legit. Courage? I guess... but it's hardly courageous to run for President when you belong to the owning class, the white-supremacist element notwithstanding. Intelligence? I guess... he talks smarty, but frankly, I've heard other candidates talk smarter (Kucinich, Edwards, Nader.. look where they are). Compassion? I dunno, neither Obama nor any other candidate has been as bold as some when it came to Countrywide taking my home away from me, and the owning class is part of the system that eliminated my job potential and took away my mate's employment. Not much compassion there, at least not towards poor people, artists and teachers. None of those seem to be "considerable" in measure in Obama either.

What Obama sounds like to me, vis-a-vis King and Mandela, is recycled canned stuff with no nutrition. Cynthia McKinney is talking my shit. McCrazy and Clinton... those owning class craptastics are just total shit. I don't even bother talking about them.

Imagine, if he wins the presidency we will have not one but three black women in the White House; . . . none of them carrying the washing in and out of the back door.

Indeed, that might give me reason to not see this country as quite so fucking horrible and savage, but from I sit, that's just not fucking far enough in the way of progress.

The bottom line for most of us is: With whom do we have a better chance of surviving the madness and fear we are presently enduring, and with whom do we wish to set off on a journey of new possibility?

OK, I can imagine this new bottom line. A salesman who doesn't even know where or how I live day to day CANNOT help me "survive the madness." From where I sit, salesman help create and maintain that in the first place. "A journey of new possibility," such a journey is IMPOSSIBLE with the same crowd of people who got us in this shithole of a mess in the first place. Does Einstein's plethora of statements about insanity and wisdom mean nothing anymore?! There's no common sense at work here.

I know Obama appeals to my middle class brother and sister-in-law, and I keep hearing how he appeals to the "young"... but from what I'm reading and seeing and hearing, from the man himself is a whole lotta not-so-much. I get you, Alice, that you see something in him.

But then, you gotta job and a place to live and you get to eat whenever and whatever you want. I don't. Maybe that's really the difference afterall.

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» RE: Alice! I see you! Posted by: bc430
Yes.
Posted by: mensch on Apr 2, 2008 3:26 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, yes, yes. I couldn't agree more with this article. Firstly, what a well-written and emotive piece, still based in fact. Secondly, this is how I feel about Barack Obama. I feel that he is the best candidate for the role of President because of his policies, which are so fair and logical, they make perfect sense. He seems to be in touch with everyday people, and you're right, this is something I can't imagine Clinton being comfortable with. (And yes, why doesn't she use her own name? Is it to simply ride on the coat tails of her 'husband's legacy?) I truly hope, from the bottom of my heart, that Americans find it in their souls to vote for Obama when the time comes, because he is the only candidate that will make the changes the US needs to move forward and to once again be a country the rest of the world can admire.

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Like many others, Walker is lost in the hall of smoke & mirrors awaiting the ascendancy of a Savior
Posted by: Democratic Socialist on Apr 2, 2008 7:32 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This post will mostly address Walker's support for Barack "The Savior" Obama. Just to be clear, I don't support him or Clinton or anyone else, neither Democrat or Republican or Libertarian or Green or Communist or Fascist or whatever. It is clear to any rational observer that American democracy as it exists today has evolved in to a sham and a rip-off and is an utter and even laughable failure. Only it isn't even funny anymore because it has gotten so bad.

"He is, in fact, a remarkable human being, not perfect but humanly stunning, like King was and like Mandela is."

Yeah, "humanly stunning" like King and Mandela, Hitler and Mussolini, Lenin and Zedong. All I can say is BEWARE OF THE CHARISMA TRAP as it is so prominently displayed in the Obama campaign, as in the end it so very often leads to nothing more than massive disillusionment as the lemming-like human herd follows The One (male, almost always male) messiah-like figure, often to their eventual disappointment. In case you all haven't figured it out yet, no ONE PERSON (neither Obama or Clinton, McCain or Paul) can actually get much done on their own, unless you are willing to settle for a centralized emperor or sultan or fuehrer type of leader who everyone else must bow down before, that their judgement and decision is ALWAYS final and ALWAYS correct. I'm no supporter or apologist for Bush II, but all of the horrible failures during his administration is more the fault of the increasingly apathetic, frightened, drugged up, and mass-media-mollified American people rather than Bush alone; he is just a frightening and arrogant symbol of how terrible much of 21st Century America has become.

This is why we need coalitions and communities where intelligently-organized groups of locally responsible citizens can actually get things done in their LOCAL communities (if you haven't realized yet, your local communities are much more important than all of the stuff going on halfway across the world, or even across the country since you have little personal or communal connection to those faraway places). We need a focus on local leadership and community-building rather than this inane and ridiculous reliance on or faith in a charismatic (again, almost always male) centralized messianic-figure that will some day swoop down and save us all from our own stupidity, violence, greed, or indifference. The following of charismatic figures is actually a form of mass neurosis/psychosis, as the helpless/powerless/small individual neurotically seeks to be swept up-up-and-away by the bountiful tide of The Leader's infinite and seemingly divine paternalistic love (which is why you often see so many more women falling for these type of mass movements rather than men). This "messiah-pattern" (as I like to call it) has happened time and time again throughout history, and the masses never seem to learn from history that it just doesn't work out in the long run and is often more disastrous than helpful.

"...none of them carrying the washing in and out of the back door."

Yeah, no problem there; we've got the Mexicans to do that kind of work for us now.

---

Finally, as a White Southerner I heartily resent the portrayal of all or nearly all Southern Whites as racists and bigots in this piece. Of course their is/was racism here in The South, but so is there everywhere else in the USA. To tell the truth, I don't see many integrated neighborhoods or schools up North or in the West. Still though, I thought that a woman as intelligent and informed as Walker would know better than to paint such a crude and outright false picture. However, an appeal to the easily swayed emotions of the herd is to be expected from a staunch supporter of the illusionist and expert crowd manipulator known as Barack (note that "Barakah" is the Arabic/Islamic word that roughly means "charisma") Obama.

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Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Posted by: Innocence on Apr 2, 2008 11:40 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dear Alice,
You have forgotten who gave you an opportunity to share your story...with the world...on the big screen(The Color Purple) produced by a white man; Steven Spielberg.
We are all on the path...lets help one another sister. We can't do it alone. Wouldn't you agree? Peace & Love

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Racial memory...recoverable?
Posted by: lexicon on Apr 3, 2008 8:34 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, we are all "black" somewhere back there...and by "black" I mean, "of the displaced and disparaged." So maybe what I really mean is "we are all 'non-white'."

But there have been years upon years of very effective 'cover'. After all, being 'non-white' has NOT been an advantage here in the US for much of it's history.

For example, myself. I have recently discovered, that one of my fairly recent ancestors was almost certainly a Mohawk. (that's Haudenesaunee to YOU, whitey!).

BUT, apparently, at the turn of the century, being american indian (my ancestor) was somehow worse than being immigrant irish (her spouse)...

During that time, there was an official effort to diminish the tribes...to cause as much attrition and scattering as possible...because that made the tribes weaker, as a political entity. And, many many people went along with it, as it was the "style" of the day to assimilate and cast off the 'non-whiteness' if you could.

Now today, a century later, I feel a palpable sense of loss...of a heritage and birthright that is rightfully mine. The ability to identify as "indigenous" to somewhere, is broken, and there's a sense that being able to do that is IMPORTANT.

lexicon

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white privelege
Posted by: astralman on Apr 3, 2008 11:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
has anyone actually read peggy mcintosh's article?

http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/~mcisaac/emc598ge/Unpacking.html

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Alice Walker: liar and racist
Posted by: dferry01 on Apr 3, 2008 11:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"And yes, I would adore having a woman president of the United States. My choice would be Rep. Barbara Lee, who alone voted in Congress five years ago not to make war on Iraq. That to me is leadership, morality and courage; if she had been white, I would have cheered just as hard."

A noble sentiment, Walker, there's just one problem with your assessment: it's not true. Barbara Lee was NOT the only person to vote against the war in Iraq (get your facts straight if you want to be taken seriously, Walker: Lee was the only Congressman to vote against the authorization of the use of force against the TALIBAN, not five years ago but seven, a war that was and is supported by the vast majority of Americans, as well as by Barack Obama). Don't accuse whites of racism and then fail to distinguish between Iraqis and Afghans). Lee was in fact one of 156 members of Congress to vote against the Iraq Resolution, a number that includes several white women, many of whom are more experienced that Barbara Lee.

Yet Walker plucked out the black woman from the bunch. I would call this coincidence, except her entire article implies that all white people should be held accountable for slavery. I'm sorry, Miss Walker, but I refuse to apologize for sins I never committed. Not only have I personally never oppressed a black person, but my grandparents emigrated from Ireland less than a century ago, and they and my parents were far too poor to be oppressing anyone else. You want to point out racists, Walker? Look in the mirror. My "racial inheritance" is that the of the immigrant experience. YOU'RE the one with a white establishment relative, Miss Montgomery. By your own arguments of "racial inheritance" YOU bear the blame for racial inequality, not I. Unless. . . what, do all white people look the same to you?

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Ms. Walker, let's not fool ourselves
Posted by: Clockwise Cat on Apr 3, 2008 3:31 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama is impressive in his way, and his speech on race was certainly brilliant for its nuanced insight - but let's not fool ourselves. He is a CORPORATE Democrat. He is much more centrist than, say, Kucinich, and he can HARDLY be compared to MLK. MLK would likely SCOFF at the acquiescence on the part of Obama et al to the corporate takeover of the Democratic party.

No, I'm sorry, but as much as I dislike McCain and even Hillary and would of course prefer to see Obama in the White House over them, I'm quite weary and wary of this surge of LOVE for someone who is, quite frankly, not THAT progressive. He has taken in more corporate bucks than even McCain, he is not being specific about his Iraq plan, he has failed to stand up against the military juggernaut that is depleting our economy and annihilating the world, he is pro-Israel, and worst of all, he has no PLAN to help poor blacks.

Honestly I don't get why so many so-called progressives are so enamored of this man. We must be mightily desperate.

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Why Don't Whites Ever Acknowledge
Posted by: desidid on Apr 3, 2008 4:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
they invented race? Most Blacks seem to be descended from slavery, but I've only met one White person who's descended from slave owners. I've never read a post by a White person whose parents or grandparents got a house when FHA had racial covenants.

I've never read a post by a White person whose parents or grandparents were lucky enough to have been union members when...White-collar work in integrated settings, Drake and Cayton wrote, was broadly opposed by whites as a form of “social equality.” Unions, especially in the crafts, often barred African American entry into jobs, and industrial unions frequently acquiesced or colluded in leaving skilled, high-paying manufacturing jobs in white hands. Wisconsin Steel and Western Electric, on the far Southwest Side, graphically showed the difficulties of imagining unity at work and exclusion residentially and illustrated the difficulties facing antiracist trade unionists. In the area near those plants, Cohen writes, white employees feared African Americans “as co-workers—to say nothing of as neighbors.” Management in the factories, she adds, “respected community prejudice and did not hire blacks.” In this instance, as in more formal actions to enforce residential segregation, the category “white” came to unite and include a variety of immigrant groups.

I have never met a White person that has shared this history...Most southern white Americans who grew up prior to 1954 expected black Americans to conduct themselves according to well-understood rituals of behavior. This racial etiquette governed the actions, manners, attitudes, and words of all black people when in the presence of whites. To violate this racial etiquette placed one's very life, and the lives of one's family, at risk.

Blacks were expected to refer to white males in positions of authority as "Boss" or "Cap'n"--a title of respect that replaced "Master" or "Marster" used in slave times. Sometimes, the white children of one's white employer or a prominent white person might be called "Massa," to show special respect. If a white person was well known, a black servant or hired hand or tenant might speak in somewhat intimate terms, addressing the white person as "Mr. John" or "Miss Mary."
Yet, someone in an earlier post had the nerve to call Alice Walker a bitter woman, after she described this as a part of her life. They spoke of how she "should behave" which, I found ironic under the circumstances. Whites have to have the courage to admit they (collectively) created the game and made the rules, and they gained advantage, even if it was nothing more than a good paying union job or an FHA home.

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» Truth in history Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Truth in history Posted by: desidid
» RE: Truth in history Posted by: YogiBear
Is It So Hard?
Posted by: westomoon on Apr 3, 2008 5:22 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is it so hard to let a famous author talk about the reality that shaped her understanding of the world? People in the comments have called her experience "false" -- for heaven's sake, it really was that way in the South up into the seventies, and she really did live it. How can that be false? Why is it so hard to let ourselves listen to what it was like for this tremendous intellect -- who, by the way, has written plenty that spoke to me and for me, a white Northern woman, and whose work is so deeply about the human heart, not just about racial grievances. But she does have the scars of racism -- why do we feel the need to deny them?

Why is it so hard to imagine that people might like or dislike Hillary for who she is, not for her race or gender? I look at Hillary and see a person whose attitudes, reactions, and affiliations I dislike very much. I am a white woman, pretty much the same age as Hillary, and a longtime feminist and populist. It breaks my heart that I can't support the first "serious" woman candidate, but who she is as a person trumps her gender for me.

Is it so hard to understand that Obama's distinctive personality transcends his race for a tremendous number of his supporters? I know that those who don't "get" him, including the Clinton camp, seem to feel that he is somehow cheating, and that race is somehow a part of that cheating.

But Obama actually has taken us down -- rationally, compassionately, with eyes wide open -- into the roots of the oldest red herring of all in our culture, race being used to inspire poor people to act against their own best interests, and reminded us that the common good is more important.

That may not be "progressive" enough for a lot of the commenters here, but for me, it is the very root of the progressive world view. We are all created equal, and we are all entitled to a decent life. If someone arises who can actually help us to reconnect with the reality of that, who reminds us that the small many can, and should, be as powerful as the large few, and who makes people comfortable again that they are valuable as part of America -- what more do we need?

Well, we also need a good solid Democratic Congress that is willing to do its Constitutional job, but if they are working with a President who can keep reminding us of our commonalities, of our basic decency, and of our great experiment in democracy and equality, we will be in the best possible stance to deal with the unimaginable hardships of the near future. That's what Alice Walker was trying to talk about here.

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» Is It So Hard? Posted by: YogiBear
Wonderfully written but ............
Posted by: Ky Lake Dave on Apr 4, 2008 9:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What I got from the article was Alice Walker telling me that we should vote for Obama because he is black. She said he is a wonderful human being. Other that being a beautiful human being and being black she gave no reasons to vote for Obama. Ms. Walker did not tell us of one accomplishment that Obama has made. Not one bill he has written or supported. Ms Walker talks of white privilege as a rally to vote against Mrs. Clinton.
I read her article and was proud of my white history. I am of American Indian and German decent, more Indian than German. But I am thought of by most that see me as a nicely tanned white man. I read of Ms. Walker growing up in Mississippi and thought of how far our country has come. I realized how wonderfully far our white and black relations have come together. Most Americans do not see in Black and white terms anymore. The racists of both sides would argue with me, but those of us in the workforce, dealing with the American public, see clients not colors. Ms Walker and I are far apart politically but what a wonderful writer she is! She is obviously a very classy lady. We can disagree without the name calling and the demeaning of each other’s beliefs and opinions. I really like this lady. Go McCain 08!

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Looking at the Big Picture
Posted by: Rosasharn on Apr 4, 2008 2:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Everybody is gonna have to think BIG. OUR situation demands that we put our differences aside. I don't think either candidate is as strong alone as they would be together (talking Hill and Barack). Both candidates together, that's right, black and blonde; female and male. Realistically, they hold the majority of voters when COMBINED. We need them united in order to defeat the GOP. As the song goes 'Come on , people, smile on your brother, EVERYBODY get together, TRY to LOVE one another, RIGHT NOW'. This is THE election, people. Let's not let it slip through our fingers! The FUTURE depends on it!
P.S. Alice, Am sorry AND love you.

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Crazy old white woman for Obama!
Posted by: lovetoread on Apr 4, 2008 7:38 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a moderately poor white woman over the age of 50 I would like to say that was a great article! and I agree! I too have some of the same reservations as Ms. Walker, but I too feel that Obama is the most likely to address the needs in the country and the world, with diplomacy and insight. I would like to vote for a woman, but not Hillary, I do not think she would represent me. And call me crazy but I think Obama would represent me. As the saying currently goes, We Can Change the World. I am really hoping Obama will help us make that happen.

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race
Posted by: joze46 on Apr 5, 2008 11:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Race is the problem with America it is not working well. It is funny when one could travel through a black area’s in any city and view burned out churches one should wonder where the Black believes in. Christianity is literally is burn down by the very people that start it up. Take family values, Black women are in a fifty percent divorce rate. Drugs are abused at an alarming rate and black work ethics are difficult to define. There is no leadership to encourage a white family to move in to a black area. There is no educational leadership in a majority way through the centuries where blacks take white under their wing to create things like affirmative action. Actually if one looks at history in depth Slavery was much predominated is an original culture in black society way before Jesus.So, what could have happened to whites in that age happen to blacks this age. I have a dream why is it that black dreams more important than mine. Thought we were equal, guess not.

One thing is clear Obama is following the Clinton Leadership power curve. For what ever you want to believe is yours to believe, but from my view I do not see any anything very original or new from Obama. All this change the page in history, or we can’t wait all sounds like a child on a rant. Sorry but most all first line Journalist across the spectrum have been fine tuned into contextual word artists that have a single pursuit which is to keep Hillary out of the White House.

Everything and anything the Clinton’s do is discussed as divisive, racist, or her camp is filled with horrible arguments or indecisiveness. All which has the Media again leading America’s bias and fixing the election especially MSNBC. Just as the 2000 election should not have happen on a decision of the Supreme Court is still obvious we are not stupid but a sick society basically the cause of a few elite and powerful drive with the help of the media. It is pretty obvious the real change in America would likely come from Hillary Clinton being in the White House rather than Obama.

It is a concerted effort by many of the old hard line political and corporate leadership that has bought America to where it is now. This is a horrible state of affairs. Huge mistakes have been made, here, the cultural economic slide the Republicans have made so far including mainstream media with the paradox of defining victory under the continuing ideal to relax torture as acceptable is showing what many think out there, that American’s have devalued a core culture of morality. Or American’s are getting stupid. Sometimes one could believe that it was done on purpose to see how totally obnoxious those in power could push the status envelope in moral authority to evil fascist purposes. The same goes for all that tax cutting at the time of war. Look at history and most war needed some revenue base to continue. To me it appears the Republicans with the help of those complicit Democrats have been making so many bad decisions the consequences are choking the economy on purpose. And they know it.

Obama is a nice guy but he is a puppy playing with a lot of big dogs and they play to win. The corporations are liar’s cheaters, and have turned America on its head, especially mainstream Media. The education system is corrupt and loaded with bias corruption and divisiveness, not just on the teachers Union side but prolific and obnoxious on the educational administrative side, way out of control. Why I say that? Look around you the majority of major government operations are of college education that does not work for the six pack Joe electorate.

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» RE: race Posted by: paul15260
Yup!
Posted by: talkville on Apr 6, 2008 5:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To quote, albeit in another vein, Alberto Gonzalez' memo, how 'quaint' to refer to this historical attitude on the part of 'whites' as dishonest. It is a long-held, very long-held, conceit -- a downright LIE upheld as Truth since the days of Plato! Back then, free Greeks in the Polis were 'pure spirits', Masters and distinct in ALL particulars from 'barbarians', outsiders, slaves and others. They were 'breeds of the gods'. Particularly those Neo-platonic very Christian 'races' of England, Spain,France, Germany and Europa gathered under that 1st Reich, the Holy Roman Empire, held to this LIE tenaciously. A great Revival in the 19th Century infused 'modern' considerations into the Lie (it had friends and mentors as far away as the USA!). A platonic LIE was dressed in glorious and sterile and very clinical Scientistic Garb. Still today there are those who insist: lies are truths--more than one would care to admit (theories have a way of trickling down into popularizations; such things take time and patience and nurturance subtle, silent and persevering).

Even the proclivity to suddenly portray Obama in a Negation-Role is but a subtle variation on techniques to maintain the Positive side of the racism emanating from that 'white' side of analysis-- of course politely, soberly, a bit more liberally and less blatant. But beneath these discourses if one listens closely always throbs that pumping assertion of the LIE. "OK, let's talk about it, but I have the prerogative of determining the frame and the structure and the content of the discussion and steer it into an acceptable form -- for me".

In the West all the other 'racisms' of ethnic or identity varieties are moved by many other considerations and are responses and results to conditions, social cultural economic and political that have to be met and confronted. They move on the axis of Equality-Inequality and not on the abcissa of Supremacy-Subjection. That abcissa has a much longer and more constant and inflexible history. To shift the discussion over to the dynamics of race in Obama's campaign is a deft move to shift attention, that's all. It keeps the lie being true. Dishonest? Yup. Still is after all these years -- 2008+ or so to be exact.

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» RE: Yup! Posted by: YogiBear
I'm voting for today's Number One issue
Posted by: asilsfable on Apr 7, 2008 7:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...and that issue is our economy.

The war will end because we can't afford it. And a failing economy WILL hurt people of color (specifically mothers of color) FAR more than any other sector---though I must say that this time there'll be plenty to go around.

Decisive moves must be taken to keep us from the freefall that's coming. I don't see Obama doing that--given his flippant comments about 3 month moratoriums on foreclosures not making a difference and his anemic responses to very acute problems that must be handled right away.

The war certainly isn't helping, but it is not causing the collapse that's coming. It will end because we cannot fund it any longer.

Normally, I'd be all over Obama's rhetoric. He seems a decent man and wants to address and restart the conversation about things that have been left on the back burner.

But Hillary is better on the economy--especially her response to it. Disheartened as I am by the rancor and attacks, her ideas are well thought out and the best out of the three candidates overall.

Go to a welfare office and take a look around at what you see. Hope is useless without food in your belly (and for your kids) and a place to sleep.

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For the heck of it
Posted by: Balanz on Apr 9, 2008 8:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I suspect that after so long, this will not be read but I need to say after reading so many of these comments, I find it interesting how so many of the comments are about the commentors without acknowleging Walker's valid statements.

Sexism is real - and so is racism. Classism is real - and so is racism. They are not mutually exclusive. In the language of self-help, I am a recovering racist, sexist, classist, straightist, etc having come by all of these problems honestly. I was socialized in a country heavily influenced by them all, my personal background notwithstanding.

Why can't we admit that?
Why do we think our personal pain absolves us from causing pain in others?
Why do we ignore our current, unearned advantages, and from a global perspective there are many, that are the direct result of the disadvantage of others?

No matter who will be president we will need to deal with this sooner or later, personally and collectively; or we can some day be Spain (It used to be the religiously supported, economically bankrupt superpower too). The facists there used the old sense of glory and entitlement (and the church) to overthrow a democratic government, set up a dictatorship in Europe and keep it until Franco's death. Much was made possible by the ignorance many there had for discomforts other than their own.

It is sad how pervasive comparative tragedy is among us, without acknowleging the personal and collective need for change.

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