COMMENTS: 91
Will Hillary Clinton Spoil the Party?
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Is Hillary Clinton’s willing to sacrifice that possibility in order to preserve a tiny possibility that she'll get the nomination? With her win in Ohio and projected win in Texas, that seems so. In the days leading up to the Ohio and Texas primaries, we had Hillary Clinton's statement that both she and McCain have the experience to be Commander-in-Chief but Obama doesn't.
This is the first time in my memory that a major candidate in a primary has said that the other party's nominee would be a better president than his or her own primary opponent. We also had the outpouring of negative advertising from her campaign that both candidates had largely managed to avoid up to this point.
And while I can understand her decision -- bolstered by yesterday's results -- to fight on in this primary election, the reality is that she can only win by convincing large numbers of superdelegates to join her and re-engineering the Michigan and Florida primaries to her advantage, and then taking the fight all the way to the convention in August -- which if she gets that far, will be one of the most divisive in forty years.
I suppose I should not be surprised. If Hillary Clinton has experience in anything, it's in fighting when cornered. When Bill Clinton lost his governorship, it was Hillary Clinton who commissioned Dick Morris to advise the Clintons on a no-holds-barred campaign to retake the governor's mansion. At the start of 1995, when Newt Gingrich and company took over Congress and the Clinton administration looked in danger of becoming irrelevant, it was Hillary Clinton who installed Dick Morris in the White House, along with his sidekick Mark Penn, to "triangulate" by distancing Bill Clinton from the Democratic Party and moving the Administration rightward. (When Morris was subsequently discovered to have a penchant for the toes of prostitutes the White House dumped him but kept Penn on.) And now Mark Penn is the "chief strategist" of Hillary Clinton's campaign.
The sad news is that whether the Clinton scorched-earth strategy ultimately succeeds or fails, it will have caused great harm. In the unlikely event it succeeds, the result will be a shame and not a little ironic. Barack Obama has breathed life into the Democratic Party, and into American politics, for the first time in forty years. Not since Robert Kennedy ran for president has America been so starkly summoned to its ideals; not since then has America -- including, especially, the nation’s youth -- been so inspired.
The Clintons would prefer to write off Obamania as a passing fad, but the reality is that idealism and inspiration are necessary preconditions for positive social change. Nothing happens in Washington unless Americans are energized and mobilized to make it happen. Hillary Clinton's tactics are the old politics the nation is recoiling from -- internal division and national fear. This only serves to deepen Americans' cynicism about politics, and makes social change all the harder to achieve.
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Posted by: Meg_08 on Mar 7, 2008 2:26 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Secondly, the popular votes between the two candidates is almost equal, and if you consider the votes casted in Florida and Michigan, she indeed leads in the popular vote. I think that the democrats should revisit their proportional distributions votes, as it is really not proportional and objective. She indeed should more delegates that she has obtained in this race. Therefore, I believe that she has earned the right to fight for people who believe in her ardently, decisively, and honestly.
I think that this race is about the best candidate. I have studied Mr. Obama. I am sorry to say but his dossier is very thin, and unimpressive. I respect people with courage and Mr. Obama did not earn my respects when I read about his history of votes, and his lack of courage whenever there was a meaningful vote (e.g., Iran's vote, arm, etc). As a strong anti-war advocate, I was not very pleased with Ms. Clinton vote, but at least I respected the fact that she made a decision and took responsibility for it. Mr. Obama in many many occasion, as noted above, did not have the guts to face a challenging issue.
I am sorry HIllary does not hurt the party. She is the only one who can deliver a win for democrats in the next election, as did her husband, THE ONLY democratic president who was elected twice.
Please be kind and objective to the most qualified person in this race, Ms. Clinton - a brilliant woman with multifaceted expertise, courage, know-how, determination, and .... all is that is good with a liberated woman.
Cordially.
A Canadian Colleague.
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» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: g50
» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: Tramaine
» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: no1kstate
» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: g50
» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: jimmyD29
» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: jareilly
» Canadians For McCain
Posted by: RegK
» RE: Canadians For McCain
Posted by: aonghus36
» Obama has a thin dossier? - and a great link
Posted by: ruscle
» Obama is Less Corrupted Then Hillary
Posted by: sofla100
» Respectfully none of us are objective anymore
Posted by: jebpgh
» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: mangomandarin
» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: dangerouslysane
» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: desidid
» RE:And Hillary's Flag Burning Bill ?
Posted by: mmckinl
» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: bessie
» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: FastEddy
» RE: respectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: dangerouslysane
» Respectfully, get objective!
Posted by: foreverhope
» ADVICE TO OBAMA CAMPAIGN: GO NEGATIVE, BUT NOT PERSONAL.
Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: LillianB
» RE: respectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: rjpercy
» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: BlueDiva
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Posted by: g50 on Mar 7, 2008 2:29 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: She's bad people
Posted by: Tramaine
» RE: She's bad people
Posted by: g50
» RE: She's bad people
Posted by: dangerouslysane
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Posted by: ruscle on Mar 7, 2008 2:55 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: OHIO DO-OVER
Posted by: desidid
» RE: OHIO DO-OVER
Posted by: LillianB
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Posted by: braxxian1 on Mar 7, 2008 3:10 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maby Obama has a point, maby experience is overrated. Maby America need someone in the White House who isn't so "experienced", maby that person won't screw up as badly as the so called old hands have done.
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» RE: xperience??
Posted by: John Edward
» Barack has experience yes, and wisdom
Posted by: foreverhope
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Posted by: Tramaine on Mar 7, 2008 3:12 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
of the nomination process.
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» RE: Huh?
Posted by: Fishbone Soldier
» Exactly!
Posted by: RobNLA
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: rinpochet
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: FastEddy
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: LillianB
» RE: Hillary did NOT say McCain was better candidate than Obama
Posted by: mustaang
» ahhhhh....yeah she did
Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: ahhhhh....yeah she did
Posted by: mustaang
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: BlueDiva
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Posted by: jacksmith on Mar 7, 2008 3:30 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hillary Clinton has actually won by much larger margins than the votes showed. And lost by much smaller vote margins than the vote totals show. And her delegate count is actually much higher than it shows. And higher than Obama's.
Maybe the media, and some sharp, aggressive investigative reporters, and academics would like to look into this. I hear there has been an astonishingly high rate of this type of cheating of the DEMOCRATIC primary voters going on. Few if any of these Republican voters plan to vote for Obama in November.
Sounds like a major scandal to me. And what can the DNC, and the super delegates do to correct this outrage against Hillary Clinton, the Democratic party, and the Democratic process.
Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama:
Dear Madam, and Sir,
A Hillary Clinton, and Barack Obama ticket is what we want. And that is what we need to take back the Whitehouse. We want a smart, tough, idealistic, seasoned veteran of many battles fighting for the American people (Hillary Clinton). With a young, passionate, smart, open-minded, hard-working idealist fighting for the American people (Barrack Obama). The DREAM TEAM!
You are both fabulous candidates. And we, the American people are very fortunate to have each of you. Taking back the Whitehouse is critical for the American people, and the world at this time. And I think the American people have been saying loudly, and clearly that a Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama ticket is the best way to do this.
I think the American people have made it very clear that they feel Hillary Clinton is the one best able to lead the ticket against John McCain at this critical, and desperate time in America, and around the world. These dramatic comebacks are testament to Hillary Clinton's skill, and experience as a fighter for the American people. They are also a testament to the strong desire of the American people to have both of you fighting for the American people at this time of midnight in America.
Typical of the Clinton's is an uncanny ability to see and understand what the American people want. And then to try and get it for them. Even if they have to go through three political near death experiences to try and get it for the American people. This is classic Clinton's. They are the best I have ever seen.
We are desperate out here. Millions of us are suffering greatly. And tens of thousands of us are dying needlessly every year. Men, women, children, and babies. We need help! As Hillary Clinton said "It's not a game". We need the two of you together on our side fighting for us, and for the American dream for all. Not fighting against each other anymore.
It's time for you Senator Obama to join forces with Hillary Clinton as her running mate so that we can all focus our energies, and resources on taking back America for the American people.
Sincerely
Jacksmith...
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» RE: This was boring the FIRST time around, Jack.
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: There are Republican votes and Republican votes...
Posted by: Fishbone Soldier
» Actually, Republicans are now voting for Hillary (ask Rush)
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Actually, Republicans are now voting for Hillary (ask Rush)
Posted by: jacksmith
» Junk Food Math
Posted by: hurricane hugo
» NOT EVEN!
Posted by: AltB
» RE: Some Food For Thought
Posted by: LillianB
» RE: It's 11:15 pm-do you know where your tax dollar is?
Posted by: dangerouslysane
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Posted by: Dinalina on Mar 7, 2008 3:37 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Feel the same way
Posted by: lasarte-oria
» RE: Destroying the party? Yes
Posted by: dangerouslysane
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Posted by: arieden on Mar 7, 2008 3:50 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Irony: we want feminist to quietly bow out for the man
Posted by: Dinalina
» RE: THE CATCH--
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Irony: we want feminist to quietly bow out for the man
Posted by: Fishbone Soldier
» RE: Irony: we want feminist to quietly bow out for the man
Posted by: jareilly
» RE: Irony: we want feminist to quietly bow out for the man
Posted by: dangerouslysane
» RE: Irony: we want feminist to quietly bow out for the man
Posted by: AltB
» RE: Irony: we find out that one girl's bad at math
Posted by: hurricane hugo
» RE: Irony: we want feminist to quietly bow out for the man
Posted by: robgo2
» Irony: Can a woman only win by playing the victim?
Posted by: abrunvand
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Posted by: HeKnew on Mar 7, 2008 4:51 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's it?
Government of the people, by the people and for the people.
Direct Democracy
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Mar 7, 2008 5:38 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
See National Poll: McCain Loses To Obama, Clinton, Washington Post, March 5, 2008
"llinois Sen. Barack Obama leads McCain, who captured the delegates needed to claim the Republican nomination Tuesday night, by 12 percentage points among all adults in the poll.; Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.) enjoys a six-point lead over the presumptive GOP nominee. Both Democrats are buoyed by moderates and independents in the head-to-heads and benefit from sustained negative public assessments of President Bush and the war in Iraq."
Who is responsible for the massive Democratic turnout? It's either Barak Obama or GW Bush, you can be sure of that.
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» RE: In the polls, Obama consistently beats McCain by a wider margin than Hillary.
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: AlexLawyer on Mar 7, 2008 5:51 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At a time when we face unprecedented military, economic, constitutional, diplomatic and environmental crises we don't need yet another divisive, triangulating, hardball-playing politician; we need someone who can unite, inspire and uplift people, and Obama is clearly superior. If he is the lightweight she asserts he is, why did Kennedy, Dodd, Leahy and other venerable statesmen endorse him?
While Hillary Clinton would be better than GW Bush--almost anybody would--we can and should do better.
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» RE: Hillary, Shrillery
Posted by: AltB
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Posted by: AltB on Mar 7, 2008 6:25 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: thinkverybig on Mar 7, 2008 6:40 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Hillary Clinton is BAD NEWS!
Posted by: dangerouslysane
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Posted by: bessie on Mar 7, 2008 7:45 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: onevoter on Mar 7, 2008 8:03 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She was First Lady of Arkansas for 12 years and First Lady of the U.S. for 8 years. That's 20 of her "35".
So, it leaves 15 years. She had one 6 year term as the junior senator from New York, and is in the second year of her second term, although she hasn't done much except run around the country trying to convince people that she has "35 years of experience".
Well, let's give her the benefit of the doubt and say 8 years in the Senate. That leaves only 7 more "years of experience" that she can somehow try to claim. Let's see...worked for the Rose Law Firm and sat on the Board of Wal-Mart. There's your experience.
So, I guess that allows her to claim she has passed the "threshold for commander-in-chief". Someone please stick a pin in her inflated baloon of an ego--QUICK...before she takes the Democratic party and the election down with her....
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» RE: Hillary's "35 years of experience"....
Posted by: John Edward
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Posted by: georgiaorwell on Mar 8, 2008 12:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One thing I'll give Hillary. She uses the media constantly to offer a daily, FREE press attack soundbite with smear and spinipulation against Barack Obama. The press lives for controversy and they snap it up, giving her free publicity along the way - every day. This happens to be really working for her as it saves her money.
While we're at it, people need to clearly understand that there will NEVER be a combo ticket with Obama-Clinton or Clinton-Obama. It would be a disaster, and it's definitely not a dream ticket as some have proposed. Clinton would send Obama, if he were VP, to the far reaches of Siberia for 4 years so she never had to look at or listen to him. If Obama were President, he would have to contend with her pugnaciousness on a daily basis. Besides, Clinton would rather run with McCain, in any event, rather than with another Democrat - remember, she was once a Republican and has never really departed from her roots. I don't think she's one party or another - she only is wanting control of the highest office and will do anything or say anything to get it. (You know, like Joe Lieberman).
As a female, I'm sickened by her leadership disingenuousness. As a person striving for ethics, I'm sickened by her lying smears and her lack of morals. Obama is clearly trying to take the high road, but right now he must avoid constantly having to react to her charges daily; instead he must go on the offensive. She figures if she pushes Obama to the ropes and just keeps punching, eventually she will knock him out. While Obama is strongest talking about hope and change, he must start with his own daily press sound bites and the time is now. Alternating inspirational speeches wtih his own strong counterpunches is his best strategy right now.
Clinton at present is like a candidate on the Apprentice that when faced with potentially being fired by Trump, just fights to the death verbally, hoping she can wear down her opponent. In fact, she has come to act like Omarosa to me. Obama better start drawing a clear picture to voters of a very specific vision voters can see and look forward to under his leadership and there's no time to be wasted doing that. I also love Clinton's lack of creativity - always borrowing everything Obama says, projecting her immoral acts on him, and trying to split the Party. This is the last go-round for the US in the world's eyes. We look like and have become a rogue nation, and believe me, the world is watching this election with strong interest. Sadly, Clinton is reinforcing the Europeans' already sad belief that the US has lost its way morally.
Footnote: to Meg_8: (Canadian Clinton supporter and university professor) - surely there is no such word as you used: "casted" or is the English language in professorial circles different in Canada?
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» He doesn't have to look far
Posted by: Balanz
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Posted by: left_libertarian on Mar 9, 2008 7:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She make George Bush's day in his quest for war and less freedom.
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Posted by: data23 on Mar 9, 2008 3:53 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: In answer to the question...
Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» RE: In answer to the question...
Posted by: BlueDiva
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Posted by: BlueDiva on Mar 10, 2008 2:57 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: nanabettie on Mar 10, 2008 6:29 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: BayAreaVoter on Mar 10, 2008 8:44 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
His main supporters are part of a personality cult and will not even help the rest of the ticket in the GE if he gets the nomination. Look at the stats from Texas--most voted for him and ignored the rest of the ticket in the districts he won (see Dallas Morning News).
Hillary's supporters are solid Dems and will bring the whole ticket with them in November. Go Hillary!
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Posted by: mustaang on Mar 10, 2008 11:18 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What Clinton said does NOT = "McCain would make a better President than Obama."
What she said was actually unarguable: that she & McCain have more Washington experience. And the implication was ‘wouldn't you want the candidate with more background in this job to take the position?’ That's pretty standard fair and entirely factual and obvious, so she is not giving the McCain party new ideas or ammunition to attack with.
Obama's campaign is NOT about his experience but about his "new vision" in a country that rightfully is a government FOR the people BY the people. You don't have to have been in the White House to take the job.
So if you'd ask Hillary if she was saying McCain would make a better president than Obama, she'd give you the stare with her eyes that says, "Do I really NEED to EXPLAIN this?"
Because what is first and foremost OBVIOUS is that Clinton shares the ideals, beliefs, passion for social causes and direction that Obama has, to (estimated by Obama himself) 95% similarity.
THAT is what is primary to the consideration of who someone believes should be President.
It is fascinating that so many here are concerned with Clinton falsifying statements and playing illusion politics. But look in the mirror. YOU are falsifying the record right here, and its a little disturbing. If you stand by Obama, have integrity yourself. Don't pretend that Clinton is throwing the party under the bus to make her own political points. That is false, and it is obvious.
Let’s stop 'dividing the democratic party' (as Obama folks are all saying about Hillary) by buying into hype created by the media that wants to manipulate its viewers by hyperbolizing & out-contexting candidate remarks. If they make a big deal about something, the viewership will keep watching & help their ratings. But the amount of you that were unable to 'read' the errant jump in logic to her trumping Mccain over Obama is disheartening.
Obama and his supporters will need to be much tougher than that to handle the challenges ahead. But then again, maybe you lack the experience of judgment to see that, which is Hillary Clinton's point.
Clinton is not a perfect candidate, but she certainly could have run for President back in 2004, and decided to stay the course and gain experience for a job of many requirements and pressures. She waited until she built her qualifications even more before deciding she was prepared for the country's highest office. Obama decided to rush right in and saw himself fit for the job without spending more time seeing how everything works, and how to best position his vision for success in the real world. And maybe that risk will bear fruit and he will be magnificent. But Clinton is not wrong to point out she's not a freshman.
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Posted by: LeeAnnG on Mar 10, 2008 11:18 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'd put aside my aversion to the idea of the majority of Americans under yet another Clinton presidency would have only ever known presidents with the names Bush and Clinton.
I could even ignore my objections to the first Clinton presidency with its Republican lite agenda. After all, the alternative was "bomb bomb bomb..." Not a pleasant thought.
And then I heard (paraphrased here) "Senator McCain is qualified and experienced. I am experienced and qualified. Senator Obama has only one speech that he made in 2002. That's his total platform."
"Oh. My. God.!" I thought. "Hillary Clinton just really screwed up and said something she didn't mean to say. Because she actually said that her Republican rival is more qualified than her Democratic rival!" And then I went on to realize that she'd also equated McCain's prisoner of war experiences with her tenure as First Lady, because other than that, all three have very similar backgrounds as senators and politicians.
I expected an apology or some kind of explanation. But no! Instead, I heard two more versions of exactly the same speech. I've only heard about the assertion that Obama is "not a Muslim. As far as I know." And I did see the red phone ad, which is more pathetic and stupid than scary. But it's still an indication of Hillary Clinton's character. Or lack thereof.
Clinton will not get my vote. I realize that a McCain presidency is a high price to pay for what I consider to be my own integrity, but Clinton really is a "monster," which I do not believe is too great an exaggeration.
She has given the republicans an incredible campaign line, "Even Obama's democratic opponent endorsed Senator McCain over him!" If she gets the nomination, her character will be the issue. "How can this person be loyal to America if she can't even be loyal to her own party?"
I'll write in Kucinich or someone else, but I will never, ever vote for Hillary Clinton.
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Posted by: SKPython on Mar 10, 2008 3:42 PM
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Posted by: karak on Mar 13, 2008 12:50 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hillary Clinton never said McCain would make a better president. How can you in good conscience lead with that assertion? She merely made the very legitimate case that McCain is more experienced than the first-term junior senator. That's not opinion. It's a fact that strkes at the electability issue we're all so concerned about. And you can bet your last dime that this fact will not go unnoticed in the fall campaign.
I respectfuilly ask that you retract your false comments, Mr. Reich.
As for the power to inspire, you bet, it's a prerequisite for change. But change doesn't happen in a vacuum, by oratorical magic. The other prerequisite for change is ability to implement it with real ideas. So far I have yet to hear one inspiring idea from Obama. Great speeches never inspired his fellow Senators to action. What notworthy accomplishment does he have to brag about? Shrill empty words can only take you so far. Looks like he reached that limit.
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» RE: Please don't distort the facts
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: Meg_08 on Mar 7, 2008 2:26 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Secondly, the popular votes between the two candidates is almost equal, and if you consider the votes casted in Florida and Michigan, she indeed leads in the popular vote. I think that the democrats should revisit their proportional distributions votes, as it is really not proportional and objective. She indeed should more delegates that she has obtained in this race. Therefore, I believe that she has earned the right to fight for people who believe in her ardently, decisively, and honestly.
I think that this race is about the best candidate. I have studied Mr. Obama. I am sorry to say but his dossier is very thin, and unimpressive. I respect people with courage and Mr. Obama did not earn my respects when I read about his history of votes, and his lack of courage whenever there was a meaningful vote (e.g., Iran's vote, arm, etc). As a strong anti-war advocate, I was not very pleased with Ms. Clinton vote, but at least I respected the fact that she made a decision and took responsibility for it. Mr. Obama in many many occasion, as noted above, did not have the guts to face a challenging issue.
I am sorry HIllary does not hurt the party. She is the only one who can deliver a win for democrats in the next election, as did her husband, THE ONLY democratic president who was elected twice.
Please be kind and objective to the most qualified person in this race, Ms. Clinton - a brilliant woman with multifaceted expertise, courage, know-how, determination, and .... all is that is good with a liberated woman.
Cordially.
A Canadian Colleague.
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» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: g50
» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: Tramaine
» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: no1kstate
» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: g50
» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: jimmyD29
» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: jareilly
» Canadians For McCain
Posted by: RegK
» RE: Canadians For McCain
Posted by: aonghus36
» Obama has a thin dossier? - and a great link
Posted by: ruscle
» Obama is Less Corrupted Then Hillary
Posted by: sofla100
» Respectfully none of us are objective anymore
Posted by: jebpgh
» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: mangomandarin
» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: dangerouslysane
» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: desidid
» RE:And Hillary's Flag Burning Bill ?
Posted by: mmckinl
» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: bessie
» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: FastEddy
» RE: respectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: dangerouslysane
» Respectfully, get objective!
Posted by: foreverhope
» ADVICE TO OBAMA CAMPAIGN: GO NEGATIVE, BUT NOT PERSONAL.
Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: LillianB
» RE: respectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: rjpercy
» RE: espectfully, you are not objective!
Posted by: BlueDiva
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Posted by: g50 on Mar 7, 2008 2:29 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: She's bad people
Posted by: Tramaine
» RE: She's bad people
Posted by: g50
» RE: She's bad people
Posted by: dangerouslysane
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Posted by: ruscle on Mar 7, 2008 2:55 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: OHIO DO-OVER
Posted by: desidid
» RE: OHIO DO-OVER
Posted by: LillianB
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Posted by: braxxian1 on Mar 7, 2008 3:10 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maby Obama has a point, maby experience is overrated. Maby America need someone in the White House who isn't so "experienced", maby that person won't screw up as badly as the so called old hands have done.
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» RE: xperience??
Posted by: John Edward
» Barack has experience yes, and wisdom
Posted by: foreverhope
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Posted by: Tramaine on Mar 7, 2008 3:12 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
of the nomination process.
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» RE: Huh?
Posted by: Fishbone Soldier
» Exactly!
Posted by: RobNLA
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: rinpochet
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: FastEddy
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: LillianB
» RE: Hillary did NOT say McCain was better candidate than Obama
Posted by: mustaang
» ahhhhh....yeah she did
Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: ahhhhh....yeah she did
Posted by: mustaang
» RE: Huh?
Posted by: BlueDiva
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Posted by: jacksmith on Mar 7, 2008 3:30 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hillary Clinton has actually won by much larger margins than the votes showed. And lost by much smaller vote margins than the vote totals show. And her delegate count is actually much higher than it shows. And higher than Obama's.
Maybe the media, and some sharp, aggressive investigative reporters, and academics would like to look into this. I hear there has been an astonishingly high rate of this type of cheating of the DEMOCRATIC primary voters going on. Few if any of these Republican voters plan to vote for Obama in November.
Sounds like a major scandal to me. And what can the DNC, and the super delegates do to correct this outrage against Hillary Clinton, the Democratic party, and the Democratic process.
Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama:
Dear Madam, and Sir,
A Hillary Clinton, and Barack Obama ticket is what we want. And that is what we need to take back the Whitehouse. We want a smart, tough, idealistic, seasoned veteran of many battles fighting for the American people (Hillary Clinton). With a young, passionate, smart, open-minded, hard-working idealist fighting for the American people (Barrack Obama). The DREAM TEAM!
You are both fabulous candidates. And we, the American people are very fortunate to have each of you. Taking back the Whitehouse is critical for the American people, and the world at this time. And I think the American people have been saying loudly, and clearly that a Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama ticket is the best way to do this.
I think the American people have made it very clear that they feel Hillary Clinton is the one best able to lead the ticket against John McCain at this critical, and desperate time in America, and around the world. These dramatic comebacks are testament to Hillary Clinton's skill, and experience as a fighter for the American people. They are also a testament to the strong desire of the American people to have both of you fighting for the American people at this time of midnight in America.
Typical of the Clinton's is an uncanny ability to see and understand what the American people want. And then to try and get it for them. Even if they have to go through three political near death experiences to try and get it for the American people. This is classic Clinton's. They are the best I have ever seen.
We are desperate out here. Millions of us are suffering greatly. And tens of thousands of us are dying needlessly every year. Men, women, children, and babies. We need help! As Hillary Clinton said "It's not a game". We need the two of you together on our side fighting for us, and for the American dream for all. Not fighting against each other anymore.
It's time for you Senator Obama to join forces with Hillary Clinton as her running mate so that we can all focus our energies, and resources on taking back America for the American people.
Sincerely
Jacksmith...
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» RE: This was boring the FIRST time around, Jack.
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: There are Republican votes and Republican votes...
Posted by: Fishbone Soldier
» Actually, Republicans are now voting for Hillary (ask Rush)
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Actually, Republicans are now voting for Hillary (ask Rush)
Posted by: jacksmith
» Junk Food Math
Posted by: hurricane hugo
» NOT EVEN!
Posted by: AltB
» RE: Some Food For Thought
Posted by: LillianB
» RE: It's 11:15 pm-do you know where your tax dollar is?
Posted by: dangerouslysane
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Posted by: Dinalina on Mar 7, 2008 3:37 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Feel the same way
Posted by: lasarte-oria
» RE: Destroying the party? Yes
Posted by: dangerouslysane
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Posted by: arieden on Mar 7, 2008 3:50 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Irony: we want feminist to quietly bow out for the man
Posted by: Dinalina
» RE: THE CATCH--
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Irony: we want feminist to quietly bow out for the man
Posted by: Fishbone Soldier
» RE: Irony: we want feminist to quietly bow out for the man
Posted by: jareilly
» RE: Irony: we want feminist to quietly bow out for the man
Posted by: dangerouslysane
» RE: Irony: we want feminist to quietly bow out for the man
Posted by: AltB
» RE: Irony: we find out that one girl's bad at math
Posted by: hurricane hugo
» RE: Irony: we want feminist to quietly bow out for the man
Posted by: robgo2
» Irony: Can a woman only win by playing the victim?
Posted by: abrunvand
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Posted by: HeKnew on Mar 7, 2008 4:51 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's it?
Government of the people, by the people and for the people.
Direct Democracy
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Mar 7, 2008 5:38 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
See National Poll: McCain Loses To Obama, Clinton, Washington Post, March 5, 2008
"llinois Sen. Barack Obama leads McCain, who captured the delegates needed to claim the Republican nomination Tuesday night, by 12 percentage points among all adults in the poll.; Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.) enjoys a six-point lead over the presumptive GOP nominee. Both Democrats are buoyed by moderates and independents in the head-to-heads and benefit from sustained negative public assessments of President Bush and the war in Iraq."
Who is responsible for the massive Democratic turnout? It's either Barak Obama or GW Bush, you can be sure of that.
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» RE: In the polls, Obama consistently beats McCain by a wider margin than Hillary.
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: AlexLawyer on Mar 7, 2008 5:51 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At a time when we face unprecedented military, economic, constitutional, diplomatic and environmental crises we don't need yet another divisive, triangulating, hardball-playing politician; we need someone who can unite, inspire and uplift people, and Obama is clearly superior. If he is the lightweight she asserts he is, why did Kennedy, Dodd, Leahy and other venerable statesmen endorse him?
While Hillary Clinton would be better than GW Bush--almost anybody would--we can and should do better.
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» RE: Hillary, Shrillery
Posted by: AltB
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Posted by: AltB on Mar 7, 2008 6:25 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: thinkverybig on Mar 7, 2008 6:40 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Hillary Clinton is BAD NEWS!
Posted by: dangerouslysane
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Posted by: bessie on Mar 7, 2008 7:45 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: onevoter on Mar 7, 2008 8:03 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She was First Lady of Arkansas for 12 years and First Lady of the U.S. for 8 years. That's 20 of her "35".
So, it leaves 15 years. She had one 6 year term as the junior senator from New York, and is in the second year of her second term, although she hasn't done much except run around the country trying to convince people that she has "35 years of experience".
Well, let's give her the benefit of the doubt and say 8 years in the Senate. That leaves only 7 more "years of experience" that she can somehow try to claim. Let's see...worked for the Rose Law Firm and sat on the Board of Wal-Mart. There's your experience.
So, I guess that allows her to claim she has passed the "threshold for commander-in-chief". Someone please stick a pin in her inflated baloon of an ego--QUICK...before she takes the Democratic party and the election down with her....
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» RE: Hillary's "35 years of experience"....
Posted by: John Edward
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Posted by: georgiaorwell on Mar 8, 2008 12:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One thing I'll give Hillary. She uses the media constantly to offer a daily, FREE press attack soundbite with smear and spinipulation against Barack Obama. The press lives for controversy and they snap it up, giving her free publicity along the way - every day. This happens to be really working for her as it saves her money.
While we're at it, people need to clearly understand that there will NEVER be a combo ticket with Obama-Clinton or Clinton-Obama. It would be a disaster, and it's definitely not a dream ticket as some have proposed. Clinton would send Obama, if he were VP, to the far reaches of Siberia for 4 years so she never had to look at or listen to him. If Obama were President, he would have to contend with her pugnaciousness on a daily basis. Besides, Clinton would rather run with McCain, in any event, rather than with another Democrat - remember, she was once a Republican and has never really departed from her roots. I don't think she's one party or another - she only is wanting control of the highest office and will do anything or say anything to get it. (You know, like Joe Lieberman).
As a female, I'm sickened by her leadership disingenuousness. As a person striving for ethics, I'm sickened by her lying smears and her lack of morals. Obama is clearly trying to take the high road, but right now he must avoid constantly having to react to her charges daily; instead he must go on the offensive. She figures if she pushes Obama to the ropes and just keeps punching, eventually she will knock him out. While Obama is strongest talking about hope and change, he must start with his own daily press sound bites and the time is now. Alternating inspirational speeches wtih his own strong counterpunches is his best strategy right now.
Clinton at present is like a candidate on the Apprentice that when faced with potentially being fired by Trump, just fights to the death verbally, hoping she can wear down her opponent. In fact, she has come to act like Omarosa to me. Obama better start drawing a clear picture to voters of a very specific vision voters can see and look forward to under his leadership and there's no time to be wasted doing that. I also love Clinton's lack of creativity - always borrowing everything Obama says, projecting her immoral acts on him, and trying to split the Party. This is the last go-round for the US in the world's eyes. We look like and have become a rogue nation, and believe me, the world is watching this election with strong interest. Sadly, Clinton is reinforcing the Europeans' already sad belief that the US has lost its way morally.
Footnote: to Meg_8: (Canadian Clinton supporter and university professor) - surely there is no such word as you used: "casted" or is the English language in professorial circles different in Canada?
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» He doesn't have to look far
Posted by: Balanz
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Posted by: left_libertarian on Mar 9, 2008 7:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She make George Bush's day in his quest for war and less freedom.
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Posted by: data23 on Mar 9, 2008 3:53 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: In answer to the question...
Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» RE: In answer to the question...
Posted by: BlueDiva
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Posted by: BlueDiva on Mar 10, 2008 2:57 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: nanabettie on Mar 10, 2008 6:29 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: BayAreaVoter on Mar 10, 2008 8:44 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
His main supporters are part of a personality cult and will not even help the rest of the ticket in the GE if he gets the nomination. Look at the stats from Texas--most voted for him and ignored the rest of the ticket in the districts he won (see Dallas Morning News).
Hillary's supporters are solid Dems and will bring the whole ticket with them in November. Go Hillary!
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Posted by: mustaang on Mar 10, 2008 11:18 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What Clinton said does NOT = "McCain would make a better President than Obama."
What she said was actually unarguable: that she & McCain have more Washington experience. And the implication was ‘wouldn't you want the candidate with more background in this job to take the position?’ That's pretty standard fair and entirely factual and obvious, so she is not giving the McCain party new ideas or ammunition to attack with.
Obama's campaign is NOT about his experience but about his "new vision" in a country that rightfully is a government FOR the people BY the people. You don't have to have been in the White House to take the job.
So if you'd ask Hillary if she was saying McCain would make a better president than Obama, she'd give you the stare with her eyes that says, "Do I really NEED to EXPLAIN this?"
Because what is first and foremost OBVIOUS is that Clinton shares the ideals, beliefs, passion for social causes and direction that Obama has, to (estimated by Obama himself) 95% similarity.
THAT is what is primary to the consideration of who someone believes should be President.
It is fascinating that so many here are concerned with Clinton falsifying statements and playing illusion politics. But look in the mirror. YOU are falsifying the record right here, and its a little disturbing. If you stand by Obama, have integrity yourself. Don't pretend that Clinton is throwing the party under the bus to make her own political points. That is false, and it is obvious.
Let’s stop 'dividing the democratic party' (as Obama folks are all saying about Hillary) by buying into hype created by the media that wants to manipulate its viewers by hyperbolizing & out-contexting candidate remarks. If they make a big deal about something, the viewership will keep watching & help their ratings. But the amount of you that were unable to 'read' the errant jump in logic to her trumping Mccain over Obama is disheartening.
Obama and his supporters will need to be much tougher than that to handle the challenges ahead. But then again, maybe you lack the experience of judgment to see that, which is Hillary Clinton's point.
Clinton is not a perfect candidate, but she certainly could have run for President back in 2004, and decided to stay the course and gain experience for a job of many requirements and pressures. She waited until she built her qualifications even more before deciding she was prepared for the country's highest office. Obama decided to rush right in and saw himself fit for the job without spending more time seeing how everything works, and how to best position his vision for success in the real world. And maybe that risk will bear fruit and he will be magnificent. But Clinton is not wrong to point out she's not a freshman.
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Posted by: LeeAnnG on Mar 10, 2008 11:18 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'd put aside my aversion to the idea of the majority of Americans under yet another Clinton presidency would have only ever known presidents with the names Bush and Clinton.
I could even ignore my objections to the first Clinton presidency with its Republican lite agenda. After all, the alternative was "bomb bomb bomb..." Not a pleasant thought.
And then I heard (paraphrased here) "Senator McCain is qualified and experienced. I am experienced and qualified. Senator Obama has only one speech that he made in 2002. That's his total platform."
"Oh. My. God.!" I thought. "Hillary Clinton just really screwed up and said something she didn't mean to say. Because she actually said that her Republican rival is more qualified than her Democratic rival!" And then I went on to realize that she'd also equated McCain's prisoner of war experiences with her tenure as First Lady, because other than that, all three have very similar backgrounds as senators and politicians.
I expected an apology or some kind of explanation. But no! Instead, I heard two more versions of exactly the same speech. I've only heard about the assertion that Obama is "not a Muslim. As far as I know." And I did see the red phone ad, which is more pathetic and stupid than scary. But it's still an indication of Hillary Clinton's character. Or lack thereof.
Clinton will not get my vote. I realize that a McCain presidency is a high price to pay for what I consider to be my own integrity, but Clinton really is a "monster," which I do not believe is too great an exaggeration.
She has given the republicans an incredible campaign line, "Even Obama's democratic opponent endorsed Senator McCain over him!" If she gets the nomination, her character will be the issue. "How can this person be loyal to America if she can't even be loyal to her own party?"
I'll write in Kucinich or someone else, but I will never, ever vote for Hillary Clinton.
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Posted by: SKPython on Mar 10, 2008 3:42 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: karak on Mar 13, 2008 12:50 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hillary Clinton never said McCain would make a better president. How can you in good conscience lead with that assertion? She merely made the very legitimate case that McCain is more experienced than the first-term junior senator. That's not opinion. It's a fact that strkes at the electability issue we're all so concerned about. And you can bet your last dime that this fact will not go unnoticed in the fall campaign.
I respectfuilly ask that you retract your false comments, Mr. Reich.
As for the power to inspire, you bet, it's a prerequisite for change. But change doesn't happen in a vacuum, by oratorical magic. The other prerequisite for change is ability to implement it with real ideas. So far I have yet to hear one inspiring idea from Obama. Great speeches never inspired his fellow Senators to action. What notworthy accomplishment does he have to brag about? Shrill empty words can only take you so far. Looks like he reached that limit.
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» RE: Please don't distort the facts
Posted by: desidid
MoveOn Launches Campaign for Bold Progressive Reforms as the Obama Era Begins
Obama's Promise of Change Comes Wrapped in Red, White and Blue
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