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Election 2008

Was the Clinton Era Good for the Working Class? Ohio Primary Will Tell

By JoAnn Wypijewski, The Nation. Posted March 1, 2008.


The blue collar vote is on the line in the Buckeye State -- and so is the myth of Clinton-era good times.
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Three weeks before the primary there was hardly a yard sign to be seen for any of the presidential candidates. On the rise of frozen grass in front of Steel Workers Local 1123 bold red, white and blue letters urge Elect Hiles, State Representative. The Local's president, Randy Feemster, wore a T-shirt sporting the same message for Richard Hiles, who worked at the Timken steel plant here for thirty-eight years. "There are Democrats, and there are labor Democrats, you know what I mean?" Feemster said. He is a big man with a thick, powerful build. But "to tell you the truth," he said when we first met, "I feel like a little bird that was flying, flying and then hit the glass, and now I'm just lying there by the window, stunned." The Steel Workers had backed John Edwards, and when he dropped out, Feemster says, "we had our heart broken."

Across town at Communications Workers Local 4302, four out of five workers I spoke with were similarly dashed and undecided. Edwards had shown up on picket lines and at union rallies, embracing issues that, they said, involved them mentally, emotionally, financially. No other candidate has yet picked up that baton with the same conviction, and the CWA International has not endorsed a candidate because its membership is split. One of the workers I met, Blanche McKinney, 59, is backing Hillary Clinton, as is the Local's vice president, Bob Wise. Experience. Problem-solving. Day one. The reasons McKinney gave for her choice are bullet points of the Clinton campaign. And then there's Bill. "I feel Bill gave me eight good years," she said.

The standard narrative of 1990s prosperity, and thus Bill Clinton's most important remaining legacy, is on the line in Ohio's primary. That, as much as Hillary's flagging electoral fortunes, is why Ohio is a must-win for the Clintons. In the same way that South Carolina shattered the myth of Bill as America's first black President, Ohio could shatter the myth of generalized Clinton-era good times.

Other states' primaries might have done the same; Virginia and Wisconsin broke Hillary's presumed lock on the white working-class vote. But for myriad reasons, earlier primaries did not searingly confront the campaigns with the issue of working-class decline. Decline is everywhere apparent in Ohio, where as a direct result of the North American Free Trade Agreement, 45,734 jobs were lost between 1995 and 2003. That only skims the surface of loss, because for every shutdown factory there are concentric bands of devastation, from direct support industries to the small businesses that depended on the custom of hourly workers to the schools that can't win new levies because people are taxed out. NAFTA sliced the skin, and the bleeding continues. After LTV Steel closed in Cleveland in 2001, according to Don Singer, a former official who worked with the state labor department, 3,100 businesses went down with it. Between November 1999 and November 2003, according to Policy Matters Ohio, the state had a net loss of 244,000 nonagricultural jobs. Today Ohio is the seventh-worst state in the country for finding a job.

Local 1123 is down to 2,400 members, while also servicing 6,000 retirees, and neither Obama nor Clinton has an answer for Feemster and other union leaders who again and again concede on wages to maintain company-paid health benefits and retiree pensions. Even before Edwards dropped out, the Democratic Leadership Council was congratulating itself that none of the top contenders favored a single-payer health insurance system, which Feemster supports. Nevertheless, he was waiting to be wooed by one of the candidates.

It is remarkable that, when we met in mid-February, he hadn't been. Stark County is an important swing county, and Feemster has long been key to mobilizing labor support in elections. Elsewhere I met other experienced election organizers whose only contact with the campaigns has come through robocalls. My requests to both campaigns for their county coordinators' contact information went unanswered. It is as if no one had thought that Ohio would matter, that industrial unions would matter; as if these workers who say they often feel forgotten actually have been, even for the cynical aim of vote-rustling. In such circumstances, it is hard to know what might tip a vote. In Feemster's case it was a talk with Bill Clinton versus a meeting with Obama surrogates. The one, he said, gave specific answers to specific questions, even if Feemster didn't always agree; the others, no way as close to their candidate, danced around the issues. "Will Obama do away with NAFTA?" They waffled about legalisms; Bill said Hillary will fix it, and expounded beyond what Feemster had already heard about both candidates from the TV news shows that have become the background music in his house. Local 1123 cannot endorse a candidate, but with two weeks to go it rented part of its hall to the Clinton camp: "They were the first to ask." With less than a week to go, no one had yet shown up to work.

Lordstown

No question, Election '08 enlists white men in identity politics for the first time. What will lead them, their skin or their dick? A vote for Hillary might cover both propositions. Amid the arcing conveyors of splashy Chevy Cobalts and Pontiac G5s at the GM Lordstown plant, some of Hillary's white male supporters ticked off her plans, her ability to "hit the ground running." But sooner or later, usually sooner, it was Bill they admitted they'd be voting for. Bill will guide her. No one is as experienced as Bill. Because of their past failures, "the Clintons" are better positioned to get it right next time. NAFTA was a good idea that was badly implemented. In 2006, when Sherrod Brown swept away the Republican incumbent in the Senate race by hammering on trade deals, no Democrat called NAFTA a good idea. But the rationalization now is not as bizarre as it first seems. Organized labor rallied for Bill Clinton and the Democrats after he strong-armed Congress to pass the trade agreement, arguing in 1994 and again in '96 that he and the party could best control the downside. And the stock market bubble meant that, for a while at least, the economy expanded and some people had more money in their pockets.

Hillary reminded 200-plus assembled workers at the plant of those good days. They handed her a pair of boxing gloves, and she promised to fight the bankers, the corporations, the credit card companies, Wall Street, China. Afterward, as "She's an American girl…" blasted from the speakers, some workers said she had made the emotional connection they sought: "She actually seems like she's got feeling. Maybe it's because she's a woman. Women don't lie," said a white millwright named Mike. He has worked at GM for thirty years, and for thirteen of those, beginning in the '90s, he worked "seven twelves," twelve hours a day, seven days a week. "You don't make money unless you want to live here," a white man named John said. "You're kind of a slave." GM now wants to outsource most of Mike's work. Last year the United Auto Workers agreed to let the company hire new employees at about $13 an hour, half the rate of veteran workers, and rolled the dice by taking control over retiree health and pension benefits. In her speech, Hillary had said, "Some may call this the Rust Belt. That's not what I see. I see those shiny new cars. They look like the future to me." As Mike was explaining why he voted no on the GM contract, a company flak ordered him back to work and me off the premises.

Columbus

Michelle Obama gives the talk her husband can't. "Things have gotten worse -- through Republican and Democratic Administrations," she says flatly. She didn't quite count the ways at Ohio State as she had when I saw her at a black church in South Carolina, but she deftly linked the shifting expectations for her husband's campaign with the constantly "moving bar" that has made people anxious wrecks. She projects herself as a class sister in telling of her "little unmiraculous life" -- the daughter of a disabled shift worker on Chicago's South Side, product of public schools who managed to get to Princeton, a life that is out of reach for more and more people. But she also represents the wife every straight man wants: beautiful, loyal and strong; the helper, the lover, "the rock." Charlie Bush, retired former president of UAW Local 402, which represents workers at International Truck and Engine in Springfield, told me he thought Michelle might be decisive in swaying the votes of more than a few men. She is like Hillary was in 1992, he said, "a supporter." An undecided Edwards voter when we met, Bush now says he's going with Hillary; his wife, Cheryl, is still undecided.

Springfield

"That white's kickin' in, isn't it?" a friend said as I told him about my last day in this town in Clark County, typically a swing county in elections. But first things first. There was once money here, lots of it. Mansions, some moldering, line High Street, along with Frank Lloyd Wright's 1906 Wescott House -- saved from the wrecker's ball and now a museum. Before St. Louis, Springfield was the jumping-off point for the West, and for a time it was second only to Chicago for manufacturing in the Midwest. Not so long ago, International Harvester was the biggest private employer; today that title goes to a call center. International's workforce plunged from 4,500 to less than 1,000 over a six-year period through layoffs and outsourcing; it too has a new union contract allowing it to bring in new workers at about half the old $25 to $30 hourly rate. The call center pays $8 to $12. At CWA Local 4326, Paul Storms, an AT&T technician and the Local president, recited a litany of lost manufacturing: "Speco Aerospace, gone; Buffalo Road Roller, gone; Bomag earth movers, gone; White Motors, gone; Boise Cascade, gone; O-Cedar, gone; O.S. Kelly, gone; the foundries, gone; Robinson Meyers, gone." Solid, cheery housing in working-class parts of town -- going, going and sometimes gone.

Manufacturing began moving to the nonunion South in the '80s; in the '90s NAFTA ensured that it would never come back. Storms summed up the situation: "Corporate America, you give 'em an inch, they take a mile, and in this case they've taken our lives." Springfield today is a go-between city for people working in Dayton or Marysville, at the nonunion Honda plant. Local 4326 itself has only fifty-three members. Mayor Warren Copeland is trying to create an information technology park to bring in higher-paid jobs. What has mainly kept the town from imploding is Wright Patterson Air Force Base and earmarks. According to Copeland, "Community Development Block Grants were cut, UDAG grants were cut; what substituted was earmarks" -- up to $20 million annually. The source of that largesse, Appropriations Committee member Dave Hobson, is about to retire from Congress. Copeland, a white man, caucused for Obama in early January, when delegate slates were chosen. Three times as many people caucused for Hillary Clinton as for anyone else -- almost all the professional politicians, the known party regulars, some unions. Edwards drew union people. Copeland, who has been in Democratic Party politics a long time, knew only one person in the Obama group.

"When people are running they have all kinds of plans," he went on. "Once they get in office, neither one of their plans is going to be adopted, so that's a crazy debate. I'm much more interested in whether they will help people down-ticket. I think Hillary will energize Republicans, and people down-ticket will be hurt." In 2004 the conservative churches, buoyed by Ohio's antigay initiative, called out all their people to vote, and wherever there was no strong union presence in the state, Kerry lost. He lost Clark County by 1,406 votes.

In a conversation with five CWA members, one mixed-race man was leaning toward Obama, one white man was for Hillary ("I'm 61, and ever since I've been alive there's been a man, and that's my big selling point; I'm curious to see if a woman would make a difference"), two other white men were undecided but said they would be happy with either, and the only woman in the Local, a middle-aged white Republican, said she would decide in the booth. She veered between appreciating Hillary's moxie to run and expressing wariness about a woman who took what Bill dished out and who has "her foot in the door of the good-old-boy network." What united them all was a feeling, not yet cynicism, that Democrats and Republicans alike have abandoned unions, the working class and cities like Springfield, and that no matter who wins in November once they get behind closed doors there is no counting on anything.

It is for that reason, along with the similarity of Clinton's and Obama's plans, that gender, race, hope, energy -- the Democrats' equivalent of religion, abortion, marriage on the fundamentalist side -- count for so much this year. Some white professionals I talked with here were favoring Obama. He is new and didn't vote for the war. We talked about racism and the critique that a vote for Obama only makes white people feel better about themselves. These white people, most in their 50s or early 60s, did not think racism was as pervasive as it had been, but even acknowledging that it exists, an electronics engineer at Wright Patterson said, "The flip side of that is that we should feel bad about any progress. Do we have to feel bad all the time?"

There is plenty to feel bad about. There are de facto whites-only private key clubs in Springfield. The city is segregated by race and class the way most cities are. A ride-around one afternoon with local Obama backers stopping at various intersections with homemade signs urging, Honk and Wave, Obama suggested a fair amount of white support, until the group got to a crossing in a predominantly white neighborhood whose fortunes have been tumbling. There expressions were set, grim, like their wearers meant it. No honks. No waves.

"This is Hillary Clinton's base," said Kimberly Beard. "They are Democrats, and they vote. I've lived here for fifty years; I know these people. They're scared, and they can't see that something can be done. They are disillusioned, disconnected from any economic development in the county and disappointed. I've lived in different cities, but I've always come home because I like to be in a place where I can spot a racist from fifty yards away." Beard worked for Jesse Jackson in 1984 and 1988. "He got a delegate here, which was virtually unheard of."

Later that night at the Disabled American Veterans key club, a bar that does not require disability or veteran status for entry, only $17 a year and sponsorship by a member, all of whom are white, the women said, "It's time for a woman," "Women are more compassionate." None of them were hankering for Bill. It was a little different with the men. "I'm for Hillary. I love Hillary," a middle-aged man declared with increasing volume. He is a registered Republican, but he voted for Bill in '92 and '96, for Kerry in '04. He said he's never done worse than he's doing now and wants someone who can "bring down the costs of this goddamned healthcare." Really, though, he said he wishes he could vote for Bill a third time. Entrepreneurs have capitalized on this, selling buttons saying, Bring Back Peace and Prosperity and The Clintons over an image of the two.

If Hillary doesn't get the nomination, this man said, he'd not only vote for but work for McCain, "and I hate McCain."

"Why not Obama?"

"He's too inexperienced."

"And why else?" a woman down the bar asked.

"Because he's black."

"Thank you!" she replied.

More talk, a little heat, and the man exclaimed, "I'm not going to vote for the nigger!"

Some in the bar seemed tensed; they were "undecided." The man goaded them; that's not what they had discussed the other day. He laughed. Another man from across the bar said he knew whom he wasn't voting for: "the nigger."

The first man continued to proclaim, "I love Hillary." He and a friend said she probably should take the VP spot if it were offered; even if Obama gets the nomination, "he's not going to make it." Later he apologized for saying "nigger"; "I'm not a racist." In the hallway a young worker said quietly that I shouldn't pay much attention to the man, that for what it was worth he himself was just trying to figure things out politically, was worried about schools for his two young sons and that most of all he was sick of all the division in the country.

Youngstown

No "bridge to the twenty-first century" was ever built here in the 1990s. In place of the biggest steel plants, which left in the '70s and '80s, there are nonunion mini-mills, a steel museum, nursing homes and two prisons. The state university, where Obama was speaking, graduates more corrections officers than teachers. It used to be good at engineering. Cecil Monroe, a black man, 65, who works for the county government, said he doesn't want his mixed-race daughter to come back here after college: "I think if she comes back, it's just going to be death and destruction." The city is about even black and white, and that seemed roughly the mix of the 6,000-plus people who came to hear Obama. Only 83,000 people live in Youngstown now. The labor historian and radical lawyer Staughton Lynd, 78, who lives in nearby Niles, said it was "the most integrated crowd I've seen in thirty-two years." Also the most easy-spirited. A number of white adults I spoke with had been led by their kids, many of them too young to vote.

The day before, I had been in Toledo, where Bill Clinton spoke to an overwhelmingly white crowd of about 1,000. As in 1992, he emphasized the high-tech future, this time in green technology. Toledo has some infrastructure for such things; Youngstown does not. What Youngstown has is desperation. In that circumstance, it is easy to see why feeling good is no small thing. This is not a liberal town, and even if class clichés were valid the crowd could not be described as "latte-drinking, Prius-driving, Birkenstock-wearing trust fund babies" -- an insult the buffoonish president of the Machinists' Union, Tom Buffenbarger, threw at Obama supporters before introducing Hillary the next day at a Youngstown high school. The Obama rally was on Presidents' Day; people had the day off. Obama was introduced by a laid-off union pipefitter (white, female) carrying a baby in a sling. He ticked off the requisite class issues and took one brief, sharp shot at NAFTA, which drew big applause. But the greatest response was for issues of no direct consequence to Youngstown: closing Guantánamo, ending the debate on torture, restoring habeas corpus, restoring constitutional rights -- in other words, righting the wrongs that have only added shame on top of desperation.

Brook Park

By the old math, this should be Hillary country: a white ethnic working-class suburb of Cleveland. It might be, and Hillary has a passionate surrogate in Anthony D'Amico, president of the Brook Park Democratic Club, a retired Teamster who can tick off her plans and forcefully make the change-through-experience argument. He has organized campaigns for years and was once a city councilman, but as we talked, with less than two weeks to go to the primary, he said no one from the Hillary campaign had contacted him. As he gauges it, neither campaign is visible on the ground, so people are scrambling to do things ad hoc. He puts no faith in the polls, the phone banking: "People are being very standoffish. They hold voting very sacred, and they don't want to tell you shit." There is one other wild card in the deck: "Brook Park used to be 1,000 percent Democratic. Years ago when I was growing up [in the mid-'60s], they're making the signs in the backyard with the hammer and nails." Before the 2005 elections he looked at the registration rolls from the town's four wards, and it shocked him: Democrats, 4,448; Republicans, 882; independents, 6,508. "If you'd asked me even a few years ago, I'd have said there is no way independents are the majority. There's where you want to roll the dice."

North Canton

"Who said there was going to be a giant sucking sound? They made a fool of him, but he was absolutely right." Out his office window Jim Repace, president of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Local 1985, could see the Hoover factory as he spoke. Hoover was once a Fortune 500 company, the number-one floor-care manufacturer in the world, the only unionized floor-care manufacturer in the country. A few years ago it was posting 30 percent profits; a few months ago it had workers disassembling machines right beside those still on the job. Now this beautiful 100-year-old brick specimen of a daylight factory is cold; 817 hourly workers (down from 2,400 as recently as 2000) will get full wages, health and pension benefits through June. Repace says the shutdown will affect 8,000 in the area; North Canton has a population of 16,000. Next-door to his office, the message board at St. Peter's Catholic Church reads, "God be our hope when life is difficult."

However profitable, Hoover could not compete here with its plants in Juárez/El Paso and China. The union went through the usual rounds of concessions and legal action to keep the plant open, and for fourteen years it almost worked. Hoover did some hiring in the '90s, but Repace could look toward other cities where NAFTA was killing plants, the broad scenario being a fight of all against all, with those left standing cutting living standards to avoid catastrophe. Behind the increases people saw in their CDs, the economy was going. No one who has not lived through this kind of shutdown can really understand the ruthlessness of it, or the fear that the pleasant streets around the plant, the park where workers ate lunch, are in preboarding for hell. NAFTA has not been emphasized in the election, and Repace says, "It's troubling me that it's not" because "it's still going on." He spent years defending Bill Clinton in the '90s, but "I'm just tired of the status quo. We've had eight years of Clinton, eight years of Bush. Enough is enough. I like a new perspective …. I truly believe Obama's going to go in there with something to prove. He is not going to want to be a failure."

A failure for whom is always the question. Sixteen years ago, at a blimp hangar a few miles away in Akron, 50,000 people cheered another fresh face in the general election. Bill Clinton played the working class, and if it were to repay him by proxy on March 4, '90s prosperity should finally enter the book of political fairy tales. However the vote turns, not just the people of Ohio will need some potent ways to show they won't be played again.

AlterNet is a nonprofit organization and does not make political endorsements. The opinions expressed by its writers are their own.

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See more stories tagged with: ohio, barack obama, hillary clinton, election 2008

JoAnn Wypijewski, a former senior editor of The Nation, is based in New York City.

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Terrorist
Posted by: HeKnew on Mar 1, 2008 12:12 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Direct Primaries!

Direct Elections!

Direct Democracy!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Sideways Wages and Rising Prices- What Do YOU Think?
Posted by: NoPCZone on Mar 1, 2008 1:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bill campaigned against NAFTA as Bush I negotiated it and then signed it largely untouched after he got in. His wife effed up a real chance at getting Universal Coverage for all Americans. The corruption that spawned Global Crossing, ENRON and most of the Tech Bubble happened on his watch. He re-appointed Alan Greenspan to the Fed.
He ruled like a second term for Bush I.

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Terrorist
Posted by: HeKnew on Mar 1, 2008 3:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Clinton era was good for the working class as long as you kept working.

Billybob triangulated the welfare net right out of existence.


Yes, we will

Government of the people, by the people and for the people.

Direct Democracy

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» RE: Terrorist Posted by: Cooltruth
» RE: Terrorist Posted by: snarlah
» RE: Terrorist Posted by: mclemens
Will Ohio vote determine who's viewed as more the populist?
Posted by: nochicagoboys on Mar 1, 2008 4:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also, economically, is Ohio the proverbial canary in the coal mine for the rest of the country?

Any Ohioans out there care to comment?

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The "Best" of Times
Posted by: Tom Degan on Mar 1, 2008 5:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For a real good debunking of the so-called "good times" of the Clinton era, read The Best of Times: America in the Clinton Years by Haynes Johnson.

The fact that Senator Clinton is being beaten so soundly by a virual unknown in her own parties primaries should tell us that she is unelectable. If she is able to win this thing fairly and squarely, that is just something that Barack Obama supporters will just have to deal with. If, on the other hand, the Clintonistas are able to steal this thing via the uber delegates, count on a stampede to Ralph Nader.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
Oh, Ralph, you've done it again

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» RE: The "Best" of Times Posted by: willymack
» RE: The "Best" of Times Posted by: mclemens
No
Posted by: jim_altman on Mar 1, 2008 5:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once again, a journalist confuses opinion with fact. Alternet cannot alter the economic statistics of the Clinton era anymore than conservative opinion could create weapons of mass destruction. The myth to debunk here is the myth of the mandate of public opinion. It is the primary reason why we're in the quagmire we're in today. Want real change? Want leaders with integrity? Outlaw specious polling and require journalists to report facts they've thoroughly researched rather than novel story lines they've fallen in love with or information they've cherry-picked and stove-piped from unnamed reliable sources.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: No Posted by: jvaljon1
"He's a man of the people."
Posted by: MobileSucks on Mar 1, 2008 5:35 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My black friends are as steadfast in their belief that Bill Clinton was on their side and things were better for them because of Bill as are talk radio fans are in their conviction that "the first black President" is in league with Satan. There is no changing minds in either case. Or there hasn't been. Obama needs to not only speak of hopefulness and our collective ability to change - but talk more about reality. But we know what happens to candidates when they do that. And besides, how different is he from Clinton (Hilliary)?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: "He's a man of the people." Posted by: cyrena1987
» RE: "He's a man of the people." Posted by: MobileSucks
Was Clinton Era good for the workingclass?
Posted by: greenpagan on Mar 1, 2008 5:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Was the Clinton Era good for the Workingclass?

Not really. The tech boom led to a reasonably generalized prosperity. But whether that had anything to do with what the Clinton Administration did is another matter. Presidents usually just take credit if they back into good economies, like kings and chieftains would take credit for good crops.

Class warfare has always been going on in this country and in all capitalist countries and in any hierarchical culture. But, since 1981 and the advent of Reaganism-Thatcherism class warfare has been waged from the top down with a vengeance. Time to reverse that historical trend.

The Clintons went against their own party to pass things like NAFTA and welfare "reform" which was actually an attack on the Social Security Act's AFDC provisions. Only a traitorous dog Democrat could've done that!

Hillary blew Healthcare once. Why give her another chance to muck things up? The Clintons had their innings. That said, she'd make a good VP if only she could get her ego out of the way and keep Bill's snout in a muzzle and on a short leash.

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» Totally Irrelevant Posted by: improperly_sedated
» RE: Totally Irrelevant Posted by: Bozwell
The Problem with Bill
Posted by: Urstrly on Mar 1, 2008 5:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All those people who think Hillary knows what to do on Day One should just picture what it'll be like once the Clintons are back "home" in the White House. Who could possibly operate as vice president with Bill in residence? She second-guessed him when he was president, you have to assume he'll return the favor. And then he'll get bored and start catting around, and the talk show hosts will start in on him, and her effectiveness will be on a par with George W. Bush's. That may be fine with those folks at the VFW, but not with anyone who is concerned about the future of our country.

We need a fresh start.

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» RE: The Problem with Bill Posted by: Cooltruth
MyTake
Posted by: KarenS on Mar 1, 2008 6:19 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At least Clinton tries to talk about issues and solutions. Obama is like the silver tongued devil who sell you a vaccum cleaner that works for a month and then you can't find anyone in customer service to help you fix it when it breaks. I have always been in the middle middle class, now sinking into the lower middle class. All I know is that I and my circle of friends both male and female were a lot more economically secure and able to meet the bills during the 90s. Even Republicans give Hillary credit for being a workhorse in the Senate. If a uber conservative like Sam Brownback can ask her forgiveness for saying nasty things about her, then finding that he was wrong with his assumptions, I would think that fairness should extend to the so-called rightous left.

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» Hillary Work Horse Posted by: lifeaholic
» RE: MyTake Posted by: Bozwell
The videos Hillary does NOT want you to see!
Posted by: jhecht on Mar 1, 2008 6:42 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Check out the following videos on Youtube about Hillary. Then spread 'em far & wide...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq8aopATYyw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMfUajhL24I&feature=related

I had thought of Hillary as just another machine politician. These videos make it clear that she is far worse... Not that Obama is perfect, but he's IMHO a lot less evil.

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» HILLARY Posted by: lifeaholic
CLINTON MYTH GOOD TIMES
Posted by: lifeaholic on Mar 1, 2008 7:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Blarney Baloney by Conservatives
Shame on any Democrat for repeating such junk
Clinton Years were Best Years of Our lives.For All.
Short Memories. All signs-HELP WANTED. Start at $7-9 per hour

No such signs since Clinton left.

Clinton Fiscal Policies started the boom.
PRAISE CLINTON AND GORE WITH PLEASURE
GDP--rose from 6,300 to 11,600
NATIONAL INCOME-5,000 to 8,000 Billion--
JOBS CREATED—237,000 per month to replace Jimmy Carter record of 218,000.
AVERAGE WEEKLY EARNINGS--$360 to $478
AVERAGE WEEKLY HOURS WORKED--never hit 35.0--hit that mark 4 times in 80's
UNEMPLOYMENT--from 7.2% down down down to as low as 3.9%
MINIMUM WAGE--$4.25 to $5.15
MINORITIES--did exceedingly well
HOME OWNERSHIP--hit all time high (no big deal most can say this-except Reagan)
DEFICIT--290 Billion to whoopee a SURPLUS
DEBT----+28%---300% increase over prior 12 years by Conservatives.
FEDERAL SPENDING--+28%---+80% under Reagan- who is da true conservative?
DOW JONES AVERAGE—3,500 to 11,720 top in 2000. All it's history to get to 3500 and Clinton zooms it
NASDAQ--700 to 5,000 top in 2000.---All of it's history to get to 700 and Clinton zooms it
VALUES INDEXES-- almost all bad went down--good went up in zoom zoom zoom
FOREIGN AFFAIRS--Peace on Earth good will toward each other---Mark of a true Christian--what has Bush done to Peace on Earth?
POPULARITY---highest poll ratings in history during peacetime in AFRICA, ASIA AND EUROPE . Even 98.5% in Moscow--left office with Highest Gallup rating since it was started in 1920's.
STAND UP FOR JUSTICE--evil conservatives spent $110,000,000 on hearings and investigations and caught one very evil man who took a few plane rides to events.
BOW YOUR HEADS—“Thank you God for sending us a man of Bill Clinton's character, intelligence, knowledge of governance, ability to face up to crises without whimpering and a great leader of the world. Amen”.
THANK YOU GOD FOR THE GOOD TIMES THE CLINTON YEARS.
clarence swinney-political historian-Lifeaholics of America- burlington nc
Author-LIFEAHOLIC--Success by working for a life not just a living
clarenceswinney@bellsouth.net
6-28-03

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CLINTONOMICS VS REAGANOMICS
Posted by: lifeaholic on Mar 1, 2008 7:09 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Conservatives have spent millions re-inventing Reagan record and -Denigrating Clinton Record

FACH CHECK
1.JOBS—grew by 43% more under Clinton.
2.GDP---grew by 57% more under Clinton.
3.DOW—grew by 700% more under Clinton..
4.NASDAQ-grew by 18 times as much under Clinton.
4.SPENDING--grew by 28% under Clinton---80% under Reagan.
5.DEBT—grew by 43% under Clinton—187% under Reagan.
6. DEFICITS—Clinton got a large surplus--grew by 112% under Reagan.
7.NATIONAL INCOME—grew by100% more under Clinton.
8.PERSONAL INCOME—Grew by 110% more under Clinton.
SOURCES—Bureau of Labor Statistics (www.BLS.Gov)--Economic Policy Institute (EPI.org)—Global & World Almanacs from 1980 to 2003 (annual issues)
www.the-hamster.com (chart taken from NY Times)
National Archives History on Presidents. www.nara.gov
LA Times 10-11-00 on Market--www.Find articles.com

A vote for a Republican is a vote for Less Success.
A vote to reduce the Standard of Living for all Americans.

Clarence Swinney-Political Research Historian-Lifeaholics of America-President
Please submit comments to clarenceswinney@bellsouth.net or P.O. Box 3411-Burlington NC-27216

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» RE: CLINTONOMICS VS REAGANOMICS Posted by: cyrena1987
Short memories
Posted by: robchapman on Mar 1, 2008 7:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The 90s were a good time for working people.

I can remember in the mid 90s setting up an interview for my daughter who was then in high school.

After she had been working at the place for three or four weeks, she told me she was unhappy and asked whether it would embarrass me if she started looking for another job.

After three or four weeks she decided that her job wasn't so bad, and hit me with the line, "I thought you said this is a good time to look for a job."

I told her that these are good times, wait until you see bad times.

Now her stock-broker fiance is getting ulcers trying to make money trading bonds. Her friends, her brothers and her friends siblings are all struggling to make ends meet and hold onto or find jobs.

My contemporaries are postponing retirements and/or job searches because of economic insecurity.

For middle class people who work for living the nineties were good.

The Ohio primary, though should not be referendum on the 90s.

Instead voters should look forward to the future and vote for the person who most likely can bring jobs back to the Northeast.

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Hillary is the Candidate,NOT Bill
Posted by: freshlemon on Mar 1, 2008 7:40 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She is the one who is running and she happens to be married to Bill. If the media can remember that, we might be able to hear what she has to say.

In spite of the popular myth of "love and marriage = one person", it just is not true.
Those who perpetuate this myth always think of the man as being the dominant figure. In reality, many men marry to get a meal ticket and a mother. Perhaps one of your writers should do a study on this aspect of relationships in the modern real world.

This writer like many others, refers to 'the Clintons' as if they are the same, and that leads people to believe that Hillary is so tethered to Bill that she can't function as an individual.

Yes, Bill Clinton does support his wife. He like many others thinks that she is the best candidate. Nobody has faulted other spouses for supporting their candidate of choice.

But, oops, I forgot. The other candidates are men, and wives are supposed to support their husbands.

The Bill Clinton years are over. The new president will have to start cleaning up the Bush mess. Cleaning up men's messes is something that women have been doing throughout history.

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Environmentalism the key to job growth
Posted by: robchapman on Mar 1, 2008 7:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The key to bringing good paying jobs back to America's industrial regions is through environmentalism.

The development of renewable energy, electrical generation systems that take facilities off the grid and solar technology are key in developing jobs for the future. If American industrial plants, homes and commercial facilities can retro-fit to use energy efficiently, it will generate jobs in construction and manufacturing.

The retro-fitting of American facilities will give us a competitive advantage in building and designing facilities world-wide and has the potential to lead a great export boom.

Americans must look forward and think of future opportunities, and prepare to meet them for our benefit.

The bring the old jobs back strategy has failed for decades and offers nothing but grist for political demagoguery.

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The decline of blue collar employment
Posted by: robchapman on Mar 1, 2008 8:00 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Blue collar jobs have declined in number and remuneration since the 1950s.

Steel, autos, publishing and other heavy industries have fled the northeast, first to the south, then to the orient and apparently now to south asia.

Part of the dynamic lies in labor costs. But more of the dynamic lies in the changing nature of manufacturing and the obsolesence of American plants and work organization.

Republic Steel closed a massive plant in Buffalo. This plant was closed, not relocated. Plants manufacturing steel on that magnitude have closed in Germany, the UK and Japan.

They have been replaced by far smaller and more efficient plants in Alabama, Korea as well as smaller plants in Germany, the UK, Ireland and the low countries.

The demand for steel that made the mammoth profitiable simply does not exist today and will not return.

In many aspects of manufacturing smaller work-forces can handle greater volumes of work. This is because mechanization- the use of robots- has become so widespread.

In modern industrial plants, the work-force consists of a cadre of highly skilled technicians who take care of the robots and low skilled workers who do jobs that the robots can't. Many of these jobs have to do with inventory control, moving materials around the plants and like tasks.

It is inhumane to demand that industry hire people to paint fenders or to fasten them to car bodies. Robots do this as well as people do and they do not suffer from boredom and the frustration of a dead end job.

In steel, tire making, cars, appliances and all the other blue collar occupations, the masses of workers who made products in the fifties and sixties have been replaced by robots.

If American industry is to be competitive, if American society is to retain any sort of humanity, robots should continue to perform these tasks and people should be freed for other work.

Politicians should not pander to those who argue for the return of this sort of employment. Politicians should provide leadership into green collar employment that will provide us a competitive export edge, remunerative and meaningful work and a healthy environment.

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Ms. W--kill the identity politics PLEASE
Posted by: zooeyhall on Mar 1, 2008 8:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"No question, Election '08 enlists white men in identity politics for the first time. What will lead them, their skin or their dick?"


Oh boo hoo Ms. W. Please stop playing the tune of gender-ethnic-race blather. I'm going to vote for whoever promises me as a working class male to right the economic wrongs we have suffered since the Reagan years. And I don't care if they are female, black, yellow, or a martian with purple polka dots.

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Hillary Receives $35 Million for Campaign In February
Posted by: ronheri on Mar 1, 2008 8:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The press release that Hillary's campaign received 35 million last month alone is very telling. The CFR (power-elite, Rockefeller-think tank) along with Rupert Mudoch gave generously to their Queen. So you want Obama? His campaign staff is loaded with the same suspects; plus a foreign policy adviser by the name ofZbigniew Brezinski (Illummaniti top official). McCain? The co-sponser of the Amnesty Bill to allow Citizenship to 20 million illegal aliens and the man who s quoted as admitting he knows little about economics; but believes we will be in endless wars and Iraq for 100 years. What's a voter to do when faced with this trio of choices? I have already voted for Ron Paul. You say he has no chance of winning; well we all lose if he doesn't. The economic Depression we are entering will be very painful all around; so maybe the words of Ron Paul will resonate more clearly in 2012. All this becomes a mute point if as I suspect, the "Decider" declares martial war and totally suspends elections this year. Either way the coming four years will surely be historic.

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OF COURSE EVERYONE did better under Reagan AND BOTH Bushes (especially Dubyah) than Clinton
Posted by: xbj on Mar 1, 2008 10:00 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The longest run of peacetime prosperity in the nation's history... why, a COMPLETE myth, of course. Not to mention the horrific seven year Kosovo war, which pratically, no actually DID start WWIII, invented Islamic terrorism AND caused 9-11, cost us eight trillion dollars, 8000 American lives, over two million women, children, and babies in the Balkans dead, and bankrupted the country. All while Bill was getting hummers from Monica in the Oval Office 24/7. Why George Dubyah Bush, our Lord and Savior, could hardly rebuild the economy with his tax cuts to the wealthy.

JoAnnie... are you just stupid, too young to remember, too ignorant to fact check, or just plain evil?

You might try writing your next article without Rove's tool Obama in your mouth next time (if there IS a next time or next article)... it really seems to cloud your thinking processes, such as they are.

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It's not enough we have Rove and Limbaugh revising history; now we have ObamaNation chiming in
Posted by: xbj on Mar 1, 2008 10:03 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lies. All lies.

Actually, revisionist history such as this coming from ObamaNation PROVES the assertion the Obama is nothing more than a GOP/Rove tool.

And his followers like JoAnnie here only too happy to chime in with their unending bullshit.

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Hillary or Obama Versus Armageddon
Posted by: sofla100 on Mar 1, 2008 11:45 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Arguing between Hillary and Obama is soon going to be like arguing about the price of tea in China. One is going to be the Democratic nominee, and it will probably be Obama. Now, regardless of who it is, Democrats have to be united. John McCain has already indicated "NAFTA was a good thing," and he has alluded to troops in Iraq for "100 more years." McCain wants even more tax cuts for the rich, and soon to follow will be more tax breaks for the multinational corporations, oil companies, and for companies shipping jobs overseas. The Republican goal: further the creation of two exclusive societies in America. One is the upper 1% that already owns 1/2 of the countries wealth. And, we all know who the rest are. We will have a choice between America having a chance (Hillary or Obama) and Armageddon. We will have to become united.

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:-)
Posted by: jacksmith on Mar 1, 2008 12:14 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
YOU MIGHT BE AN IDIOT:-)

If you think Barack Obama with little or no experience would be better than Hillary Clinton with 35 years experience.

You Might Be An Idiot!

If you think that Obama with no experience can fix an economy on the verge of collapse better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) led the greatest economic expansion, and prosperity in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot!

If you think that Obama with no experience fighting for universal health care can get it for you better than Hillary Clinton. Who anticipated this current health care crisis back in 1993, and fought a pitched battle against overwhelming odds to get universal health care for all the American people.

You Might Be An Idiot!

If you think that Obama with no experience can manage, and get us out of two wars better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) went to war only when he was convinced that he absolutely had to. Then completed the mission in record time against a nuclear power. AND DID NOT LOSE THE LIFE OF A SINGLE AMERICAN SOLDIER. NOT ONE!

You Might Be An Idiot!

If you think that Obama with no experience saving the environment is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) left office with the greatest amount of environmental cleanup, and protections in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot!

If you think that Obama with little or no education experience is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) made higher education affordable for every American. And created higher job demand and starting salary's than they had ever been before or since.

You Might Be An Idiot!

If you think that Obama with no experience will be better than Hillary Clinton who spent 8 years at the right hand of President Bill Clinton. Who is already on record as one of the greatest Presidents in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot!

If you think that you can change the way Washington works with pretty speeches from Obama, rather than with the experience, and political expertise of two master politicians ON YOUR SIDE like Hillary and Bill Clinton..

You Might Be An Idiot!

If you think all those Republicans voting for Obama in the Democratic primaries, and caucuses are doing so because they think he is a stronger Democratic candidate than Hillary Clinton. :-)

Best regards

jacksmith...

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» RE: -) Posted by: seilnotnilc
» Have A Drink On Me Posted by: seilnotnilc
» Idiot JackSmith: have you noticed? Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
» You might be a Fool... Posted by: AltB
» RE: -) Posted by: vssmith
» DUM Posted by: jmooney
» At least I'm original Posted by: xbj
» Nicely done. and I'm an idiot too Posted by: seilnotnilc
» Appology Accepted Posted by: seilnotnilc
james d granata
Posted by: seilnotnilc on Mar 1, 2008 1:02 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No one who was there during that period of time could rationally dispute that economically times were great. But presidents do not drive the economy because if they could why wouldn’t they? I mean it's in their best interests for when people are prosperous they pay less attention to government. Look what Bill Clinton got away with in his private life (which probably should have remained private) because of the boom. I give Bill Clinton no credit for a thriving economy any more than I blame Herbert Hoover for the world-wide economic disaster that spawned the depression. The stock market has much more to do with the economy and it has a pattern of fluctuating.

What I think impacts our jobs now is NAFTA which was signed into law by Mr. Clinton and for that he must take responsibility.

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Clinton may be better than Bush
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Mar 1, 2008 1:24 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because it wouldn't take much to be better than Bush. But the Clinton Administration contributed to the economic insanity that we are now dealing with, and it goes beyond NAFTA.

How about the Boskin Commission that gave us "hedonic pricing" and other statistical flim-flam for calculating CPI? The actual CPI (as measured by pre-Clinton calculations) is more like 8 percent. (See shadowgovernmentstatistics.com) The price of commodities and their rise tell us that these stats are a complete lie.

You can't compare past inflation to present inflation if you're aren't measuring the same thing. We owe at least some of this to Bill Clinton

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» I completely disagree. Posted by: xbj
Slimy yellow big mouths
Posted by: mkdelta69 on Mar 1, 2008 3:33 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama talks about energizing people to get involved before change can take place.

What do you think Bill Clintons election was? shrub 1 had successful Gulf 1 but had screwed up the economy. Clinton was a vote for change and enough people voted for change to defeat a sitting president. Which doesn't happen much.

Now will the people supporting Obamachange fold like a cheap chair like they did for Clinton. You can only be as successful as your support. But the likes of Hillbilly Heroin Limbaugh, Hannity and O'Riely, beat Clintons Obamachange into the ground.

You want to know why Clinton failed? Not because of his ideas. Because the yellow cowardly BIG MOUTHS OF CHANGE groveled at the Military Industrial Complexes feet, licking their boots. Failing to give him support he needed.

And you will fold again like cheap chairs.

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"middle class"?! what about THE REST OF US?
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Mar 1, 2008 3:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
you know...

those CITIZENS who make up the "POOR CLASS" that nobody gives a DAMN ABOUT??

you know...

...where those MIDDLE CLASS CITIZENS are headed?

what exactly does anybody care about THE NO-SO MIDDLE & 'Lower Class"?
Its so fashionable to ignore the MASSES, right?

...government & candidates ONLY TALK ABOUT THE MIDDLE CLASS PROTECTION.


You're GETTING HOSED & you don't even notice??

~~~
Spread Love...

BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian
~~~
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
~~~
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"

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Deregulated
Posted by: BeyondBeliefs on Mar 1, 2008 3:46 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Under Bill Clinton, the deregulated CORPORATIONS became RICH ENOUGH to BUY our ONCE FREE PRESS, to BUY our political system, and to build factories OVERSEAS.

Is that GOOD ?

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Your lying, Mr. Wypijewski
Posted by: johnp on Mar 1, 2008 7:29 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bullshit, Wpyijewski. The upcoming vote in Ohio, won't tell the voters how they feel about Clinton's work on behalf of the working class. What it will tell them, is how successfully they've been manipulated and hustled by bullshitters like yourself, doing hit jobs on Hillary's campaign in advance of the vote. You're merely another part of the Clinton-hating media. You write peieces intended to destroy Sen. Clinton's campaign, but you pretend that you're merely doing objective analyses of her record. In fact, your pieces are negative bullshit, released to the public before anyone has a chance to confirm or deny nearly all of what you say, and since what you say is unflattering, you can hurt Hillary's vote, before the voter has a chance to find out what a scoundrel you are.

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» RE: HRC and the sewer Posted by: AltB
Overheard Prayer...
Posted by: marizara on Mar 1, 2008 9:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...at child's bedroom door. "Dear God. Please save Mommy and Daddy from the polotik Monster. They are both scared, and so am I. Thank you, I love you."

Now that we have the beloved Internet, and we can find out everything, we can get really, really scared! Is everybody with me??? NOTHING frightens me, and I am really scared. We've all been asleep all these years, and didn't even know it. Hoooo, boy!!

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Whomever gets in office.....
Posted by: eosrk on Mar 2, 2008 1:01 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...dosen't deliver, I'm running for president, and will offer Americans the ability to fire all of Capitol Hill, and start over from scratch....for the people, damnit!

Rules state that the person must be 35 years of age, and a natural-born American citizen.

Therefore, I'm qualified

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I love the Clintons!
Posted by: Cathyc on Mar 2, 2008 5:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't you? They're soooooooooooooo Kool man! Whoaaaa!!!

Watching the American Elections is like looking at a CGI version of the Flinstones. Cartoon stuff!

If that's what America is all about, then I'm all for becoming a Martian. LOL!!!

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Role of Clinton's welfare "reform" today
Posted by: Dianka on Mar 2, 2008 5:41 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What remains a taboo subject among conservatives and progressives alike is the impact of the Clinton admin.'s welfare "reform" on all working class Americans. It isn't hard to figure out. These policies have created a massive, involuntary, bottom-wage/no workers' rights or protections workforce. Companies are provided with financial incentives to hire these people, usually on temporary basis. How many family-supporting jobs have been broken down into part-time, bottom wage workfare jobs? It's a system that feeds on itself; workers are laid off, replaced with workfare labor. Some of those laid off are forced to turn to their county "workforce development" (welfare) office, and they will be assigned to replace laid off workers at a fraction of the wages. The newly laid off workers will find themselves at the county workfare office, ready to replace other workers (at a fraction of the wages), and on and on it goes. Clinton's welfare reforms have been horrendous for the poor, and suck more and more people into poverty while increasing corporate profits.

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Absolutely!
Posted by: donl51 on Mar 2, 2008 9:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All during his 8 years our business did well,very well,Advertising,producing catalogs mostly wholesalers, mfgs,the like and our share of the retail end,then as if out of nowhere the companies either closed due to heavy pricing differences,literally we watched an era change companies seeking lower prices went overseas,now I'm talking catalogs here ,package design and printing,every part involved w/selling products.it wasn't simply loosing an account,that goes w/the territory its loosing the accnt.forever!! ,nobody on this continent can hope to match these prices,It got worse as Bushco continued on,,I sold my end of the business to go back to being an artist,got cancer,so I'm a semi retired artist ,who feels the conservatives sold us out,but do I think these days the other side will make it all better?...Nope!!

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Who represent the working class
Posted by: donl51 on Mar 2, 2008 10:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was a ''Professional'' I often worked 15-16 hr.days for the same total of a given job, Granted I made a desent buck,so'd my plumber,he went to 2 years voc,school,I got a BA/MA in art/advertising marketing,yet I worked my ass off,a lot longer than a lot of these ''working class''!from what I remember there were unions for everyone except migrants and they had a deal,I didn't have any deals,no unions either,paid high ass taxes,I never really understood the class system in our country,so who was or is this working class,to me these days its anyone lucky enough to have a job!

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