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Election 2008

Hillary's Economic Plan: Nothing Daring, But More Comprehensive Than Obama's

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted February 19, 2008.


Clinton offers centrist fixes for our economic problems, but they go a long way toward helping the middle class.
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In the midst of a heated primary battle in which all of the minutia of a modern campaign is dissected and analyzed ad nauseum and substance is all-too-often treated as an afterthought, it's easy to lose sight of the candidates' positions. That's unfortunate; the country is facing severe problems, and ultimately this election is about who's best prepared to tackle them.

That's not to say that a candidate's style, perceived electability or approach to problem-solving aren't legitimate issues for voters to consider, it's just that an exclusive focus on those "intangibles" gives primary voters an incomplete picture.

The economy has so far been the most pressing issue in the minds of voters in both major parties, and this week Hillary Clinton unveiled a wide-ranging and thoughtful set of economic policies. You can read it in its entirety here (PDF).

Here are the highlights:

The lending crisis

The good:

Clinton would establish a $30 billion fund to aid states and municipalities in dealing with the effects of a sharp spike in foreclosures:

[The] fund will support initiatives by states, cities and community groups to reduce foreclosures and to help cities cope with the financial and social costs associated with an increase in vacant properties. States are already piloting programs to stem foreclosures. Many of the programs provide financial counseling to at-risk homeowners, help borrowers work out solutions with lenders, help homeowners become current in their payments, help families refinance unworkable mortgages and educate homeowners about predatory lending.
Her plan would also aid millions of families with a subprime loan on the bubble, providing:

  • A 90-day moratorium on subprime foreclosures (for owner-occupied homes), to give homeowners and lenders a chance to work out new loan schedules.
  • A five-year freeze on upward mortgage rate adjustments. Most subprime mortgages have adjustable rates, and this measure would provide an incentive for lenders to offer homeowners a conversion to fixed-rate loans


The not-so-good:

Clinton's focus on subprime loans is important, especially as low-income, minority and single-parent households are disproportionately affected. But the reality is that we face a banking deregulation crisis, and subprime loans are simply a symptom of much larger problems. Prime "option ARM" mortgages -- adjustable rate loans -- are the next to go, and programs that only address subprime lending are going to pass over a lot of middle-class households with negative equity in their homes.

Her husband's administration, with its unquestioned fealty to neoliberalism, shares much of the blame for creating the conditions that led to the current crisis, and while Hillary's plan offers a few words about improving America's regulatory framework, she stops short of proposing significant reregulation of the financial industry.

She also hedges her bet in "calling on Wall Street" to do these things voluntarily -- no mention of forcing them to do so through hard-edged legislation. Wall Street, in general, does not do the right thing of its own volition, so the question becomes whether such a program can be sold to the financial community as a matter of their own self-interest.

Kick-starting the economy

Clinton endorses the economic stimulus package passed by the House, but agrees with most analysts who view it as incomplete and skewed towards helping investors rather than workers. She would improve the stimulus package by:

  • "Extending and broadening" unemployment coverage for workers who are out of a job.
  • Providing an average of $650 in emergency home-heating assistance to each of the 37 million families that she says are in need.
  • "Making immediate investments to jump-start green-collar job growth, including a program to weatherize homes, retrofit public buildings and train green-collar workers."


The good and the bad:

This is an improvement over what we've seen so far, but an incremental one -- it's unlikely that it will have much of an effect on the ailing economy, given that we're paying a price for years of relying on housing growth as a major engine of overall economic performance, and the "adjustment" that's happening as a result is bringing an enormous amount of pain to the middle class. In other words, this isn't a slump in the "business cycle" that a bit more consumer spending can make up for.

It would also be nice if she specified how she'd pay for these programs, but in fairness, this is an economic plan put out in the heat of a campaign and is quite detailed for what it is.

Over the longer term, Hillary also offers a plan for creating "shared prosperity" for working people in the 21st century.

The plan would:

  • Invest unspecified funds to create 5 million new "green collar jobs" over the next decade.
  • Invest at least $10 billion in critical infrastructure, a move that would create jobs and make American firms more competitive.
  • End tax breaks for companies that offshore jobs. She claims that this move would free up billions of dollars, which she'd put into a fund for "establishing a national broadband strategy; creating a $50 billion strategic energy fund; doubling the research budgets at the major "Restoring the American Dream" federal agencies; strengthening education from pre-K to postgraduate study; making the research and experimentation tax credit permanent; and restoring integrity to science by ending the Bush administration's war on science.
  • To address a hollowed out economy in which manufacturing jobs continue to disappear in large numbers, Hillary says she'll "expand the Manufacturing Extension Partnership, which for a $100 million investment yields $910 million in new investments and trains or retrains 50,000 workers. And she will provide $20 billion in green vehicle bonds to help American auto companies retool the oldest auto plants to meet her strong efficiency standards, while addressing retiree health legacy costs with tax credits for qualifying private and public retiree health plans."
  • Provide quality, affordable universal health coverage. Her plan mandates that adults buy coverage if they don't already have it, provides tax credits for small business to do so for their employees, provide additional credits for individuals to purchase insurance, prohibits insurers from declining people based on pre-existing conditions and allows Medicare to negotiate with drug companies for lower bulk prices.
  • Clinton would provide a "generous matching (401K) plan for all Americans." The plan would provide up to $1,000 in tax credits to "match" what working families put away in savings. The accounts would be portable.
  • Hillary would invest more in education programs, including, "a $3,500 college tax credit that will cover more than 50 percent of the typical cost of public colleges and universities, or the full cost of tuition and fees for community colleges. She would increase the size of Pell Grants, strengthen our community colleges and invest $500 million to support innovative, on-the-job training and apprenticeship programs for those who don't attend college."


The good and the bad:

These are all the kind of centrist, technocratic approaches favored by Washington Democrats. They are not bad -- and unlike Republicans' approach to just about everything, much of this would have a real and beneficial impact on ordinary American families. But the approach raises the question of how willing she may be to tackle the role that corporate power has played in creating a need for such programs in the first place.

A few specifics …

Green jobs: This is a popular mantra among Democrats, and it is certainly politically appealing. Unfortunately, it doesn't address the underlying issue of high-paying manufacturing jobs disappearing from the American economy -- there's no way that those green jobs can be protected from offshoring to countries with lower labor costs other than by enacting "trade barriers" that would violate our commitments under various trade agreements. This is the dirty secret most Democrats don't talk about.

It's also a very modest proposal -- 500,000 "green jobs" per year in an economy that must add about 1.7 million jobs a year just to keep up with growth in the adult work force and break even.

Infrastructure: $10 billion invested in infrastructure is nice, but it doesn't address the scope of the problem. America is, literally, falling apart around us, and the American Society of Civil Engineers estimates that putting it back together would require about $1.6 trillion over the next 10 years -- that's 1,600 times the number that Clinton proposes.

Healthcare: Clinton and Obama's health plans have been analyzed extensively, so I won't belabor the point. The one thing I'll say is that Clinton's "mandate" -- the requirement for adults to purchase insurance -- has been controversial, but there's no way one can prohibit insurers from discriminating against people with pre-existing conditions without it. The issue is perfectly easy to understand: If insurers can't turn away people who have costly illnesses, and people aren't required to carry insurance, then younger, healthier people will simply go without until they get that $1 million cancer, and then sign up for coverage and stick insurance companies with the bill.

The reality, however, is that it's far more efficient, easier and perhaps better politically to simply finance a single-payer system through taxes than to garnish people's wages if they don't carry coverage. All of the Dems believe we're not "there yet," and maybe they're right. But leadership means leading, and we're in desperate need of real leadership on the healthcare front.

Clinton's universal 401K plan is a good idea for a country with a negative savings rate, but it's unfortunate that she dropped an earlier proposal to establish "USA accounts" that would give every child born in the United States a few dollars to start saving toward college, a first home, a new business or retirement. This is an old idea -- a progressive approach to an "ownership society" -- that Clinton abandoned early on in the campaign, when Rudy Giuliani accused her of being a "socialist." Read more about the concept here.

Trade and government contracting

Hillary says she'll end the no-bid contracting that's contributed so much to the problems with the reconstruction of Iraq, end subsidies to oil companies that don't invest in green energy and bring a "pro-American" trade agenda to the White House. She would also crack down on abusive lenders, and, although she doesn't define how, would "ensure a regulatory framework" to prevent the kind of excesses that led to Enron as well as the mortgage mess we now face.

On trade, she promises to appoint a "trade prosecutor" to enforce the trade agreements we're in already (and would increase the resources dedicated to enforcement), and she'd require a review of every trade agreement every five years. Finally, she calls for a "time out" -- a pause -- before entering into any new trade agreements ("read my lips: no new trade deals").

She also calls for "modernizing" and strengthening Trade Adjustment Assistance so that workers displaced by trade can receive job training, transitional assistance, healthcare credits, etc.

The good and the bad:

Banning no-bid contracts and ending corporate subsidies for companies that aren't responsible is a good idea, and, as president, Clinton would have a mighty bully-pulpit with which to make that case.

The reality, however, is that those subsidies exist because of the influence that corporate money has on the process, and Congress is the only body that can eliminate them. Would she veto a spending bill that included those subsidies? She doesn't say, but the fact that she offers little in the way of addressing the structural issues that have damned the legislative process in recent years is not encouraging.

As far as trade goes, neither of the remaining candidates has a coherent position, which is unfortunate, but also true of most of the Democratic establishment. Hillary gets all the talking points right, but doesn't come close to challenging the bipartisan trade consensus.

Trade adjustment assistance, for example, helps only workers directly displaced by foreign trade, which is a small portion of the estimated 70 percent of wage earners whose paychecks are less as an indirect result of these trade deals. It's also well understood that people who receive trade adjustment assistance hate it; research shows that many feel like losers -- that they failed to thrive in the global economy due to some personal fault.

At some point in the future, a candidate will say something like: "You can't have corporate lobbyists set the agenda of the U.S. Trade Rep, and then have that rep negotiate with other countries' economic elites behind closed doors, with no transparency, and expect anything that's good for ordinary working people to come of it." We already have enforceable, rules-based trade deals covering 99 percent of the planet, and the candidate that points that out, and notes that those existing agreements are in dire need of deep reform, will be the first to make any sense on the issue. As far as it goes, a moratorium on new trade deals is probably as good as we can get right now. For more on this issue, see here.

Flexible workplaces

This is probably the area in which the kind of "Third Way" fixes that the Clintons are known for could have the greatest positive impact on ordinary working families. For background, see my article, Womenomics 101 -- the short version is that while the American economy has seen enormous benefits from large numbers of women entering the work force, our corporate culture has done little to adapt to an economy in which most families require two breadwinners to get by:
According to Harvard's Project on Global Working Families (PDF), the United States is one of only five countries out of 168 studied that doesn't mandate some form of paid maternal leave. The only other advanced economy among those five was Australia's, where women are guaranteed an entire year of unpaid leave. That puts the United States -- the wealthiest nation on the planet -- in the company of Lesotho, Papua New Guinea, and Swaziland.
Clinton, who helped fight for the Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA) over staunch GOP opposition in the 1990s, has a number of worthwhile proposals to create more workplace flexibility:

  • "Hillary Clinton's national family leave initiative will set a goal of having all states adopt family leave programs by 2016. To help states reach this goal, Hillary will commit $1 billion annually in a Family Leave Innovation Fund and ramp up as states develop initiatives. The Family Leave Innovation Fund will support state-level parental leave programs across the country. The Innovation Fund will also work in partnership with states that create family leave programs by offering competitive matching grants to cover state start-up costs and a meaningful portion of program expenditures. The fund will not dictate from Washington what approach states should take. Instead, the fund would support all approaches to providing more leave to employees, including through temporary disability insurance or unemployment insurance programs, expansion of direct support programs like At Home Infant Care, or through individual and business tax credits."
  • Expanding FMLA: The act now requires unpaid leave be offered by businesses with more than 50 employees. The problem is that a disproportionate number of low-income workers have jobs in smaller firms, so Clinton would expand the program to firms with 25 or more workers.
  • Sick days: about half of all workers in the private sector don't have access to paid sick days. Clinton would make seven sick days per year a standard in American companies.
  • Expanded child healthcare programs. This is short on specifics; Hillary says she'll "increase childcare funding through child care and development block grants" but doesn't offer numbers or say how she'll pay for it.


The good and the bad here is quite simple: These proposals are a good start but lack the specifics needed to judge whether they go far enough toward creating an economy in which balancing work and family is not a near-impossible task.

Centrist technocracy

All of these proposals reflect the competent, centrist technocratic tinkering for which the Clintons are well-known. A Democratic presidency in 2009, regardless of whether it's headed by Clinton or Obama, will be a great disappointment to liberals and progressives hoping for ambitious and substantive change, but it will also be a dramatic improvement over what has passed for "governance" in the current administration. Both would fill jobs with competent professionals who are qualified for their jobs, as opposed to ideological hacks who have the right position on Roe v. Wade. Both would appoint reasonable judges as opposed to right-wing judicial activists in the Roberts/Alito mold. Neither candidate, if elected, would have an easy time digging America out from the mess the Bushies have created, yet both would be a marked improvement, and both will advance an agenda that at least considers the needs of ordinary working families.

There's quite a bit of overlap, in broad strokes, between Hillary's economic proposals and those offered by Obama (which you can view in its entirety here (PDF)). But Clinton's plan offers more specifics and, on almost every economic issue, is more progressive than the senator from Illinois. She has shown herself, however, to be more hawkish in her foreign policy positions than Obama, although there's not that much light between their positions in that area.

Sins of the Bubba

Liberals and progressives have rightly slammed the last Clinton administration for causing a lot of economic pain. By pushing NAFTA, ending "welfare as we know it," privatizing large swaths of the public sector and deregulating everything in sight, Bill Clinton's economic legacy is a painful one for many working families. It's a mixed bag, however. One can't forget that he presided over an eight-year respite from the assault on working families' wages. Between 1979 and 1993, the top 20 percent of earners saw their incomes increase by 28.4 percent, while the bottom fifth of the income spread saw theirs drop by 13 percent. But under Clinton, those in the bottom fifth saw the largest income growth in the country -- 22.5 percent. African-Americans enjoyed income growth of 33 percent; by the late 1990s, poverty among blacks and Hispanics was at its lowest point in the history of the republic.

That was due in no small part to smart centrist policies like the refundable Earned Income Tax Credit, a program that's pumped $100 billion in wage benefits to working families since its passage and keeps an estimated 5 million Americans above the poverty line.

But I think there's a larger point: It's fundamentally unsound to assume that a Hillary Clinton presidency would be a clone of her husband's. The problem with the assumption is that it vests too much power in the Oval Office. The president can articulate an agenda, issue executive orders, make appointments and veto bills, but the reality is that he or she must govern according to the political climate of the time. Bill Clinton's presidency came at the apex of the New Conservative movement, and he was limited by a political culture, a media environment and a Congress that was uninterested in progressive solutions to the nation's problems. That is not the case today, and if either Democrat should win this November, he or she will govern in a very different climate and most certainly well to the left of William Jefferson.

During the 1990s, the Republican Revolution led by Gingrich was the story in D.C. Now, those "movement" conservatives have shown themselves to be utterly corrupt, have blown off all those promises of term limits and ending pork-barrel politics and are struggling to maintain influence in the Republican Party. It was a time when the corporate whores of the DLC had enormous influence on Democratic politics, but now the DLC is relevant only in the eyes of the rapidly shrinking ranks of the DLC. During the 1990s, a Clinton-obsessed media was all too happy to spout any and every bit of right-wing spin about the White House, and we were treated to endless faux scandals. Today, the emergence of the progressive blogosphere and dozens of alternative media outlets offers the potential to push back against those narratives and keep the commercial media honest. And during the 1990s, all the talk was of prosperity; today even people like Alan Greenspan are saying that inequality is a huge issue in the American political economy. There's nothing fresh or new coming out of right-wing policy circles these days -- cutting taxes on investors seems to be all they talk about -- and people are weary of the damage the Right has done and are hungry for change.

We have no idea how Bill Clinton would have governed today, and we can only divine what kind of president Hillary would be based on her proposals and record. It is inherently faulty to assume that she will be a clone of Bubba if she wins in 2008. A lot has changed since the go-go 1990s.

Vote or die

None of this is to say one can't lean toward Obama because of his electability -- Hillary's high negatives among independents and Republicans may bring out a number of anti-Hillary voters who might otherwise stay home if the contest were between Obama and a decidedly flawed McCain. Obama currently does better against McCain in head-to-head polls (although this far out, they should be taken with a healthy grain of salt).

For progressive voters, the choice is not an easy one. Those whose primary concern is beating McCain and providing coattails for pickups in the House and Senate may not care about the strength of Clinton's policy proposals. Others will see policy differences as a more important factor or may view Hillary the more electable candidate because of her perceived toughness.

Whatever the case, it would be nice, for a change, to discuss these issues somberly, and without all the silly distractions about Hillary's "emasculating nature" or Obama's "cult of personality."

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See more stories tagged with: economy, election08, recession, lending crisis

Joshua Holland is an AlterNet staff writer.

AlterNet is a nonprofit organization and does not make political endorsements. The opinions expressed by its writers are their own.

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View:
Clinton Plan: More Neoliberal Economics ....
Posted by: mmckinl on Feb 19, 2008 12:56 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No plan to deal with the gaping trade deficit that will work. No plan to protect American workers and companies from currency manipulation and product dumping.

No reregulation of the financial industry despite the debacle they have created. This is cowardice on a gargantuan scale.

Most of Hillary's Plan is little more than business as usual and lacks even a shred of imagination or innovation. This plan is just more Wal Mart econ 101.

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» Foreclosed: Blame Bill Clinton Posted by: foreverhope
The candidates' plans are largely meaningless
Posted by: Moonray on Feb 19, 2008 1:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hillary's economic plan looks like a patchwork of quick-fixes to longstanding problems. Not that it matters, because such plans usually end up covered with dust on a shelf. It's up to Congress to change the nation's policies on various issues, and Congress is a bastion of "centrism" -- i.e., Chamber of Commerce attitudes -- and likely to remain that way. (Don't hold your breath waiting for affordable health care.)
Most Americans fail to grasp that re-electing their local, smiley-faced congressperson guarantees that change will be blocked and they will continue to get screwed by the smart-money boys. That is, most Americans continue to vote against their own interests. (All it takes to make this happen is a new patriotic slogan, a swiftboat smear campaign or a new war like the one that's now being cooked up in Kosovo.)

It's almost funny to watch the Hillary crowd gearing up to snatch the nomination away from Obama regardless of how many popular votes he gets. In any case, the Lords of the Status Quo are still firmly in control in Washington and likely to remain so regardless of who wins the presidential nomination. Might as well invest in war industries and make some money.

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Terrorist
Posted by: HeKnew on Feb 19, 2008 3:05 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Direct Primaries!

Direct Elections!

Direct Democracy!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

except you can't believe a word she says
Posted by: schnoggi on Feb 19, 2008 3:10 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
oh that. that pesky zero-integrity thing coming back to bite you, o greedy power-mad harridan. hurry into the ditch dearie, you're blocking the road. honestly, beyond his smoove oratory, i don't see that Obama has a whole lot going for him, except for that one big thing: he's not Hillary.

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The Economy is Just a Symptom of a Much Larger Issue
Posted by: skizum on Feb 19, 2008 4:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While I applaud the candidates efforts to address the economy, this does little to address a much more fundamental issue at the root of the problem; Human Nature. This is the topic that we urgently need to understand and learn to effective deal with.

Human nature is inescapable and fundamentally at the root of solving so many of the world's problems. We find ourselves at an important crossroad of having longer lifespans, better ways to control disease, more leisure time, instantaneous global communication and a wealth of recored history of human experiment... VS ...the ability to destroy ourselves very quickly or a bit slower, a path that we are currently and predictably on.

Allow me to broadly de-construct this issue a bit...Why do we have an aggressively growing gap between haves and have-nots nationally and globally? Why do we fight wars over resources? Why do the elite power brokers manipulate and deceive to consolidate more power? Why do employers cut benefits to raise their own profits? Why is the one economic scam or bubble bursting after another in increasing frequency?

I could go on asking 100 more similar questions and there will be a common answer to them all. These practices stem from one of most primal motivations integral to not only to human nature but animal nature as well...The need to dominate.

Think about it. Most mammals establish social order through dominance. Let's use the example of gorillas for the moment. The dominant alpha male establishes dominance through brute force so that he can have controlling access to territory, food, water, mating preference and so on. You can substitute many specific mammals into this model including humans.

In the case of humans, we have a much more developed sense of intellect, communication and technology to create many layers of complexity to camouflage our primal drive to dominate. Not only do we gain power through the enhanced brute force of armaments but we have developed languages which can be grossly malleable in meaning and rationale, susceptible to manipulation and control.

It is important for me to note that the need to dominate is not the only part of humane nature we need to pay attention to but it certainly is a good place to start. There are many other specific behavioral elements of the human condition that are common to us all.

I propose that we put a greater effort into identifying, verifying, disseminating an understanding of, assessing our individual and societal balance of the understanding of the elements of our own human nature. Let's create a humanely sustainable solution based on reality.

The Universal Humane Heeds Assessment Project:
My efforts in this regard go toward developing an intuitively understandable and comprehensively verifiable map or a periodic table describing the elements human behavior.

The theory goes something like this: Perhaps IF we can identify and verify a common set of needs/desires/experiences of the human condition AND realize a shared compassion for living humanely THEN we may be able to use these inherent truths as a basis from which to reevaluate our economic systems, social systems, governmental systems, environmental regulations and legal systems. The project is in it's infancy but growing steadily. While I understand that there is some research out there that correlates to mine, there is no doubt that the topic needs to be pushed to the forefront of our attention and should play a daily role in our conscious lives.

In effect, we need to come clean with reality and utilize our intellect and survival instinct to overcome our need to dominate as individuals.

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» Oh you mean to say that... Posted by: warriornation
Let's Face It...
Posted by: Urstrly on Feb 19, 2008 4:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The election of either Clinton or Obama is not going to hail the coming of a progressive era. The best we can hope for is more transparency and enlightened appointees to the federal courts including the Supreme Court; various regulatory agencies, such as the securities and Exchange Commission and the Federal Communications Commission; not to mention competent heads for agencies that that have been completely upended by the Republicans: the Environmental Protection Agency, the Labor Department, FEMA, etc.

I think Obama has a better shot at picking better people free of the ties of Bill Clinton's administration, K Street, and Wall Street. I'm not naive enough to think he'll pick mostly progressives; in the past he's never made either side of a divide happy.But if the process is more open, we will begin to repair the breech of trust and common decency that has tainted the federal government in recent years.

It doesn't bother me that Obama hasn't hammered out the details of what he plans to do, and maybe it should. It will take him longer to get used to the levers of power, and I'm sure there'll be missteps, but the idea of another Clinton administration is not inspiring.

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» RE: Let's Face It... Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Let's Face It... Posted by: Steve Adair
» RE: Let's Face It... Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Let's Face It... Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: Let's Face It... Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Illusions Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Illusions Posted by: nochicagoboys
Want Funding?!
Posted by: constitution, what constitution on Feb 19, 2008 6:03 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Simple.

1. Cut the War on Drugs (hey, thanks N&R Reagan!) and legalize all drugs, but tax them (think cigarettes). There's billions saved per year there plus the income from taxes. Then farmers can have the option to grow industrial grade *gasp* hemp! Not sure of the environmental implications, but the industrial positives are there.

2. Cut the War on Terror. Uh oh! $7-$10 Billion a day saved?

3. Refine the Fed. There are way too many people working for the gov't that don't have a clue what they're doing. My career brings me in contact with a couple of them weekly. Offer job training or cut the job. Even with training, some people need to be let go. The government is way too big. Also, make it easier to fire people from the government. If people aren't going to do the job, get them out.

4. Pour some money into alternative fuels (not ethanol). Creates jobs as well as a more independent country.

5. Use all the money from drug taxes to fund a health care system!

6. Our country can not economically handle a universal health care system. We can't even fund Medicare/Medicaid. We need drastic changes, but no one would get elected if they promised half the stuff I just wrote.

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» RE: Want Funding?! Posted by: mclemens
otto
Posted by: otto on Feb 19, 2008 6:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I disagree on the point that we can't afford universal health care; we have it here in Canada, and in most indusltrialized countries. We just lack the sense of priority and political will.
Along with dropping the war on terror, we need to change our world policies and stop doing the things that impoverish so much of the world and make so many enemies who might want to "get even" any way they can.

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» We can't :( Posted by: constitution, what constitution
» RE: We can't :( Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: We can't :( Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: We can't :( : Thanks Joshua Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: We can't :( Posted by: constitution, what constitution
» Oh, yes, you can. . . Posted by: Prairie Waif
spinning against Bush
Posted by: QCao009 on Feb 19, 2008 6:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Conservatives are already spinning the comparisons b/w Obama and Bush: we should never elect someone based on likeability. See what happened when we chose someone we wanted to have a beer with ?

The truth is our culture trends amnesiacs and slow learners. We keep making the same mistake, hoping things will turn out differently.

For a change, boring would be good. Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh for Hillary Clinton ? Either hell has frozen over or the "endorsement" has about as much effect as the Ted Kennedy imitation of Howard Dean !!!

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» Conservatives? Are you sure?. . . Posted by: Prairie Waif
clinton bashing
Posted by: freshlemon on Feb 19, 2008 6:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I keep reading comments about the dishonesty, lies, lack of ability and bad intentions of Senator Hillary Clinton.

I'm starting to wonder if the whole world knows things about her that I don't. Yes, I know that she has been linked in the past to things like White Water,that her touted health care plan of the nineties got pushed aside,that she was a corporate attorney, that rumors of her complicity in illegal maneuvering ran rampant in her time as First Lady; but that was part and parcel of the goals of Republicans and religious zealots to use smoke and mirrors to discredit both Clintons.(Apparently it is worse to have an illicit sexual encounter than to kill thousands in a war based on lies. Wish some folks would grow up and stop worshipping sex as a talking and acting point!)


Yes, she along with the majority of congressionals voted yes on the Iraq debacle when she and they were given the Bushco lies pointing to the need for the war. Too late, she along with the others realized that this was a war of aggression based on lies.Her position on the war has been stated. Granted she has been reticent about it, but would be premature in emphatically stating her intentions since a lot can happen in the next 10 months while this current administration runs rampant.

I do know that she has produced many ideas and plans for resolving issues of a wide range.Some good, some not so good, some hastily thought through to fit her campaign, but all of them her own. I also believe that Senator Obama "borrowed" some of these plans as his own. He appeared to get a lot of praise for them while their origins from Senator Clinton got shuffled to the bottom of the media pile.

I also feel that she is willing to play hard ball when the need arises. This has always been a relatively admirable characteristic of past presidents. Was that because they have all been male?

Those of you who have so many vitriolic comments about Senator Clinton need to educate me. Being a little slow, I need specifics and not just comments like 'she's a liar'. What are her lies? What has she actually done to earn the descriptions liar,thief,harridan,hawkish,dynastic Clinton,deceptive,neo-con,corporate shill,and even the ever popular bitch?

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» Some facts as I see them Posted by: Drclaw
An Issues Based Article
Posted by: Southern Gal on Feb 19, 2008 6:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you Joshua for an issues based article with analysis. This is the type of substance regarding the presidential campaign that I have been looking for on Alternet. We have to get the "fixes" to the economy through the Congress and in that process get them through the lobbyists for all of those corporations who like things fine the way they are. I agree that we won't see any great progressive movement in the near future or the first term of the Democrat presidency. I do hope that we can adopt some policies that can be built upon to work toward the more progressive policies. I would like to see both candidates admit that the "free trade" policies have done damage to the working classes of this and other countries and that now that the damage has been shown, there can be a rethinking and retooling of those policies. Policies and agreements evolve and it is good strategic thinking to evaluate them in light of the results of their implementation.

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Josh-I will vote for Hillary ONLY if
Posted by: Drclaw on Feb 19, 2008 7:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
she stops engaging in the destructive, hypocritical and cynical campaign strategies (speech plagarizing?? COME ON!), and she wins WITHOUT seating the FL or MI delegates. My reasons:
How can I even trust someone to provide reasonable governance and leadership when they follow a scorched earth campaign? An egomanaical and destructive candidate will be the same as a president, and regardless of the policy soundness, how much cred would a candidate like this have?. Over the long term, a democratic party that continues to advance candidates like this (or allows them to change the rules in mid-stream to secure the nomination) is a looser and not a serious alternative to the Rethugs. Supporting this process now only makes it worse (God, is that even possible?) later.

Notice I am agnostic about the Super delegates. ALot has been written about this, and the best comment seems to be that both candidates are pursuing them. OK-fair enough.

Josh-I really appreciate your analysis, but am very curious about your thoughts on supporting a demo candidate vs supporting the system. I just can't bring myself to do the latter if it is so obviously broken.

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McCain will unfortunately win the White House no matter which Dem is nominated
Posted by: maxpayne on Feb 19, 2008 8:04 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Both are chalked with very scandalous controversies and neither one of them can show that they'll diffuse them effectively. Besides, both are TRIANGULATORS. Finally, the media and even some liberals are ready to fall in love with Mccain and allow him to finish fucking the country to DEATH ! The "fix" is already in !!

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The DLC isn't relevant?
Posted by: johnclark on Feb 19, 2008 8:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Josh, you should take a look at the Democratic Leadership Council website. Once there, pick up a copy of "The American Dream Initiative". This is the Clinton/DLC blueprint. Put the new stuff side by side w/"the National Conversation" and see what I mean.

Hillary Clinton IS the DLC. My own governor had to endorse her because of his DLC ties (the Baltimore Sun had a story about what a bad move it was for him).

A good place to start when it comes to Senator Obama's economic ideas is this NYT piece from Feb 2nd

I thought this part enlightening:

More so than any other candidate this year, Mr. Obama has surrounded his campaign’s policy team with professional economists (most of them, like him, still shy of their 50th birthdays), as opposed to former White House officials or Congress members.

Several Obama proposals have their roots in an academic field known as behavioral economics, which points out how often people can be tripped up by complex bureaucracies. Mr. Obama sometimes talks about an “iPod government” that can achieve its aims by presenting choices more simply. Under one proposal, Medicare would be required to present its prescription drug plans more clearly, to cut down on the number of people who sign up for a more expensive one than they need.

His interest in “ease, convenience and usability,” he said, came from two sources — his years as a community organizer in Chicago, where he often saw people struggle to understand the choices they had, and his own experience trying to make sense of his 401(k) plan.

Mr. Obama’s father was also an economist, from Kenya, who received his Ph.D. at Harvard. And Mr. Obama’s first job out of college was at a trade publication for multinational businesses, where he was a financial writer.

At times, he can sound like an economic analyst, weaving stories that link seemingly disparate topics. The weak income growth of the last generation, he said, caused many families to dip into their home equity, which led to the crisis in the mortgage market. That crisis, in turn, hurt the balance sheets of American financial firms and forced them to seek cash infusions from overseas governments, which has raised some national-security concerns.

“I don’t think anybody knew exactly how that would get us in trouble,” he said, referring to the increase in consumer debt over the last two decades. “But it was predictable that it would get us in trouble.”

This period includes the late 1990s, when wages rose significantly for workers up and down the income spectrum.

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» RE: The DLC isn't relevant? Posted by: Joshua Holland
Absolute Answers?
Posted by: rigpa44 on Feb 19, 2008 8:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fact is, no one really has all of the answers about anything no matter how good the plans seem to be. Proposals are just that, proposals. Ideas are simply ideas. The American public and a cadre of experts need to weigh in on what needs to be done. Know-it-all political pontifications breeds more top-down politics which is what we've been putting up with for seven years, and look how well it's worked. Clinton's hyper-willful, ram-rod style as President will create more divisions no matter how good her ideas are. The Republicans will duck and cover, or simply ignore her stomping and swinging in the air. And nothing will get done. On the other hand Obama provides the wisdom and vision that is needed as President in these times. Concrete ideas and actions will flow from bringing together ALL of the constituencies that make for powerful decision-making. Clinton can't bring people together if she's going to run rough-shod over them with her supposedly superior agenda, and try to dominate and manipulate people to saddle up and ride with her. The days of Clintonian old-school politics has past. She'll be great at learning how to be a better person, a better politician and a better accomplisher by working in the Senate until she retires, like Ted Kennedy has done. When the shoe fits, put it on, and wear it with dignity and acceptance.

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If it helps the middle class, it helps me.
Posted by: Sojourner on Feb 19, 2008 8:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am glad to see that some specific proposals are up for discussion. We need programs and not just hot air. We have a mountain of unaddressed issues. For the last 28 years, scrambling to get rich has passed for a national strategy.

My litmus test has become the preservation of the planet. Add to the the narrowing of the gap between rich and poor. But hopefully whoever is elected might give us some leadership that does not shirk the difficulties by denying that we have environmental problems.

I realize how unprepared I am to comprehend the meaning of a positive economic strategy for working people--the trickle-down lie has dominated for so long.It will help the middle class for some of the most wealthy to be brought down a peg or two, assuming that economics is a zero sum game of winners and losers.

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AlterNet has done a lot of PRO-Hillary articles.....
Posted by: Voicedude on Feb 19, 2008 9:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.....but am I the only one who can see that she will NOT beat a Republican in the election - especially not McCain?!? Obama can and will win, but Hillary cannot. One main reason is because there will be absolutely no crossover votes from the GOP, who still have a major bug up their butt over Bill. I often think that all this pro-Hillary rhetoric is actually being fueled by the Repugs because they know this to be true as well. They WANT us to nominate Broom Hillary! Because that'll seal the deal for their candidate!

Yes, I agree - Obama needs to say something, something with some weight and meaning. Hillary sure knows how to do that, but she doesn't mean what she says. She knows how to play the game and has no problem playing it. But nominate her and you put a Republican back in the White House. John McCain, no less!

WAKE UP!!!

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Speech
Posted by: willymack on Feb 19, 2008 9:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I watched Hillary giving a speech last night in Wisconsin. She was relaxed, poised, articulate, and WARM. After the speech, she answered questions. I saw no evation or hesitation in her replies. As to her economic plan being tenuous, she said herself that it was too comprehensive to get into in any great detail then and there, and suggested a visit to her website, to get the full details. Contrast this with the stumbling, fumbling, bumbling blather of bush or mccain, who are on guard for "trick" questions that may unmask their TRUE thoughts or intensions. If one is looking for the "real deal", Clinton and Obama are ahead of mccain by a mile.

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More of the Same or Risk? You make the call!
Posted by: radical53 on Feb 19, 2008 9:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The choice between Clinton and Obama really boils down to a choice between mediocrity and risk. I believe Hillary Clinton would be a slightly better President than Bill Clinton was. She would tackle only what she thought was do-able. Her style of micro-managing the administration would limit her agenda. Her boldest plan, universal health care, would be defeated in Congress. The economy would get better. The end of the war in Iraq would be delayed years beyond what she is now promising. Overall, a trend toward a more peaceful world would begin.

With Obama, there is the possibility of the first great President since FDR. He would try to bridge political divisions and compromise to get things done, including significant progress on health care. He would end the war in Iraq more quickly than Hillary. He would create a more peaceful world more quickly than Hillary. The risk is that he could run into some unexpected challenge(s) that he might not handle as adroitly as Hillary, rendering his whole Presidency less effective.

My questions to the electorate are, how bad do things have to get before we will take the risk for real change and how big is the risk with someone as talented as Obama?

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» You'll Keep Asking That Question Posted by: pdxstudent
There's jobs to be made
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Feb 19, 2008 10:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Any plan should include everyone. Money needs to flow from the bottom up. Forget tax breaks for the wealthy, they made it, they don't need them. How about no taxes on families that make less than $50,000 per year? You'll never see that happen,but it would be one of the best things that could be done. How about the Environment?? Ask yourself this:
"Just how valuable is a raincloud that holds nothing but pure water?"
My guess is you'd find it more valuable than gold. And you'd be right. Truth is there's more than enough jobs to be had restoring the Environment than there are in killing folks for Bush. There's as much science and techie jobs as there are day labor jobs.
Any 'econ-package' should encompass all phases of life. So far I see no one that's filling the bill. Some will do well,most will stay the same or get a little worse. I don't think we could take any more worse. It's time to end Reagan style thinking. That's what got us here.
Let's think outside the system.
Jeffrey7

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Clinton is to easy to beat
Posted by: solrev on Feb 19, 2008 10:07 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Clinton would establish a $30 billion fund to aid states and municipalities
Providing an average of $650 in emergency home-heating assistance
Invest unspecified funds to create 5 million new "green collar jobs" over the next decade.
Invest at least $10 billion in critical infrastructure
creating a $50 billion strategic energy fund; doubling the research budgets
$100 million investment yields $910 million in new investments (a little supply side)
generous matching (401K) plan for all Americans
Hillary will commit $1 billion annually in a Family Leave Innovation Fund

If this is substance, the repuks are going to have a field day with this tax and spend demon.

I am going to spend 12% of the income taxes plus medicare taxes on healthcare. No citizen or employer will ever see a bill.
I am going to spend 30% of the income taxes for defense until I can clean up the current mess. Then I will spend the money on moon colonization as the future pollution free energy source for planet earth.
I am going to spend 8% of the income taxes on veterans and past war debts.
I am going to spend 10% of the income taxes on education.
I am going to spend 10% of the income taxes on national and international intelligence.
I am going to spend 6% on the cost of government.
I am going to spend 14% on infrastructure including the development of a national electric train transportation system to replace the outdated air transportation system.
I am going to spend 10% of the taxes to reduce coal co2 pollution by producing Algae biodiesel. Until moon base alpha is online.

I am going to tax the corporate world to pay the interest on the national debt and debt reduction equal to 10% of the above budget. Now that is substance take over Obama.

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This is why our economy sucks
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Feb 19, 2008 10:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Middle Class died when Nixon got elected!!! Now it's become 'middle income', which is an even bigger farce! Why do I say that? Let me run it down to you.
This comes straight form the govt's own figuring. Say you live in a place like Appleton Wisconsin,pop. 69.000+. What Uncle Pissy Pants calls 'Medium Level LOW INCOME for this area is 42,000/yr. Yes, $42,000/yr. That's with a family with 2 children, if it's just you and your mate, $ 36,000 per year.
So the TOP 1% of LOW INCOME with a family would be $125,000/yr or approximatly $85,000/yr. for a couple. Now remember this is LOW INCOME for a town 60,000+
If you live in NYC,LA, of any other BIG city it's $ 53,000, $44,000 and $ 145,000 respectivly, all LOW INCOME for those areas.
Now think about this.....80% of Americans are LOW INCOME. This is unthinkable in a country that used to pride itself on the opinion that a person who had a family of 5,working a 40 hour week,making $35,000/yr, could own a house,have a good car and a vacation spot, pay all the household bills and keep the kids in the latest of things without being 'showy'. I don't know anyone making $35,000/yr. with three kids that has that kind of ability today.
According to the feds, MID-LEVEL MIDDLE INCOME, 350,000/YR!!!!! That's barely good enough to get you an efficency appt. to 'own', as a fixer-upper, that costs $500,000 in the Big City. This is also unthinkable.
For 80% of us the cost of Living is almost unbearable. They don't factor in food and gas when they tell us 'prices have gone up only slightly'. They don't tell us the 100% utility increase was due to the fines the Power Company had to pay for over pollution fines. Try asking your boss for a 100% raise the next time you've got a ticket to pay.
80% of us are having the money sucked out of our wallets faster than a hoover in overdrive. 80% of us are still waiting for the light to even flicker in the tunnel or even see the 'end' we're supposed to meet. We're the people that need the most from any sort od governance,NOT the Coperations or Upper Middle Income and Upper Income People. They hoard the wealth of the Nation on the backs of the LOWER INCOME.
80% of us have the absolute power to change the way the system works!
80% of us can be the change we want to see in the world. There's one small hangup though. 80% of don't have the money. That's true. That's why there needs to be an Executive Order written that relieves all taxes on the Low Income. Think of what you could do with NO TAXES ON LOW INCOMES.
Then we stop the second drain on your monies,compound interest rates.
The banks steal your money for doing nothing. The house you own will cost three times as much in 'interest payments' as you paid for it. You are being robbed buy the banks! They should only be allowed to charge a 'Flat Rate Interest' no matter how long you had to pay it off.
80% of us can make these things happen. 80% of us can build a better society. 80% of us can bring Peace to the World.
Draft Jeffrey7 for Prez, It's the only vote that counts!!!

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» RE: divide and conquer Posted by: solrev
» RE: divide and conquer Posted by: jeffrey7
People Need to Know
Posted by: Andie927 on Feb 19, 2008 10:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have no 'Dog' in this race. I supported Edwards, and I really don't like any of the other three choices. I just spent 4 hours researching, one of three of Obama's 'chief economic advisers'.
IT's IMPORTANT! Do you want people making an informed choice NOW, or do you want it coming out after the nomination, when 'we' have no Choice left?

The Nation magazine, Feb. 11th issue, 'Subprime Obama' by Max Fraser:

"Obama's disappointing foreclosure plan stems from the centrist politics of his three chief economic advisers and his campaign's ties to Wall Street institutions opposed to increased financial regulation" last sentence same paragrph: "Cutler advocates improving healthcare through financial incentives; Liebman, the partial privatization of Social Security."

I googled, 'Liebman Jeffrey economist'. and read ALL seven links, some going back to 2004! Some very long. The Private Retirement Accounts (PRA) on Obama's web site, are part of this 'plan', which when you read the whole thing calls for a cut in benefits, by 45% by changing accounting methods, it's almost identical to what Bush wanted!

Please, don't believe me! Go look for yourself!

Obama just came out with his economic plan, on Feb. 13th; why was he running for Prez??
No, I'm not saying Hillary is any better!
They are BOTH: Corporatist/Centrist's, neither one of them is even close to a true PROGRESSIVE!! Why do you think Al Gore hasn't endorsed? Both are FOR Nuclear Power & Coal! Edwards can't endorse, because of Both of their corporate coziness! Hillary's well known, and Obama's just coming out to Wall Street! There goes Healthcare vs. Insurance, and Social Security!

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» RE: People Need to Know Posted by: Joshua Holland
Obama's Senate Accomplishments
Posted by: bacalove on Feb 19, 2008 1:11 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They say Barack has no experience in public service and does not offer solutions. Here are a list of some of Barack Obama's accomplishments: During first (8) eight years of his elected service he sponsored over 820 bills. He introduced 233 regarding healthcare reform, 125 on poverty and public assistance, 112 crime fighting bills, 97 economic bills, 60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills, 21 ethics reform bills, 15 gun control, 6 veterans affairs and many others. His first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427. These included: **the Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 (became law), **The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act, (became law), **The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, passed the Senate, **The 2007 Government Ethics Bill, (became law), **The Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, (In committee), and many more. In all Barack Obama has Over 20 Years of Public Service and has offered many solutions on health care, global warming, the Iraq War, college tuition grant to students, education reform, the re-building of our infrastructure and much more.

Just because the Clintons repeat over and over again that Barack lack's experience does not make it so.

And the Words Duval used in his prior speech, WERE NOT HIS WORDS EITHER, they are everyone's words used in most political speeches today!

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Question on "USA accounts" and 401K matches
Posted by: be_fearless on Feb 19, 2008 7:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Clinton would provide a 'generous matching (401K) plan for all Americans.' The plan would provide up to $1,000 in tax credits to 'match' what working families put away in savings."

Is it just me or do "USA accounts" and "matching 401K plans" sound a heck of a lot like the first step towards privatization of Social Security? Aren't tax dollars that go into private 401K or savings accounts basically subsidies for the financial industry? It guarantees profit, does it not?

I'm all for helping Americans save, but this sounds fishy to me, especially given the power that corporate lobbyists have in this country.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

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There couldn't be
Posted by: boundjymind on Feb 21, 2008 5:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But, it's what I would expect. There would never be any real reform under another Clinton regime. There couldn't be. She's so tied to banking and other corporate interests, which is the basis of the problem in this country, that the band-aids are all they will allow her.

It seems he posted a personal profile on a herpes dating site called herpesmates.com. what happen?

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Yes, Hillary offers the better solution to this country economic problems.
Posted by: fornov1 on Feb 25, 2008 9:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hillary Clinton is exactly what we need as president. The country is in deep trouble economically and in terms of its foreign policy. We need someone who can fix the problems without introducing 'change', whose meaning is hardly understood by Obama's supporters.

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Hillary's vs Obama's policies
Posted by: urmil on Mar 3, 2008 9:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the 3 major policy areas of tackling home foreclosures, foreign policy and healthcare, Hillary scores over Obama. Here’s my analysis.

Home mortgage crisis: Obama’s plan does not call for a moratorium on home foreclosures and an interest-rate freeze. His much more tepid plan of tax credit for home-owners stems from the deregulation free-market policies of his economic advisers who have strong connections to Wall street. He claims that Hillary’s plan (moratorium on home foreclosures) would cause mortgage rate increases for existing home buyers/owners. While that could be true the economic disadvantages of that are nothing compared to the tsunami of economic woes that are assailing the nation and the huge collateral damage that are and will be affecting ALL, including those who are currently affording their homes, if the home foreclosure issue is not handled strictly and immediately. Anything else will be too little, too late.

Foreign policy: Obama gave a speech in 2002 against the Iraq war before he joined the Senate. That is not the same as voting against the war while holding political office A speech’s true sincerity emerges when it is made despite its risk to one’s political office. With this standard very few, with the exception of Kucinich perhaps, can stand up to scrutiny. Obama wants to take troops out of Iraq but is just as quick to add that he will redeploy them in the region. If his haste at unilateralism (attacking Pakistan) is any indication, retraction notwithstanding, it gives one the impression of impulsiveness and naivete which are a dangerous combination in foreign policy.

Healthcare: Both Obama’s and Hillary’s are basically very alike with the exception that Obama’s does not call for mandatory universal coverage. There can be no true and equitable and even affordable healthcare without mandatory coverage. If given the option to join, too many just making ends meet, will opt out but end up in the emergency room during catastrophes, resulting in the buck being passed on in a totally unplanned way to the system which will inevitably ratchet up the costs in unforeseen and incalculable ways.

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