Get us out of here!"" />
  ELECTION 2008  
Barbaraehrenreich.com / By Barbara Ehrenreich
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 244

Obama's Campaign: An Emotional Escape Hatch from the Bush Era

When Americans vote for "change," what they're really saying is, "Get us out of here!"
February 16, 2008  |  
 
 
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When did you begin to think that Obama might be unstoppable? Was it when your grown feminist daughter started weeping inconsolably over his defeat in New Hampshire? Or was it when he triumphed in Virginia, a state still littered with Confederate monuments and memorabilia? For me, it was on Tuesday night when two Republican Virginians in a row called CSPAN radio to report that they'd just voted for Ron Paul, but, in the general election, would vote for ... Obama.

In the dominant campaign narrative, his appeal is mysterious and irrational: He's a "rock star," all flash and no substance, tending dangerously, according to the New York Times' Paul Krugman, to a "cult of personality." At best, he's seen as another vague Reagan-esque avatar of Hallmarkian sentiments like optimism and hope. While Clinton, the designated valedictorian, reaches out for the ego and super-ego, he supposedly goes for the id. She might as well be promoting choral singing in the face of Beatlemania.

The Clinton coterie is wringing its hands. Should she transform herself into an economic populist, as Paul Begala pleaded on Tuesday night? This would be a stretch, given her technocratic and elitist approach to health reform in 1993, her embarrassing vote for a credit card company-supported bankruptcy bill in 2001, among numerous other lapses. Besides, Obama already just leaped out in front of her with a resoundingly populist economic program on Wednesday.

Or should she reconfigure herself, untangle her triangulations, and attempt to appeal to the American people in some deep human way, with or without a tear or two? This, too, would take heavy lifting. Someone needs to tell her that there are better ways to signal conviction than by raising one's voice and drawing out the vowels, as in "I KNOW ..." and "I BELIEVE ..." The frozen smile has to go too, along with the metronymic nodding, which sometimes goes on long enough to suggest a placement within the autism spectrum.

But I don't think any tweakings of the candidate or her message will work, and not because Obama-mania is an occult force or a kind of mass hysteria. Let's take seriously what he offers, which is "change." The promise of "change" is what drives the Obama juggernaut, and "change" means wanting out of wherever you are now. It can even mean wanting out so badly that you don't much care, as in the case of the Ron Paul voters cited above, exactly what that change will be. In reality, there's no mystery about the direction in which Obama might take us: He's written a breathtakingly honest autobiography; he has a long legislative history, and now, a meaty economic program. But no one checks the weather before leaping out of a burning building.

Consider our present situation. Thanks to Iraq and water-boarding, Abu Ghraib and the "rendering" of terror suspects, we've achieved the moral status of a pariah nation. The seas are rising. The dollar is sinking. A growing proportion of Americans have no access to health care; an estimated 18,000 die every year for lack of health insurance. Now, as the economy staggers into recession, the financial analysts are wondering only whether the rest of the world is sufficiently "de-coupled" from the US economy to survive our demise.

Clinton can put forth all the policy proposals she likes -- and many of them are admirable ones -- but anyone can see that she's of the same generation and even one of the same families that got us into this checkmate situation in the first place. True, some people miss Bill, although the nostalgia was severely undercut by his anti-Obama rhetoric in South Carolina, or maybe they just miss the internet bubble he happened to preside over. But even more people find dynastic successions distasteful, especially when it's a dynasty that produced so little by way of concrete improvements in our lives. Whatever she does, the semiotics of her campaign boils down to two words -- "same old."

Obama is different, really different, and that in itself represents "change." A   Kenyan-Kansan with roots in Indonesia and multiracial Hawaii, he seems to be the perfect answer to the bumper sticker that says, "I love you America, but isn't it time to start seeing other people?" As conservative commentator Andrew Sullivan has written, Obama's election could mean the re-branding of America. An anti-war black president with an Arab-sounding name: See, we're not so bad after all, world!

So yes, there's a powerful emotional component to Obama-mania, and not just because he's a far more inspiring speaker than his rival. We, perhaps white people especially, look to him for atonement and redemption. All of us, of whatever race, want a fresh start. That's what "change" means right now: Get us out of here!

Barbara Ehrenreich is the author of thirteen books, including the New York Times bestseller Nickel and Dimed. A frequent contributor to the New York Times, Harpers, and the Progressive, she is a contributing writer to Time magazine. She lives in Florida.
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Someone to lead us out of the desert?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: nochicagoboys on Feb 16, 2008 12:42 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ms. Ehrenreich, you may be on to something. Is Senator Obama the modern day equivalent of Moses who supporters are hoping will lead them out of the desert. Let's hope, unlike Moses, that it doesn't take forty years.

The obvious next question is, once safely out, then where?

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» Chill!!! Posted by: sanddollar
» RE: Chill!!! Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Chill!!! Posted by: lenioui
» RE: Chill!!! Posted by: sanddollar
» RE: Chill!!! Posted by: lenioui
» RE: Chill!!! Posted by: sanddollar
» RE: Chill!!! Posted by: lenioui
» RE: Chill!!! Posted by: sanddollar
» RE: Chill!!! Posted by: lenioui
» RE: Chill!!! Posted by: sanddollar
» RE: Chill!!! Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Chill!!! Posted by: lenioui
» RE: Chill!!! Posted by: sanddollar
» Maybe it must take decades. Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» RE: Maybe it must take decades. Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Maybe it must take decades. Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Maybe it must take decades. Posted by: no1kstate

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Don't get hopes up TOO high, just yet
[Report this comment]
Posted by: MobileSucks on Feb 16, 2008 2:51 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What fun it is reading Barbara Ehrenreich.And what an agreeable commentator she is.

(Having said that) I don't find Obama unstoppable quite yet. I am just beginning to think that he might get the nomination. I do hope so. I've predicted Clinton would be it and then there is this super delegate business which to me is just disgusting, but just maybe the better and obviously more popular candidate will win. It ain't over yet. Nobody out there relax. The Clintons never rest. They're relentless.

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Old Lady Pleased by Thoughtful Comments
[Report this comment]
Posted by: naomi dagen bloom on Feb 16, 2008 4:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
invigorating and reassuring to read the few comments that come before mine. i'd almost stopped reading alternet due to the long-winded anger and vicious rhetoric of many commenters.

the art of possibility is what obama brings to the contest. yes, his election might be the most important statement by americans about our wish to move beyond racial divide that the 19th century civil war did not resolve.

as a feminist, i know that it will be harder for a woman to be accepted as a leader in this country. perhaps we can start with a woman vice president--not necessarily hillary clinton.

naomi, elderblogging at http://www.alittleredhen.com

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» RE: Old Lady Pleased by Thoughtful Comments Posted by: Kitty Lady Oregon
» Just a bizarre coincidence? Posted by: sanddollar

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Rebecca from OHIO
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Bec59 on Feb 16, 2008 4:45 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have read Ms Ehrenreich's books about going "undercover" to see what it is to be in low-paying work as a Home Health Aid (one of the few growing career choices = $7 per hr. changing old peoples' diapers)or as a middle-manager pushed out then invited by saavy marketers to "remake" themselves only to lose thousands of dollars and still not finding work--good, fast reading that teaches you alot!

I know that the American people will choose either Hillary or Obama--(or Mccain), whoever gets the job, I feel very sorry for. So much damage has been done.

I do believe either Clinton or Obama will put their hearts into the job---so let us get behind the one who gets the nomination and get on with the hard work ahead!

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

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» RE: ebecca from OHIO Posted by: rinpochet
» RE: ebecca from OHIO Posted by: Bec59
» RE: ebecca from OHIO Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: ebecca from OHIO Posted by: Bec59

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"may you live in exciting times" is a curse
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Suzon on Feb 16, 2008 5:10 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some people seem to believe that the American people have deserved to be cursed in exactly this way, but why? This article suggests one possible reason: a willingness to feel and believe in elevated rhetoric.

This is nothing new in American history. Bronson Alcott (father of the novelist Louisa May Alcott) was a destitute peddlar who stopped selling sundry goods door to door and transformed himself into a popular theorist and lecturer. He drew large crowds and mesmerised them with his speeches, yet when his listeners tried to recall the gist of what he said they failed.

An even more charismatic figure in 19th century America was the circus clown Dan Rice. Rice had an urge to be all things to all people and he succeeded to an amazing degree, temporarily bridging the gap between roguery and respectability (George W, anyone?). David Carlyon's excellent biography takes Rice at breakneck speed from pig presenter to serious presidential candidate. He became one of the most famous men in America, probably seen by more Americans than anyone else at the time. (It ended in tears, by the way.)

One could say that presentation isn't everything, it's the only thing in American political life.

The question that should be asked is not "Does Obama make us feel good?" but "How did we become so gullible?"

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» Gullible People Posted by: MobileSucks
» RE: Absolutely right. Posted by: Longdream
» RE: You've got to be kidding. Posted by: Longdream
» RE: You've got to be kidding. Posted by: Longdream
» RE: di·plo·ma·cy Posted by: Longdream
» RE: di·plo·ma·cy Posted by: lenioui
» RE: di·plo·ma·cy Posted by: lenioui
» RE: di·plo·ma·cy Posted by: Longdream
» RE: di·plo·ma·cy Posted by: Longdream
» RE: di·plo·ma·cy Posted by: lenioui
» RE: Thank you for this. Posted by: Longdream
» Somewhat wrong about AmeriCorps Posted by: jackl2400

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Oh Oh, the Iraqis wanted to change too
[Report this comment]
Posted by: agathena on Feb 16, 2008 5:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and look what they got. Diaspora of 5 million refugees, homelessness, massive pollution of the landscape, bombing of villages and cities, 100,000 - 600,000 civilians killed, looting of their museums...

What the USA needs is recovery and reclamation from the devastating Bush era. I hope whoever wins is strong and true and surrounds himself/herself with a brain trust to initiate that recovery.

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Change and Hope
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Posted by: ot on Feb 16, 2008 6:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Recent presidential campaigns have revealed the jaw-dropping stupidity of the American people.

Have any of them, not to mention their liberal pundit mouthpieces, even given a moments thought to how vacuous buzzwords like "change" and "hope" are to be implemented?

I am in the software industry and can only imagine the reaction of customers if we proposed implementing their requirements in terms of "change" and "hope". Umh... yes, we're going to 'change' some things and 'hope' that it will work.

So how in the world can such terminology be taken seriously in the infinitely more complex domain of governing a country not to mention the influence it has over the rest of the world?

Yes, Obama has economic and health care plans. But how many Americans even know what they are much less analyzed in any detail if they are viable given how the system really works. Probably not many, and it's because the same Americans who obediently consume whatever the messages on radio and TV tell them to can't get past the buzzwords.

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» RE: Change and Hope Posted by: tiellis
» RE: Change and Hope Posted by: rinpochet
» RE: Change and Hope Posted by: bapeterson
» RE: Change and Hope Posted by: Bec59
» RE: apprehend (ăp'rĭ-hĕnd') Posted by: Longdream

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Beatlemania, Indeed!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Urstrly on Feb 16, 2008 6:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I loved Ehrenreich's line about Clinton promoting choral singing to Obama's Beatlemania. Let's not forget that the Beatles were brilliant musicians as well as much-promoted pop stars. Every time Clinton complains about Obama's rhetoric, you know she's kicking herself for listening to the likes of Paul Begala and Mark Penn and Howard Wolfson and James Carville (do I see a trend here?) Should have listened to Peter, Paul and Mary or Dylan at least: the answer is blowing in the wind.

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CHANGE, BUT IT WON'T BE EASY
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Feb 16, 2008 8:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's what Obama says. We will be expected to "do something". On that subject he's vague.We had the greatest country in the world because we had the greatest people in the world.So we can't continue the self absorbed lifestyle with everyone alienated and not wanting to get their hands dirty. Dumbing down is no excuse. We just found out what happens when people don't pay attention. This is not a 'one man/woman' operaton. It's everybody. ANNA

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rubart
[Report this comment]
Posted by: art614 on Feb 16, 2008 8:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Barbara's argument is so on-target. I don't think Obama would have had nearly the success he's having otherwise. Not because he wouldn't be a damned good president--chances are excellent that he would be--but because he just doesn't show enough experience yet. Well, we've had enough experience, and look where we are. As Barbara says so perfectly, You don't ask what the weather is before jumping out of a burning building. And one of the joys of my life will be all those Bush supporters who hate the thought of a "black" president (though I prefer to call Obama "multi-racial"), knowing full well--if they're conscious enough--that Bush was exactly the burning building that put Obama in the White House.

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» RE: Experience Posted by: foreverhope

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Amen! There's no going back now...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: deepseas on Feb 16, 2008 8:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Barbara, where've you been all my life? You express many of my thoughts...and so well.

There's no going back, even if Obama does not win - although I think he has a good chance. While the task to clean up the Bush mess before him is daunting, he will get all the help he needs.

The enthusiasm for Obama has carried over to the House and Senate. Many legislators will give him their best input.

Just look at his website. Each person gets a blog of their own, with the opportunity to join any of the various organizations within his site. Each person has input to Obama through an organized pipeline of communication - one of his themes.

Taking advantage of technology and getting input from everyone, Obama has the ability to get the best, most progressive ideas for consideration. As an instructor, I have used this method on a tiny scale...and it works!

When people are included in a process - regardless of their status - they do amazing things and gladly give of themselves.

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Change?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Stellaa on Feb 16, 2008 9:20 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gee, looks like just any other corporatist, misogynist with a better speech writer and a dabble of DNA change. Sorry, I do not want an idol for president. I want someone who can do the work.

While he sits in office preserving his manufactured persona of change, all his apologists will be attacking us non-believers telling us how it's good for us cause two Republicans on C-span (probably plants) said he would vote for him.

Sorry, folks, I am still angry and not willing to sell out to shallow empty vessel of contrived unity and hope. This is serious and I am not handing over the keys to the country to Peter Pan and the "elder white men" who thought he is deemed ready to take the torch of Camelot.

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» RE: Change? ***STELLAA** Posted by: maribelle
» RE: Change? ***STELLAA** Posted by: lenioui
» RE: Change? ***STELLAA** Posted by: improperly_sedated
» RE: Change? ***STELLAA** Posted by: lenioui
» RE:Huh? Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Huh? Posted by: Bec59
» RE: Huh? Posted by: Longdream

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OBAMA = win now, lose later?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Jersey Devil on Feb 16, 2008 9:39 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama may win the race but will loose the war once the Republican shadow campaigns focus their racist hate rumor machine on him. This race will degenerate to race and experience which both cast Obama as the loser. Hillary's supporters have already voted against Obama and will likely do the same again in November if given the opportunity. So the blazing hot Obama campaign will flame out and deliver to the Democratic Party it's third consecutive Presidential defeat. The winning Democratic ticket is Clinton / Obama for two terms and then Obama/ ??? for two more terms. 16 years of Democratic Presidency or 8 more years of Republican Raping the non-rich.

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» RE: How about just win? Posted by: Longdream

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Hillary Far From Royalty
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Tishijo on Feb 16, 2008 10:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Should she transform herself, should she reconfigure? Yeesh! Obama leads because he is genuine PERIOD. The only way that Clinton will get the nomination is if Americans believe the smears, and false allegations she has made against Obama. I believe America wants truth and integrity in our President and will continue to vote accordingly. The former First Lady may think she is royalty and entitled but her campaign strategy to lie against her opponent puts her in a much lower place.

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Genuine
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Stellaa on Feb 16, 2008 10:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
politician. Genuine misogynist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qNpeGPdhEw&eurl

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» balony Posted by: Declan
» "On The Rag" Sub-Text Posted by: Nebris
» RE: You disgusting pig. Posted by: Longdream

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Sorcerer99
[Report this comment]
Posted by: sorcerer99 on Feb 16, 2008 10:22 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hate to be the one to wake you up from your wet dream, but if the Democrats do indeed nominate Omama, I smell another Mondale '84 wreck. This country will not elect a minority (especially one with a thin resume) to its highest office.

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» RE: Sorcerer99 Posted by: Stellaa
» RE: Sorcerer99 Posted by: Lauren
» RE: The Idiot Effect Posted by: Longdream
» This Country Already Did Posted by: LeaderofMen
» RE: What I smell. Posted by: Longdream
» RE: What I smell. Posted by: Bec59
» RE: What I smell. Posted by: Longdream

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Thebigkate
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Thebigkate on Feb 16, 2008 11:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excellent article! I always enjoy your articulate point of view! However, one thing you neglected to mention about Obama is his anti-war stance. I believe he is instinctively diplomatic--seeing talking, talking and more talking as far preferable to beginning a war, although he has said he would go to war as a last resort.

On the other hand, I see Hillary Clinton as
instinctively bellicose--believing that war can be a solution. After her vote on the Kyl/Lieberman amendment and her comment that she would not talk to any "adversaries" for at least a year after being elected, I have to wonder if she would attack before talk!

These two candidates have similar domestic agendas, and that is good. But the difference in their view of foreign policy and how America needs to be in the world is vast. I say Obama has the wiser, more mature view. I hope voters can see that clearly!

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» RE: Thebigkate Posted by: Lauren

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Poor, poor Americans.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: oceanwaves99999 on Feb 16, 2008 12:02 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is going to rattle some cages and most likely trigger a lot of denial, and those who don't go into denial over what i am going to write will, predictably, do what the Republican smear henchmen, type A personality, kill the messenger because he/she is telling the truth and we can't handle the truth people DO.
I am trying here to put this whole mess that America is in into perspective, based on the fact that this country, that people are so proud of, AND WILL GO TO WAR TO PRESERVE IT WITH THE BLESSINGS OF 72% of the population back in March 2003, was really stolen in the first place. And you are worried about stolen elections? When a house foundation is rotten and the materials that were used to build it were faulty, what do you expect as far as durability and strength for the house above the "IMMORAL FOUNDATION"? This country was conceived with one of the greatest immoral, unethical, uncivilized and heinous genocides and ethnic cleansings in the history of humankind. And, in case THAT doesn't sink in, the history post mass Indian massacre America has been fraught with terrible incursions and invasions all over the planet. Indeed, your country has been bookended with and by horrific deeds. So, do you think the gods are going to smile upon you now in your last days and go against all the truisms of karma and as you sow so you shall reap? Do you really think you have the right to have things be right for you when all of your people were illegal immigrants with a bible in one hand and a gun in the other, and the children of the children of the children of these pious pirates are also guilty because they share the stolen goods and they know it?

You are aware, I hope, I believe, that in your own cracked judicial system that there is an understanding that if one knowingly buys and sells stolen goods that that person is just as guilty as the original thief? So, Americans, why are you so worried that you are losing your ill-begotten country? It is written, it is a forgone conclusion, it was NOT yours in the first place. All your bandaids will not cure the cancer of a toxic and polluted organism and nature is soon to replace you with an organism that is, hopefully, better suited for life on earth, but I'm not holding my breath there either.

I'm sorry if this hits hard, but the truth in the latter days is and will be spoken, and it all comes out in the wash, otherwise there is no justice in the universe and we might all just as well forget about morality and accountability and be true, pure Darwinists. What say you, oh ye patriots, preachers, intellectuals and well educated guardians of all that is good?

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» RE: Poor, poor Americans. Posted by: mclemens
» RE: OOhch! Too, True Posted by: Andie927
» RE: Poor, poor Americans. Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Poor, poor Americans. Posted by: lenioui
» RE: Poor, poor Americans. NOT DENIAL Posted by: oceanwaves99999
» RE: Poor, poor Americans. Posted by: improperly_sedated
» RE: Poor, poor Americans. Posted by: lenioui
» RE: Poor, poor Americans. Posted by: oceanwaves99999
» RE: Poor, poor Americans. Posted by: foreverhope
» whoops! Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: Poor, poor Americans. Posted by: oceanwaves99999
» RE: Poor, poor Americans. lol, OK! Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: Poor, poor Americans. Posted by: lenioui
» I agree with you LENIOUI. Posted by: oceanwaves99999
» Truly. Posted by: oceanwaves99999
» RE: Poor, poor Americans. Posted by: oceanwaves99999

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Right On Barbara -
[Report this comment]
Posted by: fifthworld on Feb 16, 2008 12:11 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and I was happy to glimpse Krugman's take on this substanceless hysteria as well.

Folks, Obama is not your savior. Should there be a an election this year, and Obama wins, you may initially feel relieved, but you will soon be sorely disappointed. So it goes. Do you really think whatever Obama harbors for "change" will be any different or better than the mess we're in? An end to militarism and corporate dominance? A repeal of the Patriot Acts? Truly affordable health care? Don't bet on it.

Of course, it's more likely we'll have another false-flagger and martial law before November, so perhaps the issue is moot. And who's fault will that be? Your lame-ass Democratic congress, who couldn't break from their ruling class string-pullers and call for impeachment!!!!! Fire the bastards, including Obama and Clinton. Over.

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» RE: your comment resonates with me Posted by: foreverhope

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I HATE REPUKKKIANS!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: AlohaTerry on Feb 16, 2008 12:22 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
SHUT UP YOU FELLOW "PROGRESSIVES"! Hillary or Obama are better than a fukkkkkin repukkke!

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» RE: I HATE REPUKKKIANS! Posted by: Lauren

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He has not won yet
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Posted by: Stellaa on Feb 16, 2008 12:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is he the winner yet?

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Change it or charge it!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: mberg on Feb 16, 2008 1:50 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All the usual beltway and corporate players remain deeply embedded. It is sad to think that the only way we can get a woman or a black person on the slate is to pump them full of corporate steroids. Yes we can have change. But democracy is about reform and action. And any of the candidates promoting this were long ago silenced and squashed. My argument is best supported with the list of advisors for Obama and Clinton.

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON

Former Secretary of State Madeline Albright
She was the main force behind the Iraq sanctions that killed more than 400,000 Iraqi civilians. When asked by a journalist about the result of the sanctions, she replied, “I think it was worth the price.”

General Wesley Clark
He was the one who ran the bombing of Serbia in the former Yugoslavia. He came out and publicly said that he was going after civilian targets, like electrical plants, like the TV station there.

Former UN Ambassador Richard Holbrooke
In the Carter administration he was the one who oversaw the shipment of weapons to the Indonesian military as they were invading (illegally invading) East Timor and killing a third of the population there. He was the one who kept the UN Security Council from enforcing its resolution against that invasion.

Strobe Talbott
He was the one who, during the Clinton administration, oversaw Russia policy, a backing of Yeltsin, which resulted in turning over the national wealth to the oligarchs and a drop in life expectancy in much of Russia of about fifteen years---massive, massive, death.

Former President Bill Clinton
During the Clinton administration, during the Bosnia killing, the US actually flew some of the Afghan Mujahideen, the early al-Qaeda people—the US actually arranged for them to be flown from there to Bosnia to fight on the Muslim/NATO side. Bill Clinton also signed into law NAFTA, which was the beginning of huge numbers of jobs lost in this country. There were more mega-mergers during the Clinton years than the Reagan years. The most infamous of these mergers in the 90’s was EXXON/Mobil.

BARACK OBAMA
Former Secretary of State Zbigniew Brzezinski
He gave an interview to the French press a number of years ago where he boasted about the fact that it was he who created the whole Afghan jihadi movement, the movement that produced Osama bin Laden. And he was asked by the interviewer, “Well, don’t you think this might have had some bad consequences?” And Brzezinski replied, “What’s a few riled up Muslims?”

Anthony Lake
He was the main force behind the US invasion of Haiti in the mid-Clinton years during which they brought back Aristide essentially in political chains, pledged to support a World Bank/IMF overhaul of the economy, which resulted in an increase in malnutrition deaths among Haitians and set the stage for the current ongoing political disaster in Haiti.

General Merrill McPeak
An Air Force man, who not long after the Dili massacre in East Timor in 1991, was seen on TV overseeing the delivery to Indonesia of US fighter planes.

Former Middle East Negotiator Dennis Ross
He advised Clinton and both Bushes and oversaw US policy toward Israel/Palestine. He pushed the principle that the legal rights of the Palestinians, the rights recognized under international law, must be subordinated to the needs of the Israeli government. In other words, he gave a green light policy repeatedly for Israel to expand and do whatever they want in the Occupied Territories.

Sarah Sewall
She heads a human rights center at Harvard and is a former Defense official who wrote the introduction to General Petraeus’s Marine Corps/Army counterinsurgency handbook, the handbook that is now being used worldwide in various killing operation.

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» RE: Change it or charge it! Posted by: bcgirl125

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Obama Economic Adviser's
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Posted by: Andie927 on Feb 16, 2008 2:20 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I read a post, here on Alternet, by louisproyect/Obama's Economic Advisers, wasn't real sure about it, till it was confirmed by an article in 'The Nation' magazine, 'Subprime Obama'.

Austin Goolsbee, Univ. of Chicago, ardent critic of "Sicko"
David Cutler, Harvard, who's written 'high healthcare costs good for the economy'
Jeff Liebman, Harvard, a Clinton adviser, who believes we should provatize Social Security, because it'll be good for Wall St. some of Obama's biggest doners!

Barack came out with an Economic Plan Wednesday, and he's been running for President HOW LONG? Before ya all jump on that Bandwagon, ride that wave, don't you think you really should have some idea, if it's headed off a cliff, or going to crash on the rocks??

60% of ALL voters are Independant/Uncommitted, including me! I worked hard for the Kerry/Edwards ticket. I donated and worked for Edwards in 08'. I can't and won't vote for Hillary or Obama! I'm going GREEN (Party)!

They are BOTH Corporatist/Centrists DLC'ers! The only difference is Barack is RIGHT of Hillary (The Nation, & Krugman)articles by Frazer and Hayes, 'Subprime Obama', look into Obama's economic advisers!!You really want someone who's FOR Coal and Nuclear? Why do you think Gore hasn't endorsed?? Are his 'Private Retirement Accounts' still on his web page?

Hillary is the Devil we know, Barak is the Devil we don't know!! He's never been vetted.

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» RE: Obama Economic Adviser's Posted by: animalleaderisgreat

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Obama's Campaign: Emotional Garbage @ Circus DC
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Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Feb 16, 2008 2:38 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes the man of color has charisma. No, this does not mean he offers real “change” anymore than Denzel Washington or sellout Hillary does.

Obama’s voting record is a corporate crime horror binge with advisors that are David Rockefeller and other status quo cronies. You don’t get more establishment-groomed and packaged than that.

All this republicrat theatre shoveled out of a fully rigged corporate MSM machine is moonshine to impress rubes and suckers. Sadly, that describes most of America. (One of many reasons the U.S. is so despised the world over)

A Rockefeller-BushCo-Clinton corruption front is linked to every fiasco and scandal from 9/11 cover-up to our never ending faux “war on terror” that is no more than organized corporate crime on the public nickel.

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Middle Class American vote to be saved.
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Posted by: using on Feb 16, 2008 2:48 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We truely do vote to "be saved" However, IT HAS NOT WORKED FOR US, since Roosevelt!

Kennedy saved us from Eisenhouer's warning of the Military Industrial Complex -- and marched us into Vetnam and the BAy of Pigs.

The most inspirational leader, the biggest rock star of the 20th century, barring non, was Adolph Hitler.

The saving we need -- is to face the truth of what is happening ot us and work to find a power of our own -- Power that will come from standing together and forcing the government to upgrade its vision of America and the rights of individuals. And no matter which president we get of the lot available to us.....no matter which one...it will be far from good enough to fix the damage. HOwever, a Democrat will more probably slow down the process of downward spirialing and maybe even reverse some of the damage.
And that will give us time to re-group. We need to find the strenght and figure out how to reclaim our ideology and make it possible to rebalance the beams of power -- before it is too late.

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image matters
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Posted by: improperly_sedated on Feb 16, 2008 2:59 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In terms of policy, the differences between these two are trivial. The real differences are in electability, coattails, and inspiration of the public.

On electability, I'm not sure what there is left to say. I have never heard so many liberals declare their refusal to vote for a given Democrat in the general election. Hillary is hated from both the left and the right, and lacks the charisma to rally enough useful idiots to make up the difference. She. Is. Not. Electable. I keep hearing Hillary supporters insisting that she's more electable than Obama, and I'm really curious what drugs they're on.

Coattails pretty much follow from electability, and shouldn't require further explanation here.

Inspiration of the public is the biggie. The impact of a US president on the zeitgeist cannot be overstated. Anyone who rides to the White House on a wave of charisma and popular enthusiasm is guaranteed to kick off a new era, regardless of either policies or competence (and, as I said, we have no more to fear on those points with Obama than with Hillary.) Whatever Obama does or does not do as president, his election will inspire a new generation of American liberals with the belief in their ability to change things. The wall of learned helplessness will, if only for a moment, be breached. He would be the Democratic Reagan.

Hillary promises only to be the latest chapter in the long, sad story of Democratic malaise, standing with dubious pride next to Kerry and Dukakis and, at best, Carter, whose uninspiring persona paved the way for Reagan. The fact that her name is Clinton does not change any of this. Charisma is not a sexually transmitted disease.

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» RE: "Democratic Reagan" Posted by: Andie927
» RE: Honest to God-- Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Honest to God-- Posted by: foreverhope

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Reports of Hillary's Demise re Greatly Exaggerated
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Posted by: dayahka on Feb 16, 2008 3:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reports of Hillary's political death are pretty totally out of whack with reality--with Florida, Michigan and the super-delegates (the undemocratic delegates) she is far, far ahead of Obama. She will be nominated on the first ballot, and then she'll go on to lose horribly to McCain. Obama can pick up the pieces of the party in 2013.

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Obama "change"-a-thon Stage Show
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Posted by: OrwellMan on Feb 16, 2008 3:48 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Obama is different, really different, and that in itself represents "change."

no. it does not.

this cheesy column doesn't either. same old tripe. virtually anybody can be picked up by the corrupt old ruling class in charge of a Washington / media farce and handed a script that says "change".

Obama has zero to do with “change”. by his record and handlers, Obama is a paid shill that will feed you more of the same corporate poison. so will the rest.

period.

the fact citizen McCain or Hillary are more obvious puppets does not make Obama less of a sellout. for now, he’s just a better actor.

wake up. smell the Fascism and take back your nation.

‘cause no one else will do it for you.

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i don't give a shit which one gets the nomination
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Posted by: happyhermit on Feb 16, 2008 4:16 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i just don't want disaffected obamaniacs not to vote for Clinton in the general if she wins (obviously they will say that clinton stole it or whatever.)

yes agreed, obama, different, kenya-kansas, bush bad, clinton nostalgia etc etc...

someone above had the right idea: there might be a severe deflation of obamania if he wins the general election and doesn't change the world right away. what's worse: if anyone actually wants him to change things, they'll probably have to protest him, not fawn all over him.

frankly i wonder if we should just keep our mouths shut about how neither of these candidates are anti-war/corporate free/progressive saviors until one of them is elected. this delusion is driving a mini-revolution that could fully embarrass the republicans and even ruin their party. let's just ride it for now.

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Phun
[Report this comment]
Posted by: DaBear on Feb 16, 2008 6:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fun article... I fully expect much more of the same inane bullshit from the 'Merkaan aristocracy's choices this fall.

Obama as Prex would be fun visually, but I'm sure it'll be more of the same old same old. I can just hear it now, "well, we must be realistic, we really will have to stay in Iraq for now... we'll really just have to keep using oil for now, we'll [meaning just the po' folk] really have to do without homes, etc." until we all puke...

Course if it be Hill, I can see the 100 years war in Iraq just being normal and under McCain I can see mass shootings by the disillusioned daily and a massive rise in neo-nazi and fundie Xtian violence.

I totally agree with Barbara... it's totally about jumpin' out the damned winda while the tower burns to the ground.

Frankly, we ought to keep Kim Stanley Robinson's The Wild Shore out of the rest of the world's hands because if they get a clue and come shut the U.S. of Asshats down for our own good, we'll really be in it then.

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Unstoppable? Hardly
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Posted by: SophieL on Feb 16, 2008 6:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've never thought he was unstoppable. Gaining, for the time being, maybe. But not unstoppable.

His momentum is pure magic. Magical indeed, for one to cast the other candidate as divisive while crooning nothing but divisive rhetoric. ..."they've said this about us this...they've tried to do that to us..." A reality-based headline would be: US vs. THEM preacher wins Uniter not Divider title. Absolute brilliant magic that this is working!

Did the Clinton Camp "misunderestimate" him? Probably, to some extent. Of course, that's an oversimplification of an underlying mood in this country. There's a collectively feeling of dirtiness after seven years of George Bush. The hope is that Barack is the right guy to make us feel wholesome and clean and good about ourselves again. We felt the same kind of dirty about the Nixon era. We elected Jimmy Carter to make us feel wholesome and clean and good about ourselves again. In fact, Jimmy Carter had some of the same exact advisors and handlers that Barack now has.

For those of you who don't remember the Carter years, we had double-digit inflation, long gas lines that led to odd and even gas days, Ph.D's bagging groceries, and we coined a new economic term: stagflation. Don't get me wrong--I love Jimmy Carter and I think he's a great man and even a hero in some ways, but he did not belong being the President of the United States.

So folks, fun as the ride has been, we've been on this train before and it doesn't go anywhere good. Much as this fantasy kicks the butt of the reality we live in, it isn't real and it won't be real fun.

Like a small child, history repeats itself. Maybe, if someone would pay attention to it, it would stop.

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» RE: Unstoppable? Hardly Posted by: AltB
» RE: Do I understand you right? Posted by: Longdream
» HIGH FIVE BEC! Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: Do I understand you right? Posted by: Longdream

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When the bubble bursts
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Posted by: anothername on Feb 16, 2008 7:02 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People see in Obama what they want to see in him. What scares me to the point where I will not vote for him is what will happen, if he is elected, when people start realizing that their vision of what he is does not match up with the reality. That moment of awareness will be the counter depressive to the current wave of manic.

Obama is promising everything to everybody. He is a good writer but his much heralded books are not the Bible. They are textbooks in which Obama states he doesn't have any answers or any new ideas, just more of the same.

I'm trying to figure out what has gotten into David Brooks, though. Brooks had been pushing Obama as this thoughtful, caring senator. On the Chris Matthews show this weekend, he started pointing out holes in the Obama mystique. Brooks said Obama needs to get off college campuses and go to some factories. Brooks also said McCain does not respect Obama because McCain believes Obama went back on his word relative to some negotiations on a matter before the senate.

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» RE: When the bubble bursts Posted by: improperly_sedated
» RE: When the bubble bursts Posted by: anothername

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Just another emotional appeal
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Posted by: sdedalus616 on Feb 16, 2008 8:24 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All flash. No substance. While simultaneously
continuing to point and laugh at Clinton in an
adolescent, mean spirited and frankly stupid manner
with such nuggets as "along with the metronymic
nodding, which sometimes goes on long enough to
suggest a placement within the autism spectrum."

His legislative record? She means State legislature,
of course. Not nearly the caliber of a national
strategist.

I see nothing more here than the continued whining of
children.

Of course we want change. Now let's all grow up and
realize that it's going to take hard damn work, not
just wishful idolatry, to actually accomplish it and
untangle ourselves from the mess which has been
wrought. I, for one, prefer a tried and tested work
horse to a prancing show pony.

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Michelle Obama - Barack's #1 advisor
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Posted by: AltB on Feb 16, 2008 10:49 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As Michelle Obama is known to say, Barack is a very smart and talented man, but in the end he's just a man.

We all are prone to deify our elected leaders, or at least the office of the Presidency. But in the end, the office holder is simply a human just like the rest of us.

Perfect? No, are any us? Perfectly human? Yes. Is he trying to tell the truth and do the right thing? I feel that he is.

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Cute Lil Bunny
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Posted by: HeKnew on Feb 17, 2008 12:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Government of the people, by the people and for the people.

Direct Democracy

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metoo
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Posted by: metoo on Feb 17, 2008 4:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While I read this article and commentary I'm stuck asking myself, what do I expect?
Anyone that gets a far as Obama… had to be lifted into position, in my estimation, so who's going to win and loose with an Obama candidacy?

The Republicans obviously, but who. Do I expect a candidate to sever relationships with energy because they've been so exploitive? Will he spank the Military for being a puppet on Bushco's string? Will he charge the Rich for the plight of the poor? Will he convince the rising tide of nations that intend to smother us, to stand down, and if so how, and if so why would they?

Does Obama pose more of a threat to the rising tide of nations than the fanatical Bushcos? Will an Obama Presidency be a time of penance for the deeds we have done?

Quite frankly I don't see America getting on her knees to repent, and I don't see the world settling for anything less than a full reversal of aggression and a full explanation of how it all came about.

Does any new president write Bush off as an anomaly without explaining its history?

If we are to move on, change, hope to change, I think we will need to disclose to the world what happened and how we intend to put in place devices, firewalls if you will, so that it never happens again.

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I am commenting on the
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Stellaa on Feb 17, 2008 7:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
candidate, not spouses. Get a grip.

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End 2 Party Sys. Ind. majority
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Posted by: Andie927 on Feb 17, 2008 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
60% of voter's are Independent, Let's start demanding a "None of the Above" on the ticket! More then 50%, we start over!!

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WARNING !!! WARNING !!! THE REAL GOP BOMB THAT WILL DESTROY OBAMA'S PRESIDENTIAL RUN !!!!
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Posted by: maxpayne on Feb 17, 2008 12:21 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No, He Can’t Because Yes, They Will

Like Hillary, Obama's just as controversial and the GOP WILL SWIFTBOAT HIM in the worst way that John Kerry and even Dukakis will look like they got mildly attacked. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED !

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Legislative records: Obama & Clinton
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Posted by: AltB on Feb 17, 2008 12:43 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was going to post this following up on buried comments I made yesterday where I mention comparison lists on the Internet of Clinton's and Obama's legislative experience.

Here are some sources (gov/press/blog):

Guardian-UK - LINK

Obsidian Wings - LINK

Library of Congress/Thomas Site (down as of this posting) - LINK

VQTE: Vote Quality/Quality Vote? - LINK

Obama
During the first eight years of his elected service he sponsored over 820 bills. He introduced:
233 regarding healthcare reform,
125 on poverty and public assistance,
112 crime fighting bills,
97 economic bills,
60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills,
21 ethics reform bills,
15 gun control,
6 veterans affairs and many others.
His first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427. These included:
- the Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 (became law),
- The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act, (became law),
- The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, passed the Senate,
- The 2007 Government Ethics Bill, (became law),
- The Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, (In committee)

Clinton
Senator Clinton, who has served only one full term (6yrs.), and another year campaigning, has managed to author and pass into law, (20) twenty pieces of legislation.
1. Establish the Kate Mullany National Historic Site.
2. Support the goals and ideals of Better Hearing and Speech Month.
3. Recognize the Ellis Island Medal of Hon
4. Name courthouse after Thurgood Marshall.
5. Name courthouse after James L. Watson.
6. Name post office after Jonn A. O'Shea.
7. Designate Aug. 7, 2003, as National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
8. Support the goals and ideals of National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
9. Honor the life and legacy of Alexander Hamilton on the bicentennial of his death.
10. Congratulate the Syracuse Univ. Orange Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.
11. Congratulate the Le Moyne College Dolphins Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.
12. Establish the 225th Anniversary of the American Revolution Commemorative Program.
13. Name post office after Sergeant Riayan A. Tejeda.
14. Honor Shirley Chisholm for her service to the nation and express condolences on her death.
15. Honor John J. Downing, Brian Fahey, and Harry Ford, firefighters who lost their lives on duty.
Only five of Clinton's bills are more substantive:
16. Extend period of unemployment assistance to victims of 9/11.
17. Pay for city projects in response to 9/11
18. Assist land mine victims in other countries.
19. Assist family caregivers in accessing affordable respite care.
20. Designate part of the National Forest System in Puerto Rico as protected in the wilderness preservation system.
NOTE: Does not include Clinton's documents from her days in the Whitehouse. Records have been witheld.

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"We are the change we've been waiting for"
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Posted by: hurricane hugo on Feb 17, 2008 1:01 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...means get off your fucking asses and do something!
If Obama is elected, he'll succeed or fail to the extent that you're willing to do so. The. End.

jdfu!

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Obama, Sure Some Faults, But He is A Good Start
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Posted by: sofla100 on Feb 17, 2008 4:21 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is a good article dealing with Obama's state legislative record. Particularly, getting a good law passed to protect rights of the accused (link broken up because Alternet is funky on posting any "word" in exess of 60 characters)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-

dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010303303.html

I think, on balance, Obama does deserve the support of the Left/Progressive Wing that we all mostly represent. He has a few problems, such as taking a lot of money from the corporate/Wall Street honchos, but really no more than any of them in a corrupt system still desperately in need of campaign finance reform. He's also biased, like most all of them, in favor of Israel, but seems more restrained then many of the others on endlessly building up the military and going to war. So finally, Obama is a good start for us to get moving forward in a progressive manner. So, I have moved past crying over Edwards/Kucinich, and on to the politics of the pragmatic. Bottom line, our nation and the world cannot take 4-8 years of another Republican SOB. Literally, millions of lives are at stake on who America puts into power. We have a responsibility to all the peoples of the World that we cannot ignore. So, I see working for and helping Obama to get elected as a good and progressive thing, and certainly worthy of my time and effort.

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Why is discriminatory language allowed in articles?
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Posted by: EKSwitaj on Feb 17, 2008 9:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the metronymic nodding, which sometimes goes on long enough to suggest a placement within the autism spectrum

Can progressives please stop using autistic as insult?

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And what is he gonna do
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Posted by: Stellaa on Feb 17, 2008 10:47 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look inspiring? New age gimics courtesy of Oprah's Course in Miracles. The miracle will happen if we believe....right.

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Thank you all, pro and con.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: oceanwaves99999 on Feb 18, 2008 8:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm the writer of Poor, poor America. I do appreciate all your takes and views here on Alternet. I feel so lucky to be able to voice my opinions, however they may be taken. Hang in there all and may we somehow solve the riddle of endless occupations, invasions, stealing land and all that goes with it.

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Uh-uh.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Longdream on Feb 18, 2008 9:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You seem to be arguing quite vehemently against Obama, using easily-refuted, well-trammelled lies. That goes far beyond "devil's advocate" in my book.

If you intend only to make people think, then do it by reasoning, not by lying.

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Uh-oh
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Posted by: Longdream on Feb 18, 2008 11:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The above wasn't for you, Ocean, or for the general population--it was a reply to someone up the line, but didn't come out that way.

Sorry.

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» RE: Uh-oh Posted by: oceanwaves99999

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Emotional Rescue
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Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Feb 18, 2008 4:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, Americans DO want a drastic and immediate change from the last seven disastrous years of Bush.
The signs say trouble: record foreclosures, ever-mounting debt, the high cost of education, unemployment, disappearing health benefits, school shootings, distant wars, etc. and whom are we to call to get us out of this malaise?
When things get really depressing, we look to someone or something to rescue us from our plight. Let's hope Obama be that someone to give us a new start.
He may or may not be that white knight in shining armor; but we haven't rallied behind anyone like him since-well-does anyone have any names to drop?

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» RE: motional Rescue Posted by: oceanwaves99999
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» Living up to the hype Posted by: foreverhope

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Liberal Renaissance, yes, but...
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Posted by: pfraterdeus on Feb 19, 2008 9:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a young Cubs fan in 1969, I learned the hard way about leaning too hard into ones hopes and wishes.

Progressives are notoriously hard to placate, and even if Obama were to gain the White House, his time will be spent picking the incredible burden of ten thousand nits from the left along with the typical constant barrage of bullshit from the right.

Let's not burden our good fellow human with the curse of great expectations, but agree to first consider what we... I ... am willing to do to lighten his load when the time comes for leadership. When each and every citizen accepts the responsibility to lead by example and to help those in need, and to share the gifts of mind and nature for the greater good, we will deserve the boon of the finest leader the generation has to offer.

My darkest fear is that Obama will be too good for the country, the promise he offers becomes a sacrificial offering to the demons of selfishness.

On the flip side of all the optimism, I fear deeply for him and his family, including his Kenyan grandmother...

Quantum Magic and Love Quarks Blog at fraterdeus.com

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Why all the gloomy pessimism?
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Posted by: AmyB on Feb 19, 2008 4:01 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Honestly, I always thought I was a pessimist but I simply can't follow the logic that says because Obama is campaigning with an optimistic message he must be some kind of a phony.

Listen again to Obama's message. He's not saying that he's going to get us out of here single handedly. He's telling us that WE are all in this together and we are going to all pull together (Harambee!) to get ourselves out of this mess.

Isn't that exactly what we wanted to hear from GWB after 9/11 ?(and instead he told us to go home and go shopping.)

Obama is exactly as capable as any of the other two U.S. Senators running for president (which is to say, the governor of pretty much any largish state would probably have more practical experience than any of them). However, his campaign is based on a 50 state strategy that says "even you guys in flyover states are part of this"

All I can say, if he runs the country like he's running his campaign he'll be a great president.

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» RE: Yes, Amy! Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Yes, Amy! Posted by: oceanwaves99999

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The obvious next question is...
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Posted by: boundjymind on Feb 21, 2008 5:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The obvious next question is, once safely out, then where?

My friends see many his blog posts on a std personals site named Herpesmates.com

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Obama’s extreme liberalism will not work in the real world
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Posted by: liz2007 on Feb 21, 2008 7:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While Bush’s administration’s policy of unilaterism and neoconservatism represents one extreme and failed, Obama’s surrenderism represents another extreme on the liberal left, and is destined to fail as well. Those extreme well-to-do liberals who have never had to deal with difficulties faced many in the world dream of solving all problems by belief and rhetoric and wishful thinking. Obama’s extreme surrenderism, if applied, will undoubtedly expedite the slipping of American standing in the world. Throughout history, nothing has been achieved by pure good will. Oscillating from one extreme to another is not a good choice for America. America must select leaders who have Franklin D. Roosevelt’s sophistication. Obama’s willingness to sit down with any leader will not help American standing; it will undoubtedly lower it, as human history has invariably shown; the most recent being Carter’s spectacular failure in Middle East.

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You had me at "Empire" ---- except you never said the word!!
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Posted by: amacd on Feb 25, 2008 2:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Barbara Ehrenreich's conclusion almost hits it on the head when she says, "That's what "change" means right now: Get us out of here!"

But this only leads in circularity to the further question, "If we define 'change' as getting out of here, then what's "here'?"

Of course, the real answer to both of these vague and still unanswered questions is...

'Change' means changing from our current weak-kneed acceptance, to a change toward actually 'confronting Empire'.

And 'get us out of here' means to get us out of Empire (and back to democracy).

"Change" really means confronting and overcoming the global corporatist Empire, which is hiding behind the facade of "Vichy American" faux-government, and which is the only singular cause of all that is wrong with our country.

While "getting out of "here'" really means getting out of the belly of the Empire, in which we are caught, and of which no candidate or media will even whisper the name--Empire!

So Barbara, my suggestion to the supposedly "Unstoppable Obama" and to the American people is what it has always been:

"The very most important question that the American people should be asking of any candidate for President in '08 is not, "Where do you stand on the war?" but, "Where do you stand on the Empire that has taken over our country--an Empire of which the war in Iraq, and increasing domestic tyranny, are only its biggest and most visible crimes--so far?"

As far as I know the hopeful, inspiring and yet to be proven "unstoppable" Obama has never uttered the word "Empire," and has never in any rationally understandable way articulated that the global corporatist Empire hiding behind the facade of our now "Vichy" government is actually the seminal cause of all the "sorrows of Empire," pain and frustrations that make otherwise intelligent people like Ehrenreich blurt out, "Change" means right now: Get us out of here!"

Unless, and until, Obama drives a stake in the ground of rationally defined commitment and does something like define his "hope" and "change" and message of "yes, we can" as "Yes, we can overcome this corporatist Empire, which is the real and identified source of all our various sorrows and which in the real world "we can" overcome," then Obama will remain only a pleasant song and video of what "change" might promise, and he will remain for people like me, in the "reality-based world" only a hopeful allusion to a "faith-based" video that may only be implying that "Yes, we can" overcome Empire.

If Obama wants to become real for me, he needs to sing the lyrics a bit more clearly--"Yes, we can" ---- overcome Empire.

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Someone to lead us out of the desert?
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Posted by: nochicagoboys on Feb 16, 2008 12:42 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ms. Ehrenreich, you may be on to something. Is Senator Obama the modern day equivalent of Moses who supporters are hoping will lead them out of the desert. Let's hope, unlike Moses, that it doesn't take forty years.

The obvious next question is, once safely out, then where?

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» Chill!!! Posted by: sanddollar
» RE: Chill!!! Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Chill!!! Posted by: lenioui
» RE: Chill!!! Posted by: sanddollar
» RE: Chill!!! Posted by: lenioui
» RE: Chill!!! Posted by: sanddollar
» RE: Chill!!! Posted by: lenioui
» RE: Chill!!! Posted by: sanddollar
» RE: Chill!!! Posted by: lenioui
» RE: Chill!!! Posted by: sanddollar
» RE: Chill!!! Posted by: Longdream
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» RE: Chill!!! Posted by: sanddollar
» Maybe it must take decades. Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» RE: Maybe it must take decades. Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Maybe it must take decades. Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Maybe it must take decades. Posted by: no1kstate

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Don't get hopes up TOO high, just yet
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Posted by: MobileSucks on Feb 16, 2008 2:51 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What fun it is reading Barbara Ehrenreich.And what an agreeable commentator she is.

(Having said that) I don't find Obama unstoppable quite yet. I am just beginning to think that he might get the nomination. I do hope so. I've predicted Clinton would be it and then there is this super delegate business which to me is just disgusting, but just maybe the better and obviously more popular candidate will win. It ain't over yet. Nobody out there relax. The Clintons never rest. They're relentless.

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Old Lady Pleased by Thoughtful Comments
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Posted by: naomi dagen bloom on Feb 16, 2008 4:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
invigorating and reassuring to read the few comments that come before mine. i'd almost stopped reading alternet due to the long-winded anger and vicious rhetoric of many commenters.

the art of possibility is what obama brings to the contest. yes, his election might be the most important statement by americans about our wish to move beyond racial divide that the 19th century civil war did not resolve.

as a feminist, i know that it will be harder for a woman to be accepted as a leader in this country. perhaps we can start with a woman vice president--not necessarily hillary clinton.

naomi, elderblogging at http://www.alittleredhen.com

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» RE: Old Lady Pleased by Thoughtful Comments Posted by: Kitty Lady Oregon
» Just a bizarre coincidence? Posted by: sanddollar

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Rebecca from OHIO
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Posted by: Bec59 on Feb 16, 2008 4:45 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have read Ms Ehrenreich's books about going "undercover" to see what it is to be in low-paying work as a Home Health Aid (one of the few growing career choices = $7 per hr. changing old peoples' diapers)or as a middle-manager pushed out then invited by saavy marketers to "remake" themselves only to lose thousands of dollars and still not finding work--good, fast reading that teaches you alot!

I know that the American people will choose either Hillary or Obama--(or Mccain), whoever gets the job, I feel very sorry for. So much damage has been done.

I do believe either Clinton or Obama will put their hearts into the job---so let us get behind the one who gets the nomination and get on with the hard work ahead!

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

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» RE: ebecca from OHIO Posted by: Bec59

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"may you live in exciting times" is a curse
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Posted by: Suzon on Feb 16, 2008 5:10 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some people seem to believe that the American people have deserved to be cursed in exactly this way, but why? This article suggests one possible reason: a willingness to feel and believe in elevated rhetoric.

This is nothing new in American history. Bronson Alcott (father of the novelist Louisa May Alcott) was a destitute peddlar who stopped selling sundry goods door to door and transformed himself into a popular theorist and lecturer. He drew large crowds and mesmerised them with his speeches, yet when his listeners tried to recall the gist of what he said they failed.

An even more charismatic figure in 19th century America was the circus clown Dan Rice. Rice had an urge to be all things to all people and he succeeded to an amazing degree, temporarily bridging the gap between roguery and respectability (George W, anyone?). David Carlyon's excellent biography takes Rice at breakneck speed from pig presenter to serious presidential candidate. He became one of the most famous men in America, probably seen by more Americans than anyone else at the time. (It ended in tears, by the way.)

One could say that presentation isn't everything, it's the only thing in American political life.

The question that should be asked is not "Does Obama make us feel good?" but "How did we become so gullible?"

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» Gullible People Posted by: MobileSucks
» RE: Absolutely right. Posted by: Longdream
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» RE: You've got to be kidding. Posted by: Longdream
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» RE: di·plo·ma·cy Posted by: Longdream
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» RE: Thank you for this. Posted by: Longdream
» Somewhat wrong about AmeriCorps Posted by: jackl2400

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Oh Oh, the Iraqis wanted to change too
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Posted by: agathena on Feb 16, 2008 5:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and look what they got. Diaspora of 5 million refugees, homelessness, massive pollution of the landscape, bombing of villages and cities, 100,000 - 600,000 civilians killed, looting of their museums...

What the USA needs is recovery and reclamation from the devastating Bush era. I hope whoever wins is strong and true and surrounds himself/herself with a brain trust to initiate that recovery.

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Change and Hope
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Posted by: ot on Feb 16, 2008 6:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Recent presidential campaigns have revealed the jaw-dropping stupidity of the American people.

Have any of them, not to mention their liberal pundit mouthpieces, even given a moments thought to how vacuous buzzwords like "change" and "hope" are to be implemented?

I am in the software industry and can only imagine the reaction of customers if we proposed implementing their requirements in terms of "change" and "hope". Umh... yes, we're going to 'change' some things and 'hope' that it will work.

So how in the world can such terminology be taken seriously in the infinitely more complex domain of governing a country not to mention the influence it has over the rest of the world?

Yes, Obama has economic and health care plans. But how many Americans even know what they are much less analyzed in any detail if they are viable given how the system really works. Probably not many, and it's because the same Americans who obediently consume whatever the messages on radio and TV tell them to can't get past the buzzwords.

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» RE: Change and Hope Posted by: Bec59
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Beatlemania, Indeed!
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Posted by: Urstrly on Feb 16, 2008 6:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I loved Ehrenreich's line about Clinton promoting choral singing to Obama's Beatlemania. Let's not forget that the Beatles were brilliant musicians as well as much-promoted pop stars. Every time Clinton complains about Obama's rhetoric, you know she's kicking herself for listening to the likes of Paul Begala and Mark Penn and Howard Wolfson and James Carville (do I see a trend here?) Should have listened to Peter, Paul and Mary or Dylan at least: the answer is blowing in the wind.

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CHANGE, BUT IT WON'T BE EASY
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Feb 16, 2008 8:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's what Obama says. We will be expected to "do something". On that subject he's vague.We had the greatest country in the world because we had the greatest people in the world.So we can't continue the self absorbed lifestyle with everyone alienated and not wanting to get their hands dirty. Dumbing down is no excuse. We just found out what happens when people don't pay attention. This is not a 'one man/woman' operaton. It's everybody. ANNA

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rubart
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Posted by: art614 on Feb 16, 2008 8:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Barbara's argument is so on-target. I don't think Obama would have had nearly the success he's having otherwise. Not because he wouldn't be a damned good president--chances are excellent that he would be--but because he just doesn't show enough experience yet. Well, we've had enough experience, and look where we are. As Barbara says so perfectly, You don't ask what the weather is before jumping out of a burning building. And one of the joys of my life will be all those Bush supporters who hate the thought of a "black" president (though I prefer to call Obama "multi-racial"), knowing full well--if they're conscious enough--that Bush was exactly the burning building that put Obama in the White House.

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» RE: Experience Posted by: foreverhope

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Amen! There's no going back now...
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Posted by: deepseas on Feb 16, 2008 8:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Barbara, where've you been all my life? You express many of my thoughts...and so well.

There's no going back, even if Obama does not win - although I think he has a good chance. While the task to clean up the Bush mess before him is daunting, he will get all the help he needs.

The enthusiasm for Obama has carried over to the House and Senate. Many legislators will give him their best input.

Just look at his website. Each person gets a blog of their own, with the opportunity to join any of the various organizations within his site. Each person has input to Obama through an organized pipeline of communication - one of his themes.

Taking advantage of technology and getting input from everyone, Obama has the ability to get the best, most progressive ideas for consideration. As an instructor, I have used this method on a tiny scale...and it works!

When people are included in a process - regardless of their status - they do amazing things and gladly give of themselves.

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Change?
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Posted by: Stellaa on Feb 16, 2008 9:20 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gee, looks like just any other corporatist, misogynist with a better speech writer and a dabble of DNA change. Sorry, I do not want an idol for president. I want someone who can do the work.

While he sits in office preserving his manufactured persona of change, all his apologists will be attacking us non-believers telling us how it's good for us cause two Republicans on C-span (probably plants) said he would vote for him.

Sorry, folks, I am still angry and not willing to sell out to shallow empty vessel of contrived unity and hope. This is serious and I am not handing over the keys to the country to Peter Pan and the "elder white men" who thought he is deemed ready to take the torch of Camelot.

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» RE: Change? ***STELLAA** Posted by: maribelle
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» RE: Change? ***STELLAA** Posted by: lenioui
» RE:Huh? Posted by: Longdream
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» RE: Huh? Posted by: Longdream

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OBAMA = win now, lose later?
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Posted by: Jersey Devil on Feb 16, 2008 9:39 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama may win the race but will loose the war once the Republican shadow campaigns focus their racist hate rumor machine on him. This race will degenerate to race and experience which both cast Obama as the loser. Hillary's supporters have already voted against Obama and will likely do the same again in November if given the opportunity. So the blazing hot Obama campaign will flame out and deliver to the Democratic Party it's third consecutive Presidential defeat. The winning Democratic ticket is Clinton / Obama for two terms and then Obama/ ??? for two more terms. 16 years of Democratic Presidency or 8 more years of Republican Raping the non-rich.

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» RE: How about just win? Posted by: Longdream

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Hillary Far From Royalty
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Posted by: Tishijo on Feb 16, 2008 10:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Should she transform herself, should she reconfigure? Yeesh! Obama leads because he is genuine PERIOD. The only way that Clinton will get the nomination is if Americans believe the smears, and false allegations she has made against Obama. I believe America wants truth and integrity in our President and will continue to vote accordingly. The former First Lady may think she is royalty and entitled but her campaign strategy to lie against her opponent puts her in a much lower place.

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Genuine
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Posted by: Stellaa on Feb 16, 2008 10:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
politician. Genuine misogynist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qNpeGPdhEw&eurl

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» balony Posted by: Declan
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Sorcerer99
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Posted by: sorcerer99 on Feb 16, 2008 10:22 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hate to be the one to wake you up from your wet dream, but if the Democrats do indeed nominate Omama, I smell another Mondale '84 wreck. This country will not elect a minority (especially one with a thin resume) to its highest office.

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» This Country Already Did Posted by: LeaderofMen
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» RE: What I smell. Posted by: Longdream

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Thebigkate
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Posted by: Thebigkate on Feb 16, 2008 11:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excellent article! I always enjoy your articulate point of view! However, one thing you neglected to mention about Obama is his anti-war stance. I believe he is instinctively diplomatic--seeing talking, talking and more talking as far preferable to beginning a war, although he has said he would go to war as a last resort.

On the other hand, I see Hillary Clinton as
instinctively bellicose--believing that war can be a solution. After her vote on the Kyl/Lieberman amendment and her comment that she would not talk to any "adversaries" for at least a year after being elected, I have to wonder if she would attack before talk!

These two candidates have similar domestic agendas, and that is good. But the difference in their view of foreign policy and how America needs to be in the world is vast. I say Obama has the wiser, more mature view. I hope voters can see that clearly!

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» RE: Thebigkate Posted by: Lauren

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Poor, poor Americans.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: oceanwaves99999 on Feb 16, 2008 12:02 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is going to rattle some cages and most likely trigger a lot of denial, and those who don't go into denial over what i am going to write will, predictably, do what the Republican smear henchmen, type A personality, kill the messenger because he/she is telling the truth and we can't handle the truth people DO.
I am trying here to put this whole mess that America is in into perspective, based on the fact that this country, that people are so proud of, AND WILL GO TO WAR TO PRESERVE IT WITH THE BLESSINGS OF 72% of the population back in March 2003, was really stolen in the first place. And you are worried about stolen elections? When a house foundation is rotten and the materials that were used to build it were faulty, what do you expect as far as durability and strength for the house above the "IMMORAL FOUNDATION"? This country was conceived with one of the greatest immoral, unethical, uncivilized and heinous genocides and ethnic cleansings in the history of humankind. And, in case THAT doesn't sink in, the history post mass Indian massacre America has been fraught with terrible incursions and invasions all over the planet. Indeed, your country has been bookended with and by horrific deeds. So, do you think the gods are going to smile upon you now in your last days and go against all the truisms of karma and as you sow so you shall reap? Do you really think you have the right to have things be right for you when all of your people were illegal immigrants with a bible in one hand and a gun in the other, and the children of the children of the children of these pious pirates are also guilty because they share the stolen goods and they know it?

You are aware, I hope, I believe, that in your own cracked judicial system that there is an understanding that if one knowingly buys and sells stolen goods that that person is just as guilty as the original thief? So, Americans, why are you so worried that you are losing your ill-begotten country? It is written, it is a forgone conclusion, it was NOT yours in the first place. All your bandaids will not cure the cancer of a toxic and polluted organism and nature is soon to replace you with an organism that is, hopefully, better suited for life on earth, but I'm not holding my breath there either.

I'm sorry if this hits hard, but the truth in the latter days is and will be spoken, and it all comes out in the wash, otherwise there is no justice in the universe and we might all just as well forget about morality and accountability and be true, pure Darwinists. What say you, oh ye patriots, preachers, intellectuals and well educated guardians of all that is good?

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» RE: Poor, poor Americans. Posted by: mclemens
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» Truly. Posted by: oceanwaves99999
» RE: Poor, poor Americans. Posted by: oceanwaves99999

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Right On Barbara -
[Report this comment]
Posted by: fifthworld on Feb 16, 2008 12:11 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and I was happy to glimpse Krugman's take on this substanceless hysteria as well.

Folks, Obama is not your savior. Should there be a an election this year, and Obama wins, you may initially feel relieved, but you will soon be sorely disappointed. So it goes. Do you really think whatever Obama harbors for "change" will be any different or better than the mess we're in? An end to militarism and corporate dominance? A repeal of the Patriot Acts? Truly affordable health care? Don't bet on it.

Of course, it's more likely we'll have another false-flagger and martial law before November, so perhaps the issue is moot. And who's fault will that be? Your lame-ass Democratic congress, who couldn't break from their ruling class string-pullers and call for impeachment!!!!! Fire the bastards, including Obama and Clinton. Over.

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» RE: your comment resonates with me Posted by: foreverhope

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I HATE REPUKKKIANS!
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Posted by: AlohaTerry on Feb 16, 2008 12:22 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
SHUT UP YOU FELLOW "PROGRESSIVES"! Hillary or Obama are better than a fukkkkkin repukkke!

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» RE: I HATE REPUKKKIANS! Posted by: Lauren

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He has not won yet
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Posted by: Stellaa on Feb 16, 2008 12:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is he the winner yet?

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Change it or charge it!
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Posted by: mberg on Feb 16, 2008 1:50 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All the usual beltway and corporate players remain deeply embedded. It is sad to think that the only way we can get a woman or a black person on the slate is to pump them full of corporate steroids. Yes we can have change. But democracy is about reform and action. And any of the candidates promoting this were long ago silenced and squashed. My argument is best supported with the list of advisors for Obama and Clinton.

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON

Former Secretary of State Madeline Albright
She was the main force behind the Iraq sanctions that killed more than 400,000 Iraqi civilians. When asked by a journalist about the result of the sanctions, she replied, “I think it was worth the price.”

General Wesley Clark
He was the one who ran the bombing of Serbia in the former Yugoslavia. He came out and publicly said that he was going after civilian targets, like electrical plants, like the TV station there.

Former UN Ambassador Richard Holbrooke
In the Carter administration he was the one who oversaw the shipment of weapons to the Indonesian military as they were invading (illegally invading) East Timor and killing a third of the population there. He was the one who kept the UN Security Council from enforcing its resolution against that invasion.

Strobe Talbott
He was the one who, during the Clinton administration, oversaw Russia policy, a backing of Yeltsin, which resulted in turning over the national wealth to the oligarchs and a drop in life expectancy in much of Russia of about fifteen years---massive, massive, death.

Former President Bill Clinton
During the Clinton administration, during the Bosnia killing, the US actually flew some of the Afghan Mujahideen, the early al-Qaeda people—the US actually arranged for them to be flown from there to Bosnia to fight on the Muslim/NATO side. Bill Clinton also signed into law NAFTA, which was the beginning of huge numbers of jobs lost in this country. There were more mega-mergers during the Clinton years than the Reagan years. The most infamous of these mergers in the 90’s was EXXON/Mobil.

BARACK OBAMA
Former Secretary of State Zbigniew Brzezinski
He gave an interview to the French press a number of years ago where he boasted about the fact that it was he who created the whole Afghan jihadi movement, the movement that produced Osama bin Laden. And he was asked by the interviewer, “Well, don’t you think this might have had some bad consequences?” And Brzezinski replied, “What’s a few riled up Muslims?”

Anthony Lake
He was the main force behind the US invasion of Haiti in the mid-Clinton years during which they brought back Aristide essentially in political chains, pledged to support a World Bank/IMF overhaul of the economy, which resulted in an increase in malnutrition deaths among Haitians and set the stage for the current ongoing political disaster in Haiti.

General Merrill McPeak
An Air Force man, who not long after the Dili massacre in East Timor in 1991, was seen on TV overseeing the delivery to Indonesia of US fighter planes.

Former Middle East Negotiator Dennis Ross
He advised Clinton and both Bushes and oversaw US policy toward Israel/Palestine. He pushed the principle that the legal rights of the Palestinians, the rights recognized under international law, must be subordinated to the needs of the Israeli government. In other words, he gave a green light policy repeatedly for Israel to expand and do whatever they want in the Occupied Territories.

Sarah Sewall
She heads a human rights center at Harvard and is a former Defense official who wrote the introduction to General Petraeus’s Marine Corps/Army counterinsurgency handbook, the handbook that is now being used worldwide in various killing operation.

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» RE: Change it or charge it! Posted by: bcgirl125

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Obama Economic Adviser's
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Posted by: Andie927 on Feb 16, 2008 2:20 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I read a post, here on Alternet, by louisproyect/Obama's Economic Advisers, wasn't real sure about it, till it was confirmed by an article in 'The Nation' magazine, 'Subprime Obama'.

Austin Goolsbee, Univ. of Chicago, ardent critic of "Sicko"
David Cutler, Harvard, who's written 'high healthcare costs good for the economy'
Jeff Liebman, Harvard, a Clinton adviser, who believes we should provatize Social Security, because it'll be good for Wall St. some of Obama's biggest doners!

Barack came out with an Economic Plan Wednesday, and he's been running for President HOW LONG? Before ya all jump on that Bandwagon, ride that wave, don't you think you really should have some idea, if it's headed off a cliff, or going to crash on the rocks??

60% of ALL voters are Independant/Uncommitted, including me! I worked hard for the Kerry/Edwards ticket. I donated and worked for Edwards in 08'. I can't and won't vote for Hillary or Obama! I'm going GREEN (Party)!

They are BOTH Corporatist/Centrists DLC'ers! The only difference is Barack is RIGHT of Hillary (The Nation, & Krugman)articles by Frazer and Hayes, 'Subprime Obama', look into Obama's economic advisers!!You really want someone who's FOR Coal and Nuclear? Why do you think Gore hasn't endorsed?? Are his 'Private Retirement Accounts' still on his web page?

Hillary is the Devil we know, Barak is the Devil we don't know!! He's never been vetted.

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» RE: Obama Economic Adviser's Posted by: animalleaderisgreat

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Obama's Campaign: Emotional Garbage @ Circus DC
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Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Feb 16, 2008 2:38 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes the man of color has charisma. No, this does not mean he offers real “change” anymore than Denzel Washington or sellout Hillary does.

Obama’s voting record is a corporate crime horror binge with advisors that are David Rockefeller and other status quo cronies. You don’t get more establishment-groomed and packaged than that.

All this republicrat theatre shoveled out of a fully rigged corporate MSM machine is moonshine to impress rubes and suckers. Sadly, that describes most of America. (One of many reasons the U.S. is so despised the world over)

A Rockefeller-BushCo-Clinton corruption front is linked to every fiasco and scandal from 9/11 cover-up to our never ending faux “war on terror” that is no more than organized corporate crime on the public nickel.

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Middle Class American vote to be saved.
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Posted by: using on Feb 16, 2008 2:48 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We truely do vote to "be saved" However, IT HAS NOT WORKED FOR US, since Roosevelt!

Kennedy saved us from Eisenhouer's warning of the Military Industrial Complex -- and marched us into Vetnam and the BAy of Pigs.

The most inspirational leader, the biggest rock star of the 20th century, barring non, was Adolph Hitler.

The saving we need -- is to face the truth of what is happening ot us and work to find a power of our own -- Power that will come from standing together and forcing the government to upgrade its vision of America and the rights of individuals. And no matter which president we get of the lot available to us.....no matter which one...it will be far from good enough to fix the damage. HOwever, a Democrat will more probably slow down the process of downward spirialing and maybe even reverse some of the damage.
And that will give us time to re-group. We need to find the strenght and figure out how to reclaim our ideology and make it possible to rebalance the beams of power -- before it is too late.

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image matters
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Posted by: improperly_sedated on Feb 16, 2008 2:59 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In terms of policy, the differences between these two are trivial. The real differences are in electability, coattails, and inspiration of the public.

On electability, I'm not sure what there is left to say. I have never heard so many liberals declare their refusal to vote for a given Democrat in the general election. Hillary is hated from both the left and the right, and lacks the charisma to rally enough useful idiots to make up the difference. She. Is. Not. Electable. I keep hearing Hillary supporters insisting that she's more electable than Obama, and I'm really curious what drugs they're on.

Coattails pretty much follow from electability, and shouldn't require further explanation here.

Inspiration of the public is the biggie. The impact of a US president on the zeitgeist cannot be overstated. Anyone who rides to the White House on a wave of charisma and popular enthusiasm is guaranteed to kick off a new era, regardless of either policies or competence (and, as I said, we have no more to fear on those points with Obama than with Hillary.) Whatever Obama does or does not do as president, his election will inspire a new generation of American liberals with the belief in their ability to change things. The wall of learned helplessness will, if only for a moment, be breached. He would be the Democratic Reagan.

Hillary promises only to be the latest chapter in the long, sad story of Democratic malaise, standing with dubious pride next to Kerry and Dukakis and, at best, Carter, whose uninspiring persona paved the way for Reagan. The fact that her name is Clinton does not change any of this. Charisma is not a sexually transmitted disease.

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» RE: "Democratic Reagan" Posted by: Andie927
» RE: Honest to God-- Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Honest to God-- Posted by: foreverhope

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Reports of Hillary's Demise re Greatly Exaggerated
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Posted by: dayahka on Feb 16, 2008 3:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reports of Hillary's political death are pretty totally out of whack with reality--with Florida, Michigan and the super-delegates (the undemocratic delegates) she is far, far ahead of Obama. She will be nominated on the first ballot, and then she'll go on to lose horribly to McCain. Obama can pick up the pieces of the party in 2013.

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Obama "change"-a-thon Stage Show
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Posted by: OrwellMan on Feb 16, 2008 3:48 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Obama is different, really different, and that in itself represents "change."

no. it does not.

this cheesy column doesn't either. same old tripe. virtually anybody can be picked up by the corrupt old ruling class in charge of a Washington / media farce and handed a script that says "change".

Obama has zero to do with “change”. by his record and handlers, Obama is a paid shill that will feed you more of the same corporate poison. so will the rest.

period.

the fact citizen McCain or Hillary are more obvious puppets does not make Obama less of a sellout. for now, he’s just a better actor.

wake up. smell the Fascism and take back your nation.

‘cause no one else will do it for you.

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i don't give a shit which one gets the nomination
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Posted by: happyhermit on Feb 16, 2008 4:16 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i just don't want disaffected obamaniacs not to vote for Clinton in the general if she wins (obviously they will say that clinton stole it or whatever.)

yes agreed, obama, different, kenya-kansas, bush bad, clinton nostalgia etc etc...

someone above had the right idea: there might be a severe deflation of obamania if he wins the general election and doesn't change the world right away. what's worse: if anyone actually wants him to change things, they'll probably have to protest him, not fawn all over him.

frankly i wonder if we should just keep our mouths shut about how neither of these candidates are anti-war/corporate free/progressive saviors until one of them is elected. this delusion is driving a mini-revolution that could fully embarrass the republicans and even ruin their party. let's just ride it for now.

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Phun
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Posted by: DaBear on Feb 16, 2008 6:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fun article... I fully expect much more of the same inane bullshit from the 'Merkaan aristocracy's choices this fall.

Obama as Prex would be fun visually, but I'm sure it'll be more of the same old same old. I can just hear it now, "well, we must be realistic, we really will have to stay in Iraq for now... we'll really just have to keep using oil for now, we'll [meaning just the po' folk] really have to do without homes, etc." until we all puke...

Course if it be Hill, I can see the 100 years war in Iraq just being normal and under McCain I can see mass shootings by the disillusioned daily and a massive rise in neo-nazi and fundie Xtian violence.

I totally agree with Barbara... it's totally about jumpin' out the damned winda while the tower burns to the ground.

Frankly, we ought to keep Kim Stanley Robinson's The Wild Shore out of the rest of the world's hands because if they get a clue and come shut the U.S. of Asshats down for our own good, we'll really be in it then.

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Unstoppable? Hardly
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Posted by: SophieL on Feb 16, 2008 6:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've never thought he was unstoppable. Gaining, for the time being, maybe. But not unstoppable.

His momentum is pure magic. Magical indeed, for one to cast the other candidate as divisive while crooning nothing but divisive rhetoric. ..."they've said this about us this...they've tried to do that to us..." A reality-based headline would be: US vs. THEM preacher wins Uniter not Divider title. Absolute brilliant magic that this is working!

Did the Clinton Camp "misunderestimate" him? Probably, to some extent. Of course, that's an oversimplification of an underlying mood in this country. There's a collectively feeling of dirtiness after seven years of George Bush. The hope is that Barack is the right guy to make us feel wholesome and clean and good about ourselves again. We felt the same kind of dirty about the Nixon era. We elected Jimmy Carter to make us feel wholesome and clean and good about ourselves again. In fact, Jimmy Carter had some of the same exact advisors and handlers that Barack now has.

For those of you who don't remember the Carter years, we had double-digit inflation, long gas lines that led to odd and even gas days, Ph.D's bagging groceries, and we coined a new economic term: stagflation. Don't get me wrong--I love Jimmy Carter and I think he's a great man and even a hero in some ways, but he did not belong being the President of the United States.

So folks, fun as the ride has been, we've been on this train before and it doesn't go anywhere good. Much as this fantasy kicks the butt of the reality we live in, it isn't real and it won't be real fun.

Like a small child, history repeats itself. Maybe, if someone would pay attention to it, it would stop.

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» RE: Unstoppable? Hardly Posted by: AltB
» RE: Do I understand you right? Posted by: Longdream
» HIGH FIVE BEC! Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: Do I understand you right? Posted by: Longdream

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When the bubble bursts
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Posted by: anothername on Feb 16, 2008 7:02 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People see in Obama what they want to see in him. What scares me to the point where I will not vote for him is what will happen, if he is elected, when people start realizing that their vision of what he is does not match up with the reality. That moment of awareness will be the counter depressive to the current wave of manic.

Obama is promising everything to everybody. He is a good writer but his much heralded books are not the Bible. They are textbooks in which Obama states he doesn't have any answers or any new ideas, just more of the same.

I'm trying to figure out what has gotten into David Brooks, though. Brooks had been pushing Obama as this thoughtful, caring senator. On the Chris Matthews show this weekend, he started pointing out holes in the Obama mystique. Brooks said Obama needs to get off college campuses and go to some factories. Brooks also said McCain does not respect Obama because McCain believes Obama went back on his word relative to some negotiations on a matter before the senate.

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» RE: When the bubble bursts Posted by: improperly_sedated
» RE: When the bubble bursts Posted by: anothername

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Just another emotional appeal
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Posted by: sdedalus616 on Feb 16, 2008 8:24 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All flash. No substance. While simultaneously
continuing to point and laugh at Clinton in an
adolescent, mean spirited and frankly stupid manner
with such nuggets as "along with the metronymic
nodding, which sometimes goes on long enough to
suggest a placement within the autism spectrum."

His legislative record? She means State legislature,
of course. Not nearly the caliber of a national
strategist.

I see nothing more here than the continued whining of
children.

Of course we want change. Now let's all grow up and
realize that it's going to take hard damn work, not
just wishful idolatry, to actually accomplish it and
untangle ourselves from the mess which has been
wrought. I, for one, prefer a tried and tested work
horse to a prancing show pony.

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Michelle Obama - Barack's #1 advisor
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Posted by: AltB on Feb 16, 2008 10:49 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As Michelle Obama is known to say, Barack is a very smart and talented man, but in the end he's just a man.

We all are prone to deify our elected leaders, or at least the office of the Presidency. But in the end, the office holder is simply a human just like the rest of us.

Perfect? No, are any us? Perfectly human? Yes. Is he trying to tell the truth and do the right thing? I feel that he is.

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Cute Lil Bunny
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Posted by: HeKnew on Feb 17, 2008 12:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Government of the people, by the people and for the people.

Direct Democracy

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metoo
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Posted by: metoo on Feb 17, 2008 4:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While I read this article and commentary I'm stuck asking myself, what do I expect?
Anyone that gets a far as Obama… had to be lifted into position, in my estimation, so who's going to win and loose with an Obama candidacy?

The Republicans obviously, but who. Do I expect a candidate to sever relationships with energy because they've been so exploitive? Will he spank the Military for being a puppet on Bushco's string? Will he charge the Rich for the plight of the poor? Will he convince the rising tide of nations that intend to smother us, to stand down, and if so how, and if so why would they?

Does Obama pose more of a threat to the rising tide of nations than the fanatical Bushcos? Will an Obama Presidency be a time of penance for the deeds we have done?

Quite frankly I don't see America getting on her knees to repent, and I don't see the world settling for anything less than a full reversal of aggression and a full explanation of how it all came about.

Does any new president write Bush off as an anomaly without explaining its history?

If we are to move on, change, hope to change, I think we will need to disclose to the world what happened and how we intend to put in place devices, firewalls if you will, so that it never happens again.

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I am commenting on the
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Stellaa on Feb 17, 2008 7:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
candidate, not spouses. Get a grip.

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End 2 Party Sys. Ind. majority
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Posted by: Andie927 on Feb 17, 2008 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
60% of voter's are Independent, Let's start demanding a "None of the Above" on the ticket! More then 50%, we start over!!

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WARNING !!! WARNING !!! THE REAL GOP BOMB THAT WILL DESTROY OBAMA'S PRESIDENTIAL RUN !!!!
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Posted by: maxpayne on Feb 17, 2008 12:21 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No, He Can’t Because Yes, They Will

Like Hillary, Obama's just as controversial and the GOP WILL SWIFTBOAT HIM in the worst way that John Kerry and even Dukakis will look like they got mildly attacked. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED !

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Legislative records: Obama & Clinton
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Posted by: AltB on Feb 17, 2008 12:43 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was going to post this following up on buried comments I made yesterday where I mention comparison lists on the Internet of Clinton's and Obama's legislative experience.

Here are some sources (gov/press/blog):

Guardian-UK - LINK

Obsidian Wings - LINK

Library of Congress/Thomas Site (down as of this posting) - LINK

VQTE: Vote Quality/Quality Vote? - LINK

Obama
During the first eight years of his elected service he sponsored over 820 bills. He introduced:
233 regarding healthcare reform,
125 on poverty and public assistance,
112 crime fighting bills,
97 economic bills,
60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills,
21 ethics reform bills,
15 gun control,
6 veterans affairs and many others.
His first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427. These included:
- the Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 (became law),
- The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act, (became law),
- The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, passed the Senate,
- The 2007 Government Ethics Bill, (became law),
- The Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, (In committee)

Clinton
Senator Clinton, who has served only one full term (6yrs.), and another year campaigning, has managed to author and pass into law, (20) twenty pieces of legislation.
1. Establish the Kate Mullany National Historic Site.
2. Support the goals and ideals of Better Hearing and Speech Month.
3. Recognize the Ellis Island Medal of Hon
4. Name courthouse after Thurgood Marshall.
5. Name courthouse after James L. Watson.
6. Name post office after Jonn A. O'Shea.
7. Designate Aug. 7, 2003, as National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
8. Support the goals and ideals of National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
9. Honor the life and legacy of Alexander Hamilton on the bicentennial of his death.
10. Congratulate the Syracuse Univ. Orange Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.
11. Congratulate the Le Moyne College Dolphins Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.
12. Establish the 225th Anniversary of the American Revolution Commemorative Program.
13. Name post office after Sergeant Riayan A. Tejeda.
14. Honor Shirley Chisholm for her service to the nation and express condolences on her death.
15. Honor John J. Downing, Brian Fahey, and Harry Ford, firefighters who lost their lives on duty.
Only five of Clinton's bills are more substantive:
16. Extend period of unemployment assistance to victims of 9/11.
17. Pay for city projects in response to 9/11
18. Assist land mine victims in other countries.
19. Assist family caregivers in accessing affordable respite care.
20. Designate part of the National Forest System in Puerto Rico as protected in the wilderness preservation system.
NOTE: Does not include Clinton's documents from her days in the Whitehouse. Records have been witheld.

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"We are the change we've been waiting for"
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Posted by: hurricane hugo on Feb 17, 2008 1:01 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...means get off your fucking asses and do something!
If Obama is elected, he'll succeed or fail to the extent that you're willing to do so. The. End.

jdfu!

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Obama, Sure Some Faults, But He is A Good Start
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Posted by: sofla100 on Feb 17, 2008 4:21 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is a good article dealing with Obama's state legislative record. Particularly, getting a good law passed to protect rights of the accused (link broken up because Alternet is funky on posting any "word" in exess of 60 characters)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-

dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010303303.html

I think, on balance, Obama does deserve the support of the Left/Progressive Wing that we all mostly represent. He has a few problems, such as taking a lot of money from the corporate/Wall Street honchos, but really no more than any of them in a corrupt system still desperately in need of campaign finance reform. He's also biased, like most all of them, in favor of Israel, but seems more restrained then many of the others on endlessly building up the military and going to war. So finally, Obama is a good start for us to get moving forward in a progressive manner. So, I have moved past crying over Edwards/Kucinich, and on to the politics of the pragmatic. Bottom line, our nation and the world cannot take 4-8 years of another Republican SOB. Literally, millions of lives are at stake on who America puts into power. We have a responsibility to all the peoples of the World that we cannot ignore. So, I see working for and helping Obama to get elected as a good and progressive thing, and certainly worthy of my time and effort.

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Why is discriminatory language allowed in articles?
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Posted by: EKSwitaj on Feb 17, 2008 9:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the metronymic nodding, which sometimes goes on long enough to suggest a placement within the autism spectrum

Can progressives please stop using autistic as insult?

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And what is he gonna do
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Posted by: Stellaa on Feb 17, 2008 10:47 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look inspiring? New age gimics courtesy of Oprah's Course in Miracles. The miracle will happen if we believe....right.

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Thank you all, pro and con.
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Posted by: oceanwaves99999 on Feb 18, 2008 8:43 AM   
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I'm the writer of Poor, poor America. I do appreciate all your takes and views here on Alternet. I feel so lucky to be able to voice my opinions, however they may be taken. Hang in there all and may we somehow solve the riddle of endless occupations, invasions, stealing land and all that goes with it.

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Uh-uh.
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Posted by: Longdream on Feb 18, 2008 9:14 AM   
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You seem to be arguing quite vehemently against Obama, using easily-refuted, well-trammelled lies. That goes far beyond "devil's advocate" in my book.

If you intend only to make people think, then do it by reasoning, not by lying.

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Uh-oh
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Posted by: Longdream on Feb 18, 2008 11:26 AM   
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The above wasn't for you, Ocean, or for the general population--it was a reply to someone up the line, but didn't come out that way.

Sorry.

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» RE: Uh-oh Posted by: oceanwaves99999

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Emotional Rescue
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Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Feb 18, 2008 4:21 PM   
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Yes, Americans DO want a drastic and immediate change from the last seven disastrous years of Bush.
The signs say trouble: record foreclosures, ever-mounting debt, the high cost of education, unemployment, disappearing health benefits, school shootings, distant wars, etc. and whom are we to call to get us out of this malaise?
When things get really depressing, we look to someone or something to rescue us from our plight. Let's hope Obama be that someone to give us a new start.
He may or may not be that white knight in shining armor; but we haven't rallied behind anyone like him since-well-does anyone have any names to drop?

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» RE: motional Rescue Posted by: oceanwaves99999
» RE: Emotional Rescue Posted by: Longdream
» Living up to the hype Posted by: foreverhope

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Liberal Renaissance, yes, but...
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Posted by: pfraterdeus on Feb 19, 2008 9:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a young Cubs fan in 1969, I learned the hard way about leaning too hard into ones hopes and wishes.

Progressives are notoriously hard to placate, and even if Obama were to gain the White House, his time will be spent picking the incredible burden of ten thousand nits from the left along with the typical constant barrage of bullshit from the right.

Let's not burden our good fellow human with the curse of great expectations, but agree to first consider what we... I ... am willing to do to lighten his load when the time comes for leadership. When each and every citizen accepts the responsibility to lead by example and to help those in need, and to share the gifts of mind and nature for the greater good, we will deserve the boon of the finest leader the generation has to offer.

My darkest fear is that Obama will be too good for the country, the promise he offers becomes a sacrificial offering to the demons of selfishness.

On the flip side of all the optimism, I fear deeply for him and his family, including his Kenyan grandmother...

Quantum Magic and Love Quarks Blog at fraterdeus.com

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Why all the gloomy pessimism?
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Posted by: AmyB on Feb 19, 2008 4:01 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Honestly, I always thought I was a pessimist but I simply can't follow the logic that says because Obama is campaigning with an optimistic message he must be some kind of a phony.

Listen again to Obama's message. He's not saying that he's going to get us out of here single handedly. He's telling us that WE are all in this together and we are going to all pull together (Harambee!) to get ourselves out of this mess.

Isn't that exactly what we wanted to hear from GWB after 9/11 ?(and instead he told us to go home and go shopping.)

Obama is exactly as capable as any of the other two U.S. Senators running for president (which is to say, the governor of pretty much any largish state would probably have more practical experience than any of them). However, his campaign is based on a 50 state strategy that says "even you guys in flyover states are part of this"

All I can say, if he runs the country like he's running his campaign he'll be a great president.

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» RE: Yes, Amy! Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Yes, Amy! Posted by: oceanwaves99999

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The obvious next question is...
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Posted by: boundjymind on Feb 21, 2008 5:25 PM   
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The obvious next question is, once safely out, then where?

My friends see many his blog posts on a std personals site named Herpesmates.com

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Obama’s extreme liberalism will not work in the real world
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Posted by: liz2007 on Feb 21, 2008 7:41 PM   
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While Bush’s administration’s policy of unilaterism and neoconservatism represents one extreme and failed, Obama’s surrenderism represents another extreme on the liberal left, and is destined to fail as well. Those extreme well-to-do liberals who have never had to deal with difficulties faced many in the world dream of solving all problems by belief and rhetoric and wishful thinking. Obama’s extreme surrenderism, if applied, will undoubtedly expedite the slipping of American standing in the world. Throughout history, nothing has been achieved by pure good will. Oscillating from one extreme to another is not a good choice for America. America must select leaders who have Franklin D. Roosevelt’s sophistication. Obama’s willingness to sit down with any leader will not help American standing; it will undoubtedly lower it, as human history has invariably shown; the most recent being Carter’s spectacular failure in Middle East.

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You had me at "Empire" ---- except you never said the word!!
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Posted by: amacd on Feb 25, 2008 2:45 PM   
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Barbara Ehrenreich's conclusion almost hits it on the head when she says, "That's what "change" means right now: Get us out of here!"

But this only leads in circularity to the further question, "If we define 'change' as getting out of here, then what's "here'?"

Of course, the real answer to both of these vague and still unanswered questions is...

'Change' means changing from our current weak-kneed acceptance, to a change toward actually 'confronting Empire'.

And 'get us out of here' means to get us out of Empire (and back to democracy).

"Change" really means confronting and overcoming the global corporatist Empire, which is hiding behind the facade of "Vichy American" faux-government, and which is the only singular cause of all that is wrong with our country.

While "getting out of "here'" really means getting out of the belly of the Empire, in which we are caught, and of which no candidate or media will even whisper the name--Empire!

So Barbara, my suggestion to the supposedly "Unstoppable Obama" and to the American people is what it has always been:

"The very most important question that the American people should be asking of any candidate for President in '08 is not, "Where do you stand on the war?" but, "Where do you stand on the Empire that has taken over our country--an Empire of which the war in Iraq, and increasing domestic tyranny, are only its biggest and most visible crimes--so far?"

As far as I know the hopeful, inspiring and yet to be proven "unstoppable" Obama has never uttered the word "Empire," and has never in any rationally understandable way articulated that the global corporatist Empire hiding behind the facade of our now "Vichy" government is actually the seminal cause of all the "sorrows of Empire," pain and frustrations that make otherwise intelligent people like Ehrenreich blurt out, "Change" means right now: Get us out of here!"

Unless, and until, Obama drives a stake in the ground of rationally defined commitment and does something like define his "hope" and "change" and message of "yes, we can" as "Yes, we can overcome this corporatist Empire, which is the real and identified source of all our various sorrows and which in the real world "we can" overcome," then Obama will remain only a pleasant song and video of what "change" might promise, and he will remain for people like me, in the "reality-based world" only a hopeful allusion to a "faith-based" video that may only be implying that "Yes, we can" overcome Empire.

If Obama wants to become real for me, he needs to sing the lyrics a bit more clearly--"Yes, we can" ---- overcome Empire.

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