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Election 2008

Where Does Obama Come Down on Bush's 'War on Terror'?

By Liliana Segura, AlterNet. Posted February 9, 2008.


Barack Obama has pushed for restoring habeas corpus and closing Gitmo, but some of his positions on terrorism and civil liberties are vague.
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As endorsements poured in at the end of January for Barack Obama to become the next Democratic president of the United States, one in particular stood out: a call of support from a group of attorneys who have been defending Guantanamo detainees pro bono and who call themselves "Habeas Lawyers for Obama."

"Some politicians are all talk and no action," read their written statement, which they posted online. "But we know from firsthand experience that Sen. Obama has demonstrated extraordinary leadership on this critical and controversial issue. When others stood back, Sen. Obama helped lead the fight in the Senate against the administration's efforts in the fall of 2006 ... and when we were walking the halls of the Capitol trying to win over enough senators to beat back the administration's bill, Sen. Obama made his key staffers and even his offices available to help us."

It was a reference to the highly fraught passage of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, which, among other things, gutted the centuries-old right of habeas corpus and gave the president the power to define what qualifies as torture. The law is a devastating assault on due process, and Obama was an outspoken critic; in a speech delivered on the Senate floor, Obama rebuked the Bush administration for its blatant and shortsighted maneuvering to get the legislation passed before the midterm elections:

"I may have only been in this body for a short while, but I am not naive to the political considerations that go along with many of the decisions we make here," he said. "I realize that soon we will adjourn for the fall and the campaigning will begin in earnest. And there will be 30-second attack ads and negative mail pieces, and we (the Democrats) will be criticized as caring more about the rights of terrorists than the protection of Americans."

"The problem with this bill is not that it's too tough on terrorists," Obama said. "The problem with this bill is that it's sloppy. And the reason it's sloppy is because we rushed it to serve political purposes instead of taking the time to do the job right."

Pleading for support of a co-sponsored amendment that would have given the law a five-year expiration date, Obama said: "At bare minimum, I hope we can at least pass this provision, so that cooler heads can prevail after the silly season of politics is over." In the end, the amendment failed, and Obama voted against the bill. (Whether Obama would have voted for a five-year suspension of habeas corpus is not clear.)

Now, with his election campaign in full swing, Obama has positioned himself as just that: a level-headed candidate who can transcend political pettiness and bring people together in order to get things done. To his credit, he has promised he will restore habeas corpus and declares that it is "never OK" to torture. He has called for closing Guantanamo (all the leading candidates have, in fact, with the exception of the recently departed Mitt Romney, who would have famously "doubled" it). For anyone opposed to the Bush administration's stampede on human rights, such promises are reassuring. But they are also a sad indication how dismally low our political standards have become. Opposition to torture is not a brave stance. You're supposed to be against it.

The habeas attorneys' support is a significant endorsement of a candidate who has often invoked his expertise in constitutional law in criticizing the abusive behavior of the Bush administration. But given Obama's emphasis on -- and history of -- reaching across the aisle in order to make compromises in the name of change, a dose of skepticism is in order. Whoever inherits the so-called War on Terror must be ready for an uncompromising confrontation of its most grievous excesses. Beyond his stance on habeas corpus and torture, in many ways Obama has been as tempered in his rhetoric against the War on Terror as he has been cautious in discussing how he will address the U.S. occupation of Iraq. And his speeches before various audiences over the past year have made it clear that, despite his vote against invading Iraq, he is capable of being nearly as hawkish as Hillary Clinton.

Closing Gitmo

When Clinton called, in April of last year at a hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee, for closing Guantanamo, she based her opinion in large part on statements by Secretary of Defense Robert Gates and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who had suggested that the prison was no longer an effective tool in the War on Terror. "Rather than keeping us more secure, keeping Guantanamo open is harming our national interests," she said. "It compromises our long-term military and strategic interests, and it impairs our standing overseas." Clinton concluded, vaguely, that "we should address any security issues on what to do with the remaining detainees, and then close it once and for all." "There is a lot of land in this country that the federal government owns," she added. "There is certainly no shortage of capacity to build a special detention or prison or to use one of the maximum security facilities that already exist."

A few months later, at the Yearly Kos convention in Chicago, Hillary was asked when she would rescind the Military Commissions Act and when "can we expect Guantanamo to be closed." "We're going to try to reinstate habeas corpus and reform the military tribunals/commissions procedures in the next few months," she said, citing the difficulty of passing such legislation. "We should start getting out," she said of Guantanamo. "If we don't get changes in the military commissions act and the reinstatement of habeas corpus, if we're not on the road to closing Guantanamo, when I'm president, I will start doing both those things."

There's something that reeks familiar about this rhetoric, an apparent refusal to say, in no uncertain terms, that unlawful detention is wrong and that addressing it is a major political priority. Perhaps that's one reason the Habeas Lawyers included a not-so-subtle jab at Hillary Clinton: "The administration's attack on habeas corpus rights is dangerous and wrong. America needs a president who will not triangulate this issue."

But what about Obama? Has he made it clear what he would do with the prisoners at Guantanamo? In his speech on the Senate floor, Obama said, "I've heard ... the argument that it should be military courts, and not federal judges, who should make decisions on these detainees. I actually agree with that." Expressing concern over the innocent men being held in legal limbo -- "We've already had reports ... saying that many of the detainees at Guantanamo shouldn't have been there" -- and invoking the case of Maher Arar, "the Canadian man ... detained in New York, sent to Syria, and tortured, only to find out later that it was all a case of mistaken identity" -- Obama stressed the need to be able to separate the innocent from the guilty. The problem with the commissions, he said "is that the structure of the military proceedings has been poorly thought through."

But for years, critics of the military commissions have not limited their concerns to the way they've been "thought through." When the Bush administration established its system of military tribunals following 9/11, civil rights attorneys balked, arguing that federal courts are an appropriate venue for prosecuting terrorism cases. In fact, as the New York Times reported in 2004, there were arguments even within the administration itself about the tribunals. One year after the arrival of detainees at Gitmo, with "no trials yet in sight":

"... some officials at the highest levels of the Bush administration began privately venting their frustration about both the slow pace of the Pentagon's new courts and the soundness of their rules. Attorney General John Ashcroft was especially vocal.

"'Timothy McVeigh was one of the worst killers in U.S. history,'" Mr. Ashcroft said at one meeting of senior officials, according to two of those present. "'But at least we had fair procedures for him.'"

Or as one colonel (who now, bizarrely, is a commissions judge) wrote at the time: "Even a good military tribunal is a bad idea. The existing United States criminal justice system does not have to be put aside simply because the potential defendants have scary friends."

The question of what to do with the detainees or their "scary friends" goes to the heart of the problem of an endless and (deliberately) ill-defined "war on terror." By agreeing that a military trial is the right place to try such defendants, Obama has given credence to one of its most dangerous premises: that the "battleground" spans across borders, giving the U.S. military ultimate latitude in prosecuting its captives. "The threats we face at the dawn of the 21st century can no longer be contained by borders and boundaries," Obama said in a speech last April. And in a separate speech a few months later, he said, "Our Constitution and our Uniform Code of Military Justice provide a framework for dealing with the terrorists." But can prosecutions really be tried transparently in a court run by the same force that detained, interrogated and, in many cases, tortured the defendant?

The unprecedented nature of the Bush administration's consolidation of power in the War on Terror makes it hard to speculate as to what a new administration would do to cede these powers. Whatever clues exist are likely to come from the advisors who surround them. Although Hillary's are more in step with a belligerent foreign policy, it's not news that Obama has surrounded himself largely with her husband's former advisors. (The Washington Post even ran a story last January that featured former Clintonites wringing their hands over their dueling loyalties.) Among them is former Clinton National Security Advisor Anthony Lake, who, as the journalist Allan Nairn recently reminded viewers of Democracy Now!, "was the main force behind the U.S. invasion of Haiti in the mid-Clinton years." Lake is on the advisory board of the Partnership for a Secure America ("dedicated to recreating the bipartisan center in American national security and foreign policy"), along with another Obama backer, Zbigniew Brzezinski. Brzeninski, who was National Security Adviser to Jimmy Carter, has been an outspoken critic of the War on Terror, everywhere from "The Daily Show" to Der Spiegel. But he also was one of the most aggressively vocal supporters of the bombing of Yugoslavia. ("I believe that the mass media ought to be more patient," he told Jim Lehrer as the air strikes continued in April 1999. "... It seems to me that leadership, political leadership, requires setting the tone and setting the direction, and not following public opinion polls.") Another advisor in Obama's camp, Sarah Sewall, penned the introduction to the new counterinsurgency handbook written by Gen. David Petraeus. "If anyone can save Iraq, it's David H. Petraeus," she wrote, not-so prophetically in the Washington Post last winter. (Or as one Vietnam major famously put it, "It became necessary to destroy the village in order to save it.")

Obama has an army of advisers, of course, with varying histories. But his continued funding of the war in Iraq, his hawkish lines on Pakistan -- which he has called "the right battlefield ... in the war on terrorism" -- and his aggressive rhetoric over the past year (before certain audiences) have provided a chilling glimpse of what isn't "off the table" when it comes to his view of U.S. military power.

In April of 2007, Obama gave a speech in Chicago at the Chicago Council on Global Affairs in which he outlined five ways he would lead if he were elected to the White House. Restoring habeas corpus was not among them. Neither was eradicating torture in the War on Terror. Neither, for that matter, was closing Guantanamo. To be fair, this does not mean he wouldn't do these things. But his argument rested on a sort of benevolent militarism and an expansion of U.S. involvement across the world -- as Noam Chomsky called it, "the new military humanism." For a candidate whose defining refrains are "hope" and "change," Obama echoes the legacies of Democratic presidents, from Carter to Clinton, whose administrations shaped conventional doctrines of Democratic foreign policy.

"There are five ways America will begin to lead again when I'm president," Obama said. The first way was by "building the first truly 21st century military ... and showing wisdom in how we deploy it." Such a military would "stay on the offense, from Djibouti to Kandahar." "No president should ever hesitate to use force -- unilaterally if necessary -- to protect ourselves and our vital interests ..." Obama said. "But when we use force in situations other than self-defense, we should make every effort to garner the clear support and participation of others -- the kind of burden-sharing and support President George H.W. Bush mustered before he launched Operation Desert Storm." He may have been making a point about diplomacy, but Obama's invocation of the 1991 Gulf War -- which leveled Iraq's civilian infrastructure and began the road to the occupation -- suggests that it's OK to destroy a country so long as you can cajole some other nations into supporting it.

In another speech -- titled "A War We Need to Win" -- Obama did speak out forcibly against torture and promised to close Guantanamo. But he also spoke of the "need to integrate all aspects of American might, calling for "a broader set of capabilities, as outlined in the Army and Marine Corps's new counter-insurgency manual" -- the one written by Gen. Petraeus. "To succeed, we must improve our civilian capacity. The finest military in the world," he said, nevertheless "cannot counter insurgent and terrorist threats without civilian counterparts who can carry out economic and political reconstruction missions -- sometimes in dangerous places." Obama pledged to "strengthen these civilian capacities, recruiting our best and brightest" and "increase both the numbers and capabilities of our diplomats, development experts, and other civilians who can work alongside our military."

Sounds a lot like those military contractors who have been in the news since Blackwater's killing of 17 Iraqi civilians in Baghdad's Nisour Square last September. To his credit, Obama was one of the few senators willing to address the issue before the massacre, but, as his speech suggests, his legislation sought to integrate mercenary forces into the war machine, rather than shut them down. It is an approach that has actually been endorsed by Blackwater and other mercenary firms.

The domestic war on terror

On the home front, one disquieting glimpse of what Obama's smarter, more sophisticated version of the War on Terror might look like is his position on the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act. Referred to by some as a "thought crimes" law, the bill passed the House by a vote of 400 to six last October. As Scott Thill wrote for AlterNet recently, the law:

"... defines 'homegrown terrorism' and 'violent radicalization' nebulously; the former is merely 'the use, planned use or threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives,' while the latter means "the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious or social change." Ideologically based violence, in turn, is defined as "the use, planned use or threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual to promote the group or individual's political, religious or social beliefs."
Sounds fair enough, until you start crunching the language and come to the realization that practically anyone, on any given day, could fit the description."

Like the War on Terror, the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act is purposefully, impossibly vague.

Yet, in December, members of Obama's official listserv received a message from the candidate that read:

"The American people understand that new threats require flexible responses to keep them safe. They also insist that our responses to threats respect the Constitution and do not violate the basic tenets of our democracy. The Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act includes provisions prohibiting the Department of Homeland Security's efforts from violating civil rights and civil liberties of U.S. citizens and lawful permanent residents."

Obama's campaign reps have since backpedaled, telling a reporter for The Indypendent (which helped break the story) that the senator "has not taken a position" on the legislation. "Should the bill be considered by the Homeland Security Committee, he will carefully evaluate it, as he does with all pieces of legislation." Obama has been silent on the issue since. As a member of the Homeland Security Committee, he is in a position to exert his influence. As a presidential candidate, however, it is to be expected that he would scuttle such a politically risky responsibility.

Obama's equivocation on a no-brainer like the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act is an unnerving illustration of precisely what his opponents have taken him to task for: an unwillingness to take a specific and uncomproming position when it counts. His opposition to the war on Iraq and his defense of habeas corpus are important. But, like his vote to reauthorize an amended Patriot Act, Obama has shown himself too willing to reform rather than fight against some of the worst policies of the Bush administration.

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An Aging Radical on Race and Politics
Posted by: nihilozero on Feb 9, 2008 1:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
An Aging Radical on Race and Politics

I don't write much these days. Formerly I wrote quite a bit about
radical politics and social transformation, but I've grown weary of
that practice and it never really seemed to amount to much anyway. In
my experience it's often thankless work if you're promoting
revolutionary changes because there aren't that many who can truly
appreciate radical ideas. And, even if some do appreciate the ideas,
they usually couldn't help you in many ways even if they were so
inclined. Anti-materialistic philosophy often effects the choices
people make in their lives (in terms of acquiring and dispersing even
the most fundamental necessities). And these days a guaranteed home
and food supply, to say nothing of ample leisure, is often considered
something of a luxury. The progress of the civilized world has led us
to a place of slums and hundreds of millions being severely
malnourished. I could, and will, go on highlighting the serious
shortcomings of the modern global system -- but that's just a backdrop
to the ideas I will be trying to develop in this article.

This is difficult for me because I am loathe to discuss the topics of
the title which relentlessly cause so much stress, in so many ways, in
so many lives. I think these things are important to consider and
thoughtful consideration is still something that I have a bit of
respect for. So I am going to present some ideas here which will
inevitably be received as somewhat controversial by so many backwards
regressive types who run roughshod over everyone and everything they
can. Controversy is not my goal. Neither is addressing the criticism
of small corrupted minds. Once again... it's thoughtful consideration
which I hope to engage in, and possibly inspire, to some degree. If I
could make these ideas into single soundbite or a pill which you could
pop for enlightenment, I would -- but I am not Fox News or Pfizer.
These ideas are best presented with a well developed background and
so, as wildly as the world is spinning out of control, I'm not going
to rush what I have to say. If you don't have the attention span to
take a few minutes to consider these subjects (about which some of you
might even fancy yourselves as experts), then you are possibly part of
the problem. And I don't herein present myself as infallible, but I
will try here to be honest and, again, only hope to make some of us
think a bit. The tone of this article will be blunt, casual, and
frank -- it's the only way I can write it.

RACE

Like many Americans, I have very limited knowledge about my racial or
ethnic history. I know that I am pale and ate at McDonald's as
child. If people feel they can or can't trust me because of these
things, I can understand the conditioning that would lead to that
narrowmindedness. But to provide a background of my own experience,
here are the specifics that I know about my own personal ethnic/racial
makeup... One grandfather claimed his relatives came from a country
between France and Germany which no longer exists. Obviously this
doesn't tell me much and, frankly, I'm not sure where he's talking
about or if he had any real clue himself. He and his family were
farmers in Arkansas, perhaps cotton-pickers like ... complete article concludes here: http://raceandpolitics.notlong.com/

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He needs to be cautious for now
Posted by: willie.horton on Feb 9, 2008 3:21 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The right-wing Hate Machine is already referring to him as a Muslim terrorist. If he starts blabbing about closing Gitmo, they'll use that to bury him (and elect Great-Grandpa Simpson).

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Election Choices
Posted by: farmertx on Feb 9, 2008 4:09 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obamas' comments about Pakistan do make sense. Just as Shrub made sense when he stated that the terrorist's must not have a safe shelter in any Country.
It is one thing to talk about destroying the US, as the old USSR used to do regularly. It is quite another to take direct action. And that is when we must respond.
I don't consider myself a Hawk, although I do acknowledge that we need a Military for defense.
Our current system of allowing the folks with the most money to dictate who runs for office isn't the best. Because all too often we wind up voting for the lesser of two evils.
On the Democratic ticket, Barack is definitely the lesser of the evils.

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The right stuff!
Posted by: carbon-based on Feb 9, 2008 4:32 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What I like about Obama, is that he is not making the crazy remarks in his stump speeches. He is not saying I'll have troops out of Iraq within 60 days like I heard Hillary say the other day. (she actually misspoke has her position was to begin addressing the issue after 60 days in office.

I like that Obama seems to recognize that there is a "real" world out there and no one can walk into the office and just reverse years of policies. Reality comes into play. I get a sense that he seems to know that when he is faced with the mounds of information that drives these decisions that no Americans see or are even aware of, things will look different and his actions may not be what people expect.

This is what I like about him.. No crazy promises, but realistic views. I may not agree with all his views, but I like him more and more. I sense he can be trusted to do the right thing.

He will be the reason the democrats win the election, Hillary will lose if nominated!

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Change takes both radicals and a majority
Posted by: ashmom2 on Feb 9, 2008 5:32 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I believe that change never happens unless there are radicals on either end of an issue calling for it. On this issue, I think that Naomi Wolf is one such voice. Until I read her book, The End of America: Letter to a Young Patriot, I had never heard of the Military Commissions Act. She makes a great argument that America is going through a facist shift. I think that the author of this piece is another such radical. I applaud both Ms. Wolf and this author for their voices. Radical voices, however, are idealistic and miss the realities of how change actually happens. It is clear that Sen. Obama has the most progressive voting record of any candidate in the race for president. It is clear that he is against the military commissions act and all it stands for. It is also clear that he is realistic about how change happens in the political context. If the American people will awaken and help progressives create the political majority that Sen. Obama is asking for; if they will awaken and realize that they, too, have a responsibility in this democracy; then change will occur much more quickly. Until we, as Americans, join our progressive leaders with our voices and, most importantly, our votes, our progressive leaders will be fighting with one hand tied behind their backs.

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Rebecca
Posted by: Bec59 on Feb 9, 2008 5:51 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama culls most of his ideas from former Clinton aids. (who have their own political aspirations involving being on the cutting edge of political excitement and involvement so their careers can continue as politicians go in and out of the main scene--in other words, the pol operatives have their bills to pay, too--they must stay relevant---not necessarily loyal)Also, have you really checked out Obama's voting record? I mean really. Some good votes, many wimpy votes of merely "present"--meaning no concrete stance until he sees which way the wind is blowing and whose opinions he can co-opt. He's on the record as having voted for a bill limiting citizens regress to abusive corporations--betcha' most didn't know that one. I think most Obama supporters are well-meaning but are actually fantisizing their candidate into existence. I will vote for Hillary.

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» RE: ebecca Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: ebecca Posted by: Bibsi
Rebecca
Posted by: Bec59 on Feb 9, 2008 5:54 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As an addendum to the above comment by Rebecca---Sorenson is his speech writer---great writer who worked for Kennedy and was a close confidant--he's an old man now in his 80's--however pretty words do not make a person great, especially when they're written by someone else.

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» RE: Rebecca Posted by: Longdream
Rebecca
Posted by: Bec59 on Feb 9, 2008 6:08 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did anyone else watch Larry King's interview with John Legend, Will.I.Am from the "Black Eyed Peas" who made the "Yes We Can" video sweeping the internet,both Obama supporters, and America Ferrera of "Ugly Betty", a Clinton "Hill Blazer"? Hmmmm. The two Obama supporters barely knew where Obama stands on any issues. Larry asked Will.I.Am about Obama and the economy and Will stumbled and mumbled something about bringing jobs back to America from overseas, making products here--that was it and he wasn't very clear at all--America at least knew a bit more detail about Hill's stances. That tells me that Obama's supporters may not really know much about their candidate but are fantisizing that they know. I'll vote for Hillary.

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» RE: The Culture of the Media Posted by: Longdream
» RE: ebecca Posted by: Bibsi
But Can Obama Stand-Up to the American Empire Project?
Posted by: sofla100 on Feb 9, 2008 6:24 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Currently, the USA is using the pretext of the "war on terror," to ratchet up a new arms race with Russia. By expanding NATO to Russia's borders and placing a so-called missle interceptor site in Poland, while the real aim is as Russia knows, to have a forward operating base for intelligence gathering. So, what will Obama do about this? GW Bush has proposed record military budgets year after year, not just for the Iraq/Afghanistan fights, but for the military/national security infrastructure and American bases that girdle the world. From Japan to Germany to Guam, the sun never sets on the American Empire. Does Obama have the strength to stand-up to the military/commercial interests that derive billions from the Empire? To stand up to Blackwater, GE and Boeing? To stand up to the people who make billions on the continued manufacturing of unneeded nuclear weapons and mutli-billion dollar submarines and planes the USA no longer needs? Obama doesn't have a chance, let's not kid ourselves. The Empire will live on.

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» I agree except Posted by: fifthworld
» RE: I agree except Posted by: sofla100
Conservative "realists" and stargazers support Clinton/Obama
Posted by: mutualaid on Feb 9, 2008 6:26 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those who have said they support Clinton or Obama above do not address the substance of his politics or hers.

These are politicians who have failed to take a leadership role on any of the corporate-media imposed, Constitution-bashing, war crimes of the bush administration.

Don't you care about our country? Oh, I forgot, you are realists. Well most Americans and most enlisted soldiers want us our of Iraq now!

What are you? Part of the 'leadership' of UFPJ?

I much prefer working for real change than fooling people: http://nyc.indymedia.org/en/2008/02/94456.html

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Obama a Hallmark card
Posted by: davidg on Feb 9, 2008 7:05 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think voting for Obama is like reading Hallmark cards looking for depth. At at Hallmark, it's business as usual. He still panders to American exceptionalism and assumed hegemony. He has to.(note his remarks on bombing in Pakistan.) Edwards presented some harsh realities and learned the lesson.

Actually, I think Obama is a good man but, if it happens, the office will shape him. He must lead the myth, anyone in the office has to. It's the job.

If he were serious about the little guy, he would get rid of the superfluous and parasitic health insurance industry...and debunk the lies about other Western systems.

However, no leader can effect the necessary changes (no matter the slogans), it will take a paradigm shift in the culture, and that's no small feat. Doable? Some of us have started.

Maybe the good Mr. Obama, and I mean that, can be educated?

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Seeing through "hope" and "change" buzzwords
Posted by: fifthworld on Feb 9, 2008 7:44 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you for broaching the subject. Obama is not the real deal that naive, sucker liberals fantasize, patting themselves on the back that they're not for the ice queen Hillary. Obama is a poser, trying to sound like a King or what have you. He is not a progressive (just because he WAS an urban organizer or is in Jeremiah Wright's congregation in Chicago!?!) and will not (even be able to) stand up to corporate interests, an entrenched military-congressional-pharmaceutical-nuclear-consumerzombie industrial complex. Remind yourselves who really runs the show -- to some extent, we don't even know. And the point is not that he needs to appear moderate in order to get nominated or elected, pathetic enough for a "demockracy"; the point is that he is in fact more of the same, certainly in the sense that no one, without the backing and coup force of collective uprising, can lead us through the evil of big-money politics. And economic collapse will be happening sooner than that. It has to happen, or begin to happen, for us to be shaken up enough to turn around and reprioritize EVERYTHING, personally and collectively. THEN we can talk about leadership.

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» In nine months... Posted by: buffeliscious
» RE: In nine months... Posted by: left_libertarian
» RE: In nine months... Posted by: CJC
» This is UTTER DRIVEL Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» Who are our third party candidates? Posted by: buffeliscious
The uninformed, or misinformed, American
Posted by: eddief on Feb 9, 2008 9:34 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Assuming Ms Segura is correct in her assessment of Obama's positions and omissions, for him to adopt all of her recommendations would expose him even more to the coming diatribes by the Republican lie machine.
The average American is uninformed about the details and nuances of all the issues; they look at generalities and slogans. And the Republicans are the experts in simplification and distortion of issues ("remember swift-boating"?).
So perhaps Obama can't be completely trusted, or perhaps he needs to be cautious to be elected. If the latter is true, it is the fault of we, the American people, who are grossly uninformed or, worse yet, misinformed.

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DON'T EXPECT ANY MIRACLES
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Feb 9, 2008 10:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm sure that Obama is overwhelmed by his supporters. I believe he's sincere and means every word that he says. But does anyone really believe that he or anyone else can reverse the damage done by the Bush administration without being given enough time. It's unfair to expect that things will turn around as quickly as we'd all like. Bush still has no real plan for Iraq and it's been years. Why don't we pressure him? Thanks, ANNA

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» RE: DON'T EXPECT ANY MIRACLES Posted by: nochicagoboys
This is a put up job Democratic style
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Feb 9, 2008 11:45 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The democrats get their money from the same people the republicans do. So why would you expect Obama,or Billary,or any of the candidates to end this illegal war? They would not. We'll get the Nixon treatment from Mr. Obama. Most of your readers are too young to remember Tricky Dick's 'Secret Plan' to end the Vietnam War. A plan that was'nt put into motion until the end of his first term.
Personally I fear for Mr. Obama's life. I see a pattern emerging here and it's not pretty. He's being made out to be a 'Man of the People'. If true that would be a good thing. But if that were true he would'nt have accepted the democrats invitation to run for office in a state he did'nt even live in to defeat their local republican,check with Illinios in 2004. That means he's plyable,moldable and a great candidate to become America's first Black, assasinated President. Think I'm crazy? Check you history books. Everyone that ever was 'For the People' got wacked. I hope that does'nt happen. Because deep down I believe he's really a good person,contrary to the off camera,post news interview shots of him acting like kind of a dick.
I don't believe he'll end this war. He might get us out of Iraq but there's other targets we already are laying the groundwork to invade under the guise of 'Terrorism'. Being a puppet of color still makes you a puppet and his string are heavy,thick and deeply embedded.
We need to elect folks that have no ties to corperations,billionaires or such-and-such lobbys. We need to Think Outside the System.
Think for Ourselves. You might want to stop watching the TV news and canceling you newspaper subscriptions,because they're in on the fix too.
Draft Jeffrey7 for Prez '08

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» who is jeffrey7? please... Posted by: davidg
» RE: who is jeffrey7? please... Posted by: jeffrey7
» thank you, Jeffrey 7 Posted by: davidg
» Indeed, vote Jeffrey7 08 Posted by: fifthworld
» RE: Indeed, vote Jeffrey7 08 Posted by: jeffrey7
» Good retort, Jeffrey! Posted by: Cathyc
is the good the enemy of the perfect
Posted by: whealeydj on Feb 9, 2008 12:44 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would have voted for Kucinich since he seemed perfect on everything but he bowed out due to a primary challenge at home congressional district (I would love more articles on that). As others have said, Obama has to seem vagueand moderate in order to be be elected-- he remains more liberal at heart than the DLC Clinton crowd. Despite doubts sowed by Clinton supporters and this article, Obama remains the best choice now that Kucinich and Edwards are gone. I dont trust H.R. Clinton and the John the Mad Bomber McCain would be a fiasco.

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» Kucinich by the way Posted by: fifthworld
» RE: Kucinich by the way Posted by: nochicagoboys
the whole panel of candidates....
Posted by: davidg on Feb 9, 2008 3:03 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is a bad joke, but that's what the culture produced. Fix that. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

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Obama - Marrried to the MOB
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Feb 9, 2008 4:08 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
#1 this isn't sock-puppet "Bush's 'War on Terror".

All of Washington and an entire fraud U.S. press corp machine has been shoving an utterly bogus CIA created “Al-Qaeda” war down America's throat since cover-up 9/11. A more treacherous form of Orwellian brainwash would be difficult to imagine.

Expecting so-called "change" from CFR insider Obama is like believing Macys Santa will make everything sweet come the holidays.

Truth is, American government is now a criminal sham run by and for multinational monopoly corporate crime. That’s also called Fascism. Of course, virtually to a man, the founders warned the “Money Power” would try to overthrow America..

Orwell’s Big Brother with its endless phony war, MSM “DoubleSpeak” the “Control of History”, “Enemies Defined by the State”, “Torture”, etc, is quite real. The whole lot. And it’s killing humanity along with its dreams by the million.

But an internal war by a parasite ruling class on America is just starting. Obama is merely the latest handpicked prize salesman to put a happy 2-face on it all.



“The minority, the ruling class at present, has the schools and press, usually the Church as well, under its thumb. This enables it to organize and sway the emotions of the masses, and make its tool of them.”
Doctor Albert Einstein (letter to Sigmund Freud 7/30/1932)

“Those that can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.”
Voltaire

“Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.”
Orwell

“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.”
Thomas Pynchon (Gravity’s Rainbow 1973)

"Our Western history is every bit as distorted, censored and largely useless as that of Hitler's Germany or the Soviet Union or Communist China..."
Antony Sutton

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Obama more interested in winning than civil liberties
Posted by: gabbyone on Feb 9, 2008 4:50 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a constituant of Obama's and I have been contacting him, as have many other activists in Illinois about holding Bush accountable and restoring civil liberties. Ever since he was elected all of his responses have said.....now remember, this is a
Constituional professor,......the President will be gone soon and what we need to do now is concentrate on winning and passing the legislation the people elected us to do.
Without 60 in the Senate this has been a
formidable task, but Ohama has chosen to ignore the civil liberties issue and continue to say this is not what he was sent to Washington to do. How can you be a Constituional lawyer and professor and say civil liberties are not really impotant right now....aren't they always important?

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» Longdreams Identity Crisis Posted by: Persephone8
The usual suspects, posting the usual crap.
Posted by: Longdream on Feb 9, 2008 5:44 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As boring as it is false.

A mitigating factor is the article under which the comments are posted, which is four long pages full of waffling and speculation, and ultimately says something like, Obama said this, but he may not say it later, and he didn't put it in his top four priority things, so we may be in big trouble, or we may not.

Aren;t there any real issues to talk about, or is logorrhea like this published here just to keep the people who like to make up facts happy?

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» RE: Nero fiddled while Rome burned... Posted by: nochicagoboys
Terrorist
Posted by: HeKnew on Feb 9, 2008 5:50 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once they're in, what then?

A Vote of Confidence Amendment will enable the American voting public to dismiss and hold over for criminal prosecution any elected official who fails in their obligation to serve the people of the United States.

VOCA, now

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Webster Tarpley speaks of the Obama/Brzezinski threat
Posted by: fifthworld on Feb 9, 2008 8:04 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tarpley interviewed by Kevin Barrett tonight on Republic Broadcasting Network (his program "Truth Jihad Radio" is already archived) really gives the scoop on the powers that be, behind Obama the Manchurian Candidate. Give it a listen... see what you think. www.republicbroadcasting.org

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I'm with you
Posted by: evle on Feb 9, 2008 8:06 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Open your mind. Forget all the propaganda. Then read through Obama, Clinton, McCain and Paul's websites. I'm voting for Senator Clinton.

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Cute Lil Bunny
Posted by: HeKnew on Feb 9, 2008 11:50 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama looks and talks like he was created by Pixar Animation Studios. I trust him about as far as I can spit.

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» RE: Cute Lil Bunny Posted by: jasonkli
» RE: Cute Lil Bunny Posted by: Longdream
Obama another used car vendor
Posted by: compu on Feb 10, 2008 12:38 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but some of his positions on terrorism and civil liberties are vague ?
All about him is vague,he even does not look
people on the eye.When he meets people,appear
to wanted to be somewhere else.Seldom engage.
Do agree with some posts,he can't stand to
the IMC.As I said before.Since long ago no one
dare mess with US,unless we do nasty things aboad.The communism and war on terror are scarecrows to fleece us.

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I missed the memo
Posted by: Longdream on Feb 10, 2008 2:22 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who scheduled the Party of Death Cell Meeting in here?

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» RE: I missed the memo Posted by: Persephone8
History Quotes and Santayana
Posted by: Persephone8 on Feb 11, 2008 5:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.wisdomquotes.com/cat_history.html



http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/santayana/

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Vote Count- A Bill to extend and modify authorities needed to combat terrorism....
Posted by: Persephone8 on Feb 11, 2008 9:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Vote Summary
Question: On the Conference Report (H.R. 3199 Conference Report )
Vote Number: 29 Vote Date: March 2, 2006, 03:01 PM
Required For Majority: 1/2 Vote Result: Conference Report Agreed to
Measure Number: H.R. 3199
Measure Title: A bill to extend and modify authorities needed to combat terrorism, and for other purposes.
Vote Counts: YEAs 89
NAYs 10
Not Voting 1
Vote Summary By Senator Name By Vote Position By Home State

Alphabetical by Senator Name
Akaka (D-HI), Nay
Alexander (R-TN), Yea
Allard (R-CO), Yea
Allen (R-VA), Yea
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Bennett (R-UT), Yea
Biden (D-DE), Yea
Bingaman (D-NM), Nay
Bond (R-MO), Yea
Boxer (D-CA), Yea
Brownback (R-KS), Yea
Bunning (R-KY), Yea
Burns (R-MT), Yea
Burr (R-NC), Yea
Byrd (D-WV), Nay
Cantwell (D-WA), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Chafee (R-RI), Yea
Chambliss (R-GA), Yea
Clinton (D-NY), Yea
Coburn (R-OK), Yea
Cochran (R-MS), Yea
Coleman (R-MN), Yea
Collins (R-ME), Yea
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Cornyn (R-TX), Yea
Craig (R-ID), Yea
Crapo (R-ID), Yea
Dayton (D-MN), Yea
DeMint (R-SC), Yea
DeWine (R-OH), Yea
Dodd (D-CT), Yea
Dole (R-NC), Yea
Domenici (R-NM), Yea
Dorgan (D-ND), Yea
Durbin (D-IL), Yea
Ensign (R-NV), Yea
Enzi (R-WY), Yea
Feingold (D-WI), Nay
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Frist (R-TN), Yea
Graham (R-SC), Yea
Grassley (R-IA), Yea
Gregg (R-NH), Yea
Hagel (R-NE), Yea
Harkin (D-IA), Nay
Hatch (R-UT), Yea
Hutchison (R-TX), Yea
Inhofe (R-OK), Yea
Inouye (D-HI), Not Voting
Isakson (R-GA), Yea
Jeffords (I-VT), Nay
Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Kennedy (D-MA), Yea
Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Kyl (R-AZ), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
Lautenberg (D-NJ), Yea
Leahy (D-VT), Nay
Levin (D-MI), Nay
Lieberman (D-CT), Yea
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Lott (R-MS), Yea
Lugar (R-IN), Yea
Martinez (R-FL), Yea
McCain (R-AZ), Yea
McConnell (R-KY), Yea
Menendez (D-NJ), Yea
Mikulski (D-MD), Yea
Murkowski (R-AK), Yea
Murray (D-WA), Nay
Nelson (D-FL), Yea
Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Obama (D-IL), Yea
Pryor (D-AR), Yea
Reed (D-RI), Yea
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Roberts (R-KS), Yea
Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Salazar (D-CO), Yea
Santorum (R-PA), Yea
Sarbanes (D-MD), Yea
Schumer (D-NY), Yea
Sessions (R-AL), Yea
Shelby (R-AL), Yea
Smith (R-OR), Yea
Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Specter (R-PA), Yea
Stabenow (D-MI), Yea
Stevens (R-AK), Yea
Sununu (R-NH), Yea
Talent (R-MO), Yea
Thomas (R-WY), Yea
Thune (R-SD), Yea
Vitter (R-LA), Yea
Voinovich (R-OH), Yea
Warner (R-VA), Yea
Wyden (D-OR), Nay
Vote Summary By Senator Name By Vote Position By Home State

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