COMMENTS: 119
Hillary Clinton's Ruthless Campaign
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On Tuesday night, Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., flew to Florida for a "victory rally" in a state that was awarding no delegates, because it was penalized by national party officials for holding an unauthorized early primary. Last summer, she and the other candidates pledged not to campaign in the Sunshine State. Still, Clinton held the rally, declaring victory on national television. Millions of people in the 22 states who will vote next Tuesday probably saw her, not knowing the Florida vote was moot. And in Florida, Clinton pledged to seat its delegates at the Democratic National Convention.
"Hillary won the highest turnout Democratic primary in Florida history," her website gushed on a page giving daily talking points to supporters. "Hillary received more votes in Florida than Sen. (John) McCain, the winner of the Republican primary. Hillary also received more votes in Florida alone than Sen. (Barack) Obama received in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina."
If Clinton's boast makes you grimace -- she also charged that Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., was first to break the DNC's no-campaigning pledge by running a national cable ad that was seen in Florida and by getting good press after winning big in South Carolina -- then these brazen moves give a very clear view of Clinton's leadership style. Regardless of her center-left positions on issues, Hillary Clinton is fighting to win.
In fact, there may be no better illustration of the divide-and-conquer style of politics that Obama seeks to overcome than the tactics of his most aggressive rival, Clinton.
"The (Florida) vote turned out to be more than symbolic," Mark Penn, Clinton's chief strategist said in an email Tuesday night, spinning the result. "Well over 1.5 million Democrats cast their ballots, more than twice the number of voters who came out to vote in the 2004 primary. Most of the voters in Florida fully expect that their votes will not be wasted again -- they (expect) to have a voice at the convention, and Hillary has asked her delegates to support their being seated."
Penn omitted any mention of labor union organizing for Clinton in Florida, which could be construed as a violation of the no-campaigning pledge. In contrast, Obama did not use major surrogates in the state. While no campaign can control all of its supporters, candidate Obama stayed away.
Such finessing of the nominating process was not Clinton's first attempt to win delegates with the help of state party officials. In New Hampshire, Democratic officials helped to block Obama volunteers from observing who signed in to vote at precincts -- thwarting their get-out-the-vote efforts. In Nevada, party officials turned away blue-collar voters at precincts in Las Vegas casinos that were thought to be Obama strongholds, informing clearly upset voters they had to work an afternoon shift that day to participate. Clinton's campaign also gave out a manual telling precinct captains to lock caucus doors a half-hour early. Obama's campaign formally complained to party officials.
But the Clinton campaign does more than bend the rules. It also knows how to distort the results to declare it is en route to winning the nomination. In Nevada, state party officials announced Clinton won the popular vote among its caucus goers, and the national media duly reported she won the state. But that afternoon, it became clear that Obama actually had won one more delegate than Clinton. There was no correction by party officials. The media mostly reported she won, confusing the popular vote with the delegate count.
The same spinning was used in Florida, where Penn staged a victory rally after the vote -- even though exit polls found voters who had not turned in early ballots were nearly split between Clinton and Obama.
"This result comes after Sen. Obama ran TV commercials that reached Florida homes and after the enormous publicity he received for South Carolina and for the Ted Kennedy endorsement," Penn said in his statement that painted the no-delegate state into a major victory while smearing Obama's gains. "Any (Obama) momentum seemed to run out today."
Seasoned and cynical political observers will say presidential politics is not for anyone who is naïve enough to run purely on principle. They say it is not about being honest; it is about winning. And they say the Democratic nominating contest will be a cakewalk compared to the contest with Republicans in the fall, necessitating a strong and seasoned candidate to retake the presidency.
But the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination is no ordinary contest. Obama is running a principle-based, grass-roots campaign that rejects established and cynical Washington ways of campaigning to win. So far, Obama's appeal to bring out the best in Americans based on shared common interests has been successful in attracting new voters, from young people to independents to Republicans. In short, his run threatens the Democratic careerists who have lined up for Clinton.
Just look at the response in New York to Obama's endorsement by Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., where the local affiliate of the National Organization for Women accused him of "betraying women" by not standing with Clinton. That was an outburst by a longtime Clinton ally who seeks to share in the spoils after her candidate claws her way to victory, by any means necessary.
Hillary Clinton may be the ruthless campaigner that Democrats lacked in the past two presidential elections. Deliberately moving toward the nomination step by step and manipulating the process along the way, she may know what it takes to win. The question raised by the Obama campaign, however, is whether that slippery style of politics is where Democrats -- and Americans -- want to go.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: magus65 on Jan 31, 2008 12:37 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Vote Hitlery if you hate America.
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» RE: Hillary will reduce America to a pile o rubble.
Posted by: bike&fight
» RE: Hillary will reduce America to a pile o rubble.
Posted by: data23
» RE: Hillary will reduce America to a pile o rubble.
Posted by: thealltheone
» Inadmissible!
Posted by: pierrot
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Posted by: samurai on Jan 31, 2008 1:27 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Help
Posted by: joseph_b26
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Posted by: The Debator on Jan 31, 2008 2:32 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I mean really - if they lie and cheat to win the nomination - what makes you think they won't do the same to the American people? They already disenfranchised voters from the democratic process with their lies and tactics.
Anyway, they are playing 'positive' now (no doubt doing all kinds of negative behind the scenes) and if Obama counter-punches for too long they will try and turn it around like he is the negative one (well, they already are trying to do that). So for now, Obama needs to get back on message.
Wouldn't it be dismally disappointing if the first female President was this lady as a role model? Give me a woman who worked her way up, no ex-President husband, with strong values and integrity and the ability to inspire. Now that is a female president worth hanging out for.
PS. did you include in their sins the mailer that went out the day prior to the New Hampshire vote that made false allegations about Obama's pro-choice position? Polls wrong? Hidden racism? Hillary's tears? Nah - lies that people fell for and it was too late to clear it up.
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Posted by: g50 on Jan 31, 2008 2:36 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But it is clear to me now that Hillary's relationship to the public is that of an abuser to the abused, where we have to put up with her BS, she never admits to the clear concerns we have, she is deliberately dishonest about her actions, and she constantly disrespects our intelligence and integrity with a condescending and uncharitable attitude.
At this point, her campaign is basically assaulting the electorate with every available weapon in the modern political arsenal. Which is exactly what the Bush team did.
Not to mention her divisiveness has probably paralyzed Democrats so much so that we will succeed in grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory.
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Posted by: Wessex on Jan 31, 2008 4:30 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is too full o' the milk of human kindness
To catch the nearest way.
Now that the last vestige of real Democrats is gone...
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Posted by: rwmk12 on Jan 31, 2008 4:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: davescott on Jan 31, 2008 5:24 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Ya want to hear a sermon, find a church.
Posted by: C-Dawg Blake
» RE: Ya want to hear a sermon, find a church.
Posted by: Magginkat
» RE: Ya want to hear a sermon, find a church.
Posted by: thealltheone
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Posted by: Urstrly on Jan 31, 2008 5:36 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like many, I fear that the election of Hillary Clinton to the presidency will result in the same morning-after sickness I felt with the Democrats "won" Congress in 2006. What's the point of power if you don't use it to repair the transgressions committed by your opponents?
The Clintons have the Democratic game down, and Obama promises to change it. Whether he can succeed will depend on how many new voters enter the process; the rank and file seems to have signed on for Hillary. Progressives had better get serious about registering new voters and making sure that registration sticks at the polls. I don't want to wake up in November 2008 and feel the election was stolen--by anyone.
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Posted by: cboldon on Jan 31, 2008 6:04 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Vote Hillary...
Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: Hillary is Bill, Bill is Hillary
Posted by: laurababy0105
» RE: Hillary is Bill, Bill is Hillary
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: Vote Hillary...
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: embennett65 on Jan 31, 2008 6:08 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And what "spoils" would NOW be sharing in if Clinton took the White House? I know, us catty women should just be quiet and stop "clawing" our way toward safeguards for reproductive rights and equal pay for equal work.
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» RE: irked
Posted by: El Hombre Malo
» RE: irked
Posted by: Raina Dale
» RE: irked
Posted by:
» RE: irked
Posted by: jmooney
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Posted by: quinndiesel on Jan 31, 2008 6:21 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: KAEL on Jan 31, 2008 6:25 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: KAEL
Posted by: BCcovers
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Posted by: QCao009 on Jan 31, 2008 6:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. The two parties are indeed quite different on the trail. As disastrous and as immoral as this Administration has been for our country and for the world, it is sacrilegious for any Republican to dare say so, including Ron Paul. And so, the once abused and dissed has now become the annointed and we have lemmings tripping all over each other on the podium and falling in line for another mission accomplished, play up the fear act. On the other hand, the other party allows room for discussion and for differences and so the media plays up the chaos factor since there's no hierarchy, no scripted mantra, no one savior and the mainstream press calls it disorganization and dissension.
2. It's interesting to see Alternet and the blogosphere now become THE VOICE and so instead of the corporate-owned mainstream media now setting the standard, a new line of thought is coopted and spun into oblivion. After a while there is little difference left once a "news" item appears on dailykos, because the line is spun the next day on CNN and MSNBC. It just leaves real spinners like FOX all confused and sputtered because once again, their niche has been taken over. How do we tell the difference with Kristol next to Dowd in the Times and Bennett next to Brazile on CNN ? Black and white have become intermingled and after a while, the average American is led to the shopping mall while his job is being outsourced and his car and house repossessed. And yet candidates continue to sell hope as if ice cream will not melt in the heat of these mean streets.
3. We are a hopeful people but we also are a nation of amnesiacs and slow learners. Our "non-activist" Court gave 43 one term and then we the people gave him another without remembering the disastrous term for 41 and sainthood for 40. We are all ready now to buy into another love potion number 9 just because it will dull our pain. Pull the lever and go back to sleep, we have been promised by our candidates and our free press.
In the final outcome, we pride ourselves so much for knowing this democracy business. Are we any better than the fingerpainted Iraquis, whose country we have managed to turn to shambles to assuage our fear of "not fighting the terrorists here"? In the final outcome, if it is all about courage, our own personal courage, will we allow Dick Cheney and George Bush who never served a day to convince us of their courage? Are we that naive?
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» RE: Quan
Posted by: Knot_Rich
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Posted by: left-leaning-libertarian on Jan 31, 2008 7:14 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As for Bill and Hillary; I have lost all respect for them in the space of six weeks. The racially-tinged put-downs, the denegrating remarks and outright race baiting are inexcusable! Add to this their very real efforts to suppress voter turnout (I thought the GOP had a monopoly on that filthy, un-American game!) and the picture becomes alarmingly clear.
For all the good things she has done or tried to do, Hillary has shown us a pettiness and a lack of moral courage that feeds the stereotypes of the "vast rightwing conspiracy" she once derided. She comes off as little more than a spoiled princess with a pornographically-over-developed sense of entitlement and I will have none of her.
At least with Obama there's a slim chance that things might change for the better.
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» RE: Now that Edwards is out. . .
Posted by: bbfmail
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Posted by: cognitorex on Jan 31, 2008 7:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.
When we awake in early November, McCain having lost to Obama and both the Senate and House firmly Democratic we need give thanks to the prime mover of these events.
Ralph Nader declared that there was no discernible choice between the parties and personally engineered eight venal years of 'win at all cost' Republican rule.
That right versus wrong and ethics and honor are being aired as themes of action today rather than lip service parodies is the direct result of Mr. Nader's bringing us the myriad Gonzales, Rove, DeLay cross wearing blood suckers.
Ralph changed the discourse whether Bill/Hill noticed or not.
It's about hope now although my fingers are crossed in a death lock hoping that sufficient courage will materialize to make the rhetoric real.
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» Get off Ralph!
Posted by: jmooney
» RE: BULLSHIT - IT WAS INDEED NADER'S FAULT
Posted by: jmp3954
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Posted by: SackofWoe0 on Jan 31, 2008 7:19 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Back off of Hillary
Posted by: laurababy0105
» RE: Back off of Hillary
Posted by: thealltheone
» No
Posted by: Sil
» RE: Back off of Hillary
Posted by: VZEQICVA
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bobzcohen on Jan 31, 2008 7:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Hillary a leftist?
Posted by:
» Where was all this before?
Posted by: nherkowitz
» RE: Hillary a leftist?
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Hillary a leftist?
Posted by: jmp3954
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Posted by: lowdowndog on Jan 31, 2008 7:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Voters count
Posted by: Magginkat
» RE: Voters count
Posted by:
» RE: Voters count (correct)
Posted by: jmooney
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Posted by: lowdowndog on Jan 31, 2008 7:51 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: By the way
Posted by: Magginkat
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Posted by: tirebiter on Jan 31, 2008 7:53 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Jan 31, 2008 8:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So I'll get this ball rolling. Here's some truth;
Saddam,the Taliban,Bin Ladin were all puppets of this government back in the 1980's.
Iran was our 'friend' in the 1970's.
Our rights under the Constitution and the Bill of Rights was secretly watered down to almost nothing while America was glued to the O.J. trial.
Bush 1 stole money from Social Security to end 18% interest rates. There was never a cost of living increase for SSD and SSI recipients during all of the Bush 1 administration.
This government is the biggest importer and distributer of 'hard drugs' and has been since before the Vietnam War.
9/11 was a collusion of many forces including our own government dating back to the first WTC 'attack' during Bush 1.
The Iraq War is and always has been a Bush Family vendetta, an act of revenge for Saddam using the Chem weapons we sold him on targets Saddam chose and not just the ones we chose for him,the Iranians.
By it's poor emmissions policies the government is allowing big business to poison all of us for generations to come. Why? Big business OWNS our government.
If we want a true nation back we need someone who will stand before the world,admit the mistakes made and insure the perps get prison terms and not elected terms.
Draft Jeffrey7 for Prez '08
www.youtube.com/RevJeffrey7
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» Get your Facts Straight
Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: Get your Eyes Opened
Posted by: jeffrey7
» RE: Get your Eyes Opened
Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: Get your Eyes Opened
Posted by: jeffrey7
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SunDog on Jan 31, 2008 8:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» I agree with Jane...
Posted by: jmooney
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Posted by: BayAreaVoter on Jan 31, 2008 8:43 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Democrats are in the minority in the Florida state govt and the Republican governor and state legislature pushed thru the early primary date. So why did the DNC punish the voters of Florida? Florida looks more like the rest of the country than Iowa or N Hampshire.
And you can bet that if BO had won the primary and with those huge numbers no one would have said he shouldn't have gone down there AFTER the polls closed. And he did run national tv and cable ads like other people have stated.
Hillary was joined on stage at the winning rally by some great democrats: Debbie Wasserman-Shultz, Alcee Hastings, a Florida mayor and Sen Ben Nelson. THEY obviously thought it was a meaningful win. More democrats voted in Florida than in N Hampshire, Nevada, Iowa and S Carolina combined. So, yes, it was a big win.
And why shouldn't she be there to thank the people on the ground who helped make it happen?
Obama, as usual, acts like a baby when things don't go his way.
And Alternet, like the rest of the media, bashes Hillary as ruthless over nothing.
Keep writing negative headlines like this one and you will see a huge backlash from Hillary voters who are sick of the unfair treatment by the msm and left media. I'm doing all I can to help get Hillary elected.
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» RE: Isn't Ruthless a Bit Extreme?
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Isn't Ruthless a Bit Extreme?
Posted by: nomomorons
» RE: Isn't Ruthless a Bit Extreme?
Posted by: bbfmail
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Jan 31, 2008 9:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: solrev on Jan 31, 2008 9:18 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The intangibles for Romney are few; in a poor economy, you need a good businessman like me. As for everything else “if I knew then what I know now, I would not have been for it before I was against it”. The repuks are trying to redefine themselves after the Bush delusion, and there is a core there someplace but Romney will just not fit the bill. He appeals to the white male manager types, personally I would prefer Richardson as manager. I do not think even with all his money he can survive. If he is such a good businessman maybe he should not waste his money.
The intangibles for McCain are great. He already solidified the hero dogs of war Giulis, which was easily predictable in the beginning. The best is that McCain and Huckabee are running a tag team match. The whole southeast is Baptist land. Huckabee will win some and thump Romney in the rest. Eventually he will throw his support to McCain, and it is better than even money he will get to be the running mate. An old dog and a Baptist dog of war have to be better than that evangelical dog of war.
The intangibles for Clinton at first glance with such high negs, seems like an oxymoron. However the kid is the greatest politician I have ever seen, he can only be a plus. If you want to secure the gender vote make the vote about race, slickwilly at it again. Change goes with the turf in this election and benefits both demons; money is also about equal. Name recognition and a repuk movement to make her the match up is on her side. The old white power structure of the party is backing her no matter what Kennedy says.
The intangibles for Obama out side the media circus are really slim. The I have a dream machine is generating a lot of support from the young and that can’t be all bad, kind of reminds me of the dreams of the sixties. The black vote seems to be aligning with him, but the gender trade off minimizes this.
The demons self-destruct in the national velvet race. Clinton wins but the black vote backlashes and stays home. The disillusionment of youth and they go party. The mamas and the papas are not enough. The repuk tag team wins by a narrow margin.
The trickster, slickwilly rides again, make it a tag team match. The black south against the Baptist south, the mamas and the papas and the babes against the dogs of war, and most important of all “the times they are a changin”. Demons win by a landslide.
Issues who cares there is nothing going to change, but ain’t it fun. Place your bet.
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» RE: intangibles you can't see them but they are there
Posted by: jvaljon1
» RE: intangibles you can't see them but they are there
Posted by: nomomorons
» RE: intangibles you can't see them but they are there
Posted by: agathena
» RE: intangibles you can't see them but they are there
Posted by: nomomorons
» RE: The crooks, thieves and LIARS, are leaving?
Posted by: solrev
» what about the tangibles?
Posted by: thealltheone
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Posted by: agathena on Jan 31, 2008 9:59 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do not believe Mr. Rosenfeld would use the word "claws" if writing about a man.
How would that sound?
"Romney claws his way to victory."
Terms like that are very revealing and they destroy any idea that the writer is being objective.
I'm a Canadian which allows me a little perspective and I'm beginning to notice more than a little misogyny creeping into the punditry.
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» RE: "Claws her way to victory"?
Posted by: jeffrey7
» RE: "Claws her way to victory"?
Posted by: agathena
» RE: "Claws her way to victory"?
Posted by: chadster
» RE: "Claws her way to victory"?
Posted by: thealltheone
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jarbyus on Jan 31, 2008 10:16 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: nomomorons on Jan 31, 2008 10:26 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kindly stop this nonsense that she is the one to represent womanhood; that would have been Ann Richards, and Hillary is no Ann Richards! We'll have to wait for another one like Ann. In the meantime, Obama is the best candidate to work for the issues that matter to women.
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» RE: Love your mother; vote Obama
Posted by: agathena
» RE: Love your mother; vote Obama
Posted by: thealltheone
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Posted by: sleepingdog on Jan 31, 2008 10:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have a good feeling that Edwards dropped out to allow the two to have a race, instead of going for a brokerage at the convention and maybe scoring the Veep slot, just to see if Obama can do better with the Dem voting base and bring the party together. He must be sick of the ugly politics. If im right, he will refrain from endorsing anyone and stick to the sidelines for now.
if im wrong he will endorse Hillary and it will all be over soon.
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Posted by: Markson on Jan 31, 2008 11:11 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a (now former) Edwards supporter, but it's astounding how ridiculously transparent it is to deny voters the chance to choose their candidate.
Obama has the least progressive domestic policies and yet he's the one pushed by every corporate press hack possible and now Alternet is in on it. Where the hell were you when Edwards was being ignored and smeared?
Fuck, we're screwed.
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» RE: Are you kidding me?!
Posted by: agathena
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Posted by: mooseman01 on Jan 31, 2008 11:16 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Get off it! Wuss campaign on "principles only" is a sure step of falling into a Republican.
If Hillary shouldn't bare knuckle it herself I sure hope she hires some tough bare knuckle pals.
These current thugs do not play by the rules, witness the Florida 2004 elections as well as Ohio and elsewhere.
In "the old days" when the bosses hired mafia type thugs to beat up organizers, the ILGWU bought their own muscle.
Whimpering after-the-fact fills newspapers tv and academia briefs while the other guys laugh.
I want Hillary to have every possible weapon at her disposal and the wits and wherewithal to use them.
Remember what Bush did to McCain in 2004, the Swift Boaters and more?
We are not heading for a tea party.
I am certain that most of the electorate will know understand feel and react correctly if they think Hillary or anyone else crosses that invisible line of legal and or moral boundaries to their own taste, not those of pundits and hangers-on.
Why do I think that the Democrats of Boston and Chicago know exactly what is needed and how to get it?
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Posted by: NotNeoCon on Jan 31, 2008 11:27 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: for g50
Posted by: thealltheone
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Posted by: JacklynD on Jan 31, 2008 11:44 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Hillary's Ruthless Campaign??? You Bet !!!
Posted by: gazooks
» RE: Hillary's Ruthless Campaign??? You Bet !!!
Posted by: JacklynD
» RE: Hillary's Ruthless Campaign??? You Bet !!!
Posted by: g50
Comments are closed-
Posted by: commonsensepoliticstoday on Jan 31, 2008 12:23 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When Obama came along, though, I was torn. I ultimately decided to support him because I thought he was a superior candidate for the issues we face today, but was delighted that I'd have Hillary as an alternative. No biggie on who really won the nomination.
But I saw what happened during this presidential campaign, and I'm truly sorry to say, I've become a Hillary hater. I feel betrayed and manipulated. I witnessed what happened in Nevada -- I was there. The doors closing at 11:30, the instructions by the Hillary campaign to go negative on the other candidates, to do everything short of illegal. The lies on Obama's record, and the rhetoric that changed as polls brought up different issues. And, scariest of all for me, her ruthless campaign to shove race and gender as the choices to be made in this election. Hillary used race and gender, historically the most pernicious, shameful parts of our history, the most divisive of issues, and brought them to the painful forefront of our consciousness -- so she could win.
This is cannibalistic.
As a woman myself, I'm all for a female president, sometime very soon, I hope. But not any woman, and definitely not Hillary.
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» RE: Also a former Clinton enthusiast
Posted by: thealltheone
» NEVER a former Clinton enthusiast
Posted by: nochicagoboys
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Kym525 on Jan 31, 2008 2:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And not because he's black.
I like Hilary and respect her as a strong and passionate leader. I liked her as a first lady because she stood up and tried to enact change, such as universal health care--and as I recall was dragged through the mud for it. However, I have been disillusioned by her support for Bush's warmongering. I truly thought she would have done the right thing and taken him to the mat for it.
I don't know how many times so-called feminists try to bully other feminists into going along with their agenda by playing "who's more feminist than thou". I am disgusted by NOW's idiotic op-ed piece castigating Ted Kennedy because he lacks a uterus. Hmm, Ann Coulter once said that she didn't think women should have ever had the right to vote. Phyllis Schafly of the Eagle Forum helped to defeat the Equal Rights Amendment (in case you don't remember). We have "surrendered wives" who think giving all control to their husbands isn't a bad thing. Having a pair of breasts and a vagina doesn't automatically mean all women have each other's best interests at heart.
What really bothers me is when these so-called "feminists" always try to make gender more important than race. They always harp on the fact that black men had the right to vote before women. Well ladies, just in case you were too busy putting on your lipstick or ogling the star quarterback to pay attention in history class, black men only had the right to vote IN THEORY. In practice there were poll taxes, literacy tests and serious voter intimidation courtesy of the Knights of the Klu Klux Klan which included getting beaten or killed for even attempting to cast a ballot. So actually, black PEOPLE didn't get the right to vote until the late 1960's with the Voting Rights Act--several decades AFTER the 19th Amendment. And the Voting Rights Act is still not firmly encoded into law, as all the voter fraud in 2000 and 2004 proved.
Obama doesn't have all the experience that Hilary has, true. But he does have hope and he does have as much passion and drive. It's time we turned the page on so-called "experience" and go with someone who will bring a new dialogue to the political process.
Obama '08. 'Nuff said.
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» RE: Women Don't Have to Support Hilary
Posted by: JacklynD
» RE: Women Don't Have to Support Hilary
Posted by: g50
» RE: Women Don't Have to Support Hilary
Posted by: Kym525
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pagebike on Jan 31, 2008 3:08 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Obama's Principles?
Posted by: agathena
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Landbaron on Jan 31, 2008 3:50 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Now that Edwards is out...
Posted by: g50
» RE: Now that Edwards is out...
Posted by: Landbaron
» caution republican children playing here....
Posted by: thealltheone
» RE: caution republican children playing here....
Posted by: Landbaron
» RE: Now that Edwards is out...
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Now that Edwards is out...
Posted by: Landbaron
Comments are closed-
Posted by: allyourbasearebelongtous on Jan 31, 2008 5:04 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: winning? we don't need no stinkin' winning
Posted by: Sum Won
Comments are closed-
Posted by: RobNLA on Jan 31, 2008 7:12 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1)Her voting record. There is very little difference between Clinton's voting record and a typical Republican voting record. The Iraq War comes to mind, as does the recent vote to label the Iranian Guard as a terrorist group. She would never get this country out of war and it's the cost of this war in lives and dollars that is kicking this country when it's down.
2)Her reprehensible tactics. Her campaign has been pulling some shady things. Clinton has looked the other way while her backers have attempted to suppress votes, so she really has no respect for Democracy in the US. I don't care what party you are a member of, you suppress votes and you won't get mine...period.
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Posted by: carsoncitygal on Jan 31, 2008 7:50 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just because Obama has allowed race to be a point of discussion from his campaign, does not mean he's trying to use it as a wedge to polarize the electorate for temporary tactical gain. He's black. He can't not talk about it. Especially in a very black state.
Hillary, however, will stop at nothing to gain the nomination. She will destroy careers, devastate her party, leave nothing but scorched earth behind her, but she WILL WIN. Race-baiting in the south is just another tactic in her bag of options, and she has no moral reservation about using it, if she thinks it will give her any advantage whatsoever.
Hillary is channeling Karl Rove.
The more under duress Hillary is in this election, the more brazenly vile will be her tactics.
The Clintons were race-baiting their asses off, desperate to stave off the embarrassment which they actually exacerbated in South Carolina. Likening Obama to Jesse Jackson was patently inexcusable, and has blown up in the Clinton's faces.
Hopefully, the backlash will result in even more devastating defeats for Hillary tomorrow.
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Posted by: stargazer7 on Jan 31, 2008 8:15 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: stargazer7
Posted by: g50
» RE: stargazer7
Posted by: Knot_Rich
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Posted by: gerardhsd on Feb 1, 2008 6:30 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Ian MacLeod on Feb 2, 2008 11:18 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look up the book on Amazon; you can buy it used for less than a buck.
Ian
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Posted by: desidid on Feb 3, 2008 12:58 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Is it true she supports wage garnishment for health care?
Posted by: Landbaron
Comments are closed-
Posted by: magus65 on Jan 31, 2008 12:37 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Vote Hitlery if you hate America.
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» RE: Hillary will reduce America to a pile o rubble.
Posted by: bike&fight
» RE: Hillary will reduce America to a pile o rubble.
Posted by: data23
» RE: Hillary will reduce America to a pile o rubble.
Posted by: thealltheone
» Inadmissible!
Posted by: pierrot
Comments are closed-
Posted by: samurai on Jan 31, 2008 1:27 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Help
Posted by: joseph_b26
Comments are closed-
Posted by: The Debator on Jan 31, 2008 2:32 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I mean really - if they lie and cheat to win the nomination - what makes you think they won't do the same to the American people? They already disenfranchised voters from the democratic process with their lies and tactics.
Anyway, they are playing 'positive' now (no doubt doing all kinds of negative behind the scenes) and if Obama counter-punches for too long they will try and turn it around like he is the negative one (well, they already are trying to do that). So for now, Obama needs to get back on message.
Wouldn't it be dismally disappointing if the first female President was this lady as a role model? Give me a woman who worked her way up, no ex-President husband, with strong values and integrity and the ability to inspire. Now that is a female president worth hanging out for.
PS. did you include in their sins the mailer that went out the day prior to the New Hampshire vote that made false allegations about Obama's pro-choice position? Polls wrong? Hidden racism? Hillary's tears? Nah - lies that people fell for and it was too late to clear it up.
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Posted by: g50 on Jan 31, 2008 2:36 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But it is clear to me now that Hillary's relationship to the public is that of an abuser to the abused, where we have to put up with her BS, she never admits to the clear concerns we have, she is deliberately dishonest about her actions, and she constantly disrespects our intelligence and integrity with a condescending and uncharitable attitude.
At this point, her campaign is basically assaulting the electorate with every available weapon in the modern political arsenal. Which is exactly what the Bush team did.
Not to mention her divisiveness has probably paralyzed Democrats so much so that we will succeed in grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory.
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Posted by: Wessex on Jan 31, 2008 4:30 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is too full o' the milk of human kindness
To catch the nearest way.
Now that the last vestige of real Democrats is gone...
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Posted by: rwmk12 on Jan 31, 2008 4:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: davescott on Jan 31, 2008 5:24 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Ya want to hear a sermon, find a church.
Posted by: C-Dawg Blake
» RE: Ya want to hear a sermon, find a church.
Posted by: Magginkat
» RE: Ya want to hear a sermon, find a church.
Posted by: thealltheone
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Urstrly on Jan 31, 2008 5:36 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like many, I fear that the election of Hillary Clinton to the presidency will result in the same morning-after sickness I felt with the Democrats "won" Congress in 2006. What's the point of power if you don't use it to repair the transgressions committed by your opponents?
The Clintons have the Democratic game down, and Obama promises to change it. Whether he can succeed will depend on how many new voters enter the process; the rank and file seems to have signed on for Hillary. Progressives had better get serious about registering new voters and making sure that registration sticks at the polls. I don't want to wake up in November 2008 and feel the election was stolen--by anyone.
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Posted by: cboldon on Jan 31, 2008 6:04 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Vote Hillary...
Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: Hillary is Bill, Bill is Hillary
Posted by: laurababy0105
» RE: Hillary is Bill, Bill is Hillary
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: Vote Hillary...
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: embennett65 on Jan 31, 2008 6:08 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And what "spoils" would NOW be sharing in if Clinton took the White House? I know, us catty women should just be quiet and stop "clawing" our way toward safeguards for reproductive rights and equal pay for equal work.
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» RE: irked
Posted by: El Hombre Malo
» RE: irked
Posted by: Raina Dale
» RE: irked
Posted by:
» RE: irked
Posted by: jmooney
Comments are closed-
Posted by: quinndiesel on Jan 31, 2008 6:21 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: KAEL on Jan 31, 2008 6:25 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: KAEL
Posted by: BCcovers
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Posted by: QCao009 on Jan 31, 2008 6:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. The two parties are indeed quite different on the trail. As disastrous and as immoral as this Administration has been for our country and for the world, it is sacrilegious for any Republican to dare say so, including Ron Paul. And so, the once abused and dissed has now become the annointed and we have lemmings tripping all over each other on the podium and falling in line for another mission accomplished, play up the fear act. On the other hand, the other party allows room for discussion and for differences and so the media plays up the chaos factor since there's no hierarchy, no scripted mantra, no one savior and the mainstream press calls it disorganization and dissension.
2. It's interesting to see Alternet and the blogosphere now become THE VOICE and so instead of the corporate-owned mainstream media now setting the standard, a new line of thought is coopted and spun into oblivion. After a while there is little difference left once a "news" item appears on dailykos, because the line is spun the next day on CNN and MSNBC. It just leaves real spinners like FOX all confused and sputtered because once again, their niche has been taken over. How do we tell the difference with Kristol next to Dowd in the Times and Bennett next to Brazile on CNN ? Black and white have become intermingled and after a while, the average American is led to the shopping mall while his job is being outsourced and his car and house repossessed. And yet candidates continue to sell hope as if ice cream will not melt in the heat of these mean streets.
3. We are a hopeful people but we also are a nation of amnesiacs and slow learners. Our "non-activist" Court gave 43 one term and then we the people gave him another without remembering the disastrous term for 41 and sainthood for 40. We are all ready now to buy into another love potion number 9 just because it will dull our pain. Pull the lever and go back to sleep, we have been promised by our candidates and our free press.
In the final outcome, we pride ourselves so much for knowing this democracy business. Are we any better than the fingerpainted Iraquis, whose country we have managed to turn to shambles to assuage our fear of "not fighting the terrorists here"? In the final outcome, if it is all about courage, our own personal courage, will we allow Dick Cheney and George Bush who never served a day to convince us of their courage? Are we that naive?
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» RE: Quan
Posted by: Knot_Rich
Comments are closed-
Posted by: left-leaning-libertarian on Jan 31, 2008 7:14 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As for Bill and Hillary; I have lost all respect for them in the space of six weeks. The racially-tinged put-downs, the denegrating remarks and outright race baiting are inexcusable! Add to this their very real efforts to suppress voter turnout (I thought the GOP had a monopoly on that filthy, un-American game!) and the picture becomes alarmingly clear.
For all the good things she has done or tried to do, Hillary has shown us a pettiness and a lack of moral courage that feeds the stereotypes of the "vast rightwing conspiracy" she once derided. She comes off as little more than a spoiled princess with a pornographically-over-developed sense of entitlement and I will have none of her.
At least with Obama there's a slim chance that things might change for the better.
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» RE: Now that Edwards is out. . .
Posted by: bbfmail
Comments are closed-
Posted by: cognitorex on Jan 31, 2008 7:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.
When we awake in early November, McCain having lost to Obama and both the Senate and House firmly Democratic we need give thanks to the prime mover of these events.
Ralph Nader declared that there was no discernible choice between the parties and personally engineered eight venal years of 'win at all cost' Republican rule.
That right versus wrong and ethics and honor are being aired as themes of action today rather than lip service parodies is the direct result of Mr. Nader's bringing us the myriad Gonzales, Rove, DeLay cross wearing blood suckers.
Ralph changed the discourse whether Bill/Hill noticed or not.
It's about hope now although my fingers are crossed in a death lock hoping that sufficient courage will materialize to make the rhetoric real.
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» Get off Ralph!
Posted by: jmooney
» RE: BULLSHIT - IT WAS INDEED NADER'S FAULT
Posted by: jmp3954
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SackofWoe0 on Jan 31, 2008 7:19 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Back off of Hillary
Posted by: laurababy0105
» RE: Back off of Hillary
Posted by: thealltheone
» No
Posted by: Sil
» RE: Back off of Hillary
Posted by: VZEQICVA
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bobzcohen on Jan 31, 2008 7:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Hillary a leftist?
Posted by:
» Where was all this before?
Posted by: nherkowitz
» RE: Hillary a leftist?
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Hillary a leftist?
Posted by: jmp3954
Comments are closed-
Posted by: lowdowndog on Jan 31, 2008 7:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Voters count
Posted by: Magginkat
» RE: Voters count
Posted by:
» RE: Voters count (correct)
Posted by: jmooney
Comments are closed-
Posted by: lowdowndog on Jan 31, 2008 7:51 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: By the way
Posted by: Magginkat
Comments are closed-
Posted by: tirebiter on Jan 31, 2008 7:53 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Jan 31, 2008 8:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So I'll get this ball rolling. Here's some truth;
Saddam,the Taliban,Bin Ladin were all puppets of this government back in the 1980's.
Iran was our 'friend' in the 1970's.
Our rights under the Constitution and the Bill of Rights was secretly watered down to almost nothing while America was glued to the O.J. trial.
Bush 1 stole money from Social Security to end 18% interest rates. There was never a cost of living increase for SSD and SSI recipients during all of the Bush 1 administration.
This government is the biggest importer and distributer of 'hard drugs' and has been since before the Vietnam War.
9/11 was a collusion of many forces including our own government dating back to the first WTC 'attack' during Bush 1.
The Iraq War is and always has been a Bush Family vendetta, an act of revenge for Saddam using the Chem weapons we sold him on targets Saddam chose and not just the ones we chose for him,the Iranians.
By it's poor emmissions policies the government is allowing big business to poison all of us for generations to come. Why? Big business OWNS our government.
If we want a true nation back we need someone who will stand before the world,admit the mistakes made and insure the perps get prison terms and not elected terms.
Draft Jeffrey7 for Prez '08
www.youtube.com/RevJeffrey7
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» Get your Facts Straight
Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: Get your Eyes Opened
Posted by: jeffrey7
» RE: Get your Eyes Opened
Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: Get your Eyes Opened
Posted by: jeffrey7
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SunDog on Jan 31, 2008 8:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» I agree with Jane...
Posted by: jmooney
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BayAreaVoter on Jan 31, 2008 8:43 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Democrats are in the minority in the Florida state govt and the Republican governor and state legislature pushed thru the early primary date. So why did the DNC punish the voters of Florida? Florida looks more like the rest of the country than Iowa or N Hampshire.
And you can bet that if BO had won the primary and with those huge numbers no one would have said he shouldn't have gone down there AFTER the polls closed. And he did run national tv and cable ads like other people have stated.
Hillary was joined on stage at the winning rally by some great democrats: Debbie Wasserman-Shultz, Alcee Hastings, a Florida mayor and Sen Ben Nelson. THEY obviously thought it was a meaningful win. More democrats voted in Florida than in N Hampshire, Nevada, Iowa and S Carolina combined. So, yes, it was a big win.
And why shouldn't she be there to thank the people on the ground who helped make it happen?
Obama, as usual, acts like a baby when things don't go his way.
And Alternet, like the rest of the media, bashes Hillary as ruthless over nothing.
Keep writing negative headlines like this one and you will see a huge backlash from Hillary voters who are sick of the unfair treatment by the msm and left media. I'm doing all I can to help get Hillary elected.
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» RE: Isn't Ruthless a Bit Extreme?
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Isn't Ruthless a Bit Extreme?
Posted by: nomomorons
» RE: Isn't Ruthless a Bit Extreme?
Posted by: bbfmail
Comments are closed-
Posted by: monkeywrench on Jan 31, 2008 9:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: solrev on Jan 31, 2008 9:18 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The intangibles for Romney are few; in a poor economy, you need a good businessman like me. As for everything else “if I knew then what I know now, I would not have been for it before I was against it”. The repuks are trying to redefine themselves after the Bush delusion, and there is a core there someplace but Romney will just not fit the bill. He appeals to the white male manager types, personally I would prefer Richardson as manager. I do not think even with all his money he can survive. If he is such a good businessman maybe he should not waste his money.
The intangibles for McCain are great. He already solidified the hero dogs of war Giulis, which was easily predictable in the beginning. The best is that McCain and Huckabee are running a tag team match. The whole southeast is Baptist land. Huckabee will win some and thump Romney in the rest. Eventually he will throw his support to McCain, and it is better than even money he will get to be the running mate. An old dog and a Baptist dog of war have to be better than that evangelical dog of war.
The intangibles for Clinton at first glance with such high negs, seems like an oxymoron. However the kid is the greatest politician I have ever seen, he can only be a plus. If you want to secure the gender vote make the vote about race, slickwilly at it again. Change goes with the turf in this election and benefits both demons; money is also about equal. Name recognition and a repuk movement to make her the match up is on her side. The old white power structure of the party is backing her no matter what Kennedy says.
The intangibles for Obama out side the media circus are really slim. The I have a dream machine is generating a lot of support from the young and that can’t be all bad, kind of reminds me of the dreams of the sixties. The black vote seems to be aligning with him, but the gender trade off minimizes this.
The demons self-destruct in the national velvet race. Clinton wins but the black vote backlashes and stays home. The disillusionment of youth and they go party. The mamas and the papas are not enough. The repuk tag team wins by a narrow margin.
The trickster, slickwilly rides again, make it a tag team match. The black south against the Baptist south, the mamas and the papas and the babes against the dogs of war, and most important of all “the times they are a changin”. Demons win by a landslide.
Issues who cares there is nothing going to change, but ain’t it fun. Place your bet.
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» RE: intangibles you can't see them but they are there
Posted by: jvaljon1
» RE: intangibles you can't see them but they are there
Posted by: nomomorons
» RE: intangibles you can't see them but they are there
Posted by: agathena
» RE: intangibles you can't see them but they are there
Posted by: nomomorons
» RE: The crooks, thieves and LIARS, are leaving?
Posted by: solrev
» what about the tangibles?
Posted by: thealltheone
Comments are closed-
Posted by: agathena on Jan 31, 2008 9:59 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do not believe Mr. Rosenfeld would use the word "claws" if writing about a man.
How would that sound?
"Romney claws his way to victory."
Terms like that are very revealing and they destroy any idea that the writer is being objective.
I'm a Canadian which allows me a little perspective and I'm beginning to notice more than a little misogyny creeping into the punditry.
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» RE: "Claws her way to victory"?
Posted by: jeffrey7
» RE: "Claws her way to victory"?
Posted by: agathena
» RE: "Claws her way to victory"?
Posted by: chadster
» RE: "Claws her way to victory"?
Posted by: thealltheone
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jarbyus on Jan 31, 2008 10:16 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: nomomorons on Jan 31, 2008 10:26 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kindly stop this nonsense that she is the one to represent womanhood; that would have been Ann Richards, and Hillary is no Ann Richards! We'll have to wait for another one like Ann. In the meantime, Obama is the best candidate to work for the issues that matter to women.
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» RE: Love your mother; vote Obama
Posted by: agathena
» RE: Love your mother; vote Obama
Posted by: thealltheone
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sleepingdog on Jan 31, 2008 10:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have a good feeling that Edwards dropped out to allow the two to have a race, instead of going for a brokerage at the convention and maybe scoring the Veep slot, just to see if Obama can do better with the Dem voting base and bring the party together. He must be sick of the ugly politics. If im right, he will refrain from endorsing anyone and stick to the sidelines for now.
if im wrong he will endorse Hillary and it will all be over soon.
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Posted by: Markson on Jan 31, 2008 11:11 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a (now former) Edwards supporter, but it's astounding how ridiculously transparent it is to deny voters the chance to choose their candidate.
Obama has the least progressive domestic policies and yet he's the one pushed by every corporate press hack possible and now Alternet is in on it. Where the hell were you when Edwards was being ignored and smeared?
Fuck, we're screwed.
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» RE: Are you kidding me?!
Posted by: agathena
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Posted by: mooseman01 on Jan 31, 2008 11:16 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Get off it! Wuss campaign on "principles only" is a sure step of falling into a Republican.
If Hillary shouldn't bare knuckle it herself I sure hope she hires some tough bare knuckle pals.
These current thugs do not play by the rules, witness the Florida 2004 elections as well as Ohio and elsewhere.
In "the old days" when the bosses hired mafia type thugs to beat up organizers, the ILGWU bought their own muscle.
Whimpering after-the-fact fills newspapers tv and academia briefs while the other guys laugh.
I want Hillary to have every possible weapon at her disposal and the wits and wherewithal to use them.
Remember what Bush did to McCain in 2004, the Swift Boaters and more?
We are not heading for a tea party.
I am certain that most of the electorate will know understand feel and react correctly if they think Hillary or anyone else crosses that invisible line of legal and or moral boundaries to their own taste, not those of pundits and hangers-on.
Why do I think that the Democrats of Boston and Chicago know exactly what is needed and how to get it?
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Posted by: NotNeoCon on Jan 31, 2008 11:27 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: for g50
Posted by: thealltheone
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Posted by: JacklynD on Jan 31, 2008 11:44 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Hillary's Ruthless Campaign??? You Bet !!!
Posted by: gazooks
» RE: Hillary's Ruthless Campaign??? You Bet !!!
Posted by: JacklynD
» RE: Hillary's Ruthless Campaign??? You Bet !!!
Posted by: g50
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Posted by: commonsensepoliticstoday on Jan 31, 2008 12:23 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When Obama came along, though, I was torn. I ultimately decided to support him because I thought he was a superior candidate for the issues we face today, but was delighted that I'd have Hillary as an alternative. No biggie on who really won the nomination.
But I saw what happened during this presidential campaign, and I'm truly sorry to say, I've become a Hillary hater. I feel betrayed and manipulated. I witnessed what happened in Nevada -- I was there. The doors closing at 11:30, the instructions by the Hillary campaign to go negative on the other candidates, to do everything short of illegal. The lies on Obama's record, and the rhetoric that changed as polls brought up different issues. And, scariest of all for me, her ruthless campaign to shove race and gender as the choices to be made in this election. Hillary used race and gender, historically the most pernicious, shameful parts of our history, the most divisive of issues, and brought them to the painful forefront of our consciousness -- so she could win.
This is cannibalistic.
As a woman myself, I'm all for a female president, sometime very soon, I hope. But not any woman, and definitely not Hillary.
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» RE: Also a former Clinton enthusiast
Posted by: thealltheone
» NEVER a former Clinton enthusiast
Posted by: nochicagoboys
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Posted by: Kym525 on Jan 31, 2008 2:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And not because he's black.
I like Hilary and respect her as a strong and passionate leader. I liked her as a first lady because she stood up and tried to enact change, such as universal health care--and as I recall was dragged through the mud for it. However, I have been disillusioned by her support for Bush's warmongering. I truly thought she would have done the right thing and taken him to the mat for it.
I don't know how many times so-called feminists try to bully other feminists into going along with their agenda by playing "who's more feminist than thou". I am disgusted by NOW's idiotic op-ed piece castigating Ted Kennedy because he lacks a uterus. Hmm, Ann Coulter once said that she didn't think women should have ever had the right to vote. Phyllis Schafly of the Eagle Forum helped to defeat the Equal Rights Amendment (in case you don't remember). We have "surrendered wives" who think giving all control to their husbands isn't a bad thing. Having a pair of breasts and a vagina doesn't automatically mean all women have each other's best interests at heart.
What really bothers me is when these so-called "feminists" always try to make gender more important than race. They always harp on the fact that black men had the right to vote before women. Well ladies, just in case you were too busy putting on your lipstick or ogling the star quarterback to pay attention in history class, black men only had the right to vote IN THEORY. In practice there were poll taxes, literacy tests and serious voter intimidation courtesy of the Knights of the Klu Klux Klan which included getting beaten or killed for even attempting to cast a ballot. So actually, black PEOPLE didn't get the right to vote until the late 1960's with the Voting Rights Act--several decades AFTER the 19th Amendment. And the Voting Rights Act is still not firmly encoded into law, as all the voter fraud in 2000 and 2004 proved.
Obama doesn't have all the experience that Hilary has, true. But he does have hope and he does have as much passion and drive. It's time we turned the page on so-called "experience" and go with someone who will bring a new dialogue to the political process.
Obama '08. 'Nuff said.
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» RE: Women Don't Have to Support Hilary
Posted by: JacklynD
» RE: Women Don't Have to Support Hilary
Posted by: g50
» RE: Women Don't Have to Support Hilary
Posted by: Kym525
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Posted by: pagebike on Jan 31, 2008 3:08 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Obama's Principles?
Posted by: agathena
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Posted by: Landbaron on Jan 31, 2008 3:50 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Now that Edwards is out...
Posted by: g50
» RE: Now that Edwards is out...
Posted by: Landbaron
» caution republican children playing here....
Posted by: thealltheone
» RE: caution republican children playing here....
Posted by: Landbaron
» RE: Now that Edwards is out...
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Now that Edwards is out...
Posted by: Landbaron
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Posted by: allyourbasearebelongtous on Jan 31, 2008 5:04 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: winning? we don't need no stinkin' winning
Posted by: Sum Won
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Posted by: RobNLA on Jan 31, 2008 7:12 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1)Her voting record. There is very little difference between Clinton's voting record and a typical Republican voting record. The Iraq War comes to mind, as does the recent vote to label the Iranian Guard as a terrorist group. She would never get this country out of war and it's the cost of this war in lives and dollars that is kicking this country when it's down.
2)Her reprehensible tactics. Her campaign has been pulling some shady things. Clinton has looked the other way while her backers have attempted to suppress votes, so she really has no respect for Democracy in the US. I don't care what party you are a member of, you suppress votes and you won't get mine...period.
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Posted by: carsoncitygal on Jan 31, 2008 7:50 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just because Obama has allowed race to be a point of discussion from his campaign, does not mean he's trying to use it as a wedge to polarize the electorate for temporary tactical gain. He's black. He can't not talk about it. Especially in a very black state.
Hillary, however, will stop at nothing to gain the nomination. She will destroy careers, devastate her party, leave nothing but scorched earth behind her, but she WILL WIN. Race-baiting in the south is just another tactic in her bag of options, and she has no moral reservation about using it, if she thinks it will give her any advantage whatsoever.
Hillary is channeling Karl Rove.
The more under duress Hillary is in this election, the more brazenly vile will be her tactics.
The Clintons were race-baiting their asses off, desperate to stave off the embarrassment which they actually exacerbated in South Carolina. Likening Obama to Jesse Jackson was patently inexcusable, and has blown up in the Clinton's faces.
Hopefully, the backlash will result in even more devastating defeats for Hillary tomorrow.
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Posted by: stargazer7 on Jan 31, 2008 8:15 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: stargazer7
Posted by: g50
» RE: stargazer7
Posted by: Knot_Rich
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Posted by: gerardhsd on Feb 1, 2008 6:30 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Ian MacLeod on Feb 2, 2008 11:18 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look up the book on Amazon; you can buy it used for less than a buck.
Ian
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Posted by: desidid on Feb 3, 2008 12:58 PM
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» RE: Is it true she supports wage garnishment for health care?
Posted by: Landbaron
MoveOn Launches Campaign for Bold Progressive Reforms as the Obama Era Begins
Obama's Promise of Change Comes Wrapped in Red, White and Blue
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