ELECTION 2008  
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 106

Supporting Hillary or Barack? Stop Apologizing for It

It’s time to stop ignoring gender and race as reasons to support a candidate.
January 11, 2008  |  
 
 
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Amid the endless hours discussing emotional "turning points," poor polling, demographics and comebacks, I kept spinning the dial searching for someone to discuss Hillary's own historic moment -- a headline comparable to those for Obama's Iowa win.

I sent a message to Robert Greenwald's live election blog Tuesday evening at Brave New Films.com: Was this the first time a woman had won a presidential primary? No one was quite sure. Had Elizabeth Dole won a primary? someone blogged.

I wondered, why was Obama's win historic and Hillary's simply a comeback? One could argue Obama's "historic moment" is the beginning of a new era of bipartisanship -- where gay couples and evangelicals stroll arm in arm to adopt unwed babies, assist in late-term abortions and bury cynics like me -- but I doubt it.

Let's start with some history.

It turns out Hillary may have the more "historic" win -- if race and gender "firsts" are the yardstick. Technically, Shirley Chisholm takes both "firsts" with a New Jersey primary win in 1972. And Jesse Jackson won five primaries and caucuses in 1984 -- including Virginia, Louisiana and D.C.

On closer inspection, according to Allan Lichtman, professor of history at American University, Chisholm actually won a "nonbinding preference, where no delegates were awarded" against ex-Gov. Terry Sanford. Humphrey, McGovern and Muskie did not compete. As Lichtman put it, "This is the first time in American history a woman won a major contested presidential primary." At the very least, the first time in 36 years a woman had won a primary.

One reason, perhaps, that pundits and the press found Obama's moment so "historical" was that Obama said so: "At this defining moment in history, you have done what the cynics said we couldn't do." The Chicago Times called his win a "historic and decisive victory in the Iowa caucuses." And most other major media followed the "historic" line.

Michael Powell of the New York Times said, "But the moment is suffused, so as almost not to require that he make it explicit, with a sense of historical moment. I, you, we can make history, he says, by turning the nation's sorrowful racial narrative into something radiant and hopeful."

Clearly, Obama's Iowa victory speech was superior and will be remembered and replayed, and Hillary's New Hampshire primary victory speech will not. But this does not fully explain why journalists and pundits are giving such short shrift to Hillary's achievement.

In a country where every time a woman or black who is "first" at something is properly noted, the lack of historical focus on Hillary's first speaks to the difficulty every pundit faces and to the cutesy games everyone -- especially the candidates -- play when it comes to race and gender in this election.

Obama didn't say Martin Luther King was smiling tonight during his "historic" speech. The racial aspect of his historic moment, as Michael Powell notes, is not "explicit" -- but it's there. Oprah didn't just dive into presidential politics solely because of Obama's policies and good looks.

No one admits supporting Hillary because she's a woman or Obama because he's black. They are the best candidates -- of course. But this is often disingenous. After 200-plus years we still can't find a woman or man good enough to run the country? The white guys are all more qualified again? Hillary and Obama are qualified, and no one needs to apologize for wanting a woman or black to finally get a shot. And luckily, this time, they are also both miles ahead of any candidate on the other side.

Part of this historical lapse is linked to anti-Hillary sentiment and liberal discomfort with the Clintons. Paul Krugman pointed out Obama's more conservative tendencies on Social Security and healthcare -- but Hillary didn't get any traction. Hillary is closer to John Edwards' "We have to fight 'em" than Obama's "Let's all be friends" tactical approach on dealing with the right and achieving change -- but Edwards pushes back on Hillary instead.

On Charlie Rose the night of New Hampshire, Arianna Huffington, who certainly has no love lost for Iraq War-authorizing Hillary, pointed out how her win wouldn't take anything away from Obama's historic moment.

Arianna, time to give sister Hillary her due.

As Gloria Steinem pointed out in her New York Times Op-Ed -- gender politics are alive and well in this campaign. The next time Hillary makes history, she just might have to borrow another element from the Obama playbook -- and point it out herself.
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Come Out Of The Closet
Posted by: NoPCZone on Jan 11, 2008 12:39 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you are an Obama or Clintonista, come out of the closet. Living a double life is such a destructive thing to do. It's time to own up to who you really are...

Go down to the court house and tell the county clerk that you wish to change your party registration to the Republicans, because that is what you are supporting.

Look beyond the rhetoric and look at what these candidates stand for and have stood for during their public service when it really counted. If you want to see what a real Democrat looks like, check out Russ Feingold, Dennis Kucinich, Paul Wellstone, Barbara Jordan or any of a long list of others.

I am really tired of DLC DINOs ruining our party and it's chances to advance this nation. It was once said (I think Truman), that given a choice between a real Republican and a fake one, the voters will pick the real one every time.

We have been in the wilderness for a very long time now. Reagan, Bush I, Clinton (a Republican-lite) and now the NeoCon Poster Child Dubya Bush. I want a real choice on election day- not a toss up between two flavors of Republican.

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» I'll pick the fake one Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: Come Out Of The Closet Posted by: NoPCZone

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Is This Supposed to Be a Serious Political Column?
Posted by: LookOut on Jan 11, 2008 1:25 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Next we'll discuss Hillary's hairnet and how tight Obama's triceps are.

Give me a break...

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I'm for change
Posted by: Blink on Jan 11, 2008 4:05 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It doesn't matter what kind of change, because all change is ultimately good. For example, if my employment status changes (I'm fired), that is a good thing, since it forces me to do something different with my life and maybe I didn't deserve that job anyway. Getting cancer is also a form of change, but again, since change is always good, getting cancer is a good thing, because it forces a person to be empathetic and live each day as though it's his last day on earth. Change of any kind is good. Therefore, I support Obama, because Obama is also in favor of change.

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» RE: I'm for change Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: I'm for change Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: I'm for change Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: I'm for change Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: I'm for change Posted by: OldRedleg
» RE: I'm for change Posted by: Axiom69
» RE: I'm for change Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: I'm for change Posted by: Blink
» RE: I'm for change Posted by: nochicagoboys

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how do you reply to an article that doesn't make any sense?
Posted by: Suzon on Jan 11, 2008 4:13 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We aren't living in a democracy any more, are we? Therefore this piece is rubbish.

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concerned citizen
Posted by: skingk on Jan 11, 2008 4:25 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I used to think Edwards was sincere, but then it turns out all three top candidates are members of the Council for Foreign Relations which used to be led by Dick Cheney. So is Kuchinich for that matter. Go to Youtube and search for Aaron Russo video.

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» RE: concerned citizen Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: concerned citizen Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: concerned citizen--Prove this Posted by: militaryhater
» RE: concerned citizen--Prove this Posted by: buddyedgewood

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They don't need to apologize, but they probably should.
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jan 11, 2008 4:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lots of people admit supporting Hillary because she's a woman, and Obama because he's black. And they don't seem to see the irony of voting for someone for those reasons.

They want one of these status-quo, Republican-lite candidates in office for the next 4-8 years just because they think it will be a neat historical moment, and they can pat themselves on the back for promoting "diversity".

Let's see...We've had a female Secretary of State, a black Secretary of State...Remember when progressives thought Pelosi was going to be the new sheriff? How's all that working out for women, and blacks...and the rest of us?

Meanwhile, Ron Paul and Kucinich really want to shake things up (so they say), but they're the wrong color and wrong gender. Sorry, guys. We don't really like the status-quo either, but we wanted to check off a couple of milestones and hear some tear-jerking speeches about historical moments. Maybe next time.

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» Snake oil Posted by: Axiom69

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Get real
Posted by: Julian on Jan 11, 2008 5:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The USA has never been so widely despised as it has over the last seven years – seen by millions as no longer a beacon for freedom as it dismantles its own constitution and as it Blitzkriegs its way into a sovereign country and threatens many others in a quest to sew up resources for its predator classes. Those falling for the diversion into “identity politics” – a diversion which is busily fanned by the bought commentariat (including some of the authors whom Alternet seems so keen to promote) – are moving their country from pathos to bathos and making anti-Americanism the flavour of the month. I am not American and would rather not have to be anti-American – thank heaven for the common sense of so many of those Americans whose comments in forums like this and others like it demand that “identity” navel-gazers get real.

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» RE: Get real Posted by: babs
» RE: Get real Posted by: no1kstate
» RE: Get real Posted by: Julian

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a petty & petulant article
Posted by: illit on Jan 11, 2008 5:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is gender/race/religion a valid reason to vote for/against someone?

Unfortunately issues and the voting history of the leading Dem. candidates show they are nothing more than RepLite.

Sure I'd like a black woman atheist to run and win IF she was capable of extracting us from the miasma we now experience. But what possible difference does gender/race/religion make as long as we are stuck with one corporatist party?

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Just give me a president who stands up for "We the People"
Posted by: nochicagoboys on Jan 11, 2008 5:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Are we ready for the first female president, or the first black president? I'm not sure. But, I am sure we're ready for any president who will stand up for We the People, and stand against corporatism and the idea of corporate-personhood, and will hold the Constitution of the United States sacred over any embodiment of ideas that makes truth, justice, and human rights take a back seat.

We do not want a president, of any race or gender, who derails attempts to have a more perfect union; disregards justice for all; works against achieving domestic tranquility for all; provides for the common defense strictly as a means of aggression against other nations; doesn't promote the general welfare, but collaborates to provide it only for the wealthiest, and most powerful, few; and doesn't strive to secure the blessings of liberty to all present-day Americans along with future generations.

If we can get a president that believes in the ideals as set forth in the Constitution, and cherishes them over any other philosophy, or religious standard, than it doesn't matter what color, or gender, that person is.

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» RE: Terrific post Posted by: luckypuck
» RE: Terrific post Posted by: luckypuck
» RE: Terrific post Posted by: nochicagoboys

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The most historic history-maker?
Posted by: mothersmovement on Jan 11, 2008 6:03 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The main reason Hillary's win in the NH primary feels less historic than Obama's Iowa victory is that Clinton has been running as an incumbent -- her core message is that as a life-long help-mate to Bill Clinton, she's been there, done that and is the only candidate who can get the job done. As Kerry Howley notes in a recent NY Times op-ed ("It Takes A Family To Break The Glass Ceiling," January 5), Hillary's leadership trajectory has tracked the conventional pattern for women who rise to the top of the political heap; she married a man with political ambitions and has actively exploited his popularity in her campaign. There's little doubt that Senator Clinton is a highly qualified candidate and a superb strategist, but from a purely feminist perspective I have a problem with celebrating the political success of a female candidate who might not be a serious contender had she married someone else. Even among Hillary Clinton's generation, ambitious women who graduated at the top of their class and went on to successful careers in law and public service are not exactly a rarity. Yet as Mr. Gill points out, only one has been victorious in an important presidential primary.

Obama, on the other hand, is running on his own merits and experience, and perhaps more significantly, is running as a visionary as well as an accomplished technician. While Mr. Gell suggests that Senator Clinton is more like John Edwards in being a "fighter" rather than a lover, Clinton presents herself as a masterful manipulator who will "turn up the heat" on interest groups who resist her agenda -- an approach that has spectacularly failed to deliver progress for women and working families in the past. I agree with Mr. Gell that voters should stop apologizing for supporting Senator Clinton because they want to see a woman in the White House in their lifetime, and having a viable woman candidate for the presidency is history-making, regardless of how she got there. But I caution against the perception that Senator Clinton is more capable of -- or more committed to -- assuring the advancement of women than Senator Obama or Mr. Edwards simply because of her sex.

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Change is ALWAYS good ???
Posted by: vnzjunk on Jan 11, 2008 6:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I had a boss one time who brought the employees under him into the office and gave us a change is always good speech when he had decided to make some major changes in the work place. Months later, his boss's made big changes to his employment conditions and as he was moping around the workplace I took the opportunity to remind him that indeed 'CHANGE WAS ALWAYS GOOD'. His tune had changed on that subject by then of course.

I guess it depends on whose change we are talking about here

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With comments like,
Posted by: WhuThe?!? on Jan 11, 2008 6:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"They are the best candidates -- of course.", we can just disregard this author. Heellllooooo! Can you say Kucinich? How about Gravel? Even Edwards? Obama and especially that bloody-handed hillary person are NOT the best candidates, just the ones an ignorant populace "thinks" are the best. This whole election is so sickening it makes a true progressive want to just give up in despair. It looks like the best we can hope for in the next 4 years is more of the same.

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thedirtydemocrat
Posted by: Thedirtydemocrat on Jan 11, 2008 6:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I believe Kerry was a detrimental part of Edwards program. Kerry has never got down in the dirt to work with real people. Standing in one place and commanding is not working with people. I think it was great that we now know what is going on. Obama and Kerry are part of the problem. Edwards is the only one for real change.

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WAKE UP!
Posted by: TarryFaster on Jan 11, 2008 7:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WE don't REALLY have any say-so in the elections, anymore! Is everyone, but me, wandering around in an illusion?

Get a dose of reality, here.

And/Or here!

It's the Bilberger Group who decides ... NOT US!

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Immature
Posted by: aberdeen on Jan 11, 2008 8:04 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This author and some of those responding need to grow up. There is no such thing as race at the genetic level; there are no white or black people but rather, people have various shades of skin inbetween these two extremes.

Voting for someone for any reason other than that one believes them to be the best candidate toward the human rights betterment of the world at large, represents the height of immaturity.

Someone needs to be spanked by their mommy.

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Suzanne-Marie
Posted by: Suzanne-Marie on Jan 11, 2008 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Were Hillary a person/woman with a history of truthfulness, rather than a liar, posturer, expedient actress, I might consider her Presidential bid as a virtuous striving...However that is not the case. There is just no way that anyone cannot know that she is a liar of the first order -- always has been, always will be - and, what's more, she thinks the American public is stupid enough not to know. Disgusting. (Witness, for example her "poor little shocked wifey" act, where she actually looked into the American public eye and told us she was just too, too astounded by her man's infidelity ... for one example out of many more serious instances of expedient lies...THAT WAS INSULTING AT LEAST TO EVERY WOMAN in the nation) THERE IS NO WAY SHE IS TRUSTWORTHY IN THE LEAST and she has never shown me anything other than political expediency. Her bid for the Presidency is no exception.

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» RE: Suzanne-Marie Posted by: ktsull

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Reasons to Vote
Posted by: Southern Gal on Jan 11, 2008 8:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am still researching the candidates' positions on issues of importance to me. I believe that we should vote for the candidates that best reflect our own positions. If those issues/positions are represented to your satisfaction equally among the candidates, then I see no problem with voting according to race or gender. I say this while I admit that candidates will say things on the campaign trail that they don't follow through with if elected. There is no doubt in my mind that Clinton, Edwards or Obama will do a better job for this country than any candidate on the Republican side.

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it's not a two person race
Posted by: desertlakes on Jan 11, 2008 8:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am voting for John Edwards. I like Barack Obama, but John Edwards has been at the lead of change for years. He has been fighting for the Environment, for Labor, for poor people, against Health care and Corporate corruption in his main job, when he was in the Senate, and when he ran for President and still now when he has returned to the Presidential campaign. I don't like it that he has been gagged, not just by the corporate press, but by the Progressive media.

Hilary keeps running on the false claim that she is the first woman who has run for President. The Corporate and Progressive media gave no coverage to the run in 2004 of Carol Mosley Brown. She was an ambassador, a Senator, a Professor. She was a Progressive candidate. Who covered her? Gloria Steinam writes an op-ed about how women should vote for Hilary because she is a woman. She did not write an article that in 2004 we should have voted for Carol Mosley Brown--also from Illinois.
I hope that we will as progressive media let everyone have a voice and get their message out.

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bird-ma
Posted by: bird-ma on Jan 11, 2008 8:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The "establishment" media is distracting us from the potential voter fraud that may occur in states where paperless voting is used, including SC. The MSM is beating the point into our brains that the difference in results of the paper count vs electronic (and vs exit polls) was due to Hilary's emotion, or Obama's being black, etc., to distract everyone from the REAL problem, which is a very unsafe election system!

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bird-ma
Posted by: bird-ma on Jan 11, 2008 9:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And then there is, of course, the national ID situation. Today on MSNBC it was reported that the department of Homeland Security is putting forth a bill requiring every U.S. citizen starting with those born before 1964, and then later all those born after 1964, to carry a federal ID! OK, so what happens when you lose that ID, or it's stolen? Do you get put in jail? Wake up, everyone! Between the rigged voting systems, and the national ID, we're rapidly succumbing to the soft fascism that nobody wants to believe is really happening in this country!

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» RE: bird-ma Posted by: Knot_Rich

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How about President Condi Rice?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jan 11, 2008 9:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She has both race and gender on her side, right? She would be twice as progressive as either Obama or Clinton, right?

Or maybe not, huh?

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Either is OK with me
Posted by: deapp on Jan 11, 2008 10:28 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Iowa was a shock to Black America to have a state with a 95% White population vote for a Black man or maybe in their White eyes a Mulatto(half-White man). There was a chance of the dreaded Bradley Poll Effect happening in Iowa as it did in New Hampshire but to the surprise of many not so. Most Blacks are either waiting to see if Whites are truly changed or if they will "Bradley" the race nation wide. Until then Hillary is the choice for most Blacks in a White race conscience society. A White woman has a better chance in winning a nation wide race. But then again has White America Changed?

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» RE: Racists and Sexists tend to vote Republican Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com

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Voters Desperate for Solutions Candidates Offer Soaring Rhetoric
Posted by: BBaumer on Jan 11, 2008 10:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Voters Desperate for Solutions Candidates Offer Soaring Rhetoric
By Steven Wishnia

The Indypendent

linked text

Those reading the roster of the senator’s corporate contributors might view her populist rhetoric skeptically, but it resonated with New Hampshire voters, who gave her the narrow win over Sen. Barack Obama. Democrats around the state almost universally identified their top four issues as ending the Iraq war, healthcare, the environment and global warming, and education, especially the high cost of college and the teach-to-the-test mandates of President Bush’s “No Child Left Behind” program. Clinton supporters often cited the economy as well.

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The Great White Hope
Posted by: BBaumer on Jan 11, 2008 10:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Great White Hope
By Nicholas Powers
The Indypendent

"I need to hope. Exhausted by the left’s fatalism, I sift the euphoria around Barack Obama for something real. Here is a Black man walking in Abraham Lincoln’s footsteps daring us to free ourselves from the racism that slavery left behind."

To read more:
linked text

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What a Choice
Posted by: kk33deg on Jan 11, 2008 10:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It appears that the coalition of the corporate right and the religious right that has done such a suerb job of running the country for the past 26 years (since the coronation of Emperor Reagan) is finally unraveling. It had to happen sooner or later - the corporate right makes too much money from pedaling culture that the religious right objects to, and the religious right has become too successful, so they are now a liability to the business right. We, the electorate, are sort of given the choice of deciding which faction gets to rule. What a priviledge. And luckily the corporate MSM is there to instruct us.

On the Democratic side, we are told that only two corporate right candidates, Obama and Clinton are viable. Not even Edwards is allowable because he has the gaul to complain about corporate greed. If elected, he might even do something about corporate greed. This presents an unacceptable business risk, so he is marginalized by the MSM.

On the Republican side, we are told the only allowable candidates are McCain, Giuliani and Romney. All of these candidates are the corporate right camp as well, although Romney pretends, somewhat feebly, to be a religious right candidate as well, and Giuliani panders to the religious right by obtaining Pat Robertson's endorsement. Ron Paul, who is clearly not in either the corporate right or religious right camp, is not allowable so he is thoroughly marginalized, despite substantial bipartisan support. The only problem is that the religious right grass roots (the only true grass roots movement in the US with any clout whatsoever) is too damn savvy to support Romney, the faux religious right candidate foisted on them by the MSM. Moreover, being primarily made up of Protestant evangelicals, Romney's Mormanism, which most Protestant evangelicals view as heresy, makes him unpalatable. Instead, they are supporting a true religious right candidate, Huckabee, in numbers too large to ignore. If this wasn't bad enough, Huckabee takes a number of positions counter to the corporate right, and even - gasp - has a record of raising taxes to support social programs. The MSM is doing everything in its power to destry Huckabee, and, if necessary, will eventually do to him what it did to Howard Dean in 2004.

So ultimately, we will get to choose between two corporate right candidates in November 2008. I, for one, am so glad that this election is about change.

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Media BUNK
Posted by: militaryhater on Jan 11, 2008 11:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Media is full of Bunk to even predict the final Democrat. Iowa and New Hampshire are 'SMALL' states...small populations. Why should they count so much? The media is trying to force Americans to choose between Hillary and Obama. Remember, the Media is controlled by HUGE RICH Conglomerates that have a lot to lose if their agenda is not maintained. I refuse to vote for Republicans disguised as Democrats. I don't look at gender or race...that is bogus. I look the person, what they say, their actions and what they stand for IF they have the GUTS to spell it out instead of lame words like "CHANGE".

If Edwards doesn't make it, I will NOT VOTE for either of them as it is a VOTE FOR a Republican. I am a DEMOCRAT. There trully isn't a TRUE Democrat in this race now. The NEO-CONS have this election wrapped up no matter what.

The Corporations have been very, very smart and saavy in all of this. They have all their soldiers in a row...Clinton, Obama, Romney, Giuliani, Thompson...
,..they can't lose. They fear Edwards. Edwards doesn't walk their walk or talk their Facist regime. A vote for Edwards is about the closest we are going to get to a TRUE Democrat.

Who cares about Hillary and Obama..only the Corporate controlled MEDIA brainwashing machine does.

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jareilly
Posted by: jareilly on Jan 11, 2008 11:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"They are both miles ahead of any candidate on the other side"? Huh? Miles ahead in what sense? Obama and Edwards poll ahead of or tie with all the repub candidates in a head to head face-off. Clinton polls behind all of them. So much for "experience" and "electability". So they are not both "miles ahead" in popularity. So are they "miles ahead" on political positions? Both have spent the last few years shaking down very rich, very powerful people like Rupert Murdoch, like the CEOs of the war industry and big pharma, like ADM, the multinational grain dealer positioned to clean up with ethanol (in Illinois, home to ADM-sponsored Obama), both have voted for the Patriot Act, both supported some of Bush's most reactionary judicial nominees, both have voted consistently to fund the war, both promise to remain in Iraq almost indefinitely, both want increases in war spending and "homeland security" spending, neither has said anything about the Bush regime's outrageous assault on our most fundamental freedoms, neither will take on the fascistic "unitary executive theory", neither call for an end to pre-emptive war, military aggression, kidnapping and disappearances (extraordinary rendition), torture, or other forms of brutal overseas meddling brought to a crescendo by the Bush Regime, neither has opposed warrantless wiretaps, neither voted or spoke against Jane Harman's frightening new "anti-domestic terrorist" law, and I don't believe either voted against the Military Tribunals Act, which gutted habeus corpus. Certainly neither spoke against it. Both are reflexive supporters of the Israeli right wing

"Miles ahead"? Not really. Inches ahead, maybe. Or maybe they are worse. Maybe the happy talk about hope and change will provide cover for a long-term sustained assault on whatever is left of freedom, due process, economic opportunity and peace in this country and this world.

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Enough Vision-Mania
Posted by: jim_altman on Jan 11, 2008 11:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Visionaries need to be given pulpits not political offices. We're in the midst of eight years of visionary leadership. Karl Rove, the PNAC, Supply-Side Economics are truly visionary, even hallucinatory one might say. Yet, here we are whooping up the most visionary, inspirational candidate again. Flash and pinache are busy trumping substance. Whose stump speeches generate the greatest wattage? Who wrings the most tears out of an audience? Who do we most want to be like when we grow up? Realpolitik is the work of Satan, who is either far-left or far-right of center depending upon which journal you read. Every four years we get sucked into the same mini-series mentality that the media forces upon us; heroes and villains, snappy slogans and jingoistic jingles. The result is governement by blind visionaries and congressional bobbleheads who know nothing and accomplish less while trying to look like matinee heroes on the six o'clock news.

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Yes, race and gender matter - but identity is not enough
Posted by: bugs on Jan 11, 2008 11:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Institutional racism and sexism in the U.S. are at the root of many of our problems, and I would love to vote for a candidate who is going to fight to dismantle those systems. However, I am not convinced that Obama would do anything substantive to fight racism or advance civil rights, and I definitely don't see Clinton doing much for gender equality. (Yes, they'd both be better than any of the Republican candidates, but that's a helluva low bar.)

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Devil Politics
Posted by: ptoddchesser on Jan 11, 2008 11:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have long said that for ANY person,regardless of party affiliation,to win the highest office,they have to sell their soul to the devil many times over.It's not going to matter if Obama,Clinton,McCain,Romney,Edwards,or Huckabee wins this election.They will be owned by corporations and big business.
As long as this country is mired in two party politics we all lose.Don't think for one second that despite all the show and bluster they perform for the cameras that lawmakers from both parties aren't high fiving each other across the aisle.The have the American people over a barrel and the ability to administer the "'ol in-out" any time they see fit.
Politics in this country is pining for a viable third party that can trump the "good 'ol boy" networks of life inside the beltway.

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what?
Posted by: nicR on Jan 11, 2008 12:28 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From the original editorial:

"No one admits supporting Hillary because she's a woman or Obama because he's black."

You must've just woken up from a coma this morning.

Many of Hillary's supporters clam to support her for just that reason, discounting her dirty politics, lack of experience and liabilities.

Same thing with Obama. Ask a typical supporter of either candidate to tell you where either of them stand on social security, improving the economy, etc. and you'll likely draw a blank stare. This race isn't about issues, it's about smoke and mirrors.

--From an (atypical) Obama supporter.

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» RE: what? Posted by: jonnie rae

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White Backlash?
Posted by: edpierce on Jan 11, 2008 1:24 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Listening to the election returns in the New Hampshire Primary, an unthinkable question arose in my consciousness.

How many of the large number of voters who reported that they were "still undecided" until the day of the primary ultimately decided in the privacy of voting booths that they could not vote for a Black American candidate for President of the United States?

Is it possible that there was a "white backlash" in New Hampshire?

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White Backlash?
Posted by: edpierce on Jan 11, 2008 1:26 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Listening to the election returns in the New Hampshire Primary, an unthinkable question arose in my consciousness.

How many of the large number of voters who reported that they were "still undecided" until the day of the primary ultimately decided in the privacy of voting booths that they could not vote for a Black American candidate for President of the United States?

Is it possible that there was a "white backlash" in New Hampshire?

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» RE: White Backlash? Posted by: rury

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you can apologize later...
Posted by: undrgrndgirl on Jan 11, 2008 1:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
when one of them is sitting in the white house and nothing has changed...

VOTE KUCINICH.

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» History has shown... Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: History has shown... Posted by: nochicagoboys

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Slighly off topic question
Posted by: EncinoM on Jan 11, 2008 2:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Other then the eight years Hillary was sleeping with the president she has only been a US senator for less then 8 years, while when you add Obama's State and Federal experience together, he has beena legislator for over 12 years.

How is Hillary claiming with a straight face she is more experienced?

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» RE: Slighly off topic question Posted by: holdonivegotacallwaiting
» RE: Slighly off topic question Posted by: morris1030

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See How they Run; See How they Vote
Posted by: herbal on Jan 11, 2008 2:50 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not to ignore race and gender is to be sexist and racist. btw, I live in Washington State where at the height of the ERA Feminist movement, in 1972, Dixie Lee Ray was elected by a landslide by an electorate who didn't bother to check out her past. She had been the head of the AEC, Atmonic Regulatory Commission, and presided over (and failed at) attempts to cover up the plutonium fires at the AEC's privately run Rocky Flats plant in Golden, CO. She claimed to be a Democrat. She became famous for her killing of our Oregon style bottle bill and for her opposition to the Marine Mammal Protection Act. What? She held a PhD in marine biology and issued her most famous quote, "Why protect those fish (sic), they just defecate in the water". PhD.

Wake up! Its all about voting record. See how they vote, forget how they talk. Hillary has a perfect 7 year Bush-Cheney voting record, voting for war, war funding, pro-Lukid party, pro-Homeland Security, no tax the corporations and rich, pro-Patriot acts. She is no quasi-Republican. She is a full fleged ruling class corporatist who's candidacy needs to be terminated now. Even giving Hillary and Obama the benefit of the doubt; 2013 for Iraq withdrawal timeline(?) coupled with hillary's AIPAC endorsement of nuclear Iran invasion, there is no room for trivial talk about gender and race. The author has given rhetoric to tactics of diversion from real issues; a Karl Rove tactic. Vote Edwards, Gravel, Kucinich, Paul; the candid ones. Smell a phony, cry stink.

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A Stupid Article
Posted by: sofla100 on Jan 11, 2008 3:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama has as much in common with a Black in inner-city Detroit as I have in common with the man on the moon. Hillary equally has nothing in common with the average working woman. Economic distinctions have long been trumping simple gender or racial differences. This article is even more foolish because we all know Hillary and Obama are owned by the corporations, Israel and the neo-cons. They only represent the top 1% of America that owns 1/3rd of the countries wealth.
To support simply on the basis of superficial distinctions of appearance is nonsense.

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» RE: A Stupid Article Posted by: edgar_michel

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Anyone Who Goes for Either Neo-Con Should Apologize
Posted by: LookOut on Jan 11, 2008 4:51 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And get some rehab.

These "candidates" are real as department store Santas. This has zero to do with race or gender for anyone who looks more than skin-deep.

Cheap slogans and doubletalk have zero to do with corporate Fascist reality on or off the campaign trail.

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Take a Look at Gravel
Posted by: representativepress on Jan 11, 2008 6:19 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]

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jonnierae
Posted by: jonnie rae on Jan 11, 2008 7:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The difference between Obama and Clinton is that he is running a grassroots campaign, a continuation really of Dean's efforts, its purpose being to bring the American people back into the political process, to get rid of the status quo, conventional thinking that has brought us to this desperate state, both nationally and internationally. He has been making the case for that fundamental, and generational change. He has never attacked her as a woman, suggesting that she is too emotional, or too weak, or too whatever the female stereotype is going on these days. The pundits are making the story about the gender gap and the race card. Obama himself has said and done nothing to encourage this line of discussion or thought. He wants everyone to unite, even across party lines. Now, everyone is adopting his ideas as their own, but really, those who make money off of manufactured conflict will fan the flames. I think the whole point of this election is really generational, not racial or sexual. People in charge have a hard time with this because they know their time has come to either be part of the solution of part of the problem. I think Kerry grasped this very well as seen in his endorsement speech of Barack in SC. It really is a movement, not a contest between a black and a woman. By the way, I am 61 years old, a boomer, whatever, member of Woodstock nation who supports Barack Obama. Our generation did what we could. It's time to pass the torch.

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You should apologize for reasons having nothing to do with race or gender
Posted by: progdem on Jan 11, 2008 10:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Policy wise Clinton is a disaster, practically and morally. The DLC represents fiscal conservativism, deregulation, the eviseration of entitlement programs (Welfare reform), hawkish foreign policy, and unrestricted free trade.

Obama is a fluff candidate who has shown neither the ability nor the inclination to defend left wing ideas, instead thinking that partisanship is the root of the problem.

Both of them depend on the contributions of significantly anti-progressive industries (military contractors, Wall Street investment firms, pharmaceutical companies, etc.).

For these reasons you should apologize for supporting them. If you think that their racial and gender identities make up for it, you are an idiot. Stupidity is not usually a thing you need to apologize for though.

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The Bill & Hillary show!
Posted by: carbon-based on Jan 12, 2008 5:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fact that a women and a black are front runners in a Presidential race is historic, never mind anything else they do. A women speaker of the house, the number of minorities in high government posts is all historic (Rice , Powell etc.)

But the real historic element here is if Hillary goes on to win the election, Bill will have found a way to circumvent the two term rule..THAT is historic!

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dras
Posted by: dras on Jan 15, 2008 11:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It hasn't even begun to get ugly. There are BILLIONS of dollars at stake, a megalomaniac's legacy, an entire industry's fortunes...we see and hear 24/7 that they're not just going to roll over for us. They want us to believe how Hillary is accusing Obama or Obama is accusing Hillary...the MEDIA is taking their cues from the GOP leadership on what non-stories to peddle on their networks. The more we buy into it, the better their chances are for screwing up the NEXT administration.
We let them get away with it with the Bush reelection and all of us together can't let them do it again. Just stop and think of where our world will be if we have just one more term with the traitorous and phony people.
My advice is to stop watching the so called debates and when election time comes around get as many friends and neighbors as you can to get to the polls and vote AGAINST THE WORST OF THE TWO ON THE BALLOT.

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Lack of Media Fairness
Posted by: Yermal on Jan 16, 2008 12:36 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Five companies control 80% of what people watch on TV, and 10 companies control two-thirds of what people hear on the radio. The medai does not want to dig into stories that are likely to affect adversely the interests of their main advertisers. Fairness and accuracy in reporting is lacking. That is reflected when the media called Obama's win in Iowa as "historic" (as he is the first black candidate in history to win a caucus) while not calling Hillary's win in New Hampshire as historic as well (when Hillary is the first woman in history to win a primary). Moreover, the media is getting distracted from serious issues due to its increasing focus on gossip, rumors, contradicting polls and opinions, and racial and sexual matters. This is not advancing public understanding of important issues and the capability of different candidates to bring about change.

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Alternet Comments:

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Come Out Of The Closet
Posted by: NoPCZone on Jan 11, 2008 12:39 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you are an Obama or Clintonista, come out of the closet. Living a double life is such a destructive thing to do. It's time to own up to who you really are...

Go down to the court house and tell the county clerk that you wish to change your party registration to the Republicans, because that is what you are supporting.

Look beyond the rhetoric and look at what these candidates stand for and have stood for during their public service when it really counted. If you want to see what a real Democrat looks like, check out Russ Feingold, Dennis Kucinich, Paul Wellstone, Barbara Jordan or any of a long list of others.

I am really tired of DLC DINOs ruining our party and it's chances to advance this nation. It was once said (I think Truman), that given a choice between a real Republican and a fake one, the voters will pick the real one every time.

We have been in the wilderness for a very long time now. Reagan, Bush I, Clinton (a Republican-lite) and now the NeoCon Poster Child Dubya Bush. I want a real choice on election day- not a toss up between two flavors of Republican.

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» I'll pick the fake one Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: Come Out Of The Closet Posted by: NoPCZone

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Is This Supposed to Be a Serious Political Column?
Posted by: LookOut on Jan 11, 2008 1:25 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Next we'll discuss Hillary's hairnet and how tight Obama's triceps are.

Give me a break...

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I'm for change
Posted by: Blink on Jan 11, 2008 4:05 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It doesn't matter what kind of change, because all change is ultimately good. For example, if my employment status changes (I'm fired), that is a good thing, since it forces me to do something different with my life and maybe I didn't deserve that job anyway. Getting cancer is also a form of change, but again, since change is always good, getting cancer is a good thing, because it forces a person to be empathetic and live each day as though it's his last day on earth. Change of any kind is good. Therefore, I support Obama, because Obama is also in favor of change.

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» RE: I'm for change Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: I'm for change Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: I'm for change Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: I'm for change Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: I'm for change Posted by: OldRedleg
» RE: I'm for change Posted by: Axiom69
» RE: I'm for change Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: I'm for change Posted by: Blink
» RE: I'm for change Posted by: nochicagoboys

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how do you reply to an article that doesn't make any sense?
Posted by: Suzon on Jan 11, 2008 4:13 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We aren't living in a democracy any more, are we? Therefore this piece is rubbish.

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concerned citizen
Posted by: skingk on Jan 11, 2008 4:25 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I used to think Edwards was sincere, but then it turns out all three top candidates are members of the Council for Foreign Relations which used to be led by Dick Cheney. So is Kuchinich for that matter. Go to Youtube and search for Aaron Russo video.

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» RE: concerned citizen Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: concerned citizen Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: concerned citizen--Prove this Posted by: militaryhater
» RE: concerned citizen--Prove this Posted by: buddyedgewood

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They don't need to apologize, but they probably should.
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jan 11, 2008 4:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lots of people admit supporting Hillary because she's a woman, and Obama because he's black. And they don't seem to see the irony of voting for someone for those reasons.

They want one of these status-quo, Republican-lite candidates in office for the next 4-8 years just because they think it will be a neat historical moment, and they can pat themselves on the back for promoting "diversity".

Let's see...We've had a female Secretary of State, a black Secretary of State...Remember when progressives thought Pelosi was going to be the new sheriff? How's all that working out for women, and blacks...and the rest of us?

Meanwhile, Ron Paul and Kucinich really want to shake things up (so they say), but they're the wrong color and wrong gender. Sorry, guys. We don't really like the status-quo either, but we wanted to check off a couple of milestones and hear some tear-jerking speeches about historical moments. Maybe next time.

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» Snake oil Posted by: Axiom69

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Get real
Posted by: Julian on Jan 11, 2008 5:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The USA has never been so widely despised as it has over the last seven years – seen by millions as no longer a beacon for freedom as it dismantles its own constitution and as it Blitzkriegs its way into a sovereign country and threatens many others in a quest to sew up resources for its predator classes. Those falling for the diversion into “identity politics” – a diversion which is busily fanned by the bought commentariat (including some of the authors whom Alternet seems so keen to promote) – are moving their country from pathos to bathos and making anti-Americanism the flavour of the month. I am not American and would rather not have to be anti-American – thank heaven for the common sense of so many of those Americans whose comments in forums like this and others like it demand that “identity” navel-gazers get real.

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» RE: Get real Posted by: babs
» RE: Get real Posted by: no1kstate
» RE: Get real Posted by: Julian

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a petty & petulant article
Posted by: illit on Jan 11, 2008 5:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is gender/race/religion a valid reason to vote for/against someone?

Unfortunately issues and the voting history of the leading Dem. candidates show they are nothing more than RepLite.

Sure I'd like a black woman atheist to run and win IF she was capable of extracting us from the miasma we now experience. But what possible difference does gender/race/religion make as long as we are stuck with one corporatist party?

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Just give me a president who stands up for "We the People"
Posted by: nochicagoboys on Jan 11, 2008 5:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Are we ready for the first female president, or the first black president? I'm not sure. But, I am sure we're ready for any president who will stand up for We the People, and stand against corporatism and the idea of corporate-personhood, and will hold the Constitution of the United States sacred over any embodiment of ideas that makes truth, justice, and human rights take a back seat.

We do not want a president, of any race or gender, who derails attempts to have a more perfect union; disregards justice for all; works against achieving domestic tranquility for all; provides for the common defense strictly as a means of aggression against other nations; doesn't promote the general welfare, but collaborates to provide it only for the wealthiest, and most powerful, few; and doesn't strive to secure the blessings of liberty to all present-day Americans along with future generations.

If we can get a president that believes in the ideals as set forth in the Constitution, and cherishes them over any other philosophy, or religious standard, than it doesn't matter what color, or gender, that person is.

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» RE: Terrific post Posted by: luckypuck
» RE: Terrific post Posted by: luckypuck
» RE: Terrific post Posted by: nochicagoboys

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The most historic history-maker?
Posted by: mothersmovement on Jan 11, 2008 6:03 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The main reason Hillary's win in the NH primary feels less historic than Obama's Iowa victory is that Clinton has been running as an incumbent -- her core message is that as a life-long help-mate to Bill Clinton, she's been there, done that and is the only candidate who can get the job done. As Kerry Howley notes in a recent NY Times op-ed ("It Takes A Family To Break The Glass Ceiling," January 5), Hillary's leadership trajectory has tracked the conventional pattern for women who rise to the top of the political heap; she married a man with political ambitions and has actively exploited his popularity in her campaign. There's little doubt that Senator Clinton is a highly qualified candidate and a superb strategist, but from a purely feminist perspective I have a problem with celebrating the political success of a female candidate who might not be a serious contender had she married someone else. Even among Hillary Clinton's generation, ambitious women who graduated at the top of their class and went on to successful careers in law and public service are not exactly a rarity. Yet as Mr. Gill points out, only one has been victorious in an important presidential primary.

Obama, on the other hand, is running on his own merits and experience, and perhaps more significantly, is running as a visionary as well as an accomplished technician. While Mr. Gell suggests that Senator Clinton is more like John Edwards in being a "fighter" rather than a lover, Clinton presents herself as a masterful manipulator who will "turn up the heat" on interest groups who resist her agenda -- an approach that has spectacularly failed to deliver progress for women and working families in the past. I agree with Mr. Gell that voters should stop apologizing for supporting Senator Clinton because they want to see a woman in the White House in their lifetime, and having a viable woman candidate for the presidency is history-making, regardless of how she got there. But I caution against the perception that Senator Clinton is more capable of -- or more committed to -- assuring the advancement of women than Senator Obama or Mr. Edwards simply because of her sex.

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Change is ALWAYS good ???
Posted by: vnzjunk on Jan 11, 2008 6:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I had a boss one time who brought the employees under him into the office and gave us a change is always good speech when he had decided to make some major changes in the work place. Months later, his boss's made big changes to his employment conditions and as he was moping around the workplace I took the opportunity to remind him that indeed 'CHANGE WAS ALWAYS GOOD'. His tune had changed on that subject by then of course.

I guess it depends on whose change we are talking about here

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With comments like,
Posted by: WhuThe?!? on Jan 11, 2008 6:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"They are the best candidates -- of course.", we can just disregard this author. Heellllooooo! Can you say Kucinich? How about Gravel? Even Edwards? Obama and especially that bloody-handed hillary person are NOT the best candidates, just the ones an ignorant populace "thinks" are the best. This whole election is so sickening it makes a true progressive want to just give up in despair. It looks like the best we can hope for in the next 4 years is more of the same.

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thedirtydemocrat
Posted by: Thedirtydemocrat on Jan 11, 2008 6:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I believe Kerry was a detrimental part of Edwards program. Kerry has never got down in the dirt to work with real people. Standing in one place and commanding is not working with people. I think it was great that we now know what is going on. Obama and Kerry are part of the problem. Edwards is the only one for real change.

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WAKE UP!
Posted by: TarryFaster on Jan 11, 2008 7:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WE don't REALLY have any say-so in the elections, anymore! Is everyone, but me, wandering around in an illusion?

Get a dose of reality, here.

And/Or here!

It's the Bilberger Group who decides ... NOT US!

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Immature
Posted by: aberdeen on Jan 11, 2008 8:04 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This author and some of those responding need to grow up. There is no such thing as race at the genetic level; there are no white or black people but rather, people have various shades of skin inbetween these two extremes.

Voting for someone for any reason other than that one believes them to be the best candidate toward the human rights betterment of the world at large, represents the height of immaturity.

Someone needs to be spanked by their mommy.

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Suzanne-Marie
Posted by: Suzanne-Marie on Jan 11, 2008 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Were Hillary a person/woman with a history of truthfulness, rather than a liar, posturer, expedient actress, I might consider her Presidential bid as a virtuous striving...However that is not the case. There is just no way that anyone cannot know that she is a liar of the first order -- always has been, always will be - and, what's more, she thinks the American public is stupid enough not to know. Disgusting. (Witness, for example her "poor little shocked wifey" act, where she actually looked into the American public eye and told us she was just too, too astounded by her man's infidelity ... for one example out of many more serious instances of expedient lies...THAT WAS INSULTING AT LEAST TO EVERY WOMAN in the nation) THERE IS NO WAY SHE IS TRUSTWORTHY IN THE LEAST and she has never shown me anything other than political expediency. Her bid for the Presidency is no exception.

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» RE: Suzanne-Marie Posted by: ktsull

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Reasons to Vote
Posted by: Southern Gal on Jan 11, 2008 8:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am still researching the candidates' positions on issues of importance to me. I believe that we should vote for the candidates that best reflect our own positions. If those issues/positions are represented to your satisfaction equally among the candidates, then I see no problem with voting according to race or gender. I say this while I admit that candidates will say things on the campaign trail that they don't follow through with if elected. There is no doubt in my mind that Clinton, Edwards or Obama will do a better job for this country than any candidate on the Republican side.

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it's not a two person race
Posted by: desertlakes on Jan 11, 2008 8:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am voting for John Edwards. I like Barack Obama, but John Edwards has been at the lead of change for years. He has been fighting for the Environment, for Labor, for poor people, against Health care and Corporate corruption in his main job, when he was in the Senate, and when he ran for President and still now when he has returned to the Presidential campaign. I don't like it that he has been gagged, not just by the corporate press, but by the Progressive media.

Hilary keeps running on the false claim that she is the first woman who has run for President. The Corporate and Progressive media gave no coverage to the run in 2004 of Carol Mosley Brown. She was an ambassador, a Senator, a Professor. She was a Progressive candidate. Who covered her? Gloria Steinam writes an op-ed about how women should vote for Hilary because she is a woman. She did not write an article that in 2004 we should have voted for Carol Mosley Brown--also from Illinois.
I hope that we will as progressive media let everyone have a voice and get their message out.

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bird-ma
Posted by: bird-ma on Jan 11, 2008 8:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The "establishment" media is distracting us from the potential voter fraud that may occur in states where paperless voting is used, including SC. The MSM is beating the point into our brains that the difference in results of the paper count vs electronic (and vs exit polls) was due to Hilary's emotion, or Obama's being black, etc., to distract everyone from the REAL problem, which is a very unsafe election system!

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bird-ma
Posted by: bird-ma on Jan 11, 2008 9:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And then there is, of course, the national ID situation. Today on MSNBC it was reported that the department of Homeland Security is putting forth a bill requiring every U.S. citizen starting with those born before 1964, and then later all those born after 1964, to carry a federal ID! OK, so what happens when you lose that ID, or it's stolen? Do you get put in jail? Wake up, everyone! Between the rigged voting systems, and the national ID, we're rapidly succumbing to the soft fascism that nobody wants to believe is really happening in this country!

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» RE: bird-ma Posted by: Knot_Rich

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How about President Condi Rice?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jan 11, 2008 9:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She has both race and gender on her side, right? She would be twice as progressive as either Obama or Clinton, right?

Or maybe not, huh?

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Either is OK with me
Posted by: deapp on Jan 11, 2008 10:28 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Iowa was a shock to Black America to have a state with a 95% White population vote for a Black man or maybe in their White eyes a Mulatto(half-White man). There was a chance of the dreaded Bradley Poll Effect happening in Iowa as it did in New Hampshire but to the surprise of many not so. Most Blacks are either waiting to see if Whites are truly changed or if they will "Bradley" the race nation wide. Until then Hillary is the choice for most Blacks in a White race conscience society. A White woman has a better chance in winning a nation wide race. But then again has White America Changed?

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» RE: Racists and Sexists tend to vote Republican Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com

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Voters Desperate for Solutions Candidates Offer Soaring Rhetoric
Posted by: BBaumer on Jan 11, 2008 10:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Voters Desperate for Solutions Candidates Offer Soaring Rhetoric
By Steven Wishnia

The Indypendent

linked text

Those reading the roster of the senator’s corporate contributors might view her populist rhetoric skeptically, but it resonated with New Hampshire voters, who gave her the narrow win over Sen. Barack Obama. Democrats around the state almost universally identified their top four issues as ending the Iraq war, healthcare, the environment and global warming, and education, especially the high cost of college and the teach-to-the-test mandates of President Bush’s “No Child Left Behind” program. Clinton supporters often cited the economy as well.

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The Great White Hope
Posted by: BBaumer on Jan 11, 2008 10:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Great White Hope
By Nicholas Powers
The Indypendent

"I need to hope. Exhausted by the left’s fatalism, I sift the euphoria around Barack Obama for something real. Here is a Black man walking in Abraham Lincoln’s footsteps daring us to free ourselves from the racism that slavery left behind."

To read more:
linked text

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What a Choice
Posted by: kk33deg on Jan 11, 2008 10:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It appears that the coalition of the corporate right and the religious right that has done such a suerb job of running the country for the past 26 years (since the coronation of Emperor Reagan) is finally unraveling. It had to happen sooner or later - the corporate right makes too much money from pedaling culture that the religious right objects to, and the religious right has become too successful, so they are now a liability to the business right. We, the electorate, are sort of given the choice of deciding which faction gets to rule. What a priviledge. And luckily the corporate MSM is there to instruct us.

On the Democratic side, we are told that only two corporate right candidates, Obama and Clinton are viable. Not even Edwards is allowable because he has the gaul to complain about corporate greed. If elected, he might even do something about corporate greed. This presents an unacceptable business risk, so he is marginalized by the MSM.

On the Republican side, we are told the only allowable candidates are McCain, Giuliani and Romney. All of these candidates are the corporate right camp as well, although Romney pretends, somewhat feebly, to be a religious right candidate as well, and Giuliani panders to the religious right by obtaining Pat Robertson's endorsement. Ron Paul, who is clearly not in either the corporate right or religious right camp, is not allowable so he is thoroughly marginalized, despite substantial bipartisan support. The only problem is that the religious right grass roots (the only true grass roots movement in the US with any clout whatsoever) is too damn savvy to support Romney, the faux religious right candidate foisted on them by the MSM. Moreover, being primarily made up of Protestant evangelicals, Romney's Mormanism, which most Protestant evangelicals view as heresy, makes him unpalatable. Instead, they are supporting a true religious right candidate, Huckabee, in numbers too large to ignore. If this wasn't bad enough, Huckabee takes a number of positions counter to the corporate right, and even - gasp - has a record of raising taxes to support social programs. The MSM is doing everything in its power to destry Huckabee, and, if necessary, will eventually do to him what it did to Howard Dean in 2004.

So ultimately, we will get to choose between two corporate right candidates in November 2008. I, for one, am so glad that this election is about change.

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Media BUNK
Posted by: militaryhater on Jan 11, 2008 11:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Media is full of Bunk to even predict the final Democrat. Iowa and New Hampshire are 'SMALL' states...small populations. Why should they count so much? The media is trying to force Americans to choose between Hillary and Obama. Remember, the Media is controlled by HUGE RICH Conglomerates that have a lot to lose if their agenda is not maintained. I refuse to vote for Republicans disguised as Democrats. I don't look at gender or race...that is bogus. I look the person, what they say, their actions and what they stand for IF they have the GUTS to spell it out instead of lame words like "CHANGE".

If Edwards doesn't make it, I will NOT VOTE for either of them as it is a VOTE FOR a Republican. I am a DEMOCRAT. There trully isn't a TRUE Democrat in this race now. The NEO-CONS have this election wrapped up no matter what.

The Corporations have been very, very smart and saavy in all of this. They have all their soldiers in a row...Clinton, Obama, Romney, Giuliani, Thompson...
,..they can't lose. They fear Edwards. Edwards doesn't walk their walk or talk their Facist regime. A vote for Edwards is about the closest we are going to get to a TRUE Democrat.

Who cares about Hillary and Obama..only the Corporate controlled MEDIA brainwashing machine does.

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jareilly
Posted by: jareilly on Jan 11, 2008 11:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"They are both miles ahead of any candidate on the other side"? Huh? Miles ahead in what sense? Obama and Edwards poll ahead of or tie with all the repub candidates in a head to head face-off. Clinton polls behind all of them. So much for "experience" and "electability". So they are not both "miles ahead" in popularity. So are they "miles ahead" on political positions? Both have spent the last few years shaking down very rich, very powerful people like Rupert Murdoch, like the CEOs of the war industry and big pharma, like ADM, the multinational grain dealer positioned to clean up with ethanol (in Illinois, home to ADM-sponsored Obama), both have voted for the Patriot Act, both supported some of Bush's most reactionary judicial nominees, both have voted consistently to fund the war, both promise to remain in Iraq almost indefinitely, both want increases in war spending and "homeland security" spending, neither has said anything about the Bush regime's outrageous assault on our most fundamental freedoms, neither will take on the fascistic "unitary executive theory", neither call for an end to pre-emptive war, military aggression, kidnapping and disappearances (extraordinary rendition), torture, or other forms of brutal overseas meddling brought to a crescendo by the Bush Regime, neither has opposed warrantless wiretaps, neither voted or spoke against Jane Harman's frightening new "anti-domestic terrorist" law, and I don't believe either voted against the Military Tribunals Act, which gutted habeus corpus. Certainly neither spoke against it. Both are reflexive supporters of the Israeli right wing

"Miles ahead"? Not really. Inches ahead, maybe. Or maybe they are worse. Maybe the happy talk about hope and change will provide cover for a long-term sustained assault on whatever is left of freedom, due process, economic opportunity and peace in this country and this world.

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Enough Vision-Mania
Posted by: jim_altman on Jan 11, 2008 11:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Visionaries need to be given pulpits not political offices. We're in the midst of eight years of visionary leadership. Karl Rove, the PNAC, Supply-Side Economics are truly visionary, even hallucinatory one might say. Yet, here we are whooping up the most visionary, inspirational candidate again. Flash and pinache are busy trumping substance. Whose stump speeches generate the greatest wattage? Who wrings the most tears out of an audience? Who do we most want to be like when we grow up? Realpolitik is the work of Satan, who is either far-left or far-right of center depending upon which journal you read. Every four years we get sucked into the same mini-series mentality that the media forces upon us; heroes and villains, snappy slogans and jingoistic jingles. The result is governement by blind visionaries and congressional bobbleheads who know nothing and accomplish less while trying to look like matinee heroes on the six o'clock news.

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Yes, race and gender matter - but identity is not enough
Posted by: bugs on Jan 11, 2008 11:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Institutional racism and sexism in the U.S. are at the root of many of our problems, and I would love to vote for a candidate who is going to fight to dismantle those systems. However, I am not convinced that Obama would do anything substantive to fight racism or advance civil rights, and I definitely don't see Clinton doing much for gender equality. (Yes, they'd both be better than any of the Republican candidates, but that's a helluva low bar.)

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Devil Politics
Posted by: ptoddchesser on Jan 11, 2008 11:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have long said that for ANY person,regardless of party affiliation,to win the highest office,they have to sell their soul to the devil many times over.It's not going to matter if Obama,Clinton,McCain,Romney,Edwards,or Huckabee wins this election.They will be owned by corporations and big business.
As long as this country is mired in two party politics we all lose.Don't think for one second that despite all the show and bluster they perform for the cameras that lawmakers from both parties aren't high fiving each other across the aisle.The have the American people over a barrel and the ability to administer the "'ol in-out" any time they see fit.
Politics in this country is pining for a viable third party that can trump the "good 'ol boy" networks of life inside the beltway.

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what?
Posted by: nicR on Jan 11, 2008 12:28 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From the original editorial:

"No one admits supporting Hillary because she's a woman or Obama because he's black."

You must've just woken up from a coma this morning.

Many of Hillary's supporters clam to support her for just that reason, discounting her dirty politics, lack of experience and liabilities.

Same thing with Obama. Ask a typical supporter of either candidate to tell you where either of them stand on social security, improving the economy, etc. and you'll likely draw a blank stare. This race isn't about issues, it's about smoke and mirrors.

--From an (atypical) Obama supporter.

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» RE: what? Posted by: jonnie rae

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White Backlash?
Posted by: edpierce on Jan 11, 2008 1:24 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Listening to the election returns in the New Hampshire Primary, an unthinkable question arose in my consciousness.

How many of the large number of voters who reported that they were "still undecided" until the day of the primary ultimately decided in the privacy of voting booths that they could not vote for a Black American candidate for President of the United States?

Is it possible that there was a "white backlash" in New Hampshire?

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White Backlash?
Posted by: edpierce on Jan 11, 2008 1:26 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Listening to the election returns in the New Hampshire Primary, an unthinkable question arose in my consciousness.

How many of the large number of voters who reported that they were "still undecided" until the day of the primary ultimately decided in the privacy of voting booths that they could not vote for a Black American candidate for President of the United States?

Is it possible that there was a "white backlash" in New Hampshire?

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» RE: White Backlash? Posted by: rury

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you can apologize later...
Posted by: undrgrndgirl on Jan 11, 2008 1:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
when one of them is sitting in the white house and nothing has changed...

VOTE KUCINICH.

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» History has shown... Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: History has shown... Posted by: nochicagoboys

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Slighly off topic question
Posted by: EncinoM on Jan 11, 2008 2:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Other then the eight years Hillary was sleeping with the president she has only been a US senator for less then 8 years, while when you add Obama's State and Federal experience together, he has beena legislator for over 12 years.

How is Hillary claiming with a straight face she is more experienced?

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» RE: Slighly off topic question Posted by: holdonivegotacallwaiting
» RE: Slighly off topic question Posted by: morris1030

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See How they Run; See How they Vote
Posted by: herbal on Jan 11, 2008 2:50 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not to ignore race and gender is to be sexist and racist. btw, I live in Washington State where at the height of the ERA Feminist movement, in 1972, Dixie Lee Ray was elected by a landslide by an electorate who didn't bother to check out her past. She had been the head of the AEC, Atmonic Regulatory Commission, and presided over (and failed at) attempts to cover up the plutonium fires at the AEC's privately run Rocky Flats plant in Golden, CO. She claimed to be a Democrat. She became famous for her killing of our Oregon style bottle bill and for her opposition to the Marine Mammal Protection Act. What? She held a PhD in marine biology and issued her most famous quote, "Why protect those fish (sic), they just defecate in the water". PhD.

Wake up! Its all about voting record. See how they vote, forget how they talk. Hillary has a perfect 7 year Bush-Cheney voting record, voting for war, war funding, pro-Lukid party, pro-Homeland Security, no tax the corporations and rich, pro-Patriot acts. She is no quasi-Republican. She is a full fleged ruling class corporatist who's candidacy needs to be terminated now. Even giving Hillary and Obama the benefit of the doubt; 2013 for Iraq withdrawal timeline(?) coupled with hillary's AIPAC endorsement of nuclear Iran invasion, there is no room for trivial talk about gender and race. The author has given rhetoric to tactics of diversion from real issues; a Karl Rove tactic. Vote Edwards, Gravel, Kucinich, Paul; the candid ones. Smell a phony, cry stink.

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A Stupid Article
Posted by: sofla100 on Jan 11, 2008 3:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama has as much in common with a Black in inner-city Detroit as I have in common with the man on the moon. Hillary equally has nothing in common with the average working woman. Economic distinctions have long been trumping simple gender or racial differences. This article is even more foolish because we all know Hillary and Obama are owned by the corporations, Israel and the neo-cons. They only represent the top 1% of America that owns 1/3rd of the countries wealth.
To support simply on the basis of superficial distinctions of appearance is nonsense.

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» RE: A Stupid Article Posted by: edgar_michel

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Anyone Who Goes for Either Neo-Con Should Apologize
Posted by: LookOut on Jan 11, 2008 4:51 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And get some rehab.

These "candidates" are real as department store Santas. This has zero to do with race or gender for anyone who looks more than skin-deep.

Cheap slogans and doubletalk have zero to do with corporate Fascist reality on or off the campaign trail.

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Take a Look at Gravel
Posted by: representativepress on Jan 11, 2008 6:19 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]

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jonnierae
Posted by: jonnie rae on Jan 11, 2008 7:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The difference between Obama and Clinton is that he is running a grassroots campaign, a continuation really of Dean's efforts, its purpose being to bring the American people back into the political process, to get rid of the status quo, conventional thinking that has brought us to this desperate state, both nationally and internationally. He has been making the case for that fundamental, and generational change. He has never attacked her as a woman, suggesting that she is too emotional, or too weak, or too whatever the female stereotype is going on these days. The pundits are making the story about the gender gap and the race card. Obama himself has said and done nothing to encourage this line of discussion or thought. He wants everyone to unite, even across party lines. Now, everyone is adopting his ideas as their own, but really, those who make money off of manufactured conflict will fan the flames. I think the whole point of this election is really generational, not racial or sexual. People in charge have a hard time with this because they know their time has come to either be part of the solution of part of the problem. I think Kerry grasped this very well as seen in his endorsement speech of Barack in SC. It really is a movement, not a contest between a black and a woman. By the way, I am 61 years old, a boomer, whatever, member of Woodstock nation who supports Barack Obama. Our generation did what we could. It's time to pass the torch.

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You should apologize for reasons having nothing to do with race or gender
Posted by: progdem on Jan 11, 2008 10:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Policy wise Clinton is a disaster, practically and morally. The DLC represents fiscal conservativism, deregulation, the eviseration of entitlement programs (Welfare reform), hawkish foreign policy, and unrestricted free trade.

Obama is a fluff candidate who has shown neither the ability nor the inclination to defend left wing ideas, instead thinking that partisanship is the root of the problem.

Both of them depend on the contributions of significantly anti-progressive industries (military contractors, Wall Street investment firms, pharmaceutical companies, etc.).

For these reasons you should apologize for supporting them. If you think that their racial and gender identities make up for it, you are an idiot. Stupidity is not usually a thing you need to apologize for though.

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The Bill & Hillary show!
Posted by: carbon-based on Jan 12, 2008 5:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fact that a women and a black are front runners in a Presidential race is historic, never mind anything else they do. A women speaker of the house, the number of minorities in high government posts is all historic (Rice , Powell etc.)

But the real historic element here is if Hillary goes on to win the election, Bill will have found a way to circumvent the two term rule..THAT is historic!

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dras
Posted by: dras on Jan 15, 2008 11:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It hasn't even begun to get ugly. There are BILLIONS of dollars at stake, a megalomaniac's legacy, an entire industry's fortunes...we see and hear 24/7 that they're not just going to roll over for us. They want us to believe how Hillary is accusing Obama or Obama is accusing Hillary...the MEDIA is taking their cues from the GOP leadership on what non-stories to peddle on their networks. The more we buy into it, the better their chances are for screwing up the NEXT administration.
We let them get away with it with the Bush reelection and all of us together can't let them do it again. Just stop and think of where our world will be if we have just one more term with the traitorous and phony people.
My advice is to stop watching the so called debates and when election time comes around get as many friends and neighbors as you can to get to the polls and vote AGAINST THE WORST OF THE TWO ON THE BALLOT.

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Lack of Media Fairness
Posted by: Yermal on Jan 16, 2008 12:36 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Five companies control 80% of what people watch on TV, and 10 companies control two-thirds of what people hear on the radio. The medai does not want to dig into stories that are likely to affect adversely the interests of their main advertisers. Fairness and accuracy in reporting is lacking. That is reflected when the media called Obama's win in Iowa as "historic" (as he is the first black candidate in history to win a caucus) while not calling Hillary's win in New Hampshire as historic as well (when Hillary is the first woman in history to win a primary). Moreover, the media is getting distracted from serious issues due to its increasing focus on gossip, rumors, contradicting polls and opinions, and racial and sexual matters. This is not advancing public understanding of important issues and the capability of different candidates to bring about change.

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