COMMENTS: 106
Supporting Hillary or Barack? Stop Apologizing for It
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I sent a message to Robert Greenwald's live election blog Tuesday evening at Brave New Films.com: Was this the first time a woman had won a presidential primary? No one was quite sure. Had Elizabeth Dole won a primary? someone blogged.
I wondered, why was Obama's win historic and Hillary's simply a comeback? One could argue Obama's "historic moment" is the beginning of a new era of bipartisanship -- where gay couples and evangelicals stroll arm in arm to adopt unwed babies, assist in late-term abortions and bury cynics like me -- but I doubt it.
Let's start with some history.
It turns out Hillary may have the more "historic" win -- if race and gender "firsts" are the yardstick. Technically, Shirley Chisholm takes both "firsts" with a New Jersey primary win in 1972. And Jesse Jackson won five primaries and caucuses in 1984 -- including Virginia, Louisiana and D.C.
On closer inspection, according to Allan Lichtman, professor of history at American University, Chisholm actually won a "nonbinding preference, where no delegates were awarded" against ex-Gov. Terry Sanford. Humphrey, McGovern and Muskie did not compete. As Lichtman put it, "This is the first time in American history a woman won a major contested presidential primary." At the very least, the first time in 36 years a woman had won a primary.
One reason, perhaps, that pundits and the press found Obama's moment so "historical" was that Obama said so: "At this defining moment in history, you have done what the cynics said we couldn't do." The Chicago Times called his win a "historic and decisive victory in the Iowa caucuses." And most other major media followed the "historic" line.
Michael Powell of the New York Times said, "But the moment is suffused, so as almost not to require that he make it explicit, with a sense of historical moment. I, you, we can make history, he says, by turning the nation's sorrowful racial narrative into something radiant and hopeful."
Clearly, Obama's Iowa victory speech was superior and will be remembered and replayed, and Hillary's New Hampshire primary victory speech will not. But this does not fully explain why journalists and pundits are giving such short shrift to Hillary's achievement.
In a country where every time a woman or black who is "first" at something is properly noted, the lack of historical focus on Hillary's first speaks to the difficulty every pundit faces and to the cutesy games everyone -- especially the candidates -- play when it comes to race and gender in this election.
Obama didn't say Martin Luther King was smiling tonight during his "historic" speech. The racial aspect of his historic moment, as Michael Powell notes, is not "explicit" -- but it's there. Oprah didn't just dive into presidential politics solely because of Obama's policies and good looks.
No one admits supporting Hillary because she's a woman or Obama because he's black. They are the best candidates -- of course. But this is often disingenous. After 200-plus years we still can't find a woman or man good enough to run the country? The white guys are all more qualified again? Hillary and Obama are qualified, and no one needs to apologize for wanting a woman or black to finally get a shot. And luckily, this time, they are also both miles ahead of any candidate on the other side.
Part of this historical lapse is linked to anti-Hillary sentiment and liberal discomfort with the Clintons. Paul Krugman pointed out Obama's more conservative tendencies on Social Security and healthcare -- but Hillary didn't get any traction. Hillary is closer to John Edwards' "We have to fight 'em" than Obama's "Let's all be friends" tactical approach on dealing with the right and achieving change -- but Edwards pushes back on Hillary instead.
On Charlie Rose the night of New Hampshire, Arianna Huffington, who certainly has no love lost for Iraq War-authorizing Hillary, pointed out how her win wouldn't take anything away from Obama's historic moment.
Arianna, time to give sister Hillary her due.
As Gloria Steinem pointed out in her New York Times Op-Ed -- gender politics are alive and well in this campaign. The next time Hillary makes history, she just might have to borrow another element from the Obama playbook -- and point it out herself.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: NoPCZone on Jan 11, 2008 12:39 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Go down to the court house and tell the county clerk that you wish to change your party registration to the Republicans, because that is what you are supporting.
Look beyond the rhetoric and look at what these candidates stand for and have stood for during their public service when it really counted. If you want to see what a real Democrat looks like, check out Russ Feingold, Dennis Kucinich, Paul Wellstone, Barbara Jordan or any of a long list of others.
I am really tired of DLC DINOs ruining our party and it's chances to advance this nation. It was once said (I think Truman), that given a choice between a real Republican and a fake one, the voters will pick the real one every time.
We have been in the wilderness for a very long time now. Reagan, Bush I, Clinton (a Republican-lite) and now the NeoCon Poster Child Dubya Bush. I want a real choice on election day- not a toss up between two flavors of Republican.
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» We have a one-party system, just as the Soviet Union did, except ours leans right
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» I'll pick the fake one
Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: Come Out Of The Closet
Posted by: g50
» RE: Come Out Of The Closet
Posted by: NoPCZone
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LookOut on Jan 11, 2008 1:25 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Give me a break...
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Posted by: Blink on Jan 11, 2008 4:05 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I'm for change
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: I'm for change
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: I'm for change
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: I'm for change
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: I'm for change
Posted by: OldRedleg
» RE: I'm for change
Posted by: Axiom69
» RE: I'm for change
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: I'm for change
Posted by: Blink
» RE: I'm for change
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: I'm for change (I mean "Change")
Posted by: Blink
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Suzon on Jan 11, 2008 4:13 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: skingk on Jan 11, 2008 4:25 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Yeah, who needs foreign relations?
Posted by: defrag
» RE: concerned citizen
Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: concerned citizen
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: concerned citizen--Prove this
Posted by: militaryhater
» RE: concerned citizen--Prove this
Posted by: buddyedgewood
Comments are closed-
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jan 11, 2008 4:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They want one of these status-quo, Republican-lite candidates in office for the next 4-8 years just because they think it will be a neat historical moment, and they can pat themselves on the back for promoting "diversity".
Let's see...We've had a female Secretary of State, a black Secretary of State...Remember when progressives thought Pelosi was going to be the new sheriff? How's all that working out for women, and blacks...and the rest of us?
Meanwhile, Ron Paul and Kucinich really want to shake things up (so they say), but they're the wrong color and wrong gender. Sorry, guys. We don't really like the status-quo either, but we wanted to check off a couple of milestones and hear some tear-jerking speeches about historical moments. Maybe next time.
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» I'm still waiting to hear someone say they're voting ONLY because of gender or race
Posted by: Beck
» Right, they're not voting for republicrats because of gender or race...
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» I try, but am severely outnumbered...
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: I try, but am severely outnumbered...
Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: I try, but am severely outnumbered...
Posted by: illit
» I believe voting out the incumbents each election
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: ight, they're not voting for republicrats because of gender or race...
Posted by: Axiom69
» No No, perhaps I should have worded it differently
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» Snake oil
Posted by: Axiom69
» RE: No No, perhaps I should have worded it differently
Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: I'm still waiting to hear someone say they're voting ONLY because of gender or race
Posted by: Fishbone Soldier
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Posted by: Julian on Jan 11, 2008 5:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Get real
Posted by: babs
» RE: Get real
Posted by: no1kstate
» RE: Get real
Posted by: Julian
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Posted by: illit on Jan 11, 2008 5:44 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unfortunately issues and the voting history of the leading Dem. candidates show they are nothing more than RepLite.
Sure I'd like a black woman atheist to run and win IF she was capable of extracting us from the miasma we now experience. But what possible difference does gender/race/religion make as long as we are stuck with one corporatist party?
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Posted by: nochicagoboys on Jan 11, 2008 5:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We do not want a president, of any race or gender, who derails attempts to have a more perfect union; disregards justice for all; works against achieving domestic tranquility for all; provides for the common defense strictly as a means of aggression against other nations; doesn't promote the general welfare, but collaborates to provide it only for the wealthiest, and most powerful, few; and doesn't strive to secure the blessings of liberty to all present-day Americans along with future generations.
If we can get a president that believes in the ideals as set forth in the Constitution, and cherishes them over any other philosophy, or religious standard, than it doesn't matter what color, or gender, that person is.
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» I think you are speaking on behalf of most Alternet readers...
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: I think you are speaking on behalf of most Alternet readers...
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Just give me a president who stands up for "We the People"
Posted by: Axiom69
» RE: Just give me a president who stands up for "We the People"
Posted by: gazooks
» RE: Terrific post
Posted by: luckypuck
» RE: Terrific post
Posted by: luckypuck
» RE: Terrific post
Posted by: nochicagoboys
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Posted by: mothersmovement on Jan 11, 2008 6:03 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama, on the other hand, is running on his own merits and experience, and perhaps more significantly, is running as a visionary as well as an accomplished technician. While Mr. Gell suggests that Senator Clinton is more like John Edwards in being a "fighter" rather than a lover, Clinton presents herself as a masterful manipulator who will "turn up the heat" on interest groups who resist her agenda -- an approach that has spectacularly failed to deliver progress for women and working families in the past. I agree with Mr. Gell that voters should stop apologizing for supporting Senator Clinton because they want to see a woman in the White House in their lifetime, and having a viable woman candidate for the presidency is history-making, regardless of how she got there. But I caution against the perception that Senator Clinton is more capable of -- or more committed to -- assuring the advancement of women than Senator Obama or Mr. Edwards simply because of her sex.
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» RE: The most historic history-maker?
Posted by: morris1030
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Posted by: vnzjunk on Jan 11, 2008 6:08 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess it depends on whose change we are talking about here
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» RE: Change is ALWAYS good ???
Posted by: Axiom69
» It's the neoliberal mantra.
Posted by: pig
» Ask not what your company can do for you
Posted by: nherkowitz
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Posted by: WhuThe?!? on Jan 11, 2008 6:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» You can't always see the strings, but they're there
Posted by: nochicagoboys
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Posted by: Thedirtydemocrat on Jan 11, 2008 6:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: TarryFaster on Jan 11, 2008 7:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Get a dose of reality, here.
And/Or here!
It's the Bilberger Group who decides ... NOT US!
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Posted by: aberdeen on Jan 11, 2008 8:04 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Voting for someone for any reason other than that one believes them to be the best candidate toward the human rights betterment of the world at large, represents the height of immaturity.
Someone needs to be spanked by their mommy.
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Posted by: Suzanne-Marie on Jan 11, 2008 8:16 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Suzanne-Marie
Posted by: ktsull
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Posted by: Southern Gal on Jan 11, 2008 8:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Reasons to Vote -- You can start here:
Posted by: TarryFaster
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Posted by: desertlakes on Jan 11, 2008 8:44 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hilary keeps running on the false claim that she is the first woman who has run for President. The Corporate and Progressive media gave no coverage to the run in 2004 of Carol Mosley Brown. She was an ambassador, a Senator, a Professor. She was a Progressive candidate. Who covered her? Gloria Steinam writes an op-ed about how women should vote for Hilary because she is a woman. She did not write an article that in 2004 we should have voted for Carol Mosley Brown--also from Illinois.
I hope that we will as progressive media let everyone have a voice and get their message out.
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Posted by: bird-ma on Jan 11, 2008 8:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: bird-ma on Jan 11, 2008 9:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: bird-ma
Posted by: Knot_Rich
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jan 11, 2008 9:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Or maybe not, huh?
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Posted by: deapp on Jan 11, 2008 10:28 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Racists and Sexists tend to vote Republican
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: acists and Sexists tend to vote Republican
Posted by: deapp
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Posted by: BBaumer on Jan 11, 2008 10:43 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By Steven Wishnia
The Indypendent
linked text
Those reading the roster of the senator’s corporate contributors might view her populist rhetoric skeptically, but it resonated with New Hampshire voters, who gave her the narrow win over Sen. Barack Obama. Democrats around the state almost universally identified their top four issues as ending the Iraq war, healthcare, the environment and global warming, and education, especially the high cost of college and the teach-to-the-test mandates of President Bush’s “No Child Left Behind” program. Clinton supporters often cited the economy as well.
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Posted by: BBaumer on Jan 11, 2008 10:46 AM
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By Nicholas Powers
The Indypendent
"I need to hope. Exhausted by the left’s fatalism, I sift the euphoria around Barack Obama for something real. Here is a Black man walking in Abraham Lincoln’s footsteps daring us to free ourselves from the racism that slavery left behind."
To read more:
linked text
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Posted by: kk33deg on Jan 11, 2008 10:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On the Democratic side, we are told that only two corporate right candidates, Obama and Clinton are viable. Not even Edwards is allowable because he has the gaul to complain about corporate greed. If elected, he might even do something about corporate greed. This presents an unacceptable business risk, so he is marginalized by the MSM.
On the Republican side, we are told the only allowable candidates are McCain, Giuliani and Romney. All of these candidates are the corporate right camp as well, although Romney pretends, somewhat feebly, to be a religious right candidate as well, and Giuliani panders to the religious right by obtaining Pat Robertson's endorsement. Ron Paul, who is clearly not in either the corporate right or religious right camp, is not allowable so he is thoroughly marginalized, despite substantial bipartisan support. The only problem is that the religious right grass roots (the only true grass roots movement in the US with any clout whatsoever) is too damn savvy to support Romney, the faux religious right candidate foisted on them by the MSM. Moreover, being primarily made up of Protestant evangelicals, Romney's Mormanism, which most Protestant evangelicals view as heresy, makes him unpalatable. Instead, they are supporting a true religious right candidate, Huckabee, in numbers too large to ignore. If this wasn't bad enough, Huckabee takes a number of positions counter to the corporate right, and even - gasp - has a record of raising taxes to support social programs. The MSM is doing everything in its power to destry Huckabee, and, if necessary, will eventually do to him what it did to Howard Dean in 2004.
So ultimately, we will get to choose between two corporate right candidates in November 2008. I, for one, am so glad that this election is about change.
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Posted by: militaryhater on Jan 11, 2008 11:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Edwards doesn't make it, I will NOT VOTE for either of them as it is a VOTE FOR a Republican. I am a DEMOCRAT. There trully isn't a TRUE Democrat in this race now. The NEO-CONS have this election wrapped up no matter what.
The Corporations have been very, very smart and saavy in all of this. They have all their soldiers in a row...Clinton, Obama, Romney, Giuliani, Thompson...
,..they can't lose. They fear Edwards. Edwards doesn't walk their walk or talk their Facist regime. A vote for Edwards is about the closest we are going to get to a TRUE Democrat.
Who cares about Hillary and Obama..only the Corporate controlled MEDIA brainwashing machine does.
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» Edwards is Neo-Con Lite - Kucinich = Only Real Candidate
Posted by: LookOut
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Posted by: jareilly on Jan 11, 2008 11:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Miles ahead"? Not really. Inches ahead, maybe. Or maybe they are worse. Maybe the happy talk about hope and change will provide cover for a long-term sustained assault on whatever is left of freedom, due process, economic opportunity and peace in this country and this world.
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» Yes, So lets get serious about supporting the only one left; Edwards
Posted by: herbal
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Posted by: jim_altman on Jan 11, 2008 11:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: bugs on Jan 11, 2008 11:46 AM
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Posted by: ptoddchesser on Jan 11, 2008 11:48 AM
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As long as this country is mired in two party politics we all lose.Don't think for one second that despite all the show and bluster they perform for the cameras that lawmakers from both parties aren't high fiving each other across the aisle.The have the American people over a barrel and the ability to administer the "'ol in-out" any time they see fit.
Politics in this country is pining for a viable third party that can trump the "good 'ol boy" networks of life inside the beltway.
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Posted by: nicR on Jan 11, 2008 12:28 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"No one admits supporting Hillary because she's a woman or Obama because he's black."
You must've just woken up from a coma this morning.
Many of Hillary's supporters clam to support her for just that reason, discounting her dirty politics, lack of experience and liabilities.
Same thing with Obama. Ask a typical supporter of either candidate to tell you where either of them stand on social security, improving the economy, etc. and you'll likely draw a blank stare. This race isn't about issues, it's about smoke and mirrors.
--From an (atypical) Obama supporter.
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» RE: what?
Posted by: jonnie rae
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Posted by: edpierce on Jan 11, 2008 1:24 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How many of the large number of voters who reported that they were "still undecided" until the day of the primary ultimately decided in the privacy of voting booths that they could not vote for a Black American candidate for President of the United States?
Is it possible that there was a "white backlash" in New Hampshire?
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Posted by: edpierce on Jan 11, 2008 1:26 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How many of the large number of voters who reported that they were "still undecided" until the day of the primary ultimately decided in the privacy of voting booths that they could not vote for a Black American candidate for President of the United States?
Is it possible that there was a "white backlash" in New Hampshire?
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» RE: White Backlash?
Posted by: rury
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Posted by: undrgrndgirl on Jan 11, 2008 1:41 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
VOTE KUCINICH.
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» History has shown...
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: History has shown...
Posted by: nochicagoboys
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Posted by: EncinoM on Jan 11, 2008 2:08 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How is Hillary claiming with a straight face she is more experienced?
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» RE: Slighly off topic question
Posted by: holdonivegotacallwaiting
» RE: Slighly off topic question
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Slighly off topic question
Posted by: morris1030
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Posted by: herbal on Jan 11, 2008 2:50 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wake up! Its all about voting record. See how they vote, forget how they talk. Hillary has a perfect 7 year Bush-Cheney voting record, voting for war, war funding, pro-Lukid party, pro-Homeland Security, no tax the corporations and rich, pro-Patriot acts. She is no quasi-Republican. She is a full fleged ruling class corporatist who's candidacy needs to be terminated now. Even giving Hillary and Obama the benefit of the doubt; 2013 for Iraq withdrawal timeline(?) coupled with hillary's AIPAC endorsement of nuclear Iran invasion, there is no room for trivial talk about gender and race. The author has given rhetoric to tactics of diversion from real issues; a Karl Rove tactic. Vote Edwards, Gravel, Kucinich, Paul; the candid ones. Smell a phony, cry stink.
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Posted by: sofla100 on Jan 11, 2008 3:44 PM
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To support simply on the basis of superficial distinctions of appearance is nonsense.
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» RE: A Stupid Article
Posted by: edgar_michel
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Posted by: LookOut on Jan 11, 2008 4:51 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These "candidates" are real as department store Santas. This has zero to do with race or gender for anyone who looks more than skin-deep.
Cheap slogans and doubletalk have zero to do with corporate Fascist reality on or off the campaign trail.
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Posted by: representativepress on Jan 11, 2008 6:19 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
see video: Petty Clinton Omits Gravel, Hillary Shows Her True Colors
see video: Noam Chomsky applauds Senator Gravel's past and present accomplishments
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Posted by: jonnie rae on Jan 11, 2008 7:02 PM
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Posted by: progdem on Jan 11, 2008 10:41 PM
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Obama is a fluff candidate who has shown neither the ability nor the inclination to defend left wing ideas, instead thinking that partisanship is the root of the problem.
Both of them depend on the contributions of significantly anti-progressive industries (military contractors, Wall Street investment firms, pharmaceutical companies, etc.).
For these reasons you should apologize for supporting them. If you think that their racial and gender identities make up for it, you are an idiot. Stupidity is not usually a thing you need to apologize for though.
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Posted by: carbon-based on Jan 12, 2008 5:29 AM
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But the real historic element here is if Hillary goes on to win the election, Bill will have found a way to circumvent the two term rule..THAT is historic!
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Posted by: dras on Jan 15, 2008 11:44 AM
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We let them get away with it with the Bush reelection and all of us together can't let them do it again. Just stop and think of where our world will be if we have just one more term with the traitorous and phony people.
My advice is to stop watching the so called debates and when election time comes around get as many friends and neighbors as you can to get to the polls and vote AGAINST THE WORST OF THE TWO ON THE BALLOT.
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Posted by: Yermal on Jan 16, 2008 12:36 PM
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Jan 11, 2008 12:39 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Go down to the court house and tell the county clerk that you wish to change your party registration to the Republicans, because that is what you are supporting.
Look beyond the rhetoric and look at what these candidates stand for and have stood for during their public service when it really counted. If you want to see what a real Democrat looks like, check out Russ Feingold, Dennis Kucinich, Paul Wellstone, Barbara Jordan or any of a long list of others.
I am really tired of DLC DINOs ruining our party and it's chances to advance this nation. It was once said (I think Truman), that given a choice between a real Republican and a fake one, the voters will pick the real one every time.
We have been in the wilderness for a very long time now. Reagan, Bush I, Clinton (a Republican-lite) and now the NeoCon Poster Child Dubya Bush. I want a real choice on election day- not a toss up between two flavors of Republican.
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» We have a one-party system, just as the Soviet Union did, except ours leans right
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» I'll pick the fake one
Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: Come Out Of The Closet
Posted by: g50
» RE: Come Out Of The Closet
Posted by: NoPCZone
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LookOut on Jan 11, 2008 1:25 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Give me a break...
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Posted by: Blink on Jan 11, 2008 4:05 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I'm for change
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: I'm for change
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: I'm for change
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: I'm for change
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: I'm for change
Posted by: OldRedleg
» RE: I'm for change
Posted by: Axiom69
» RE: I'm for change
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: I'm for change
Posted by: Blink
» RE: I'm for change
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: I'm for change (I mean "Change")
Posted by: Blink
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Suzon on Jan 11, 2008 4:13 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: skingk on Jan 11, 2008 4:25 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Yeah, who needs foreign relations?
Posted by: defrag
» RE: concerned citizen
Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: concerned citizen
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: concerned citizen--Prove this
Posted by: militaryhater
» RE: concerned citizen--Prove this
Posted by: buddyedgewood
Comments are closed-
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jan 11, 2008 4:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They want one of these status-quo, Republican-lite candidates in office for the next 4-8 years just because they think it will be a neat historical moment, and they can pat themselves on the back for promoting "diversity".
Let's see...We've had a female Secretary of State, a black Secretary of State...Remember when progressives thought Pelosi was going to be the new sheriff? How's all that working out for women, and blacks...and the rest of us?
Meanwhile, Ron Paul and Kucinich really want to shake things up (so they say), but they're the wrong color and wrong gender. Sorry, guys. We don't really like the status-quo either, but we wanted to check off a couple of milestones and hear some tear-jerking speeches about historical moments. Maybe next time.
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» I'm still waiting to hear someone say they're voting ONLY because of gender or race
Posted by: Beck
» Right, they're not voting for republicrats because of gender or race...
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» I try, but am severely outnumbered...
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: I try, but am severely outnumbered...
Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: I try, but am severely outnumbered...
Posted by: illit
» I believe voting out the incumbents each election
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: ight, they're not voting for republicrats because of gender or race...
Posted by: Axiom69
» No No, perhaps I should have worded it differently
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» Snake oil
Posted by: Axiom69
» RE: No No, perhaps I should have worded it differently
Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: I'm still waiting to hear someone say they're voting ONLY because of gender or race
Posted by: Fishbone Soldier
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Posted by: Julian on Jan 11, 2008 5:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Get real
Posted by: babs
» RE: Get real
Posted by: no1kstate
» RE: Get real
Posted by: Julian
Comments are closed-
Posted by: illit on Jan 11, 2008 5:44 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unfortunately issues and the voting history of the leading Dem. candidates show they are nothing more than RepLite.
Sure I'd like a black woman atheist to run and win IF she was capable of extracting us from the miasma we now experience. But what possible difference does gender/race/religion make as long as we are stuck with one corporatist party?
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Posted by: nochicagoboys on Jan 11, 2008 5:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We do not want a president, of any race or gender, who derails attempts to have a more perfect union; disregards justice for all; works against achieving domestic tranquility for all; provides for the common defense strictly as a means of aggression against other nations; doesn't promote the general welfare, but collaborates to provide it only for the wealthiest, and most powerful, few; and doesn't strive to secure the blessings of liberty to all present-day Americans along with future generations.
If we can get a president that believes in the ideals as set forth in the Constitution, and cherishes them over any other philosophy, or religious standard, than it doesn't matter what color, or gender, that person is.
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» I think you are speaking on behalf of most Alternet readers...
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: I think you are speaking on behalf of most Alternet readers...
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Just give me a president who stands up for "We the People"
Posted by: Axiom69
» RE: Just give me a president who stands up for "We the People"
Posted by: gazooks
» RE: Terrific post
Posted by: luckypuck
» RE: Terrific post
Posted by: luckypuck
» RE: Terrific post
Posted by: nochicagoboys
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mothersmovement on Jan 11, 2008 6:03 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama, on the other hand, is running on his own merits and experience, and perhaps more significantly, is running as a visionary as well as an accomplished technician. While Mr. Gell suggests that Senator Clinton is more like John Edwards in being a "fighter" rather than a lover, Clinton presents herself as a masterful manipulator who will "turn up the heat" on interest groups who resist her agenda -- an approach that has spectacularly failed to deliver progress for women and working families in the past. I agree with Mr. Gell that voters should stop apologizing for supporting Senator Clinton because they want to see a woman in the White House in their lifetime, and having a viable woman candidate for the presidency is history-making, regardless of how she got there. But I caution against the perception that Senator Clinton is more capable of -- or more committed to -- assuring the advancement of women than Senator Obama or Mr. Edwards simply because of her sex.
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» RE: The most historic history-maker?
Posted by: morris1030
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Posted by: vnzjunk on Jan 11, 2008 6:08 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess it depends on whose change we are talking about here
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» RE: Change is ALWAYS good ???
Posted by: Axiom69
» It's the neoliberal mantra.
Posted by: pig
» Ask not what your company can do for you
Posted by: nherkowitz
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Posted by: WhuThe?!? on Jan 11, 2008 6:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» You can't always see the strings, but they're there
Posted by: nochicagoboys
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Posted by: Thedirtydemocrat on Jan 11, 2008 6:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: TarryFaster on Jan 11, 2008 7:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Get a dose of reality, here.
And/Or here!
It's the Bilberger Group who decides ... NOT US!
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Posted by: aberdeen on Jan 11, 2008 8:04 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Voting for someone for any reason other than that one believes them to be the best candidate toward the human rights betterment of the world at large, represents the height of immaturity.
Someone needs to be spanked by their mommy.
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Posted by: Suzanne-Marie on Jan 11, 2008 8:16 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Suzanne-Marie
Posted by: ktsull
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Posted by: Southern Gal on Jan 11, 2008 8:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Reasons to Vote -- You can start here:
Posted by: TarryFaster
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Posted by: desertlakes on Jan 11, 2008 8:44 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hilary keeps running on the false claim that she is the first woman who has run for President. The Corporate and Progressive media gave no coverage to the run in 2004 of Carol Mosley Brown. She was an ambassador, a Senator, a Professor. She was a Progressive candidate. Who covered her? Gloria Steinam writes an op-ed about how women should vote for Hilary because she is a woman. She did not write an article that in 2004 we should have voted for Carol Mosley Brown--also from Illinois.
I hope that we will as progressive media let everyone have a voice and get their message out.
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Posted by: bird-ma on Jan 11, 2008 8:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: bird-ma on Jan 11, 2008 9:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: bird-ma
Posted by: Knot_Rich
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jan 11, 2008 9:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Or maybe not, huh?
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Posted by: deapp on Jan 11, 2008 10:28 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Racists and Sexists tend to vote Republican
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: acists and Sexists tend to vote Republican
Posted by: deapp
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BBaumer on Jan 11, 2008 10:43 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By Steven Wishnia
The Indypendent
linked text
Those reading the roster of the senator’s corporate contributors might view her populist rhetoric skeptically, but it resonated with New Hampshire voters, who gave her the narrow win over Sen. Barack Obama. Democrats around the state almost universally identified their top four issues as ending the Iraq war, healthcare, the environment and global warming, and education, especially the high cost of college and the teach-to-the-test mandates of President Bush’s “No Child Left Behind” program. Clinton supporters often cited the economy as well.
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Posted by: BBaumer on Jan 11, 2008 10:46 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By Nicholas Powers
The Indypendent
"I need to hope. Exhausted by the left’s fatalism, I sift the euphoria around Barack Obama for something real. Here is a Black man walking in Abraham Lincoln’s footsteps daring us to free ourselves from the racism that slavery left behind."
To read more:
linked text
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Posted by: kk33deg on Jan 11, 2008 10:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On the Democratic side, we are told that only two corporate right candidates, Obama and Clinton are viable. Not even Edwards is allowable because he has the gaul to complain about corporate greed. If elected, he might even do something about corporate greed. This presents an unacceptable business risk, so he is marginalized by the MSM.
On the Republican side, we are told the only allowable candidates are McCain, Giuliani and Romney. All of these candidates are the corporate right camp as well, although Romney pretends, somewhat feebly, to be a religious right candidate as well, and Giuliani panders to the religious right by obtaining Pat Robertson's endorsement. Ron Paul, who is clearly not in either the corporate right or religious right camp, is not allowable so he is thoroughly marginalized, despite substantial bipartisan support. The only problem is that the religious right grass roots (the only true grass roots movement in the US with any clout whatsoever) is too damn savvy to support Romney, the faux religious right candidate foisted on them by the MSM. Moreover, being primarily made up of Protestant evangelicals, Romney's Mormanism, which most Protestant evangelicals view as heresy, makes him unpalatable. Instead, they are supporting a true religious right candidate, Huckabee, in numbers too large to ignore. If this wasn't bad enough, Huckabee takes a number of positions counter to the corporate right, and even - gasp - has a record of raising taxes to support social programs. The MSM is doing everything in its power to destry Huckabee, and, if necessary, will eventually do to him what it did to Howard Dean in 2004.
So ultimately, we will get to choose between two corporate right candidates in November 2008. I, for one, am so glad that this election is about change.
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Posted by: militaryhater on Jan 11, 2008 11:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Edwards doesn't make it, I will NOT VOTE for either of them as it is a VOTE FOR a Republican. I am a DEMOCRAT. There trully isn't a TRUE Democrat in this race now. The NEO-CONS have this election wrapped up no matter what.
The Corporations have been very, very smart and saavy in all of this. They have all their soldiers in a row...Clinton, Obama, Romney, Giuliani, Thompson...
,..they can't lose. They fear Edwards. Edwards doesn't walk their walk or talk their Facist regime. A vote for Edwards is about the closest we are going to get to a TRUE Democrat.
Who cares about Hillary and Obama..only the Corporate controlled MEDIA brainwashing machine does.
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» Edwards is Neo-Con Lite - Kucinich = Only Real Candidate
Posted by: LookOut
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Posted by: jareilly on Jan 11, 2008 11:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Miles ahead"? Not really. Inches ahead, maybe. Or maybe they are worse. Maybe the happy talk about hope and change will provide cover for a long-term sustained assault on whatever is left of freedom, due process, economic opportunity and peace in this country and this world.
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» Yes, So lets get serious about supporting the only one left; Edwards
Posted by: herbal
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Posted by: jim_altman on Jan 11, 2008 11:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: bugs on Jan 11, 2008 11:46 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: ptoddchesser on Jan 11, 2008 11:48 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As long as this country is mired in two party politics we all lose.Don't think for one second that despite all the show and bluster they perform for the cameras that lawmakers from both parties aren't high fiving each other across the aisle.The have the American people over a barrel and the ability to administer the "'ol in-out" any time they see fit.
Politics in this country is pining for a viable third party that can trump the "good 'ol boy" networks of life inside the beltway.
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Posted by: nicR on Jan 11, 2008 12:28 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"No one admits supporting Hillary because she's a woman or Obama because he's black."
You must've just woken up from a coma this morning.
Many of Hillary's supporters clam to support her for just that reason, discounting her dirty politics, lack of experience and liabilities.
Same thing with Obama. Ask a typical supporter of either candidate to tell you where either of them stand on social security, improving the economy, etc. and you'll likely draw a blank stare. This race isn't about issues, it's about smoke and mirrors.
--From an (atypical) Obama supporter.
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» RE: what?
Posted by: jonnie rae
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Posted by: edpierce on Jan 11, 2008 1:24 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How many of the large number of voters who reported that they were "still undecided" until the day of the primary ultimately decided in the privacy of voting booths that they could not vote for a Black American candidate for President of the United States?
Is it possible that there was a "white backlash" in New Hampshire?
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Posted by: edpierce on Jan 11, 2008 1:26 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How many of the large number of voters who reported that they were "still undecided" until the day of the primary ultimately decided in the privacy of voting booths that they could not vote for a Black American candidate for President of the United States?
Is it possible that there was a "white backlash" in New Hampshire?
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» RE: White Backlash?
Posted by: rury
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Posted by: undrgrndgirl on Jan 11, 2008 1:41 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
VOTE KUCINICH.
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» History has shown...
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: History has shown...
Posted by: nochicagoboys
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Posted by: EncinoM on Jan 11, 2008 2:08 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How is Hillary claiming with a straight face she is more experienced?
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» RE: Slighly off topic question
Posted by: holdonivegotacallwaiting
» RE: Slighly off topic question
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Slighly off topic question
Posted by: morris1030
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Posted by: herbal on Jan 11, 2008 2:50 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wake up! Its all about voting record. See how they vote, forget how they talk. Hillary has a perfect 7 year Bush-Cheney voting record, voting for war, war funding, pro-Lukid party, pro-Homeland Security, no tax the corporations and rich, pro-Patriot acts. She is no quasi-Republican. She is a full fleged ruling class corporatist who's candidacy needs to be terminated now. Even giving Hillary and Obama the benefit of the doubt; 2013 for Iraq withdrawal timeline(?) coupled with hillary's AIPAC endorsement of nuclear Iran invasion, there is no room for trivial talk about gender and race. The author has given rhetoric to tactics of diversion from real issues; a Karl Rove tactic. Vote Edwards, Gravel, Kucinich, Paul; the candid ones. Smell a phony, cry stink.
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Posted by: sofla100 on Jan 11, 2008 3:44 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To support simply on the basis of superficial distinctions of appearance is nonsense.
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» RE: A Stupid Article
Posted by: edgar_michel
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Posted by: LookOut on Jan 11, 2008 4:51 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These "candidates" are real as department store Santas. This has zero to do with race or gender for anyone who looks more than skin-deep.
Cheap slogans and doubletalk have zero to do with corporate Fascist reality on or off the campaign trail.
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Posted by: representativepress on Jan 11, 2008 6:19 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
see video: Petty Clinton Omits Gravel, Hillary Shows Her True Colors
see video: Noam Chomsky applauds Senator Gravel's past and present accomplishments
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Posted by: jonnie rae on Jan 11, 2008 7:02 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: progdem on Jan 11, 2008 10:41 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama is a fluff candidate who has shown neither the ability nor the inclination to defend left wing ideas, instead thinking that partisanship is the root of the problem.
Both of them depend on the contributions of significantly anti-progressive industries (military contractors, Wall Street investment firms, pharmaceutical companies, etc.).
For these reasons you should apologize for supporting them. If you think that their racial and gender identities make up for it, you are an idiot. Stupidity is not usually a thing you need to apologize for though.
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Posted by: carbon-based on Jan 12, 2008 5:29 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But the real historic element here is if Hillary goes on to win the election, Bill will have found a way to circumvent the two term rule..THAT is historic!
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Posted by: dras on Jan 15, 2008 11:44 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We let them get away with it with the Bush reelection and all of us together can't let them do it again. Just stop and think of where our world will be if we have just one more term with the traitorous and phony people.
My advice is to stop watching the so called debates and when election time comes around get as many friends and neighbors as you can to get to the polls and vote AGAINST THE WORST OF THE TWO ON THE BALLOT.
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Posted by: Yermal on Jan 16, 2008 12:36 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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MoveOn Launches Campaign for Bold Progressive Reforms as the Obama Era Begins
Obama's Promise of Change Comes Wrapped in Red, White and Blue
Reactions to Obama's Historic Moment From Around the Globe




