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Election 2008

10 Absurd Conservative Myths About Obama's Recovery Plan

By Sara Robinson, Campaign for America's Future. Posted January 9, 2009.


Instead of taking accountability for this mess, conservatives are firing off the latest B.S. storm. Here's what you need to know to fire back.
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Here it is: our moment of economic truth. We're standing at that historic fork in the road where the nation decides, now and for the foreseeable future, whether it's going to hang on to the catastrophic assumptions of the free-market fundamentalists and rely once more on the nostrums that have so far failed to fix the mess, or take a bold step down a new, more progressive path that will finally re-empower the American people to build an economy that works for us all.

As usual, the conservatives have absolutely no conscience about what they did to create this mess. If they did, they'd all be holed up in their gated communities or on their private islands, embarrassed into silence at best and terrified of peasant uprisings at worst. Instead, they're jetting into D.C. en masse in a last-ditch attempt to head the country off -- or at least make sure that any money that does get spent ends up, as it always has, in their pockets.

To that end, the self-serving myths are starting to fly so thick and fast that the staff here at CAF has been working full-time to keep ahead of them. Here's some of what they're flinging in this latest B.S. storm -- and what you need to know to fire back.

1. The proposed recovery package is too big.

False. Most progressive economists agree (and Paul Krugman is downright emphatic) that it's going to take a minimum of a trillion dollars of well-placed investment to pull our economy out of this ditch. This is no time for half-measures, blue-ribbon committees, pilot projects, or trial balloons: this is a life-or-death crisis that requires immediate and massive intervention.

CAF Senior Fellow Bernie Horn puts it this way: "The American economy is huge and it’s at a standstill. It’s like a motionless 100-car freight train -- or one going backwards slowly. A small locomotive simply can’t pull it forward. We need an engine large enough to work, one that can create millions of jobs. If anything, a $775 billion 2-year plan may be too small rather than too big."

Dean Baker of the Economic Policy Institute echoed this same thing on MSNBC's "Countdown" last Tuesday night. It's got to be big. And it's got to be now. Anything too small -- or too late -- and the American economy will be at serious risk of stagnating the same way Japan's did in the 1990s.

2. If we can't afford (insert pet project here), we certainly can't afford this.

Yes, we can. What we really can't afford is a huge recession that undercuts the tax base. That's a vicious cycle that will make it increasingly harder to dig out the longer this goes on. The Congressional Budget Office projects that the current slowdown will cost the federal government $166 billion in lost tax revenues in 2009 -- a number that could easily get even larger in coming years if we fall into a real depression. If we get on that trendline, we could lose a trillion dollars in government revenues by the end of Obama's first term. We need to invest what we have while we still have it if we hope to have a strong economy going forward.

This argument is based on the limited view that wealth is mainly generated by loaning or borrowing at interest -- a common enough assumption among financial people over the past 30 years. A more progressive view is that real wealth is generated by labor, combined with access to resources required for production. Putting people to work creates wealth. So does ensuring that our current failing energy regime is replaced as rapidly as possible with one that's infinitely renewable and that we will finally be in full control of. And so do other kinds of infrastructure investments, which form the footing on which a new round of businesses can rise and thrive.

Businesses have always invested their capital to create more capital. The best parts of Obama's proposal involve getting the government to do the same thing. Conservatives are resisting this because don't believe that there's such a thing as the common wealth -- which is how they've rationalized their plundering of our common assets. We need to make it absolutely clear that we do believe in the common wealth -- and that their assaults on everything that allows America to generate national wealth are going stop, right here and right now.

3. It's more important to balance the budget. Fix that, and the rest will take care of itself.

Read history much? Herbert Hoover is history's poster boy for the idea that balancing the budget during a recession is the best way known to turn it into a full-on depression. And that wasn't a one-off: FDR repeated the lesson in 1937, when he succumbed to the pleas of budget-hawk conservatives and tried to balance the budget -- a move that put the brakes on what had, until then, been a solid recovery.

Looking forward, this year's numbers also show the case clearly. Economists are already estimating that spending by individuals and businesses will be off by $300 to $500 billion in 2009. The upshot of this will be millions of lost jobs, which in turn will mean even lower spending and more job losses next year as the country accelerates toward depression.

The only way to halt this slide is for the government to step in and fill the hole with an additional $300 billion-$500 billion of its own spending -- and to spend that money on investments that will create as many jobs as possible. The longer we wait, the more government spending it will ultimately take to pull us out of this -- and the less able we'll be to muster that much cash.


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See more stories tagged with: obama, conservatives, economic crisis, stimulus package, financial crisis

Sara Robinson is a twenty-year veteran of Silicon Valley, and is launching a second career as a strategic foresight analyst. When she's not studying change theories and reactionary movements, you can find her singing the alto part over at Orcinus. She lives in Vancouver, BC with her husband and two teenagers.

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Excellent Article Indeed !
Posted by: mmckinl on Jan 9, 2009 12:32 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article really runs the Conservative arguments into the ditch in concise and convincing fashion.

Now if Obama will stop giving away money for business tax beaks and subsidize Medicaid and Unemployment insurance we'd be off to a good start. Trouble is both Paul Krugman and Joseph Stiglitz have already run the numbers and Obama's Plan is too small.

Obama needs to shed DLC incrementalism and propose plans that are bold and broad enough to tackle problems the size of which we have not seen since The Great Depression and in some respects not even then.

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Absurd MYTHS on a FASCIST RULING CLASS…
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Jan 9, 2009 1:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This piece is loaded with nonsense and BS eyewash. A few outtake examples:

3. It's more important to balance the budget. Fix that, and the rest will take care of itself.
Read history much? Herbert Hoover is history's poster boy for the idea that balancing the budget during a recession is the best way known to turn it into a full-on depression. And that wasn't a one-off: FDR repeated the lesson in 1937…


I’ve read history quite a lot—the practical economic kind.

Neither Hoover nor FDR were to blame for the Great Depression that decimated the country during their time in office. The cause of the Great Depression at 1929 and its aftermath was the private Ponzi trap "Federal Reserve" Corp (not federal, minus no reserves) that cut the money supply by a full third from 1929 to 1933. All at the pleasure of “Fed” super-privileged felons for their own cozy profit.

Bernanke admitted this in his speech at Milton Friedman's (Rockefeller stooge) birthday 2002:

"I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great Depression. You're right, we did it. We're very sorry. But thanks to you, we won't do it again."

But of course the ruling class did do again, starting in 2008.


6. Large-scale government investment would inevitably turn into an orgy of waste, fraud and abuse.
True -- but only if we let conservatives run the show.


Really?

Democrats led by Obama were by far the deciding force in palming off the TARP Wall Street Bailout farce that is no more than an organized looting spree over the nation. The truth is, both democrats and neo-con republicans are run by the same freeloading FASCIST power that owns a Washington-MSM axis.

9. This whole Keynesian thing has been totally disproved. It didn’t work during the Depression. It didn’t work for Japan in the 1980s. Say what? We know that rewriting history is a favorite conservative pastime...

J.M. Keynes was a classic fraud whose entire career and life were funded by British control freak robber barons with original cash supplied via Cambridge economist Alfred Marshall – a staffer of the “Royal Colonial Society” (renamed “Royal Empire Society” in 1928) dedicated to de facto corporate crime rule over England’s empire. Most of Keynes’ theories are BS commonly used to justify Fascist rule.

"We will not have any more crashes in our time."
John Maynard Keynes (economist credited with “Keynesian Economics” advocating centrally planned and controlled economy. Quote two years before the Great Depression 1927)


Bottom line: this crash was produced by an Organized Corporate Crime ruling class to foist their "cure" for greater concentration of FASCIST power in exactly the wrong hands.

"The study of money, above all other fields is one in which complexity is used to disguise truth or evade truth, not to reveal it. "
John Kenneth Galbraith (Nobel Laureate economist and author. Quote 1975 1908-2006)

"The minority, the ruling class at present, has the schools and press, usually the Church as well, under its thumb. This enables it to organize and sway the emotions of the masses, and make its tool of them."
Doctor Albert Einstein (in a letter to Sigmund Freud 7/30/1932. 1879-1955)

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» Communist theory indeed Posted by: Bliss Doubt
» Communist theory in Fantasy Posted by: PointMan
Not quite.
Posted by: Annarisse on Jan 9, 2009 3:39 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Close, but no cigar: the USA is not the safest place on earth to park extra money right now. Canada, which is being dragged down by the American mess but managed to avoid one of its own (unlike Britain or Iceland) is far safer.

I've been keeping my money out of the States as far as I can for the last few years, because anyone with a brain could see the bubble was getting close to bursting.

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Thank God for the internet!
Posted by: Perry Logan on Jan 9, 2009 3:52 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm so glad we threw the Repubs out before they had a chance to screw up the internet. :)

Just a short while back, the conservative myths would be all you hear. Now, they get debunked as fast as the Right can grind them out.

The net is also great for debunking the 9/11 Truth Movement. The Truthers are still trying, but every single claim they ever made about 9/11 being an "inside job" has been debunked on the internet. This is very useful.

(In beautiful Wingnutania, there is no internet.)

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» Thanks for the Strawman! Posted by: SalB
Remember the lesson of FDR
Posted by: Tom Degan on Jan 9, 2009 3:58 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Franklin D. Roosevelt did many good things for this country, no doubt about it. We're a better nation because of him. But he did make a few mistakes.

The new Right Wing Revisionism would have us actually believing that Roosevelt's investment in the nation's infrastucture actually prolonged the Depression.

WRONG!!!

His only mistake was the fact that in 1937 and 1938, he got a little too cautious and pulled back on spending.

If the Obama administration is smart, they will realize they this is no time for caution, timidity. They have to take bold action.

It's time the American people woke up and realized that the so-called "Reagan Revolution" was a hideous mistake. We have to admit that the damage that the dirty old dingbat did to this country is so immense, it will never be accurately assessed.

It is incalculable.

POST #200: The Worst of "The Rant"

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

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» RE: emember the lesson of FDR Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: emember the lesson of FDR Posted by: JSquercia
» Thank you, Cybershaman Posted by: Basenjis
» CEOs Cleaning Toilets? Dare to Dream! Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: emember the lesson of FDR Posted by: 2thepoint
» You live under a rock? Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: You live under a rock? Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: You live under a rock? Posted by: buzzsaw
Strange...
Posted by: 2thepoint on Jan 9, 2009 5:22 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thought democrats created this mess - starting with Clinton. Banking deregulation, Barney Franks sexual affair with a director at Fannie then claiming all is right with the mortgage giants, Fannies and Freddie being the democrats "toy" and funneling large amounts of contributions their way, democrats putting pressure on banks to make substandard loans to those that could not afford their homes, ACORN (what else needs to be said)...on and on and on..

That said, articles such as this only perpetuate the divisive partisian politics that has crippled our country.

The best thing that could happen is for the far left and far right to disappear and let the common sense middle America solve this issue.

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» RE: Sorry... Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Sorry... Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
» RE: Sorry... Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Sorry... Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Strange... Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
» RE: Strange... Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Strange... Posted by: buzzsaw
» RE: Strange... Posted by: Thucy
» RE: Strange... Posted by: Bliss Doubt
» RE: Strange... Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Strange... Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Strange... Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: Strange... Posted by: 2thepoint
Yeah Right
Posted by: jbsacks on Jan 9, 2009 5:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, lets see here. Dictator Bush has done NOTHING but turn his back on the SHeeple. I think Obama will at least ATTEMPT to help Main Street America! We'll see I guess.

Jess
Privacy Center

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» RE: Yeah Right Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
Obama said he is going to cut taxes.
Posted by: douglashoyt on Jan 9, 2009 5:55 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"New boss same as the old boss"

Have a nice day suckers.

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Wrong on bail out for states
Posted by: donnal on Jan 9, 2009 6:18 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why should a taxpayer in my state bailout NYC or CA?

What does either of these places do for my state's quality of life? I find the states that are finding shovel ready projects seem to be the states that supported Obama in the election.

The states that have say no to projects and handouts to their own citizens are now being asked to fund the states that do not know how to say NO.

The day has past when citizens who pay their taxes, follow the rules are going to be fleeced by those who need to be supported so that they can stand in line to have the newest blackberry...it time to say NO.

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» RE: Wrong on bail out for states Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: Wrong on bail out for states Posted by: peterjkraus
The Rich, The Bad and The Ugly myth of the American Dream
Posted by: peacelf on Jan 9, 2009 6:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The most terrible myth perpetuated by both rich and poor is the idea of the American Dream, that anyone who works hard can be rich.

This myth is responsible for many gross manipulations of public policy, as it has tricked the masses into supporting legislation, like deregulation, lower capital gains taxes, World Trade and 90% of the other laws that favor wealthy people in this country.

Since most americans think they can (or will) be rich one day, they support laws, programs, tax breaks, etc. that maintain the wealth and power in this country. The facts belie the truth, though.

Upward mobility is a myth. It is statistically impossible, as less than 1% of americans move upward in social-economic class. Indeed, today, one's children are likely to do worse than their parents.

The media are notorious for perpetuating the myth. The media loves a good rags to riches story. The media are also quick to squelch "class warfare" if the poor and working people challenge wealth and power.

Obama says he wants to restore the american dream. You can't restore something that never existed. However, he can stop the rape and pillage of working people by the wealthy and powerful by giving us the rights and protections to organize unions, paying for college for young people, converting the privileged healthcare system into a single-payer Medicare for all system, opting out of the WTO, and making elections fair by publicly financing all elections.

Of course, we should end corporate welfare, too. That would be the icing on the cake. Then, we might revive what used to be an american possibility.

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» Most of the new rich produce nothing Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Propaganda In Class Warfare Posted by: outsideagitator
Obama says no one is to blame?
Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson on Jan 9, 2009 6:38 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then why did you Obama bother to run for President if he couldn't can't figure this out?

There was huge fraud and manipulation by the leader of our country (Bush crime gang) and his friends on Wall Street (Federal Reserve). He refused regulation and failed to punish at every turn.

Democrats supposely objected in hearings, etc. We demanded re-regulation before Enron. We objected to Reagan's de-regulation of the financial markets. Huge international banks were declared "too big to fail" by Barney Frank, etc. Our federal insurance was to be increased, etc. Now we hear it is broke.

Now that we Democrats have a new leader no one is at fault? Give me a few billions for my old age. I won't go to jail nor will you. IT'S NO ONES FAULT!

Yes one administration covers for the previous one is evident to me. The elite few prosper and steal from us but its OK. Shameful.

This does not give the citizens or the world faith in our markets. The criminals and government who allowed it go free with their bag of plunder.

No "change for we the people and workers" for the third President in a row (Clinton, Bush, now Obama).

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» RE: Obama says no one is to blame? Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
Plaubel
Posted by: plaubel on Jan 9, 2009 6:57 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have never read such nonsense as I did in this Alternet article. If this is the best we progressives can do, making Krugman our economic guru, we are doomed.
If you would like to lean about the current state of our economic situation, may I suggest the following websites. These guys were spot on with their economic predictions for the last two years.

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/

This country is at a tipping point and to politicize economic decisions only helps to confuse talking points with actual solutions.

The credit Bubbles, both in the 1920's and the most recent one directly caused the depressions that followed. Greenspan's EZ money policy fueled the fire of the tech bubble and the RE bubble. Bubbles burst. Depressions caused by EZ money, now we are led to believe, can be cured by EZ money.
If printing money is all it takes to have a vibrant economy, Zimbabwe would be a world power.

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» RE: Plaubel Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
» RE: Plaubel Posted by: plaubel
» RE: Plaubel Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
» RE: Plaubel Posted by: outsideagitator
Sorry four mistakes by Obama before office
Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson on Jan 9, 2009 7:09 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How many more down the pike?

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Who needs myths?!
Posted by: sonofloud on Jan 9, 2009 7:21 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama supports tax cuts for the rich, corporate welfare, and a deficit be damned attitude....sure sounds like conservative republicanism to me.

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» RE: Who needs myths?! Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
» RE: Who needs myths?! Posted by: pwrblnc
» RE: Who needs myths?! Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
10 Right Wing Myths
Posted by: sunlakedude on Jan 9, 2009 7:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's interesting that now that a Democrat is going to be president the Right suddenly wants to "balance the budget". Where was this concern over deficit spending when Bu$h was running up record deficits and shoveling cash into Iraq and Haliburton? And conversely, the theory that tax cuts, especially for the wealthly, create a "trickle down" effect that boosts the entire economy is a myth also. This, of course, is a very convenient myth that the Right invented and has it's origin at least as far back as Reagan. I'm all for granting tax relief to the poor, middle class and blue collar workers. But we should rescind the tax cuts the GOP gave the wealthy in 2000. Somebody has to pay for all this stuff and it might as well be those who are most able to pay.

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» The Right isnt conservative Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: The Right isnt conservative Posted by: sunlakedude
» RE: The Right isnt conservative Posted by: jillipooh
ba
Posted by: mnstra on Jan 9, 2009 7:43 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama will preside over a culture war between old and young when he cuts social programs for the elderly.

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» RE: ba Posted by: Beck
This article is complete garbage
Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Jan 9, 2009 8:26 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From the very outset, it was fatally flawed. It is built on the flawed assumption that "free market fundamentals" somehow created this mess. They did not. The market relies on bad debts being forced to default. Government intervention has repeatedly attempted to paper over bad debts, destroying the market's primary mechanism for maintaining stability. Massive debt is not a product of free-market capitalism. It is a product of anti-capitalist intervention and market manipulation.

In a free market, debt continually defaults and is cleared, resulting in an ever-strengthening economy.

In a free market, defaulting of debt ensures that the damage done by debtors is limited, and the money is kept in the hands of those who know best how to manage it, ie, the people who stay out of debt.

In a government manipulated economy, the government continually bails out the people who cannot manage money, resulting in a downward spiral of bad debt and bad money management, which eventually consumes the entire economy, destroys the value of the currency, and in the end severely punishes all responsible people (people who save and invest instead of spend spend spend) by destroying the value of their savings. What follows is invariably collapse and tyranny.

What we have is clearly NOT a free market. And the author damn well knows that, yet spreads these horrible, nation-threatening lies anyway. And this author does this for what? 50k a year, after taxes? (I think you should be asking for more money! You'd think your own future would be worth more than that! Before you sit down to write these kinds of articles, you should give some thought to the complexity of the manipulation of information that is going on here.)

If we do not accept that it was government intervention and manipulation of the market that created this mess, then we are doomed to fall into an even Greater depression. It's as simple as that.

Government created the housing bubble, through support of GSEs.

Government created the financial bubble and the over-leveraging, by repealing Glass-Steagall.

Government created the commodity bubble, by over-manipulating interest rates and then dumping a stimulus right into a commodity boom. Oil would have never reached $147 a barrel had it not been for all that stimulus money. Dont you get it? That was just $150 billion. Dont you understand what is going to happen when Obomba dumps two or three times that much money into the economy? The only thing it is going to stimulate is higher prices. It's a guaranteed fact. Higher prices in a period of falling wages and employment is suicidal insanity. These people are deliberately destroying this country. And if you arent going to believe it now, then you sure as hell better start believing it when unemployment doubles.

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» AlterNetters don't get it Posted by: cthelyt
» RE: AlterNetters don't get it Posted by: JSquercia
2012
Posted by: solrev on Jan 9, 2009 9:14 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
An incompetent congress and Obama who is not bully enough to be in the pulpit. We are doomed. If they put the voting machines next to the food stamp lines in 2012, maybe the grasshoppers will choose wisely.

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» RE: 2012 Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
Your wish granted
Posted by: Axiom69 on Jan 9, 2009 9:14 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's see now: we have a Dem as President. Dems control the House and Dems are 1 seat away from a filibuster proof majority in the Senate if Franken gets seated. So in short, Dems are controlling the entire Government for a minimum of the next two years.
So two years from now when we are still in the crapper who are we going to blame everything on?

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» RE: Your wish granted Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
» RE: Your wish granted Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Your wish granted Posted by: desertlakes
Stop the wars and the military/industrial blowing up, burning up money and wasting resources
Posted by: thekidde on Jan 9, 2009 9:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that contribute nothing to society, the world or civilization. Cut the Pentagon's budget to bones without screwing over vets and service men and women. Stop the nuclear programs, missile programs, arms to everyone programs - that's a half trillion a year easy.

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» RE: should a religion be disolved? Posted by: Life of Illusion
Gov't. Projects.
Posted by: Sparks56 on Jan 9, 2009 9:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
6. Large-scale government investment would inevitably turn into an orgy of waste, fraud and abuse.
Hoover Dam, Grand Coulee Dam, the TVA, SF/Oakland Bay Bridge, the interstate highway system are paying dividends to this day. If one wants to find waste, fraud, and abuse, look to defense Dept. projects and contracts, the ones the conservatives see as holy.

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Get Real - Fix the Root Problem That Caused The Mess
Posted by: iris89 on Jan 9, 2009 9:58 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A plan by anyone on the economy that does NOT root out the root cause is just a Band-Aid. Derivatives and sub-prime mortgages need to be eliminated, especially ARMs with options. The current mess we are in are due to these items.

Also, borrowers need to be made to realize that the banks are NOT responsible if property values drom and should not suffer the losses for it.

Iris89

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According to the rethugs
Posted by: willymack on Jan 9, 2009 10:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The best defense is a vigorous OFFENSE, aimed at distracting the American people from the simple fact that they and their corporate masters are THIEVES. The sorry lot of them should be named by name and prosecuted, but that's in my perfect world; we all know we're far from that.

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the conservative bogeyman
Posted by: Jrod on Jan 9, 2009 10:05 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why stop at 10 myths? Surely you could come up with hundreds more. This is just a narrow-minded, sloppy hit piece filled with half truths and outright fabrications from the point of view of somebody who's probably never met a conservative in her life judging by the caricature sketched here.

Our war, the people’s war, is not with Democrats, and neither is it between Democrats and Republicans. We the people are at war for our liberty with today’s patricians who buy ghetto votes with public money and do whatever they have to make the middle class poor and stupid.

Try to process that sentiment, though surely you'll conclude that it is somehow racist, or sexist, or whatever and quickly dismiss it and get back to your smug, trite interpretations of what conservatives "really" think and feel.

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» RE: the conservative bogeyman Posted by: JSquercia
» Yes, we could Posted by: Beck
engr
Posted by: bflove on Jan 9, 2009 10:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is great! The republican commentors have ignored all the facts. The facts regarding Republican's administration of the economy are recorded by the Federal Reserve Economic Data (FRED). (http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/GDP_Max) If the dates each president held office are superimposed on the starting dates of each recession, it shows that, of the 10 recessions since 1950, Republican presidents have started 9 of them! Each Republican President since 1929 has started a recession. One started a depression, another started 3 recessions and Bush has 2. This is a total indictment of the Republican economic model which favors the unregulated corporations and wall st. over the middle-class working people. The Republican economic model of Supply Side/Trickle-down economics doesn't work. Greed takes away the pay, benefits and even jobs of American consumers-the goose that lays the golden egg. Production without consumption ability is folly! I will never vote for another Republican until they change their economic model for a balance between Supply and Demand for optimal GDP!

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Complete Rubbish
Posted by: crawfish on Jan 9, 2009 10:55 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How could this be a failure of the free market?

Go read the federal register and let me know if the market is free. The banking industry, which is currently being excoriated for the nations troubles, operates under 15,000 different regulations! That's not a free market. Oh, there is a failure, but it's a failure of market planning. But it had to fail - that's what planned markets do. Just ask Russia.

And invoking Keynes? Even he admitted that his economics work better in totalitarian systems. The big problem with Keynes is that his system spirals into central planning of EVERYTHING. This is necessarily so because in each iteration of tightening policy somebody, somewhere will find a way in which the central plan is inefficient and will exploit it. The government's only response is to tighten father. This cycle continues until the government controls everything.

I have a question for the author. Why, in a world when we have a great example of centralized planning (two of them, actually) does this author not cite how wonderful life has been for the Chinese population since Mao's Cultural Revolution? It seems very simple to me, when extolling the virtues of central planning, simply highlight the best example we have of it. …oh wait. China has been a horrific mess - that's why. I think I answered my own question. It's no coincidence that China has become increasingly prosperous as the government ceded more and more control.

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» RE: Complete Rubbish Posted by: sean000
» RE: Complete Rubbish Posted by: crawfish
Raising Taxes on the Super Rich
Posted by: jimswanson on Jan 9, 2009 11:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jim Swanson, Los Altos, CA
www.bushleagueofnations.com [for FREE download of entire book]

I offer just one comment regarding Sara Robinson’s wonderful article.

A conundrum I wrestle with is that the prescribed medicine runs the risk of being more of the same GOP medicine that got us into this catastrophic mess in the first place. The more that Obama bends to the GOP, the more likely this is to happen.

I’m referring specifically to: (1) the GOP’s profligate unprecedented federal spending, (2) the GOP’s humongous tax cuts and costly regulation and deregulation favors for America’s Super Rich and large corporations, and, of course, (3) the multitude of financial and moral deficits imbedded in, and fueled by, points (1) and (2).

I’d like to focus on just one element of the conundrum—namely, income tax rates on corporations and the Super Rich. (This relates to Sara’s point 4.)

Conventional wisdom is that reducing these rates stimulates economic activity.

However, the history of the last eight years—really, the last 28 years—strongly suggests the opposite is true.

One emerging perspective is that raising these tax rates actually stimulates economic activity. This is because the higher tax rates provide an incentive for corporate and high-end taxpayers to keep profits within the business and invest them in useful economic activity.

Thom Hartmann is a strong voice for this perspective.

Sara, I would love to hear your views on this.

My views of the criminal Bush regime and almost three decades of Reaganomics are expressed in, “The Bush League of Nations: The Coalition of the Unwilling, the Bullied and the Bribed – the GOP’s War on Iraq and America,” by James A. Swanson (2008, CreateSpace Publishing, 448 pages).

Patriots everywhere can download the entire book for free at www.bushleagueofnations.com.

I ask for nothing in return, except that you perhaps use my book to help restore and build America.

Jim Swanson, Los Altos, CA
www.bushleagueofnations.com [for FREE download of entire book]

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» Your generosity... Posted by: freelyb
Stimulus Plan
Posted by: ClassAct on Jan 9, 2009 11:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's time we as a nation recognize that conservatives suffer from a form of schizophrenia. I propose a stimulus package where the nation builds thousands of new hospitals to treat conservatives, attended by full-time nannies who see to it that they take their meds.

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LIKE SPITTING ON YOUR OWN HAMBURGER
Posted by: Bob Graham Las Vegas on Jan 9, 2009 11:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like the authors, I am amazed that the Right Wing is even audible let alone visible at this point. The fact that they would undermine any effort is like "SPITTING ON YOUR OWN HAMBURGER", but then again, "Do they even eat hamburger?". The actions of the neo-cons has virtually dried up all monies in circulation which has been the biggest culprit in the downturn IMHO.

When their tirades turn to the "Great Depression" and the slowness of spending for recovery, they forget to mention that times have changed, there are more people affected and that this larger number of people will have a greater effect on the outcome of a stimulous based cure.

What they don't tell anyone is that those with the most money rat holed will do more payback through inflation, and this fact sticks in their craw. Sometimes when someone is holding all the marbles you must cut a hole in their bag to get the game rolling once again. The efforts to short cicuit the programs will only serve to slow the recovery and leave few places for those holding the marbles to enjoy spending them here in the USA and God forgive them if they choose to rush out of the country to spend .

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Stimulate - Carefully.
Posted by: Urgelt on Jan 9, 2009 12:28 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The correct government response to the economic crisis can never be determined if we do not grasp the nature of that economic crisis.

You cannot even be in the ball park with your analysis if you do not address monetary policy.

Reagan's answer to the stagflation he inherited from Nixon-Ford-Carter was to doctor the economic indicators - especially inflation. Since Reagan, inflation has been deliberately understated. This provided cover for an ambitious program at the Fed to flood the markets with US dollars. Gushing currency stimulates an economy but is inflationary - but we hid the inflation behind lies and refused to talk about it. We're *still* refusing to talk about it. Krugman is pretending we are at risk of deflation - which he wouldn't be able to do if the indicators were honest.

Reagan's advisors believed that monetary policy - the simple manipulation of interest rates and money availability - could be used to create a bubble and keep it going indefinitely. They were wrong about that, as they were wrong about so many other things. (Supply-side economic theory is wrong on many levels, ask any economist.)

The fundamentals of the economy were never healthy after Reagan got his mitts on it. High-paying jobs were exported. Wealth became concentrated in fewer hands. The service sector grew willy-nilly, but production collapsed and infrastructure crumbled. The federal deficit soared - almost brought under control by Clinton, but only because of the bubble caused by monetary policy; when the bubble started to collapse, and Bush started his expensive little wars, the deficit went nuts. Toss in deregulation, criminal looting of taxpayer assets, corruption, and Wall Street scams of a size never before seen, and we got a perfect storm.

Now there is talk of the necessity of a vast stimulus package. We've already spent trillions, between Congress and the Fed, to prop up the old dysfunctional economy, and it's had no good result. Now the Fed has the accelerator jammed to the floorboards. It's gushing money faster than at any time in US history, and as far as I can see, the main effect has been to fund bank consolidations. We're getting more monopolies and oligopolies out of it. That's just insane.

I think we need to be careful about deficit spending, because deficit spending just pumps more money into an economy already awash with greenbacks. Our problem is the same problem Reagan inherited, really, only made much, much worse by his and subsequent administrations' mismanagement. It's stagflation. Covering it up with lying indicators just makes it harder to come to grips with it.

I'm in favor of stimulus, but I think it has to be targeted very carefully, and I think it has to happen in an environment of truth. We need to fix the indicators to accurately reflect the real economy. We need to invest in infrastructure. We need to stop the exporting of high-paying jobs. We need to produce things we, and the world, need, not just mow each other's lawns and serve each other fast food. We need to bust monopolies and oligopolies - a business which is "too large to fail" is "too large to permit." Competition is good for an economy; monopolies are bad, it's that simple.

And we need to eliminate corruption in government, and regulate, regulate, regulate.

Obama's administration has not even yet moved in. He has 4 years, maybe 8, to show us what he will do about these things; we can't judge him yet. I hope he'll be dead serous about regulating, about busting monopolies, about monetary policy, about establishing accurate economic measures. But to do all of that, he'll have to abandon the role of "conciliator." There are special interests who will get mauled if he does the job right.

I guess we'll find out if he has what it takes.

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» RE: Stimulate - Carefully. Posted by: jillipooh
We Need to Produce
Posted by: pwrblnc on Jan 9, 2009 1:03 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Until our nation gets back to creating product, we will continue to dissolve. Most of what we buy is made in China and a very large portion of that winds up in our land fills within a year.

We need to make our own products here in the USA. This will create jobs. You would be hard pressed to find anything made in the USA at Wal-Mart or any other large corporate chain. We need to change that.

One of the first things we need to do is make it easier for talent in the USA to get their product to market. It is very hard for a creative citizen of the United States to find a venue to sell their wares. Large corporations, with their huge cash reserves, buy up every location causing rents to go through the roof. Why else do you see the same chain stores at every strip mall.

Let us get back to basics. Make venues affordable by federal investment in marketplaces and sponsored venues for creative and talented people. Bar large corporations importers from being a part of these new experiments by making them "Made in USA Only" markets.

I know many creative people who are inventors, artists, carpenters, designers and the list goes on and on. They are all working in call centers, grocery stores, room service workers, waiters or unemployed. Why? Because they can't get their product to market. The cost is just too high. This is sad!!!

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It is fun to spend other people's money!
Posted by: AJR Journal on Jan 9, 2009 1:50 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By taxing the "rich" and borrowing from everyone possible, Miss Sara will have the time of her life. She will do so much good, because she is SO smart. I am holding her accountable for the success of the "stimulus".
Actually, these spending binges have a spotty track record of working as planned.

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Stimulus, shimulus
Posted by: kattfish on Jan 9, 2009 2:17 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's take that 500 billion and spread it evenly thru' out America, give every citizen in the U.S. a chuck of it and watch the economy recover. I'd pay off my mortgage and that would loosen up my money to spend on other things. Very good for the recession. I watch as my roof caves in, not being able to get a re-mortgage to fix it. I say give the trillions to the tax payers, the ecomomy will recover as I hire a local company to fix my roof.
Peace.

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I have.
Posted by: Beck on Jan 11, 2009 6:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ditto?

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The Trick To Keynsian Economics
Posted by: gradioc on Jan 9, 2009 4:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bush Administration, faced with the collapse of the dot com bubble, was not far wrong in its tax-cut policy. Sure, there is legitimate debate about whether tax-cuts or deficit spending are more effective stimuli, but tax-cuts work too. The problem is that, when things are going well, you have to have the guts to go back and undo it. In fact, you need to run a surplus for a while and pay back the borrowed money. That takes political courage and, sadly, that is what we absolutely could count on the Bushies not to have. "Oh, we can't raise taxes now! Things are going so well!" "Oh, we can't raise taxes now! Things aren't going so well!" No matter what, whenever, whatever, it was never a good time to pay the piper. Keynes' ideas, his concepts, work. Just like Jesus, everybody seems to love him when things are bad. Finding people with the guts to follow him in the good times is the trick.

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End the Depression: Declare WWIII on Global Warming!
Posted by: Gaubladt on Jan 9, 2009 4:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We need to declare WWIII in global warming.

The military needs to commission about 60,000 all electric Apteras. That would be enough to bring back the economy of So.Cal.The commissioning of so many electric vehicles would allow destructive testing and permit 4wheel electric cars to be mass produced; Aptera can now only produce 3-wheel cars that qualify as motorcycles.

Our government also need to commission as many Printed Solar Cell manufacturing plants as are needed to eliminate fossil fuel use around the entire globe! We can do it! Go Nanosolar! Case in point: the Ukraine would love us if we gave them enough solar cells to run their country.
They could then tell the Russians to keep their un-natural gas!

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Tom Harkin D-Iowa Just Came Out Against It! Hello?!
Posted by: Drume on Jan 9, 2009 4:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yep that's right. Key "Senate DEMOCRATS" are coming out against it. Just because O wants it does not make it gold. I voted for him, but please, let's not lose our heads.

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i'm Sure I Posted The Two Words "Love Bombs" Somewhere On Alternet And It May Be Misuderstood...
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Jan 9, 2009 7:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Love Bombs are People Like My Wife and Daughter

Sorry for any potential misunderstanding

I come from Oldham,Lancashire,England and have never been to either America or Israel

Tony

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I'd like to correct a few things.
Posted by: slydad on Jan 9, 2009 8:28 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess Sara Robinson is pretty typical of liberal propagandists. These things that she lists as "Conservative Myths" are not a very accurate description of what real conservatives say and want. Now you may find some Republicans making some of these sounds and some of these are a little accurate but they have alternet . . . I mean alternate words to twist the actual meaning of what conservatives believe.

I would (for the record) like to post what real conservatives believe.

1. The proposed recovery package is too big.

Correction: The proposed recovery package is the wrong approach. Conservative objections have nothing to do with the size of the package. You may hear some make exclamations about the size, but the real objection is that government spending won't fix the problem.

2. If we can't afford (insert pet project here), we certainly can't afford this.

Correction: No real conservative would make such a comparison. Once again, it's not about being able to afford this package. It's that it won't work.

3. It's more important to balance the budget. Fix that, and the rest will take care of itself.

Correction: Only an idiot would say such a thing. Conservatives believe in a balanced budget, but more importantly we believe that what will fix the economic problems we face is less government and more free enterprise. (this is an example of how leftists twist words to create a different meaning)

4. The worst thing we can possibly do is raise taxes. Or borrow the money, God forbid.

Correction: The first part has some truth, but the worst thing we could do is allow the same politicians to fix this thing that got us into the problem in the first place. Raising taxes would work against an economic recovery. Any idiot who knows anything about the economy knows that, but raising taxes is just one of many things that a larger government does so it's not right to single it out as the "worst thing we could do".

5. When you want to stimulate the economy, tax cuts always beat government spending hands-down.

Correction: This statement is somewhat right, but with one word inserted by the liberal author to make it sound absurd. The word "stimulate" needs to be replaced by the word "fix". No real conservative believes that an economic stimulation will solve our economic problems for the long term. Tax cuts along with an over all reduction in the size of government and federal spending will.

to be continued . . .

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continued . . .
Posted by: slydad on Jan 9, 2009 8:35 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
6. Large-scale government investment would inevitably turn into an orgy of waste, fraud and abuse.

Shizaam! She got one right.

7. We need stimulus now -- and tax cuts are the only way to get the money out there fast enough.

Stupid, stupid, stupid! Tax cuts don't "get the money out there fast". Only a liberal could come up with something as dumb as this. Tax cuts (along with federal spending cuts) allow the economy to heal naturally. It creates opportunity for people to invest and builds a solid tax base. There's nothing fast about it.

8. It’s wrong to bail out spend-thrift states. Let them stimulate their own damned economies.

Now this is just rhetoric designed to make conservatives sound hateful. No conservative or Republican for that matter has ever said anything like this. It is counter to economic recovery to put money into an enterprise that isn't working. If you want to throw money into something to energize the economy, throw it into a business that is successful. That will multiply that success and spread wealth. Throwing money on anything that is failing is just throwing money away. But to phrase that like Sara has done here is just spin.

9. This whole Keynesian thing has been totally disproved. It didn’t work during the Depression. It didn’t work for Japan in the 1980s.

I'll admit that there are discussions along this line, but once again the author is being unfair by leaving out a large part of the discussion of Keynesian vs. laissez faire capitalism but I doubt that anyone has actually uttered that phrase by itself.

10. This is a partisan program that's designed to promote the Democratic agenda.

Ok. This is probably the most accurate statement in this list but it isn't a reason for why conservatives dislike the program. Conservatives don't like the program because it will worsen the economy much like what happened when FDR put into place his program.

Man, you people wear me out sometimes. Look, if you want to hear what conservatives think, don't listen to gibberish on a liberal blog site.

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» RE: continued . . . Posted by: violawall
» Thank you Posted by: slydad
This list is totally off.
Posted by: slydad on Jan 9, 2009 8:45 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess Sara Robinson is pretty typical of liberal propagandists. These things that she lists as "Conservative Myths" are not a very accurate description of what real conservatives say and want. Now you may find some Republicans making some of these sounds and some of these are a little accurate but they have alternet . . . I mean alternate words to twist the actual meaning of what conservatives believe.

I would (for the record) like to post what real conservatives believe.

1. The proposed recovery package is too big.

Correction: The proposed recovery package is the wrong approach. Conservative objections have nothing to do with the size of the package. You may hear some make exclamations about the size, but the real objection is that government spending won't fix the problem.

2. If we can't afford (insert pet project here), we certainly can't afford this.

Correction: No real conservative would make such a comparison. Once again, it's not about being able to afford this package. It's that it won't work.

3. It's more important to balance the budget. Fix that, and the rest will take care of itself.

Correction: Only an idiot would say such a thing. Conservatives believe in a balanced budget, but more importantly we believe that what will fix the economic problems we face is less government and more free enterprise. (this is an example of how leftists twist words to create a different meaning)

4. The worst thing we can possibly do is raise taxes. Or borrow the money, God forbid.

Correction: The first part has some truth, but the worst thing we could do is allow the same politicians to fix this thing that got us into the problem in the first place. Raising taxes would work against an economic recovery. Any idiot who knows anything about the economy knows that, but raising taxes is just one of many things that a larger government does so it's not right to single it out as the "worst thing we could do".

5. When you want to stimulate the economy, tax cuts always beat government spending hands-down.

Correction: This statement is somewhat right, but with one word inserted by the liberal author to make it sound absurd. The word "stimulate" needs to be replaced by the word "fix". No real conservative believes that an economic stimulation will solve our economic problems for the long term. Tax cuts along with an over all reduction in the size of government and federal spending will.

to be continued . . .

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» RE: This list is totally off. Posted by: JSquercia
» Believe it. Posted by: slydad
» Welcome to our world Posted by: Beck
» And so for the record Posted by: slydad
» RE: And so for the record Posted by: Cybershaman
» Another misrepresentation. Posted by: slydad
» Tinkerbell? Posted by: slydad
For the Love of Liberty
Posted by: EZJ on Jan 10, 2009 10:04 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please do not read absolute trash such as this article.

Please educate yourself and read a good website like Lew Rockwell's excellent free market website that Ron Paul reads daily:

Lew Rockwell's Website

This article's falsities are absolutely stunning. STUNNING. My jaw was literally dropped reading this horrendous garbage.

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» RE: For the Love of Liberty Posted by: plaubel
I'm a liberal, but . . .
Posted by: eagleeye on Jan 11, 2009 2:24 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a liberal but I don't trust Obama. I don't trust Robert Gates, Bush's father's front man. I don't trust Rohm Emmanuel, a blood thirst Zionist who served in the Israeli army and whose father admits that he's a terrorist. I don't trust most of Obama's Zionist supporters who are at this moment cheering for the Israeli military as they slaughter Palestinians with our missiles, our F-16's, our helicopters, our tanks, etc.

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The Democrats screwed the economy up alongside the Republican Party
Posted by: logansafi on Jan 11, 2009 6:35 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This entire commentary does nothing more than urge people to help Obama throw yet more money at the rich just like the Bush Klan have done already with the Democratic Party fully being on board. The author wants us to support running up US government debt to supposedly 'bail out' the corporate economy when it should be known that Obama plans to give almost all of this paper money giveaway to the corporate sector and not to help the people who most need it.

What a disaster the author and fellow Democrats shill for! Calling this 'talking points' against the Right is pure bs!

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Michhael S. Smith
Posted by: Michael_S_Smith on Jan 15, 2009 3:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with all except No,. 4 about raising taxes yes the well off should have to pay thier fair share but any tax increase should be put off until later. I would make the first
$26,000.00 that anyone earns excempt from ALL taxes, Income, Payroll (social security, FICA)
Federal, State and Local. Suspend the Gasoline tax, all sales taxes which would bring down prices. We should not worry about how big the deficite will get Our first concern is to get the economy moving. Conservatives are wrong for saying that we should only cut taxes and not increase spending but Liberals are wrong to suggest that we should only increase spending and not cut taxes. Once the economy is back on track then we can increase taxes on the wealthy as much a we like.

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Obama is a stooge
Posted by: uncleeddie on Jan 16, 2009 1:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama's bail out plan is the equivalent of curly shooting a hole in the bottom of their sinking boat to let the water out. Different show different stooge.

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THIS IS AN EXELLENT ARTICLE. HOW CAN 42 PERCENT OF OUR FELLOW AMERICANS
Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Jan 18, 2009 8:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
have voted for goofy laissez faire politicians. Deregulation and free market political economy brought us to this pass. I suspect that they are not blind. I suspect that they are looking to buy cheaply what others are losing. At least that is what Rupert Murdoch said. The evil stand to profit from others misfortune.

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What's in a word?
Posted by: fltnsplr on Jan 21, 2009 11:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Although Ms. Robinson has written an excellent article, some of my enjoyment disappeared after I read her description of herself: "One of America's few trained futurists" – and her job title: "Strategic Foresight Analyst".

The former implies that she is unique and ahead of the curve. In fact, there have always been forward-looking people. They used to be called visionaries, and today are known as progressives. The latter is redolent of business-speak, but considering that she spent twenty years in Slicon Valley, it's not surprising. When it comes to promoting herself, perhaps she should consider employing the services of a Communications Enhancement Specialist.

As I mentioned earlier, there's nothing wrong with this article. It's just the resumé that I find entertaining.

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