COMMENTS: 234
Why Prop 8 Passed in California: The Myth of the Black/Gay Divide
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In the wake of Barack Obama's historic victory, a false and reactionary narrative has emerged that blames Black voters for the gay marriage ban that passed by a 52 to 48 percent margin in California.
While Florida and Arizona also passed same-sex marriage bans, the vote for Prop 8 in the politically progressive state of California is widely attributed to the enormous surge of Black voters, 70 percent of whom approved the ban reversing the state's May 2008 Supreme Court decision allowing lesbians and gays to marry. The exit polls showed that 53 percent of Latinos voted for the ban, as well as around 49 percent of white voters.
The state's Black population is 6.2 percent, and it accounted for 10 percent of the overall vote. In other words, blaming African Americans for the referendum's passage ignores 90 percent of the vote.
It also ignores recent history. To judge from social research, had there been an unapologetically pro-civil rights campaign, there was the prospect of a different outcome.
The most comprehensive study of Black attitudes toward homosexuality, which combines 31 national surveys from 1973 to 2000, came to a fascinating conclusion. Georgia State University researchers found that "Blacks appear to be more likely than whites both to see homosexuality as wrong and to favor gay-rights laws."
African Americans' religiosity leads many to believe that homosexuality is a sin, while their own experience of oppression leads them to oppose discrimination. This was borne out in the 2004 elections, where, in the six states with substantial Black populations that had same-sex marriage bans on their ballots, Blacks were slightly less likely than whites to vote for them.
Nationally, 58 percent now oppose gay marriage bans, a dramatic shift from just a few years ago. If an explicit case in favor of gay marriage were made by activists, a multiracial majority could be won over in coming years.
The exit poll statistics from California don't explain the more important story of why so many of California's Black, Brown and white citizens -- who voted overwhelmingly for the first African American president by a 56 to 37 percent margin -- also supported striking down civil rights for lesbians and gays.
The most critical reason was the ineffective strategy used by pro-gay marriage forces that adhered closely to the Democratic Party -- and Barack Obama's -- equivocal position on the issue.
While formally opposing Prop 8, both Obama and his running mate Joe Biden were vocal throughout the campaign about their personal discomfort with and opposition to same-sex marriage.
Despite the unprecedented and astonishing sums of money raised to fight the referendum -- the pro-equality side took in $43.6 million, compared with $29.8 million for the anti-gay marriage forces -- the No on 8 side lost.
The statewide No on 8 Coalition didn't use the money for a grassroots organizing campaign. It didn't put out a call for activists to hit the phones, knock on doors and hold rallies and actions to publicly denounce the bigotry of the measure -- though in a few cases, activists took the initiative to do so on their own.
Adhering to the false notion that the Democrats lost the 2004 presidential election due to the assertiveness of gay marriage activists, the heads of the No on 8 campaign avoided even using words like "gay" or "bigoted." Instead, one TV ad opposing the measure featured a straight white couple, and only obliquely referenced gays at all when the camera panned over a bookshelf with a photo of two women and their children.
In the final days before the election, No on 8 ran an ad with a voiceover by Black actor Samuel L. Jackson denouncing past civil rights abuses like Japanese internment and anti-miscegenation laws, with a slideshow of gay and lesbian couples on the screen.
Some members of the California Teachers Association, to their credit, turned over the final week of pre-election phone banking to No on Prop 8 calls. Kathryn Lybarger, who married her partner a few weeks before the election, describes this and other efforts as "tragically last-minute stuff."
Blogger Rick Jacobs rightly challenged the campaign's tepid approach: "[C]an there be outrage when a movement becomes a corporation? When the largest LGBT organizations look like, are staffed by former executives of, and are funded by huge corporations and huge donors, where is the movement?"
Sherry Wolfis the author of the forthcoming Sexuality and Socialism: History, Politics and Theory of Gay Liberation. This article originally appeared in the Socialist Worker.
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Posted by: cef on Nov 18, 2008 1:16 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: homophobia
Posted by: bizeeb
» RE: homophobia
Posted by: ayala
» RE: homophobia
Posted by: racetraitor
» RE: homophobia
Posted by: bizeeb
» RE: homophobia
Posted by: racetraitor
» RE: homophobia
Posted by: corgyn
» RE: homophobia
Posted by: racetraitor
» RE: homophobia
Posted by: jouifocracy
» Are black women and black conservatives angry about black men living on the down low?
Posted by: Smackback
» RE: Are black women and black conservatives angry about black men living on the down low?
Posted by: Joni50
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» RE: Who voted yes?
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Protect your children
Posted by: Martin32
» RE: Protect your children
Posted by: Karina
» RE: Protect your children
Posted by: Karina
» RE: Protect your children
Posted by: mjglow
» RE: Protect your children
Posted by: Duncable
» RE: Protect your children
Posted by: Duncable
» RE: Protect your children from YOU
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Protect your children from YOU
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Protect your children
Posted by: racetoinfinity
» RE: Who voted yes?
Posted by: mjglow
» RE: Who voted yes?
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» RE: Who voted yes?
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» RE: Who voted yes?
Posted by: Duncable
» RE: Who voted yes?
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» RE: Who voted yes?
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» RE: Who voted yes?
Posted by: Bastette
» RE: Who voted yes?
Posted by: racetoinfinity
» RE: Who voted yes?
Posted by: racetoinfinity
» RE: Who voted yes?
Posted by: jwverez
» RE: Who voted yes?
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» RE: Who voted yes?
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» RE: Who voted yes?
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» RE: Who voted yes?
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» RE: Who voted yes?
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Who voted yes?
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» RE: Who voted yes?
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» RE: Who voted yes?
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» RE: Who voted yes?
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» RE: Who voted yes?
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» RE: Who voted yes?
Posted by: jwverez
» RE: Who voted yes?
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Who voted yes?
Posted by: Duncable
» RE: Who voted yes? Ignorants and Religious Prejudices!
Posted by: johnbradleycopeland
» Gay Marriage should be legal BECAUSE of the children :.?
Posted by: stellabloo
» Have You Forgotten About the Bans on INTERRACIAL Marriages? I haven't.
Posted by: SkeeterVT1
» RE: Who voted yes?
Posted by: alexandrapushkin
» RE: Who voted yes?
Posted by: marmaduke040
» RE: Who voted yes?
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Posted by: tico on Nov 18, 2008 2:07 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Official figures from CNN:
* African-Americans 10% of electorate (70% Yes)
* Republicans 29% of electorate (82% Yes)
* White Republicans 24% of electorate (82% Yes)
Some simple maths with the numbers shows that even if the African American vote had been balanced similarly to the White vote (49% Yes vs 51% No) than it would (just) not have been enough to tip the balance.
Total votes: 12,119,369
Yes votes: 6,322,732
No votes: 5,796,637
Votes required to tip the balance: 263,048
African-American votes (10% of Tot.): 1,211,937
Percentage of Afr-American vote that should have voted 'No' instead of 'Yes' to tip the balance: 22%
Conclusion: It would have required 52% of the African-American vote (as compared to 51% of the White vote) to tip the balance.
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» RE: Numerically ... error rate 3% for exit polls => racist anti-8s can find the excuse.
Posted by: aouie01
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Posted by: SkeeterVT1 on Nov 18, 2008 2:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The time is long overdue to transform the issue of same-gender marriage from an issue of equal rights to an issue of separation of church and state.
It finally took the passage of Proposition 8 in otherwise progressive, trendsetting California -- home to America's largest gay community -- to get the idea into the minds of pro-same-gender-marriage advocates that religion is the sole justification to prohibit gay ans lesbian couples from marrying.
I say that because since 2003, when the United States Supreme Court fully legalized gay and lesbian relationships in Lawrence v. Texas, which struck down the nation's last remaining anti-sodomy laws, there has been and there are NO LEGAL GROUNDS WHATSOEVER to prohibit gay and lesbian couples, whose relationships are fully legal, from the Constitutionally-guaranteed right to civil marriage.
Note that I said civil marriage, for contrary to the stubborn assertions of the Religious Right, civil marriage, which is accorded by the state, is SEPARATE from the religious sacrament of holy matrimony, which is accorded by religious institutions.
It is MATRIMONY, not MARRIAGE, that is "a sacred gift from God." MARRIAGE is a creature of the state, to which religion CANNOT be used to justify denying to gay and lesbian couples under the Constitutional separation of church and state dfirmly established not only by the First Amendment but also by Article VI, Section 2 of the Constitution, which strictly prohibits the imposition of a "religious test" as a qualification for a public office or "public trust."
Proposition 8 and all other similar laws that prohibit gay and lesbian couples from marrying are a thinly-disguised imposition in state law of a religious doctrine that condemns homosexuality as a sin. As such, they constitute an unconstitutional government endorsement of said religious doctrine and an illegal "religious test" on the public trust of civil marriage.
Proposition 8 and all other anti-same-gender-marriage laws also violate the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment by denying marriage on basis of gender -- in this case, the fact that the would-be spouses are of the same gender, as opposed to would-be spouses of different genders.
Gender-based discrimination is already outlawed under federal law and my nearly all 50 states.
Moreover, under a landmark 1996 U.S. Supreme Court ruling, Romer v. Evans, the justices struck down a voter-approved amendment to the Coloradio Constitution that struck down all state and local laws barring discrimination against gays and banned the Legislature and all municipalities in the state from passing any similar laws in the future.
By a 6-3 majority, the justices ruled that Amendment 2 not only violated the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, it also violated the First Amendment rights of gay and lesbian Coloradoans to petition their government for the redress of grievances.
Ironically, it was a bitter dissent by conservative Justice Antonin Scalia in the Romer case that led to the Lawrence decision. Scalia rightly argued that the Romer decision was in direct conflict with the court's now-infamous 1986 Hardwick v. Bowers ruling that upheld Georgia's anti-sodomy law. Lawrence was a firm repudiation of that 1986 decision.
It is also noteworthy that in Scalia's scathing dissent in Lawrence, the conservative justice warned that with the sweeping away of the last remaining anti-sodomy laws, there was no longer any legal justification to continue barring same-gender marriage -- effectively rendering such bans unconstitutional.
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» And what about atheist marriage?
Posted by: bizeeb
» RE: And what about atheist marriage?
Posted by: Lilykins
» RE: RELIGION IS THE ABSOLUTE CAUSE OF HATE
Posted by: Docent
» RE: LIGION IS THE ABSOLUTE CAUSE OF HATE
Posted by: johnbradleycopeland
» UPDATE: You Can Read a More In-Depth Version of My Comment. . .
Posted by: SkeeterVT1
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» RE: Nice try.
Posted by: bizeeb
» RE: Nice try.
Posted by: bizeeb
» RE: Nice try.
Posted by: maxpayne
» Yeah, but there's a very small hurdle that "gun toters" have to face...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Two wolves and a chicken.
Posted by: kepstein7777
» RE: Nice try.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Nice try.
Posted by: sabrina
» RE: Nice try.
Posted by: jwverez
» RE: Nice try.
Posted by: mjglow
» RE: Nice try.
Posted by: jwverez
» RE: Nice try.
Posted by: jwverez
» RE: Nice try.
Posted by: jwverez
» RE: Nice try.
Posted by: jwverez
» RE: Nice try.
Posted by: jwverez
» RE: Nice try.
Posted by: jwverez
» RE: Nice try.
Posted by: sabrina
» RE: Nice try.
Posted by: jwverez
» RE: Nice try.
Posted by: jwverez
» RE: Nice try.
Posted by: mjglow
» RE: Nice try.
Posted by: jwverez
» RE: Nice try.
Posted by: mjglow
» RE: Nice try.
Posted by: jwverez
» As usual, Kepstein7777's analysis is spot on . . .
Posted by: Scientz
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Posted by: nfamous on Nov 18, 2008 4:14 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If gays want to get married I say let them but honestly I don't care because I never have any intention of getting married and possibly throwing my entire financial future down the toilet with a shallow American woman under the influence of the elite's social engineering so I'll never have to find out just how miserable marriage makes people that choose that ill-fated way of life.
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» RE: Being married is not a right
Posted by: Fishbone Soldier
» Getting married IS a right. . .
Posted by: SkeeterVT1
» Marriage is a privilege granted by the state, not a right.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Marriage is a privilege granted by the state, not a right.
Posted by: SkeeterVT1
Comments are closed-
» Are you drunk?
Posted by: bizeeb
» No, I'm just pissed off at people who take freedom for granted and go gung ho on trying to squash
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Are you drunk? No, he just thinks that God agrees with him on everything, to the point of
Posted by: Beck
» He's not talking about Ralph Nader and quit bashing him. If you don't like him,
Posted by: jwverez
» Thanks jwverez. Notice how Beck obsesses only about my vote and doesn't take on sakul72.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: And now GOD shall FURTHER PUNISH blacks and hispanics with MORE POVERTY and IMPRISONMENT in CA !!
Posted by: bizeeb
» RE: And now GOD shall FURTHER PUNISH blacks and hispanics with MORE POVERTY and IMPRISONMENT in CA !!
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: And now GOD shall FURTHER PUNISH blacks and hispanics with MORE POVERTY and IMPRISONMENT in CA !!
Posted by: bizeeb
» RE: And now GOD shall FURTHER PUNISH blacks and hispanics with MORE POVERTY and IMPRISONMENT in CA !
Posted by: jwverez
» RE: And now GOD shall FURTHER PUNISH blacks and hispanics with MORE POVERTY and IMPRISONMENT in CA !!
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: And now GOD shall FURTHER PUNISH blacks and hispanics with MORE POVERTY and IMPRISONMENT in CA !!
Posted by: Lilykins
» RE: And now GOD shall FURTHER PUNISH blacks and hispanics with MORE POVERTY and IMPRISONMENT in CA !!
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: And now GOD shall FURTHER PUNISH blacks and hispanics with MORE POVERTY and IMPRISONMENT in CA !!
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: And now GOD shall FURTHER PUNISH blacks and hispanics with MORE POVERTY and IMPRISONMENT in CA !
Posted by: jwverez
» RE: And now GOD shall FURTHER PUNISH blacks and hispanics with MORE POVERTY and IMPRISONMENT in CA !
Posted by: jwverez
» RE: And now GOD shall FURTHER PUNISH blacks and hispanics with MORE POVERTY and IMPRISONMENT in CA !
Posted by: jwverez
» Sakul72 - You're a Bigot - Just admit that and move on
Posted by: HF1304
» RE: Sakul72 - You're a Bigot - Just admit that and move on
Posted by: HF1304
» RE: Sakul72 - You're a Bigot - Just admit that and move on
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» RE: Sakul72 - You're a Bigot - Just admit that and move on
Posted by: jwverez
» RE: Sakul72 - You're a Bigot - Just admit that and move on
Posted by: HF1304
» RE: Sakul72 - You're a Bigot - Just admit that and move on
Posted by: HF1304
» RE: Sakul72 - You're a Bigot - Just admit that and move on
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Sakul72 - You're a Bigot - Just admit that and move on
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: And now GOD shall FURTHER PUNISH blacks and hispanics with MORE POVERTY and IMPRISONMENT in CA !!
Posted by: Docent
» RE: And now GOD shall FURTHER PUNISH blacks and hispanics with MORE POVERTY and IMPRISONMENT in CA !!
Posted by: jwverez
» RE: And now GOD shall FURTHER PUNISH blacks and hispanics with MORE POVERTY and IMPRISONMENT in CA !!
Posted by: Docent
» RE: And now GOD shall FURTHER PUNISH blacks and hispanics with MORE POVERTY and IMPRISONMENT in CA !!
Posted by: CovertRage
» Max, have you taken your lithium today?
Posted by: Scientz
» What's the matter with you? Saklu72 got your balls?
Posted by: maxpayne
» Huh?
Posted by: Scientz
» RE: And now GOD shall FURTHER PUNISH blacks and hispanics with MORE POVERTY and IMPRISONMENT in CA !!
Posted by: truthvshappiness
Comments are closed-
Posted by: curiousdwk on Nov 18, 2008 5:56 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It may not be Politically Correct, but it is acurate to say that the Blacks caused the difference. That doesn't mean that they are to blame, it means the GLBT population needs to determine what is to be done to educate the Blacks on this issue of Human Rights.
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» prop 8 police state
Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» RE: prop 8 police state
Posted by: maxpayne
» We didn't cause the passage but we did help the cause
Posted by: pnsuitec
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Posted by: jwverez on Nov 18, 2008 6:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Learn what the term "fascism" means, please.
Posted by: Scientz
» Apparently, you didn't read my column or post.
Posted by: jwverez
» Scientz is just a rightwing troll who pretends to be a "liberal"
Posted by: maxpayne
» 1 + 1 = 3?
Posted by: Scientz
» Indeed, It's Theocratic Fascism. . .
Posted by: SkeeterVT1
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» And yet 1 out of 2 heterosexual marriages end up in divorce.
Posted by: jwverez
» RE: TOO MANY ODDITIES TOO LITTLE TIME
Posted by: jwverez
» RE: TOO MANY ODDITIES TOO LITTLE TIME
Posted by: sabrina
» RE: TOO MANY ODDITIES TOO LITTLE TIME
Posted by: HF1304
» RE: TOO MANY ODDITIES TOO LITTLE TIME
Posted by: jwverez
» Deuteronomy 22:5 --> Abomination to wear clothes of opposite sex. (Joke) Females! Remove your pants.
Posted by: aouie01
» RE: TOO MANY ODDITIES TOO LITTLE TIME
Posted by: sabrina
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Posted by: Tim V on Nov 18, 2008 6:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Tim V
Posted by: jwverez
» RE: Tim V
Posted by: sabrina
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Posted by: kateco2 on Nov 18, 2008 6:32 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
check out this website: http://www.straightspouse.org/
Why IS "marriage" reserved for straight people?
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» EXCELLENT SITE. THANK YOU !
Posted by: jwverez
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Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Nov 18, 2008 6:54 AM
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: MHolt on Nov 18, 2008 8:04 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Incredibly after it was proven only after the SECOND time Bush & Cheney were in office and the Christian Wrong aka Evilgelicals were pushing hard to attack any bill, legislation or law they presumed to be "pro" gay, did the Gay community start reacting negatively towards the Bush Administration and the Republicans.
How can any community expect another to support their "equal" rights when that community actively FOUGHT AGAINST the "equal" rights of another? I am personally for "equal"rights for every community. I could care less about someone's sexual identity!
This country has a severe problem with righting wrongs. The history of this country is ignored again and again.
As a black man in this country, and having grew up in the South well over half my life, I am extremely aware of what INEQUALITY is. That is one of the reasons why I left the South, which is obviously strongly anti-Affirmitive Action.
Minorities in this nation never sought "special" rights, only "equal" rights and we still have to fight tooth and nail just for that and even then other roadblocks are put into place to deny us access!
Barack Obama is a change in that small regard; sadly, it would be so much better if he were not bought and sold by AIPAC, along with the usual Puppet Masters but of course that is expected in the political system, which is another story entirely.
Without JUSTICE, you can not expect UNITY!
M. Holt
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» Gays oppose affirmative action?
Posted by: jwverez
» You are lying
Posted by: Friend Of Jonathan
» RE: You are lying
Posted by: MHolt
» RE: You are lying
Posted by: MHolt
» You are Still lying
Posted by: Friend Of Jonathan
» RE: The Bush & Cheney Ticket
Posted by: JoanneRM
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Nightstallion on Nov 18, 2008 8:21 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I personally know five openly gay men who also raised families, OF THEIR OWN PROGENY! Two of these ninny's had large families one had eight kids the other eleven. Does that shoot any holes in your plans to say we don't contribute to the Gene Pool?
Women friends who are also of the lesbian persuasion DO become pregnant both in the old fashioned natural way and by insemination. There is no fault in this or blame placing by me. I cannot cast the first stone. And neither by fornication should any of you imperious, know it all, fundamentalists (I actually prefer DE mentalists here) who never had a thought to begin with.
All of the folks involved with Rote Religions instead of faith are Chorus Girls, they have to follow that line don’t you know? Get out of step and you’re out of the play! But watch it because they play mean ask Matthew Shepard. No apologies here except to his family for belonging to a race of animals, who think like chickens, if it is different peck it to death.
Arne, dear sweet Gov. Show a little back bone will ya? Stand up to these cretins, jerks, and neopaleolithic boobs! The religious right is NEITHER; let the Pope go back to his popery where he can affect no one but his elect. Since Religions can’t stand science or try to pervert it to the way they interpolate things, let them stay in their Seminaries and out of society. I simply do not believe J.C. would tolerate any of the chicanery the Churches have been up to at all.
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Posted by: Docent on Nov 18, 2008 8:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Docent on Nov 18, 2008 8:22 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Docent on Nov 18, 2008 8:04 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The real reason we have this hatred is because of the various hateful religions who insist that everyone subscribe to their religious belief systems. For as long as human history has been around, religion has caused more death and destruction than all other causes and wars put together. Those "So Holy" precepts that profess their belief in "loving their neighbor" - have hypocricy as their watchword. They use the Bible (which is a history book written by man) to justify their hate. The catchword is that "we'll love you IF you believe as we do". Religions are nothing more than organizations of men who have put together 'governments' to rule and create differences between humanity.
Oh, by the way, I'm not agnostic or atheistic -I just don't believe in organized religions and the obscene way they're practiced in the world. There is such a thing as spirituality, but it's not practiced by those who holler about their religious dogma the loudest!
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» RE: LIGION IS THE ABSOLUTE CAUSE OF HATE
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» RE: LIGION IS THE ABSOLUTE CAUSE OF HATE
Posted by: EnemyAce
Comments are closed-
Comments are closed-
Posted by: FundamentallyFlawed on Nov 18, 2008 8:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Laugh and weep.
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Posted by: ABetterFuture on Nov 18, 2008 9:21 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I give two tin ***ts if my married neighbors are dudes or chicks. It's not an exciting cause; it's an obvious right of two consenting adults to get hitched in whatever way they deem fit.
Enter Big Government:
Now the social institution of marriage carries government sanctions, taxation differences, and procedural exceptions.
Duh and Note To Religious People: Your Faith is now centered on what belongs to Ceasar.
Democracies are inherently flawed. We require a Constitution to balance the desire of the many to plunder the productivity, resources, and rights of the few.
CA got exactly what it desired: a democratic means to deprive the few of the government privileges enjoyed by the many, as has been the case with many and few ballot amendments.
Welcome to "freedom and democracy", and the realization that Bush--and YOU, if you buy that--are absolutely at odds with YOURSELF.
--thanks to those who support our Republic and our Constitution, from a happily married practicing southern baptist, who believes in freedom and our republic instead of the stupid institution of democracy and so-called "populism".
The problem, once again, is government intervention in a society that values equal treatment by our government.
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Posted by: Fishbone Soldier on Nov 18, 2008 9:25 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, if the Christian population had gone 50/50, we'd have seen "No" win in a landslide (I can't do the actual math because nobody seems to be reporting the %s for Christians anywhere). So why are the blacks being attacked and not the Christians? It's OK for Christians to be homophobes, but not African Americans? Is this all to cover up the fact that Jesus experimented?
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» RE: Bigoted Spin
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
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Posted by: farabutto on Nov 18, 2008 9:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Black churches in this city have flat out said that there is no such thing as a black lesbian, just a woman who is confused or playacting. So don't say institutionalized homophobia is the province of white folk, 'cause it isn't.
The simple fact is: bigots voted to approve prop 8. Doesn't matter what color their skin was or their religion.
I just have to wonder: why are full civil rights for gays and lesbians up for popular vote? And when do we get to vote on full civil rights for every other minority group in the country? I bet that would bring the bigots out of the woodwork.
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» RE: Marriage is primarily a vehicle for creation and protection of children!!!
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» I am screaming atheist and pro-choice and you are disturbed, so you resort to name calling
Posted by: exhibit
» Oh boy, another foam at the mouth crazy.
Posted by: jwverez
» Marriage the the Protection of Children Are Separate Issues in Today's Society
Posted by: Libertine
» RE: Marriage the the Protection of Children Are Separate Issues in Today's Society
Posted by: jwverez
» Quit your foaming and take a chill pill.
Posted by: jwverez
» Gay Marriage should be legal BECAUSE of the children!
Posted by: stellabloo
» RE: Gay Marriage should be legal BECAUSE of the children!
Posted by: maxpayne
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Posted by: CovertRage on Nov 18, 2008 10:15 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now, instead of being just as racist as the Klan in defeat, the LGBT Community should be out making those well-deliberated, strategically sound concerted efforts to reach out to everyone with the social gospel of how expanding the accepted definitions of marraige and family benefits not only the LGBT community, but every community. After all, homosexuals are not a planet unto themselves. They too live right here on planet earth in the USA. Consequently, regardless of sexuality, ethnicity, and religious conviction, we citizens of this nation share in common the very same community concerns. In the final analysis, there remains ample common ground available to be politically exploited by the LGBT Community. This is no time to be pissy with everyone who doesn't want to join you in trotting down Haight Avenue wearing a magenta feather boa for Gay Pride. Do try to appreciate why you aren't getting much straight support from the offended you've failed to effectively reach, who see recent retalliatory social castigation as an undeserved affront. What is worst is you're alienating once established supporters who avidly and adamantly fight with you for equal civil and human rights for every human being in America.
Let's be reasonable. The assumption that an Obama Presidency automatically translated into the end of Prop 8 was always as ridicualous as belief in Santa of the Easter Bunny. This shameless demand for obligatory feigned 11th-hour solidarity for appearances's sake made LGBTs seem culturally naive, politically disorganized, and selfishly opportunistic. But, not even that reflected as badly on LGBTs as their petulent insistance that "rival" ethnic communities, who are as just as small, if not smaller, with no more political clout than that owned by the LGBT community, are primarily responsible for Prop 8's passage. Furthermore, for the LGBT Community to frame these scornfully malicious charges in the irrational context of long unvendicated bloodguiltiness of fellow social victims, wrongly accused of stealthly manipulating justice to deprive LGBTs of rights and freedom, goes beyond indefensible temerity to being downright ridiculous. Be mature enough to take some responsibility. Instead of putting so much effort into politicizing the LGBT experience by mercilessly forcing comparisons of gay life to ethnic life, try copying and playing Obama's inclusive, voter-educating ground game that very effectively marshalled a majority of hope-empowered voters to support real change!
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Posted by: TheNamelessCity on Nov 18, 2008 11:04 AM
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There is a difference between bullying and democracy. Americans are too uneducated to know basic civics, so they don't knw this difference. Probably because they are too busy watching tv, sports and of course going to their silly churches hat obsess controlling sex instead of feeding the hungry.
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» RE: LBGT Community - You lost - now move on..
Posted by: jwverez
» RE: LBGT Community - You lost - now move on..
Posted by: CovertRage
» RE: LBGT Community - You lost - now move on..
Posted by: mjglow
» RE: LBGT Community - You lost - now move on..
Posted by: CovertRage
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Posted by: jwverez on Nov 18, 2008 11:09 AM
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"I love democracy."
Based on your hate-filled posts, only when it suits you. I doubt you would be saying the same if prop 8 had gone the other way.
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» RE: Then why do you keep foaming at the mouth? You sir are R-E-S-T-L-E-S-S.
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» RE: Then why do you keep foaming at the mouth? You sir are R-E-S-T-L-E-S-S.
Posted by: maxpayne
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Posted by: Crazy H on Nov 18, 2008 11:29 AM
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Defintions of bigot from the web:
a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
One strongly loyal to one's own social group, and irrationally intolerant or disdainful of others
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bigot
Narrow minded or prejudice in your beliefs.
www.godonthe.net/dictionary/b.html
Intolerant person: somebody who has very strong opinions, especially on matters of politics, religion, or ethnicity, and refuses to accept ...
www.creationism.co.uk/index.php/Main/Definitions
A person obstinately and unreasonably wedded to a particular religious creed, opinion, or practice; a person blindly attached to an opinion ...
www.iyfradio.com/reference.htm
Yep, you're a bigot, all right.
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» RE: Homophobes - You lost - now move on..
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Homophobes - You lost - now move on..
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Homophobes - You lost - now move on..
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Homophobes - You lost - now move on..
Posted by: mjglow
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Posted by: Fishbone Soldier on Nov 19, 2008 5:15 AM
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Obviously, there are limits to this. If someone believes murder to be a moral act, enough of us disagree to the point where we can declare it universally immoral. But I think we can all agree that we're in more of a gray area here, right? Your argument is very similar to the one banning interracial marriage. If your morals dictate that you are against gay marriage, then your solution is simple. Don't have one.
Yeah, Democracy's great. It gave us eight years of George Bush. How's that working out?
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Posted by: TheNamelessCity on Nov 18, 2008 11:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is gonna be a nasty fight, too, since the uneducated and ignorant refuse to budge.
Religion is bullshit and it is about time progressives rise up and refuse to be bound by its homophobia and misogyny.
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» Meh. All due respect...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
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Posted by: sirios on Nov 18, 2008 2:33 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: IS SAKUL72
Posted by: Karina
» RE: IS SAKUL72
Posted by: sakul72
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Posted by: lynmarenjensen on Nov 18, 2008 2:35 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: BillWhedon on Nov 18, 2008 3:07 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, if you accept the religious principles argument, then I believe that you will find that homosexuality is, in almost every human religion, referred to as an "abomination", and none of them in their traditional forms, recognize same-sex "marriage".
Gays are something less than a small percentage of the world population, and in the USA that is a mean around 5%, one in twenty. They have a disproportionately loud voice only because their speech is protected by the US Constitution.
So, hey, Five Percenters, if you think it's better somewhere else, might I suggest that you hold your next "Gay Pride" parade in Kabul or Faluja, and see how many of you live through it? Be sure to print your signs in Arabic...
Bill Whedon
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» Ok, by this light what is needed to be done is to show me this text in RED LETTERS!
Posted by: Nightstallion
» RE: It's a "homophobe" issue...
Posted by: Crazy H
» Henry Makow ! I know it's you !
Posted by: GEM-592
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Posted by: Nightstallion on Nov 18, 2008 4:25 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In fact I even wrote a poem about it in 1978.
ROAD APPLE COLLECTION
0' we have gone a roving
O'er hill an' hidden dale
Where the horses' leave their road apples,
by every rocky vale.
Where politicians promulgate and citizenry
quail,
and shirk responsibility
from way beyond the pale.
And while machinations masticate
the parley tickle trail,
but if we'll have confection
on our way to wan perfection then our road apple collection we'll unveil!
© 2006 Nightstallion - Poets.com
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Posted by: GuitarBill on Nov 18, 2008 7:37 PM
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I think we can all agree with that statement. If we can agree on that statement, then it follows, naturally, that homosexuals are endowed with "the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
Thus, marriage is an issue directly linked to "the pursuit of happiness", which leads me to conclude that it is unlawful to deny homosexuals the privilege to marry whomever they wish.
By the same token it seems clear to me that Proposition 8 violates the Equal Protections Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution, which is, in fact, a grave infringement on American Homosexuals access to "the equal protection of the laws."
The Equal Protection Clause can be seen as an attempt to secure the promise of the United States' professed commitment to the proposition that "all men are created equal".
Thus, homosexual advocates have every right to challenge this terrible law in court; in fact, they should have no trouble whatsoever overturning Proposition 8.
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» RE: Homosexuals are Americans, too. Correct?
Posted by: mjglow
» RE: Homosexuals are Americans, too. Correct?
Posted by: kateco2
» Equal Protection
Posted by: gellero1
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Posted by: blschneider on Nov 18, 2008 11:16 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Capital B for Black & Brown?
Posted by: MHolt
» RE: Capital B for Black & Brown?
Posted by: blschneider
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» RE: The bigot's whine
Posted by: Karina
» RE: The bigot's whine
Posted by: CovertRage
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Posted by: Friend Of Jonathan on Nov 19, 2008 5:12 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Institutionalized homophobia in American society is definitely a white monopoly."
The data shows the something very different. 70% of black voters, 49% of white voters, supported Prop 8. Whites have no monopoly, in fact, they are on average less likely to be homophobes that blacks. A monopoly is exclusive control, priviledge, possession of something. A greater percentage of blacks voted for Prop 8, than the percentage of whites. For whites to have a monopoly on "institutionalized homophobia" - homophobia could not occur in black institutions like churchs.
The narrative is not one of blame, except when liars misrepresent the essential argument to suit their race based agenda. The real narrative is an attempt to recognize the homophobia in people of color, the significant moral failing it reveals, and the hypocrisy of a community that demands that GLBTQ people support them in their fight for equality, yet lies about our lives and votes against our civil rights, not just this year, but time and time and time again.
This smoke-and-mirrors game occurs each time there is a vote on the civil rights of GLBTQ people and exit polls reveal that blacks tend to vote for prejudice against gays and lesbians.
The excuse-making simply squanders an expensive object lesson.
Many people of color continue to refuse to recognize or excuse the prejudices in their own communities, not only against GLBTQ people but against other racial minorities and against whites as well; so it is no wonder that their progress toward equality had largely ground to a halt until Barrack came along.
Apologists have ignored, or flat-out lied about how much is demanded of GLBTQ people by people of color on a regular and consistent basis. We're expected to protest every whiff of racism, to boycott racist businesses, ordered to support candidates who are people of color even when they are less than appreciative of our needs. And compared to society as a whole, we do better, consistently, in opposing racism than any other demographic group. Our reward for our diligence in the pursuit of equality for all - the majority of people we have stood up for over the years, once again voted against equality for us.
GLBTQ people were verbally lashed for much of the last campaign, told that we must support Barrack to prove our support for racial civil rights (even when he cozied up to black "ex-gay" charlatans). Our reward: 70% of african-american Californians decided that equality was for them, but not for us, and therefore, helped pass Prop 8. They may or may not have changed the outcome, but that doesn't excuse their crime against GLBTQ people.
Apologists run the risk of freezing any further advance for people of color. The question has been asked over and over again, in many different ways, and yet, there is still no answer:
Why should any GLBTQ person care about racial equality, when the majority of voters of color (70% in CA) actively oppose equality for us?
Why should GLBTQ people care what Don Imus says about black athletes, when black ministers and musicians are calling us abominations and inciting physical violence against us?
Why should we care about breaking the color barrier at the White House, when people of color help rebuild the orientation wall around marriage?
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» Excuse Me, But What About Invisibility of GLBTQ People of Color???
Posted by: SkeeterVT1
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Posted by: gellero1 on Nov 19, 2008 8:21 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What does Prop 8 have to do with homophobia?
Marriage is a civil contract with many legal ramifications. I'm still confused why any sane human would want to subject themselves to alimony and other Family Court abuses.
Want equal rights? Give your consort power of attorney over you and your property if you are near death or in a coma. That's legal, isn't it?
Have a ( selfish ) need to adopt children? Please make sure you live in an enlightened community so the kid is not burdened by neurosis caused by the jibes of unenlightened schoolmates. They are probably ( and will never be ) so socially advanced.
And face this one fact of humankind........all parents want happiness for their children, no matter what their orientation. But there probably aren't any that desire their kids to choose a gay lifestyle. That's human nature. The average citizen doesn't want it to be seen as a totally acceptable lifestyle, even though they don't disapprove it for 'others'.
Opt for 'Civil Union'....same thing, sounds more acceptable.
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» Marriage for Straights, Civil Unions for Gays? Sorry, But That's SEGREGATION. . .
Posted by: SkeeterVT1
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Posted by: sakul72 on Nov 20, 2008 12:25 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who are the bigots?
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» cry moar
Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: veryone of my posts has been deleted..
Posted by: GEM-592
» RE: veryone of my posts has been deleted..
Posted by: ds1st
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Posted by: sickumstrate on Nov 24, 2008 1:10 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a long time reader of Alternet:ten years and counting, I want to say I have always enjoyed reading and digesting intresting posts and articals on this web site.It is the best.
Thank you progressives for providing such intresting and provocutive, (Thoue some times a little strange Ha ha.)insites.
Peace to all, have a merry X-miss.
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Posted by: ds1st on Nov 26, 2008 9:47 AM
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There is no problem.
Stop the WINNING. Please!
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» RE: ???WHAT IS THE PROBLEM???
Posted by: SkeeterVT1
MoveOn Launches Campaign for Bold Progressive Reforms as the Obama Era Begins
Obama's Promise of Change Comes Wrapped in Red, White and Blue
Reactions to Obama's Historic Moment From Around the Globe




