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Election 2008

America Is a Center-Left Country No Matter How Much the Corporate Media Say Otherwise

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted November 10, 2008.


Outside of a few social issues, Americans are firmly in the progressive camp, but that hasn't prevented a lot of bloviating to the contrary.
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The American people are center-left (or at least firmly in the center) on the primary matters over which government presides: taxation and debt, public services, the regulation of the economy and America's role in the world.

But that hasn't stopped a lot of bloviating to the contrary. Only moments after the networks declared Barack Obama the winner of a dramatic realignment election, William Bennett, the conservative icon, declared on CNN that "America is still a center-right nation, no matter what anybody says."

Implied was that it also didn't matter what exit polls, mountains of public opinion data, shifts in partisan identification and changes in the country's demographics say. That stuff's apparently for the "reality-based" community to worry about.

Reality: an Election Day poll by the Center for American Progress and the Campaign for America's Future asked whether Republicans had lost because they were too conservative or not conservative enough. By a twenty point margin, voters chose “too conservative”, including independents who agreed by a 21 point margin. Seven out of ten said they wanted the Republicans to work with Obama and “help him achieve his plans,” while fewer than a quarter of respondents thought the GOP should try to keep him from implementing a progressive agenda.

That didn't prevent conservatives, desperate to spin a shellacking at the ballot box, from insisting that the contrary is true. House Minority Leader John Boehner (Ohio) wrote a letter to his despondent — and shrinking — GOP caucus insisting that “Democrats should not make the mistake of viewing Tuesday’s results as a repudiation of conservatism.” And Republican Senator Jim DeMint (South Carolina) had the chutzpah to say that the lopsided election results only proved that “the American people agree with our ideas...”

These are nonsensical talking-points, but as journalist Matt Taibbi told Bill Maher at the height of the campaign, "You can run just about any bullshit up the flag pole, and the mainstream media will simply stand there and salute it, and repeat it seemingly within minutes."

That a great number of pundits did exactly that, immediately taking up the question of whether the U.S is center-right, is just more evidence that much of the traditional media's analysis of American politics is utterly worthless, and should probably just be ignored out of hand.

After all, there's a good deal of hard data (as we’ll see below) showing that Americans lean left on most substantive issues. But it's also a matter of common sense. During the campaign, the Republicans called Obama a socialist, clunkily accused him of being a "wealth redistributor" and held up Joe the Plumber as an example of the burdens small businesses like Exxon-Mobile and JP Morgan would have to bear under an Obama administration. In other words, they made this election explicitly about ideology, and Obama kicked their collective ass.

Again, that brutal beating took place mere moments before the blathering class started gazing into their navels in search of evidence of our center-right essence.

Of course, it is true that our friends in Western Europe, Canada and other liberal democracies scoff at our puritan tendencies on sexual matters. If America’s reaction to Janet Jackson's infamous flash of boob or the widespread perception that the entertainment media are unbearably smutty were legitimate proxies for ideology, then it might be fair to say that we lean rightward. The only issue over which progressives got creamed this year was gay marriage.

It's also true that because of our history, and some unfortunately vague text in our Constitution, there are a good number of Americans whose guns can only be pried from their cold, dead hands. And, finally, we're a heterogeneous, tribal country, and that leads to some resistance to various government programs not seen in wealthy democracies in which most of the population shares a similar ethnic background.

But on health care, trade, international diplomacy, corporate regulation, workers' rights, retirement security, environmental protection and most other matters of substance, the country is pretty clearly in the progressive camp.

Of course, debating silly distractions on the cable news gab-fests is nothing new. Most of the issues over which the purveyors of hot-air obsessed during the 2008 election season not only proved to be silly distractions according to the exit polls, they also defied common sense.

Take the "Bradley effect." On MSNBC's Hardball last week, Chris Matthews joshed with Newsweek's Howard Fineman about just how much attention they'd given to the idea that white voters would tell pollsters they were supporting a black candidate only to vote the other way when the chips were down. Common sense is enough to debunk the idea of a Bradley effect. Why wouldn't some cracker who would rather have a sharp stick in the eye than vote for a black man tell pollsters that he was voting for McCain because of his foreign policy experience or his position on offshore drilling? Why lie?

Beyond that, the Bradley effect has been pretty well debunked by political scientists and others in-the-know. The term was coined after Tom Bradley, an African-American, lost the 1982 California gubernatorial race to George Deukmejian. In that race, however, the polls were closing fast in the final stretch. Ken Khachigian, a senior strategist for Deukmajian, called the effect an "urban legend" that "deserves to be banished from our political conversation." Lance Tarrance, Deukmejian's pollster and a member of his strategy team, wrote that the idea of a Bradley effect having swung the 1982 race is "a pernicious canard" that's "unworthy of 21st century political narratives."

Even if there was a Bradley effect at play in the 1980s, research shows that it had evaporated long before this election by the 2000s. Harvard scholar Daniel Hopkins studied 133 races that took place between 1989 and 2006, and he found that the effect did exist in recent decades but was gone from the political scene after the early 1990s (PDF) But none of that stopped the pundits from blathering on about it ad nauseum during the election season.

What ended up happening? According to the exit polls, Obama pulled in a higher share of white voters than wind-sailing white guy John Kerry, not to mention Southern bubbas Al Gore and Bill Clinton in their respective races in 1992, 1996 and 2000.

Or recall the Beltway media's fixation with the idea that female Hillary Clinton supporters would be so darn mad at the Democratic party for nominating Obama that they'd be ripe for the picking by McCain? So pervasive was the notion that it played a role (probably not the central one) in McCain's selection of Sarah Palin, a political neophyte with two X chromosomes, as a running mate.

It was largely based on polls taken during the height of a fiery primary fight between Obama and Clinton, but before the general election campaign between Obama and McCain got into full swing. Common sense would lead one to dismiss those results as a snapshot of a moment of of political passion, rather than a dynamic that would persist through Election Day. As Brad Reed noted last week on AlterNet, "Millions of people flocked to Clinton in the primaries because of her intellect and her wonky passion for bread-and-butter economic issues such as universal health care. She cannot be easily replaced by a woman whose chief accomplishment so far in life has been eating a moose."

What did the exit polls tell us? Again, Obama outperformed Kerry, Gore and Bill Clinton (in both of his elections) among women -- and did better than Kerry among white women -- and he also fared better among those who had previously voted for Democrats than in any recent contest save for the 2004 race (Obama's 89 percent support among that group fell one point shy of Kerry's performance).

Or what about those rural voters who Obama supposedly lost when he made some offhand comment about bitter hicks clinging to God, guns and gays? Sorry to sound like a broken record, but Obama outperformed Kerry, Gore and Clinton among rural voters.

Working-class voters alienated by his arugula-munching Whole Foods ways? Yup, Obama did better than Clinton, Gore and Kerry among those making less than $30K per year.

And what about Latinos? They broke heavily for Clinton during the primaries, and there was quite a bit of speculation -- among a largely lilly-white commentariat -- that the brown folk wouldn't vote for the black guy. What might a little common sense have suggested? The Republicans have demagogued Latinos and other groups with large immigrant populations for five years, and their victims weren't going to vote for the party of Tom Tancredo, regardless of who was at the top of the ticket. The results? Obama outperformed Kerry by 14 points among Latinos and 6 points among Asian-Americans.

A bit of critical thinking -- a modicum of common sense -- would have indicated that all of these assertions were wrong, wrong and wrong. And so it is with the idea that America is a center-right nation. Aside from wishful thinking among conservatives, the whole thing is based on a single, weak data point: as noted by the Associated Press, 2008 saw "virtually no change in the ideological spectrum: This year 22 percent called themselves liberal, compared with 21 percent in 2004; 44 percent moderate, compared with 45 percent; and 34 percent conservative, same as four years ago. Since at least 1992, liberals consistently have comprised 20 percent to 22 percent of the electorate." According to the AP's analysis, those "figures suggest that despite Tuesday's broad victory for Obama and Democrats in Congress, voters nationally have not shifted significantly leftward," and the AP helpfully cautions that Democrats should "bear [that] in mind as they take full control of government in January eager to reshape federal policy."

The problem with this was ably summed up in a recent column by political scientist Paul Waldman arguing that "on just about everything, it's the progressive position that is more popular":

People who know a lot about politics -- like journalists -- assume that ordinary people have the same interpretation of [the terms "liberal" and "conservative"] as political junkies have. But the truth, as nearly a half-century of political science research has made clear, is that a significant portion of the public has little or no idea of what these terms mean in the political world. A third of the public can't even tell you which of the two major parties is the "conservative" one.
So, while many Americans may not like those durn liberals, a significant majority of the electorate fully supports the center-left agenda advanced by the liberal wing of today's Democratic Party, with the exception of a few issues of God, guns and gettin' it on.

This should be obvious; the flip-side of Waldman's assertion is that two-thirds of Americans do know which party is more progressive, and not only did Obama just repaint the electoral map running on the most progressive platform in 15 years, but Congressional Dems surfed their second consecutive "wave" election.

But the hard data back up the obvious. Let's review:

  • As Robert Borosage of Campaign for America's Future, wrote of the his group's poll (PDF), "When asked why they voted for Obama, the leading reasons were his proposals for withdrawing troops from Iraq, cutting middle class taxes first, providing affordable health care, and his commitment to invest in education and make college more affordable. When those who voted for Obama were asked about their doubts about McCain, picking Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin led the list, but fear that he would give tax breaks to the rich and big corporations came in second, followed by the notion that he would continue Bush's policies."
  • A number of polls in recent years have shown that Americans favor raising the minimum wage by about a 4 to 1 margin
  • A poll commissioned by Time Magazine in July, found that a "notable trend is the emerging popularity of environmental regulation as an economic imperative. Stricter pollution limits and tax credits for alternative energy development were supported by 84 percent of all respondents, the highest of any proposal. Increasing the minimum wage, expanding public works projects were nearly as popular, with 83 percent and 82 percent approval respectively."
  • It must have hurt the Wall Street Journal's editorial staff to report that 62 percent of Americans said "The government should tax the wealthy more." According to a Pew Poll, the same number favored either repealing all of Bush's "temporary" tax cuts, or at least those skewed towards the wealthiest. Only one in four said that Bush's cuts should become permanent.
  • Summing up the findings of a post-election report released by Public Citizen that found that there had been a net increase in Congress of at least 30 seats by "fair trade" supporters, Lori Wallach, director of Public Citizen's Global Trade Watch division, said, "The 2008 election was a veritable tipping point for fair-trade issues, which just reinforces what polls have increasingly shown: The public has had it with the current race-to-the-bottom trade and globalization model, and they voted against those who support it and for those who say they will replace it."
  • A poll by Hart Research (PDF) found that voters in 7 crucial battleground states favored the Employee Free Choice Act -- pro-union legislation detested by the corporate right -- by nearly a 3 to 1 margin.
  • In response to the first round of 'center-right' country blather after the 2006 midterm sweep, Media Matters compiled a moutain of data on the issue, including:
    • By a 23-point margin, Americans say the government should "provide more services/ more spending" rather than "cut services/ cut spending."
    • By a 34-point margin, Americans agree that we "need strong government to handle complex problems" rather than believing the "free market can handle complex economic problems without government involvement."
    • Americans agree with the idea that "government should reduce income differences" by a 12-point spread.
    • According to a Gallup Poll taken last spring, 5 percent of Americans said corporate taxes were too high, compared with 71 percent who thought they were too low
    • According to a report from the nonprofit polling group Public Agenda and Foreign Affairs magazine, "When respondents were asked to rate a series of strategies for the degree to which they would strengthen the nation's security, the top-ranking moves were "Improving the effectiveness of our intelligence operations" (with 63 percent saying it would enhance our security a great deal) and "Becoming less dependent on other countries for our supply of energy" (55 percent). Only 17 percent said "Attacking countries that develop weapons of mass destruction" would enhance our security a great deal, the lowest-scoring strategy in the group. Forty-two percent said "Showing more respect for the views and needs of other countries" would enhance our security a great deal."
    • According to Gallup, on the question of military spending, "43 percent [of respondents] say we are spending too much, compared to 35 percent who say we are spending the right amount, and only 20 percent who say we are spending too little."
  • A Pew poll conducted just prior to the 2006 election found that, by "a 45% to 32% margin, more Americans believe that the best way to reduce the threat of terrorist attacks on the U.S. is to decrease, not increase, America's military presence overseas."
  • According to an ABC News/ Washington Post poll conducted in June, Americans, by more than a 2 to one margin, thought "providing health care coverage for all Americans, even if it means raising taxes" was more important than "holding down taxes." According to a May poll by Quinnipiac University, 61 percent of Americans thought it "the government's responsibility to make sure that everyone in the United States has adequate health care," while 35 percent disagreed.
  • And, of course, as it has been since the program was launched by FDR, a significant majority of Americans like their Social Security just the way it is; a CNN poll conducted last month found that Americans opposed partially privatizing the program -- a key conservative proposal -- by a 26-point margin.


Center-right country, indeed. The reality is that if it weren't for the social issues and racist dog-whistles, conservatives would have a hard time running for dog-catcher outside of a few rock-ribbed regressive enclaves.

The take-away for thinking people is that while the corporate media performs an absolutely vital function in reporting the basic facts of our electoral contests -- who the players are, where they're appearing, what they're saying and all the minutiae of fund-raising and other matters of process -- most of their analysis is utterly ridiculous.

All the more reason that it's high time we simply start ignoring the punditocracy.

A correction was made to this article after publication.


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See more stories tagged with: media, policy, election08, ideology

Joshua Holland is an AlterNet staff writer.

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Let te Truth Be Told ... Americans are Pragmatists
Posted by: mmckinl on Nov 10, 2008 12:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And that is why they are Progressive in their views. Progressive ideas are based on facts and fairness, not bumper sticker corporatism. Progressive ideas are inclusive and hopeful not an "Ownership Society" that separates people and encourages selfishness.

These figures are all the more amazing considering the size and scope of the propaganda blitz from the Corporate Media that promotes the Military Industrial Complex, Big Pharma, the Health Care Complex and the other special interests that drone on and on everyday through radio and TV.

It's time for all Progressives to shout down the notion of Americans as mostly conservative or even center right.

Great article Joshua

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Shamans! Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: NEWS FLASH! Posted by: Quannah
Obama Stifles Hope of Change on Iran Relations
Posted by: Mystery Solver on Nov 10, 2008 12:28 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted November 9, 2008

After Tuesday’s election, Iranian citizens and officials hoped that President-elect Barack Obama’s victory was the beginning of a radical shift in US foreign policy with respect to Iran. Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad offered a congratulatory statement to Obama, while Iranian MPs displayed an openness to the first significant improvement in relations between the two nations since the 1979 Iranian Revolution.

And there was some cause for hope: Obama spent much of the presidential primaries chiding the Bush Administration for avoiding direct talks with Iran, and cautioned against talking about launching attacks on Iran.

But any hopes for major changes in the American stance toward Iran died pretty quickly when Obama publicly condemned the Iranian government, accusing them of developing a nuclear weapon and vowing an international effort against them, which he would not elaborate on until he takes over the White House in January.

The condemnation has sewn pessimism in Iran, and has cost President Ahmadinejad politically as he has come under public attack, oddly from the same reformist faction that has long called for reconciliation with the US, for overstepping his station in offering a hand to the incoming US administration. Its a limb on which the Iranian President is unlikely to go out again.

Lib hypocrites - "Change We Can Believe In"

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» RE: Here's your link... Posted by: Crazy H
» NYT article Posted by: Beck
» RE: NYT article Posted by: Quannah
Labels weaken us.
Posted by: Nodarse on Nov 10, 2008 1:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Folks, we live in a benign dictatorship run by an oligarchy of Banking, Military, Drug and Energy interests.

As long as we continue to allow ourselves to be labeled as this “liberal” or that “conservative” we will never be able to determine our own destiny. Because, "A house divided against itself cannot stand,"

We can’t be “free” if all our capital is borrowed from a central bank.
We can’t be “free” if our liberties can be suspended by the fear of terrorism.
We can’t be “free” if we’re chained to an employer in order of have health insurance.
We can’t be “free” if an oil cartel has the power to determine if we freeze in winter, or limit our ability to move goods and services.

I’ve been accused of being a flaming “Commie” on many occasions, and as a “right-wing” maniac on others. I refuse to accept the limitations that come with labels. Labeling our fellow citizens’, for good or ill, limits the collective creativity needed to solve our problems. And keeps our rulers in control of our lives.

I’m not arrogant enough to believe that I (or anyone) possesses all the “answers.” But all of us do possess a small piece of the larger solution needed “to form a more perfect union” and a better world.

Please let’s stop this divisive B.S.

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» RE: Labels weaken us. Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Labels weaken us. Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: Labels weaken us. Posted by: Krotos
» RE: Labels weaken us. Posted by: Nodarse
Question
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Nov 10, 2008 3:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the US is center-left on everything except "values" issues, or whatever, why don't more candidates run on that platform?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Answer. Posted by: -matti
» Well its still confusing. Posted by: -matti
» RE: 'radical feminists' Posted by: Lauren
» I'm with you. Posted by: -matti
» Good answer Posted by: socialpsych
» RE: Question Posted by: Don Quixote
» RE: Question Posted by: Lauren
» RE: thanks to you Posted by: Lauren
X pat observer
Posted by: davy on Nov 10, 2008 3:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bloviating is a word that kinda says it all, eh Bill, Rush, Ann, Fox and all corporate shills. The minions of the dark will eventually fade away when we all realize how much more FUN open hearts are. They make the mistake in thinking love is weak. There is nothing stronger. Watching America from afar has been gut wrenching BUT probably much easier than being there. WAY TO GO AMERICA, cheerio bloviators. a Royal Marine asked me who my hero's were yesterday. I replied, all those folks standing in line to vote. O, by the way, the Scot's/Brit's are "over the moon".

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Radical America
Posted by: Tom Degan on Nov 10, 2008 3:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America has become radicalized. So radical, in fact, that less than a week ago, it did something that I dedn't think I would love to see in my life time.

The nation that was litterally built apon the laserated back of the Negro slave has sent an african American to the White House.

That's pretty freaking radical, baby! That's progress, too!

We will never be the same again. Never.

My hope - my most heartfelt prayer - is that this will be the begining of the slow deflation of the conservative propaganda industry that has spent nearly a third of a century successfully brain washing the American people into believing that Liberalism is the enemy of the people.

As I predicted on AlterNet (Don'cha just love AlterNet? I sure do!) over three years ago:

"Very soon, the American people are going to wake up from the right wing coma they've been snoozing under since the day they sent a feeble-minded, failed, "B" movoe actor named Ronald Reagan to the White House in 1980."

Good morning, America! Did you have a nice nap?

Me 'n' George

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

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» Is this "radical"? Posted by: -matti
» Wait and see Posted by: jreal
» A sound policy,... Posted by: -matti
» RE: Wait and see.....jreal Posted by: Basenjis
» It was Reagan ... Posted by: 2thepoint
Don Quixote
Posted by: Don Quixote on Nov 10, 2008 4:01 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans have been duped once more, like every 4 years. Obama is McCain in disguise. The US President is a puppet-actor with a precise "script" to perform, the same for both parties.

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» Don Quixote my sweet Carolina ass Posted by: Moore Hognutz
» BTW Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: BTW Posted by: Moore Hognutz
» RE: BTW Posted by: 2thepoint
» Not Duped Posted by: 2thepoint
» Give The guy a chance! nm Posted by: Bbear41
» RE: Don Quixote Posted by: Krotos
The FCC and corporate monopoly of the MSM
Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale on Nov 10, 2008 4:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is an enormously influential contributing factor to the problems we have in getting center-left opinions heard. In the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, I saw no one sitting at the desk with the pundits who was allowed to talk about the ethics of attacking that country. No one talked about the need for diplomacy. And what about the Winter Soldier testimony? You had to go to Democracy Now! or the Internet to hear those voices.

Americans who rely on television alone for their information are hostages to the 5 or 6 multinational corporations that control 90% of the media.

I've often wondered about the link between all those well-hyped real-life cop shows (starting with Fox's "Cops" in the late 1980's) and the rise of the prison-security-industrial complex. A society numbed and dumbed by watching hours of police kicking in citizens' doors will become desensitized to police abuse and forget all about the Constitution. That is a great way to control the population.

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Thanks for sounding the alarm on this load of conservative crap
Posted by: jreal on Nov 10, 2008 4:12 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do believe they are going to go down fighting their sick war. Their War On the Mind.

They are definately pushers. And it looks like John Boehner is going to lead the charge. Now that's funny. That guys a shmuck. But then again, that's exactly the face of the Republican party. Look at their god. I mean president... that recieves commands from god, or something.

Boehner is the peddler for the coroporate bloc. That's all he does. That's what he's there for. He is their pusher. And he is what progressive are going to be up against. Doesn't sound like much of a battle, but he's stands with trillions of dollars in net worth corporations backing him up. And they buy think tanks and mind-fuck organizations.

The progressives won. The real face of humanity is coming out in America. The chains will be broken. And the corporate bushites will be forced to fight on equal grounds. Money,power and greed - Against the people and humanity.

Finally, we will have a representative in the White House

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DENIAL IS BEING A 40 PERCENTER IN THE USA
Posted by: Bob Graham Las Vegas on Nov 10, 2008 4:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Liberal, consevative, HA the two new N words and used to an even more extreme end. Progressive might soften the hatred of either, but there is still the mindset of each that they are the best and no reasoning will ever resolve the issue. It has taken many years and the solidarity of the Evangelical Cults infiltrating the Republican party to bring it to a head and exactly what cost the Republicans the election and ultimately their credibility.

The remains of the Republican party are two factions which will fight the Democratic endeavor to fix the USA like a three year old biting off a nose to spite a face. The totally Un Godly and hatefull group which portrays itself as the "Religious Right" is the group I refer to as the "Evangelical Nation Of Cults", and will either keep the Republican party in the doldrums or cause a new party to spin off once the founders point this fact out.

Anyone with any sense can see the integral needs of certain programs as the population grows and those who scream "No Programs" are generally the worst offenders of the programs or the ones who use the programs more than anyone else does. For instance, soccer mom's using parks,school grounds , and miles of highways and I guarantee, you do not want to be on the same road once they get a head of steam or in the park when they ignite over their kid not playing enough.

Yes, we all need to come together to solve our current crisis, will someone out there volunteer to entice the "Unholy Cultist Right".

I'll take care of the Barrios and bars, it will be a breeze.

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BLOVIATING?
Posted by: Todd Kimmell on Nov 10, 2008 4:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lord God, how Thou hast blessed us with the English language, and all the crazy American variations thereof!

(Let us forgive the poor Austrailians, and all the terrible disservice they're wrought upon it!)

BLOVIATE, eh? How did I miss that one? Like an exotic yet locally grown vegetable from the Fair Food Stand at the Reading Terminal Market, I'll bring it home and figure out a way to slip it into a stew... where it brings something to the flavor but doesn't overwhelm it with my good intentions.

!

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» Warren Harding's favorite word Posted by: Moore Hognutz
» RE: BLOVIATING? Posted by: samba
» RE: BLOVIATING?...duh..nup Posted by: Captainmagic
America Is Progressive
Posted by: MarshallB in Seattle on Nov 10, 2008 4:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Almost by definition the United States is a progressive country. We progressed from separate colonies to an independent nation, and have been progressing ever since. Some reactionaries -- They were called Tories in 1776. -- may not like change (for change's sake?), and periodically have held power. However, reactionary policies inevitably prove false and the progressive electorate bounces their pactitioners out of office. The most recent reactionary policies have been drip-down-economics and pre-emptive war.

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America's Hate even with the Disenfranchised: Hate defines
Posted by: George DeCarlo on Nov 10, 2008 4:56 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
California is another example of what I have consistently explained, not all traditionally disenfranchised groups care about Gays and Lesbians. And as groups, Blacks, Latinos and some Democrats and Obama lovers cast their votes of hatred against us. I make it quite clear to anyone that wants to be close to me as a friend, if you do not support my having Full Equal Rights you are not my friend. The groups above are not that to me.

As a relative from the Philippines just told me about our first (possibly?) non-"natural born" president elect, his persona reminds her of the snake-in-the-grass dictator Marcos' personality. Of course there is the exception that Marcos left the Gays and Lesbians alone while the restored democracy under Aquino started to oppress Gays by closing bars.

George

--
George DeCarlo, CH
Consulting Hypnotist
908-342-1275 (cell)


End heterosexual oppression of Gays, Lesbians and Bisexuals - support full equal rights!

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In times of crises...
Posted by: 2thepoint on Nov 10, 2008 5:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
common sense must prevail. Americans have always been a middle of the road country regarding politics which is what seems to enable a democrat or republican to take ofice every so many years!

I'm not sure this election was a call for progressive policies as much as a condemnation of Bush's policies and governing style and a recognition of Obama's precieved governing style!

In the end, if it works who caress what you call it - just call it successful!

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» RE: In times of crises... Posted by: Quannah
Class Action Lawsuit
Posted by: Christian Southern Liberal on Nov 10, 2008 5:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I say we collectively sue the talking heads that sold us a war based on lies. Let ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, and FOX pay for the war. Perhaps then they will be less likely to ignore all facts and keep selling a corporate agenda.

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» RE: Class Action Lawsuit Posted by: Lauren
What you say is correct and yet...
Posted by: chlamor on Nov 10, 2008 5:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
you have actively supported the campaign it seems of a centrist-right leaning corporate shill. I don't get the disconnect. Properly understood this "governing from the center" that Obama promises is nothing more than conservatism.

If Obama was the Superman many say he is, he wouldn't need to bring on board a whole truckload of Clinton retreads, of which R. Emmanuel is just the beginning. So it is recommended that you all not naively project onto the guy your progressive aspirations in the form of elaborate interpretations of the motives of the "superman". This will lead to endless confusion, some of which is already evident:

1) "Conservatism": The Clinton/DLC Democratic Party is the true conservative party of the U.S. - as in the party dedicated to preserving the status quo, the most literal definition of conservatism. OTOH the Bush government was a government of the Radical Right, governing very much from its "base". It was a RADICAL government, not a "conservative" one. Hence Obama's victory represents only a political shift from the radical right to mainstream conservatism. From a progressive political perspective there is still an awful lot of swinging left to do.

2) "The Base": First, bringing on board conservative DLC retreads does not represent a "broadening of the base" nor an attempt to reach out to more "conservative" elements of American society who did not support Obama. The DLC retreads are Beltway insiders who are not the "basis" of anything except that of their well-heeled sponsors. Consequentially, honest progressives should feel no need to "reach out" to a narrow group of Beltway elitists - they need to be consistently opposed from Day One. Instead, those that progressives need to reach out to are the so-called "conservative" working class who actually want radical change in the economic sphere, but cannot overcome cultural barriers to support someone like Obama (which, BTW makes Obama potentially an excellent tool for maintaining the divisions in the American working class). The "conservatism" of these are not at all represented by the very real conservatism of the DLC Democrats whose sine qua non is the unconditional defense and preservation of the capitalist system and U.S. imperialist hegemony.

At this point, the most positive relation that progressives can have with the Obama government is to defend it from attacks from the Far (or Radical) Right. The are the one element that is now excluded from government, and they are the very element who will also be the main competitor for the culturally conservative working class.

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the morning after
Posted by: QCao009 on Nov 10, 2008 5:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
William Bennett's intellectual superiority and expertise is a figment of his imagination. Why and how CNN bought into it is an example of how corporate decision-making scripts the "news" to simply reflect what they want to peddle next. Joshua, it's a waste of time and of our grey matter to listen to someone as intellectually dishonest. On the other hand, to think we somehow have political capital after this past election is almost as silly as Dubya's mission accomplished.

You are right: Americans reserve their right to beat their chests, we don't need a Chestbeater in chief. Already we are claiming somehow we are the best nation in the world, and the only shining multicultural light with the arrival of another scripted Horatio Alger tale. The truth is we want to continue to drive gas guzzlers, we want to continue to borrow from the Chinese and still make fun of them, we want to continue to push other countries around and justify our credit-driven lifestyle. No leader will be able to save us, especially if we mold Obama into another pandering stuffed shirt. Just as Bush and Cheney have used conservatives, evangelicals, and working poor whites for their own gain, other leaders will do the same to those who elected them if we the people do not stop the labeling process and start to unite. It's time people who listen to Hannity, Limbaugh and O'Reilly nonsense turn them out and no longer allow the poisoning of our minds. It's time we tell Maher and Olberman to turn the page and change their critical mode into a more positive contribution. Yes, it's time we all change. Voting for change and not walking the talk is just plain silly. The Bush family and others will change on their own as the next generation grows up. Dubya has shamed his family name enough; we just need to be vigilant enough to continue to monitor his plans for his departure, lest he has miniaturized the White House with his privatization schemes and will continue to profiteer from the outside. At least Carter and Clinton continue after their terms to serve the people.

We have wondered for a very long time how the Bushes sleep at night. The way George casts away McCain and embraces Obama after the election shows us how little they care. Republicans need to remember they are Americans first and close out this me, me, me Reagan/Bush era. Otherwise, they will continue to shrink. On the other hand, Democrats now have the chance to prove they are different, and they care. Stop with the handouts already, whether it's corporate or individual. Leadership is more than pandering and labeling those who disagree with us.

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» RE: the morning after Posted by: Quannah
Get yourselves and your friends and family away from the TV.
Posted by: maxpayne on Nov 10, 2008 6:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The less the channels get watched at, the less those networks will get revenue and the more they'll be forced to lean towards the truth.

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Who cares
Posted by: RedFoxOne on Nov 10, 2008 6:17 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Center left, Center Right, Center Center who cares? What difference does it make. The Sheeple have spoken, now its time to move forward and get that MORON Dictator Bush out of there!

Jess
Privacy Center

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The Neo-Con framers are at it right away...
Posted by: snowdude38 on Nov 10, 2008 6:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
when William Bennett, the conservative neo-con, declared on CNN that "America is still a center-right nation, no matter what anybody says."

Projection, framing and lies... thats all they have left in their little bag of tricks.
Allow them to now crawl off into the corner of their caves and assume the fetal position while we pipe in video feed of President-Elect Obamas' speeches, just to keep them cowering in fear.

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Divided we fall.............
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Nov 10, 2008 6:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While politics has always been a dirty business, it seems that since Reagan came into the White House politics has gotten downright ugly, and the American people became more and more divided! The whole purpose was to dumb down and separate the populace along "cultural nonsense" that they want to pass off as "issues"! I say wedge nonsense because these so-issues are really non of the public's business! In the meantime, the government shifted it's focus from hardworking American families to corporate interests! Now, finally the American people have awakened to reject those failed trickle down economic policies that bankrupt families, to say no to massive deregulation that has only promoted the avarice of and for the well-off, to reject the corporate oligarchy making the environment unsafe for us and our children! And yet, those that would continue to promote that mentality recognize it not as insane, but as the "reality" that we as a nation will return to when "we" regain our senses!

I too support life - but I believe that it is the quality of that life that is important! If a woman is so busy working to pay the baby-sitter and her bills, than how much quality time does she have with her kids, and is that not an abdication of government failure to ensure that she has daycare that she can afford, and a living wage? If children are not educated, than does not society as a whole suffer because they grow up to become non-productive, or under-productive, and in the end what is the quality of their lives or their childrens lives!

The pundit-ocracy makes their money from corporate America, and in order to continue breathing from the gilded towers they must continue the message of what their corporate masters say! That no one is listening anymore hasn't stopped them from continuing the refrain, they figure that if they stay on message long enough and hard enough the sheeple will return, after all it worked the last time didn't it?! If the public hasn't learned many lessons from this whole fiasco, than divided we will fall!!!!!

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Well, yeah. We live in a free and liberal society (though made somewhat less so the past six years).
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Nov 10, 2008 6:43 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We enjoy the right of free speech, a free press, the right to petition our government for redress, the right as individual citizens to keep and bear arms, the expectation that we will be afforded privacy from our government, the freedom to assemble peaceably, the right to a fair trial, the presumption of innocence...

...So yeah. Of course we're a liberal "left" country, or, in other words, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights..."

Some folks on both the far right and far left missed out on the self-evident part. Tug them gently, but with due haste!

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In so many words, it unfortunately comes down to this.
Posted by: Tim Chadron on Nov 10, 2008 7:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You are correct. The American people by and large are left of center. The problem is the American government is far, far, from being left of anything.

I hope Obama, Pelosi, Reid and company prove me wrong, but if I was a betting man......

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In the name of pragmatism the british agents are out to control obama admisntration too.
Posted by: avatar_singh on Nov 10, 2008 7:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
British Move In to Control Obama, Deploy "Screw-Up Factor"
Increase Decrease

November 9, 2008 (LPAC)--"I was Minister of State at the Foreign Office at the time of the last transition, when Bush took over from Clinton," writes Brian Wilson in today's Scotsman on Sunday. "It was the most awesome diplomatic exercise I have ever witnessed, or am likely to. Nothing else mattered to the FCO [Foreign and Commonwealth Office] mandarins but to get `our man' -- at that time Tony Blair -- in there first.

"While the rest of the world observed proprieties and stood back while hanging chads in Florida were being disputed, the UK diplomatic machine was in overdrive, having decided all the huffing and puffing in Christendom was not going to overturn the result. They were right, and the tactic, in the short term at least, succeeded.

"A similar desperate scramble will be going on to get Gordon Brown in there, fast and first. Britain has many friends in Washington, and I would put my money on Brown being at the head of the queue."

"Of course, that's what they're doing," Lyndon LaRouche commented. "Not only that. They are deploying the screwup factor, causing such a screwup that nothing gets done."

Gordon Brown himself leads the campaign with a fawning op-ed in today's London Guardian. "The election of Obama has inspired millions... This is a defining moment. A new chapter of the human story is being written and will be studied by our children, and their children, and their children after them," he slobbers.

One of the few concrete statements in Brown's windy eulogy to Obama and himself, is the promise to build "green companies and green jobs as we make the transition to a low-carbon economy." In this, LaRouche said he is following the orders of his boss, the Duke of Edinburgh, the leading fascist and genocidalist.
This Article
from --http://www.larouchepac.com/n

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Center left? Are you kidding?
Posted by: disfasia on Nov 10, 2008 7:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To writer I can only encourage him to get a passport and travel. The US, compared to the rest of the world, is a CENTER RIGHT nation on most every domestic and international issue. Guns, social welfare, education, the center-right media, our credit system, the lack of agrarian reform, the obliteration of unions, and our elections are even coporate backed! And the list is much longer.

I cannot believe that an article such as this would even be published without fact checkng.

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» RE: Center left? Are you kidding? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Mea Culpa, I missed that part Posted by: Libertarian Paternalist
» The defintion of "paternalist". Posted by: GuitarBill
I couldn't agree more, Josh
Posted by: UnEasyOne on Nov 10, 2008 8:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is essentially a PR situation.

Americans have been taught that wealth trickles down; that the road to prosperity is shoveling money at the rich. That any mention of the way the lower classes were getting screwed was "class warfare," while the upper classes hogged a greater and greater portion of the national wealth, forced us all to work harder for less, stole our pensions, shoved more health care costs on us, and shipped the best jobs overseas.

The bailout was a big wake-up call.

It fixed nothing, and we - as a people - can only watch in dismay as the treasury is thoroughly looted by necktie barbarians.

It's time to enforce the fairness doctrine - to get the progressive message out over the PUBLIC airwaves.

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Actually, the Corp Media Agrees with You!!
Posted by: xvictor on Nov 10, 2008 8:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's the rightwing radio pundits who had been hysterically shrieking that the MSM had claimed that the nation is headed left.

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...burdens small businesses like Exxon-Mobile and JP Morgan would have to bear under an Obama admin
Posted by: Bliss Doubt on Nov 10, 2008 8:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't see how anyone can know where America is in the left-center-right paradigm because when I talk politics with Americans I know, they seem very confused about who is the taxer, who is the spender, and what the differences are between social spending and socialism. I felt that there really was a big "socialism" scare among the sheeple in the run-up to the election. Most right leaning people I know continue to perceive the Republican party as the "small government" party, non-intrusive, conservative in spending, opposed to pork, opposed to waste. Most right leaning Americans that I know are unaware of the sheer volume of corporate welfare and how it puts the working class and small businesses at a disadvantage, and they seem gleefully unaware of the cost of endless wars. The mass media perpetuates the mythology of the meanings of left and right, so I think the whole polling process is a bit skewed. I can't speak for the whole mass of the American public, but this is what I find among people I talk to.

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jack4320
Posted by: jack4320 on Nov 10, 2008 10:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
About a month ago, John McCain threw out all his messages except one: Beware Socialism. Vote NO on redistribution. It was yet another rash move by McCain. When you run a full-throated campaign against "socialism," you'd better win it. Inadvertently, he set up a chance for America to say "give it a try; nothing else is working." Obama would never have taken it that far, but McCain did, and he got his answer.

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» RE: jack4320 Posted by: Krotos
» RE: jack4320 Posted by: Von
» RE: My, you ARE an optimist. Posted by: oregoncharles
I have always..........
Posted by: ava1984 on Nov 10, 2008 11:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
believed, or at least since the 70's, that ours is a center left country; however, that has been a hard stance to hold since Reagan and the 'Reagan Democrats.'
After 9/11/01, I watched in horror as this cur Adm. and their Rapepublican thugs in the House and Senate followed Bush, the puppet and his handler Gredal Cheney into a cauldron of blood against people who had done nothing to us. The Dems who rolled over and grabbed their ankles, as craven as their brethren on the Right, made the people believe that there little integrity on either side. And, who can blame them? Let's face it both parties agreed to slaughter innocent men, women and children to make points with the, oh so sacred, people who supported this blood lust in the millions! That very moment our reps. in DC and around the country should have taken a stand against unilateral war! Leadership and protection of the CONSTITUTION should have been their guide; not the Bush Crime Family.
I sincerely hope that next year will be a Renaisse for us all; I do not envy Pres.-elect Barack Obama. Hopefully, he and those around him will use their intelligence first and always and bring the rest of us along.
We the people have, yet again, a chance to get it right; it's an opportunity we dare not miss!

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AlterNet Invaded
Posted by: Last Chance on Nov 10, 2008 11:07 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alternet has been invaded by a group of Republican imposters who pretend to be Left- wing radicals so they can trash Obama even before he takes office. Then, if an assassination attempt succeeds they can frame some patsy on the Left!

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» not really Posted by: Drclaw
» Really! Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: eally! Posted by: Lauren
» "...just talking...??? Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: "...just talking...??? Posted by: aonghus36
» A little paranoid, aren't you? Posted by: GuitarBill
» "...justified in their suspicion?" Posted by: Last Chance
» lets be fair here Posted by: Drclaw
» Thankyou Posted by: Last Chance
» You're all for fairness ? Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: You're all for fairness ? Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: You're all for fairness ? Posted by: Last Chance
» well-you do know... Posted by: Drclaw
» I have a better one for you. Posted by: GuitarBill
» bahh-you set up a straw man Posted by: Drclaw
» RE: AlterNet Invaded Posted by: Beck
» RE: AlterNet Invaded: Really Weird Posted by: oregoncharles
» Yeah, I Know! Posted by: pdxjoe
question on poll results
Posted by: Drclaw on Nov 10, 2008 11:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
great article Josh, and I particularly appreciate the facts and citations. Question-do polls track individual responses or just the aggegate? In other words, it's one thing to say that, on average, 75% agree with 4 different "progressive" policy options. It's quite another to say that the *average individual* supports 3 of 4 specific progressive policy options. The two stats are linked but not the same, and knowing stats about individuals, as opposed to aggregates, might help inform our decision making. Conversly, not appreciating the difference may lead to confusion and misunderstandings regarding the position of the the public. Keeping on with the above example, if all people share the same desire for 2 of 4 options, but differ on the third, we'll all be 75% in agreement with "progressive" policies, but at least at the outset, 2 are more likely to be seen as acceptable by the general public.

keep up the good work

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Very helpful summary
Posted by: oregoncharles on Nov 10, 2008 12:10 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks, Joshua, for a thorough review of the public's real positions. It's a helpful correction of the right-wing propaganda. (One caveat: the Bush administration and 8 disastrous years. The vote may have been much more pragnmatic than ideological. "Change" is a very vague slogan -but perfect for the situation.)

But we also need to compare it with the Democratic Party's, and Obama's, record and positions. In reality, as a long series of issue polls show, the majority are well to the left of the Democrats. For instance, they support single-payer healthcare by a wide margin, a position Obama deserted after being elected to the Senate. Another commenter (kepstein 777: "Question") already raised the question of why we can't get the policies we support from our politicians. I hope we'll see more about that.

Which leaves my question:

What happens if the public discovers they've actually elected a "center-right" government? That's what Obama's record indicates, as I've repeatedly pointed out. So does the choice of Rahm Emmanuel as chief of staff. Straws in the wind, of course, but they'll soon add up.

Admittedly, my own point of view is partisan (Green Party); I fully expect an Obama administration to send loads of disillusioned people our way, as the Clinton administration did. I'm actually a bit chastened: my candidate, Cynthia McKinney, didn't do well. I think Obama sucked up all the political oxygen.

But that all leaves the question of how we can get progressive policies from a fundamentally corporate administration. It won't be easy, and we need to start working on the next steps. I just wish I saw more concrete proposals for action.

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» pls see comment below LC Posted by: Drclaw
» RE: pls see comment below LC Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Thank you, Dr. Posted by: oregoncharles
The word liberal...
Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Nov 10, 2008 12:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...has been so demonized in the popular literature by media Gods like Ann Coluter that people will reject anything with the label liberal. But then if you re-phrase the question and asked people if they support what the liberal agenda actually stands for, most of them will.

I bet if you asked people to define "socialism" "corporate welfare" and half a dozen other buzz words they could not do it accurately.

Talking points and buzz words control the masses.


Granny's crazy videos = Go get a chuckle!

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McCain Campaign=Obama/Socialist
Posted by: linwells on Nov 10, 2008 12:35 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They spent the whole campaign telling us he was a socialist and a communist. Now that we elected him, they are trying to tell him that we are a bunch of right wingers

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» They hate him. Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Indeed we will. Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Robert Reich... Posted by: oregoncharles
Please...
Posted by: Drclaw on Nov 10, 2008 1:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have been coming to this site, posting and reading here for 4 years. I know the positions of more than a few. Although there are some new voices, many folks posting (IMO, premature, overly harsh) comments of Obama are those whose previous thoughts show them to be humane, and progressive/liberal. I have expressed my disagreement with trying to predict the future at this stage, but I certainly can see how they may be, in the words of a previous poster on this thread, disillusioned (sp error here I think, sigh). It does no good to see everyone with whom you disagree as irrational or a a troll (hmm...is that redundant? maybe so), and is not an accurate reflection of reality. Please stop the judgements, especially of people you do not know.

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» Last Chance For A Sane Society Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Last Chance For A Sane Society Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: "doing the right things" Posted by: oregoncharles
America is a substantial progressive left country
Posted by: amacd on Nov 10, 2008 1:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This truth about the vast (70%+) majority of Americans being left of center and substantially progressive was FIRST understood and articulated by Ralph Nader in his 2000 campaign, when he often said:

"Our platform and agenda is by far the majoritarian position of the American people"

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There is something magical about the USA....
Posted by: richard0a37 on Nov 10, 2008 3:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I worked and lived in the USA in the early 80s, first of all in New Jersey, and then in Kansas City where I worked in the Missouri side, but lived in the Kansas side.

That was when gas cost 35 cents a gallon. Huh!

US knows how to get things done. The work ethic I loved. Work hard, play even harder; live music in most of the bars and taverns, always a piano that someone is playing.

I don't like your health care. Pay $25 just to see the doctor and then you have to wait in a room before he finally gets to see you. And the cost of the drugs? Yikes. And I suffered food poisoning out there frequently, unlike in UK.

Plus it takes 6 months to get used to your awful TV, a continuous stream of advertising punctuated with never ending rounds of soaps, endless repeats of bad comedies, and the worst possible dumbed down entertainment known to Man.

I discovered 2 kinds of people - the bright, intelligent ones that I belonged to, and the rest.

But there is also an incredible kind of freedom that pervades the emotional atmosphere, as if one can do and achieve anything, if you have the guts, the determination and the imagination.

US may scorn the financial system, but go to a country like Ghana (in the CONTINENT of Africa) where capitalism hasn't yet caught up, and try getting some cides (Ghana currency) from the banks to spend. In Accra (the capital), few banks will even accept a VISA card, and you'll be lucky to find an ATM that actually works and which will accept your MAESTRO card.

In developed countries, we take all this for granted. There is a price to pay for having the luxury of there being countless sums of money available. You may be suffering a credit crunch in USA, but here in UK, we are enjoying a cut in the interest rates, plus the price of petrol has come down, and is now less than £1 a litre.

In the US in the 80s, you had to be over 21 years old to get a drink in Kansas City, Kansas, but on the Missouri side just across the state line, you could watch porn at the cinemas (so I'm told).

In the US in the 80s, you could fight over a woman in a bar, not so easy in UK, cos we're far too civilised for that sort of behaviour.

I like your police force. The first time I drove a car, I temporarily forgot where I was and found myself driving fairly slowly along the fast lane of a motorway somehow believing I was driving on the left in the slow lane.

Well the police stopped me. When I told them I'd just arrived in US and showed them my International Driving Licence, and they'd never seen one before, they just told me to be more careful. We all had a good laugh about it in fact.

One of the great things about the US is when you take a wrong turning at 3 am in the morning and gradually you realise you are totally and utterly lost, and are driving in the opposite direction, especially when it's in the desolate north of New York state.

As the sun slowly rises, that's the time to appreciate the real beauty of the landscape, cos you see sights you never expected to see.

And there's nothing like getting caught in a raging storm at 5 in the morning when you're just 30 miles from Kansas, and you're driving a Ryder truck with all your furniture and a motor bike in the back, and you have a little 8 weeks old baby between you and the wife on the front seat.

But that's nothing compared to the joy you feel when you finally meet up with your sister who emigrated to the States 10 years before.

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Ya Gotta Love The Nerve To Tell Such Bald-Faced Lies
Posted by: gradioc on Nov 10, 2008 5:09 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What, you mean they would say things they know to be untrue? Well duh.I just love how the right wing claim to revere the "original intent" of the constitution while pushing a concept of executive power clearly opposed to the intent of the authors of that document. They love the Founding Fathers now, at a safe distance of time, but their idealogical brethren clamored for the hanging of Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Madison, et al. They all love Jesus now, but their kind, fearing new ideas as they do, jeered him on the march to Calvary. Just as with the Founding Fathers they pick and choose the ideas they like, ignore the main intent, and then call us cafeteria Christians.

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"Center-Left Country" is a Decoy under FASCISM
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Nov 10, 2008 10:25 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Right" "left" and "center" may have meant something once. No longer.

This story and its assumptions mean NOTHING under transparent Fascist rule after 9/11 coverup into phony 9/11 "war on terror" genocide and unlimited corporate Wall Street bailouts for a FISA spy state.

The labels "left" "right" and "center" themselves actually mean less than nothing when their chief purpose is to distract from the obvious fact such labels are now used to mislead and degrade a gullible population.

If "right" and "left" are propaganda cliches that clearly don't mean what they supposedly do then the idea of "center" is as pointless a red herring.

All very convenient for the parasite ruling class that pulls the strings of temp play-actors such as GW Bush and their latest cutout Obama.

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Hold up facts are facts.... numbers don't spin
Posted by: DaBear on Nov 11, 2008 11:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That didn't prevent conservatives, desperate to spin a shellacking at the ballot box,
wait, the popular vote was won 53%-46%... I wouldn't call that a "shellacking" exactly.

From where I sit, when you have a popular vote win by only 7% with a mammoth record setting voter turnout, you barely one. It's no supermajority or a consensus equivalent. So to base a claim that people are more progressive than the corporate bloviation claims upon the election returns, that's kinda flimsy. Course I guess that's what passes for "consensus" when people call a right-of-center candidate a "progressive"... new speak just really sucks all the way round.

Come on, Josh! 46% of us 'Merkaans are pretty damned Right wing, based on the numbers.

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IF LEFT MEANS MORE FOR OUR PEOPLE THEN I AM LEFT
Posted by: cori on Nov 11, 2008 8:05 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
watching the merciless rape of our economy has made me feel that we need a goverment that cares about us the middle class and the poor- those who need help should not be left to die in the gutter like New Orleans after Katrina. There is such a thing as economic terrorism and Chaney and Bush, hateful, greedy SOBs take our tax dollars and enrich themselves and corporations. Should I still be right or middle? Who gives a shit about these labels! So they've got it down. They take our tax dollars to pay for wars, prisons, drugs and healthcare and then as they are making record profits also get billions of our tax dollars. This is the total destruction of a society and all the hopes and dreams that each person has! Look at Norway, Denmark and the EU for the most part their people are happier. Why because they have safety nets. There is the notion of the general welfare of the people and if that is "left" then I am pround to be left.

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remeber how many voyes they purged?
Posted by: cori on Nov 11, 2008 8:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They were out to steal the election and they purged and sabotaged as many Democratic votes as they could. Ten's of thousands were purged and they were DEMOCATIC- WHERE HAVE U BEEN?

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Denial,
Posted by: lamac66 on Nov 12, 2008 5:58 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That is what the republican party is in. They keep saying they did not get their message out. They did, America just didn't buy it.

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