COMMENTS: 86
Evangelicals and Rural Americans Are Breaking Big for Obama
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There's clearly a new political landscape forming in the U.S. That's what the polls are telling us. It's not just that the first major-party black candidate for President is leading by significant margins in the national polls; it's not just that North Dakota, a state George W. Bush won in 2004 by 64%, is believed to be "in play"; it's not just that Virginia which, like North Dakota, was last carried by a Democrat in the sweep year of 1964, is, according to the most recent Washington Post poll and others, in the Obama camp by at least 8 points, or that he's leading in a remarkable number of states Bush took in 2004, or even that Democratic Senate and House candidates are making a run of it in previously ridiculous places.
Consider, instead, three recent polls in the context of the Bush years. Obama and McCain are now in a "statistical dead heat" among born-again evangelicals, those Rovian foot soldiers of two successful Bush elections, according to a recent survey; and the same seems to be true in Sarah Palin's "real America," those rural and small town areas she's praised to the skies. According to a poll commissioned by the Center for Rural Strategies, in those areas which Bush won in 2004 by 53%-41%, Obama now holds a statistically insignificant one point lead. To complete this little trifecta, Gallup has just released a poll showing that Jews are now likely to vote for Obama by a more than 3 to 1 majority (74% to 22%).
If present projections come close to holding, this could prove to be a rare reconfiguring or turning-point election -- as Wall Street expert Steve Fraser first suggested might be possible at TomDispatch way back in February 2007. If so, the Republican Party, only recently besotted by dreams of a generational Pax Republicana, might find itself driven back into the deep South and deep West for who knows how long, "an extremist rump, reduced to a few stronghold states and obsessed with causes that seem not to matter to the general public."
Among the remaining unknowns in this election, of course, are the intertwined issues of class and race. In this regard, few places have been more closely examined than parts of Pennsylvania, a battleground state in which polls show John McCain significantly behind, but which he must capture if he hopes to win this election, and a place where working-class, as well as possibly racist, "Hillary voters" were supposed to be especially strong. Ever since the primaries, reporters have been tromping the state in search of them. Today, TomDispatch has an interesting twist on such articles. We've sent a home-town boy back to Pennsylvania to offer a more personal view of the race there -- and the news isn't good for the future of the Republican Party. -- Introduction by TomDispatch editor, Tom Engelhardt
Meeting Myself in Bucks County
Pennsylvania in the Political (and Personal) Crucible
By Robert S. Eshelman
In 1991, at age 17, I fled Bucks County, an overwhelmingly white, working-class region in southeast Pennsylvania where I grew up. I left because the life of the working class was brutal and I wanted no part of it. I cringed at the racism and xenophobia that seemed to rise out of the anxieties of precarious labor. I desperately hoped there was some alternative to coming home each day looking as battered as did so many grown-ups I would catch staring blankly into TV screens or half-empty glasses of beer.
My father was laid off twice in the 1980s, two recessions ago, first from his job at a mustard factory, which packed up and moved south, and later from a company that produced tractor-trailer doors and side-view mirrors. I've only seen him cry twice. The first time was during his brother's funeral; Uncle Jim was killed in a drunk-driving accident. The next time was when he and I had an argument about my skipping a night of work at my first dishwashing job. He demanded I go; I spit back that at least I had a job -- cruel words from a 14-year-old with a Mohawk. Recently, the tip of one of his fingers was shorn clear off while working with a shrink-wrap machine with defective safety gear. He didn't push the issue with the employee compensation folks, though, for fear of creating problems.
My mom has worked in the same factory for more than 30 years. Along with about a hundred others, some immigrants from Southeast Asia, she makes small motors that can be used in dialysis machines, rotating advertising signs, or those amusement park games where you maneuver a metal claw hoping to extricate a small fuzzy animal. I'm amazed this type of production still exists in the U.S. So is she, especially since a holding company took over from the original family owners and, in turn, sold the firm to a tight-fisted corporation that's been cutting corners -- and jobs.
Statistics tell us that Bucks County -- one of those places Nixon's "southern strategy" hit hard when, under Ronald Reagan, it moved north in the 1980s -- has been undergoing a political sea change. The pressure of the Obama campaign and its well organized "ground game," as well as the global economic meltdown and diminished support for the war in Iraq have all had their effect.
For the first time since the 1960s, registered Democrats outnumber Republicans in the county. Since April the Democratic Party has outpaced Republicans in registering voters by a margin of almost two to one. In fact -- and this should stun anyone -- the total number of new voters who choose "Independent," "no affiliation," "the Green Party," or other even smaller third party options surpassed Republican Party registration in those months. Think of that as just one more small indication of the utter bankruptcy of the Bush years and, of course, of the Grand Old Party.
With the upcoming election, this heavily white county, which tilted ever so slightly for Kerry in 2004, and went heavily for Hillary Clinton in the primary, may become a solidly blue area, coalescing -- albeit somewhat reluctantly -- behind an African-American Democrat.
Last weekend, with no small amount of trepidation, I returned to my old home in Bucks County, that former land of Reagan Democrats I had fled years before, curious to see for myself just what was driving this shift, and what it might mean beyond the November elections. Think of it as a modest journey to meet my younger self, and to see how both my home and I had grown in these last years. Of course, I was no less curious about whether the pervasive racism and class anxiety I remember so well from my teenage years was now bubbling over. The only thing I didn't expect was what I found - a political atmosphere as quiet and mild as the clear fall air.
A Hillary Voter
It was a crisp Saturday morning and I was in my mom's car. (As on many Saturdays, she was on her way to work before 5 am, and today had gotten a ride with a co-worker.) So here I was, driving through rural Republican northern Bucks County on my way to meet up with some Obama canvassers in Doylestown, the county seat.
This was, after all, one of the four counties that the wonk political website Politico.com has identified as key nationally to determining a presidential winner in 2008. According to the Wall Street Journal's Matthew Kaminski, it is also considered one of four "collar counties" ringing Philadelphia that will decide the coming election in Pennsylvania.
This world, my former world, whizzing by outside the window, has also, for months, been the fierce focus of countless pundits and reporters in a determined search for those white male working-class voters who supposedly gave Hillary the nod and were then endlessly said to be looking McCainwards (and later, their female counterparts, Palinwards) rather than vote for a black guy.
It was the sight of someone in a garish yellow chicken suit holding a "yard sale" sign that made me take the sudden U-turn. Pulling into a parking lot, I noticed a couple of early morning shoppers sifting through piles of tangled denim, corduroy, and polyester clothes, while others were checking out a table of glassware.
Sharon Palmer, 61, was presiding over the sale, a benefit for a local homeless shelter. In many ways she is one of the anthro-political subjects from this part of the state that much of the media has focused on. White and middle-class, she was a Hillary supporter during the primary.
What does she think of the elections?
"Everyone's talking around the issues," she responds. "Looking at my hair, you can probably tell I was a Hillary supporter."
I nod knowingly -- as if short, grey hair = Hillary were an obvious equation.
Is she supporting Obama?
"Yeah, but not enthusiastically. It's prejudice. Not because he's black, but because I wanted to see a woman in the White House."
Then why not support Palin, I ask.
"Sarah," she says, half-horrified, half-amused. "She's got no qualifications and no experience. She's a middle-aged cheerleader with her winks and 'hey, ya'll.'"
A recent Newsweek poll found that Palmer's attitude is typical. Women who backed Hillary have now gone to Obama 86% to 7%, putting to rest Republican dreams of Palin's prospective charm among Democratic women. When it comes to Obama, though, Palmer shows little more than a resigned pragmatism toward what he might actually accomplish as president.
"The financial crisis is a whole separate ball of yarn. It's going to take a long time to sort that one out. But health care..." she begins, only to trail off. A moment later, she adds, "We're realty agents, independent contractors. We pay for our health insurance." It's a seeming non sequitur, or at least an unfinished thought, that somehow makes perfect sense.
How much?
"Fourteen hundred dollars a month for me and my husband." Obama. Case closed.
From the yard sale, I head toward Doylestown along Route 313. During my youth, sprawling farmlands lined this road. Now, mini-malls and McMansions pepper the landscape as if some vengeful God of chain stores and overpriced housing had conjured them up from the rustic soil. The patches of tall trees that remain bear the colors of the changing of seasons -- amber, red, gold and yellow.
Knocking on Doors
Shane Wolf, a tall, 36-year-old marketing executive from New York and a volunteer canvasser for the Obama campaign, strides up the driveway of a home in Sellersville, a town of 4,500 in the northern part of the county. Stepping up to the door he gives it a solid knock and within a few moments a shirtless man in his thirties with a slight paunch appears. Shane asks whom he will be voting for on November 4th. "I won't be voting for McCain," he barks, "I just can't imagine Palin as President."
From my vantage point on the sidewalk in front of the gruff man's quarter acre of tightly manicured lawn and his drab, blue-grey paneled home, he remains partially obscured by the screen door. He holds it only slightly ajar, as if as a protective barrier against Shane -- and undoubtedly the Democratic Party liberalism he represents.
The man's oblique support for Obama may be no ringing endorsement, but it speaks volumes about the political shift that has occurred in this county. A recent Politico/Insider Advantage poll of four key counties in Missouri, Ohio, Virginia, and Pennsylvania showed Obama topping McCain 47% to 41% here. That's still within the poll's large margin of error, but he was startlingly stronger among the county's sizeable group of self-defined "independents" (46%-32%). Among 30-44 year-olds like the man Shane has just canvassed, he is leading by a whopping 12 points (49%-37%).
And keep in mind that his was the least welcoming reception Shane got while I was following him that afternoon. As we made our way through endless cul-de-sacs of near identical aluminum-sided homes, I felt ever more amazed that this was the place I so desperately fled as a teenager.
While we drive to another corner of Sellersville, Shane relates campaign stories. "Once, I knocked on a door and the guy asked me if I was from New York. I thought he was going to punch me. By the way, he was Republican. Instead, he said that he was voting for a Democrat for the first time since Kennedy." As Shane remarked, the average age in that heavily Republican community must have been 127, and yet many of the conservative homeowners were remarkably willing to give his Obama pitch a solid listen.
Has he dealt with any racism while canvassing for Obama? "I think the n-word was used once. I was stunned."
I, of course, was stunned for a different reason. Here was Shane -- an out-of-town Democrat -- alone and door-knocking for an African-American candidate in this Republican stronghold and yet he hadn't faced a flurry of racial invectives or even many stern skeptics. What on Earth was going on?
By the time we make it back to Doylestown, it's late afternoon and the Obama office is teeming with volunteers. Groups of late morning and early afternoon canvassers have returned and are milling about, drinking coffee, and swapping stories from the field. I've been around political campaigns before and this one definitely has the wind at its back.
Shane and I retire to a nearby café, where I ask him how he thought the day went and how well, in his assessment, the campaign is connecting with Bucks County voters. "No one slammed the door," he replies, chuckling. Then he adds in all seriousness: "As the campaign has reached out to traditionally Republican voters, they've begun to realize that it's time to set aside how they feel about social issues. Eight years of Bush's failed policies have created a perfect storm, capped off by this economic meltdown. There's something that matters more to them now than how often the candidates go to church."
What Shane has pinpointed is Thomas Frank's well-known description of Republican Party dominance in Kansas -- but in reverse. After decades of being hooked on the values embodied by the Christian Coalition, values which powered the Reagan Revolution, many voters in Bucks County now seem understandably focused on bread-and-butter concerns -- wages, health care, and the economy. If this is the bellwether political battleground that so many pundits and journalists make it out to be, then a mass defection from the Republican Party is underway. It's no longer a matter of a single candidate's inability to connect with voters, but perhaps a wholesale rejection of what the party has to offer.
"The economy is definitely the number one issue for everyone here," Shane says. "I don't hear people talking about gay marriage."
Being Undecided
Bruce Hellerick's 36-acre family farm is a short drive from Obama headquarters. For six generations the Hellerick family has been farming here, and for the last 35 years, they've been selling produce to passers-by. This time of year, the farm becomes a quasi-amusement park with a children's play area, where part-time teenage workers entertain kids, and up the hill, three corn mazes cut into a bounty of six-foot-high yellowing stalks.
Bruce assures me he's a staunch Republican, but also admits he remains undecided about November 4th. "Usually I'm decided by now," he says, smiling congenially. "The experience McCain has with the military and what-not really brings a lot to the table." On the other hand, he continues, "Obama's got a great vision, but I'm concerned about the people he's been associated with." As for McCain's running-mate: "Sarah's very charismatic, but I don't know about the folksy thing."
During our conversation he manages to use the word "family" and "tradition" so many times that I lose count. How is it, I wonder, that Bruce, so inextricably involved in ideas of family and tradition and so concerned about Obama's associations with fiery black pastors and Sixties radicals, can still remain on the fence only two weeks before Election Day? Two days of talking in Bucks County left me with the impression that one blended "family," the Republican one, was certainly disintegrating under the pressures of a new era.
Up the hill, two women are seated on a picnic bench by a corn maze. Wendy Walters, a 45-year-old hair stylist, is, like Bruce, a Republican and, as she quickly informs me, a hearty supporter of school vouchers. Yet she seems to have caught the virus of indecision too. She's just not sure what she's going to do when she steps into that polling booth. McCain's "issues seem to follow Bush," while Obama "is a book with a pretty cover and blank pages." So she tells me either/or-ing away. Across the table, her friend Tracy Northrop, 41 and a homemaker, is also Republican... and also undecided. "I don't like either one very much. I'm a Republican but I don't always vote that way. I'm very undecided. I think McCain is out of touch with the people. And Palin makes me really afraid."
Earlier in the day, while driving to Sellersville, I asked Shane about Bucks County's legions of undecided voters. He thought they understood something had to change, but haven't quite gotten to the point where they can admit, even to themselves, that they will vote for Obama. Bruce, Wendy, and Tracy give weight to Shane's theory that Republican defectors may inch toward voting for Obama. They could prove to be a reverse "Bradley Effect" -- Republicans who won't tell pollsters, or even maybe their friends, what they're going to do, but might quietly opt Democrat in this election.
But will they? While the Republican Party's support among voters here is visibly crumbling, there's also deep skepticism about the Democrats, particularly Obama himself. Do the concerns I repeatedly heard about Obama's "associations" or his "experience" serve as coded stand-ins for saying that he's black and will not get my support? Regardless of what these voters decide, though, dark days lie ahead for the GOP.
"Execute All of Them"
The Quakertown Farmers Market, deeded in 1764 by the sole American-born son of Pennsylvania's founder William Penn, sits just east of Route 309, a four-lane road that connects Bucks County to Philadelphia. All along its narrow corridors are signs on which a Quaker in buckled shoes raises an auctioneer's gavel, a reminder that farmer's used to gather here to sell their goods and that this was once among the leading agricultural counties in the country.
The market's once robust trade in livestock is now a distant memory. An eclectic assortment of discount shops and cheap food stalls lines the corridors that cut through this quarter-mile-long structure with names like The Teriyaki Chef, Latin Flavor, and As Seen On TV, which offers, just as its name implies, cheap goods advertised on late night television.
There's even a Kenyan restaurant, not to speak of shops selling all the fake leather cell-phone covers anyone could ever desire. It's a vision of the new Bucks County and maybe even a new America. A community and a nation increasingly inhabited by new immigrants and charmed by cheap goods made by other underpaid workers halfway around the world. It's a political universe that, this year at least, the Republican Party seems not to have a clue about how to tackle.
In aisles where classic Philly cheesesteaks are served up next to lo mein noodles and discount plastics from who knows where, Allie, a registered independent and a strong supporter of Pennsylvania's senior senator, Republican Arlen Specter, shows no Republican-style either/or equivocation. She's going to vote for Obama, even though, as she rushes to assure me, she's "not crazy about either side." She actually expresses relief, though, that someone "intellectual" might preside over the country after eight years of George W.
At the opposite end of the mart, John Lewis becomes irate the moment I utter Obama's name. "I don't believe in Robin Hood," he says emphatically, "taking from the rich in order to give to the poor. Obama, he's an unknown quality. There's too much we don't know about him." Then, in a sudden burst, John exclaims: "Execute all of them for what they've done with this bailout! Frank, Pelosi, and all those guys. They should get the guillotine. Enron -- those guys did one one-hundredth what they did and they all went to jail. My kids, my grandkids are going to be paying for this. Those people that took out those mortgages couldn't afford the houses they bought."
Here he was -- the man I had expected to meet and who, in abstract form, has been at the center of my recollections of Bucks County since the day I left. But I had been here for a weekend, talked to dozens of people during a hotly contested election in a time of widespread anxiety, yet only hours before I was to head home did I finally meet the angry white man.
Everyone else I ran into seemed strangely subdued at the very moment this nation is supposedly on the cusp of historic change, if not at the precipice. Had all the rest of the angry white guys of my youth taken momentary shelter beneath rocks in the county's much diminished hinterlands?
Leaving Home Again
It's always tough visiting home. On my last day, I strolled with my mother around a shopping center nestled in one of the county's more upscale areas near the Delaware River. Perhaps it was a sign of bleak economic times, but -- eerily enough -- the two of us were just about the only ones there late on a Sunday morning. As we walked by brand-name discount stores vacant of customers, we began to talk about why I split all those years ago. It was, of course, a private conversation, but interlaced -- as I suspect so many are right now all over the country -- with comments about the upcoming election, about whether race will really matter, whether those working-class white votes will go to Obama or not, and whether any of it matters down the road, when it comes to wages or the possibility that, someday, decent health care will really be widely available.
Our private discussion was old hat for us. She insists I left town because the big city beckoned. I insist my flight represented a gut urge to find something more than a job in a factory that would shutter sooner or later and a desire to find a place where people weren't always calling the few blacks or Asians in the area any number of epithets, or simply pretending they didn't exist.
She swore I was overplaying both the racism and the economic distress -- that the problem was me, not where I grew up.
By now, as mothers facing obdurate children are wont to do, my mom was seething and so she began walking ever faster, clutching tightly at the strap of the handbag slung over her shoulder. Having outpaced me, she suddenly turned and blurted out: "You know, not everyone here is like that. Why do you want to focus on the bad stuff when lots of things have changed since you left?"
It was, in truth, a good question. And then, uncoiling from her anger, she gave me a brief personal history lesson: "You know, when I was a kid, there were two girls who dated black guys. People treated them like hookers. Today, you see mixed couples walking around all the time and nobody says anything." And who can deny it -- except the Republican Party? We are in a different world.
Still, I wasn't completely convinced, not by her, or even by my weekend on the Obama trail. Still, as sons are wont to do, I let it go. After all, I was back in Bucks County and puzzled by what the undeniable recent political shift there meant -- beyond an indictment of the Republican Party. And, maybe, that's all I can say.
With the exception of the fellow who wanted to "execute" them all, there was such a muted, tamped-down feel to my encounters, made only more awkward by the fact that I was walking around like the other journalists scouring the county, pad and pen in hand. No longer a home-town boy visiting mom and dad, I had morphed into a college-educated thirty-something exploring anthropological oddities from a by-gone era of manufacturing jobs and Reagan conservativism. And yet that was hardly the way it felt to me as I crisscrossed that haunted landscape.
Of course, the Obama supporters were pumped up on canvassing day, while the air in the sparsely staffed Republican offices I visited was filled with the desperation of an animal caught in a trap. If Obama doesn't take the county, judging by the number of new, energized voters and the radioactivity of the Republican Party, I'll be shocked. But, of one thing I'm sure, that's only part -- maybe the least part -- of what's going on here.
The rest, I don't know. And that includes myself. I no longer feel at home here, if I ever did, among my people -- the white working class -- at the very moment when I probably should. After all, I know something no reporter from elsewhere knows. I know that the past is always buried in the present, and if I need a reminder, I only have to look at my mom -- and then myself. For her, however much Bucks County is changing, in basic ways it hasn't changed very much at all. She still works six days a week, often ten hours a day, at a job that may be gone tomorrow and, as I did at age 17, I'm again hopping on a train, leaving Bucks County behind.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: Jay Randal on Oct 30, 2008 1:39 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: CORRECTION!
Posted by: Cynic13
» Right!! It ain't over 'till it's over.....keep on fighting until the last minute!!
Posted by: Elendil
» RE: Will undecided voters actually vote for Obama on Tuesday?
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Will undecided voters actually vote for Obama on Tuesday?
Posted by: hms2004
» RE: Will undecided voters actually vote for Obama, after redistribution for slave reparations.
Posted by: symcokid
» Oh, sweet JESUS who said anything about slave reparations??!!
Posted by: kimbari
» Tell your pastor one thing, actually vote the other way
Posted by: PaulK
» RE: Will undecided voters actually vote for Obama on Tuesday?
Posted by: john mont
» THE RACISM CARD IS TRUMPED BY ECONOMIC REALITY - But not for all
Posted by: becky141
» Amazing what a Depression can do
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» 6% of Floridians who have already voted are undecided...
Posted by: leafsong1
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Posted by: phillyfinest on Oct 30, 2008 1:48 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You'd have to be nuts to go with Mad McCain!
http://tv1.com/playlists/show/11
His behavior and actions throughout his campaign have been ERRATICQ
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» RE: It's no wonder the GOP stronghold is fleeing from McCain-Palin!
Posted by: willymack
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Posted by: phillyfinest on Oct 30, 2008 1:49 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You'd have to be nuts to go with Mad McCain!
http://tv1.com/playlists/show/11
His behavior and actions throughout his campaign have been ERRATICQ
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» RE: It's no wonder the GOP stronghold is fleeing from McCain-Palin!
Posted by: willymack
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Posted by: AndyGra111 on Oct 30, 2008 2:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Figfest on Oct 30, 2008 3:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let me the first to coin the expression "reverse Bradley". I predict that this year there will be many whites afraid to admit publicly that they're supporting Obama because of their abusive friends, relatives, colleagues, but once they get in the voting booth....
I'm happy that my hunch appears to have substance.
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» RE: everse Bradley
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Reverse Bradley
Posted by: Sushi
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Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Oct 30, 2008 4:00 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Polls, schmolls
Posted by: cjgee
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Posted by: Ottomatic on Oct 30, 2008 4:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
McCain wants a TAX cut for himself and
Billionaires-R-US.
Socialized medicine and being on the government dole his whole life is fine for him,
But!
None 4 you.
We are being held
Prisoners in our own Country
and
McCain is the Warden.
He will do anything to be President.
Who counts the VOTES?
A Couple of Crooked Corp-pirates!
THE FIX IS IN,
Wink, Wink!
After years of Spying, Lying, terror, Treason and Propaganda
BU__! SH__!
What makes you think they're going to stop NOW?
No!
The WAR must go on and
The Delusion must continue.
Who will pay the price?
We will, until we stop it once and for all.
REVOLUTION #9
The Micro-Democracy Revolution
Surge
Purge
Update and
REBOOT!
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» RE: McCains Mutany! People are fed up with the same old Lies!
Posted by: Liam
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Oct 30, 2008 4:11 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Spend 8 yrs (Or more) being supporter & defender and find out they were Yankin your chain.It's the type of slap in th eface that not only knocks off your Rose colored glasses, but crushes them.
The Republican Party screwed the Rural communities in the '80's when they allowed Big Agri Biz to force & Swindle Family farmers out of Business.Farming is NOT a Job you merely do for the Money- It's a Lifestyle, a committment and a source of personal Pride and Fortitude.
Since then our food has cost more, quality has gone down, Animal husbandry has taken a back seat to prodcution, While food borne illness have increased in numbers,Types,Severity and geographics.This Corp farming has failed, and we must return our food production to those who know and CARE about what they are doing,for them, Ourselves and the Animals.
As for the 'Fatihful' I think the revelation to what some of these so called 'Evangelicals' have been preaching has exposed the reality that 'Christian' is a very General Term nowadays. Of course it always has been; Catholic, Protestants, Lutherans, LDS,Pentacostals, episcopalians, Presbyterians,Baptists,Methodists,Born agains, Evangelicals, and their off shoot the End of Dayers.Mostly there are relatively small differences, but in others there are VAST differences and they are beginning to realize the term 'Chrisitan' does not necessary mean they all share the same concepts.I'm not sure All Chrisitians Appreciate being associated with these 'End of Dayers'- which has been bore out over history too. Most Believe it is NOT their Priviledge to 'Call' the End, nor feel it is their right to Work Towards It.
I'm thinking Self anointed Self Promoters like Hagee has brought that fact back to the forefront of peoples minds and has caused them to begin to differeniate between the various forms of 'Christianity'. Or perhaps it was the LDS scandal when they started to realize that the term 'Chrisitan' can be quite vague, and encompass some doctrines and practice they do not.
Not to mention the fact that the republican party has spent 30 yrs saying they would end Abortion...Yet the numbers keep climbing- Abstinence ONLY education? I think many are beginning to realize if we do Not Try to reduce Unwanted pregnacies to begin with, we not only increase the likilhood of abortions, we also increase other social problems (Poverty, abuse/neglect etc).
What also has put a nail in the coffin of Repugs is the fact they have Devastated our Economy (increased homelessness, poverty, unemployment) and Continue to Wage blood For Oil Wars - Not a Value Jesus would have supported.Nor would He have supported the Hate camapign tactics of John McCain
What Would Jesus Do?....Vote for Obama.
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» RE: ealized they were used & manipulated by the Repugs?
Posted by: willymack
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Posted by: USAFVeteran1966 on Oct 30, 2008 5:09 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The idea of a McCain victory and the catastrophic division it would create in America was so horrifying, I wished for a moment that Obama had not run his heart-tugging infomercial.
The sudden sensation of dread faded quickly, however, and once again I felt good. Still, I won't breathe easy until the election is over with Barack declared our future 43rd president -- thank God!
.
Vietnam vet/Obama supporter
Eight reasons to vote against John McCain
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» TYPO CORRECTION: 43rd should be 44th, of course.
Posted by: USAFVeteran1966
» RE: TYPO CORRECTION: 43rd should be 44th, of course.
Posted by: DR. LARRY MITCHELL
» RE: Senator Obama's Wednesday night infomercial scared the hell out of me.
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» This country, these people really don't *deserve* Obama...
Posted by: kimbari
» RE: This country, these people really don't *deserve* Obama...
Posted by: willymack
» Actually, a lot of us do
Posted by: Karina
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Posted by: beachcomberT on Oct 30, 2008 5:25 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: upstate NY observation
Posted by: babs
Comments are closed-
Posted by: taxidriver on Oct 30, 2008 5:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama will never win these people over, because they are victims of their own "values" or prejudices.
But Obama is winning over those who are willing to think beyond the misleading attack ads of the NRA and the GOP.
Will it be enough? We'll see on Nov. 4th.
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» RE: rural MI and Obama
Posted by: Beck
» RE: ural PA and Obama
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Rural Nebraska and Obama
Posted by: zooeyhall
» Obama's not winning me over.
Posted by: Spot
» RE: ural PA and Obama
Posted by: jackyD
Comments are closed-
Posted by: RedFoxOne on Oct 30, 2008 5:56 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jiff
Privacy Center
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Posted by: Farasien on Oct 30, 2008 6:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wait until the eggs hatch. Though (as usual) I hope like hell that I'm wrong, I'm betting there's going to be less to celebrate on Novermber 5'th than most people think.
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» RE: Don't count those chickens yet...
Posted by: VZEQICVA
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ZPaul on Oct 30, 2008 6:31 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Expect dirty tricks.
We need a big, clear win to neutralize those dirty tricks.
We need to have such a clear Obama victory that the Republicans will hang their heads in shame at even the thought of contesting it.
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» RE: We Need a Resounding Victory for Obama
Posted by: hohensayner
» Wrong.
Posted by: Spot
Comments are closed-
Posted by: whathappened on Oct 30, 2008 6:53 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
BUT.....that did not happen.
Very upset....very depressed.....
Many many signs up for McCain in rural Indiana!
Somebody please "talk me down" and cheer me up!
Sorry to be so glass-half-empty.
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» RE: I am getting very nervous...Can't talk you down about conservative dirty tricks, but. . .
Posted by: Beck
» RE: I am getting very nervous...Can't talk you down about conservative dirty tricks, but. . .
Posted by: helenahanbasquet
» RE: I am getting very nervous...Can't talk you down about conservative dirty tricks, but. . .
Posted by: Beck
» RE: I am getting very nervous...Can't talk you down about conservative dirty tricks, but. . .
Posted by: helenahanbasquet
» RE: I am getting very nervous...Can't talk you down about conservative dirty tricks, but. . .
Posted by: Sushi
» That is a great proposal, publicize it immediately!
Posted by: benzene
» RE: I am getting very nervous...
Posted by: bookie
» RE: I am getting very nervous...
Posted by: babs
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Emily678 on Oct 30, 2008 7:04 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Are you related to Ron Eshelman? He was my chemistry teacher at Claymont (DE) High School. Great teacher!
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Posted by: picket on Oct 30, 2008 7:06 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Strong Progressives in NYS who want to send a message to both parties can vote in NYS on the Working Families Party .."Row E" and it WILL be a vote for Obama as he is their candidate.
New York is one of a few states that has "fusion voting" where you can vote "Row E" for Obama, holding both the Dems and Repubs to MORE economic, social and environmental justice without throwing your vote away.
Do not throw your vote away in NYS by voting for that "other" third party candidate just to make a statement.
Vote Obama in New York on the Working Families Party.
http://www.workingfamiliesparty.org/
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Posted by: stardustdrifter on Oct 30, 2008 7:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It was satisfying to read the author's thoughts and recognize the truth in his words. Yes it's a bit surprising to me that he found the county leaning toward Obama, except I know these 'down to earth' Americans just don't suffer fools gladly. It's encouraging to read they are setting aside their traditional politics and voting for the qualified leader Obama so obviously is, rejecting the negative alternative.
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Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 30, 2008 7:27 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well? Maybe a lot of these otherwise bible thumping evangelicals finally got some mental counseling or learned their lessons the very hard way and decided to try something else for a change. However, I still believe that the only reason they're jumping for Obama and not folks such as Paul, Kucinich, Nader, Mckinney, etc ... is simple. Obama made the WRONG choice to be part of the system that squashes him once in Washington. Yes, he even went out of his mind to talk to evangelies and even pander to them such as extending Bush's faith based shit by providing more Christian bootcamps which my wife and I loathe and would never allow our children to be dragged into. I don't know what Obama will be like as president but he had better change his ways because his 4 years in the Senate keep telling me that he won't stand up to rightwing bullies once in the White House. It remains to see if I am proven wrong.
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Posted by: reinaldok on Oct 30, 2008 7:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: X-POLYGAMIST WIFE on Oct 30, 2008 7:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
COLORADO CITY, ARIZONA.
Why?
Because for 26 years John McCain's been SPREADING AMERICA'S WEALTH to polygamists in Colorado City, Arizona who practice tyranny over women and children and receive 25-30 million a year in taxpayer handouts.
How did John McCain's polygamists pay for the YFZ Ranch in Eldorado, Texas?
They bankrupted the Ephraim Bank in Colorado City which cost taxpayers 13 million.
BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM
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Posted by: throck on Oct 30, 2008 7:55 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Rural and voting Libertarian, but who to vote for?
Posted by: symcokid
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Posted by: twinnixon on Oct 30, 2008 9:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: vangelicals for Obama
Posted by: Carol Burns
» RE: Sider is kind of an old fuddy-duddy whose time has passed, but...
Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: Sider is kind of an old fuddy-duddy whose time has passed, but...
Posted by: twinnixon
» RE: Actually, I think it's time to retire the word "evangelical"
Posted by: Jasonix
» A BIG AMEN!
Posted by: Jbuuty
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sawdust on Oct 30, 2008 10:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: MarkS on Oct 30, 2008 10:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: benzene on Oct 30, 2008 2:24 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a post above, Sushi proposed that Obama institute a savings bond program in his first 100 days similar to the war bonds of WWII, except that there would be more potential uses for them. Each bond would be termed for 4 years, have a variable interest rate half that of the Federal Basic Rate (this is my addition), and be specifically used for what it was bought for. We could buy Education Bonds, Health Care Bonds, College Bonds, Etc. in small denominations to get Obama some funds to institute what he wants to despite the current economic crapstorm.
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» RE: Sushi's Great Idea
Posted by: VZEQICVA
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Drume on Oct 30, 2008 3:22 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One, for those who opposed the FISA vote, and yet are still planning on voting for Obama, why? And why should I?
Two, which of the two alternatives I have stated are better?
Thanks!
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» RE: WANTED: Arguments in Favor of Voting for Obama
Posted by: helenahanbasquet
» RE: WANTED: Arguments in Favor of Voting for Obama
Posted by: pattyr
» RE: WANTED: Arguments in Favor of Voting for Obama
Posted by: Sedona96
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DCBeltway on Oct 30, 2008 8:22 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Jim on Oct 31, 2008 4:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with [a previous writer's]point to "choose life" in voting. However, life does not end at birth, so choosing life means more than considering a candidate's stand on abortion. But abortion is important. Reducing abortion demand by giving mothers options and economic support when needed, and attempting to limit coerced abortions, seem at least as important as outlawing it.
With Jesus and the Biblical prophets speaking so strongly against war and for peace, it is important to choose candidates who are closer to choosing military action only as a last resort after other measures have failed. Choose someone who stays calm rather than has a hot temper.
With over 30,000 children dying daily of hunger, addressing global poverty is an important life issue. The Scripture speaks of poverty throughout (but never of abortion.) Quality of life may be as important as quantity. Which candidates will do the most for the poor of our own country?
Maintaining life often requires health care. Which candidate would enable more people to have access to health care?
Life depends on the health of our environment. Environmental protection is part of choosing life.
Family life is important to our society. A candidate's personal example in faithfullness to their spouse is also important to me.
It seems to me that except for the issues of the legality of abortion, Obama comes closer to meeting biblical standards than McCain. But maybe the Green Party does even better. I'm not sure whom I'm voting for yet.
Jim
Tiskilwa, Illinois
On abortion, Liberals have abandoned the general position of defending the powerless, so I know most of you will disagree with me on this subject. But please just remind other pro-life folks, like I do, that there are plenty of other pro-life issues other than the legality of abortion.
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Posted by: melindyrose on Oct 31, 2008 12:28 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
SIT Down STRIKE Wednesday national!
We cannot allow the crooks to hijack our liberty again.
If the war profiteers and traitors steal our votes again, sit down strike until democracy restored.
No other choice - this is everything we've gained:
collective bargaining
health care for everyone but us
education that turkey laughs at
corporate tv programming of sex and junk food
violent, vicious, vampirism by rich demons who have eaten our military and raped our women in uniform.
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Posted by: pattyr on Nov 1, 2008 1:39 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At the time, each encounter was a refreshing surprise. But to have my experience validated in print is a real kick; it adds to my hope for the future and helps reassure my concerns about my neighbors and my country.
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» RE: Obama enthusiasm in Palin-land
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Nov 2, 2008 2:51 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Jay Randal on Oct 30, 2008 1:39 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: CORRECTION!
Posted by: Cynic13
» Right!! It ain't over 'till it's over.....keep on fighting until the last minute!!
Posted by: Elendil
» RE: Will undecided voters actually vote for Obama on Tuesday?
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Will undecided voters actually vote for Obama on Tuesday?
Posted by: hms2004
» RE: Will undecided voters actually vote for Obama, after redistribution for slave reparations.
Posted by: symcokid
» Oh, sweet JESUS who said anything about slave reparations??!!
Posted by: kimbari
» Tell your pastor one thing, actually vote the other way
Posted by: PaulK
» RE: Will undecided voters actually vote for Obama on Tuesday?
Posted by: john mont
» THE RACISM CARD IS TRUMPED BY ECONOMIC REALITY - But not for all
Posted by: becky141
» Amazing what a Depression can do
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» 6% of Floridians who have already voted are undecided...
Posted by: leafsong1
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Posted by: phillyfinest on Oct 30, 2008 1:48 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You'd have to be nuts to go with Mad McCain!
http://tv1.com/playlists/show/11
His behavior and actions throughout his campaign have been ERRATICQ
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» RE: It's no wonder the GOP stronghold is fleeing from McCain-Palin!
Posted by: willymack
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Posted by: phillyfinest on Oct 30, 2008 1:49 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You'd have to be nuts to go with Mad McCain!
http://tv1.com/playlists/show/11
His behavior and actions throughout his campaign have been ERRATICQ
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» RE: It's no wonder the GOP stronghold is fleeing from McCain-Palin!
Posted by: willymack
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Posted by: AndyGra111 on Oct 30, 2008 2:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Figfest on Oct 30, 2008 3:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let me the first to coin the expression "reverse Bradley". I predict that this year there will be many whites afraid to admit publicly that they're supporting Obama because of their abusive friends, relatives, colleagues, but once they get in the voting booth....
I'm happy that my hunch appears to have substance.
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» RE: everse Bradley
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Reverse Bradley
Posted by: Sushi
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Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Oct 30, 2008 4:00 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Polls, schmolls
Posted by: cjgee
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Posted by: Ottomatic on Oct 30, 2008 4:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
McCain wants a TAX cut for himself and
Billionaires-R-US.
Socialized medicine and being on the government dole his whole life is fine for him,
But!
None 4 you.
We are being held
Prisoners in our own Country
and
McCain is the Warden.
He will do anything to be President.
Who counts the VOTES?
A Couple of Crooked Corp-pirates!
THE FIX IS IN,
Wink, Wink!
After years of Spying, Lying, terror, Treason and Propaganda
BU__! SH__!
What makes you think they're going to stop NOW?
No!
The WAR must go on and
The Delusion must continue.
Who will pay the price?
We will, until we stop it once and for all.
REVOLUTION #9
The Micro-Democracy Revolution
Surge
Purge
Update and
REBOOT!
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» RE: McCains Mutany! People are fed up with the same old Lies!
Posted by: Liam
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Purple Girl on Oct 30, 2008 4:11 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Spend 8 yrs (Or more) being supporter & defender and find out they were Yankin your chain.It's the type of slap in th eface that not only knocks off your Rose colored glasses, but crushes them.
The Republican Party screwed the Rural communities in the '80's when they allowed Big Agri Biz to force & Swindle Family farmers out of Business.Farming is NOT a Job you merely do for the Money- It's a Lifestyle, a committment and a source of personal Pride and Fortitude.
Since then our food has cost more, quality has gone down, Animal husbandry has taken a back seat to prodcution, While food borne illness have increased in numbers,Types,Severity and geographics.This Corp farming has failed, and we must return our food production to those who know and CARE about what they are doing,for them, Ourselves and the Animals.
As for the 'Fatihful' I think the revelation to what some of these so called 'Evangelicals' have been preaching has exposed the reality that 'Christian' is a very General Term nowadays. Of course it always has been; Catholic, Protestants, Lutherans, LDS,Pentacostals, episcopalians, Presbyterians,Baptists,Methodists,Born agains, Evangelicals, and their off shoot the End of Dayers.Mostly there are relatively small differences, but in others there are VAST differences and they are beginning to realize the term 'Chrisitan' does not necessary mean they all share the same concepts.I'm not sure All Chrisitians Appreciate being associated with these 'End of Dayers'- which has been bore out over history too. Most Believe it is NOT their Priviledge to 'Call' the End, nor feel it is their right to Work Towards It.
I'm thinking Self anointed Self Promoters like Hagee has brought that fact back to the forefront of peoples minds and has caused them to begin to differeniate between the various forms of 'Christianity'. Or perhaps it was the LDS scandal when they started to realize that the term 'Chrisitan' can be quite vague, and encompass some doctrines and practice they do not.
Not to mention the fact that the republican party has spent 30 yrs saying they would end Abortion...Yet the numbers keep climbing- Abstinence ONLY education? I think many are beginning to realize if we do Not Try to reduce Unwanted pregnacies to begin with, we not only increase the likilhood of abortions, we also increase other social problems (Poverty, abuse/neglect etc).
What also has put a nail in the coffin of Repugs is the fact they have Devastated our Economy (increased homelessness, poverty, unemployment) and Continue to Wage blood For Oil Wars - Not a Value Jesus would have supported.Nor would He have supported the Hate camapign tactics of John McCain
What Would Jesus Do?....Vote for Obama.
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» RE: ealized they were used & manipulated by the Repugs?
Posted by: willymack
Comments are closed-
Posted by: USAFVeteran1966 on Oct 30, 2008 5:09 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The idea of a McCain victory and the catastrophic division it would create in America was so horrifying, I wished for a moment that Obama had not run his heart-tugging infomercial.
The sudden sensation of dread faded quickly, however, and once again I felt good. Still, I won't breathe easy until the election is over with Barack declared our future 43rd president -- thank God!
.
Vietnam vet/Obama supporter
Eight reasons to vote against John McCain
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» TYPO CORRECTION: 43rd should be 44th, of course.
Posted by: USAFVeteran1966
» RE: TYPO CORRECTION: 43rd should be 44th, of course.
Posted by: DR. LARRY MITCHELL
» RE: Senator Obama's Wednesday night infomercial scared the hell out of me.
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» This country, these people really don't *deserve* Obama...
Posted by: kimbari
» RE: This country, these people really don't *deserve* Obama...
Posted by: willymack
» Actually, a lot of us do
Posted by: Karina
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Posted by: beachcomberT on Oct 30, 2008 5:25 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: upstate NY observation
Posted by: babs
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Posted by: taxidriver on Oct 30, 2008 5:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama will never win these people over, because they are victims of their own "values" or prejudices.
But Obama is winning over those who are willing to think beyond the misleading attack ads of the NRA and the GOP.
Will it be enough? We'll see on Nov. 4th.
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» RE: rural MI and Obama
Posted by: Beck
» RE: ural PA and Obama
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Rural Nebraska and Obama
Posted by: zooeyhall
» Obama's not winning me over.
Posted by: Spot
» RE: ural PA and Obama
Posted by: jackyD
Comments are closed-
Posted by: RedFoxOne on Oct 30, 2008 5:56 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jiff
Privacy Center
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Posted by: Farasien on Oct 30, 2008 6:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wait until the eggs hatch. Though (as usual) I hope like hell that I'm wrong, I'm betting there's going to be less to celebrate on Novermber 5'th than most people think.
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» RE: Don't count those chickens yet...
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: ZPaul on Oct 30, 2008 6:31 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Expect dirty tricks.
We need a big, clear win to neutralize those dirty tricks.
We need to have such a clear Obama victory that the Republicans will hang their heads in shame at even the thought of contesting it.
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» RE: We Need a Resounding Victory for Obama
Posted by: hohensayner
» Wrong.
Posted by: Spot
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Posted by: whathappened on Oct 30, 2008 6:53 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
BUT.....that did not happen.
Very upset....very depressed.....
Many many signs up for McCain in rural Indiana!
Somebody please "talk me down" and cheer me up!
Sorry to be so glass-half-empty.
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» RE: I am getting very nervous...Can't talk you down about conservative dirty tricks, but. . .
Posted by: Beck
» RE: I am getting very nervous...Can't talk you down about conservative dirty tricks, but. . .
Posted by: helenahanbasquet
» RE: I am getting very nervous...Can't talk you down about conservative dirty tricks, but. . .
Posted by: Beck
» RE: I am getting very nervous...Can't talk you down about conservative dirty tricks, but. . .
Posted by: helenahanbasquet
» RE: I am getting very nervous...Can't talk you down about conservative dirty tricks, but. . .
Posted by: Sushi
» That is a great proposal, publicize it immediately!
Posted by: benzene
» RE: I am getting very nervous...
Posted by: bookie
» RE: I am getting very nervous...
Posted by: babs
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Emily678 on Oct 30, 2008 7:04 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Are you related to Ron Eshelman? He was my chemistry teacher at Claymont (DE) High School. Great teacher!
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Posted by: picket on Oct 30, 2008 7:06 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Strong Progressives in NYS who want to send a message to both parties can vote in NYS on the Working Families Party .."Row E" and it WILL be a vote for Obama as he is their candidate.
New York is one of a few states that has "fusion voting" where you can vote "Row E" for Obama, holding both the Dems and Repubs to MORE economic, social and environmental justice without throwing your vote away.
Do not throw your vote away in NYS by voting for that "other" third party candidate just to make a statement.
Vote Obama in New York on the Working Families Party.
http://www.workingfamiliesparty.org/
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Posted by: stardustdrifter on Oct 30, 2008 7:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It was satisfying to read the author's thoughts and recognize the truth in his words. Yes it's a bit surprising to me that he found the county leaning toward Obama, except I know these 'down to earth' Americans just don't suffer fools gladly. It's encouraging to read they are setting aside their traditional politics and voting for the qualified leader Obama so obviously is, rejecting the negative alternative.
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Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 30, 2008 7:27 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well? Maybe a lot of these otherwise bible thumping evangelicals finally got some mental counseling or learned their lessons the very hard way and decided to try something else for a change. However, I still believe that the only reason they're jumping for Obama and not folks such as Paul, Kucinich, Nader, Mckinney, etc ... is simple. Obama made the WRONG choice to be part of the system that squashes him once in Washington. Yes, he even went out of his mind to talk to evangelies and even pander to them such as extending Bush's faith based shit by providing more Christian bootcamps which my wife and I loathe and would never allow our children to be dragged into. I don't know what Obama will be like as president but he had better change his ways because his 4 years in the Senate keep telling me that he won't stand up to rightwing bullies once in the White House. It remains to see if I am proven wrong.
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Posted by: reinaldok on Oct 30, 2008 7:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: X-POLYGAMIST WIFE on Oct 30, 2008 7:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
COLORADO CITY, ARIZONA.
Why?
Because for 26 years John McCain's been SPREADING AMERICA'S WEALTH to polygamists in Colorado City, Arizona who practice tyranny over women and children and receive 25-30 million a year in taxpayer handouts.
How did John McCain's polygamists pay for the YFZ Ranch in Eldorado, Texas?
They bankrupted the Ephraim Bank in Colorado City which cost taxpayers 13 million.
BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM
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Posted by: throck on Oct 30, 2008 7:55 AM
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» RE: Rural and voting Libertarian, but who to vote for?
Posted by: symcokid
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Posted by: twinnixon on Oct 30, 2008 9:01 AM
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» RE: vangelicals for Obama
Posted by: Carol Burns
» RE: Sider is kind of an old fuddy-duddy whose time has passed, but...
Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: Sider is kind of an old fuddy-duddy whose time has passed, but...
Posted by: twinnixon
» RE: Actually, I think it's time to retire the word "evangelical"
Posted by: Jasonix
» A BIG AMEN!
Posted by: Jbuuty
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Posted by: sawdust on Oct 30, 2008 10:03 AM
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Posted by: MarkS on Oct 30, 2008 10:11 AM
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Posted by: benzene on Oct 30, 2008 2:24 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a post above, Sushi proposed that Obama institute a savings bond program in his first 100 days similar to the war bonds of WWII, except that there would be more potential uses for them. Each bond would be termed for 4 years, have a variable interest rate half that of the Federal Basic Rate (this is my addition), and be specifically used for what it was bought for. We could buy Education Bonds, Health Care Bonds, College Bonds, Etc. in small denominations to get Obama some funds to institute what he wants to despite the current economic crapstorm.
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» RE: Sushi's Great Idea
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: Drume on Oct 30, 2008 3:22 PM
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One, for those who opposed the FISA vote, and yet are still planning on voting for Obama, why? And why should I?
Two, which of the two alternatives I have stated are better?
Thanks!
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» RE: WANTED: Arguments in Favor of Voting for Obama
Posted by: helenahanbasquet
» RE: WANTED: Arguments in Favor of Voting for Obama
Posted by: pattyr
» RE: WANTED: Arguments in Favor of Voting for Obama
Posted by: Sedona96
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Posted by: DCBeltway on Oct 30, 2008 8:22 PM
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Posted by: Jim on Oct 31, 2008 4:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with [a previous writer's]point to "choose life" in voting. However, life does not end at birth, so choosing life means more than considering a candidate's stand on abortion. But abortion is important. Reducing abortion demand by giving mothers options and economic support when needed, and attempting to limit coerced abortions, seem at least as important as outlawing it.
With Jesus and the Biblical prophets speaking so strongly against war and for peace, it is important to choose candidates who are closer to choosing military action only as a last resort after other measures have failed. Choose someone who stays calm rather than has a hot temper.
With over 30,000 children dying daily of hunger, addressing global poverty is an important life issue. The Scripture speaks of poverty throughout (but never of abortion.) Quality of life may be as important as quantity. Which candidates will do the most for the poor of our own country?
Maintaining life often requires health care. Which candidate would enable more people to have access to health care?
Life depends on the health of our environment. Environmental protection is part of choosing life.
Family life is important to our society. A candidate's personal example in faithfullness to their spouse is also important to me.
It seems to me that except for the issues of the legality of abortion, Obama comes closer to meeting biblical standards than McCain. But maybe the Green Party does even better. I'm not sure whom I'm voting for yet.
Jim
Tiskilwa, Illinois
On abortion, Liberals have abandoned the general position of defending the powerless, so I know most of you will disagree with me on this subject. But please just remind other pro-life folks, like I do, that there are plenty of other pro-life issues other than the legality of abortion.
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Posted by: melindyrose on Oct 31, 2008 12:28 PM
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SIT Down STRIKE Wednesday national!
We cannot allow the crooks to hijack our liberty again.
If the war profiteers and traitors steal our votes again, sit down strike until democracy restored.
No other choice - this is everything we've gained:
collective bargaining
health care for everyone but us
education that turkey laughs at
corporate tv programming of sex and junk food
violent, vicious, vampirism by rich demons who have eaten our military and raped our women in uniform.
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Posted by: pattyr on Nov 1, 2008 1:39 PM
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At the time, each encounter was a refreshing surprise. But to have my experience validated in print is a real kick; it adds to my hope for the future and helps reassure my concerns about my neighbors and my country.
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» RE: Obama enthusiasm in Palin-land
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Nov 2, 2008 2:51 PM
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