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Election 2008

Your Salary in 2016 -- The Big Difference Between a McCain or Obama Administration

By Kevin Drum, Washington Monthly. Posted October 21, 2008.


Middle-class families will earn about $13,000 more in eight years if Obama wins and $5,000 if McCain wins.
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During his acceptance speech at Invesco Field in August, Barack Obama earned big applause for a line that compared Democratic and Republican economic policies. "We measure progress," he told the partisan crowd, "in the twenty-three million new jobs that were created when Bill Clinton was president -- when the average American family saw its income go up $7,500, instead of go down $2,000, like it has under George Bush."

As rhetoric, it was effective. But was it a fair point, or a cheap shot? It's true that the Bush expansion was one of the weakest economic recoveries in postwar history, but can you really lay the blame for that at the feet of the president? Isn't it the case that, ritual campaign promises to the contrary, presidents actually have very little influence on the economy?

The conventional wisdom among economists says yes, but a growing mountain of historical data suggests that they may be wrong. In the postwar era, it turns out, Democratic presidents consistently produce higher growth rates, lower unemployment, better stock market growth, and less income inequality than Republican presidents. Nobody quite knows why, but the results are surprisingly robust.

Within the economics profession this topic is known as the study of "political business cycles," and I first became interested in it ten years ago, before the dot-com boom of the Clinton era and the weak recovery of the Bush era. Even back then the data was clear. Add up growth rates under Democratic administrations, and you get a higher number than under Republican administrations. Ditto for employment levels. Inflation rates are about the same. Do it again with lag times, since presidents inherit economies from their predecessors, and you get the same result. Change the lag time from one year to two, or three, or four, and you still get the same result. Fast-forward to 2008, and the results become even more dramatic. We've now had eleven presidents since World War II, with over sixty years of data points to draw from, and no matter how you slice the results, Democratic presidents are better for the economy.

Why? The answer is complicated, not least because it's a subject that's inherently partisan and most economists probably prefer to stick to more neutral ground. Nonetheless, it's been a small but active area of interest among academic economists for more than thirty years, and it's one that recently got some time in the limelight thanks to the publication of Unequal Democracy, a book about political business cycles by Princeton political scientist Larry Bartels that's accessible to professionals and laymen alike.

To begin with, Bartels lays out the basic evidence for partisan economic differences since World War II. Annual economic growth is over a point higher under Democrats than Republicans. Unemployment is more than a point lower. Income growth among poor families is two points higher, among the middle class a point higher, and even among the rich about 0.2 percent higher. And growth is spread more evenly under Democrats too: income inequality stays about the same under Democratic administrations but grows consistently under Republicans. Inflation rates, meanwhile, which conventional wisdom suggests should be a Republican strong point, are about the same no matter who's in power. What's more, none of this is a coincidence. It's not just that Republican presidents are unlucky. The results stay robust even under a wide range of statistical tests.

Still, not everyone is convinced. Princeton economist and New York Times columnist Paul Krugman, for example, said recently that he had not written about Bartels's results before now because he couldn't figure out a "plausible mechanism" that might account for them. But then he went on to draw an intriguing parallel to Alfred Wegener, the German geologist who first proposed the theory of continental drift in 1912 but was roundly ignored during his lifetime. Why? Because even though Wegener had accumulated plenty of evidence in favor of his theory, there was no plausible mechanism to explain it. Continents are big pieces of rock, after all. How can they drift?

Well, we all know how that story ended: thirty years after Wegener's death, scientists discovered that continents sit on top of a hot, viscous layer of earth that does indeed allow them to move over geologic timescales. The resulting theory of plate tectonics is what explains both California earthquakes and the reason that South America and Africa look like matching pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. It turned out there was a plausible mechanism for Wegener's theory after all, which leads Krugman to ask, "So is Larry Bartels the Wegener of income distribution?"


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View:
Clearly Obama would be better than McCain ... but
Posted by: mmckinl on Oct 21, 2008 1:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In my opinion it will not be because of what this article laid out.

Obama will be better than McCain because the onslaught of bad news about the economy is just beginning. Obama will better buffer the effects of the coming deep recession through strengthening existing programs like Unemployment, Food Stamps and Medicaid.

The big question is ... how he will pay for it. We need to slash Military and Homeland Security spending. We need to tax the wealthy and corporations more. We need to flush cash into the system with Medicare for All. We need to help eligible homeowners keep their homes.

If all Obama does is run up the national debt without these other measures we will only be stuck with more debts we cannot pay. We will have to look at cutting Medicare, Medicaid, Schips and indeed Social Security.

Massive amounts of debt have been and will be destroyed. The question is who is going to pick up the tab ... the banksters and their banks or we, the people. The deafening silence from Barack and his economists about the banksters leaves big doubts about how the poor and middle class will fair through this deepening recession and beyond.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: How he could pay for it Posted by: mmckinl
» He will need a much bigger fan Posted by: edgeofnowhere
» RE: Here's an idea... Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Posted by: CatDad
Obama may do even better if people come to understand the destructive role of monarchy
Posted by: Suzon on Oct 21, 2008 4:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in American political life. Kings and Queens--especially weak ones--have to do favors for other powerful people. Bush (and Cheney) didn't accidently give tax breaks to the richest one percent.

There are more monarchists in the Republican ranks than in the Dems, though Democrats must play the game as well.

If William the Conquerer didn't invent giving land and privileges (private law) in return for support, he did grant a royal charter to the Corporation of the City of London in 1067 which placed it above the law.

Corporate status in the City (and elsewhere) allows directors to lie, cheat and steal for their own gain. Time to have a rethink on this before corporate activity destroys us all.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» 1066 and all that Posted by: Cathyc
2016 ???
Posted by: Last Chance on Oct 21, 2008 4:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who is making that projection when millions of American families cannot even see beyond next month's mortgage payment or rent!

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» Truth is the first casualty! Posted by: Karl.Ben
Who wins the Super Bowl in 2014?
Posted by: redbird30328 on Oct 21, 2008 5:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also, I am going to the race track in Florida in January. Please advise on which horses I should bet. Thanks!

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» After the Boom-and-Bust Series Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Who wins the Super Bowl in 2014? Posted by: edgeofnowhere
McCain's DIRTY LITTLE SECRET in Arizona
Posted by: X-POLYGAMIST WIFE on Oct 21, 2008 6:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't forget, McCain has 10,000 FLDS polygamists he's supporting in Arizona, so he can't be as generous as Obama.

http://www.bankingonheaven.com/

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TALK ABOUT WAGES, "Imagine This......" as the Wages...
Posted by: One American Lady on Oct 21, 2008 7:03 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
HOW MUCH DOES IT REALLY COST FOR AN INDIVIUDAL TO "REMAIN IN THEIR OWN HOME.... & BE A *HOMEBOUND PATIENT...EVEN A DISABLED-HOMEBOUND MILITARY VETERAN*" ?????
Well, someone should examine the Records, at the Top of the Ladder, (probably the Top of the Ladder), being in Washington, D.C. & the Agency of Human Services.
Comparing the current Stay for an Individual, to be a Patient / Resident in a Nursing Home & the Nurse's Aides, are being paid about $7.50 to $9.50 per hour...well, lets just say their top pay is *less than $11.50 per hour*, as Compared to this:
The ADvantage / Personal Care Attendants... thru the Human Services Dept. who are Assigned to the Homehealth Agencies, for becoming employed & Paid by the Homehealth Agency...the
PCA is: NOT REQUIRED TO HAVE *PRIOR TRAINING, IN: >PATIENT SAFETY >FOOD HANDLERS PERMIT
>PROPER HOUSECLEANING-PROPER DISHWASHING >PROPER BEDMAKING.....& yet, Here is *THEIR PAY RATE...(FOR UNTRAINED EMPLOYEES): $3.63 per Unit of Time, with Each Unit to = 15 Minutes.
When the PCA is in the Private Home of a Homebound Patient... & they're there for 2 hours, they are being paid at the Rate of $14.52 per hour... for (SUPPOSEDLY KNOWING HOW TO PROPERLY WASH DISHES / MAKE A BED / FOOD PREP / VACUUM & MOP A FLOOR).
"Boy, Wouldn't the Slaves of Years Ago, *felt Rich* if They'd been Getting This Kind of Money"...& their descendants, get degraded / neglected / shoved aside, as if the Slaves, hadn't meant anything to America".
YEAH THE MIDDLE CLASS WILL HAVE JOBS, but thru what Agency?
The PCA's are Receiving Pay for Mileage, too...
along with the *Per Unit* pay. And Most PCA's will have at least 8 to 9 hours, a day in the Private Home of a Homebound Patient.
AS COMPARED, TO BEING IN A NURSING HOME, IS IT REALLY CHEAPER, FOR THE PERSON TO *REMAIN IN THEIR PRIVATE HOME* ??? As the Media, Now Informs the Public, that It's More Economical for Persons to Remain *in their Private Homes, as Long as Possible ???*
Anyone who has any Common Sense, can Mathematically, figure this one out.
A PCA sometimes *travels over 150 Miles a day to 200 miles a day... just so they can get that *good Travel Pay*...
BUT DOES THE PCA, "KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING"...??
Most of the Time...NO !!
BY THE WAY: "NO PCA, IS REQUIRED TO POSSESS A:
"DRUG-FREE > DISEASE-FREE...IDENTIFICATION CARD".
"In other words, THEY CAN COME INTO A PRIVATE HOME, WITH *DRUGS > ALCOHOL, IN THEIR SYSTEM /
POSSESS TRANSMITTABLE DISEASES, ETC.* !!
(How many Homebound Patients, are *At-Risk, for Infections* ???).
YEAH, I'D BE VERY CONCERNED, IN THIS ELECTION, AS TO THE "JOBS...WHICH WILL GO TO THE MIDDLE-CLASS PEOPLE"....& if those Jobs, Will Be that of a PCA...Untrained, Employee.
It costs about $2,400.00 to $2,600.00 for a Patient to be in a Nursing Home... & that is about $28,800.00 to $31,200.00, Annually.
The Cost of a Homebound Patient, IS NOT CHEAPER THAN THAT COST !!
Check the Payout Sheet, on a Homebound Patient,
& There is a Paper-Trail, as to this.
I examined one, on a U.S. Military Veteran, & discovered that: * Homebound Patients, AREN'T SUPPOSED TO DRIVE THEMSELVES..TO & FROM DESTINATIONS...& yet, this Veteran, was receiving $1300.00 month, working several days a week, bringing in $400+ per week, Not Eating at Home, & yet HE HAD THE FULL BENEFITS AS A *HOMEBOUND PATIENT*...a Housekeeper / Cook / Skilled Nurse / Nurse's Aide.
Medicare was Paying the Most of the Money & the VA was paying about 1/3 of the cost... but the total Costs of that *Working Person* is
more than $32,000.00 Annually, to that Homehealth Agency.
If this Agency is *at the Bottom of the Ladder, then HOW MUCH IS THE AGENCY AT THE TOP OF THE LADDER, GETTING* ???
One American Lady

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Republican Leaders Don't Really Care About Growth
Posted by: snax on Oct 21, 2008 7:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Historically it just pans out that way. While they will always pay lip service to it and how the Liberals want to 'spread YOUR wealth around' and suggest that they are the party to stop it, they never mention the part about consolidating their wealth to an even greater extent. The overall health of the economy really makes little difference there as they don't depend on society producing anything to do it.

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THE *STATE OF OKLAHOMA* "Failed in Palliative Care to the Sick"
Posted by: One American Lady on Oct 21, 2008 7:13 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is it Any Wonder, WHY THE HOMEBOUND PATIENTS, CAN BRING IN...THE DOUGH...THE MONEY, TO HELP THE *RICH GET RICHER, THE POOR GET POORER* ??
"Palliative Care, is Providing for *Wellness* for the People".... & IF PEOPLE CAN BE KEPT *SICK* THE STATES, CAN GET *MORE MONEY FROM THE GOVERNMENT...USING THE MONEY FROM THE TAXPAYER'S INCOME...the Working Class* !!
"Perhaps this is the GOAL, for the Government, to Bring Our Health,to a Declining Position & Limit Our Healthcare...Our Meds, etc....so We Are Kept *Sick*..."
Yeah, so What, if the Middle-Class, get paid a bit more money... THE GOVERNMENT WILL FIND A WAY, FOR THE COST OF PRODUCTS & FUELS, TO TAKE PLACE...& has the Citizens of America, reached a point, where they are better off, getting paid a *little bit more* ???
Who is Making the Most Sense, in this Campaign with the Candidates, who are *Slandering Each Other", so they can ...Get to the Seat of Being the President of America ??
If they can "Sling the Slop, on Each Other, What Does This Tell Us, HOW THEY WILL (MIS)TREAT / (DIS)RESPECT US,...AFTER THEY GET IN OFFICE ???
If this is the Role Models we are supposed to have for Our Children & Our Grandchildren... we better find some Enemies, Real Quickly...cause an Enemy, surely couldn't (mis)treat us, any worse, than these Candidates do.
Or Can They??
I know one thing...I wouldn't want to be a Politician, if this is the Behavior, I WOULD BE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT !!
And I surely, don't want to Use Them, as MY ROLE MODEL...FOR ME OR MY FAMILY MEMBERS...!!
One American Lady

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Assumptions
Posted by: wildeyes on Oct 21, 2008 7:14 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This clearly assumes that economic growth is the natural inclination of economies, regardless of on- or under-the-ground issues. This falls in line with mainstream rhetoric about waiting for the economy to "stablilize" (which means, resume growth) and pick back up.

But the real measure of any economy is its energy base, and an economic system fueled by ever increasing growth cannot continue on a finite planet with limited resources, particularly when that economy is based on a nonrenewable energy source. Yes, I'm talking about oil.

Oil production has plateaued since 2005. As production flatlines and soon begins terminal decline, the economic growth engine will sputter. We will not see economic growth, but economic contraction.

Articles like this are dangerous because they perpetuate dangerous assumptions that "things will continue as they always have." Considering the possible scenarios that could unfold as we enter the period of energy descent, this has the effect of soothing people's fears rather than encouraging them to prepare.

I think it would be wise if Alternet's editorial staff got Peak-Oil aware so that their article selection would not reflect the assumptions of the masses who are terribly unaware of the implications of long term energy decline.

~wildeyes

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Scary
Posted by: RedFoxOne on Oct 21, 2008 7:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It has become pretty obvious that if McBush wins, we the Sheeple are screwed. I really cannot believe anyone with an ounce of Common sense would take anything McBush says seriously. He is a proven LIAR and we have had enough lies over the last 8 years.

Jiff
Privacy Center

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Why always the middle class?
Posted by: msteryis on Oct 21, 2008 7:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am sick and tired of reading how the economic situation is affecting the vaunted "middle class." What about those of us in the working class and the working poor? We never seem to be in the discussion, even though we are out here busting our asses and living paycheck to paycheck. How about telling everyone what effect it will have on US?

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THIS is the main headline
Posted by: owlsliveintrees on Oct 21, 2008 7:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A guy makes random predictions for economic growth based on nothing at all and it's the featured article on Alternet today? Alternet HAS to improve the caliber of articles it features

The Repubs v. Dems on the economy argument is stupid. JFK cut taxes. Bush I raised them. Clinton supported NAFTA. "Conservatives" do "liberal" things and vice versa all the time.

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If We Cut Military Financial Support, Who is Going to *Serve to Protect*, Our Country...
Posted by: One American Lady on Oct 21, 2008 7:27 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is Not Enough Soldiers, already, to Service to Protect Our Country...& groups of men, are hired, to serve in the U.S. Military.
Many of the Americans, Don't Wish to Serve in the Military...so... We gotta have More Immigrants, to Become Americans, so we can have a Military...but, Will These People, *really be true to the USA*... & Protect the Constitutional Government, Established by the (Our) Founding Fathers??
Are We *At-Risk* of Losing the Constitutional Government, for a New One, to "fit the times"??
How Much Do We Really Value a (Our)Constitutional Government ??
In Reality, the Constitutional Government, Established by the (Our) Founding Fathers, HAS *NOT FAILED US*...IT IS THE PEOPLE OF TODAY, & PROBABLY FOR THE PAST 125 YEARS....WHO HAVE *FAILED US...WITH THE INTERSECT...OF ILLEGAL DRUGS...UNHEALTHY SUBSTANCES...& THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE *ALTERED MINDS*...via Mental Health Meds, (being promoted, by Human Services, who say: If You Aren't a Client of a Mental Health Agency & Consuming Mental Health Meds, YOU CANNOT BE *REHABILITATED, THRU OUR OFFICE*...
& then the Media, Reports, that MOST PEOPLE IN THAT STATE...ARE *MENTALLY ILL*....
Then, if You Are a Client of a Mental Health Agency, by the time you are *Of Age, to Serve in the Military*, WILL YOU BE *ALLOWED TO SERVE-IN THE MILITARY...BEING CLASSIFIED AS "MENTALLY-ILL" ???
Ya Better, Value *YOUR OWN MENTALITY & PROTECT IT*...No One Else, Can Control Your Mind, BUT YOU...You Have the Ability to Choose, What You Want to Do & How You Want to Do It...How You Want to Live Your Life...
(What amount of money, is being paid to that Mental Health Agency, for you to Use them as a Sounding Board??......Well, how does it sound, of the amount of $75 to $150 per hour...THE TAXPAYER'S MONEY....coming from the Middle Class People, who are supposed to get a Small Increase in Wages.
EXAMINE THE LIFE IN WHICH YOU LIVE...FOLLOW YOUR OWN MIND... NOT THE INFLUENCE OF OTHERS...
all you can!!
One American Lady

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Flawed. First off, there is almost NO real middle class. Second, Mccain will DECREASE the wages on
Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 21, 2008 7:56 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
what's left of the middle class. Obama? Who knows? But even I will have to admit that he'll try to be reasonable about cutting down the rate of wage decrease. Only Ralph Nader would actually help the middle class big time but since he's left to the curb, the middle class or what's left of it is the LOSER.

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Corps. have armies of legal help to get around Obama's policies, I don't
Posted by: eeezzz on Oct 21, 2008 8:12 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama's policies will tank my small business, for sure...then the Fed can support my employees - which Obama seems eager to do anyway. The pressures are bad enough NOW competeing in a global economy- don't need Obama micro-managing and telling me how to run things. I'm otta here ASAP.

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Obama Vs McCain & the Economy
Posted by: sunlakedude on Oct 21, 2008 8:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The new president will have a rocky road regardless of who he is. Right now the price of oil is down but that is just temporary. The fact is that world oil production has been flat since 2005 indicating that production has peaked. It has nowhere to go now but down. Any new fields put in production will in no way make up for depletion of existing fields so once production starts to seriously fall short of demand the price will skyrocket again. Then shortages, first isolated in nature, then more widespread will show up. All of the energy alternatives currently being talked about, even if they are used together will not make up for this shortage and the world economy will really start to wobble. Globalism will be seen for what it really was, an experiment that lasted for only a short period of time and then failed. We will not be able to purchase Salad Shooters in North America that have been manufactured on the other side of the planet. The suburbs and exurbs of North America will contract. This will especially be the case in the Sunbelt. In short, the game will have changed more than we can currently realize. It will take leadership on a national and local level to re-design our living arrangements to make them more in line with the leaner energy diet fo the future. We will have to live on a much more local basis. I personally think that Obama would be better that this than McCain.

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WHO ISN'T "GETTING THE REAL PICTURE", HERE ???
Posted by: One American Lady on Oct 21, 2008 8:41 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
George Washington, DIDN'T WASTE HIS TIME, BECOMING A *SURVEYOR* FOR NOTHING...
Within the Law of the Constitutional Rights...
is the Creation of Townsites.
Townsites, EXIST TODAY...& they are for a Purpose...SO *NO ONE, WOULD BE HOMELESS*...No One Would Be Without a Place to Call Home.
There was a Plan established by the Founding Fathers, in Protecting the Support for Education & the Military Soldiers / Veterans & their family members
Well, just imagine, that you are the one, Writing a Government Document, that is Supposed to Be, for "All Succeeding Generations" to the *Good of Each Individual*..
& you told yourself, "I'll Create the Rules / Regulations for Townsites & the Type of Government, each Townsite is SUPPOSED TO FOLLOW, IN THE PEOPLE HAVING A TYPE OF GOVERNMENT "OF THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE", & you form a Townsite Company, Which Retained *All the Rights & Ownership of: ALL ALLEYWAYS / STREETS, OF AN *ORIGINAL...TOWNSITE PLAT MAP*... "Because, as the Natural Resources, would become Produced, the Townsite Company, you organized, will have monies to: pay for the Operation of the Townsites & for the Education of the School-Aged Students & for the Pay to the Residents of That Townsite, "Who would Serve in the Military"
THIS IS THE PLAN, IN WHICH THE PEOPLE OF AMERICA, ARE *SUPPOSED TO BE ...SELF-GOVERNED*
When Townsites are Incorporated, A Town, becomes an *Equal Classification, as that of Any Other "state-approved" agency....THEREFORE, AN AGENCY OF *EQUAL CLASSIFICATION*... CAN'T *VIOLATE THE BY-LAWS OF ANOTHER AGENCY, OF...EQUAL...CLASSIFICATION
In Fact, WHY DO YOU THINK, GEORGE WASHINGTON, & THE FOUNDING FATHERS...WANTED *TOWNSITES, TO BE ABOUT 5-MILES APART ??
In Oklahoma, the Original Plat Maps, of the Townsites, ARE 5-MILES APART.
Here's the catch...Many Townsites, Are Not Incorporated, as Residential Towns... & the Government has the Power to *sell a Whole Town, right out from under the Residents*, as long as IT IS *NOT INCORPORATED*...as a Residential Town.
Just because a City is Incorporated, DOESN'T MEAN THE LOCATION IS PROTECTING THE RESIDENTS.
An Incorporated City... can apply for / receive monies to Run the Government of that City, BUT THEY ARE *NOT SUPPOSED TO CONTROL THE RESIDENTS*, unless a By-Law of a City, states, that the Residents Health & Welfare, etc. CAN BE DICTATED BY THAT CITY GOVERNMENT / COUNTY GOVERNMENT
THIS IS *NOT IN THE BILL OF RIGHT*
INDIVIDUALS HAVE *EQUAL RIGHTS* AS AN INDIVIDUAL...NOT TO BE *DICTATED OVER*.
People, Individuals, HOLD THE POWERS-TO-BE, IN THEIR OWN HANDS.
(Who has the Right, to Prevent a Townsite, from Being Incorporated ??.... the County Commissioners, at the Request of the State, who then...the orders, come from the Washington, D.C....control).
Why, aren't More Townsites, being Allowed to Be Incorporated? They Still Exist, & CAN BE *INCORPORATED*, but Some People, are Preventing Them, from being Incorporated...
IS THIS THE LAST BIT OF SUBSTANCE OF LAND... THAT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT, CAN ... SELL / TRADE, Use for Bartering...& Leave Us Homeless ???
Can you see the Whole Picture in this?
IN THE YEAR 2006 / 2007, THERE WERE *MORE THAN 900,000 HOMELESS, SCHOOL-AGE CHILDREN & YOUTH...& MORE THAN 336,000 U.S. MILITARY VETERANS.....and WHY IS IT...TAKING PLACE...
when the Founding Fathers, established a type of Government, to Prevent Homelessness ???
WE HAVE A GUARANTEE, IN THE CONSTUTIONAL GOVERNMENT...FOR SEEKING: "LIFE, LIBERTY & THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS"...but who is Enforcing or Protecting this Right...We Are Supposed to Have?
Yeah, Take this Matter, into Serious Consideration...Then Vote...for "whoever will Not Make You or Your Family Member...Homeless.
IS THERE ANY CANDIDIATES, RUNNING FOR OFFICE, WHO WILL *NOT DO THIS TO US*??
One American Lady

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» But the times were different. Posted by: maxpayne
Did you Know This information =
Posted by: One American Lady on Oct 21, 2008 8:57 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
During WWI & WWII, housecats...were being promoted for meat... & people were stating that a "skinned, cleaned ...housecat, was Squirrel Meat" ???
People were desparate for foods, & would do this type of thing...for survival.
Oklahoma is like anyother state, where wildlife & fishing is always plentiful, but then, when there is Over-Population, there just might Not Be Enough Wildlife, available to Provide for the Needs of the People.
Not Many People, living...after WWII, realized that in Oklahoma, there had been an Epidemic of Malaria, (spread by mosquitos) across the
State, which caused the death of many residents, young & old.
The Rivers & Creeks, & the Over-grown Brush, where water-holes existed, had swarms of mosquitos, which carried Unhealthy Diseases...& kept the Germs, going from place to place.
In any part of any State in America, where Waters, sit...without a way to flow...such as ponds & also, where areas are allowed to have Weeds & Brush...where water can become stagnate, there is some types of Wildlife, that Carry Unhealthy Germs, such as Rats & Mice, Mosquitos, & other wild animals, who even might be "rabied"... & even dogs / cats
need to be examined, by a vetenarian, & be Cleared of Any Unhealthy Germs...for the Protection of the Health of the People of any area.
Human & Animal Feces, carries much Unhealthy Substances, too. It takes so little time, for Infection to set in...
Recently an E-Coli Epidemic, happened in Oklahoma & a few people died, & more than 200 required medical care... it was a self-contained area... but then... it is still being investigated.
There is concern about the Manure, being spread in the pastures, to fertilize the ground so it can produce hay, but then, the "run-off of the water, from it, is going into the Creeks & Rivers" to poison the fish & wildlife, which are consumed by the people, who fish & hunt, for wild game...for food.
So the Saga, continues, as to: What Does A Person Do, Properly...to Protect the Health of the People.
How much of the Steroid Content is in Meats of: Fast-Grower Animals.
Could some of this be causing some percentage of the Obesity, in the Young People, where it didn't for the persons, who lived "before Fast Grower Meats" came about??
RESEARCHING HISTORY & LEARNING ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT, IN WHICH WE LIVE... CAN BE A *HEALTHY ACTION, TO TAKE*...to Protect Our Own Health !!
One American Lady

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Change and Positivity is in the air!
Posted by: thinkverybig on Oct 21, 2008 9:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The videos below are about change, inspiration, belief and compassion. I hope you like them and share them with everyone you know. We are headed in a new direction in the world we live and we as a society can embrace this new era with love. I ask for your support in helping spread the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM58nqX1ehE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN_pGy_1bEg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD0iAQN7VPY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpfHz_WeXHw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH9BtZwTyHo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWVGsuNecYg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UssvnQMn-EM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdfvQmh3b90

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03Enn5yiY-0



Go to youtube and do a search for "thinkverybig" and watch all of those videos. The one called "We Must Change" would be fitting to recite at Obama's Inauguration.

Here's a community organizer that's reached out to over 20,000 youth and has a goal of touching a million by teaching them the game of life using the game of chess. Click below to watch video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLFENGymr34

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tired of reading biased bluey
Posted by: Karen Kim on Oct 21, 2008 9:52 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article makes no sense. Your prediction is based on what? If Obama gets in and starts taxing businesses even more than they already are, more jobs will be lost,and the middle class income will fall. Last year my business, for the first time after six years of very hard work, made $250,000.00 exactly. I used it to build a new office and hired many new employees. If Obama had been president, it wouldn't have been possible. He would have taken my profit in taxes and spread the wealth to those who don't even work in the form of an annual "tax credit" check. Some way to stimulate the economy and create jobs. Get some common sense.

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» Corp. vs. individual income tax Posted by: Bliss Doubt
The game.....
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Oct 21, 2008 10:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course dems are better than repubs at taking care of the nation over all! The problem according to Lee Atwater (their minister) was winning at any cost; and to prove it "the fear of other" was used against the people! This "game" has proven fatal to our democracy and it's people! As in the days when the "Landed Nobility" ruled Europe, this countries richest conservatives think of themselves as the people that will "save the people from themselves"! Frankly, Atlas Shrugged was a fictional novel and does not lend itself into a governing philosophy - want proof look at the last 7+ years of one disaster after another!

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Wrong thinking (I think)
Posted by: willymack on Oct 21, 2008 12:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our thinking is all wrong, in my opinion. Here's why:
1. Our entire outlook for the future is predicated on the expectation of continous population increase, ad infinitum. Even a minute's thought regarding this situation leads to the conclusion that it's UNSUSTAINABLE, and will only end in tragedy.
2. We continue to think of the satiation of our voracious and wasteful appitite for energy in terms of BURNING this or that when most of us know full well that it's producing deadly pollution and climate change.
3. We continue to think that capitalism is the ONLY way to prosperity and a better life, when several other countries have abandoned it and are far better off for it. By the way, their populations are DECREASING as well.
4.We continue to allow our thinking process to be shackled by the rants of charlatans on the pulpit and the soapbox and to blame anyone but ourselves for the sorry state we're in.

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» I WISH Americans reacted Posted by: Beck
Liar Liar Pants On fire
Posted by: Mexitli on Oct 21, 2008 1:01 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Numbers are relative. Your purchasing power will be less in the future under both candidates. However, Obama's plan will devalue the dollar more than McCain's plan.

Better to check with the Tax Policy Inst. for the real truth on this article's numbers.

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» RE: Liar Liar Pants On fire Posted by: maxpayne
» DUDE Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: DUDE Posted by: maxpayne
Senior Cynic
Posted by: rdodell on Oct 21, 2008 2:52 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone who seriously believes that a McCain / Palin "Maverick"administration would vary in the least from the current Neo-Con agenda to...
1. DE-REGULATE GOVERNMENT EVEN MORE TO BENEFIT CORRUPT CORPORATIONS AND FINANCIAL GIANTS,
2. IMPOSE EVEN GREATER TAXES ON THE LOWER AND MIDDLE CLASSES TO BENEFIT THE ULTRA-RICH,
3. SHRED OUR CONSTITUTION TO ENACT THEIR TWISTED ELITIST OBJECTIVES,
4. JAM OUR SUPREME COURT WITH JUDGES EAGER TO LEGALIZE SUBJUCATION OF ALL TO NEO-CON POLICY,
5. ENCOURAGE A "LOBBYIST" DOMINATED CONGRESS TO ENSURE CONTINUED GOVERNMENT BY THE RICH, FOR THE RICH,
...Just hasn't been paying attention.

Regardless of the promises we hear, it is NOT those in office who run government, but rather the powerful political machine behind the curtain manipulating the strings while their paid puppet candidates dance seductively to sell the party's agenda to voters.
Hopefully, we will realize that, this time, we are not just electing a presidental team, but selecting regime...a philosophy...a way of life for the next four years. Considering where they have taken us over the past eight years, we had better ask ourselves if we can bear the pain and afford the expense of their continued plunder of our land, our people, our economy and our constitution.

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DENIAL
Posted by: HardHawk on Oct 21, 2008 3:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Has any one when he come with how much money families will be making if this guy or the other guy get to be ellected have ever stop and understand reality and is implications? What does it matter how much $ you be making theoritically if you not around to collect or does any of you briliant people stating this political theories have any idea what the $ will be worth in few months ? because where we are they dont even accept it any more as payment.So 5000 or 13000 of nothing it is still nothing people wake up and get back your lives and your families before it is too late.

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Creating Jobs
Posted by: BlackbirdHighway on Oct 21, 2008 3:13 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Conservatives keep telling us over and over that lower taxes on the rich (they like to use the term "small businesses") creates jobs.

What really helps small businesses create jobs is when they have customers with money to spend. Over the Bush presidency, real income for the middle class has dropped, so most people have less money to spend.

It doesn't matter if you lower tax rates for small businesses to zero, if their customers don't have money to spend, they are going to layoff people, not hire them.

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Someone should take a ECON course or two
Posted by: AmerVtrn on Oct 21, 2008 5:22 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Someone should take a ECON course or two. Government intervention may lengthen the cycle but it can not stop the boom to bust. I originally posted this before the Scam Bailout, since then things have accelerated, but that only lengthens the recovery time. In about a year and a half, when the real estate market is at 50 percent, and DOW has stabilized at between 7800-8000, NASDAQ 900-950, S&P 700-750, it will be the bottom. Then it will be safe to go back. Until then it is a Day trader's market. Gambler's paradise. The bailout is just a waste of resources. In fact it will compound the problem. Much like the physicians of old who would bleed the patient, to give the appearance of action. The Scam Bailout is an action to give the appearance of care and concern, but will in truth deplete needed resources for healing and extend the time required for recovery. We are looking at a very rough 3 to 6 years, according to who is president and how much more Socialistic debt is added.
I have already survived this type situation (Carter), and really shiver at the thought of having to go through it again. Therefore the inexperience definitely concerns me. The Socialist leaning is a big red flag. Obama's record shows nothing to recommend him. Pretty words and rhetoric may soothe the soul but do nothing to solve problems.
This artificial market making is a continuation of the building a house of cards. Where as the original problem was a house of cards built on worthless derivative contracts( reminiscent of the South Seas Bubble) now we are furthering this fraud by printing money( at a rate even Germany 1920-23 would not believe )with no backing. The Great Scam Bailout will come back to bite us in the "Keaster" first in the tax of slavery for generations to come, loss of resources to recover when the Scam fails, rape of the Constitution, and as has already happened the rape of the USA Citizen's rights of representation. Socialism/Communism is not acceptable to the USA. Nikita Khrushchev's speech before the U.N.,"America will fall without a shot being fired. It will fall from within." It seems his words have come through with ringing clarity.
Keep America Free
McCain-Palin 08

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Kristallnacht
Posted by: Cathyc on Oct 21, 2008 6:07 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the reportage and comments here on Alternet are anything to go by, one gets the impression that America is already in the Kristallnacht stage of its inevitable fascist takeover/demise?

But I'm not surprised by these 'turn of events' in America.

America has been living in a Steven Spielberg type of Dreamworld since as long as I can remember.

In the REAL world, children eventually grow up to become adults.


ET, phone home - if you have a home to connect to!

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Try to get in on one of Obama's socialist GSA jobs
Posted by: blogbooks on Oct 21, 2008 7:11 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The government service is currently the highest paying game in town.

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The big difference is that McCain is a US Citizen
Posted by: rjs on Oct 21, 2008 9:18 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama US?

Another hoodwinked year for the US. Is Obama a US Citizen or not? If he was not born in the US, would you still vote for him?

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Maybe it's just me
Posted by: rickiey on Oct 22, 2008 9:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But I can't agree with the premise of this article.

As much as I DO blame Bush for (the war in Iraq, Patriot act, torture, prop 8 coming up for vote, just for starters) I simply can't blame the economy on him.

Quite frankly, the early Bush years economy was the fault of things that occurred when Clinton was President.

THe dot-com boom being actually a bubble.
Enron accounting irregularities.
Worldcom accounting irregularies.

The need for Sarbanes-Oxley.

I'm doing, personally, 5 times better then I was under Clinton, gross-incomewise. I refuse to credit Bush for it, and conversely, I refuse to indict Bush for those who are not.

There's plenty else to indict him for.

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Hahaha!!!!!
Posted by: billyweather on Oct 23, 2008 8:07 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a load of crock. Reagan cut taxes for the "wealthy" from near 70% to around 28%. What happened? The economy exploded. The rates have never been close to that high since. I guess the Dems get credit for that, huh? This article is pure partisan speculation. This ain't the Clinton years. There's no dot.com boom to hang Obama's hat on. And Clinton was certainly not as tax happy as The One.

Hi.

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