Home
Archive
Newsletters
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise

Election 2008

McCain Was Not Tortured, POW Guard Claims

By John Hooper, The Guardian. Posted October 15, 2008.


An interview with the chief prison guard of the North Vietnamese jail in which McCain was held claims, "We never tortured McCain."
Advertisement
Upcoming AlterNet stories on Digg

The Republican US presidential candidate John McCain was not tortured during his captivity in North Vietnam, the chief prison guard of the jail in which he was held has claimed.

In an interview with the Italian daily Corriere della Sera, Nguyen Tien Tran acknowledged that conditions in the prison were "tough, though not inhuman". But, he added: "We never tortured McCain. On the contrary, we saved his life, curing him with extremely valuable medicines that at times were not available to our own wounded."

McCain, who fell into enemy hands after his plane was shot down in 1967, has frequently referred to being tortured and has cited his experiences as a reason for vigorously opposing the endorsement by the Bush administration of the use of techniques such as "water-boarding" on terrorist suspects.

Shortly after his release in 1973 McCain told US News & World Report that his prison guards had beaten him "from pillar to post". After being worked over at intervals for four days, he said, he had become suicidal and agreed to sign a "confession" admitting to war crimes.

In his 1999 autobiography, Faith of My Fathers, he described how after his capture he was subjected to inhuman treatment in an effort to force him to disclose his ship's name, squadron number and the target of his final mission. He was threatened with the withdrawal of medical assistance and, while still suffering from his crash injuries, his guards "knocked me around a little".

For his service in Vietnam and his actions as a POW, McCain was awarded the Silver Star, the Legion of Merit, the Bronze Star, the Navy Commendation Medal and the Purple Heart.

Tran, now 75, said McCain reached Hanoi with the worst injuries he had seen in a downed pilot. But he denied torturing him, saying it was his mission to ensure that McCain survived. As the son of the US naval commander in Vietnam, he offered a potential valuable propaganda weapon.

However, recommending McCain for a medal after the war, his former cellmate, the much-decorated Colonel George Day, said the admiral's son had forced his interrogators to "drug him and torture him to get any cooperation", according to a letter in the US National Archives cited earlier this year by the Washington Post. Day said McCain suffered "torturous abuse".

Tran told Corriere that McCain was sent to hospital the day after he was brought to Hanoi and stayed there for a month. "I never lost him from sight. I was frightened a doctor or nurse might do him harm."

Tran dismissed as "absolutely impossible" perhaps the most famous story from McCain's autobiography: that one Christmas, a guard traced a cross in the mud in front of him. "My men were all communists and atheists," he said.

As to why McCain, then 36, left North Vietnam with prematurely grey hair, Tran denied it was because of mistreatment. "It's that in prison you think too much."

AlterNet is a nonprofit organization and does not make political endorsements. The opinions expressed by its writers are their own.

Digg!    Share on facebook   submit to reddit    Bookmark on Delicious   Stumble This  

See more stories tagged with: john mccain, election 2008, pow, nguyen tien tran

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from Election 2008! Sign up now »


Advertisement
Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
Well!
Posted by: Dboy on Oct 16, 2008 2:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well of course it wasn't torture..it was enhanced interrogation. McCain lived through the experience, so by the current definition it wasn't torture.

dboy

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Well! LOL! Posted by: harryf200
» RE: Well! Posted by: donl51
» RE: Well! Posted by: Dboy
» RE: Well! Posted by: rinthy
» RE: Well! Posted by: Dboy
» RE: Well! Posted by: edromar2
» Turncoat McCain Posted by: edromar2
gray at 35
Posted by: olympia43 on Oct 16, 2008 8:01 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been gray headed since before I was 35--and I've never been a POW.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: gray at 35 Posted by: Dboy
baltimore liberal
Posted by: jabberjw on Oct 16, 2008 8:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's a shame that McCain has inoculated himself so effectively against this discussion. It's why he sealed the records of his captivity. This has been brought up for years but Democrats are too afraid to discuss it because of the aura surrounding the myth. It's not going to be easy to break. If we send this widely in our own networks, we'll hear John McCain say that we're listening to enemies of the United States and that we're traitors.

I'm tired of his daddy issues, as much as I'm tired of Bush's daddy issues. Obama purged his daddy issues by writing an entire book about them. maybe they can't because obama has surpassed his daddy but bush/mccain never will. better president and generations of admirals. these boys with lots of bad behavior in their pasts will be haunted to their graves by their inability to overthrow daddy. thank god another one won't live in the white house.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: baltimore liberal Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: baltimore liberal Posted by: mtatasmith
What REAL war heroes think of Songbird McCain
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Oct 17, 2008 12:44 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The late Colonel David Hackworth, popular TV commentator, Korean/Vietnam veteran, winner of 78 combat awards, including the Silver Star, Distinguished Flying Cross, Bronze Star, Air Medal and eight Purple Hearts, said the following:

"The facts are that McCain signed a confession and declared himself a 'black criminal who performed deeds of an air pirate.' This statement and other interviews he gave to the Communist press were used as propaganda to fan the flames of the antiwar movement."

"The United States Navy says two eyewitnesses are required for any award of heroism. But for the valor awards McCain received, there were no eyewitnesses, less himself and his captors."

"A former POW says, 'No man witnessed another man during interrogations. We relied on each other to tell the truth when a man was returned to his cell.'”

"McCain refused an early release. An act of valor? Three former POWs told me he was ordered to turn it down by his American POW commander and he 'just followed orders.'”

POW Gordon Larson told the Phoenix New Times he did not believe McCain had been tortured before his interrogations at a POW camp called "The Plantation," as claimed by McCain.

POW Phillip Butler, Navy pilot and U.S. Naval Academy graduate who spent more than eight years in North Vietnam as a prisoner of war, gave the following explanation about why he would not support McCain for the presidency:

"I can verify that John has an infamous reputation for being a hot head. He has a quick and explosive temper that many have experienced firsthand. Folks, quite honestly, that is not the finger I want next to the red button."

Army Colonel Earl Hopper, a veteran of World War II, Korea and Vietnam whose son was shot down near Hanoi and killed, contends McCain gave information to his captors that helped them fine-tune their air defense system. Because McCain cooperated with the enemy in return for special favors and made radio propaganda broadcasts, the North Vietnamese contemptuously nicknamed him "Songbird."

POW Ted Guy, one of McCain's Senior Ranking officers at the Hanoi Hilton, longtime friend and admirer changed his mind about the Arizona senator's integrity. The reversal of opinion happened in 1992, after the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs and following a series of recorded phone calls with McCain. Said Guy, "I don't trust John anymore. I think he's a total liar."

POW John Dramesi, who escaped from the North Vietnamese, was recaptured and brutally beaten, and later became the chief USAF war planner in Europe and Strategic Air Command wing commander, alleges today that "McCain says his life changed while he was in Vietnam, and he is now a different man. But he's still the undisciplined, spoiled brat that he was when he went in."

It's worth noting that ONLY one American POW has been honored by a statue in Hanoi. That person is Senator McCain.

Finally, if you're an undecided voter, learn about Songbird and his treasonous POW record by clicking on: Vote Against McCain (one of the HOTTEST anti-McCain sites on the Web)

Other websites freedom-loving Americans should visit, especially veterans like myself, are:
How McCain Betrayed His Fellow Vets
Iraq Vets Against the War
U.S. Veterans Dispatch
Vietnam Vets Against John McCain
Veterans Voice
Vote Veterans

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Most "Heroes" of a High Profile are "Vile Patriots"
Posted by: muservin on Oct 17, 2008 3:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mother Jones ran as their cover story about 20 years ago a great piece, with green-hued soldiers, called "Vile Patriots" about all the so-called decorated super-heroes of our aggressive wars, such as Vietnam and Iraq. Turns out, a lot of them were there for the money, drug-smuggling, intrigue, and the whole nine yards. It's only my opinion, but it's interesting to see it shared here, that the non-stop hoopla about McCain The Hero, to be doled out to us by the 55 gallon drum, is perhaps a bit exaggerated. I've seen this phenomenon too often, with the sons of the privileged (see: Prescott and Poppy Bush, or that personal favorite, Ollie North) heralded as real hot shots overseas, and yet they do nothing but betray the interests of the rank and file within our borders, and everywhere else, all the while claiming the most Xtreme patriotism.

No surprise to me if McCain is just a lot of bilge, since we have nobody's word but his that he was so brutally treated.

I have heard elsewhere, and seen photos of his capture, that would suggest he was not treated inhumanly, at all. A case is certainly made that he may have (may have) been a great coward, in fact.

I only judge him by the deeds I know: he betrays the interests of the majority of Americans, and sucks up to the rich and powerful, at every twist and turn of the road of his sorry life. Never has he showed his himself a friend of the Vet, while always trying to "cap" on his "rapport" with them, such as the smarmy scene we saw in the second debate with Obama, touted by MSM as a real snap shot from that dog and pony show.

I've seen photos of his crash, and it looked like the villagers were rescuing him, not tormenting him, in simple peasant goodness, in total ignorance of the toxins they were handling.

I've also seen countless photos, and evidence, on the scene, that we treated many ab Asian in Indochina, without the same regard we'd treat a rabid dog, in many cases. And see "The Quiet American" and Graham Greene's chilling and mysterious account of massacres there.

So, what's your view, American?

Peace: JE

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

dipconsult
Posted by: dipconsult on Oct 17, 2008 4:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know Vietnam well - I lived in all three ex-French Indochina countries for over 4 years in the '50s before the American Vietnam war. I worked there twice during that war. And in the late 70's and 80's I worked with the Vietnam government over Cambodia which was becoming independent of Vietnamese tutelage after the Khmer Rouge "auto-genocide").

I would very much like to know the truth about what treatment Senator McCain received in Vietnamese hands.

The Vietnamese, like some (most?) other peoples, can be very cruel indeed. The North Vietnamese with whom I dealt during America's Vietnam war and later, were though very pragmatic despite their communist ideology.

So I am inclined, prima facie, to believe - up to a point - the Vietnamese captor's claim. Certainly the N.Vietnam govt was aware from the beginning that they held a particularly important prisoner and wanted to make as much use of him politically as possible. Which indeed they tried - not without success - to do.

(Though all these years later whether they are happy to see Senator McCain President of the US is very doubtful - despite his work to get Hanoi recognised, they would almost certainly prefer someone who believes in speaking to real or potential opponents and who better understood world financial and other problems).

So, prima facie, they would - as the captor says - have been out to save McCain's life (as indeed their medical efforts show he certainly seems to have got priority treatment). This suggests that they would not have tortured him physically (meaning torture in its proper, and not in its tarnished G W Bushian, sense).

I would expect though, that they probably used great psychological pressure to try to attain their ends - and that is extremely unpleasant. And often leaves profound psychological scars - perhaps consistent with Senator's decades long determination to "cash in" politically on his own version of what happened to him in Hanoi.

But one must be very careful in drawing conclusions with such evidence as we have. Can we not find more witnesss, Vietnamese, American and other (e.g. neutrals who visited prisoners?)

Given what has come out so far, the evidence such as we have, does though, appear to conflict with the Senator's description of his treatment as physical torture in the usual sense of the word.

On this presidential election much of my consultancy's work is at www.dipconsult.eu

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: dipconsult Posted by: nomomorons
ENOUGH!
Posted by: eaajdjholton on Oct 17, 2008 4:15 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
PLEASE!

Swiftboat anyone?

Aren't we better than this?

How can we deride them for their sleazy politics when we give them things they can point to that are equal to if not worse than what they are doing?

Let's try to maintain a position where we can hold our heads high--let's not sink to their level.

God forbid this should show up in a political ad by some shadow 527 group.............

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: NOUGH! Posted by: mcyclemama
» RE: NOUGH! Posted by: eaajdjholton
» RE: NOUGH! Posted by: badkitty68
» RE: NOUGH! Posted by: eaajdjholton
Gray Hair at 25 Here
Posted by: cherylholmes on Oct 17, 2008 5:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Started at age 25 from the torture dealt to us by the Rethug party...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Gray Hair at 25 Here Posted by: camanokat
NO TORTURE. NOT WHEN YOU ARE COOPERATING WITH THE ENEMY.
Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Oct 17, 2008 5:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Old navy men say that after McCain was captured the enemy suddenly knew things. Navy people were killed by this new knowledge on the part of North Viet Nam. The Navy knew what McCain had been told. They could see what North Viet Nam now knew. The old hands believe that he was a collaborator.

YES, YOU ARE RIGHT. HE WASN'T TORTURED.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

TOXINS? PREMATURE GRAYING? FAMILY TRAIT?
Posted by: wellaware lec on Oct 17, 2008 6:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
DU WAS USED IN VIETNAM WAR, AS WELL AS AGENT ORANGE. ALSO, WHAT ABOUT REST OF HIS FAMILY? ALTHOUGH HARD TO KNOW THESE DAYS, WITH SO MANY PEOPLE DYING THEIR HAIR...
EXTREME TRAUMA CAN ALSO CAUSE THIS, AS WELL AS SOME MINERAL DEFICIENCIES...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

McCain's PRISONERS in Arizona
Posted by: X-POLYGAMIST WIFE on Oct 17, 2008 6:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did John McCain ever lift a finger to stop the human rights violations in Colorado City, Arizona, the largest polygamous enclave in America?

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Arizona Senator Linda Binder talks about John McCain who wouldn't even return her calls when she asked for help.

While thousands of innocent Americans were forced into white slavery, and young girls were raped by FLDS pedophiles, John McCain stood idly by.

Watch the video:

http://www.bankingonheaven.com/

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

This is Stupid
Posted by: bystander on Oct 17, 2008 6:42 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is this our "Democratic" response to the Bill Ayers swipe? To me, McCain represents the Republicans and all their "me first" excesses but as far as what really happened in a prison in Vietnam 35 years ago, leave it for the Midnight Sun to speculate on. This article smacks of the same kind of unsubstantiated whining paranoia as the Republican aristocracy so often manufacturers. We can do better - it should be removed from this site.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: This is Stupid Posted by: Sagan
» Another take on it Posted by: Quasar
You're better than this AlterNet
Posted by: Sagan on Oct 17, 2008 7:14 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
An NVA prison guard says "We never tortured McCain. On the contrary, we saved his life"?

And conditions in the prison "tough, though not inhuman"?

"My men were all communists and atheists,"

Well, if he says so then it MUST BE TRUE!

Come on Alternet. You're better than this.

We all know McCain is a douche, we all know his ideas are bad for America.

But give me a break.
As much of a liar John McCain is, does ANYONE seriously believe that the conditions in an NVA prison camp were not "inhuman"??? Does anyone seriously believe that EVERY single American they could get their hands on wasn't tortured in some shape or form???

The Vietnam War was an unimaginably brutal conflict with both sides tossing aside notions of shared humanity. It was barbaric, truly. Considering what both sides did each other on the battlefield and off, I have no doubt that the NVA would've had every desire to carry out any revenge they could on any American they could get their hands on.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: You're better than this AlterNet Posted by: BigElectricCat
Jarhead
Posted by: Jarhead on Oct 17, 2008 7:53 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What? You want a communist guard to admit that he tortured McCain?

This article, and its appearance on Alternet, is an attempt to smear Senator McCain and U.S. servicemen. If you don't like McCain's politics or point of view, then simply don't vote for him. For instance, you might disagree with his stance on the war on terror, abortion, taxes, the bail-out, the environment. But this specific article is propoganda intended to mislead voters about McCain's good character and the terrible suffering he endured at the hands of his captives. I would agree with anyone who says you should not vote for Senator McCain just because he was a POW and tortured. It has been argued on the other hand, that his experience and the honorable way he handled himself speaks volumes about his good character which is one component that qualifies one for the Presidency. This article is nothing more than a pathetic response.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Jarhead Posted by: boing007
» RE: Jarhead Posted by: ConnecttheDots
John McCain and George Herbert Walker Bush
Posted by: muktuk on Oct 17, 2008 7:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Both John McCain and George Herbert Bush have a lot in common with each other:
Both served their country honorably as naval aviators in two very different wars.
Both exaggerated the truth of their military service for political gain.

But only John McCain was shot down by enemy action- George Bush was not:
He bailed out of his aircraft abandoning his two crew members to certain death.

The following excerpt is from: - GEORGE BUSH: THE UNAUTHORIZED BIOGRAPHY - PART 2 of 8

Mierzejewski, who is also a recipient of the Distinguished Flying Cross, told the "New York Post" that he saw "a puff of smoke" come out of Bush's plane and quickly dissipate. He asserted that after that there was no more smoke visible, that Bush's "plane was never on fire" and that "no smoke came out of his cockpit when he opened his canopy to bail out." Mierzejewski stated that only one man ever got out of the Barbara II, and that was Bush himself. "I was hoping I would see some other parachutes. I never did. I saw the plane go down. I knew the guys were still in it. It was a helpless feeling."

Mierzejewski has long been troubled by the notion that Bush's decision to parachute from his damaged aircraft might have cost the lives of Radioman second class John Delaney, a close friend of Mierzejewski, as well as gunner Lt. junior grade William White. 'I think [Bush] could have saved those lives, if they were alive. I don't know that they were, but at least they had a chance if he had attempted a water landing," Mierzejewski told the "New York Post."

The lesson from this is whether we as a people choose our leaders based on their wealth and family connections, or,

whether we as a people choose our leaders based on their intelligence, ability and compassion for all citizens.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

the world is much smaller now
Posted by: cyr3n on Oct 17, 2008 8:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
you know what's funny? The world is a much smaller place now partly due to the internet, commercial airlines, and affordable video recording equipment. Back then, you could tell a giant whopper of a tale about something that happened overseas with little to no reprocussions. These days, a warbride can hunt you down for child support! Point being, he probably told this tale when he felt he could get away with embellishing it a little. These days that wouldn't fly.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

LOL
Posted by: websmith on Oct 17, 2008 8:22 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A communist POW prison guard says that McCain wasn't tortured. That newsworthy.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» ROTFLMAO!!!! Posted by: Quasar
» ROTFLMAO!!!! Posted by: Quasar
» RE: LOL Posted by: rob-bot
Swift-boating?
Posted by: jdonovan on Oct 17, 2008 8:37 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First of all, it seems silly to me that we'd take the word of McCain's captors at face value. Our guys lie about, redefine, and cover up torture all the time. But more importantly, even if it were true that John McCain wasn't tortured, it seems like it doesn't terribly cheapen his experience as a POW, let alone his presidential bid. Pain and humiliation don't make presidents; policies and politics do. This just seems like last-minute swift-boating, and besides I don't see the point. Obama's way ahead in the polls; I know I'm voting for him. There's no need to accuse McCain of embellishing stories of an indisputably horrific part of his life.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Swift-boating? Posted by: Morell
» RE: Swift-boating? Posted by: Quannah
I sure do hope that if mcsame/palin wins..
Posted by: donl51 on Oct 17, 2008 8:48 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that mcsame doen't hit the ground running,because I'd sure as hell not want to see Palin as president!!///''OMG!''

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Oh please, this is a new low
Posted by: eeezzz on Oct 17, 2008 8:51 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
for alternet. Obama is winning - get a grip!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Broken Arms?
Posted by: Hankbrilliant on Oct 17, 2008 8:59 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not voting for John McCain. But if all this hoopla about his supposedly not being tortured is true, why can't he raise his arms above his head?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Broken Arms? Posted by: fsuthai
» RE: Broken Arms? Posted by: orwellturns
Right...
Posted by: Frank J. Burris on Oct 17, 2008 9:07 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...and John Kerry inflicted his own wounds in Vietnam. Does McCain just have really serious arthritis? Is that why he can't raise his hands above his head? This is pretty disgraceful.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

What's important
Posted by: LeeAnnG on Oct 17, 2008 11:32 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
McCain may or may not be a hero. The definitions and standards aren't the same for everyone. Perhaps he was tortured, and maybe he wasn't. I do find all the cheerleading about his past POW status to be a bit much, but he's a tired old man and entitled to his nostalgic ramblings.

But when it comes to military issues, the fact that McCain voted against the GI Bill as well as against increased funding for veterans' health care multiple times makes him a traitor to his own cause.

It doesn't matter to me if he broke under pressure while being tortured, if he refused early release due to his own honor or if he refused it because it was standard military practice to do so, or even if he was a bad pilot with a history of recklessness.

That all happened decades ago. What I care about is that McCain uses his POW record to promote his patriotism, his experience, and his loyalty to the military while voting to deprive those who serve of the just rewards they have earned.

I am absolutely against the Iraq invasion and occupation, as I was the Vietnam debacle. I am aware that US troops often commit atrocities, kill innnocent civilians, and torture. And I know that the military is voluntary, so there's a case to be made that they knew what they were getting into. However, many members of the US forces were poor and saw the military as a way to find economic security. Others really and truly believed in bringing democracy to oppressed people (right or wrong). Some were tricked into signing up.

But in any case, these people - mostly very young and sometimes even too young to drink alcohol legally - put themselves in danger for what they believed was the good of their country. Many, many of them had no idea what they had signed up for, and quite a few were in the National Guard.

We now have troops returning with serious physical and mental illnesses, unable to get jobs or medical care. We have veterans living on the streets and in poverty. And we have McCain, the Big Promoter of His Military Record and Lover of War voting against funding for the health of these broken individuals. He has voted against funding to send them to college.

McCain doesn't have to worry about his own economic security or health care. He comes from a wealthy family, married an even wealthier woman, and has had his own socialized medicine courtesy of the US taxpayer the whole time he's been in the senate. He's a hypocrite of the worst kind, no matter what he did or what was done to him 40 years ago.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

any quotes from other POWs?
Posted by: whealeydj on Oct 17, 2008 11:41 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the author of this article should interview other POWs about the claims of this North Vietnam officer. just because I think Mccain would be a fiasco as President doesnt mean we should buy the denials of North Vietnamese torturers. like several others I think this article is swift boating McCain and is unworthy of Alternet.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

darkmark
Posted by: darkmark on Oct 17, 2008 12:55 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
seems there is enough evidence to at least be curious. winston churchill doctored his bio from all his fellow soldiers say. i think the most evidence is mccain's refusal to let mia groups access to information that would have seemed reasonable for them to have. after all they were the ones that lost someone. their husbands and fathers didn't come back. so why did mccain refuse them access to the readily available information on the pows still missing? the only senator that held that position, no you can't see that information. why because i say so. no there is no reason to suspect mccain of lying. no,, no reason.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Karl.Ben smeared Col. David Hackworth
Posted by: ProudVietnamVet on Oct 17, 2008 3:25 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a previous response on another thread today, AlterNet user Karl.Ben smeared the reputation of the late great war hero and super patriot, Colonel David Hackworth.

Responding to a comment by NoMcCainPalin, Karl.Ben alleged the following:

"He [Hackworth] wore medals he did not earn and seems to have a history of unbalanced behavior. There is nothing credible about him."

Regarding NoMcCainPalin's retort that Hackworth had been "exonerated of all accusations that he didn't earn his medals," Karl.Ben said that wasn't true and accused NoMcCainPalin of spreading lies.

Previously I have been an AlterNet reader but not a commentator. Because of Karl.Ben's unfounded and malicious attack against MY hero, Col. Hackworth, I have decided to participate in veteran-related AlterNet conversations, starting with the following defense of "Hack":

Before his death from cancer in 2005, CNN and the CBS evening news with Dan Rather questioned the accuracy of Hackworth's own military decorations.

In particular, the reports accused Hackworth of claiming a Ranger tab to which he was not entitled and an extra Distinguished Flying Cross on his website.

Hackworth threatened to sue CBS and requested a formal audit of his military records. In response to the military audit, the Executive Producer of CBS News sent a letter to Hackworth that stated:

"The Army's audit of its records has determined that the Army made an administrative error back in 1988, when it reissued your medals and awards."

"Along with numerous other decorations, the Army mistakenly issued you a Ranger Tab and two Oak Leaf Clusters for your Distinguished Flying Cross. The Army has thus verified what we reported as your explanation of the matter."

"As far as we are concerned, the Army audit makes clear that you [Hackworth] did not at any time wear or claim any military honor not actually issued by the U.S. Army, based on its official records, including the service record you signed and dated."

"At the same time, CBS continues to believe that our reports did not state or imply that you knowingly wore or claimed decorations not issued by the U.S. Army and that any such inference drawn from the reports would be mistaken."

"Indeed, as we believe we made clear in our reports, by all accounts you are a man who has shown extraordinary heroism in your service to our country, and has deservedly been awarded many of the nation's most coveted awards for valor."

Karl.Ben should be ashamed of himself for smearing a deceased war hero. Hopefully, AlterNet readers will ignore any criticism he has of Col.Hackworth.

Attention NoMcCainPalin: Please email me so I can help you expose Songbird McCain as the traitor he is. My address is: WAL737Captain@aol.com

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

StealBackYourVote.org
Posted by: cori on Oct 17, 2008 4:01 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Investigation by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and Greg Palast released today

Don’t worry about Mickey Mouse or ACORN stealing the election. According to an investigative report out today in Rolling Stone magazine, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and Greg Palast, after a year-long investigation, reveal a systematic program of "GOP vote tampering" on a massive scale.

- Republican Secretaries of State of swing-state Colorado have quietly purged one in six names from their voter rolls.

Over several months, the GOP politicos in Colorado stonewalled every attempt by Rolling Stone to get an answer to the massive purge - ten times the average state's rate of removal.

- While Obama dreams of riding to the White House on a wave of new voters, more then 2.7 million have had their registrations REJECTED under new procedures signed into law by George Bush.

Kennedy, a voting rights lawyer, charges this is a resurgence of 'Jim Crow' tactics to wrongly block Black and Hispanic voters.

- A fired US prosecutor levels new charges - accusing leaders of his own party, Republicans, with criminal acts in an attempt to block legal voters as "fraudulent."

- Digging through government records, the Kennedy-Palast team discovered that, in 2004, a GOP scheme called "caging” ultimately took away the rights of 1.1 million voters. The Rolling Stone duo predict that, this November 4, it will be far worse.

There's more:

- Since the last presidential race, "States used dubious 'list management' rules to scrub at least 10 million voters from their rolls."

Among those was Paul Maez of Las Vegas, New Mexico - a victim of an unreported but devastating purge of voters in that state that left as many as one in nine Democrats without a vote. For Maez, the state's purging his registration was particularly shocking - he's the county elections supervisor.

The Kennedy-Palast revelations go far beyond the sum of questionably purged voters recently reported by the New York Times.

"Republican operatives - the party's elite commandos of bare-knuckle politics," report Kennedy and Palast, under the cover of fighting fraudulent voting, are "systematically disenfranchis[ing] Democrats."

The investigators level a deadly serious charge:

"If Democrats are to win the 2008 election, they must not simply beat McCain at the polls - they must beat him by a margin that exceeds the level of GOP vote tampering."

Block the Vote by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. & Greg Palast in the current issue (#1064) of Rolling Stone. [Media enquiries - Dave Falkenstein, Sunshine Sachs & Assoc, via interviews@gregpalast.com.]

Note - Kennedy and Palast are releasing, simultaneously with the Rolling Stone investigative report what they call, the vote-theft 'antidote': a 24-page full-color comic book, Steal Back Your Vote, which can be downloaded or obtained in print from their non-partisan website, StealBackYourVote.org

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I don't believe this
Posted by: Jeanne on Oct 17, 2008 4:29 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is necessarily an accurate story. You'd have to prove that Tran is who he claims to be, and that he was indeed one of McCain's captors. That being said, I think McCain's experience as a POW is absolutely no qualification to be president.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

history learns us
Posted by: richholland on Oct 17, 2008 11:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the communists treated imported people different/

the nazis and americans have the same strategy; reading about mccain, watching him at TV.I see no hero.
Why to torture somebody if he is usefull to you???

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Maggie
Posted by: mkm1948 on Oct 18, 2008 3:39 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sorry folks, I would prefer that we, as Obama supporters, not go down this road. I am uncomfortable with digging into McCain's time as a POW for several reasons. On a personal level, I believe that time spent in a POW camp in enemy terrritory by its very nature is traumatic and horrible. Beyond that, politically, it would be suicide to nurture an investigation at this late hour in the campaign. Instead of losing votes for McCain, it would quite possibly lose votes for Obama.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Lies Beget Lies
Posted by: tommy57 on Oct 18, 2008 6:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First and foremost Medal of Honor recipient Col George "Bud" Day is a piece of gutter crap from the worst sewer in America. I had the displeasure of hearing him speak in Panama after we illegally invaded and removed Strongman Manuel Antonio Noriega - good friend of Bush I. But like all Bush's; he turned on Noriega like a rabbit dog on his master. Col Day stated that if there were any US prisoners in left in Vietnam, they were collaborators. What fucking jerk! He got his Medal of Honor for attempting to escape from two prison camps. He did not deserve the medal. He did nothing heroic, saved no one and as a result of his attempts, others in the camps were punished.
John McCain was not tortured but Day lied about his collaborating friend to get his medal of honor. While McCain was getting the kid glove treatment Day was doing his collaborating too I am sure. They are both a couple of losers who sought empathy from the American public after the war, profiteering, while the real heroes fought and many died in the ground wars of Vietnam. Johnny “please don’t hurt me – my daddy is an admiral” McChicken, has the audacity to raise questions about Barrack Obama, knowing he was a coward during the Vietnam War. Johnny was liar during and after the war and is a liar now!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

A little less FReeperish, please.
Posted by: Beastly on Oct 19, 2008 10:25 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While I don't believe the "cross in the sand" story, this is just ridiculous. How do you impute more credibility to McCain's captors than his fellow prisoners? This reminds me of the FReepers, who would take the word of any unknown person on the internet over that of all fact-checking organizations and major daily newspapers, so long as the story makes Obama look bad.

And if your response is that we should 'fight fire with fire,' consider that such an attack as this will only backfire, given its source, and the simple fact that McCain's POW story is so cherished by the nation that to sully it, rightly or not, will only engender resentment.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

unworthy news
Posted by: Jeanne253 on Oct 19, 2008 1:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why on earth would you print an article from a Communist prison guard? And also to dig up Senator McCains POW days and try to discredit him in this way. Shame on You!!!!!!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: unworthy news Posted by: orwellturns
Interesting
Posted by: billyweather on Oct 21, 2008 7:25 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you believe McCain wasn't tortured, you probably also believe there are no gay people in Iran. You probably also believe 9/11 was an inside job and the tooth fairy is real.

Pathetic. Sad.

Very reliable source too. A prison guard. Good grief.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Interesting Posted by: orwellturns
  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Advertisement
Advertisement