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Election 2008

Obama Three for Three: Short Takes on the Final Presidential Debate

AlterNet. Posted October 16, 2008.


AlterNet's Don Hazen, Liliana Segura, and Steven Rosenfeld on the debate, along with Jane Hamsher and Katrina Vanden Heuvel.
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Don Hazen:

On the day that the Dow went down 733 points -- the most ever in a single day -- after going up almost a 1,000 the day before yesterday -- also the most in a single day -- John McCain showed that he really can't change at all. McCain had to transform his method and tone of communicating to have any chance of gaining any ground against the unflappable and eerily consistent Obama in the third debate.

But McCain couldn't change at all and, in fact, did worse. His scripted Joe Plumber scenario didn't pay off and left the viewers confused. His attacks about Bill Ayers reduced his favorables consistent with poll results. McCain has been on a losing streak for almost two months, and there is no sign he can break out of his self-imposed straightjacket and dependence on the Rovian tactics that have consistently proved unpopular except for his ever-narrowing hard core base.

While McCain didn't totally fail to address individual questions offered by Bob Schieffer and even made a couple of good points, it was the overall flavor of the encounter that was decisive. All McCain could do was ratchet up the persona he displayed in the first two debates -- he was more pushy, more agitated, more scripted, more aggressive, and as a result, he got nowhere. The two of them could debate 50 times and the results would be the same: Grumpy old man losses to smart, calm, cool and collected every time.

In the debates, Obama is like the player in a squash or racquetball game who plants himself in the middle of the court and can't be budged, winning point after point. McCain desperately tried to get around him, but there was no where to go. It is all about position, and Obama occupies the middle. Obama proudly said he was for tort reform angering the trial lawyers, for charter schools annoying the teachers, for clean coal, pissing off the enviros, and against late-term abortions, not the political position of pro-choice groups. In virtually every issue, McCain desperately tries to paint Obama as the extremist, but ends up with the opposite effect at the extreme end himself.

The McCain mantras -- Obama is for higher taxes, Obama is unilateral, Obama is against Colombia and free trade, Obama won't drill for oil, Obama is out of the mainstream of America on abortion -- all rang hollow because McCain has no credibility on these issues. Each time Obama is able to reframe McCain's attacks and persistently push out his message of middle class tax cuts, health care reform, energy independence, and investment in education. He does it over and over and over. For the third debate in a row, McCain did not utter the term "middle class," as if it is a stigma -- clearly not a way to win an election in America, in a time of acute economic distress when there is enormous hostility toward the wealthy bankers, hedge funders, and financial class whose astounding greed brought us to the abyss, and now everyone will pay for it.

Late in the debate was the clincher for McCain's demise. McCain lost it the most when discussing abortion, putting air quotes around “health of the woman," belittling women's health concerns as if it were a political slogan, This stage of the debate was infuriating, and will be remembered by millions of women. The notion that many women thought McCain to be pro-choice, is now ancient history.

Meanwhile, Obama went out of his way to show his support for aging single women who were desperate for health care. The marriage gap is huge -- with giant numbers of single women supporting Obama -- but now there is little doubt he is also going to get the majority of married women as well. The end result is we are looking at a potential rout -- the momentum just keeps building. The possibility of a huge victory for the Democrats seems not only possible, but likely, with even a decent chance of getting 60 seats in the Senate, an astounding achievement, should it come to pass, after eight long years of Republican rule.

Liliana Segura:

Who could have predicted, at the outset of the third and last presidential debate, that the largest looming presence would not be former Weather Undergrounder William Ayers after all, but rather, the once-anonymous (and by the end of the night, quasi-fictitious) man named "Joe the plumber"?

Joe -- an actual voter from Ohio whose last name is Wurzelbacher -- is a small business owner who, in an exchange with Obama last weekend, apparently expressed concern over his economic plan. At last night's debate, McCain employed Joe the plumber to wax ominous about Obama's plan to raise taxes on the wealthy (evidence, ostensibly of his socialist leanings). If Obama gets his way, said McCain, "We're going to take Joe's money, give it to Senator Obama and let him spread the wealth around."

Like "Joe six-pack," "Joe the plumber" quickly became shorthand for the average American, despite the fact that the average American does not own a small business, let alone a payroll. But both McCain and Obama adopted the narrative of Joe the Plumber, to mixed results. ("I loved Joe the plumber!" said one undecided voter in Ohio during CNN's post-debate coverage. "You're about the only one," said Soledad O'Brien.)


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After watching last night's debate, I think the bigots in America will finally get it.
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Oct 16, 2008 12:19 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Half black beats 100% old.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» There's only one threat, the Bushes? Posted by: salt-of-the-earth
» "Good old Mac!" Posted by: Cathyc
» You're a racist ass! Posted by: Karl.Ben
I WISH!
Posted by: weslen1 on Oct 16, 2008 1:07 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When McCain whined about someone at an Obama rally wearing a T-shirt that "offended" him and about Obama ads attacking his health care plan, I WISH Obama had jumped on that and explained to that PHONY PRETEND WAR HERO that that is not even on the same level as calling Obama a terrorist and inciting violence. And saying he's PROUD of the people who come to his rallys. He SHOULD be ASHAMED.
And Obama should have jumped on that "I know how to save money." McCain "knows how to win wars, fix the economy, catch Bin Laden, and now, save money." Why doesn't he share his secrets?
And when McCain again stated that "the tone of this campaign would have been a whole lot different" if ONLY Obama would have agreed with his "pleas" for 10 town hall meetings.
I nearly gagged when McCain said Failin' Palin is a "Role Model For Women". She's a "role model" all right. For every hooker who walks the streets of every city in the country.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: I WISH! Posted by: LOVELYT.
» RE: I WISH! Posted by: chackney
» RE: I WISH! Posted by: lovercat2942
» Role Model??? Posted by: DawnL
» RE: ole Model??? Posted by: LOVELYT.
» Please. . . Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: I WISH! Posted by: Bibsisis
» PHONY PRETEND WAR HERO Posted by: Cathyc
It's the economy stupid!
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Oct 16, 2008 1:39 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Forget everything else...it's the economy stupid! McCain has no clue and is a more craven pathological liar than Bush. Both proclaimed loudly that the economy is strong healthy and in no need of bolstering just two weeks ago. Indeed, McCain's chief economic adviser, the moronic Phil Gramm, denounced all detractors as "whiners." Who's whining now and who gives a damn about "Joe the plumber?" Obamarama ain't much, but he's the only choice in November. A vote for McCain/hood ornament is a confession of utter stupidity and need for confinement in a mental institution!

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It's all over now, baby blue
Posted by: Tom Degan on Oct 16, 2008 2:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is no way on earth that John McCain will be able to overcome this hurdle. Barack Obama clearly won last night. I just finished watching C-SPAN's re-run - It's over!

The only way the GOP will be able to retain control of the executive mansion will be by stealing this election. Don't put it past them. Lately, it seems that the talking point of the so called "Bradley effect" (people telling pollers that they plan on voting for the black candidate when, in fact, they won't) has been creeping into their conversation.

Is that part of their plan? As I said on this site elsewhere this morning, every poll has Obama winning this election - some in a landslide. If they attempt to steal this election - again - there will be a Revolution in this country - COUNT ON IT.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
George and Osama's October "Surprises"

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» RE: It's all over now, baby blue Posted by: racetoinfinity
» RE: It's all over now, baby blue Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: It's all over now, baby blue Posted by: nochicagoboys
» Thesis vs Anti-Thesis = Synthesis Posted by: poppalouie
» RE: It's all over now, baby blue Posted by: surfreality
» RE: It's all over now, baby blue Posted by: surfreality
» RE: It's all over now, baby blue Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: It's all over now, baby blue Posted by: surfreality
» RE: It's all over now, baby blue Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: It's all over now, baby blue Posted by: strange_trp
» But I AM an enemy combatant.... Posted by: Tom Degan
» ACtually........ Posted by: Karl.Ben
Poem recited at Obama's Inauguration!
Posted by: thinkverybig on Oct 16, 2008 3:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is my goal to get in touch with someone from the Obama campaign and share with them my desire to be a part of his inauguration by reciting a poem I wrote called “We Must Change,” and I kindly ask for your help in doing so.
Go to youtube and do a search for "thinkverybig" and watch all of those videos. The one called "We Must Change" would be fitting to recite at Obama's Inauguration
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM58nqX1ehE

Here are the words! http://www.thinkverybig.com/We%20Must%20Change.htm

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» Stop spamming! (nt) Posted by: brunowe
McCain Will Win by Rove Hacking the Vote-Like 2000 & 2004
Posted by: 911FalseFlag on Oct 16, 2008 3:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cyber Security Expert: Hackers Planning To Steal Election For McCain

Spoonamore says electronic voting machines represent national security threat, Israel, China and Russia have capability to rig presidential outcome

Paul Joseph Watson
[1] Prison Planet
Tuesday, September 30, 2008

Stephen Spoonamore warns in a new interview that electronic voting machines represent a national security threat and that hackers are already planning to steal the 2008 presidential election for John McCain.

Spoonamore is a GOP member and a lifelong Republican, having worked on election campaigns with Rudy Giuliani and Michael Bloomberg. He also has 20 years worth of experience in encrypted and networked communications systems for banks, TV, telecommunications, EMS, Military and other uses.

In an ten part You Tube interview, Spoonamore warns that hackers are planning to steal the election on behalf of the McCain camp and even predicts the margin of victory, that McCain will make a “shocking recovery” and win 51.2 percent of the vote with three electoral votes over Obama.

“This is a national security threat,” said Spoonamore, “it is very possible for a foreign government to begin manipulating that transmission of code just as they attempt to do fairly often with our financial data….we deal with it every day on the commercial side,” he added, noting that China, and not the American people, has a greater chance of choosing the next U.S. president.
Watch his videos on www.911insidejob.net

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It's time to let the L-word into politics
Posted by: woodstockdc on Oct 16, 2008 3:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was agog watching the debate last night. The number of times McCain flat out lied was absolutely astounding. It bothers me personally and morally that Obama let him get away with it but it's a strategy that I hope will work for him.

That said: these "debates" are a disgrace. Candidates rarely answer the question that was asked and not a single moderator has had the guts to say "That was a nice speech senator but you didn't answer the question. Will you answer the question or not?" It's because, I feel, that these reporters are afraid of losing their access.

I am truthfully bothered, though, about the line of attacks against Sarah Palin coming from the left. Yes, the woman is manifestly unqualified to hold high (any?) political office. Yes, she is a liar (see Rachel Maddow's show from 14 October http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp/27171061#27171061), and yes, it's likely that Palin has risen to the top through typical "mean girl" tactics. But is that any cause for attacking her from a sexual perspective as one previous commenter did, a tactic, I might add, that has been used against virtually every woman with ambition in history? No, it isn't.

So, yes, by all means call Palin a liar (she is one), call her unqualified (manifestly), but calling her a slut is the refuge of lazy when there's so much legitimate criticism available.

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The choice....
Posted by: Michel on Oct 16, 2008 4:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is so very clear to me.

OBAMA.
For those of you who are not sure even at this late date....
Think about this whether a Dem or Repub or Indep:

Pretend you are an observer from the outside. You have never heard of either candidate, nor been exposed to any of the writings of journalists, TV coverage or internet discussions.

Now, go through that final performance last night in your mind. OBJECTIVELY. Evaluate the answers...watch for how each candidate handles himself.

Ask yourself the following:

What image do you want your leader to portray to the world?

Who do you want representing you?

Who do you believe has your best interests at heart?

Personally, I want someone who is strong, educated, cool, and collected, commpasionate, and inovative. I do NOT want a person who will say anything to get elected. I do NOT what a someone who seems to bounce around answering defensively for his actions for the next 4+ years.


The time for deciding is near. In some staes we have even started to vote with early voting possible. Each of us has a very serious responsiblity to make an informed decision. It is my hope that every vote cast has had very careful thought behind it because this election truly decides the future of America.

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Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
» Winona LaDuke Posted by: Michel
McCains Mutiny! Too Old, too Sick and too DUMB!
Posted by: Ottomatic on Oct 16, 2008 4:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He was totally outclassed by Obama.
McCain is a nasty, bitter old Man.
John looks like death warmed over.
What happens if he falls down and expires?
It could happen at any time!
Senator McCain is a walking time Bomb.
He looks like his head is about to explode.
Same old tired Reptilian Politics.
Talk about broken records.
Someone should change his tape.
26 Years in the Senate and he is going to change things Now?
Too Little and too late!
The same Old Fiscal Conservative that spent you into the POOR house wants you to tighten your belt and pay for it.
Working Class get back on the tread mill.
Tax cuts for Billionaires!
Trillions for Crooked Bankers and None for You.
Trillions for War and Nothing for You.

Tinkle down Economics works for The Rich and Sucks for the people being pissed on.
Get out of the Toilet and
Stop falling for the same old
BU__! SH__!

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» McCain's Blessing -- GRIDLOCK Posted by: salt-of-the-earth
McCain is a phony and a huge Liar
Posted by: LOVELYT. on Oct 16, 2008 5:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm so disgusted with this lying fart I can't even find anything in my moral UPBRINGING that will allow me not to say what I really feel about this "elder". I was raised to respect my elders AND to show respect to those who respect me. BUT ALSO If someone lies to you, it's the lowest form of disrespect; is how I was taught. McCain lies with a grimmicing face as if he's AGITATED or disguted and thinking, "I could just take this N out back and strap him to a tree."
HE ACTS LIKE OBAMA IS OWING TO HIM! HE ACTS LIKE "DEALING" WITH OBAMA IS COMPARABLE TO HAVING GUM STUCK TO HIS SHOE!
He has a HOW DARE HE, expression on his face at these debates.
To the other side, it's fuel for them. To get the "let's him done" mentality to BOIL!

Also the new phrase which shows they support the confederate flag this year is "FIGHT!"
I've heard it from Trent Lott, Wicker, McCain,Barbour, Guiliani,Romney,Palin and Pat Buchanan. Not to mention every repuk candidate below the mason dixon line.
During the debate last night, McCain kept up with the lies. He know how to do "everything" we need to get America back on track. "He knows" how to lie and not well.
No base or campaign advisors could make McCain lie like he continues to do.
and...,
There is no comparison between the boo'ers at Obama rally's [at the mention of McPalin's ticket] to the lench mobs at McCain's rally's[when Obama's name is mentioned]. He seriously comes across as a bully who finally got the "A" whooping he needed. This whole entitlement thing that a pastor brought up during the primaries with Hillary, is so obvious with this white man from Mississippi. He totally acts like he should be the winner by default.

Lastly,
If He holds such high regard for John Lewis, why want his just call the man? Ask him why he made the comparison to George Wallace's bigot rousing with he and lying Palin's "Joe the plummer" and "Joe 6 Pack" calls for rebellion.

John McCain snarled and turned up his nose at the thought of "the health of the mother" when facing whether or not an abortion should be considered. I look forward to the day that his face is not longer on the tube because I never thought I could grow to hate someone I've never met. But McCain continues to find new lows. I cannot stand his "A"!
Get this done America. He lies to us while asking for our vote.
Is it any question whether or not he'll consider us from the privacy of the White House? I doubt it. He is a continuation of George W. Bush. Very true statement. He's so disconnected to the world that he actually has to be alerted via Verizon links as to what's happening from day to day in OUR WORLD and he's a part of the Government. :smh:=shaking my head

NO MORE!!!!!!!!!!!

OBAMA/BIDEN 2008

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Well, overall, pretty good. Sure, I wanted 3rd parties but I guess we can only get some.
Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 16, 2008 5:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's issues I have with Obama but Mccain presented himself far worse than I even expected. Even on the Ayers case, Obama attacked Mccain by tying Raygun to the mess. The day before the debate, Obama practically dared McCain to bring up the subject of William Ayers. McCain hesitated to do it, but moderator Bob Schieffer called his bluff saying to him: "Your running mate said he palled around with terrorists." McCain was now on the spot and angrily said: "I don't care about an old, washed up terrorist. But as Sen. Clinton said in her debates with you we need to know the full extent of that relationship. Obama calmly replied: "Bill Ayers is a professor of education in Chicago. Forty years ago, when I was 8 years old, he engaged in despicable acts with a radical domestic group. I have roundly condemned those acts. Ten years ago, he served and I served on a board that was funded by one of Ronald Reagan's former ambassadors and close friends, Mr. Annenberg." From now on, when the Republicans bring up Ayers, the Democrats are going to point out that one of Reagan's close friends liked him enough to put him on the board of one of his foundations.

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Big Government is Back??
Posted by: Yankeeinexile on Oct 16, 2008 5:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Under GOP leadership we have seen the biggest expansion of government with the creation of The Dept. of Homeland Security, and Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit.

GOP Big Government means endless wars, spying on citizens, searching citizens at airports, torture, ending habeas corpus.

If we are going to spend, it should be an investment in our society, not thuggary.

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» RE: Big Government is Back?? Posted by: ibolyap
My daughter's mother-in-law
Posted by: susy3c on Oct 16, 2008 5:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My daugher's mother-in-law admitted to her son that she could never vote for Obama because "then black people will enslave us all!!" Eeek, eeek, eeek (as in psycho shower scene)!!! My husband said "We should be so lucky." Naturally she denies that she is a racist.

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» RE: My daughter's mother-in-law Posted by: stopthemaddness2
» RE: My daughter's mother-in-law Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com
See, the would be emporer has no clothes.......
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Oct 16, 2008 5:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
McShame lived down to expectations! Sen. Obama was articulate, intelligent, poised, and cool!

Can someone tell me what is the correlation between having town-hall meetings and negative attack ads!? And why did McShame point out his hurt feelings because he was compared to George Wallace? McShame fails to recognize that his running mate has likened Sen. Obama to "pallin around with terrorists", or that same racist behavior he has talked up to crowds at his rallies, can I say what nerve!

His behavior last night shows that he lacks coherence, has no plan to move this country forward, and is out of touch in the worst way with the "average American"! He was right about one thing - I'm mad as hell, and I'm tired of taking it anymore!!!!

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I See Two Puppets in the Picture
Posted by: salt-of-the-earth on Oct 16, 2008 6:11 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't watch TV but they say a picture tells a thousand words.

When I look at the picture posted with this story, I see two little boys sitting at their desks taking a test. They have both studied very hard to please their handlers. McCain looks like he is having a hard time remembering his lines but seems more comfortable and confident. Obama looks like he's tight and tense and embarassed to be where he is sitting.

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» You should have watched... Posted by: JohnJlws
» I might catch some clips on the Net. Posted by: salt-of-the-earth
» "subliminals" Posted by: JohnJlws
McCain is not the new Bush--he's the new Cheney
Posted by: taxidriver on Oct 16, 2008 6:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember when Cheney shot his friend in a hunting accident, and his friend apologized?

That's McCain--He wants Obama to apologize for McCain's hate-filled campaign, because Obama wouldn't agree to more town-hall debates!

And the "air quotes" and sneer that he had when addressing the health of pregnant women was really too much. It spoke volumes about his inherent nastiness and lack of empathy.

I used to respect John McCain, but now he simply creeps me out.

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» RE: McCain is Willy Loman Posted by: Portlyric
» Willy Loman-->Don't defile him! Posted by: Prairie Waif
did you notice
Posted by: babka on Oct 16, 2008 6:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
McCain's fully engorged left thumb?

and his remark about Palin as " a breast of freth air"?

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» RE: did you notice Posted by: stopthemaddness2
» RE: did you notice Posted by: Bibsisis
Meow meow meow meow
Posted by: Bliss Doubt on Oct 16, 2008 6:56 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I couldn't see which candidate looked better, because I heard the debate on the radio, but I think I can make a safe bet. I started to lose interest during the little cat fight over who had the nastiest campaign ads. Aren't these guys supposed to be politicians? Then I listened to them trying to out-same themselves over the mysterious cuts to inefficient government, without, of course, any specifics. I was disgusted when Obama expressed that he didn't care if he alienated himself from environmentalists over "clean coal", and terrified when McCain spoke of 30 (or was it 40) nuclear power plants. At some point I knew it was never going to become interesting, and that neither of them was going to say anything I wanted to hear, so I turned it off and made dinner. Nader Nader Nader. That's who I dreamed of. If there was a change, and McSame and O'Same did start talking about our next president's positions on human rights, torture, the degradation of our constitution, four more wars, putting Wall Street thugs behind bars, protecting our social security, the environment, please post here, so I'll know.

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» Beck Posted by: Bliss Doubt
» Clean coal, and Nader Posted by: Hans B
» Clean coal IS a hoax Posted by: Bliss Doubt
RE: Worst Than Bush
Posted by: left_libertarian on Oct 16, 2008 5:21 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama is just another Spineless Democrat. A party too wimpy to take on the criminals Bush and Cheney. Two terrorists who have done more harm to our country that Osama bin Laden could ever dream.

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Chappie
Posted by: ChapWriter84 on Oct 16, 2008 7:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wondered if others had caught John McCain's goof. He talked about "autistic" children, with a later reference to Palin's "special interest" in helping children with autism. Her child has Down syndrome, not autism!
NBC's Mark Murray had caught it. See firstread.msnbc.msn.com

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» I wondered about that too! Posted by: sunspot
» RE: I wondered about that too! Posted by: franny59
» RE: Chappie Posted by: LiveFree
» RE: Chappie Posted by: Bibsisis
McCain-Palin
Posted by: frank69 on Oct 16, 2008 7:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush-Cheney=McCain-Palin.

Does anyone really want to replace Dumb&Dumber with Stupid&AlasAsska?

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» RE: McCain-Palin Posted by: LiveFree
» RE: McCain-Palin Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com
» Cheney as "dumber"? Really? Posted by: rickiey
Litmus test
Posted by: kindmuse on Oct 16, 2008 7:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow! 3 women commented on this article with a summary of the debates and not one of them mentioned the foopah McCain mentioned about his supposed litmus test he would not implement regarding abortion? (I paraphrase) He flat out said that a good Supreme Court Justice nominee would be submitted based on good experience and that he thought someone who would vote in favor of Roe V Wade wouldn't pass that test.

Sounds like a litmus test too me?

Good summary though.

peace

~V

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Whichever guy won, we lose.
Posted by: throck on Oct 16, 2008 7:17 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama's policies, including Afghanistan, have already been tried. By the former Soviet Union. McCain will continue our path to destruction while Obama will lead us down a different path of destruction. A valid alternative would be nice.

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» RE: Whichever guy won, we lose. Posted by: Bliss Doubt
OLD MAN MCCAIN, OVER THE HILL, DONE, HE LOOKED LIKE A BAD CARTOON
Posted by: stopthemaddness2 on Oct 16, 2008 7:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sad, he looked like a tired old cartoon. Insane McCain, doing the same thing; trying to get a different result. One change. Folks could see his disdain for WOMEN & WOMEN'S HEALTH!!! AND WOMEN'S WORK ISSUE. Notice how he nastily dismissed the Lilly Case that Obama brought up? He dismissed the old worn out terriorist, thing, he lost soooooooooooooo badly! He was an embarrassment, and seem like an angry old man. If he can't manage his anger on a simple stage, in a controlled debate, what the hell would he do in real life, with heads of countries who have differences? SCARY, and with his side kick Palin, it becomes UNTHINKABLE!! Something we can not afford. He never talked about his PLATFORM OR ISSUES, rather spent time attacking Obama, who just let those attacks roll off him like water and disappear! Obama was awesome! McCain looked like an old tired CARTOON!

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The [Mc]Cain Mutiny
Posted by: jmmartin on Oct 16, 2008 7:34 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hear GOPS are deserting McShame like rats from a sinking ship (of state). On the debate last night, he reminded me of Captain Queeg in *The Caine Mutiny.* The only thing he didn't miss was the little steel ball-bearings that Queeg kept rolling around in his palm when he was in trouble. As it was, he had to take notes with a Sharpie. This marker uses big strokes, easy to see, and McShame is blind to the fact that he is too old to be an effective president, too out of touch with the electorate, and...well, too pathetic. From the running commentary of a split screen, he also looks slightly deranged. I think he will exit politics for a retirement home in Arizona.

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Desperate McCain Has No Class
Posted by: Last Chance on Oct 16, 2008 7:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Part of McCain's debate strategy was to look at Obama with eyebrows raised as though Obama were saying something bizarre. It was a sort of "gotcha" stare, but it made McCain himself look almost demonic, as though he were trying to intimidate or even hypnotize Obama. But Obama kept on explaining things calmly and logically debunking McCains's tabloid insinuations, until at the end of the debate McCain looked like a crazy man and Obama looked rather sad and uncomfortable having to deal with him. I've seen this sort of thing before, and it still exists in isolated parts of the South where Black people are still psychologically intimidated. But no White person can publicly express racial hatred and McCain was obloged to deny his followers' prejudiced remarks. All that remained was intimidating body language, and that also failed. Gentleman Barack prevailed.

Throughout the campaign, McCain and Palin have been catering to that dumbed-down element within America, hoping they overlook their lack of a program for national recovery and relying more on provoking suspicion to win votes. Thus, if the election can be kept reasonably honest, Obama will win in a landslide -- but that is a very big IF. The Republicans successfully fixed the last two presidential elections and no doubt they are busy trying to fix this one too. So, there needs to be a very close watch and careful management of election procedures.

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NIce
Posted by: RedFoxOne on Oct 16, 2008 7:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No doubt about it. Obama kicked McBush to the curb once again! I cant believe anyone with an ounce of common sense is supporting McBush.

Jiff
Privacy Center

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» RE: NIce Posted by: DaBear
OBAMA IS BLACK ...AND IF HIS PLAN IS BEST WHY NOT, HIS MOTHER WAS WHITE GET OVER THIS HATE!!!
Posted by: stopthemaddness2 on Oct 16, 2008 7:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wonder if you mother in law found herself int his situation what would be her choice:

She is drowning in the middle of a lake, and two men were approaching her with help in a row boat. The black man was closer to her in his boat, the WHITE MAN was further to the shore. Would she wait until the WHITE MAN REACHED HER? Or would she chose the BLACK MAN to help her?
ASK HER THAT! We are drowning as a nation. This is not a time to see a man as a color, and not include his merit. Also tell her this; Obama was inside the womb of a WHITE WOMAN for NINE MONTHS, and after his mother died, he was raised by WHITE GRANDPARENTS! She should chose OBAMA on his merit, that he is MAN, a father, a brilliant man who has a clear vision to keep this entire nation from drowning. It should be the last thing on anyone's mind that the help given is a hand of a black man, white man or a green man.. just one hand who can.

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OBAMA IS BLACK ...AND IF HIS PLAN IS BEST WHY NOT, HIS MOTHER WAS WHITE
Posted by: stopthemaddness2 on Oct 16, 2008 7:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wonder if you mother in law found herself in the following, situation what would be her choice:

She is drowning in the middle of a lake, and two men were approaching her with help in a row boat. The black man is closer to her in his boat, the WHITE MAN was further to the shore. Would she wait until the WHITE MAN REACHED HER? Or would she chose the BLACK MAN to help her?
ASK HER THAT! We are drowning as a nation. This is not a time to see a man as a color, and dismissing his merit and ability to unite this nation and get us back on track. McCain does not have the best plan, and that was clearly demonstrated in this last debate. He is all about attack, and disdain for women, and their health issues. McCain is all about failed Bush policies, despite his late reference stating he is not. He's voted 90% of the time with BUSH and for BUSH POLICY. LOOK IT UP! His voting record on military troop funding STINKS! He has a running mate, Sarah Palin who is clearly unqualified.

Also tell her this; Obama was inside the womb of a WHITE WOMAN for NINE MONTHS, and after his mother died, he was raised by WHITE GRANDPARENTS! She should chose OBAMA on his merit, that he is MAN, a father, a brilliant man who has a clear vision to keep this entire nation from drowning. It should be the last thing on anyone's mind that the help given is a hand of a black man, white man or a green man.. just one hand who can.

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» Obama is not going to save anybody. Posted by: salt-of-the-earth
» RE: Obama is not going to save anybody. Posted by: salt-of-the-earth
You'd Better Duck Johnny Boy
Posted by: Purple Girl on Oct 16, 2008 8:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
McCains Desperation to not only win this election but salvage his Self repect, Integrity, and Legacy is Sad to watch.
But we must not fall into pity, McCains Mask Must be Ripped off like a bandaid- fast and efficiently.
Besides the Numerous question about his version of His 'Glory Story', John Mccain has Plenty to answer for. His Very Real Evidential association have not only landed at his Campaign doorstep they have piled it with shit.
Phil & wendy Gramm
Rick Davis
Schunaman
Black
Carly
Timmons
And about 90 more who have 'Proven ' Track Recordsthe Keating 5 was Froeshadowing of this Economic meltdown and That Mac only learned how to insulate himself a bit better for Exposure.
Why does these 'Debate' Moderators NEVER ask about Mac affiliation with the Anti communist Group who provide Aid & Comfort to the Fledgling AQ and Bin Laden in the '80's? Or his Hiring a former Lobbist for Saddam?
these Are Serious questions Americans Would like John McCain to elaborate On.
So the Media is in the Tank for Obama...Why do we still hear Rev Wrights name and Yet nothing about Hagee (Dangerous 'End of Days' zealotry) and Mac's Buddy LIEberman.
We need only Look over McCains Shoulder to Formulate Questions about Johns Associations and Determine what HIS History Reveals about which direction he would 'Lead US',History is an Accurate avenue for Deductive Reasoning.
Frankly looking at his 'experience' in Retrospect I HAVE A VERY GOOD IDEA WHO JOHN MCCAIN IS!

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"our beloved Nancy Reagan"
Posted by: olympia43 on Oct 16, 2008 8:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
McCain lost me with "our beloved Nancy Reagan." As I recall, Ron and Nancy's friendship with McCain ended over the way McCain treated his first wife--divorcing her when she was scarred by a serious car accident so he could court Cindy. I seem to recall the Reagans took the first Mrs. McCain into their home and along with Ross Perot provided for her medical care.

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» RE: "our beloved Nancy Reagan" Posted by: Bibsisis
Let's be honest
Posted by: aceriter on Oct 16, 2008 8:52 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Come, come, what are we doing here? McCain did pretty good and this should be admitted. Sure, Obama was unflappable, but what does this prove? McCain was much more specific in his comments while Obama was sliding all over the lot. In fact I'm surprised McCain let him get away with this.

I have no intention of voting for either of these guys. One is a smooth talking con man (Obama), and the other is a neo con madman who will get us into more wars on Israel's behalf--so who needs either one of them? But to be honest--for this debate anyway--Mccain was far more impressive.

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» RE: Yes - Let's be honest Posted by: Portlyric
» RE: Let's be honest Posted by: using
» RE: Let's be honest Posted by: using
» RE: Let's be honest Posted by: LiveFree
response to Tom and the idea that if McCain wins there will be a revolution....
Posted by: using on Oct 16, 2008 8:57 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
oh Tom...how will we make a revolution? and ever if hte average american wanted it...to what avail????? Remember the French Revolution....Hitler...Lenin....were the people better off? We need a plan......we need an active citizenry that watches even the leaders with best intentions and advises them of our needs and insights as it is happening..and then we can count on growing towards a democracy.
The question is how to make it happen. And even if we were unlucky enough to get the man who clearly does NOT have our best interests in mind -- we need the collective citizenry to stand firm...as a matter of fact..I guess .we need to begin to organize the many groups and people who stand for a better world........

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» What ya gonna do fer weapons? Posted by: Ky Lake Dave
» RE: What ya gonna do fer weapons? Posted by: surfreality
Joe is Worried More Than Ever
Posted by: websmith on Oct 16, 2008 9:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In order to get city, state, and other general contractor work, Joe the Plumber hires union plumbers. They get their health insurance through the union. It is deducted from their paychecks. Union plumbers cost Joe a lot more money than scabs, but a lot less money in law suits because they know how and why to do things the right way. Joe now knows that neither one of these guys have a clue and he is really, really worried.

The bank bailout that both of these guys voted for worries Joe, too, because he knows that the population has just had more wealth taken from them and they won't be able to afford to hire him.

http://ewebsmith.com/Finance/playboys.html

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McCain is offended?
Posted by: acmwallace on Oct 16, 2008 9:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
John McCain is offended by some of the comments and t-shirts at Obama rallies? Sheesh - has anyone at an Obama rally actually threatened McCain's life? That's one question I wish Senator Obabma had asked Senator McCain last night. A scary t-shirt is really somewhat less worrisome than a death threat, I would think.

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» RE: McCain is offended? Posted by: LiveFree
Obama is a Liar
Posted by: greatdanes on Oct 16, 2008 9:19 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Abortion.....OB Lied

Taxes........OB Lied

Guns.........OB Lied

School/Education...OB Lied

Ayers.....OB Lied

Voters If you Think it has been Bad under Bush(which it is) Obama is your Worse Nightmare.

Waren Buffet won't have enough MONEY for this Obama, Pelosi, Reid GREED Fest that is about to Pick Your Bones Clean........

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Please cut Obama some slack
Posted by: Kym525 on Oct 16, 2008 9:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like many of my liberal bretheren, there were times watching the debate where I wished Obama would have ripped McCain a new one (figuratively speaking). However, unlike my liberal bretheren--who are most likely white--I realized that the perception of the Angry Black Man is still prevalent in America. Had Obama gone after him as I am sure he could, we would have spent less time talking about the issues and more about Obama being "angry". In this society, angry equals violent when we're speaking of black people. I really don't understand why this seems to be news to so many.

Overall, Obama did McCain one better--he remained the voice of reason and calm in the face of McCain's attempts to rattle him. And as a constitutional lawyer, I am more than certain he was chuckling inside at McCain's big gaffe about Justice Breyer.

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A Game Ending Home Run
Posted by: JohnJlws on Oct 16, 2008 9:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
None of the pundits mentioned the stark contrast between the maverick's and Obama's closing statements. I know these are canned hogwash, but the dichotomy between these two candidates could not have been more pronounced.

The maverick's was a twisted, grimaced path run around and through a mean and nasty briar patch delivered in the eloquence of a punch drunk boxer who should have retired a number of fights ago.

Obama's was Obama: Controlled vision coupled with indisputable eloquence that left us wanting to continue the moment.

After 90 minutes of listening to the maverick rant about ACORN (how bizarre was that?), rant about big government and uncontrolled spending (look at the last 8 years sir), rant about this and that, roll his eyes, grit his teeth, and sit bug-eyed transfixed on Obama like some possessed Marty Feldman (I could even hear the maverick saying "it's eye-gore"), even after all that, I still could have sat and listened to Obama continue his closing argument.

I felt like I was watching a great hitter, dissected in slow motion, as the ball came to the plate and the bat connected in a crushing blow and then left the park to the awe-struck pandemonium of the crowd. Counting Biden's crushing the mayor, this was the fourth and final game in the World Series, but unlike in the usual baseball series, the outcome was never in doubt. After pitching three shutouts, Obama allowed the maverick to dink a couple of singles, but the outcome was never in doubt. If there had been a 20 run rule, this thing would have stopped before ACORN even came to embarrass the maverick.

19 days out and the maverick is still playing to his base. Good job, maverick, you've secured the far right of the republican party. I think I'm safe in saying, you have their vote.

However, barring theft, or the only October surprise that changes anything, a domestic terrorist attack (and we should all really, really question this should it happen), this election, sir, is over.

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Wimpy
Posted by: whathappened on Oct 16, 2008 9:26 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I understand that Obama is trying to take the high road when it comes to all this bullshit hate/fear stuff that McCain and Palin are dishing out....BUT....this insane, aging, greedy, lying idiot is downright endorsing hateful, negative ads AND Obama needed to make him be held accountable for it last night!!!
AND HE DIDN'T!!!
It just makes me so angry that McCain continues to get away with all this crap, basically supporting hate riots at his rallies (Palin majorly as well!) and Obama says nothing about it at the debate!
Especially nothing about Palins LACK OF ABILITY/INTEGRITY/EXPERIENCE/BRAIN to become President...if McCain croaks soon.

Meanwhile, Joe the Plumber gets center stage, even though he is still voting for McCain (which is a vote against his own financial interests!)

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Obama, the Chess Grandmaster
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Oct 16, 2008 9:49 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Chess players know that posting a Knight in the middle of the board exerts tremendous pressure on the other side to unseat it; and now matter how hard that angry old man tried to use his Bishops, Knights, Rooks and Pawns all failed dramatically.
McCain wasted valuable time and ignored a basic tenet of chess: development. He spent too much time focusing on chasing the Knight while overlooked his King.
His tone and methods of deployment by trumpeting Obama's past went nowhere. Obama met the challenge and his Knight is still on the vital e4 square. Obama was steely thruought the debate and held on jto the center of the board just like chess grandmaster like Bobby Fischer, Magnus Carlson, Judith Polgar, Gary Kasparov or Mikhail Botvinnik. And in a fit of anger McCain knocked over the board and skulked away in disgust and viewers saw the sad spectacle.
Lastly, McCain failed to castle and left his King in the middle of the board. Little Johnny lost emphatically last night. Hey, hey Johnny, you were checkmated!

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The EccentricUnstableWeird Face of McCain
Posted by: Iraan Ozono on Oct 16, 2008 9:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What most impressed me in the debate was not the contents of either candidates statements, which were basically as expected, but Mr. McCain's behavior when not speaking. His facial and body movements while "listening" to Obama's words, or even the questions were an rapid, endless stream of bizarre grimaces, flashes of anxiety and confusion, glares of rage followed by barely-achieved self-control. It was obvious and terrifying to watch, yet not mentioned by any of scorers.

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RE: Let's be honest...from a BETTER WORLD
Posted by: using on Oct 16, 2008 10:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
yes....McCain did pretty good.......if you are viewing it from his objective.
If his goal was to abort indepth discussion: He can be credited with stopping Obama from moving from repetition to an in depth discussion of specifics that would open up transparency and bring up a democratic discussion of the pros and cons that in the long run would benefit us all.

If his goal was to confuse, with doublespeak, the simplicity of his "let them eat cake" thinking: he may have succeeded with those who do not hear the difference between the Need and the Happening or the words and its potential. To clarify: he accused Obama of doublespeak, a practice that Bush used to sell us the war and he is using to cover up the limitations of this thinking. After all how does a tax cut to the wealthiest segment of society help the American economy? And if he privatizes social security and medicare and gives you $5,000 credit how will that benifit you? in the long run even the greediest will not benifit financially from these policies -- unless their goal is power over all? (Yertel the Turtle by Dr Sues....if i had to go from Orwell which is not very complex to Dr Sues to make my point you can imagine the level of current Republican thinking.

Clearly he has neither the plan nor the desire to develop a plan that could unclogged the "trickle down" pipe that the greedy time and again clog.

The only sensible plan for our time is the common sense Keynesian (spread it around) that culminates in enough going up...to keep the small percentage of "all for me-ers" rich enough to claim enough power without totaling the rest of us. Even Nixon, in a hard economy claimed, "Now we are all Keynesians".

Oh and our beloved William Buckley Jr when asked by Charlie Rose, "who will be the next new voice of the Conservative Party?" answered with his strong chin buried in his chest and his voice muffled: "the next new voice will be that of a socialist"...which the conservatives always confuse with the Democratic party's mantra.
Even Buckley's son wrote: "where can we go to get back the Conservative party of my childhood? -- and lets let the other party fuck things up for a change."
Oh and by the way, even Hoover, "two chickens in every pot" could not wait to have Roosevelt take charge and fix things.

Consider this, for right now, Obama is our only chance -- and by contrast, far better than the alternative.
If you want to help in the name of honesty...then help organize the citizenry that stands for "a better world" so we can have a voice that will monitor our NOT
SO PERFECT but A LOT BETTER THAN candidates.

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An explanation please
Posted by: BST on Oct 16, 2008 10:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sen. Barack Obama has been very fortunate in running against the lightning rods of the Bush legacy, Hillary and Bill Clinton and, now, McCain.

I think Obama's proposals do not always add up -- but in contrast to McCain with his jowl jumping in annoyance, he looks like perfection.

I'm still left wondering with all these incredible programs Obama is proposing to fix almost everything and his plan to give tax breaks, who's paying?

If someone can answer this -- without leaping on me -- I (and probably others) would very much appreciate an explanation. This is not a criticism, it's perlexity.

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» RE: An explanation please Posted by: using
» RE: An explanation please Posted by: LiveFree
A question would be...
Posted by: aonghus36 on Oct 16, 2008 10:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, why did the Republicans nominate John McCain in the first place? From their point of view, Mitt Romney would've been a better debater and more familiar with economic issues.
Oh yeah, he is a Mormon. Can't have that, can we? The suckers.

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» RE: A question would be... Posted by: salt-of-the-earth
Why Do Republicans Even Still Exist?
Posted by: yellow on Oct 16, 2008 12:17 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like the Whig Party (1834-1856) whose two decade debut in American politics ended uncerimoniously for lack political relevance, so, I suspect, the US Republican Party (1854-present) will end the same way and for much the same reasons. The Whig's became irrelevant because those with an anti-slavery position were effectively co-opted by the new Republican Party of Lincoln, those with a pro-slavery position like Millard Fillmore were more effectively co-opted by the Southern Democrats. Whig opposition to the hard money, pro-specie, anti-central bank (Bank of the US) agenda of Andrew Jackson in his last term alienated northern Jacksonian Democrats while their steadfast support for the "tariff of abominations" lost them the support of most southerners. The dwindling Whig constituency led to the decline of the Party after Millard Fillmore's term ended in 1853. The Compromise of 1850 split the Whigs irreparably, hastening their ultimate demise in 1856.


By the same token the Republican Party is also becoming irrelevant. Both Republicans and Democrats are big business parties, except the Democrats are more inclusive and realistic. The Democrats are not social Democrats and they are not the US equivalent of a Labour Party. Wall Street now gives twice the money to Democrats as it does Republicans for quite a good reason, the Democrats handle the economy better. Every economic indicator favors Democratic over Republican Administrations. Democrats have higher rates of GDP growth, wage and income growth, job growth, stock market growth, profit rate increases, lower budget deficits, lower rates of growth of the national debt and lower unemployment and balance of trade deficits. Democrats defend the US Constitution and civil liberties better. They fight crime better as shown by a 50% drop in violent crime during the period of Bill Clinton's two terms and a moderate upward spike in violent urban crime over the past four years under Bush, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics. Even values improve under Democrats from a Republican point of view; a buoyant economy under Clinton led to a 20% drop in the national rate of abortions. And of course, the Democrats are never afraid to use military force; they just do so with cooperation from our allies, with UN approval and with a better cause such as humanitarian relief from genocide or the genuine restoration of democracy as in Haiti in 1994. The Democrats are still an imperialist party in that they have never abandoned the pursuit of US hegemony. But they would never have pursued a destructive debacle like the Iraq War of 2003. In addition, it is unlikely that the 9/11 terror attacks would have occured during a Democratic Administration; Clinton foiled more terror attacks than did Bush including the 1999 twarted terrorist attack on LAX. Thus, Democrats are better at fighting terrorism.

So why the Republicans? Are they necessary? Do they do anything better than the Democrats? Yes, they create conditions condusive to laying the foundations of an American theocracy by repeatedly violating the establishment clause of the First Amendment to the US Constitution and they adroitly pursue culture wars. The Republican culture wars, theocratic struggles, homophobia and warmongering serves only the purpose of perpetuating their own power and a small core of uneducated fanatics that persist in following them. They have no other relevance. They don't add to US security, stature in the world, economic stability and prosperity or individual liberties. They have begun to feed up the very society that they have been ruling. It is a tragedy that the Party that begin as the anti-slavery party over a century and a half ago has now become the party of tyranny and intolerance. The Republican Party has nothing further to contribute to US political life. It's time for a change.

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CBS Poll
Posted by: PaulK on Oct 16, 2008 12:18 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A CBS poll of undecided voters showed that 53% thought Obama had won the third debate and 22% said McCain. I've never seen such a huge margin.

At this point Obama should be campaigning for coattails, trying to round up Senate seats. Also, he could spend election day in Cleveland shaking hands in those interminably long lines, reminding people across the nation without saying a word, that Republicans who create long lines are election crooks.

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» RE: CBS Poll Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: CBS Poll Posted by: LiveFree
joe the plumber will be a big problem for obama...
Posted by: Annapurna1 on Oct 16, 2008 12:57 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
mccain might not have won the debate on points..but he did succeed in creating a powerful new narrative for his campaign..and he will win if he keeps pushing it...

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The NYTimes said McCrazy took it to 'Bama.
Posted by: DaBear on Oct 16, 2008 2:03 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jim Rutenberg said, "At times showing anger and at others a methodical determination to make all his points, Mr. McCain pressed his Democratic rival on taxes, spending, the tone of the campaign and his association with the former Weather Underground leader William Ayers, using nearly every argument at his disposal in an effort to alter the course of a contest that has increasingly gone Mr. Obama’s way."

Wow, what a rush!

So far in three faux "debates" un-democratically excluding the other 2-8 candidates running for the Emperor's House, I've heard "both" sides claim victory every single time.

Here's what I see from a university educated, working-poor, ex-redneck, white male's POV: In three debates I've been horrified by what Obama & Biden had to say (clean coal, hunting bin Laden down and killing him, etc.) and unsurprised but equally galled at the vapid vitriol from McCrazy and Pallid.

So far the ONLY debates where I heard any substance and a genuine authentic vision of what CHANGE and HOPE actually might look like was during the third party responses on DN! and the Columbia Univ. third party debate, which NO ONE freebasing MSM into their consciousness got to see.

'Merkuh is the most fucked up excuse for a totalitarian nation state... the old USSR was at least transparent about it's chokehold. For me this last debate was worthy of Leonid Breshnev... boring as shit and even more worthless.

Welcome to the clusterfuck that is 'Merkuh. JDFU. The whole god dammed population needs a massive enema.

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At the risk of pissing off the landlord...
Posted by: DaBear on Oct 16, 2008 2:14 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don Hazen wrote: "Obama proudly said he was for tort reform angering the trial lawyers, for charter schools annoying the teachers, for clean coal, pissing off the enviros, and against late-term abortions, not the political position of pro-choice groups."

A debate isn't a friggin' racquetball or squash game, it's a showcase for issues and positions on those issues by candidates. Frankly this assessment by Hazen sound disgustingly like the NYTimes and the rest of the MSM filth.

I'm astonished and profoundly pissed off. jeezis, Don, you shoulda done better than that!

And frankly, if being able to piss off everyone on the Left is Hazen's idea of a conquering hero... Houston, we have a fucking problem.

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Oh I so didn't want to say this....
Posted by: DaBear on Oct 16, 2008 2:20 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem, of course, is that Justice Breyer was nominated to the Supreme Court in 1994, long before Obama was in the Illinois state senate (let alone the U.S. Senate). Clearly, McCain meant Alito; but more than his grimaces, his teeth-gnashing, his rapid-fire blinking and all-around unpleasantness, moments like these, in which McCain's age and apparent confusion are on full display, are troublesome to say the least.

Things like facts, context are utterly lost on "swing voters" and "undecideds".... if they haven't been able to choose the lessor of evils foisted on them by the corporation, 'Merkuh, Inc., it follows they're not too swift to notice gaffes like McCrazy's.

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The only brief moment where reality leaked into this "tale"
Posted by: DaBear on Oct 16, 2008 2:29 PM   
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But the premise of this entire debate, as The Nation pointed out in our lead editorial last week, is "quite simply nuts." The fetish about budget-balancing has become especially nutso with our economy headed for a severe recession. With banks halting lending, businesses laying off workers, state and local governments slashing services and cutting jobs, homeowners facing mass evictions, and consumers cutting back, a massive federal stimulus is critical to avoid economic pain and calamity. We have to end our deficit paranoia. Pragmatism and reality -- not ideology -- are driving forces right now.

Katharine let reality peek in but even then, the owning-class experience skews the lived-experience of most of us, sickeningly so.

Homeowners facing mass evictions? Already been happening, where've you been?! Our economy headed for a severe recession? Um, already long been there, you're a little late to notice the craptasm, Katharine.

But the core of this is the debates are worthless. They just are without everyone on the ballot being allowed to be there. When you're facing a top-down, no holds barred clusterfuck, you don't exclude an solution-idea just because it comes from a "third party"... people who DO, are demonstrating extinction behavior. There's no room for such shitheads... not anymore.

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If McCain loses, the GOP needs our help for 2012 NOW!
Posted by: zaxtervid on Oct 16, 2008 3:53 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OK, I know this is a lefty website but I'm going to go ahead and post this here anyway. You people are smart and I need your ideas.

Me and a friend were trying to come up with real dream tickets for the republicans' comeback in 2012. Just to go ahead and get people thinking. Here's what we got so far!

Joe the Plumber, Pres & Joe Sixpack, VP

William Shatner and Britney Spears

A Janitor and a Taco Bell Cashier

Paris Hilton and a Chihuahua

Boss Hogg from Dukes of Hazzard and a Xerox Repairman

Please add to the list. We can save the GOP!
-zaxtervid

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McBama: Two Headed Freedom Hater
Posted by: left_libertarian on Oct 16, 2008 5:22 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The good cop bad cop charade continues.

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McBama: Voted Yea for the Billionaire Bailout
Posted by: left_libertarian on Oct 16, 2008 5:27 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
McBama loves their wealthy masters.

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Johnny Blinkers
Posted by: truthfinder on Oct 16, 2008 6:49 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Besides the passsive-agressive grin, did you notice all the eye blinking that McCain did during the debate? It was continuous. One of the characteristics of a liar is rapidly blinking eyes. Go figure.

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a better world
Posted by: using on Oct 17, 2008 11:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ok...my memory did not serve me so well...quaker it is...which like a jew is not the marjority..
.the point I was trying to make ...is that they were acceptable despite not being white protestants......and Kennedy and Nixon were taken to the bosom of this country.

Maybe it is not the religion but if the ruling class can see a use for you. We have watched with our very eyes a great sucking of energy, wealth and power unseen since Hoover. And our only goal seems to be that we will return to a not so "just" system and belief in our prosperity, and good life.

And perhaps the ruling class knows this is a time for rebuilding...or else...there will be no one left to sell to..and for the future they need to begin the cycle of fattening up Hanzel and Gretel which means letting the animals (orwell) accumulate enough to expose their fangs and suck alot of it up again. .... unless ofcause we figure out how to break the cycle of human greed and the power that they enlist to enable them.

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a better world
Posted by: using on Oct 17, 2008 11:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ok...my memory did not serve me so well...quaker it is...which like a jew is not the marjority..
.the point I was trying to make ...is that they were acceptable despite not being white protestants......and Kennedy and Nixon were taken to the bosom of this country.

Maybe it is not the religion but if the ruling class can see a use for you. We have watched with our very eyes a great sucking of energy, wealth and power unseen since Hoover. And our only goal seems to be that we will return to a not so "just" system and belief in our prosperity, and good life.

And perhaps the ruling class knows this is a time for rebuilding...or else...there will be no one left to sell to..and for the future they need to begin the cycle of fattening up Hanzel and Gretel which means letting the animals (orwell) accumulate enough to expose their fangs and suck alot of it up again. .... unless ofcause we figure out how to break the cycle of human greed and the power that they enlist to enable them.

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Both Gore and Kerry were 3 for 3 after the debates
Posted by: Mystery Solver on Oct 17, 2008 8:42 PM   
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and yet it was GWB who served two terms. Post-debate polls are absolutely meaningless. Haven't you libs learned anything?

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alteneters should vote Obama to enable him to win
Posted by: whealeydj on Oct 18, 2008 5:57 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
as the Republicans are trying to win by suppressing the Obama vote whether by questioning registrations in swing states or saying there are few differences. If you cannot see the differences then of course you should vote Nader or McKinney but just think how you will feel when Palin becomes the 45th president.

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Joe the Plumber
Posted by: SgtCedar on Oct 18, 2008 10:36 PM   
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I just have one quibble. Joe "the Plumber" is not a plumber or the owner of a business. He may want to buy the business but could not run it if he did buy it. He has no license to do plumbing. Moreover, all indications are he is in no position to even try to buy the business. He even owes unpaid income taxes.

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