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Election 2008

Six Short Takes on Why Obama Came out Ahead in the Debate

AlterNet. Posted September 27, 2008.


AlterNet's Don Hazen and Joshua Holland weigh in, along with Taylor Marsh, Jane Hamsher, John Nichols and Sheryl Crow.
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Joshua Holland:

In the first head-to-head debate of the 2008 campaign, the financial crisis dragged what the McCain camp had hoped would be fought in the GOP nominee's comfort zone -- foreign policy and national security -- squarely into the realm of domestic policy.

Moderator Jim Lehrer made a smooth transition to the voters' top concern in this election, saying that we were facing a potential meltdown of the global economy, which was by definition a matter of "national security."

What followed was a microcosm of the 2008 race: Barack Obama dominated John McCain when the focus of the debate was on the domestic sphere and a fast-deteriorating financial sector, but ceded an enormous amount of political space to McCain on national security, accepting much of the Arizona senator's overarching neoconservative narrative that the United States is surrounded by mortal danger and evildoers and has a moral duty to maintain our forces in Iraq and elsewhere in order to defend the homeland.

McCain appeared twitchy and out of touch as the debate began with the banking meltdown and the Bush-Paulson plan to reverse it. He blinked rapidly and avoided eye contact with Obama, Lehrer and the audience as Obama came out swinging against McCain for enabling the "root causes" of the crisis to develop during decades in the Congress, including a long stint on the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation.

Obama articulately condemned what he called a "philosophy that says that regulation is always bad," and blamed its pervasiveness for the economic mess. McCain, moments before saying that we have the "greatest workers in the world" (and that the United States is simultaneously the "greatest importer" and "greatest exporter" in the world), tried to shift blame from Wall Street to Main Street -- from predatory lenders and fast-and-loose brokers to those who find themselves with a home on the bubble today.

It's a losing strategy.

Obama, on the other hand, must be extremely confident that this election will be decided on the economy, as he failed to challenge McCain on his belligerent stance toward the rest of the world.

He conceded that the "surge has worked" -- it has not. He tried to go toe to toe with John "Bomb, Bomb Iran" McCain on the evils of Iran. He called Venezuela a "rogue state." He engaged in a bit of fearmongering himself, saying that while he supports missile defense -- a boondoggle if ever there was one -- the greatest threat we face is from suitcase nukes.

As Obama agreed with so much of McCain's worldview, McCain's discomfort disappeared, and he landed several good knocks on Obama. He repeatedly called him "naive."

But, in the final analysis, a day after Washington Mutual went down in flames, I doubt that it'll be enough to get McCain out of the hole in which he finds himself.

Don Hazen:

If you were an Obama champion and wanted McCain to fall flat, you were disappointed. McCain is a tough, pugnacious debater, and he tried to control the talk time, going on and on. He's knowledgeable, and as we know, he whipped all of the Republicans during the primaries. But the big picture is that McCain probably had to do better since he is behind on the momentum and had to beat Obama with his supposed strength -- foreign affairs -- and there is a consensus among the commentators that he didn't do that.

If you reflect more on the meta or emotional level, McCain spent most of his time talking about the past and focused on Iraq -- making sure everyone knew that we had to win. That was the most important point he needed to make. But if this election is about change, then McCain reinforced his role as part of the problem. For most of the public, Iraq is past tense. Sixty percent think the economy is the key issue. And in terms of bread and butter, the numbers that people are likely to remember are not the $18 billion earmarks discussion, but rather the fact that 95 percent of the population will get a tax cut with Obama -- everyone who makes under $250,000. Meanwhile, the figure associated with McCain is likely to be $300 billion in tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy, while we have a huge deficit. Obama had to make kitchen table points stick, and he seemed to achieve that, repeating these points several times.

The pundits were also speculating that independent voters didn't like McCain's condescension and repeating that Obama "doesn't get it." Here McCain could be seen as the cranky older guy, sounding a little insecure, while Obama didn't rise to the bait. In fact, Obama agreed with McCain a number of times, suggesting that Obama was more capable of working across the aisle.


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See more stories tagged with: debate, barack obama, john mccain, sheryl crow, jane hamsher, taylor marsh, john nichols

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View:
Unfit for command
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 27, 2008 12:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Watching John McCain trying to hide his obvious contempt for Senator Obama during Friday night's debate -- such as calling Barack "dangerous" -- made me recall what former POW Phillip Butler wrote for the nonpartisan Web site, military.com.

Published on March 27, 2008, the article by Butler, an ex-Navy pilot and U.S. Naval Academy graduate who spent more than eight years in North Vietnam as a prisoner of war, explained why he would not support Senator McCain for the presidency.

Here is part of Butler's op-ed piece.

Most of us who survived that experience are now in our late 60’s
and 70’s. Sadly, we have died and are dying off at a greater rate
than our non-POW contemporaries. We experienced injuries and
malnutrition that are coming home to roost. So I believe John’s
age (71) and survival expectation are not good for being elected to
serve as our President for four or more years.

I can verify that John has an infamous reputation for being a hot
head. He has a quick and explosive temper that many have
experienced firsthand. Folks, quite honestly, that is not the finger
I want next to the red button.


I especially agreed with Butler after McCain called Obama dangerous. This from Mr. Bomb-bomb-bomb Iran -- an intemperate politician who picked a dumb shit hockey mom beauty queen for his running mate and heartbeat-away commander-in-chief.

Should McCain win in November, his victory will prove to the world what many foreigners suspect-- that the U.S. electorate has a collective IQ equal to Alaska's average wintertime temperature.

That horrifying outcome may well happen if voters judge Obama by his skin color and not what he says.

Old Man McCain and Stupid Sarah -- wrong for America, wrong for the world
For reasons why JM and SP should not be elected
in November, click on: Vote Against McCain
(HOTTEST anti-McCain/Palin site on the Web)

For more damning revelations about Songbird McCain,
click on: Vietnam Vets Against McCain.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Unfit for command Posted by: Rolomax
» Promises, promises! Posted by: Rapunzel
» Unfit for command Posted by: John Orford
» Empty barrell Posted by: Karl.Ben
» Drop-ship McCain's Posted by: weathered
Obamarama bye bye
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Sep 27, 2008 12:23 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To be required to grovel for fine points and "presidential" appearance avoids the knockout and leaves the decision to the ringside judges. In boxing, we've seen too many bad decisions steal victory from apparent winners and it is no different in politics. McCain should have been a dead man walking when he appeared in Oxford, MS; instead, he more than held his own and made stronger economic points that are known to be favored by the public. Bye bye Obamarama, it's time to share hankies with Gore and Kerry. The inability to clobber McCain over his Keating S&L bailout stench and his push to deregulate all financial institutions via Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999 blew any edge on economic issues that will decide this election. Iraq is out, nobody gives a shit anymore but the Paulson bailout is a hot button issue and Obamarama doesn't have a clue. And, on the subject of leadership, experience etc. the alltime gopher ball tossed to any power hitter is the Alaska hood ornament and Obamarama took a called 3rd strike. I am sickened, disgusted and frustrated too much by this damned fool....no, not McCain or Pailin but the latest Dipocrit pretender to the penal colony throne.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Obamarama bye bye Posted by: Rolomax
» RE: Obamarama bye bye? Posted by: raiders757
» RE: Obamarama bye bye? Posted by: left_libertarian
» RE: Obamarama bye bye? Posted by: Rolomax
» RE: Obamarama bye bye? Posted by: maestra
» RE: Obamarama bye bye? Posted by: clvngodess
» RE: Obamarama bye bye? Posted by: PandaBear
» Troll Posted by: LeaderofMen
» RE: Obamarama bye bye Posted by: EJLima
» You gest! RE: Obamarama bye bye Posted by: sallyride
» RE: Obamarama bye bye Posted by: Ahimsa
» RE: Obamarama bye bye Posted by: AnIndependentThinker
Obama scored...
Posted by: adp3d on Sep 27, 2008 3:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...more points on my card but it I thought the whole thing turned into talking points and so much stump from both. McCain got a point for mentioning Senator Kennedy right off the bat.
As for the "success" of the 2007 escalation, Obama needs to stress the failure of all but 3 of the 18 benchmarks as well as the other factors unrelated to the surge that reduced but by no means at all quelled the violence. He would do well to talk about the rise of American casualties during the surge. In other words he needs to take back his idea that the surge was a success and stress the fact that it was an unqualified failure.
Another thing Obama needs to talk about is McCains involvement with Charles Keating. I know it was already mentioned but if he wants to take votes from McCain this is a good way to do it.

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» RE: Obama scored... Posted by: gazooks
» RE: Obama scored... Posted by: djnoll
10 round decision..
Posted by: Karl.Ben on Sep 27, 2008 4:00 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Much of win or lose depends on the perspective of the viewer. From what I remember, the points that made an impact.. McCains "go it alone with the insurance co's" heath care plan. A deal breaker for me.. taxing the gov't health care assistance - not good - hits EVERYONE in the pocket. I'm surprised that Obama didn't jump on this with both feet!

As for Obama, seemed poised but didn't really say much we didn't now.. I saw no knock out punches but McCain did seem to control the discussion, Obama looked the bit of the junior senator. Obama agreed with McCain way too much He also doesn't do well without a teleprompter.

If you're "explaining", you're losing. 10-9 McCain! BUT - McCain has Palin and after her last interview, a big time liability. I think she will hand the election to Obama.

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» Obama Pounced Posted by: LeaderofMen
» RE: 10 round decision.. Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: 10 round decision..LOL Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: 10 round decision..LOL Posted by: Karl.Ben
Do you guys REALLY think that a Professor of Constitutional Law, for 12+ years, and a long running i
Posted by: Squarehead on Sep 27, 2008 4:08 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is up with these posters who have to declare their 'knowledge' of how inept/ incompetent/ corrupt/ stupid/ ALL of the candidates are?

Get your heads back to a happier place; as someone once said: "Free your mind, and your ass will follow"

Do you guys REALLY think that a Professor of Constitutional Law, for 12+ years, and a long running involvement in community activism, fits the profile of the first para?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Yup, I do Posted by: setterwoman
His OWN Face and Body language alone Defeated Mac
Posted by: Purple Girl on Sep 27, 2008 4:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oooh Baraack was so close to the Implosion of John McCain- One more poke, one more direct reality check, one more tidbit of REAL history and I was sure Mac would look like a clip from 'Scanners'
Shit the Pussy couldn't even look up and face his opponent, even looked once or twice like he was about to cry. Probably was since the FBI have begun investigating the Wall Street Bail out- Deja Vu all over again Johnny boy?
Who would want this tempermental vindictive coward on the other side of any significant International negotiations- Reason why Mac doesn't want to meet with Foreign leaders (even SPAIN-LOL)He's afraid he'll either break down and Cry or Break their nose- Neither is Presidential behavior.
They must Have jacked up his Aricept ( alzhiemers med) thoug he seemed a bit more Oriented than Ususal- although it's hard to tell the difference between him lying and just Deluded.
Who did he remind me of....the last paranoid president- Nixon. But then again not being able to go off scripted talking points is Classic Ronny. His Self congradulatory, back patting causing him to nearly dislocate his shoulder was eeriely similar to W's level of Arrogance. Of course we all know he's rolled over and taken up th eass to get to this point- so he's cheney's Bitch and Butt boy just like HW! Cheney's perfected Manchurain Candidate.
HEY JOHN IF YOU CAN'T EVEN LOOK ACROSS TO THE OTHER PODIUM- HOW CAN YOU EXPECT US TO BELEIVED YOU COULD WORK ACROSS THE AISLE?
that Debate was the epitome of John McCains Career- Lies, Confusion, vindictiveness and Temper tantrums.
How do you determine Who wins a debate- turn down the sound and watch their expressions and Body language- John would have lost even if he was debating a 5th grader. And his Face, lack of eye contact and posturing was an admission of a forfeit!

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» RE: loser McCain Posted by: Lauren
» RE: loser McCain Posted by: Blink
» RE: loser McCain Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: loser McCain Posted by: Blink
» RE: loser McCain Posted by: jwverez
» Rightwing troll. Posted by: jwverez
» Alternets Most Un-Wanted Posted by: BigElectricCat
Obama's "Sarah Palinesque" View
Posted by: americansheep on Sep 27, 2008 4:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am only going to address Obama here as he is the one who got my vote in the primary. He presented himself well, but he, like Sarah, showed an ignorance on foreign affairs. Despite the fact that Georgia attacked South Ossentia, Obama chose to espouse the lie that Russia was the agressor. He then restated his threat to invade sovereign Pakistan if need be to "kill" Osama (not to "capture" but to "kill"), he wants to endure more pain on the people of Iran with more sanctions, calling Iran, N. Korea and Venezuela "rogue nations", and ready to carry us into war with Afghanistan which will be more wasted bloodshed for all, not to mention the cost of a financially failing empire. The "lesser of two evils" candidate, Obama, the "change" candidate, is speaking "no change" and it is painful to picture myself rendering a vote for a man who has a 20th century mindset. I have inner "Jihad" over this catch 22 election decision.

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» RE: Obama's "Sarah Palinesque" View Posted by: bloominblacksheep
» RE: long-term cocaine effects Posted by: bloominblacksheep
PRESIDENT CLINTON SAYS DEMOCRATS TO BLAME FOR FANNIE MAE MESS
Posted by: GeraldD on Sep 27, 2008 4:30 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
President Bill Clinton told ABC News That the blame for the Fannie Mae Meltdown Lies squarely at the feet of a few DEMOCRATS who blocked efforts to regulate Fannie Mae. You have to admire his candor -
******************

See The Jim Angle Report on Fox

*******************

Watch The Clinton Interview On ABC News
*********************
-
Hear Barney Frank On Video Stating That There Is No Crisis At Fannie Mae -


I think there are 2 former CEOs of Fannie Mae, one former assistant CEO, at least Two United States Senators, and at least one member of the US House of Representatives who should GO TO JAIL for this! BRIBING Members of Congress To Hide Accounting Abuses And Loan Abuses Should Get Them Permanent Social Security.

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It's not a contest
Posted by: Hans B on Sep 27, 2008 4:33 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Debates are not primarily contests but opportunities to explain policy differences. Obama seemed to concentrate on presenting himself to voters who may not have seen him speak before, but who did receive plenty of emails charging that he is a closet Muslim etc. I don't know who "won" the debate but I think Obama did a good job in reassuring people.

McCain doubled down on the US vs THEM attitude, firmly giving Russia back its Empire of Evil status, misrepresenting Iran's policies, and generally creating an image of an adversarial (not to say warlike) future. That will be appreciated, too, in certain quarters, but in times of economic fear people may not want to see even more bogeymen under the bed.

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EJLima
Posted by: EJLima on Sep 27, 2008 4:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Take number seven:

I was inspired to send $100

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So he's a maverick, is he?
Posted by: Democritus on Sep 27, 2008 5:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
John McCain took great pride in saying he was a "maverick," and so was the woman he picked as his running mate. Obama should have picked up on that, but he didn't. Instead, he continued to pull his punches most of the night in his own gentlemanly way, missing opportunities to put the grizzled veteran down for the count.

Here's what I would have said to McCain--and I would have said it right at him, not channeling it through Jim Lehrer (who tried unsuccessfully all night to get both of them to talk to one another).

"John, you say that you and Governor Palin are mavericks. Just what do you mean by that? Strictly speaking, a maverick is an unbranded calf that has been separated from its mother. Clearly, you're not that sort of maverick, are you? So what you must mean is that you take an independent stand, apart from your associates. But John, you've been taking a stand with your associate, President George W. Bush in 91% of your votes. And recently, you've changed your mind on the other 9%, so that means you're now in 100% agreement with President Bush. Tell me how that translates into any sort of a "maverick." Tell me that Bush's branding iron hasn't seared your hide?"

If he had said that, they would still be counting over McCain's supine body.

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» RE: So he's a maverick, is he? Posted by: DEBKAMAINE
» RE: So he's a maverick, is he? Posted by: VZEQICVA
» His prison: Unlimited Power Posted by: Ripcord
» RE: His prison: Unlimited Power Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: So he's a maverick, is he? Posted by: thealltheone
» YESSS!! Posted by: Ahimsa
» RE: So he's a maverick, is he? Posted by: boing007
FMAinMass
Posted by: FMABBI on Sep 27, 2008 5:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama held his own and stood up to McCain. He won the debate on the economic issues. McCain needed to win BIG but didn't so all in all Obama could claim he won this debate.

However, I sure wish that Obama would speak more slowly and more forcefully! I think most Americans are upset right now about these last 8 years and the ruins we find ourselves in. Obama should articulate these sentiments with force and make it clear that REPUBLICANS brought us these problems!

Go Obama!

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» RE: FMAinMass Posted by: Ahimsa
McBush = Liar
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Sep 27, 2008 5:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
LOL, I like the way McBUsh came right out of the box LYING. Show me a timestamped case where he warned anyone years ago of an upcoming meltdown? LOL, there is no such evidence. Once agan, McBush LIES.

Jiff
Ultimate Anonymity

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REVEALED: MC CAIN'S A WAR-MONGER BUT - CNN ERRED
Posted by: sallyride on Sep 27, 2008 5:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This debate cinched it for me. How in blazes can McCain even consider positing war in our future? That man was outright frighening - who would trust him with a "red phone"?

He can't focus long enough to answer anything, which clearly indicates he's being programmed - lest we forget Bionic Reagan who's wife ran the country for at least 3 years. Does anyone want McCain's trophy running America? Or, worse perhaps, Palin?

No, this must stop soon - Obama has to learn to call the shots, and he should have stopped the debate until actual debating regulations were enforced - they were seriously ignored.

The moderator was a disappointment: did not call him on his total disregard for the questions presented.

Staging a debate without enforcing debating techniques is a serious lack of ethical conduct against the common good. Wake up, CNN!

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The Biden-Gidget Debate
Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 27, 2008 5:38 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Veep Debate. That's the one I'm waiting for! Won't that be a hoot? For great insight into the political significance (significant, that is, for the GOP) of Sarah Palin, check out Matt Taibbi's piece in the latest Rolling Stone. A great read and a hoot to boot!

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
Apocalipstick Now!

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» RE:I can't wait either... Posted by: thealltheone
» RE: I can't wait either... Posted by: 113121
» RE: I can't wait either... Posted by: boing007
» Gov. Palin will wipe the stage with Biden Posted by: salt-of-the-earth
BBC
Posted by: maestra on Sep 27, 2008 5:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For info, the BBC (not known for being right-wing) has reported McCain as coming out of the debates better than Obama. Sigh!

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» RE: BBC Posted by: bloominblacksheep
» RE: BBC Posted by: Lauren
» RE: BBC Posted by: Thucy
» RE: BBC Posted by: sallyride
Let’s See...
Posted by: The Old Hippie on Sep 27, 2008 5:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
 
The Independent Voters On FOX Said Obama Won - That’s It, He Won.
by This Old Hippie Because Sometimes They Simply Can’t Hide The Truth.

So Sayeth FOX - So Believeth the Majority of American Voters
You know... the ones that never come to our blogs, never read us, nor watch us, nor listen to us.  And FOX could not hide, or misconstrue, their independent voters’ reactions to this first debate.  It doesn’t matter what any of the ‘experts,’ or talking-heads, liberal or conservative, say about it - FOX was forced to openly admit that - - -

“Obama won the debate.”  Therefore the FOX-Sheeple believe it, and they are, currently, sadly, insanely, unfathomably, and in unreal reality... the majority of the voters in this nation.

So - There may be some hope yet?

“It really is true what they say...
Those who do not study the past, get an exciting opportunity to repeat it.”

You have got to watch this, because Jon & Staff really did great on this one.  Enjoy...
 

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» What makes you think Fox is for McCain? Posted by: salt-of-the-earth
Who won the deabte?
Posted by: PJAW on Sep 27, 2008 5:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What constitutes "winning"? Much like what constitutes "winning" in Iraq, it really doesn't mean jack shit. McCain's policies and ideologies will fail, just as they have been failing since Reagan's first term in office. It's the same old "trickle down" crap that's been destroying our economy and the same tough guy foreign policy that has made us a pariah around the world and brought all of us except the war contractors and oil speculators to the brink of bankruptcy.

People need to get past this bullshit idea that a performance at a debate bears any relevance to what we need in this country or how a particular individual will perform as President. But..., if that's a criterion you choose to employ, I damned sure prefer someone who behaves respectfully toward an adversary and speaks with intelligence and honesty. McCain is a huge loser in that regard.

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» RE: Who won the deabte? Posted by: Romans1
» RE: Who won the deabte? Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Who won the deabte? Posted by: Lauren
McCain KNEW the name on his bracelet
Posted by: Romans1 on Sep 27, 2008 5:49 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama had to peek at his.

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