COMMENTS: 84
Fixing Wall Street Won't Fix Our Economy
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The sub-prime crisis is the result of good people getting bad loans. Loans that triple or quadruple in interest rates, riddled with small print, are unbearable by most homeowners. But they are particularly unsustainable for low-income families working two or three jobs to make ends meet. Still, lenders scammed hardworking families with the promise of owning homes they really couldn't afford. And then greedy Wall Street managers, looking for a new way to squeeze a buck from an already bursting-at-the-seams economy, bundled up these bad loans into worse securities, sold them off, and tried to gain a profit as our national economy lost its shirt. Â
We could have averted the current financial crisis by creating affordable housing and good jobs, strengthening public education and providing health care and child care for all families, to help hardworking Americans thrive in the middle class instead of being pushed into poverty. We could have averted this crisis if we really cared about all families owning their own homes and created nationwide programs including affordable loans. (Even subsidized loans in the first place would have cost taxpayers less than what we're now spending bailing out Wall Street.) We could have averted this crisis if we put the needs of the majority of American families ahead of the needs of a small minority of greedy investors. Â
Now, 8,000 American families a day face foreclosure. But instead of prioritizing poor and even middle class families who are increasingly struggling, our government is spending billions and billions to bail out the Wall Street firms that created this crisis. Instead, we should be spending our taxpayer money to help the families who were taken advantage of in the "anything goes" unregulated financial system that years of misguided never-really-did-trickle-down economic policy created. These families need the government to help re-adjust their mortgages and cover bridge payments to avoid foreclosure. Â
The fundamentals of our economy are not sound. Real wages for the majority of American families have been declining while CEO salaries are at an all-time high. Health care costs and college tuition are crippling more and more families. The middle class is rapidly disappearing, and more and more of us find ourselves struggling while the gap between the rich and poor grows. Â
Instead of allowing Wall Street to profit off of poverty, we should fix our economy once and for all, to work better for all of us. We need universal health care, including a government-funded insurance option, to help families get out from under mounting health care debt. We need policies that reign in scam lending, from housing to the credit card industry. We need a nationwide living wage and a massive public jobs program, to address underemployment in our unstable economy while helping build essential shared infrastructure like public transportation and schools. We need new trade and immigration policies that work for working people on both sides to the border. And we need new corporate rules of the game that make big business accountable to communities and workers, not just greedy investors. Â
Wall Street and conservative economists have insisted that, in our laissez faire system, everyone is on their own. The poor were left on their own, to fend for themselves against twisted economic structures backed by the biggest institutions on Wall Street. Washington never left Wall Street on its own, and as Wall Street's scam deflates, Washington is coming to the rescue. But shoring up Wall Street won't make our economy work. We need to ensure that a greedy few can't exploit those who are struggling. Without poor people, this crisis would have never happened. If we prioritize ending poverty, and preventing more and more Americans from slipping into poverty, we can be sure it won't happen again. Â
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Posted by: mmckinl on Sep 19, 2008 12:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And we can afford all of this. How ? By taking back our Constitutional right to print our own money with no interest.
Right now everything we spend has to be borrowed from the privately owned Federal Reserve ! Why ? Why are we borrowing and paying interest on our own birthright, the creation of money in the public interest ?
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» Wall Street's gift to America
Posted by: weathered
» RE: Wall Street's gift to America
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: cbishopp on Sep 19, 2008 1:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One possible thing that could repair some of these problems is basic currency reform where the government prints money, debt free, and attaches it's value to goods and services backed by the full faith and credit of the government. Eliminate the debt and make the banks work for the government. People forget that money is just a tool to ease trade and services, intrinsically it has no value. There is no precious metal backing your paper money, it's just ink.
Rebuilding America's clean farm culture would help as well. How many farms could be built on the combined acreage of McDonalds restaurants throughout the United States? If this fertile country is not producing healthy sustainable food it must be mismanagement. Study how the small farm culture has been dismantled over the past 40 years. You will be amazed at the short sightedness of our government.
Revamping energy production is often discussed but those who control energy now have no intention of allowing cheap free energy.
They worked hard making it impossible for people to survive without it. There is technology out there, it can be done.
THROW OUT THE MONEY CHANGERS AND THE MIDDLE MEN, they make profit from your pain, from your want, from the basic elements of survival to which we are all entitled.
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Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 19, 2008 2:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The big congress giveaway.
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: helenahanbasquet on Sep 19, 2008 3:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Does anybody know
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» RE: Does anybody know
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Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Sep 19, 2008 4:15 AM
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Washington's solution, after crapping all over the market, is to reward the flies and maggots. This is what you get for being ignorant and supporting Obama, McCain, and Pelosi.
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Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 19, 2008 4:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
votenader.org !
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» He needs support from Congress or he's toast.
Posted by: GrantBurkeVT
» RE: He needs support from Congress or he's toast. Exactly right. He not only cannot be elected,
Posted by: Beck
» Name a SINGLE thing Nader has done for America since 2000!
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin
» RE: Name a SINGLE thing Nader has done for America since 2000!
Posted by: left_libertarian
» First, I'm an independent. Second, I'm still waiting for a Nadera accomplishment.
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin
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Posted by: solrev on Sep 19, 2008 5:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Catch 22 how do you do
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Snatch 22 how do you do
Posted by: ranchero42
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Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Sep 19, 2008 6:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» True that. Obama will be able to change the direction even if he faces very hostile opposition
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» RE: Who cares
Posted by: beautifulady2003
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Sep 19, 2008 6:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just as struggling families are left on their own, in this pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstrap mentality, we need to let Wall Street handle themselves! What needs to happen is rules and regulations need to be re-enacted because these people will never regulate themselves! And if you believe that they will, I've got a bridge to sell you!
The lessons that Americans need to learn are: (1)stop being diverted by those "culture" issues,(2)just like children need rules and boundaries - the financial system in this country definitely needs them, (3) rugged individualism is not a plan, (4) trickle down economics are not good for America!
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» RE: ight on.......
Posted by: JSquercia
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Posted by: garcam123 on Sep 19, 2008 7:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They have all participated in this and deserve to be removed, tried and turned out on the street so they can learn what it's like to be POOR in America. Americans need to bve in the streets demanding recourse. Why give Wall St. a trillion dollars? Why not forgive all Americans their morgetages? Put the wealth into the hands of Americans. Forgive all credit card debt. Forgive all tax debt. Allow Americans to start with a clean slate.
Let the FAT CATS go and try and live on $ 8.00 a hour! Oh, yes, I forgot...They want to borrow another 150 Million dollars from China and give us another "economic stimulus". Her you go America, a few crumbs to keep you placated. Be sure and run down to Wal-Mart and spend you money and send it right back to China. They need the stimulus! Just like last time.
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Posted by: FoonTheElder on Sep 19, 2008 7:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Instead of putting money in the hands of average Americans who can restore the economy, trillions are being spent on bailing out bankrupt fraudulent investment schemes.
The politicians from both parties still don't get it. It's time to make a break from the old mess and start over. Let the free marketers and deregulators take their lumps. Let the private market unwind their own abuses instead of having taxpayers pay for it. If the private market is unable to move forward with programs that are needed, then the government should start their own, whether that is a Fannie Mae clone or adequate banking options.
There is no sense on wasting tax money trying to fix the past. It's long past time to end socialism for the big corporations and top 2% and cold hard capitalism for everyone else.
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Posted by: richholland on Sep 19, 2008 7:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are surprised about masochisme to have no health care, low minimum wages.
We are surprised about politicans trying to make a third world war by giving sick Saakesviili 1.....000. dollar and rockets and demanding NATO to declare hostilities to Russia.
We know mr. Roosevelt tried to save Capitalisme
and the Glass/Steagal laws proved the madness of uncontrolled capitalisme.
On the moment you stop the wars and use the money for the poor it is a success.
But still too many americans donot see the madness of i.e. britney spears and michael jackson having millions and hardworking people hardly can survive.
Once in Europe the Democrats said the minimum wages of i.e 1000 means a maximum nett income of 5000 for the rich.
What can you do with 1000.000 dollar if your
neighbour is hungry. The rich are sick.
Greenwashing with 100.000 dollar a year is bullshit.
Even in alternet.org. some people donot realise the perversion.
And in South america and northern asia and in europe people ask more and more we want family values and take care of each others, we donot want the Rich more rich.
Privatisation of public services didnt make prizes lower.
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Posted by: popeurbanxxiii on Sep 19, 2008 7:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When they wrote the Constitution, they set a time limit for the duration of a corporate charter. (I may be wrong here, but I seem to remember the duration was 50 years.) The corporation had to prove to the satisfaction of the Congress that they were operating "in the public interest" in order to get their charter renewed.
Now we have corporate charters "in perpetuity" -- thanks to Delaware, who offered this awful "innovation". And of course, we had that fortuitous (for the corporations) clerical error in the case of Union Pacific vs Santa Clara that gave corporations the status of "personhood" (which the courts and the Congress have let stand when they knew it was a clerical error!!)
Now we have corporations that live forever, having all the priveleges of "personhood", without the concominant responsibilities, running roughshod over We The People. We have a euphemistically named Federal Reserve that is itself a private, for profit corporation. Who do you think they are going to favor in this current economic climate?
We won't get out from under the yoke until we reform the laws regarding corporate charters, and revoking this silly notion that corporations are "persons" under the law. Corporations exist solely to make a profit. They don't care about We The People, the environment, our national debt, or anything other than making a profit. Taking our tax dollars -- and our children's future -- to bail out the follies of these non-persons is just not right! Do something for the real people who are impacted, but let the carcasses of these bankrupt corporations be picked over by the vultures.
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» RE: Our Founding Fathers...
Posted by: EncinoM
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Posted by: using on Sep 19, 2008 7:37 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can investors get greedy? Yes. Were the Enron workers at fault...Yes...and do you know how?......they were employed ..and the top honchos of their companies were cheating big time..and they must have known..they must have had a inkling that the poor widows in California amongst others were being cheated..but hey...they had their jobs to keep and once they made that decision how far was that from trying to get a little of trickle down themselves by investing in a company they might have heard was no longer well rated.
But where they the main culprits...NO.
THE REAL CULPRITS....WELL....we did not get inside the court room to find out how wide spread the theivery really was, now did we..but hey, Lay spent a little time in jail...till they carried him out.
We need to to strenghten not just our economy but our code of ethics and what we value. We need to reward healthy businesses that value workers of all levels that support a sustainable code of ethics and value system..and the first ones to reign in and overhaul....are our leaders....the powerful ones...pointing the direction and leading the pack.
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Posted by: christianslayer1955 on Sep 19, 2008 7:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: we deserve all we have coming..
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: NthnBrazil on Sep 19, 2008 7:58 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While these firms require regulation and oversight to make them work and controls on CEO salaries are a good idea, the failure of these companies will have a much deeper effect due to the loss of upper-middle class jobs which drive this economy.
While you may despise the elites at the top of these companies, they employ tens of thousands of people making $100K-$200K a year. We allow these jobs to be lost at the peril of the rest of the national economy.
For better or worse we are in a service driven economy. If the Wall St middle manager making $150K a year gets fired, he's not eating at restaurants, shopping at the mall, getting his house renovated, flying down to FL for a beach vacation etc etc. And that sends shockwaves through every other sector. What industry other than financial services supports these high paying jobs anymore? Even the best IT jobs are working for Financial Services companies.
So as I said, regulation and control is good. Allowing them to fail outright is dangerous because you can do a lot of these functions just easily in other parts of the world and if it gets cheaper to run Investment Banks outside the country, that is where they will go.
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» Under McCain's tax plan, the top 2% of Americans will get back $32,000, the bottom 20% $21. How... .
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» Its not fair
Posted by: NthnBrazil
» RE: Its not fair
Posted by: atlee
» What's the point of your response?
Posted by: NthnBrazil
» RE: What's the point of your response?
Posted by: atlee
» Seems you've managed to answer my question by inference
Posted by: NthnBrazil
» RE: Seems you've managed to answer my question by inference
Posted by: atlee
» Content-free assertions
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» RE: Content-free assertions
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» Pure Comedy
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» RE: Pure Comedy
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» Dodge, bob & weave
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» RE: Content-free assertions
Posted by: Malamute
» RE: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. . . .
Posted by: Spot
» Trickle Down as a dirty word
Posted by: NthnBrazil
» RE: Trickle Down as a dirty word
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Trickle Down as a dirty word
Posted by: EncinoM
» Not pissed off, but concerned with logical fallacy
Posted by: NthnBrazil
» seems they got a pretty good deal
Posted by: zooeyhall
» not in the NY Metro
Posted by: NthnBrazil
» RE: not in the NY Metro
Posted by: Lauren
» Actually, its relevant because we're talking about people losing NY Metro jobs
Posted by: NthnBrazil
» RE: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. . . .
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. . . .
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Throw the baby out with the bathwater. . . .
Posted by: left_libertarian
» RE: Throw the baby out with the bathwater. . . .
Posted by: EncinoM
» Who is Wall St?
Posted by: NthnBrazil
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Posted by: sallyride on Sep 19, 2008 9:00 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, what do they do? All of them! "The White House, and far right in the Senate and the House???? They designed this great railroad to get McBlame into office so it will "look like" the REPUBLICANS saved the world finance market, when in fact, they created the crash for their own glory. Yes, the Pentagon is involved, and YES, the world's top billionaires (save one) are involved. Yes, they think this will "level things out..." but NO, it won't.
This game collapsing the speculative investments market is only to wipe out our enormous NATIONAL DEBT, which "The Hedge" permitted, indeed created, like a run-away-freight train ... A 7-year old with a tantrum to "get the bad guys."
Sure, the foreign markets are in on this - hell's bells their own financial statememnts can't be trusted, much lless relied upon enough to consider safe investments in those countries. Our collaboratives, the UK, Spain, Taiwan, Germany, the Pacific Rim (Aus and NZ)and France are the only nations with credible finance reporing.This crash benefits everyone except Americans.
This is like medical malpractice cases in which other "specialities" cover for the offenders, knowing full well, "but for the grace of God go I ..."
Americans--send a clear message to both Parties - NO MORE PARTIES - NO MORE FRAUD...THE GAME'S OVER! We are paying you to act, ethically, morally, honestly, 24/7 while in Office - if you do not protect America, you PAY-not us!
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» RE: THE TRUTH ABOUT THE Democrats
Posted by: left_libertarian
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Posted by: ciccio on Sep 19, 2008 10:30 AM
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» RE: Where did that trillion $ write-down go?
Posted by: EncinoM
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Posted by: ReallyBearish on Sep 19, 2008 10:41 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The conglomerate financial firms are permitted at this point to use private individual brokerage account funds to relieve their own liquidity pressures. This represents unauthorized loans of your stock account assets. So next, if the conglomerate fails, your stock account is part of the bankruptcy process. Finally the corrupt USGovt and corrupt Wall Street houses are desperate enough to put into policy, stated by the US Federal Reserve, outlining the authorized raid of your money."
Isn't that special!!
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Posted by: cyr3n on Sep 19, 2008 11:46 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I dont understand why we can't have capitalism and also cover the basic means for certain members of society who are altruistic and/or need assitance. But much like a grown child who's living in your basement beyond 30 yrs of age, there should be certain milestones where benefits are weaned off. Not to the point where someone is punished for being productive (like current welfare systems).
People forget we're all in the business of serving other people. Unfortunately "good will" is never rewarded. We need something from the ground up that encourages healthy community involvement and allows altruistic people who do their jobs well (ie: artists, teachers, EMS, firemen) to have their bases covered. I dont think $$ is the way to go. There are so many people in a cashless economy as-is that the system is obviously broken.
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» RE: We need to start our own system altogether
Posted by: halg
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Posted by: devnickle on Sep 19, 2008 12:28 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Two Words........
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» RE: Two Words........
Posted by: left_libertarian
» Faulty Argument there I think
Posted by: halg
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Posted by: Dboy on Sep 19, 2008 5:19 PM
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An 'Imperialism of Capital'. There's some cold truth right there. And more, straight from the bankers mouth: " When, through a process of law, the common people lose their homes they will become more docile and more easily governed". But of course before you can accomplish that mission, you must entice people INTO that debt in the first place. That's what it's all about. They do it with mortgages, they do it with "jobs", they even do it with food. And after many generations of screwing the people...the people are now forced to eat the banker's bad debt while they slither away into the darkness.
dboy
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» RE: The ugly truth
Posted by: richholland
» RE: The ugly truth
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: InsertNameHere on Sep 19, 2008 9:20 PM
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Posted by: blogoffanddie on Sep 20, 2008 9:41 AM
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Thank God we still have socialism for the rich. How would they make the payments on their multi-million dollar mansions and Mercedes’ without a little helping hand from Joe Middle Class American Taxpayer. Like you, I often worry for the rich too.
The American Dream is failing because the American Dream has become the world's nightmare.
http://blogoffanddie.wordpress.com
So long Dubya, we'll always have debt and Guantanamo
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Posted by: billwald on Sep 20, 2008 11:00 AM
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Posted by: kaypro4 on Sep 20, 2008 11:14 AM
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Posted by: CA NOW on Sep 24, 2008 11:08 PM
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Posted by: mmckinl on Sep 19, 2008 12:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And we can afford all of this. How ? By taking back our Constitutional right to print our own money with no interest.
Right now everything we spend has to be borrowed from the privately owned Federal Reserve ! Why ? Why are we borrowing and paying interest on our own birthright, the creation of money in the public interest ?
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» Wall Street's gift to America
Posted by: weathered
» RE: Wall Street's gift to America
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: cbishopp on Sep 19, 2008 1:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One possible thing that could repair some of these problems is basic currency reform where the government prints money, debt free, and attaches it's value to goods and services backed by the full faith and credit of the government. Eliminate the debt and make the banks work for the government. People forget that money is just a tool to ease trade and services, intrinsically it has no value. There is no precious metal backing your paper money, it's just ink.
Rebuilding America's clean farm culture would help as well. How many farms could be built on the combined acreage of McDonalds restaurants throughout the United States? If this fertile country is not producing healthy sustainable food it must be mismanagement. Study how the small farm culture has been dismantled over the past 40 years. You will be amazed at the short sightedness of our government.
Revamping energy production is often discussed but those who control energy now have no intention of allowing cheap free energy.
They worked hard making it impossible for people to survive without it. There is technology out there, it can be done.
THROW OUT THE MONEY CHANGERS AND THE MIDDLE MEN, they make profit from your pain, from your want, from the basic elements of survival to which we are all entitled.
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Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 19, 2008 2:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The big congress giveaway.
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: helenahanbasquet on Sep 19, 2008 3:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Does anybody know
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» RE: Does anybody know
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» RE: Does anybody know
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Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Sep 19, 2008 4:15 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Washington's solution, after crapping all over the market, is to reward the flies and maggots. This is what you get for being ignorant and supporting Obama, McCain, and Pelosi.
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Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 19, 2008 4:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
votenader.org !
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» He needs support from Congress or he's toast.
Posted by: GrantBurkeVT
» RE: He needs support from Congress or he's toast. Exactly right. He not only cannot be elected,
Posted by: Beck
» Name a SINGLE thing Nader has done for America since 2000!
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin
» RE: Name a SINGLE thing Nader has done for America since 2000!
Posted by: left_libertarian
» First, I'm an independent. Second, I'm still waiting for a Nadera accomplishment.
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin
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Posted by: solrev on Sep 19, 2008 5:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Catch 22 how do you do
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» RE: Snatch 22 how do you do
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Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Sep 19, 2008 6:28 AM
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» True that. Obama will be able to change the direction even if he faces very hostile opposition
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» RE: Who cares
Posted by: beautifulady2003
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Sep 19, 2008 6:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just as struggling families are left on their own, in this pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstrap mentality, we need to let Wall Street handle themselves! What needs to happen is rules and regulations need to be re-enacted because these people will never regulate themselves! And if you believe that they will, I've got a bridge to sell you!
The lessons that Americans need to learn are: (1)stop being diverted by those "culture" issues,(2)just like children need rules and boundaries - the financial system in this country definitely needs them, (3) rugged individualism is not a plan, (4) trickle down economics are not good for America!
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» RE: ight on.......
Posted by: JSquercia
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Posted by: garcam123 on Sep 19, 2008 7:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They have all participated in this and deserve to be removed, tried and turned out on the street so they can learn what it's like to be POOR in America. Americans need to bve in the streets demanding recourse. Why give Wall St. a trillion dollars? Why not forgive all Americans their morgetages? Put the wealth into the hands of Americans. Forgive all credit card debt. Forgive all tax debt. Allow Americans to start with a clean slate.
Let the FAT CATS go and try and live on $ 8.00 a hour! Oh, yes, I forgot...They want to borrow another 150 Million dollars from China and give us another "economic stimulus". Her you go America, a few crumbs to keep you placated. Be sure and run down to Wal-Mart and spend you money and send it right back to China. They need the stimulus! Just like last time.
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Posted by: FoonTheElder on Sep 19, 2008 7:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Instead of putting money in the hands of average Americans who can restore the economy, trillions are being spent on bailing out bankrupt fraudulent investment schemes.
The politicians from both parties still don't get it. It's time to make a break from the old mess and start over. Let the free marketers and deregulators take their lumps. Let the private market unwind their own abuses instead of having taxpayers pay for it. If the private market is unable to move forward with programs that are needed, then the government should start their own, whether that is a Fannie Mae clone or adequate banking options.
There is no sense on wasting tax money trying to fix the past. It's long past time to end socialism for the big corporations and top 2% and cold hard capitalism for everyone else.
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Posted by: richholland on Sep 19, 2008 7:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are surprised about masochisme to have no health care, low minimum wages.
We are surprised about politicans trying to make a third world war by giving sick Saakesviili 1.....000. dollar and rockets and demanding NATO to declare hostilities to Russia.
We know mr. Roosevelt tried to save Capitalisme
and the Glass/Steagal laws proved the madness of uncontrolled capitalisme.
On the moment you stop the wars and use the money for the poor it is a success.
But still too many americans donot see the madness of i.e. britney spears and michael jackson having millions and hardworking people hardly can survive.
Once in Europe the Democrats said the minimum wages of i.e 1000 means a maximum nett income of 5000 for the rich.
What can you do with 1000.000 dollar if your
neighbour is hungry. The rich are sick.
Greenwashing with 100.000 dollar a year is bullshit.
Even in alternet.org. some people donot realise the perversion.
And in South america and northern asia and in europe people ask more and more we want family values and take care of each others, we donot want the Rich more rich.
Privatisation of public services didnt make prizes lower.
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Posted by: popeurbanxxiii on Sep 19, 2008 7:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When they wrote the Constitution, they set a time limit for the duration of a corporate charter. (I may be wrong here, but I seem to remember the duration was 50 years.) The corporation had to prove to the satisfaction of the Congress that they were operating "in the public interest" in order to get their charter renewed.
Now we have corporate charters "in perpetuity" -- thanks to Delaware, who offered this awful "innovation". And of course, we had that fortuitous (for the corporations) clerical error in the case of Union Pacific vs Santa Clara that gave corporations the status of "personhood" (which the courts and the Congress have let stand when they knew it was a clerical error!!)
Now we have corporations that live forever, having all the priveleges of "personhood", without the concominant responsibilities, running roughshod over We The People. We have a euphemistically named Federal Reserve that is itself a private, for profit corporation. Who do you think they are going to favor in this current economic climate?
We won't get out from under the yoke until we reform the laws regarding corporate charters, and revoking this silly notion that corporations are "persons" under the law. Corporations exist solely to make a profit. They don't care about We The People, the environment, our national debt, or anything other than making a profit. Taking our tax dollars -- and our children's future -- to bail out the follies of these non-persons is just not right! Do something for the real people who are impacted, but let the carcasses of these bankrupt corporations be picked over by the vultures.
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» RE: Our Founding Fathers...
Posted by: EncinoM
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Posted by: using on Sep 19, 2008 7:37 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can investors get greedy? Yes. Were the Enron workers at fault...Yes...and do you know how?......they were employed ..and the top honchos of their companies were cheating big time..and they must have known..they must have had a inkling that the poor widows in California amongst others were being cheated..but hey...they had their jobs to keep and once they made that decision how far was that from trying to get a little of trickle down themselves by investing in a company they might have heard was no longer well rated.
But where they the main culprits...NO.
THE REAL CULPRITS....WELL....we did not get inside the court room to find out how wide spread the theivery really was, now did we..but hey, Lay spent a little time in jail...till they carried him out.
We need to to strenghten not just our economy but our code of ethics and what we value. We need to reward healthy businesses that value workers of all levels that support a sustainable code of ethics and value system..and the first ones to reign in and overhaul....are our leaders....the powerful ones...pointing the direction and leading the pack.
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Posted by: christianslayer1955 on Sep 19, 2008 7:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: we deserve all we have coming..
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: NthnBrazil on Sep 19, 2008 7:58 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While these firms require regulation and oversight to make them work and controls on CEO salaries are a good idea, the failure of these companies will have a much deeper effect due to the loss of upper-middle class jobs which drive this economy.
While you may despise the elites at the top of these companies, they employ tens of thousands of people making $100K-$200K a year. We allow these jobs to be lost at the peril of the rest of the national economy.
For better or worse we are in a service driven economy. If the Wall St middle manager making $150K a year gets fired, he's not eating at restaurants, shopping at the mall, getting his house renovated, flying down to FL for a beach vacation etc etc. And that sends shockwaves through every other sector. What industry other than financial services supports these high paying jobs anymore? Even the best IT jobs are working for Financial Services companies.
So as I said, regulation and control is good. Allowing them to fail outright is dangerous because you can do a lot of these functions just easily in other parts of the world and if it gets cheaper to run Investment Banks outside the country, that is where they will go.
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» Under McCain's tax plan, the top 2% of Americans will get back $32,000, the bottom 20% $21. How... .
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin
» Its not fair
Posted by: NthnBrazil
» RE: Its not fair
Posted by: atlee
» What's the point of your response?
Posted by: NthnBrazil
» RE: What's the point of your response?
Posted by: atlee
» Seems you've managed to answer my question by inference
Posted by: NthnBrazil
» RE: Seems you've managed to answer my question by inference
Posted by: atlee
» Content-free assertions
Posted by: NthnBrazil
» RE: Content-free assertions
Posted by: atlee
» Pure Comedy
Posted by: NthnBrazil
» RE: Pure Comedy
Posted by: atlee
» Dodge, bob & weave
Posted by: NthnBrazil
» RE: Content-free assertions
Posted by: Malamute
» RE: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. . . .
Posted by: Spot
» Trickle Down as a dirty word
Posted by: NthnBrazil
» RE: Trickle Down as a dirty word
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Trickle Down as a dirty word
Posted by: EncinoM
» Not pissed off, but concerned with logical fallacy
Posted by: NthnBrazil
» seems they got a pretty good deal
Posted by: zooeyhall
» not in the NY Metro
Posted by: NthnBrazil
» RE: not in the NY Metro
Posted by: Lauren
» Actually, its relevant because we're talking about people losing NY Metro jobs
Posted by: NthnBrazil
» RE: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. . . .
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. . . .
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Throw the baby out with the bathwater. . . .
Posted by: left_libertarian
» RE: Throw the baby out with the bathwater. . . .
Posted by: EncinoM
» Who is Wall St?
Posted by: NthnBrazil
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Posted by: sallyride on Sep 19, 2008 9:00 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, what do they do? All of them! "The White House, and far right in the Senate and the House???? They designed this great railroad to get McBlame into office so it will "look like" the REPUBLICANS saved the world finance market, when in fact, they created the crash for their own glory. Yes, the Pentagon is involved, and YES, the world's top billionaires (save one) are involved. Yes, they think this will "level things out..." but NO, it won't.
This game collapsing the speculative investments market is only to wipe out our enormous NATIONAL DEBT, which "The Hedge" permitted, indeed created, like a run-away-freight train ... A 7-year old with a tantrum to "get the bad guys."
Sure, the foreign markets are in on this - hell's bells their own financial statememnts can't be trusted, much lless relied upon enough to consider safe investments in those countries. Our collaboratives, the UK, Spain, Taiwan, Germany, the Pacific Rim (Aus and NZ)and France are the only nations with credible finance reporing.This crash benefits everyone except Americans.
This is like medical malpractice cases in which other "specialities" cover for the offenders, knowing full well, "but for the grace of God go I ..."
Americans--send a clear message to both Parties - NO MORE PARTIES - NO MORE FRAUD...THE GAME'S OVER! We are paying you to act, ethically, morally, honestly, 24/7 while in Office - if you do not protect America, you PAY-not us!
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» RE: THE TRUTH ABOUT THE Democrats
Posted by: left_libertarian
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Posted by: ciccio on Sep 19, 2008 10:30 AM
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» RE: Where did that trillion $ write-down go?
Posted by: EncinoM
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Posted by: ReallyBearish on Sep 19, 2008 10:41 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The conglomerate financial firms are permitted at this point to use private individual brokerage account funds to relieve their own liquidity pressures. This represents unauthorized loans of your stock account assets. So next, if the conglomerate fails, your stock account is part of the bankruptcy process. Finally the corrupt USGovt and corrupt Wall Street houses are desperate enough to put into policy, stated by the US Federal Reserve, outlining the authorized raid of your money."
Isn't that special!!
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Posted by: cyr3n on Sep 19, 2008 11:46 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I dont understand why we can't have capitalism and also cover the basic means for certain members of society who are altruistic and/or need assitance. But much like a grown child who's living in your basement beyond 30 yrs of age, there should be certain milestones where benefits are weaned off. Not to the point where someone is punished for being productive (like current welfare systems).
People forget we're all in the business of serving other people. Unfortunately "good will" is never rewarded. We need something from the ground up that encourages healthy community involvement and allows altruistic people who do their jobs well (ie: artists, teachers, EMS, firemen) to have their bases covered. I dont think $$ is the way to go. There are so many people in a cashless economy as-is that the system is obviously broken.
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» RE: We need to start our own system altogether
Posted by: halg
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Posted by: devnickle on Sep 19, 2008 12:28 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Two Words........
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Two Words........
Posted by: left_libertarian
» Faulty Argument there I think
Posted by: halg
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Posted by: Dboy on Sep 19, 2008 5:19 PM
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An 'Imperialism of Capital'. There's some cold truth right there. And more, straight from the bankers mouth: " When, through a process of law, the common people lose their homes they will become more docile and more easily governed". But of course before you can accomplish that mission, you must entice people INTO that debt in the first place. That's what it's all about. They do it with mortgages, they do it with "jobs", they even do it with food. And after many generations of screwing the people...the people are now forced to eat the banker's bad debt while they slither away into the darkness.
dboy
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» RE: The ugly truth
Posted by: richholland
» RE: The ugly truth
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: InsertNameHere on Sep 19, 2008 9:20 PM
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Posted by: blogoffanddie on Sep 20, 2008 9:41 AM
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Thank God we still have socialism for the rich. How would they make the payments on their multi-million dollar mansions and Mercedes’ without a little helping hand from Joe Middle Class American Taxpayer. Like you, I often worry for the rich too.
The American Dream is failing because the American Dream has become the world's nightmare.
http://blogoffanddie.wordpress.com
So long Dubya, we'll always have debt and Guantanamo
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Posted by: billwald on Sep 20, 2008 11:00 AM
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Posted by: kaypro4 on Sep 20, 2008 11:14 AM
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Posted by: CA NOW on Sep 24, 2008 11:08 PM
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Tax the Corporations and the Rich or Take Draconian Cuts -- the Decision Is Ours
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