COMMENTS: 183
Only a Roosevelt-Scale Counterrevolution Can Prevent Great Depression II
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Why regulate?
As we have seen ever since the sub-prime market blew up in the summer of 2007, government cannot stand by when a financial crash threatens to turn into a general depression -- even a government like the Bush administration that fervently believes in free markets. But if government must act to contain wider damage when large banks fail, then it is obliged to act to prevent damage from occurring in the first place. Otherwise, the result is what economists term "moral hazard"-- an invitation to take excessive risks.
Government, under Franklin Roosevelt, got serious about regulating financial markets after the first cycle of financial bubble and economic ruin in the 1920s. Then, as now, the abuses were complex in their detail but very simple in their essence. They included the sale of complex securities packaged in deceptive and misleading ways; far too much borrowing to finance speculative investments; and gross conflicts of interest on the part of insiders who stood to profit from flim-flams. When the speculative bubble burst in 1929, sellers overwhelmed buyers, many investors were wiped out, and the system of credit contracted, choking the rest of the economy.
In the 1930s, the Roosevelt administration acted to prevent a repetition of the ruinous 1920s. Commercial banks were separated from investment banks, so that bankers could not prosper by underwriting bogus securities and foisting them on retail customers. Leverage was limited in order to rein in speculation with borrowed money. Investment banks, stock exchanges, and companies that publicly traded stocks were required to disclose more information to investors. Pyramid schemes and conflicts of interest were limited. The system worked very nicely until the 1970s -- when financial innovators devised end-runs around the regulated system, and regulators stopped keeping up with them.
Seven Deadly Sins
Sin One: Allowing Mortgage Lending to Become a Casino. Until 1969, Fannie Mae was part of the government. Mortgage lenders were tightly regulated. Homeownership rates soared throughout the postwar era, from about 44 percent on the eve of World War II to 64 percent by the mid-1960s. Nobody in the mortgage business got filthy rich, and hardly anyone lost money. Fannie's job was to buy mortgages from banks and thrift institutions, to replenish their money to make mortgages, and along the way to set standards. Fannie financed its operations by selling bonds. In the late 1970s, private Wall Street firms started emulating Fannie. They packaged mortgages, and converted them into bonds. Over time, their standards deteriorated, because they could make more money creating riskier products. In order to avoid losing market share, Fannie emulated some of the same abuses. Government did not step in to regulate the affair -- which was a time bomb waiting for the creation of the sub-prime mortgage business.
Sin Two: Allowing Unregulated Bond Rating Agencies to Decide What was Safe. Sub-prime is only the best known of a widespread fad known as "securitization." The idea is to turn loans into bonds. Bonds are given ratings by private companies that have official government recognition, such as Moody's and Standard and Poors, but no government regulation. These rating agencies have become thoroughly corrupted by conflicts of interest. If you want to package and sell bonds backed by risky loans, you go to a bond-rating agency and pay it a hefty fee. In return, the agency helps you manipulate the bond so that it qualifies for a triple-A rating, even if the underlying loans include many that are high-risk. Without the collusion of the bond-rating agencies, sub-prime lending never would have gotten off the ground, because it would not have found a mass market. Had regulators looked inside this black box, they would have shut it down. They might have needed new legislation, but they never asked for it. And public-minded regulators might have done a lot under existing law, since banks (which are regulated) were heavily implicated in the financing of sub-prime.
Sin Three: Failing to Police Sub-prime. The core idea of bank regulation is that government inspectors periodically examine the quality of bank assets. If too large a portion of a bank's loan portfolio is behind in its interest payments, the bank is made to raise more capital as a cushion against losses. Problems are nipped in the bud. But complex securities require more sophisticated regulation than simple loans. Regulators basically waived the rule on adequate capital for the new wave of mortgage lenders who created sub-prime. Many mortgage companies were not banks. They made loans only to sell them off to the Wall Street sinners of Deadly Sin No. 1 (see above). So there was no loan portfolio to examine, and no real capital. The Democratic Congress anticipated this problem in 1994, when it passed the Homeownership Opportunity and Equity Protection Act. This prescient law required the Federal Reserve to regulate the loan-origination standards of mortgage companies that were not otherwise government-regulated. But Alan Greenspan, a free-market zealot, never implemented the law. And when Republicans took over Congress in 1995, they never called him on the carpet.
Sin Four: Failure to Stop Excess Leverage. The financial economy is crashing today because so much speculation was done with borrowed money. A typical leverage ratio of a hedge fund or private equity company is 30 to one. That means $30 of debt for $1 of actual capital. If you make one serious miscalculation, you are out of business. And in the case of sub-prime mortgage companies, the leverage ratio was infinite, because they had no capital. The game was entirely based on creating debt. As long as times were good, financial firms could keep borrowing to finance their deals. But once investors looked down, they panicked. Some parts of the system are unregulated, such as hedge funds and private-equity companies. But they all ultimately get a lot of their funding from banks. And regulators do retain the power to look closely at banks' books (see Sin No.3 above). Had they used that power to police the kind of highly risky stuff banks were underwriting, they could have shut it down.
Sin Five: Failure to Police Conflicts of Interest. Remember the accounting scandals of the 1990s? In those scandals, accounting firms were paid once to audit corporate books and then again to help clients cook the books and still pass muster with the audit. That was a sheer conflict of interest. Though accountants were (loosely) regulated, Congress did not crack down until cooked books caused the stock market to crash. A second conflict of interest was the corruption of stock analysts, who were telling customers to buy dubious stocks because their bosses were profiting from underwriting the same stocks. In the aftermath of the dot-com bust, Congress narrowly cracked down on these two abuses with the Sarbanes-Oxley Act but simply ignored others -- such as the role of bond-rating agencies and the habit of basing executive bonuses on stock prices that could easily be manipulated by the same executives.
Sin Six: Failing to Regulate Hedge Funds and Private Equity. When Roosevelt's New Deal acted to rein in the abuses in financial markets, it regulated the major players -- commercial banks, investment banks, stock brokers, holding companies, and stock exchanges. But two of the biggest purveyors of risk today -- hedge funds and private-equity firms -- simply did not exist. Today, private-equity firms and hedge funds do most of the things banks and investment banks do. They basically create credit by making markets in exotic securities. They buy and sell firms. They speculate in financial markets with borrowed money, taking much bigger risks than regulated banks. According to House Banking Committee Chair Barney Frank, more than half the credit created in recent years has been created by essentially unregulated institutions. The people in charge of the government -- conservative Republicans -- took the view that these new-wave financial players offered transactions between consenting adults who needed no special consumer protection. But they were oblivious to the risks to the larger system.
Sin Seven: Repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act. This action, in 1999, was one of two major cases when a cornerstone of New Deal regulation was explicitly repealed. (The other was the repeal of the Public Utility Holding Company Act, and if your utility rates are sky-high, you can thank Congress for that, too.) Glass-Steagall provided that if you wanted to speculate as an investment bank, good luck to you. But commercial banks were part of the banking system. They created credit. They were regulated, supervised, usually enjoyed FDIC insurance, and had access to advances from the Fed in emergencies. So commercial banks and investment banks were two different creatures that should stay out of each other's knitting.
But beginning in the 1980s, regulators who didn't believe in regulation either allowed explicit waivers of some aspects of Glass-Steagall or looked the other way as commercial banks and investment banks became more alike. By 1999, when Citigroup had jumped the gun and assembled a supermarket that included a commercial bank, investment bank, stock brokerage, and insurance company, Glass Steagall was so hollowed out that it was effectively dead. The coup de grace was its official repeal, in the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. That's Gramm as in former Sen. Phil Gramm, a deregulation zealot and top adviser to John McCain.
Three Basic Reforms
What all of these sins had in common was that they led financial markets to misprice assets. In plain English, that means buyers were purchasing securities based on bad information, often with borrowed money. When firms started losing money on sub-prime in mid-2007 and other owners decided it was time to get their money out, the whole miracle of leverage went into reverse. And it spilled over into other securities that had been mispriced thanks to all the conflicts of interest tolerated by regulators.
That's why, no matter how much taxpayer money the Federal Reserve and the Treasury keep pumping in, they can't turn dross back into gold. The next administration and the Congress need to return the financial economy to its historic task of supplying capital to the real economy -- of connecting investors to entrepreneurs -- and shut down the purely casino aspects of the system that have only enriched middlemen and passed along huge risks to everyone else.
Reform One: If it Quacks Like a Bank, Regulate it Like a Bank. Barack Obama said it well in his historic speech on the financial emergency last March 27 in New York. "We need to regulate financial institutions for what they do, not what they are." Increasingly, different kinds of financial firms do the same kinds of things, and they are all capable of infusing toxic products into the nation's financial bloodstream. That's why Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson has had to extend the government's financial safety net to all kinds of large financial firms like A.I.G. that have no technical right to the aid and no regulation to keep them from taking outlandish risks. Going forward, all financial firms that buy and sell products in money markets need the same regulation and examination. That will be the essence of the 2009 version of the Glass-Steagall Act.
Reform Two: Limit Leverage. At the very heart of the financial meltdown was extreme speculation with esoteric financial securities, using astronomical rates of leverage. Commercial banks are limited to something like 10 to one, or less, depending on their conditions. These leverage limits need to be extended to all financial players, as part of the same 2009 banking reform.
Reform Three: Police Conflicts of Interest. The conflicts of interest at the core of bond-raising agencies are only one of the conflicts that have been permitted to pervade financial markets. Bond-rating agencies should probably become public institutions. Other conflicts of interest should be made explicitly illegal. Yes, financial markets keep "innovating." But some innovations are good, and some are abusive subterfuges. And if regulators who actually believe in regulation are empowered to examine all financial institutions, they can issue cease-and-desist orders when they encounter dangerous conflicts.
We're talking about a Roosevelt-scale counterrevolution here. But nothing less will prevent the financial collapse from cascading into Great Depression II. And the public should never again forget that this needless collapse was brought to us by free-market extremists.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: mmckinl on Sep 18, 2008 12:33 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What we need is a truly public central bank that prints our money without debt. The treasury just prints it or credits to our accounts to do government business without borrowing it from the Fed. The country is essentially insolvent now, that is we can't pay, have no hope of paying our principle and interest payments.
How do we get out of a debt spiral by printing more money ? We can't. But the banks will never give up their money making monopoly through debt creation. They will crash the economy before they relinquish the biggest welfare program in history.
Sure we can't print too much, but historical models such as Franklin's Bank in Pennsylvania have shown it works and works well when properly managed.
debt free money
Why should the banks, who caused this fiasco, retain a monopoly on our Constitutional Right to create money ?
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» Why should the banks...
Posted by: The Old Hippie
» Yes, and monopoly is a game in which all of the other players are losers
Posted by: greentime
» RE: The Horse is Out of the Barn ...
Posted by: roncypert
» A Must Read : The Current Crisis and the Solution ...
Posted by: mmckinl
» A Must Read : The Current Crisis and the Solution ...
Posted by: mmckinl
» A Must Read : The Current Crisis and the Solution ...
Posted by: mmckinl
Comments are closed-
Posted by: The Old Hippie on Sep 18, 2008 12:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Complex Simplicity of the Simplistic Complexity...
by The Old Hippie Because You Keep “Allowing,” Hasn’t Sunk In Yet.
The Federal Reserve, is not federal, nor has any reserves.
It is a private corporation, and controls the money, all of it, in this nation.
Free Speech Zones, mean you do not have free speech by definition.
They are not incompetent, nor stupid, they do know what they are doing.
Absolutely nothing matters to them, other than that they control the wealth.
You, and I, and the rest of the lower 99.?% of us, are not them.
50% of all populations, (e.g. America,) have below average IQs.
The myth of Christ proved to be very powerful, and very-very profitable.
Our media, in reality, is owned and controlled by just five corporations.
Whose majority of Boards of Directors are all share by the same people.
Those shared directors are also shared with the extractive energy, pharmaceutical, HMO,
ag-chem, and the military-industrial-complex corporations.
All of which are experiencing record profits, as the cost of everything you need climbs.
This nation’s military budget is 54% of our total budget.
And that 54% of our budget is greater than the combined military budgets of all the other nations.
As of the most recent figures, .001% now control 1/5 of the planet’s total wealth.
None of them care about you, nor your family, nor your friends.
Nor do they care about your job, or your health, or your environment, or your future.
You are not one of them. You are not their friend.
But yet. . .
You keep allowing yourself to react to their manipulations of your needs, as if you are.
Ask yourself - What have you done to prove that wrong? “Revolting,” isn’t it?
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» RE:Right on nuke them all
Posted by: solrev
» RE: Beating That Dead Horse...
Posted by: Alcinor
» Observe the corporate / institutional connections here:
Posted by: Ignatz deFyre
» RE: Observe the corporate / institutional connections here:
Posted by: The Old Hippie
» RE: Beating That Dead Horse...
Posted by: stopthemaddness2
Comments are closed-
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 18, 2008 1:16 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only glimmer of hope I have is for Barack Obama to be elected.
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» RE: It's probably too late.
Posted by: LaRayaAsul
» RE: It's probably too late.
Posted by: PointMan
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LMNOP on Sep 18, 2008 2:55 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Could Roosevelt (or Obama if he gets the chance) have been as effective in 2008 given the present Congress, Supreme Court and citizenry as he was in the thirties? Probably not.
If we go through a depression like the Americans of the thirties endured, would that make a difference? Probably, because that would make some of the conservatives whose businesses had suffered see value in a restorative effort, but it's very difficult to say if that difference would be enough.
This is a different America. It's globally connected more so than then, but I don't know if that would be relevant - would that help, hurt or neither. I also think that we are a weaker people than our great grandparents were. But again, I don't really know that, or whether that matters.
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» RE: Solutions are known. Implementing them is the problem.
Posted by: JSquercia
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Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Sep 18, 2008 4:06 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many of Kuttner's suggestions are good and necessary no-brainers for a nation run by a parasite ruling class thru organized corporate crime. But the reality of what got us here and a practical path to get out is missing. Like most MSM pundits, Kuttner deals in a broken red herring.
The top step is to abolish the illegal and private "Federal Reserve" Corp (not federal, no reserves) Ponzi Fascist bank scheme and get organized corporate crime out of Washington and the MSM. Until this happens, the corporate monopoly vampire class stays in command and people will remain out of power and out of options.
Depend on it.
For all his issues, President Jackson was the last president to completely defeat what he called "this organized money power from its secret conclave".
FDR would have said the same about of all of this and did say it:
“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the government of the U.S. ever since the days of Andrew Jackson. History depicts Andrew Jackson as the last truly honorable and incorruptible American president.”
President FDR (on Fascist rule in a letter to corporate con man “Colonel” Edward M. House, a founder of the Council on Foreign Relations and political fixer for the ruling class. House also handled President Wilson for the foisting of the privately rigged “Federal Reserve” Corp bank monopoly. 11/21/ 1933)
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» RE: FASCISM & FASCISTS caused the CRASH -- NOT "Free Market Extremists"
Posted by: left_libertarian
» But you simply are confirming the progressive point of view
Posted by: PaulC
» RE: A rose by any other name is still a rose
Posted by: solrev
» RE: A rose by any other name is still a rose
Posted by: dover23
» What about options 3,4,5,6?
Posted by: Spot
» A BS faux "Rose" will NEVER be a real one
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» RE: A BS faux "Rose" will NEVER be a real one
Posted by: EncinoM
» NeoCon EncinoMuck says Corporate Crime doesn't exist - We can All rest Easy
Posted by: PointMan
» RE: NeoCon EncinoMuck says Corporate Crime doesn't exist - We can All rest Easy
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: NeoCon EncinoMuck says Corporate Crime doesn't exist - We can All rest Easy
Posted by: PointMan
» RE: NeoCon EncinoMuck [EncinoM we don't always agree,
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE:Free Markets
Posted by: BeckyD
» RE: Free Markets and a rose
Posted by: setterwoman
» RE: Free Markets and a rose
Posted by: yellow
» Yeah... a CrackPot Cult Marxist will teach us about "Free Markets"
Posted by: PointMan
» Capitalism exists right now without free markets or competition
Posted by: PaulC
» "Capitalism" is DEFINED by free markets & competition - you speak NONSENSE
Posted by: PointMan
» Pointman, Paul C. is Perfectly correct.
Posted by: yellow
» "Yellow" Speaks more "Perfectly" daffy Cult Marxist ClapTrap
Posted by: PointMan
» RE: "Yellow" Speaks more "Perfectly" daffy Cult Marxist ClapTrap
Posted by: yellow
» RE: "Capitalism" is DEFINED by free markets & competition - you speak NONSENSE
Posted by: Squarehead
» Andrew Jackson Not a Fascist?
Posted by: curiousdwk
» understanding "fascism"
Posted by: wefearwhatwedontunderstand
» RE: understanding "fascism"
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: understanding "fascism"
Posted by: wefearwhatwedontunderstand
» RE: understanding "fascism"
Posted by: EncinoM
» Understanding Jackson vs FASCISM & Reality on the Ground
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» Andrew Jackson was Not Fascist - He was racist & so were most of the Founders
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» RE: Andrew Jackson was Not Fascist - He was racist & so were most of the Founders
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Andrew Jackson was Not Fascist - He was racist & so were most of the Founders
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» RE: Andrew Jackson was Not Fascist - He was racist & so were most of the Founders
Posted by: wefearwhatwedontunderstand
» RE: Andrew Jackson was Not Fascist - He was racist & so were most of the Founders
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» RE: Andrew Jackson was Not Fascist - He was racist & so were most of the Founders
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Andrew Jackson was Not Fascist - He was racist & so were most of the Founders
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» RE: Andrew Jackson was Not Fascist - He was racist & so were most of the Founders
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Andrew Jackson was Not Fascist - He was racist & so were most of the Founders
Posted by: PointMan
» RE: FASCISM & FASCISTS caused the CRASH [To Mister Psy_Ops, PointMan & OrwellMan
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: FASCISM & FASCISTS caused the CRASH -- NOT "Free Market Extremists"
Posted by: zuse000
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 18, 2008 4:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not in seventy-six years has the need to go in a totally new direction been as stupidly obvious as it is in 2008. Honestly, how are we going to look in the eyes of the rest of this planet if we foolishly continue down the self-destructive road we have been traveling these last eight years? We're going to look like a nation of racists, masochists and fools, don'cha think?
The Republican party has cut the throats of the poor and middle classes; they have looted our national treasure; they have abandoned their constituancy in favor of a multi-national behemoth and an out-of-control military industrial complex; they have created a global, geo-politcal catastrophe in the Middle East that will take at least a century to remedy; they have shoveled a generation of children into an untenable quagire in Iraq; they have engendered an economic nightmare so immense that generations yet unborn will still be bearing its burden; they have sold our beloved nation's soul to the highest corporate bidder; they have made a mockery of the First Ammendment; They have squandered a multi-trillion dollar surplus on a tax break for a class of people who already had more money than they knew what to do with; they have gutted vital social programs that aid the poor and elderly that have been in place for over seventy years; they have turned federal emergancy management into a sick joke; they have knocked the teeth out of laws meant to help working men and women; they have plundered the environment; they have deleted our educational system; they have hijacked this nation's political dialogue; they have ruined America's international reputation; they have handed our domestic agenda over to religious fanatics; they have denied voting rights to people of color in three states; they have stolen two national elections; they have trampled our Constitution; they have sent our Bill of Rights through the sausage grinder....
They must never, ever be alloud to govern this country again.
The grand old party is over.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"Crappy Days are Here Again
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» RE: oosevelt
Posted by: drich
» "The grand old party is over."
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: "The grand old party is over."
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: "The grand old party is over."
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: "The grand old party is over."
Posted by: Tom Degan
» This remind me of another Dictator
Posted by: Krain61
» RE: This remind me of another Dictator
Posted by: JSquercia
» Once Upon A Time
Posted by: Last Chance
» Anti-Trust Efforts are an Illusion. Capitalism concentrates wealth and assets by its historic nature
Posted by: yellow
» Not an accident....
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: oosevelt
Posted by: stopthemaddness2
» RE: Well said -- I'd add one clarification
Posted by: editnetwork
Comments are closed-
Posted by: tvgypsy on Sep 18, 2008 4:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I will feel sorry for Mr. Obama if he is unfortunate enough to win the election. On the other hand, I would feel worse for the rest of the world if Mr. McCain were to.
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» RE: tvgypsy
Posted by: Tom Degan
» If Elected --
Posted by: Last Chance
» Why?
Posted by: Evelyn
» RE: Why?
Posted by: nochicagoboys
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 18, 2008 5:06 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama's Challenge
America's Economic Crisis and the Power of a
Transformative Presidency
It's well worth your time.
By the way, did you see the slap down Kuttner gave to Sean Hannity on FOX Noise last week? Look it up on AlterNet's video!
Tom Degan
"The Rant"
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Posted by: willd4change on Sep 18, 2008 5:12 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: maxfactor on Sep 18, 2008 5:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: warrior woman on Sep 18, 2008 5:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yah, so? Make excuses. Why didn't the news caster ask any questions such as:"So why isn't this mess within the purvue of the banking or other appropriately regulated industry?? How did this proceed so far? WHat can be done to stop the bleeding? Who is being investigated? Do you forsee anyone going to jail or being held accountable?" And about 10,000 other questions that need answers.
AIG was one of my competitors over my 25+ years in the insurance industry. The entire time, those others of us always wondered how they could do the deals they did, seeming to often times teeter on the edge of legality. Well, now we know. They've sent people to jail from there in the past, they should now too.
We need to call our legislators and demand regulation be "re-installed". Now.
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» RE: FDIC? Hard questions...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: FDIC? Hard questions... and weasely answers
Posted by: editnetwork
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Posted by: Urstrly on Sep 18, 2008 5:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» You hit the nail on the head!
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: evamping Business Education
Posted by: mobilone
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Posted by: malaparte on Sep 18, 2008 5:27 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: hoppingfrog on Sep 18, 2008 5:29 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: corazon on Sep 18, 2008 5:33 AM
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Posted by: curiousdwk on Sep 18, 2008 6:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: GrantBurkeVT on Sep 18, 2008 6:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» They should also DEMOLISH the Democratic Party and build a new party of their own.
Posted by: maxpayne
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Posted by: ellie on Sep 18, 2008 6:18 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
almost a fistfight between 2 women over the last bag of ice... ok, so I was in the store for ice to keep meds cold that need to remain cold and a lady tried to swipe the bag out of my cart!!! her cart was loaded down with fresh meats... wandered over to the pharmacy isle and noticed that the pepto section was wiped out, food poisoning anyone???
sadly, passed the toy section and saw a huge isle of simple books to read, coloring books, stuff for kids to do that doesn't need batteries or an electrical socket and kids were out of school for 3 days... the isle was untouched and kids ran in packs around here bored out of their skulls getting into trouble while parents sat in stone silence...
tantrums tossed at the 2 women who work at a closed gas station (no power, no gas pumps) who took the time to set up shop to sell what water and drinks were in the store from the sidewalk... one of the women I noticed had a concealed weapon in the back of her jeans in a holster, guess she has a concealed permit... good for her...
people don't remember how to work a 4 way stop when the lights were out, paramedics were constantly untangling those that don't know left from right...
the only info from state or local authorities, let alone the electric company was on tv, now no lights means no tv, the radio stations were out after they ran out of fuel for their generators...
no help for people with medical or elderly emergencies, no red cross, water boil alerts only passed on from neighbors, hospital generators barely working but there is a fine water feature in the hospital lobby that looks like a hotel lobby...
this is the mindset of america we are dealing with in general, no wonder we are in a financial meltdown... seems like no one took the time to think ahead to what if... the general public allows those in power to have power, no not the electrical kind, but power over them to make what is assumed to be sound decisions...
note to me, put a bag of ice in the back of the freezer and leave it there for the next time which is bound to happen...
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» RE: we just came out of a 4 day blackout and this is what I learned...
Posted by: ebishirl
» Good Advice
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Good Advice
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Good Advice
Posted by: Last Chance
» It's Mad Max time
Posted by: zooeyhall
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Last Chance on Sep 18, 2008 6:21 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Answer. The people who sold short.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Would Some One Please Explain
Posted by: BigRon
» Yes, thankyou, that is a big help -->
Posted by: Last Chance
» Is this an honest question or rhetorical?
Posted by: IntnsRed
» It's a BASIC question
Posted by: Last Chance
Comments are closed-
Posted by: everton9 on Sep 18, 2008 6:47 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Prior to the collapse, popular belief held that it was the hedge funds that brought excessive risk into the market, however, though there have been some notable collapses, overall hedge funds are down but not broken. More importantly, the hedge funds that did collapse did not cause an increase in systemic risk. They were little more than a tiny blip on the radar.
The real problem was the giant investment banks, once thought to be the paradigms of free-market capitalism. Not only were they to big to be let fail, they were also to big to actually fail. It was believed that they risk was spread so well that they were diversified enough to sustain any market troubles.
However, the real problem is exemplified in the case of Lehman. As opposed to HFs and PE, Lehman was levered almost 50x. According to the bankruptcy filing, they had $639bn in assets and $613bn in liabilities. Thats $26bn net assets and $1.252tn gross assets. A 1% loss on gross assets would be a 50% loss on their actual capital.
Though I agree with the recommendation is this article, I recommend that the author be more sophisticated and not just attack the standard scapegoats: HF and PE. The argument would be more effective if it avoided such factual errors and misunderstandings.
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» RE: It wasn't the hedge funds and private equity this time
Posted by: EncinoM
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Posted by: Lilly on Sep 18, 2008 7:04 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: jmndodge on Sep 18, 2008 7:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Lilly on Sep 18, 2008 7:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Sep 18, 2008 7:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jiff
Online Privacy Center
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Posted by: ReallyBearish on Sep 18, 2008 7:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How bad is the problem? Really bad. J.P. Morgan has authorized the issuance of no more than 3,440 million shares, but the largest block holders of J.P. Morgan stock hold 4,800 million shares. The additional shares are counterfit, resulting from naked short selling. And this isn't the exception.
Read Dr. Patrick Burns from Overstock.com regarding the problem of naked short selling.
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» RE: Now we're getting a discussion of short selling
Posted by: EncinoM
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Sep 18, 2008 8:11 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Zooeyhall, you're pretty cool. More Nebraskans could learn from you.
Posted by: GrantBurkeVT
» Reagan on the dime
Posted by: zooeyhall
» The Great Depression seems to be back but only one thing's barely holding it down I think.
Posted by: GrantBurkeVT
» But the Democrats are joining the GOP in still supporting RAYGUNomics.
Posted by: maxpayne
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Posted by: kroenung58 on Sep 18, 2008 8:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If free market competition is such a good thing, why do capitalist politicians keep permitting enormous mergers to undercut it? Why not put a ceiling on how large any corporation can get?
This is an honest question, not a rant. Why is bigger automatically better?
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» RE: "Too Big to fail"=too big to be permitted
Posted by: Spot
» RE: "Too Big to fail"=too big to be permitted
Posted by: boing007
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Posted by: Spot on Sep 18, 2008 8:47 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FDR pitched the new deal to the financial elites as an alternative to REBELLION and CIVIL WAR.
What happens to the elites get if we don't get what we want? They won't lose representation in government, 90% of the posters on this site seem to support the Democrats despite their inability to enact any change or even challenge the status quo. Bush's approval rating is constantly under 20% and they tell us there's no political will for impeachment? There's plenty of will out here, but we keep electing cowards and representatives of the elite we're fighting against.
So if we can identify the problem, but constantly refuse to manifest our collective voice in a way that brings our needs or any possible solutions to the table, why should they care?
If you work two jobs, but can't pay the bills, the Democrats won't save you. If you want an end to stationing of American troops in foreign countries, the Democrats won't listen. If you want an end to the Bush doctrine, you don't want the Democrats. If the loss of manufacturing jobs in America is important to you, the Democrats are also to blame. If government regulation of financial markets is something you value, the Democrats have defaulted on your loan of political power.
Our decades of blind investment in the two major parties' American dreams have bred naivete and ignorance; there has been no return on our support, there has been no dividend or sustained appreciation in quality of life for 80% of Americans in the past 30 years!
I can't see how anyone can believe that the Democratic party is not entirely complicit in this disaster. The two major parties won't save us. We need political rebellion! We need an electoral map which takes into account more than red and blue! We must entirely reject the failed policies of the Reaganomic Era! We must elect a new group of representatives beholden to the electorate, and replace the twin, intermingled, corrupt networks of patronage and pork!
Every two years we get the opportunity to throw them out, to end careers which depend on the population for their legitimacy but which derive their ideology from the elite. Every two years I hear "voting for anyone but (insert Democrat here) is the same as voting for (insert Republican here)". That is simply not the case. Voting for Democrats is nearly always as counterproductive to progressive politics as voting Republican. Our only real option for change is to vote neither R nor D.
Vote for Obama if you must. But learn about the candidates down the ticket, and vote for one who shares your ideals. Politics starts in our own communities. It is our will to act made manifest, or it is nothing at all.
Refuse to re-elect politicians whose careers bank on safe decisions that you won't remember. Safe means suckling at the teat of the powers that keep us out of the process. Represent yourself through your vote, and hold on to your babies, cause the bathwater needs to go bye bye.
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» LOSERS vote Democrat and then complain when the Democrat FUCK the base and go GOP !
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE:Third party candidates can't save me.
Posted by: Spot
» You present nothing of substance
Posted by: PaulC
» RE: Let's fix it!
Posted by: jackyD
» RE: Let's fix it!
Posted by: Spot
» I like the local level idea. I still would say try all levels simultaneously to put pervasive
Posted by: maxpayne
» True that ! I'm still going 3rd party even though I live in a tossup state, VA.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: True that ! I'm still going 3rd party even though I live in a tossup state, VA.
Posted by: EncinoM
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Posted by: jlohman on Sep 18, 2008 8:51 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jack Lohman
MoneyedPoliticians.net
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Posted by: jlohman on Sep 18, 2008 8:51 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jack Lohman
MoneyedPoliticians.net
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Sep 18, 2008 9:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As the majority of Americans didn't share in the growth of the wealth distributed, we should neither have to share in propping up these failed policies! I hate to say it but these corporations need to fail! Regulation is a must, just as when you apply for a loan there needs to be some collateral obliged, we the people need collateral in the form of serious Regulations, otherwise this will happen again! Contrary to the Repugnikan spin on how the "free markets" will correct themselves, these mafiosa will not learn and need to be taught a lesson. These top grossing CEO's should be required to repay some (if not most)of their salaries back to the companies thru their hubris-tic malfeasance they ran into the ground!
The American people deserve no less than full accountability and transparency from both Government (Congress & regulatory offices) along with these corporations! As a full participant in the deregulation of corporate America John McShame has a lot of nerve even pretending that he has an inkling of understanding of what is going on! So his hollow talk of love of country is just that, hollow talk! He, his wife, and their cronies have all profited extremely well during this time, he should not even be considered for the presidency for his part in all of this!
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Posted by: symcokid on Sep 18, 2008 9:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First of all we should get to hell out of Iraq and the entire Middle East right now, then!
If we were to get our 1,000,000 troops out of the 130 foreign countries we are in and rid ourselves of the 716 military bases worldwide, then we would be talking very serious and substantial savings!!!
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» RE: No way on earth -----
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: No way on earth ----- excellent and right on.
Posted by: symcokid
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Posted by: alicelillie on Sep 18, 2008 9:20 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Or that the Bush administration is "free market extremist!!!"
Our economy in the U.S. is riddled with a crazy-quilt of regulation at the federal, state and local level that all business (particularly small business but also the huge corporations) is fairly chocking on it! Of course, it is true that the regs do favor the big guy, but nevertheless, we are regulated up to our eyeballs.
And, with our high taxes, we (especially the middle class) are paying to be told what to do!
I won't belabor here, but FDR did so much *harm* to us all... You on the left are so gung-ho on civil liberties that you are right alongside us libertarians in many areas, but yet you rever FDR! He was *not* in our camp! He did sign off on the false imprisonment of 110,000 Japanese Americans don't forget, and that was by no means all!!!
See my FDR section in my essay _The Three Worst American Enemies of Freedom_.
Warning...the whole essay is *very* politically incorrect, so if you wish you can scroll about halfway down to FDR.
Then read my screed against Bush, then maybe you will reconsider stringing me up...:/
It's at http://alicelillieandher.blogspot.com And, because the url is too long for this application, at the end you need to add /2005_05_01_archive.html
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» RE: I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS EITHER
Posted by: goatini
» Are you having fun yet?
Posted by: jlohman
» RE: I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!!!
Posted by: ellie
» Read History -->
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!!! Me, either. McCain, that righty, is calling for regulation.
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: common intelligence on Sep 18, 2008 11:05 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The powers scurrying about to save it have all been caught with their pants down.
The "jig is up". The only financial crisis is "theirs". for the rest of us, be happy their game is almost over. Except for Bush working to push through an other war in order to postpone and distract everyone from the fascist economic faud they have played on everyone (except me!).
So don't worry. Be happy. Now we call see and begin to face reality instead of being in denial. Dreams are only dreams.
But the American dream is a nightmare that has lead the nation into
fear.
A lot of Alternet likes to talk FDR.
well remember what he said.....
" The only thing we need to fear is fear itself."
We need not fear the truth. For the truth really does set us free.
Soon now we will be free from the illusion and we can build a truly new future. What that looks like is up to us.
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Posted by: edgar1 on Sep 18, 2008 2:14 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Vote for Barr or Nader, depending on your emotional affinity for the libertarian right or the libertarian left. But don't vote for Obama or McCain.
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» RE: The lesson is that you are very confused.
Posted by: yellow
» A Third-Party President Would Be Worse Than a Lame Duck
Posted by: thinks4herself2008
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Posted by: avatar_singh on Sep 18, 2008 2:34 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"
LESSONS FOR DENVER: FDR's 1932 Victory Over London's Wall Street Fascists
Increase Decrease
By Jeffrey Steinberg
On July 1, 1932, New York Gov. Franklin Delano Roosevelt won the Democratic Party Presidential nomination by a landslide vote of 945-190, over his nearest rival and avowed political enemy, the former New York governor and J.P. Morgan tool, Alfred E. Smith. On Nov. 8, 1932, Roosevelt won a second landslide victory, this time over incumbent Republican President Herbert Hoover. Roosevelt won 57% of the popular vote, and swept the Electoral College by 472-59. It was the greatest mandate for change in memory, and FDR immediately set out to return the U.S.A. to the tradition of the American System of political-economy, and, in so doing, brought the country out of the depths of the Great Depression, and prepared the nation for the great battles to come, against Nazism and Fascism--and an expected post-war battle to end the scourge of Anglo-Dutch colonialism.
Most Americans, with even a slight degree of historical literacy, know these basic facts about the election of 1932. Few, however, know how close the nation came to a disaster at the Democratic nominating convention in Chicago; how close FDR came to being deprived of the Presidential nomination, despite a groundswell of popular support; and how ruthlessly his Wall Street and City of London enemies sought to overturn the outcome of the 1932 election, through attempted assassination and coup d'etat.
It is that story, rarely told, that offers a vital lesson today to the Democratic Party, and to the American people, as the nation faces another monumental Presidential election--an election, like 1932, that once again may determine whether the United States survives for another generation, as the sovereign republic established by the Founding Fathers.
- A Challenge to Wall Street -
From the time that Franklin Roosevelt was reelected governor of New York in November 1930, by a sweeping majority, he emerged as the clear frontrunner for the Democratic Party Presidential nomination in 1932. He had already staked out a new direction for the nation, through his published writings and speeches, and some of the emergency measures he had taken as governor, to deal with the crushing impact of the 1929 Wall Street stock market crash, and the ensuing collapse of the U.S. economy.
In 1931, he pushed legislation through the Republican-majority New York State Legislature, which created the Temporary Emergency Relief Administration (TERA), with Harry Hopkins as the executive director. The $20 million program created jobs for the construction of hospitals, schools, and other vital infrastructure in the state, and provided other relief for the growing legions of unemployed. But Roosevelt made it clear that his efforts in New York were being countered, at every turn, by the Hoover Administration in Washington, that was more committed to bailing out the bankrupt financial institutions, than it was to providing for the welfare of an increasingly desperate American people.
In July 1928, FDR had penned an article for Foreign Affairs, the journal of the Council on Foreign Relations, which presented a ``Democratic View'' of ``Our Foreign Policy,'' in which he boldly spelled out a radical overhaul of American foreign policy, in the tradition of John Quincy Adams and the Treaty of Westphalia. Before being striken with polio in 1921, FDR had been Assistant Secretary of the Navy under President Woodrow Wilson, and had been the unsuccessful Democratic Party Vice Presidential candidate in 1920."
FDR wrote in Foreign Affairs, ``The time has come when we must accept not only certain facts but many new principles of a higher law, a newer and better standard in international
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» RE: Another instance of London directed speculation and manipulation of oil market today.-check this
Posted by: avatar_singh
» RE: LaRouche, why do they want his voice suppressed (Devils Advocate)
Posted by: common intelligence
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Posted by: Shankari46 on Sep 18, 2008 2:50 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» "Will probably happen now too"??? It has already happened!
Posted by: PaulC
» McCain's Tax Cuts for the Wealthy
Posted by: thinks4herself2008
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Posted by: Godfather89 on Sep 18, 2008 2:50 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So I ask you "The New World Order" is a socialist / communist run command control economic theory. If personal rights and economic rights are the same (and they are) than wouldn't controlling the economy like the way we do now only lead to the inevitable lose of liberties?
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» Bob Barr was a corporate socialist.
Posted by: maxpayne
» You obviously know nothing about socialism.
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: Direct Democracy on Sep 18, 2008 4:52 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FREE AMERICA
REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY
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Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 18, 2008 5:15 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» China already took over, what are you talking about? n/m
Posted by: PaulC
» Hey, it's DEMOCRATIC and go ahead and vote for Nader but
Posted by: thinks4herself2008
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Posted by: boing007 on Sep 18, 2008 5:23 PM
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Posted by: boing007 on Sep 18, 2008 5:31 PM
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» That sounds like a great idea I must admit.
Posted by: maxpayne
» Your father was correct, boing007
Posted by: PaulC
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Posted by: stopthemaddness2 on Sep 18, 2008 5:50 PM
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Posted by: stopthemaddness2 on Sep 18, 2008 6:04 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Malbone on Sep 18, 2008 6:27 PM
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I also have a blog entry on this issue:
My Plan for the First Hundred Days
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» I've read the NINE POINTS listed in your link. They're ideas that can really move us forward. THANKS
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Entirely true! Keynes redux [I also, on your thoughtful analysis
Posted by: Squarehead
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Posted by: amacd on Sep 18, 2008 6:36 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I come to bury capitalism, not to praise it.
Unlike FDR, we will not save capitalism from itself, but rather complete the American Revolution and establish a democracy of men to govern ourselves in a society of our whole political economy.
Our entire political AND economic system will be democratic --- rather than pretending to have political freedom while actually being ruled by an elite economic Empire.
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Posted by: Malbone on Sep 18, 2008 7:02 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: CA NOW on Sep 18, 2008 7:31 PM
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Posted by: sfpearce on Sep 18, 2008 8:14 PM
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Posted by: PaulK on Sep 18, 2008 8:16 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This next great depression is first and foremost going to be a 1930 Britain-style depression, characterized at first by nothing but debts backing the currency. The war ate everything, cleaned Uncle Sam out, whatever the domestic crooks didn't take. The corporations are all in the Cayman Islands and have forgotten their homeland now. During the 1929 panic we had a pyramid of a banking/investing system collapsing, but the actual wealth never left the country. Not so this time. In addition our country is hollowed out. We don't seem to have the cash to educate our kids or to see a doctor anymore. Nothing works anymore because the money is nearly gone starting at the top, so the states are broke, so the cities are broke, so the services are all gutted. We have a hollowing out of our government.
We will have a great depression every 75 years or so, depending on the average human lifespan. We always have. The new generation always forgets. Our democratic government, while better than most of the rotten kings of Europe, is still subject to being bought by the country's barons (or lately, foreign barons).
Get your grandchildren something they can really use: electoral reform.
My top recommendation is to switch many governments, one at a time, over to a "choice" or "voting by numbers" form of proportional representation. That's where you select your first, second and third choices for city council with the numbers 1, 2 and 3. If you don't get your first choice, you tend to get your second and third, so your vote really counts. No more "safe" districts anywhere!
Cambridge, MA has beat off 5 revoke attempts (everyone bankrolled by the political crooks in my opinion) in its 67 years of using proportional representation. It's hard to say if the city of Cambridge is rich because it has two outstanding universities, or if the city government has contributed to its two outstanding universities. In any case, it's nearly impossible to buy a majority of the city council off. The city council always has several women, black members, hispanic members, white members, liberal members, conservative members. They watch each others' budgets like hawks.
Elections are completely free of mudslinging. Mudslinging only works against one opponent, never against ten of them.
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Posted by: foreverhope on Sep 18, 2008 8:17 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
BE HAPPY DEMOCRATS!! THIS IS OUR TIME TO SHINE!
It had to get this bad for enough people to understand how wrong everything has been. The repuglicans are screwed.
This country is going to elect Barack Obama for president in November and give him a mandate in both houses of Congress. It's going to take time and hard work but I think we have hit rock bottom, the only way is up, and the democratic leaders, with Barack Obama as our president, can begin fixing the mess repugs have created since Reagan took office in 1981. That is how long it has taken to get here. Our Idiot Decider and Sick Dick aren't responsible for all of this! NOOOOOOOOO! It has been coming for a long long time, and for whatever reasons, ever since Reagan, the democrats have had a difficult time finding their voices and their balls.
All that is changing before our eyes, if you haven't noticed you will. We are entering an age of enlightenment. Intellectuals won't be called elitists anymore. Children won't have to eat ketchup as a vegetable for school lunch . We WILL have health care. We WILL have equal pay for equal work. We WILL regulate banks and other businesses to protect the consumer. We WILL have reproductive freedom. We absolutely WILL get out of Iraq! We WILL take care of our veterans. We WILL sort out the mess in Pakistan and Afghanistan. We WILL make peace with Putin to end fears of a new cold war. We WILL win back the respect of the world that's been lost over the past eight long years!
The list is endless, but we WILL do it, we CAN do it, and we MUST do it. We have no choice and with Obama's leadership it's going to happen, I have no doubts. So let's get out the vote.
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Posted by: katee on Sep 18, 2008 9:15 PM
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Posted by: mnstra on Sep 18, 2008 9:59 PM
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We need to string them up by their balls and
now.........
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» Lots of folks I know don't follow the news and don't get it.
Posted by: thinks4herself2008
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Posted by: shinseiji on Sep 18, 2008 11:07 PM
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Capitalism is not a system capable of equilibrium or stability, government or no government. It is the very nature of capitalism to find ways around barriers to maximum profit that leads to overaccumulation of capital and destabilization of the system. Attempting to put up such barriers is futile, only postponing the overaccumulation crisis until it explodes on an even grander scale.
Example: the Soviet Union. They though they could coexist with capitalism controlling most of world productive capacity while creating "socialism in one country". Well they were wrong, weren't they. If a state as powerful as the Soviet Union could not "contain" capitalism, why should we expect any better of the US? It won't contain it either.
The only solution is the abolition of capitalism worldwide.
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Posted by: BlackbirdHighway on Sep 19, 2008 3:46 AM
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Still to be decided: who is playing Hoover? Bush or McCain?
The one question I want to ask in the presidential debates is a very simple one:
Keynes or Friedman?
I can already predict Palin's answer: "Huh? In what respect???"
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Posted by: Daniel35 on Sep 19, 2008 5:26 PM
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Posted by: talkville on Sep 20, 2008 2:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone aligning themselves as "Left" ought to consider the terms of this 'debate': why does this article refer to New Deal actions and policies as "Counter-revolutionary"?? This concedes far, far too much to the Right Wing. What has occurred for the last 40 years or so is definitely not "a revolution"; especially since Reagan through the present, this has been a Reaction!! What has occurred to the working classes during these last decades is definitely not what any leftist, regardless of particular perspective, would call "revolutionary"; we have been beaten, thrashed, pounded, dis-possessed and dis-empowered and thoroughly immiserated by precisely the Right. In now way was that a Revolution -- that is Reaction incarnate!
It needs to be said and plainly: policies and strategies needed today by the vast majorities are the revolutionary ones -- including such reforms, ideas and policies which were used during the New Deal, but not excluding others either.
Where on earth can anyone consider themselves 'leftist' in any sense if this is characterized, as the title of this article advocates, as counterrevolution??!! Progress is never counter-revolutionary, only Reaction is. And it's time to act, and not re-act. Although beaten and bruised and perhaps compromised in many ways, the left is not dead by any means! Nor can we ever be 'counter-revolutionary' which would be a contradiction and terms.
Communications and words matter, especially these days. What needs to be opposed is Reaction plain and simple; that is definitely not counterrevolutionary.
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Posted by: zuse000 on Sep 20, 2008 7:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: gwhitejr on Sep 24, 2008 4:44 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the U.S. economy was allowed to be a true "Free Market" we would not have any of these problems. Roosevelt's new deal was a bailout much like this one. The major difference was that it's solutions were more punitive to the offenders than this is likely to be.
In a real free market companies, banks etc. who did business this way would simply fail. The gov't should lend money to SOLVENT companies to purchase these unethical failures...not bail out and allow them to continue to operate.
Captalism is darwinism...the role of regulation is to keep the playing field fair.
The U.S. is a Fascist society...and I mean the ORIGINAL meaning of the term...where CORPORATE interests BECOME GOVERNMENT interests.
The people who manage these companies should be prosecuted for mishandling of investor funds.
The proposed solution is to hand $Billions$ of dollars to people who have demonstrated their inability to manage it correctly. As with any ideology, Capitalism is not the offender...it is the lying, greedy, unethical PEOPLE!
Why not give the money to families who cant pay their mortgages...then they would pay them and the problem would be solved...right? {yeah right}
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Posted by: doinaheckuvajob on Sep 25, 2008 7:24 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These proposals are more like moderate liberal Democratic ones than FDR.
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Posted by: mmckinl on Sep 18, 2008 12:33 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What we need is a truly public central bank that prints our money without debt. The treasury just prints it or credits to our accounts to do government business without borrowing it from the Fed. The country is essentially insolvent now, that is we can't pay, have no hope of paying our principle and interest payments.
How do we get out of a debt spiral by printing more money ? We can't. But the banks will never give up their money making monopoly through debt creation. They will crash the economy before they relinquish the biggest welfare program in history.
Sure we can't print too much, but historical models such as Franklin's Bank in Pennsylvania have shown it works and works well when properly managed.
debt free money
Why should the banks, who caused this fiasco, retain a monopoly on our Constitutional Right to create money ?
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» Why should the banks...
Posted by: The Old Hippie
» Yes, and monopoly is a game in which all of the other players are losers
Posted by: greentime
» RE: The Horse is Out of the Barn ...
Posted by: roncypert
» A Must Read : The Current Crisis and the Solution ...
Posted by: mmckinl
» A Must Read : The Current Crisis and the Solution ...
Posted by: mmckinl
» A Must Read : The Current Crisis and the Solution ...
Posted by: mmckinl
Comments are closed-
Posted by: The Old Hippie on Sep 18, 2008 12:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Complex Simplicity of the Simplistic Complexity...
by The Old Hippie Because You Keep “Allowing,” Hasn’t Sunk In Yet.
The Federal Reserve, is not federal, nor has any reserves.
It is a private corporation, and controls the money, all of it, in this nation.
Free Speech Zones, mean you do not have free speech by definition.
They are not incompetent, nor stupid, they do know what they are doing.
Absolutely nothing matters to them, other than that they control the wealth.
You, and I, and the rest of the lower 99.?% of us, are not them.
50% of all populations, (e.g. America,) have below average IQs.
The myth of Christ proved to be very powerful, and very-very profitable.
Our media, in reality, is owned and controlled by just five corporations.
Whose majority of Boards of Directors are all share by the same people.
Those shared directors are also shared with the extractive energy, pharmaceutical, HMO,
ag-chem, and the military-industrial-complex corporations.
All of which are experiencing record profits, as the cost of everything you need climbs.
This nation’s military budget is 54% of our total budget.
And that 54% of our budget is greater than the combined military budgets of all the other nations.
As of the most recent figures, .001% now control 1/5 of the planet’s total wealth.
None of them care about you, nor your family, nor your friends.
Nor do they care about your job, or your health, or your environment, or your future.
You are not one of them. You are not their friend.
But yet. . .
You keep allowing yourself to react to their manipulations of your needs, as if you are.
Ask yourself - What have you done to prove that wrong? “Revolting,” isn’t it?
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» RE:Right on nuke them all
Posted by: solrev
» RE: Beating That Dead Horse...
Posted by: Alcinor
» Observe the corporate / institutional connections here:
Posted by: Ignatz deFyre
» RE: Observe the corporate / institutional connections here:
Posted by: The Old Hippie
» RE: Beating That Dead Horse...
Posted by: stopthemaddness2
Comments are closed-
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 18, 2008 1:16 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only glimmer of hope I have is for Barack Obama to be elected.
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» RE: It's probably too late.
Posted by: LaRayaAsul
» RE: It's probably too late.
Posted by: PointMan
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LMNOP on Sep 18, 2008 2:55 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Could Roosevelt (or Obama if he gets the chance) have been as effective in 2008 given the present Congress, Supreme Court and citizenry as he was in the thirties? Probably not.
If we go through a depression like the Americans of the thirties endured, would that make a difference? Probably, because that would make some of the conservatives whose businesses had suffered see value in a restorative effort, but it's very difficult to say if that difference would be enough.
This is a different America. It's globally connected more so than then, but I don't know if that would be relevant - would that help, hurt or neither. I also think that we are a weaker people than our great grandparents were. But again, I don't really know that, or whether that matters.
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» RE: Solutions are known. Implementing them is the problem.
Posted by: JSquercia
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Sep 18, 2008 4:06 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many of Kuttner's suggestions are good and necessary no-brainers for a nation run by a parasite ruling class thru organized corporate crime. But the reality of what got us here and a practical path to get out is missing. Like most MSM pundits, Kuttner deals in a broken red herring.
The top step is to abolish the illegal and private "Federal Reserve" Corp (not federal, no reserves) Ponzi Fascist bank scheme and get organized corporate crime out of Washington and the MSM. Until this happens, the corporate monopoly vampire class stays in command and people will remain out of power and out of options.
Depend on it.
For all his issues, President Jackson was the last president to completely defeat what he called "this organized money power from its secret conclave".
FDR would have said the same about of all of this and did say it:
“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the government of the U.S. ever since the days of Andrew Jackson. History depicts Andrew Jackson as the last truly honorable and incorruptible American president.”
President FDR (on Fascist rule in a letter to corporate con man “Colonel” Edward M. House, a founder of the Council on Foreign Relations and political fixer for the ruling class. House also handled President Wilson for the foisting of the privately rigged “Federal Reserve” Corp bank monopoly. 11/21/ 1933)
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» RE: FASCISM & FASCISTS caused the CRASH -- NOT "Free Market Extremists"
Posted by: left_libertarian
» But you simply are confirming the progressive point of view
Posted by: PaulC
» RE: A rose by any other name is still a rose
Posted by: solrev
» RE: A rose by any other name is still a rose
Posted by: dover23
» What about options 3,4,5,6?
Posted by: Spot
» A BS faux "Rose" will NEVER be a real one
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» RE: A BS faux "Rose" will NEVER be a real one
Posted by: EncinoM
» NeoCon EncinoMuck says Corporate Crime doesn't exist - We can All rest Easy
Posted by: PointMan
» RE: NeoCon EncinoMuck says Corporate Crime doesn't exist - We can All rest Easy
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: NeoCon EncinoMuck says Corporate Crime doesn't exist - We can All rest Easy
Posted by: PointMan
» RE: NeoCon EncinoMuck [EncinoM we don't always agree,
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE:Free Markets
Posted by: BeckyD
» RE: Free Markets and a rose
Posted by: setterwoman
» RE: Free Markets and a rose
Posted by: yellow
» Yeah... a CrackPot Cult Marxist will teach us about "Free Markets"
Posted by: PointMan
» Capitalism exists right now without free markets or competition
Posted by: PaulC
» "Capitalism" is DEFINED by free markets & competition - you speak NONSENSE
Posted by: PointMan
» Pointman, Paul C. is Perfectly correct.
Posted by: yellow
» "Yellow" Speaks more "Perfectly" daffy Cult Marxist ClapTrap
Posted by: PointMan
» RE: "Yellow" Speaks more "Perfectly" daffy Cult Marxist ClapTrap
Posted by: yellow
» RE: "Capitalism" is DEFINED by free markets & competition - you speak NONSENSE
Posted by: Squarehead
» Andrew Jackson Not a Fascist?
Posted by: curiousdwk
» understanding "fascism"
Posted by: wefearwhatwedontunderstand
» RE: understanding "fascism"
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: understanding "fascism"
Posted by: wefearwhatwedontunderstand
» RE: understanding "fascism"
Posted by: EncinoM
» Understanding Jackson vs FASCISM & Reality on the Ground
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» Andrew Jackson was Not Fascist - He was racist & so were most of the Founders
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» RE: Andrew Jackson was Not Fascist - He was racist & so were most of the Founders
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Andrew Jackson was Not Fascist - He was racist & so were most of the Founders
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» RE: Andrew Jackson was Not Fascist - He was racist & so were most of the Founders
Posted by: wefearwhatwedontunderstand
» RE: Andrew Jackson was Not Fascist - He was racist & so were most of the Founders
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» RE: Andrew Jackson was Not Fascist - He was racist & so were most of the Founders
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Andrew Jackson was Not Fascist - He was racist & so were most of the Founders
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» RE: Andrew Jackson was Not Fascist - He was racist & so were most of the Founders
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Andrew Jackson was Not Fascist - He was racist & so were most of the Founders
Posted by: PointMan
» RE: FASCISM & FASCISTS caused the CRASH [To Mister Psy_Ops, PointMan & OrwellMan
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: FASCISM & FASCISTS caused the CRASH -- NOT "Free Market Extremists"
Posted by: zuse000
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 18, 2008 4:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not in seventy-six years has the need to go in a totally new direction been as stupidly obvious as it is in 2008. Honestly, how are we going to look in the eyes of the rest of this planet if we foolishly continue down the self-destructive road we have been traveling these last eight years? We're going to look like a nation of racists, masochists and fools, don'cha think?
The Republican party has cut the throats of the poor and middle classes; they have looted our national treasure; they have abandoned their constituancy in favor of a multi-national behemoth and an out-of-control military industrial complex; they have created a global, geo-politcal catastrophe in the Middle East that will take at least a century to remedy; they have shoveled a generation of children into an untenable quagire in Iraq; they have engendered an economic nightmare so immense that generations yet unborn will still be bearing its burden; they have sold our beloved nation's soul to the highest corporate bidder; they have made a mockery of the First Ammendment; They have squandered a multi-trillion dollar surplus on a tax break for a class of people who already had more money than they knew what to do with; they have gutted vital social programs that aid the poor and elderly that have been in place for over seventy years; they have turned federal emergancy management into a sick joke; they have knocked the teeth out of laws meant to help working men and women; they have plundered the environment; they have deleted our educational system; they have hijacked this nation's political dialogue; they have ruined America's international reputation; they have handed our domestic agenda over to religious fanatics; they have denied voting rights to people of color in three states; they have stolen two national elections; they have trampled our Constitution; they have sent our Bill of Rights through the sausage grinder....
They must never, ever be alloud to govern this country again.
The grand old party is over.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"Crappy Days are Here Again
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» RE: oosevelt
Posted by: drich
» "The grand old party is over."
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: "The grand old party is over."
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: "The grand old party is over."
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: "The grand old party is over."
Posted by: Tom Degan
» This remind me of another Dictator
Posted by: Krain61
» RE: This remind me of another Dictator
Posted by: JSquercia
» Once Upon A Time
Posted by: Last Chance
» Anti-Trust Efforts are an Illusion. Capitalism concentrates wealth and assets by its historic nature
Posted by: yellow
» Not an accident....
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: oosevelt
Posted by: stopthemaddness2
» RE: Well said -- I'd add one clarification
Posted by: editnetwork
Comments are closed-
Posted by: tvgypsy on Sep 18, 2008 4:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I will feel sorry for Mr. Obama if he is unfortunate enough to win the election. On the other hand, I would feel worse for the rest of the world if Mr. McCain were to.
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» RE: tvgypsy
Posted by: Tom Degan
» If Elected --
Posted by: Last Chance
» Why?
Posted by: Evelyn
» RE: Why?
Posted by: nochicagoboys
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 18, 2008 5:06 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama's Challenge
America's Economic Crisis and the Power of a
Transformative Presidency
It's well worth your time.
By the way, did you see the slap down Kuttner gave to Sean Hannity on FOX Noise last week? Look it up on AlterNet's video!
Tom Degan
"The Rant"
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Posted by: willd4change on Sep 18, 2008 5:12 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: maxfactor on Sep 18, 2008 5:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: warrior woman on Sep 18, 2008 5:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yah, so? Make excuses. Why didn't the news caster ask any questions such as:"So why isn't this mess within the purvue of the banking or other appropriately regulated industry?? How did this proceed so far? WHat can be done to stop the bleeding? Who is being investigated? Do you forsee anyone going to jail or being held accountable?" And about 10,000 other questions that need answers.
AIG was one of my competitors over my 25+ years in the insurance industry. The entire time, those others of us always wondered how they could do the deals they did, seeming to often times teeter on the edge of legality. Well, now we know. They've sent people to jail from there in the past, they should now too.
We need to call our legislators and demand regulation be "re-installed". Now.
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» RE: FDIC? Hard questions...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: FDIC? Hard questions... and weasely answers
Posted by: editnetwork
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Posted by: Urstrly on Sep 18, 2008 5:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» You hit the nail on the head!
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: evamping Business Education
Posted by: mobilone
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Posted by: malaparte on Sep 18, 2008 5:27 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: hoppingfrog on Sep 18, 2008 5:29 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: corazon on Sep 18, 2008 5:33 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: curiousdwk on Sep 18, 2008 6:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: GrantBurkeVT on Sep 18, 2008 6:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» They should also DEMOLISH the Democratic Party and build a new party of their own.
Posted by: maxpayne
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ellie on Sep 18, 2008 6:18 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
almost a fistfight between 2 women over the last bag of ice... ok, so I was in the store for ice to keep meds cold that need to remain cold and a lady tried to swipe the bag out of my cart!!! her cart was loaded down with fresh meats... wandered over to the pharmacy isle and noticed that the pepto section was wiped out, food poisoning anyone???
sadly, passed the toy section and saw a huge isle of simple books to read, coloring books, stuff for kids to do that doesn't need batteries or an electrical socket and kids were out of school for 3 days... the isle was untouched and kids ran in packs around here bored out of their skulls getting into trouble while parents sat in stone silence...
tantrums tossed at the 2 women who work at a closed gas station (no power, no gas pumps) who took the time to set up shop to sell what water and drinks were in the store from the sidewalk... one of the women I noticed had a concealed weapon in the back of her jeans in a holster, guess she has a concealed permit... good for her...
people don't remember how to work a 4 way stop when the lights were out, paramedics were constantly untangling those that don't know left from right...
the only info from state or local authorities, let alone the electric company was on tv, now no lights means no tv, the radio stations were out after they ran out of fuel for their generators...
no help for people with medical or elderly emergencies, no red cross, water boil alerts only passed on from neighbors, hospital generators barely working but there is a fine water feature in the hospital lobby that looks like a hotel lobby...
this is the mindset of america we are dealing with in general, no wonder we are in a financial meltdown... seems like no one took the time to think ahead to what if... the general public allows those in power to have power, no not the electrical kind, but power over them to make what is assumed to be sound decisions...
note to me, put a bag of ice in the back of the freezer and leave it there for the next time which is bound to happen...
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» RE: we just came out of a 4 day blackout and this is what I learned...
Posted by: ebishirl
» Good Advice
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Good Advice
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Good Advice
Posted by: Last Chance
» It's Mad Max time
Posted by: zooeyhall
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Last Chance on Sep 18, 2008 6:21 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Answer. The people who sold short.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Would Some One Please Explain
Posted by: BigRon
» Yes, thankyou, that is a big help -->
Posted by: Last Chance
» Is this an honest question or rhetorical?
Posted by: IntnsRed
» It's a BASIC question
Posted by: Last Chance
Comments are closed-
Posted by: everton9 on Sep 18, 2008 6:47 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Prior to the collapse, popular belief held that it was the hedge funds that brought excessive risk into the market, however, though there have been some notable collapses, overall hedge funds are down but not broken. More importantly, the hedge funds that did collapse did not cause an increase in systemic risk. They were little more than a tiny blip on the radar.
The real problem was the giant investment banks, once thought to be the paradigms of free-market capitalism. Not only were they to big to be let fail, they were also to big to actually fail. It was believed that they risk was spread so well that they were diversified enough to sustain any market troubles.
However, the real problem is exemplified in the case of Lehman. As opposed to HFs and PE, Lehman was levered almost 50x. According to the bankruptcy filing, they had $639bn in assets and $613bn in liabilities. Thats $26bn net assets and $1.252tn gross assets. A 1% loss on gross assets would be a 50% loss on their actual capital.
Though I agree with the recommendation is this article, I recommend that the author be more sophisticated and not just attack the standard scapegoats: HF and PE. The argument would be more effective if it avoided such factual errors and misunderstandings.
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» RE: It wasn't the hedge funds and private equity this time
Posted by: EncinoM
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Posted by: Lilly on Sep 18, 2008 7:04 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: jmndodge on Sep 18, 2008 7:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Lilly on Sep 18, 2008 7:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Sep 18, 2008 7:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jiff
Online Privacy Center
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Posted by: ReallyBearish on Sep 18, 2008 7:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How bad is the problem? Really bad. J.P. Morgan has authorized the issuance of no more than 3,440 million shares, but the largest block holders of J.P. Morgan stock hold 4,800 million shares. The additional shares are counterfit, resulting from naked short selling. And this isn't the exception.
Read Dr. Patrick Burns from Overstock.com regarding the problem of naked short selling.
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» RE: Now we're getting a discussion of short selling
Posted by: EncinoM
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Sep 18, 2008 8:11 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Zooeyhall, you're pretty cool. More Nebraskans could learn from you.
Posted by: GrantBurkeVT
» Reagan on the dime
Posted by: zooeyhall
» The Great Depression seems to be back but only one thing's barely holding it down I think.
Posted by: GrantBurkeVT
» But the Democrats are joining the GOP in still supporting RAYGUNomics.
Posted by: maxpayne
Comments are closed-
Posted by: kroenung58 on Sep 18, 2008 8:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If free market competition is such a good thing, why do capitalist politicians keep permitting enormous mergers to undercut it? Why not put a ceiling on how large any corporation can get?
This is an honest question, not a rant. Why is bigger automatically better?
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» RE: "Too Big to fail"=too big to be permitted
Posted by: Spot
» RE: "Too Big to fail"=too big to be permitted
Posted by: boing007
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Spot on Sep 18, 2008 8:47 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FDR pitched the new deal to the financial elites as an alternative to REBELLION and CIVIL WAR.
What happens to the elites get if we don't get what we want? They won't lose representation in government, 90% of the posters on this site seem to support the Democrats despite their inability to enact any change or even challenge the status quo. Bush's approval rating is constantly under 20% and they tell us there's no political will for impeachment? There's plenty of will out here, but we keep electing cowards and representatives of the elite we're fighting against.
So if we can identify the problem, but constantly refuse to manifest our collective voice in a way that brings our needs or any possible solutions to the table, why should they care?
If you work two jobs, but can't pay the bills, the Democrats won't save you. If you want an end to stationing of American troops in foreign countries, the Democrats won't listen. If you want an end to the Bush doctrine, you don't want the Democrats. If the loss of manufacturing jobs in America is important to you, the Democrats are also to blame. If government regulation of financial markets is something you value, the Democrats have defaulted on your loan of political power.
Our decades of blind investment in the two major parties' American dreams have bred naivete and ignorance; there has been no return on our support, there has been no dividend or sustained appreciation in quality of life for 80% of Americans in the past 30 years!
I can't see how anyone can believe that the Democratic party is not entirely complicit in this disaster. The two major parties won't save us. We need political rebellion! We need an electoral map which takes into account more than red and blue! We must entirely reject the failed policies of the Reaganomic Era! We must elect a new group of representatives beholden to the electorate, and replace the twin, intermingled, corrupt networks of patronage and pork!
Every two years we get the opportunity to throw them out, to end careers which depend on the population for their legitimacy but which derive their ideology from the elite. Every two years I hear "voting for anyone but (insert Democrat here) is the same as voting for (insert Republican here)". That is simply not the case. Voting for Democrats is nearly always as counterproductive to progressive politics as voting Republican. Our only real option for change is to vote neither R nor D.
Vote for Obama if you must. But learn about the candidates down the ticket, and vote for one who shares your ideals. Politics starts in our own communities. It is our will to act made manifest, or it is nothing at all.
Refuse to re-elect politicians whose careers bank on safe decisions that you won't remember. Safe means suckling at the teat of the powers that keep us out of the process. Represent yourself through your vote, and hold on to your babies, cause the bathwater needs to go bye bye.
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» LOSERS vote Democrat and then complain when the Democrat FUCK the base and go GOP !
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE:Third party candidates can't save me.
Posted by: Spot
» You present nothing of substance
Posted by: PaulC
» RE: Let's fix it!
Posted by: jackyD
» RE: Let's fix it!
Posted by: Spot
» I like the local level idea. I still would say try all levels simultaneously to put pervasive
Posted by: maxpayne
» True that ! I'm still going 3rd party even though I live in a tossup state, VA.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: True that ! I'm still going 3rd party even though I live in a tossup state, VA.
Posted by: EncinoM
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jlohman on Sep 18, 2008 8:51 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jack Lohman
MoneyedPoliticians.net
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Posted by: jlohman on Sep 18, 2008 8:51 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jack Lohman
MoneyedPoliticians.net
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Sep 18, 2008 9:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As the majority of Americans didn't share in the growth of the wealth distributed, we should neither have to share in propping up these failed policies! I hate to say it but these corporations need to fail! Regulation is a must, just as when you apply for a loan there needs to be some collateral obliged, we the people need collateral in the form of serious Regulations, otherwise this will happen again! Contrary to the Repugnikan spin on how the "free markets" will correct themselves, these mafiosa will not learn and need to be taught a lesson. These top grossing CEO's should be required to repay some (if not most)of their salaries back to the companies thru their hubris-tic malfeasance they ran into the ground!
The American people deserve no less than full accountability and transparency from both Government (Congress & regulatory offices) along with these corporations! As a full participant in the deregulation of corporate America John McShame has a lot of nerve even pretending that he has an inkling of understanding of what is going on! So his hollow talk of love of country is just that, hollow talk! He, his wife, and their cronies have all profited extremely well during this time, he should not even be considered for the presidency for his part in all of this!
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Posted by: symcokid on Sep 18, 2008 9:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First of all we should get to hell out of Iraq and the entire Middle East right now, then!
If we were to get our 1,000,000 troops out of the 130 foreign countries we are in and rid ourselves of the 716 military bases worldwide, then we would be talking very serious and substantial savings!!!
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» RE: No way on earth -----
Posted by: edgar1
» RE: No way on earth ----- excellent and right on.
Posted by: symcokid
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Posted by: alicelillie on Sep 18, 2008 9:20 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Or that the Bush administration is "free market extremist!!!"
Our economy in the U.S. is riddled with a crazy-quilt of regulation at the federal, state and local level that all business (particularly small business but also the huge corporations) is fairly chocking on it! Of course, it is true that the regs do favor the big guy, but nevertheless, we are regulated up to our eyeballs.
And, with our high taxes, we (especially the middle class) are paying to be told what to do!
I won't belabor here, but FDR did so much *harm* to us all... You on the left are so gung-ho on civil liberties that you are right alongside us libertarians in many areas, but yet you rever FDR! He was *not* in our camp! He did sign off on the false imprisonment of 110,000 Japanese Americans don't forget, and that was by no means all!!!
See my FDR section in my essay _The Three Worst American Enemies of Freedom_.
Warning...the whole essay is *very* politically incorrect, so if you wish you can scroll about halfway down to FDR.
Then read my screed against Bush, then maybe you will reconsider stringing me up...:/
It's at http://alicelillieandher.blogspot.com And, because the url is too long for this application, at the end you need to add /2005_05_01_archive.html
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» RE: I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS EITHER
Posted by: goatini
» Are you having fun yet?
Posted by: jlohman
» RE: I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!!!
Posted by: ellie
» Read History -->
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!!! Me, either. McCain, that righty, is calling for regulation.
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: common intelligence on Sep 18, 2008 11:05 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The powers scurrying about to save it have all been caught with their pants down.
The "jig is up". The only financial crisis is "theirs". for the rest of us, be happy their game is almost over. Except for Bush working to push through an other war in order to postpone and distract everyone from the fascist economic faud they have played on everyone (except me!).
So don't worry. Be happy. Now we call see and begin to face reality instead of being in denial. Dreams are only dreams.
But the American dream is a nightmare that has lead the nation into
fear.
A lot of Alternet likes to talk FDR.
well remember what he said.....
" The only thing we need to fear is fear itself."
We need not fear the truth. For the truth really does set us free.
Soon now we will be free from the illusion and we can build a truly new future. What that looks like is up to us.
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Posted by: edgar1 on Sep 18, 2008 2:14 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Vote for Barr or Nader, depending on your emotional affinity for the libertarian right or the libertarian left. But don't vote for Obama or McCain.
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» RE: The lesson is that you are very confused.
Posted by: yellow
» A Third-Party President Would Be Worse Than a Lame Duck
Posted by: thinks4herself2008
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Posted by: avatar_singh on Sep 18, 2008 2:34 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"
LESSONS FOR DENVER: FDR's 1932 Victory Over London's Wall Street Fascists
Increase Decrease
By Jeffrey Steinberg
On July 1, 1932, New York Gov. Franklin Delano Roosevelt won the Democratic Party Presidential nomination by a landslide vote of 945-190, over his nearest rival and avowed political enemy, the former New York governor and J.P. Morgan tool, Alfred E. Smith. On Nov. 8, 1932, Roosevelt won a second landslide victory, this time over incumbent Republican President Herbert Hoover. Roosevelt won 57% of the popular vote, and swept the Electoral College by 472-59. It was the greatest mandate for change in memory, and FDR immediately set out to return the U.S.A. to the tradition of the American System of political-economy, and, in so doing, brought the country out of the depths of the Great Depression, and prepared the nation for the great battles to come, against Nazism and Fascism--and an expected post-war battle to end the scourge of Anglo-Dutch colonialism.
Most Americans, with even a slight degree of historical literacy, know these basic facts about the election of 1932. Few, however, know how close the nation came to a disaster at the Democratic nominating convention in Chicago; how close FDR came to being deprived of the Presidential nomination, despite a groundswell of popular support; and how ruthlessly his Wall Street and City of London enemies sought to overturn the outcome of the 1932 election, through attempted assassination and coup d'etat.
It is that story, rarely told, that offers a vital lesson today to the Democratic Party, and to the American people, as the nation faces another monumental Presidential election--an election, like 1932, that once again may determine whether the United States survives for another generation, as the sovereign republic established by the Founding Fathers.
- A Challenge to Wall Street -
From the time that Franklin Roosevelt was reelected governor of New York in November 1930, by a sweeping majority, he emerged as the clear frontrunner for the Democratic Party Presidential nomination in 1932. He had already staked out a new direction for the nation, through his published writings and speeches, and some of the emergency measures he had taken as governor, to deal with the crushing impact of the 1929 Wall Street stock market crash, and the ensuing collapse of the U.S. economy.
In 1931, he pushed legislation through the Republican-majority New York State Legislature, which created the Temporary Emergency Relief Administration (TERA), with Harry Hopkins as the executive director. The $20 million program created jobs for the construction of hospitals, schools, and other vital infrastructure in the state, and provided other relief for the growing legions of unemployed. But Roosevelt made it clear that his efforts in New York were being countered, at every turn, by the Hoover Administration in Washington, that was more committed to bailing out the bankrupt financial institutions, than it was to providing for the welfare of an increasingly desperate American people.
In July 1928, FDR had penned an article for Foreign Affairs, the journal of the Council on Foreign Relations, which presented a ``Democratic View'' of ``Our Foreign Policy,'' in which he boldly spelled out a radical overhaul of American foreign policy, in the tradition of John Quincy Adams and the Treaty of Westphalia. Before being striken with polio in 1921, FDR had been Assistant Secretary of the Navy under President Woodrow Wilson, and had been the unsuccessful Democratic Party Vice Presidential candidate in 1920."
FDR wrote in Foreign Affairs, ``The time has come when we must accept not only certain facts but many new principles of a higher law, a newer and better standard in international
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» RE: Another instance of London directed speculation and manipulation of oil market today.-check this
Posted by: avatar_singh
» RE: LaRouche, why do they want his voice suppressed (Devils Advocate)
Posted by: common intelligence
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Posted by: Shankari46 on Sep 18, 2008 2:50 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» "Will probably happen now too"??? It has already happened!
Posted by: PaulC
» McCain's Tax Cuts for the Wealthy
Posted by: thinks4herself2008
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Posted by: Godfather89 on Sep 18, 2008 2:50 PM
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So I ask you "The New World Order" is a socialist / communist run command control economic theory. If personal rights and economic rights are the same (and they are) than wouldn't controlling the economy like the way we do now only lead to the inevitable lose of liberties?
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» Bob Barr was a corporate socialist.
Posted by: maxpayne
» You obviously know nothing about socialism.
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: Direct Democracy on Sep 18, 2008 4:52 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FREE AMERICA
REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY
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Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 18, 2008 5:15 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» China already took over, what are you talking about? n/m
Posted by: PaulC
» Hey, it's DEMOCRATIC and go ahead and vote for Nader but
Posted by: thinks4herself2008
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Posted by: boing007 on Sep 18, 2008 5:23 PM
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Posted by: boing007 on Sep 18, 2008 5:31 PM
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» That sounds like a great idea I must admit.
Posted by: maxpayne
» Your father was correct, boing007
Posted by: PaulC
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Posted by: stopthemaddness2 on Sep 18, 2008 5:50 PM
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Posted by: stopthemaddness2 on Sep 18, 2008 6:04 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Malbone on Sep 18, 2008 6:27 PM
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I also have a blog entry on this issue:
My Plan for the First Hundred Days
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» I've read the NINE POINTS listed in your link. They're ideas that can really move us forward. THANKS
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Entirely true! Keynes redux [I also, on your thoughtful analysis
Posted by: Squarehead
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Posted by: amacd on Sep 18, 2008 6:36 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I come to bury capitalism, not to praise it.
Unlike FDR, we will not save capitalism from itself, but rather complete the American Revolution and establish a democracy of men to govern ourselves in a society of our whole political economy.
Our entire political AND economic system will be democratic --- rather than pretending to have political freedom while actually being ruled by an elite economic Empire.
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Posted by: Malbone on Sep 18, 2008 7:02 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: CA NOW on Sep 18, 2008 7:31 PM
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Posted by: sfpearce on Sep 18, 2008 8:14 PM
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Posted by: PaulK on Sep 18, 2008 8:16 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This next great depression is first and foremost going to be a 1930 Britain-style depression, characterized at first by nothing but debts backing the currency. The war ate everything, cleaned Uncle Sam out, whatever the domestic crooks didn't take. The corporations are all in the Cayman Islands and have forgotten their homeland now. During the 1929 panic we had a pyramid of a banking/investing system collapsing, but the actual wealth never left the country. Not so this time. In addition our country is hollowed out. We don't seem to have the cash to educate our kids or to see a doctor anymore. Nothing works anymore because the money is nearly gone starting at the top, so the states are broke, so the cities are broke, so the services are all gutted. We have a hollowing out of our government.
We will have a great depression every 75 years or so, depending on the average human lifespan. We always have. The new generation always forgets. Our democratic government, while better than most of the rotten kings of Europe, is still subject to being bought by the country's barons (or lately, foreign barons).
Get your grandchildren something they can really use: electoral reform.
My top recommendation is to switch many governments, one at a time, over to a "choice" or "voting by numbers" form of proportional representation. That's where you select your first, second and third choices for city council with the numbers 1, 2 and 3. If you don't get your first choice, you tend to get your second and third, so your vote really counts. No more "safe" districts anywhere!
Cambridge, MA has beat off 5 revoke attempts (everyone bankrolled by the political crooks in my opinion) in its 67 years of using proportional representation. It's hard to say if the city of Cambridge is rich because it has two outstanding universities, or if the city government has contributed to its two outstanding universities. In any case, it's nearly impossible to buy a majority of the city council off. The city council always has several women, black members, hispanic members, white members, liberal members, conservative members. They watch each others' budgets like hawks.
Elections are completely free of mudslinging. Mudslinging only works against one opponent, never against ten of them.
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Posted by: foreverhope on Sep 18, 2008 8:17 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
BE HAPPY DEMOCRATS!! THIS IS OUR TIME TO SHINE!
It had to get this bad for enough people to understand how wrong everything has been. The repuglicans are screwed.
This country is going to elect Barack Obama for president in November and give him a mandate in both houses of Congress. It's going to take time and hard work but I think we have hit rock bottom, the only way is up, and the democratic leaders, with Barack Obama as our president, can begin fixing the mess repugs have created since Reagan took office in 1981. That is how long it has taken to get here. Our Idiot Decider and Sick Dick aren't responsible for all of this! NOOOOOOOOO! It has been coming for a long long time, and for whatever reasons, ever since Reagan, the democrats have had a difficult time finding their voices and their balls.
All that is changing before our eyes, if you haven't noticed you will. We are entering an age of enlightenment. Intellectuals won't be called elitists anymore. Children won't have to eat ketchup as a vegetable for school lunch . We WILL have health care. We WILL have equal pay for equal work. We WILL regulate banks and other businesses to protect the consumer. We WILL have reproductive freedom. We absolutely WILL get out of Iraq! We WILL take care of our veterans. We WILL sort out the mess in Pakistan and Afghanistan. We WILL make peace with Putin to end fears of a new cold war. We WILL win back the respect of the world that's been lost over the past eight long years!
The list is endless, but we WILL do it, we CAN do it, and we MUST do it. We have no choice and with Obama's leadership it's going to happen, I have no doubts. So let's get out the vote.
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Posted by: katee on Sep 18, 2008 9:15 PM
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Posted by: mnstra on Sep 18, 2008 9:59 PM
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We need to string them up by their balls and
now.........
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» Lots of folks I know don't follow the news and don't get it.
Posted by: thinks4herself2008
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Posted by: shinseiji on Sep 18, 2008 11:07 PM
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Capitalism is not a system capable of equilibrium or stability, government or no government. It is the very nature of capitalism to find ways around barriers to maximum profit that leads to overaccumulation of capital and destabilization of the system. Attempting to put up such barriers is futile, only postponing the overaccumulation crisis until it explodes on an even grander scale.
Example: the Soviet Union. They though they could coexist with capitalism controlling most of world productive capacity while creating "socialism in one country". Well they were wrong, weren't they. If a state as powerful as the Soviet Union could not "contain" capitalism, why should we expect any better of the US? It won't contain it either.
The only solution is the abolition of capitalism worldwide.
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Posted by: BlackbirdHighway on Sep 19, 2008 3:46 AM
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Still to be decided: who is playing Hoover? Bush or McCain?
The one question I want to ask in the presidential debates is a very simple one:
Keynes or Friedman?
I can already predict Palin's answer: "Huh? In what respect???"
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Posted by: Daniel35 on Sep 19, 2008 5:26 PM
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Posted by: talkville on Sep 20, 2008 2:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone aligning themselves as "Left" ought to consider the terms of this 'debate': why does this article refer to New Deal actions and policies as "Counter-revolutionary"?? This concedes far, far too much to the Right Wing. What has occurred for the last 40 years or so is definitely not "a revolution"; especially since Reagan through the present, this has been a Reaction!! What has occurred to the working classes during these last decades is definitely not what any leftist, regardless of particular perspective, would call "revolutionary"; we have been beaten, thrashed, pounded, dis-possessed and dis-empowered and thoroughly immiserated by precisely the Right. In now way was that a Revolution -- that is Reaction incarnate!
It needs to be said and plainly: policies and strategies needed today by the vast majorities are the revolutionary ones -- including such reforms, ideas and policies which were used during the New Deal, but not excluding others either.
Where on earth can anyone consider themselves 'leftist' in any sense if this is characterized, as the title of this article advocates, as counterrevolution??!! Progress is never counter-revolutionary, only Reaction is. And it's time to act, and not re-act. Although beaten and bruised and perhaps compromised in many ways, the left is not dead by any means! Nor can we ever be 'counter-revolutionary' which would be a contradiction and terms.
Communications and words matter, especially these days. What needs to be opposed is Reaction plain and simple; that is definitely not counterrevolutionary.
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Posted by: zuse000 on Sep 20, 2008 7:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: gwhitejr on Sep 24, 2008 4:44 PM
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If the U.S. economy was allowed to be a true "Free Market" we would not have any of these problems. Roosevelt's new deal was a bailout much like this one. The major difference was that it's solutions were more punitive to the offenders than this is likely to be.
In a real free market companies, banks etc. who did business this way would simply fail. The gov't should lend money to SOLVENT companies to purchase these unethical failures...not bail out and allow them to continue to operate.
Captalism is darwinism...the role of regulation is to keep the playing field fair.
The U.S. is a Fascist society...and I mean the ORIGINAL meaning of the term...where CORPORATE interests BECOME GOVERNMENT interests.
The people who manage these companies should be prosecuted for mishandling of investor funds.
The proposed solution is to hand $Billions$ of dollars to people who have demonstrated their inability to manage it correctly. As with any ideology, Capitalism is not the offender...it is the lying, greedy, unethical PEOPLE!
Why not give the money to families who cant pay their mortgages...then they would pay them and the problem would be solved...right? {yeah right}
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Posted by: doinaheckuvajob on Sep 25, 2008 7:24 PM
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These proposals are more like moderate liberal Democratic ones than FDR.
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Tax the Corporations and the Rich or Take Draconian Cuts -- the Decision Is Ours
Fury at Wall St. Banks Fuels Public Action for Move Your Money Campaign
Why Congress Wants You to Shun Your Local Bookstore and Shop at Amazon Instead




