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AlterNet / By Danny Schechter
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 144

Credit Card Debt: This Popping Bubble Is Really Going to Hurt

While everyone's watching the housing meltdown, few are paying attention to the next bubble expected to burst: credit cards
August 12, 2008  |  
 
 
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Let me try a few words out on you: "Charge It," "Swipe It" and "Priceless."

You know exactly what I am talking about. We all have credit and debit cards. We all use them, and many of us keep our lives going because of them.

That is, until the bill becomes due.

The sad truth is that we are all complicit in our own economic servitude even if, at bottom, it's not our fault because we live in a consumption society, and don't feel we could live without them.

While many eyes are focusing on the housing meltdown and its hugely negative effect on an economy clearly moving into recession, few are paying attention to the next bubble expected to burst: credit cards. You would never know it by watching those slick VISA card ads on the Olympic TV broadcasts.

Combined with the subprime losses, such a credit card nightmare has the potential, experts say, of bringing down the entire financial system and global economy.

You and your credit card have become key players in the highly unstable financial crunch. Mortgage lender cupidity and bank credit card greed wedded to financial institution deregulation supported by both political parties, have been made manifestly worse by Bush administration support-the-rich policies. It has brought us to a brink not seen since just before the Great Depression.

While campaigning in Edinburg, Texas, in February, Barack Obama met with students at the University of Texas-Pan American. "Just be careful about those credit cards, all right? Don't eat out as much," he said. After the foreclosure crisis, he warned, "the credit cards are next in line."

The coupling of home equity debt and credit card debt has gone hand in glove for years. The homeowners at risk can no longer use their homes as ATM machines, thanks to their prior re-financings and equity loans, often used in the past to pay off their credit cards. Indeed, homeowners cashed out $1.2 trillion from their home equity from 2002 to 2007 to pay down credit card debts and to cover other costs of living, according to the public policy research organization Demos.

To compound the problem, fewer people are paying their credit card bills on time. And, to flip the old paradigm, more are using high-interest credit card cash to pay at least part of their mortgages instead of the other way around.

Younger people are being crushed by this debt burden as college students and new consumers. Emma Johnson of MSN Money reports that "Generation Y" is broke.

"The democratization of credit has really generated a competitive spending culture, and plastic has allowed for material goods not had in the previous generation," says Bob Manning, author of Credit Card Nation. "Most of us grew up in a home with just one or two bathrooms for the whole family, he points out; today, new homes usually have at least one bathroom per bedroom."That change has happened so fast," Manning says.

"This generation feels that somehow or another they're going to figure out some technological advancement that's going to get them out of their financial troubles and outsmart the market," says Manning, who served as adviser to the documentary In Debt We Trust. The documentary paints a picture of national financial crisis stemming from the personal-debt burden. (See InDebtWeTrust.com)

Happily, this issue is finally being addressed by Congress and the Federal Reserve Bank. When asked for comments, the public overloaded the Fed's website as the New York Times commented:

When the Federal Reserve asked for comments on its proposed rules on abusive credit card practices, an astonishing 56,000 poured in. Most were from outraged consumers. They told of interest rates skyrocketing when they paid an unrelated bill late. They complained of unwarranted late fees and pushed-up due dates. One Pennsylvania customer fumed: "I'm fed up with credit card company tricks that drive us deeper in debt."

This anguished deluge should send a clear message to leaders in Washington. The Federal Reserve should swiftly adopt its proposed rules against unfair or deceptive credit card practices. But the real burden to curb these abuses falls on Congress.

This discontent is being organized to press Congress to act by groups like the Consumer Federation of America and the Center for Responsible Lending. And Congress is listening:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Legislation aimed at curbing credit card billing practices that surprise borrowers with unexpected interest rate increases and fees was approved on Thursday by a U.S. House of Representatives committee.

The bill approved by Financial Services Committee mirrors Federal Reserve proposals that would effectively end double-cycle billing -- in which card companies reach back to prior billing cycles to help calculate the interest charged in the current cycle.

These reforms are a start but much more needs to be done because it's not just billing practices that is at issue -- it's high interest changes, deceptive marketing, and arbitrary rules. On top of that, there are other loans that need scrutiny including payday lenders and student loans. And of course our own addiction to shop until we drop.

Also, let us not forget that our credit card companies have been colonizing markets throughout the world. As the New York Times explained in a series on debt, "As the American blessing of credit cards became widespread, so did the American curse of debt."

Bear in mind the experience of another addicting industry -- tobacco. As they came under restraints in the US, they escalated their poison pushing worldwide.

Debt is a global issue and has to be treated as such.

Just as groups like NACA provide help to homeowners in distress, we need a major effort to help the victims of credit cards -- with practical assistance and political demands for regulation and relief.

Danny Schechter writes a blog for MediaChannel.org. He is the author of "Embedded: Weapons of Mass Deception: How the Media Failed to Cover the War on Iraq" (Prometheus).
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I saw this happening two years ago
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Bobsays on Aug 12, 2008 12:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And paid it all down. I would recommend massive life changes to ensure that what you earn exceeds what you spend. Too many people are playing the game of using credit cards to fill the gap. Too many are readers of Naomi Klein and believe the government will eventually under pressure bail them out. There is a huge economic cost for such a bail out: the total destruction of the US economy and global trust in investing in the US.

Earn, save, be frugal, love family/friends, backpack, have fun and learn. Stop wasting money on too big houses, too big cars, too big meals.

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» Hello Japan! Posted by: Bobsays
» Haven't had one in years... Posted by: cmaukonen
» RE: Haven't had one in years... Posted by: needlefoot

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Get Out While You Can
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Lpatrice on Aug 12, 2008 2:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pay off your credit cards, mortgages, car loans, etc as soon as you can. Things are only going to get worse. I have one more credit card to pay off and my car and then hopefully I'll never be in a position to have to finance anything ever again.

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Its Too Late
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Posted by: culheath on Aug 12, 2008 4:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The momentum toward failure is just to great. If everybody scrambles to pay off their cards ( which of course most people won't be able to anyway )it'll just cause a collapse like in the banking and housing. Those are credit collapses too. The whole credit system is going to fail in a spectacular way and the US is going have to adopt a socialist posture just to survive.

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What if we all default at once?
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Posted by: kegbot1 on Aug 12, 2008 4:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess my question is - how will bankrupt credit card companies collect on the debt if millions refuse to pay? Attach overmortgaged houses? Garnishee wages? Good luck with that on a massive scale, especially if these companies have to lay off people en masse.

There are no debtors prisons and I have the feeling that a good credit rating is going be meaningless where we are going as a nation.

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» Debtor Prison Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» RE: Debtor Prison Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» RE: Debtor Prison Posted by: MJ Fields
» FEMA REX 84 Posted by: thealltheone
» Great Idea Posted by: Gravitas
» RE: Great Idea Posted by: donnee

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Multiplier Effect
[Report this comment]
Posted by: edgar1 on Aug 12, 2008 5:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Until the Fed stops the practice of high interest, unsecured loans to low and middle income workers, it will go on. The credit card phenomenon triggers excessive consumer spending and inflates the trade deficit, as the bulk of goods purchased are Chinese or foreign made. The excess demand for services(restaurants, retail shops) triggered by credit cards leads to unnecessary development, and the burying in concrete of more of what remains of open land within a couple hours drive of most cities.

Credit cause cause and will cause problems beyond the bankruptcy of millions of consumers.
They are an engine of the economy of excess.
Development and lifestyle decisions are made that never would have been justified by the actual earnings and productivity of the individual user of credit cards.

Thus there is a multiplier effect that will trigger inflation, as well as bankruptcy, as artificial demand outstrips supply, or, as in the case of housing, artificially generated supply outstripped demand.

Americans act as if they are well-to-do; most are not. The gap between action and realtiy is another factor in the cheapening of the dollar and the eventual collapse of the economy.

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The whole concept of credit is backwards
[Report this comment]
Posted by: witchjug on Aug 12, 2008 5:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you want or need something and can not afford it you should save your money until you can afford it. By using credit to make a purchase your paying the credit company for the 'convienence' of short term gratification and ultimately the burdon of long term debt. I have had no credit cards (and no debt) for over 10 years and I sleep very well. But now I want to purchase a new home and although I have no debt I will have to get a credit card or a car loan to 'build credit' (my current home was inherited). This is a joke. I have to prove my ability to manage indetured servitude in order to buy a home. It's logic for bizzaro world, but as this and several other articles are begining to point out for the first time in our 40year love affair with credit, it's extreamly profitable for the credit companies. Gee, how did banks do mortages before credit cards were invented?

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» Why is it a joke? Posted by: suprmark

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There's Nothing Wrong With Debt Provided It is Used Responsibly With Reasonable Levels of Interest
[Report this comment]
Posted by: opmoc on Aug 12, 2008 5:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
5 years ago I had significant levels of credit card debt because banks were giving it away at 0% interest - provided you paid it all off over a set period which was usually 12 months. After the term was up - it was possible to roll it over to another card from another bank at 0% interest.

Free money is not to be sniffed at - providing you have the self discipline to take advantage.

Of course the banks threw all this money out realising that a large percentage of people don't have this self discipline and would be unable to pay if off after the intro.

They are then screwed with completely extortionate amounts of interest.

The same is happenning with mortgages and its the banks themsleves that have lost all self discipline by turning the entire financial system into a casino whilst those supposedly in control are on LSD not of the pounds shilling and pence variety.

But house prices were ridiculously overvalued and simply had to come down to affordable levels.

We will all go through a period of financial turmoil until proper regulations are reinstated and banks start again providing the services to people and businesses which they were originally intended to provide.

A large mortgage on an undervalued house in about 3 years time will be an extremely good deal - providing it is a traditional repayment mortgage on a level of interest close to the bank rate.

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Credit Card Debt
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Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Aug 12, 2008 6:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know a lot of people just busting out the cards (charging them up to the max then jsut stop paying). Seeing as the debt is unsecured, there is little anyone can do about it.

JT
Ultimate Anonymity

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Everyone should see Maxed Out
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Posted by: JBravoEcho11 on Aug 12, 2008 6:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That movie made me never want to use credit cards again. It's completely terrifying. I am ony using them temporarily until I my salary really gets going and I can start padding my account. I plan to pay off my cards almost completely by the end of this week. By the end of the month, they should be paid off. I know people are really suffering out there and I wish them the best of luck.

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Never Had a Credit Card
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Posted by: atheistcable on Aug 12, 2008 6:33 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't know how to feel about those who got themselves into credit-card debt. I'm 67 and I never had a credit card. I own a house and a bike, never got married, never raised kids, cats or dogs. Most of the clothes I wore were given to me or discarded by others. Occasionally I would buy nice second-hand clothes in a thrift-store--usually plaid shirts.
All my adult life I've been keenly aware of how my taxes were wasted by this warring nation and how lenders didn't have to produce anything--just sit on their fat ass and make money from the money given to them by those who didn't know how to resist the advertisers. And I wasn't going to contribute to these pigs, these parasites. I never bought a diamond, never supported South African apartheid or Rev. Charles Taylor. Never smoked, never supported Sen. Jesse Helms. Never bought illegal drugs, never supported private armies in foreign countries. I'm a strong advocate of legalized drugs--all of them.
Somewhere I read that Benjamin Franklin said: Dump your purse into your head. So, when I spent money, it was for educational purposes. (Of course, I spent money for a small apartment, and a mostly vegetarian diet.) Reading took the place of a car, traveling the world, going to movies and watching TV. With a few exceptions, I ate at home, not in restaurants. I am a tight-fisted miser without depriving myself of the pleasures of life--provided by solid intellectuals through their books. I've had a library card and never paid a fine for an over-due book or magazine in the past 40 years.
I was always aware that we live in an overpopulated world and I asked myself why I should spend money for kids when we already have too many. Oh-h-h, the money one can save by not having kids--or a wife. Never went to church to support a liar, a thief and a sexual predator. It's utterly immoral to drop money into that collection plate.
Likewise, I never gave to charity. And that doesn't make me a mean, insensitive or bad person. When I see some Christian organization begging for money to feed starving children, the first thing used to do was to look at the population growth rate of that country. Lester Brown of the Worldwatch Institute had a good influence on me. I don't do that anymore because I already know that poverty and overpopulation go hand-in-hand. I'm a strong advocate of abortion--for all three trimesters. Abortion is up to the woman, to have one or more for whatever reason she has--it's none of my business. Abortion is good--not an evil necessity as some will lament.
What we need to do is to teach people to be materially conservative and to boycott the capitalists as much as possible. Boycotting the capitalists includes depriving them of children.
Those are skills I developed in my lifetime. If you're going to labor, produce something that's useful, not junk just so that you can pay the landlord. Buy a house, don't rent. When you live in your own home, you then have 4th Amendment rights. I think the book that made me the saddest was "Working" by Studs Turkel. Legalize prostitution--and then teach people how not to be slaves or prostitutes. Of course, most of work is legalized prostitution.
I've been unemployed most of my life. That's because since I didn't spend much money, I had no need to work all the time. That further deprived capitalists of the profit they could make from me, it deprived federal and local governments of "my share" of taxes, and more of my time went to me--not an employer.

I wish to give advice without having any experience as one who was in debt to lenders, but I think if you live very modestly, you can pay off that credit card--and then cut it into 8 little pieces. As a reminder, take those 8 pieces and mount them on cardboard, frame it and hang it on your wall--as a reminder that you are now a recovering credit-card addict.

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» You are wrong; he is right Posted by: Bobsays
» RE: You are wrong; he is right Posted by: phoolish
» That's called a joint account. Posted by: blogbooks
» A Bit Self Righteous Posted by: Gravitas
» RE: Never Had a Credit Card Posted by: Carol Burns
» Had Credit Cards Posted by: donl51
» RE: Had Credit Cards Posted by: KiwiBR
» RE: Never Had a Credit Card Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: Never Had a Credit Card Posted by: Gracchus

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The Looming Credit Card Crisis is Only a Symptom.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: david.model@senecac.on.ca on Aug 12, 2008 6:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As rising gas prices, sub-prime mortgages, and nascent credit card disaster impose severe hardships on over 90% of Americans, public discourse focuses on the energy crisis, global warming, alternative fuels, bailouts, interest rates and the attendant economic woes. As the economic, political, and cultural elites hypothesize over the causes and solutions to the nations problems, they deliberately ignore the real problem which has been the shift over the last 40 years from a Keynesian to a free market economic model. Whereas Keynesian economic theory embraces the principle of some redistribution of wealth and a major role for government to provide basic programs and services, free market economics embraces the principle that the market should make all economic decisions and government should not interfere and distort the natural priorities attained otherwise.

An important corollary to free market theory is the axiom that the private sector is more suited to provide all programs and services including education, healthcare and social security. The private sector is an integral part of the market while government is outside its ambit and therefore tugs at the so-called “invisible hand” that guides the market to achieve a natural balance among competing forces and interests.

The problem with an economic and social system based on free market principles is that it is neither free nor just. In theory it may sound plausible but in practice it is very deceptive in that the government does play a major role in the economy but not to serve the public interest but to serve the interests of the wealthy and powerful elites promoting a growing gap between the rich and poor. America now consists of two classes of people, the recently deprived and the recently enriched.

Between 1973 and 2007, average workers wages dropped 10% while corporate profits increased 219%. In 2006, the richest 1% of Americans paid 22.8% tax rate based on adjusted gross income. The same group paid 28.9% in 1996. The new minimum wage is $6.55 but in 1968, the inflation-adjusted minimum wage was $9.86. People working at the minimum wage can no longer afford the bare necessities of life.

The fallacy that the private sector can perform these services more effectively and efficiently is that corporations have only one objective, and that is to maximize profits. Would you expect a management team reporting to its shareholders that it is curtailing profits to save the environment or pay workers a living wage?

There are a number of strategies for maximizing profits such as reducing the quality of the product or service, lowering wages, minimizing benefits, minimizing health and safety practices, avoiding implementing environmentally-friendly strategies and raising prices. Sound familiar?

For example, Wal-Mart is notorious for paying low wages and minimum benefits while earning huge profits for its shareholders. Oil companies are responsible for massive environmental damage when extracting oil. HMO’s and the insurance companies have devoted significant resources for developing strategies to minimize payouts to people with health plans. Then there are the 50 million people who can afford medical coverage. In the process of producing bottled water, Coca Cola has depleted and polluted aquifers while selling bottled water which is not better than tap water to its customers.

Each problem in itself has a very adverse impact on Americans but unless the underlying problem is addressed, profits will prevail over people.

http://www.stateofdarkness.com

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» Bible Bingo! Posted by: mcartri
» Great one Posted by: donl51

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Well, there are those doggy biscuit "bonus" points on them cards that keep people going.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: maxpayne on Aug 12, 2008 7:00 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All those seductive deals will keep people spending recklessly till they dropped. Like Bobsays pointed out, be frugal and learn the real meaning of love. Yes, here in America people will laugh and poke fun at you for being frugal and call you names such as "poor sissy" or even "liberal nanny" especially in the "conservative" areas where being frugal would actually save these poor slobs.

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How is the Government going to pay it's Debt?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ronheri on Aug 12, 2008 7:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our would be dictator has gone on a wild 7 year spending spree with America's credit, how will it ever be paid off, and what will be the consequences. Bigger government and tax cuts for the rich in a time of war and empire building; it's all coming to an end.

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» Nancy Sinatra Explained It. Posted by: mcartri

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Carol Burns
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Carol Burns on Aug 12, 2008 8:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
David, you hit the nail on the head. I have no credit cards, none, but I am constantly barraged with mail from credit card companies. Even our local university sends credit card applications with the school's return address and hosts credit card companies in the student commons. It's abyssmal.
However, I do owe the federal government. I received an SBA Disaster Loan after a major hurricane. FEMA did the absolute minimum to help, and I was told that my family could qualify for a FEMA grant by applying for an SBA disaster loan. I did not qualify for the grant, even though my house was leaking like a sieve and my husband & I had NO INCOME! (He was a self-employed subcontractor). The SBA was prepared to offer me a larger amount than I took, with the provision that they attach a lien to my home! By the time the SBA got around to funding the loan (3 months after my application and six months after the hurricane), I was so desperate that I took the money. It's not a lot of money per month, but it is a financial burden, especially in these dark times. I was hoodwinked, but FEMA and the SBA will both tell you that they are independent agencies and are not working in cahoots. So, the credit card companies are not the only threat!

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Wheres you action?
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Posted by: wallisp on Aug 12, 2008 8:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hundreds of millions of Americans have already felt the disaster capitalist ways of the credit card companies, but where the beef folks. Ask yourself, have you screamed at any politicial, leaders, your credit card companies in your communities, to return to the Usuary Laws of past. Caps on interest rates, caps of fees. No, I d'ont see anyone paying attention to this. When they changed the bankruptcy laws a few years ago, that was the fuel for creditcard companies to rape and pillage Americans' accounts, jobs and reputations. This is a form of economics, known as Disaster Capitalism. While everyone is complaining, and whining, a new system is being formulated behind your back, to make debt slaves out of the majority. So what are you going to do now Americans?
Talk it up with your friends, neighbors, companions, its all up to you to fix it.

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My one-two punch.
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Posted by: reelectnoone on Aug 12, 2008 8:31 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I finally had to bite the bullet or should I say bullets. Yesterday I signed a retainer. I am giving up my property and filing bankruptcy to wipe out credit card debt at the same time.

I will no longer have credit. If it is not in the bank I won't spend it.

The mortgage issue compounded the credit card issue just as explained in the article until there was no way out. This should have been done long ago but I was one of those fools who believed a good credit rating was so important. It is not. So much for the Bank Hype.

When I took this step I had a good credit rating. I was not even behind in any payments, however I had been playing the "game" switching money from one card to another to keep up with payments that could no longer be supported by my income, which has declined with the recession. The bleeding had to stop.

Believe it or not...I feel relieved.

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» RE: My one-two punch. Posted by: ellie
» RE: My one-two punch. Posted by: cherylholmes
» RE: My one-two punch. Posted by: donl51
» RE: Relief today but not later Posted by: PortlandLiberal

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Carol Burns
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Carol Burns on Aug 12, 2008 8:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One more comment & I'll get off the stump. I don't know how it is in other states, but in Florida, we have car title loan and payday loan "businesses" like weeds. We also have credit collection agencies that "guarantee" payment to the merchant, then charge humongous fees for tiny little overdrafts. Then there are the outrageous bank fees for NSF items, many of which have been not honored, and thus attached a bank charge, multiple times.

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here's how it goes...
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Posted by: ellie on Aug 12, 2008 8:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
personal health catastrophe = no income for almost a year while bureaucracies fight between themselves... last thing to pay is car and cards, no cash left over...

try to negotiate with companies... companies flip loans to each other so that no one has the actual file to look at to help you re-fi... finally give up cause $$ stops at life necessities like food, rent, utilities, no not including cable bill or any type of phone...

companies write off debt, credit score in sewer...

5 years later here they come but now on a fixed disability income that is 1/2 of what you made, you try again to re-negotiate with the vultures... car is repoed long ago, you called them and sent them the keys...

bring on the lawyers suing you for twice the amount owed plus 'court costs'... you scrape up half and offer it... they refuse to reply and file suit anyway... but, cash the money order anyway...

you send them what you can but it's not enough and they sue you for additional back interest and any other ponzi scheme they can dream up... bill winds up 2-3 times what it was in the first place... try to garnish your meager disability payments and you are 100% disabled anyway...

you've downsized everything you can possibly downsize already and still can't make it... no agencies will help, the famous 'don't know what to tell you' answer...

now you're homeless and in a soup kitchen line... trust me, know someone that this happened to...

we are looking at things inside out... the debtor's prison is where we all live now...

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» RE: here's how it goes... Posted by: atheistcable
» RE: here's how it goes... Posted by: cherylholmes

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Been there, and done that -- defaulted, that is
[Report this comment]
Posted by: JPHickey on Aug 12, 2008 10:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hi, In the mid-90s, I was hit by an overwhelming heath crisis. As a result, I lost everything. Someone took me in, and I've managed to gradually restore my health, redevelop my credit and over-all finances to some degree. Being age 66 already, I am not expecting to get back to where I was before, but at least I'm still alive and well, with a few credit cards (with limited debt).

Laws have probably changed, but I had defaulted on credit card debt well into the mid-five figures. My reasearch at that time indicated that if I did not pay one red cent, the debt would expire and be removed from my credit file after six years.

The trick was to be sure not to pay anything, or speak to anyone about this. Paying any small amount would have resulted in the resetting of the statue of limitations. I'm not sure that is the case today, you'd better check on it for yourselves.

As far as I'm concerned, when the big default in credit card an unsecured debt comes, if and when it comes, nothing will happen to anyone "guilty" of dropping out of "living up to your financial responsibilities". At that time, most will be in good company.

Even now, the U.S. can't afford to keep as many "criminals" as have been incarceratd. I wonder if they still bust petty pot smokers and put them in expensive often privately operated prisons? I do know that California already spends more on prisons than education (supposidly).

The economic system of the U.S. and apparently the "civilized world" lacks viability through and through. Really, how can we take this fraudulent system it too seriously? It's like a very bad joke. If you disagree, have I ever got a discounted derivitive for you! And rots of ruck to us all!

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Owe Credit Cards? Lose Your Home
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Posted by: cherylholmes on Aug 12, 2008 10:19 AM   
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That's coming next. People will lose their homes and other properties, real and other (cars, boats etc) as credit card companies slap them with liens for debts owed. Congress isn't going to act in the behalf of the consumers. Banking lobbyists are just another group that owns them. That's why bankruptcy laws were changed too in favor of the banks.

There's likely already a bill in Congress that will do this.

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It All Began With Reagan
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Posted by: Newsguy on Aug 12, 2008 10:34 AM   
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Ronald Reagan's war on the middle class included busting unions and helping corporations ship good jobs overseas. Good wages were replaced with credit. That's when people started using the equity in their houses and credit cards to survive.

Credit card interest was even tax deductible. The Republicans with the help of Democrats got rid of that benefit, and then in the last round of bankruptcy "reform" Republicans and some Democrats like Joe Biden helped make it much tougher on people overwhelmed with debt.

It is not all the fault of people who get into too much debt. It is way too often a hugely expensive medical crisis.

We need major reform of our economy, trade policy and health care reform to help people avoid massive debt.

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It is about time we pay the fiddler.
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Posted by: symcokid on Aug 12, 2008 10:55 AM   
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Anybody stupid enough to get suckered into utilizing Credit Cards deserves to get burned big time, you fell right into the governments trap. This USofA was well aware that this was just easy money and people would take advantage of it and not worry about paying it back anyway. Uncle Sam knew what was going on and allowed it to happen, but they're not worried about it because it all comes back to us the taxpayers just like the quasi mortgages have - the dumplings, we the people will pick up the tab.

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Congress is going to fix this? F'ing kidding, right?
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Posted by: 6399 on Aug 12, 2008 11:01 AM   
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"This anguished deluge should send a clear message to leaders in Washington. The Federal Reserve should swiftly adopt its proposed rules against unfair or deceptive credit card practices. But the real burden to curb these abuses falls on Congress."

Lenders, including Visa et al, have the blessing of, and indeed, are encouraged by Congress to bring the American people to heel by way of total indebtedness.

Our Orwellian security apparatus has been constructed to ensure that each of you can be quickly located and efficiently imprisoned when you fail to pay your corporate masters precisely what you owe them.

Asking Congress to deal with this is like asking Halliburton and Lockheed to negotiate a truce in Iraq. I know all you warm and fuzzy folks who still think there is a peaceful solution to this will find what I'm about to say revolting, but . . .

Tens of thousands of worthless, parasitic American corporatists must be killed within the next 3-5 years if this country is to survive. They must be made an example of.

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The Long Decline II.
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Posted by: yellow on Aug 12, 2008 11:20 AM   
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In The Long Decline I I noted that average annual growth rates of the US economy were far greater in the first three decades immediately following WWII than in the last three decades up to now. I also noted that the first three decades were charactorized by greater income equality and consistantly rising living standards for the growing middle classes whose purchasing power was the basis of the economy between 1945 and 1973. Yet it would be a mistake to say that the two periods under consideration is a distinction between "good" capitalism and "bad" capitalism, the latter being charactorized by globalization. Globalization is not a policy nor is it distinct from the dynamic of late capitalism. It is charactorized by financialization and privatization as well as the unfettered hypermobility of capital. But globalization is a logical outcome of late capitalism's basic dynamic which is the concentration and centralization of capital as well as the radical upward shift in the distribution of wealth and income. Globalization is not a departure from the historic laws of motion of capital but a logical continuation of these laws.

The roots of stagnation, financialization and monopolization are not found in the 1970s but early after WWII. The sudden spurt of GDP growth after WWII was supported by the release of pent up demand during the highly productive war years and the failure to quickly demobilize the 12 million men and women in the US Armed Services which thus kept unemployment to a minimum. Trumans Federal Budget for FY 1950 was just over $42 billion with a full third of it directly committed to military spending and another 55% committed indirect spending military and security concerns. Only about 10% had no connection to military purposes. Thus, it was intense government spending, especially on the military, that provided the economic stimulus for the early post WWII US "economic miracle" rather than the dynamic of the private sector itself. It is interesting that the reduction of the top marginal income tax bracket from 90% to 70% was delayed until 1961 because of the large, necessary role played by military spending in stimulating and sustaining US capitalism.

Between 1957 and 1963, total non-farm employment grew by 4.3 million from 52.9 million to 57.2 million. Only 300,000 full time jobs of the 4.3 million job increase, or less than 8% were generated by non-farm private sector demand independant of government spending. Thus, the stagnation of the private sector job growth just as large tax cuts took place in the early 1960s, is evidence of late capitalism's chronic tendency toward stagnation despite fiscal policies and supply side stimulation of the private sector.

One reason was technology. Between 1947 and 1964, overall output levels and output per worker nearly doubled while the total number of production workers employed in the US manufacturing sector slightly declined. Thus, the growth of employment lagged well behind the growth of output and the GDP in general leading to a crisis of overproduction, growing unemployment and stagnant real wages. Eventually, industrial utilization capacity dropped sharply in the late 1960s from a peak of 90% in 1966 to about 72% in 1970. This led to a need for credit driven growth to clear inventories and sustain profit levels. Between 1945 and 1963, net private debt as a percentage of gross domestic product generated only by the private sector grew from 78% to 143%. It has been increasing steadily ever since that time.

Late capitalism, with its high average unemployment rates, slow post recession recoveries and low average annual rates GDP growth over the past thiry years, which have tended to fall to historic lows of well below 3%, signals the decline of US capitalism as a system.

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» RE: The Long Decline II. Posted by: mnstra
» RE: The Long Decline II. Posted by: phoolish

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Consumers Deserve A Bailout
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Posted by: jooljetkmae on Aug 12, 2008 12:00 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's interesting to observe people waiving their fingers at consumer advocates for trying to get mild government relief, which doesn't even amount to a bail out. This after hundreds of billions of taxpayer money has been used to save the banking industry. Nobody ever gives lectures about the "moral hazard" of hand outs to bankers. It's only when the people getting fleeced by the bankers get active that the lecture on personal responsibility happens. The free market is for credit card consumers, and socialism is for bankers.

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Why not mandatory personal finance education?
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Posted by: rcox on Aug 12, 2008 12:07 PM   
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Nice that Congress is trying to unravel the credit card knot, but many of our credit problems can be attributed to the fact that very few Americans have even a basic literacy in personal finance. It's not taught in high school, and if they don't learn it from their parents, then the young are going to be vulnerable when the credit card companies slip an application in with a high school diploma or a college acceptance letter. Mandated grade school education in life skills, with a focus on personal finance, would go a long way towards avoiding these credit bubbles. Seems Congress could do a lot better coming up with such a law and curriculum, rather than constantly having to fix these problems that are the accumulation of millions of bad individual financial decisions made because people just don't know any better.

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Not to be too cynical but...
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Posted by: Hovey on Aug 12, 2008 12:13 PM   
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You know we will just do a bailout in the credit industry too, like we have with Chrysler, Airlines, Banks, Banks again, ya know?
Well at least for the biggest abusers. This government/generation of leaders have the belief that not only is debt good but that it can go on forever. sigh....

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It's a catcha 22
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Posted by: donl51 on Aug 12, 2008 12:21 PM   
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caio !

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The difference is that we won't get bailed out
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Posted by: fanny666 on Aug 12, 2008 12:32 PM   
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They'd never use taxpayer money to bail out the taxpayers. Socialism is only for the wealthy.

Michael Hudson is Kucinich's chief economic advisor. His stuff is worth reading. He thinks that we've reached a point where the level of debt is simply too large to ever be paid back. (not just personal debt, but public debt as well)

www.Michael-Hudson.com

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OK, I know it takes two to tango
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Posted by: willymack on Aug 12, 2008 2:04 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can't blame greedy bankers, etc. 100% for the credit mess, but I think we can assign 75% or more to them. Just take a look at all the credit card offers thrown at us on a daily basis. They make those things look pretty attractive, don't they? The sad part of this is if they made the damn things affordable with 5% interest let's say, there wouldn't be so many people "upside down" in debt, and the bankers would STILL make a nice profit, but nooooooo! They're allowed to pick our pockets at will, and are most likely greasing the palms of key politicos for that privilege. If there's a credit crash, I hope it waits until Obama is sworn in, and they get NO bailout. Oh, to see them fall.

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Be careful swapping credit card debts for a home mortgage
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Posted by: PaulK on Aug 12, 2008 2:22 PM   
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The credit card companies pay for advertising to pump their "impartial credit card debt counselors" who will not ever give you the real skinny.

If you owe credit card debt alone, you can declare bankruptcy and keep your house. The credit card companies have to eat some of their debt. If, on the other hand, you've swapped for a mortgage or second mortgage, they've got your house too.

Watch yourself out there.

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It's not the card, it's the shopping mall economy
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Posted by: dayahka on Aug 12, 2008 3:16 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not using cards or paying off those you have or living within your means are all nice--but not relevant to the present situation. The people are just sheep; they follow the big dog, in this case a government that lives on and off debt and other people's money. Most people figure--if the government sets the example, why shouldn't I follow? Look at the mortgage crisis--millions walk away, banks lose trillions, government prints more money. Same will happen for credit cards--millions refuse to pay back, banks lose trillions, government prints more money.

Something has got to give, you say. But if there's but a decade left before global warming changes everything, and about that before there's no more oil, and we're all screwed, why bother to be good and thrifty? Why not just live it up and when it all collapses, if we're still around we'll figure something out.

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Do you have a Plan B for your life?
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Posted by: joaocleitao on Aug 12, 2008 3:35 PM   
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We are building a community. A solution for peak oil, the unfolding financial and economic crisis, climate change and the pursuit of authentic happiness.

Please visit our web site:

www.relocatenow.eu

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What's wrong with you people?
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Posted by: blogbooks on Aug 12, 2008 4:10 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you really think shit is about to hit the fan then why are you frantically trying to pay down your debt?

If society crumbles your debt will be meaningless. Better to have a few guns, a huge stockpile of food, and whatever else you can get by spending all of your available credit than it is to have no debt and some worthless paper money in a saving account.

If you really believe the doomsday prophecies you spout then the BEST advice would be to max out your credit cards, refinance your home (and build a smaller, cheaper one under someone else's name), take as many loans as possible etc. and buy REAL ASSETS (like guns, food, land, a home, gold, silver).

Seems to me that the only reason to pay back debt is because you expect the status quo to remain stable. There are no debtors prisons. If you don't pay and society crumbles, welp, looks like you just got a bunch of free shit.

"Society is about to crumble, pay down all your debt so the wealthy are in the most advantageous place possible to survive and continue to exploit humanity forever."

Good advice Alternet.

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» RE: What's wrong with you people? Posted by: Chaversteve
» Interesting. Posted by: blogbooks

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Totally in the red
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Posted by: akbirdwm on Aug 12, 2008 4:14 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It not just the debt of the people of this nation that is going to bite us on the ass, its the accumulated debt of our government as well. The figures are out there for the factually minded, I'm feeling a bit lazy to look it up and link it here, the U.S.'s debt, which is an unfathomable amount to me, (what comes after trillion? Gazillion? answers my 4 year old.)is owned primarily by China. I believe Saudi Arabia owns a bit of us as well. So, what's gonna happen when they decide to call that debt in? This country is in for a big snowball of a hurting, no matter what happens this election cycle. The piper is due to be paid and he's not taking a rain check this time.

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America's shopping mall regime
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Posted by: blogbooks on Aug 12, 2008 4:19 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I took a 3 hour lunch the other day and wandered around one of the most expensive, yuppy infested malls in the D.C. area.

How repulsive.

Store after store that I have never heard of but sounds vaguely exotic and no doubt sells ridiculously expensive shit. I couldn't help but think to myself, as I always do when confronted by such a disgustingly hedonistic scene, "who buys this shit?"

Most of them catered to women.

I'd say about 40% of those in the mall were foreigners, no doubt connected in some way to an embassy given the size of their entourages and apparent wealth.

I can't think of anything more repulsive to my instincts than the sanitary, white washed, supremely artificial, yuppy bubble-world of an American mall in a wealthy area.

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Money is a failed system
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Posted by: metamind on Aug 12, 2008 7:24 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem is much larger than we are led to believe at this point in time. The idea that we can govern our world on a number-based economic system is at the root of the problem. The basic philosophical assumption of the money system is "quantity rules." The alternative is "quality rules." What is quality? The good things. That would include a sustainable economic system which plans for future generations and healthy individuals in every dimension ... mental, physical, spiritual etc.
A number-based economic system forces us to "go abstract" in our decision-making process because numbers are always abstract.
This is the essential evil of the system. It's easy to justify doing evil when you are "living in your head."

Imagine a system which allocated resources on need rather than greed, on wisdom rather than desire, on peace, kindness and compassion rather than domination and control.

The problem is much larger than we think.
The idea of money itself is at the root of it.
The Bible says "the love of money is the root of much evil." What it doesn't say is that the essential nature of love is attention. That means that we love whatever we pay attention to and therefore we love money by even thinking about it.

Let's start thinking about loving our brothers and sisters in humanity. There is one family ... the human family ... and we need an economic system which prioritizes the health and well being of our family.

Blessings!
Steve Moyer
http://stevemoyer.us

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PREDATORY LENDING IS AS OLD AS "THE MONEY CHANGERS IN THE
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Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Aug 12, 2008 9:39 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
temple". Jesus Christ faced it and so do you. It seems, sadly, that each generation has to learn it anew. My father refused to ever use a credit card. He was once mailed an American Express card. He cut it up and trash canned it. He was an adult for all of the great depression. He saw how the bankers did people.

IF A BANKER KNEW HOW TO MAKE MONEY HE WOULDN'T NEED YOURS.

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Danny, we need the numbers on this credit card crisis!
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Posted by: Chaversteve on Aug 13, 2008 1:10 AM   
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As I read through your article I kept expecting to start seeing the numbers that would quantify the extent of the Credit Card crisis that you say is Looming (and I believe you). Numbers, man. We've got to have some numbers.

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Aren't debit cards actually the solution?
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Posted by: fodder on Aug 13, 2008 11:54 AM   
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You mention "when the bill comes due." But debit cards don't produce a bill, the money comes right out of your bank account - even if you use it as a credit card. Wouldn't debit cards then be the answer to the whole problem? No cash, no spending...

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Wait Im Generation Y
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Posted by: Godfather89 on Aug 13, 2008 1:59 PM   
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Yeah well:

I have a crap job, so yeah in that regard I am broke. The economy is shitty as ever so yeah, in that regard I am indirectly broke.

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» I'm "gen-y" and I'm not broke Posted by: blogbooks

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prepared for consumption
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Posted by: cbishopp on Aug 14, 2008 1:04 PM   
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Most of America is based upon industries that prepare items for consumption. As a result we have lost control over everything that is important to our own well being and general health. We are spoiled and very comfortable with whatever dues the whole of society must pay for our individual actions.
I am not just one to criticize, until a few years ago I was wholly part of the problem. I still am in some ways.
Credit is bad but our whole system is based on a false calculation of wealth. A fractional banking system allows banks to loan out ten times more than they have in reserve. So they don't have what they lend you which you don't have either.
This false value put us into this housing market jam as well because many companies applied the debt from mortgages owed to them (brought about by risky lending practices) to their overall profit margin.
So what is money?
Are commerce and money the same?
If you borrowed money with no intention to return it (no matter what the small print says) shame on you.
There are so many people who are being fiscally responsible to themselves, their family, and the community and there are just as many assholes who steal from us all.
Many of those assholes are running our government.
We should all think about the impact we have on one another. Our contact is economic as well as physical and the more we help each other the easier it will be.
We do not have government, we do not have freedom, we do not have democracy, we have each other. All we have is community. The ability to care about the whole and organize individually is what will save us in the end.

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Success of the International Bankers -
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Posted by: hilly7 on Aug 16, 2008 10:09 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anybody that has studied history at all will see much of what is happening today, it has happened before. This time however, it will propel us closer to the ultimate goal. There is a film placed in many parts on Google (probably will not last long) that gives a quick picture to what is and has been a dream of a few, Wake Up Call - NWO. There are references to many great films one can learn from.

When one has more money that one can possibly spend, or generations to come can spend, what is left to be desired? Power and control. Thing of it is is that before this is over, many will be broke, many will die, and even more will wish for death. Ask another question, when all this pops, what are many 401ks, CDs, Pension Plans and more are tied to? This all hasn't been by flaw, it has been thought out, every detail, every counter.

It is not just here on failing economy, it is a global happening, and it ain't by accident. While many watch whatever show, sports, and other distractions, we have been slowly processed for one world government. There is a seperation between haves and have-nots, and the weeding will continue. Hint, hard work or loyalty will not entitle one to the have status, they consider it a birth right. If people wait until they are being loaded on box cars (already prepared), for camps, segregated not by color, religion, or any of the divisions they teach us to divide ourselves, rather by ability to conform and output of work- it will be too late. That is closer than one might think.

To Muse is to think. Placing an A in front of the word changes it to opposite. It is time we quit being Amused and start Musing for ourselves. OR - We can just be a product.

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Sensible Consumer
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Posted by: circanow on Aug 17, 2008 6:57 PM   
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I consider myself a sensible consumer. I do not have a credit card, and never have had one at the age of 58.

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» RE: Sensible Consumer Posted by: donl51

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Discount UGG Boots
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Posted by: qqNageli on Sep 7, 2008 7:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Welcome to Ugg Australia, the world's premier luxury brand of authentic sheepskin boots. Once you slide your naked feet into these cozy Ugg Australian sheepskin boots, you won't ever want to step out of them. Whether you prefer
blue or pink Ugg boots, casual or winter Ugg boots, Ugg Australia's got them all for
Discount UGG Boots
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UGG Boots

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Alternet Comments:

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I saw this happening two years ago
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Posted by: Bobsays on Aug 12, 2008 12:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And paid it all down. I would recommend massive life changes to ensure that what you earn exceeds what you spend. Too many people are playing the game of using credit cards to fill the gap. Too many are readers of Naomi Klein and believe the government will eventually under pressure bail them out. There is a huge economic cost for such a bail out: the total destruction of the US economy and global trust in investing in the US.

Earn, save, be frugal, love family/friends, backpack, have fun and learn. Stop wasting money on too big houses, too big cars, too big meals.

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» Hello Japan! Posted by: Bobsays
» Haven't had one in years... Posted by: cmaukonen
» RE: Haven't had one in years... Posted by: needlefoot

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Get Out While You Can
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Posted by: Lpatrice on Aug 12, 2008 2:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pay off your credit cards, mortgages, car loans, etc as soon as you can. Things are only going to get worse. I have one more credit card to pay off and my car and then hopefully I'll never be in a position to have to finance anything ever again.

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Its Too Late
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Posted by: culheath on Aug 12, 2008 4:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The momentum toward failure is just to great. If everybody scrambles to pay off their cards ( which of course most people won't be able to anyway )it'll just cause a collapse like in the banking and housing. Those are credit collapses too. The whole credit system is going to fail in a spectacular way and the US is going have to adopt a socialist posture just to survive.

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What if we all default at once?
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Posted by: kegbot1 on Aug 12, 2008 4:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess my question is - how will bankrupt credit card companies collect on the debt if millions refuse to pay? Attach overmortgaged houses? Garnishee wages? Good luck with that on a massive scale, especially if these companies have to lay off people en masse.

There are no debtors prisons and I have the feeling that a good credit rating is going be meaningless where we are going as a nation.

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» Debtor Prison Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» RE: Debtor Prison Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» RE: Debtor Prison Posted by: MJ Fields
» FEMA REX 84 Posted by: thealltheone
» Great Idea Posted by: Gravitas
» RE: Great Idea Posted by: donnee

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Multiplier Effect
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Posted by: edgar1 on Aug 12, 2008 5:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Until the Fed stops the practice of high interest, unsecured loans to low and middle income workers, it will go on. The credit card phenomenon triggers excessive consumer spending and inflates the trade deficit, as the bulk of goods purchased are Chinese or foreign made. The excess demand for services(restaurants, retail shops) triggered by credit cards leads to unnecessary development, and the burying in concrete of more of what remains of open land within a couple hours drive of most cities.

Credit cause cause and will cause problems beyond the bankruptcy of millions of consumers.
They are an engine of the economy of excess.
Development and lifestyle decisions are made that never would have been justified by the actual earnings and productivity of the individual user of credit cards.

Thus there is a multiplier effect that will trigger inflation, as well as bankruptcy, as artificial demand outstrips supply, or, as in the case of housing, artificially generated supply outstripped demand.

Americans act as if they are well-to-do; most are not. The gap between action and realtiy is another factor in the cheapening of the dollar and the eventual collapse of the economy.

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The whole concept of credit is backwards
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Posted by: witchjug on Aug 12, 2008 5:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you want or need something and can not afford it you should save your money until you can afford it. By using credit to make a purchase your paying the credit company for the 'convienence' of short term gratification and ultimately the burdon of long term debt. I have had no credit cards (and no debt) for over 10 years and I sleep very well. But now I want to purchase a new home and although I have no debt I will have to get a credit card or a car loan to 'build credit' (my current home was inherited). This is a joke. I have to prove my ability to manage indetured servitude in order to buy a home. It's logic for bizzaro world, but as this and several other articles are begining to point out for the first time in our 40year love affair with credit, it's extreamly profitable for the credit companies. Gee, how did banks do mortages before credit cards were invented?

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» Why is it a joke? Posted by: suprmark

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There's Nothing Wrong With Debt Provided It is Used Responsibly With Reasonable Levels of Interest
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Posted by: opmoc on Aug 12, 2008 5:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
5 years ago I had significant levels of credit card debt because banks were giving it away at 0% interest - provided you paid it all off over a set period which was usually 12 months. After the term was up - it was possible to roll it over to another card from another bank at 0% interest.

Free money is not to be sniffed at - providing you have the self discipline to take advantage.

Of course the banks threw all this money out realising that a large percentage of people don't have this self discipline and would be unable to pay if off after the intro.

They are then screwed with completely extortionate amounts of interest.

The same is happenning with mortgages and its the banks themsleves that have lost all self discipline by turning the entire financial system into a casino whilst those supposedly in control are on LSD not of the pounds shilling and pence variety.

But house prices were ridiculously overvalued and simply had to come down to affordable levels.

We will all go through a period of financial turmoil until proper regulations are reinstated and banks start again providing the services to people and businesses which they were originally intended to provide.

A large mortgage on an undervalued house in about 3 years time will be an extremely good deal - providing it is a traditional repayment mortgage on a level of interest close to the bank rate.

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Credit Card Debt
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Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Aug 12, 2008 6:25 AM   
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I know a lot of people just busting out the cards (charging them up to the max then jsut stop paying). Seeing as the debt is unsecured, there is little anyone can do about it.

JT
Ultimate Anonymity

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Everyone should see Maxed Out
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Posted by: JBravoEcho11 on Aug 12, 2008 6:26 AM   
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That movie made me never want to use credit cards again. It's completely terrifying. I am ony using them temporarily until I my salary really gets going and I can start padding my account. I plan to pay off my cards almost completely by the end of this week. By the end of the month, they should be paid off. I know people are really suffering out there and I wish them the best of luck.

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Never Had a Credit Card
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Posted by: atheistcable on Aug 12, 2008 6:33 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't know how to feel about those who got themselves into credit-card debt. I'm 67 and I never had a credit card. I own a house and a bike, never got married, never raised kids, cats or dogs. Most of the clothes I wore were given to me or discarded by others. Occasionally I would buy nice second-hand clothes in a thrift-store--usually plaid shirts.
All my adult life I've been keenly aware of how my taxes were wasted by this warring nation and how lenders didn't have to produce anything--just sit on their fat ass and make money from the money given to them by those who didn't know how to resist the advertisers. And I wasn't going to contribute to these pigs, these parasites. I never bought a diamond, never supported South African apartheid or Rev. Charles Taylor. Never smoked, never supported Sen. Jesse Helms. Never bought illegal drugs, never supported private armies in foreign countries. I'm a strong advocate of legalized drugs--all of them.
Somewhere I read that Benjamin Franklin said: Dump your purse into your head. So, when I spent money, it was for educational purposes. (Of course, I spent money for a small apartment, and a mostly vegetarian diet.) Reading took the place of a car, traveling the world, going to movies and watching TV. With a few exceptions, I ate at home, not in restaurants. I am a tight-fisted miser without depriving myself of the pleasures of life--provided by solid intellectuals through their books. I've had a library card and never paid a fine for an over-due book or magazine in the past 40 years.
I was always aware that we live in an overpopulated world and I asked myself why I should spend money for kids when we already have too many. Oh-h-h, the money one can save by not having kids--or a wife. Never went to church to support a liar, a thief and a sexual predator. It's utterly immoral to drop money into that collection plate.
Likewise, I never gave to charity. And that doesn't make me a mean, insensitive or bad person. When I see some Christian organization begging for money to feed starving children, the first thing used to do was to look at the population growth rate of that country. Lester Brown of the Worldwatch Institute had a good influence on me. I don't do that anymore because I already know that poverty and overpopulation go hand-in-hand. I'm a strong advocate of abortion--for all three trimesters. Abortion is up to the woman, to have one or more for whatever reason she has--it's none of my business. Abortion is good--not an evil necessity as some will lament.
What we need to do is to teach people to be materially conservative and to boycott the capitalists as much as possible. Boycotting the capitalists includes depriving them of children.
Those are skills I developed in my lifetime. If you're going to labor, produce something that's useful, not junk just so that you can pay the landlord. Buy a house, don't rent. When you live in your own home, you then have 4th Amendment rights. I think the book that made me the saddest was "Working" by Studs Turkel. Legalize prostitution--and then teach people how not to be slaves or prostitutes. Of course, most of work is legalized prostitution.
I've been unemployed most of my life. That's because since I didn't spend much money, I had no need to work all the time. That further deprived capitalists of the profit they could make from me, it deprived federal and local governments of "my share" of taxes, and more of my time went to me--not an employer.

I wish to give advice without having any experience as one who was in debt to lenders, but I think if you live very modestly, you can pay off that credit card--and then cut it into 8 little pieces. As a reminder, take those 8 pieces and mount them on cardboard, frame it and hang it on your wall--as a reminder that you are now a recovering credit-card addict.

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» You are wrong; he is right Posted by: Bobsays
» RE: You are wrong; he is right Posted by: phoolish
» That's called a joint account. Posted by: blogbooks
» A Bit Self Righteous Posted by: Gravitas
» RE: Never Had a Credit Card Posted by: Carol Burns
» Had Credit Cards Posted by: donl51
» RE: Had Credit Cards Posted by: KiwiBR
» RE: Never Had a Credit Card Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: Never Had a Credit Card Posted by: Gracchus

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The Looming Credit Card Crisis is Only a Symptom.
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Posted by: david.model@senecac.on.ca on Aug 12, 2008 6:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As rising gas prices, sub-prime mortgages, and nascent credit card disaster impose severe hardships on over 90% of Americans, public discourse focuses on the energy crisis, global warming, alternative fuels, bailouts, interest rates and the attendant economic woes. As the economic, political, and cultural elites hypothesize over the causes and solutions to the nations problems, they deliberately ignore the real problem which has been the shift over the last 40 years from a Keynesian to a free market economic model. Whereas Keynesian economic theory embraces the principle of some redistribution of wealth and a major role for government to provide basic programs and services, free market economics embraces the principle that the market should make all economic decisions and government should not interfere and distort the natural priorities attained otherwise.

An important corollary to free market theory is the axiom that the private sector is more suited to provide all programs and services including education, healthcare and social security. The private sector is an integral part of the market while government is outside its ambit and therefore tugs at the so-called “invisible hand” that guides the market to achieve a natural balance among competing forces and interests.

The problem with an economic and social system based on free market principles is that it is neither free nor just. In theory it may sound plausible but in practice it is very deceptive in that the government does play a major role in the economy but not to serve the public interest but to serve the interests of the wealthy and powerful elites promoting a growing gap between the rich and poor. America now consists of two classes of people, the recently deprived and the recently enriched.

Between 1973 and 2007, average workers wages dropped 10% while corporate profits increased 219%. In 2006, the richest 1% of Americans paid 22.8% tax rate based on adjusted gross income. The same group paid 28.9% in 1996. The new minimum wage is $6.55 but in 1968, the inflation-adjusted minimum wage was $9.86. People working at the minimum wage can no longer afford the bare necessities of life.

The fallacy that the private sector can perform these services more effectively and efficiently is that corporations have only one objective, and that is to maximize profits. Would you expect a management team reporting to its shareholders that it is curtailing profits to save the environment or pay workers a living wage?

There are a number of strategies for maximizing profits such as reducing the quality of the product or service, lowering wages, minimizing benefits, minimizing health and safety practices, avoiding implementing environmentally-friendly strategies and raising prices. Sound familiar?

For example, Wal-Mart is notorious for paying low wages and minimum benefits while earning huge profits for its shareholders. Oil companies are responsible for massive environmental damage when extracting oil. HMO’s and the insurance companies have devoted significant resources for developing strategies to minimize payouts to people with health plans. Then there are the 50 million people who can afford medical coverage. In the process of producing bottled water, Coca Cola has depleted and polluted aquifers while selling bottled water which is not better than tap water to its customers.

Each problem in itself has a very adverse impact on Americans but unless the underlying problem is addressed, profits will prevail over people.

http://www.stateofdarkness.com

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» Bible Bingo! Posted by: mcartri
» Great one Posted by: donl51

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Well, there are those doggy biscuit "bonus" points on them cards that keep people going.
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Posted by: maxpayne on Aug 12, 2008 7:00 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All those seductive deals will keep people spending recklessly till they dropped. Like Bobsays pointed out, be frugal and learn the real meaning of love. Yes, here in America people will laugh and poke fun at you for being frugal and call you names such as "poor sissy" or even "liberal nanny" especially in the "conservative" areas where being frugal would actually save these poor slobs.

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How is the Government going to pay it's Debt?
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Posted by: ronheri on Aug 12, 2008 7:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our would be dictator has gone on a wild 7 year spending spree with America's credit, how will it ever be paid off, and what will be the consequences. Bigger government and tax cuts for the rich in a time of war and empire building; it's all coming to an end.

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» Nancy Sinatra Explained It. Posted by: mcartri

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Carol Burns
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Posted by: Carol Burns on Aug 12, 2008 8:13 AM   
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David, you hit the nail on the head. I have no credit cards, none, but I am constantly barraged with mail from credit card companies. Even our local university sends credit card applications with the school's return address and hosts credit card companies in the student commons. It's abyssmal.
However, I do owe the federal government. I received an SBA Disaster Loan after a major hurricane. FEMA did the absolute minimum to help, and I was told that my family could qualify for a FEMA grant by applying for an SBA disaster loan. I did not qualify for the grant, even though my house was leaking like a sieve and my husband & I had NO INCOME! (He was a self-employed subcontractor). The SBA was prepared to offer me a larger amount than I took, with the provision that they attach a lien to my home! By the time the SBA got around to funding the loan (3 months after my application and six months after the hurricane), I was so desperate that I took the money. It's not a lot of money per month, but it is a financial burden, especially in these dark times. I was hoodwinked, but FEMA and the SBA will both tell you that they are independent agencies and are not working in cahoots. So, the credit card companies are not the only threat!

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Wheres you action?
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Posted by: wallisp on Aug 12, 2008 8:24 AM   
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Hundreds of millions of Americans have already felt the disaster capitalist ways of the credit card companies, but where the beef folks. Ask yourself, have you screamed at any politicial, leaders, your credit card companies in your communities, to return to the Usuary Laws of past. Caps on interest rates, caps of fees. No, I d'ont see anyone paying attention to this. When they changed the bankruptcy laws a few years ago, that was the fuel for creditcard companies to rape and pillage Americans' accounts, jobs and reputations. This is a form of economics, known as Disaster Capitalism. While everyone is complaining, and whining, a new system is being formulated behind your back, to make debt slaves out of the majority. So what are you going to do now Americans?
Talk it up with your friends, neighbors, companions, its all up to you to fix it.

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My one-two punch.
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Posted by: reelectnoone on Aug 12, 2008 8:31 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I finally had to bite the bullet or should I say bullets. Yesterday I signed a retainer. I am giving up my property and filing bankruptcy to wipe out credit card debt at the same time.

I will no longer have credit. If it is not in the bank I won't spend it.

The mortgage issue compounded the credit card issue just as explained in the article until there was no way out. This should have been done long ago but I was one of those fools who believed a good credit rating was so important. It is not. So much for the Bank Hype.

When I took this step I had a good credit rating. I was not even behind in any payments, however I had been playing the "game" switching money from one card to another to keep up with payments that could no longer be supported by my income, which has declined with the recession. The bleeding had to stop.

Believe it or not...I feel relieved.

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» RE: My one-two punch. Posted by: ellie
» RE: My one-two punch. Posted by: cherylholmes
» RE: My one-two punch. Posted by: donl51
» RE: Relief today but not later Posted by: PortlandLiberal

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Carol Burns
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Posted by: Carol Burns on Aug 12, 2008 8:39 AM   
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One more comment & I'll get off the stump. I don't know how it is in other states, but in Florida, we have car title loan and payday loan "businesses" like weeds. We also have credit collection agencies that "guarantee" payment to the merchant, then charge humongous fees for tiny little overdrafts. Then there are the outrageous bank fees for NSF items, many of which have been not honored, and thus attached a bank charge, multiple times.

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here's how it goes...
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Posted by: ellie on Aug 12, 2008 8:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
personal health catastrophe = no income for almost a year while bureaucracies fight between themselves... last thing to pay is car and cards, no cash left over...

try to negotiate with companies... companies flip loans to each other so that no one has the actual file to look at to help you re-fi... finally give up cause $$ stops at life necessities like food, rent, utilities, no not including cable bill or any type of phone...

companies write off debt, credit score in sewer...

5 years later here they come but now on a fixed disability income that is 1/2 of what you made, you try again to re-negotiate with the vultures... car is repoed long ago, you called them and sent them the keys...

bring on the lawyers suing you for twice the amount owed plus 'court costs'... you scrape up half and offer it... they refuse to reply and file suit anyway... but, cash the money order anyway...

you send them what you can but it's not enough and they sue you for additional back interest and any other ponzi scheme they can dream up... bill winds up 2-3 times what it was in the first place... try to garnish your meager disability payments and you are 100% disabled anyway...

you've downsized everything you can possibly downsize already and still can't make it... no agencies will help, the famous 'don't know what to tell you' answer...

now you're homeless and in a soup kitchen line... trust me, know someone that this happened to...

we are looking at things inside out... the debtor's prison is where we all live now...

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» RE: here's how it goes... Posted by: atheistcable
» RE: here's how it goes... Posted by: cherylholmes

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Been there, and done that -- defaulted, that is
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Posted by: JPHickey on Aug 12, 2008 10:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hi, In the mid-90s, I was hit by an overwhelming heath crisis. As a result, I lost everything. Someone took me in, and I've managed to gradually restore my health, redevelop my credit and over-all finances to some degree. Being age 66 already, I am not expecting to get back to where I was before, but at least I'm still alive and well, with a few credit cards (with limited debt).

Laws have probably changed, but I had defaulted on credit card debt well into the mid-five figures. My reasearch at that time indicated that if I did not pay one red cent, the debt would expire and be removed from my credit file after six years.

The trick was to be sure not to pay anything, or speak to anyone about this. Paying any small amount would have resulted in the resetting of the statue of limitations. I'm not sure that is the case today, you'd better check on it for yourselves.

As far as I'm concerned, when the big default in credit card an unsecured debt comes, if and when it comes, nothing will happen to anyone "guilty" of dropping out of "living up to your financial responsibilities". At that time, most will be in good company.

Even now, the U.S. can't afford to keep as many "criminals" as have been incarceratd. I wonder if they still bust petty pot smokers and put them in expensive often privately operated prisons? I do know that California already spends more on prisons than education (supposidly).

The economic system of the U.S. and apparently the "civilized world" lacks viability through and through. Really, how can we take this fraudulent system it too seriously? It's like a very bad joke. If you disagree, have I ever got a discounted derivitive for you! And rots of ruck to us all!

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Owe Credit Cards? Lose Your Home
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Posted by: cherylholmes on Aug 12, 2008 10:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's coming next. People will lose their homes and other properties, real and other (cars, boats etc) as credit card companies slap them with liens for debts owed. Congress isn't going to act in the behalf of the consumers. Banking lobbyists are just another group that owns them. That's why bankruptcy laws were changed too in favor of the banks.

There's likely already a bill in Congress that will do this.

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It All Began With Reagan
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Posted by: Newsguy on Aug 12, 2008 10:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ronald Reagan's war on the middle class included busting unions and helping corporations ship good jobs overseas. Good wages were replaced with credit. That's when people started using the equity in their houses and credit cards to survive.

Credit card interest was even tax deductible. The Republicans with the help of Democrats got rid of that benefit, and then in the last round of bankruptcy "reform" Republicans and some Democrats like Joe Biden helped make it much tougher on people overwhelmed with debt.

It is not all the fault of people who get into too much debt. It is way too often a hugely expensive medical crisis.

We need major reform of our economy, trade policy and health care reform to help people avoid massive debt.

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It is about time we pay the fiddler.
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Posted by: symcokid on Aug 12, 2008 10:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anybody stupid enough to get suckered into utilizing Credit Cards deserves to get burned big time, you fell right into the governments trap. This USofA was well aware that this was just easy money and people would take advantage of it and not worry about paying it back anyway. Uncle Sam knew what was going on and allowed it to happen, but they're not worried about it because it all comes back to us the taxpayers just like the quasi mortgages have - the dumplings, we the people will pick up the tab.

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Congress is going to fix this? F'ing kidding, right?
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Posted by: 6399 on Aug 12, 2008 11:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"This anguished deluge should send a clear message to leaders in Washington. The Federal Reserve should swiftly adopt its proposed rules against unfair or deceptive credit card practices. But the real burden to curb these abuses falls on Congress."

Lenders, including Visa et al, have the blessing of, and indeed, are encouraged by Congress to bring the American people to heel by way of total indebtedness.

Our Orwellian security apparatus has been constructed to ensure that each of you can be quickly located and efficiently imprisoned when you fail to pay your corporate masters precisely what you owe them.

Asking Congress to deal with this is like asking Halliburton and Lockheed to negotiate a truce in Iraq. I know all you warm and fuzzy folks who still think there is a peaceful solution to this will find what I'm about to say revolting, but . . .

Tens of thousands of worthless, parasitic American corporatists must be killed within the next 3-5 years if this country is to survive. They must be made an example of.

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The Long Decline II.
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Posted by: yellow on Aug 12, 2008 11:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In The Long Decline I I noted that average annual growth rates of the US economy were far greater in the first three decades immediately following WWII than in the last three decades up to now. I also noted that the first three decades were charactorized by greater income equality and consistantly rising living standards for the growing middle classes whose purchasing power was the basis of the economy between 1945 and 1973. Yet it would be a mistake to say that the two periods under consideration is a distinction between "good" capitalism and "bad" capitalism, the latter being charactorized by globalization. Globalization is not a policy nor is it distinct from the dynamic of late capitalism. It is charactorized by financialization and privatization as well as the unfettered hypermobility of capital. But globalization is a logical outcome of late capitalism's basic dynamic which is the concentration and centralization of capital as well as the radical upward shift in the distribution of wealth and income. Globalization is not a departure from the historic laws of motion of capital but a logical continuation of these laws.

The roots of stagnation, financialization and monopolization are not found in the 1970s but early after WWII. The sudden spurt of GDP growth after WWII was supported by the release of pent up demand during the highly productive war years and the failure to quickly demobilize the 12 million men and women in the US Armed Services which thus kept unemployment to a minimum. Trumans Federal Budget for FY 1950 was just over $42 billion with a full third of it directly committed to military spending and another 55% committed indirect spending military and security concerns. Only about 10% had no connection to military purposes. Thus, it was intense government spending, especially on the military, that provided the economic stimulus for the early post WWII US "economic miracle" rather than the dynamic of the private sector itself. It is interesting that the reduction of the top marginal income tax bracket from 90% to 70% was delayed until 1961 because of the large, necessary role played by military spending in stimulating and sustaining US capitalism.

Between 1957 and 1963, total non-farm employment grew by 4.3 million from 52.9 million to 57.2 million. Only 300,000 full time jobs of the 4.3 million job increase, or less than 8% were generated by non-farm private sector demand independant of government spending. Thus, the stagnation of the private sector job growth just as large tax cuts took place in the early 1960s, is evidence of late capitalism's chronic tendency toward stagnation despite fiscal policies and supply side stimulation of the private sector.

One reason was technology. Between 1947 and 1964, overall output levels and output per worker nearly doubled while the total number of production workers employed in the US manufacturing sector slightly declined. Thus, the growth of employment lagged well behind the growth of output and the GDP in general leading to a crisis of overproduction, growing unemployment and stagnant real wages. Eventually, industrial utilization capacity dropped sharply in the late 1960s from a peak of 90% in 1966 to about 72% in 1970. This led to a need for credit driven growth to clear inventories and sustain profit levels. Between 1945 and 1963, net private debt as a percentage of gross domestic product generated only by the private sector grew from 78% to 143%. It has been increasing steadily ever since that time.

Late capitalism, with its high average unemployment rates, slow post recession recoveries and low average annual rates GDP growth over the past thiry years, which have tended to fall to historic lows of well below 3%, signals the decline of US capitalism as a system.

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» RE: The Long Decline II. Posted by: mnstra
» RE: The Long Decline II. Posted by: phoolish

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Consumers Deserve A Bailout
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Posted by: jooljetkmae on Aug 12, 2008 12:00 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's interesting to observe people waiving their fingers at consumer advocates for trying to get mild government relief, which doesn't even amount to a bail out. This after hundreds of billions of taxpayer money has been used to save the banking industry. Nobody ever gives lectures about the "moral hazard" of hand outs to bankers. It's only when the people getting fleeced by the bankers get active that the lecture on personal responsibility happens. The free market is for credit card consumers, and socialism is for bankers.

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Why not mandatory personal finance education?
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Posted by: rcox on Aug 12, 2008 12:07 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nice that Congress is trying to unravel the credit card knot, but many of our credit problems can be attributed to the fact that very few Americans have even a basic literacy in personal finance. It's not taught in high school, and if they don't learn it from their parents, then the young are going to be vulnerable when the credit card companies slip an application in with a high school diploma or a college acceptance letter. Mandated grade school education in life skills, with a focus on personal finance, would go a long way towards avoiding these credit bubbles. Seems Congress could do a lot better coming up with such a law and curriculum, rather than constantly having to fix these problems that are the accumulation of millions of bad individual financial decisions made because people just don't know any better.

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Not to be too cynical but...
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Posted by: Hovey on Aug 12, 2008 12:13 PM   
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You know we will just do a bailout in the credit industry too, like we have with Chrysler, Airlines, Banks, Banks again, ya know?
Well at least for the biggest abusers. This government/generation of leaders have the belief that not only is debt good but that it can go on forever. sigh....

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It's a catcha 22
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Posted by: donl51 on Aug 12, 2008 12:21 PM   
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caio !

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The difference is that we won't get bailed out
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Posted by: fanny666 on Aug 12, 2008 12:32 PM   
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They'd never use taxpayer money to bail out the taxpayers. Socialism is only for the wealthy.

Michael Hudson is Kucinich's chief economic advisor. His stuff is worth reading. He thinks that we've reached a point where the level of debt is simply too large to ever be paid back. (not just personal debt, but public debt as well)

www.Michael-Hudson.com

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OK, I know it takes two to tango
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Posted by: willymack on Aug 12, 2008 2:04 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can't blame greedy bankers, etc. 100% for the credit mess, but I think we can assign 75% or more to them. Just take a look at all the credit card offers thrown at us on a daily basis. They make those things look pretty attractive, don't they? The sad part of this is if they made the damn things affordable with 5% interest let's say, there wouldn't be so many people "upside down" in debt, and the bankers would STILL make a nice profit, but nooooooo! They're allowed to pick our pockets at will, and are most likely greasing the palms of key politicos for that privilege. If there's a credit crash, I hope it waits until Obama is sworn in, and they get NO bailout. Oh, to see them fall.

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Be careful swapping credit card debts for a home mortgage
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Posted by: PaulK on Aug 12, 2008 2:22 PM   
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The credit card companies pay for advertising to pump their "impartial credit card debt counselors" who will not ever give you the real skinny.

If you owe credit card debt alone, you can declare bankruptcy and keep your house. The credit card companies have to eat some of their debt. If, on the other hand, you've swapped for a mortgage or second mortgage, they've got your house too.

Watch yourself out there.

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It's not the card, it's the shopping mall economy
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Posted by: dayahka on Aug 12, 2008 3:16 PM   
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Not using cards or paying off those you have or living within your means are all nice--but not relevant to the present situation. The people are just sheep; they follow the big dog, in this case a government that lives on and off debt and other people's money. Most people figure--if the government sets the example, why shouldn't I follow? Look at the mortgage crisis--millions walk away, banks lose trillions, government prints more money. Same will happen for credit cards--millions refuse to pay back, banks lose trillions, government prints more money.

Something has got to give, you say. But if there's but a decade left before global warming changes everything, and about that before there's no more oil, and we're all screwed, why bother to be good and thrifty? Why not just live it up and when it all collapses, if we're still around we'll figure something out.

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Do you have a Plan B for your life?
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Posted by: joaocleitao on Aug 12, 2008 3:35 PM   
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We are building a community. A solution for peak oil, the unfolding financial and economic crisis, climate change and the pursuit of authentic happiness.

Please visit our web site:

www.relocatenow.eu

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What's wrong with you people?
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Posted by: blogbooks on Aug 12, 2008 4:10 PM   
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If you really think shit is about to hit the fan then why are you frantically trying to pay down your debt?

If society crumbles your debt will be meaningless. Better to have a few guns, a huge stockpile of food, and whatever else you can get by spending all of your available credit than it is to have no debt and some worthless paper money in a saving account.

If you really believe the doomsday prophecies you spout then the BEST advice would be to max out your credit cards, refinance your home (and build a smaller, cheaper one under someone else's name), take as many loans as possible etc. and buy REAL ASSETS (like guns, food, land, a home, gold, silver).

Seems to me that the only reason to pay back debt is because you expect the status quo to remain stable. There are no debtors prisons. If you don't pay and society crumbles, welp, looks like you just got a bunch of free shit.

"Society is about to crumble, pay down all your debt so the wealthy are in the most advantageous place possible to survive and continue to exploit humanity forever."

Good advice Alternet.

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» RE: What's wrong with you people? Posted by: Chaversteve
» Interesting. Posted by: blogbooks

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Totally in the red
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Posted by: akbirdwm on Aug 12, 2008 4:14 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It not just the debt of the people of this nation that is going to bite us on the ass, its the accumulated debt of our government as well. The figures are out there for the factually minded, I'm feeling a bit lazy to look it up and link it here, the U.S.'s debt, which is an unfathomable amount to me, (what comes after trillion? Gazillion? answers my 4 year old.)is owned primarily by China. I believe Saudi Arabia owns a bit of us as well. So, what's gonna happen when they decide to call that debt in? This country is in for a big snowball of a hurting, no matter what happens this election cycle. The piper is due to be paid and he's not taking a rain check this time.

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America's shopping mall regime
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Posted by: blogbooks on Aug 12, 2008 4:19 PM   
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I took a 3 hour lunch the other day and wandered around one of the most expensive, yuppy infested malls in the D.C. area.

How repulsive.

Store after store that I have never heard of but sounds vaguely exotic and no doubt sells ridiculously expensive shit. I couldn't help but think to myself, as I always do when confronted by such a disgustingly hedonistic scene, "who buys this shit?"

Most of them catered to women.

I'd say about 40% of those in the mall were foreigners, no doubt connected in some way to an embassy given the size of their entourages and apparent wealth.

I can't think of anything more repulsive to my instincts than the sanitary, white washed, supremely artificial, yuppy bubble-world of an American mall in a wealthy area.

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Money is a failed system
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Posted by: metamind on Aug 12, 2008 7:24 PM   
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The problem is much larger than we are led to believe at this point in time. The idea that we can govern our world on a number-based economic system is at the root of the problem. The basic philosophical assumption of the money system is "quantity rules." The alternative is "quality rules." What is quality? The good things. That would include a sustainable economic system which plans for future generations and healthy individuals in every dimension ... mental, physical, spiritual etc.
A number-based economic system forces us to "go abstract" in our decision-making process because numbers are always abstract.
This is the essential evil of the system. It's easy to justify doing evil when you are "living in your head."

Imagine a system which allocated resources on need rather than greed, on wisdom rather than desire, on peace, kindness and compassion rather than domination and control.

The problem is much larger than we think.
The idea of money itself is at the root of it.
The Bible says "the love of money is the root of much evil." What it doesn't say is that the essential nature of love is attention. That means that we love whatever we pay attention to and therefore we love money by even thinking about it.

Let's start thinking about loving our brothers and sisters in humanity. There is one family ... the human family ... and we need an economic system which prioritizes the health and well being of our family.

Blessings!
Steve Moyer
http://stevemoyer.us

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PREDATORY LENDING IS AS OLD AS "THE MONEY CHANGERS IN THE
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Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Aug 12, 2008 9:39 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
temple". Jesus Christ faced it and so do you. It seems, sadly, that each generation has to learn it anew. My father refused to ever use a credit card. He was once mailed an American Express card. He cut it up and trash canned it. He was an adult for all of the great depression. He saw how the bankers did people.

IF A BANKER KNEW HOW TO MAKE MONEY HE WOULDN'T NEED YOURS.

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Danny, we need the numbers on this credit card crisis!
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Posted by: Chaversteve on Aug 13, 2008 1:10 AM   
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As I read through your article I kept expecting to start seeing the numbers that would quantify the extent of the Credit Card crisis that you say is Looming (and I believe you). Numbers, man. We've got to have some numbers.

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Aren't debit cards actually the solution?
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Posted by: fodder on Aug 13, 2008 11:54 AM   
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You mention "when the bill comes due." But debit cards don't produce a bill, the money comes right out of your bank account - even if you use it as a credit card. Wouldn't debit cards then be the answer to the whole problem? No cash, no spending...

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Wait Im Generation Y
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Posted by: Godfather89 on Aug 13, 2008 1:59 PM   
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Yeah well:

I have a crap job, so yeah in that regard I am broke. The economy is shitty as ever so yeah, in that regard I am indirectly broke.

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» I'm "gen-y" and I'm not broke Posted by: blogbooks

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prepared for consumption
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Posted by: cbishopp on Aug 14, 2008 1:04 PM   
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Most of America is based upon industries that prepare items for consumption. As a result we have lost control over everything that is important to our own well being and general health. We are spoiled and very comfortable with whatever dues the whole of society must pay for our individual actions.
I am not just one to criticize, until a few years ago I was wholly part of the problem. I still am in some ways.
Credit is bad but our whole system is based on a false calculation of wealth. A fractional banking system allows banks to loan out ten times more than they have in reserve. So they don't have what they lend you which you don't have either.
This false value put us into this housing market jam as well because many companies applied the debt from mortgages owed to them (brought about by risky lending practices) to their overall profit margin.
So what is money?
Are commerce and money the same?
If you borrowed money with no intention to return it (no matter what the small print says) shame on you.
There are so many people who are being fiscally responsible to themselves, their family, and the community and there are just as many assholes who steal from us all.
Many of those assholes are running our government.
We should all think about the impact we have on one another. Our contact is economic as well as physical and the more we help each other the easier it will be.
We do not have government, we do not have freedom, we do not have democracy, we have each other. All we have is community. The ability to care about the whole and organize individually is what will save us in the end.

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Success of the International Bankers -
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Posted by: hilly7 on Aug 16, 2008 10:09 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anybody that has studied history at all will see much of what is happening today, it has happened before. This time however, it will propel us closer to the ultimate goal. There is a film placed in many parts on Google (probably will not last long) that gives a quick picture to what is and has been a dream of a few, Wake Up Call - NWO. There are references to many great films one can learn from.

When one has more money that one can possibly spend, or generations to come can spend, what is left to be desired? Power and control. Thing of it is is that before this is over, many will be broke, many will die, and even more will wish for death. Ask another question, when all this pops, what are many 401ks, CDs, Pension Plans and more are tied to? This all hasn't been by flaw, it has been thought out, every detail, every counter.

It is not just here on failing economy, it is a global happening, and it ain't by accident. While many watch whatever show, sports, and other distractions, we have been slowly processed for one world government. There is a seperation between haves and have-nots, and the weeding will continue. Hint, hard work or loyalty will not entitle one to the have status, they consider it a birth right. If people wait until they are being loaded on box cars (already prepared), for camps, segregated not by color, religion, or any of the divisions they teach us to divide ourselves, rather by ability to conform and output of work- it will be too late. That is closer than one might think.

To Muse is to think. Placing an A in front of the word changes it to opposite. It is time we quit being Amused and start Musing for ourselves. OR - We can just be a product.

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Sensible Consumer
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Posted by: circanow on Aug 17, 2008 6:57 PM   
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I consider myself a sensible consumer. I do not have a credit card, and never have had one at the age of 58.

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» RE: Sensible Consumer Posted by: donl51

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Discount UGG Boots
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Posted by: qqNageli on Sep 7, 2008 7:29 PM   
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