COMMENTS: 84
Wall Street's Racket Has Gone Too Far, and We're Going to Pay the Heavy Price
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Those were the words that Fed chairman Ben Bernanke has used to describe the financial markets (and by extension, the economy) these heady spring days when everybody else with a rostrum, it seems, has pronounced the so-called liquidity crisis contained. There's a great wish for American finance to return to business-as-usual -- raking in fantastic fees for innovating new modes of tradable paper and engineering mergers and buyouts that generate huge fees plus $100 million kiss-offs for corporate CEOs in the noble struggle to dismantle America's productive capacity -- but apparently events are still out of hand.
The Federal Reserve itself has been instrumental in promoting abnormality by doing everything possible to prevent the work-out of bad debts in the system. Since money is loaned into existence, and loans are debts, the work-out of bad debt suggests the discovery that a lot of money has disappeared -- which is exactly the case. The Fed has postponed the work-out by sucking up truckloads of impaired, untradable securities in exchange for loans to giant banks that don't have enough cash on hand to pay their janitors.
Personally, my theory has been that the specter of peak oil pretty clearly implies the inability of industrial economies to continue producing real wealth in the customary way. In the face of this, either consciously or at a more mystical level, the worker bees in banking recognize that, in order to maintain their villas in the Hamptons, money has to be loaned into existence some other way (than in the service of industrial productivity).
We've tried just about everything else. There was the so-called service economy, an attempt to replace manufacturing with hamburger sales. Then there was the information economy, in which work would be replaced with knowing about stuff. Then there was the tech thing, which was about bringing internet companies that existed only on the back of cocktail napkins to the initial public offering stage of capitalization -- which allowed a few hundred or so 30-year-old smoothies to retire to vineyards in the Napa Valley while hundreds of thousands of retirees lost half the value of their investment portfolios. Then there was the housing boom, which was all about the creation of more suburban sprawl under the theory that houses (or "homes," in the jargon of the Realtors) represent an obvious sort of wealth, and therefore that using houses as collateral would allow humongous sums of money to be loaned into existence -- along with massive fees for structuring the loans into bundles of bond-like thingies.
This has all failed now because the racket went too far. Every possible candidate for a snookering got snookered. Too much collateral for which there were no takers went into the ground. The insane run-up in house values made a downward price movement inevitable, and as soon as the turnaround happened, it fell into the remorseless algebra of a deflationary death spiral. More importantly, however, this society ran out of tricks for loaning money into existence and instead began to experience the pain of money thought to be in existence being defaulted into a vapor -- and worse, these defaults led to logarithmic chains of money destruction in its places of origin, the investment banks that had created the racket.
The important part of this is that the money is gone. What makes matters truly eerie is that the "bubble" in suburban houses has occurred at exactly the moment in history when the chief enabling resource for suburban life -- oil -- has entered its scarcity stage.
The logical conclusion of all this is not what the American public wants to hear: We have become a much poorer society and are now faced with the unavoidable task of making major changes in how we live. All the three-card monte moves at the highest level of finance lately amount to an effort to avoid the unavoidable, acknowledging our losses. Certainly the political fallout of all this will be awesome. But it's not about politics, really. It's about the entire society's inability to form a workable new consensus of reality.
It's hard to predict how long these institutions at the heart of our economic system can linger in the "far from normal" limbo of pretending that money has not been defaulted out of existence. Since the same process is under way in Great Britain and Spain, places beyond the control of Bernanke, Secretary Henry Paulson and the Boyz on Wall Street, and since actions and reactions there will affect the destiny of money here, it’s hard to escape the conclusion that we're at most months away from the brutal recognition that Wall Street has managed to bankrupt itself (and, by extension, the United States). This is the dark heart of the matter of which no one dares speak.
Meantime, on the ground, every mook and minion in the land sees the gas pumps levitate beyond the $4 hash mark, and notes with bugged-out eyes the double-digit price stickers on common supermarket items, and feels the rush of blood from the extremities when some checkout clerk at Wal-Mart declares that a certain proffered credit card is maxed out, and some strangers in overalls -- the neighbors say -- managed to hot-wire the GMC Sierra in the driveway, and took it away ...
The candidates for president will have a lot to talk about. I wonder if they'll dare to.
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Posted by: Uriahz on May 22, 2008 12:23 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here we are, an economy 1.7 times greater in size than the one of 1970, and yet after adjusting for inflation, we are 10% poorer as individuals. And now we face the fallout of having our entire credit structure collapse out from under us, utterly crippling people's ability to acquire homes and build and improve businesses, ensuring a damn hard time digging ourselves out of this mess. It's gonna be a rough decade coming up, you can be assured of that. The Troubled Teens, we'll look back on.
And you know what? It's not hard to make a list of who's responsible. We know who's been profiting, or more properly, profiteering off this debacle. We know who benefits, and it's not the upper middle class any more than it's the rest of us.
I recommend we strip them of their assets. They stole it from the American People, and I don't give a damn if they did it legally or not at a time when dollars buy Senators. They are traitors to their people and should be dealt with as such.
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» Yes! Strip Their Assests!!!
Posted by: Gravitas
» Yes! Strip Their Assests!!!
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» Strip their assets, my ass! Eat the rich.
Posted by: thekidde
» RE: We have been scammed.
Posted by: wbblack
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mmckinl on May 22, 2008 12:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To add insult to injury all this is occurring as the Baby Boomers head for retirement and the most important commodity in the world, oil, has peaked, and with it any hope of pulling our way out of the quicksand of debt we find ourselves sinking in.
The Great Reckoning is upon us and if you think the politicians will tell us the truth do I have a NINJA Loan for you!
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» RE: Who Will Tell the People?
Posted by: obliu222
» RE: Who Will Tell the People?
Posted by: Von
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Posted by: Rune on May 22, 2008 12:57 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh, come on, Howard, have some faith in the all-American art of flim-flam economics. Tricks for loaning money is a renewable resource, is it not?
Why, I bet betcha there must be at least a few sharp finance MBAs working on a plan to inflate carbon credits into the next great bubble, even as I type this. Put together a quasi-governmental network of corporate interests, give yourself rights for a low, low ante, trade a few for kicks, then start the speculative futures market in those goodies while Biff and Skippy start bundling them into new and improved derivative based financial instruments and we got us a whole new round of liars poker to play!
I'm in! What's the margin?
Oh, and pass the cheese doodles, would ya? The line at the market dumpster was unreal, so I'm starvin'!
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Posted by: NoPCZone on May 22, 2008 2:47 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So we have a society full of personal, corporate and governmental debt. We have a generation about to retire with a declining and uninsured retirement portfolio in the face of heavy inflation of food and energy. We have an economy that makes few things of real value trapped in a debt bomb with a steadily declining currency. We have millions of families trapped 'upside down' into homes worth less than their mortgages would suggest.
On top of that we have, thanks to shortsighted and greedy tax cuts and rollbacks, a national infrastructure falling apart before our eyes due to a generation of neglect- starting with Jarvis' Prop 13 back in the 1970's and no tax base with which to raise the money needed to repair it.
The Emperor has no clothes, is broke, uneducated and ill-informed, over-weight, out of shape and past his prime. The Emperor is still largely deluded into thinking he is still the unrivaled master of all he surveys. The Emperor is the USA.
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» RE: Sadder Still
Posted by: kegbot1
» RE: Sadder Still
Posted by: Jefferson's Guardian
» RE: Sadder Still
Posted by: badkitty
» You may be a bigger chump
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Kevin Phillips also said the Unemployment figures were false which is an even bigger problem
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Sadder Still
Posted by: speakingout
» Sadder Still Are Your Stereotypes
Posted by: Gravitas
Comments are closed-
Posted by: xvictor on May 22, 2008 4:27 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Actually, the "prosperity" we had been experiencing was simply from debt and using homes as ATM machines to finance purchases, giving the illusion of the prosperity. I could run up my credit card debt and feel rich as well, but I'd feel stupid in the end, and justifiably so.
Ill-advised tax cuts, over-liquidity and running up debt: that pretty much sums up the economic policy of the last several years. God help us. God help us all.
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Posted by: keyinside on May 22, 2008 6:06 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These two sides of the same elitist coin have been screwing us for decades now.
Are you tired of it? Yes? Are you going to have the guts and integrity to stop voting for them?
The Green Party of the United States is the only political party that does not take special interest funding, and supports real, sustainable economics.
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» RE: The Progressive Democrats have started
Posted by: steven w
» RE: Stop being suckers
Posted by: dockboy
» RE: Stop being suckers-change gov't,if you can get in to do it.
Posted by: dockboy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: fifthworld on May 22, 2008 6:07 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh and the answer to his closing rhetorical question is "no" - Obama can't touch Wall St. - duhhhh.
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» I read the whole piece and found no hint of "zionism." Maybe you're using the term in a bigoted way
Posted by: yellow
» I'll "explain myself" this way....
Posted by: fifthworld
» He can't stay on Topic. He's too obsessed with his mad rage against Israel even when it's irrelevant
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Farasien on May 22, 2008 6:22 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where we go from here is the main question nobody seems to be asking lately. I don't know if its because people don't believe there will BE a future or laziness or fear that's stopping us, but we need to do it, and soon.
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» RE: The second great depression...
Posted by: Von
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Posted by: steven w on May 22, 2008 7:14 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I wish Senator Obama could read this
Posted by: jgilb
» Goldman Sachs has bought both Obama and Hillary
Posted by: ReallyBearish
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Posted by: yellow on May 22, 2008 7:54 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author also follows the observation of the 1970s era hollowing out of America's industrial base with a number of schemes for creating illusory wealth such as the dot.com craze, financial speculation, services and housing and equity bubbles. What in fact he is observing is the post-Fordist phenomenon of financialization. Industrial capitalism, based on rising middle class incomes and the production of consumer durables and housing and all the related services became burdened by overproduction and a falling profit rate. An increasingly skewed distribution of wealth led to low effective demand which lowered investment and slowed real GDP growth. Unable to continue profitably on the Fordist model, capitalists switched to financialization and the continued concentration and centralization of capital on a global basis. The problem is not to restore manufacturing. There is already several trillions of dollars of domestic manufacturing output produced annually in the US economy. The problem is that this output requires very little labor compared to years ago. The real option for recovery is massive public investment and progressive taxation.
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Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on May 22, 2008 8:07 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: kackermann on May 22, 2008 8:14 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In fact, the collapse of Wall Street kicks the legs out from every Republican ideal. They will all be liberals soon.
The New Deal came about from economic collapse. The New, New Deal will too.
The government is a contract between citizens for our common good. The well was poisoned when corporations were given the same rights as people.
The New, New Deal should strip that provision.
Is the government going serve the people, or does it want mob rule? Watch what happens when someone's child starts missing meals. You just watch what that parent will do.
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» RE: Cheer up!
Posted by: shinseiji
» Americans are weak, they won't do anything
Posted by: blogbooks
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Posted by: dockboy on May 22, 2008 8:59 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem is, "progressive" elements in our society and government have agreed to allow board members to ignore stockholders. But you don't care, because you'd rather buy computer games, beer, etc rather than save your money to invest for your retirement (which means becoming stockholders, rather directly or indirectly). You seem to think stockholders are just greedy bastards who deserve less than you, who would rather sit around an your asses, and just bitch & moan.
Make corporations and board members responsible to the stockholder again. When they're not protected from being voted off the board, they'll shape up and do their jobs.
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» RE: You Guys Kill Me
Posted by: badkitty
» RE: You Guys Kill Me
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: You Guys Kill Me
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: You Guys Kill Me
Posted by: dockboy
» RE: You Guys Kill Me
Posted by: radagast_23
» RE: You're right! about the stockholders anyway
Posted by: Beck
» Most Stockholders, who don't hold most of the stock, got screwed after 2001 by big CEO cash outs.
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: Von on May 22, 2008 10:26 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While they were buying up something real..something Tangible....we were seemingly appeased or kept happy or kept at bay on CREDIT or Federal Reserve Notes.
Just how much gold will this Federal Reserve Note get us if a day ever comes to go back to a gold standard? Not much.
The BANK'S lethal game they played on us by paper money and credit has reached it's final stages. Not only did this DOG chase it's own tail, IT'S NOW BEGAN TO DEVOUR ITSELF. The DOG ( the BANK ) applied a ploy as if it were Our Best Friend...........but it has turned rabid.
These governments..these weapons manufacturers..these 'do-gooders' in America and other countries seem to use their citizens as props to try to give themselves a 'right of existing' or a that they are doing something productive.
Imagine being at one of the Arms Bizarres where countries are seeing , inspecting and buying weapons. What kind of talk is going in in these Weapons Shows? " This baby here can avoid early radar detection and slip into a city with nobody suspecting anything until it's too late."
It's Madness
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» RE: Who Began Buying Up The Gold Decades Ago?
Posted by: witchjug
» RE: Who Began Buying Up The Gold Decades Ago?
Posted by: Von
» Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: Von
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: Von
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: Von
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: Von
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: Von
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: Von
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: Von
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on May 22, 2008 12:01 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
what lingers in my mind?
who the hell is polishing the Balls as the Wall comes down?
┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄
BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian
┄┄
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
┄┄
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄
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» this made more sense...
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
» RE: this made more sense...
Posted by: donnee
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Posted by: matthood on May 22, 2008 1:41 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: healinghawk on May 22, 2008 1:48 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on May 22, 2008 2:40 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
attention to the scandals - savings & loans, Abramoff, etc.? Do you think those are just the
fabrications of the "liberal media". Well here's a clue George W. Bush has never successfully run
a business, as the Gov. of Texas - that state had the highest teen pregnancy rate, a high rate of illiteracy, one of the lowest student aptitude scores, and the highest death penalty
rate, etc. The supposedly "liberal media" gave
him a pass. These were things no one ever questioned, so much for "liberal media" doing their jobs. But you people lapped it up. And yet you're surprised that we are now in the position that we are in as a country. You people have been voting against your pocketbook for the last 30 years, and yet you continue to buy into the lies of the "cultural issues", as these people are stealing us blind.
Forget the welfare queens, the biggest welfare
recipients are the corporations whose CEO's are
paid mega $$'s while stiffing the shareholders
and paying the rest of the employees a pittance.
Instead of blaming the immigrants for taking your "jobs" maybe you should look at how many people whose jobs have gone overseas. For the lies about who is "taking" your job exactly what
job are you talking about - from what I see the
immigrants are working construction jobs and many times they are stiffed on their paychecks,
they are the clean-up crews, they are picking the vegetables, and working in the fast-food industry - because as Americans some of us are
too good to work in those areas.
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» I voted for Bush in 2000 because...
Posted by: blogbooks
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Posted by: Cathyc on May 22, 2008 3:16 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
NB. I'm not saying I agree with everything Gore Vidal says, but its an interesting interview, nevertheless.
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Posted by: BlueGorilla on May 22, 2008 4:54 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The switching on of brains is, long overdue ,and comes,just as the whole system is creaking..
We used to beleive,that we needed a manufacturing base.This has been replaced,with non-productive,stockmarket lunacy.
The huckster's, con artist's and business guru's have been trusted with,our money.
Dracula, has literally, been left in charge of the bloodbank .
These Masters of the Universe told the world:
"hey,don't worry , you can do anything with numbers"
,and that
"the old rules don't apply anymore"
The discipline,of balanced budgets has been thrown out of the window.
This is the ethos of Enron..those lauded, modern alchemists,who were exposed as wearing the Emporer's new clothes.
Enron claimed,to have produced a miracle ,and were "The Economist"' magazines,most admired corporation for several years.
Even,so called heavyweights,who should have asked questions earlier,failed to do so.The problem is,that these people, bought into the mindset,and disengaged their brains.
If I was as bad,at my job,(nursing),i'd have been sacked years ago.Bloody amateurs.
Sadly, people brought it,because they were riding the gravy train.
Those masters of economics JM Keynes, and JK Galbraith,firmly warned against, those upstarts who claim to have divined, magical new economic theories,which render the essential rules redundant.
The greatest trick,the Bush Gang have perpetrated on America,is that it is somehow "Un-American"to ask questions"..
Keep nibbling the cheese,and turning the wheels you zombies.
But you aren't alone,here in the UK,people have borrowed,against their property,and maxed out on their card's,thinking that the good times will last forever.It's a global phenomenon,these days.
We can't say,that the warning signs weren't there. Enron was merely a symptom ,of this rottenness.Certainly the sub-prime disaster, bears the same hallmark of overreaching arrogance,and again..putting greed before discipline..I would guess,that there are a lot of frauds and misaccounting fiasco's waiting to be discovered.
Unrestrained capitalism has a tendency to eat itself,and everything in it's path.It is the id,and the id needs to be controlled.
The most successful capitalist societies,always had mechanisms of restraint.These societies..like Social democrat Sweden,or newly industrialised Germany,invested in a long term future..They put the money back,into new machinery,and high quality training.They also shared the fruits of success.
Sadly in the post-Reagan world,the markets,have become bigger than any government,and not answerable to the people..(or in the case of Bush..the government is merely the executive arm of the corporations).
This historically,unprecedented, concentration of corporate power in few hands,has eroded democracy.Now the lack of scrutiny, (as seen in the sub prime market for instance), lack of regulation,and ignorant acceptance of hogwash economics,have dragged us all to the brink of imminent depression.
The problem is ,that as recession bites deeper,many good people,will suffer,while the baddies will waltz into the sunset.
Conversely,this could be a time of opportunity..to increase democracy,and stop the market ruling us.We should never have allowed so much power,to be grasped by the unelected Murdoch's of the World.Wouldn't it be fantastic to grab,that power back.
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» Walls Come Tumbling Down-America ,like all christian societies ,is a nation of Motherless Children
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: durruti on May 22, 2008 8:51 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» The atomic bombs have been built and stored for 40 years. What have they to do with banking crisis?
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: Sojourner on May 22, 2008 10:55 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can look out my window and verify what Kunstler says about the concrete jungles and peak oil. But when it comes to Wall Street, if he does not add a time and date to his predictions, he is just shouting "boo."
Well, boo to you too. Stick to cosmetics and leave the serious stuff to those who already have their lives on the line trying to make it work.
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» "leave the serious stuff to those who already have their lives on the line trying to make it work."
Posted by: Democratic Socialist
» What I mean is, more bad advice does not correct earlier bad advice.
Posted by: Sojourner
» Good Point Sojourner. I'm Sure Kunstler gets filthy, stinking rich writing articles for Alternet!!
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: yellow on May 24, 2008 12:36 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The Chinese, The Japanese, The British, The Saudis, The Koreans will keep buying US Treasury Bonds!
Posted by: cgandpg
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Posted by: cgandpg on May 24, 2008 3:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Credit/Housing Bubbles burst only when UBS (Switzerland's $3Trillion Bank) got a bit concerned with the build-up of Billions of Mortgage Securities it had on its books, and decided to experiment by selling $100 Million on the Market to see what would happen. Guess what! The highly rated Mortgage Securities only fetched $50 Million! Ergo, the World-Wide Credit Crunch ensued from discovery of Mark to Market within a matter of days last August. (Remember only last July when Business Week and other U.S.magazines had celebratory covers: "The Economy is as Good as It Gets!") The warehoused bundles of securitized mortgages were stored in the dark, and only the growing early defaults shed light on the nature of these "science projects" which were totally untested.
The populace is still rather shell-shocked, despite the many "bottom-seeking" stories. as Kunstler pointed out. However, Richard Russell of the Dow Theory Letter, has turned bullish once again as he did last JULY, and even the Bookies in Las Vegas are now betting there will be no recession. Warren Buffett, the Oracle of Nabraska, says there's plenty of liquidity around, just the dumb money is gone. However, can there be a return of "happy days" when Housing is still in a freefall? Without the Bedroom ATMs, the average American is broke -- has only 19 days of reserves left. There are 28 Million Americans on Food Stamps, as was reported by London newspaper, the Independent, which ran a cover story showing New Yorkers in a long line waiting to receive help, with a caption over the bleak photograph, which read: "The American 'Greater Depression of 2008' ". My greatest concern which could trigger off a Panic could easily come from the $62 Trillion Credit Default Swaps, which caused Bear, Stearns demise. We haven't had a Panic since 1991. This next one, I believe, will be greater due to its global scale.
The BBC has recently accused the United States of being responsible for the massive starvation of 73 Million People in the 33 poorest countries due to artificially low interest rates to aid the insolvent banking system. This has made all Commodities go parabolic, making the main food source, rice, so unaffordable as well as unavailable, that people in Haiti and other poverty-stricken countries have resorted to eating Mud Pies just to fill their belly! A dire prediction by Dr. Robert Shiller of Yale, a favorite economist I resonate with, of the Case-Shiller Index, believes the FED will be forced to cut interest rates all the way to ZERO before the end of 2008, a la JAPAN style, as the economy worsens.
The prognosis for the United States economy hardly sounds all that promising when you get beyond the hype. I agree with Mr. Kunstler that Wall Street (and its Banksters) will be exposed for their unmitigated greed and total disregard of the consequences resulting from their unsavory actions.
We have been in a Financial Economy for over three decades. The SHADOW BANKING SYSTEM created from out of thin air Trillions of Dollars in ABCP "funny money" backed by the Subprime Slime Securitization, falsely rated Triple-A, which contaminated the rest of the world markets seeking yield through our junk mortgages. The recent $300 Billion Bailout for Homeowners (i.e., the insolvent banks, that is) will not work. Why not? Because 75% of these defaulting mortgages (according to Caroline Baum/ Bloomberg) are owned by Overseas Investors. Whatever the FED/Congress does will only make matters worse.
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Posted by: worksg1 on May 24, 2008 1:25 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The burning question is, how will the catastrophe unfold? Will we have deflation (scarcity of money) as in the Great Depression? Will we have a runaway inflation (worthless money) as Germany did in the 30s and Zimbabwe has now? Or will we try it Japanese style, by "discovering" the problem little by little and stretching the agony out over decades? However we do it, the poor and people depending on Social Security, Medicare and fixed incomes will suffer the most.
But let's try to remember that we did this to ourselves by living beyond our means. Fixing it will take many years. Let's not go the way of the Weimar Republic and elect a Hitler who promises a quick fix. There isn't any.
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Posted by: Von on May 24, 2008 11:39 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The US government IS already Bankrupt!
Posted by: cgandpg
» RE: The US government IS already Bankrupt!
Posted by: Von
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Uriahz on May 22, 2008 12:23 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here we are, an economy 1.7 times greater in size than the one of 1970, and yet after adjusting for inflation, we are 10% poorer as individuals. And now we face the fallout of having our entire credit structure collapse out from under us, utterly crippling people's ability to acquire homes and build and improve businesses, ensuring a damn hard time digging ourselves out of this mess. It's gonna be a rough decade coming up, you can be assured of that. The Troubled Teens, we'll look back on.
And you know what? It's not hard to make a list of who's responsible. We know who's been profiting, or more properly, profiteering off this debacle. We know who benefits, and it's not the upper middle class any more than it's the rest of us.
I recommend we strip them of their assets. They stole it from the American People, and I don't give a damn if they did it legally or not at a time when dollars buy Senators. They are traitors to their people and should be dealt with as such.
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» Yes! Strip Their Assests!!!
Posted by: Gravitas
» Yes! Strip Their Assests!!!
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» Strip their assets, my ass! Eat the rich.
Posted by: thekidde
» RE: We have been scammed.
Posted by: wbblack
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mmckinl on May 22, 2008 12:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To add insult to injury all this is occurring as the Baby Boomers head for retirement and the most important commodity in the world, oil, has peaked, and with it any hope of pulling our way out of the quicksand of debt we find ourselves sinking in.
The Great Reckoning is upon us and if you think the politicians will tell us the truth do I have a NINJA Loan for you!
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» RE: Who Will Tell the People?
Posted by: obliu222
» RE: Who Will Tell the People?
Posted by: Von
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Posted by: Rune on May 22, 2008 12:57 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh, come on, Howard, have some faith in the all-American art of flim-flam economics. Tricks for loaning money is a renewable resource, is it not?
Why, I bet betcha there must be at least a few sharp finance MBAs working on a plan to inflate carbon credits into the next great bubble, even as I type this. Put together a quasi-governmental network of corporate interests, give yourself rights for a low, low ante, trade a few for kicks, then start the speculative futures market in those goodies while Biff and Skippy start bundling them into new and improved derivative based financial instruments and we got us a whole new round of liars poker to play!
I'm in! What's the margin?
Oh, and pass the cheese doodles, would ya? The line at the market dumpster was unreal, so I'm starvin'!
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Posted by: NoPCZone on May 22, 2008 2:47 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So we have a society full of personal, corporate and governmental debt. We have a generation about to retire with a declining and uninsured retirement portfolio in the face of heavy inflation of food and energy. We have an economy that makes few things of real value trapped in a debt bomb with a steadily declining currency. We have millions of families trapped 'upside down' into homes worth less than their mortgages would suggest.
On top of that we have, thanks to shortsighted and greedy tax cuts and rollbacks, a national infrastructure falling apart before our eyes due to a generation of neglect- starting with Jarvis' Prop 13 back in the 1970's and no tax base with which to raise the money needed to repair it.
The Emperor has no clothes, is broke, uneducated and ill-informed, over-weight, out of shape and past his prime. The Emperor is still largely deluded into thinking he is still the unrivaled master of all he surveys. The Emperor is the USA.
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» RE: Sadder Still
Posted by: kegbot1
» RE: Sadder Still
Posted by: Jefferson's Guardian
» RE: Sadder Still
Posted by: badkitty
» You may be a bigger chump
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Kevin Phillips also said the Unemployment figures were false which is an even bigger problem
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Sadder Still
Posted by: speakingout
» Sadder Still Are Your Stereotypes
Posted by: Gravitas
Comments are closed-
Posted by: xvictor on May 22, 2008 4:27 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Actually, the "prosperity" we had been experiencing was simply from debt and using homes as ATM machines to finance purchases, giving the illusion of the prosperity. I could run up my credit card debt and feel rich as well, but I'd feel stupid in the end, and justifiably so.
Ill-advised tax cuts, over-liquidity and running up debt: that pretty much sums up the economic policy of the last several years. God help us. God help us all.
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Posted by: keyinside on May 22, 2008 6:06 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These two sides of the same elitist coin have been screwing us for decades now.
Are you tired of it? Yes? Are you going to have the guts and integrity to stop voting for them?
The Green Party of the United States is the only political party that does not take special interest funding, and supports real, sustainable economics.
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» RE: The Progressive Democrats have started
Posted by: steven w
» RE: Stop being suckers
Posted by: dockboy
» RE: Stop being suckers-change gov't,if you can get in to do it.
Posted by: dockboy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: fifthworld on May 22, 2008 6:07 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh and the answer to his closing rhetorical question is "no" - Obama can't touch Wall St. - duhhhh.
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» I read the whole piece and found no hint of "zionism." Maybe you're using the term in a bigoted way
Posted by: yellow
» I'll "explain myself" this way....
Posted by: fifthworld
» He can't stay on Topic. He's too obsessed with his mad rage against Israel even when it's irrelevant
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Farasien on May 22, 2008 6:22 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where we go from here is the main question nobody seems to be asking lately. I don't know if its because people don't believe there will BE a future or laziness or fear that's stopping us, but we need to do it, and soon.
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» RE: The second great depression...
Posted by: Von
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Posted by: steven w on May 22, 2008 7:14 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I wish Senator Obama could read this
Posted by: jgilb
» Goldman Sachs has bought both Obama and Hillary
Posted by: ReallyBearish
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Posted by: yellow on May 22, 2008 7:54 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author also follows the observation of the 1970s era hollowing out of America's industrial base with a number of schemes for creating illusory wealth such as the dot.com craze, financial speculation, services and housing and equity bubbles. What in fact he is observing is the post-Fordist phenomenon of financialization. Industrial capitalism, based on rising middle class incomes and the production of consumer durables and housing and all the related services became burdened by overproduction and a falling profit rate. An increasingly skewed distribution of wealth led to low effective demand which lowered investment and slowed real GDP growth. Unable to continue profitably on the Fordist model, capitalists switched to financialization and the continued concentration and centralization of capital on a global basis. The problem is not to restore manufacturing. There is already several trillions of dollars of domestic manufacturing output produced annually in the US economy. The problem is that this output requires very little labor compared to years ago. The real option for recovery is massive public investment and progressive taxation.
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Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on May 22, 2008 8:07 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: kackermann on May 22, 2008 8:14 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In fact, the collapse of Wall Street kicks the legs out from every Republican ideal. They will all be liberals soon.
The New Deal came about from economic collapse. The New, New Deal will too.
The government is a contract between citizens for our common good. The well was poisoned when corporations were given the same rights as people.
The New, New Deal should strip that provision.
Is the government going serve the people, or does it want mob rule? Watch what happens when someone's child starts missing meals. You just watch what that parent will do.
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» RE: Cheer up!
Posted by: shinseiji
» Americans are weak, they won't do anything
Posted by: blogbooks
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Posted by: dockboy on May 22, 2008 8:59 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem is, "progressive" elements in our society and government have agreed to allow board members to ignore stockholders. But you don't care, because you'd rather buy computer games, beer, etc rather than save your money to invest for your retirement (which means becoming stockholders, rather directly or indirectly). You seem to think stockholders are just greedy bastards who deserve less than you, who would rather sit around an your asses, and just bitch & moan.
Make corporations and board members responsible to the stockholder again. When they're not protected from being voted off the board, they'll shape up and do their jobs.
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» RE: You Guys Kill Me
Posted by: badkitty
» RE: You Guys Kill Me
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: You Guys Kill Me
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: You Guys Kill Me
Posted by: dockboy
» RE: You Guys Kill Me
Posted by: radagast_23
» RE: You're right! about the stockholders anyway
Posted by: Beck
» Most Stockholders, who don't hold most of the stock, got screwed after 2001 by big CEO cash outs.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Von on May 22, 2008 10:26 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While they were buying up something real..something Tangible....we were seemingly appeased or kept happy or kept at bay on CREDIT or Federal Reserve Notes.
Just how much gold will this Federal Reserve Note get us if a day ever comes to go back to a gold standard? Not much.
The BANK'S lethal game they played on us by paper money and credit has reached it's final stages. Not only did this DOG chase it's own tail, IT'S NOW BEGAN TO DEVOUR ITSELF. The DOG ( the BANK ) applied a ploy as if it were Our Best Friend...........but it has turned rabid.
These governments..these weapons manufacturers..these 'do-gooders' in America and other countries seem to use their citizens as props to try to give themselves a 'right of existing' or a that they are doing something productive.
Imagine being at one of the Arms Bizarres where countries are seeing , inspecting and buying weapons. What kind of talk is going in in these Weapons Shows? " This baby here can avoid early radar detection and slip into a city with nobody suspecting anything until it's too late."
It's Madness
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» RE: Who Began Buying Up The Gold Decades Ago?
Posted by: witchjug
» RE: Who Began Buying Up The Gold Decades Ago?
Posted by: Von
» Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: Von
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: Von
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: Von
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: Von
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: Von
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: Von
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Gold is not going to restore average living standards. Real income was actually higher in the 1970s.
Posted by: Von
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on May 22, 2008 12:01 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
what lingers in my mind?
who the hell is polishing the Balls as the Wall comes down?
┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄
BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian
┄┄
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
┄┄
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄
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» this made more sense...
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
» RE: this made more sense...
Posted by: donnee
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Posted by: matthood on May 22, 2008 1:41 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: healinghawk on May 22, 2008 1:48 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on May 22, 2008 2:40 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
attention to the scandals - savings & loans, Abramoff, etc.? Do you think those are just the
fabrications of the "liberal media". Well here's a clue George W. Bush has never successfully run
a business, as the Gov. of Texas - that state had the highest teen pregnancy rate, a high rate of illiteracy, one of the lowest student aptitude scores, and the highest death penalty
rate, etc. The supposedly "liberal media" gave
him a pass. These were things no one ever questioned, so much for "liberal media" doing their jobs. But you people lapped it up. And yet you're surprised that we are now in the position that we are in as a country. You people have been voting against your pocketbook for the last 30 years, and yet you continue to buy into the lies of the "cultural issues", as these people are stealing us blind.
Forget the welfare queens, the biggest welfare
recipients are the corporations whose CEO's are
paid mega $$'s while stiffing the shareholders
and paying the rest of the employees a pittance.
Instead of blaming the immigrants for taking your "jobs" maybe you should look at how many people whose jobs have gone overseas. For the lies about who is "taking" your job exactly what
job are you talking about - from what I see the
immigrants are working construction jobs and many times they are stiffed on their paychecks,
they are the clean-up crews, they are picking the vegetables, and working in the fast-food industry - because as Americans some of us are
too good to work in those areas.
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» I voted for Bush in 2000 because...
Posted by: blogbooks
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Posted by: Cathyc on May 22, 2008 3:16 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
NB. I'm not saying I agree with everything Gore Vidal says, but its an interesting interview, nevertheless.
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Posted by: BlueGorilla on May 22, 2008 4:54 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The switching on of brains is, long overdue ,and comes,just as the whole system is creaking..
We used to beleive,that we needed a manufacturing base.This has been replaced,with non-productive,stockmarket lunacy.
The huckster's, con artist's and business guru's have been trusted with,our money.
Dracula, has literally, been left in charge of the bloodbank .
These Masters of the Universe told the world:
"hey,don't worry , you can do anything with numbers"
,and that
"the old rules don't apply anymore"
The discipline,of balanced budgets has been thrown out of the window.
This is the ethos of Enron..those lauded, modern alchemists,who were exposed as wearing the Emporer's new clothes.
Enron claimed,to have produced a miracle ,and were "The Economist"' magazines,most admired corporation for several years.
Even,so called heavyweights,who should have asked questions earlier,failed to do so.The problem is,that these people, bought into the mindset,and disengaged their brains.
If I was as bad,at my job,(nursing),i'd have been sacked years ago.Bloody amateurs.
Sadly, people brought it,because they were riding the gravy train.
Those masters of economics JM Keynes, and JK Galbraith,firmly warned against, those upstarts who claim to have divined, magical new economic theories,which render the essential rules redundant.
The greatest trick,the Bush Gang have perpetrated on America,is that it is somehow "Un-American"to ask questions"..
Keep nibbling the cheese,and turning the wheels you zombies.
But you aren't alone,here in the UK,people have borrowed,against their property,and maxed out on their card's,thinking that the good times will last forever.It's a global phenomenon,these days.
We can't say,that the warning signs weren't there. Enron was merely a symptom ,of this rottenness.Certainly the sub-prime disaster, bears the same hallmark of overreaching arrogance,and again..putting greed before discipline..I would guess,that there are a lot of frauds and misaccounting fiasco's waiting to be discovered.
Unrestrained capitalism has a tendency to eat itself,and everything in it's path.It is the id,and the id needs to be controlled.
The most successful capitalist societies,always had mechanisms of restraint.These societies..like Social democrat Sweden,or newly industrialised Germany,invested in a long term future..They put the money back,into new machinery,and high quality training.They also shared the fruits of success.
Sadly in the post-Reagan world,the markets,have become bigger than any government,and not answerable to the people..(or in the case of Bush..the government is merely the executive arm of the corporations).
This historically,unprecedented, concentration of corporate power in few hands,has eroded democracy.Now the lack of scrutiny, (as seen in the sub prime market for instance), lack of regulation,and ignorant acceptance of hogwash economics,have dragged us all to the brink of imminent depression.
The problem is ,that as recession bites deeper,many good people,will suffer,while the baddies will waltz into the sunset.
Conversely,this could be a time of opportunity..to increase democracy,and stop the market ruling us.We should never have allowed so much power,to be grasped by the unelected Murdoch's of the World.Wouldn't it be fantastic to grab,that power back.
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» Walls Come Tumbling Down-America ,like all christian societies ,is a nation of Motherless Children
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: durruti on May 22, 2008 8:51 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» The atomic bombs have been built and stored for 40 years. What have they to do with banking crisis?
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: Sojourner on May 22, 2008 10:55 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can look out my window and verify what Kunstler says about the concrete jungles and peak oil. But when it comes to Wall Street, if he does not add a time and date to his predictions, he is just shouting "boo."
Well, boo to you too. Stick to cosmetics and leave the serious stuff to those who already have their lives on the line trying to make it work.
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» "leave the serious stuff to those who already have their lives on the line trying to make it work."
Posted by: Democratic Socialist
» What I mean is, more bad advice does not correct earlier bad advice.
Posted by: Sojourner
» Good Point Sojourner. I'm Sure Kunstler gets filthy, stinking rich writing articles for Alternet!!
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: yellow on May 24, 2008 12:36 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The Chinese, The Japanese, The British, The Saudis, The Koreans will keep buying US Treasury Bonds!
Posted by: cgandpg
Comments are closed-
Posted by: cgandpg on May 24, 2008 3:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Credit/Housing Bubbles burst only when UBS (Switzerland's $3Trillion Bank) got a bit concerned with the build-up of Billions of Mortgage Securities it had on its books, and decided to experiment by selling $100 Million on the Market to see what would happen. Guess what! The highly rated Mortgage Securities only fetched $50 Million! Ergo, the World-Wide Credit Crunch ensued from discovery of Mark to Market within a matter of days last August. (Remember only last July when Business Week and other U.S.magazines had celebratory covers: "The Economy is as Good as It Gets!") The warehoused bundles of securitized mortgages were stored in the dark, and only the growing early defaults shed light on the nature of these "science projects" which were totally untested.
The populace is still rather shell-shocked, despite the many "bottom-seeking" stories. as Kunstler pointed out. However, Richard Russell of the Dow Theory Letter, has turned bullish once again as he did last JULY, and even the Bookies in Las Vegas are now betting there will be no recession. Warren Buffett, the Oracle of Nabraska, says there's plenty of liquidity around, just the dumb money is gone. However, can there be a return of "happy days" when Housing is still in a freefall? Without the Bedroom ATMs, the average American is broke -- has only 19 days of reserves left. There are 28 Million Americans on Food Stamps, as was reported by London newspaper, the Independent, which ran a cover story showing New Yorkers in a long line waiting to receive help, with a caption over the bleak photograph, which read: "The American 'Greater Depression of 2008' ". My greatest concern which could trigger off a Panic could easily come from the $62 Trillion Credit Default Swaps, which caused Bear, Stearns demise. We haven't had a Panic since 1991. This next one, I believe, will be greater due to its global scale.
The BBC has recently accused the United States of being responsible for the massive starvation of 73 Million People in the 33 poorest countries due to artificially low interest rates to aid the insolvent banking system. This has made all Commodities go parabolic, making the main food source, rice, so unaffordable as well as unavailable, that people in Haiti and other poverty-stricken countries have resorted to eating Mud Pies just to fill their belly! A dire prediction by Dr. Robert Shiller of Yale, a favorite economist I resonate with, of the Case-Shiller Index, believes the FED will be forced to cut interest rates all the way to ZERO before the end of 2008, a la JAPAN style, as the economy worsens.
The prognosis for the United States economy hardly sounds all that promising when you get beyond the hype. I agree with Mr. Kunstler that Wall Street (and its Banksters) will be exposed for their unmitigated greed and total disregard of the consequences resulting from their unsavory actions.
We have been in a Financial Economy for over three decades. The SHADOW BANKING SYSTEM created from out of thin air Trillions of Dollars in ABCP "funny money" backed by the Subprime Slime Securitization, falsely rated Triple-A, which contaminated the rest of the world markets seeking yield through our junk mortgages. The recent $300 Billion Bailout for Homeowners (i.e., the insolvent banks, that is) will not work. Why not? Because 75% of these defaulting mortgages (according to Caroline Baum/ Bloomberg) are owned by Overseas Investors. Whatever the FED/Congress does will only make matters worse.
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Posted by: worksg1 on May 24, 2008 1:25 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The burning question is, how will the catastrophe unfold? Will we have deflation (scarcity of money) as in the Great Depression? Will we have a runaway inflation (worthless money) as Germany did in the 30s and Zimbabwe has now? Or will we try it Japanese style, by "discovering" the problem little by little and stretching the agony out over decades? However we do it, the poor and people depending on Social Security, Medicare and fixed incomes will suffer the most.
But let's try to remember that we did this to ourselves by living beyond our means. Fixing it will take many years. Let's not go the way of the Weimar Republic and elect a Hitler who promises a quick fix. There isn't any.
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Posted by: Von on May 24, 2008 11:39 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The US government IS already Bankrupt!
Posted by: cgandpg
» RE: The US government IS already Bankrupt!
Posted by: Von
Tax the Corporations and the Rich or Take Draconian Cuts -- the Decision Is Ours
Home Underwater? Walk Away from Geithner's Perverse 'Homeowner Relief' Plan
Fury at Wall St. Banks Fuels Public Action for Move Your Money Campaign




