COMMENTS: 137
The Myths and Harsh Effects of Bush's Economic Class War
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The causes of that recession are vague and amorphous, generally credited to the "business cycle."
There is, in addition, a minor Republican industry dedicated to backdating the onset by five months, to November 2000, in order to make it a Clinton recession. Or, to inadvertently say that the very election of George Bush screwed up the economy; he didn't even have to come to power.
Bush came in with a plan for tax cuts. Originally, that was based on the government having a surplus, and it was packaged as giving people their own money back. When the surplus disappeared, due to the recession and the tax cuts, he kept pushing the tax cuts as a jobs and stimulus package. The economy went into "recovery" by 2003.
The administration claimed that the recovery was due to the tax cuts. It was an odd and rather limp recovery. Indeed, it was a mysterious one and the mystery was that the United States was still losing jobs. This was considered inexplicable.
The administration claimed that the weakness in the economy was due to 9/11 and being in a war. The very same people who used that story would have been the first to say that Roosevelt and the New Deal did not bring the United States out of the Depression, it was World War II that did it. Historically, wars have produced booms. But their war was somehow different.
Nonetheless, the five years from 2003 to 2007 are now routinely described as having been a "boom," a time of "robust" growth, low inflation, and low unemployment. Now we are in, or facing, a recession.
This recession was brought about by a specific overexpansion, the "subprime lending bubble."
This has caused turmoil in the credit markets.
The cure is a "stimulus package." It consists of two parts. Low interest rates and giving cash out to every American, in the hopes that we will "consume" our way out of trouble. It's hard to tell how much anyone believes this will work, but Republicans and Democrats have all signed on, no one is saying it's nonsense or pointing out the obvious -- that's the horse that brought us here. Here's the reality.
The recession of 2001 never ended.
At least not for ordinary Americans.
Ordinary Americans found that their income was declining. From 2001 to 2007, median family income declined -- depending on where you get your figures from -- by somewhere between $500 and $1,000. Median individual income went down by at least $1,000.
The yearly average number of new private sector jobs created from 2001-2008 was just 369,000, not even keeping up with the growth in population. It should be compared to the average number of new private sector jobs created from '92 to 2,000: 1,760,000 per year.
The number of people in manufacturing jobs decreased by over 3 million.
The number who got healthcare at work went down, from 64.2 million to 59.7 million. The number of people without healthcare went up from 38.4 to 46.9 million.
The number of people in poverty increased from 31.6 million to 36.5 million.
The value of America's businesses, at least as measured by the stock market, did not go up. An astonishing thing in what was called a boom. Meantime, the cost of living went up.
Home heating oil went up about 150 percent. Gas at the pump at least doubled. The cost of health insurance went up about 50 percent. The cost of college went up about 30 percent. Now food is going up. How can the myth and the reality be so different?
Part of it is the standard theology and story telling about free markets and America always being No. 1 and the envy of the world. Add to that the great grasp of media manipulation on the part of the administration, the herd mentality in politics, the media even, and especially among economists.
The key fact is this: During the Bush administration the U.S. economy "grew" by 37 percent. Give or take, plus or minus, but something around there
What has been ignored is what that growth consists of. And even more, what it cost.
The middle class has shrunk and is less well off. So the growth isn't there.
The stock market is flat, so it's not in business. Manufacturing jobs have been dramatically reduced, so it's not there.
The "growth" in the U.S. economy is a bubble. It consists entirely of debt. Can it be true that the growth in the U.S. economy in the last seven years, such as it is, consists entirely of debt?
Here are the numbers:
The U.S. economy grew by about $4 trillion.
-- The national debt in Jan. 2008: $9.2 trillion
-- The national debt in 2001: $5.7 trillion
An increase of $3.5 trillion
-- Total consumer credit debt in 2008: $12.8 trillion
-- Total consumer credit debt in 2001: $7.65 trillion
An increase of $5.25 trillion
In the course of achieving growth of $4 trillion, we took on $8.75 trillion in debt, combining what we owe as a nation and as individuals.
Since we have nothing to show for it, it's the worst single investment in world history. Is debt innately evil?
No.
There are lots of good reasons to take on debt. But the national choices should be made on roughly the same basis as taking on personal debt. If you can pay as you go, it's cheaper.
But sometimes there are emergencies. If something is vital, like saving your child's life, even when you don't have health insurance, you will hock whatever you can. When the nation is attacked, we normally spend what we have, plus what we can raise with taxes, and then borrow more, for the national defense.
It also makes sense to borrow to do something profitable -- start, expand or improve a business. The government equivalent is building infrastructure. Roads, education, communications, criminal justice and court systems, all facilitate commerce and generate more business, which ultimately creates new tax revenue.
Sometime you borrow to buy something that's worth the extra cost of paying interest, either because of it's utility, like a car, or because you expect it to appreciate more than the interest you pay, like a house.
Nowadays, governments routinely borrow to jump-start or stimulate economies.
That idea started during the Great Depression. It's generally credited to John Maynard Keynes and is exemplified in many of the New Deal experiments. As originally conceived, it was trickle up, or ideally, multiply up economics. If you put the unemployed to work, they would spend their income on housing, food and other necessities. That would go to shopkeepers, service people, property owners, farmers and the manufacturers of the goods they all bought. At each step there would be tax revenue so the deficits would ultimately pay for themselves.
Then along came the trickle-down people.
They believed that if rich people had more money, they would invest it in businesses, creating more employment that would produce more things, that people would flock to buy, which would, likewise, create more tax revenue.
The problem is that it doesn't work. If there was a real shortage of investment capital, it might work, but in a generally balanced economy it doesn't. It didn't work under Reagan or Bush the Elder. They each saw it fail and retreated from it.
It doesn't work because rich people with extra money do not say, "Ah hah! I have an extra hundred grand, I'll open a grocery store!" They toss it in whatever market is handy or buy a second, third or fourth home.
On the other hand, if there are lots of working people with some extra money, because they have good jobs, or because they have any jobs at all, you can bet your social security that someone will come along to sell them something. And the more they have, the more businesspeople will pop up to seize the opportunity, no matter how much they have to pay in taxes to do so. They will bribe, smuggle, go into war zones to make a profit.
Here's what happened in Bush the Lesser's experiment.
The government pumped out lots of money by increased spending, much of it going to the military-industrial complex, the pharmaceutical and insurance industry, and, of course, a special big chunk on the wars.
It also cut taxes. Mostly for the very rich. So rich people suddenly had lots of money on hand. They didn't go out and open new businesses, they simply sold the money. That is, they put it in "the financial sector," banks, investment companies, brokerages, insurance companies, real estate funds, hedge funds and the like.
The financial sector suddenly had an influx of money. So it went out and sold it. That is, it went out aggressively to make loans, both to businesses and consumers. The government was hand in glove with it, keeping interest rates low and deregulating or signoring regulations.
There was a real estate bubble. That should have been a warning sign. Real estate is a passive investment. It is a signal that there is a lot of money around with no productive place to go. No businesses expanding. No hot new industries. No genuine growth.
The real estate bubble is now routinely described as the root of our current economic problems.
That's not true. It's merely a symptom.
The problem is that the government, the nation and the individuals in our country have all taken on massive amounts of new debt. Without investing it in anything productive. Even our conquests of Afghanistan and Iraq are not profitable (except for specific war profiteers); they are drains, endlessly creating more debts. Debts that are, bizarrely, kept off the books, the way Enron used to do it, or more pertinently, the way George Bush used to do it when he was at Harken Energy.
This is quite accurately reflected in the fall of the dollar against such currencies as the Euro. The dollar is now worth one-third less than it was in 2001, pretty much the size of the bubble, one third of the economy.
It is also the primary cause of half of the increase in the price of oil. Since oil is priced in dollars, oil producers have had to raise their prices by 50 percent just to keep even. As our energy policy has been to just keep using oil, that makes the problem self-perpetuating, sending more and more money out of the country.
Here's another statistic to make things scarier still: Amount more Americans earned than spent in 2001: +2.3 percent Amount less Americans are earning than spending in 2008: -0.5 percent ("State of the Union 2008: By the Numbers," Reuters, 1/28/2008, the source of many of the statistics included here.) The beat goes on.
The solutions that have been proposed so far are more of what has created the problem.
A check sent to every American, paid for by ... debt. Support for failing financial institutions and for defaulting mortgage holders, paid for by ... debt. Artificially low interest rates, so there will be more lending, creating more debt. All to keep the big bubble from bursting. All in the service of denying the big bubble is actually a bubble.
If America is going to get out of this, we will probably have to do it the old fashioned way, work for it. The way to encourage work, is to make doing business -- making things, inventing things, providing services -- more attractive and profitable than simply lending money.
Credit that's too easy to get encourages careless and wasteful choices among consumers, bankers and business people. Just as it results in subprime mortgages, it results in the sort of corporate takeovers, financed by hedge funds and big banks, that require downsizing, selling off the assets, snatching the profits and leaving a bankrupt wasteland behind.
Fixing it requires raising taxes to pay off the government debts. Cutting military spending, the bloated excesses in the name of the War on Terror and ending the war in Iraq, will help immensely. But good luck in getting that done. Until, as Osama bin Laden planned, we go bankrupt from those wars just as the Soviet Union did from its Afghan war.
It also requires sensible investment by the government, in the sort of infrastructure that will create business that takes place here, in the United States.
More than any of that, it requires a new intellectual and moral standard. One that raises up reality at least to the status of the myths.
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Posted by: mmckinl on Apr 28, 2008 1:03 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All the groups mentioned have been fully euthanized to any facts or knowledge inconvenient for the Oligarchy. These groups are all on board with the propaganda with a few well known exceptions.
Then there is the financial sector that ran wild with Greenspan spiking the "Punch Bowl" with 1% interest rates while handing out the Xtasy of non regulation for trillion dollar derivatives markets run by the banks we the taxpayer back with our guaranteed deposits.
The author fails to mention our 800 billion dollar trade deficit that can only be remedied by tariffs. The fallacy of strategy there is that the falling dollar will cure this "imbalance" while importers manipulate their currencies, dump product, subsidize production, allow extreme pollution and use slave labor.
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» RE: Overall a Good Comment .... but
Posted by: gazooks
» RE: Overall a Good Comment .... but
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Overall a Good Comment .... but
Posted by: hiryuu75
» RE: That My Friend is a Very Good Qestion
Posted by: edgar_michel
» RE: Overall a Good Article .... but
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Overall a Good Article .... but
Posted by: Bobby Decker
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Posted by: AlexLawyer on Apr 28, 2008 1:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hillary Clinton is neocon lite. She plays the same game, downing beer and whisky to prove her solidarity with the working classes who languished under her husband and were brutalized by Wal-Mart when she was on its board.
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» RE: Akrasia--Acting Contrary to Self-Interest
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Akrasia--Acting Contrary to Self-Interest
Posted by: joe2171
» RE: Akrasia--Acting Contrary to Self-Interest
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: AlexLawyer
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: AlexLawyer
Posted by: Hovey
» 2 Kinds of Republicans
Posted by: Badger1492
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Posted by: Veros on Apr 28, 2008 2:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Freedom is not free, freedom requires responsibility. We are losing our freedom.
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» RE: Corruption stifles growth
Posted by: donnee
» RE: Corruption stifles growth
Posted by: ChairmanMetal
» bingo!
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: "Tricklism"
Posted by: editnetwork
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Posted by: flymulla on Apr 28, 2008 3:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of all the facts, I have in front of me I choose this one. When the building is constructed there are many hands working simultaneously to make sure that the residents who come to pay rent have the comfort of the rent paid. If there is pipe leak, the plumber is the right man. If my fridge gives me odour, call the electrician. If I have leaking roof I do no go to astrologer, I tell the proprietor of this. Alternatively, I repair and knock the amount paid from the rent. I can go to someone. All work in harmony if they want me to stay or they lose the tenancy. To draw a bigger picture we have the ministers who are running the country. If one is away, another does the work. This does not stop. The president came to me asking for the sell of the house. He was paid and he now looks after my house or he has some one who does this. Remove any, I scream loud. All told, I go to the president if the screw and bolts are lose. If he does not listen, I say, please pack up, we had enough from you. Make way for the new one. What he does, we will decide later, but for now, you go.”
The way I see the economy, Mr. Bush is going. No. I have nothing against anyone. I want the economy to come back to the kevel it was. If there is some one who can fix this, Mr. Bush had it all wrong. Why do we need fixing this now? We had good times. Why do we swim in the water with the sharks and that too no help from any one?
I thank you
Firozali A. Mulla MBA PhD
P.O.Box 6044
Dar-Es-Salaam
Tanzania
East Africa
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Posted by: socialpsych on Apr 28, 2008 3:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» There was a recession and it was the one thing Bush wasn't responsible for.
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» RE: There was a recession and it was the one thing Bush wasn't responsible for.
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: There was a recession and it was the one thing Bush wasn't responsible for.
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» RE: Greenspan intentionally caused the 2001 recession to put Bush in office
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» The dotcom bust was a recession for the investment class.
Posted by: andabottleof_rum
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Posted by: chrysalis124812 on Apr 28, 2008 5:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We be the grown-ups now.
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Posted by: williameon on Apr 28, 2008 6:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gas $4 a Gallon
Higher Taxes
Less Education
No Health Care
Homelessness
A Chimp Dictator and
A Hand Puppet Government
Media consolidation
Open Scorn and Disdain shown by
The Chimp/ Dead Eye & FAUX Media towards
America and The Rule of Law.
911
Spying
Lying
Torture
Pollution
Propaganda
Poverty
The Iraq WAR
12,000+ US Dead
50,000 Wounded
300,000+ Scared for Life
Broken families
Lost jobs
Lost wages
The Falling Dollar
A Ten Million times a Million-
Ten Trillion Dollar Debt.
One Million DEAD Civilians
Four Million refugees
Homes destroyed
Families blown apart
Thousands of tons of Depleted Uranium.
Holy Nuclear Waste BAT-MAN
Is this the answer to their waste Disposal Problem?
Killing Two Ducks with every round?
The ones shooting and the ones receiving the rounds.
Iraq leveled
Afghanistan leveled
While America’s infrastructure disintegrates
Crappy roads
Decrepit schools
Brooklyn Bridge is Falling Down
A Black Army there
And The Dark Army here
Fences
Concentration Camps
CIA
NSA
FBI
Pollution
Global Warming
Katrina
One catastrophe after another!
Add your own!!!!!!
How much can the American People take?
They are sick of this WAR! and
They are afraid of what is in store for them next!
Everyone is on pins and needles!
The Consumerism Dream is over.
Now it has turned into a NIGHTMARE!
Sink or swim?
It is your turn now!
They have run out of victims.
Everyone else is gone.
The Bullhorns announce
Thanks for waiting in line
Like so many Sheep in our pens
Run The Corpirate Gauntlet
As fast as you can.
Go down the long Chute/Shoot and
Wait for the hammer/next-shoe to fall.
General Betray-U.S. has been promoted
To lead the assault
On reason.
Let’s start up another
Start up another
FU-KING WAR!
Beware
The Next
False Flag Operation.
A Blue City
Mission Admonished II
BANG!
Dead Eye likes shooting fish in a barrel!
There’s more innocence to Slaughter
Coffins to build and
Graves to fill.
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» RE: Are you better off then you were 8 years ago?
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Not me.
Posted by: thekidde
» RE: Not me.
Posted by: Kitty Lady Oregon
» Let's face it, folks
Posted by: willymack
» RE: Are you better off then you were 8 years ago?
Posted by: Enkidu Nwyvre
» RE: Are you better off then you were 8 years ago?
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Are you better off then you were 8 years ago?
Posted by: joe2171
» RE: Are you better off then you were 8 years ago?
Posted by: Spot
» RE: Are you better off then you were 8 years ago?
Posted by: YuvbinDuped
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Posted by: Liberty G on Apr 28, 2008 6:45 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Liberty G on Apr 28, 2008 6:45 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: xcellent Summary
Posted by: Jonnan
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Posted by: goldengrain on Apr 28, 2008 6:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After the Great Depression, around 1930, Congress passed two acts of the same names to ensure this would never happen again - The Glass-Steagall Act.
It was to prevent financial institutions in the US from making risky investments. Over many administrations it was whittled away at until finally, with King George, it was totally done away with.
No more Act meant our banks could invest in bad mortgages, which they did. The failure of these mortgages has caused problems with banking around the world.
Do we ever learn from history?
Why did not the media tell us about this?
Why do these very institutions get a bail out and the people flounder?
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» congress during the last year of the clinton administration repealed glass-steagall
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: congress during the last year of the clinton administration repealed glass-steagall
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: congress during the last year of the clinton administration repealed glass-steagall
Posted by: Kitty Lady Oregon
» RE: congress during the last year of the clinton administration repealed glass-steagall
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: conomic Collapse Due to Repeat of Glass-Steagall
Posted by: buzzsaw
» RE: conomic Collapse Due to Repeat of Glass-Steagall
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: conomic Collapse Due to Repeat of Glass-Steagall
Posted by: Von
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Posted by: peacekeepertwo on Apr 28, 2008 7:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» we can discuss till we're blue in the face
Posted by: e rice
» RE: we can discuss till we're blue in the face
Posted by: aji
» RE: It's time to Begin the discussion on how to fix this.
Posted by: Spot
» RE: It's time to Begin the discussion on how to fix this.
Posted by: pangea
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Posted by: daw13 on Apr 28, 2008 8:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This locale includes one of the enclaves of the upper-class. Those to whom the rest of us are basically… well, pissants. In my dream this mass of nicely dressed, scrubbed and groomed young citizens arrived from many directions in a caravan of busses. They debussed in an orderly manner and waltzed into Westchester County. Tucked under each of their arms was – no, not a Gideon Bible, but a copy of Howard Zinn’s A People’s History of the United States.
Before Westchester police realized what was happening, the first wave spread out and began knocking on doors. To every upper-class local under thirty they offered a People’s History and a little speech. About what a shame it was that their parents deliberately empowered a president dedicated to trashing ordinary citizens, so that upper-class families could remain comfortable as the country faced various crises. Crises the upper-class had caused and that might logically make ordinary citizens mad at them. Citizens not very different from themselves as people. Wouldn’t it be better if upper-class elders would consider reaching out to their fellow citizens with a little decency, the visitors asked?
Many young Westchestrians were rather moved, in my dream. In spite of having been carefully and diligently socialized concerning the despicableness of ordinary citizens (pissants), they had not had a chance yet to behave really cruelly toward them. They were still dependent on their elders to lie, repress and persecute in order to maintain oligarchy behind a façade of justice and fairness. Actually, young Westchesterians were fairly innocent. Consequently, they still possessed some empathy and compassion for people they felt kinship with -- in spite of the training they had received. Some, in fact, felt so empathetic that they joined the visitors striding from door to door armed only with Zinn.
Before long, hordes of police arrived and begin bashing heads and breaking ribs, leaving rich people’s lawns all bloody. Young upper-class men and women watched this mayhem more in horror than with approval, to their parents’ deep chagrin. Bruised and battered visitors kept talking and offering Zinns --even while being dragged by the hair to waiting police vans -- as a second wave of visitors debussed. The now prepared police intercepted many, but the more they intercepted the more arrived.
On and on it went, in my dream, from dawn to dusk, day after day. Upper-class elders grew concerned. Those who formed the core and majority of the nation’s Power Elite met in churches and mansions and clubs to discuss a potential social control crisis. Was it possible any longer to ensure that pissant oppression, repression and if need be extermination could be guaranteed to occur only outside of the boundaries of upper-class enclaves? Must they now physically enfortress themselves? What would this mean? How would their families feel? Life wouldn’t be fun anymore.
They decided, at length, that the current situation was unacceptable. This was NOT the way things were supposed to be. Soon the incumbent president, whom they regarded as a factotum, began receiving angry phone calls and visitors, telling him to DO SOMETHING!
But the only something the Incumbent knew how to do was break heads, incarcerate and torture. Unfortunately, these techniques did not work well to deal with a mass of citizens who were not an angry, violent mob. But who WERE extremely well organized and ready to suffer a good deal in order to educate the people of Westchester County that whatever happened in the U.S.A. would happen to all.
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» i'll have what you're having
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» Pitchforks and torches, storm the "gated" communities, eat the rich.
Posted by: thekidde
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Posted by: modeler on Apr 28, 2008 8:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: ussia went bust
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 28, 2008 8:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is the Dow Jones index? The share value of the following corporations:
Altria Group, Incorporated
Intel Corp.
Aluminum Co. Of America
International Business Machines Corp.
American Express Company
J.P. Morgan Chase & Co.
American International Group, Inc.
Johnson & Johnson
Boeing Co.
McDonald's Corp.
Caterpillar Inc.
Merck & Company, Inc.
Citigroup, Inc.
Microsoft Corp.
Coca-Cola Co.
Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing Co.
DuPont Co.
Pfizer, Inc.
Exxon Mobile Corp.
Proctor & Gamble Co.
General Electric Co.
SBC Communications, Inc.
General Motors Corp.
United Technologies Corp.
Hewlett-Packard Co.
Verizon Communications, Inc.
The Home Depot, Inc.
Wal-Mart Stores Inc.
Honeywell International, Inc.
Walt Disney Co.
The actual ownership of these corporations is even more consolidated, and includes institutional shareholders, i.e. banks, and various funds, which themselves are just holding companies that funnel dividends to a small number of billionaire clients.
When these corporations fire employees and move manufacturing to China, their share value goes up. War, environmental degradation, the use of cheap slave labor - all are very profitable, and that's what the CEOs and shareholders want to be able to use. Shareholders at the largest corporations (Chevron, etc.) routinely vote down any dissent over the environment or human rights - they love Exxon's CEO and his business and PR practices, really.
The net effect of this system is that most real decisions in our country are made by politicians and government officials who are entirely owned by various members of this "corporatocracy" or "plutocracy" or "oligarchy". This has also resulted in the growth of aristocratic mentality (witness the cancellation of the estate tax) - Clinton, for example, is probably outraged that the peasants didn't all jump on her train - yes, this is a growing cultural phenomenon.
Indeed, this is really the role that modern economics plays. It provides a system which equates "healthy and good" with the fortunes of the wealthiest people on the planet. If Bill Gates is getting richer, we all are! It's complete propaganda, but amazingly large numbers of people have bought into it - because it is the main propaganda line put out by all media outlets in the U.S.
Seriously - the last of the honest economists were Adam Smith and David Ricardo. A major exception is Joseph Stiglitz - but he's made a career out of showing that modern economic theory is full of holes.
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» For Alterneters who think I'm sucking up to you, TC -- I'm NOT but gave you a "5" anyway.
Posted by: HughScott
» Can't you go post on ABC's web site or something?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Can't you go post on ABC's web site or something?
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Media propaganda becomes very lockstep on economic issues.
Posted by: Spot
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Apr 28, 2008 8:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Virtually everything the "fiscal conservatives" have done since Ronald Regan have taken us closer to that kind of system. Trickle down economics means the rich guy pisses and what trickles down his leg the poor folk get to fight over!
But they make it sound like their brand of economics is good for the little guy so you have all these blue color folks thinking republicans will help the economy. ANOTHER LIE FOLKS!!!!!!
All my luv and affection,
Grandma Crabby
VideoProductionTips = Learn Internet Video
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» How do they sell it to the common folk?
Posted by: arieden
» RE: How do they sell it to the common folk?
Posted by: yale
» RE: Serfdom
Posted by: Spot
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Posted by: RON_KING on Apr 28, 2008 8:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The main problem with the Republican plan is that while taxes were lowered the benefit of that lowering was only felt by a few. The majority of even conservative voters saw no benefit.
The trouble with "trickle down" economics is that by the time it gets to the bottom it is just that; a mere trickle and of no benefit.
"Trickle up" economics, like the gentle rain that starts in the mountains, by the time it gathers in the rivers it becomes a great flood.
By impoverishing the nation, the wealthy are shooting themselves in both feet. A nation with no money to spend cannot support the businesses that make the wealthy rich. A strong middle class, and even a less needy poor class, builds business faster than even the most greedy of wealth accumulators could wish.
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» RE: conomics 101
Posted by: CatDad
» Tinpot dictatorships are on the rise, however.
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
Comments are closed-
Posted by: JohnJlws on Apr 28, 2008 8:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Farrakhan's endorsement
Wright right or wrong
Lapel pins or not
Hand over heart or not
Muslim or not
Snipers (although bold-faced lying is a bigger deal)
Bill's latest racial remark
Yep, we're on the right tract and we know where we're going now. We are becoming, or for all intents have become, a third world nation and our MSM spoon feeds us "issues" one could equate to a dog taking a dump in the road.
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» RE: And we're talking about
Posted by: Spot
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Posted by: HughScott on Apr 28, 2008 8:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» LOL!
Posted by: WhatNow?
» RE: LOL!
Posted by: willymack
» Hugh, give it up, OK?
Posted by: JimmyVaughan
» and the voice of reason
Posted by: e rice
» Give it up, you say. Give WHAT up -- my freedom of speech?
Posted by: HughScott
» Your alleged "freedom of speech" is not the issue, Hugh.
Posted by: JimmyVaughan
» RE: Your alleged "freedom of speech" is not the issue, Hugh.
Posted by: JimmyVaughan
» Now boyz, no one is disputing the facts
Posted by: jwg
» RE: Obama's AVERAGE contribution is less than 100 bucks - he has over 1 million donors
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: Your alleged "freedom of speech" is not the issue, Hugh.
Posted by: Spot
» RE: Hugh, give it up, OK?
Posted by: Hovey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: particle61 on Apr 28, 2008 8:50 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
published by the editors of redstateupdate.net
funny, frightening, free since 2005
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Posted by: Elmo409 on Apr 28, 2008 9:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As time went by, the United Auto Workers and the automobile manufacturers recognized that what was good for the workers was good for the company. It was also good for the steel industry because the auto manufacturers needed steel to make autos and steelworkers who made enough money to buy cars and trucks increased the demand for cars, and trucks and steel.
Then some twerp of an MBA discovered that by using imported steel, and pushing wages down, and cutting costs and not lowering the prices resulted in more profits for the stockholders and bigger bonuses for the twerp MBA. And so we cut, and we cut, and we cut until there was nothing left to cut. The workers had no money to spend, the steel industry was dead, and the auto industry was very sick and getting sicker. But the managers and the stockholders had bigger houses, and boats, and played golf, and contributed to politicians, and so on and so on.
Money does not trickle down.
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» Dont tout Henry Ford.
Posted by: WhatNow?
» Re: Ford, didn't he grow a whole bunch of HEMP?
Posted by: Inlander
» RE: Dont tout Henry Ford.
Posted by: Spot
Comments are closed-
Posted by: WhatNow? on Apr 28, 2008 9:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My improved situation has nothing to do with bush but with things like conservation, investing in tools, and being much more careful in who I would associate. I also learned under clinton's regime that I could never underestimate how stupid or cruel people could be. Prior to that I didn't believe people could or would do some of the things I saw them do.
I always despised clinton but no more than his two predecessors and his only redeeming aspect to me is he was better than bush II. That's not saying much for clinton though.
Last but not least, if the 1990's had not been so bad for me I'd be in much better shape now.
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» RE: Recession since 2001?
Posted by: Artkansas
» RE: ecession since 2001?
Posted by: Hovey
» Phony stats lead to phony conclusions
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Inflation did not eat up the real growth during the Clinton years. The size of the economy doubled
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Apr 28, 2008 9:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Neither Democratic candidate are really or at all addressing these..
We must Nationalize the American Oil Industry and eventually all major energy such as electric..
We can peg the sub prime mortgages at 3% above the Fed rate or even prime rate with a cut off at 6.25% and forgiving all penalties to date 1/2 of which or more are illegal as reported..
We must once again have Usery Laws especially for Credit Card companies with an interest rate no higher than 18.9% and that for only the most repeated non -payers or late payers for the most part nothing higher than 15% which is still too high..
We must end corporate "personhood" corporations are not people..
We must nationalize the American Airline Industry and require all maintenance is done within the United States..
We must have a Single Payer Health Care System..!
We must end Tax brakes for those who outsource jobs from the United states and limit the use and abuse of H1-B Visas
We must raise the taxation for Social security from it current level of $94,000 or $97,000 to $150,000- $200,000
We must cut taxes for those in the middle class and lower middle class from $45,000 to $85,000 or $90,000
We must end the out sourcing and bleeding out of our military and dual use technologies..
We must remember the purpose of government is to Serve The People..not the ever less loyal corporations who are abandoning America not just out sourcing our jobs but abandoning the American worker and we must get a grip on the Illegal immigration which is part of Bush's assault upon the working and middle class..
This has been nearly 8 years of the worst class warfare since the 1930's..
And we must get out of Iraq..!
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» RE: Some solutions..
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Some solutions..
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace
» RE: Some solutions..
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Some solutions..
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace
» RE: Some solutions..
Posted by: Quannah
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Cybershaman on Apr 28, 2008 10:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fear is the actual opposite of love. A population that follows the dictates of a leader out of love is a healthy citizenry, while a population that obeys out of fear is wallowing in dysfunction.
This gang of thieves rule through fear!
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» Love is the only way forward.
Posted by: LeftWright
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Posted by: Southern Gal on Apr 28, 2008 10:38 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The Truth is Buried
Posted by: Von
Comments are closed-
Posted by: warriornation on Apr 28, 2008 10:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reagan was certainly not an economist, so why are so many in love with his policies??
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» RE: eaganomics
Posted by: jwg
Comments are closed-
Posted by: unreceivedogma on Apr 28, 2008 11:46 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: hms2004 on Apr 28, 2008 12:37 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Hey I'm practically
Posted by: Inlander
» RE: Inlander...
Posted by: Quannah
Comments are closed-
Posted by: yellow on Apr 28, 2008 1:31 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Globalization is at the core of the problem since it is the basis of the accumulation (investment) patterns of late capitalism. Trillions in cross border mergers and acquisitions over the past decade have concentrated the global economy on an unprecedented level. The current pattern of global capital flows reflect the new global division of labor. The weak dollar strategy since 2001 has cheapened US financial and real assets for foreign investors drawing in nearly a trillion dollars annually in foreign capital with which to finance low interest consumer borrowing and purchases. US financial markets have boomed since Bush took office in 2001. Over the past eight years the growth of the financial sector has exceeded 400%! The current organizational basis of the global economy is not nation-states but transnational corporations (TNCs) whose profit considerations determine policy. The US absorption of most of the world's savings funds domestic consumption of overseas corporate manufacturing output. Offshoring of such output lowered unit costs through cheap labor and thereby increased corporate profit. Capital flows from the third world to the US also help to shift the burden of structural adjustment onto the poorer countries who, in order to prevent massive capital flight, must engage in neo-liberal, free market reforms which favors capital while creating poverty and unemployment for workers.
Low US consumer demand, a result of long term declining real incomes, was offset by low interest debt driven growth. This is what has been sustaining the global economy. The export led growth strategies of the Asian economies, which have proven so profitable to overseas TNC subsidiaries, relies on continually expanding US consumer demand. A global recession now threatens the present model of late capitalist financialization. Only a total restructuring of the current model based on progressive taxation and public spending to create new, labor intensive sectors in health care, mass transit, renewable energy and infrastructure restoration can save the US and world economies from catastrophe. Band aid solutions like tariffs can't reverse globalization and will only cause more chaos under the current circumstances. It is now time for a New Deal
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» Thank you...
Posted by: tbone
» pfft! the government doesn't do military or foreign policy well enough
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: Thank you...
Posted by: Spot
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sofla100 on Apr 28, 2008 3:58 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
Wealth, and of course, political power, are therefore concentrated at the top. The net result for the general society is a continual downgrading and lack of emphasis on any programs that are considered "progressive," such as universal health care or education.
Contrast this with the progressive and "socialist" European states. Sweden and Germany have an upper class, but it's closer to 25% of the population that controls a little over 1/3rd of the countries wealth. The reason, progressive taxation. We need a system that makes wealthy individuals pay their fair share of taxes. For the upper income brackets, 50-60% or more. Instead of the current situation, where they pay an even lower rate of taxes then the poor. No wonder America is so "screwed up."
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Posted by: HeKnew on Apr 28, 2008 4:41 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We should...
We have to...
We could...
Nothing is going to change until the American people take control of their own destinies.
Direct Democracy
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Posted by: Sojourner on Apr 28, 2008 9:31 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We need to break the reactionary log jam that we have been in for the last 30 years. It has loaded us down with more problems than we can solve in a lifetime. But let's do something that will do some good. Let's start destroying more nuclear weapons and cutting back military spending. Or medicare for everyone.
Clinton has promised to reduce poverty for American children. Obama says he's willing to confront the greedy business community. Those are great. But not radical enough for Americans to believe once again that there is hope for our kids, that someone in Washington, DC, is listening.
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» RE: No one can solve all our problems.
Posted by: Spot
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Posted by: kcwriter on Apr 29, 2008 12:23 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: matthood on Apr 29, 2008 3:57 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush is the grandchild of a Nazi supporter, Prescott Bush whom he and Allen Dulles stole millions from the Nazi.
President George Bush economic policy is the same has the same that bankrupted the nation deliberatly during the Great Depression when the Republicans days were coming to an end. They all got rich off the nation while we were at war whose kids stayed at home.
Bush bankrupted all of his companies. He walked out on his shareholders knowing his company was broke and made sure he cashed his check;knowing like Ken Lay he had robbed all of his share holders. Why would any one invest in a man who knew nothing about drilling for oil or how to find oil to start with. He created his oil company has a write off for political influence people could buy influence because his father was VP and President who he knew he would not be prosecuted. The CIA with their people hidden in the different levels of government had his SEC files destroyed just like his father was destroyed for tax invasion by doing business with Mexico illegally. The war in Iraq is a bankrobbery under the false illusion of a war the military and the CIA had planned since the 1940's. The US Military are pacifing the Iraq's pepeopleuntil the knowour history better than us. This what the Military has been doing simce they killed their first Indian. The Goverment says go west for 40 acres and a mule to give the military the excuse they needed to murderd 100 million Indians who did not understand our way of life;just' like the Military is going to do today when the terrorist make they wrong mistake that will cause for their extenction. Presott Bush was one of those who established the policy to put the middle east under American control by privatizing Isam who is the enemy of private enterprize who considered ususry a sin that is going to provoke a war for all war when America will not leave Iraq. Iran knows that they are next on the list.
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Posted by: ciccio on Apr 29, 2008 12:47 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: oxheadone on Apr 29, 2008 1:29 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: oxheadone
Posted by: Spot
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DeaconJ on Apr 29, 2008 9:07 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the unraveling that Americans are now faced with. Never where there new jobs created, manpower moved offshore. Folks took out loans and bought a 75 thousand dollar pickup to start a lawn mowin business. People put granite countertops in their kitchens cause all their favorite TV family sitcoms had them in their homes. Now they are predicting 200 barrels of oil equating to $10 a gallon gas at the the pump. People are going to fall through the thin ice.
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Posted by: DaBear on Apr 30, 2008 2:47 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bullshit. That's a myth that's very popular amongst the owning class and their middling sicophants. When poor people got credit, what'd we do, buy the only housing left to us (because they tore down or condo-ized the apartments we used to be forced to rent), condos and the tiny substandard, construction defect riddled cast-offs of the middle class who moved on to McMansions. Housing isn't a foolish choice, no matter how overpriced the owning class force shelter to become. And the fact that we had to get subprimes doesn't mean it was our "choice"... get over yourselves rich folk, YOU caused all of this, YOU. Suck it up and stop blaming poor people for your fuck up.
The only "consumers, bankers and business people" who were/are foolish are the investor/owning class asshats who invented the bubble in the first place.
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Posted by: macdon1 on Apr 30, 2008 8:47 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Don't Say I Told You So
Posted by: Von
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Posted by: mike_burns on May 1, 2008 5:04 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Trikle down was instituted.
Unionism on decline.
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Posted by: JSquercia on May 1, 2008 6:12 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And yes I am switching banks I will probably go to a local Credit Union .
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Posted by: TruthBeTold on May 3, 2008 2:46 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Read this blog from an Iraqi citizen Treasure of Baghdad at http://baghdadtreasure.blogspot.com, about a segment he watched on an affilitae of ABC News.
"Stray dogs are being flown from Iraq by airplanes to the U.S. to be adopted by U.S. military servicemen and women, and sometimes by the private security contractors whom we all know how they behave with humans in Iraq. Each dog brought costs the U.S. $1,200. The military men and women do not have to pay for that. Volunteers from across the U.S. donate hundreds of dollars to save these pups.
By the time millions of Iraqi civilians have become refugees inside and outside Iraq, the perpetrators of the war have the guts to show up on TV and say they are paying thousands of dollars to save some stray dogs. Instead of helping those who were affected by their war, the Americans are helping cats and dogs".
If anyone wants to know how the people in/of Iraq are faring, read some of their blogs.
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Posted by: estherme on May 3, 2008 4:26 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: whealeydj on May 3, 2008 4:47 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: mmckinl on Apr 28, 2008 1:03 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All the groups mentioned have been fully euthanized to any facts or knowledge inconvenient for the Oligarchy. These groups are all on board with the propaganda with a few well known exceptions.
Then there is the financial sector that ran wild with Greenspan spiking the "Punch Bowl" with 1% interest rates while handing out the Xtasy of non regulation for trillion dollar derivatives markets run by the banks we the taxpayer back with our guaranteed deposits.
The author fails to mention our 800 billion dollar trade deficit that can only be remedied by tariffs. The fallacy of strategy there is that the falling dollar will cure this "imbalance" while importers manipulate their currencies, dump product, subsidize production, allow extreme pollution and use slave labor.
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» RE: Overall a Good Comment .... but
Posted by: gazooks
» RE: Overall a Good Comment .... but
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Overall a Good Comment .... but
Posted by: hiryuu75
» RE: That My Friend is a Very Good Qestion
Posted by: edgar_michel
» RE: Overall a Good Article .... but
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Overall a Good Article .... but
Posted by: Bobby Decker
Comments are closed-
Posted by: AlexLawyer on Apr 28, 2008 1:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hillary Clinton is neocon lite. She plays the same game, downing beer and whisky to prove her solidarity with the working classes who languished under her husband and were brutalized by Wal-Mart when she was on its board.
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» RE: Akrasia--Acting Contrary to Self-Interest
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Akrasia--Acting Contrary to Self-Interest
Posted by: joe2171
» RE: Akrasia--Acting Contrary to Self-Interest
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: AlexLawyer
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: AlexLawyer
Posted by: Hovey
» 2 Kinds of Republicans
Posted by: Badger1492
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Veros on Apr 28, 2008 2:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Freedom is not free, freedom requires responsibility. We are losing our freedom.
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» RE: Corruption stifles growth
Posted by: donnee
» RE: Corruption stifles growth
Posted by: ChairmanMetal
» bingo!
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: "Tricklism"
Posted by: editnetwork
Comments are closed-
Posted by: flymulla on Apr 28, 2008 3:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of all the facts, I have in front of me I choose this one. When the building is constructed there are many hands working simultaneously to make sure that the residents who come to pay rent have the comfort of the rent paid. If there is pipe leak, the plumber is the right man. If my fridge gives me odour, call the electrician. If I have leaking roof I do no go to astrologer, I tell the proprietor of this. Alternatively, I repair and knock the amount paid from the rent. I can go to someone. All work in harmony if they want me to stay or they lose the tenancy. To draw a bigger picture we have the ministers who are running the country. If one is away, another does the work. This does not stop. The president came to me asking for the sell of the house. He was paid and he now looks after my house or he has some one who does this. Remove any, I scream loud. All told, I go to the president if the screw and bolts are lose. If he does not listen, I say, please pack up, we had enough from you. Make way for the new one. What he does, we will decide later, but for now, you go.”
The way I see the economy, Mr. Bush is going. No. I have nothing against anyone. I want the economy to come back to the kevel it was. If there is some one who can fix this, Mr. Bush had it all wrong. Why do we need fixing this now? We had good times. Why do we swim in the water with the sharks and that too no help from any one?
I thank you
Firozali A. Mulla MBA PhD
P.O.Box 6044
Dar-Es-Salaam
Tanzania
East Africa
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Posted by: socialpsych on Apr 28, 2008 3:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» There was a recession and it was the one thing Bush wasn't responsible for.
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» RE: There was a recession and it was the one thing Bush wasn't responsible for.
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: There was a recession and it was the one thing Bush wasn't responsible for.
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» RE: Greenspan intentionally caused the 2001 recession to put Bush in office
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» The dotcom bust was a recession for the investment class.
Posted by: andabottleof_rum
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chrysalis124812 on Apr 28, 2008 5:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We be the grown-ups now.
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Posted by: williameon on Apr 28, 2008 6:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gas $4 a Gallon
Higher Taxes
Less Education
No Health Care
Homelessness
A Chimp Dictator and
A Hand Puppet Government
Media consolidation
Open Scorn and Disdain shown by
The Chimp/ Dead Eye & FAUX Media towards
America and The Rule of Law.
911
Spying
Lying
Torture
Pollution
Propaganda
Poverty
The Iraq WAR
12,000+ US Dead
50,000 Wounded
300,000+ Scared for Life
Broken families
Lost jobs
Lost wages
The Falling Dollar
A Ten Million times a Million-
Ten Trillion Dollar Debt.
One Million DEAD Civilians
Four Million refugees
Homes destroyed
Families blown apart
Thousands of tons of Depleted Uranium.
Holy Nuclear Waste BAT-MAN
Is this the answer to their waste Disposal Problem?
Killing Two Ducks with every round?
The ones shooting and the ones receiving the rounds.
Iraq leveled
Afghanistan leveled
While America’s infrastructure disintegrates
Crappy roads
Decrepit schools
Brooklyn Bridge is Falling Down
A Black Army there
And The Dark Army here
Fences
Concentration Camps
CIA
NSA
FBI
Pollution
Global Warming
Katrina
One catastrophe after another!
Add your own!!!!!!
How much can the American People take?
They are sick of this WAR! and
They are afraid of what is in store for them next!
Everyone is on pins and needles!
The Consumerism Dream is over.
Now it has turned into a NIGHTMARE!
Sink or swim?
It is your turn now!
They have run out of victims.
Everyone else is gone.
The Bullhorns announce
Thanks for waiting in line
Like so many Sheep in our pens
Run The Corpirate Gauntlet
As fast as you can.
Go down the long Chute/Shoot and
Wait for the hammer/next-shoe to fall.
General Betray-U.S. has been promoted
To lead the assault
On reason.
Let’s start up another
Start up another
FU-KING WAR!
Beware
The Next
False Flag Operation.
A Blue City
Mission Admonished II
BANG!
Dead Eye likes shooting fish in a barrel!
There’s more innocence to Slaughter
Coffins to build and
Graves to fill.
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» RE: Are you better off then you were 8 years ago?
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Not me.
Posted by: thekidde
» RE: Not me.
Posted by: Kitty Lady Oregon
» Let's face it, folks
Posted by: willymack
» RE: Are you better off then you were 8 years ago?
Posted by: Enkidu Nwyvre
» RE: Are you better off then you were 8 years ago?
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Are you better off then you were 8 years ago?
Posted by: joe2171
» RE: Are you better off then you were 8 years ago?
Posted by: Spot
» RE: Are you better off then you were 8 years ago?
Posted by: YuvbinDuped
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Liberty G on Apr 28, 2008 6:45 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Liberty G on Apr 28, 2008 6:45 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: xcellent Summary
Posted by: Jonnan
Comments are closed-
Posted by: goldengrain on Apr 28, 2008 6:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After the Great Depression, around 1930, Congress passed two acts of the same names to ensure this would never happen again - The Glass-Steagall Act.
It was to prevent financial institutions in the US from making risky investments. Over many administrations it was whittled away at until finally, with King George, it was totally done away with.
No more Act meant our banks could invest in bad mortgages, which they did. The failure of these mortgages has caused problems with banking around the world.
Do we ever learn from history?
Why did not the media tell us about this?
Why do these very institutions get a bail out and the people flounder?
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» congress during the last year of the clinton administration repealed glass-steagall
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: congress during the last year of the clinton administration repealed glass-steagall
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: congress during the last year of the clinton administration repealed glass-steagall
Posted by: Kitty Lady Oregon
» RE: congress during the last year of the clinton administration repealed glass-steagall
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: conomic Collapse Due to Repeat of Glass-Steagall
Posted by: buzzsaw
» RE: conomic Collapse Due to Repeat of Glass-Steagall
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: conomic Collapse Due to Repeat of Glass-Steagall
Posted by: Von
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Posted by: peacekeepertwo on Apr 28, 2008 7:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» we can discuss till we're blue in the face
Posted by: e rice
» RE: we can discuss till we're blue in the face
Posted by: aji
» RE: It's time to Begin the discussion on how to fix this.
Posted by: Spot
» RE: It's time to Begin the discussion on how to fix this.
Posted by: pangea
Comments are closed-
Posted by: daw13 on Apr 28, 2008 8:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This locale includes one of the enclaves of the upper-class. Those to whom the rest of us are basically… well, pissants. In my dream this mass of nicely dressed, scrubbed and groomed young citizens arrived from many directions in a caravan of busses. They debussed in an orderly manner and waltzed into Westchester County. Tucked under each of their arms was – no, not a Gideon Bible, but a copy of Howard Zinn’s A People’s History of the United States.
Before Westchester police realized what was happening, the first wave spread out and began knocking on doors. To every upper-class local under thirty they offered a People’s History and a little speech. About what a shame it was that their parents deliberately empowered a president dedicated to trashing ordinary citizens, so that upper-class families could remain comfortable as the country faced various crises. Crises the upper-class had caused and that might logically make ordinary citizens mad at them. Citizens not very different from themselves as people. Wouldn’t it be better if upper-class elders would consider reaching out to their fellow citizens with a little decency, the visitors asked?
Many young Westchestrians were rather moved, in my dream. In spite of having been carefully and diligently socialized concerning the despicableness of ordinary citizens (pissants), they had not had a chance yet to behave really cruelly toward them. They were still dependent on their elders to lie, repress and persecute in order to maintain oligarchy behind a façade of justice and fairness. Actually, young Westchesterians were fairly innocent. Consequently, they still possessed some empathy and compassion for people they felt kinship with -- in spite of the training they had received. Some, in fact, felt so empathetic that they joined the visitors striding from door to door armed only with Zinn.
Before long, hordes of police arrived and begin bashing heads and breaking ribs, leaving rich people’s lawns all bloody. Young upper-class men and women watched this mayhem more in horror than with approval, to their parents’ deep chagrin. Bruised and battered visitors kept talking and offering Zinns --even while being dragged by the hair to waiting police vans -- as a second wave of visitors debussed. The now prepared police intercepted many, but the more they intercepted the more arrived.
On and on it went, in my dream, from dawn to dusk, day after day. Upper-class elders grew concerned. Those who formed the core and majority of the nation’s Power Elite met in churches and mansions and clubs to discuss a potential social control crisis. Was it possible any longer to ensure that pissant oppression, repression and if need be extermination could be guaranteed to occur only outside of the boundaries of upper-class enclaves? Must they now physically enfortress themselves? What would this mean? How would their families feel? Life wouldn’t be fun anymore.
They decided, at length, that the current situation was unacceptable. This was NOT the way things were supposed to be. Soon the incumbent president, whom they regarded as a factotum, began receiving angry phone calls and visitors, telling him to DO SOMETHING!
But the only something the Incumbent knew how to do was break heads, incarcerate and torture. Unfortunately, these techniques did not work well to deal with a mass of citizens who were not an angry, violent mob. But who WERE extremely well organized and ready to suffer a good deal in order to educate the people of Westchester County that whatever happened in the U.S.A. would happen to all.
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» i'll have what you're having
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» Pitchforks and torches, storm the "gated" communities, eat the rich.
Posted by: thekidde
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Posted by: modeler on Apr 28, 2008 8:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: ussia went bust
Posted by: Cybershaman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 28, 2008 8:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is the Dow Jones index? The share value of the following corporations:
Altria Group, Incorporated
Intel Corp.
Aluminum Co. Of America
International Business Machines Corp.
American Express Company
J.P. Morgan Chase & Co.
American International Group, Inc.
Johnson & Johnson
Boeing Co.
McDonald's Corp.
Caterpillar Inc.
Merck & Company, Inc.
Citigroup, Inc.
Microsoft Corp.
Coca-Cola Co.
Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing Co.
DuPont Co.
Pfizer, Inc.
Exxon Mobile Corp.
Proctor & Gamble Co.
General Electric Co.
SBC Communications, Inc.
General Motors Corp.
United Technologies Corp.
Hewlett-Packard Co.
Verizon Communications, Inc.
The Home Depot, Inc.
Wal-Mart Stores Inc.
Honeywell International, Inc.
Walt Disney Co.
The actual ownership of these corporations is even more consolidated, and includes institutional shareholders, i.e. banks, and various funds, which themselves are just holding companies that funnel dividends to a small number of billionaire clients.
When these corporations fire employees and move manufacturing to China, their share value goes up. War, environmental degradation, the use of cheap slave labor - all are very profitable, and that's what the CEOs and shareholders want to be able to use. Shareholders at the largest corporations (Chevron, etc.) routinely vote down any dissent over the environment or human rights - they love Exxon's CEO and his business and PR practices, really.
The net effect of this system is that most real decisions in our country are made by politicians and government officials who are entirely owned by various members of this "corporatocracy" or "plutocracy" or "oligarchy". This has also resulted in the growth of aristocratic mentality (witness the cancellation of the estate tax) - Clinton, for example, is probably outraged that the peasants didn't all jump on her train - yes, this is a growing cultural phenomenon.
Indeed, this is really the role that modern economics plays. It provides a system which equates "healthy and good" with the fortunes of the wealthiest people on the planet. If Bill Gates is getting richer, we all are! It's complete propaganda, but amazingly large numbers of people have bought into it - because it is the main propaganda line put out by all media outlets in the U.S.
Seriously - the last of the honest economists were Adam Smith and David Ricardo. A major exception is Joseph Stiglitz - but he's made a career out of showing that modern economic theory is full of holes.
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» For Alterneters who think I'm sucking up to you, TC -- I'm NOT but gave you a "5" anyway.
Posted by: HughScott
» Can't you go post on ABC's web site or something?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Can't you go post on ABC's web site or something?
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Media propaganda becomes very lockstep on economic issues.
Posted by: Spot
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Apr 28, 2008 8:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Virtually everything the "fiscal conservatives" have done since Ronald Regan have taken us closer to that kind of system. Trickle down economics means the rich guy pisses and what trickles down his leg the poor folk get to fight over!
But they make it sound like their brand of economics is good for the little guy so you have all these blue color folks thinking republicans will help the economy. ANOTHER LIE FOLKS!!!!!!
All my luv and affection,
Grandma Crabby
VideoProductionTips = Learn Internet Video
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» How do they sell it to the common folk?
Posted by: arieden
» RE: How do they sell it to the common folk?
Posted by: yale
» RE: Serfdom
Posted by: Spot
Comments are closed-
Posted by: RON_KING on Apr 28, 2008 8:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The main problem with the Republican plan is that while taxes were lowered the benefit of that lowering was only felt by a few. The majority of even conservative voters saw no benefit.
The trouble with "trickle down" economics is that by the time it gets to the bottom it is just that; a mere trickle and of no benefit.
"Trickle up" economics, like the gentle rain that starts in the mountains, by the time it gathers in the rivers it becomes a great flood.
By impoverishing the nation, the wealthy are shooting themselves in both feet. A nation with no money to spend cannot support the businesses that make the wealthy rich. A strong middle class, and even a less needy poor class, builds business faster than even the most greedy of wealth accumulators could wish.
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» RE: conomics 101
Posted by: CatDad
» Tinpot dictatorships are on the rise, however.
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
Comments are closed-
Posted by: JohnJlws on Apr 28, 2008 8:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Farrakhan's endorsement
Wright right or wrong
Lapel pins or not
Hand over heart or not
Muslim or not
Snipers (although bold-faced lying is a bigger deal)
Bill's latest racial remark
Yep, we're on the right tract and we know where we're going now. We are becoming, or for all intents have become, a third world nation and our MSM spoon feeds us "issues" one could equate to a dog taking a dump in the road.
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» RE: And we're talking about
Posted by: Spot
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HughScott on Apr 28, 2008 8:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» LOL!
Posted by: WhatNow?
» RE: LOL!
Posted by: willymack
» Hugh, give it up, OK?
Posted by: JimmyVaughan
» and the voice of reason
Posted by: e rice
» Give it up, you say. Give WHAT up -- my freedom of speech?
Posted by: HughScott
» Your alleged "freedom of speech" is not the issue, Hugh.
Posted by: JimmyVaughan
» RE: Your alleged "freedom of speech" is not the issue, Hugh.
Posted by: JimmyVaughan
» Now boyz, no one is disputing the facts
Posted by: jwg
» RE: Obama's AVERAGE contribution is less than 100 bucks - he has over 1 million donors
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: Your alleged "freedom of speech" is not the issue, Hugh.
Posted by: Spot
» RE: Hugh, give it up, OK?
Posted by: Hovey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: particle61 on Apr 28, 2008 8:50 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
published by the editors of redstateupdate.net
funny, frightening, free since 2005
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Posted by: Elmo409 on Apr 28, 2008 9:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As time went by, the United Auto Workers and the automobile manufacturers recognized that what was good for the workers was good for the company. It was also good for the steel industry because the auto manufacturers needed steel to make autos and steelworkers who made enough money to buy cars and trucks increased the demand for cars, and trucks and steel.
Then some twerp of an MBA discovered that by using imported steel, and pushing wages down, and cutting costs and not lowering the prices resulted in more profits for the stockholders and bigger bonuses for the twerp MBA. And so we cut, and we cut, and we cut until there was nothing left to cut. The workers had no money to spend, the steel industry was dead, and the auto industry was very sick and getting sicker. But the managers and the stockholders had bigger houses, and boats, and played golf, and contributed to politicians, and so on and so on.
Money does not trickle down.
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» Dont tout Henry Ford.
Posted by: WhatNow?
» Re: Ford, didn't he grow a whole bunch of HEMP?
Posted by: Inlander
» RE: Dont tout Henry Ford.
Posted by: Spot
Comments are closed-
Posted by: WhatNow? on Apr 28, 2008 9:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My improved situation has nothing to do with bush but with things like conservation, investing in tools, and being much more careful in who I would associate. I also learned under clinton's regime that I could never underestimate how stupid or cruel people could be. Prior to that I didn't believe people could or would do some of the things I saw them do.
I always despised clinton but no more than his two predecessors and his only redeeming aspect to me is he was better than bush II. That's not saying much for clinton though.
Last but not least, if the 1990's had not been so bad for me I'd be in much better shape now.
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» RE: Recession since 2001?
Posted by: Artkansas
» RE: ecession since 2001?
Posted by: Hovey
» Phony stats lead to phony conclusions
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Inflation did not eat up the real growth during the Clinton years. The size of the economy doubled
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Apr 28, 2008 9:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Neither Democratic candidate are really or at all addressing these..
We must Nationalize the American Oil Industry and eventually all major energy such as electric..
We can peg the sub prime mortgages at 3% above the Fed rate or even prime rate with a cut off at 6.25% and forgiving all penalties to date 1/2 of which or more are illegal as reported..
We must once again have Usery Laws especially for Credit Card companies with an interest rate no higher than 18.9% and that for only the most repeated non -payers or late payers for the most part nothing higher than 15% which is still too high..
We must end corporate "personhood" corporations are not people..
We must nationalize the American Airline Industry and require all maintenance is done within the United States..
We must have a Single Payer Health Care System..!
We must end Tax brakes for those who outsource jobs from the United states and limit the use and abuse of H1-B Visas
We must raise the taxation for Social security from it current level of $94,000 or $97,000 to $150,000- $200,000
We must cut taxes for those in the middle class and lower middle class from $45,000 to $85,000 or $90,000
We must end the out sourcing and bleeding out of our military and dual use technologies..
We must remember the purpose of government is to Serve The People..not the ever less loyal corporations who are abandoning America not just out sourcing our jobs but abandoning the American worker and we must get a grip on the Illegal immigration which is part of Bush's assault upon the working and middle class..
This has been nearly 8 years of the worst class warfare since the 1930's..
And we must get out of Iraq..!
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» RE: Some solutions..
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Some solutions..
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace
» RE: Some solutions..
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Some solutions..
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace
» RE: Some solutions..
Posted by: Quannah
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Cybershaman on Apr 28, 2008 10:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fear is the actual opposite of love. A population that follows the dictates of a leader out of love is a healthy citizenry, while a population that obeys out of fear is wallowing in dysfunction.
This gang of thieves rule through fear!
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» Love is the only way forward.
Posted by: LeftWright
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Posted by: Southern Gal on Apr 28, 2008 10:38 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The Truth is Buried
Posted by: Von
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Posted by: warriornation on Apr 28, 2008 10:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reagan was certainly not an economist, so why are so many in love with his policies??
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» RE: eaganomics
Posted by: jwg
Comments are closed-
Posted by: unreceivedogma on Apr 28, 2008 11:46 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: hms2004 on Apr 28, 2008 12:37 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Hey I'm practically
Posted by: Inlander
» RE: Inlander...
Posted by: Quannah
Comments are closed-
Posted by: yellow on Apr 28, 2008 1:31 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Globalization is at the core of the problem since it is the basis of the accumulation (investment) patterns of late capitalism. Trillions in cross border mergers and acquisitions over the past decade have concentrated the global economy on an unprecedented level. The current pattern of global capital flows reflect the new global division of labor. The weak dollar strategy since 2001 has cheapened US financial and real assets for foreign investors drawing in nearly a trillion dollars annually in foreign capital with which to finance low interest consumer borrowing and purchases. US financial markets have boomed since Bush took office in 2001. Over the past eight years the growth of the financial sector has exceeded 400%! The current organizational basis of the global economy is not nation-states but transnational corporations (TNCs) whose profit considerations determine policy. The US absorption of most of the world's savings funds domestic consumption of overseas corporate manufacturing output. Offshoring of such output lowered unit costs through cheap labor and thereby increased corporate profit. Capital flows from the third world to the US also help to shift the burden of structural adjustment onto the poorer countries who, in order to prevent massive capital flight, must engage in neo-liberal, free market reforms which favors capital while creating poverty and unemployment for workers.
Low US consumer demand, a result of long term declining real incomes, was offset by low interest debt driven growth. This is what has been sustaining the global economy. The export led growth strategies of the Asian economies, which have proven so profitable to overseas TNC subsidiaries, relies on continually expanding US consumer demand. A global recession now threatens the present model of late capitalist financialization. Only a total restructuring of the current model based on progressive taxation and public spending to create new, labor intensive sectors in health care, mass transit, renewable energy and infrastructure restoration can save the US and world economies from catastrophe. Band aid solutions like tariffs can't reverse globalization and will only cause more chaos under the current circumstances. It is now time for a New Deal
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» Thank you...
Posted by: tbone
» pfft! the government doesn't do military or foreign policy well enough
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: Thank you...
Posted by: Spot
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sofla100 on Apr 28, 2008 3:58 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
Wealth, and of course, political power, are therefore concentrated at the top. The net result for the general society is a continual downgrading and lack of emphasis on any programs that are considered "progressive," such as universal health care or education.
Contrast this with the progressive and "socialist" European states. Sweden and Germany have an upper class, but it's closer to 25% of the population that controls a little over 1/3rd of the countries wealth. The reason, progressive taxation. We need a system that makes wealthy individuals pay their fair share of taxes. For the upper income brackets, 50-60% or more. Instead of the current situation, where they pay an even lower rate of taxes then the poor. No wonder America is so "screwed up."
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Posted by: HeKnew on Apr 28, 2008 4:41 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We should...
We have to...
We could...
Nothing is going to change until the American people take control of their own destinies.
Direct Democracy
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Posted by: Sojourner on Apr 28, 2008 9:31 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We need to break the reactionary log jam that we have been in for the last 30 years. It has loaded us down with more problems than we can solve in a lifetime. But let's do something that will do some good. Let's start destroying more nuclear weapons and cutting back military spending. Or medicare for everyone.
Clinton has promised to reduce poverty for American children. Obama says he's willing to confront the greedy business community. Those are great. But not radical enough for Americans to believe once again that there is hope for our kids, that someone in Washington, DC, is listening.
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» RE: No one can solve all our problems.
Posted by: Spot
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Posted by: kcwriter on Apr 29, 2008 12:23 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: matthood on Apr 29, 2008 3:57 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush is the grandchild of a Nazi supporter, Prescott Bush whom he and Allen Dulles stole millions from the Nazi.
President George Bush economic policy is the same has the same that bankrupted the nation deliberatly during the Great Depression when the Republicans days were coming to an end. They all got rich off the nation while we were at war whose kids stayed at home.
Bush bankrupted all of his companies. He walked out on his shareholders knowing his company was broke and made sure he cashed his check;knowing like Ken Lay he had robbed all of his share holders. Why would any one invest in a man who knew nothing about drilling for oil or how to find oil to start with. He created his oil company has a write off for political influence people could buy influence because his father was VP and President who he knew he would not be prosecuted. The CIA with their people hidden in the different levels of government had his SEC files destroyed just like his father was destroyed for tax invasion by doing business with Mexico illegally. The war in Iraq is a bankrobbery under the false illusion of a war the military and the CIA had planned since the 1940's. The US Military are pacifing the Iraq's pepeopleuntil the knowour history better than us. This what the Military has been doing simce they killed their first Indian. The Goverment says go west for 40 acres and a mule to give the military the excuse they needed to murderd 100 million Indians who did not understand our way of life;just' like the Military is going to do today when the terrorist make they wrong mistake that will cause for their extenction. Presott Bush was one of those who established the policy to put the middle east under American control by privatizing Isam who is the enemy of private enterprize who considered ususry a sin that is going to provoke a war for all war when America will not leave Iraq. Iran knows that they are next on the list.
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Posted by: ciccio on Apr 29, 2008 12:47 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: oxheadone on Apr 29, 2008 1:29 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: oxheadone
Posted by: Spot
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Posted by: DeaconJ on Apr 29, 2008 9:07 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the unraveling that Americans are now faced with. Never where there new jobs created, manpower moved offshore. Folks took out loans and bought a 75 thousand dollar pickup to start a lawn mowin business. People put granite countertops in their kitchens cause all their favorite TV family sitcoms had them in their homes. Now they are predicting 200 barrels of oil equating to $10 a gallon gas at the the pump. People are going to fall through the thin ice.
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Posted by: DaBear on Apr 30, 2008 2:47 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bullshit. That's a myth that's very popular amongst the owning class and their middling sicophants. When poor people got credit, what'd we do, buy the only housing left to us (because they tore down or condo-ized the apartments we used to be forced to rent), condos and the tiny substandard, construction defect riddled cast-offs of the middle class who moved on to McMansions. Housing isn't a foolish choice, no matter how overpriced the owning class force shelter to become. And the fact that we had to get subprimes doesn't mean it was our "choice"... get over yourselves rich folk, YOU caused all of this, YOU. Suck it up and stop blaming poor people for your fuck up.
The only "consumers, bankers and business people" who were/are foolish are the investor/owning class asshats who invented the bubble in the first place.
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Posted by: macdon1 on Apr 30, 2008 8:47 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Don't Say I Told You So
Posted by: Von
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Posted by: mike_burns on May 1, 2008 5:04 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Trikle down was instituted.
Unionism on decline.
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Posted by: JSquercia on May 1, 2008 6:12 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And yes I am switching banks I will probably go to a local Credit Union .
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Posted by: TruthBeTold on May 3, 2008 2:46 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Read this blog from an Iraqi citizen Treasure of Baghdad at http://baghdadtreasure.blogspot.com, about a segment he watched on an affilitae of ABC News.
"Stray dogs are being flown from Iraq by airplanes to the U.S. to be adopted by U.S. military servicemen and women, and sometimes by the private security contractors whom we all know how they behave with humans in Iraq. Each dog brought costs the U.S. $1,200. The military men and women do not have to pay for that. Volunteers from across the U.S. donate hundreds of dollars to save these pups.
By the time millions of Iraqi civilians have become refugees inside and outside Iraq, the perpetrators of the war have the guts to show up on TV and say they are paying thousands of dollars to save some stray dogs. Instead of helping those who were affected by their war, the Americans are helping cats and dogs".
If anyone wants to know how the people in/of Iraq are faring, read some of their blogs.
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Posted by: estherme on May 3, 2008 4:26 PM
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Posted by: whealeydj on May 3, 2008 4:47 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Tax the Corporations and the Rich or Take Draconian Cuts -- the Decision Is Ours
Fury at Wall St. Banks Fuels Public Action for Move Your Money Campaign
Why Congress Wants You to Shun Your Local Bookstore and Shop at Amazon Instead




