COMMENTS: 191
Immigrants Come Here Because Globalization Took Their Jobs Back There
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That's not some diatribe from one of today's Republican presidential candidates. It's the anxious cry of none other than Ben Franklin, deploring the wave of Germans pouring into the colony of Pennsylvania in the 1750s. Thus, anti-immigrant eruptions are older than the United States itself, and they've flared up periodically throughout our history, targeting the Irish, French, Italians, Chinese, and others. Even George W's current project to wall off our border is not a new bit of nuttiness -- around the time of the nation's founding, John Jay, who later became the first chief justice of the Supreme Court, proposed "a wall of brass around the country for the exclusion of Catholics."
Luckily for the development and enrichment of our country, these past public frenzies ultimately failed to exclude the teeming masses, and those uproars now appear through the telescope of time to have been some combination of ridiculous panic, political demagoguery and xenophobic ugliness. Still, this does not mean that the public's anxiety and simmering anger about today's massive influx of Mexicans coming illegally across our 2,000-mile shared border is illegitimate. However, most of what the politicians and pundits are saying about it is illegitimate.
Wedge issue
There is way too much xenophobia, racism and demagoguery at play around illegal immigration, but such crude sentiments are not what is bringing this problem to a national political boil. Polls show -- as do conversations at any Chat & Chew Cafe in the country -- that there is a deep and genuine alarm about the issue among the nonxenophobic, nonracist American majority. In particular, workaday families are fearful about what an endless flow of low-wage workers portends for their economic future, and they're not getting good answers from Republicans, Democrats, corporate leaders or the media.
For the GOP candidates in this year's presidential run, the contest is coming down to who can be the most nativist knucklehead. They accuse each other of not wanting to punish immigrant children enough, of not being absolutists on "English-only" proposals, of having coddled illegal entrants in the past with amnesty proposals and sanctuaries, and of not being hawkish enough on sealing off and militarizing the border.
The leader of the anti-immigrant Republican pack is Tom Tancredo, a Colorado congress-critter who based his ill-fated presidential campaign on immigrant bashing. This goober is so nasty he'd scare small children. His website screeched that immigrants are "pushing drugs, raping kids, destroying lives," and his campaign slogan is a sledgehammer demand: "Deport those who don't belong. Make sure they never come back." As for illegal immigrants, Tom thinks that the term "illegal" is too soft, preferring to demonize immigrants as "aliens." Tancredo doesn't merely rant, he foams at the mouth, maniacally warning about waves of Mexican terrorists who are "coming to kill me and you and your children." Accused of trying to turn America into a gated community, he exulted, "You bet!"
At least he's taken a position, even if it's un-American and loopy. Democratic leaders, on the other hand, have mostly tried to do a squishy shuffle, wanting to beef up law enforcement against illegal immigrants while also mouthing soothing words about the good work ethic of our friends south of the border and offering a bureaucratic rigmarole to allow some of the younger ones to gain permanent residency in our country. Worse, such corporate Democrats as Rep. Rahm Emanuel urge the party's candidates either to adopt the Republican's punitive message or simply to try ducking the issue.
Which brings us to the wall, both figuratively and literally. The fact that we are resorting to the construction of an enormous fence between two friendly nations admits to an abject failure by policy makers, who are so bereft of ideas, honesty, courage and morality that all they can do is to try walling off the problem.
We've had experience here in Texas with the futility of tall border fences. Molly Ivins reported a beer-induced incident that took place in 1983. Walling off Mexico had been proposed back then by the Reaganauts, and a test fence had been built way down in the Big Bend outpost of Terlingua. This little town also happened to be the site of a renowned chili cookoff that Molly helped judge, and it attracted a big crowd of impish, beer-drinking chiliheads.
There stood the barrier, 17 feet tall and topped with barbwire. It didn't take many beers before the first-ever "Terlingua Memorial Over, Under, or Through the Mexican Fence Climbing Contest" was cooked up. Winning time: 30 seconds.
Yet here come the border sealers again. Bush & Co. (including Democrats who have allowed the funding) is putting up an initial $1.2 billion to start building this version of the wall, which is projected to cost up to $60 billion over the next 25 years to build and maintain. It's a monster wall -- two or three 40-foot-high rows of reinforced fencing that take a swath of land 150 feet wide and stretch for 700 miles.
The Mexican government and people are insulted and appalled by the wall; ranchers, mayors and families living on either side of the border hate it; environmentalists are aghast at its destructive impact on the ecology of the area. Still, it's being built. Indeed, a 2005 federal act contained a little-noticed section authorizing Bush's Homeland Security czar to suspend any laws that stand in the way of building the wall. Current czar Michael Chertoff has already used this unprecedented authority to waive 19 statutes, including the Endangered Species, Clean Water and National Historic Preservation Acts.
All this for something that will not work. As Gov. Janet Napolitano of Arizona put it, "Show me a 50-foot wall and I'll show you a 51-foot ladder." People have literally been dying to cross into the United States, and it's not possible to build a wall tall enough to stop them. They will keep coming.
Why?
The question that policy makers have not faced honestly is this one: Why do these immigrants come? The answer is not that they are pulled by our jobs and government benefits, but that they are pushed by the abject poverty that their families face in Mexico. That might seem like a mere semantic difference, but it's huge if you're trying to develop a policy to stop the human flood across our border.
Although you never hear it mentioned in debates on the issue, you might start with this reality: Most Mexican people really would prefer to live in their own country. Can we all say, duh? Pedro Martin, who has seen most of the young men and women in his small village depart for El Norte, put it this way: "Up north, even though they pay more, you're not necessarily living as well. You feel out of place. Here you can walk around the whole town, and it's comfortable. Life is easier."
Their family, language, culture, identity and happiness is Mexican -- yet sheer economic survival requires so many of them to abandon the place they love.
Again, why? Because in the last 15 years, Mexico's longstanding system of sustaining its huge population of poor citizens (including small self-sufficient farms, jobs in state-owned industries and subsidies for such essentials as tortillas) has been scuttled at the insistence of U.S. banks, corporations, government officials and "free market" ideologues. In the name of "modernizing" the Mexican economy, such giants as Citigroup, Wal-Mart, Tyson Foods and GE -- in cahoots with the plutocrats and oligarchs of Mexico -- have laid waste to that country's grass-roots economy, destroying the already-meager livelihoods of millions.
The 1994 imposition of NAFTA was particularly devastating. Just as Bill Clinton and the corporate elites did here, Mexico's ruling elites touted NAFTA as a magic elixir that would generate growth, create jobs, raise wages and eliminate the surge of Mexican migrants into the United States. They were horribly wrong:
- Economic growth in Mexico has been anemic since '94, and the benefits of any growth have gone overwhelmingly to the wealthiest families.
- Since NAFTA, Mexico has created less than a third of the millions of decent jobs it needs.
- Average factory wages in Mexico have dropped by more than 5 percent under NAFTA.
- Unemployment has jumped, and unskilled workers are paid only $5 a day.
- U.S. agribusiness corporations have more than doubled their shipment of subsidized crops into Mexico, busting the price that indigenous farmers got for their production and displacing some 2 million peasant farmers from their land.
- Huge agribusiness operations, many owned by U.S. investors, now control Mexican agricultural production and pay farmworkers under $2 an hour.
- Since NAFTA passed, there has been a flood of business bankruptcies and takeovers in Mexico as predatory U.S. chains have moved in. U.S. corporations now control 40 percent of the country's formal jobs, with Wal-Mart reigning as the No. 1 employer.
- Nineteen million more Mexicans live in poverty today than when NAFTA was passed.
So, here's the deal: Thanks to Mexico's newly corporatized economy, wage earners there get poverty pay of $5 a day (about $1,600 a year), while a few hundred miles north, they might draw that much in an hour. What would you do?
The wrong debate
In our national imbroglio over Mexican immigration (yes, some illegal migrants come from elsewhere, but more than three-fourths are from Mexico), our "leaders" have set us up to look down at impoverished working people forced to leave their homeland and risk death in order to help their families escape poverty.
Instead of coming down on them, why not start looking up -- up at the executive suites on both sides of the border. Up is where the power is. The moneyed elites in those suites are the profiteering few who have rigged all of our trade and labor policies to knock down workers, farmers and small businesses, not merely in Mexico but in our country as well.
In the United States, the middle class feels imperiled because ... well, because it is imperiled. Politicians, economists and the richly paid pundits keep telling us that the American economy is robust and that people's financial pessimism and anxieties are irrational. At the kitchen table level, however, folks know the difference between chicken salad and chicken manure. Yes, these are boom times for the luxury class, but the middle class is imploding. In a recent letter to the editor, a working stiff in California put it this way:
"We've replaced steaks with corn flakes; we can't afford to get sick; our kids can't afford health insurance; we hope that our 10-year-old van keeps running because we can't afford a new one; our kids can't buy a home because housing prices are exorbitant; our purchasing power continually regresses; and worst of all, the poverty and near-poverty classes are growing."It's this economic fragility that anti-immigrant forces play on. But even if there were no illegal workers in our country -- none -- the fragility would remain, for poor Mexican laborers are not the ones who:
- Downsized and offshored our middle-class jobs.
- Perverted our bankruptcy laws to let corporations abrogate their union contracts.
- Stopped enforcement of America's wage and hour laws.
- Perverted the National Labor Relations Board into an anti-worker tool for corporations.
- Illegally reclassified millions of employees as "independent contractors," leaving them with no benefits or labor rights.
- Subverted the right of workers to organize.
- Turned a blind eye to the re-emergence in America of sweatshops and child labor in everything from the clothing industry to Wal-Mart.
- Made good healthcare a luxury item.
- Let rich campaign donors take over both political parties.
- Passed by hook and crook a continuing series of global-trade scams to enrich the few and knock down the many.
Powerless immigrants didn't do these things to us. The richest, most-powerful, best-connected corporate interests did them. Judy Ancel, director of the Institute for Labor Studies at the University of Missouri, offers this example of Iowa Beef Processors (IBP), the largest meatpacker in the United States, now owned by the multibillion-dollar conglomerate Tyson Foods:
Until the late 1970s, meatpacking was a high-wage industry, with highly skilled workers in charge. Factories were in union cities, union contracts provided good wages and benefits, and unions set professional standards for everything from worker training to safety conditions. Then IBP's executives transformed this beneficial model into today's profiteering system. The factories moved to nonunion cities and rural areas, and lower-skilled workers were hired to do repetitive cuts on speeded-up assembly lines. With Reagan as president, meat-industry lobbyists were able to emasculate labor laws, and unions lost their influence over the workplace, which became much less rewarding and more dangerous. IBP began intensive recruiting of Mexican workers (legal or not) to do what had become very nasty work. In only 20 years, meatpacking wages dropped by roughly half, the union was ousted, and the rate of workplace injury became one of the highest of any industry (more than a fourth of meatpacking workers now suffer "accidents").
The fix
Immigration reform cannot be separated from labor and trade reform. We can't fix the former without dealing with the other two. We must stop the exploitative NAFTAfication of such aspiring economies as Mexico and instead develop genuine grass-roots investment policies that give people there an ability to remain in their homeland. Then we must enforce our own labor laws -- from wage and hour rules to the NLRB -- so as to empower American workers to enforce their own rights.
Eliminating the need to migrate from Mexico and rebuilding the middle-class ladder, here is an "immigration policy" that will work. But it requires us to go right at the corporate kleptocracy that now owns Washington and controls the debate.
We must challenge Democrats, especially, to broaden the debate and to recognize that they must choose sides -- to be for workers or for more trade imperialism. Right now, the Democratic leadership is siding with imperialism and exacerbating the economic causes of Latino migration. For example, just last month, Speaker Nancy Pelosi engineered a vote to extend NAFTA to Peru, a corporate favor that could be called the Tom-Rahm Bipartisan Axis of Immigration Stupidity, for it drew enthusiastic support from both Tom Tancredo and Rahm Emanuel.
America's immigration problem is not down on the border, it's in Washington and on Wall Street.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: chomsky on Feb 7, 2008 12:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hum... I can hear the politicians and their corporate friends praising globalisation but I can't exactly understand what is so great about it... Let's see: prices keep going up, wages keep going down (unless you're a CEO) if you are one of the lucky ones who still have a job... Nope, I still don't see how it makes life better.
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» US is not the land of opportunity it once was
Posted by: Richard House
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Feb 7, 2008 2:40 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a good article. But it's too bad we need articles like this to explain the obvious.
With the rank and file anti-immigrant American, you have two barriers between him and reality: ignorance and denial. Ignorance is self-explanatory. Denial is more difficult to break through, because it's cognitively and politically easier to beat up on some poor dirty immigrant than to confront the root problems outlined in this article. Good luck with that.
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» RE: Duh
Posted by: ellie
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Posted by: Democritus on Feb 7, 2008 4:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My suggestion is that we reframe the dialogue to speak about the problem of corporate greed. If we repeal NAFTA, and instead pass laws that squelch corporate greed, then the only illegal activity to worry about will be that of corporate criminality.
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» RE: eframe the dialogue
Posted by: using
» RE: Reframe the dialogue
Posted by: TheLimit
» RE: eframe the dialogue
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE:frame the dialogue
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: frame the dialogue
Posted by: JPerry
» The solution is NOT that simple.
Posted by: zizizzi
» RE: frame the dialogue
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: frame the dialogue
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: frame the dialogue
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: frame the dialogue
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Reframe the dialogue (and think outside the box)
Posted by: nochicagoboys
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Posted by: rickiey on Feb 7, 2008 4:40 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are hardworking people who do things the right way, and come to America because they know that in America lies the freedom to earn a better life. The US was founded on this type if immigrant, they are welcome here and we need more of them. Over half a million of these welcome additions to our country came here last year alone. They are the legal immigrants, who respect law, and do things the right way.
The other type is the lazy type who believes the world owes them. They think that their situation makes them exempt from laws. They come to the US illegally, because they don't have a problem basing their entire lifestyle around committing a crime. If they did, they would have entered the country legally, now wouldn't they?
It is time to treat Americans, whether born here or legal immigrants, like Americans.
It is also time to treat people who commit crimes, like people who commit crimes.
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» There are three types of immigrant, not two
Posted by: colinmeister
» RE: There are three types of immigrant, not two
Posted by: olderworker
» Freedom.
Posted by: colinmeister
» RE: Freedom.
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: Freedom.
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: There are three types of immigrant, not two
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: It is the willingness for ignorance
Posted by: MeridaLady
» RE: It is the willingness for ignorance
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Legality is not an option for the POOR!
Posted by: MeridaLady
» soon people in the USA won't be able to feed our families
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: soon people in the USA won't be able to feed our families
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» it's amazing how entitled illegals think they should be when americans are broke and hungry.
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Legality is not an option for the POOR!
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» They can work for change in their countries
Posted by: JPerry
» RE: They can work for change in their countries
Posted by: AmeriPole
» RE: They can work for change in their countries
Posted by: TheLimit
» RE: They can work for change in their countries
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: They can work for change in their countries
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Legality is not an option for the POOR!
Posted by: rickiey
» Response from so called "illegal alien"
Posted by: AmeriPole
» RE: esponse from so called "illegal alien"
Posted by: rickiey
» To rickiey...
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: To rickiey...
Posted by: rickiey
» You've got to be pretty desperate...
Posted by: Tim Brown
» RE: You've got to be pretty desperate...
Posted by: lenioui
» RE: You've got to be pretty desperate...
Posted by: rickiey
» That's very funny.
Posted by: Artkansas
» RE: It not the race, it is the willingness to commit crimes.
Posted by: drmeow
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Posted by: HBoyer on Feb 7, 2008 5:40 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Illegal Aliens are just one more step in the implementation of the North American Union.
Open Borders between Mexico, USA, Canada.
Corporate America, the Republican Party, the Democratic Party, the Federal Reserve, the Greedy rich in America want the NORTH AMERICAN UNION.
It will guarantee peasant wages for 80% of Americans.
The Patriot Act (Gestapo Manifesto) and Home Land Security (Gestapo Headquarters) have taken away portions of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution in order to stop any protests when congress and the white house to implement the North American Union.
No matter which party comes into power the North American Union will be implemented by 2015.
So if we allow 20 million plus illegal aliens to receive citizenship and not send them back to their country of origin to reapply for visas to enter this country we will be supporting the implementation of the NORTH AMERICAN UNION.
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» RE: HOGWASH
Posted by: grkjr
» RE: HOGWASH
Posted by: doubter
» RE: HOGWASH
Posted by: TheLimit
» RE: HOGWASH
Posted by: doubter
» RE: HOGWASH is what you call Mr. Boyer's stupid, racist and paranoid nationalism. Plus he's wrong
Posted by: yellow
» RE: HOGWASH is what you call Mr. Boyer's stupid, racist and paranoid nationalism. Plus he's wrong
Posted by: AmeriPole
» RE: HOGWASH is what you call Mr. Boyer's stupid, racist and paranoid nationalism. Plus he's wrong
Posted by: TheLimit
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Posted by: war_on_tara on Feb 7, 2008 5:47 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ay yai yai!
The news here in New England is how Brazil's economy has improved so greatly in recent years - no thanks to the US! - under that wild-eyed radical Lula (too smart to join NAFTA), that the Brazilians here are now going home in droves.
In fact I thought from the headline of this article it would go into that sort of thing. With the US economy tanking like it is, that's one way to get many of the illegal immigrants to go home, isn't it? It may take awhile to start making Mexico look good, but we may get there sooner than you think!
Obama seems at least to have a little sense about all this. Won't talk about repealing NAFTA of course but he talks about "working with Mexico to improve job growth there" and similar stuff. You know the Clintons of WalMart aren't going to do anything about that in their third term.
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» RE: Wow - just when you think you've heard it all!
Posted by: monkeywrench
» RE: Wow - just when you think you've heard it all!
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Wow - just when you think you've heard it all!
Posted by: AmeriPole
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Posted by: maxpayne on Feb 7, 2008 5:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: JPHickey on Feb 7, 2008 6:02 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This writer, regardless of his merits is safely enconsed in the "annointed", well-positioned meritocratic class.
Certainly some good things can come from the high view of the advantaged-class catbird seat, since he believes he will never have his nose stuck in the underclass mire where our very own citizens of greatest need find ourselves grovelling with illegal aliens for a crust of bread, a few alms for a roof over our head, or even a little compassion.
Meanwhile the boarderline psychopath neocons continue to cut us down to size as though they would love to just see us crawl under a viaduct and disappear. You know who I'm talking about, the old, the veterans, the ill, the young, and so on.
Our lives cannot wait until the ill-conceived correct the disasterous politicies that have dragged down the Mexican economy and our own, as well!
We don't want illegal aliens lowering our wages or standing in line in front of us at the food bank or emergency room, and who knows what else.
Any article written by the overlord class that refers to illegal aliens as "immigants" is using propaganda methodology to confuse the issue and ultimately blame the victims.
So many of these high-and-mighty types prance around calling themselves Christians, yet they are unable to feel anything in their heats for our own needy and deserving citizens.
Instead, we're exected to bear the brunt of this uninvited and illegal migration, all the while the "superior financial autocrats" of Mexico, aka Duby's buddies, have wealth that equals or exceeds the billionaires in the United States.
What I want is for us to give a helping hand and/or a leg up to our own citizens, and take care of the other miserable issues in D.C. or other obscure place.
Consider the alternatives. Elitists would never tolerate arrangements that the rest of us are expected to embrace, like abandoning our national boarders and allowing the informal integration of all the peoples of the world if they were forced to beg for handouts at the end of the line.
I doubt that, as the depression deepens, our citizens at the bottom of the heap will suddenly see the light, and open their pocketbooks and hearts to all the needy peoples of the world, especially as homelessness grows. Wake up and smell the coffee! And stop blaming the victims!
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» RE: Two separate issues + the usual critizism
Posted by: grkjr
» RE: Two separate issues + the usual critizism
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: Two separate issues + the usual critizism
Posted by: Marlena
» The word psychopath is the modern word for a witch
Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» RE: The word psychopath is the modern word for a witch
Posted by: Rishy
» RE: The word psychopath is the modern word for a witch
Posted by: andabottleof_rum
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Posted by: duckcreek99 on Feb 7, 2008 6:09 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: duckcreek99 - Give it up!
Posted by: wireup
» RE: duckcreek99
Posted by: AmeriPole
» RE: duckcreek99
Posted by: TheLimit
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Posted by: Brez on Feb 7, 2008 6:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let’s just look at some facts instead:
We already have the most liberal immigration policy of most, if not all, developed nations.
Everyone else in the world cannot live here. We’re pretty full just in terms of infrastructure and services alone.
A de facto corporate agenda to undermine the living wage of American citizens is driving our current non-existent enforcement of immigration law in order to further marginalize the working poor and the middle class. Jobs, not race, is the counterpoint to this.
Unsecure borders invite terrorist infiltration, which will only worsen as we withdraw from the ill-conceived and ill-executed Iraq fiasco.
Illegal immigrants cost millions in education, health care, crime, lost wages (for legal labor), and welfare. They drive Americans and legal immigrants onto welfare or into McJobs.
Those most in need of the jobs taken by illegals are the poor and our legal immigrants; they are the ones who suffer the most.
There are NO jobs Americans won’t do. All we ask is a proper wage, at least a minimum wage. Don’t take my word for it – ask your sanitation worker.
For all you race-mongers out there, please don’t consider this as applying to Hispanics. It applies to Asians, Indians, Russians, Canadians, and anyone and everyone not an American citizen or legal immigrant regardless of race or national origin.
Now please consider the following solutions:
REPEAL NAFTA!
Make it a felony to employ illegal immigrants. Illegal aliens themselves should be considered as misdemeanants only, with the punishment for a first offence limited to deportation.
Provide NO services whatsoever to anyone who is not an American citizen or legal resident.
Give anyone who wants one a bus or plane ticket home so they can fix their own country.
Stop chain family immigration. Allow only the minor children of legal immigrants to immigrate. Illegals who had children here can take them home with them or not as they choose.
Do not consider any qualifications for immigration other than the above, such as programming skills or degrees – instead, educate and train Americans to do that work. I am certain that there are plenty of trained and capable Americans, but the mantra of corporate greed would rather pay immigrants a pittance, thus further increasing the two-class society that was established a mere six years ago.
What we need to do is to discourage everyone else from wanting to come here, and to discourage those here illegally from wanting to stay. To do otherwise is to betray every American worker who does not have a job, or who cannot advance because someone else is willing to work for a bit more than they can earn in their own country.
Most importantly, do whatever it takes to secure our borders, North and South, and all our ports. The neglect by this administration of true homeland security for a roll of duct tape and perpetual “Condition Yellow” is criminal, even treasonous.
Please be aware that there are a great number of American citizens of all classes and occupations who feel the same, but the incessant use of the false pejorative of racism by corporate shills and one-worlders who either want cheap labor or want to perpetuate their own illegal residency mutes the voice of reason and rationality.
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» RE: Immigration Facts & Solutions
Posted by: rickiey
» We really should take care of "our own" first
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Immigration Facts & Solutions
Posted by: drmeow
» RE: Immigration Facts & Solutions
Posted by: TheLimit
» RE: Immigration Facts & Solutions
Posted by: undrgrndgirl
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Feb 7, 2008 6:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When our country starts to look like the world depicted in the movie Soylent Green, will you be satisfied? Are you prepared to let them move into your house? How about your son giving up that summer job so that an illegal can take it? Are you prepared to take that step yourselves to ease your conscience? Or do you only want to tell others that THEY have to do it?
And spare me that old saw "they do the jobs that we don't want to do". Let me tell you about the packing plants in my area. In the 70's they paid the equivalent of $20/hour. They had NO trouble getting local farmers and rural people to work in them. They had a strong union and it was considered a good middle-class job.
Another tactic of the pro-illegal crowd is to dig up old quotes (like the one in this article about Franklin) to show how the anti-immigrant types were proved wrong. Yes, Franklin may have been wrong 250 years ago, but that doesn't mean that anti-illegals are wrong TODAY. The country is far different then it was in Franklin's time. We are filling up fast, and our infrastructure and resources are already strained. To say that we can bring in more people "because that's what we always did in the past" is no longer valid today.
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» We have enough people already on this planet
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: so--how many IS enough?
Posted by: grkjr
» RE: so--how many IS enough?
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: zak822 on Feb 7, 2008 6:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not about "immigrants". It's about illegal immigrants. Conflating the two distorts the discussion.
Franklin railing against German immigrants who were coming here legally is worlds apart from out current flood of illegal immigrants coming in from Central and South America.
Yes, corporate execs on our side of the border should be held accountable for their role in facilitating the flow of illegal immigrants. The nations below below the border do things very differently and they are not amenable to changing their business practices or dismantling the oligarchies that keep them rich and powerful.
Hightower's argument that this is about whether to "be for workers or for more trade imperialism" is a case building a straw man to knock over.
He simply refuses to recognize that America cannot absorb everyone who wants to better their life by coming here. It's impossible.
zak822
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» RE: Illegal Immigrants
Posted by: Afban
» RE: Illegal Immigrants
Posted by: AmeriPole
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Posted by: using on Feb 7, 2008 6:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, looking up -- is not helping -- since it does not enable us to change their behavior. It is being empowered that will make those in power notice us. HOw can we do that -- short of revolution. Well we can pick a presidential candidate that is willing to enforce our laws and make strong changes. Oh, the media did not give them much play, those that write these wonderful articles did not come out an endorse them, and on their own most people did not recognize what is in their own best interests, and who knows what "behind the scenes" influence the power structure had, so, those like Edwards, are no longer running. Perhaps we can start an undercountry. There is alot of unemployed talent in the class that is beginning to hurt and many who would join us if we began to grow a strong union. We can build an under-economy -- boycotting the "Bad samaritians" that are laid our country to waste, and supporting industries that will cooperate with us. That will send the illegal people home to fix things in their own country or stay here and work with us -- and most important, that will create a more comfortable less comsumerish lifestyle for us.
"lets organize and cut the string tieing us to the "bad samaritans".
If you have a better suggestion let me know. But regardless, the only thing that will help is if there are many of us working together.
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» RE: Ignorance is bliss
Posted by: MeridaLady
» Why does Mexico refuse entry of Central Americans?
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: When a countries people don't have food to eat?
Posted by: MeridaLady
» compassion needs to keep on going.
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Mexico is Raped by the US Neocons daily
Posted by: MeridaLady
» Mexico is also at fault
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Mexico is Raped by which US Neocons daily??
Posted by: yellow
» Mexicans are not starving, they have food to eat
Posted by: JPerry
» RE: Ignorance is bliss or responsiblity
Posted by: aprendi
» RE: Ignorance is bliss
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: evolution instead of revolution
Posted by: constantreader
» RE: evolution instead of revolution
Posted by: using
» RE: evolution instead of revolution
Posted by: constantreader
» RE: evolution instead of revolution
Posted by: using
» This is a most interesting exchange. I've never seen such high levels of sensitive new age toxicity
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Feb 7, 2008 7:28 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But yeah, it doesnt help that we use both overt and covert methods to blow out latin american economies and then loot them. And then set up grossly unfair heavyhanded trade deals. The thing that really sucks about our idiotic free trade agreements is not only are they unfair, but theyre also not very smart. They dont make optimal use of the land. For example of something that makes sense, we grow corn and brazil grows sugar. This makes sense because brazil has the kind of heavy sunlight and rainfall required to grow a high energy yielding plant like sugar cane. Sadly the vast majority of these trade deals do not promote efficiency, they simply promote profits for shortsighted investors. Tearing down rainforests for grazing land is another example. The rainforest has such diversity of life. We dont know even a fraction of whats in the rainforests that we are destroying. Its so foolish. Huge loss of potential future income... For what? So we can have more beef patties?
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» Icon-Can you explain your 1st paragraph?
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Birth Control
Posted by: MeridaLady
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Posted by: Phenix on Feb 7, 2008 8:00 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: grn1 on Feb 7, 2008 9:06 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Feb 7, 2008 9:13 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This benefits billionaires, but no one else. Funds can move in and out of countries without tariffs - slosh, slosh, slosh.
None of the candidates will lift a finger to stop that, and none will discuss it either.
This has been known for decades. Mexico: NAFTA corn liberalization fails farmers, environment, 2000
"And, due to market imperfections and segmentation, the expected benefits in terms of lower consumer prices for maize products have failed to materialize, and the prices of ‘tortilla’ (thin flat unleavened bread made of corn and eaten hot) has actually risen."
That's 2000 - NAFTA led to market manipulation by U.S. agribusiness. It wasn't the use of corn for ethanol in the U.S. that destroyed small-scale Mexican agriculture - it was monopolistic practices by U.S. agribusiness corporations, which were backed by the U.S. government's trade agreements.
That created massive unemployment in Mexico, leading to more migration to the U.S. - where those once-independent Mexican farmers now labor for the U.S. agribusiness and construction industries at sub-par wages.
Duh. Why are racists so stupid?
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Posted by: wagadog on Feb 7, 2008 9:25 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As with any spoof, it's the opposite of the real story, but -- man, globalization is even worse than we thought it could be.
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» RE: Illegal Immigrants Returning To Mexico For American Jobs
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: Old Skeptic on Feb 7, 2008 9:41 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The millions of uneducated, unskilled, poor peasants who are being shoved across our border by Mexico and other Latin countries are draining more tax money from our economy than they will ever pay enough in taxes to equal. Their children's education, medical care, even the cost of birth, is paid for by the American taxpayer. In return, many of these people work for cash and pay only taxes they can't escape, like sales taxes. They don't pay their way. They send money back to Mexico, instead of spending it here to bolster our economy. IMO, they are in too many cases leeches, who are draining our economy to benefit Mexico in one way or another.
Mexico gets rid of its surplus people, who might organize and overthrow the status quo if they stayed home. We get to pay for them. What a deal...for Mexico!
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» Worth repeating.
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Feb 7, 2008 10:08 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I welcome all who wish to come and participate in the experiment that is America with one set of qualifications:
1- Love America first-not the old country.
2- Learn the common language - don't expect us to learn yours.
3- Respect the diversity that is this country.
If those are met, I have no problem.
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» RE: Slavery Of Citizenship
Posted by: using
» RE: Slavery Of Citizenship
Posted by: AmeriPole
» if you know anything about the history of immigrants:
Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» RE: if you know anything about the history of immigrants:
Posted by: NoPCZone
Comments are closed-
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Feb 7, 2008 10:31 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
NAFTA was touted as an elixir to stimulate North America's economy to promote or accelerate the flow of commerce between the three big countries.
But as have witnessed, NAFTA is now an anathema and has seriously impacted the Mexican and the American economies. The idea has gone horribly wrong. It has created more poor people and disrupted a way of life for many citizens for good. The life they used to live has vanished due to policy.
Next, all this money appropriated to build a fence will not work. Are we fencing ourselves in?
A fence will limit our imagination of the human spirit and deprive animals of a vital food source. By placing a physical boundary on the human spirit enhances our fears and terminates our compassion. We stunt our embrace of diversity, and put our hopes in the mold of sameness. ("If you're white, you're alright").
Any wall or boundary cannot stand forever. If something gets in a person's way they'll circumvent it. See what's going on in Egypt.
Legislation is enacted to reinforce our xenophobic attitude, because we say they're here to do this and that without a philosophical bent and we deny others to subscribe to the "American" dream. And if that doesn't work, force is used or vigilantism unfolds. And innocents get hurt. The newcomers are guilty of having a different color who speak a foreign tongue who also have a different style of religion.
There was a time when strangers were welcomed here. Apprehension and apathy raises anxiety to people when times are hard. Middle class Americans are fretting about the loss of entitlements and laying the accusation squarely on the newcomers. Well, if corporations backed by legislation didn't interefere with the economy they wouldn't have to cross a border to earn a living. And Americans realize they cannot move freely across a border and make a COMPARABLE life to the one here. It is unlikey that a civil engineer would move to Quintana Roo and earn the same amount of pay as in Cincinnati.
We huddle now during this critical juncture where the fight to survive puts "US" against "THEM." This isn't a football game nor a war. We can live together if we're willing to put aside our differences.
We can get ourselves out of this malaise we're in; and the answer, lastly, lies in our hearts.
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» RE: But NAFTA hasn't gone wrong
Posted by: TheLimit
» NAFTA works as designed
Posted by: Knot_Rich
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Posted by: oregoncharles on Feb 7, 2008 10:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Make it worth their while to go home. Face it: most of them would like to. Very few people emigrate for the fun of it: few enough that we needn't worry about them, and are mostly glad to have them. And crossing the border illegally is a nightmare that no one would undertake unless they're desperate.
So large numbers of desperate immigrants are really economic refugees, and pose a humanitarian challenge. That's why they pose a dilemma for anyone with a heart.
The real solution is to end the policies that make them desperate in the first place, especially since the same policies are destroying American jobs and the American economy.
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» RE: Thanks, Jim,
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: Thanks, Jim,
Posted by: using
» RE: Thanks, Jim,
Posted by: using
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Posted by: Quannah on Feb 7, 2008 11:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If they can get the American people to focus on this trumped-up "Illegal Alien" ruse, people won't pay attention to what they are really doing - namely dismantling our system of government from the inside out, taking away our constitutionally-given rights, plundering the wealth of this nation with two dispicable wars (not to mention the behemoth GWOT!), and on and on and on.
As long as there are water-carriers like Lou Dobbs and Michael Savage and many others who will try to scare the bejeezus out of the American people by spouting lie after unbelievable lie (percentage of "illegals" that are incarcerated in the US; amount of money spent for healthcare for "illegals"; number of jobs taken by "illegals"; "illegals" voting for Democrats in elections, etc., etc., etc.) this fraud will continue to be perpetrated against us. It's easy to blame "others" when the shit hits the fan here at home.
To place blame, you need look no further than 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
As long as we let them get away with this "Ponzi Scheme" we will continue to pull our hair out with frustration over lack of accountability and this administrations blatant lawlessness.
Thanks to Jim Hightower for speaking TRUTH TO POWER! He is one of the few voices we have left that is not afraid to state emphatically:
"The Emperor has no clothes!"
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» RE: It's the age-old "Magic Trick!"
Posted by: using
» RE: It's the age-old "Magic Trick!"
Posted by: Quannah
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Posted by: meesajean on Feb 7, 2008 11:16 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyways- thanks for the article!
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Posted by: symcokid on Feb 7, 2008 11:17 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We need to tend to the multitude of problems that we have here in this country, the rest of the Nations can take care of themselves. Who in to hell empowers this country to deem themselves as the "World's Police" anyway?
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» RE: Tear down your intentions of a wall America.
Posted by: using
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Posted by: Southern Gal on Feb 7, 2008 11:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: In the Same Boat
Posted by: using
» RE: In the Same Boat
Posted by: Knot_Rich
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Posted by: grn1 on Feb 7, 2008 11:42 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Floresta on Feb 7, 2008 12:50 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The 'fence', the funding for it and the (gag) Homeland Security umbrella (!national emergency!, no rights for ya'll)is as fascist as it gets. The Question to ask (always)is "qui bono???". Well, my dears it surely ain't us regular folks, as precious little is tricklin' down now...
Divide and conquer has been the means and the method of keeping us 'regular folks' from fomenting and creating real change, time out of mind.
Please remember that as we slide into resession,and read some of this nation's history for god's sake!
There are not just 'never hads' (the poor), but a whole new class of 'use to haves'(the fading middle class).
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Posted by: YogiBear on Feb 7, 2008 1:04 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Polls show -- as do conversations at any Chat & Chew Cafe in the country -- that there is a deep and genuine alarm about the issue among the nonxenophobic, nonracist American majority.
Yoiks! How did this one slip past the Alternet staff! Maybe they outsourced their onesided vetting process to Thailand.
Instead of coming down on them, why not start looking up -- up at the executive suites on both sides of the border. Up is where the power is. The moneyed elites in those suites are the profiteering few who have rigged all of our trade and labor policies to knock down workers, farmers and small businesses, not merely in Mexico but in our country as well.
Why say instead? Why not attack the problem from all sides?
In the United States, the middle class feels imperiled because ... well, because it is imperiled. Yes, these are boom times for the luxury class, but the middle class is imploding.
Powerless immigrants didn't do these things to us.
Of course they didn't. But their very existence in the labor force undermines the entirety of the middle class.
we must enforce our own labor laws -- from wage and hour rules to the NLRB -- so as to empower American workers to enforce their own rights.
Enforcing our labor laws will effectively ban illegals from the workplace. Everyone agrees we should go after the elites. Everyone but the rich, that is. But if we deprive the rich of their cheap source of labor, they're going to have to look elsewhere. It's a lot harder, politically at least, to ship every damn job overseas than it is to sneak cheap labor into those factories and institutions here. We stop the illegals from coming in; we stop them from undermining jobs and wages, while simultaneously going after the NAFTA agreements and corporate ne'er do wells, we'll put those elites in a pincher move that will only have good outcomes for the average American.
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» Then why don't you force the NRA to stop giving guns to "illegals" first?
Posted by: maxpayne
Comments are closed-
Posted by: JPerry on Feb 7, 2008 2:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jim, I spoke with you during the lead up to the 2000 election when I called in to your radio show. I was concerned about what problems the Bush presidency YOU RATIONALIZED, as a hardcore Naderite, would bring about. The poverty and suffering. I knew what would happen to families in my community and around the country, what would happen to my family. You just shouted me down, belittling my legitimate concerns. You preferred to write Bush off as the village idiot that Molly Ivins' popularized him as being.. ignoring the realities you should have been more than familiar with. His connections, his on display cruelties while in office as Texas governor. You simply didn't care.
My worst fears were realized. My wonderful husband, who I'd tried telling you about.. he was waiting for an organ transplant at the time. I explained my concerns about what a Bush presidency would do to worker rights. His appointees to the NLRB, the Labor Dept, OSHA and the Americans with Disabilities Act.. well under Bush, you have to be affluent enough to purchase protection under the law. Like all elites who lack any common experience or compassion with/for the realities, it didn't mean anything to you.
In 2001, my husband's employer found out about his illness, the Americans with Disabilities Act meant nothing to them, they know the poor find it almost impossible to get enforcement under the law.. with lousy appointees, the law has no teeth. The ACLU were more interested in defending a few teenagers in my state, one a boy who attended catholic school and was threatened with suspension because he had long hair and a ponytail, and a girl who attended another private school, and had pink hair and probably 6 or so piercings in her face. What was our life and death case in comparison to such grave threats to "civil liberties" as the problems faced by teenagers whose fashion choices don't conform to school dress and appearance codes. So called "progressives" priorities are out of whack and so selfish and oppressive that they don't deserve to be listened to.
He lost his specialist as he no longer had insurance. It took me two years, on my own fighting to get him medicare. By the time he had it, our public hospital, no longer accepted patients to see specialists at the hospital if they had medicare without supplemental insurance. Their excuse was that the health care crisis was so bad they had to cut someone. There is a huge problem with illegal aliens in my state, and they take a lot of services that should go to citizens.
I fought and sought assistance, to no avail. In May of 2006, my husband was hospitalized because they couldn't refuse to admit him. He had 10 liters of fluid built up in his abdomen. 3 days after admission they diagnosed him with a lymphoma, too far gone to survive. The oncologist told me that if he'd had a specialist, doing the normal tests to moniter the progression of his condition, they would have caught the lymphoma when it was early enough to survive. He died three weeks after being admitted.
I wanted to let you know, Jim, that he was treated like a dog. No common humanity. I want you to know that while I'm sure Molly got suprilative care for her cancer, my husband was treated like garbage. She was a highly intelligent, witty woman, she always seemed down to earth, but all that means little, because she and you as well lacked common decency, empathy and heart. Talking means nothing, it's the walking, the commitment to the issues that is paramount. You Jim, and Molly too treated the issues like a game. The both of you were all liquored up on power, the idea of causing pain to the powerless mean nothing to you. Not even the late Paul Wellstone was pure enough to monsters like you.
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» RE: Jim Hightower ought to be ashamed continued
Posted by: JPerry
» Calm down and get a life.
Posted by: maxpayne
» Pull your head out of your behind and learn something
Posted by: JPerry
» Jim Hightower never "rationalized" imposing Bush on us. Read the article.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: JPerry
Posted by: Quannah
» Wow,someone, or you youreself has steered you way wrong!
Posted by: yale
» JPerry. Sounds like you make a strong case for Universal Health Care.
Posted by: yellow
» You may be right yellow
Posted by: yale
» I think I am correct. The whole thing makes no sense. Why would her husbands death be anyones fault?
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: NABNYC on Feb 7, 2008 3:20 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The businesses have turned entire industries over to low-wage illegal immigrants. Construction, for example, used to pay $18-25/hour for experienced carpenters, but now pays $6/hour for illegal immigrants. All the money that is "saved" by hiring illegals is put into the pockets of the developer, by the way, not passed along to consumers as the business myth would have it.
Visas are also used to import engineers, technical workers, nurses, doctors, and there is pressure on Congress to increase those visas to an unrestricted number. It's currently about 200,000/year professional jobs in this country being given to professionals from, for example, India, for 1/4 what an American would be paid. This has got to stop.
Nothing against the immigrants, but sorry, whatever their reasons, whatever the cause of their plight sorry, they can't have my job. Or my familys' jobs, or my neighbors' jobs. See, if my neighbors don't have work they can't do business with me, then I go broke.
It's so silly to suggest Americans should give their jobs up to people from some other country because we should feel sorry for them. Have a fundraiser if you want, but don't expect working people to give up their jobs.
Not to mention the downward pressure on wages for everyone, loss of benefits, loss of job security. This whole system is crushing American working people, and it's got to end.
Seal the borders. Halt all immigration. Issue an order of deportation for everyone who is not here legally.
Then, for people with long-term residency and ties, long-term members of the community, have an amnesty program -- they apply, it is not automatic.
For someone who came here a week ago, or even years ago, it does not mean they should be automatically entitled to stay. Two years in another country does not create some vested rights. Most of us live many places in our lives, and being required to go home is not punishment -- it's just the result of having come here illegally in the first place.
Look around at the truckers coming in from Mexico. They will take all the short and long-haul jobs in this country, throw more Americans out of work, destroy the Teamsters' union. The plan is to shut down the Long Beach port, ship everything in to Mexico, truck it up to the U.S., and destroy the Longshoremen's Union as well.
This is a war. Not against the immigrants per se, but against the business and elite forces in this country who are trying to destroy working people and take from them everything that we have, all the rights from the 8 hour day, to paid vacation, health insurance, pensions, seniority -- it's all being taken away and the savings are going into the pockets of people like Bush and Cheney. It is a war and people need to be clear about which side they are on.
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» RE: Progressives Support Closed Borders
Posted by: sofla100
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Posted by: sofla100 on Feb 7, 2008 3:29 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Trust fundies scapegoating America's poor ought to be ashamed!!
Posted by: JPerry
» Deporting "illegals" alone never gave Americans back their job at standard American wages.
Posted by: maxpayne
» Deporting illegals does get Americans their jobs and wage standards back. Does that make you angry?
Posted by: JPerry
» RE: Deporting illegals does get Americans their jobs and wage standards back. Does that make you angry?
Posted by: yellow
» Deporting illegals does get Americans their jobs
Posted by: YogiBear
» His whole attitude is hateful. By the way I believe its a SHE.
Posted by: yellow
» hateful
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: desidid on Feb 7, 2008 4:36 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know that it is popular to parrot the "Illegal aliens take crap jobs that American don't take and don't want" but, it simply isn't true. And just saying it doesn't make it true. Please read this testimony by Barbara Jordan from 1995. One of the things that her committee noted, was in areas where there were few illegal immigrants, Americans were doing the jobs that Americans supposedly didn't or wouldn't want to do. Also pay attention to the language in this testimony, you will find that nothing new has been added to this conversation in over 10 years.
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» RE: Barbara Jordan said it in 1995
Posted by: JPerry
» I'm a fan of Barbara Jordan Too.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: I'm a fan of Barbara Jordan Too.
Posted by: desidid
» Perhaps were watching different media. Which media portray those who oppose illegals as racist
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Perhaps were watching different media. Which media portray those who oppose illegals as racist
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Perhaps were watching different media. Which media portray those who oppose illegals as racist
Posted by: yellow
» those who oppose illegals as racist
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: I'm a fan of crack pipe smoking Too.
Posted by: YogiBear
» I just can't seem to blame the recession and subprime crisis on Illegal immigrants.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: I just can't seem to blame the recession and subprime crisis on Illegal immigrants.
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: I just can't seem to blame the recession and subprime crisis on Illegal immigrants.
Posted by: rickiey
» Saying illegals are basing their lives on committing a crime because they dodged ICE is ridiculous
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Saying illegals are basing their lives on committing a crime because they dodged ICE is ridiculo
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Saying illegals are basing their lives on committing a crime because they dodged ICE is ridiculo
Posted by: aquariansun
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PaulK on Feb 7, 2008 6:05 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One of the networks once reported that the INS put up a second checkpoint deeper into the U.S. It was quite effective at stopping midnight immigration. So effective, in fact, that the local bigtime farmers lobbied to have the checkpoint removed because they couldn't get enough workers. This bodes ill for the "Great Escape" fence. If it works, the government itself will have to cut a hole in their own fence to let people in.
Kind of reminds me of Al Qaeda. If they didn't exist, the Republicans would have to fund them, the better to scare stupid and naive Democratic Congresspeople. If Osama Bin Laden was too stupid to survive on his own, we'd have to let him go for eight years. If the Ayatollah Khomeini didn't want to take American hostages without getting paid off, Reagan would have to funnel Iran/contra money to him.
As a matter of fact, Scott Ritter says we're giving huge amounts of money and weapons right now to people who may in fact be Al Qaeda in Iraq. That's an Alternet story elsewhere.
Have I gotten more cynical or is this site getting to me?
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» You need to get into the real world and meet poor American citizens
Posted by: JPerry
» The term "elitist ideologue" is a hate term. Secondly, you hatred of illegals is racist.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: The term "elitist ideologue" is a hate term. Secondly, you hatred of illegals is racist.
Posted by: desidid
» RE: The term "elitist ideologue" is a hate term. Secondly, you hatred of illegals is racist.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: The term "elitist ideologue" is a hate term. Secondly, you hatred of illegals is racist.
Posted by: desidid
» RE: The term "elitist ideologue" is a hate term. Secondly, you hatred of illegals is racist.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: eosrk on Feb 7, 2008 8:08 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I told you Ben Ben can't bail it out......
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Posted by: HeKnew on Feb 7, 2008 8:17 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then they could put together an "A" team that builds houses and a "B" team that tears them down.
For $5 an hour.
Forever.
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Posted by: richholland on Feb 8, 2008 1:59 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
many Hummers, minivans etc.
An academic person can make a $ 1000 a m0onth.
Still there is hunger on country side. So young boys go illegally to Thailand doing heavy work for maybe $ 2 a day.
Young girls into Prostitution etc.
Strange enough for poor people Socialisme was better; health care. food assurance,fre education, But NO FREEDOM????
Let us face it without cooperation of the USA government the drugsindustry not excists. So without cooperation of civil servants and employers illegal workers donot get a job.In europe an employe has to pay the union salary and the return flight ticket, why USA doesnt have this system.
However capatalisme is not able to give all citizens a fair share.
Hopefully president OBAMA will give Amerika back his place as leader of the free world,
Without help of the corporations so many illegal cannot enter the USA.
There is much hypocrisy about this subject.
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Posted by: mbruton on Feb 8, 2008 2:09 AM
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Posted by: Cybershaman on Feb 8, 2008 7:27 AM
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Last night I watched a program "When Yellowstone Erupts" about the supervolcano that is the caldera of Yellowstone National Park. We are right in the middle of the time period when this thing has popped off before. GPS monitors show that there is a massive magma pool ready to blow at any time, and the fallout would cover most of North America.
I was thinking, this wall between Mexico and the USA could also prevent people from trying to get away from that catastrophe if it ever happens. Walls keep people out, but also keep people IN as well.
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Posted by: Bobby Decker on Feb 8, 2008 9:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(Curently on TALK STAR )
Said it in 1993 N.A.F.T.A.
NO
AMERICAN
FACTORYS
TAKEING
APPLICATIONS
"WERE WERE YOU PEOPLE THEN"
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Posted by: elmysterio on Feb 8, 2008 12:38 PM
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Posted by: commonsense on Feb 9, 2008 9:47 PM
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So, if you've got 15 billion under your pillow, you can pretty much write your own laws, including immigration laws, and import your trained slaves. Doesn't sound 'legal' to me...
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Posted by: desidid on Feb 10, 2008 7:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: johnk100 on Feb 10, 2008 9:00 PM
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You can grow an economy by selling pet rocks to people, but, that leads to a lot of poor trinket-sellers competing for sales and pet-rock tycoons. That's not the way to help people.
Instead, you allow people to create the stuff of life: food, clothing, shelter, transportation, art, music, and education. For this, you pay them well if they do it well. You keep the profit margin to the owners low, by giving the workers the right to organize, strike, and sue. You make sure the workers have education, so they won't be bamboozled by slick talkers.
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Posted by: johnk100 on Feb 10, 2008 9:16 PM
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The reason why is simple: the existence of the welfare state demands that working-age people contribute to the collective wealth, in order to use public services. The rule is usually simple: you have to give before you can get - you have to pay taxes to get your benefits.
Our extremely lax immigration policies are, almost entirely, a right-wing, capitalist project. The only "liberal" aspect is the anti-racism stuff, and that is largely a side effect of the vile racism that usually accompanies these surges of nativist attitude.
The standard position of the left, Marxists, and labor unions is to be against immigration. Right now, though, after a solid 30 years of pro-business interests controlling Washington, and allowing undocumented immigration to flourish, these leftist groups have had to come around to embracing the presence of the immigrant working-class in our communities. Unity is necessary for the class struggle. When the working class is split, more people suffer.
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Posted by: aquariansun on Feb 11, 2008 9:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Paul1939 on Feb 14, 2008 1:31 PM
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I respectfully disagree with Jim Hightower's view, as I perceive it, that 12-20+ million illegal aliens are not a serious problem, and the 1-2 million legal immigrants who enter the country each year are a good thing that progressives should embrace. As I understand what Jim is saying, progressives should put the immigration issue aside, and instead direct our efforts towards controlling corporate greed and its impact on working Americans.
My view is quite different, I see overpopulation (caused by massive immigration, legal and illegal), and US trade policies such as NAFTA, WTO and most favored nation status for China as two sides of the same coin. Together these policies are deconstructing the US middleclass. These policies must be eliminated. If we fail to change the current policies on either side of the coin, the US will become a two-tier society with a very small very rich class at the top, and a very large, very poor worker class at the bottom. The middleclass as we knew before Presidents Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush will cease to exist.
When Democratic candidates speak of the overpopulation side of the coin, I wonder if they have even considered the consequences of the policy choices they promote. Clearly they haven’t if the worst they can see happening if we deny amnesty to 12-20+ million illegal aliens is that somehow we will no longer be a nation of immigrants, or work currently done by illegal aliens won’t get done at all because Americans will refuse to do that kind of work.
As H.L. Mencken said, “…it is in the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting.” If Democrats choose to accept the comfortable lie, the whole country will also reap the difficult and unpleasant consequences. It may be comforting to believe amnesty for 12-20+ million illegal aliens will not hurt US citizens and these poor people just want a better life for their families; the trouble is this belief is simply untrue and will prevent accomplishment of many progressive goals.
California, for example, tried to pass a healthcare program that included illegal aliens, but found they couldn’t afford such a program. The same will be true at the national level. We can either have a comprehensive healthcare program for US citizens, or an unacceptable one if millions of illegal aliens are included.
I offer this very cogent comment I read on another blog, “I have yet to see a valid argument in favor of "more people chasing fewer resources! Overpopulation, congestion, urban sprawl, crime, pollution, lack of affordable housing, failing schools, inadequate health care, diminishing resources, vanishing farm land and green space, depressed wages, increased tax burdens, etc. etc, etc. All of these issues have all been negatively impacted by unconstrained immigration. Enforcing our laws against illegal aliens is not a crime; it's an imperative!”
There are two videos I strongly recommend everyone view, the first is “Immigration by the Numbers,” and the second is "Arithmetic, Population, and Energy." These videos can be found respectively at
(http://www.leechvideo.com/video/view2061008.html) and http://courses.ncssm.edu/ GALLERY/programs/colloquia/bartlett.htm.
It is time for progressives to reject plim flam politicians, talk-show hosts, and writers who ignore science and exhort us to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting.
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Posted by: chomsky on Feb 7, 2008 12:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hum... I can hear the politicians and their corporate friends praising globalisation but I can't exactly understand what is so great about it... Let's see: prices keep going up, wages keep going down (unless you're a CEO) if you are one of the lucky ones who still have a job... Nope, I still don't see how it makes life better.
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» US is not the land of opportunity it once was
Posted by: Richard House
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Feb 7, 2008 2:40 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a good article. But it's too bad we need articles like this to explain the obvious.
With the rank and file anti-immigrant American, you have two barriers between him and reality: ignorance and denial. Ignorance is self-explanatory. Denial is more difficult to break through, because it's cognitively and politically easier to beat up on some poor dirty immigrant than to confront the root problems outlined in this article. Good luck with that.
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» RE: Duh
Posted by: ellie
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Posted by: Democritus on Feb 7, 2008 4:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My suggestion is that we reframe the dialogue to speak about the problem of corporate greed. If we repeal NAFTA, and instead pass laws that squelch corporate greed, then the only illegal activity to worry about will be that of corporate criminality.
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» RE: eframe the dialogue
Posted by: using
» RE: Reframe the dialogue
Posted by: TheLimit
» RE: eframe the dialogue
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE:frame the dialogue
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: frame the dialogue
Posted by: JPerry
» The solution is NOT that simple.
Posted by: zizizzi
» RE: frame the dialogue
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: frame the dialogue
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: frame the dialogue
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: frame the dialogue
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Reframe the dialogue (and think outside the box)
Posted by: nochicagoboys
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Posted by: rickiey on Feb 7, 2008 4:40 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are hardworking people who do things the right way, and come to America because they know that in America lies the freedom to earn a better life. The US was founded on this type if immigrant, they are welcome here and we need more of them. Over half a million of these welcome additions to our country came here last year alone. They are the legal immigrants, who respect law, and do things the right way.
The other type is the lazy type who believes the world owes them. They think that their situation makes them exempt from laws. They come to the US illegally, because they don't have a problem basing their entire lifestyle around committing a crime. If they did, they would have entered the country legally, now wouldn't they?
It is time to treat Americans, whether born here or legal immigrants, like Americans.
It is also time to treat people who commit crimes, like people who commit crimes.
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» There are three types of immigrant, not two
Posted by: colinmeister
» RE: There are three types of immigrant, not two
Posted by: olderworker
» Freedom.
Posted by: colinmeister
» RE: Freedom.
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: Freedom.
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: There are three types of immigrant, not two
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: It is the willingness for ignorance
Posted by: MeridaLady
» RE: It is the willingness for ignorance
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Legality is not an option for the POOR!
Posted by: MeridaLady
» soon people in the USA won't be able to feed our families
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: soon people in the USA won't be able to feed our families
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» it's amazing how entitled illegals think they should be when americans are broke and hungry.
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Legality is not an option for the POOR!
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» They can work for change in their countries
Posted by: JPerry
» RE: They can work for change in their countries
Posted by: AmeriPole
» RE: They can work for change in their countries
Posted by: TheLimit
» RE: They can work for change in their countries
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: They can work for change in their countries
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Legality is not an option for the POOR!
Posted by: rickiey
» Response from so called "illegal alien"
Posted by: AmeriPole
» RE: esponse from so called "illegal alien"
Posted by: rickiey
» To rickiey...
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: To rickiey...
Posted by: rickiey
» You've got to be pretty desperate...
Posted by: Tim Brown
» RE: You've got to be pretty desperate...
Posted by: lenioui
» RE: You've got to be pretty desperate...
Posted by: rickiey
» That's very funny.
Posted by: Artkansas
» RE: It not the race, it is the willingness to commit crimes.
Posted by: drmeow
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Posted by: HBoyer on Feb 7, 2008 5:40 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Illegal Aliens are just one more step in the implementation of the North American Union.
Open Borders between Mexico, USA, Canada.
Corporate America, the Republican Party, the Democratic Party, the Federal Reserve, the Greedy rich in America want the NORTH AMERICAN UNION.
It will guarantee peasant wages for 80% of Americans.
The Patriot Act (Gestapo Manifesto) and Home Land Security (Gestapo Headquarters) have taken away portions of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution in order to stop any protests when congress and the white house to implement the North American Union.
No matter which party comes into power the North American Union will be implemented by 2015.
So if we allow 20 million plus illegal aliens to receive citizenship and not send them back to their country of origin to reapply for visas to enter this country we will be supporting the implementation of the NORTH AMERICAN UNION.
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» RE: HOGWASH
Posted by: grkjr
» RE: HOGWASH
Posted by: doubter
» RE: HOGWASH
Posted by: TheLimit
» RE: HOGWASH
Posted by: doubter
» RE: HOGWASH is what you call Mr. Boyer's stupid, racist and paranoid nationalism. Plus he's wrong
Posted by: yellow
» RE: HOGWASH is what you call Mr. Boyer's stupid, racist and paranoid nationalism. Plus he's wrong
Posted by: AmeriPole
» RE: HOGWASH is what you call Mr. Boyer's stupid, racist and paranoid nationalism. Plus he's wrong
Posted by: TheLimit
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Posted by: war_on_tara on Feb 7, 2008 5:47 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ay yai yai!
The news here in New England is how Brazil's economy has improved so greatly in recent years - no thanks to the US! - under that wild-eyed radical Lula (too smart to join NAFTA), that the Brazilians here are now going home in droves.
In fact I thought from the headline of this article it would go into that sort of thing. With the US economy tanking like it is, that's one way to get many of the illegal immigrants to go home, isn't it? It may take awhile to start making Mexico look good, but we may get there sooner than you think!
Obama seems at least to have a little sense about all this. Won't talk about repealing NAFTA of course but he talks about "working with Mexico to improve job growth there" and similar stuff. You know the Clintons of WalMart aren't going to do anything about that in their third term.
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» RE: Wow - just when you think you've heard it all!
Posted by: monkeywrench
» RE: Wow - just when you think you've heard it all!
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Wow - just when you think you've heard it all!
Posted by: AmeriPole
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Posted by: maxpayne on Feb 7, 2008 5:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: JPHickey on Feb 7, 2008 6:02 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This writer, regardless of his merits is safely enconsed in the "annointed", well-positioned meritocratic class.
Certainly some good things can come from the high view of the advantaged-class catbird seat, since he believes he will never have his nose stuck in the underclass mire where our very own citizens of greatest need find ourselves grovelling with illegal aliens for a crust of bread, a few alms for a roof over our head, or even a little compassion.
Meanwhile the boarderline psychopath neocons continue to cut us down to size as though they would love to just see us crawl under a viaduct and disappear. You know who I'm talking about, the old, the veterans, the ill, the young, and so on.
Our lives cannot wait until the ill-conceived correct the disasterous politicies that have dragged down the Mexican economy and our own, as well!
We don't want illegal aliens lowering our wages or standing in line in front of us at the food bank or emergency room, and who knows what else.
Any article written by the overlord class that refers to illegal aliens as "immigants" is using propaganda methodology to confuse the issue and ultimately blame the victims.
So many of these high-and-mighty types prance around calling themselves Christians, yet they are unable to feel anything in their heats for our own needy and deserving citizens.
Instead, we're exected to bear the brunt of this uninvited and illegal migration, all the while the "superior financial autocrats" of Mexico, aka Duby's buddies, have wealth that equals or exceeds the billionaires in the United States.
What I want is for us to give a helping hand and/or a leg up to our own citizens, and take care of the other miserable issues in D.C. or other obscure place.
Consider the alternatives. Elitists would never tolerate arrangements that the rest of us are expected to embrace, like abandoning our national boarders and allowing the informal integration of all the peoples of the world if they were forced to beg for handouts at the end of the line.
I doubt that, as the depression deepens, our citizens at the bottom of the heap will suddenly see the light, and open their pocketbooks and hearts to all the needy peoples of the world, especially as homelessness grows. Wake up and smell the coffee! And stop blaming the victims!
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» RE: Two separate issues + the usual critizism
Posted by: grkjr
» RE: Two separate issues + the usual critizism
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: Two separate issues + the usual critizism
Posted by: Marlena
» The word psychopath is the modern word for a witch
Posted by: andabottleof_rum
» RE: The word psychopath is the modern word for a witch
Posted by: Rishy
» RE: The word psychopath is the modern word for a witch
Posted by: andabottleof_rum
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Posted by: duckcreek99 on Feb 7, 2008 6:09 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: duckcreek99 - Give it up!
Posted by: wireup
» RE: duckcreek99
Posted by: AmeriPole
» RE: duckcreek99
Posted by: TheLimit
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Posted by: Brez on Feb 7, 2008 6:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let’s just look at some facts instead:
We already have the most liberal immigration policy of most, if not all, developed nations.
Everyone else in the world cannot live here. We’re pretty full just in terms of infrastructure and services alone.
A de facto corporate agenda to undermine the living wage of American citizens is driving our current non-existent enforcement of immigration law in order to further marginalize the working poor and the middle class. Jobs, not race, is the counterpoint to this.
Unsecure borders invite terrorist infiltration, which will only worsen as we withdraw from the ill-conceived and ill-executed Iraq fiasco.
Illegal immigrants cost millions in education, health care, crime, lost wages (for legal labor), and welfare. They drive Americans and legal immigrants onto welfare or into McJobs.
Those most in need of the jobs taken by illegals are the poor and our legal immigrants; they are the ones who suffer the most.
There are NO jobs Americans won’t do. All we ask is a proper wage, at least a minimum wage. Don’t take my word for it – ask your sanitation worker.
For all you race-mongers out there, please don’t consider this as applying to Hispanics. It applies to Asians, Indians, Russians, Canadians, and anyone and everyone not an American citizen or legal immigrant regardless of race or national origin.
Now please consider the following solutions:
REPEAL NAFTA!
Make it a felony to employ illegal immigrants. Illegal aliens themselves should be considered as misdemeanants only, with the punishment for a first offence limited to deportation.
Provide NO services whatsoever to anyone who is not an American citizen or legal resident.
Give anyone who wants one a bus or plane ticket home so they can fix their own country.
Stop chain family immigration. Allow only the minor children of legal immigrants to immigrate. Illegals who had children here can take them home with them or not as they choose.
Do not consider any qualifications for immigration other than the above, such as programming skills or degrees – instead, educate and train Americans to do that work. I am certain that there are plenty of trained and capable Americans, but the mantra of corporate greed would rather pay immigrants a pittance, thus further increasing the two-class society that was established a mere six years ago.
What we need to do is to discourage everyone else from wanting to come here, and to discourage those here illegally from wanting to stay. To do otherwise is to betray every American worker who does not have a job, or who cannot advance because someone else is willing to work for a bit more than they can earn in their own country.
Most importantly, do whatever it takes to secure our borders, North and South, and all our ports. The neglect by this administration of true homeland security for a roll of duct tape and perpetual “Condition Yellow” is criminal, even treasonous.
Please be aware that there are a great number of American citizens of all classes and occupations who feel the same, but the incessant use of the false pejorative of racism by corporate shills and one-worlders who either want cheap labor or want to perpetuate their own illegal residency mutes the voice of reason and rationality.
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» RE: Immigration Facts & Solutions
Posted by: rickiey
» We really should take care of "our own" first
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Immigration Facts & Solutions
Posted by: drmeow
» RE: Immigration Facts & Solutions
Posted by: TheLimit
» RE: Immigration Facts & Solutions
Posted by: undrgrndgirl
Comments are closed-
Posted by: zooeyhall on Feb 7, 2008 6:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When our country starts to look like the world depicted in the movie Soylent Green, will you be satisfied? Are you prepared to let them move into your house? How about your son giving up that summer job so that an illegal can take it? Are you prepared to take that step yourselves to ease your conscience? Or do you only want to tell others that THEY have to do it?
And spare me that old saw "they do the jobs that we don't want to do". Let me tell you about the packing plants in my area. In the 70's they paid the equivalent of $20/hour. They had NO trouble getting local farmers and rural people to work in them. They had a strong union and it was considered a good middle-class job.
Another tactic of the pro-illegal crowd is to dig up old quotes (like the one in this article about Franklin) to show how the anti-immigrant types were proved wrong. Yes, Franklin may have been wrong 250 years ago, but that doesn't mean that anti-illegals are wrong TODAY. The country is far different then it was in Franklin's time. We are filling up fast, and our infrastructure and resources are already strained. To say that we can bring in more people "because that's what we always did in the past" is no longer valid today.
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» We have enough people already on this planet
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: so--how many IS enough?
Posted by: grkjr
» RE: so--how many IS enough?
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: zak822 on Feb 7, 2008 6:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not about "immigrants". It's about illegal immigrants. Conflating the two distorts the discussion.
Franklin railing against German immigrants who were coming here legally is worlds apart from out current flood of illegal immigrants coming in from Central and South America.
Yes, corporate execs on our side of the border should be held accountable for their role in facilitating the flow of illegal immigrants. The nations below below the border do things very differently and they are not amenable to changing their business practices or dismantling the oligarchies that keep them rich and powerful.
Hightower's argument that this is about whether to "be for workers or for more trade imperialism" is a case building a straw man to knock over.
He simply refuses to recognize that America cannot absorb everyone who wants to better their life by coming here. It's impossible.
zak822
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» RE: Illegal Immigrants
Posted by: Afban
» RE: Illegal Immigrants
Posted by: AmeriPole
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Posted by: using on Feb 7, 2008 6:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, looking up -- is not helping -- since it does not enable us to change their behavior. It is being empowered that will make those in power notice us. HOw can we do that -- short of revolution. Well we can pick a presidential candidate that is willing to enforce our laws and make strong changes. Oh, the media did not give them much play, those that write these wonderful articles did not come out an endorse them, and on their own most people did not recognize what is in their own best interests, and who knows what "behind the scenes" influence the power structure had, so, those like Edwards, are no longer running. Perhaps we can start an undercountry. There is alot of unemployed talent in the class that is beginning to hurt and many who would join us if we began to grow a strong union. We can build an under-economy -- boycotting the "Bad samaritians" that are laid our country to waste, and supporting industries that will cooperate with us. That will send the illegal people home to fix things in their own country or stay here and work with us -- and most important, that will create a more comfortable less comsumerish lifestyle for us.
"lets organize and cut the string tieing us to the "bad samaritans".
If you have a better suggestion let me know. But regardless, the only thing that will help is if there are many of us working together.
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» RE: Ignorance is bliss
Posted by: MeridaLady
» Why does Mexico refuse entry of Central Americans?
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: When a countries people don't have food to eat?
Posted by: MeridaLady
» compassion needs to keep on going.
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Mexico is Raped by the US Neocons daily
Posted by: MeridaLady
» Mexico is also at fault
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Mexico is Raped by which US Neocons daily??
Posted by: yellow
» Mexicans are not starving, they have food to eat
Posted by: JPerry
» RE: Ignorance is bliss or responsiblity
Posted by: aprendi
» RE: Ignorance is bliss
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: evolution instead of revolution
Posted by: constantreader
» RE: evolution instead of revolution
Posted by: using
» RE: evolution instead of revolution
Posted by: constantreader
» RE: evolution instead of revolution
Posted by: using
» This is a most interesting exchange. I've never seen such high levels of sensitive new age toxicity
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Feb 7, 2008 7:28 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But yeah, it doesnt help that we use both overt and covert methods to blow out latin american economies and then loot them. And then set up grossly unfair heavyhanded trade deals. The thing that really sucks about our idiotic free trade agreements is not only are they unfair, but theyre also not very smart. They dont make optimal use of the land. For example of something that makes sense, we grow corn and brazil grows sugar. This makes sense because brazil has the kind of heavy sunlight and rainfall required to grow a high energy yielding plant like sugar cane. Sadly the vast majority of these trade deals do not promote efficiency, they simply promote profits for shortsighted investors. Tearing down rainforests for grazing land is another example. The rainforest has such diversity of life. We dont know even a fraction of whats in the rainforests that we are destroying. Its so foolish. Huge loss of potential future income... For what? So we can have more beef patties?
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» Icon-Can you explain your 1st paragraph?
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Birth Control
Posted by: MeridaLady
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Posted by: Phenix on Feb 7, 2008 8:00 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: grn1 on Feb 7, 2008 9:06 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Feb 7, 2008 9:13 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This benefits billionaires, but no one else. Funds can move in and out of countries without tariffs - slosh, slosh, slosh.
None of the candidates will lift a finger to stop that, and none will discuss it either.
This has been known for decades. Mexico: NAFTA corn liberalization fails farmers, environment, 2000
"And, due to market imperfections and segmentation, the expected benefits in terms of lower consumer prices for maize products have failed to materialize, and the prices of ‘tortilla’ (thin flat unleavened bread made of corn and eaten hot) has actually risen."
That's 2000 - NAFTA led to market manipulation by U.S. agribusiness. It wasn't the use of corn for ethanol in the U.S. that destroyed small-scale Mexican agriculture - it was monopolistic practices by U.S. agribusiness corporations, which were backed by the U.S. government's trade agreements.
That created massive unemployment in Mexico, leading to more migration to the U.S. - where those once-independent Mexican farmers now labor for the U.S. agribusiness and construction industries at sub-par wages.
Duh. Why are racists so stupid?
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Posted by: wagadog on Feb 7, 2008 9:25 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As with any spoof, it's the opposite of the real story, but -- man, globalization is even worse than we thought it could be.
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» RE: Illegal Immigrants Returning To Mexico For American Jobs
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: Old Skeptic on Feb 7, 2008 9:41 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The millions of uneducated, unskilled, poor peasants who are being shoved across our border by Mexico and other Latin countries are draining more tax money from our economy than they will ever pay enough in taxes to equal. Their children's education, medical care, even the cost of birth, is paid for by the American taxpayer. In return, many of these people work for cash and pay only taxes they can't escape, like sales taxes. They don't pay their way. They send money back to Mexico, instead of spending it here to bolster our economy. IMO, they are in too many cases leeches, who are draining our economy to benefit Mexico in one way or another.
Mexico gets rid of its surplus people, who might organize and overthrow the status quo if they stayed home. We get to pay for them. What a deal...for Mexico!
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» Worth repeating.
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: NoPCZone on Feb 7, 2008 10:08 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I welcome all who wish to come and participate in the experiment that is America with one set of qualifications:
1- Love America first-not the old country.
2- Learn the common language - don't expect us to learn yours.
3- Respect the diversity that is this country.
If those are met, I have no problem.
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» RE: Slavery Of Citizenship
Posted by: using
» RE: Slavery Of Citizenship
Posted by: AmeriPole
» if you know anything about the history of immigrants:
Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» RE: if you know anything about the history of immigrants:
Posted by: NoPCZone
Comments are closed-
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Feb 7, 2008 10:31 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
NAFTA was touted as an elixir to stimulate North America's economy to promote or accelerate the flow of commerce between the three big countries.
But as have witnessed, NAFTA is now an anathema and has seriously impacted the Mexican and the American economies. The idea has gone horribly wrong. It has created more poor people and disrupted a way of life for many citizens for good. The life they used to live has vanished due to policy.
Next, all this money appropriated to build a fence will not work. Are we fencing ourselves in?
A fence will limit our imagination of the human spirit and deprive animals of a vital food source. By placing a physical boundary on the human spirit enhances our fears and terminates our compassion. We stunt our embrace of diversity, and put our hopes in the mold of sameness. ("If you're white, you're alright").
Any wall or boundary cannot stand forever. If something gets in a person's way they'll circumvent it. See what's going on in Egypt.
Legislation is enacted to reinforce our xenophobic attitude, because we say they're here to do this and that without a philosophical bent and we deny others to subscribe to the "American" dream. And if that doesn't work, force is used or vigilantism unfolds. And innocents get hurt. The newcomers are guilty of having a different color who speak a foreign tongue who also have a different style of religion.
There was a time when strangers were welcomed here. Apprehension and apathy raises anxiety to people when times are hard. Middle class Americans are fretting about the loss of entitlements and laying the accusation squarely on the newcomers. Well, if corporations backed by legislation didn't interefere with the economy they wouldn't have to cross a border to earn a living. And Americans realize they cannot move freely across a border and make a COMPARABLE life to the one here. It is unlikey that a civil engineer would move to Quintana Roo and earn the same amount of pay as in Cincinnati.
We huddle now during this critical juncture where the fight to survive puts "US" against "THEM." This isn't a football game nor a war. We can live together if we're willing to put aside our differences.
We can get ourselves out of this malaise we're in; and the answer, lastly, lies in our hearts.
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» RE: But NAFTA hasn't gone wrong
Posted by: TheLimit
» NAFTA works as designed
Posted by: Knot_Rich
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Posted by: oregoncharles on Feb 7, 2008 10:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Make it worth their while to go home. Face it: most of them would like to. Very few people emigrate for the fun of it: few enough that we needn't worry about them, and are mostly glad to have them. And crossing the border illegally is a nightmare that no one would undertake unless they're desperate.
So large numbers of desperate immigrants are really economic refugees, and pose a humanitarian challenge. That's why they pose a dilemma for anyone with a heart.
The real solution is to end the policies that make them desperate in the first place, especially since the same policies are destroying American jobs and the American economy.
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» RE: Thanks, Jim,
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: Thanks, Jim,
Posted by: using
» RE: Thanks, Jim,
Posted by: using
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Posted by: Quannah on Feb 7, 2008 11:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If they can get the American people to focus on this trumped-up "Illegal Alien" ruse, people won't pay attention to what they are really doing - namely dismantling our system of government from the inside out, taking away our constitutionally-given rights, plundering the wealth of this nation with two dispicable wars (not to mention the behemoth GWOT!), and on and on and on.
As long as there are water-carriers like Lou Dobbs and Michael Savage and many others who will try to scare the bejeezus out of the American people by spouting lie after unbelievable lie (percentage of "illegals" that are incarcerated in the US; amount of money spent for healthcare for "illegals"; number of jobs taken by "illegals"; "illegals" voting for Democrats in elections, etc., etc., etc.) this fraud will continue to be perpetrated against us. It's easy to blame "others" when the shit hits the fan here at home.
To place blame, you need look no further than 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
As long as we let them get away with this "Ponzi Scheme" we will continue to pull our hair out with frustration over lack of accountability and this administrations blatant lawlessness.
Thanks to Jim Hightower for speaking TRUTH TO POWER! He is one of the few voices we have left that is not afraid to state emphatically:
"The Emperor has no clothes!"
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» RE: It's the age-old "Magic Trick!"
Posted by: using
» RE: It's the age-old "Magic Trick!"
Posted by: Quannah
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Posted by: meesajean on Feb 7, 2008 11:16 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyways- thanks for the article!
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Posted by: symcokid on Feb 7, 2008 11:17 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We need to tend to the multitude of problems that we have here in this country, the rest of the Nations can take care of themselves. Who in to hell empowers this country to deem themselves as the "World's Police" anyway?
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» RE: Tear down your intentions of a wall America.
Posted by: using
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Posted by: Southern Gal on Feb 7, 2008 11:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: In the Same Boat
Posted by: using
» RE: In the Same Boat
Posted by: Knot_Rich
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Posted by: grn1 on Feb 7, 2008 11:42 AM
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Posted by: Floresta on Feb 7, 2008 12:50 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The 'fence', the funding for it and the (gag) Homeland Security umbrella (!national emergency!, no rights for ya'll)is as fascist as it gets. The Question to ask (always)is "qui bono???". Well, my dears it surely ain't us regular folks, as precious little is tricklin' down now...
Divide and conquer has been the means and the method of keeping us 'regular folks' from fomenting and creating real change, time out of mind.
Please remember that as we slide into resession,and read some of this nation's history for god's sake!
There are not just 'never hads' (the poor), but a whole new class of 'use to haves'(the fading middle class).
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Posted by: YogiBear on Feb 7, 2008 1:04 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Polls show -- as do conversations at any Chat & Chew Cafe in the country -- that there is a deep and genuine alarm about the issue among the nonxenophobic, nonracist American majority.
Yoiks! How did this one slip past the Alternet staff! Maybe they outsourced their onesided vetting process to Thailand.
Instead of coming down on them, why not start looking up -- up at the executive suites on both sides of the border. Up is where the power is. The moneyed elites in those suites are the profiteering few who have rigged all of our trade and labor policies to knock down workers, farmers and small businesses, not merely in Mexico but in our country as well.
Why say instead? Why not attack the problem from all sides?
In the United States, the middle class feels imperiled because ... well, because it is imperiled. Yes, these are boom times for the luxury class, but the middle class is imploding.
Powerless immigrants didn't do these things to us.
Of course they didn't. But their very existence in the labor force undermines the entirety of the middle class.
we must enforce our own labor laws -- from wage and hour rules to the NLRB -- so as to empower American workers to enforce their own rights.
Enforcing our labor laws will effectively ban illegals from the workplace. Everyone agrees we should go after the elites. Everyone but the rich, that is. But if we deprive the rich of their cheap source of labor, they're going to have to look elsewhere. It's a lot harder, politically at least, to ship every damn job overseas than it is to sneak cheap labor into those factories and institutions here. We stop the illegals from coming in; we stop them from undermining jobs and wages, while simultaneously going after the NAFTA agreements and corporate ne'er do wells, we'll put those elites in a pincher move that will only have good outcomes for the average American.
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» Then why don't you force the NRA to stop giving guns to "illegals" first?
Posted by: maxpayne
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Posted by: JPerry on Feb 7, 2008 2:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jim, I spoke with you during the lead up to the 2000 election when I called in to your radio show. I was concerned about what problems the Bush presidency YOU RATIONALIZED, as a hardcore Naderite, would bring about. The poverty and suffering. I knew what would happen to families in my community and around the country, what would happen to my family. You just shouted me down, belittling my legitimate concerns. You preferred to write Bush off as the village idiot that Molly Ivins' popularized him as being.. ignoring the realities you should have been more than familiar with. His connections, his on display cruelties while in office as Texas governor. You simply didn't care.
My worst fears were realized. My wonderful husband, who I'd tried telling you about.. he was waiting for an organ transplant at the time. I explained my concerns about what a Bush presidency would do to worker rights. His appointees to the NLRB, the Labor Dept, OSHA and the Americans with Disabilities Act.. well under Bush, you have to be affluent enough to purchase protection under the law. Like all elites who lack any common experience or compassion with/for the realities, it didn't mean anything to you.
In 2001, my husband's employer found out about his illness, the Americans with Disabilities Act meant nothing to them, they know the poor find it almost impossible to get enforcement under the law.. with lousy appointees, the law has no teeth. The ACLU were more interested in defending a few teenagers in my state, one a boy who attended catholic school and was threatened with suspension because he had long hair and a ponytail, and a girl who attended another private school, and had pink hair and probably 6 or so piercings in her face. What was our life and death case in comparison to such grave threats to "civil liberties" as the problems faced by teenagers whose fashion choices don't conform to school dress and appearance codes. So called "progressives" priorities are out of whack and so selfish and oppressive that they don't deserve to be listened to.
He lost his specialist as he no longer had insurance. It took me two years, on my own fighting to get him medicare. By the time he had it, our public hospital, no longer accepted patients to see specialists at the hospital if they had medicare without supplemental insurance. Their excuse was that the health care crisis was so bad they had to cut someone. There is a huge problem with illegal aliens in my state, and they take a lot of services that should go to citizens.
I fought and sought assistance, to no avail. In May of 2006, my husband was hospitalized because they couldn't refuse to admit him. He had 10 liters of fluid built up in his abdomen. 3 days after admission they diagnosed him with a lymphoma, too far gone to survive. The oncologist told me that if he'd had a specialist, doing the normal tests to moniter the progression of his condition, they would have caught the lymphoma when it was early enough to survive. He died three weeks after being admitted.
I wanted to let you know, Jim, that he was treated like a dog. No common humanity. I want you to know that while I'm sure Molly got suprilative care for her cancer, my husband was treated like garbage. She was a highly intelligent, witty woman, she always seemed down to earth, but all that means little, because she and you as well lacked common decency, empathy and heart. Talking means nothing, it's the walking, the commitment to the issues that is paramount. You Jim, and Molly too treated the issues like a game. The both of you were all liquored up on power, the idea of causing pain to the powerless mean nothing to you. Not even the late Paul Wellstone was pure enough to monsters like you.
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» RE: Jim Hightower ought to be ashamed continued
Posted by: JPerry
» Calm down and get a life.
Posted by: maxpayne
» Pull your head out of your behind and learn something
Posted by: JPerry
» Jim Hightower never "rationalized" imposing Bush on us. Read the article.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: JPerry
Posted by: Quannah
» Wow,someone, or you youreself has steered you way wrong!
Posted by: yale
» JPerry. Sounds like you make a strong case for Universal Health Care.
Posted by: yellow
» You may be right yellow
Posted by: yale
» I think I am correct. The whole thing makes no sense. Why would her husbands death be anyones fault?
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: NABNYC on Feb 7, 2008 3:20 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The businesses have turned entire industries over to low-wage illegal immigrants. Construction, for example, used to pay $18-25/hour for experienced carpenters, but now pays $6/hour for illegal immigrants. All the money that is "saved" by hiring illegals is put into the pockets of the developer, by the way, not passed along to consumers as the business myth would have it.
Visas are also used to import engineers, technical workers, nurses, doctors, and there is pressure on Congress to increase those visas to an unrestricted number. It's currently about 200,000/year professional jobs in this country being given to professionals from, for example, India, for 1/4 what an American would be paid. This has got to stop.
Nothing against the immigrants, but sorry, whatever their reasons, whatever the cause of their plight sorry, they can't have my job. Or my familys' jobs, or my neighbors' jobs. See, if my neighbors don't have work they can't do business with me, then I go broke.
It's so silly to suggest Americans should give their jobs up to people from some other country because we should feel sorry for them. Have a fundraiser if you want, but don't expect working people to give up their jobs.
Not to mention the downward pressure on wages for everyone, loss of benefits, loss of job security. This whole system is crushing American working people, and it's got to end.
Seal the borders. Halt all immigration. Issue an order of deportation for everyone who is not here legally.
Then, for people with long-term residency and ties, long-term members of the community, have an amnesty program -- they apply, it is not automatic.
For someone who came here a week ago, or even years ago, it does not mean they should be automatically entitled to stay. Two years in another country does not create some vested rights. Most of us live many places in our lives, and being required to go home is not punishment -- it's just the result of having come here illegally in the first place.
Look around at the truckers coming in from Mexico. They will take all the short and long-haul jobs in this country, throw more Americans out of work, destroy the Teamsters' union. The plan is to shut down the Long Beach port, ship everything in to Mexico, truck it up to the U.S., and destroy the Longshoremen's Union as well.
This is a war. Not against the immigrants per se, but against the business and elite forces in this country who are trying to destroy working people and take from them everything that we have, all the rights from the 8 hour day, to paid vacation, health insurance, pensions, seniority -- it's all being taken away and the savings are going into the pockets of people like Bush and Cheney. It is a war and people need to be clear about which side they are on.
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» RE: Progressives Support Closed Borders
Posted by: sofla100
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Posted by: sofla100 on Feb 7, 2008 3:29 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Trust fundies scapegoating America's poor ought to be ashamed!!
Posted by: JPerry
» Deporting "illegals" alone never gave Americans back their job at standard American wages.
Posted by: maxpayne
» Deporting illegals does get Americans their jobs and wage standards back. Does that make you angry?
Posted by: JPerry
» RE: Deporting illegals does get Americans their jobs and wage standards back. Does that make you angry?
Posted by: yellow
» Deporting illegals does get Americans their jobs
Posted by: YogiBear
» His whole attitude is hateful. By the way I believe its a SHE.
Posted by: yellow
» hateful
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: desidid on Feb 7, 2008 4:36 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know that it is popular to parrot the "Illegal aliens take crap jobs that American don't take and don't want" but, it simply isn't true. And just saying it doesn't make it true. Please read this testimony by Barbara Jordan from 1995. One of the things that her committee noted, was in areas where there were few illegal immigrants, Americans were doing the jobs that Americans supposedly didn't or wouldn't want to do. Also pay attention to the language in this testimony, you will find that nothing new has been added to this conversation in over 10 years.
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» RE: Barbara Jordan said it in 1995
Posted by: JPerry
» I'm a fan of Barbara Jordan Too.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: I'm a fan of Barbara Jordan Too.
Posted by: desidid
» Perhaps were watching different media. Which media portray those who oppose illegals as racist
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Perhaps were watching different media. Which media portray those who oppose illegals as racist
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Perhaps were watching different media. Which media portray those who oppose illegals as racist
Posted by: yellow
» those who oppose illegals as racist
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: I'm a fan of crack pipe smoking Too.
Posted by: YogiBear
» I just can't seem to blame the recession and subprime crisis on Illegal immigrants.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: I just can't seem to blame the recession and subprime crisis on Illegal immigrants.
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: I just can't seem to blame the recession and subprime crisis on Illegal immigrants.
Posted by: rickiey
» Saying illegals are basing their lives on committing a crime because they dodged ICE is ridiculous
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Saying illegals are basing their lives on committing a crime because they dodged ICE is ridiculo
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Saying illegals are basing their lives on committing a crime because they dodged ICE is ridiculo
Posted by: aquariansun
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Posted by: PaulK on Feb 7, 2008 6:05 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One of the networks once reported that the INS put up a second checkpoint deeper into the U.S. It was quite effective at stopping midnight immigration. So effective, in fact, that the local bigtime farmers lobbied to have the checkpoint removed because they couldn't get enough workers. This bodes ill for the "Great Escape" fence. If it works, the government itself will have to cut a hole in their own fence to let people in.
Kind of reminds me of Al Qaeda. If they didn't exist, the Republicans would have to fund them, the better to scare stupid and naive Democratic Congresspeople. If Osama Bin Laden was too stupid to survive on his own, we'd have to let him go for eight years. If the Ayatollah Khomeini didn't want to take American hostages without getting paid off, Reagan would have to funnel Iran/contra money to him.
As a matter of fact, Scott Ritter says we're giving huge amounts of money and weapons right now to people who may in fact be Al Qaeda in Iraq. That's an Alternet story elsewhere.
Have I gotten more cynical or is this site getting to me?
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» You need to get into the real world and meet poor American citizens
Posted by: JPerry
» The term "elitist ideologue" is a hate term. Secondly, you hatred of illegals is racist.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: The term "elitist ideologue" is a hate term. Secondly, you hatred of illegals is racist.
Posted by: desidid
» RE: The term "elitist ideologue" is a hate term. Secondly, you hatred of illegals is racist.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: The term "elitist ideologue" is a hate term. Secondly, you hatred of illegals is racist.
Posted by: desidid
» RE: The term "elitist ideologue" is a hate term. Secondly, you hatred of illegals is racist.
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: eosrk on Feb 7, 2008 8:08 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I told you Ben Ben can't bail it out......
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Posted by: HeKnew on Feb 7, 2008 8:17 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then they could put together an "A" team that builds houses and a "B" team that tears them down.
For $5 an hour.
Forever.
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Posted by: richholland on Feb 8, 2008 1:59 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
many Hummers, minivans etc.
An academic person can make a $ 1000 a m0onth.
Still there is hunger on country side. So young boys go illegally to Thailand doing heavy work for maybe $ 2 a day.
Young girls into Prostitution etc.
Strange enough for poor people Socialisme was better; health care. food assurance,fre education, But NO FREEDOM????
Let us face it without cooperation of the USA government the drugsindustry not excists. So without cooperation of civil servants and employers illegal workers donot get a job.In europe an employe has to pay the union salary and the return flight ticket, why USA doesnt have this system.
However capatalisme is not able to give all citizens a fair share.
Hopefully president OBAMA will give Amerika back his place as leader of the free world,
Without help of the corporations so many illegal cannot enter the USA.
There is much hypocrisy about this subject.
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Posted by: mbruton on Feb 8, 2008 2:09 AM
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Posted by: Cybershaman on Feb 8, 2008 7:27 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Last night I watched a program "When Yellowstone Erupts" about the supervolcano that is the caldera of Yellowstone National Park. We are right in the middle of the time period when this thing has popped off before. GPS monitors show that there is a massive magma pool ready to blow at any time, and the fallout would cover most of North America.
I was thinking, this wall between Mexico and the USA could also prevent people from trying to get away from that catastrophe if it ever happens. Walls keep people out, but also keep people IN as well.
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Posted by: Bobby Decker on Feb 8, 2008 9:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(Curently on TALK STAR )
Said it in 1993 N.A.F.T.A.
NO
AMERICAN
FACTORYS
TAKEING
APPLICATIONS
"WERE WERE YOU PEOPLE THEN"
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Posted by: elmysterio on Feb 8, 2008 12:38 PM
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Posted by: commonsense on Feb 9, 2008 9:47 PM
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So, if you've got 15 billion under your pillow, you can pretty much write your own laws, including immigration laws, and import your trained slaves. Doesn't sound 'legal' to me...
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Posted by: desidid on Feb 10, 2008 7:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: johnk100 on Feb 10, 2008 9:00 PM
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You can grow an economy by selling pet rocks to people, but, that leads to a lot of poor trinket-sellers competing for sales and pet-rock tycoons. That's not the way to help people.
Instead, you allow people to create the stuff of life: food, clothing, shelter, transportation, art, music, and education. For this, you pay them well if they do it well. You keep the profit margin to the owners low, by giving the workers the right to organize, strike, and sue. You make sure the workers have education, so they won't be bamboozled by slick talkers.
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Posted by: johnk100 on Feb 10, 2008 9:16 PM
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The reason why is simple: the existence of the welfare state demands that working-age people contribute to the collective wealth, in order to use public services. The rule is usually simple: you have to give before you can get - you have to pay taxes to get your benefits.
Our extremely lax immigration policies are, almost entirely, a right-wing, capitalist project. The only "liberal" aspect is the anti-racism stuff, and that is largely a side effect of the vile racism that usually accompanies these surges of nativist attitude.
The standard position of the left, Marxists, and labor unions is to be against immigration. Right now, though, after a solid 30 years of pro-business interests controlling Washington, and allowing undocumented immigration to flourish, these leftist groups have had to come around to embracing the presence of the immigrant working-class in our communities. Unity is necessary for the class struggle. When the working class is split, more people suffer.
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Posted by: aquariansun on Feb 11, 2008 9:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Paul1939 on Feb 14, 2008 1:31 PM
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I respectfully disagree with Jim Hightower's view, as I perceive it, that 12-20+ million illegal aliens are not a serious problem, and the 1-2 million legal immigrants who enter the country each year are a good thing that progressives should embrace. As I understand what Jim is saying, progressives should put the immigration issue aside, and instead direct our efforts towards controlling corporate greed and its impact on working Americans.
My view is quite different, I see overpopulation (caused by massive immigration, legal and illegal), and US trade policies such as NAFTA, WTO and most favored nation status for China as two sides of the same coin. Together these policies are deconstructing the US middleclass. These policies must be eliminated. If we fail to change the current policies on either side of the coin, the US will become a two-tier society with a very small very rich class at the top, and a very large, very poor worker class at the bottom. The middleclass as we knew before Presidents Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush will cease to exist.
When Democratic candidates speak of the overpopulation side of the coin, I wonder if they have even considered the consequences of the policy choices they promote. Clearly they haven’t if the worst they can see happening if we deny amnesty to 12-20+ million illegal aliens is that somehow we will no longer be a nation of immigrants, or work currently done by illegal aliens won’t get done at all because Americans will refuse to do that kind of work.
As H.L. Mencken said, “…it is in the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting.” If Democrats choose to accept the comfortable lie, the whole country will also reap the difficult and unpleasant consequences. It may be comforting to believe amnesty for 12-20+ million illegal aliens will not hurt US citizens and these poor people just want a better life for their families; the trouble is this belief is simply untrue and will prevent accomplishment of many progressive goals.
California, for example, tried to pass a healthcare program that included illegal aliens, but found they couldn’t afford such a program. The same will be true at the national level. We can either have a comprehensive healthcare program for US citizens, or an unacceptable one if millions of illegal aliens are included.
I offer this very cogent comment I read on another blog, “I have yet to see a valid argument in favor of "more people chasing fewer resources! Overpopulation, congestion, urban sprawl, crime, pollution, lack of affordable housing, failing schools, inadequate health care, diminishing resources, vanishing farm land and green space, depressed wages, increased tax burdens, etc. etc, etc. All of these issues have all been negatively impacted by unconstrained immigration. Enforcing our laws against illegal aliens is not a crime; it's an imperative!”
There are two videos I strongly recommend everyone view, the first is “Immigration by the Numbers,” and the second is "Arithmetic, Population, and Energy." These videos can be found respectively at
(http://www.leechvideo.com/video/view2061008.html) and http://courses.ncssm.edu/ GALLERY/programs/colloquia/bartlett.htm.
It is time for progressives to reject plim flam politicians, talk-show hosts, and writers who ignore science and exhort us to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting.
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