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The Stimulus Swindle

Leading figures of both parties seem eager to help limit the debate over "stimulus" and make the final package a corporate goodie bag.
January 25, 2008  |  
 
 
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"Stimulus" -- you've probably heard this nebulous, scientific-sounding word this week. Every politician suddenly wants economic "stimulus," and wants you to think this "stimulus" is unequivocally good.

But here's the question: Why are we talking about "stimulus" only now? After all, most people have been hurting for quite a while. Paychecks have been stagnating, foreclosures have become commonplace, health care premiums continue their double-digit increases -- and up until recently, conservatives greeted such hardships with saccharine fantasy.

Following government reports showing a surge in income inequality, Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson last year gushed that the economy is "as strong as I have seen it in any time." In the summer, as the housing crisis exploded, President Bush said the economy was "thriving." This month, as the Labor Department reported another drop in wages, Republican Rep. Michele Bachmann (Minn.) said not to worry, her state is doing just great because "we have more people that are working longer hours, we have people that are working two jobs." And with word that there are now 195,000 homeless veterans nationwide, Bill O'Reilly insisted on Fox News that really, "there's not many [homeless veterans] out there."

Message: Nothing to see here. The economy is fabulous. Move along.

Lately, though, the rhetoric has switched. Paulson now says there is an "urgent need" for action, and President Bush is demanding a "stimulus" package from Congress.

And that gets us back to the critical question: Why the sudden shift? Because the group demanding help has changed.

Before, it was just commoners complaining -- regular homeowners, wage earners, troops coming home from Iraq, you know, the 99 percent of us who can't afford the thousand-dollar-a-plate political fundraisers.

But now Wall Street is panicking. In the last month, the financial industry's profit margins dropped thanks to mortgage defaults brought on by irresponsible lending. And when the corporate executives who underwrite campaigns start whining, politicians develop "stimulus" schemes using the blight of layoffs, foreclosures and wage cuts to justify tax cuts for those doing the laying off, foreclosing and wage cutting.

Specifically, most GOP presidential candidates are demanding corporate tax cuts as the "stimulus" to improve American competitiveness, ignoring a recent Treasury Department report noting that the United States already has among the lowest effective corporate tax rates in the developed world. Republicans like John McCain, fresh off a Merrill Lynch fundraiser, say we need not expand unemployment benefits and food stamps to help workers and give the economy a reliable Keynesian boost. No, they say we must hand over more cash to the same financial industry that just gave its executives $39 billion worth of year-end bonuses.

Leading figures of both parties seem eager to help limit the debate over "stimulus" and make the final package a corporate goodie bag. According to the Washington Post, Democratic Sen. Max Baucus (Mont.) asked economists affiliated with The Hamilton Project -- a Citigroup-backed think tank -- to testify to Congress at its initial hearings on a stimulus package. Labor economists, by contrast, were not invited.

You might think Citigroup's central role in creating the current financial crisis would disqualify it from influencing legislation addressing that crisis. But remember, Citigroup gives lavishly to Democratic politicians and pays Democratic financier Bob Rubin roughly $10 million a year as a top executive.

Not surprisingly, congressional Democrats appear poised to support a package stripped of increases in safety-net programs and comprised primarily of business tax cuts. This, even though experts agree the former would have an immediate economic impact and the latter will take at least six months to hit. As usual, We the People are told to wait patiently as moneyed interests claim their latest gift from Washington.

President Bush is undoubtedly pleased. He said he wanted "stimulus" built primarily on tax cuts and no new public investment -- more proof of his desire to win the Most Out of Touch President title from Herbert Hoover (at least Hoover proposed new infrastructure with the tax cuts he claimed would prevent the Great Depression).

Let's be clear: There's nothing inherently bad about Washington interacting with Big Business, and nothing conceptually wrong with "stimulus" as a concept. But as this recession intensifies, there's a big problem with politicians catering exclusively to Big Business and an even bigger problem with converting "stimulus" into yet another code word for "swindle."
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David Sirota is a bestselling author whose newest book, "The Uprising," will be released in June of 2008. He is a fellow at the Campaign for America's Future and a board member of the Progressive States Network -- both nonpartisan organizations. His blog is at www.credoaction.com/sirota.
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So....
Posted by: Artkansas on Jan 25, 2008 9:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tax cuts and overspending got us into this mess, and more tax cuts and overspending is the answer to the problem. Makes sense... Keep digging the hole, China can't be too much farther.

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Sutter
Posted by: Sutter on Jan 25, 2008 10:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why do we need a stimulus package? The Bush tax cuts are still in effect - every year the wealthy get a new infusion of cash in their pockets. We should be experiencing substantial job creation and tricle-down by now.

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"interacting"
Posted by: pb120669 on Jan 25, 2008 11:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's be clear: There's nothing inherently bad about Washington interacting with Big Business, and nothing conceptually wrong with "stimulus" as a concept.

On what basis do you make this assertion? I think there is a long public record to suggest the the interaction to which you refer often literally translates into back-room deals, elimination of regulatory legislation, bribe, and the diversion of public tax revenues into the hands of a select few individuals -- incidentally, not the best and brightest our great nation has to offer.

This system is driven by the same effects which reinforce it. And the reinforcement leads to ever greater increases in inequity and disenfranchisement. It will fail, eventually. Unfortunately, many of us will be taken down in the process.

Good, solid business practices result in companies that don't need "assistance" from the government. Useful and helpful businesses will prosper and be profitable if they are efficient and fill a need.

I don't think we need to go out of our way as progressives to defend "Big Business's" right to "interact" with the government.

I agree with most of the rest of your points though. One addition: of course, the "stimulus package" will be more corporate welfare. What is needed, and only a viable, regular folks third party can give it to us, is an Economic Recovery Package to avert the disasterous consequences of effects of the last 3 decades' "perfect storm" of deregulation, corporate welfare, and government sell-off of public infrastructure properties.

Do you think the Democrat Party will give it to you?

The Oil Wars are coming.

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» RE: "interacting" Posted by: TheLimit

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Most Economists agree, put the economic stimulus emphasis on the working poor and middle class.
Posted by: yellow on Jan 25, 2008 11:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most economists, including Nobel Laureate Joseph Stiglitz, agree that the emphasis should be on the poor and working folks. Extending Unemployment insurance, fiscal relief to states and localities, the EITC for poor families and focusing tax cuts on those below the national median income. Also, it has been suggested that raising capital gains taxes dramatically in 2009 will create the liquidation of much currently idle financial wealth thus stimulating spending and economic growth now!! This plan worked quite successfully in 1986 to sustain growth. More cuts for the rich will only end up in the financial markets doing nothing for the economy now. Target the cuts on the working poor and the middle class.

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» more horsesh*t Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» So what was your point? Posted by: yellow

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The Swindle : Another Trillion to Bail Out Banks ! ! !
Posted by: mmckinl on Jan 25, 2008 2:22 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The 100 million stimulus is designed to give the Fed another Trillion to bail out their shareholders, the Money Center Banks. Because our Government will have to borrow this money the debt placed in the Fed will be leveraged 10 to 1 using debt based fractional banking. More Good Money after Bad with a hyper inflation chaser.

Where are the editorials and columns about the role of debt-based currrency and the viability of a privately owned and operated Federal Reserve?

The Panic of 2008 is all about debt-based currency and the role of the Federal Reserve in (not) regulating the financial system.

Who will ask the tough but necessary questions:

-Why shouldn't we fire the Fed? and,

-What is the role of debt-based money in the rapacious destruction of our environment?

The Libertariann Right have their position on these matters; Where are the Progressives and Liberals ?

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» i'm left agast that he can't see that Posted by: KaptainSpiffy

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The Goldman Sachs swindle - bait and switch!
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jan 25, 2008 2:38 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is a little article that helps explain some of the mess - "Frosty the Goldman" and Other Odes to Subprime Profiteers

The problem was the lackof regulation and oversight in the lending industry and in the high finance world. Shoddy subprime loans were bought up by investment banks and sold on to other investors as securities packages.

The mortgage brokers and appraisers colluded at one end to jack up home prices in order to earn higher commissions (or even as part of predatory lending schemes aimed at property seizure).

Then the loans, held by the commercial banks, were sold on to other speculators (investment banks). Goldman Sachs stands out here because they then, after moving the securities packages, bet against them - thereby avoiding the fate of Citigroup and many others. (That's why the Goldman Sachs CEO is looking at a $70 million bonus this year).

The closest thing in recent history is the Savings and Loan scandle of the mid 1980s - and then, just as now, the government stepped in to bail out the speculators who took a bath.

As to why this hasn't been discussed by the leading candidates... see Opensecrets on Goldman Sach's political donations.

Hillary Clinton (D-NY) $639,540
Jon S. Corzine (D-NJ) $583,870
George W. Bush (R) $528,049
Charles E. Schumer (D-NY) $458,440
Barack Obama (D-IL) $437,478
John Kerry (D-MA) $352,750
Bill Bradley (D) $323,550
Christopher J. Dodd (D-CT) $262,816
John Edwards (D) $224,400
Jack Ryan (R-IL) $218,161
Mitt Romney (R) $199,075
Rick A. Lazio (R-NY) $194,300
John McCain (R-AZ) $191,070
Alfonse M. D'Amato (R-NY) $189,150
Evan Bayh (D-IN) $161,650
Tom Daschle (D-SD) $158,500
Bill Clinton (D) $140,659
Robert Menendez (D-NJ) $138,250
Arlen Specter (R-PA) $133,850
Nita M. Lowey (D-NY) $129,790

covering all the bets...

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» your problem lies here Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: your problem lies here Posted by: yellow

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What to do with that check
Posted by: socialpsych on Jan 26, 2008 4:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It looks like American taxpayers aren't going to have a choice about this "stimulus" package. So what should we do with the check when it arrives in the mail? I'm not an economist, but it seems that it might be a good thing to use all of it to pay down debt. Wouldn't that kick lenders in the shins because it would deprive them of some interest income? And wouldn't it improve our personal economies just a bit? Can anyone with expertise comment on this strategy?

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» RE: What to do with that check Posted by: kattfish

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I'm not an economist
Posted by: ronheri on Jan 26, 2008 5:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm just a 65 year old man, an average joe, who until recently did'nt pay much attention to politics or economics; but always had a deep desire to get to the truth. It was probably when I cut my hours at work and spent a lot of time researching everything via the internet, (forget the MSM), that I was finally able to understand things much more clearly. It started when I came upom Aaron Russo's video "America Freedom to Facism", from there I came upon Alex Jones's web sites and on to investigating Ron Paul and his philosophy and his understanding of the Constitution and economics. This was all new stuff to this lifelong union democrat. Well as Alex Jones so often says during his daily radio broadcasts, "Don't believe me, I want you to investigate this for yourselves"; and he goes on to give you all of the resources to do just that; public documents that have been declassified, books, websites, videos, and a vast array of guests he interviews. The more you start to learn, the more you want to keep looking in an attempt to understand just what has gone so terribly wrong with our country and other countries throuhout history. Last summer I came across a website "matrixeconomy.com" and listened to their 90 minute presentation about economics and what has gone so wrong. The download dated 27 July 07 will help anyone understand what is going on and what we can expect in the near future. This is not for the timid, in fact it is frightening. They explain everything in an easy to understand format. They had long before predicted the subprime mortgage meltdown, and give you ideas on what we can expect to come. This download is free, all you need to do is register a username, and be willing to spend 90 minutes of your time. I guaruntee anyone who does, not only will be awaken to our current problems; but also may give you a chance to prepare for the disaster that is coming. Finally, I must add in closing, they don't give financial advice; they are not attempting to sell anything. They care about America and are very concerned, as am I. God Bless you all, and stay close to your families and friends. That's all we're going to have to help us get through the coming depression.

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From what I've seen and heard
Posted by: QuestionAuthority on Jan 26, 2008 6:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From what I've seen and heard, most people are going to apply it to outstanding debt like credit card bills. So much for a stimulus, except to the credit card companies...as if THEY need one.

Besides, the economy needs stimulation NOW, not in June when these checks will finally start reaching large numbers of people. By then, we'll probably already be deeper into this recession than we already are.

Incidentally, do you think Bush got permission from China to borrow this money from them? ;-) Where else is he going to get it?

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Let's face it
Posted by: willymack on Jan 26, 2008 9:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The bush crime spree which began with the fraudulent "election" in 2000 will continue unabated until January of 2009 unless the evil bastards in this illegal "administration" are STOPPED through legal action. This means IMPEACHMENT (cheney first), folks. Let's get behind Dennis Kucinich, John Conyers, and those other brave and moral officials with an avalanche of letters, telephone calls, and emails demanding our rights and legal action against the bushies.

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mudlegs
Posted by: barbs on Jan 26, 2008 10:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
excessive consumer spending on credit cards has helped lead to this downturn so a 'perfect solution' is to give people more money to go out and spend!!!!

and oh, yes, we'll have to borrow the money to send you because our government's coffers are empty.

but don't worry we'll just add it to the trillions of dollars in debt we already have..

gee, thanks...my grandchildren will appreciate it immensely.

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There are two economies
Posted by: billwald on Jan 26, 2008 10:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are two economies: one for people who loan money and one for people who borrow money. The people who loan money are doing just fine. People who borrow money are getting shafted.

It isn't just a rich/poor thing. Working people who have lived under their income and saved (invested) the difference will do OK and will be able to buy real estate when the crash comes. Big enough crash and maybe I will be able to move back into Seattle for my remaining years.

That being said, nothing short of a shooting revolution like the Russian and French revolutions will ever stop the transfer of assets from the working class to our owners.

The Revolution will be made much more diffcult because our owners have gotten much smarter. We don't know who they are because they now live a stye that blends in. From a distance, Bill Gates could have bought his suits at Penny's. In the old days our owners dressed formally.

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FDR had it RIGHT
Posted by: JSquercia on Jan 26, 2008 12:33 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FDR had it right the best way to spend the money is to Build Stuff . God Knows our infastructure is in desperate need of rebuilding . The wages put money into the hands of people who need it and the country actually gets something .
We used to call that investing in our future and we had it right . I believe many of our greatest works came about through Roosevelt's investing in America .

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history
Posted by: john henry on Jan 26, 2008 12:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
mr. ablham lincoln an mr. thomas jejjerson had some thoughs on this you all need to go back an look up there paper if alternet would look them you an put them out here for everbody to read them it could make a big change

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I wil be waiting for you...in the courtroom.
Posted by: carl baydala on Jan 26, 2008 4:36 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe is the water they drink or just their common sense approach to taking a stand and supporting the less powerful in their struggles against those whose interests are inimical to theirs. I am referring to a couple of former mayors of the City of Cleveland, Ohio.

Robert Scheer, in an article in Truthdig. Posted January 23, 2008.and posted elsewhere on this site states


"..It was smart of the top Democrats to cut presidential candidate Rep. Dennis Kucinich out of that South Carolina debate, where they lamely attempted to deal with the dire consequences of the banking meltdown without confronting the banks. They made all the proper concerned noises about millions of folks losing their retirement savings and homes, but none was willing to say what Kucinich would have said: Bankers are crooks who will steal from the public unless the government holds them accountable."

I provide the about quote to show that Cleveland mayors have a history of fighting for the rights of their constituents and doing the right thing. Cleveland mayors appear to be men who stand out, and are capable of doing the right thing when it counts.

They do not mince words and take decisive and appropriate action. Hence, I provide you with this short Bloomberg video which is less than 5 minutes long. This is how the current mayor of Cleveland is handling the thousands of foreclosures in his city brought on by the questionable lending practices of the bankers.

How else are you going to fix a corrupt and inefficent system if the stewards of the financial system will not do it. Simple, you take them to court:

Here is a sample video of someone fighting back against the subprime fiasco ( Bloomberg.com 1/14/08 )

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» kick-@ss! Posted by: KaptainSpiffy

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CommonDreamer
Posted by: CommonDreamer on Jan 27, 2008 6:34 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pay no attention to the men behind the curtain. More manipulation brought to you by the trickle down frat house where nothing sensible (stable bridges, dental care, affordable housing)needs to be paid for - tax cuts for the rich are always the answer. BTW, shouldn't we be asking them to go out and work on our bridges now, as they drive over them too? Since they have all of the money, it seems pretty fair. And build affordable housing too, since their gardeners and housekeepers and so on don't make $100K? Apparently the private market can do all of this so much better - why aren't they doing it?

Oh I forgot - they need more tax breaks. The first ones just were not obscene or irresponsible enough.

So here we are. And with a package apparently to "help" those couples making "up to $178K" or thereabouts and singles making up to $78K or so. BUT this package does not increase the heating oil help allowance at all. It's obscene. Does not help those who make very little money - so what if they don't pay taxes - you try paying taxes on a $20K income. We will spend tax dollars on couples who make $178K but we are not increasing the heating oil allowance to help those who truly have needs.

Please, people - write to your Senator and tell him or her that this is just wrong. I for one would give my check so someone could have heating for the winter - it's obviously someone a lot less fortunate than me - maybe someone with diabetes, who got laid off, or something like that. Senate.gov - needs to hear from all of us who believe this is such an insensitive waste of taxpayer money to fund this and not fund anything that really has meaning and morals. Please write. If they don't hear from you they will keep on going with this amoral and indefensible plan.
They desperately need to hear from outraged taxpayers like us.

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What to do with your "stimulus" check....
Posted by: stina723 on Jan 28, 2008 9:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
don't buy worthless crap from corporations. Buy gold, or euros or british pounds.

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This is how messed up it really is..
Posted by: rjs on Jan 30, 2008 11:11 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Republican Rep. Michele Bachmann (Minn.) said not to worry, her state is doing just great because "we have more people that are working longer hours, we have people that are working two jobs."

No cost of living increase - Answer, work more.
Food cost increases - Answer, work more.
Gasoline through the roof - Answer, work more.
No health care - Answer, work more.
Lost my home - Answer, work more.

The government supports the average person working 24/7. In fact, everyone in the house should be doing it. If the dog could work, the government would want it doing so.

This is how F...okay, mucked up this country is.
It is a "SIN" for a woman to stay home with the youngsters growing up. We shouldn't have good paying jobs with a single person in the home working. We are supposed to be working 3 Walmart jobs. Not just the husband, but the wife. 6 jobs total working 24/7.

I cannot believe that this is considered respectable. It is criminal. Longer hours, or two or three jobs.. This is just insanity and the elected officials do little to nothing while they rob the public blind.

I'm working three jobs, I'm not making it - Answer - Work more.


--rjs

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Alternet Comments:

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So....
Posted by: Artkansas on Jan 25, 2008 9:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tax cuts and overspending got us into this mess, and more tax cuts and overspending is the answer to the problem. Makes sense... Keep digging the hole, China can't be too much farther.

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Sutter
Posted by: Sutter on Jan 25, 2008 10:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why do we need a stimulus package? The Bush tax cuts are still in effect - every year the wealthy get a new infusion of cash in their pockets. We should be experiencing substantial job creation and tricle-down by now.

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"interacting"
Posted by: pb120669 on Jan 25, 2008 11:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's be clear: There's nothing inherently bad about Washington interacting with Big Business, and nothing conceptually wrong with "stimulus" as a concept.

On what basis do you make this assertion? I think there is a long public record to suggest the the interaction to which you refer often literally translates into back-room deals, elimination of regulatory legislation, bribe, and the diversion of public tax revenues into the hands of a select few individuals -- incidentally, not the best and brightest our great nation has to offer.

This system is driven by the same effects which reinforce it. And the reinforcement leads to ever greater increases in inequity and disenfranchisement. It will fail, eventually. Unfortunately, many of us will be taken down in the process.

Good, solid business practices result in companies that don't need "assistance" from the government. Useful and helpful businesses will prosper and be profitable if they are efficient and fill a need.

I don't think we need to go out of our way as progressives to defend "Big Business's" right to "interact" with the government.

I agree with most of the rest of your points though. One addition: of course, the "stimulus package" will be more corporate welfare. What is needed, and only a viable, regular folks third party can give it to us, is an Economic Recovery Package to avert the disasterous consequences of effects of the last 3 decades' "perfect storm" of deregulation, corporate welfare, and government sell-off of public infrastructure properties.

Do you think the Democrat Party will give it to you?

The Oil Wars are coming.

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» RE: "interacting" Posted by: TheLimit

Comments are closed-

Most Economists agree, put the economic stimulus emphasis on the working poor and middle class.
Posted by: yellow on Jan 25, 2008 11:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most economists, including Nobel Laureate Joseph Stiglitz, agree that the emphasis should be on the poor and working folks. Extending Unemployment insurance, fiscal relief to states and localities, the EITC for poor families and focusing tax cuts on those below the national median income. Also, it has been suggested that raising capital gains taxes dramatically in 2009 will create the liquidation of much currently idle financial wealth thus stimulating spending and economic growth now!! This plan worked quite successfully in 1986 to sustain growth. More cuts for the rich will only end up in the financial markets doing nothing for the economy now. Target the cuts on the working poor and the middle class.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» more horsesh*t Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» So what was your point? Posted by: yellow

Comments are closed-

The Swindle : Another Trillion to Bail Out Banks ! ! !
Posted by: mmckinl on Jan 25, 2008 2:22 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The 100 million stimulus is designed to give the Fed another Trillion to bail out their shareholders, the Money Center Banks. Because our Government will have to borrow this money the debt placed in the Fed will be leveraged 10 to 1 using debt based fractional banking. More Good Money after Bad with a hyper inflation chaser.

Where are the editorials and columns about the role of debt-based currrency and the viability of a privately owned and operated Federal Reserve?

The Panic of 2008 is all about debt-based currency and the role of the Federal Reserve in (not) regulating the financial system.

Who will ask the tough but necessary questions:

-Why shouldn't we fire the Fed? and,

-What is the role of debt-based money in the rapacious destruction of our environment?

The Libertariann Right have their position on these matters; Where are the Progressives and Liberals ?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» i'm left agast that he can't see that Posted by: KaptainSpiffy

Comments are closed-

The Goldman Sachs swindle - bait and switch!
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jan 25, 2008 2:38 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is a little article that helps explain some of the mess - "Frosty the Goldman" and Other Odes to Subprime Profiteers

The problem was the lackof regulation and oversight in the lending industry and in the high finance world. Shoddy subprime loans were bought up by investment banks and sold on to other investors as securities packages.

The mortgage brokers and appraisers colluded at one end to jack up home prices in order to earn higher commissions (or even as part of predatory lending schemes aimed at property seizure).

Then the loans, held by the commercial banks, were sold on to other speculators (investment banks). Goldman Sachs stands out here because they then, after moving the securities packages, bet against them - thereby avoiding the fate of Citigroup and many others. (That's why the Goldman Sachs CEO is looking at a $70 million bonus this year).

The closest thing in recent history is the Savings and Loan scandle of the mid 1980s - and then, just as now, the government stepped in to bail out the speculators who took a bath.

As to why this hasn't been discussed by the leading candidates... see Opensecrets on Goldman Sach's political donations.

Hillary Clinton (D-NY) $639,540
Jon S. Corzine (D-NJ) $583,870
George W. Bush (R) $528,049
Charles E. Schumer (D-NY) $458,440
Barack Obama (D-IL) $437,478
John Kerry (D-MA) $352,750
Bill Bradley (D) $323,550
Christopher J. Dodd (D-CT) $262,816
John Edwards (D) $224,400
Jack Ryan (R-IL) $218,161
Mitt Romney (R) $199,075
Rick A. Lazio (R-NY) $194,300
John McCain (R-AZ) $191,070
Alfonse M. D'Amato (R-NY) $189,150
Evan Bayh (D-IN) $161,650
Tom Daschle (D-SD) $158,500
Bill Clinton (D) $140,659
Robert Menendez (D-NJ) $138,250
Arlen Specter (R-PA) $133,850
Nita M. Lowey (D-NY) $129,790

covering all the bets...

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» your problem lies here Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: your problem lies here Posted by: yellow

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What to do with that check
Posted by: socialpsych on Jan 26, 2008 4:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It looks like American taxpayers aren't going to have a choice about this "stimulus" package. So what should we do with the check when it arrives in the mail? I'm not an economist, but it seems that it might be a good thing to use all of it to pay down debt. Wouldn't that kick lenders in the shins because it would deprive them of some interest income? And wouldn't it improve our personal economies just a bit? Can anyone with expertise comment on this strategy?

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» RE: What to do with that check Posted by: kattfish

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I'm not an economist
Posted by: ronheri on Jan 26, 2008 5:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm just a 65 year old man, an average joe, who until recently did'nt pay much attention to politics or economics; but always had a deep desire to get to the truth. It was probably when I cut my hours at work and spent a lot of time researching everything via the internet, (forget the MSM), that I was finally able to understand things much more clearly. It started when I came upom Aaron Russo's video "America Freedom to Facism", from there I came upon Alex Jones's web sites and on to investigating Ron Paul and his philosophy and his understanding of the Constitution and economics. This was all new stuff to this lifelong union democrat. Well as Alex Jones so often says during his daily radio broadcasts, "Don't believe me, I want you to investigate this for yourselves"; and he goes on to give you all of the resources to do just that; public documents that have been declassified, books, websites, videos, and a vast array of guests he interviews. The more you start to learn, the more you want to keep looking in an attempt to understand just what has gone so terribly wrong with our country and other countries throuhout history. Last summer I came across a website "matrixeconomy.com" and listened to their 90 minute presentation about economics and what has gone so wrong. The download dated 27 July 07 will help anyone understand what is going on and what we can expect in the near future. This is not for the timid, in fact it is frightening. They explain everything in an easy to understand format. They had long before predicted the subprime mortgage meltdown, and give you ideas on what we can expect to come. This download is free, all you need to do is register a username, and be willing to spend 90 minutes of your time. I guaruntee anyone who does, not only will be awaken to our current problems; but also may give you a chance to prepare for the disaster that is coming. Finally, I must add in closing, they don't give financial advice; they are not attempting to sell anything. They care about America and are very concerned, as am I. God Bless you all, and stay close to your families and friends. That's all we're going to have to help us get through the coming depression.

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From what I've seen and heard
Posted by: QuestionAuthority on Jan 26, 2008 6:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From what I've seen and heard, most people are going to apply it to outstanding debt like credit card bills. So much for a stimulus, except to the credit card companies...as if THEY need one.

Besides, the economy needs stimulation NOW, not in June when these checks will finally start reaching large numbers of people. By then, we'll probably already be deeper into this recession than we already are.

Incidentally, do you think Bush got permission from China to borrow this money from them? ;-) Where else is he going to get it?

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Let's face it
Posted by: willymack on Jan 26, 2008 9:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The bush crime spree which began with the fraudulent "election" in 2000 will continue unabated until January of 2009 unless the evil bastards in this illegal "administration" are STOPPED through legal action. This means IMPEACHMENT (cheney first), folks. Let's get behind Dennis Kucinich, John Conyers, and those other brave and moral officials with an avalanche of letters, telephone calls, and emails demanding our rights and legal action against the bushies.

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mudlegs
Posted by: barbs on Jan 26, 2008 10:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
excessive consumer spending on credit cards has helped lead to this downturn so a 'perfect solution' is to give people more money to go out and spend!!!!

and oh, yes, we'll have to borrow the money to send you because our government's coffers are empty.

but don't worry we'll just add it to the trillions of dollars in debt we already have..

gee, thanks...my grandchildren will appreciate it immensely.

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There are two economies
Posted by: billwald on Jan 26, 2008 10:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are two economies: one for people who loan money and one for people who borrow money. The people who loan money are doing just fine. People who borrow money are getting shafted.

It isn't just a rich/poor thing. Working people who have lived under their income and saved (invested) the difference will do OK and will be able to buy real estate when the crash comes. Big enough crash and maybe I will be able to move back into Seattle for my remaining years.

That being said, nothing short of a shooting revolution like the Russian and French revolutions will ever stop the transfer of assets from the working class to our owners.

The Revolution will be made much more diffcult because our owners have gotten much smarter. We don't know who they are because they now live a stye that blends in. From a distance, Bill Gates could have bought his suits at Penny's. In the old days our owners dressed formally.

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FDR had it RIGHT
Posted by: JSquercia on Jan 26, 2008 12:33 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FDR had it right the best way to spend the money is to Build Stuff . God Knows our infastructure is in desperate need of rebuilding . The wages put money into the hands of people who need it and the country actually gets something .
We used to call that investing in our future and we had it right . I believe many of our greatest works came about through Roosevelt's investing in America .

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history
Posted by: john henry on Jan 26, 2008 12:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
mr. ablham lincoln an mr. thomas jejjerson had some thoughs on this you all need to go back an look up there paper if alternet would look them you an put them out here for everbody to read them it could make a big change

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I wil be waiting for you...in the courtroom.
Posted by: carl baydala on Jan 26, 2008 4:36 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe is the water they drink or just their common sense approach to taking a stand and supporting the less powerful in their struggles against those whose interests are inimical to theirs. I am referring to a couple of former mayors of the City of Cleveland, Ohio.

Robert Scheer, in an article in Truthdig. Posted January 23, 2008.and posted elsewhere on this site states


"..It was smart of the top Democrats to cut presidential candidate Rep. Dennis Kucinich out of that South Carolina debate, where they lamely attempted to deal with the dire consequences of the banking meltdown without confronting the banks. They made all the proper concerned noises about millions of folks losing their retirement savings and homes, but none was willing to say what Kucinich would have said: Bankers are crooks who will steal from the public unless the government holds them accountable."

I provide the about quote to show that Cleveland mayors have a history of fighting for the rights of their constituents and doing the right thing. Cleveland mayors appear to be men who stand out, and are capable of doing the right thing when it counts.

They do not mince words and take decisive and appropriate action. Hence, I provide you with this short Bloomberg video which is less than 5 minutes long. This is how the current mayor of Cleveland is handling the thousands of foreclosures in his city brought on by the questionable lending practices of the bankers.

How else are you going to fix a corrupt and inefficent system if the stewards of the financial system will not do it. Simple, you take them to court:

Here is a sample video of someone fighting back against the subprime fiasco ( Bloomberg.com 1/14/08 )

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» kick-@ss! Posted by: KaptainSpiffy

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CommonDreamer
Posted by: CommonDreamer on Jan 27, 2008 6:34 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pay no attention to the men behind the curtain. More manipulation brought to you by the trickle down frat house where nothing sensible (stable bridges, dental care, affordable housing)needs to be paid for - tax cuts for the rich are always the answer. BTW, shouldn't we be asking them to go out and work on our bridges now, as they drive over them too? Since they have all of the money, it seems pretty fair. And build affordable housing too, since their gardeners and housekeepers and so on don't make $100K? Apparently the private market can do all of this so much better - why aren't they doing it?

Oh I forgot - they need more tax breaks. The first ones just were not obscene or irresponsible enough.

So here we are. And with a package apparently to "help" those couples making "up to $178K" or thereabouts and singles making up to $78K or so. BUT this package does not increase the heating oil help allowance at all. It's obscene. Does not help those who make very little money - so what if they don't pay taxes - you try paying taxes on a $20K income. We will spend tax dollars on couples who make $178K but we are not increasing the heating oil allowance to help those who truly have needs.

Please, people - write to your Senator and tell him or her that this is just wrong. I for one would give my check so someone could have heating for the winter - it's obviously someone a lot less fortunate than me - maybe someone with diabetes, who got laid off, or something like that. Senate.gov - needs to hear from all of us who believe this is such an insensitive waste of taxpayer money to fund this and not fund anything that really has meaning and morals. Please write. If they don't hear from you they will keep on going with this amoral and indefensible plan.
They desperately need to hear from outraged taxpayers like us.

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What to do with your "stimulus" check....
Posted by: stina723 on Jan 28, 2008 9:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
don't buy worthless crap from corporations. Buy gold, or euros or british pounds.

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This is how messed up it really is..
Posted by: rjs on Jan 30, 2008 11:11 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Republican Rep. Michele Bachmann (Minn.) said not to worry, her state is doing just great because "we have more people that are working longer hours, we have people that are working two jobs."

No cost of living increase - Answer, work more.
Food cost increases - Answer, work more.
Gasoline through the roof - Answer, work more.
No health care - Answer, work more.
Lost my home - Answer, work more.

The government supports the average person working 24/7. In fact, everyone in the house should be doing it. If the dog could work, the government would want it doing so.

This is how F...okay, mucked up this country is.
It is a "SIN" for a woman to stay home with the youngsters growing up. We shouldn't have good paying jobs with a single person in the home working. We are supposed to be working 3 Walmart jobs. Not just the husband, but the wife. 6 jobs total working 24/7.

I cannot believe that this is considered respectable. It is criminal. Longer hours, or two or three jobs.. This is just insanity and the elected officials do little to nothing while they rob the public blind.

I'm working three jobs, I'm not making it - Answer - Work more.


--rjs

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