COMMENTS: 88
On the Right, Public Healthcare for Children is a Socialist Plot
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They'd have a point: many American families with middle-class incomes do send their kids to school at public expense, so taxpayers without school-age children subsidize families that do. And the effect is to displace the private sector: if public schools weren't available, many families would pay for private schools instead.
So let's end this un-American system and make education what it should be -- a matter of individual responsibility and private enterprise. Oh, and we shouldn't have any government mandates that force children to get educated, either. As a Republican presidential candidate might say, the future of America's education system lies in free-market solutions, not socialist models.
O.K., in case you're wondering, I haven't lost my mind, I'm drawing an analogy. The real Heritage press release, titled "The Middle-Class Welfare Kid Next Door," is an attack on proposals to expand the State Children's Health Insurance Program. Such an expansion, says Heritage, will "displace private insurance with government-sponsored health care coverage."
And Rudy Giuliani's call for "free-market solutions, not socialist models" was about health care, not education.
But thinking about how we'd react if they said the same things about education helps dispel the fog of obfuscation right-wingers use to obscure the true nature of their position on children's health.
The truth is that there's no difference in principle between saying that every American child is entitled to an education and saying that every American child is entitled to adequate health care. It's just a matter of historical accident that we think of access to free K-12 education as a basic right, but consider having the government pay children's medical bills "welfare," with all the negative connotations that go with that term.
And conservative opposition to giving every child in this country access to health care is, in a fundamental sense, un-American.
Here's what I mean: The great majority of Americans believe that everyone is entitled to a chance to make the most of his or her life. Even conservatives usually claim to believe that. For example, N. Gregory Mankiw, the former chairman of the Bush Council of Economic Advisers, contrasts the position of liberals, who he says believe in equality of outcomes, with that of conservatives, who he says believe that the goal of policy should be "to give everyone the same shot and not be surprised or concerned when outcomes differ wildly."
But a child who doesn't receive adequate health care, like a child who doesn't receive an adequate education, doesn't have the same shot - he or she doesn't have the same chances in life as children who get both these things.
And insurance is crucial to receiving adequate health care. President Bush may think that lacking insurance is no problem - "I mean, people have access to health care in America. After all, you just go to an emergency room" - but the reality is that the nine million children in America who don't have health insurance often have unmet medical or dental needs, don't have a regular place for medical care, and frequently have to delay care because of cost.
Now, the public understands the importance of health insurance, even if Mr. Bush doesn't. According to a recent New York Times/CBS News poll, an amazing 94 percent of the public regards the fact that many children in America lack health insurance as either a "serious" or a "very serious" problem.
So how can conservatives defend the indefensible, and oppose giving children the health care they need? By trying the old welfare queen in her Cadillac strategy (albeit without the racial innuendo that made it so effective when Reagan used it). That is, to divert public sympathy from people who really need help, they're trying to change the subject to the supposedly undeserving recipients of government aid. Hence the emphasis on the evils of "middle-class welfare."
Proponents of an expansion of children's health care have, as they should, responded to this strategy with facts and figures. Congressional Budget Office estimates show that S-chip expansion would, in fact, primarily benefit those who need it most: the great majority of children receiving coverage under an expanded program would otherwise have been uninsured.
But the more fundamental response should be, so what?
We offer free education, and don't worry about middle-class families getting benefits they don't need, because that's the only way to ensure that every child gets an education - and giving every child a fair chance is the American way. And we should guarantee health care to every child, for the same reason.
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Posted by: bkvwd57 on Aug 27, 2007 11:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The republicans do get it. They want to keep the poorer Americans malnourished, uneducated and poor that way they think they can't fight back. Hopefully they are wrong but they may not be.
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» RE: epublicans do get it
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: epublicans do get it
Posted by: Roverton
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Posted by: dougo on Aug 27, 2007 4:02 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: healthcare now
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: cordas on Aug 28, 2007 12:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Access to good medical care is essentail for every child, I would even say its MORE important than education. If a child suffers a serious injury or illness that will have serious implications for the rest of their life, and can have a far more detrimental effect than no education. I am not saying education isn't important it is, hugely so but health care is just more important.
You really need to get this sorted and join the rest of the 1st world nations and give free health care to all. I know that isn't going to happen over night....
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» RE: Why so Stunned?
Posted by: Jbuuty
» RE: Stunned
Posted by: owleyes
» RE: Stunned
Posted by: drmeow
» RE: Stunned
Posted by: edith
» RE: Stunned
Posted by: sea4th
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Posted by: greentime on Aug 28, 2007 4:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Close your eyes and imagine a country where the government, created by the people, actually PROVIDES the absolute necessities for the people! Not just tax breaks and rules that serve business or protect corporations an the few excessively rich.
WOW! What a concept.
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» RE: A true government would do all this and more for the people it serves.
Posted by: polyquat50
» Re:
Posted by: CatDad
» free market
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: free market
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: free market
Posted by: sea4th
» RE: e:
Posted by: Leman
» RE: e:
Posted by: willbonds
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Posted by: Lincoln fan on Aug 28, 2007 4:35 AM
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This 94% is split into two gtoups. One group believes that the healthcare should include profits for insurance companies and the other that it shouldn't. A simple referendum would settle this question in favor of the majority who are interested in this issue. Then we would have the children covered one way or the other. Isn't that a logical solution? Why then don't we have a referendum?
The insurance industry finances the campaigns of both parties and has million dollar lobbies to prevent such a referendum. This is the case for every issue that is people oriented. The corporate establishment is against any service provided by the government that doesn't include a profit for private industry. And they put their money where their mouth is.
The voters can force a referendum on each issue that the corporate establishment keeps "off the table". We can use the power of our votes, before the election, to put these issues on the platforms of one or both parties.
Bob Reichenbach,
Director, The Lincoln Initiative.
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Posted by: PJT on Aug 28, 2007 4:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The objective of the people running this country is not to give a boost to the little people. The objective is to game the system so that the maximum wealth flows to The Owners and their chosen friends. If you drive across rural America as I do you notice something about the people who live outside wealthy cities: not only are the people poor, but they are unhealthy too.
There is a Third World aspect to rural America that you will notice particularly if you travel in Canada and can make a comparison. Rural Canadians are not as fat as Americans, they look healthier, and most startling of all, they have their TEETH. Compare the citizenry of anywhere between Toronto and Montreal with, say, the people around Greenville, PA, and you will see what I mean. So what?
The people who are getting rich in this country are getting their money out of the global economy. The poor fat slobs living in a trailer in Appalachia count for less than nothing to The Owners of America. Their only, slight, value is to contribute votes to a Republican majority. The less they get from the government, the better, and the more that can flow through to the top couple of percent. The fact that rural America is effectively Third World is utterly unimportant since these people cannot ever have any impact on the wealth creation of the plutocracy, except in a negative respect.
The rich don't need government services: they need high end private services, lots of inexpensive staff, and access to regional jetports. Anything that doesn't directly support their person wealth creation enterprises is spurious and to be done away with. Health care for the masses? Why? Somebody explain to me how fixing the teeth of trailer park trash kids is going to help the rich get richer? P J Tramdack
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» yes, poverty (even when nutrition is equal) damages your health and shortens your life
Posted by: Suzon
» RE: yes, poverty (even when nutrition is equal) damages your health and shortens your life
Posted by: willbonds
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Posted by: Leman on Aug 28, 2007 5:37 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is a hint: if this problem really were that simple, it probably would be resolved by now. The reason it is not resolved yet is because people who want freebees do not want to pay for them and people who can pay for them do not need them. Everybody wants all kinds of socialist goodies - as long as it's that nasty rich man who foots the bill. Would you sing the same song in a flat tax system, when your tax rate goes up exactly as much as Bill Gates' every time you pass another feel-good legislation?
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» RE: Reality Check for a nonsense post
Posted by: Jbuuty
» RE: eality Check for a nonsense post
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Not a simple issue
Posted by: PopRox80
» RE: Not a simple issue
Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: Not a simple issue
Posted by: Leman
» RE: Not a simple issue
Posted by: PopRox80
» RE: Not a simple issue
Posted by: AndyF
» RE: Everybody wants all kinds of socialist goodies
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» It seems that Bush's economic policies result in decreasing average incomes and net good job loss.
Posted by: yellow
» You get what you pay for - otherwise it's a robbery
Posted by: Leman
» RE: You get what you pay for - otherwise it's a robbery
Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» RE: You get what you pay for - otherwise it's a robbery
Posted by: Leman
» RE: You get what you pay for - otherwise it's a robbery
Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» RE: ...engaging in even a modicum of reasoned argument...
Posted by: Leman
» RE: You get what you pay for - otherwise it's a robbery
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: You get what you pay for - otherwise it's a robbery
Posted by: Leman
» RE: You get what you pay for - otherwise it's a robbery
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: You get what you pay for - otherwise it's a robbery
Posted by: Leman
» RE: You get what you pay for - otherwise it's a robbery
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: verybody wants all kinds of socialist goodies
Posted by: LeeAnnG
» Socialism is a system, not a policy. Capitalism and the State link up to the same political economy.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: verybody wants all kinds of socialist goodies
Posted by: willbonds
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Posted by: wonkywriter on Aug 28, 2007 8:05 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But the more fundamental response should be, so what?
We offer free education, and don't worry about middle-class families getting benefits they don't need, because that's the only way to ensure that every child gets an education - and giving every child a fair chance is the American way. And we should guarantee health care to every child, for the same reason.
The author is wrong about how to counter the Heritage Foundation and those others whose souls are so deprived of health care that they drop off the "to come unto me" and are just left with "suffer, the little children".
As Drew Westen explains in his brillliant new book, The Political Brain, politically speaking, the emotional appeal will trump one based upon reason every time. (This is Dems' Great Misconception and the Repubs' Secret of Success.) The proper response would be not to quote fact and figure, but to simply say, "Those who would deny free health care to ANY child for ANY reason are like the witch in Hansel and Gretel--getting fat off of the most vulnerable".
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» RE: Don't cite facts, go for the jugular
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Don't cite facts, go for the jugular
Posted by: willbonds
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Posted by: WitchyNy on Aug 28, 2007 8:24 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Instead of a profit based system-we need an environment and people first based system.
That is what our country was naturally heading towards -then we had the 'cold war' and the 'commie scare'. The goal was to make us afraid of anything that was not profit-based and controlled by Big Business.
Watch the old movie IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE-from an economic perspective. It is all in there. What our country should be-how the rich twist everything and lie and steal--and what economics and business should really stand for.
(Not to mention what a home should really be-NOT a big house for status or profit)
Socialism--because it is the RIGHT thing to do. (pun)
EAT THE RICH.
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» RE: No more Capitalism-
Posted by: MatthewSavage
» Hi Matthew-
Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: No more Capitalism-
Posted by: owleyes
» RE: No more Capitalism-
Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: No more Capitalism-
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» to Lincoln fan-
Posted by: WitchyNy
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Posted by: jgdewey on Aug 28, 2007 10:24 AM
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» RE: This is a no brainer, but it does require a heart
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: fearless flower on Aug 28, 2007 11:06 AM
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I find it ironic that our government demands so much of our money in taxes, then plays with it, shuffles it around, loses some of it ($14,000 for each man. woman and child in this country, according to Solari.com)), and then deigns to give a little of it back to us in the form of public assistance, grants and entitlements.
Any discussion about making health care attainable for all must dovetail with talk about how to make life affordable for all in this country. If people could afford to live in healthier environments and eat better quality food, and avoid the debilitating stress of worrying how they are going to survive financially, that would eliminate much of the need for medical care in many people.
Let's keep focused on the bigger issue: the need for a government to truly serve its people rather than takes advantage of them. Let's make our elected officials accountable for their actions, starting with the president himself. George W. Bush has the worst record of any president in history of failures to do his duty. He should be impeached and made an example to every politician in this country. It's more than a right of the people, it is mandated in the Constitution to do so as the only means to rectify the sins of the president and other high elected or appointed officials.
The syndrome of elitist, self-serving government that refuses to be accountable for its actions must be exposed and subjected to rectification. There is no other way to ensure that all Americans get the health care and other things they need to achieve life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in this wonderful country.
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» RE: An insidious syndrome is the problem
Posted by: edith
» RE: An insidious syndrome is the problem
Posted by: fearless flower
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Posted by: madmac10 on Aug 28, 2007 11:44 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Free public education is socialist-- and was accused of being back when suffragettes stormed the streets to get their children out of work houses. Free public education was instituted merely as an alternative to child labor. The capitalists who employed children accused those mothers of socialism--TO NO AVAIL!
What's the matter with mothers these days who will not take to the streets to get their children nationalized health care? Are they so cowed that epithets by the likes of that fat-cat transvestite will turn them back when stones and billy-clubs didn't turn back their grandmothers?
Maybe it is the fault of a free public education. Perhaps it is what generated this apathy. Maybe those turn-of-the-century capitalists were right and we should abolish free public education as well.
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» RE: Missed the Point (Again)
Posted by: edith
» RE: Missed the Point (Again)
Posted by: willbonds
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Posted by: NumberSix on Aug 28, 2007 11:48 AM
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My late departed father passed away back in Feb, m'kay? Mom gets the hospital bill. It reads like a purchase order for a B2, replete with full IFR package installed, yes.
Some fees, of course, were between NASA and Raytheon in cost, of course.
"Ibuprofen - $10......EACH???", she gasped.
No, it's not a typo. See, because hospitals, by law, are not allowed to turn anyone away, for any reason, welllllllll.......who do you think eats that loss?
(Jeopardy theme goes here)
Pens down. "Who is everyone else who has coverage?", is, yes, the correct answer.
Yes. Anyone who has anything resembling coverage, oh, yes, we, like bad accountants, end up eating these losses, and golly gosh, we don't get our monies worth, now do we?
Meaning? We pay the tab for health care, period, we just don't realize where it comes from. US. You, me, anyone with a card in their pocket. So, why don't we get better, and for everyone? Ask Roche. Ask Parke-Davis. Ask Humana. Ask Blue Cross-Blue Shield. Study their profit and loss statements. There's your answer.
Get them out of the loop, yes. Then, we can all share the ride a little better.
And Rethugs, sorry, you just get these lovely parting gifts, including Tylenol at $10 each. Sorry, but that's for playing!
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Posted by: solrev on Aug 28, 2007 11:51 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: hurricane hugo on Aug 28, 2007 12:01 PM
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plur
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Aug 28, 2007 12:01 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The truth is the wealthy don't want to see everybody living to a ripe old age,healthy, and full of life. It costs too much. They can't figure out what to do with the people we have now.That's why they plan wars all around the world.Just to keep their enterprises going. Healthcare for all,isn't one of them. If we allowed for everyone to have the best care possible,that would make the common person equal to the wealthiest.Not in America! This is the land of Millionaire Doctors,serving Billionaire Clients. To make the poor equal to the rich would be.....humane.
Don't let washington fool you. We have the money for Healthcare for school children and the rest of us too. We just need to get out of the 'War business'.
The preamble says 'To promote the General Welfare'. I believe these were oaths meant to be stronger than the constitution. If that is the case,then I put before you, isn't healthcare for all the very definition of promoting the general welfare? We are wasting time debating something that should be a 'given' in an 'advanced society'. You would think they would have figured out a long time ago the Country that gives it's People Healthcare would be a Country whose People would be eager to defend it. Could nonsupport be the reason not o many folks are signing up to die for the Oil Barons? Maybe. Could be we're just sick of killing.Killers should be heald responsible for their acts. By subsidizing big industry the government is an accomplace to the premature deaths of millions of People for their environmental protection laws that are at best a small attempt at control and at worst a joke!
For this more that anyother reason we need to protect our children and the futures,by giving Healthcare to all People,of all ages,in all incomes.
If you still want your head transplanted onto another body,there'll still be 'Surgery for Hire' Doctors.
Draft jeffrey7 for Prez
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» RE: Follow the money. where does the buck stop
Posted by: solrev
» RE: Follow the money. where does the buck stop,where there are no people
Posted by: jeffrey7
» RE: Follow the money.
Posted by: edith
» RE: Follow the money.
Posted by: willbonds
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Posted by: edith on Aug 28, 2007 12:19 PM
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there is no free lunch. in the end the public pays for public health care through taxes, premiums and even prices(to corporations that pass tax expense down to the customer).
How many years do we keep people on the respirator because religious nuts scream murder or those who believe you gotta "battle" every disease, no matter how fatal demand millions of dollars of care per patient?
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» RE: Can the Public Pull the Plug?
Posted by: solrev
» RE: Can the Public Pull the Plug?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: antiapathy on Aug 28, 2007 1:00 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My government taxes me and spends that money on all kinds of BS, like invading countries that pose no threat to our safety. Training assassins. Rewarding corporations for exporting jobs to China. The list goes on and on. If they are not going to provide for our basic rights, why do we even consent to their rule?
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» RE: Human Rights? What?
Posted by: solrev
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Posted by: donl51 on Aug 28, 2007 2:16 PM
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Posted by: InsertNameHere on Aug 28, 2007 4:18 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After workers have served their purpose there is little need to spend money on maintaining their health. Now if the semi-literate workforce wants to pay for some of that healthcare, well that's different, by all means, let me get the door for you Mr. John Q. Public, have a seat, tell where it hurts.
They can't wait until they can finally hammer that last stubborn nail in the coffin, social security. Then the ultimate wet dream of capitalism can finally come true, pay or die.
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Posted by: billwald on Aug 28, 2007 5:57 PM
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Posted by: Puffin on Aug 28, 2007 9:02 PM
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If you believe the current propaganda that only the uneducated lower classes smoke, then you have to think that it's is a regressive tax. And if you believe that raising the tax will reduce smoking, then where do you think the funding for "health insurance for needy children" is headed? It doesn't make sense to fund a needed program that will need room to grow with a funding source that is expected to decline.
The sixty-one cent per pack increase is not a tax on the tobacco companies. It's a tax on people who don't fit the bourgeois paradigm of what you're currently "supposed to do". It's an obnoxious and mean-spirited piece of social engineering and deserves to be vetoed, even if by the wrong person for all the wrong reasons.
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» RE: BUT ONLY SMOKERS SHOULD PAY?
Posted by: bittershaman
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Posted by: cashelboylo on Aug 28, 2007 11:32 PM
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For those reasons, ancient Rome, the base model for American government, provided all citizens -- and all slaves -- with free education.
And free health care.
In fact, both education and health care were not only free but compulsory. Citizens, slaves and slave-owners who did not utilize these facilities were severely punished.
The government of Rome insisted that all citizens and slaves be able to understand and carry out orders -- and that they be fit for any task they were given to perform.
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Posted by: ld7440 on Aug 29, 2007 9:57 AM
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Liberal, conservative, Democrat, Republican - who gives a damn? Who are we here to protect? I guess politicians are looking to protect private insurance companies, not children. Shame on them.
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Posted by: Ian MacLeod on Aug 29, 2007 10:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As far as caring for needy goes, when are people going to figure out that it's just not a neocon priority? I've heard the rich opinion of "the working class" and the poor: Keep profits up by paying as little as possible for labor and raw materials. Benefits hurt the bottom line, so shave them or remove them any way you can. Safety regulations hurt the bottom line - it's money out of the owner's and investor's pockets, so get around them. Peole who work know the chances of getting hurt, and it's their choice; they don't have to work there. When workers get sick, it isn't the problem of the company, so why should the company have to pay? Children produce nothing, and again, they're not the responsibility of the corporations. Why should business have to pay for the stupidity of the poor? If they're too poor to take care of children, they shouldn't have children.
That's Rich "logic". They have no sense of community, they feel no responsibility toward their workers any more than they do to any other raw material. Workers are subhuman things that fill a need in business, but there are always more out there than they need. It makes it easy to dump the ones with problems and just get others. This is the Bush "philosophy", too. Workers are raw materials, and if a few are damaged or wasted because of their own choices to work in a particular place, or because they don't take care of themselves, let 'em die or find some way to handle it - it isn't the responsibility of businesses trying to make a profit.
Ian
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Posted by: jacksmith on Aug 30, 2007 3:29 PM
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American Citizens are ask to step forward for the American people, and National health care for all. And target, and run against every politician that does not sign on to aggressive endorsement, and passage of John Conyers Bill HR 676. On a platform of National health care for all, Now! Each representative will be given a DEADline by which to respond in writing. Those that do not respond. Or that do not endorse immediate passage of this bill with full veto override if needed will be targeted for removal.
This can be done people. This is your duty. Hopefully you wont have to run, or serve. But you must be willing to do so. If you have to. It's time for the real American patriots to step forward. America, and your fellow citizens need you. The old people. The young people. The children. The babies all need you. You must start now. You must be aggressive, and relentless. You must not tire. You must take good care of your-selves so you can fight tough. Millions of life's are at steak. The time is now. You must not fail people. Some of you who have been wiped out by illness, and medical bills. You can do this. If you get elected to the house, or senate you'll have good health care coverage. BY GOD!!!! Actors, artist, every day people. Mother's, Fathers. Young people. You can do this.
Don't be distracted. There are paid teams out their that will try to distract you from this. Don't let them. Don't let world events, or new tragedy's at home distract you. Health Care is the #1 concern of the American people. Flood the media over the weeks and months till passage of National Health care. Make sure every discussion, and argument is about National health care. You can do this America. YOU CAN DO IT!!!!
And be strategic. If you have to run and another candidate looks like he or she will have a better chance of a win than you. And if they support non-profit, tax supported, single payer, National Health Insurance. Then drop out at the right time. And throw your whole hearted support to them. On the other hand. If you had to run because the politician in power failed to support passage of HR 676. Then do every thing in your power to win, and to see that they don't get reelected. Even if several of you have to run to take him out. Remember this is not a democratic, or republican issue. It's an American issue. We don't really wont their job. We just want good National Health care for all Americans. Be tough. Be brutal if need be.
To our friends around the world. We welcome your help, and advise. Don't be offended by the people that lash out at you. Or tell you to mind your own business. They don't really speak for most Americans. We, America is a part of all of you. We need your help, and advice. And we appreciate any input you have to help us solve our health care crises.
Love...
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Posted by: willbonds on Aug 30, 2007 7:49 PM
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