ECONOMY  
Truthdig / By Marie Cocco
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 271

While Europeans Vacation, Americans Toil

Shorter vacations, longer work weeks and skimpy sick leave for Americans add up -- not to greater upward mobility, but to a burned-out workforce earning less than preceding generations.
July 12, 2007  |  
 
 
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If you're reading this while on vacation, great for you. If you're reading this at work, having recently finished a vacation or a five-day weekend cobbled together around last week's celebration of Independence Day, I hope the time off was as spectacular as the fireworks.

If you won't get another day off work until December's holiday season, you're not alone. Americans and vacations just don't mix.

This may surprise those who have just spent hours stranded at airports or idling in a hot line for a ride at an amusement park. But a quarter of American workers get no paid vacation or paid holidays. And on average, those private-sector workers who do get paid time off are granted only nine vacation days and six paid holidays each year, according to government statistics analyzed by the Center for Economic and Policy Research.

The liberal-leaning think tank analyzed paid vacation and holiday leave policies among the U.S. and nations with comparably developed economies--the European Union, Canada, Japan, Australia and New Zealand. The predictable portrait is one of the United States as a nation of workaholics--a syndrome related less to the archetype of a striving executive than it is linked to government policy.

In the rest of the industrialized world, a month or more of paid vacation is typical, and often required. Many Americans know that. And there are can-you-top-this supplements to this surfeit of paid time off. Such as: In Austria, workers who labor at "heavy night work" get two or three extra days off. Also in Austria--as well as in Sweden and New Zealand--workers are actually paid at a higher rate when they're on vacation than when they're at work.

In France, workers get extra paid time off if they take some of their vacation days outside of the summer season. In Norway, those 60 and older get extra time off. And of course, your vacation could be ruined if you get sick while you're away. So Sweden guarantees that if a worker becomes sick while on leave, the days of the illness don't count against vacation time.

Stingy leave policies in the United States go hand and hand with weekly work hours that exceed those in many industrialized countries. And they parallel skimpy sick leave and family leave policies that give millions of Americans no effective safety net when illness or emergencies strike. Nearly half of private-sector workers--57 million people--have no paid sick days, according to Rep. Rosa DeLauro, D-Conn., a chief sponsor of a measure to require at least some sick days for employees who work more than 30 hours per week. The problem is particularly acute for low-wage workers, more than three-fourths of whom get no paid leave when they are ill.

In theory, all this hard work is supposed to spark a more robust economy that is, in turn, an engine of greater upward mobility than what is found in the supposedly coddled precincts of, say, the European Union. But lately, it hasn't. An ongoing, bipartisan study of intergenerational economic mobility conducted jointly by conservative and liberal-leaning researchers for the Pew Charitable Trusts has found the myth of superior American mobility to be--a myth.

Researchers for the Economic Mobility Project studied the relationship of adult children's incomes to those of their parents and found that the United States now lags behind France, Germany, Sweden, Canada, Finland, Norway and Denmark in this measure of upward mobility. "There is little available evidence that the United States has more relative mobility than other advanced nations," the group reported in May. "If anything, the data seem to suggest the opposite."

Comparing the incomes of American men who were in their 30s in 2004 with males who were in their 30s in 1974, the researchers found that today's men actually earn about 12 percent less, after inflation, than their fathers' generation did. "There has been no progress at all for the youngest generation," the group reported. The American family stays afloat because its total income has been swelled by women's paychecks.

The sober statistics should lead toward saner economic policies. Europe, Canada and the rest of the industrialized world are doing just fine with guaranteed health insurance, pensions, maternity leave and sick time--not to mention a month at the beach. Here at home, nothing threatens the American dream so much as political disinclination to cast off old thinking and demand change for new and harsher economic times.
Marie Cocco is a prize-winning syndicated columnist on political and cultural topics for The Washington Post Writers Group. She is a frequent commentator on national TV and radio shows.
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Americans are getting shafted
[Report this comment]
Posted by: georgiaorwell on Jul 12, 2007 1:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you, Marie, for writing this article. It's becoming a well known fact that the US government and private industry are, well, BIG TIGHTWADS! They spend billions of dollars in numerous countries but do not take care of their own people. If you work for the US Gov in Europe, your housing may be taken care of, but your pay is in US dollars - not indexed, like multi-national companies, to scale with the euro (or country in which you work). Multi-nationals will pay for expat housing and index their pay to pound sterling or euros, including benefits. Also, I know of many expats who willingly go to work in France or the NL, etc., just to have the holiday/vacation/paid leave, which is generous and totally surpasses the US's stingy 9 days. Also, the healthcare is so much better and cheaper, which is either non-existent for US workers or hugely expensive. Truth is - it ends up being a higher quality of life in Europe, but the US doesn't pay either its workers, home or abroad, a decent wage. Consider, also, the way they pay and treat US troops abroad and it's a crime!

The US government and corporations are destroying what used to be a proud nation of hard-working people - they simply do not appear to care about ever making improvements in people's lives. Imagine the millions of Americans who are trying to pay for their families while striving to pay off college loans - in many European countries, these loans are forgiven after a few years - automatically. Our Congress simply never passes anything in the people's interest and America has become a land for simply the rich and richer - everyone else can pretty much go to hell when you look at the way the American people are treated by the fatcat politicians and corporate fascists.

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» Well said! Posted by: redceres
» RE: Well said! Posted by: Trazom
» RE: CHRISTIAN AMERICA! Posted by: Cathyc

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More vacation time improves the economy
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Annarisse on Jul 12, 2007 3:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) When full-time workers take time off for any reason, part-time workers usually pick up most, or sometimes all, of the missed work. This gives people who are struggling a chance to get some full-time hours and experience in a situation that involves a definite time limit - and therefore reduced risk for employer and employee.
2) In France, the school system is set up to accommodate vacations at different points in the year, so families with young children can often take a week's holiday on the ski slopes and another week's holiday at the beach. Imagine the boost this gives to the tourist industry! Imagine the seasonal jobs that open up, especially for students!
3) Happy workers are better workers. So are healthy ones.

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americans get their reward after death
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Posted by: richholland on Jul 12, 2007 4:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes brave patriots work untill you drop dead and you will go to heaven...
What will happen as many young americans come to Europe, there is plenty of work to do.?????

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» Hey, why not.... Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: Hey, why not.... Posted by: willymack

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Outsourcing and Contracting
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Posted by: kelt65 on Jul 12, 2007 4:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I work in IT, which seems to be under assault by the military industrial complex these days. It seems 50% of the IT jobs out there are with some company that makes bombs.

At any rate, these are the companies that get big contracts to do IT work, both for the government and large corporations. Whenever the contract switches hands, typically workers lose all their time put in towards more vacation. Most companies, for example, will increment you an extra week of vacation after five years. Not so for a contractor. Of course, they have policies which amount to the same thing, but if the contract switches hands, you're "reset." Even though I've essentially worked for the same people for the last five years, I've actually seen my vacation time get smaller, the contract keeps getting skimpier, it seems.

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» Basically, yes Posted by: ateo

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Every summer a similar article is posted...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: olderworker on Jul 12, 2007 4:33 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
..while it's true that Americans get less paid vacation time than workers in other countries, there is nothing to stop us from taking unpaid leave.
I know that not everyone can do this, but last year, when I changed jobs, I took a week off in-between the last day of the old job and start date of the new job, and took the bus up to Quebec City (I live in Boston, so this is fairly cheap & easy to do). I also took two unpaid weeks a couple of months after starting the new job, because had already made arrangements to go to France. And, NO, I'm not paid very much. I do budget travel with a capital "B", looking for the cheapest flights months ahead of the trip and renting a house from a friend who owns a house in France.
Again, it may not be possible for the average debt-laden American (I do have school loans but no credit card or car loan debt, and no mortgage) but I recommend taking as much vacation time as you can!!

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Oh Gee
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Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line on Jul 12, 2007 4:37 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe if people did careers they liked more they would not whine about not having time off. Time off is all fine and well and certainly appreciated, but if you work only forty hours a week, that really is not all that many hours. Thats vacation in and of itself. I cannot fathom the idea of working only 40 hours a week, and somehow I get everything(or almost everything) done that I need to...Plus get to take some quality time for myself. Time management is a good thing... Certainly I am not suggesting that people should not get vacations...

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» RE: Oh Gee Posted by: Jabby
» RE: Oh Gee Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Oh Gee Posted by:
» RE: Oh Gee Posted by: John Wilbur
» RE: Oh Gee Posted by: RaW
» To all y'all Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» Look again.. Posted by: superdan
» RE: Look again.. Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» Inverse logic. Posted by: justaguy
» Fascist? Posted by: justaguy
» Yes, fascist. Posted by: mjabele
» After all this time... Posted by: mjabele
» Narcissistic hypocrite. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Oh Gee Posted by: cstrut
» RE: Oh Gee cstrut Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» rotting Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: rotting Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: rotting Posted by: YogiBear
» Anybody? Posted by: moflard
» RE: Anybody? Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Oh Gee Posted by: jmp3954

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Power in the Hands of Corporations
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Posted by: igoeja on Jul 12, 2007 4:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For the past several years I've been telling myself the following:

What's good for corporations is bad for people.

A bit oversimplified, but true.

There is no illusion as to what benefits from laws regarding sick leave, health care, etc. It is the corporations that hire people. The idea that what is good for the economy is good for people is rarely true, and although the goals can seem related, they are only positively related by the rate of productivity growth, rather than productivity itself.

Also, the wealth of middle class America comes at the expense of the wealthy - a historical analysis From Wealth and Democracy by Kevin Philips, although the 90's would seem to belie this truth - so the recent cuts in capital gains and corporate taxes, combined with lax IRS oversight and CEO greed, have created a new gilded-age economic divide. Part of the way the US can become better for the middle and lower classes is by empowering unions and taxing the wealthy, along with creating a universal health care system, reducing the military, and creating laws that reduce the control of corporations.

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Here is Australia's comparrison
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Posted by: Nedtheredhead on Jul 12, 2007 4:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.workingtoday.com.au/leave1.html

ANNUAL LEAVE
Most employees are entitled to four weeks paid annual leave after each 12 months work. Most employees are additionally entitled to 17.5% annual leave loading.
A casual employee's hourly rate includes an amount in lieu of paid annual leave.
LONG SERVICE LEAVE
Different provisions apply in each state and territory. Generally, long service leave accrues each year and after an employee reaches the qualifying period, he or she entitled to take paid leave.
SICK LEAVE
Most employees who are sick or injured and cannot work are entitled to be paid for a limited period. The employer must be informed as soon as possible (within 24 hours) if you are sick. In most cases, after using two days sick leave in any year the employee will be required to show proof of illness - a medical certificate (in some cases a Statutory Declaration may be accepted).
CARER'S LEAVE
An employee is entitled to use up to five days personal leave each year as carer’s leave to provide care and support for members of the employee's immediate family or household who are sick and require care and support.
BEREAVEMENT LEAVE
In most cases two days paid leave is available upon the death in Australia of an employee's immediate family member. This includes parent, child, grandparent, sibling, spouse and ex-spouse. In addition up to ten days unpaid leave may be granted. Paid leave is not available for more distant family members.

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» RE: Here is Australia's comparrison Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: Here is Australia's comparrison Posted by: animalleaderisgreat
» He is a neoconservative... Posted by: justaguy
» RE: He is a neoconservative... Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» Oh really? Posted by: justaguy
» What is your point? (nm) Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Here is Australia's comparrison Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: Third World Country..... Posted by: The Butcher
» RE: Third World Country..... Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» Is this an advertisement? Posted by: justaguy
» Blame Hawke as much as anyone. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Blame Hawke as much as anyone. Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» Oh, you're an idiot. Posted by: justaguy
» Oh , and... Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Oh , and... Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» The Courier - Mail.... Posted by: justaguy
» RE: The Courier - Mail.... Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» Nonsense. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Nonsense. Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» Oh FFS. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Oh FFS. Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» Yes. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Yes. Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» No, they didn't. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: No, they didn't. Posted by: Nedtheredhead

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Still time for a kiss in the AM
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Posted by: Conservasaurus on Jul 12, 2007 5:21 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Regardless of what country you live in, certan laws of economics prevail - one must work for a living - and it seems the French are realizing this even though American liberals want their SUV's and time off as well!

CNN.Com - PARIS, France (Reuters) -- Their new president wants to get the French to work harder to compete in global markets, but some traditions are likely to endure -- including long holidays, a kiss for colleagues in the morning, and a decent lunch. ............

Newly elected president Nicolas Sarkozy may not agree. With unemployment hovering above 8 percent and the economy barely growing 2 percent, at issue is whether France can keep up its lifestyle and be competitive.

"France is really going downhill," said Jeremy Salomon, a Frenchman working as a project manager at optical manufacturer GrandOptical in the southwest suburbs of Paris.

"If there is no change, France will be at the end of the queue in terms of productivity."

Conservative Sarkozy has promised to tackle this problem, with reforms aimed at restoring the values of hard work and rewarding people who "get up early". He wants to make the 35-hour work week a minimum, not maximum, requirement, allowing people to work more.

"Sarkozy wants to make it possible for people who work overtime to be paid for it," Salomon said. "I think he wants to try to change the French mentality in terms of work ethic."

While Americans focus on productivity, Salomon said the French waste time with meetings. He joked that another big time-drain was the tradition of greeting everyone in the morning by kissing them twice on cheek: "That's like 20 minutes gone by."

Salomon is not paid overtime, even though he usually works from 9 a.m. to 7 p.m., with an hour for lunch. Instead, he gets extra vacation -- which adds up to so many days off it is hard to find time to work.

"We get 48 days off, not including national holidays," he said. "So much vacation time makes it hectic to work."

Whining and dining

Despite free time and benefits that workers in other countries may envy, many in France are still discontented. One recent study found French workers the world's biggest whiners.

Yet according to Thomas Philippon, a New York University Stern School of Business professor, this is not because the French hate work: they value hard work highly.

He said a lack of internal promotion at companies and a lack of cooperation are some reasons why French workers are unhappy.

"Overall in France, internal promotion has a bad connotation. If someone gets promoted, we think he's a suck-up."

Another gripe is that raw recruits hired direct from elite institutions are put in charge of more experienced workers.

Isabelle Perrin, a spokeswoman for the CFDT, one of France's largest unions, said the French worker is unjustly maligned: what France needs is more people being put to productive use to help pay the pensions of an ageing population...............

Brina Goldfarb, an American who has been working in Paris for three and a half years, believes France's leader is spouting "free-market jargon" and ignoring reality.

Goldfarb, who works at a small architectural firm, said she is contracted to work a 39-hour week, but does about 50 hours. "I can't see my boss paying us for all the extra overtime." Like many in France, however, her overtime work is compensated by extra time off, not cash. Back home, she would be richer but the French lifestyle and a French fiance won her over: "I did think I would have had a more humane life than if I was working in New York."

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» RE: Still time for a kiss in the AM Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Equilibrium Posted by: CatDad
» RE: quilibrium Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: quilibrium Posted by: babs
» RE: quilibrium Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: quilibrium Posted by: Rolomax
» Productivity, schmoductivity. Posted by: justaguy

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In the army…
[Report this comment]
Posted by: White middleclass male on Jul 12, 2007 7:03 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
…we get 30 days of paid leave per year (Usually 2 week in the summer and 2 weeks around Christmas). Viva la Status Quo.

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» RE: In the army… Posted by: moflard
» It's 30 days period Posted by: ateo
» RE: In the army… Posted by: famouspipeliner

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Not only productivity
[Report this comment]
Posted by: daro on Jul 12, 2007 7:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans can't take or don't take long holidays so only some 5% hold a passport. Indeed, apparently only 15% of Congress members hold a passport.
Is it any surprise therefore that Americans generally exhibit such a woeful ignorance of and even indifference to the rest of the world?
For some years I ran a Tourist Company in France and led groups of Americans on walking trips. One of the pleasures was to be able to present clients with new experiences and visit places that they would not otherwise have seen. It was a permanent surprise to discover how many of these intelligent and highly-paid people were so out of touch with things beyond their frontiers. And it was utterly depressing to encounter every now and again the executive who had to phone his office daily or receive reams of faxed data - the guy who couldn't let go!
You should get out more!

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» RE: Not only productivity Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» You're history is f***ed up. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: You're history is f***ed up. Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» You keep compromising then.. Posted by: justaguy
» And would you rather... Posted by: justaguy
» RE: And would you rather... Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» Are you in the CEC? Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Are you in the CEC? Posted by: Nedtheredhead

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Obesity, anti-depressants...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Jul 12, 2007 7:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's no wonder we are the most obese and depressed/manic citizens on the planet...

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Canada and the EU sure are looking better every day...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: arclight on Jul 12, 2007 8:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...and if I could get permanent residency and a work permit in a place like Germany, I surely would. Like, today.

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UNIONS ARE STILL THE ONLY ANSWER
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 12, 2007 8:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Long Hours, fear of losing the job, low pay, limited time off all contribute to many social ills. Homelife is almost extinct. Everybody is 'busy'. Children are shuffled around non-stop. Unnecessary shopping wastes so much time. When people can relax about how the bills are paid all that changes. It's all a form of distraction. Like it or not, it's about organizing. Labor unions are not a handout, but they afford people some protection and job security. Thanks, ANNA

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» Unions today- Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: Unions today-The four hour day.... Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Unions today-The four hour day.... Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Unions today- Posted by: EJ

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I remember a news story from years ago
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Posted by: sausage on Jul 12, 2007 8:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't remember which network's evening news program nor even the date, though suffice it to say it was sometime in the mid to late Seventies or early Eighties, when I saw a story about a union trying to organize a factory in some Southern state.

I don't even recall the union or industry but I clearly remember a statement from a wizened, woman worker, who opposed union organization:"We don't wanna union, we wanna work!"

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» Probably North Carolina Posted by: YogiBear

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I remember a news story from years ago
[Report this comment]
Posted by: sausage on Jul 12, 2007 8:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't remember which network's evening news program nor even the date, though suffice it to say it was sometime in the mid to late Seventies or early Eighties, when I saw a story about a union trying to organize a factory in some Southern state.

I don't even recall the union or industry but I clearly remember a statement from a wizened, woman worker, who opposed union organization:"We don't wanna union, we wanna work!"

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Elementary, yes, elementary. Read on.
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Posted by: american on Jul 12, 2007 9:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This razzle, dazzle, watch-out-for-my-left-while-I-hit-you-with my-right gig is old hat: The Romans, the Soviets, the Nazi's all practiced it and Machiavelli, among others, codified it.

To gain easily - that is, without giving something of equal value in return - is to steal. To steal, one must lie. Both are bad. To be bad is to go against God, Nature.

Morality aside, the "received" economic, political, and policy "doctrines" that are blown from one corner of the media the other and back, like cottony tree seeds in a twister have us in a tailspin. Not one of these seeds sprouts a useful tree– Are they intended to? Wingtips kicking your downed body from the other side, New York and Washington institutes and foundations that have a million to one preference as media audience vs. you and me expulse all the more hot air from “above.”

From the same quadrant Bush and Cheney have us frantic putting out thousands of purposely-set fires of ineffable nonsense and prevaricated injustice. Part of the game plan is to keep us occupied so we can't maintain our democracy. We can't stretch our arms and minds with free time in order to create, mend, regroup and reflect. If we are on our heels, we cannot be on our toes. We embody less competition: fewer and fewer tycoons that'll ever walk out from the garage or basement; fewer people with less energy and spare time to challenge the injustices. The harder it is for us, the easier it is for them. And – Oh! – lately, has it been easy for them!

Democracy seeks inclusivity; capitalism seeks exclusivity. Democracy gains by what you know; capitalism gains by what you do not--this is why we are trained instead of educated. This is why we only have useless tripe from the “mainstream” media. These people, while appearing to come from different quarters – government, media, corporate and advocacy chairs – feigning contrast, are all essentially the same group of people: The Money People. We would all know this clearly if we were indeed educated. We would discern that all of the pillars of "conservatism" have fallen except the "principle" of buoying the wealthy. We would maybe reflect that floodgates of globalization that New York and Hollywood broke open sanctioned the global backwash that has flushed our culture and customs so that that have become in all ways distorted or extinguished.

We would see the disharmony not just between unfettered capitalism and democracy but between capitalism and the environment. See, industry can exact real costs on the environment, which impact people and all life. Industry does not want to account for these costs. They do not want to pay for them. (Life on earth be damned.) Things may not add up, and, God forbid, people will have to transfer to new, more local and self-reliant forms of getting what they need. That would mean no more revenue stream. Enter the by, -for, and -of industry government.

Look at the big picture. The kids funneling through the elite prep schools and universities while claiming eminent qualification have left this country’s government, industry, health system, culture, and environment in worse conditions to high degrees in nearly all ways.

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Elementary, yes, elementary. Read on.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: american on Jul 12, 2007 9:47 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This razzle, dazzle, watch-out-for-my-left-while-I-hit-you-with my-right gig is old hat: The Romans, the Soviets, the Nazi's all practiced it and Machiavelli, among others, codified it.

To gain easily - that is, without giving something of equal value in return - is to steal. To steal, one must lie. Both are bad. To be bad is to go against God, Nature.

Morality aside, the "received" economic, political, and policy "doctrines" that are blown from one corner of the media the other and back, like cottony tree seeds in a twister have us in a tailspin. Not one of these seeds sprouts a useful tree– Are they intended to? Wingtips kicking your downed body from the other side, New York and Washington institutes and foundations that have a million to one preference as media audience vs. you and me expulse all the more hot air from “above.”

From the same quadrant Bush and Cheney have us frantic putting out thousands of purposely-set fires of ineffable nonsense and prevaricated injustice. Part of the game plan is to keep us occupied so we can't maintain our democracy. We can't stretch our arms and minds with free time in order to create, mend, regroup and reflect. If we are on our heels, we cannot be on our toes. We embody less competition: fewer and fewer tycoons that'll ever walk out from the garage or basement; fewer people with less energy and spare time to challenge the injustices. The harder it is for us, the easier it is for them. And – Oh! – lately, has it been easy for them!

Democracy seeks inclusivity; capitalism seeks exclusivity. Democracy gains by what you know; capitalism gains by what you do not--this is why we are trained instead of educated. This is why we only have useless tripe from the “mainstream” media. These people, while appearing to come from different quarters – government, media, corporate and advocacy chairs – feigning contrast, are all essentially the same group of people: The Money People. We would all know this clearly if we were indeed educated. We would discern that all of the pillars of "conservatism" have fallen except the "principle" of buoying the wealthy. We would maybe reflect that floodgates of globalization that New York and Hollywood broke open sanctioned the global backwash that has flushed our culture and customs so that that have become in all ways distorted or extinguished.

We would see the disharmony not just between unfettered capitalism and democracy but between capitalism and the environment. See, industry can exact real costs on the environment, which impact people and all life. Industry does not want to account for these costs. They do not want to pay for them. (Life on earth be damned.) Things may not add up, and, God forbid, people will have to transfer to new, more local and self-reliant forms of getting what they need. That would mean no more revenue stream. Enter the by, -for, and -of industry government.

Look at the big picture. The kids funneling through the elite prep schools and universities while claiming eminent qualification have left this country’s government, industry, health system, culture, and environment in worse conditions to high degrees in nearly all ways.

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From someone who knows both sides...
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Posted by: helgerry on Jul 12, 2007 11:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm an american citizen who moved to the Netherlands 7 years ago and never regretted it (in spite of the weather :)... When I go back to the States and tell my friends and relatives how many paid vacation days I have per year (35 !!! Yes you read that right! 35 ! plus sick days!), they're all stunned! By law everybody gets a vacation premium in May equal to your monthly salary. Every year I make it a point to visit a different european country.
I pay a small premium for a relatively good health care coverage (including dental). Life is somehow expensive but you get paid a decent salary to be able to maintain a good quality of life. Low crime rate in Amsterdam compared to Miami or New York where I used to live... I do not need a gun for my safety here!
My kids have a better future here without a doubt (that my wife is Dutch helps of course). The education system here is one the best in the world and it will not cost you $20.000-30.000/year for a university degree! Yes I pay more taxes compared to the US but frankly I don't mind because the government puts it to good use... Some narrow-minded americans call it a socialist system here but I pity their ignorance...
Yes the Dutch have their particular problems just like anywhere else (there is no paradise on Earth), but anybody with a decent job here has a better quality life than a comparable salary range worker in the States. Most Europeans are well-travelled and relatively aware of what's going on beyond their borders (they have the time and money for that!)
America has become a land for the rich and famous. The greedy corporations are destroying what was once a mighty proud country! But I'll still say "God Bless America" or what's left of it... Time for a revolution folks!!

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» yeah, but Posted by: grim ripper
» RE: yeah, but Posted by: janakiblum
» RE: "I'm an american citizen" therein lies the problem Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line

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silver lining
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Posted by: rah on Jul 12, 2007 12:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is there a silver lining to being overworked? unfortunately, the answer seems to be a resounding-NO. it seems humans are not only forced to keep up with one another, but also keep up with continually increasing technological capabilites. that is, some people have expectations that humans should improve themselves as fast as technology is improved.

couldn't unions help with these kind of situations? are we to socially disconnected to form new robust unions in commmercial spaces that have traditionally had no unions? are we to scared of employer consequences if we were to unionize?

i think these are all factors, but what stops most employees from gaining leverage is a lack of energy. thus, being overworked takes away the time and energy needed to defend ones rights adequately.

Juliet Schor wrote this book
The overworked American: the unexpected decline of leisure

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» RE: silver lining Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: silver lining Posted by: WitchyNy

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Law vs. policy
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Posted by: Blue Heron on Jul 12, 2007 2:47 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We could have all the 'policies' we want, and still have no fair or reasonable situation for medical or leisure time off. Maybe I missed it, but I don't see any mention of the lack of actual laws being necessary for sick or vacation leave. That is the real difference between the US and the rest of the world when it comes down to it. People should be very concerned about the fact that since there are no laws regarding this, you could literally work yourself into an early grave. The absence of such legislation means that a company could literally have a 'policy' of absolutely no time off whatsoever, for any reason. So anyone who was desperate to make a living would just have to put up and shut up. But that has been the state of our 'democracy' for long time now. Silence is golden in corporate Murka. People seem to have very little leeway in your 'land of the free.' Freedom to get screwed over is all I'm seeing here.

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» RE: Law vs. policy Posted by: EJ

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Then move to Europe
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Posted by: slydad on Jul 12, 2007 4:41 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The last thing we need in this country is a bunch of ingrates.

I know there's more opportunity here than anywhere else in the world. That's why there are many more people coming into this country than leaving. If you think that Europe is better, then go there, but don't try to foist your socialist and communist ideas on us.

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» Tell us about you plans ateo- Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: Tell us about you plans ateo- Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» Phsyco Posted by: slydad
» LOL Posted by: IPF
» RE: Then move to Europe Posted by: Blue Heron
» Good Posted by: slydad
» The neocons Posted by: slydad
» RE: Good Posted by: Blue Heron
» RE: Good Posted by: richholland
» I rest my case! Posted by: slydad
» What case? Posted by: justaguy
» I got your epithet! Posted by: slydad
» Try this one too. Posted by: slydad
» Sorry. Wrong link. Posted by: slydad
» The Heritage Foundation? Posted by: justaguy
» RE: The Heritage Foundation? Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Then move to Europe Posted by: spanky
» RE: Then move to Europe Posted by: Blue Heron

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Get over it
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Posted by: marid on Jul 12, 2007 6:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So you were in the military. Thanks for the time. Now get over it.

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ROFL, idiots
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Posted by: paschn on Jul 12, 2007 7:26 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Until about the mid seventies, this nation had some pretty reasonable employee laws and regulations protecting them from the "Knee walking" politicians and their protein providers, the corporations. In most cases the swine are the descendants of the very Republican robber barons That quite literally used their whores in the legislature to murder our antecedents. Our people literally gave their lives to force basic laws onto the books to protect the workers' basic rights and their safety. In fact, by using "our boys" against us, those Republican fat cats in some cases burned our wives and children alive, shot us, beat us to death, framed us and imprisoned us. But because (they had BALLS), they knew who the real bad guys were and had the courage to fight them, we got those laws passed, made unions, ( which brought up ALL workers wages and rights), and had a very healthy working class. Sadly, too many of you pathetic assholes have lost the ability to realize that corporations are NOT YOUR FRIENDS!! They manipulate you through their "pocket politicians". They eliminate laws that protected workers and when eliminating a law would be so obvious that even you working class Republican supporters could see what they're up to, they have their "knee Walkers" cut funding for the agencies that monitor them,( recall all the miners killed in the last few years? one company had over 340 violations in I believe 2 years). Was there an outcry? were there any demonstrations? were any descendants of those original robber barons brought to justice?
Sheep,...too many sheep, too busy killing foreigners for "Old Glory" to see how your taking it in the keester from your own corporations and their high protein sucklings called leaders. I'm not quite sure you all DESERVE it, but you're sure as hell begging for it.

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same ol same ol
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Posted by: Joe on Jul 12, 2007 7:39 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
while i don't disagree with the lack of vacation time why does everything have to be government based. are liberals minds so limited that they see no other way to solve a problem. while the governments solution people sit and wait for the government to solve this problem how about pointing out other solutions that may be out there that people can either contribute to or take advantage of now. how about putting a continual spotlight on companies that do give ample vacation time. all articles like this do is leave people sitting around to get angry.

to sum it up...how about giving out information that actually matters.

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» RE: same ol same ol Posted by: lilgov

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Plutocracy!
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Posted by: vertical on Jul 12, 2007 8:03 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Democracy went to the wayside, and we are now a plutocracy, so that means what the rich want the rich get from both the Democrats and the Republicans: Universal health care, vacations and good pensions would cost the rich, and the rich rule, so the rest of us are shit out of luck.

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» RE: Plutocracy! Posted by: ShakaDog

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Brooklynbrenda
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Posted by: Brooklynbrenda on Jul 12, 2007 8:33 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
SOOOO what are we gonna do about it???
**************************************************
How many of you DIDNT vote in the last election? How many of you NEVER vote? When was the last time you sent an email to your state representative? How about a phone call to you senator? Theyre not doing thier jobs cause we let them get away with it. If you dont believe me then let me remind all about what happened to the Bush/Dick "Social (non) Security" plan.
***************************************************
To those who cant fathom why goverment must get involved, its simple...our european cousins understand that for profit big bu$ine$$ (PHARMA, INSURANCE for example) is NOT ethical just because it would be the MORAL thing to do...they must be GUIDED by law and not just for the wealthy and connected.

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» RE: Brooklynbrenda Posted by: ShakaDog

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No time off?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Logic's Edge on Jul 12, 2007 10:10 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans get lots of time off. It's just between jobs after being "laid off", downsized, made redundant, age-discriminated against, mergered out, outsourced... etc.

Wouldn't call it a holiday though. Aren't holidays supposed to give one rest and relaxation?

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Too Little Too Late
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Posted by: macdon1 on Jul 12, 2007 11:10 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A lot of people in the US cling to the belief that our society is somehow different and more moral than any other. They are blind to history and refuse to believe that greed, conspiracy, deception and corruption are as rampant in our government as they were in ancient Rome or Greece. For 25 years while they have been concerning themselves with their small circle of family and friends the neocons have been amassing their power and control. Some of us have spent all those years trying to get people to listen. Now it's too late.

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The richest country in the world
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Posted by: zyclop on Jul 12, 2007 11:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is not the only problem that only that upper 1% of the population and the corporations have all the money and that the working "peons" have nothing.

Another problem factor is not even perceived by the smallest percentage of Americans: this country is not really as rich as is made to believe.

If the USA would have to put up a working railway system, electrified, two or more tracks, major city connectors running every hour from Eastcoast to Westcoast; get rid of all utility poles - bury all cable underground; get in all cities with half a million citizens and upward a running multilayer public transport system; and have the workers work 37.5h a week with 30 days of paid vacation and higher hourly rates as they have now: the country would be bankrupt ~

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The richest country in the world
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Posted by: zyclop on Jul 12, 2007 11:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And oh, by the way: over in Europe they do not live in caves anymore, you can buy batteries and they even got streets I have been told.

Looks to me like the standard of living is not really that much lower than in our country.

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Australia? Just lucky bastards!!!!!
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Posted by: The Butcher on Jul 13, 2007 4:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Imagine a country the size of a continent. A population the size of Mexico City.
Imagine every mineral just under the surface.
Imagine vast agricultural lands, some the size of a small country eg Belgium.
Australians are the most hedonistic incult self satisfied and vain people in the world.
They have never had to work for a living!
Still structurally a colony. Vast primary production supported by an enormous public service. Compliance is an industry here with thousands of mindless public servants and cops watching every move.
This is a country where you get a parking fine on an empty street in a suburb on a Saturday nighrt.
Talk about fascism.
Australians like to portray themselves as larrikins. They are the most regulated people on earth behind Singapore.
The gilded cage nanny state.
Beautiful and so boring.
So if you share those qualities of being boorish, selfish and complascent. You must be ready to come to Australia.
Surely, there are better songs!!!!!!!
Ask Indegenous people how wonderful Australia is.I nvite you all to visit Wiluna in Western Australia. One of the richest areas in the world... Nickel, Copper, gold ........98% unemployment amongst locals who are drunk 24/7. Life expectancy? ..bout 35 .Yeh.. Great social progress there.
Great country really.

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» RE: You are funny Posted by: The Butcher
» RE: You are funny Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: You are funny Posted by: The Butcher
» Ned is deluded. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Ned is deluded. Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» Now you're rewriting history. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Now you're rewriting history. Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» No, that's it. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: No, that's it. Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: You are funny Posted by: Nedtheredhead

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you might want to venture out one day.
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Posted by: The Butcher on Jul 13, 2007 4:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You'd be surpised!
They fly planes!
They have Doctors.
They live longer than you.
They hold raving discussions amongst friends about social issues.
They care about social solidarity. They do not live in a Darwinist timewarp. Ask the Swedes, the Germans, the French and the Irish. Bypass Britain where the social fabric is tearing apart. The highest child poverty rate in Europe!
Appalling Gini Index. Comparable to the US'S.. Talk Guatemala for comparison here.

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Don't forget...
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Posted by: The Butcher on Jul 13, 2007 5:14 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a country where Unemployed people go on strike!
Where the Unions are still working within an obsolete inherited stalinist framework.
In France Rich is BAD. You must have exploited some defenceless worker to get there.
This is a very polarised country.
Yet has one of the best social safety net along with Scandinavian Countries
The French need a touch of Realism.
Their system was devised in th 60's when unemployment was at its lowest and massive low level employment from former colonies was fostered.
France is interesting as it is fighting the EU on Agricultural Subsidies ( Translate Family Farms to keep the beautiful Landscape and adjunct economically viable towns and villages) against Monsanto.
Watch France to upset the cart. Somewhere between Scandinavian ( Norway, Finland, Sweden's social cleverness) , German's workers understanding and ability to cooperate with their Masters against Britain's/US recklessness poker table.
Thatcherism a la Blair will not survive the next Property Bubble in Britain. Britain's economy is far less resilient than the US's obviously.
Question is : how far are US workers prepared to work for below living costs earnings? What is the Bottom line?
Will there be a smooth landing as foreigners invest and bring social protection American Employers had forgotten? ie Toyota?Airbus? Daimler?
Will they rescue the American Worker?
Is it possible in this Industrial Environment?
All the Us is doing now is printing more dollars. How long before a meltdown?
It is not leading global business, it is merely sustaining it artificially.
Best
Regards
Francois

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» RE: Don't forget... Posted by: moflard

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Francis
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Posted by: Francis on Jul 13, 2007 5:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In order to understand why things in America are the way they are, one need only think "corporatism", that great organizing, controlling, allegedly self redeeming, self-congratulating force which controls us all. Corporatism causes wars, ghastly disparities in wealth distribution, grinding poverty, illness and death to those it does not favor, it is anti-democratic, oligarchic, unjust, and generally anti-human. It's essential driving force is greed and it knows how to use it's power to steal power from people and use it against them. In America, it buys representatives in Washington and turns them against humans. Example, a medicare bill which disallows negotiation over the price of pharmaceuticals. Can one imagine any other explanation for so bizarre a law?

Political power is a zero sum game. If someone has too much, someone else has too little. Special interests, overwhelmingly corporate interests, with the notable exception of certain favored foreign countries, have taken power from the people, that is, they have undermined our vaunted democracy. All political battles fought are, fundamentally, between corporatism and democracy. Democracy is losing badly. The net effect? Americans are working themselves to death for peanuts and barely surviving in two income households. Standards of living are being decimated for most and are kingly for a few. We are headed back to the "gilded age" when super rich capitalists built castles in Newport and millions starved and rode the rails. What could possibly intercede to interfere with this freefall? Enough of this. Now get back to work, no time to dilly-dally.

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» CorporaTISM! Posted by: WitchyNy

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impeachment
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Posted by: gsaephanh on Jul 13, 2007 1:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Call in your vote TODAY for impeaching Bush and Cheney at this number: 202-225-0100

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s office is taking calls voting for Impeachment of Bush/Cheney at 202-225-0100. PLEASE CALL TODAY. At the toll free capitol switchboard #s below, you can also call your particular district’s congressional representative to insist that they support impeachment for Cheney. E.g., for Rep. Dennis Kucinich’s H Res 333 for Cheney; please say:

“In addition to supporting Kucinich’s bill H Res 333, I would also support a similar Impeachment Resolution against Bush, especially after the disgraceful Scooter Libby sentence “commuting” and the following issues: wiretapping, torture, numerous 9/11 intelligence misrepresentations, the continued occupation of Iraq, gross negligence during Hurrican Katrina, the Valerie Plame CIA leak, […list your other grounds…] ..”[see resolutions on tab #2 for other grounds for impeachment]).

LANIC requests that Americans call today…Not tomorrow or next week. Every call adds to the extraordinary grasswoots and nationwide movement’s pressures on House Speaker Pelosi to act now .before further innocent lives are lost in Iraq and elsewhere. Last week 28 Americans lost their lives. Over the July 4, 2007 weekend over 400 Iraqis lost their lives…

SEND MAIL TO HOUSE SPEAKER NANCY PELOSI: Attn: Nancy Pelosi, House Representative/Speaker of the House, 235 Cannon H.O.B., Washington, DC 20515 ; Pelosi’s Fax # 202 225-8259

Pelosi’s e-mail address :

Americanvoices@mail.house.gov

CC her at: sf.nancy@mail.house.gov

Please send her a pro-impeachment email and a specific call to endorse H Res 333. Note: On Saturdays/Sundays, Pelosi’s office has a comment line at which you can leave a voicemail. Your message will be transcribed and relayed to her. Please do encourage your family/friends to contact the same number. Refer them to www.bcimpeach.com for the actual telephone #s & contact info.

Find out who your Congressional representative is and call that person. For toll free numbers to your Congress rep: (800) 828 – 0498; (800) 459 – 1887; or (866) 340 – 9281. You will be connected once you name your congress person. The staff aid should take detailed notes and provided to the Congressional representative.

Final Note: Please say “I support Impeachment based on ____. I’d like to know where “[representative name]” stands on this issue.” Let’s strike while the Libby fury keeps the iron hot! Please call and Act Now!

PLEASE ALSO CONTACT THESE KEY CONGRESSIONAL REPS RE IMPEACHMENT:
Representative Capitol Phone Capitol Fax
Howard Berman 202-225-4695 202-225-3196
& 818-944-7200 818-994-1050

MAILING ADDRESS FOR BERMAN
Congressman Howard L. Berman
14546 Hamlin Street, Suite 202
Van Nuys, CA 91411

Henry Waxman 202-225-3976 202-225-4099
Loreta Sanchez 202 225-2965 202-225-5859
D. Watson 202 225-7084 202-225-2422
LindaSanchez 202 225-6676 202-226-1012
L. Solis 202 225-5464 202-225-5467
A. G. Eshoo 202 225-8104 202-225-8890
L. Roybal/Allard 202 225-1766 202-225-0350

http://www.bcimpeach.com/

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The more $$ you make the more vacation you get
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Posted by: Herr Oberinspektor on Jul 15, 2007 6:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The more money you make in America, the more vacation you are entitled to. Doctors, CEO's, and the remainder of the upper class/professional class receives 6-12 weeks off a year as the norm. George Bush takes the equivalent of two European vacations a year.

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Americans are getting shafted
[Report this comment]
Posted by: georgiaorwell on Jul 12, 2007 1:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you, Marie, for writing this article. It's becoming a well known fact that the US government and private industry are, well, BIG TIGHTWADS! They spend billions of dollars in numerous countries but do not take care of their own people. If you work for the US Gov in Europe, your housing may be taken care of, but your pay is in US dollars - not indexed, like multi-national companies, to scale with the euro (or country in which you work). Multi-nationals will pay for expat housing and index their pay to pound sterling or euros, including benefits. Also, I know of many expats who willingly go to work in France or the NL, etc., just to have the holiday/vacation/paid leave, which is generous and totally surpasses the US's stingy 9 days. Also, the healthcare is so much better and cheaper, which is either non-existent for US workers or hugely expensive. Truth is - it ends up being a higher quality of life in Europe, but the US doesn't pay either its workers, home or abroad, a decent wage. Consider, also, the way they pay and treat US troops abroad and it's a crime!

The US government and corporations are destroying what used to be a proud nation of hard-working people - they simply do not appear to care about ever making improvements in people's lives. Imagine the millions of Americans who are trying to pay for their families while striving to pay off college loans - in many European countries, these loans are forgiven after a few years - automatically. Our Congress simply never passes anything in the people's interest and America has become a land for simply the rich and richer - everyone else can pretty much go to hell when you look at the way the American people are treated by the fatcat politicians and corporate fascists.

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» Well said! Posted by: redceres
» RE: Well said! Posted by: Trazom
» RE: CHRISTIAN AMERICA! Posted by: Cathyc

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More vacation time improves the economy
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Annarisse on Jul 12, 2007 3:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) When full-time workers take time off for any reason, part-time workers usually pick up most, or sometimes all, of the missed work. This gives people who are struggling a chance to get some full-time hours and experience in a situation that involves a definite time limit - and therefore reduced risk for employer and employee.
2) In France, the school system is set up to accommodate vacations at different points in the year, so families with young children can often take a week's holiday on the ski slopes and another week's holiday at the beach. Imagine the boost this gives to the tourist industry! Imagine the seasonal jobs that open up, especially for students!
3) Happy workers are better workers. So are healthy ones.

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americans get their reward after death
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Posted by: richholland on Jul 12, 2007 4:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes brave patriots work untill you drop dead and you will go to heaven...
What will happen as many young americans come to Europe, there is plenty of work to do.?????

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» Hey, why not.... Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: Hey, why not.... Posted by: willymack

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Outsourcing and Contracting
[Report this comment]
Posted by: kelt65 on Jul 12, 2007 4:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I work in IT, which seems to be under assault by the military industrial complex these days. It seems 50% of the IT jobs out there are with some company that makes bombs.

At any rate, these are the companies that get big contracts to do IT work, both for the government and large corporations. Whenever the contract switches hands, typically workers lose all their time put in towards more vacation. Most companies, for example, will increment you an extra week of vacation after five years. Not so for a contractor. Of course, they have policies which amount to the same thing, but if the contract switches hands, you're "reset." Even though I've essentially worked for the same people for the last five years, I've actually seen my vacation time get smaller, the contract keeps getting skimpier, it seems.

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» Basically, yes Posted by: ateo

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Every summer a similar article is posted...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: olderworker on Jul 12, 2007 4:33 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
..while it's true that Americans get less paid vacation time than workers in other countries, there is nothing to stop us from taking unpaid leave.
I know that not everyone can do this, but last year, when I changed jobs, I took a week off in-between the last day of the old job and start date of the new job, and took the bus up to Quebec City (I live in Boston, so this is fairly cheap & easy to do). I also took two unpaid weeks a couple of months after starting the new job, because had already made arrangements to go to France. And, NO, I'm not paid very much. I do budget travel with a capital "B", looking for the cheapest flights months ahead of the trip and renting a house from a friend who owns a house in France.
Again, it may not be possible for the average debt-laden American (I do have school loans but no credit card or car loan debt, and no mortgage) but I recommend taking as much vacation time as you can!!

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Oh Gee
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Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line on Jul 12, 2007 4:37 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe if people did careers they liked more they would not whine about not having time off. Time off is all fine and well and certainly appreciated, but if you work only forty hours a week, that really is not all that many hours. Thats vacation in and of itself. I cannot fathom the idea of working only 40 hours a week, and somehow I get everything(or almost everything) done that I need to...Plus get to take some quality time for myself. Time management is a good thing... Certainly I am not suggesting that people should not get vacations...

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» Look again.. Posted by: superdan
» RE: Look again.. Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» Inverse logic. Posted by: justaguy
» Fascist? Posted by: justaguy
» Yes, fascist. Posted by: mjabele
» After all this time... Posted by: mjabele
» Narcissistic hypocrite. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Oh Gee Posted by: cstrut
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Power in the Hands of Corporations
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Posted by: igoeja on Jul 12, 2007 4:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For the past several years I've been telling myself the following:

What's good for corporations is bad for people.

A bit oversimplified, but true.

There is no illusion as to what benefits from laws regarding sick leave, health care, etc. It is the corporations that hire people. The idea that what is good for the economy is good for people is rarely true, and although the goals can seem related, they are only positively related by the rate of productivity growth, rather than productivity itself.

Also, the wealth of middle class America comes at the expense of the wealthy - a historical analysis From Wealth and Democracy by Kevin Philips, although the 90's would seem to belie this truth - so the recent cuts in capital gains and corporate taxes, combined with lax IRS oversight and CEO greed, have created a new gilded-age economic divide. Part of the way the US can become better for the middle and lower classes is by empowering unions and taxing the wealthy, along with creating a universal health care system, reducing the military, and creating laws that reduce the control of corporations.

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Here is Australia's comparrison
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Posted by: Nedtheredhead on Jul 12, 2007 4:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.workingtoday.com.au/leave1.html

ANNUAL LEAVE
Most employees are entitled to four weeks paid annual leave after each 12 months work. Most employees are additionally entitled to 17.5% annual leave loading.
A casual employee's hourly rate includes an amount in lieu of paid annual leave.
LONG SERVICE LEAVE
Different provisions apply in each state and territory. Generally, long service leave accrues each year and after an employee reaches the qualifying period, he or she entitled to take paid leave.
SICK LEAVE
Most employees who are sick or injured and cannot work are entitled to be paid for a limited period. The employer must be informed as soon as possible (within 24 hours) if you are sick. In most cases, after using two days sick leave in any year the employee will be required to show proof of illness - a medical certificate (in some cases a Statutory Declaration may be accepted).
CARER'S LEAVE
An employee is entitled to use up to five days personal leave each year as carer’s leave to provide care and support for members of the employee's immediate family or household who are sick and require care and support.
BEREAVEMENT LEAVE
In most cases two days paid leave is available upon the death in Australia of an employee's immediate family member. This includes parent, child, grandparent, sibling, spouse and ex-spouse. In addition up to ten days unpaid leave may be granted. Paid leave is not available for more distant family members.

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» RE: Here is Australia's comparrison Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: Here is Australia's comparrison Posted by: animalleaderisgreat
» He is a neoconservative... Posted by: justaguy
» RE: He is a neoconservative... Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» Oh really? Posted by: justaguy
» What is your point? (nm) Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Here is Australia's comparrison Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: Third World Country..... Posted by: The Butcher
» RE: Third World Country..... Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» Is this an advertisement? Posted by: justaguy
» Blame Hawke as much as anyone. Posted by: justaguy
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» Nonsense. Posted by: justaguy
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» Oh FFS. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Oh FFS. Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» Yes. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Yes. Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» No, they didn't. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: No, they didn't. Posted by: Nedtheredhead

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Still time for a kiss in the AM
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Posted by: Conservasaurus on Jul 12, 2007 5:21 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Regardless of what country you live in, certan laws of economics prevail - one must work for a living - and it seems the French are realizing this even though American liberals want their SUV's and time off as well!

CNN.Com - PARIS, France (Reuters) -- Their new president wants to get the French to work harder to compete in global markets, but some traditions are likely to endure -- including long holidays, a kiss for colleagues in the morning, and a decent lunch. ............

Newly elected president Nicolas Sarkozy may not agree. With unemployment hovering above 8 percent and the economy barely growing 2 percent, at issue is whether France can keep up its lifestyle and be competitive.

"France is really going downhill," said Jeremy Salomon, a Frenchman working as a project manager at optical manufacturer GrandOptical in the southwest suburbs of Paris.

"If there is no change, France will be at the end of the queue in terms of productivity."

Conservative Sarkozy has promised to tackle this problem, with reforms aimed at restoring the values of hard work and rewarding people who "get up early". He wants to make the 35-hour work week a minimum, not maximum, requirement, allowing people to work more.

"Sarkozy wants to make it possible for people who work overtime to be paid for it," Salomon said. "I think he wants to try to change the French mentality in terms of work ethic."

While Americans focus on productivity, Salomon said the French waste time with meetings. He joked that another big time-drain was the tradition of greeting everyone in the morning by kissing them twice on cheek: "That's like 20 minutes gone by."

Salomon is not paid overtime, even though he usually works from 9 a.m. to 7 p.m., with an hour for lunch. Instead, he gets extra vacation -- which adds up to so many days off it is hard to find time to work.

"We get 48 days off, not including national holidays," he said. "So much vacation time makes it hectic to work."

Whining and dining

Despite free time and benefits that workers in other countries may envy, many in France are still discontented. One recent study found French workers the world's biggest whiners.

Yet according to Thomas Philippon, a New York University Stern School of Business professor, this is not because the French hate work: they value hard work highly.

He said a lack of internal promotion at companies and a lack of cooperation are some reasons why French workers are unhappy.

"Overall in France, internal promotion has a bad connotation. If someone gets promoted, we think he's a suck-up."

Another gripe is that raw recruits hired direct from elite institutions are put in charge of more experienced workers.

Isabelle Perrin, a spokeswoman for the CFDT, one of France's largest unions, said the French worker is unjustly maligned: what France needs is more people being put to productive use to help pay the pensions of an ageing population...............

Brina Goldfarb, an American who has been working in Paris for three and a half years, believes France's leader is spouting "free-market jargon" and ignoring reality.

Goldfarb, who works at a small architectural firm, said she is contracted to work a 39-hour week, but does about 50 hours. "I can't see my boss paying us for all the extra overtime." Like many in France, however, her overtime work is compensated by extra time off, not cash. Back home, she would be richer but the French lifestyle and a French fiance won her over: "I did think I would have had a more humane life than if I was working in New York."

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» RE: Still time for a kiss in the AM Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Equilibrium Posted by: CatDad
» RE: quilibrium Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: quilibrium Posted by: babs
» RE: quilibrium Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: quilibrium Posted by: Rolomax
» Productivity, schmoductivity. Posted by: justaguy

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In the army…
[Report this comment]
Posted by: White middleclass male on Jul 12, 2007 7:03 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
…we get 30 days of paid leave per year (Usually 2 week in the summer and 2 weeks around Christmas). Viva la Status Quo.

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» RE: In the army… Posted by: moflard
» It's 30 days period Posted by: ateo
» RE: In the army… Posted by: famouspipeliner

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Not only productivity
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Posted by: daro on Jul 12, 2007 7:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans can't take or don't take long holidays so only some 5% hold a passport. Indeed, apparently only 15% of Congress members hold a passport.
Is it any surprise therefore that Americans generally exhibit such a woeful ignorance of and even indifference to the rest of the world?
For some years I ran a Tourist Company in France and led groups of Americans on walking trips. One of the pleasures was to be able to present clients with new experiences and visit places that they would not otherwise have seen. It was a permanent surprise to discover how many of these intelligent and highly-paid people were so out of touch with things beyond their frontiers. And it was utterly depressing to encounter every now and again the executive who had to phone his office daily or receive reams of faxed data - the guy who couldn't let go!
You should get out more!

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» RE: Not only productivity Posted by: Nedtheredhead
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» RE: You're history is f***ed up. Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» You keep compromising then.. Posted by: justaguy
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» RE: Are you in the CEC? Posted by: Nedtheredhead

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Obesity, anti-depressants...
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Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Jul 12, 2007 7:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's no wonder we are the most obese and depressed/manic citizens on the planet...

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Canada and the EU sure are looking better every day...
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Posted by: arclight on Jul 12, 2007 8:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...and if I could get permanent residency and a work permit in a place like Germany, I surely would. Like, today.

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UNIONS ARE STILL THE ONLY ANSWER
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 12, 2007 8:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Long Hours, fear of losing the job, low pay, limited time off all contribute to many social ills. Homelife is almost extinct. Everybody is 'busy'. Children are shuffled around non-stop. Unnecessary shopping wastes so much time. When people can relax about how the bills are paid all that changes. It's all a form of distraction. Like it or not, it's about organizing. Labor unions are not a handout, but they afford people some protection and job security. Thanks, ANNA

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» Unions today- Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: Unions today-The four hour day.... Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Unions today-The four hour day.... Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Unions today- Posted by: EJ

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I remember a news story from years ago
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Posted by: sausage on Jul 12, 2007 8:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't remember which network's evening news program nor even the date, though suffice it to say it was sometime in the mid to late Seventies or early Eighties, when I saw a story about a union trying to organize a factory in some Southern state.

I don't even recall the union or industry but I clearly remember a statement from a wizened, woman worker, who opposed union organization:"We don't wanna union, we wanna work!"

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» Probably North Carolina Posted by: YogiBear

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I remember a news story from years ago
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Posted by: sausage on Jul 12, 2007 8:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't remember which network's evening news program nor even the date, though suffice it to say it was sometime in the mid to late Seventies or early Eighties, when I saw a story about a union trying to organize a factory in some Southern state.

I don't even recall the union or industry but I clearly remember a statement from a wizened, woman worker, who opposed union organization:"We don't wanna union, we wanna work!"

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Elementary, yes, elementary. Read on.
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Posted by: american on Jul 12, 2007 9:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This razzle, dazzle, watch-out-for-my-left-while-I-hit-you-with my-right gig is old hat: The Romans, the Soviets, the Nazi's all practiced it and Machiavelli, among others, codified it.

To gain easily - that is, without giving something of equal value in return - is to steal. To steal, one must lie. Both are bad. To be bad is to go against God, Nature.

Morality aside, the "received" economic, political, and policy "doctrines" that are blown from one corner of the media the other and back, like cottony tree seeds in a twister have us in a tailspin. Not one of these seeds sprouts a useful tree– Are they intended to? Wingtips kicking your downed body from the other side, New York and Washington institutes and foundations that have a million to one preference as media audience vs. you and me expulse all the more hot air from “above.”

From the same quadrant Bush and Cheney have us frantic putting out thousands of purposely-set fires of ineffable nonsense and prevaricated injustice. Part of the game plan is to keep us occupied so we can't maintain our democracy. We can't stretch our arms and minds with free time in order to create, mend, regroup and reflect. If we are on our heels, we cannot be on our toes. We embody less competition: fewer and fewer tycoons that'll ever walk out from the garage or basement; fewer people with less energy and spare time to challenge the injustices. The harder it is for us, the easier it is for them. And – Oh! – lately, has it been easy for them!

Democracy seeks inclusivity; capitalism seeks exclusivity. Democracy gains by what you know; capitalism gains by what you do not--this is why we are trained instead of educated. This is why we only have useless tripe from the “mainstream” media. These people, while appearing to come from different quarters – government, media, corporate and advocacy chairs – feigning contrast, are all essentially the same group of people: The Money People. We would all know this clearly if we were indeed educated. We would discern that all of the pillars of "conservatism" have fallen except the "principle" of buoying the wealthy. We would maybe reflect that floodgates of globalization that New York and Hollywood broke open sanctioned the global backwash that has flushed our culture and customs so that that have become in all ways distorted or extinguished.

We would see the disharmony not just between unfettered capitalism and democracy but between capitalism and the environment. See, industry can exact real costs on the environment, which impact people and all life. Industry does not want to account for these costs. They do not want to pay for them. (Life on earth be damned.) Things may not add up, and, God forbid, people will have to transfer to new, more local and self-reliant forms of getting what they need. That would mean no more revenue stream. Enter the by, -for, and -of industry government.

Look at the big picture. The kids funneling through the elite prep schools and universities while claiming eminent qualification have left this country’s government, industry, health system, culture, and environment in worse conditions to high degrees in nearly all ways.

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Elementary, yes, elementary. Read on.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: american on Jul 12, 2007 9:47 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This razzle, dazzle, watch-out-for-my-left-while-I-hit-you-with my-right gig is old hat: The Romans, the Soviets, the Nazi's all practiced it and Machiavelli, among others, codified it.

To gain easily - that is, without giving something of equal value in return - is to steal. To steal, one must lie. Both are bad. To be bad is to go against God, Nature.

Morality aside, the "received" economic, political, and policy "doctrines" that are blown from one corner of the media the other and back, like cottony tree seeds in a twister have us in a tailspin. Not one of these seeds sprouts a useful tree– Are they intended to? Wingtips kicking your downed body from the other side, New York and Washington institutes and foundations that have a million to one preference as media audience vs. you and me expulse all the more hot air from “above.”

From the same quadrant Bush and Cheney have us frantic putting out thousands of purposely-set fires of ineffable nonsense and prevaricated injustice. Part of the game plan is to keep us occupied so we can't maintain our democracy. We can't stretch our arms and minds with free time in order to create, mend, regroup and reflect. If we are on our heels, we cannot be on our toes. We embody less competition: fewer and fewer tycoons that'll ever walk out from the garage or basement; fewer people with less energy and spare time to challenge the injustices. The harder it is for us, the easier it is for them. And – Oh! – lately, has it been easy for them!

Democracy seeks inclusivity; capitalism seeks exclusivity. Democracy gains by what you know; capitalism gains by what you do not--this is why we are trained instead of educated. This is why we only have useless tripe from the “mainstream” media. These people, while appearing to come from different quarters – government, media, corporate and advocacy chairs – feigning contrast, are all essentially the same group of people: The Money People. We would all know this clearly if we were indeed educated. We would discern that all of the pillars of "conservatism" have fallen except the "principle" of buoying the wealthy. We would maybe reflect that floodgates of globalization that New York and Hollywood broke open sanctioned the global backwash that has flushed our culture and customs so that that have become in all ways distorted or extinguished.

We would see the disharmony not just between unfettered capitalism and democracy but between capitalism and the environment. See, industry can exact real costs on the environment, which impact people and all life. Industry does not want to account for these costs. They do not want to pay for them. (Life on earth be damned.) Things may not add up, and, God forbid, people will have to transfer to new, more local and self-reliant forms of getting what they need. That would mean no more revenue stream. Enter the by, -for, and -of industry government.

Look at the big picture. The kids funneling through the elite prep schools and universities while claiming eminent qualification have left this country’s government, industry, health system, culture, and environment in worse conditions to high degrees in nearly all ways.

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From someone who knows both sides...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: helgerry on Jul 12, 2007 11:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm an american citizen who moved to the Netherlands 7 years ago and never regretted it (in spite of the weather :)... When I go back to the States and tell my friends and relatives how many paid vacation days I have per year (35 !!! Yes you read that right! 35 ! plus sick days!), they're all stunned! By law everybody gets a vacation premium in May equal to your monthly salary. Every year I make it a point to visit a different european country.
I pay a small premium for a relatively good health care coverage (including dental). Life is somehow expensive but you get paid a decent salary to be able to maintain a good quality of life. Low crime rate in Amsterdam compared to Miami or New York where I used to live... I do not need a gun for my safety here!
My kids have a better future here without a doubt (that my wife is Dutch helps of course). The education system here is one the best in the world and it will not cost you $20.000-30.000/year for a university degree! Yes I pay more taxes compared to the US but frankly I don't mind because the government puts it to good use... Some narrow-minded americans call it a socialist system here but I pity their ignorance...
Yes the Dutch have their particular problems just like anywhere else (there is no paradise on Earth), but anybody with a decent job here has a better quality life than a comparable salary range worker in the States. Most Europeans are well-travelled and relatively aware of what's going on beyond their borders (they have the time and money for that!)
America has become a land for the rich and famous. The greedy corporations are destroying what was once a mighty proud country! But I'll still say "God Bless America" or what's left of it... Time for a revolution folks!!

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» yeah, but Posted by: grim ripper
» RE: yeah, but Posted by: janakiblum
» RE: "I'm an american citizen" therein lies the problem Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line

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silver lining
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Posted by: rah on Jul 12, 2007 12:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is there a silver lining to being overworked? unfortunately, the answer seems to be a resounding-NO. it seems humans are not only forced to keep up with one another, but also keep up with continually increasing technological capabilites. that is, some people have expectations that humans should improve themselves as fast as technology is improved.

couldn't unions help with these kind of situations? are we to socially disconnected to form new robust unions in commmercial spaces that have traditionally had no unions? are we to scared of employer consequences if we were to unionize?

i think these are all factors, but what stops most employees from gaining leverage is a lack of energy. thus, being overworked takes away the time and energy needed to defend ones rights adequately.

Juliet Schor wrote this book
The overworked American: the unexpected decline of leisure

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» RE: silver lining Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: silver lining Posted by: WitchyNy

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Law vs. policy
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Blue Heron on Jul 12, 2007 2:47 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We could have all the 'policies' we want, and still have no fair or reasonable situation for medical or leisure time off. Maybe I missed it, but I don't see any mention of the lack of actual laws being necessary for sick or vacation leave. That is the real difference between the US and the rest of the world when it comes down to it. People should be very concerned about the fact that since there are no laws regarding this, you could literally work yourself into an early grave. The absence of such legislation means that a company could literally have a 'policy' of absolutely no time off whatsoever, for any reason. So anyone who was desperate to make a living would just have to put up and shut up. But that has been the state of our 'democracy' for long time now. Silence is golden in corporate Murka. People seem to have very little leeway in your 'land of the free.' Freedom to get screwed over is all I'm seeing here.

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» RE: Law vs. policy Posted by: EJ

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Then move to Europe
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Posted by: slydad on Jul 12, 2007 4:41 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The last thing we need in this country is a bunch of ingrates.

I know there's more opportunity here than anywhere else in the world. That's why there are many more people coming into this country than leaving. If you think that Europe is better, then go there, but don't try to foist your socialist and communist ideas on us.

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» Tell us about you plans ateo- Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: Tell us about you plans ateo- Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» Phsyco Posted by: slydad
» LOL Posted by: IPF
» RE: Then move to Europe Posted by: Blue Heron
» Good Posted by: slydad
» The neocons Posted by: slydad
» RE: Good Posted by: Blue Heron
» RE: Good Posted by: richholland
» I rest my case! Posted by: slydad
» What case? Posted by: justaguy
» I got your epithet! Posted by: slydad
» Try this one too. Posted by: slydad
» Sorry. Wrong link. Posted by: slydad
» The Heritage Foundation? Posted by: justaguy
» RE: The Heritage Foundation? Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Then move to Europe Posted by: spanky
» RE: Then move to Europe Posted by: Blue Heron

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Get over it
[Report this comment]
Posted by: marid on Jul 12, 2007 6:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So you were in the military. Thanks for the time. Now get over it.

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ROFL, idiots
[Report this comment]
Posted by: paschn on Jul 12, 2007 7:26 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Until about the mid seventies, this nation had some pretty reasonable employee laws and regulations protecting them from the "Knee walking" politicians and their protein providers, the corporations. In most cases the swine are the descendants of the very Republican robber barons That quite literally used their whores in the legislature to murder our antecedents. Our people literally gave their lives to force basic laws onto the books to protect the workers' basic rights and their safety. In fact, by using "our boys" against us, those Republican fat cats in some cases burned our wives and children alive, shot us, beat us to death, framed us and imprisoned us. But because (they had BALLS), they knew who the real bad guys were and had the courage to fight them, we got those laws passed, made unions, ( which brought up ALL workers wages and rights), and had a very healthy working class. Sadly, too many of you pathetic assholes have lost the ability to realize that corporations are NOT YOUR FRIENDS!! They manipulate you through their "pocket politicians". They eliminate laws that protected workers and when eliminating a law would be so obvious that even you working class Republican supporters could see what they're up to, they have their "knee Walkers" cut funding for the agencies that monitor them,( recall all the miners killed in the last few years? one company had over 340 violations in I believe 2 years). Was there an outcry? were there any demonstrations? were any descendants of those original robber barons brought to justice?
Sheep,...too many sheep, too busy killing foreigners for "Old Glory" to see how your taking it in the keester from your own corporations and their high protein sucklings called leaders. I'm not quite sure you all DESERVE it, but you're sure as hell begging for it.

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same ol same ol
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Posted by: Joe on Jul 12, 2007 7:39 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
while i don't disagree with the lack of vacation time why does everything have to be government based. are liberals minds so limited that they see no other way to solve a problem. while the governments solution people sit and wait for the government to solve this problem how about pointing out other solutions that may be out there that people can either contribute to or take advantage of now. how about putting a continual spotlight on companies that do give ample vacation time. all articles like this do is leave people sitting around to get angry.

to sum it up...how about giving out information that actually matters.

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» RE: same ol same ol Posted by: lilgov

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Plutocracy!
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Posted by: vertical on Jul 12, 2007 8:03 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Democracy went to the wayside, and we are now a plutocracy, so that means what the rich want the rich get from both the Democrats and the Republicans: Universal health care, vacations and good pensions would cost the rich, and the rich rule, so the rest of us are shit out of luck.

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» RE: Plutocracy! Posted by: ShakaDog

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Brooklynbrenda
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Posted by: Brooklynbrenda on Jul 12, 2007 8:33 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
SOOOO what are we gonna do about it???
**************************************************
How many of you DIDNT vote in the last election? How many of you NEVER vote? When was the last time you sent an email to your state representative? How about a phone call to you senator? Theyre not doing thier jobs cause we let them get away with it. If you dont believe me then let me remind all about what happened to the Bush/Dick "Social (non) Security" plan.
***************************************************
To those who cant fathom why goverment must get involved, its simple...our european cousins understand that for profit big bu$ine$$ (PHARMA, INSURANCE for example) is NOT ethical just because it would be the MORAL thing to do...they must be GUIDED by law and not just for the wealthy and connected.

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» RE: Brooklynbrenda Posted by: ShakaDog

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No time off?
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Posted by: Logic's Edge on Jul 12, 2007 10:10 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans get lots of time off. It's just between jobs after being "laid off", downsized, made redundant, age-discriminated against, mergered out, outsourced... etc.

Wouldn't call it a holiday though. Aren't holidays supposed to give one rest and relaxation?

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Too Little Too Late
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Posted by: macdon1 on Jul 12, 2007 11:10 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A lot of people in the US cling to the belief that our society is somehow different and more moral than any other. They are blind to history and refuse to believe that greed, conspiracy, deception and corruption are as rampant in our government as they were in ancient Rome or Greece. For 25 years while they have been concerning themselves with their small circle of family and friends the neocons have been amassing their power and control. Some of us have spent all those years trying to get people to listen. Now it's too late.

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The richest country in the world
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Posted by: zyclop on Jul 12, 2007 11:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is not the only problem that only that upper 1% of the population and the corporations have all the money and that the working "peons" have nothing.

Another problem factor is not even perceived by the smallest percentage of Americans: this country is not really as rich as is made to believe.

If the USA would have to put up a working railway system, electrified, two or more tracks, major city connectors running every hour from Eastcoast to Westcoast; get rid of all utility poles - bury all cable underground; get in all cities with half a million citizens and upward a running multilayer public transport system; and have the workers work 37.5h a week with 30 days of paid vacation and higher hourly rates as they have now: the country would be bankrupt ~

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The richest country in the world
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Posted by: zyclop on Jul 12, 2007 11:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And oh, by the way: over in Europe they do not live in caves anymore, you can buy batteries and they even got streets I have been told.

Looks to me like the standard of living is not really that much lower than in our country.

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Australia? Just lucky bastards!!!!!
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Posted by: The Butcher on Jul 13, 2007 4:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Imagine a country the size of a continent. A population the size of Mexico City.
Imagine every mineral just under the surface.
Imagine vast agricultural lands, some the size of a small country eg Belgium.
Australians are the most hedonistic incult self satisfied and vain people in the world.
They have never had to work for a living!
Still structurally a colony. Vast primary production supported by an enormous public service. Compliance is an industry here with thousands of mindless public servants and cops watching every move.
This is a country where you get a parking fine on an empty street in a suburb on a Saturday nighrt.
Talk about fascism.
Australians like to portray themselves as larrikins. They are the most regulated people on earth behind Singapore.
The gilded cage nanny state.
Beautiful and so boring.
So if you share those qualities of being boorish, selfish and complascent. You must be ready to come to Australia.
Surely, there are better songs!!!!!!!
Ask Indegenous people how wonderful Australia is.I nvite you all to visit Wiluna in Western Australia. One of the richest areas in the world... Nickel, Copper, gold ........98% unemployment amongst locals who are drunk 24/7. Life expectancy? ..bout 35 .Yeh.. Great social progress there.
Great country really.

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» RE: You are funny Posted by: The Butcher
» RE: You are funny Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: You are funny Posted by: The Butcher
» Ned is deluded. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Ned is deluded. Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» Now you're rewriting history. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Now you're rewriting history. Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» No, that's it. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: No, that's it. Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: You are funny Posted by: Nedtheredhead

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you might want to venture out one day.
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Posted by: The Butcher on Jul 13, 2007 4:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You'd be surpised!
They fly planes!
They have Doctors.
They live longer than you.
They hold raving discussions amongst friends about social issues.
They care about social solidarity. They do not live in a Darwinist timewarp. Ask the Swedes, the Germans, the French and the Irish. Bypass Britain where the social fabric is tearing apart. The highest child poverty rate in Europe!
Appalling Gini Index. Comparable to the US'S.. Talk Guatemala for comparison here.

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Don't forget...
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Posted by: The Butcher on Jul 13, 2007 5:14 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a country where Unemployed people go on strike!
Where the Unions are still working within an obsolete inherited stalinist framework.
In France Rich is BAD. You must have exploited some defenceless worker to get there.
This is a very polarised country.
Yet has one of the best social safety net along with Scandinavian Countries
The French need a touch of Realism.
Their system was devised in th 60's when unemployment was at its lowest and massive low level employment from former colonies was fostered.
France is interesting as it is fighting the EU on Agricultural Subsidies ( Translate Family Farms to keep the beautiful Landscape and adjunct economically viable towns and villages) against Monsanto.
Watch France to upset the cart. Somewhere between Scandinavian ( Norway, Finland, Sweden's social cleverness) , German's workers understanding and ability to cooperate with their Masters against Britain's/US recklessness poker table.
Thatcherism a la Blair will not survive the next Property Bubble in Britain. Britain's economy is far less resilient than the US's obviously.
Question is : how far are US workers prepared to work for below living costs earnings? What is the Bottom line?
Will there be a smooth landing as foreigners invest and bring social protection American Employers had forgotten? ie Toyota?Airbus? Daimler?
Will they rescue the American Worker?
Is it possible in this Industrial Environment?
All the Us is doing now is printing more dollars. How long before a meltdown?
It is not leading global business, it is merely sustaining it artificially.
Best
Regards
Francois

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» RE: Don't forget... Posted by: moflard

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Francis
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Posted by: Francis on Jul 13, 2007 5:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In order to understand why things in America are the way they are, one need only think "corporatism", that great organizing, controlling, allegedly self redeeming, self-congratulating force which controls us all. Corporatism causes wars, ghastly disparities in wealth distribution, grinding poverty, illness and death to those it does not favor, it is anti-democratic, oligarchic, unjust, and generally anti-human. It's essential driving force is greed and it knows how to use it's power to steal power from people and use it against them. In America, it buys representatives in Washington and turns them against humans. Example, a medicare bill which disallows negotiation over the price of pharmaceuticals. Can one imagine any other explanation for so bizarre a law?

Political power is a zero sum game. If someone has too much, someone else has too little. Special interests, overwhelmingly corporate interests, with the notable exception of certain favored foreign countries, have taken power from the people, that is, they have undermined our vaunted democracy. All political battles fought are, fundamentally, between corporatism and democracy. Democracy is losing badly. The net effect? Americans are working themselves to death for peanuts and barely surviving in two income households. Standards of living are being decimated for most and are kingly for a few. We are headed back to the "gilded age" when super rich capitalists built castles in Newport and millions starved and rode the rails. What could possibly intercede to interfere with this freefall? Enough of this. Now get back to work, no time to dilly-dally.

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» CorporaTISM! Posted by: WitchyNy

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impeachment
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Posted by: gsaephanh on Jul 13, 2007 1:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Call in your vote TODAY for impeaching Bush and Cheney at this number: 202-225-0100

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s office is taking calls voting for Impeachment of Bush/Cheney at 202-225-0100. PLEASE CALL TODAY. At the toll free capitol switchboard #s below, you can also call your particular district’s congressional representative to insist that they support impeachment for Cheney. E.g., for Rep. Dennis Kucinich’s H Res 333 for Cheney; please say:

“In addition to supporting Kucinich’s bill H Res 333, I would also support a similar Impeachment Resolution against Bush, especially after the disgraceful Scooter Libby sentence “commuting” and the following issues: wiretapping, torture, numerous 9/11 intelligence misrepresentations, the continued occupation of Iraq, gross negligence during Hurrican Katrina, the Valerie Plame CIA leak, […list your other grounds…] ..”[see resolutions on tab #2 for other grounds for impeachment]).

LANIC requests that Americans call today…Not tomorrow or next week. Every call adds to the extraordinary grasswoots and nationwide movement’s pressures on House Speaker Pelosi to act now .before further innocent lives are lost in Iraq and elsewhere. Last week 28 Americans lost their lives. Over the July 4, 2007 weekend over 400 Iraqis lost their lives…

SEND MAIL TO HOUSE SPEAKER NANCY PELOSI: Attn: Nancy Pelosi, House Representative/Speaker of the House, 235 Cannon H.O.B., Washington, DC 20515 ; Pelosi’s Fax # 202 225-8259

Pelosi’s e-mail address :

Americanvoices@mail.house.gov

CC her at: sf.nancy@mail.house.gov

Please send her a pro-impeachment email and a specific call to endorse H Res 333. Note: On Saturdays/Sundays, Pelosi’s office has a comment line at which you can leave a voicemail. Your message will be transcribed and relayed to her. Please do encourage your family/friends to contact the same number. Refer them to www.bcimpeach.com for the actual telephone #s & contact info.

Find out who your Congressional representative is and call that person. For toll free numbers to your Congress rep: (800) 828 – 0498; (800) 459 – 1887; or (866) 340 – 9281. You will be connected once you name your congress person. The staff aid should take detailed notes and provided to the Congressional representative.

Final Note: Please say “I support Impeachment based on ____. I’d like to know where “[representative name]” stands on this issue.” Let’s strike while the Libby fury keeps the iron hot! Please call and Act Now!

PLEASE ALSO CONTACT THESE KEY CONGRESSIONAL REPS RE IMPEACHMENT:
Representative Capitol Phone Capitol Fax
Howard Berman 202-225-4695 202-225-3196
& 818-944-7200 818-994-1050

MAILING ADDRESS FOR BERMAN
Congressman Howard L. Berman
14546 Hamlin Street, Suite 202
Van Nuys, CA 91411

Henry Waxman 202-225-3976 202-225-4099
Loreta Sanchez 202 225-2965 202-225-5859
D. Watson 202 225-7084 202-225-2422
LindaSanchez 202 225-6676 202-226-1012
L. Solis 202 225-5464 202-225-5467
A. G. Eshoo 202 225-8104 202-225-8890
L. Roybal/Allard 202 225-1766 202-225-0350

http://www.bcimpeach.com/

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The more $$ you make the more vacation you get
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Posted by: Herr Oberinspektor on Jul 15, 2007 6:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The more money you make in America, the more vacation you are entitled to. Doctors, CEO's, and the remainder of the upper class/professional class receives 6-12 weeks off a year as the norm. George Bush takes the equivalent of two European vacations a year.

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