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Billionaires R Us
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This year is no different. But after almost three decades of incrementally widening disparities of wealth and income, it's worth noting that we've entered a new version of economic apartheid, American-style. Let's call it Inequality 2.0.
The United States is now the third most unequal industrialized society after Russia and Mexico. This is not a club we want to be part of. Russia is a recovering kleptocracy, with a post-Soviet oligarchy enriched by looting. And Mexico, despite joining the rich-nations club of the Organization for Economic and Community Development, has some of the most glaring poverty in the hemisphere.
In 2004, after three years of economic recovery, the U.S. Census reports that poverty continues to grow, while the real median income for full-time workers has declined. Since 2001, when the economy hit bottom, the ranks of our nation's poor have grown by 4 million, and the number of people without health insurance has swelled by 4.6 million to over 45 million.
Income inequality is now near all-time highs, with over 50 percent of 2004 income going to the top fifth of households, and the biggest gains going to the top 5 percent and 1 percent of households. The average CEO now takes home a paycheck 431 times that of their average worker.
At the pinnacle of U.S. wealth, 2004 saw a dramatic increase in the number of billionaires. According to Forbes Magazine, there are now 374 U.S. billionaires. The growth in billionaires took a dramatic leap since the early 1980s, when the average net worth of the individuals on the Forbes 400 list was $400 million. Today, the average net worth is $2.8 billion. Wal-Mart's Walton family now has 771,287 times more than the median U.S. household.
Does inequality matter? One problem is that concentrations of wealth and power pose a danger to our democratic system. The corruption of politics by big money might explain why for the last five years the President and Congress have been more interested in repealing the federal estate tax, paid only by multi-millionaires, than on reinforcing levees along the Gulf Coast.
Now, to pay for hurricane reconstruction and the war in Iraq, Congress is considering cuts in programs that help poor people, such as Medicaid and Food Stamps. They have not yet considered fairer ways of reducing the deficit by reversing special tax breaks for the rich, such as the recent cuts in capital gains and dividend taxes.
Inequality is non-partisan. The pace of inequality has grown steadily over three decades, under both Republican and Democratic administrations and Congresses. The Gini index, the global measure of inequality, grew as quickly under President Clinton as it has under President George W. Bush. Widening disparities in the U.S. are the result of three decades of bi-partisan public policies that have tilted the rules of the economy to the benefit of major corporations and large asset owners at the expense of people whose security comes from a paycheck.
Public policies in trade, taxes, wages and social spending can make a difference in mitigating national and global trends toward prolonged inequality. But our priorities are moving in the wrong direction.
For example, the failure to raise the minimum wage from its 1997 level of $5.15 an hour guarantees continued income stagnation for the working poor for years to come. The President and Congress's focus on tax cuts for the wealthy and their disinterest in government spending to expand equal opportunity sets the stage for Inequality Version 3.0.
We shouldn't tolerate this drift toward an economic apartheid society.
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Posted by: SiliconDreams on Oct 24, 2005 2:57 AM
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And inequality is positive - it is what keeps us motivated and keeps moving society further. We should not try to redistribute wealth - that would be equivalent to punishing achievement and rewarding incompetence.
The supposed negative effects of inequality are quite irrelevant. It's almost as if the authors expect that because we are an unequal society, WalMart will force Congress to abolish the Constitution.
Finally I wouldn't bash Russia... it illustrates exactly what happens when everyone starts from the same plank (and your traditional argument about nepotism and lack of social mobility vanishes). Some have brains and drive and end up at the top (Russia's wealthiest man was born homeless in Chukotka); the rest whine about inequality and the unfairness of it all.
Pathetic.
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Posted by: sausage on Oct 24, 2005 6:33 AM
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There is a story going round the hills of northwest Arkansas telling how Sam Walton forced top company managers into selling mansions they had built along the northern shores of Beaver Lake. Wal-Mart customers don't live in mansions, he said, so neither should members of the Wal-Mart "family."
Of course, bearly was Sam cold in the grave than members of his "family," both genetic and managerial, throw off that encyclical to begin a mansion building spree that lasts to this day.
Obvously, the lessons of history are not taught in business school.
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Posted by: packofwolves on Oct 24, 2005 6:38 AM
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Posted by: UKGray on Oct 24, 2005 7:21 AM
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Posted by: Dadster3 on Oct 24, 2005 9:15 AM
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Posted by: Mel_Brennan on Oct 24, 2005 11:31 AM
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Oh...let's not hear any "whining" about things like the law; all laws do is punish achievement and reward incompetence; none of those Waltons would have a dime if the law didn't protect them from far more competent achievers...
Do you see, fro mthe above, how your frame on reality and event is contingent upon everyone buying in to the current system. IOW, just begin your post with the unposted but assumed caviat, "Now, given the current legal "rules" of the system...," and we understand that to which you are beholden. for the rest of us, DOING that makes little sense; it's like joining a game of monopoly with 90% of the board bought up and a gun to your head, and being told "Now go win." Some, through sheer sets of circumstances (ones that relate not only to their own moxie and brio, but to external and other factors as well, always) will play the gme and achieve a measure of success. Most will try to play and lose, or get their heads blown off.
And a few will challenge the rules of the game. the article above is doing that. all you are doing, really, is standing tall and fast for the rules. celebrating the system. Which isn't really standing tall for anything important at all.
Because, again, if you fail to have just ONE day of buy-in to that system by the masses who suffer under it, the Waltons, and wanna-be owners of the system like yourself (as reflected in your post), would lose everything.
Due to risk-taking and "achievement."
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Posted by: mom'z the word on Oct 24, 2005 12:15 PM
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Capitalist have misused our Constitution almost since day one as a means to attaining their ill-gotten gains by arguing they have a ‘right’ to make as much money as they can by any means and methods available. Legislators make themselves ‘available’ and hence laws are written that guarantee concentration of wealth. One particularly blatant misuse of our constitution occurred when the courts allowed corporations, where the wealth concentrates, the same ‘rights’ as a real person. The fallacy here is of course, a corporation is a ‘fictitious’ person who can not be held responsible for any damages or liabilities. Key here is ‘fictitious.’ Fictitious means not real. You know a corporation is not a real person with real rights because they can not vote as a real person. When power is determined by how much money you have the system is capitalism. Not democracy. In a democracy people have a ‘right’ to vote. This is their power base. In a capitalist government money is the power base. So which is it? You can’t have it both ways.
Voting can change the face of this country and everything in it with one single mark on a piece of paper if this is a democracy. If this is capitalism, then whoever has the most money has the most power and rights are of no consequence.
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Posted by: TheBuffaloPartycom on Oct 24, 2005 12:25 PM
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HOW DID WE GET IN THIS MESS - U-ALL - ?
from the
( Re-Written) DECLARATION of INDEPENDENCE
by, RogerART.com
First Published in Feb, 2001
.
To PROVE that MILLIONAIRES, in disproportionate numbers to the US Population,
have Monopolized and bought the Government…
Compare the numbers below.
Approximately 286 million people make up the American Population.
280 MILLION PEOPLE have LESS THAN ONE MILLION DOLLARS.
6 MILLION PEOPLE have MORE THAN ONE MILLION DOLLARS.
Yet in the bush family government most are MULTIMILLIONAIRES.
Comparing these numbers is proof and confirms that
Millionaires Overwhelm, WE the PEOPLE, in the Executive, Judicial and Legislative branches of Government
And this is criminal.
BUSH is a MULTI-MILLIONAIRE and part of a MULTI-MILLION Dollar Family Political Business
CHENEY is a MULTI-MILLIONAIRE and OIL WAR PROFITEER with serious energy conflict of interests
MOST ALL of the bush CABINET and APPOINTEES are MULTI-MILLIONAIRES
6 of the 9 SUPREME COURT JUSTICES are MILLIONAIRES
MORE THAN 100 people in the HOUSE and SENATE are MILLIONAIRES
The Numbers above Confirm that there is a Conspiracy in America Today.
Treason has Occurred
and
the FIX is in…
.
Continued at
http://www.RogerART.com
Thank U, RogerART.com
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Posted by: TheBuffaloPartycom on Oct 24, 2005 12:36 PM
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SEE
( Economic Apartheid )
The Painting... + Others At...
http://www.rogerart.com/20_PATRIOT%20DEMOCRACY.htm
Thank U, RogerART.com
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Posted by: Tommy on Oct 24, 2005 12:53 PM
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It is impossible for anyone to have more than twice the median worth.
Thanks!
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Posted by: agent99 on Oct 24, 2005 1:58 PM
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Taxpayers pay billions of dollars per year to subsidize Wal-Mart, paying for health care, food and housing for WM employees. We also offer WM infrastructure assistance, free land, tax exemptions, and outright cash to build. How many local business owners get that kind of assistance? Can you say NONE?
The Waltons are in the Top 10 Richest people in the WORLD, yet WM employees can't afford food and shelter. You and I could become filthy rich too, if we had no morals. Here in Oregon, WM locked employees in the stores and forced them to work overtime FOR FREE (The Simpson's did an excellent episode on that; Matt Groening is from Portland). WM hired illegal aliens to clean stores at less than 2 bucks an hour, and fires anyone who even breathes the word "union". In fact, when a store did actually unionize, WM, the poor losers and cheap bastards that they are, immediately closed the store.
Yet does the media report any of these truths? Very rarely, except for on the wonderful Alternet. Our main paper, The Oregonian, prints all the fluff pieces that WM's PR dept. puts out, but rarely prints anything mentioning THE FACTS about WM, even though we currently have 4 organzied groups in the Portland area alone trying to save their communities from WM destruction. And if our media is too afraid to tell the truth, how can locals compete against against WM's 4 Million $ per day PR campaign? People need to know the whole picture to be able to make an educated choice on where to shop- or not.
Americans need to know the truth, and the truth is, America can't afford Wal-Mart.
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Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Oct 24, 2005 3:14 PM
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And the sad fact is that we seemed to have accepted inequality of income as a permanent constant in the U.S.A.
But not everyone will accept that because we have begun to counter this unfair distribution of wealth. It should never be concentrated in the hands of the wealthy few-monied "establishment', whatever term we use. It is kiling our society.
Inequality works well in some algebraic expressions, but translated in real life it means trouble. You know, X cannot equal zero.
The X's are the billionaires and the Zeroes, well they're you and me. We're the zeroes who aren't invited to presedential fund raisers, but in the end, you can't do math WITHOUT A ZERO!
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Posted by: hhartman on Oct 24, 2005 4:32 PM
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Thank you, I have been having this argument for a long time. I should also reply to the post above that talks about Socialism in reference to the former USSR. Communism and socialism are different. The "framing", to use a popular word on these posts, of being a liberal and being a socialist (or communist) was used by many right wingers to give us liberals a bad name.
Thus said, socialism is not a bad thing and when being viewed against our neo-liberal, free-market, capitalistic society, I would much prefer it. I have no problems with having wealthy people and poor people in our society, but more equal distribution would be nice. Also, if we could get rid of certain things like our current pharmaceutical and health care systems it would be wonderful.
I think the underlying issues the article suggests is the expenses at which the rich are getting richer, and how it is effecting our society...
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Posted by: fedupamerican on Oct 24, 2005 4:53 PM
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That alone should be impeachable! Evidently those compassionate conservatives are only compassionate for "their own kind/ilk"...
Read between the lines people--compassionate and conservative don't mix the way you were thinking when you voted those bastards in.
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Posted by: demidesigrrl on Oct 24, 2005 5:49 PM
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The word "obscenity" is more like it. And those who defend such obscenity under the guise of "freedom" or "entitlement" are, IMHO, utterly depraved and have lost all sense of common decency. These silicone bootlickers are on a par with those who blow tobacco smoke into infants' faces. End of rant.
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Posted by: independent1 on Oct 24, 2005 9:58 PM
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The original principles included such things as equality under the law while giving the "merchant class" their due. It was assumed that if you BENEFIT from living in the United States, you have a duty to support government functions, not "opt out" and go offshore for a tax free "world headquarters" and pay locals enough to keep them in helpless poverty.
The current neocons are apparently the Yuppie larvae of the Eighties matured thru pupation into insectile adulthood. But the current liberals appear to be trapped in their own version of True Believer mythology - wherein "war is forbidden" by some magical means and even the poorest among us can send all their children to Yale or Harvard, etc.
Dream on - but one must wake up and realize the real world situation.
The real world situation dictates that we drop the extremist rhetoric and schemes and all join in the Middle of the Road. Altruism has it's limits, and so does the Ubermensch philosopy of former seamstress, Ayn Rand.
The billionaire elite had better learn their history for it contains a lesson and vision which no sane person can ignore. That is, if you leave the "unworthy" behind, let them drop further and further into hopelessness, there WILL come a time when that mob you've created rises and destroys you.
90% of adult Americans, ARE guilty of complacency and gullibility. The big favor done for us by the Waltons and Cheneys is that they've finally become so bold as to tell us to our faces that we are doomed to serfdom under them.
I'm grateful for the offensive arrogance of those like 'silcon dreams' and Dick Cheney. Anger is a great motivator !! - How about them apples, silcon dreams?
They're mistaken - because they are famously "bad at math" --
2,800,000 millionaires are NOT going to buy off the other 278 million of US, nor can they stop us from reversing all they've done.
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Posted by: polyquats on Oct 25, 2005 12:43 AM
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hhhmmmm, money, hip-pocket - yes, maybe we have!
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Posted by: HKassel on Oct 25, 2005 8:04 AM
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I believe nothing will ever change unless the economists who endorse income inequality are discredited and unless the university can become a forum for discussion of political and economic issues. I have written a book title Economics as a Symptom of Sadism, Pathology in American Culture and Education and the Legitimizing Myths that Support it. I would not say anything I wrote in the book in any economics, sociology, political science, psychology, or anthropology class or in a law or business school, not if I wanted a degree. Millions of students are in universities and there is not forum. Instructors have absolute power and the power can be arbitrarily exercised. Universities are like something under a rock. The consequences of the absolute power of professors is tremendous but never thought about, never faced.
I am a clinical psychologist and college teacher.
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Posted by: stacilia on Oct 25, 2005 8:22 AM
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Posted by: dragonfly on Oct 25, 2005 11:39 AM
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the insanity will continue until humans wake up to the truth that
concentrations of wealth and power are the RESULT of any democratic system (POWER and RULE)... get rid of the focus on POWER and RULE and COMPETITION and focus on COOPERATION and CONSENSUS and SHARING and the inequality and insanity disappears...
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Posted by: montana freeman on Oct 25, 2005 12:10 PM
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Posted by: aedwards on Oct 25, 2005 1:27 PM
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Stop blaming everyone else for your problems and do something about them.
I think the real problem is that people are afraid that if they try to improve their lifestyle they'll fail and someone will laugh at them. Either that or their lazy. I've never met a person who was completely incapable of proforming some kind of job. even if it's devoting yourself to scientific research. I know that sounds cruel but its true.
As for the billionaires out there, good for them now they can give me a job so that I can start my climb to the top. People born into money that don't know how to handel it seem to lose it fast anyway through waste, the people who do know how to handel thier money seem to bring a lot of people up with them because they know that they can't run a large corporation on their own.
Another thought your all going to hate, Wal-mart employees the largest number of people in America. They can afford to do this by trying to keep there cost low as much as possibloe in as many places as possible. If they were to change there business practices to fit your standards how many people would have to become unemployed because of it?
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Posted by: MEL810 on Oct 25, 2005 8:02 PM
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Many working class people and people trying to get off welfare would take some lower wage jobs, but more and more are finding that those jobs are going to illegal aliens or being taken by the downsized middle class.
How many two-bit, no benefits jobs must one work to live?
How many people must work forced overtime for 'comp time' that is never actually given? How many people must work OT, despite illness and neglected families, because if they refused OT, they would be fired?
What if the stress is just too much and you have no insurance to get health care?
And how many of America's families are being sacrificed because harried over-worked parents have no time to spend with their kids?
How many families can afford a home, even with low interest mortgage loans and little-to-no interest down, when home costs are spiralling out of control thanks to the real estate speculation bubble?
How many working class people will becoem homeless because affordable rental housing is scarce. Everyday, more lower-end rental units are being demolished to make way for 'developments' or converted to condominiums with prices starting at $250K. Where will the former renters, who can't afford the condo prices, live?
I don't have an 'eat-the-rich' philiosophy. I'm not against prosperity and initiative. Responsible wealth that brings good jobs and elevates life conditions for many is desirable; robber baron wealth that enslaves people is not desirable. If many of the robber baron corporate class and their top stock holders were held to the same law as armed robbers, they would be in prison. Which is worse, some street thug who demands your wallet or some corporate thug who strips your insurance and life savings?
Lincoln freed the slaves in 1864, but apparently, the American master class never got the message. And many of today's Americans are so scared silly by threats of Muslim terrorists that they voted in the terrorists of the free world: Bush and the neo-cons and re-instituted a slavery based purely on economics.
Mary L in Richmond, VA
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» RE: That's assuming there are jobs...
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» RE: That's assuming there are jobs...
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» RE: That's assuming there are jobs...
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» RE: That's assuming there are jobs...
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» RE: That's assuming there are jobs...
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» RE: That's assuming there are jobs... Oh shit!! He is!!!
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» RE: That's assuming there are jobs...
Posted by: NDnative
» Dear Mary
Posted by: qrswave
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Posted by: doneman2000 on Oct 25, 2005 9:41 PM
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» RE: Pirating Yesterday and Today
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Posted by: johnnyatlanta on Oct 25, 2005 10:18 PM
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A central moral choice, then, is whether America should seek to reverse this trend. Those who view this society as a group of self-seeking individuals for whom government’s major purpose is to protect property and ensure freedom of contract would probably say “no.” Those who view America as a national community whose citizens have responsibilities to promote the well-being of one another would likely say “yes.” Is the well-being of American society the sum of individual goods, or is there a common good?
The wages and benefits of women and minorities continue to lag substantially behind those of white men in American society. And blacks and Latinos comprise a substantial portion of the nation’s poor. As overall inequality widens, inequities based on gender, race, and ethnicity are becoming more visible. The link between poverty and race was never more evident than it was weeks ago in the hurricane-ravaged tragedy of New Orleans and its surroundings. A future Supreme Court will almost certainly be faced with issues of equal protection for women and minorities in public safety, public health, employment, law enforcement, housing, and health care. How it balances the values of property and community will affect the moral cohesion of the nation.
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Posted by: johnnyatlanta on Oct 25, 2005 10:26 PM
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Global commerce in goods and services does make it easier for a dominant elite in Washington to pursue its preferred brand of laissez-faire and seek to remake America into a low-tax, low-regulation, low-wage nation. All of it seems to be happening by chance -- but, of course, specific policy choices are driving it.
Financial capital, abetted by laissez-faire rules, is becoming ever more footloose, while governments are rooted in particular places. This asymmetry enables global owners of capital to conduct bidding wars, playing off one country, state, or locale against others in an international race to the bottom. In this race, countries with higher taxes and more public services -- as well as higher wages and higher labor standards -- are put at a competitive disadvantage, all other things being equal. Global financial players can (or credibly threaten to) park their profits where taxes, wages, and regulatory requirements are lowest or nonexistent.
The result is a downward spiral: As tax bases shrink, the government cannot deliver high-quality services. The successful secede, demand even lower taxes, and the ranks of secessionists grow. The cycle is magnified by revenue cuts cascading from the federal government to states and local governments, further eroding tax bases, and imposing particularly large costs on poor communities with already small tax bases. The downward spiral occurs in too many locales, dispersed all over the nation, for the citizenry to see the pattern and to draw the connections. All the public knows is that government no longer seems to work. The current administration, rather than leaning against these trends, is serving as their enabler.
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» Excessive Human Inequality: Neither Deisrable Nor Inevitable
Posted by: johnnyatlanta
» Excessive Human Inequality: Neither Deisrable Nor Inevitable
Posted by: johnnyatlanta
» Excessive Human Inequality: Neither Deisrable Nor Inevitable
Posted by: johnnyatlanta
» Excessive Human Inequality: Neither Deisrable Nor Inevitable
Posted by: johnnyatlanta
» Your Posts are very informative, but I have a better proposal...
Posted by: qrswave
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Posted by: aedwards on Oct 26, 2005 4:58 AM
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I'm not rich, I'm not being supported by anything but what I earn and work for. I kind of take offense when a 3rd of anything I make goes to people I don't know that don't work to support themselves.
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» RE: job
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» RE: job; answer
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» RE: job; answer
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» RE: job; answer
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» RE: job
Posted by: Dinclusin
» You must mean moneylenders...
Posted by: qrswave
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Posted by: aedwards on Oct 26, 2005 5:41 AM
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When theres no more money in politics the corporate politicians will not become involved in politics.
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Posted by: aedwards on Oct 26, 2005 5:59 AM
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Power corrupts. Absolute power corupts absolutely. take as much power away from the government as possible and you won't have to worry about a corrupt government screwing up your life.
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» RE: Wealth redistrubution
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» RE: Wealth redistrubution
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Posted by: Andy Lee Parker on Oct 28, 2005 4:58 PM
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» RE: rumsfeld will profit from every treated case of bird flu
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Posted by: Andy Lee Parker on Oct 28, 2005 9:57 PM
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» Tax code
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» RE: corporate welfare is for rewarding tax collectors
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Posted by: macnietspingal on Oct 30, 2005 4:16 AM
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It took knowledge of the Periodic Table of Elements to create the hardware that allowed the well known for years algorithms of sorting/indexing/googling to be available to us. This didn't happen until the late 1980's. That's why you have blogs now.
Ask PARC (Xerox) all about this. PARC is responsible for both Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. So if you keep up with PARC you might end up being a millionaire at least?
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Posted by: joemer on Dec 19, 2005 8:39 PM
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Posted by: redjenny on Dec 22, 2005 9:40 AM
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The world is infinitely complex; questions of poverty, disadvantage, and other social ills are equally so. Rather than be so quick to judge, perhaps we should exhibit some understanding and work towards collective solutions.
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Posted by: SiliconDreams on Oct 24, 2005 2:57 AM
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And inequality is positive - it is what keeps us motivated and keeps moving society further. We should not try to redistribute wealth - that would be equivalent to punishing achievement and rewarding incompetence.
The supposed negative effects of inequality are quite irrelevant. It's almost as if the authors expect that because we are an unequal society, WalMart will force Congress to abolish the Constitution.
Finally I wouldn't bash Russia... it illustrates exactly what happens when everyone starts from the same plank (and your traditional argument about nepotism and lack of social mobility vanishes). Some have brains and drive and end up at the top (Russia's wealthiest man was born homeless in Chukotka); the rest whine about inequality and the unfairness of it all.
Pathetic.
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» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
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» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
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» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
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» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
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» Democracy or Corruption?
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» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
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» RE: BULLSHIT SPEWS FROM A SELF ANOINTED SUPERIOR BEING
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» RE: BULLSHIT SPEWS FROM A SELF ANOINTED SUPERIOR BEING
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» RE: BULLSHIT SPEWS FROM A SELF ANOINTED SUPERIOR BEING
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» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
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» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
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» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
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» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
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» Russia's Wealthiest Man
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» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
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» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
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» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
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» RE:native american
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» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
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» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
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» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
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» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
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» RE:OH JOY!!! Another prick without a clue!!!!
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» RE: OH JOY!!! Another prick without a clue!!!!
Posted by: SiliconDreams
» RE: OH JOY!!! Another prick without a clue!!!!
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: OH JOY!!! Another prick without a clue!!!!
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» RE: OH JOY!!! Another prick without a clue!!!!
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» RE: OH JOY!!! Another prick without a clue!!!! Get a heart!!
Posted by: stoney13
» RE: OH JOY!!! Another prick without a clue!!!!
Posted by: stoney13
» RE: OH JOY!!! Another prick without a clue!!!!
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» RE: OH JOY!!! Another prick without a clue!!!!
Posted by: oceanye
» RE: OH JOY!!! Another prick without a clue!!!!
Posted by: Artemis3
» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
Posted by: SiliconDreams
» Moral bankruptcy and bunk I
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» RE: Moral bankruptcy and bunk I
Posted by: SiliconDreams
» RE: Moral bankruptcy and bunk I
Posted by: gp
» Moral bankruptcy and bunk II
Posted by: gp
» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
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» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
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» You get what you deserve
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» RE: Russian equal footing?
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» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
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» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
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» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
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» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
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» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
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» RE: Inequality is an inevitable and desirable part of human sociological organization
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Posted by: sausage on Oct 24, 2005 6:33 AM
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There is a story going round the hills of northwest Arkansas telling how Sam Walton forced top company managers into selling mansions they had built along the northern shores of Beaver Lake. Wal-Mart customers don't live in mansions, he said, so neither should members of the Wal-Mart "family."
Of course, bearly was Sam cold in the grave than members of his "family," both genetic and managerial, throw off that encyclical to begin a mansion building spree that lasts to this day.
Obvously, the lessons of history are not taught in business school.
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Posted by: packofwolves on Oct 24, 2005 6:38 AM
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» RE: Silicon's dreaming
Posted by: atamamata
» RE: Silicon's dreaming, and dreaming BIG!!
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Posted by: UKGray on Oct 24, 2005 7:21 AM
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» RE: An overwhelming consensus - Silicon Dreaming is W-R-O-N-G
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» RE: An overwhelming consensus - Silicon Dreaming is W-R-O-N-G
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» RE: An overwhelming consensus - Silicon Dreaming is W-R-O-N-G
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Posted by: Dadster3 on Oct 24, 2005 9:15 AM
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» RE: Yes, Inequality Does Matter
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» RE: Yes, Inequality Does Matter
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» RE: Yes, Inequality Does Matter
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» Walmart pricing
Posted by: BlueTigress
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Posted by: Mel_Brennan on Oct 24, 2005 11:31 AM
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Oh...let's not hear any "whining" about things like the law; all laws do is punish achievement and reward incompetence; none of those Waltons would have a dime if the law didn't protect them from far more competent achievers...
Do you see, fro mthe above, how your frame on reality and event is contingent upon everyone buying in to the current system. IOW, just begin your post with the unposted but assumed caviat, "Now, given the current legal "rules" of the system...," and we understand that to which you are beholden. for the rest of us, DOING that makes little sense; it's like joining a game of monopoly with 90% of the board bought up and a gun to your head, and being told "Now go win." Some, through sheer sets of circumstances (ones that relate not only to their own moxie and brio, but to external and other factors as well, always) will play the gme and achieve a measure of success. Most will try to play and lose, or get their heads blown off.
And a few will challenge the rules of the game. the article above is doing that. all you are doing, really, is standing tall and fast for the rules. celebrating the system. Which isn't really standing tall for anything important at all.
Because, again, if you fail to have just ONE day of buy-in to that system by the masses who suffer under it, the Waltons, and wanna-be owners of the system like yourself (as reflected in your post), would lose everything.
Due to risk-taking and "achievement."
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Posted by: mom'z the word on Oct 24, 2005 12:15 PM
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Capitalist have misused our Constitution almost since day one as a means to attaining their ill-gotten gains by arguing they have a ‘right’ to make as much money as they can by any means and methods available. Legislators make themselves ‘available’ and hence laws are written that guarantee concentration of wealth. One particularly blatant misuse of our constitution occurred when the courts allowed corporations, where the wealth concentrates, the same ‘rights’ as a real person. The fallacy here is of course, a corporation is a ‘fictitious’ person who can not be held responsible for any damages or liabilities. Key here is ‘fictitious.’ Fictitious means not real. You know a corporation is not a real person with real rights because they can not vote as a real person. When power is determined by how much money you have the system is capitalism. Not democracy. In a democracy people have a ‘right’ to vote. This is their power base. In a capitalist government money is the power base. So which is it? You can’t have it both ways.
Voting can change the face of this country and everything in it with one single mark on a piece of paper if this is a democracy. If this is capitalism, then whoever has the most money has the most power and rights are of no consequence.
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» RE: There is no right way to do the wrong thing
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» RE: There is no right way to do the wrong thing
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» Are Capitalism and Interest Inextricably Intertwined?
Posted by: qrswave
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Posted by: TheBuffaloPartycom on Oct 24, 2005 12:25 PM
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HOW DID WE GET IN THIS MESS - U-ALL - ?
from the
( Re-Written) DECLARATION of INDEPENDENCE
by, RogerART.com
First Published in Feb, 2001
.
To PROVE that MILLIONAIRES, in disproportionate numbers to the US Population,
have Monopolized and bought the Government…
Compare the numbers below.
Approximately 286 million people make up the American Population.
280 MILLION PEOPLE have LESS THAN ONE MILLION DOLLARS.
6 MILLION PEOPLE have MORE THAN ONE MILLION DOLLARS.
Yet in the bush family government most are MULTIMILLIONAIRES.
Comparing these numbers is proof and confirms that
Millionaires Overwhelm, WE the PEOPLE, in the Executive, Judicial and Legislative branches of Government
And this is criminal.
BUSH is a MULTI-MILLIONAIRE and part of a MULTI-MILLION Dollar Family Political Business
CHENEY is a MULTI-MILLIONAIRE and OIL WAR PROFITEER with serious energy conflict of interests
MOST ALL of the bush CABINET and APPOINTEES are MULTI-MILLIONAIRES
6 of the 9 SUPREME COURT JUSTICES are MILLIONAIRES
MORE THAN 100 people in the HOUSE and SENATE are MILLIONAIRES
The Numbers above Confirm that there is a Conspiracy in America Today.
Treason has Occurred
and
the FIX is in…
.
Continued at
http://www.RogerART.com
Thank U, RogerART.com
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Posted by: TheBuffaloPartycom on Oct 24, 2005 12:36 PM
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SEE
( Economic Apartheid )
The Painting... + Others At...
http://www.rogerart.com/20_PATRIOT%20DEMOCRACY.htm
Thank U, RogerART.com
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Posted by: Tommy on Oct 24, 2005 12:53 PM
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It is impossible for anyone to have more than twice the median worth.
Thanks!
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» RE: Impossible
Posted by: GeoffW
» RE: Impossible
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» Not at all impossible
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» RE: Impossible
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» RE: Impossible
Posted by: Tommy
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Posted by: agent99 on Oct 24, 2005 1:58 PM
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Taxpayers pay billions of dollars per year to subsidize Wal-Mart, paying for health care, food and housing for WM employees. We also offer WM infrastructure assistance, free land, tax exemptions, and outright cash to build. How many local business owners get that kind of assistance? Can you say NONE?
The Waltons are in the Top 10 Richest people in the WORLD, yet WM employees can't afford food and shelter. You and I could become filthy rich too, if we had no morals. Here in Oregon, WM locked employees in the stores and forced them to work overtime FOR FREE (The Simpson's did an excellent episode on that; Matt Groening is from Portland). WM hired illegal aliens to clean stores at less than 2 bucks an hour, and fires anyone who even breathes the word "union". In fact, when a store did actually unionize, WM, the poor losers and cheap bastards that they are, immediately closed the store.
Yet does the media report any of these truths? Very rarely, except for on the wonderful Alternet. Our main paper, The Oregonian, prints all the fluff pieces that WM's PR dept. puts out, but rarely prints anything mentioning THE FACTS about WM, even though we currently have 4 organzied groups in the Portland area alone trying to save their communities from WM destruction. And if our media is too afraid to tell the truth, how can locals compete against against WM's 4 Million $ per day PR campaign? People need to know the whole picture to be able to make an educated choice on where to shop- or not.
Americans need to know the truth, and the truth is, America can't afford Wal-Mart.
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» RE: The Evil Smilie Face
Posted by: wearesilhouettes
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Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Oct 24, 2005 3:14 PM
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And the sad fact is that we seemed to have accepted inequality of income as a permanent constant in the U.S.A.
But not everyone will accept that because we have begun to counter this unfair distribution of wealth. It should never be concentrated in the hands of the wealthy few-monied "establishment', whatever term we use. It is kiling our society.
Inequality works well in some algebraic expressions, but translated in real life it means trouble. You know, X cannot equal zero.
The X's are the billionaires and the Zeroes, well they're you and me. We're the zeroes who aren't invited to presedential fund raisers, but in the end, you can't do math WITHOUT A ZERO!
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Posted by: hhartman on Oct 24, 2005 4:32 PM
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Thank you, I have been having this argument for a long time. I should also reply to the post above that talks about Socialism in reference to the former USSR. Communism and socialism are different. The "framing", to use a popular word on these posts, of being a liberal and being a socialist (or communist) was used by many right wingers to give us liberals a bad name.
Thus said, socialism is not a bad thing and when being viewed against our neo-liberal, free-market, capitalistic society, I would much prefer it. I have no problems with having wealthy people and poor people in our society, but more equal distribution would be nice. Also, if we could get rid of certain things like our current pharmaceutical and health care systems it would be wonderful.
I think the underlying issues the article suggests is the expenses at which the rich are getting richer, and how it is effecting our society...
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Posted by: fedupamerican on Oct 24, 2005 4:53 PM
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That alone should be impeachable! Evidently those compassionate conservatives are only compassionate for "their own kind/ilk"...
Read between the lines people--compassionate and conservative don't mix the way you were thinking when you voted those bastards in.
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Posted by: demidesigrrl on Oct 24, 2005 5:49 PM
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The word "obscenity" is more like it. And those who defend such obscenity under the guise of "freedom" or "entitlement" are, IMHO, utterly depraved and have lost all sense of common decency. These silicone bootlickers are on a par with those who blow tobacco smoke into infants' faces. End of rant.
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Posted by: independent1 on Oct 24, 2005 9:58 PM
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The original principles included such things as equality under the law while giving the "merchant class" their due. It was assumed that if you BENEFIT from living in the United States, you have a duty to support government functions, not "opt out" and go offshore for a tax free "world headquarters" and pay locals enough to keep them in helpless poverty.
The current neocons are apparently the Yuppie larvae of the Eighties matured thru pupation into insectile adulthood. But the current liberals appear to be trapped in their own version of True Believer mythology - wherein "war is forbidden" by some magical means and even the poorest among us can send all their children to Yale or Harvard, etc.
Dream on - but one must wake up and realize the real world situation.
The real world situation dictates that we drop the extremist rhetoric and schemes and all join in the Middle of the Road. Altruism has it's limits, and so does the Ubermensch philosopy of former seamstress, Ayn Rand.
The billionaire elite had better learn their history for it contains a lesson and vision which no sane person can ignore. That is, if you leave the "unworthy" behind, let them drop further and further into hopelessness, there WILL come a time when that mob you've created rises and destroys you.
90% of adult Americans, ARE guilty of complacency and gullibility. The big favor done for us by the Waltons and Cheneys is that they've finally become so bold as to tell us to our faces that we are doomed to serfdom under them.
I'm grateful for the offensive arrogance of those like 'silcon dreams' and Dick Cheney. Anger is a great motivator !! - How about them apples, silcon dreams?
They're mistaken - because they are famously "bad at math" --
2,800,000 millionaires are NOT going to buy off the other 278 million of US, nor can they stop us from reversing all they've done.
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» RE: Unity is the answer
Posted by: Doubtom
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Posted by: polyquats on Oct 25, 2005 12:43 AM
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hhhmmmm, money, hip-pocket - yes, maybe we have!
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» RE: WOW, fantastic, finally
Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: WOW, fantastic, finally
Posted by: UKGray
» RE: WOW, fantastic, finally
Posted by: drdigi420
» RE:montana freeman
Posted by: montana freeman
» RE: montana freeman
Posted by: Doubtom
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Posted by: HKassel on Oct 25, 2005 8:04 AM
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I believe nothing will ever change unless the economists who endorse income inequality are discredited and unless the university can become a forum for discussion of political and economic issues. I have written a book title Economics as a Symptom of Sadism, Pathology in American Culture and Education and the Legitimizing Myths that Support it. I would not say anything I wrote in the book in any economics, sociology, political science, psychology, or anthropology class or in a law or business school, not if I wanted a degree. Millions of students are in universities and there is not forum. Instructors have absolute power and the power can be arbitrarily exercised. Universities are like something under a rock. The consequences of the absolute power of professors is tremendous but never thought about, never faced.
I am a clinical psychologist and college teacher.
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» RE: Professor
Posted by: Doubtom
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Posted by: stacilia on Oct 25, 2005 8:22 AM
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Posted by: dragonfly on Oct 25, 2005 11:39 AM
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the insanity will continue until humans wake up to the truth that
concentrations of wealth and power are the RESULT of any democratic system (POWER and RULE)... get rid of the focus on POWER and RULE and COMPETITION and focus on COOPERATION and CONSENSUS and SHARING and the inequality and insanity disappears...
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Posted by: montana freeman on Oct 25, 2005 12:10 PM
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» RE: I like my meat a little less gamey, But here's how you do it!!
Posted by: stoney13
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Posted by: aedwards on Oct 25, 2005 1:27 PM
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Stop blaming everyone else for your problems and do something about them.
I think the real problem is that people are afraid that if they try to improve their lifestyle they'll fail and someone will laugh at them. Either that or their lazy. I've never met a person who was completely incapable of proforming some kind of job. even if it's devoting yourself to scientific research. I know that sounds cruel but its true.
As for the billionaires out there, good for them now they can give me a job so that I can start my climb to the top. People born into money that don't know how to handel it seem to lose it fast anyway through waste, the people who do know how to handel thier money seem to bring a lot of people up with them because they know that they can't run a large corporation on their own.
Another thought your all going to hate, Wal-mart employees the largest number of people in America. They can afford to do this by trying to keep there cost low as much as possibloe in as many places as possible. If they were to change there business practices to fit your standards how many people would have to become unemployed because of it?
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» Why don't you stop your pro-rightwing bullshit complaining first?
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Why don't you stop your pro-rightwing bullshit complaining first?
Posted by: aedwards
» RE: stop complaining
Posted by: MEL810
» RE: Johnnyboy!!! Is that you again!!!!!
Posted by: stoney13
» RE: Johnnyboy!!! Is that you again!!!!!FOR STONEY
Posted by: cyclone
» RE: Johnnyboy!!! Is that you again!!!!!FOR STONEY. FOR CYCLONE
Posted by: stoney13
» RE: Johnnyboy!!! Is that you again!!!!!FOR STONEY. FOR CYCLONE
Posted by: aedwards
» RE: Johnnyboy!!! Is that you again!!!!!FOR STONEY. FOR CYCLONE
Posted by: stoney13
» RE: Johnnyboy!!! Is that you again!!!!!FOR STONEY. FOR CYCLONE
Posted by: aedwards
» RE: Johnnyboy!!! Is that you again!!!!!FOR STONEY. FOR CYCLONE
Posted by: stoney13
» RE: stop complaining
Posted by: redjenny
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Posted by: MEL810 on Oct 25, 2005 8:02 PM
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Many working class people and people trying to get off welfare would take some lower wage jobs, but more and more are finding that those jobs are going to illegal aliens or being taken by the downsized middle class.
How many two-bit, no benefits jobs must one work to live?
How many people must work forced overtime for 'comp time' that is never actually given? How many people must work OT, despite illness and neglected families, because if they refused OT, they would be fired?
What if the stress is just too much and you have no insurance to get health care?
And how many of America's families are being sacrificed because harried over-worked parents have no time to spend with their kids?
How many families can afford a home, even with low interest mortgage loans and little-to-no interest down, when home costs are spiralling out of control thanks to the real estate speculation bubble?
How many working class people will becoem homeless because affordable rental housing is scarce. Everyday, more lower-end rental units are being demolished to make way for 'developments' or converted to condominiums with prices starting at $250K. Where will the former renters, who can't afford the condo prices, live?
I don't have an 'eat-the-rich' philiosophy. I'm not against prosperity and initiative. Responsible wealth that brings good jobs and elevates life conditions for many is desirable; robber baron wealth that enslaves people is not desirable. If many of the robber baron corporate class and their top stock holders were held to the same law as armed robbers, they would be in prison. Which is worse, some street thug who demands your wallet or some corporate thug who strips your insurance and life savings?
Lincoln freed the slaves in 1864, but apparently, the American master class never got the message. And many of today's Americans are so scared silly by threats of Muslim terrorists that they voted in the terrorists of the free world: Bush and the neo-cons and re-instituted a slavery based purely on economics.
Mary L in Richmond, VA
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» RE: That's assuming there are jobs...
Posted by: aedwards
» RE: That's assuming there are jobs...
Posted by: stoney13
» RE: That's assuming there are jobs...
Posted by: aedwards
» RE: That's assuming there are jobs...
Posted by: stoney13
» RE: That's assuming there are jobs...
Posted by: aedwards
» RE: That's assuming there are jobs... Oh shit!! He is!!!
Posted by: stoney13
» RE: That's assuming there are jobs...
Posted by: NDnative
» Dear Mary
Posted by: qrswave
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Posted by: doneman2000 on Oct 25, 2005 9:41 PM
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» RE: Pirating Yesterday and Today
Posted by: agent99
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Posted by: johnnyatlanta on Oct 25, 2005 10:18 PM
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A central moral choice, then, is whether America should seek to reverse this trend. Those who view this society as a group of self-seeking individuals for whom government’s major purpose is to protect property and ensure freedom of contract would probably say “no.” Those who view America as a national community whose citizens have responsibilities to promote the well-being of one another would likely say “yes.” Is the well-being of American society the sum of individual goods, or is there a common good?
The wages and benefits of women and minorities continue to lag substantially behind those of white men in American society. And blacks and Latinos comprise a substantial portion of the nation’s poor. As overall inequality widens, inequities based on gender, race, and ethnicity are becoming more visible. The link between poverty and race was never more evident than it was weeks ago in the hurricane-ravaged tragedy of New Orleans and its surroundings. A future Supreme Court will almost certainly be faced with issues of equal protection for women and minorities in public safety, public health, employment, law enforcement, housing, and health care. How it balances the values of property and community will affect the moral cohesion of the nation.
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Posted by: johnnyatlanta on Oct 25, 2005 10:26 PM
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Global commerce in goods and services does make it easier for a dominant elite in Washington to pursue its preferred brand of laissez-faire and seek to remake America into a low-tax, low-regulation, low-wage nation. All of it seems to be happening by chance -- but, of course, specific policy choices are driving it.
Financial capital, abetted by laissez-faire rules, is becoming ever more footloose, while governments are rooted in particular places. This asymmetry enables global owners of capital to conduct bidding wars, playing off one country, state, or locale against others in an international race to the bottom. In this race, countries with higher taxes and more public services -- as well as higher wages and higher labor standards -- are put at a competitive disadvantage, all other things being equal. Global financial players can (or credibly threaten to) park their profits where taxes, wages, and regulatory requirements are lowest or nonexistent.
The result is a downward spiral: As tax bases shrink, the government cannot deliver high-quality services. The successful secede, demand even lower taxes, and the ranks of secessionists grow. The cycle is magnified by revenue cuts cascading from the federal government to states and local governments, further eroding tax bases, and imposing particularly large costs on poor communities with already small tax bases. The downward spiral occurs in too many locales, dispersed all over the nation, for the citizenry to see the pattern and to draw the connections. All the public knows is that government no longer seems to work. The current administration, rather than leaning against these trends, is serving as their enabler.
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» Excessive Human Inequality: Neither Deisrable Nor Inevitable
Posted by: johnnyatlanta
» Excessive Human Inequality: Neither Deisrable Nor Inevitable
Posted by: johnnyatlanta
» Excessive Human Inequality: Neither Deisrable Nor Inevitable
Posted by: johnnyatlanta
» Excessive Human Inequality: Neither Deisrable Nor Inevitable
Posted by: johnnyatlanta
» Your Posts are very informative, but I have a better proposal...
Posted by: qrswave
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Posted by: aedwards on Oct 26, 2005 4:58 AM
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I'm not rich, I'm not being supported by anything but what I earn and work for. I kind of take offense when a 3rd of anything I make goes to people I don't know that don't work to support themselves.
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» RE: job
Posted by: churchofone
» RE: job; answer
Posted by: aedwards
» RE: job; answer
Posted by: crusty
» RE: job; answer
Posted by: crusty
» RE: job
Posted by: Dinclusin
» You must mean moneylenders...
Posted by: qrswave
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Posted by: aedwards on Oct 26, 2005 5:41 AM
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When theres no more money in politics the corporate politicians will not become involved in politics.
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Posted by: aedwards on Oct 26, 2005 5:59 AM
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Power corrupts. Absolute power corupts absolutely. take as much power away from the government as possible and you won't have to worry about a corrupt government screwing up your life.
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» RE: Wealth redistrubution
Posted by: crusty
» RE: Wealth redistrubution
Posted by: Dinclusin
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Posted by: Andy Lee Parker on Oct 28, 2005 4:58 PM
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» RE: rumsfeld will profit from every treated case of bird flu
Posted by: aedwards
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Posted by: Andy Lee Parker on Oct 28, 2005 9:57 PM
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» Tax code
Posted by: aedwards
» RE: corporate welfare is for rewarding tax collectors
Posted by: qrswave
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Posted by: macnietspingal on Oct 30, 2005 4:16 AM
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It took knowledge of the Periodic Table of Elements to create the hardware that allowed the well known for years algorithms of sorting/indexing/googling to be available to us. This didn't happen until the late 1980's. That's why you have blogs now.
Ask PARC (Xerox) all about this. PARC is responsible for both Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. So if you keep up with PARC you might end up being a millionaire at least?
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Posted by: joemer on Dec 19, 2005 8:39 PM
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Posted by: redjenny on Dec 22, 2005 9:40 AM
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The world is infinitely complex; questions of poverty, disadvantage, and other social ills are equally so. Rather than be so quick to judge, perhaps we should exhibit some understanding and work towards collective solutions.
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Tax the Corporations and the Rich or Take Draconian Cuts -- the Decision Is Ours
Fury at Wall St. Banks Fuels Public Action for Move Your Money Campaign
Why Congress Wants You to Shun Your Local Bookstore and Shop at Amazon Instead




