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It's Not Hard to Be a Job-Slashing, Pension-Grabbing CEO -- If You're a Sociopath
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The Wall Street Journal reported last week that "Executives and other highly compensated employees now receive more than one-third of all pay in the US... Highly paid employees received nearly $2.1 trillion of the $6.4 trillion in total US pay in 2007, the latest figures available."
One of the questions often asked when the subject of CEO pay comes up is, "What could a person such as William McGuire or Lee Raymond (the former CEOs of UnitedHealth and ExxonMobil, respectively) possibly do to justify a $1.7 billion paycheck or a $400 million retirement bonus?"
It's an interesting question. If there is a "free market" of labor for CEOs, then you'd think there would be a lot of competition for the jobs. And a lot of people competing for the positions would drive down the pay. All UnitedHealth's stockholders would have to do to avoid paying more than $1 billion to McGuire is find somebody to do the same CEO job for half a billion. And all they'd have to do to save even more is find somebody to do the job for a mere $100 million. Or maybe even somebody who'd work the necessary sixty-hour weeks for only $1 million.
So why is executive pay so high?
I've examined this with both my psychotherapist hat on and my amateur economist hat on, and only one rational answer presents itself: CEOs in America make as much money as they do because there really is a shortage of people with their skill set. And it's such a serious shortage that some companies have to pay as much as $1 million a day to have somebody successfully do the job.
But what part of being a CEO could be so difficult -- so impossible for mere mortals -- that it would mean that there are only a few hundred individuals in the United States capable of performing it?
In my humble opinion, it's the sociopath part.
CEOs of community-based businesses are typically responsive to their communities and decent people. But the CEOs of most of the world's largest corporations daily make decisions that destroy the lives of many other human beings.
Only about 1 to 3 percent of us are sociopaths -- people who don't have normal human feelings and can easily go to sleep at night after having done horrific things. And of that 1 percent of sociopaths, there's probably only a fraction of a percent with a college education. And of that tiny fraction, there's an even tinier fraction that understands how business works, particularly within any specific industry.
Thus there is such a shortage of people who can run modern monopolistic, destructive corporations that stockholders have to pay millions to get them to work. And being sociopaths, they gladly take the money without any thought to its social consequences.
Today's modern transnational corporate CEOs -- who live in a private-jet-and-limousine world entirely apart from the rest of us -- are remnants from the times of kings, queens, and lords. They reflect the dysfunctional cultural (and Calvinist/Darwinian) belief that wealth is proof of goodness, and that that goodness then justifies taking more of the wealth.
Democracy in the workplace is known as a union. The most democratic workplaces are the least exploitative, because labor has a power to balance capital and management. And looking around the world, we can clearly see that those cultures that most embrace the largest number of their people in an egalitarian and democratic way (in and out of the workplace) are the ones that have the highest quality of life. Those that are the most despotic, from the workplace to the government, are those with the poorest quality of life.
Over time, balance and democratic oversight will always produce the best results. An "unregulated" marketplace is like an "unregulated" football game -- chaos. And chaos is a state perfectly exploited by sociopaths, be they serial killers, warlords, or CEOs.
By changing the rules of the game of business so that sociopathic business behavior is no longer rewarded (and, indeed, is punished -- as Teddy Roosevelt famously did as the "trustbuster" and FDR did when he threatened to send "war profiteers" to jail), we can create a less dysfunctional and more egalitarian society. And that's an important first step back from the thresholds to environmental and economic disaster we're now facing.
This article is largely excerpted from Thom Hartmann's new book "Threshold: The Crisis of Western Culture."
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Posted by: RvLCoG on Jul 29, 2009 1:18 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: What the World Needs
Posted by: progressive-life
» Meaning "God is dead, long live the CEOs"?
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Meaning "God is dead, long live the CEOs"?
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: What the World Needs is less of you
Posted by: wagnerrocks@gmail.com
» You obviously didn't read what he said
Posted by: truthlover
» RE: What the World Needs
Posted by: mkdelta69
» RE: What the World Needs
Posted by: aichbe
» RE: What the World Needs is fewer sociopaths in civil service too
Posted by: greentime
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Posted by: lefty010 on Jul 29, 2009 1:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just FYI, it was not Darwin who proposed these ideas. Darwin's focus was on biological processes. It was actually economist Herbert Spencer who coined the term "survival of the fittest" when he read about Darwin's theory of natural selection. Spencer then applied this idea to his own economic theories thus creating the wholly imaginary idea of an economic equivalent of the biological process of natural selection.
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» RE: Just for Clarification
Posted by: bitter_robot
» Good point.
Posted by: Parcival01
» RE: Good point.
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: Just for Clarification
Posted by: wbblack
» RE: Just for Clarification
Posted by: mv_mc
» Survival of the fittest is a rationalization for greed.
Posted by: zigy
» RE: Survival of the fittest
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Survival of the fittest
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» Beat Me To It
Posted by: Eric.Arthur.Blair
» RE: Just for Clarification
Posted by: truthlover
» RE: Just for Clarification
Posted by: mv_mc
» That's not why they reject the theory of evolution
Posted by: truthlover
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Posted by: Lily H. on Jul 29, 2009 1:51 AM
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Goes along with the phrase, "If you had any brains, you'd be dangerous".
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» RE: You're Only Half-Right...
Posted by: Xynyx
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Posted by: Perry Logan on Jul 29, 2009 3:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Clinton haters--who define ad hominem politics today--are fond of saying the Clintons are sociopaths--suggesting an alarmingly low opinion of American voters, among other things. So caution is advised in psychoanalyzing public figures whose policies we disapprove.
But I agree that the Republican Revolution was the elevation of sociopathy to a social ideal.
It got started with the dingbat President, Ronald Reagan. All of a sudden, the worst corporate behavior was upheld as the ideal of humankind. It turned out businessmen were the superrace and greed was good.
Money would trickle down (after eons, one presumes); business was efficient and government was inefficient; business methods should be applied to all areas of human activity. Life was an Ayn Rand novel.
Keep in mind, IQs in America had sunk to an all-time low at this point.
So, as we contemplate our situation, we should keep in mind America just spent the last 30 years rigging the institutions of business, government, the media, and education to put sociopathy firmly in the driver's seat, forever.
The sociopathy machine that is the U.S.A. has tremendous momentum and resources. We see this being played out in the disheartening health care debate, not to mention the fact that our new President is some kinda neocon. Even if our luck improves, it's going to take some time to turn this juggernaut of greed around.
Symbolic YouTube video--Holes in History
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» RE: The elevation of sociopathy to a social ideal
Posted by: WingedGryphon
» RE: The elevation of sociopathy to a social ideal
Posted by: Jbuuty
» As usual Mr. Logan...
Posted by: zigy
» RE: The elevation of sociopathy to a social ideal
Posted by: winchelenator
» RE: oh...
Posted by: Cybershaman
» Definitions of sociopathy and psychopathy
Posted by: truthlover
» RE: The elevation of sociopathy to a social ideal
Posted by: zonmoy
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jul 29, 2009 3:31 AM
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It seems to me that the answer is more cultural, sociological, and political than economic or statistical. We simply let them get away with it. We place a subjective value on them because we think we need to give them incentives to perform, or that we need to reward them simply for being CEOs, even though they often make more money by screwing up or retiring than doing anything productive.
CEOs are more like tulips and pet rocks than surgeons, engineers, and others whose pay is more or less justified by their skill set and education. As humans, and especially as Americans, we tend to be a hierarchical breed that has some collective psychological need to deify and spoil our so-called "leaders." I don't understand exactly why we're so stupid, but that's how it seems to work.
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» RE: CEO
Posted by: Cybershaman
» Winners and losers
Posted by: truthlover
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Posted by: s.duplantier on Jul 29, 2009 4:14 AM
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The fossils of terrible and fierce, but thankfully long-dead predators which paleontologists find gives us hope that like their antediluvian cousins, these sociopathic CEOs and their many-initialed brethren will go the way of the dinosaurs.
But we can't wait for a random comet to do the work of changing the conditions which favor the corporate slimebags. Let's work harder to make them extinct. Let's make the Permian extinction event seem like a Sunday school marshmallow roast compared to what we do to these guys.
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Posted by: SteveBreeze on Jul 29, 2009 4:29 AM
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» RE: If a CEO is NOt ruthless enough to please the money demands
Posted by: Marysue5252
» They don't need to justify themselves!
Posted by: truthlover
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Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Jul 29, 2009 4:45 AM
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Posted by: witchjug on Jul 29, 2009 4:57 AM
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» It's also short term vs. long term planning
Posted by: sliver
» RE: It's also short term vs. long term planning
Posted by: badkitty
» RE: Bullsh*t
Posted by: sallywally
» You just defined a socio- or psychopath
Posted by: truthlover
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Posted by: witchjug on Jul 29, 2009 4:58 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» "The problem is finance laws" - well that's what he's saying!
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» The article doesn't disagree with you, so calling it Bullshit is a bit rich
Posted by: begruntleed
» RE: Bullsh*t
Posted by: kiatoa
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Posted by: dongarb on Jul 29, 2009 5:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The name of the new company is called The Human Agenda and it can be run from a small office with just a few employees. Corporations and even governments subscribe to the service on a yearly basis and that's where the cash flow comes in. Here's what the company does: Corporation A has a job opening for some management position. Several qualified humans are being considered for the job as well as a narcissan and a sociopath. Corporation A sends a message to The Human Agenda who sends over an agent from another subscriber organization, let's say Corporation J. This agent has been chosen completely at random, there was no way to predict who the agent will be, and since she lives in a different city or even country, there will be no way of "repercussing" her once her job is done. She sets up in an empty office and spends the next 2 or 3 days interviewing all the prospective people vying for the position.
She is no ordinary HR person however, she has been trained to spot Anti Social Personality Disorder. She sees that the narcissan has been clumsily sleeping with, blackmailing and bribing around to get the promotion and that the sociopath has been doing the same evil stuff just more devious and invisible.
At the end of her stay she writes a report listing her observations and making her recommendations which is delivered somewhere "upstairs". Then she disappears back to Corporation J, where in time some other random agent from another subscriber company will show up to recommend promotions just like in this case.
So the concept is that promotions are too important to be left to those who can be influenced by the people who really REALLY want the job and who will do anything to get it. It's like a random judge appearing on the panel at a figure skating competition. If sociopaths can be stopped at every step on the ladder, they will never make it to the top. If we can stop the flow of new sociopaths into the upper echelons, we can turn the world around. Another service that The Human Agenda can provide is certification: people being considered for high level jobs can get themselves tested and become certified sensitive humans.
If we can attack the Sociopathic Agenda at the level of every little promotion then we can turn this battle around. If you can't see that the last 10,000 years of human history has been a war between humans versus the psychopaths, then you need to look closer.
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» I think you're missing a really central element here
Posted by: truthlover
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Posted by: ellie on Jul 29, 2009 5:36 AM
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these board of directors members sit on lots of other boards so they co-ordinate with each other to keep their cut of the profits at a minimum high...
C.Wright Mills in the '60's saw this and called it the power elite and it still exists to this day... same thing for politicians, they are the second string, the targets, handsomely paid to shut up and do what they are told...
to break up this monopoly, you have to get at the boards and we really don't know who is doing what at a particular time... if we fire politicians and CEO's, the game still continues...
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Posted by: TarryFaster on Jul 29, 2009 6:03 AM
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The work on this subject began in Europe when Hitler took over Poland and the term and initial studies were created by Andrew M. Lobaczewski (click on the above link) -- WHILE SURVIVING UNDER HITLER'S RULE.
These sociopathic people (about 6% of our population) have "been with us" ever since the beginning of recorded history. They can and should be identified and then restrained from control positions in certain critical endeavors in our society (politics, business, religion, etc.).
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» RE: Thom, what you are describing has been studied and it is called ...
Posted by: maxfactor
» Actually, I think Lobaczewski is mainly writing about the experience under Communism.
Posted by: begruntleed
» RE: Actually, I think Lobaczewski is mainly writing about the experience under Communism.
Posted by: TarryFaster
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Posted by: hagwind on Jul 29, 2009 6:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's a sick and dangerous system. The collapse of so many financial institutions, not to mention national economies, should make that clear -- and so should the possibility that it may be impossible to even begin to repair the damage without drastically overhauling the system. To get an idea of how hard "drastically overhauling the system" is to even think about, never mind plan for and accomplish, take a look at what's going down with health-care reform. Does it remind anyone else of how HAL 9000 responded when it realized the people were trying to curb its power?
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Posted by: rastaman on Jul 29, 2009 6:27 AM
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sociopaths do what they do and either live in complete denial that they are hurting people or don't realize their actions are hurting people.
psychopaths do what they do knowing full well they are hurting people.....but don't care.
CEOs are the latter.
that said, Thom Hartmann is a rabid zionist who not only excuses the bloodlust of Israeli extermination of the Palestinians but relishes and enables it.
so let's ask Hartmann.....just who in the hell is the psychopath here? she should also add HYPOCRITE to her own curriculum vitae and ALTERNET should be ashamed for giving a platform for such neoNAZIism.
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» She???
Posted by: thekidde
» RE: She???
Posted by: fork
» RE: She???
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: She???
Posted by: alexandra_hamilton
» They're more difficult to detect and rarer
Posted by: truthlover
» RE: Once Again, Idiot Hartmann Doesn't Know What She's Talking About
Posted by: jadedhope
» Thom Hartmann is not female, jewish or zionist
Posted by: jackyD
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Posted by: Terrytom on Jul 29, 2009 6:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a much more complicated problem than I outline here and the cure is even more difficult.
I say and the evidence is clear to me, “there will be no change.” We have been scammed.
Terrytom
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Posted by: jstuv on Jul 29, 2009 6:32 AM
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What we need is some good old-fashioned Trust-busting!
By definition, the average Republican Party voter has below average intelligence.
a) Half of all humanity has a below average IQ.
b) Predominantly Republican states have below average IQs.
c) By definition, the average Republican Party voter has below average intelligence.
d) In American History, the contemporary Republican philosophy is a failed concept.
e) History has shown that implemented Republican philosophy leads to failure.
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Jul 29, 2009 6:42 AM
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I have met several CEOs, and believe me they are a vain, ruthless, and downright mean bunch. They are totally detached from the rest of humanity. Indeed, they truly think they are DIFFERENT--in a superior sort of way--then the rest of us.
A great and perceptive article. Thanks Alternet!
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» Don't give Heydrich more credit than he deserves.
Posted by: Parcival01
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Posted by: Zuma on Jul 29, 2009 6:51 AM
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http://www.snakesinsuits.com/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13150054/
http://hare.org/
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Posted by: Sympa on Jul 29, 2009 7:18 AM
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Posted by: peter g on Jul 29, 2009 7:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We cannot fight them with money, we cannot fight them with weapons.
We fight them with the power we have, which is all ours through the simple fact that capitalism wholly depends on our spending money and doing activities which supports their greed.
Honestly examine what you do with your money and time and make spending decisions and have activities that do not contribute to their agenda.
This at the very least will make you feel better and if it reached a critical mass, worldcorp would be toast.
It's already happening to some degree.
Local food interest, bored to tears with their entertainment, the real cost of so-called convenience.
I never felt so liberated and better off since I took the ring out of my nose.
peter g
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Posted by: FoonTheElder on Jul 29, 2009 7:36 AM
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It wasn't unusual for him to leave without the person he was supposed to take to be part of the meeting.
There had been no raises in 3 years.
When the stock market dropped, he laid off employees so he could still support his six homes throughout the country, including Hawaii.
He had pictures all over his office with him and all the big Republican politicos over the ages.
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» Terrytom RE: Once Worked For A Small Business Sociopath CEO
Posted by: Terrytom
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Posted by: premarachel on Jul 29, 2009 7:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wonder if anyone on Wall St, in our banking system, or in government has any idea how it feels to watch how our taxpayer money is spent? How to comprehend $700,000.00 bonus’s for three months work to the employees of a company my taxes just bailed out? Or to hear that Republicans main goal is to scuttle President Obama’s attempt at health care reform?
I can tell you this, I know of nobody who does not think that Wall St, The Fed and our government are in cahoots. I see, as do many others, a large class of people running our country who have grown rich of the system at the expense of the American people. All the winks and the nods, the lobbyists, the sweet deals, the pork, within this group that is supposed to represent we the people, but in actuality represent the biggest businesses, have become so appallingly obvious that it is jaw dropping.
Most Americans simply want to work a decent job and live a decent life. We don’t need millions in our bank accounts, we don’t need real estate all over the world and we don’t need gated communities to live in. We could care less for $4000.00 suits and caviar. We simply want to live our lives with an eye toward our children's and granchildren’s future’s, to see that they are educated and healthy and free of violence, and live in a better world for all. Is that too much to ask of the people who have very comfortably sat in Washington making decisions and deals that have made American people ever poorer as they have grown richer?
So why is there such an ever increasing and obscene imbalance between the monied people who buy our government and the rest of us?
Surely, as a nation, we can show more equality than this. It isn’t a matter of not enough. It’s purely a matter of distribution. Some people have so much excess they could on their own, literally build hospitals and schools and end hunger in their home states. Far, far too many others like me, spiral down for lack of work. We lose our houses, our transportation, our families break up, we end up on the streets, homeless and without health care. Yet someohow the rich continue to amass more and more wealth.
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» RE: And the results are . . . .
Posted by: kiatoa
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Jul 29, 2009 7:57 AM
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. . . . .
Here's a little story that might help answer the question. Years ago, when I worked for a large entertainment company, our department head - a manager running a department of over 100 employees – was promoted upstairs, but the company failed to replace him.
The result? No change. The department functioned just as well without him.
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» Similar at Coors
Posted by: Nickdanger007
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Posted by: tomkidding on Jul 29, 2009 8:32 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would argue that, in actual fact, it is more of an unsurprising causal connection than a surprising contradiction. We hear defences of the insane executive pay that corporations lavish upon their top executives. Were it not for this flexiblity in paying top dollars, we are told, the top corporations would lose out in their competition in the marketplace for top CEO material. They would not be able to secure the best and the brightest, for the most important responsibility in a company, we are told.
Well, it sure seems like they've managed to enlist the best and the brightest. I would argue that "the best and the brightest" is really a euphemism for "the shrewdest and the sleaziest". As it turns out, corporations and their shareholders - with their insatiable greed - are willing to pay the highest price for those willing to stoop the lowest. Whatever it takes. Whoever's moral inhibitions are sufficiently muted as to be able to exploit the most vulnerable and leave the most damage in their wake for others to clean up, without so much as the slightest twitching of their shriveled conscience - those are the people that the biggest financial stakeholders want.
They specifically want the people who would be willing to turn a blind eye to accounting and business practices that are likely to result in a wholesale fleecing of taxpayers when their all-promise-and-no-deliver corporations fall flat on their faces. It is the ones who have carefully cauterized their compassion, who have developed the kind of detachment that would allow even the very Holocaust to be rationalized away as "in the shareholders' best interests". Yes, these are the people that corporations have sought and installed in the top positions.
Because corporations are alien entities within our society that take on a life of their own, and they act not in the interests of the society within which they operate, but in the interests of feeding their own growth and survival. They tolerate the humans that make up their corporate body, to the extent that those humans have utility to them, and then they toss them out to the cold when those humans become inconvenient. The corporation takes humans and poisons them. It first turns the humans against all the other creatures on Earth, and the humans are willing to go along with it, because they don't feel the pain of the habitat loss and the hardship that is imposed upon the other creatures of Earth. And then, the corporation turns the humans against other classes of humans, and the humans are willing to go along with it, because they are detached and don't feel the pain and the hardship of the humans that are turned into feedstock to build the corporation's riches.
And it is "the best and the brightest" that rise to top rank in these pyramids of exploitation. And when the pyramid fractures apart and crumbles to the ground, those perched at the top fall safely to Earth with their gilded parachutes, while those down below are crushed under the rubble of the shattered juggernaut.
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» RE: The Best and the Brightest
Posted by: ender
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Posted by: zigy on Jul 29, 2009 8:34 AM
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Posted by: rtmyth on Jul 29, 2009 8:46 AM
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Jul 29, 2009 8:50 AM
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Posted by: ender on Jul 29, 2009 9:12 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the plethora of incompetent CEOs who seem to play musical chairs for top executive positions that they fail into, round and round, one after another.
On one side of the economy, employees practically shit themselves with worry over a few dollars of office supplies or some such. On the other side it's A-OK to run the company into the ground because you've got your golden parachute and a plum position waiting for you somewhere else.
I gag whenever I hear, "But we have to offer these compensation packages in order to recruit top talent." I've been unemployed and underemployed since October of 20001 and this the fifth round of bullshit we've seen in eight years and no one except the workers gets fucked.
Dot com bubble: "No one could've seen it coming." No, even my mentally handicapped father had enough common sense to say, "How can they be making money?" whenever a dot com commercial came on the TV.
9/11 & 7/7: "No one could've seen that coming." No, I was on an international phone call from NYC to the UK on 9/7/2001 talking about the effectiveness of using airplanes as guided missiles to attack NY. (No one has ever contacted me about this phone call!) No one could've imagined such a scenario, um, despite that terrorism drills for those exact scenarios were being conducted at the same exact times and same exact places that the real attacks happened to occur.
Energy deregulation: After the spectacular failures of telecommunications deregulation and the deregulation of the airline industry, you know what would be a great idea? Deregulating electricity, the lifeblood of modern life. No one could've seen that coming.
Mortgage crisis: Working the numbers involves nothing more complex than basic math skills (adding, subtracting, multiplication and division). Massaging the numbers like they are salt water taffy and they still don't work. "How the hell can these people afford a house?" Answer: they couldn't. Again, no one (without a fourth grade education) could've seen that coming.
Oil bubble: "You don't know what you're talking about," I was told by my boss a year and a half before the oil bubble popped. "But surely this is not sustainable. How are we preparing for when the price of oil falls?" Answer: not a Goddamn thing. The CEO got $13,000,000 in compensation in 2008 and I got a fucken pink slip in February. No one's calling for the CEO to resign either.
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» RE: Incompetent CEOs
Posted by: badkitty
» Schadenfreude
Posted by: ender
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Posted by: digitlburn on Jul 29, 2009 9:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only problem with that argument is...where in the Constitution does it state that rights are EVER given to corporations? It doesn't. But the "free-marketers" have obfuscated the argument by assigning personal rights and freedoms to corporations, so that their companies can maximize profits, but minimize losses and possible criminal prosecution when the $4!t hits the fan.
A perfect example...I watched the show "Reaper" this last year. In one episode the devil is running a company whose business is the corruption of souls. When explaining to his son how his business works, this is his exact quote...
"Did you know, beginning in the late 19th century, corporations were granted all the rights of the individual, but none of the annoying responsibilities. They lack, almost by design, any kind of moral compass, conscience, or compassion. Basically, corporations are a way to enact sociopathic behavior on a grand scale. In short, they're what makes this country so damn great."
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» RE: Psychopathic behavior
Posted by: tap17x
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Posted by: Benwa on Jul 29, 2009 9:53 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: charles000 on Jul 29, 2009 9:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And then, of course, there was the neurotic 90s. the dot com bubble, the strange universe of vast sums of money changing hands to invent a purported business with no tangible assets, except a trendy sounding name and a website . . .
But wait, there's more!
The mother of all Ponzi schemes was quietly in the making - and no, I'm talking about that charming character, Bernie Madoff, former chair of NASDAQ, and scumbag of the moment, now serving life in prison.
I'm talking about all of Wall Street, the biggest conglomerate of investment banking and financial services consortia ever assembled in history, staging the biggest phony investment scheme in all of known history, based on fake real estate valuation schemes, in which the primary product of the US economy sold to the global marketplace was bad paper, phony debt obligations resold at 100 to 1 (or worse) leveraged valuation . . .
Oh, gosh . . . and you suppose, just maybe, possibly, this weird Alice in Wonderland world of inverse economics might have attracted the lowest of the low, self serving soulless scumabgs - oops, I meant CEOs - like moths to a light?
Stop the presses, alert the media, round up the usual suspects!!!
Is anyone, ANYONE, surprised by any of this?
Hmmmmm???
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Posted by: tap17x on Jul 29, 2009 10:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: dover23 on Jul 29, 2009 10:17 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
criminalize plants
drop bombs to kill innocent foreigners
take your money and give to wall street
torture prisoners
accept bribes and feign democracy
regulate small business into bankruptcy
and among countless other crimes...
CONTROL SOCIETY WITH THE THREAT AND USE OF VIOLENCE!
CEOs simply exploit the stupidity of people that believe in planned economies. They do not make laws, they buy them. They depend on YOU.
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» RE: CEOs pale in comparison to DC politicians
Posted by: Morell
» CEO do all of these things.
Posted by: wolfgangmo75
» Idiot, how do they take your money?
Posted by: dover23
» Wanna bet?
Posted by: truthlover
» You're not seeing the forest through the trees
Posted by: dover23
» RE: You're not seeing the forest through the trees
Posted by: Morell
» RE: CEOs pale in comparison to DC politicians
Posted by: aichbe
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Posted by: BlueTigress on Jul 29, 2009 10:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All this adds up to a heavy incentive to be generous.
Frankly I think that if a company is losing money the CEO should get NO pay because he isn't doing a good job.
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Posted by: Caesar77 on Jul 29, 2009 10:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They can't even provide a decent health care system for the poor bastards that DON'T make billions.
What a despicable country.
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Posted by: vertical on Jul 29, 2009 10:56 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Athletes and celebrities get their piece of the pie
Posted by: RossB
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Posted by: JayHaden on Jul 29, 2009 11:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: La Colombetta on Jul 29, 2009 11:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: How about naming names?
Posted by: badkitty
» RE: How about naming names?
Posted by: La Colombetta
» RE: How about naming names?
Posted by: badkitty
» RE: How about naming names?
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: How about naming names?
Posted by: talkville
» RE: How about naming names?
Posted by: La Colombetta
» RE: How about naming names?
Posted by: talkville
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Posted by: be marc on Jul 29, 2009 11:44 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Blue Dog Democrats, who are clearly in it for their own benefit (the money), and have no intention of representing their constituents, are another example. They are such adept liars that they are able to convince their constituents they are actually working for them. Like Bill Clinton.
Look around. They are everywhere, and they are generally quite successful. Psychopaths are the ultimate liars and manipulators, and our system is set up, by them, to reward that.
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Posted by: talkville on Jul 29, 2009 12:02 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Measure the idolatry, reverence, and slavish awe and admiration which that "public intellectual" has enjoyed, from the 50's thru today.
Notice the socio-economic and political predilections of those who heap such idolatry, reverence and slavish adimiration upon that person and their cultural, social and moral commitments.
Although there are many, many more influences and trends which value antipathy to society and to social relations which are just and dignified, and fulfilling and beneficial to all, it takes but some attention to those philosophies and perspectives and moralities positivized and popularized by Ayn Rand to help understand our current barbarism.
In the USA, sociopathology is a prevalent cultural, economic and political value; it has long been one. It's a "hereditary trait" from Mother England.
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» Good point;Greenspan was a noteable Ayn Rand acolyte who...
Posted by: zigy
» You misunderstand Rand
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: You misunderstand Rand
Posted by: Livemike
» RE: A useful exercise
Posted by: Livemike
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Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Jul 29, 2009 1:24 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If not, how fundamentally different would this business be from a business that hired and fired lots of workers to cut costs and increase the flow of money to the top?
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» RE: Let's Play Devil's Advocate
Posted by: talkville
» Exactly
Posted by: dbarber
» RE: Let's Play Devil's Advocate
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: Let's Play Devil's Advocate
Posted by: talkville
» RE: Let's Play Devil's Advocate
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: Let's Play Devil's Advocate
Posted by: talkville
» RE: "Amplifier for Other Progressive Media"
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: "Amplifier for Other Progressive Media"
Posted by: talkville
» RE: "Amplifier for Other Progressive Media"
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: On a more serious note
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: On a more serious note
Posted by: talkville
» RE: On a more serious note
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: On a more serious note
Posted by: talkville
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Posted by: Rusty Shackleford on Jul 29, 2009 1:27 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But CEO's are just half the problem: The other half is capitalism itself. As mentioned, there IS NO oversight. There is no regulation. There is no control over these corporations. They do what they want, when they want.
Capitalism is a failed experiment. Adam Smith, for all his idealism, is a monster for conceptualizing a world where entities like this are allowed to control everything. It never occurred to him that perhaps some of these "winners" in a free-market system would eventually get so big, that they could rig the game to their own design. People will buy what you tell them to, because not only do you sell the product, but you control the tv network that tells them they need to buy "x."
It's time to decentralize away from one central power force, or else that power is going to be stretched far too thin, and it will break. We've seen towns across New England ban corporations from their water supplies, ban billboards, etc. It's time for other local communities to start doing the same. No more shopping at WalMart. No more support to these behemoths. It's time to create more down to earth realms.
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» Don't blame Adam Smith...
Posted by: zigy
» RE: CEO's are only half the problem...
Posted by: Livemike
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Posted by: Morell on Jul 29, 2009 2:39 PM
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» The latter, maybe
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
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Posted by: abusedbypenguins on Jul 29, 2009 5:06 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: micko on Jul 30, 2009 2:20 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Livemike on Aug 5, 2009 7:09 PM
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For a start he claims that sociopathy is so rare and highly valued that it garners hundreds of millions of dollars, but his own figures put about 3 million sociopaths in america. Even assuming that only white male sociopaths need apply (and that destroys his contention that there is a competitive market) that still leaves at least 750,000 potential applicants. None of them would work for less that $10m?
This is not however the most rediculous part of his story, although if it was that would still sink it. No the most rediculous part is the insistence that you need sociopaths to run layoffs, when in fact you don't even need them to run torture rooms. Google "Stamford prison experiment" or "milgram experiment" if you're really that ignorant. Not to mention plenty of non-sociopaths refuse to pay people who's services they don't want every day, including the author.
Of course the best test of this idea that high CEO prices result from them having a needed skill set is CEOs that don't have a needed skill set. There are enough of these to form a statisically valid sample (god are there enough of them). We find that plenty of these people are getting paid big bucks for driving their companies into the ground. Whatever value there is in being able to "sack your own mother while whistling showtunes" (Scott Adams) clearly it's not enough for these guys to be worth it. Yet they still get paid.
Another test is whether CEO pay is high in industries where widespread sacking people is likely. Until recently the finance industry had little reason to sack people and was indeed taking people on regardless of age, race, creed or even competence. Yet they had some of the highest CEO pay. Clearly the authors hypothesis conflicts with pretty much all the availible facts. So those of you who praised it, ask yourself why. Why did you jump on any theory, no matter how boneheaded that allowed you to think that people richer than you were richer because they were evil?
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Posted by: RvLCoG on Jul 29, 2009 1:18 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: What the World Needs
Posted by: progressive-life
» Meaning "God is dead, long live the CEOs"?
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Meaning "God is dead, long live the CEOs"?
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: What the World Needs is less of you
Posted by: wagnerrocks@gmail.com
» You obviously didn't read what he said
Posted by: truthlover
» RE: What the World Needs
Posted by: mkdelta69
» RE: What the World Needs
Posted by: aichbe
» RE: What the World Needs is fewer sociopaths in civil service too
Posted by: greentime
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Posted by: lefty010 on Jul 29, 2009 1:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just FYI, it was not Darwin who proposed these ideas. Darwin's focus was on biological processes. It was actually economist Herbert Spencer who coined the term "survival of the fittest" when he read about Darwin's theory of natural selection. Spencer then applied this idea to his own economic theories thus creating the wholly imaginary idea of an economic equivalent of the biological process of natural selection.
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» RE: Just for Clarification
Posted by: bitter_robot
» Good point.
Posted by: Parcival01
» RE: Good point.
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: Just for Clarification
Posted by: wbblack
» RE: Just for Clarification
Posted by: mv_mc
» Survival of the fittest is a rationalization for greed.
Posted by: zigy
» RE: Survival of the fittest
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Survival of the fittest
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» Beat Me To It
Posted by: Eric.Arthur.Blair
» RE: Just for Clarification
Posted by: truthlover
» RE: Just for Clarification
Posted by: mv_mc
» That's not why they reject the theory of evolution
Posted by: truthlover
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Posted by: Lily H. on Jul 29, 2009 1:51 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Goes along with the phrase, "If you had any brains, you'd be dangerous".
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» RE: You're Only Half-Right...
Posted by: Xynyx
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Posted by: Perry Logan on Jul 29, 2009 3:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Clinton haters--who define ad hominem politics today--are fond of saying the Clintons are sociopaths--suggesting an alarmingly low opinion of American voters, among other things. So caution is advised in psychoanalyzing public figures whose policies we disapprove.
But I agree that the Republican Revolution was the elevation of sociopathy to a social ideal.
It got started with the dingbat President, Ronald Reagan. All of a sudden, the worst corporate behavior was upheld as the ideal of humankind. It turned out businessmen were the superrace and greed was good.
Money would trickle down (after eons, one presumes); business was efficient and government was inefficient; business methods should be applied to all areas of human activity. Life was an Ayn Rand novel.
Keep in mind, IQs in America had sunk to an all-time low at this point.
So, as we contemplate our situation, we should keep in mind America just spent the last 30 years rigging the institutions of business, government, the media, and education to put sociopathy firmly in the driver's seat, forever.
The sociopathy machine that is the U.S.A. has tremendous momentum and resources. We see this being played out in the disheartening health care debate, not to mention the fact that our new President is some kinda neocon. Even if our luck improves, it's going to take some time to turn this juggernaut of greed around.
Symbolic YouTube video--Holes in History
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» RE: The elevation of sociopathy to a social ideal
Posted by: WingedGryphon
» RE: The elevation of sociopathy to a social ideal
Posted by: Jbuuty
» As usual Mr. Logan...
Posted by: zigy
» RE: The elevation of sociopathy to a social ideal
Posted by: winchelenator
» RE: oh...
Posted by: Cybershaman
» Definitions of sociopathy and psychopathy
Posted by: truthlover
» RE: The elevation of sociopathy to a social ideal
Posted by: zonmoy
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jul 29, 2009 3:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems to me that the answer is more cultural, sociological, and political than economic or statistical. We simply let them get away with it. We place a subjective value on them because we think we need to give them incentives to perform, or that we need to reward them simply for being CEOs, even though they often make more money by screwing up or retiring than doing anything productive.
CEOs are more like tulips and pet rocks than surgeons, engineers, and others whose pay is more or less justified by their skill set and education. As humans, and especially as Americans, we tend to be a hierarchical breed that has some collective psychological need to deify and spoil our so-called "leaders." I don't understand exactly why we're so stupid, but that's how it seems to work.
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» RE: CEO
Posted by: Cybershaman
» Winners and losers
Posted by: truthlover
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Posted by: s.duplantier on Jul 29, 2009 4:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fossils of terrible and fierce, but thankfully long-dead predators which paleontologists find gives us hope that like their antediluvian cousins, these sociopathic CEOs and their many-initialed brethren will go the way of the dinosaurs.
But we can't wait for a random comet to do the work of changing the conditions which favor the corporate slimebags. Let's work harder to make them extinct. Let's make the Permian extinction event seem like a Sunday school marshmallow roast compared to what we do to these guys.
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Posted by: SteveBreeze on Jul 29, 2009 4:29 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: If a CEO is NOt ruthless enough to please the money demands
Posted by: Marysue5252
» They don't need to justify themselves!
Posted by: truthlover
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Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Jul 29, 2009 4:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: witchjug on Jul 29, 2009 4:57 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» It's also short term vs. long term planning
Posted by: sliver
» RE: It's also short term vs. long term planning
Posted by: badkitty
» RE: Bullsh*t
Posted by: sallywally
» You just defined a socio- or psychopath
Posted by: truthlover
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Posted by: witchjug on Jul 29, 2009 4:58 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» "The problem is finance laws" - well that's what he's saying!
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» The article doesn't disagree with you, so calling it Bullshit is a bit rich
Posted by: begruntleed
» RE: Bullsh*t
Posted by: kiatoa
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Posted by: dongarb on Jul 29, 2009 5:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The name of the new company is called The Human Agenda and it can be run from a small office with just a few employees. Corporations and even governments subscribe to the service on a yearly basis and that's where the cash flow comes in. Here's what the company does: Corporation A has a job opening for some management position. Several qualified humans are being considered for the job as well as a narcissan and a sociopath. Corporation A sends a message to The Human Agenda who sends over an agent from another subscriber organization, let's say Corporation J. This agent has been chosen completely at random, there was no way to predict who the agent will be, and since she lives in a different city or even country, there will be no way of "repercussing" her once her job is done. She sets up in an empty office and spends the next 2 or 3 days interviewing all the prospective people vying for the position.
She is no ordinary HR person however, she has been trained to spot Anti Social Personality Disorder. She sees that the narcissan has been clumsily sleeping with, blackmailing and bribing around to get the promotion and that the sociopath has been doing the same evil stuff just more devious and invisible.
At the end of her stay she writes a report listing her observations and making her recommendations which is delivered somewhere "upstairs". Then she disappears back to Corporation J, where in time some other random agent from another subscriber company will show up to recommend promotions just like in this case.
So the concept is that promotions are too important to be left to those who can be influenced by the people who really REALLY want the job and who will do anything to get it. It's like a random judge appearing on the panel at a figure skating competition. If sociopaths can be stopped at every step on the ladder, they will never make it to the top. If we can stop the flow of new sociopaths into the upper echelons, we can turn the world around. Another service that The Human Agenda can provide is certification: people being considered for high level jobs can get themselves tested and become certified sensitive humans.
If we can attack the Sociopathic Agenda at the level of every little promotion then we can turn this battle around. If you can't see that the last 10,000 years of human history has been a war between humans versus the psychopaths, then you need to look closer.
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» I think you're missing a really central element here
Posted by: truthlover
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Posted by: ellie on Jul 29, 2009 5:36 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
these board of directors members sit on lots of other boards so they co-ordinate with each other to keep their cut of the profits at a minimum high...
C.Wright Mills in the '60's saw this and called it the power elite and it still exists to this day... same thing for politicians, they are the second string, the targets, handsomely paid to shut up and do what they are told...
to break up this monopoly, you have to get at the boards and we really don't know who is doing what at a particular time... if we fire politicians and CEO's, the game still continues...
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Posted by: TarryFaster on Jul 29, 2009 6:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The work on this subject began in Europe when Hitler took over Poland and the term and initial studies were created by Andrew M. Lobaczewski (click on the above link) -- WHILE SURVIVING UNDER HITLER'S RULE.
These sociopathic people (about 6% of our population) have "been with us" ever since the beginning of recorded history. They can and should be identified and then restrained from control positions in certain critical endeavors in our society (politics, business, religion, etc.).
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» RE: Thom, what you are describing has been studied and it is called ...
Posted by: maxfactor
» Actually, I think Lobaczewski is mainly writing about the experience under Communism.
Posted by: begruntleed
» RE: Actually, I think Lobaczewski is mainly writing about the experience under Communism.
Posted by: TarryFaster
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Posted by: hagwind on Jul 29, 2009 6:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's a sick and dangerous system. The collapse of so many financial institutions, not to mention national economies, should make that clear -- and so should the possibility that it may be impossible to even begin to repair the damage without drastically overhauling the system. To get an idea of how hard "drastically overhauling the system" is to even think about, never mind plan for and accomplish, take a look at what's going down with health-care reform. Does it remind anyone else of how HAL 9000 responded when it realized the people were trying to curb its power?
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Posted by: rastaman on Jul 29, 2009 6:27 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
sociopaths do what they do and either live in complete denial that they are hurting people or don't realize their actions are hurting people.
psychopaths do what they do knowing full well they are hurting people.....but don't care.
CEOs are the latter.
that said, Thom Hartmann is a rabid zionist who not only excuses the bloodlust of Israeli extermination of the Palestinians but relishes and enables it.
so let's ask Hartmann.....just who in the hell is the psychopath here? she should also add HYPOCRITE to her own curriculum vitae and ALTERNET should be ashamed for giving a platform for such neoNAZIism.
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» She???
Posted by: thekidde
» RE: She???
Posted by: fork
» RE: She???
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: She???
Posted by: alexandra_hamilton
» They're more difficult to detect and rarer
Posted by: truthlover
» RE: Once Again, Idiot Hartmann Doesn't Know What She's Talking About
Posted by: jadedhope
» Thom Hartmann is not female, jewish or zionist
Posted by: jackyD
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Posted by: Terrytom on Jul 29, 2009 6:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a much more complicated problem than I outline here and the cure is even more difficult.
I say and the evidence is clear to me, “there will be no change.” We have been scammed.
Terrytom
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Posted by: jstuv on Jul 29, 2009 6:32 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What we need is some good old-fashioned Trust-busting!
By definition, the average Republican Party voter has below average intelligence.
a) Half of all humanity has a below average IQ.
b) Predominantly Republican states have below average IQs.
c) By definition, the average Republican Party voter has below average intelligence.
d) In American History, the contemporary Republican philosophy is a failed concept.
e) History has shown that implemented Republican philosophy leads to failure.
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Jul 29, 2009 6:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have met several CEOs, and believe me they are a vain, ruthless, and downright mean bunch. They are totally detached from the rest of humanity. Indeed, they truly think they are DIFFERENT--in a superior sort of way--then the rest of us.
A great and perceptive article. Thanks Alternet!
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» Don't give Heydrich more credit than he deserves.
Posted by: Parcival01
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Posted by: Zuma on Jul 29, 2009 6:51 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.snakesinsuits.com/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13150054/
http://hare.org/
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Posted by: Sympa on Jul 29, 2009 7:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: peter g on Jul 29, 2009 7:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We cannot fight them with money, we cannot fight them with weapons.
We fight them with the power we have, which is all ours through the simple fact that capitalism wholly depends on our spending money and doing activities which supports their greed.
Honestly examine what you do with your money and time and make spending decisions and have activities that do not contribute to their agenda.
This at the very least will make you feel better and if it reached a critical mass, worldcorp would be toast.
It's already happening to some degree.
Local food interest, bored to tears with their entertainment, the real cost of so-called convenience.
I never felt so liberated and better off since I took the ring out of my nose.
peter g
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Posted by: FoonTheElder on Jul 29, 2009 7:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It wasn't unusual for him to leave without the person he was supposed to take to be part of the meeting.
There had been no raises in 3 years.
When the stock market dropped, he laid off employees so he could still support his six homes throughout the country, including Hawaii.
He had pictures all over his office with him and all the big Republican politicos over the ages.
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» Terrytom RE: Once Worked For A Small Business Sociopath CEO
Posted by: Terrytom
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Posted by: premarachel on Jul 29, 2009 7:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wonder if anyone on Wall St, in our banking system, or in government has any idea how it feels to watch how our taxpayer money is spent? How to comprehend $700,000.00 bonus’s for three months work to the employees of a company my taxes just bailed out? Or to hear that Republicans main goal is to scuttle President Obama’s attempt at health care reform?
I can tell you this, I know of nobody who does not think that Wall St, The Fed and our government are in cahoots. I see, as do many others, a large class of people running our country who have grown rich of the system at the expense of the American people. All the winks and the nods, the lobbyists, the sweet deals, the pork, within this group that is supposed to represent we the people, but in actuality represent the biggest businesses, have become so appallingly obvious that it is jaw dropping.
Most Americans simply want to work a decent job and live a decent life. We don’t need millions in our bank accounts, we don’t need real estate all over the world and we don’t need gated communities to live in. We could care less for $4000.00 suits and caviar. We simply want to live our lives with an eye toward our children's and granchildren’s future’s, to see that they are educated and healthy and free of violence, and live in a better world for all. Is that too much to ask of the people who have very comfortably sat in Washington making decisions and deals that have made American people ever poorer as they have grown richer?
So why is there such an ever increasing and obscene imbalance between the monied people who buy our government and the rest of us?
Surely, as a nation, we can show more equality than this. It isn’t a matter of not enough. It’s purely a matter of distribution. Some people have so much excess they could on their own, literally build hospitals and schools and end hunger in their home states. Far, far too many others like me, spiral down for lack of work. We lose our houses, our transportation, our families break up, we end up on the streets, homeless and without health care. Yet someohow the rich continue to amass more and more wealth.
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» RE: And the results are . . . .
Posted by: kiatoa
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Jul 29, 2009 7:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
. . . . .
Here's a little story that might help answer the question. Years ago, when I worked for a large entertainment company, our department head - a manager running a department of over 100 employees – was promoted upstairs, but the company failed to replace him.
The result? No change. The department functioned just as well without him.
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» Similar at Coors
Posted by: Nickdanger007
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Posted by: tomkidding on Jul 29, 2009 8:32 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would argue that, in actual fact, it is more of an unsurprising causal connection than a surprising contradiction. We hear defences of the insane executive pay that corporations lavish upon their top executives. Were it not for this flexiblity in paying top dollars, we are told, the top corporations would lose out in their competition in the marketplace for top CEO material. They would not be able to secure the best and the brightest, for the most important responsibility in a company, we are told.
Well, it sure seems like they've managed to enlist the best and the brightest. I would argue that "the best and the brightest" is really a euphemism for "the shrewdest and the sleaziest". As it turns out, corporations and their shareholders - with their insatiable greed - are willing to pay the highest price for those willing to stoop the lowest. Whatever it takes. Whoever's moral inhibitions are sufficiently muted as to be able to exploit the most vulnerable and leave the most damage in their wake for others to clean up, without so much as the slightest twitching of their shriveled conscience - those are the people that the biggest financial stakeholders want.
They specifically want the people who would be willing to turn a blind eye to accounting and business practices that are likely to result in a wholesale fleecing of taxpayers when their all-promise-and-no-deliver corporations fall flat on their faces. It is the ones who have carefully cauterized their compassion, who have developed the kind of detachment that would allow even the very Holocaust to be rationalized away as "in the shareholders' best interests". Yes, these are the people that corporations have sought and installed in the top positions.
Because corporations are alien entities within our society that take on a life of their own, and they act not in the interests of the society within which they operate, but in the interests of feeding their own growth and survival. They tolerate the humans that make up their corporate body, to the extent that those humans have utility to them, and then they toss them out to the cold when those humans become inconvenient. The corporation takes humans and poisons them. It first turns the humans against all the other creatures on Earth, and the humans are willing to go along with it, because they don't feel the pain of the habitat loss and the hardship that is imposed upon the other creatures of Earth. And then, the corporation turns the humans against other classes of humans, and the humans are willing to go along with it, because they are detached and don't feel the pain and the hardship of the humans that are turned into feedstock to build the corporation's riches.
And it is "the best and the brightest" that rise to top rank in these pyramids of exploitation. And when the pyramid fractures apart and crumbles to the ground, those perched at the top fall safely to Earth with their gilded parachutes, while those down below are crushed under the rubble of the shattered juggernaut.
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» RE: The Best and the Brightest
Posted by: ender
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Posted by: zigy on Jul 29, 2009 8:34 AM
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Posted by: rtmyth on Jul 29, 2009 8:46 AM
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Jul 29, 2009 8:50 AM
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Posted by: ender on Jul 29, 2009 9:12 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the plethora of incompetent CEOs who seem to play musical chairs for top executive positions that they fail into, round and round, one after another.
On one side of the economy, employees practically shit themselves with worry over a few dollars of office supplies or some such. On the other side it's A-OK to run the company into the ground because you've got your golden parachute and a plum position waiting for you somewhere else.
I gag whenever I hear, "But we have to offer these compensation packages in order to recruit top talent." I've been unemployed and underemployed since October of 20001 and this the fifth round of bullshit we've seen in eight years and no one except the workers gets fucked.
Dot com bubble: "No one could've seen it coming." No, even my mentally handicapped father had enough common sense to say, "How can they be making money?" whenever a dot com commercial came on the TV.
9/11 & 7/7: "No one could've seen that coming." No, I was on an international phone call from NYC to the UK on 9/7/2001 talking about the effectiveness of using airplanes as guided missiles to attack NY. (No one has ever contacted me about this phone call!) No one could've imagined such a scenario, um, despite that terrorism drills for those exact scenarios were being conducted at the same exact times and same exact places that the real attacks happened to occur.
Energy deregulation: After the spectacular failures of telecommunications deregulation and the deregulation of the airline industry, you know what would be a great idea? Deregulating electricity, the lifeblood of modern life. No one could've seen that coming.
Mortgage crisis: Working the numbers involves nothing more complex than basic math skills (adding, subtracting, multiplication and division). Massaging the numbers like they are salt water taffy and they still don't work. "How the hell can these people afford a house?" Answer: they couldn't. Again, no one (without a fourth grade education) could've seen that coming.
Oil bubble: "You don't know what you're talking about," I was told by my boss a year and a half before the oil bubble popped. "But surely this is not sustainable. How are we preparing for when the price of oil falls?" Answer: not a Goddamn thing. The CEO got $13,000,000 in compensation in 2008 and I got a fucken pink slip in February. No one's calling for the CEO to resign either.
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» RE: Incompetent CEOs
Posted by: badkitty
» Schadenfreude
Posted by: ender
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Posted by: digitlburn on Jul 29, 2009 9:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only problem with that argument is...where in the Constitution does it state that rights are EVER given to corporations? It doesn't. But the "free-marketers" have obfuscated the argument by assigning personal rights and freedoms to corporations, so that their companies can maximize profits, but minimize losses and possible criminal prosecution when the $4!t hits the fan.
A perfect example...I watched the show "Reaper" this last year. In one episode the devil is running a company whose business is the corruption of souls. When explaining to his son how his business works, this is his exact quote...
"Did you know, beginning in the late 19th century, corporations were granted all the rights of the individual, but none of the annoying responsibilities. They lack, almost by design, any kind of moral compass, conscience, or compassion. Basically, corporations are a way to enact sociopathic behavior on a grand scale. In short, they're what makes this country so damn great."
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» RE: Psychopathic behavior
Posted by: tap17x
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Posted by: Benwa on Jul 29, 2009 9:53 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: charles000 on Jul 29, 2009 9:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And then, of course, there was the neurotic 90s. the dot com bubble, the strange universe of vast sums of money changing hands to invent a purported business with no tangible assets, except a trendy sounding name and a website . . .
But wait, there's more!
The mother of all Ponzi schemes was quietly in the making - and no, I'm talking about that charming character, Bernie Madoff, former chair of NASDAQ, and scumbag of the moment, now serving life in prison.
I'm talking about all of Wall Street, the biggest conglomerate of investment banking and financial services consortia ever assembled in history, staging the biggest phony investment scheme in all of known history, based on fake real estate valuation schemes, in which the primary product of the US economy sold to the global marketplace was bad paper, phony debt obligations resold at 100 to 1 (or worse) leveraged valuation . . .
Oh, gosh . . . and you suppose, just maybe, possibly, this weird Alice in Wonderland world of inverse economics might have attracted the lowest of the low, self serving soulless scumabgs - oops, I meant CEOs - like moths to a light?
Stop the presses, alert the media, round up the usual suspects!!!
Is anyone, ANYONE, surprised by any of this?
Hmmmmm???
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Posted by: tap17x on Jul 29, 2009 10:09 AM
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Posted by: dover23 on Jul 29, 2009 10:17 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
criminalize plants
drop bombs to kill innocent foreigners
take your money and give to wall street
torture prisoners
accept bribes and feign democracy
regulate small business into bankruptcy
and among countless other crimes...
CONTROL SOCIETY WITH THE THREAT AND USE OF VIOLENCE!
CEOs simply exploit the stupidity of people that believe in planned economies. They do not make laws, they buy them. They depend on YOU.
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» RE: CEOs pale in comparison to DC politicians
Posted by: Morell
» CEO do all of these things.
Posted by: wolfgangmo75
» Idiot, how do they take your money?
Posted by: dover23
» Wanna bet?
Posted by: truthlover
» You're not seeing the forest through the trees
Posted by: dover23
» RE: You're not seeing the forest through the trees
Posted by: Morell
» RE: CEOs pale in comparison to DC politicians
Posted by: aichbe
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Posted by: BlueTigress on Jul 29, 2009 10:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All this adds up to a heavy incentive to be generous.
Frankly I think that if a company is losing money the CEO should get NO pay because he isn't doing a good job.
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Posted by: Caesar77 on Jul 29, 2009 10:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They can't even provide a decent health care system for the poor bastards that DON'T make billions.
What a despicable country.
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Posted by: vertical on Jul 29, 2009 10:56 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Athletes and celebrities get their piece of the pie
Posted by: RossB
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Posted by: JayHaden on Jul 29, 2009 11:10 AM
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Posted by: La Colombetta on Jul 29, 2009 11:17 AM
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» RE: How about naming names?
Posted by: badkitty
» RE: How about naming names?
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» RE: How about naming names?
Posted by: badkitty
» RE: How about naming names?
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: How about naming names?
Posted by: talkville
» RE: How about naming names?
Posted by: La Colombetta
» RE: How about naming names?
Posted by: talkville
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Posted by: be marc on Jul 29, 2009 11:44 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Blue Dog Democrats, who are clearly in it for their own benefit (the money), and have no intention of representing their constituents, are another example. They are such adept liars that they are able to convince their constituents they are actually working for them. Like Bill Clinton.
Look around. They are everywhere, and they are generally quite successful. Psychopaths are the ultimate liars and manipulators, and our system is set up, by them, to reward that.
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Posted by: talkville on Jul 29, 2009 12:02 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Measure the idolatry, reverence, and slavish awe and admiration which that "public intellectual" has enjoyed, from the 50's thru today.
Notice the socio-economic and political predilections of those who heap such idolatry, reverence and slavish adimiration upon that person and their cultural, social and moral commitments.
Although there are many, many more influences and trends which value antipathy to society and to social relations which are just and dignified, and fulfilling and beneficial to all, it takes but some attention to those philosophies and perspectives and moralities positivized and popularized by Ayn Rand to help understand our current barbarism.
In the USA, sociopathology is a prevalent cultural, economic and political value; it has long been one. It's a "hereditary trait" from Mother England.
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» Good point;Greenspan was a noteable Ayn Rand acolyte who...
Posted by: zigy
» You misunderstand Rand
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: You misunderstand Rand
Posted by: Livemike
» RE: A useful exercise
Posted by: Livemike
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Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Jul 29, 2009 1:24 PM
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If not, how fundamentally different would this business be from a business that hired and fired lots of workers to cut costs and increase the flow of money to the top?
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» RE: Let's Play Devil's Advocate
Posted by: talkville
» Exactly
Posted by: dbarber
» RE: Let's Play Devil's Advocate
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: Let's Play Devil's Advocate
Posted by: talkville
» RE: Let's Play Devil's Advocate
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: Let's Play Devil's Advocate
Posted by: talkville
» RE: "Amplifier for Other Progressive Media"
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: "Amplifier for Other Progressive Media"
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» RE: "Amplifier for Other Progressive Media"
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: On a more serious note
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» RE: On a more serious note
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» RE: On a more serious note
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» RE: On a more serious note
Posted by: talkville
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Posted by: Rusty Shackleford on Jul 29, 2009 1:27 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But CEO's are just half the problem: The other half is capitalism itself. As mentioned, there IS NO oversight. There is no regulation. There is no control over these corporations. They do what they want, when they want.
Capitalism is a failed experiment. Adam Smith, for all his idealism, is a monster for conceptualizing a world where entities like this are allowed to control everything. It never occurred to him that perhaps some of these "winners" in a free-market system would eventually get so big, that they could rig the game to their own design. People will buy what you tell them to, because not only do you sell the product, but you control the tv network that tells them they need to buy "x."
It's time to decentralize away from one central power force, or else that power is going to be stretched far too thin, and it will break. We've seen towns across New England ban corporations from their water supplies, ban billboards, etc. It's time for other local communities to start doing the same. No more shopping at WalMart. No more support to these behemoths. It's time to create more down to earth realms.
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» Don't blame Adam Smith...
Posted by: zigy
» RE: CEO's are only half the problem...
Posted by: Livemike
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Posted by: Morell on Jul 29, 2009 2:39 PM
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» The latter, maybe
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
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Posted by: abusedbypenguins on Jul 29, 2009 5:06 PM
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Posted by: micko on Jul 30, 2009 2:20 PM
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Posted by: Livemike on Aug 5, 2009 7:09 PM
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For a start he claims that sociopathy is so rare and highly valued that it garners hundreds of millions of dollars, but his own figures put about 3 million sociopaths in america. Even assuming that only white male sociopaths need apply (and that destroys his contention that there is a competitive market) that still leaves at least 750,000 potential applicants. None of them would work for less that $10m?
This is not however the most rediculous part of his story, although if it was that would still sink it. No the most rediculous part is the insistence that you need sociopaths to run layoffs, when in fact you don't even need them to run torture rooms. Google "Stamford prison experiment" or "milgram experiment" if you're really that ignorant. Not to mention plenty of non-sociopaths refuse to pay people who's services they don't want every day, including the author.
Of course the best test of this idea that high CEO prices result from them having a needed skill set is CEOs that don't have a needed skill set. There are enough of these to form a statisically valid sample (god are there enough of them). We find that plenty of these people are getting paid big bucks for driving their companies into the ground. Whatever value there is in being able to "sack your own mother while whistling showtunes" (Scott Adams) clearly it's not enough for these guys to be worth it. Yet they still get paid.
Another test is whether CEO pay is high in industries where widespread sacking people is likely. Until recently the finance industry had little reason to sack people and was indeed taking people on regardless of age, race, creed or even competence. Yet they had some of the highest CEO pay. Clearly the authors hypothesis conflicts with pretty much all the availible facts. So those of you who praised it, ask yourself why. Why did you jump on any theory, no matter how boneheaded that allowed you to think that people richer than you were richer because they were evil?
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