COMMENTS: 57
'Green Shoots' of Recovery? Don't Fall for the Media's Economic Triumphalism
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Amid the most painful period of economic turbulence in generations, a narrative has emerged that a handful of less-than-catastrophic economic reports represent the first "green shoots" of a healthy return to growth.
When a slew of absolutely depressing economic data were released in late May, economist Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, wrote: "these reports might have led to gloomy news stories, but... the media have obviously abandoned economic reporting and instead have adopted the role of cheerleader, touting whatever good news it can find and inventing good news when none can be found."
In other words, the green shoots narrative should be met with healthy skepticism. New York University economist Nouriel Roubini -- who earned the moniker "Doctor Doom" for correctly anticipating the crash -- says that rather than "green shoots," we're seeing some "yellow weeds" emerging from the cracks of our shattered system, and argues that there's every likelihood that a "recovery" will mean several years of sluggish, below-average growth for the industrialized economies.
Most economists do agree that extraordinarily aggressive interventions by our government and those of other key countries -- whatever criticism one may have of their specifics -- have averted, for the moment, the worst-case scenario: a deflationary "death spiral" in which people don't spend, firms lay off workers and state revenues dry up just when they're needed the most, causing yet more austerity and more downsizing.
But as New York Times' columnist Paul Krugman noted, those moves "make the conventionally minded uncomfortable, and they keep pushing for a return to normalcy." And there are a variety of stakeholders that have a vested interest in creating a perception that we're "returning to normalcy." Wall Street is trying to repay the government (but without letting the taxpayers off the hook for future losses) in order to escape limits on executive pay and other watery "conditions" attached to the public's largesse (Goldman Sachs' research department has been out front in shaping the green shoots narrative). The Obama administration is fending off conservative charges that his stimulus package -- of which only a small fraction has actually been spent in the four short months since Congress approved it -- is a failure. The Fed and other institutions are anxious about foreign investors' perceptions of the U.S. economy's overall health, and economic reporters and pundits are loath to admit that they've been sleeping with the fetid corpse of a dead economic paradigm known as Reaganomics.
Moreover, much of the business establishment has an interest in heading off any attempt to fundamentally transform the economy. After all, when things go south in the 21st century, the big fish are protected -- they get a bailout.
So we need to ask not only if a recovery is really over the horizon, but also what it might look like.
Structural Imbalances Remain
Consumer spending in the U.S. accounts for not only about 70 percent of American economic activity, but also about a sixth of the planet's. Gallup notes that consumer confidence is edging up -- thanks in part, no doubt, to all the talk of green shoots -- but (self-reported) consumer spending has plummeted by a whopping 41 percent compared to the same time last year.
This is the culmination of a long-term problem. Most people's wages have not been stagnant in recent years-- it's worse than that. For more than three decades the real incomes of all but those in the top 10 percent of the economic pile have actually declined.
We kept up our lifestyles, though -- first through massive numbers of women joining the workforce, and later by running deep into debt. That central economic disconnect has only accelerated with the recession.
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Posted by: mmckinl on Jun 22, 2009 12:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
States, counties, cities and schools are in big trouble, sales and income tax receipts are crashing. They will severely cut back services and employment ... Almost all these government entities have to balance their budget, the cuts will have to be made and made almost immediately ...
It's worse than you think Joshua ...
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» RE: You Missed Unemployment ... State, County... Deficiits
Posted by: richholland
» RE: You Missed Unemployment ... State, County... Deficiits
Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: You Missed Unemployment ... State, County... Deficiits
Posted by: visionsking
» RE: You Missed Unemployment ... State, County... Deficiits
Posted by: visionsking
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Posted by: davy on Jun 22, 2009 2:57 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Perry Logan on Jun 22, 2009 3:03 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It stands to reason that six years of Republican hegemony will have a terrible effect on public health.
The violent crime rate skyrocketed under Bush II--after going down for eight straight years under Bill Clinton.
Under Bush II, the infant mortality rate started to go up for the first time in 40 years (after reaching an all-time low under Clinton).
Bush's EPA was pro-pollution. Under their watch, pollution in the Great Lakes is on the rise.
They set a weaker standard for lead pollution in air, and for lead paint cleanup, than their independent scientific advisors recommended. If you multiply this decision times a million, you get a sense of what an unimaginable mess our environment must be in. With the corporate media reporting virtually nothing, we can only guess.
We will also need to take care of an unprecedented number of wounded soliders. The same advances in medical technolgy have saved lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. have also left us with many times more wounded to take care of than in any earlier war.
Then there's the brain damage from all the cell phones, but never mind...
So even if those green shoots were real, they'd find little sunlight. The Republicans have left us a sick nation--with no money and no healthcare system.
It's a piss-poor time to have the Worst Democrat Ever™ in the White House, but them's the breaks...
Rupert Murdoch in Pain
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» RE: Public health costs
Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Public health costs
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Public health costs
Posted by: HoboHomo
» Without human services funding, the streets of the U.S. should start to resemble those of Africa:
Posted by: and_abottleofrum
» RE: Without human services funding, the streets of the U.S. should start to resemble those of Africa:
Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Without human services funding, the streets of the U.S. should start to resemble those of Africa:
Posted by: red godowar
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Posted by: Moonray on Jun 22, 2009 3:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are recovering more quickly than the U.S. because, unlike the U.S., their treasuries were not looted by the very people who were supposed to be rescuing them. In the U.S. these were the same people who caused the financial disaster in the first place.
The higher gas prices will further drain the resources of businesses and the public sector in this country. All this is the upshot of the "extreme capitalism" that has shaped the U.S. for the past 30 years. It has destroyed our economy and turned our government into a cabal of gangsters who apparently can't make a minor policy change without obtaining the permission of their billionaire bosses. And the decisions they do make -- such as Obama's plan of issuing trillions of dollars in new debt -- are so compromised by corruption that they scarcely have an impact. Now the rest of the world is poised to move on without us. And America looks more and more like a banana republic every day.
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» Phantom wealth always runs to ground...
Posted by: jaynesian
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Posted by: JSquercia on Jun 22, 2009 4:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are told that jobs are a lagging indicator so even IF recovery occurs it doesn't help the unemployed . Even then as you pointed out there is the likely hood that those jobs will actually pay less .
I too am so tired of the media seeming to consider the Dow and Wall Street as the means of evaluating our economy .
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» Obama understates the jobless, as do all Presidents
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» Pls. see MSM/NPR/PBS for exactly what they are;
Posted by: weathered
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Posted by: johnwinthrop on Jun 22, 2009 4:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ben the Professorial Princetonian Printer has been shovelling worthless greenbacks into bank vaults for a year now; everybody from AIG to Goldman has been "given" money. (For this you need a Phd?). If money is a promise to pay by a bankrupt govt, we are flush with "wealth".
The problem is that those IOU's are largely held by foreigners-the Chinese, Koreans and Indians. They are not amused by our Smooth Leader and his Princeton/Harvard gang of "economists". (I've said before on Alternet-is there something wrong with state university or small private college graduates?) The Ivy League clique that screwed us about Vietnam, Iran, Iraq and Palestine has brilliantly stripped the richest nation on Earth of its wealth, except for an even narrower class of billionaires and investors than the rich-loving Bush mob.
The dollar will be dumped, and should be, as the world's reserve currency. Watch oil prices soar as the article notes. Watch the cost of our overseas bases explode(good, bring troops home). Watch the price of feeding your family and paying your rent or mortgage become impossible(oh, that is bad).
We may eventually put a few more folks back to work. But what will they receive as compensation? Tickets to a White Sox game? A free burger at Five Brothers? A Portugese Water Dog?
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Posted by: alexandra_hamilton on Jun 22, 2009 4:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This rip-off will go on until someone pulls the plug on Wall St.
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» End Unemployment: Make Everyone a Regulator
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: nd Unemployment: Make Everyone a Regulator
Posted by: alexandra_hamilton
» RE: There Is No Recovery - It Is an Illusion
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: sausage on Jun 22, 2009 5:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I mean, if the boss closes plants and fires workers doesn't that mean whatever marketing decisions he's made flopped? In a reality-based society shouldn't firing workers and closing manufacturing facilities be seen as a sign of failure?
Not in the United States, obviously.
Now these same conscienceless pricks are rewarding themselves for being incompetent morons with our money! For figuring out how to make shitpotsfull of money without having to actually make anything, these pricks have ruined an economy and none of'em are going to jail!
In fact three of'em are in the administration!
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» RE: I remember this crap from the Reagan years
Posted by: johnwinthrop
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on Jun 22, 2009 6:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"A state that dwarfs its men . . ."
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» RE: The reality - the future - is in fact appalling . . .
Posted by: lupuslefou
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Jun 22, 2009 6:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Threaten your existing workers with "right sizing" if they get too uppity. If they protest, just retort with " the economy is bad".
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» RE: If you're an employer---it is heaven on earth
Posted by: Changling
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Posted by: Growthbuster on Jun 22, 2009 7:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The future will be NOTHING like the past. Eventually we are going to have to embrace the end of growth...or else we'll just go down fighting.
Dave Gardner
Producing the documentary
Hooked on Growth: Our Misguided Quest for Prosperity
www.growthbusters.com
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» RE: Kill the Free Market Myth,
Posted by: marid
» RE: Ignoring the end of growth?
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: ellie on Jun 22, 2009 7:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
where only 40% of applicants for unemployment actually qualify in the first place for various reasons...
a few months ago, the yard signs for 'for sale' looked like little soldiers along the road... now about every 5th house is doing a great job growing weeds and dandelions...
one county around here is freaking out about mosquito containment costs due to standing water around abandoned properties... the county can't figure out who actually owns these homes to send them the bill... so county is making all owners pay higher tax to cover mosquito spraying not budgeted for...
apartment rentals are way down too... but not the rent... where are people going???
gonna get lots worse... fast...
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» RE: how the hell...
Posted by: richholland
» RE: how the hell...
Posted by: HoboHomo
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Posted by: sharonsylvie on Jun 22, 2009 7:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: frankly1 on Jun 22, 2009 8:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jun 22, 2009 8:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but it has nothing to do with the rest of the news which is not good. ANNA
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Posted by: Changling on Jun 22, 2009 9:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Things are so bad that besides the false job adverts, they do what they can to filter out as many job applicants before they apply! They will do anything to make it hard to even see them. No hope of anything. Also people at work will gladly have their pay reduced to keep their job. Also one person now doing 2+ jobs for the same pay. No overtime (gone way back in the 1990's) and little worker protections. The jobs aren't solid in any fashion, too many are short term contracts with no benefits. Whatever bad elements of a job you can think of it is offered in that way for the past 10 years or more.
I wonder if Mises, Hayek and Friedman are looking from the Ghost Zone and laughing in joy at our plight?
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Posted by: A. Servant on Jun 22, 2009 9:41 AM
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If you are tired of merely complaining about being enslaved and seeing others threatened with more enslavement, join us in Slaves Anonymous to make local changes to improve your security. You and your neighbors have the autonomy, creativity, diversity, potency and transcendence to become self-owners and create the conditions necessary for emancipation of your local community from the tyranny of colonization, corporatism, debt-based money, empire, eugenics, fascism, psychopathy, serfdom, slavery, or whatever-you-want-to-call-it. You can create ways that lead to less bondage and more humane treatment for your neighbors and yourselves. Solutions for the common man, woman, or child have been and forever will be grassroots ones that emerge organically from within each of us. Let's work together: You create solutions in your community; I'll create them in mine.
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License.
Read more about this ...
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Posted by: willymack on Jun 22, 2009 10:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There'll be enough of a "recovery" for the guvmint to declare an end to the crisis, and business as usual will continue on its self-destructive path, or
The whole rotten edifice will collapse, leaving almost everyone except those with golden parachutes destitute.
We're screwed either way, and will have to rebuild our society from scratch. Don't count on us doing it right because the bad guys will be there, biding their time.
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Posted by: BenL8 on Jun 22, 2009 10:44 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Public Jobs ???
Posted by: u2r1
» write you congressman?
Posted by: rafaeltoral
» RE: write you congressman?
Posted by: HoboHomo
» "Idle Wealthy Bank Accounts"???
Posted by: Sgellero
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Posted by: sirios on Jun 22, 2009 5:00 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: cori on Jun 22, 2009 6:45 PM
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AND WHAT IS OBAMA DOING FOR THE PEOPLE OF THIS NATION? PUTTING THE FEDS IN CHARGE OF WALL ST WHO IS BRIBING CONGRESS WITH OUR BAILOUT DOLLARS WHILE HALLIBURTON IS STILL GETTING BILLIONS AND WE ARE STILL SPENDING TEN’S OF BILLIONS ON FABRICATED WARS FOR PROFIT.
By Barry Eichengreen and Kevin O'Rourke
June 22, 2009
Comparing the Great Depression to now for the world, not just the US
This and most other commentary contrasting the two episodes compares America then and now. This, however, is a misleading picture. The Great Depression was a global phenomenon. Even if it originated, in some sense, in the US, it was transmitted internationally by trade flows, capital flows and commodity prices. That said, different countries were affected differently. The US is not representative of their experiences.
Our Great Recession is every bit as global, earlier hopes for decoupling in Asia and Europe notwithstanding. Increasingly there is awareness that events have taken an even uglier turn outside the US, with even larger falls in manufacturing production, exports and equity prices.
In fact, when we look globally, as in Figure 1, the decline in industrial production in the last nine months has been at least as severe as in the nine months following the 1929 peak. (All graphs in this column track behavior after the peaks in world industrial production, which occurred in June 1929 and April 2008.) Here, then, is a first illustration of how the global picture provides a very different and, indeed, more disturbing perspective than the US case considered by Krugman, which as noted earlier shows a smaller decline in manufacturing production now than then.
It's a Depression alright
To sum up, globally we are tracking or doing even worse than the Great Depression, whether the metric is industrial production, exports or equity valuations. Focusing on the US causes one to minimize this alarming fact. The "Great Recession" label may turn out to be too optimistic. This is a Depression-sized event.
That said, we are only one year into the current crisis, whereas after 1929 the world economy continued to shrink for three successive years. What matters now is that policy makers arrest the decline. We therefore turn to the policy response.
Policy responses: Then and now
Figure 4 shows a GDP-weighted average of central bank discount rates for 7 countries. As can be seen, in both crises there was a lag of five or six months before discount rates responded to the passing of the peak, although in the present crisis rates have been cut more rapidly and from a lower level. There is more at work here than simply the difference between George Harrison and Ben Bernanke. The central bank response has differed globally.
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Posted by: Sgellero on Jun 22, 2009 7:42 PM
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Mr. Holland........you need to study Austrian Economics and sound money a bit more.
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Posted by: emccready on Jun 22, 2009 8:18 PM
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..... so you will hear every month some of this crap which tries to make things upbeat and you should all discount it.... The media however should be questioning these positive statments every step of the way.
Oh really? Unemployment claims went down? maybe briefly but just wait until the June numbers hit with all the teachers laid off in California alone! And you can bet your life it is not yet hit bottom....no matter what lies these people tell!
California has the highest unemployment maybe ever and we are in recovery??? Bull!!!
Who is in recovery??? The Banks and Insurance companies who Obama is giving everything too and nothing to the public in the form of lower mortgages... no appeals yet to greedy landlords to lower rents to acceptable levels to keep people in their homes....and a possible screw-the-US-public deal with the evil Insurance Companies to once again rip off the public and government with mismanaging of healthcare, who once again will decide who has enough money to deserve to live and who should die.
We have to keep pummeling Obama and all the bought and paid for rich, publicly (that is paid for by you and me taxpayers!)and generously insured Representatives and Senators and other politicians until WE get EXACTLY what WE WANT and need for a change. Send emails daily...faxes too. Rangel's office received over 8,500 in one day and some fax machines even broke down. Do that to every person you can reach from your district/State. Tell them we will vote their fat carcasses out of office...every one of them if necessary!!!
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Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Jun 22, 2009 10:41 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These are a laundry list of recurring symptoms NOT causes.
In other words, no mention of the fact the economy – and therefore the nation -is run by a private bank monopoly better known as the “Federal Reserve” Corp. that creates ersatz counterfeit credit out of thin air in trade for real public debt and exclusive ruling class banking privilege. Not a word about the fact the elite global banking industry that created the meltdown at profit regulates its own toxic misdeeds through what amounts to a “FED” extortion racket.
It’s called organized corporate crime.
Of course private oligarchs in charge of the national economy, government and media organs may not be the only pathology behind the madness of endless faux “war on terror” under perpetual Wall Street Bailouts with all the rest. But that reality is certainly enough to make Fascism a real and present psychosis.
Upshot: this Alternet story is devoid of the practical reality it pretends to offer. It’s about as useless a decoy as the Obama regime and the one before it.
In 1913, the money power of the country was taken away from the people. By constitutional privilege it belongs with the Congress, but it was given up in the Federal Reserve Act. The Federal Reserve is no more Federal than Federal Express. But yet it has the power to determine the direction and use of money in our economy. If we could take that power back and put the Federal Reserve under Treasury, we start to be in a position of being able to control monetary policy on behalf of the United States people.
Congressman Dennis Kucinich (former Presidential candidate at Congress C-Span January 9th, 2009)
“Over time whoever controls the money system controls the nation.”
Stephen Zarlenga (Director American Monetary Institute)
“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the government of the U.S. ever since the days of Andrew Jackson.”
President FDR (on de facto Fascist rule in a letter to corporate monopoly charlatan “Colonel” Edward M. House, co-founder of the Council on Foreign Relations and political fixer for the ruling class. House also handled President Wilson. 11/21/ l933 from the book "F.D.R.: His Personal Letters" - New York: Duell, Sloan and Pearce 1950)
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Posted by: lorenbliss on Jun 23, 2009 12:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let’s assume for the sake of argument the ruling class recognized the onset of terminal climate change and petroleum bankruptcy years before such knowledge trickled down to the general public. For example the mathematical construct known as Hubbert’s Curve -- so-called “Peak Oil” -- has been known since 1956, which means the prerequisite research began long before. The greenhouse effect -- the cause of global warming -- was discovered and quantified in the 19th Century. Which makes it legitimate to ask for how long -- and to what extent -- U.S. policy has been shaped by ruling-class awareness we live in the looming shadow of a double apocalypse so devastating it has no precedent in human experience.
President Richard Nixon’s largely forgotten declaration of war on the U.S. working class in early 1974 gives us an important clue. Interviewed by William Randolph Hearst Jr. for Hearst Newspapers, Nixon astounded Hearst by stating that the average worker was entirely too pampered and that federal policy would be reshaped to deliberately increase domestic hardship. This interview was published on Page One of every Hearst newspaper within days of Nixon’s second inauguration but has since vanished down the Orwell hole. Nevertheless the fact that (save for high-tech industries) the last year U.S. workers got a real raise was 1973 -- raise defined as an increase in disposable income -- proves beyond any doubt Nixon was speaking for the ruling class.
The only possible explanation for such a radical shift in domestic policy so long before the death of communism is that the (hereditary) corporate aristocracy recognized the forthcoming eco/petro crisis and so began the hoarding, looting and suppression of liberty by which it hopes to amass sufficient wealth and power to ensure its survival.
Subsequent events -- union-busting, methodical destruction of community, nullification of the Constitution, conversion of the Presidency to an imperial despotism, draining of economic resources -- all substantiate this Occam’s Razor estimate. Especially damning evidence is provided by the withdrawal of funds that is destroying the U.S. newspaper and publishing industries. These are not economic accidents: like public schools that methodically promote illiteracy and ignorance, the destruction of these industries are deliberate contractions of the information flow. Money is not ephemeral; it is a tangible, zero-sum commodity. As with the money looted from the economy at large, dollars withdrawn from newspapers and publishing houses are merely moved elsewhere.
It is important to remember -- as objective analysis demands -- that the real ruling class is so inconceivably wealthy, it is beyond reach of economic fluctuations. Thus it is also legitimate to ask where these aristocrats are hiding the money they are draining from the economy in the guise of “recession” -- a question the capitalist economists dare not address and about which socialist economists can only speculate. Meanwhile Nixon’s 1974 declaration indicates the economic hardship we have suffered ever since is an attack by economic vampires that will end only when the U.S. has been sucked dry of its liquid assets, reduced to a withered (Third World) corpse and abandoned. Which means that for those of us in the working class, there will be no recovery -- not now not ever -- and that to imagine otherwise is utter folly.
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» 90% Stubborn BS, 10% clueless statistics ( if that )
Posted by: PointMan
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Posted by: vetus schola on Jun 23, 2009 10:53 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One of the things on the chopping block is public library funding. My county will lose all of its branches if this goes through, decreasing information access for many rural people with no money for books or internet access.
http://www.olc.org/SaveOhioLibraries.asp
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» your county
Posted by: Sgellero
» RE: your county
Posted by: HoboHomo
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Posted by: mmckinl on Jun 22, 2009 12:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
States, counties, cities and schools are in big trouble, sales and income tax receipts are crashing. They will severely cut back services and employment ... Almost all these government entities have to balance their budget, the cuts will have to be made and made almost immediately ...
It's worse than you think Joshua ...
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» RE: You Missed Unemployment ... State, County... Deficiits
Posted by: richholland
» RE: You Missed Unemployment ... State, County... Deficiits
Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: You Missed Unemployment ... State, County... Deficiits
Posted by: visionsking
» RE: You Missed Unemployment ... State, County... Deficiits
Posted by: visionsking
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Posted by: davy on Jun 22, 2009 2:57 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Perry Logan on Jun 22, 2009 3:03 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It stands to reason that six years of Republican hegemony will have a terrible effect on public health.
The violent crime rate skyrocketed under Bush II--after going down for eight straight years under Bill Clinton.
Under Bush II, the infant mortality rate started to go up for the first time in 40 years (after reaching an all-time low under Clinton).
Bush's EPA was pro-pollution. Under their watch, pollution in the Great Lakes is on the rise.
They set a weaker standard for lead pollution in air, and for lead paint cleanup, than their independent scientific advisors recommended. If you multiply this decision times a million, you get a sense of what an unimaginable mess our environment must be in. With the corporate media reporting virtually nothing, we can only guess.
We will also need to take care of an unprecedented number of wounded soliders. The same advances in medical technolgy have saved lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. have also left us with many times more wounded to take care of than in any earlier war.
Then there's the brain damage from all the cell phones, but never mind...
So even if those green shoots were real, they'd find little sunlight. The Republicans have left us a sick nation--with no money and no healthcare system.
It's a piss-poor time to have the Worst Democrat Ever™ in the White House, but them's the breaks...
Rupert Murdoch in Pain
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» RE: Public health costs
Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Public health costs
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Public health costs
Posted by: HoboHomo
» Without human services funding, the streets of the U.S. should start to resemble those of Africa:
Posted by: and_abottleofrum
» RE: Without human services funding, the streets of the U.S. should start to resemble those of Africa:
Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Without human services funding, the streets of the U.S. should start to resemble those of Africa:
Posted by: red godowar
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Posted by: Moonray on Jun 22, 2009 3:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are recovering more quickly than the U.S. because, unlike the U.S., their treasuries were not looted by the very people who were supposed to be rescuing them. In the U.S. these were the same people who caused the financial disaster in the first place.
The higher gas prices will further drain the resources of businesses and the public sector in this country. All this is the upshot of the "extreme capitalism" that has shaped the U.S. for the past 30 years. It has destroyed our economy and turned our government into a cabal of gangsters who apparently can't make a minor policy change without obtaining the permission of their billionaire bosses. And the decisions they do make -- such as Obama's plan of issuing trillions of dollars in new debt -- are so compromised by corruption that they scarcely have an impact. Now the rest of the world is poised to move on without us. And America looks more and more like a banana republic every day.
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» Phantom wealth always runs to ground...
Posted by: jaynesian
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Posted by: JSquercia on Jun 22, 2009 4:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are told that jobs are a lagging indicator so even IF recovery occurs it doesn't help the unemployed . Even then as you pointed out there is the likely hood that those jobs will actually pay less .
I too am so tired of the media seeming to consider the Dow and Wall Street as the means of evaluating our economy .
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» Obama understates the jobless, as do all Presidents
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» Pls. see MSM/NPR/PBS for exactly what they are;
Posted by: weathered
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Posted by: johnwinthrop on Jun 22, 2009 4:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ben the Professorial Princetonian Printer has been shovelling worthless greenbacks into bank vaults for a year now; everybody from AIG to Goldman has been "given" money. (For this you need a Phd?). If money is a promise to pay by a bankrupt govt, we are flush with "wealth".
The problem is that those IOU's are largely held by foreigners-the Chinese, Koreans and Indians. They are not amused by our Smooth Leader and his Princeton/Harvard gang of "economists". (I've said before on Alternet-is there something wrong with state university or small private college graduates?) The Ivy League clique that screwed us about Vietnam, Iran, Iraq and Palestine has brilliantly stripped the richest nation on Earth of its wealth, except for an even narrower class of billionaires and investors than the rich-loving Bush mob.
The dollar will be dumped, and should be, as the world's reserve currency. Watch oil prices soar as the article notes. Watch the cost of our overseas bases explode(good, bring troops home). Watch the price of feeding your family and paying your rent or mortgage become impossible(oh, that is bad).
We may eventually put a few more folks back to work. But what will they receive as compensation? Tickets to a White Sox game? A free burger at Five Brothers? A Portugese Water Dog?
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Posted by: alexandra_hamilton on Jun 22, 2009 4:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This rip-off will go on until someone pulls the plug on Wall St.
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» End Unemployment: Make Everyone a Regulator
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: nd Unemployment: Make Everyone a Regulator
Posted by: alexandra_hamilton
» RE: There Is No Recovery - It Is an Illusion
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: sausage on Jun 22, 2009 5:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I mean, if the boss closes plants and fires workers doesn't that mean whatever marketing decisions he's made flopped? In a reality-based society shouldn't firing workers and closing manufacturing facilities be seen as a sign of failure?
Not in the United States, obviously.
Now these same conscienceless pricks are rewarding themselves for being incompetent morons with our money! For figuring out how to make shitpotsfull of money without having to actually make anything, these pricks have ruined an economy and none of'em are going to jail!
In fact three of'em are in the administration!
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» RE: I remember this crap from the Reagan years
Posted by: johnwinthrop
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on Jun 22, 2009 6:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"A state that dwarfs its men . . ."
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» RE: The reality - the future - is in fact appalling . . .
Posted by: lupuslefou
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Jun 22, 2009 6:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Threaten your existing workers with "right sizing" if they get too uppity. If they protest, just retort with " the economy is bad".
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» RE: If you're an employer---it is heaven on earth
Posted by: Changling
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Posted by: Growthbuster on Jun 22, 2009 7:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The future will be NOTHING like the past. Eventually we are going to have to embrace the end of growth...or else we'll just go down fighting.
Dave Gardner
Producing the documentary
Hooked on Growth: Our Misguided Quest for Prosperity
www.growthbusters.com
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» RE: Kill the Free Market Myth,
Posted by: marid
» RE: Ignoring the end of growth?
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: ellie on Jun 22, 2009 7:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
where only 40% of applicants for unemployment actually qualify in the first place for various reasons...
a few months ago, the yard signs for 'for sale' looked like little soldiers along the road... now about every 5th house is doing a great job growing weeds and dandelions...
one county around here is freaking out about mosquito containment costs due to standing water around abandoned properties... the county can't figure out who actually owns these homes to send them the bill... so county is making all owners pay higher tax to cover mosquito spraying not budgeted for...
apartment rentals are way down too... but not the rent... where are people going???
gonna get lots worse... fast...
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» RE: how the hell...
Posted by: richholland
» RE: how the hell...
Posted by: HoboHomo
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Posted by: sharonsylvie on Jun 22, 2009 7:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: frankly1 on Jun 22, 2009 8:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jun 22, 2009 8:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but it has nothing to do with the rest of the news which is not good. ANNA
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Posted by: Changling on Jun 22, 2009 9:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Things are so bad that besides the false job adverts, they do what they can to filter out as many job applicants before they apply! They will do anything to make it hard to even see them. No hope of anything. Also people at work will gladly have their pay reduced to keep their job. Also one person now doing 2+ jobs for the same pay. No overtime (gone way back in the 1990's) and little worker protections. The jobs aren't solid in any fashion, too many are short term contracts with no benefits. Whatever bad elements of a job you can think of it is offered in that way for the past 10 years or more.
I wonder if Mises, Hayek and Friedman are looking from the Ghost Zone and laughing in joy at our plight?
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Posted by: A. Servant on Jun 22, 2009 9:41 AM
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If you are tired of merely complaining about being enslaved and seeing others threatened with more enslavement, join us in Slaves Anonymous to make local changes to improve your security. You and your neighbors have the autonomy, creativity, diversity, potency and transcendence to become self-owners and create the conditions necessary for emancipation of your local community from the tyranny of colonization, corporatism, debt-based money, empire, eugenics, fascism, psychopathy, serfdom, slavery, or whatever-you-want-to-call-it. You can create ways that lead to less bondage and more humane treatment for your neighbors and yourselves. Solutions for the common man, woman, or child have been and forever will be grassroots ones that emerge organically from within each of us. Let's work together: You create solutions in your community; I'll create them in mine.
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License.
Read more about this ...
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Posted by: willymack on Jun 22, 2009 10:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There'll be enough of a "recovery" for the guvmint to declare an end to the crisis, and business as usual will continue on its self-destructive path, or
The whole rotten edifice will collapse, leaving almost everyone except those with golden parachutes destitute.
We're screwed either way, and will have to rebuild our society from scratch. Don't count on us doing it right because the bad guys will be there, biding their time.
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Posted by: BenL8 on Jun 22, 2009 10:44 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Public Jobs ???
Posted by: u2r1
» write you congressman?
Posted by: rafaeltoral
» RE: write you congressman?
Posted by: HoboHomo
» "Idle Wealthy Bank Accounts"???
Posted by: Sgellero
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Posted by: sirios on Jun 22, 2009 5:00 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: cori on Jun 22, 2009 6:45 PM
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AND WHAT IS OBAMA DOING FOR THE PEOPLE OF THIS NATION? PUTTING THE FEDS IN CHARGE OF WALL ST WHO IS BRIBING CONGRESS WITH OUR BAILOUT DOLLARS WHILE HALLIBURTON IS STILL GETTING BILLIONS AND WE ARE STILL SPENDING TEN’S OF BILLIONS ON FABRICATED WARS FOR PROFIT.
By Barry Eichengreen and Kevin O'Rourke
June 22, 2009
Comparing the Great Depression to now for the world, not just the US
This and most other commentary contrasting the two episodes compares America then and now. This, however, is a misleading picture. The Great Depression was a global phenomenon. Even if it originated, in some sense, in the US, it was transmitted internationally by trade flows, capital flows and commodity prices. That said, different countries were affected differently. The US is not representative of their experiences.
Our Great Recession is every bit as global, earlier hopes for decoupling in Asia and Europe notwithstanding. Increasingly there is awareness that events have taken an even uglier turn outside the US, with even larger falls in manufacturing production, exports and equity prices.
In fact, when we look globally, as in Figure 1, the decline in industrial production in the last nine months has been at least as severe as in the nine months following the 1929 peak. (All graphs in this column track behavior after the peaks in world industrial production, which occurred in June 1929 and April 2008.) Here, then, is a first illustration of how the global picture provides a very different and, indeed, more disturbing perspective than the US case considered by Krugman, which as noted earlier shows a smaller decline in manufacturing production now than then.
It's a Depression alright
To sum up, globally we are tracking or doing even worse than the Great Depression, whether the metric is industrial production, exports or equity valuations. Focusing on the US causes one to minimize this alarming fact. The "Great Recession" label may turn out to be too optimistic. This is a Depression-sized event.
That said, we are only one year into the current crisis, whereas after 1929 the world economy continued to shrink for three successive years. What matters now is that policy makers arrest the decline. We therefore turn to the policy response.
Policy responses: Then and now
Figure 4 shows a GDP-weighted average of central bank discount rates for 7 countries. As can be seen, in both crises there was a lag of five or six months before discount rates responded to the passing of the peak, although in the present crisis rates have been cut more rapidly and from a lower level. There is more at work here than simply the difference between George Harrison and Ben Bernanke. The central bank response has differed globally.
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Posted by: Sgellero on Jun 22, 2009 7:42 PM
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Mr. Holland........you need to study Austrian Economics and sound money a bit more.
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Posted by: emccready on Jun 22, 2009 8:18 PM
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..... so you will hear every month some of this crap which tries to make things upbeat and you should all discount it.... The media however should be questioning these positive statments every step of the way.
Oh really? Unemployment claims went down? maybe briefly but just wait until the June numbers hit with all the teachers laid off in California alone! And you can bet your life it is not yet hit bottom....no matter what lies these people tell!
California has the highest unemployment maybe ever and we are in recovery??? Bull!!!
Who is in recovery??? The Banks and Insurance companies who Obama is giving everything too and nothing to the public in the form of lower mortgages... no appeals yet to greedy landlords to lower rents to acceptable levels to keep people in their homes....and a possible screw-the-US-public deal with the evil Insurance Companies to once again rip off the public and government with mismanaging of healthcare, who once again will decide who has enough money to deserve to live and who should die.
We have to keep pummeling Obama and all the bought and paid for rich, publicly (that is paid for by you and me taxpayers!)and generously insured Representatives and Senators and other politicians until WE get EXACTLY what WE WANT and need for a change. Send emails daily...faxes too. Rangel's office received over 8,500 in one day and some fax machines even broke down. Do that to every person you can reach from your district/State. Tell them we will vote their fat carcasses out of office...every one of them if necessary!!!
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Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Jun 22, 2009 10:41 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These are a laundry list of recurring symptoms NOT causes.
In other words, no mention of the fact the economy – and therefore the nation -is run by a private bank monopoly better known as the “Federal Reserve” Corp. that creates ersatz counterfeit credit out of thin air in trade for real public debt and exclusive ruling class banking privilege. Not a word about the fact the elite global banking industry that created the meltdown at profit regulates its own toxic misdeeds through what amounts to a “FED” extortion racket.
It’s called organized corporate crime.
Of course private oligarchs in charge of the national economy, government and media organs may not be the only pathology behind the madness of endless faux “war on terror” under perpetual Wall Street Bailouts with all the rest. But that reality is certainly enough to make Fascism a real and present psychosis.
Upshot: this Alternet story is devoid of the practical reality it pretends to offer. It’s about as useless a decoy as the Obama regime and the one before it.
In 1913, the money power of the country was taken away from the people. By constitutional privilege it belongs with the Congress, but it was given up in the Federal Reserve Act. The Federal Reserve is no more Federal than Federal Express. But yet it has the power to determine the direction and use of money in our economy. If we could take that power back and put the Federal Reserve under Treasury, we start to be in a position of being able to control monetary policy on behalf of the United States people.
Congressman Dennis Kucinich (former Presidential candidate at Congress C-Span January 9th, 2009)
“Over time whoever controls the money system controls the nation.”
Stephen Zarlenga (Director American Monetary Institute)
“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the government of the U.S. ever since the days of Andrew Jackson.”
President FDR (on de facto Fascist rule in a letter to corporate monopoly charlatan “Colonel” Edward M. House, co-founder of the Council on Foreign Relations and political fixer for the ruling class. House also handled President Wilson. 11/21/ l933 from the book "F.D.R.: His Personal Letters" - New York: Duell, Sloan and Pearce 1950)
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Posted by: lorenbliss on Jun 23, 2009 12:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let’s assume for the sake of argument the ruling class recognized the onset of terminal climate change and petroleum bankruptcy years before such knowledge trickled down to the general public. For example the mathematical construct known as Hubbert’s Curve -- so-called “Peak Oil” -- has been known since 1956, which means the prerequisite research began long before. The greenhouse effect -- the cause of global warming -- was discovered and quantified in the 19th Century. Which makes it legitimate to ask for how long -- and to what extent -- U.S. policy has been shaped by ruling-class awareness we live in the looming shadow of a double apocalypse so devastating it has no precedent in human experience.
President Richard Nixon’s largely forgotten declaration of war on the U.S. working class in early 1974 gives us an important clue. Interviewed by William Randolph Hearst Jr. for Hearst Newspapers, Nixon astounded Hearst by stating that the average worker was entirely too pampered and that federal policy would be reshaped to deliberately increase domestic hardship. This interview was published on Page One of every Hearst newspaper within days of Nixon’s second inauguration but has since vanished down the Orwell hole. Nevertheless the fact that (save for high-tech industries) the last year U.S. workers got a real raise was 1973 -- raise defined as an increase in disposable income -- proves beyond any doubt Nixon was speaking for the ruling class.
The only possible explanation for such a radical shift in domestic policy so long before the death of communism is that the (hereditary) corporate aristocracy recognized the forthcoming eco/petro crisis and so began the hoarding, looting and suppression of liberty by which it hopes to amass sufficient wealth and power to ensure its survival.
Subsequent events -- union-busting, methodical destruction of community, nullification of the Constitution, conversion of the Presidency to an imperial despotism, draining of economic resources -- all substantiate this Occam’s Razor estimate. Especially damning evidence is provided by the withdrawal of funds that is destroying the U.S. newspaper and publishing industries. These are not economic accidents: like public schools that methodically promote illiteracy and ignorance, the destruction of these industries are deliberate contractions of the information flow. Money is not ephemeral; it is a tangible, zero-sum commodity. As with the money looted from the economy at large, dollars withdrawn from newspapers and publishing houses are merely moved elsewhere.
It is important to remember -- as objective analysis demands -- that the real ruling class is so inconceivably wealthy, it is beyond reach of economic fluctuations. Thus it is also legitimate to ask where these aristocrats are hiding the money they are draining from the economy in the guise of “recession” -- a question the capitalist economists dare not address and about which socialist economists can only speculate. Meanwhile Nixon’s 1974 declaration indicates the economic hardship we have suffered ever since is an attack by economic vampires that will end only when the U.S. has been sucked dry of its liquid assets, reduced to a withered (Third World) corpse and abandoned. Which means that for those of us in the working class, there will be no recovery -- not now not ever -- and that to imagine otherwise is utter folly.
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» 90% Stubborn BS, 10% clueless statistics ( if that )
Posted by: PointMan
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Posted by: vetus schola on Jun 23, 2009 10:53 AM
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One of the things on the chopping block is public library funding. My county will lose all of its branches if this goes through, decreasing information access for many rural people with no money for books or internet access.
http://www.olc.org/SaveOhioLibraries.asp
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» your county
Posted by: Sgellero
» RE: your county
Posted by: HoboHomo
Tax the Corporations and the Rich or Take Draconian Cuts -- the Decision Is Ours
Fury at Wall St. Banks Fuels Public Action for Move Your Money Campaign
Why Congress Wants You to Shun Your Local Bookstore and Shop at Amazon Instead




