COMMENTS: 66
Geithner and Summers Want More Debt Bubbles: The Result Could Be Catastrophic
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"Everything predicted by the enemies of banks, in the beginning, is now coming to pass. We are to be ruined now by the deluge of bank paper. It is cruel that such revolutions in private fortunes should be at the mercy of avaricious adventurers, who, instead of employing their capital, if any they have, in manufactures, commerce, and other useful pursuits, make it an instrument to burden all the interchanges of property with their swindling profits, profits which are the price of no useful industry of theirs."
--Thomas Jefferson letter to Thomas Cooper, 1814.
Are we standing at the edge of a Great Inflation (like Weimar Germany), a second Republican Great Depression, or a return to the middle class prosperity of the Roosevelt/Eisenhower New Deal era? Until Americans understand the difference between "money" and "debt," odds are its going to be one of the first two, at least over the next few years.
Money
"Money" is a convenient replacement for barter in an economy. Instead of my giving you five pounds of carrots, so you wash my car, then you trade the carrots for a new shirt, and the clothing store then trades the carrots to a trucker that brings them their inventory, we all just agree to use a ten-dollar bill. Because a nation's money supply represents that nation's "wealth" -- the sum total of goods, services, and resources available in an economy/nation -- it needs to have a fixed value relative to the number/amount of goods, services, and resources within the nation.
As an economy grows -- more factories, more goods, more services -- the money supply grows so one dollar always represents the same number of carrots. (And with a fractional reserve banking system like we have, that growth is created mostly by banks lending money and creating it out of thin air in the process.)
If the money supply contracts, or grows slower than the economy, then we experience deflation -- the value of money increases, goods and services become less expensive (fewer dollars to buy the carrots), but because the value of money has increased it becomes harder to get. When this happens quickly, because of its economically destabilizing influence (businesses and people can't get current money -- cash -- or future money -- credit -- because money is more valuable), it's called a Depression.
On the other hand, if the money supply expands or grows faster than the economy, there are more dollars than there are goods and services so the number needed to buy a pound of carrots increases. This is inflation, and when it happens suddenly and on a large scale, it's called hyperinflation.
Therefore, one of the most important jobs overseen by Congress and executed by a Central Bank (or the Treasury Department if we were to go with the system envisioned by the Founders and Framers of the Constitution) is to "regulate the value" of our money (to quote Article I, Section 8.5 of our Constitution) by making sure the number of dollars in circulation always steadily tracks the size of the overall economy. If the economy grows 2%, then that year there should be 2% more dollars put into circulation. More than that will create inflation; fewer will create deflation.
Debt
"Debt" is not money. Instead, it's a charge against future money. But even though it's a charge against future money, it can still be spent as if it was today's money -- except that it must be repaid with interest. And therefore debt must have some sort of a balanced relationship to the total size of the economy -- albeit the future economy -- for it not to be destabilizing.
In other words, if over the next twenty years (the term of a typical and healthy mortgage) the economy is expected to grow by X percent or X number of dollars, then the total amount of twenty-year debts that can be issued should be limited to X. But if it's greater than X, then when the future arrives there won't be enough circulating money to repay the debt, because the economy (and the money supply) won't have grown as great as the debt repayment demand. The only two options are for debt holders to default (bankruptcies, foreclosures, etc. -- Depression), or for the government to suddenly increase the supply of money (inflation).
The same is true of one-year debt (credit cards), four -- or five-year debt (car loans, typically), and all other forms of debt. In aggregate, if the amount of debt is allowed to grow faster than the economy will grow over the term of the debt, when the debt is due there will be a problem, and if it's grown hugely, a disaster.
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Posted by: mmckinl on Apr 16, 2009 1:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In this way debt is contained and the US tax payer benefits by way of the US Treasury, from the use of their sovereign privilege, the creation of currency and credit.
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» RE: Could Be Catastrophic
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Could Be Catastrophic
Posted by: villager1
» RE: xactly Right ...
Posted by: robbrian
» Geithner & Summers are consulting . .
Posted by: pete ess
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Posted by: DrBrian on Apr 16, 2009 1:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Some Experts!
Posted by: villager1
» I would give them the respect they deserve . . .
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: Some Experts!
Posted by: Aquinas
» Yes, they knew what they were doing.
Posted by: DrBrian
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Posted by: Perry Logan on Apr 16, 2009 2:40 AM
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Posted by: Sports Warrior Casey Jones on Apr 16, 2009 3:10 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: And that's why a well-armed populace is needed when we got Wall Street motherfuckers in control.
Posted by: Aquinas
» RE: I really, really hope you're wrong.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: I really, really hope you're wrong.
Posted by: Aquinas
» You gun toting knuckleheads ever read the Smith Act?
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: You gun toting knuckleheads ever read the Smith Act?
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: You gun toting knuckleheads ever read the Smith Act?
Posted by: Aquinas
» Bizzarre logic
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» It's on the books, but it's powerless
Posted by: brunowe
» Hey, DC has the right to self-defense, not gun grabbing fascism.
Posted by: Sports Warrior Casey Jones
» RE: Hey, DC has the right to self-defense, not gun grabbing fascism.
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Hey, DC has the right to self-defense, not gun grabbing fascism.
Posted by: Sports Warrior Casey Jones
» RE: Hey, DC has the right to self-defense, not gun grabbing fascism.
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Hey, this guy can be your poster child
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Check the decision
Posted by: ReallyBearish
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Posted by: jaynesian on Apr 16, 2009 3:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whenever money is "lent into existence" infinitely, that is, based upon greed rather than need, it always ends up driving up rents and land prices, until nobody, not the poor farmer nor the city slum dweller nor the Park Avenue attorney, can literally afford the ground under their feet. When it all crashes, millions are needlessly ruined and displaced.
Most if not all of the horrendous "panics" and "depressions" Hartman alludes to throughout American history have featured real estate crashes at their festering cores.
Take for instance, the Panic of 1837, precipitated when Andrew Jackson broke up the Bank of the United States, and the money supply was put in the hands of state legislatures. The States promptly blew it all in a massive corrupt orgy of insider real-estate scams and "next big thing" swindles. It is extremely illuminating to hear our first deep Depression explained by Martin van Buren, who inherited the mess in his early weeks and was unfairly blamed. In his report to Congress he sounds in places positively Obamian:
”…our present condition is chiefly attributed to overaction in all the departments of business; an overaction…[leading to] excessive issues of bank paper, and other facilities for the acquisition and enlargement of credit. To this vast increase are to be added the many millions of credit, acquired by means of foreign loans, contracted by the States and State institutions, and above all, by the lavish accommodations extended by foreign dealers to our merchants.
“The consequences of this redundancy of credit and spirit of reckless speculation engendered by it, were, a foreign debt contracted by our citizens; the extension to traders in the interior of our country of credits for supplies, greatly beyond the wants of the people; the investment in unproductive public lands…the creation of debts, to an almost countless amount, for real estate in existing or anticipated towns and villages, equally unproductive, and at prices now seen to have been greatly disproportionate to their real value; the expenditure of immense sums in improvements found to be ruinously improvident [the "Canal to Nowhere"?]; the diversion to other pursuits of labor that should have gone to agriculture, thereby contributing to the expenditure of large sums in the importation of grain from Europe…and finally the rapid growth among all classes, especially in our great commercial towns, of luxurious habits, founded too often on merely fancied wealth, and detrimental alike to the industry, the resources, and the morals of our people.”
A final point. Hartmann also talks about Thos. Jefferson. It shouldn't be forgotten that Jefferson's over-riding concern in the Louisiana Purchase was not the expansion of Presidential power as we learned in school, though he wrestled with that. It was his agrarian impulse to preclude and check the concentration of wealth by landed interests, by making almost infinite acreage available for the natural increase of American family farmers, keeping them free of debt as the population expanded. (N.B. Jefferson was also in favor of limiting immigration. Of course that didn't happen, so it wasn't long before the population skyrocketed and the new Western acreage was bid up to bubble prices.)
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Posted by: weathered on Apr 16, 2009 3:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Shitcan Shapiro she's dirty, indict Schummer and bust up this cartel of criminality.
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» Goldman is crooked, not stupid
Posted by: ReallyBearish
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Posted by: warrior woman on Apr 16, 2009 4:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» I never thought of it that way
Posted by: nate
» RE: more right wing policy
Posted by: Aquinas
» RE: Of course.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» One bird, two right wings,
Posted by: Bliss Doubt
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Posted by: NthnBrazil on Apr 16, 2009 4:54 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Much better that housing becomes less valuable through inflation than through further price drops.
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» RE: Default.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» I should have been clearer
Posted by: NthnBrazil
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Posted by: joebhed on Apr 16, 2009 5:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have people like Hartmann, who are as progressive and independent as they come, yet all they can do is correctly rail against the current system.
When the F are they going to start some serious advocacy for the alternative of the public money system called for by Milton Friedman and the Chicago Plan economists, and bring the Greenback to the fore?
Why are klein, Krugman, Kuttner, Galbraith, Baker and Reich AFRAID to come out with the only real alternative money system that can actually pick up the pieces when the debt-money system is broke?
Why don't the progressive and populist economists have any courage, now, when it is needed?
Stop debating WHETHER debt is money, or credit is money, and call for the creation of REAL MONEY, debt-free at issue.
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» RE: vote mcc
Posted by: Aquinas
» RE: vote mcc
Posted by: robbrian
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Posted by: robertmc on Apr 16, 2009 6:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: xcellent Article
Posted by: Aquinas
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Posted by: wbblack on Apr 16, 2009 6:03 AM
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workingfertheman.com
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Posted by: Alcinor on Apr 16, 2009 6:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But, apparently even you a paragon of the left inteligensia is afraid of this most awful truth. I am speaking of course about the central role of the Federal Reserve Bank, which as you Must know, is as Federal as Federal Express!
As you know, it is not just "the banks" or Geitner, it is the Fed that engineered the coming 2nd Great Depression just like they did the First and all recessions since its founding in 1913 by a group of European bankers who owned Central Banks, including the Bank of England, throughout Europe.
I won't go on. I will just point to some references that people who want to know the truth about the Fed can refer to and, lamentably, perhaps you should too, Thom.
G.Edward Griffin, renowned American intellectual has just reissued his ground breaking expose of the Fed, "The Creature From Jekyl Island, A Second Look." In it he explains in detail, (over 600 pages)how the European Bankers took over America and essentially enslaved us.
Patrick Carmack has produced an absolutely frightening documentary video called "The Money Masters" which should be required viewing for Thom and every American who wants to get the real story of how the International Bankers came to control America. It is 3 and a 1/2 hours long! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936
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» RE: Thom, I am So disappointed!
Posted by: dmaciewski
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Apr 16, 2009 6:45 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are not magic wands to make everything Right with a wave of a hand. The shit is so far ingrained and wide spread, there is not easy solutions nor guarantees ANYTHING will Work.
Your Article is Remedial and lacks any serious step by step plan (not to mention any 'Bet my Life on it' guarantees)
If you have any recent education in Economics or Business- Your Tainted. You bear the 'mark' of the shit ass flavor of the Decades Economic theories which have plagued and stupified our Universities for the last 3 decades. Why the Hell would I listen to You now? Your 'Logic' Was beyond Flawed it was Lunacy and innately Treasonous, considering Our Founders Rejected 'Trickle Down' from their expereince with it under the Monarchy.
If you don't have a Economics or Business degree- you are even more handicapped because you understand even less about the system and it's pitfalls than the Assholes who constructed it.
The only Reason I have some trust in Geithner is because that Guy sees the Noose outside his window. Unlike Summers and some of the other Old Fucks who have the pleasure of thinking that one foot in the bucket will spare them prosecution or execution- Geithners got decades ahead of him. Plus doesn't he have small children? So he has a parental obligation to not screw over his kids, much like our President. He Looks in the eyes of the Future Generation every night when he goes home.
So being a Screaming ME ME about Economic Trolls is about as useful as hoping the Tooth fairy comes and Replaces your nest egg under your pillow.
Heres a little Remedial logic for you. The Rating agencies overrated Financial Corps, and their poroduct 'safty'. This opened the accounts of those 'safe' investments like Annuities, pensions to these recklessly addicted gamblers. Who's $1 do you think they leveraged those $40 off? Are you so naive as to think that $1 is still safely tucked under your pillow? So if it takes a bulldozer to fill in the trench left by the Heist of our retirment funds so be it. US middle lifers are going to need money in the future to offset the costs to the younger generation. If we're broke- they are going to be in serious shit. So we not only need to replenish those accounts- we need to re prime the pump so we can spend the next 30 yrs helping to pay down the deficit, incurred because of two illegal wars, Trickle Thefts, mounting Boomer Costs and derailed manufacturing revenue.Perhaps if we spend some now, we can not only shore back up those accounts with REAL money (allowing Us to support ourselve in Old age), but be able to generate an economy to help lift the burden off our kids.
So get over it- Your Retirement party will be held on the same day as your Wake!since the Boomers each generation has gotten smaller, Demographically this was going to be a problem- the Economic Treason committed by the Generation of Trickle Down economics only made it worse.
So unless we are willing to give up all forms of civilied society by ending tax & spend or We institute 'Logans Run' or 'Solent Green' this is going to be a clusterfuck no matter which ideas we follow. Your About 30 yrs too late Chicken little- the Sky was falling when Reagan Took the Oath and the Boomers moved into the Corner offices.
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» RE: Yikes tooth Fairies and Trolls
Posted by: wbblack
» RE: Having Children Does Not Deter Criminal Acts
Posted by: americansheep
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Posted by: Urgelt on Apr 16, 2009 6:57 AM
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Before the crash, we were a nation that imported goods and services and exported... nothing much, except dollars and dollar-denominated securities (debt). Certain other nations were contented with this arrangement; they accumulated trillions of dollars in currency and debt instruments and are holding them in their national reserves. China alone has over a trillion dollars and dollar-denominated securities (such as US Treasury Bills) in its reserves.
A dollar is a promise that you will be able to buy a good or a service with it. But what can those nations buy from us? We do not export much of anything except financial services. Our manufacturing infrastructure was wrecked, our infrastructure is deteriorating, our educational system relies on "teach to the test" rote memorization rather than instilling in kids a love of learning. All we have for sale is financial services.
And now it's starting to dawn on those countries who hold dollars and dollar-denominated securities that there is no way to redeem their holdings, except on US real estate or US corporations. With our real estate in free fall and our corporations cutting back or going bankrupt, why would they want to do that?
By cycling trillions and trillions of fraudulent securities into the financial system, then getting caught, Wall Street broke faith with their foreign customers. It will be a very long time before they are trusted again, and never unless there are assurances that US banks are no longer able to misrepresent their products.
Our political system has been captured by the very corporations who perpetrated this largest fraud in world history. There is no cop on the beat. Rather than bringing the criminals to justice, the US Government is taking on enormous new debt in an effort to prop them up, so they can... do what, exactly? They won't be exporting currency and debt instruments again. No credibility, no sale.
So as the Fed merrily gushes the money supply like never before, there is enormous downward pressure on the dollar's valuation against other currencies. It's got to drop. And when it does, those countries holding dollars in their reserves are going to take a bath.
Fear of that event may well trigger a currency panic. Once it starts, people won't be able to get rid of dollars fast enough.
To restore the credibility of our financial system and stabilize the dollar against downward pressure, we need to hammer those banks. Seize them. Cast sunshine on the books and provide transparency. Regulate. Prosecute misrepresentation (fraud).
We need to downsize Wall Street and be very careful about what we are doing with the money supply.
It will help if our Government looks like it isn't a wholly owned subsidiary of a criminal syndicate.
We'd better start seriously ramping up our ability to export goods and services, too. Otherwise, there will be nothing but hope to keep the dollar from plunging into the dirt.
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» The electorate voted for reinflating the bubble, Obama or Mccain.
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» RE: The electorate voted for reinflating the bubble, Obama or Mccain.
Posted by: Aquinas
» RE: The electorate voted for reinflating the bubble, Obama or Mccain.
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
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Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Apr 16, 2009 8:14 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: robbrian on Apr 16, 2009 10:28 AM
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He monitized the debt just as Hamilton showed 200 years ago. Congress can today rectify its error of delegating that function to the Fed by buying back its own bonds with newly-issued U.S. Notes.
It's what's being done right now by the Fed. The problem is that the Fed dosen't retire the bonds and therefore, foists upon the government and taxpayers the burden of paying interest on fiat money. Thus, we get bonds and cash where with the Congress in control we only have cash and no debt. The Government can buy back it's own bonds and void them.
There would be no inflationary pressure simply because the banks would not have the cash equivalent in bonds with which to operate it's fractional reserve ponzi scheme.
Now, who wants to tell Summers/Geithner how to resolve their scam?
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Posted by: solrev on Apr 16, 2009 10:58 AM
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Posted by: PaulK on Apr 16, 2009 11:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Money only has intrinsic value if it can be paid back. I'm never going to pay a trillion U.S. dollars back for my trillion dollar bill. Nor will anyone else, so the bill's only intrinsic value is its artwork.
Our government has borrowed and printed up 10 trillion dollars. If the U.S. government goes high tech and invents the world's cheapest biofuel and the world's cheapest photovoltaic panels, then the government has a legitimate chance of earning 10 trillion dollars back and paying off the borrowers. If, on the other hand, the government hands out all the research money to the usual fabulously wealthy dum-dums and they reinvent the horse, the government and its taxpayers will only be able to pay back 1 trillion.
Currently $1.30 will buy 1 euro. If the US can only pay back 1 trillion out of 10 trillion with hard goods and services, then $13.00 will buy 1 euro.
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» RE: I just printed out a trillion dollar bill on my printer
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
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Posted by: greatdanes on Apr 16, 2009 11:47 AM
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WHY do you think Main Street Media was So Up set with the Tea Parties?
Come On Guys....join not as a person on the right or the left but as Americans. If we UNITE we can Beat Back ALL of the EVILS we All SEE on the left or the Right side of any issue. Come Together and we Will WIN!.
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» RE: This was One of the Reasons for the TEA PARTIES
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» ON THE SAME MAIN STREET BUT NOT ON THE SAME PAGE
Posted by: americansheep
» Can We Unite for Freedom/ ON THE SAME MAIN STREET BUT NOT ON THE SAME PAGE
Posted by: greatdanes
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Posted by: tazdelaney on Apr 16, 2009 12:31 PM
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the obvious and simple fact is that the united states is not the generator of 1/4 of all the world's income (14/65ths) in a now-defunct but great magazine of the early 1990s, 'business tokyo,' and other sources, the total revenue-stream of the global illegal drug trade was estimated at $9trillion. a piece i read by a former major in the US army who also did work for DEA/CIA before retiring in repudiation of the whole drugwar as a vast cesspool of high-level corruption and hypocrisy; he claimed in the early part of this century that the drug trade was maintaining itself at roughly 3/4 that of the US GDP, which would put it at 11 bilion now.
as the dying italian high-finance expert michele sindona wrote in the 1980s, only the central banks could possibly handle that massive quantity of cash. he also explained how the entire illegal drug trade wound up feeding a single pyramidal cabal which violently disparages 'independents' like humboldt county pot-growers or anyone who seeks to thwart payment of profits to the major players in the global game. he went on to detail that the biggest players outside of the central banks were, of necessity, the world's most powerful governments.
in a matter of pages, sindona clarified the true background of the drugwar as one which reaps trillions yearly and also enables the increased political control of dissidents and 'undesirable' minorities. the racial disparity of drugwar prisoners in the usa is as bad as that of nazi germany or apartheid south africa. while blacks represent 15% of drug users; blacks represent 50% of drugwar prisoners; even though it has been shown that whites actually use proportionately more drugs per capita than blacks – they also have more money to pay lawyers and judges...
something else to consider
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Posted by: waterflaws on Apr 16, 2009 8:07 PM
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Posted by: yesman on Apr 16, 2009 8:37 PM
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Posted by: public takeover on Apr 17, 2009 9:12 AM
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If new people came in they could expose the extent of the deception and destruction.
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Posted by: cougars62960 on Apr 17, 2009 3:20 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I supported Obama, especially during the primary. One of the reasons for my not supporting Clinton was knowing that NYC would be asking for tax money. How did I know that economic crisis was on the horizon as early as 2005? I knew by getting news from financial blogs, not CNBC. Many blogs were warning of the housing bubble, though few thought we were headed for GD 2.0. I got out of the stock market long before it went bust. Then, I got out of the money market and into an fdic insured account a full year before the problems of fannie and freddie were publicized. Those that were screaming about impending doom were ignored by the corporate controlled MSM because there was lots of money to be made on the way up the debt-fueled bubbles.
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Posted by: mmckinl on Apr 16, 2009 1:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In this way debt is contained and the US tax payer benefits by way of the US Treasury, from the use of their sovereign privilege, the creation of currency and credit.
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» RE: Could Be Catastrophic
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Could Be Catastrophic
Posted by: villager1
» RE: xactly Right ...
Posted by: robbrian
» Geithner & Summers are consulting . .
Posted by: pete ess
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Posted by: DrBrian on Apr 16, 2009 1:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Some Experts!
Posted by: villager1
» I would give them the respect they deserve . . .
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: Some Experts!
Posted by: Aquinas
» Yes, they knew what they were doing.
Posted by: DrBrian
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Perry Logan on Apr 16, 2009 2:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Sports Warrior Casey Jones on Apr 16, 2009 3:10 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: And that's why a well-armed populace is needed when we got Wall Street motherfuckers in control.
Posted by: Aquinas
» RE: I really, really hope you're wrong.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: I really, really hope you're wrong.
Posted by: Aquinas
» You gun toting knuckleheads ever read the Smith Act?
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: You gun toting knuckleheads ever read the Smith Act?
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: You gun toting knuckleheads ever read the Smith Act?
Posted by: Aquinas
» Bizzarre logic
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» It's on the books, but it's powerless
Posted by: brunowe
» Hey, DC has the right to self-defense, not gun grabbing fascism.
Posted by: Sports Warrior Casey Jones
» RE: Hey, DC has the right to self-defense, not gun grabbing fascism.
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Hey, DC has the right to self-defense, not gun grabbing fascism.
Posted by: Sports Warrior Casey Jones
» RE: Hey, DC has the right to self-defense, not gun grabbing fascism.
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Hey, this guy can be your poster child
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Check the decision
Posted by: ReallyBearish
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jaynesian on Apr 16, 2009 3:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whenever money is "lent into existence" infinitely, that is, based upon greed rather than need, it always ends up driving up rents and land prices, until nobody, not the poor farmer nor the city slum dweller nor the Park Avenue attorney, can literally afford the ground under their feet. When it all crashes, millions are needlessly ruined and displaced.
Most if not all of the horrendous "panics" and "depressions" Hartman alludes to throughout American history have featured real estate crashes at their festering cores.
Take for instance, the Panic of 1837, precipitated when Andrew Jackson broke up the Bank of the United States, and the money supply was put in the hands of state legislatures. The States promptly blew it all in a massive corrupt orgy of insider real-estate scams and "next big thing" swindles. It is extremely illuminating to hear our first deep Depression explained by Martin van Buren, who inherited the mess in his early weeks and was unfairly blamed. In his report to Congress he sounds in places positively Obamian:
”…our present condition is chiefly attributed to overaction in all the departments of business; an overaction…[leading to] excessive issues of bank paper, and other facilities for the acquisition and enlargement of credit. To this vast increase are to be added the many millions of credit, acquired by means of foreign loans, contracted by the States and State institutions, and above all, by the lavish accommodations extended by foreign dealers to our merchants.
“The consequences of this redundancy of credit and spirit of reckless speculation engendered by it, were, a foreign debt contracted by our citizens; the extension to traders in the interior of our country of credits for supplies, greatly beyond the wants of the people; the investment in unproductive public lands…the creation of debts, to an almost countless amount, for real estate in existing or anticipated towns and villages, equally unproductive, and at prices now seen to have been greatly disproportionate to their real value; the expenditure of immense sums in improvements found to be ruinously improvident [the "Canal to Nowhere"?]; the diversion to other pursuits of labor that should have gone to agriculture, thereby contributing to the expenditure of large sums in the importation of grain from Europe…and finally the rapid growth among all classes, especially in our great commercial towns, of luxurious habits, founded too often on merely fancied wealth, and detrimental alike to the industry, the resources, and the morals of our people.”
A final point. Hartmann also talks about Thos. Jefferson. It shouldn't be forgotten that Jefferson's over-riding concern in the Louisiana Purchase was not the expansion of Presidential power as we learned in school, though he wrestled with that. It was his agrarian impulse to preclude and check the concentration of wealth by landed interests, by making almost infinite acreage available for the natural increase of American family farmers, keeping them free of debt as the population expanded. (N.B. Jefferson was also in favor of limiting immigration. Of course that didn't happen, so it wasn't long before the population skyrocketed and the new Western acreage was bid up to bubble prices.)
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Posted by: weathered on Apr 16, 2009 3:48 AM
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Shitcan Shapiro she's dirty, indict Schummer and bust up this cartel of criminality.
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» Goldman is crooked, not stupid
Posted by: ReallyBearish
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Posted by: warrior woman on Apr 16, 2009 4:15 AM
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» I never thought of it that way
Posted by: nate
» RE: more right wing policy
Posted by: Aquinas
» RE: Of course.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» One bird, two right wings,
Posted by: Bliss Doubt
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Posted by: NthnBrazil on Apr 16, 2009 4:54 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Much better that housing becomes less valuable through inflation than through further price drops.
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» RE: Default.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» I should have been clearer
Posted by: NthnBrazil
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Posted by: joebhed on Apr 16, 2009 5:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have people like Hartmann, who are as progressive and independent as they come, yet all they can do is correctly rail against the current system.
When the F are they going to start some serious advocacy for the alternative of the public money system called for by Milton Friedman and the Chicago Plan economists, and bring the Greenback to the fore?
Why are klein, Krugman, Kuttner, Galbraith, Baker and Reich AFRAID to come out with the only real alternative money system that can actually pick up the pieces when the debt-money system is broke?
Why don't the progressive and populist economists have any courage, now, when it is needed?
Stop debating WHETHER debt is money, or credit is money, and call for the creation of REAL MONEY, debt-free at issue.
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» RE: vote mcc
Posted by: Aquinas
» RE: vote mcc
Posted by: robbrian
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Posted by: robertmc on Apr 16, 2009 6:00 AM
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» RE: xcellent Article
Posted by: Aquinas
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Posted by: wbblack on Apr 16, 2009 6:03 AM
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workingfertheman.com
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Posted by: Alcinor on Apr 16, 2009 6:24 AM
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But, apparently even you a paragon of the left inteligensia is afraid of this most awful truth. I am speaking of course about the central role of the Federal Reserve Bank, which as you Must know, is as Federal as Federal Express!
As you know, it is not just "the banks" or Geitner, it is the Fed that engineered the coming 2nd Great Depression just like they did the First and all recessions since its founding in 1913 by a group of European bankers who owned Central Banks, including the Bank of England, throughout Europe.
I won't go on. I will just point to some references that people who want to know the truth about the Fed can refer to and, lamentably, perhaps you should too, Thom.
G.Edward Griffin, renowned American intellectual has just reissued his ground breaking expose of the Fed, "The Creature From Jekyl Island, A Second Look." In it he explains in detail, (over 600 pages)how the European Bankers took over America and essentially enslaved us.
Patrick Carmack has produced an absolutely frightening documentary video called "The Money Masters" which should be required viewing for Thom and every American who wants to get the real story of how the International Bankers came to control America. It is 3 and a 1/2 hours long! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936
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» RE: Thom, I am So disappointed!
Posted by: dmaciewski
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Apr 16, 2009 6:45 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are not magic wands to make everything Right with a wave of a hand. The shit is so far ingrained and wide spread, there is not easy solutions nor guarantees ANYTHING will Work.
Your Article is Remedial and lacks any serious step by step plan (not to mention any 'Bet my Life on it' guarantees)
If you have any recent education in Economics or Business- Your Tainted. You bear the 'mark' of the shit ass flavor of the Decades Economic theories which have plagued and stupified our Universities for the last 3 decades. Why the Hell would I listen to You now? Your 'Logic' Was beyond Flawed it was Lunacy and innately Treasonous, considering Our Founders Rejected 'Trickle Down' from their expereince with it under the Monarchy.
If you don't have a Economics or Business degree- you are even more handicapped because you understand even less about the system and it's pitfalls than the Assholes who constructed it.
The only Reason I have some trust in Geithner is because that Guy sees the Noose outside his window. Unlike Summers and some of the other Old Fucks who have the pleasure of thinking that one foot in the bucket will spare them prosecution or execution- Geithners got decades ahead of him. Plus doesn't he have small children? So he has a parental obligation to not screw over his kids, much like our President. He Looks in the eyes of the Future Generation every night when he goes home.
So being a Screaming ME ME about Economic Trolls is about as useful as hoping the Tooth fairy comes and Replaces your nest egg under your pillow.
Heres a little Remedial logic for you. The Rating agencies overrated Financial Corps, and their poroduct 'safty'. This opened the accounts of those 'safe' investments like Annuities, pensions to these recklessly addicted gamblers. Who's $1 do you think they leveraged those $40 off? Are you so naive as to think that $1 is still safely tucked under your pillow? So if it takes a bulldozer to fill in the trench left by the Heist of our retirment funds so be it. US middle lifers are going to need money in the future to offset the costs to the younger generation. If we're broke- they are going to be in serious shit. So we not only need to replenish those accounts- we need to re prime the pump so we can spend the next 30 yrs helping to pay down the deficit, incurred because of two illegal wars, Trickle Thefts, mounting Boomer Costs and derailed manufacturing revenue.Perhaps if we spend some now, we can not only shore back up those accounts with REAL money (allowing Us to support ourselve in Old age), but be able to generate an economy to help lift the burden off our kids.
So get over it- Your Retirement party will be held on the same day as your Wake!since the Boomers each generation has gotten smaller, Demographically this was going to be a problem- the Economic Treason committed by the Generation of Trickle Down economics only made it worse.
So unless we are willing to give up all forms of civilied society by ending tax & spend or We institute 'Logans Run' or 'Solent Green' this is going to be a clusterfuck no matter which ideas we follow. Your About 30 yrs too late Chicken little- the Sky was falling when Reagan Took the Oath and the Boomers moved into the Corner offices.
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» RE: Yikes tooth Fairies and Trolls
Posted by: wbblack
» RE: Having Children Does Not Deter Criminal Acts
Posted by: americansheep
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Posted by: Urgelt on Apr 16, 2009 6:57 AM
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Before the crash, we were a nation that imported goods and services and exported... nothing much, except dollars and dollar-denominated securities (debt). Certain other nations were contented with this arrangement; they accumulated trillions of dollars in currency and debt instruments and are holding them in their national reserves. China alone has over a trillion dollars and dollar-denominated securities (such as US Treasury Bills) in its reserves.
A dollar is a promise that you will be able to buy a good or a service with it. But what can those nations buy from us? We do not export much of anything except financial services. Our manufacturing infrastructure was wrecked, our infrastructure is deteriorating, our educational system relies on "teach to the test" rote memorization rather than instilling in kids a love of learning. All we have for sale is financial services.
And now it's starting to dawn on those countries who hold dollars and dollar-denominated securities that there is no way to redeem their holdings, except on US real estate or US corporations. With our real estate in free fall and our corporations cutting back or going bankrupt, why would they want to do that?
By cycling trillions and trillions of fraudulent securities into the financial system, then getting caught, Wall Street broke faith with their foreign customers. It will be a very long time before they are trusted again, and never unless there are assurances that US banks are no longer able to misrepresent their products.
Our political system has been captured by the very corporations who perpetrated this largest fraud in world history. There is no cop on the beat. Rather than bringing the criminals to justice, the US Government is taking on enormous new debt in an effort to prop them up, so they can... do what, exactly? They won't be exporting currency and debt instruments again. No credibility, no sale.
So as the Fed merrily gushes the money supply like never before, there is enormous downward pressure on the dollar's valuation against other currencies. It's got to drop. And when it does, those countries holding dollars in their reserves are going to take a bath.
Fear of that event may well trigger a currency panic. Once it starts, people won't be able to get rid of dollars fast enough.
To restore the credibility of our financial system and stabilize the dollar against downward pressure, we need to hammer those banks. Seize them. Cast sunshine on the books and provide transparency. Regulate. Prosecute misrepresentation (fraud).
We need to downsize Wall Street and be very careful about what we are doing with the money supply.
It will help if our Government looks like it isn't a wholly owned subsidiary of a criminal syndicate.
We'd better start seriously ramping up our ability to export goods and services, too. Otherwise, there will be nothing but hope to keep the dollar from plunging into the dirt.
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» The electorate voted for reinflating the bubble, Obama or Mccain.
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» RE: The electorate voted for reinflating the bubble, Obama or Mccain.
Posted by: Aquinas
» RE: The electorate voted for reinflating the bubble, Obama or Mccain.
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
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Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Apr 16, 2009 8:14 AM
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Posted by: robbrian on Apr 16, 2009 10:28 AM
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He monitized the debt just as Hamilton showed 200 years ago. Congress can today rectify its error of delegating that function to the Fed by buying back its own bonds with newly-issued U.S. Notes.
It's what's being done right now by the Fed. The problem is that the Fed dosen't retire the bonds and therefore, foists upon the government and taxpayers the burden of paying interest on fiat money. Thus, we get bonds and cash where with the Congress in control we only have cash and no debt. The Government can buy back it's own bonds and void them.
There would be no inflationary pressure simply because the banks would not have the cash equivalent in bonds with which to operate it's fractional reserve ponzi scheme.
Now, who wants to tell Summers/Geithner how to resolve their scam?
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Posted by: solrev on Apr 16, 2009 10:58 AM
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Posted by: PaulK on Apr 16, 2009 11:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Money only has intrinsic value if it can be paid back. I'm never going to pay a trillion U.S. dollars back for my trillion dollar bill. Nor will anyone else, so the bill's only intrinsic value is its artwork.
Our government has borrowed and printed up 10 trillion dollars. If the U.S. government goes high tech and invents the world's cheapest biofuel and the world's cheapest photovoltaic panels, then the government has a legitimate chance of earning 10 trillion dollars back and paying off the borrowers. If, on the other hand, the government hands out all the research money to the usual fabulously wealthy dum-dums and they reinvent the horse, the government and its taxpayers will only be able to pay back 1 trillion.
Currently $1.30 will buy 1 euro. If the US can only pay back 1 trillion out of 10 trillion with hard goods and services, then $13.00 will buy 1 euro.
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» RE: I just printed out a trillion dollar bill on my printer
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
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Posted by: greatdanes on Apr 16, 2009 11:47 AM
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WHY do you think Main Street Media was So Up set with the Tea Parties?
Come On Guys....join not as a person on the right or the left but as Americans. If we UNITE we can Beat Back ALL of the EVILS we All SEE on the left or the Right side of any issue. Come Together and we Will WIN!.
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» RE: This was One of the Reasons for the TEA PARTIES
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» ON THE SAME MAIN STREET BUT NOT ON THE SAME PAGE
Posted by: americansheep
» Can We Unite for Freedom/ ON THE SAME MAIN STREET BUT NOT ON THE SAME PAGE
Posted by: greatdanes
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Posted by: tazdelaney on Apr 16, 2009 12:31 PM
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the obvious and simple fact is that the united states is not the generator of 1/4 of all the world's income (14/65ths) in a now-defunct but great magazine of the early 1990s, 'business tokyo,' and other sources, the total revenue-stream of the global illegal drug trade was estimated at $9trillion. a piece i read by a former major in the US army who also did work for DEA/CIA before retiring in repudiation of the whole drugwar as a vast cesspool of high-level corruption and hypocrisy; he claimed in the early part of this century that the drug trade was maintaining itself at roughly 3/4 that of the US GDP, which would put it at 11 bilion now.
as the dying italian high-finance expert michele sindona wrote in the 1980s, only the central banks could possibly handle that massive quantity of cash. he also explained how the entire illegal drug trade wound up feeding a single pyramidal cabal which violently disparages 'independents' like humboldt county pot-growers or anyone who seeks to thwart payment of profits to the major players in the global game. he went on to detail that the biggest players outside of the central banks were, of necessity, the world's most powerful governments.
in a matter of pages, sindona clarified the true background of the drugwar as one which reaps trillions yearly and also enables the increased political control of dissidents and 'undesirable' minorities. the racial disparity of drugwar prisoners in the usa is as bad as that of nazi germany or apartheid south africa. while blacks represent 15% of drug users; blacks represent 50% of drugwar prisoners; even though it has been shown that whites actually use proportionately more drugs per capita than blacks – they also have more money to pay lawyers and judges...
something else to consider
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Posted by: waterflaws on Apr 16, 2009 8:07 PM
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Posted by: yesman on Apr 16, 2009 8:37 PM
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Posted by: public takeover on Apr 17, 2009 9:12 AM
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If new people came in they could expose the extent of the deception and destruction.
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Posted by: cougars62960 on Apr 17, 2009 3:20 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I supported Obama, especially during the primary. One of the reasons for my not supporting Clinton was knowing that NYC would be asking for tax money. How did I know that economic crisis was on the horizon as early as 2005? I knew by getting news from financial blogs, not CNBC. Many blogs were warning of the housing bubble, though few thought we were headed for GD 2.0. I got out of the stock market long before it went bust. Then, I got out of the money market and into an fdic insured account a full year before the problems of fannie and freddie were publicized. Those that were screaming about impending doom were ignored by the corporate controlled MSM because there was lots of money to be made on the way up the debt-fueled bubbles.
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Tax the Corporations and the Rich or Take Draconian Cuts -- the Decision Is Ours
Fury at Wall St. Banks Fuels Public Action for Move Your Money Campaign
Why Congress Wants You to Shun Your Local Bookstore and Shop at Amazon Instead




