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1/3 Of America Is Crazy: They Think Their Jobs Are Safe

Thinking about this optimistic third of Americans, it's hard not to reach one basic conclusion: They're nuts.
March 5, 2009  |  
 
 
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According to a recently released AP-GfK poll, 32% of Americans are crazy.

Oh, sorry. The poll actually revealed that 47% of those asked worry "a lot" or "some" about the possibility of losing their jobs. True, that's nearly twice as many as the same poll detected in February 2008, when only 28% of Americans polled raised their hands and acknowledged anxiety.

More noteworthy, though, and much more difficult to explain, is this conundrum: If the AP-GfK poll is to be trusted, almost one-third of all Americans say that they are worried about losing their jobs "not much" or "not at all."

Let's think about what this means. The current official U.S. unemployment rate of 7.6% (up from 7.2% just one month earlier) doesn't faze this optimistic bunch; nor, we might assume, would the news that the real unemployment rate is probably closer to 14%, if you include all those people who are involuntarily underemployed because part-time jobs are the only ones they can find. (The most realistic unemployment figure is undoubtedly higher still, if you include all the previously "self-employed" people whose income has dried up along with the economy.)

Yet even sticking to that 7.6% figure, there are still 4.1 million more people out of work now than 12 months ago. Evidently, that doesn't faze this self-confident group either. Sixty-five percent of survey respondents reported that a friend had lost a job thanks to the cratering economy in the past six months. Twenty-five percent had a family member who had lost a job during this period. It seems that doesn't get to them either… but you get the idea.

An astonishing 32% of those surveyed by AP-GfK are somehow confident that they, at least, are secure in their jobs. (The missing 21% checked off "didn't apply" to the question, including presumably the 10% of those polled who reported already getting the ax during the past six months.) A recent New York Times/CBS News Poll came up with similar findings. In that poll, a marginally larger and so marginally more astonishing 35% of Americans reported themselves not in the least concerned that someone in their household might be out of work in the next 12 months.

Thinking about this optimistic third of Americans, it's hard not to reach one basic conclusion: They're nuts.

Surveying the Layoff Landscape

Polls like these attract respectful attention from the mainstream media. An Associated Press article about the AP-GfK poll, with the typical headline, "Fears over Economy Growing, Poll Says," found its way into newspapers across the country, including the Seattle Times, Sacramento Bee, Washington Times, and Star Tribune of Minneapolis/St. Paul. The article breezed through a batch of fairly predictable findings: lots of people are worried about paying their bills; they're afraid that the value of their stocks and retirement investments will drop; and more than half of poll respondents aren't confident that they will have enough money to live comfortably in retirement.

Yet, for anyone who actually considered the poll, or read between the lines of that widely-reprinted AP article, one question seems too pressing to ignore: How, in the present economic environment, could 32% of Americans fail to grasp that job security no longer exists -- not in the U.S., nor elsewhere in the global economy. Today's most salient question isn't, will you lose your job (if you still have one), but when?

No question, it's getting harder and harder to count on a paycheck. That's certainly true for all the people who have spent their work lives in industries now visibly disintegrating around them (which would include automobile manufacturing, journalism, book publishing, and the rest of the media, the retail sector, financial services, construction, and so on). It's hardly less true for countless people living in one of the 40 or so states with significant budget gaps that need to be plugged, states where cutbacks along the lines of California's recent budget cataclysm are just waiting to happen.

Today, few industries and careers can be considered "safe." After all, technology giants like National Semiconductor and Dell have already begun laying people off; so has that symbol-of-all-symbols Microsoft, which recently announced the first major layoff in the company's history. Tiny branches of local libraries are laying people off too, despite the fact that, in many communities, libraries have emerged as communal gathering spots for unemployed people of all ages and at all stages in their careers.


Jill Andresky Fraser is the creator of, and "Whiner-in-Chief" at, EconoWhiner.com, a website where people share their experiences, emotions, strategies, and attitudes about life during the economic downturn. A longtime financial journalist, she is the author of White-Collar Sweatshop: The Deterioration of Work and Its Rewards in Corporate America. To catch a TomDispatch audio interview in which Fraser discusses why a sizeable minority of Americans seems immunized to the idea that anything bad could happen to them, click here.
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Comments are closed-

Some Americans live in a bubble of unreality!
Posted by: Jay Randal on Mar 5, 2009 12:14 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Years ago I worked for Builders Square in Florida, a rival to Home Depot, and at that time I realized the company was going down hill into bankruptcy. I told some of my fellow employees to start looking for other jobs. A few of them laughed at me and said their jobs were secure. I was proved right, when all the Builders Square stores closed in Florida, and everybody lost their jobs.

Some Americans live in a bubble of unreality and refuse to believe the economy is sliding into another depression. They will continue to believe their jobs are secure until the very day they receive pink slips.

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» Remember Anne Frank Posted by: mrcentrist

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That's because 1/3 of Americans ...
Posted by: mmckinl on Mar 5, 2009 12:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
work at McDonalds, Taco Bell, Burger King or WalMart.

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» He, you stold my thought! Posted by: mtnprivy
» But still, Posted by: kegbot1

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observer
Posted by: davy on Mar 5, 2009 1:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a retired therapist I can safely say, that in my experience, denial is what people are best at.

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'Truth? You can't handle the truth'
Posted by: Purple Girl on Mar 5, 2009 4:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Doing Nothing would have worked to right our economy- we wouldn't be in this mess to start with. At the very least if doing nothing was going to work it would have solved the problem while that 2 1/2 page Ransom Note was still sitting in Paulson's Desk since early '08.
Many people cling to the number 300 million Americans without ever considering the vast numbers within that number who are unable to participate in the work force.so they here 7.6% and they think 'of' 300 Million. Failing to recall how many of that total 300 are children, elderly, disabled, in military service, in prison.Not to mention the 'Unemployement' rate doesn't even reflect the underemployed and those who gave up or were never eligible for unemployement benefits- left jobs volutarily, self employed/single person "odd Jobers".
Funnier yet are those who still think MadeOff was a Fluke. Only Fools lost all their 'nesteggs' investing with this 'too good to be true scammer'.The FDIC insures Bank deposits- so that measly 10,000 you left in that low interst saving account is covered should the bank go belly Up. AIG insures Investment funds, Like That 100,000 from your annuity fund.Starting to think about the AIG bailout a bit differently?Starting to understand why so much money is being shoveled out to that Insurance Corp?They were the FDIC of Investment fund brokers and THEIR depositors.
The Repugs have them so worried about the next generation future, they haven't even bothered to put one & one together about their own.When McCain says 'Generational Theft' he's talking about what his generation just did to ALL the rest behind them.The Real 'boomer' generation was born in the years leading up to and through WW2, Really only about '38-'48, those now 70-80. Gained political and Economic power in the '80's-When 'Bubbles' began really forming and legislation was relaxed to make way for a 'Freer market'."Free Love" ideology gave way to "Free market"Orgies once they took power.
Boomer screwed the Greatest Generation by ignoring healthcare, calling Social security and medicare/medicaid 'Entitlements'. Worked their asses off to bust up the unions their parents & grandparents built.Screwed US all by demanding lower taxes- Not only creating deficits in the national budget, but also in customary & typical Gov't responsibilites (care for the 'at risk' groups, infrastructure)
The True 'Boomers', Took the money and ran, causing the current implosion the rest of US younger generation will be paying for, for generations to come.The 'Generational Theft' has already taken place!
So my fellow citizens in our 40's & 50's, your Retirment party will be held on the same day as your Funeral- a Two for one Deal...Surprise!

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Federal employment
Posted by: kegbot1 on Mar 5, 2009 4:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Follow up to my answer post above.

My ex is doing her best to help me land a Federal job (I'm re-employment eligible as a former Federal employee).

Basically as a sign of the times, there are former Arthur Anderson accountants who were making upper five figures, trying desperately for GS-5 accounting clerks jobs in DFAS.

Same in other places. My old co-worker in Army PR told me 'you wouldn't believe' the people who are applying for clerk jobs now.

The private sector warriors who would have spit on a Federal civil service job just 18 months ago are now on their knees begging to get in.

The world has turned upside down indeed.

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Corporations laying off people in US, hiring in India/China and asking
Posted by: MeyravLevine on Mar 5, 2009 5:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Federal government to put money in stimulus package so they can grow their business.

Take the case of the high-tech sector. The Obama admin has proposed $10 billion for developing internet/wireless infrastructure in rural America.

This money will end up in the hands of telecom service providers like Verizon and equipment makers like Cisco Systems, Ciena, Alcatel-Lucent and a number of other companies.

The telecom equipment makers are cutting jobs in America and adding jobs in their offshore facilities in India and China.

Some of these high-tech firms are closing down entire divisions here and then setting up the same division offshore.

If Obama had a clue, he would have tied the Federal spending with job growth in US.

This isn't the case. We have a double digit unemployment rate today and I wouldn't be surprise if the umemployment rate hits 25% or so before we hit the bottom.

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The more I worry, the saner I am? You're right: I'm nuts.
Posted by: hagwind on Mar 5, 2009 5:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1/3 of Americans aren't worried about losing their jobs -> 1/3 of Americans think their jobs are "safe" -> 1/3 of Americans are crazy?

Those are pretty big (il)logical leaps there. As a freelancer who's living on a shoestring, I don't for a minute think that my income is "safe": my bigger clients could cut back so much that they stop sending work my way, and if they all stopped hiring me tomorrow I wouldn't be eligible for unemployment. But having been freelancing and/or working for very small businesses for most of my adult life, I've grown accustomed to uncertainty, and I'm frugal to the point of cheap. So I wouldn't tell a pollster I was "worried." Concerned, maybe, but not worried. Crazy? Maybe, but it's a pretty high-functioning crazy.

And while we're at it, don't knock denial. Without working denial mechanisms, we'd have a hard time getting through the day. If you get into a car, you could get maimed in an accident. If you step off the curb, you could get run over by a bus. Etc., etc. If your worry about the possibilities gets out of control, you never leave the house -- and maybe break your neck in a fall down the stairs. Don't you ever wonder how people in war-torn places manage to keep putting one foot in front of the other, even when they could get hit by shrapnel or blown up by a mine? Don't knock denial.

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» Specious reasoning Posted by: and_abottleofrum
» Denial has its benefits Posted by: nate

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Some of us are right
Posted by: pinget on Mar 5, 2009 5:36 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some of us are right to believe our jobs are secure. My husband works for his father. There's the ultimate job security right there. Their business is low end, no frills grocery stores. When times are tough, our business grows. Perhaps others in that 31% are leading similarly charmed lives.

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Meh, not everyone approaches life in fear and worry.
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Mar 5, 2009 5:39 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If that's your bag, be my guest.

My wife and I are about to relocate from the deep south to the north. It took me about three months to find a suitable job; she has two interviews after about six weeks of looking.

Unless you happen to be a politician or a CEO, employability is tied to both skills and prior performance. Worry, on the other hand, is a state of mind. Perhaps the worriers and the wringers of hands out there are really worried more about how they'll make their Dumb Mortgage Note as the interest rates return to some degree of normal. Or perhaps they failed to set aside a six-month emergency fund, instead choosing to live well and enjoy their excesses and giant plasma screens.

They might be worried because they thought that *stuff* would make them happy. Surprise! You can't eat a 56" television...

Nuts? Maybe. Happy? Most definitely.

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» Worry Posted by: kepstein7777

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So the left is now opposed to optimism?
Posted by: marcello09 on Mar 5, 2009 6:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't wait for the next AlterNet headline: "90% of Americans Have Sense of Humor: Government-Subsidized Lobotomies Only Solution"

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» Nothing "faux" about it. Posted by: marcello09
» Not buying the lefty-righty thing. Posted by: ABetterFuture
» I'd tend to disagree. Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Hey, rum bottle! Posted by: hagwind
» Optimism Posted by: kepstein7777

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My jobs ARE safe
Posted by: praedor on Mar 5, 2009 6:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My primary job is solid until December (research grant - once you have a grant, it awarded and cannot be terminated). My OTHER job is safe for 2 more years: military reservist within 2 years of being eligible for retirement.

As for my primary job...ultimately, I could always sell my services to other countries interested in biotech/bioweapons if things get REALLY desperate :/

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» Dude! Posted by: kegbot1

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There is some security out there
Posted by: historystudent on Mar 5, 2009 6:31 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think the sad thing is that only 32% are relatively secure, not that this group is foolishly misguided. Given the number of people with health care, education, and government jobs who will lose them only in some sort of post-apocalyptic vision of the future, which hardly seems likely as bad as things are, the number doesn't seem that much of a stretch. Sometimes I think that folks on the left are pulling a bit of a Rush Limbaugh with the economic crisis--we actually hope the system will completely melt down so we can have been proved "right" all along, and therefore exaggerate the bad.

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» Security Posted by: kepstein7777

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Some Industries are still safe
Posted by: Pdimlay on Mar 5, 2009 7:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I work for a major electric company, and they are facing expected retirements of 40-50% of the work force in the industry over the next 5-10 years. Yes, the economy has created setbacks for some people but i still believe that alot will go. There is a lack of skilled labor in this country, and my position is in high demand, so call me nuts if you want for thinking that my job is secure, but people still need electricity, and you cant outsource that!

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So the still employed write the success books?
Posted by: Parcival01 on Mar 5, 2009 7:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Years ago, I took part in weekly discussion groups many of the members of which were old left, the elderly who's been associated, say, with the Abraham Lincoln Brigade or the Communist Party in its pre-McCarthy days. One elderly fellow one night mentioned that, yes, there may have been 25 percent unemployment during the Depression. But that means 75 percent were employed.

It was a valuable point. Because I wonder how many of those 75 percent blamed laziness, lack of work ethic, or various other cliches on those who're unemployed. And how many of the "success" genre of "books" now available have been written by those who remained employed despite many others getting the boot.

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Actually...
Posted by: marcello09 on Mar 5, 2009 7:17 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...I'm an old leftist. A socialist, if you like. Used to be pretty active in all sorts of progressive causes. Still am, sometimes.

I'm just very disappointed in what the left has become. Miserable, complaining, nihilistic, almost completely useless. Y'all have a bad habit of throwing a bucket of cold water on anyone who's trying to accomplish anything. A bunch of Marxists who don't even LIKE the working class. Ironic, eh?

I have a heckuva lot more confidence in the average American than liberals who worry about dissertations have a bad habit of using French-isms ("faux"?) in conversation.

Like I said in another post, Americans have weathered tough times before and we'll weather this storm as well. The left, on the other hand, will continue to predict the demise of America for centuries to come. Nothing lasts forever, so I suppose you'll get it right one of these days. But I ain't holding my breath!

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» Oops... Posted by: marcello09
» Interesting Posted by: and_abottleofrum
» RE: Actually... Posted by: hagwind

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Of those who are not worried, a lot of them could be the long term unemployed/underemployed who
Posted by: maxpayne on Mar 5, 2009 7:27 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
have through the years been conditioned to get used to being laid off and on so as to being disposed of. Just recently was I helping my wife find another job after her company was going belly up and laying en masse.

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I'm not worried
Posted by: NoKidding on Mar 5, 2009 7:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I own a small apt. bldg, it's paid off, and I have stable tenants. People always need a place to live and I am a caring and fair landlady!

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» Bless your heart Posted by: kegbot1
» RE: I'm not worried Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: I'm not worried Posted by: NoKidding
» Better watch out. Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Better watch out. Posted by: NoKidding
» RE: I'm not worried Posted by: littlepitcher
» RE: I'm not worried Posted by: NoKidding

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I would also like to add that unlike the years before and during the Great Depression,
Posted by: maxpayne on Mar 5, 2009 7:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
there is no unity among the working class electorate which is what Corporate America has been successful at maintaining for the last 25 years to say the least. Again, this is a strong example of Main Street fighting against and choking itself gleefully to Wall $treet. The over-individualist self-reliant yankee mentality that has turned this country into an Orwellianized one must be defeated.

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JUST WHAT PEOPLE NEED!
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Mar 5, 2009 7:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author doesn't seem very well informed. A percentage of people out there are safe in their jobs. Even during the depression of the 30's there were people who worked and were OK. Who are you to call these peopel "nuts"? Everyone doesn't have to turn into an alcoholic, a violent person, get depressed. It's perfectly alright to consider youself fortunate and secure. If the boat rocks, they will deal with it. The article reeks of snobbism, a superior attitude and an author who wears a smirk and claims to knwow it all. Stop selling peole short! ANNA

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» RE: JUST WHAT PEOPLE NEED! Posted by: LeeAnnG
» Absolutely agree. Posted by: ABetterFuture

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AND THEY ARE ALSO STUPID BECAUSE.......
Posted by: drricklippin on Mar 5, 2009 8:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.... they think employers are going to help with their health care either as active employees or retirees

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com

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The Believers
Posted by: Southern Gal on Mar 5, 2009 8:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are those people out there who believe that God or some mysterious force will take care of them and their families.

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What is with the fear mongering on this site lately?
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Mar 5, 2009 9:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alternet has taken to ramping up fear about the economy like MSM took to ramping up fear during the Iraq war and terrorism after 9/11.

Fear is healthy and useful but you do have to move past it and work through it in order to function well.

I lost my job and am on unemployment right now. I am confident by the time unemployment runs out I will have my online store together such that I am able to make a living off of it.

Am I crazy or do I simply believe in myself?


Start talking about crazy when reporting on studies of the Milgram experiments, FGM, infant circumcision, and what those studies and practices say about humanity.

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» Alternet IS fear mongering Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: congrats on your liberation Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com

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People are waking up.
Posted by: Artkansas on Mar 5, 2009 9:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Only half as many people believe their job is secure as believed that Saddam had WMDs.

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Even in depression, many were working and having fun
Posted by: dayahka on Mar 5, 2009 10:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I suppose that if you are involved in working directly with people who have lost or are losing their jobs this issue would be big for you, but you may be generalizing falsely. Even in the great depression there were many people who still had jobs, were making money, and enjoying life. This number could have been anywhere from 60 to 75 percent of the population, so even if we were in a depression there is no statistical reason for everyone to worry about their jobs.

While you asked some of the questions that one might want to ask people, it would be useful to know what sort of job people were doing first, then ask if they are worried about their jobs. If you are in banking or financial services or automobile manufacturing, you would be crazy to say you were not worried. But if you were in health care, federal government, or working for Walmart or some fast food outlet, then you might possibly say no, you aren't worried, concerned maybe.

Furthermore, yes 4.5 million are out of work, but at least 100 million are working. Panic would possibly be relevant were we losing a million jobs a week, but at this point, we might lose, say, another 6 million jobs this year and still have around a 100 million working.

So, it may be that the crazy people are those who think people are crazy if they aren't worried about their jobs. Too much doom and gloom makes one a dull person. And if I were to worry about crazy people, I'd be much more worried about the 27 percent who still think Republicans or conservatives are OK, or the 15 million certifiable nut cases who follow Rush Limbaugh religiously.

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Author is typical of Alternet - kneejerk reactions without
Posted by: shanaza on Mar 5, 2009 10:31 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
acutally thinking about it. Nowhere in the poll results did I see a breakdown of workers such as: self-employed, contractors, local / state / federal workers including those in education. I think 32% is a quite reasonable number. But let's condemn them all to ignorance and delusional thinking just to get our jollies. This site has its own "amen crowd."

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Positivity
Posted by: Bizatch! on Mar 5, 2009 10:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is no secret to many of the other posters on here that most Americans cannot bear to think bad thoughts... or, even though they might think them, to censor themselves from expressing them. This is the cult of positivity in effect. I see it all the time. My friends are loathe to admit the crisis is as serious as even the timid broadcast news has been saying, and I'm often brusquely cut off and accused of being a 'total downer' for saying what is openly evident about the situation.

There is a must-hear interview with Michael Hudson which you can find on 'Guns and Butter' (KPFA) radio hour this week which spells it all out. Hudson came up with a beautiful metaphor to explain the 'denial and error' in our midst: much like a leech or other shadowy predators, a venom is released into the victim which doesn't destroy them, but rather anesthetizes them so that the extraction of blood is unnoticed. So too are the predatory bankers and goons of the finance sector acting upon the populace.

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Corporate worship
Posted by: Blue Heron on Mar 5, 2009 11:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think maybe the problem is that Americans have venerated corporations for so long, with slick fantasies of stocks, shiny new cars and bonuses, that even now they are afraid of criticizing that culture. I get the feeling that the denial is all about protecting this delusional little fantasy.

Well here's some reality, folks. I was laid off from Apple 5 months ago, and not even as a full time employee, but a Permatemp. Never heard of that term? Then I'd really suggest you do your homework. I had worked for Crapple for almost 3 years, full time with no benefits, and I did hold a high profile position. They laid me off on a SUNDAY, then sent back my office equipment, most of which I had to purchase, by FedEx and all broken.

Because Apple misclassified me as 'self-employed,' I did not qualify for unemployment benefits. Remember, I worked on site, full time and was managed and told what hours to come in. What we are dealing with here is a total denial and erosion of workers' rights that has been building up for the past two decades and now has reached crisis point. If we all stay in denial, we will be denied everything, and the CEOs will still be laughing all the way to the bank. Hilarious, isn't it? Still feel like bowing down to the Man?

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» RE: Corporate worship Posted by: badkitty
» RE: Corporate worship Posted by: Blue Heron
» RE: Corporate worship Posted by: badkitty
» RE: Do you support Unions? Posted by: Blue Heron
» Up yours, Apple! Posted by: Blue Heron

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FIRE Economy
Posted by: mrcentrist on Mar 5, 2009 12:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans tend to consider their country to be a meritocracy, so many people who work hard and conscientiously assume that they won't be laid-off. The problem, though, is that since the Reagan Revolution, we have become more and more of a FIRE (Finance, Insurance, Real Estate) economy. This type of economy is characterized by investments and financial transactions -- rather than labor itself -- being rewarded. And since the late 1990s, when President Clinton and the Republican Congress deregulated Wall Street even more, a FIRE house of cards involving finance, insurance, and real estate was created. Now the entire fantasy is coming apart at the seams.

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» RE: FIRE Economy Posted by: badkitty
» RE: FIRE Economy Posted by: mrcentrist

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How does "being scared witless" help anything?
Posted by: CV on Mar 5, 2009 12:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm one of the "crazy" 32% - although I wasn't a participant in the poll. I'm not "scared witless" because I know that whatever happens, I will survive. 3 years ago, I sold my home at the top of the market, began to rent and bought a Prius (I saw this mess coming). At the beginning of 2008, I put all my savings (not substantial, but would keep me going for a number of years) into CDs and money market funds. I work for a boutique legal firm that has always been conservative - and is actually growing because it is an attractive haven to some attorneys caught in messes like the Dreyer horror. But if I lost this job, I would (a) move back to Pittsburgh, PA, where I can rent a comfortable apartment for $500-$700 a month; (b) sell whatever I don't need, and (c) take early retirement. Or I might take early retirement and move to Costa Rica, where I can rent an apartment or house for under $400 a month (and as a resident qualify for national health care!). These are some of the reasons I am not "scared witless" now. But then even when unemployed back in the early 80s I was not "scared witless." I just sold everything, moved somewhere people were hiring and lived in a furnished apartment until things got better. But one must be really flexible - and that's tough if you're raising a family. Whatever the circumstance, being "scared witless" does nothing but paralyze your creativity and ingenuity.

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» Be prepared! Posted by: badkitty

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What's the point of this article?
Posted by: holypigeon on Mar 5, 2009 1:01 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its not clear how the author can draw conclusions about the sanity of 1/3 of Americans based on a few polls about unemployement and job loss. Poll numbers don't reveal the motivations behind the responses and the author seems highly unqualified to make any conjectures, especially because her conclusion amounts to the unilluminating assertion that people are just crazy; to simply say that people are nuts trivializes the issue of unemployment and ignores the possibility that some people choose to have a positive outlook despite hard times, perhaps as a way of coping. What's the alternative? To sink into depression and constant worry? To become overcome by fear, an emotion that's exploited by our government for the sake of slowly stripping us of all constitutional rights? That people choose not to worry about their jobs doesn't automatically mean that they're in denial. This "article" is an amateur high school paper. I'm surprised and disappointed that AlterNet has chosen to post this drivel.

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The author is wrong,
Posted by: progunprogressive on Mar 5, 2009 1:27 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the new messiah Obama will lead us into a golden age. Heal all our wounds, empower us, etc.

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Yeah right
Posted by: rankfive on Mar 5, 2009 1:52 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In todays economy, nothing is safe. Nothing. If you have cash, I would recommend stashing it somewhere that you can get to it whenever you need it, anywhere but a bank.

RT
Is your ISP spying on you?

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Retraining for a new job
Posted by: wireup on Mar 5, 2009 2:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been retired for 4+ years and now have to return to work. But there IS no work in my profession, so I decided to retrain for a new one.

Working at home, preferably on my own schedule, is what I want. I don't want to be an alarm-clock-slave again. So, I started doing my own research and came up with a job in the health-care field that I think will work:

I enrolled in a distance-learning program a few weeks ago and am busily working away, learning the lingo. It's interesting. And, so far at least, most of the work is NOT being out-sourced.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed because, otherwise, I have no idea what to do!

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There's a major irony here
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Mar 5, 2009 2:50 PM   
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Jim Grant, an often quoted economic analyst, recently said: “Hope sustains life, but misplaced hope prolongs recessions.” As long as people are "hopeful" and confident that their lives aren't going to be turned up-side-down, the stock market for one is going keep on it's downward slide, followed by one crisis after another.

It's only when most have given up hope that the bottom will be in place. As Nathan Rothchild once said, the time to invest is when there's blood in the streets EVEN IF THE BLOOD IS YOURS!

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After the top dogs eat the bottom dogs......
Posted by: doodahman on Mar 5, 2009 3:05 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The premise of this article is absurd. Yes, it is true that the economy is tanked and that no job is truly secure. But no matter how badly the economy collapses, it's unimaginable that unemployment (broadly measured as the author correctly does), it can't possibly exceed 30-40% of the workforce. The rich people, who still have all the money necessary to hire every person at least at a living wage (because they haven't been paying hardly anyone a living wage for decades now), will pony up that much money because they have to maintain and protect their assets, and to maintain the infrastructure, food supply systems, utilities and other necessaries of modern life.

So, what that 1/3 of "crazy" people are simply assuming is that they are in the top sixty percent of the workforce in terms of work habits, skills, moxy, charisma, luck, connections, and plain willingness to go out there and carve out a living even while the bottom forty percent are forced to eat their children and burn their parents for heat.

Is that crazy? I don't know what planet the author works on, but from what I've seen in this planet, forty percent of the folks are barely employable. They can't read, use the language, learn new skills, follow rules, get their asses out of bed when necessary, or have the brains God gave a gnat. Even in the best of times, 1/3 of the people aren't worth a shit, and here, after decades of destroying public education, unions, and the value of work, I'd say at least half the people aren't worth a shit. They only had jobs before the collapse because somebody had to fill those spots while the bubble was still unburst. So, now the bubble burst, and the cream rises to the top while the flotsam floats away.

For me, I don't know if my company might go under. It probably won't, but even if it does, I will make money. I will dig ditches, I will cut lawns, shit, I will rob banks. I can do all of that. So while I might have to take a huge hit in income, job environment, status and so forth, there is no fucking way in hell I'm going to fall into the bottom 40% of the workforce.

Look, times will be tough for all but the banksters and top 1-5% of wealth controllers. No doubt. But being permanently unemployed? Not hardly. If worse comes to worse, I'll take your job.

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Crazy
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Mar 5, 2009 3:09 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with a lot of the comments that say this article isn't very scientific.

32% sounds a bit low. If I recall correctly, about 90% supported GWB right after 9/11, and about 70% supported the Iraq war when it started. And about 40% still think Saddam Hussein has WMD hidden in his basement, even though he's dead...or something like that.

What does optimism have to do with being nuts? Does Jill Andresky Fraser have some sort of multitasking crystal ball set up so she sees each individual American's future? Who the hell is she?

I came home a bit gloomier than usual today, but that doesn't make me less nuts than I was at the same time yesterday. Ironically, reading some of the comments on this article kind of cheered me up, so by the article's own apparent standard, it seems to have failed to make me more sane by making me more miserable.

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If you're not whimpering with fear, you're a stupid dick...
Posted by: thweems on Mar 5, 2009 3:40 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Somebody else noted it and I'll say it too - AlterNet really does seem to be making a concerted effort lately not only to drive up the fear level on this whole economy thing, but to paint it as completely hopeless as well. Now they're trying to tell us that if were not gripped with dread we're CRAZY? STFU. Are these the same people who kept telling us it was pointless to vote because the Republicans had everything rigged in their favor? What kind of morbidly unhealthy turn is this website taking? Look, we all know the economy is bad, but fear and worry are not going to solve our problems, and gratuitously ratcheting up the histrionics is the last thing that we need right now. I find it kind of irresponsible, to be honest. "Today's most salient question", says the author, "isn't will you lose your job, but when?" Oh, really? So now we're to expect 100% unemployment? Give me a break. This is silly. How about focusing on some real solutions, AlterNet? We deserve something more substantive and more useful than this.

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Wrong
Posted by: hilly7 on Mar 5, 2009 7:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'd say, working in the public, that number is too conservative. Probably more like 1/2.

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1/3 huh?
Posted by: Dickinseattl on Mar 5, 2009 7:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1/3 vote Republican, obviously out of touch with reality. Another 1/3 still think the media is journalism not Establishment propaganda (the other 1/3 even think its Liberal!!) By my accounting that's about 2/3 of americans.

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» RE: 1/3 huh? Posted by: WizardofOhm

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Simple Really
Posted by: archivist on Mar 5, 2009 8:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of the people I work with just drink or do drugs or play video games. If you ask them about reading they say "read!? I hate reading!"

There is a great swath of people who don't know anything about anything, hell they don't even watch main stream news let alone read blogs or AP stories for that matter.

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I ain't crazy but...
Posted by: WizardofOhm on Mar 6, 2009 12:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know my job is secure through October. I work in in two different hotels at the front desk. I know that my jobs are stable for now because of occupancy forcasts. While I can also see that one of the two hotels isn't a stable entity (I do audits, I know the nitty gritty), this is a business of delayed "gratification" and I know I have through the summer until the company will be allowed (because of previous contracts) to fail. The other hotel looks pretty good (I do audits there as well). It's nice to be in a business in which you can literally predict the future. I'll be fine with one job, I'll just need a new roommate to make things affordable...and maybe give a cat or two to a different home.
Wait, I own multiple cats? Shit, I AM crazy...

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2012-type thinking
Posted by: ugotstahwonder on Mar 6, 2009 11:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not knocking it because its very fascinating stuff, but I think the author is engaging in "2012-type thinking", which is to say that we are in the midst of unprecedented transformation. Hey, those Mayans were pretty impressive with their insights, weren't they? We have been engaged in narcissist affairs for too long - the earth and humanity requires a return to our greater humility. I realize that it is easy to pooh-pooh all of this stuff as New Age mumbo jumbo, but, personally, the more I entertain thoughts along the lines of 2012, the more everything makes some kind of sense to me. Certainly the media doesn't have the answers!

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» RE: 2012-type thinking Posted by: DaBear
» RE: 2012-type thinking Posted by: ugotstahwonder

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Isn't 32% the same fig for another demographic?
Posted by: DaBear on Mar 6, 2009 1:40 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe it was 27%, I dunno... just seems like 32% is a mighty familiar figure... of the number of conservatives in the country.

and the number of whackos who feel their jobs are secure... same number as the 32% who deny global warming exists...

Wait, we are talking about Merkaaners right? Silly! Everyone knows that whole shittastic country is batshit stoopid!

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Dependence vs. independence
Posted by: RickW on Mar 7, 2009 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most Americans, contrary to the advertisements, realise they are not the hardy, independent folk who smoke Marlboros and ride into the sunset.

They are in fact, extremely dependent on governments, employers, and many other institutions. They feel trapped -- hence the denial, because no one wants to feel trapped.

A recent survey shows that the only time Americans find any enjoyment is on weekends and holidays.

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Alternet Comments:

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Some Americans live in a bubble of unreality!
Posted by: Jay Randal on Mar 5, 2009 12:14 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Years ago I worked for Builders Square in Florida, a rival to Home Depot, and at that time I realized the company was going down hill into bankruptcy. I told some of my fellow employees to start looking for other jobs. A few of them laughed at me and said their jobs were secure. I was proved right, when all the Builders Square stores closed in Florida, and everybody lost their jobs.

Some Americans live in a bubble of unreality and refuse to believe the economy is sliding into another depression. They will continue to believe their jobs are secure until the very day they receive pink slips.

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» Remember Anne Frank Posted by: mrcentrist

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That's because 1/3 of Americans ...
Posted by: mmckinl on Mar 5, 2009 12:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
work at McDonalds, Taco Bell, Burger King or WalMart.

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» He, you stold my thought! Posted by: mtnprivy
» But still, Posted by: kegbot1

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observer
Posted by: davy on Mar 5, 2009 1:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a retired therapist I can safely say, that in my experience, denial is what people are best at.

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'Truth? You can't handle the truth'
Posted by: Purple Girl on Mar 5, 2009 4:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Doing Nothing would have worked to right our economy- we wouldn't be in this mess to start with. At the very least if doing nothing was going to work it would have solved the problem while that 2 1/2 page Ransom Note was still sitting in Paulson's Desk since early '08.
Many people cling to the number 300 million Americans without ever considering the vast numbers within that number who are unable to participate in the work force.so they here 7.6% and they think 'of' 300 Million. Failing to recall how many of that total 300 are children, elderly, disabled, in military service, in prison.Not to mention the 'Unemployement' rate doesn't even reflect the underemployed and those who gave up or were never eligible for unemployement benefits- left jobs volutarily, self employed/single person "odd Jobers".
Funnier yet are those who still think MadeOff was a Fluke. Only Fools lost all their 'nesteggs' investing with this 'too good to be true scammer'.The FDIC insures Bank deposits- so that measly 10,000 you left in that low interst saving account is covered should the bank go belly Up. AIG insures Investment funds, Like That 100,000 from your annuity fund.Starting to think about the AIG bailout a bit differently?Starting to understand why so much money is being shoveled out to that Insurance Corp?They were the FDIC of Investment fund brokers and THEIR depositors.
The Repugs have them so worried about the next generation future, they haven't even bothered to put one & one together about their own.When McCain says 'Generational Theft' he's talking about what his generation just did to ALL the rest behind them.The Real 'boomer' generation was born in the years leading up to and through WW2, Really only about '38-'48, those now 70-80. Gained political and Economic power in the '80's-When 'Bubbles' began really forming and legislation was relaxed to make way for a 'Freer market'."Free Love" ideology gave way to "Free market"Orgies once they took power.
Boomer screwed the Greatest Generation by ignoring healthcare, calling Social security and medicare/medicaid 'Entitlements'. Worked their asses off to bust up the unions their parents & grandparents built.Screwed US all by demanding lower taxes- Not only creating deficits in the national budget, but also in customary & typical Gov't responsibilites (care for the 'at risk' groups, infrastructure)
The True 'Boomers', Took the money and ran, causing the current implosion the rest of US younger generation will be paying for, for generations to come.The 'Generational Theft' has already taken place!
So my fellow citizens in our 40's & 50's, your Retirment party will be held on the same day as your Funeral- a Two for one Deal...Surprise!

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Federal employment
Posted by: kegbot1 on Mar 5, 2009 4:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Follow up to my answer post above.

My ex is doing her best to help me land a Federal job (I'm re-employment eligible as a former Federal employee).

Basically as a sign of the times, there are former Arthur Anderson accountants who were making upper five figures, trying desperately for GS-5 accounting clerks jobs in DFAS.

Same in other places. My old co-worker in Army PR told me 'you wouldn't believe' the people who are applying for clerk jobs now.

The private sector warriors who would have spit on a Federal civil service job just 18 months ago are now on their knees begging to get in.

The world has turned upside down indeed.

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Corporations laying off people in US, hiring in India/China and asking
Posted by: MeyravLevine on Mar 5, 2009 5:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Federal government to put money in stimulus package so they can grow their business.

Take the case of the high-tech sector. The Obama admin has proposed $10 billion for developing internet/wireless infrastructure in rural America.

This money will end up in the hands of telecom service providers like Verizon and equipment makers like Cisco Systems, Ciena, Alcatel-Lucent and a number of other companies.

The telecom equipment makers are cutting jobs in America and adding jobs in their offshore facilities in India and China.

Some of these high-tech firms are closing down entire divisions here and then setting up the same division offshore.

If Obama had a clue, he would have tied the Federal spending with job growth in US.

This isn't the case. We have a double digit unemployment rate today and I wouldn't be surprise if the umemployment rate hits 25% or so before we hit the bottom.

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The more I worry, the saner I am? You're right: I'm nuts.
Posted by: hagwind on Mar 5, 2009 5:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1/3 of Americans aren't worried about losing their jobs -> 1/3 of Americans think their jobs are "safe" -> 1/3 of Americans are crazy?

Those are pretty big (il)logical leaps there. As a freelancer who's living on a shoestring, I don't for a minute think that my income is "safe": my bigger clients could cut back so much that they stop sending work my way, and if they all stopped hiring me tomorrow I wouldn't be eligible for unemployment. But having been freelancing and/or working for very small businesses for most of my adult life, I've grown accustomed to uncertainty, and I'm frugal to the point of cheap. So I wouldn't tell a pollster I was "worried." Concerned, maybe, but not worried. Crazy? Maybe, but it's a pretty high-functioning crazy.

And while we're at it, don't knock denial. Without working denial mechanisms, we'd have a hard time getting through the day. If you get into a car, you could get maimed in an accident. If you step off the curb, you could get run over by a bus. Etc., etc. If your worry about the possibilities gets out of control, you never leave the house -- and maybe break your neck in a fall down the stairs. Don't you ever wonder how people in war-torn places manage to keep putting one foot in front of the other, even when they could get hit by shrapnel or blown up by a mine? Don't knock denial.

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» Specious reasoning Posted by: and_abottleofrum
» Denial has its benefits Posted by: nate

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Some of us are right
Posted by: pinget on Mar 5, 2009 5:36 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some of us are right to believe our jobs are secure. My husband works for his father. There's the ultimate job security right there. Their business is low end, no frills grocery stores. When times are tough, our business grows. Perhaps others in that 31% are leading similarly charmed lives.

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Meh, not everyone approaches life in fear and worry.
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Mar 5, 2009 5:39 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If that's your bag, be my guest.

My wife and I are about to relocate from the deep south to the north. It took me about three months to find a suitable job; she has two interviews after about six weeks of looking.

Unless you happen to be a politician or a CEO, employability is tied to both skills and prior performance. Worry, on the other hand, is a state of mind. Perhaps the worriers and the wringers of hands out there are really worried more about how they'll make their Dumb Mortgage Note as the interest rates return to some degree of normal. Or perhaps they failed to set aside a six-month emergency fund, instead choosing to live well and enjoy their excesses and giant plasma screens.

They might be worried because they thought that *stuff* would make them happy. Surprise! You can't eat a 56" television...

Nuts? Maybe. Happy? Most definitely.

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» Worry Posted by: kepstein7777

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So the left is now opposed to optimism?
Posted by: marcello09 on Mar 5, 2009 6:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't wait for the next AlterNet headline: "90% of Americans Have Sense of Humor: Government-Subsidized Lobotomies Only Solution"

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» Nothing "faux" about it. Posted by: marcello09
» Not buying the lefty-righty thing. Posted by: ABetterFuture
» I'd tend to disagree. Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Hey, rum bottle! Posted by: hagwind
» Optimism Posted by: kepstein7777

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My jobs ARE safe
Posted by: praedor on Mar 5, 2009 6:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My primary job is solid until December (research grant - once you have a grant, it awarded and cannot be terminated). My OTHER job is safe for 2 more years: military reservist within 2 years of being eligible for retirement.

As for my primary job...ultimately, I could always sell my services to other countries interested in biotech/bioweapons if things get REALLY desperate :/

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» Dude! Posted by: kegbot1

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There is some security out there
Posted by: historystudent on Mar 5, 2009 6:31 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think the sad thing is that only 32% are relatively secure, not that this group is foolishly misguided. Given the number of people with health care, education, and government jobs who will lose them only in some sort of post-apocalyptic vision of the future, which hardly seems likely as bad as things are, the number doesn't seem that much of a stretch. Sometimes I think that folks on the left are pulling a bit of a Rush Limbaugh with the economic crisis--we actually hope the system will completely melt down so we can have been proved "right" all along, and therefore exaggerate the bad.

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» Security Posted by: kepstein7777

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Some Industries are still safe
Posted by: Pdimlay on Mar 5, 2009 7:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I work for a major electric company, and they are facing expected retirements of 40-50% of the work force in the industry over the next 5-10 years. Yes, the economy has created setbacks for some people but i still believe that alot will go. There is a lack of skilled labor in this country, and my position is in high demand, so call me nuts if you want for thinking that my job is secure, but people still need electricity, and you cant outsource that!

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So the still employed write the success books?
Posted by: Parcival01 on Mar 5, 2009 7:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Years ago, I took part in weekly discussion groups many of the members of which were old left, the elderly who's been associated, say, with the Abraham Lincoln Brigade or the Communist Party in its pre-McCarthy days. One elderly fellow one night mentioned that, yes, there may have been 25 percent unemployment during the Depression. But that means 75 percent were employed.

It was a valuable point. Because I wonder how many of those 75 percent blamed laziness, lack of work ethic, or various other cliches on those who're unemployed. And how many of the "success" genre of "books" now available have been written by those who remained employed despite many others getting the boot.

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Actually...
Posted by: marcello09 on Mar 5, 2009 7:17 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...I'm an old leftist. A socialist, if you like. Used to be pretty active in all sorts of progressive causes. Still am, sometimes.

I'm just very disappointed in what the left has become. Miserable, complaining, nihilistic, almost completely useless. Y'all have a bad habit of throwing a bucket of cold water on anyone who's trying to accomplish anything. A bunch of Marxists who don't even LIKE the working class. Ironic, eh?

I have a heckuva lot more confidence in the average American than liberals who worry about dissertations have a bad habit of using French-isms ("faux"?) in conversation.

Like I said in another post, Americans have weathered tough times before and we'll weather this storm as well. The left, on the other hand, will continue to predict the demise of America for centuries to come. Nothing lasts forever, so I suppose you'll get it right one of these days. But I ain't holding my breath!

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» Oops... Posted by: marcello09
» Interesting Posted by: and_abottleofrum
» RE: Actually... Posted by: hagwind

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Of those who are not worried, a lot of them could be the long term unemployed/underemployed who
Posted by: maxpayne on Mar 5, 2009 7:27 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
have through the years been conditioned to get used to being laid off and on so as to being disposed of. Just recently was I helping my wife find another job after her company was going belly up and laying en masse.

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I'm not worried
Posted by: NoKidding on Mar 5, 2009 7:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I own a small apt. bldg, it's paid off, and I have stable tenants. People always need a place to live and I am a caring and fair landlady!

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» Bless your heart Posted by: kegbot1
» RE: I'm not worried Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: I'm not worried Posted by: NoKidding
» Better watch out. Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Better watch out. Posted by: NoKidding
» RE: I'm not worried Posted by: littlepitcher
» RE: I'm not worried Posted by: NoKidding

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I would also like to add that unlike the years before and during the Great Depression,
Posted by: maxpayne on Mar 5, 2009 7:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
there is no unity among the working class electorate which is what Corporate America has been successful at maintaining for the last 25 years to say the least. Again, this is a strong example of Main Street fighting against and choking itself gleefully to Wall $treet. The over-individualist self-reliant yankee mentality that has turned this country into an Orwellianized one must be defeated.

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JUST WHAT PEOPLE NEED!
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Mar 5, 2009 7:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author doesn't seem very well informed. A percentage of people out there are safe in their jobs. Even during the depression of the 30's there were people who worked and were OK. Who are you to call these peopel "nuts"? Everyone doesn't have to turn into an alcoholic, a violent person, get depressed. It's perfectly alright to consider youself fortunate and secure. If the boat rocks, they will deal with it. The article reeks of snobbism, a superior attitude and an author who wears a smirk and claims to knwow it all. Stop selling peole short! ANNA

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» RE: JUST WHAT PEOPLE NEED! Posted by: LeeAnnG
» Absolutely agree. Posted by: ABetterFuture

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AND THEY ARE ALSO STUPID BECAUSE.......
Posted by: drricklippin on Mar 5, 2009 8:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.... they think employers are going to help with their health care either as active employees or retirees

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com

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The Believers
Posted by: Southern Gal on Mar 5, 2009 8:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are those people out there who believe that God or some mysterious force will take care of them and their families.

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What is with the fear mongering on this site lately?
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Mar 5, 2009 9:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alternet has taken to ramping up fear about the economy like MSM took to ramping up fear during the Iraq war and terrorism after 9/11.

Fear is healthy and useful but you do have to move past it and work through it in order to function well.

I lost my job and am on unemployment right now. I am confident by the time unemployment runs out I will have my online store together such that I am able to make a living off of it.

Am I crazy or do I simply believe in myself?


Start talking about crazy when reporting on studies of the Milgram experiments, FGM, infant circumcision, and what those studies and practices say about humanity.

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» Alternet IS fear mongering Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: congrats on your liberation Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com

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People are waking up.
Posted by: Artkansas on Mar 5, 2009 9:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Only half as many people believe their job is secure as believed that Saddam had WMDs.

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Even in depression, many were working and having fun
Posted by: dayahka on Mar 5, 2009 10:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I suppose that if you are involved in working directly with people who have lost or are losing their jobs this issue would be big for you, but you may be generalizing falsely. Even in the great depression there were many people who still had jobs, were making money, and enjoying life. This number could have been anywhere from 60 to 75 percent of the population, so even if we were in a depression there is no statistical reason for everyone to worry about their jobs.

While you asked some of the questions that one might want to ask people, it would be useful to know what sort of job people were doing first, then ask if they are worried about their jobs. If you are in banking or financial services or automobile manufacturing, you would be crazy to say you were not worried. But if you were in health care, federal government, or working for Walmart or some fast food outlet, then you might possibly say no, you aren't worried, concerned maybe.

Furthermore, yes 4.5 million are out of work, but at least 100 million are working. Panic would possibly be relevant were we losing a million jobs a week, but at this point, we might lose, say, another 6 million jobs this year and still have around a 100 million working.

So, it may be that the crazy people are those who think people are crazy if they aren't worried about their jobs. Too much doom and gloom makes one a dull person. And if I were to worry about crazy people, I'd be much more worried about the 27 percent who still think Republicans or conservatives are OK, or the 15 million certifiable nut cases who follow Rush Limbaugh religiously.

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Author is typical of Alternet - kneejerk reactions without
Posted by: shanaza on Mar 5, 2009 10:31 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
acutally thinking about it. Nowhere in the poll results did I see a breakdown of workers such as: self-employed, contractors, local / state / federal workers including those in education. I think 32% is a quite reasonable number. But let's condemn them all to ignorance and delusional thinking just to get our jollies. This site has its own "amen crowd."

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Positivity
Posted by: Bizatch! on Mar 5, 2009 10:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is no secret to many of the other posters on here that most Americans cannot bear to think bad thoughts... or, even though they might think them, to censor themselves from expressing them. This is the cult of positivity in effect. I see it all the time. My friends are loathe to admit the crisis is as serious as even the timid broadcast news has been saying, and I'm often brusquely cut off and accused of being a 'total downer' for saying what is openly evident about the situation.

There is a must-hear interview with Michael Hudson which you can find on 'Guns and Butter' (KPFA) radio hour this week which spells it all out. Hudson came up with a beautiful metaphor to explain the 'denial and error' in our midst: much like a leech or other shadowy predators, a venom is released into the victim which doesn't destroy them, but rather anesthetizes them so that the extraction of blood is unnoticed. So too are the predatory bankers and goons of the finance sector acting upon the populace.

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Corporate worship
Posted by: Blue Heron on Mar 5, 2009 11:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think maybe the problem is that Americans have venerated corporations for so long, with slick fantasies of stocks, shiny new cars and bonuses, that even now they are afraid of criticizing that culture. I get the feeling that the denial is all about protecting this delusional little fantasy.

Well here's some reality, folks. I was laid off from Apple 5 months ago, and not even as a full time employee, but a Permatemp. Never heard of that term? Then I'd really suggest you do your homework. I had worked for Crapple for almost 3 years, full time with no benefits, and I did hold a high profile position. They laid me off on a SUNDAY, then sent back my office equipment, most of which I had to purchase, by FedEx and all broken.

Because Apple misclassified me as 'self-employed,' I did not qualify for unemployment benefits. Remember, I worked on site, full time and was managed and told what hours to come in. What we are dealing with here is a total denial and erosion of workers' rights that has been building up for the past two decades and now has reached crisis point. If we all stay in denial, we will be denied everything, and the CEOs will still be laughing all the way to the bank. Hilarious, isn't it? Still feel like bowing down to the Man?

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» RE: Corporate worship Posted by: badkitty
» RE: Corporate worship Posted by: Blue Heron
» RE: Corporate worship Posted by: badkitty
» RE: Do you support Unions? Posted by: Blue Heron
» Up yours, Apple! Posted by: Blue Heron

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FIRE Economy
Posted by: mrcentrist on Mar 5, 2009 12:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans tend to consider their country to be a meritocracy, so many people who work hard and conscientiously assume that they won't be laid-off. The problem, though, is that since the Reagan Revolution, we have become more and more of a FIRE (Finance, Insurance, Real Estate) economy. This type of economy is characterized by investments and financial transactions -- rather than labor itself -- being rewarded. And since the late 1990s, when President Clinton and the Republican Congress deregulated Wall Street even more, a FIRE house of cards involving finance, insurance, and real estate was created. Now the entire fantasy is coming apart at the seams.

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» RE: FIRE Economy Posted by: badkitty
» RE: FIRE Economy Posted by: mrcentrist

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How does "being scared witless" help anything?
Posted by: CV on Mar 5, 2009 12:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm one of the "crazy" 32% - although I wasn't a participant in the poll. I'm not "scared witless" because I know that whatever happens, I will survive. 3 years ago, I sold my home at the top of the market, began to rent and bought a Prius (I saw this mess coming). At the beginning of 2008, I put all my savings (not substantial, but would keep me going for a number of years) into CDs and money market funds. I work for a boutique legal firm that has always been conservative - and is actually growing because it is an attractive haven to some attorneys caught in messes like the Dreyer horror. But if I lost this job, I would (a) move back to Pittsburgh, PA, where I can rent a comfortable apartment for $500-$700 a month; (b) sell whatever I don't need, and (c) take early retirement. Or I might take early retirement and move to Costa Rica, where I can rent an apartment or house for under $400 a month (and as a resident qualify for national health care!). These are some of the reasons I am not "scared witless" now. But then even when unemployed back in the early 80s I was not "scared witless." I just sold everything, moved somewhere people were hiring and lived in a furnished apartment until things got better. But one must be really flexible - and that's tough if you're raising a family. Whatever the circumstance, being "scared witless" does nothing but paralyze your creativity and ingenuity.

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» Be prepared! Posted by: badkitty

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What's the point of this article?
Posted by: holypigeon on Mar 5, 2009 1:01 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its not clear how the author can draw conclusions about the sanity of 1/3 of Americans based on a few polls about unemployement and job loss. Poll numbers don't reveal the motivations behind the responses and the author seems highly unqualified to make any conjectures, especially because her conclusion amounts to the unilluminating assertion that people are just crazy; to simply say that people are nuts trivializes the issue of unemployment and ignores the possibility that some people choose to have a positive outlook despite hard times, perhaps as a way of coping. What's the alternative? To sink into depression and constant worry? To become overcome by fear, an emotion that's exploited by our government for the sake of slowly stripping us of all constitutional rights? That people choose not to worry about their jobs doesn't automatically mean that they're in denial. This "article" is an amateur high school paper. I'm surprised and disappointed that AlterNet has chosen to post this drivel.

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The author is wrong,
Posted by: progunprogressive on Mar 5, 2009 1:27 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the new messiah Obama will lead us into a golden age. Heal all our wounds, empower us, etc.

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Yeah right
Posted by: rankfive on Mar 5, 2009 1:52 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In todays economy, nothing is safe. Nothing. If you have cash, I would recommend stashing it somewhere that you can get to it whenever you need it, anywhere but a bank.

RT
Is your ISP spying on you?

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Retraining for a new job
Posted by: wireup on Mar 5, 2009 2:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been retired for 4+ years and now have to return to work. But there IS no work in my profession, so I decided to retrain for a new one.

Working at home, preferably on my own schedule, is what I want. I don't want to be an alarm-clock-slave again. So, I started doing my own research and came up with a job in the health-care field that I think will work:

I enrolled in a distance-learning program a few weeks ago and am busily working away, learning the lingo. It's interesting. And, so far at least, most of the work is NOT being out-sourced.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed because, otherwise, I have no idea what to do!

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There's a major irony here
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Mar 5, 2009 2:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jim Grant, an often quoted economic analyst, recently said: “Hope sustains life, but misplaced hope prolongs recessions.” As long as people are "hopeful" and confident that their lives aren't going to be turned up-side-down, the stock market for one is going keep on it's downward slide, followed by one crisis after another.

It's only when most have given up hope that the bottom will be in place. As Nathan Rothchild once said, the time to invest is when there's blood in the streets EVEN IF THE BLOOD IS YOURS!

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After the top dogs eat the bottom dogs......
Posted by: doodahman on Mar 5, 2009 3:05 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The premise of this article is absurd. Yes, it is true that the economy is tanked and that no job is truly secure. But no matter how badly the economy collapses, it's unimaginable that unemployment (broadly measured as the author correctly does), it can't possibly exceed 30-40% of the workforce. The rich people, who still have all the money necessary to hire every person at least at a living wage (because they haven't been paying hardly anyone a living wage for decades now), will pony up that much money because they have to maintain and protect their assets, and to maintain the infrastructure, food supply systems, utilities and other necessaries of modern life.

So, what that 1/3 of "crazy" people are simply assuming is that they are in the top sixty percent of the workforce in terms of work habits, skills, moxy, charisma, luck, connections, and plain willingness to go out there and carve out a living even while the bottom forty percent are forced to eat their children and burn their parents for heat.

Is that crazy? I don't know what planet the author works on, but from what I've seen in this planet, forty percent of the folks are barely employable. They can't read, use the language, learn new skills, follow rules, get their asses out of bed when necessary, or have the brains God gave a gnat. Even in the best of times, 1/3 of the people aren't worth a shit, and here, after decades of destroying public education, unions, and the value of work, I'd say at least half the people aren't worth a shit. They only had jobs before the collapse because somebody had to fill those spots while the bubble was still unburst. So, now the bubble burst, and the cream rises to the top while the flotsam floats away.

For me, I don't know if my company might go under. It probably won't, but even if it does, I will make money. I will dig ditches, I will cut lawns, shit, I will rob banks. I can do all of that. So while I might have to take a huge hit in income, job environment, status and so forth, there is no fucking way in hell I'm going to fall into the bottom 40% of the workforce.

Look, times will be tough for all but the banksters and top 1-5% of wealth controllers. No doubt. But being permanently unemployed? Not hardly. If worse comes to worse, I'll take your job.

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Crazy
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Mar 5, 2009 3:09 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with a lot of the comments that say this article isn't very scientific.

32% sounds a bit low. If I recall correctly, about 90% supported GWB right after 9/11, and about 70% supported the Iraq war when it started. And about 40% still think Saddam Hussein has WMD hidden in his basement, even though he's dead...or something like that.

What does optimism have to do with being nuts? Does Jill Andresky Fraser have some sort of multitasking crystal ball set up so she sees each individual American's future? Who the hell is she?

I came home a bit gloomier than usual today, but that doesn't make me less nuts than I was at the same time yesterday. Ironically, reading some of the comments on this article kind of cheered me up, so by the article's own apparent standard, it seems to have failed to make me more sane by making me more miserable.

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If you're not whimpering with fear, you're a stupid dick...
Posted by: thweems on Mar 5, 2009 3:40 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Somebody else noted it and I'll say it too - AlterNet really does seem to be making a concerted effort lately not only to drive up the fear level on this whole economy thing, but to paint it as completely hopeless as well. Now they're trying to tell us that if were not gripped with dread we're CRAZY? STFU. Are these the same people who kept telling us it was pointless to vote because the Republicans had everything rigged in their favor? What kind of morbidly unhealthy turn is this website taking? Look, we all know the economy is bad, but fear and worry are not going to solve our problems, and gratuitously ratcheting up the histrionics is the last thing that we need right now. I find it kind of irresponsible, to be honest. "Today's most salient question", says the author, "isn't will you lose your job, but when?" Oh, really? So now we're to expect 100% unemployment? Give me a break. This is silly. How about focusing on some real solutions, AlterNet? We deserve something more substantive and more useful than this.

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Wrong
Posted by: hilly7 on Mar 5, 2009 7:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'd say, working in the public, that number is too conservative. Probably more like 1/2.

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1/3 huh?
Posted by: Dickinseattl on Mar 5, 2009 7:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1/3 vote Republican, obviously out of touch with reality. Another 1/3 still think the media is journalism not Establishment propaganda (the other 1/3 even think its Liberal!!) By my accounting that's about 2/3 of americans.

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» RE: 1/3 huh? Posted by: WizardofOhm

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Simple Really
Posted by: archivist on Mar 5, 2009 8:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of the people I work with just drink or do drugs or play video games. If you ask them about reading they say "read!? I hate reading!"

There is a great swath of people who don't know anything about anything, hell they don't even watch main stream news let alone read blogs or AP stories for that matter.

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I ain't crazy but...
Posted by: WizardofOhm on Mar 6, 2009 12:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know my job is secure through October. I work in in two different hotels at the front desk. I know that my jobs are stable for now because of occupancy forcasts. While I can also see that one of the two hotels isn't a stable entity (I do audits, I know the nitty gritty), this is a business of delayed "gratification" and I know I have through the summer until the company will be allowed (because of previous contracts) to fail. The other hotel looks pretty good (I do audits there as well). It's nice to be in a business in which you can literally predict the future. I'll be fine with one job, I'll just need a new roommate to make things affordable...and maybe give a cat or two to a different home.
Wait, I own multiple cats? Shit, I AM crazy...

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2012-type thinking
Posted by: ugotstahwonder on Mar 6, 2009 11:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not knocking it because its very fascinating stuff, but I think the author is engaging in "2012-type thinking", which is to say that we are in the midst of unprecedented transformation. Hey, those Mayans were pretty impressive with their insights, weren't they? We have been engaged in narcissist affairs for too long - the earth and humanity requires a return to our greater humility. I realize that it is easy to pooh-pooh all of this stuff as New Age mumbo jumbo, but, personally, the more I entertain thoughts along the lines of 2012, the more everything makes some kind of sense to me. Certainly the media doesn't have the answers!

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» RE: 2012-type thinking Posted by: DaBear
» RE: 2012-type thinking Posted by: ugotstahwonder

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Isn't 32% the same fig for another demographic?
Posted by: DaBear on Mar 6, 2009 1:40 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe it was 27%, I dunno... just seems like 32% is a mighty familiar figure... of the number of conservatives in the country.

and the number of whackos who feel their jobs are secure... same number as the 32% who deny global warming exists...

Wait, we are talking about Merkaaners right? Silly! Everyone knows that whole shittastic country is batshit stoopid!

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Dependence vs. independence
Posted by: RickW on Mar 7, 2009 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most Americans, contrary to the advertisements, realise they are not the hardy, independent folk who smoke Marlboros and ride into the sunset.

They are in fact, extremely dependent on governments, employers, and many other institutions. They feel trapped -- hence the denial, because no one wants to feel trapped.

A recent survey shows that the only time Americans find any enjoyment is on weekends and holidays.

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