COMMENTS: 143
Obama Is Right to Take on the Very Rich
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We've seen, in recent weeks, an outpouring of public outrage over the mega millions that keep flowing – despite the escalating economic meltdown – into the pockets of America's top bankers and corporate executives.
"I'm angry," Sen. Claire McCaskill (D) of Missouri told her Senate colleagues late last month, as she introduced a bill to cap pay for bailed-out CEOs at $400,000 a year. "Wall Street [is] kicking sand in the face of the American taxpayer."
"I will not tolerate it," President Obama added a few days later, as he announced a $500,000 executive pay cap at firms getting substantial bailout dollars.
The amount of money that goes into executive pockets is staggering. So is the amount that comes out of those pockets in taxes: precious little. America's super-rich are paying far less of their incomes in taxes than average Americans who punch time clocks. This is grossly unfair. The good news: Under Mr. Obama's new plan to cut the deficit in half, the very richest Americans will start paying something closer to their fair tax share.
It's been a while since they've done that. As recent IRS data show, these elites are paying less in taxes – much less – than their deep-pocket counterparts used to pay. In 2006, the 400 highest-income Americans together reported $105 billion in income, an average of $263 million each.
Having trouble visualizing that? To pocket $263 million a year, you would have to take home over $60,000 an hour – and work 12 hours a day, seven days a week, for an entire 12 months. Sounds tiring, doesn't it? But most of the top 400 make their fortunes buying and selling assets, everything from stocks and bonds to the exotic paper that helped inflate the housing bubble.
Uncle Sam taxes income from those assets – whether that income be capital gains or dividends – at a much lower rate than income from work.
The current top tax rate on "ordinary" work income sits at 35 percent. But dividends and capital gains from the buying and selling of most assets face only a 15 percent top rate. That's why in 2006, America's top 400 paid just 17.2 percent of their $263 million average incomes in federal tax.
Millions of middle-class American families, once you tally income and payroll taxes, pay far more of their incomes in tax. One particularly striking example from billionaire investor Warren Buffett: In 2006, he paid 17.7 percent of his income in total taxes. His secretary, who made $60,000, paid 30 percent of hers.
How did we end up with this sorry state of affairs? Lawmakers in Congress have spent the past several decades systematically slicing the tax rates on America's top income brackets. Their rationale? Lower taxes on the top, free up capital for investment, and boost productivity.
In actual economic practice, those lower taxes have served instead to fuel speculation and increase budget deficits. For the ultrarich themselves, the tax savings have been nothing short of breathtaking. Back in 1955, America's top 400 paid more than 50 percent of their incomes in federal tax, almost triple the rate of today's top 400.
We can fix this. Obama just announced his plan to end the Bush administration's high-income tax cuts. This is an important step. We can insist, also, that lawmakers end the preferential treatment of dividends and capital gains. And we can raise the tax rate that kicks in when taxpayers start collecting more than $10 million and $20 million a year.
Steps like these would help get our future in order. But what about the past – and all those windfalls the super-rich have been pocketing as our economy veered into the ditch? Are we going to have to watch these billions multiply, generation after generation, into a new American aristocracy of wealth?
Not if we save the estate tax, the only federal levy on grand accumulations of private wealth. The rich and their retainers have been trying to repeal the estate tax for 20 years now. They haven't succeeded, but they have slashed the tax rate on the fortunes the ultrawealthy leave their heirs.
Congress is about to begin debating legislation that would freeze the estate tax at the current bargain-basement rate set by President Bush. We can't let that happen. More than ever, America needs its ultrarich to chip in more.
Copyright © 2009 The Christian Science Monitor
Sam Pizzigati is the editor of the online weekly Too Much, and an associate fellow at the Institute for Policy Studies.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: Erik1968 on Feb 25, 2009 1:13 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please. Didn't we elect him to raise taxes on the rich? Why is that off the table? How 'bout those tax cuts in the stimulus?
Obama should stand up for Senator Sanders' millionaire's surcharge. But of course, he won't, because he's a DLC centrist.
Oh, how I wish Obama would do something to level the economic playing field. Inherited wealth and radically high pay inequity are completely wrong, by any measure.
If you work full time, you ought to be able to afford a decent place to live, a new car, and some nice stuff. If you're super important and/or powerful, you ought to be able to make about 10 times what the poorest full time wage earner makes.
It's only fair, isn't it? But good luck...
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» RE: LOL
Posted by: mythmorph
» OBAMA = radical socialist liar
Posted by: reelman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Tom Degan on Feb 25, 2009 2:52 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"This time CEOs won't be able to use taxpayer money to pad their paychecks or buy fancy drapes or disappear on private jets. Those days are over".
As many are saying, President Obama found his voice last night. Get the hell out of the way!
They Hate the American People
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
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» let's wait until the promises are kept
Posted by: aislinnluv
» RE: let's wait until the promises are kept
Posted by: mythmorph
» Tom - my friend, it is a dream
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: "is Obama strong enough to get rid of her", say what!?!
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: "is Obama strong enough to get rid of her", say what!?!
Posted by: JSquercia
» People Are Attacking Pelosi-including Obama supporters like Me- because She Blocked Impeachment
Posted by: ATH
» RE: "is Obama strong enough to get rid of her", say what!?!
Posted by: 2thepoint
» Sister Laura, You Are Usually More Aware
Posted by: ATH
» Right, it's Pelosi's fault. Take a breath
Posted by: hardwroc
» RE: ight, it's Pelosi's fault. Take a breath
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: PINCH ME, I MUST BE FREAKING DREAMING!!! No, you're not
Posted by: Beck
» RE: PINCH ME, I MUST BE FREAKING DREAMING!!!
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: PINCH ME, I MUST BE FREAKING DREAMING!!!
Posted by: mythmorph
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mmckinl on Feb 25, 2009 2:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tax rates on capital gains have fallen to half the top rate, over 35% to just 15%! Capital gains taxes have been more than halved!
Estate taxes were lowered from 70% to 50% in 1981 and Bush has lowered even more since. In 2010 the estate tax is repealed altogether!
Then there are the loopholes. Loopholes that let billionaires walk away damn near free. Read Perfectly Legal by David Cay Johnston to get real angry about how the richest of the rich get away with paying just about nothing.
What do we need ?
A top rate of 70% on the top 1% for income taxes while getting rid of loopholes and taxing all income as ordinary income.
Is it fair that hedge fund managers gets a 15% income tax rate on hundreds of billions of dollars while the working stiff gets to pay 25% or better AFTER he has paid his payroll taxes?
Income taxes need to be rethought from scratch, loopholes eliminated and estate taxes increased on the wealthiest.
Progressives denounce the wealth gap, the widest since the 1920s yet we hear nothing but silence from the so-called liberal and progressive web sites and economists on the only method known to shrink this gap : INCREASE TAXES ON THE WELL TO DO.
thanks to Alternet for getting us started on what we need to do : Follow the Money !
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» Elite liberals like their tax cuts too!
Posted by: RR#1
» money and morals
Posted by: aislinnluv
» Are you a taker or a giver!
Posted by: 2thepoint
» You Mean "Takers", like the Superrich?
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: You Mean "Takers", like the Superrich?
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: You Mean "Takers", like the Superrich?
Posted by: Timba
» RE: You Mean "Takers", like the Superrich?
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: You Mean "Takers", like the Superrich?
Posted by: login@bugmenot.com
» You work hard and smart? Pay no taxes and blog all day?
Posted by: hardwroc
» RE: Yet, Where are the Voices for Tax Fairness?
Posted by: 2thepoint
» We hate thieves because we are Americans...
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: We hate thieves because we are Americans...
Posted by: 2thepoint
» Anyone earning less than 20k is working for a republican!
Posted by: hardwroc
» RE: Anyone earning less than 20k is working for a republican!
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Obama seems to have given rise to - hatred of anyone who has made a success of themselves.
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Obama seems to have given rise to - hatred of anyone who has made a success of themselves.
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Obama seems to have given rise to - hatred of anyone who has made a success of themselves.
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Yet, Where are the Voices for Tax Fairness?
Posted by: mmckinl
» RE: Yet, Where are the Voices for Tax Fairness?
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: Yet, Where are the Voices for Tax Fairness?
Posted by: mythmorph
» What flavor Koolaid
Posted by: marid
» RE: Yet, Where are the Voices for Tax Fairness?
Posted by: Jim Shaw
» Well, aren't you one of the voices?
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Well, aren't you one of the voices? P.S.
Posted by: Beck
» At least he's pointing out useful information for others to take note on.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Well, aren't you one of the voices?
Posted by: mmckinl
» RE: Joining the Chorus
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Joining the Chorus
Posted by: mmckinl
» RE: Well, aren't you one of the voices?
Posted by: 2thepoint
Comments are closed-
Posted by: RR#1 on Feb 25, 2009 3:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cheers,
RR
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Posted by: ~Fiona~ on Feb 25, 2009 3:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"How did we end up with this sorry state of affairs? Lawmakers in Congress have spent the past several decades systematically slicing the tax rates on America's top income brackets. Their rationale? Lower taxes on the top, free up capital for investment, and boost productivity."
The policians know Exactly what they are doing in making the rich ever richer... They are "influence peddling", pure and simple. The more $$$ they shovel into Big Money's Pockets, the more influence they have come election time...
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» RE: Why don't people call a Spade a "Spade"?!
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Why don't people call a Spade a "Spade"?!
Posted by: Uriahz
» Not a racist sentiment
Posted by: Quicksilver
» RE: Why don't people call a Spade a "Spade"?!
Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
Comments are closed-
Posted by: 2thepoint on Feb 25, 2009 4:06 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The real issue is those that use most of the social services pay little or no income taxes.
Not unusual for the times we are demonizing success, wealth and individual initiative in this nation.
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» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: helenahanbasquet
» How about the CBO?
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: So 20% of Americans have 84% of the wealth
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: So 20% of Americans have 84% of the wealth
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: So 20% of Americans have 84% of the wealth
Posted by: Quicksilver
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE:Failure = success
Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: helenahanbasquet
» RE: Late 50s, early 60s. Great economy, high taxes, strict government regulation. . .
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Late 50s, early 60s. Great economy, high taxes, strict government regulation. . .
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: Hiroak
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: CosimoRondo
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: 2thepoint
» "Not unusual for the times we are demonizing success, wealth and individual.." blah blah blah
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: "Not unusual for the times we are demonizing success, wealth and individual.." blah blah blah
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: "Not unusual for the times we are demonizing success, wealth and individual.." blah blah blah
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: "Not unusual for the times we are demonizing success, wealth and individual.." blah blah blah
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: "Not unusual for the times we are demonizing success, wealth and individual.." blah blah blah
Posted by: iolanthe
» Bernie Madoff the Role Model
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: Alex Hidell
» The top 5% wage earners earn 95% of the wages!!
Posted by: hardwroc
» We are fighting the demonization of the poor.
Posted by: hardwroc
» The richest are NOT "wage earners"
Posted by: Ignatz deFyre
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: Lilly
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Feb 25, 2009 5:20 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Would some graphs help you to grasp the issue better? If this kind of presentation works for you then take a look at article 1 and article 2.
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» RE: Waking Up
Posted by: iolanthe
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Posted by: Oemissions on Feb 25, 2009 5:42 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A salary of over $150,000 is definitely RICH where I come from.
Proportionally, their taxes are still small.
It would take me 10 years to have a total earning of even $250,000 but I do important work. I SERVE society.
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» RE: Oemissions
Posted by: mythmorph
» Rich Relativity
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» Middle Class Under 400K
Posted by: iolanthe
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Posted by: wsx on Feb 25, 2009 5:42 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
raising taxes on the wealthy can end up killing the golden goose, be carefule what you ask for
wall street journal article on bloomberg yesterday:
But late last week Mayor Bloomberg was channelling these columns when he said that raising taxes on high earners could drive them from the city. "One percent of the households that file in this city pay something like 50% of the taxes," explained the Mayor. "In the city, that's something like 40,000 people. If a handful left, any raise would make it revenue neutral. The question is what's fair. If 1% are paying 50% of the taxes, you want to make it even more?"
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» Go ahead and kill it before it kills us
Posted by: Hiroak
» RE: Go ahead and kill it before it kills us
Posted by: wsx
» RE: Stop "investing"
Posted by: Sushi
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Posted by: maxpayne on Feb 25, 2009 6:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: letting it "expire" in 2010
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: WHERE has he "folded his tent before, and how is his Tax Tent folding this time??
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: I dunno. He's folded like a tent before so
Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
Comments are closed-
Posted by: NG1 on Feb 25, 2009 7:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In other words, you can live much better paying %30 of $250,000 than 30% of $30,000. Now, I'm not suggesting that we tax everyone at a rate that would even out income levels, that would be ludicrous.
The conclusion I keep coming back to is: if you drop the tax on the $30,000 person to 20%, that would leave those people with an extra $3000 a year (the difference between a new car or not). Then, raise the taxes of the person who makes $250,000 to 32%, (also a difference of $3000) you would make up the difference while not changing the lifestyle of the rich, while at the same time improving the lifestyle of the lower middle class. I guess the point is, the rich will still be able to afford houses and cars, and with this method, the lower middle class could as well.
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» RE: A Problem With Flat Tax and Financial Equality
Posted by: Quist
» RE: A Problem With Flat Tax and Financial Equality
Posted by: sam15a
» RE: A Problem With Flat Tax and Financial Equality
Posted by: NG1
» RE: The Big Picture
Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
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Posted by: xvictor on Feb 25, 2009 8:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Get rid of the offshore tax shelters
Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
» Shock and Awe the Caymen Islands !!!
Posted by: hardwroc
» RE: Best possible use of Military?
Posted by: marid
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Posted by: ABetterFuture on Feb 25, 2009 8:21 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'd have no problem seeing private jets, computers, or yachts taxed at 25-35%. The democrats and republicans have to finance their stupid wars somehow, right? Taxing income, on the other hand, is a way of discouraging savings and encouraging poverty. Tricky that way, aren't the pols--encourage poverty through tax policy, and then make such people then-dependent on your (our) programs.
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Posted by: alturn on Feb 25, 2009 9:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are many, many 'rich' people making their money off the largesse of public trough through a myriad of ways while kicking back a trifle to a significant amount of the ill gotten gains (through hidden ownership limited liability corporations) to politicians and parties on both sides. These 'free marketeers', along with people who receive government pensions far larger than those in the everyday world make up a significant part of the Rush Limbaugh nation and the limousine liberal crowd.
Yes, tax the rich. Looking under the hood, there will be found a disproportionate amount of the rich that got there with great help from the government.
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» RE: It's not just how much they pay, it is how much they get
Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
» RE: It's not just how much they pay, it is how much they get
Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
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Posted by: willymack on Feb 25, 2009 10:43 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Liberty, egality, fraternity
Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
» RE: Liberty, egality, fraternity
Posted by: sam15a
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson on Feb 25, 2009 11:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Prime Minister Brown of the British Empire declared we should have "world order government" to solve our financial problems. Like that has worked so far? No the elite few have made a mess.
Labeling governments and leaders does not answer many questions for me. Monarchs, Dictators, Communists, Democratic, Socialistic, Theocracy leaders, etc. governments can be good if the people are happy and have a say over their own lives and future. No torture or spying is allowed and with lawyers to protect their rights.
This concentration of wealth leaves others without...food, homes, health care, a future for their children, etc. This could become a very dangerous society with chaos and fear ruling in the streets. Democracy brings peace and stability. Peace and prosperity is just that!!
Let's call the Globalists what they really are....crooks, murderers, and liars. When you think about it the few ruling elite today are all criminals. Label them as you please but that is the bottom line. Some call them Cons. I call them Globalists.
Have you read The Rise of the Fourth Reich by Marrs? He is right about many things but not about the Masons. How many of our leaders were in the Masons today? Other religious groups hate them because they believe in God and Separation of Church and State. They believe in unions and human rights. They believe in democracy not theocracy rule. I'd say many religious groups were more a threat to America than the other way around. Some countries in Europe threw them out for trying to over throw their government. They were called "cults". Any religious group which is inclusive is a cult.
We as a democracy in our Constitution believing in Separation of Church and State said, you can prosper and worship as you wish but stay out of government. We had the most varied and prosperous religious groups in the world. That wasn't enough. They wanted it all for their own self interest and tried to rule our government for their own agenda.
I am angry at Obama for keeping the Faith Based Charity group in our government...without changing the Constitution (actually violating the Constitution). Is that open government Obama? Obama could cut the budget by not giving the religious organizations billions of our tax dollars (unconstitutional and Fascist). My relative was laid off as a Social Worker in Wilmington, North Carolina over three years ago. Bet the "favored religious groups" got funding.
As a democracy our middle class is important. Where are those tax cut reversals for the top elite Democrats? You complained about that Bush tax cuts was the mandate of the 2008 election. Remember that exercise in "democracy"? The "bipartisonship rule" is only an excuse to ignore the people's agenda (bring back our rights and freedoms, get out of the wars and occupations around the world, tax the rich, and bring back our jobs and corporations by ending NAFTA, no foreign ownership of our Common Wealth, etc.). Remember President Obama and Congress?
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Posted by: sam15a on Feb 25, 2009 11:39 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While it is evidently a concept popular with those of us who have modest means, wanting to soak the richs seems to only reflect envy.
(The only downside of a flat tax is that we won't need all these tax preparation services to file our taxes. That would not be good if you are a tax preparer but great for the rest of us!)
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» RE: Why not a simple flat tax?
Posted by: wsx
» Why not? Because the real rich don't have income.
Posted by: billwald
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Posted by: cbishopp on Feb 25, 2009 12:08 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But sadly I still say screw 'em.
A single individual does not need billions of dollars. There is just no need for it.
To think that they spend money on just stuff is what poor people think. They spend money on politicians, they spend money on legislation that allows them to concentrate their wealth even further. They spend money on newspapers, TV stations, and media sources that influence millions of people. They spend money on natural resources and fund companies like Monsanto that genetically modifies food so that a patent can be put on the most necessary commodities on earth. They spend money on war and bloodshed, dictators that allow business development, and prisons that protect them from the teeming ignorant masses. They loan money to governments so that they are further enriched through interest paid by taxpayers, a hidden form of slavery that has ruled America since the Civil War. They spend money on private armies and weapons and earn even better profits as a result. They buy antiques, historical artifacts often stolen from all over the world then sold to the highest bidder and put on display in their homes.
They see history and human beings as things to be bought and sold just like everything else.
Does anyone personally know someone who is super wealthy? I do. Many (but not all) of them are totally crazy. They are so removed from reality it is ridiculous. They have hundreds of people who come to them begging for hand outs and just as many more who kiss their ass. They are deeply concerned about material goods and the illusion of their own personal importance and they have private staff that deal with any and every thing they see as a hindrance. As a result they have women from Honduras raising their kids and washing their underwear for a mediocre wage.
The point is that success is one thing but egregious wealth is another. It promotes a deep selfishness and a general mistrust of humanity. It concentrates an undue amount of power to a single individual and it is my experience that NO ONE should have that much power. Great wealth is based on a perversion of human character and is often misused. Whomever supports true democracy and equality would not pursue such wealth.
I would never desire to prevent anyone from achieving their goals but what kind of person wants that much money? Better yet, what type of person is created who inherits that kind of money? Take a few minutes to check out what David Rockefeller believes and supports. It might provide some interesting reading and certainly follows what I have stated here.
That is just one example of a whole society that would never deign to live like or with the rest of us yet they feel that their every breath and decision is a gift that we should cherish.
"You know, gentlemen, that I do not owe any personal income tax. But nevertheless, I send a small check, now and then, to the Internal Revenue Service out of the kindness of my heart." --David Rockefeller
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» About the super wealthies
Posted by: sam15a
» RE: About the super wealthies
Posted by: cbishopp
» RE: About the super wealthies
Posted by: sam15a
» RE: About the super wealthies
Posted by: asburykat
» RE: About the super wealthies
Posted by: sam15a
Comments are closed-
Posted by: wsx on Feb 25, 2009 1:39 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if you want more out of this world, find a way of adding more value.
then, when you have become successul, post the reasons why you should hand over a higher percentage of the product of your efforts to a bunch of mindless politicians.
but its easier to sit on your arse, post thousand word comments all day, convincing yourself that you are on an intellectual/moral high ground, and decry those that have become successful
most of you people are a joke
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» RE: after reading all these posts
Posted by: cbishopp
» RE: after reading all these posts
Posted by: wsx
» RE: after reading all these posts
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» RE: after reading all these posts
Posted by: wsx
» RE: after reading all these posts
Posted by: Quicksilver
Comments are closed-
Posted by: grosspointblank1986 on Feb 25, 2009 4:29 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
House Resolution HR-25.
Which does away with the income tax all together & replaces it with a sales tax & prebate system.
Check it out
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Posted by: Nicks on Feb 25, 2009 8:27 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama is a politician. Simple.
He proved this by giving Hilary Clinton such a powerful role - they both argued against each others policy and ideals. He kept so many of Bush's people in power.
We didn't vote for this.
Disappointed.
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» RE: Change? What Change.
Posted by: wsx
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Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Feb 26, 2009 12:17 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our tax system should be based on taxing these natural resources in the products we buy.
Income taxes, sales taxes on services or agricultural products, property taxes on more than just land, these impinge on the principal of "your body, your property, your choice".
We should not have to pay property taxes on a car just to help raise revenue for the town or city we live in. What is the legitimate justification for such a property tax? The car is paid for, any taxes on the resources used in it should be up front at purchase time. We should not be nickel and dimed on the property we own.
The income tax discourages people from working hard because the harder you work, the higher the tax rate and the less money you actually get to keep. The government is taking money from you merely because you performed a job and earned money from it. The money you earned though was at the expense of your time, time you will not get back.
There is an incredible amount of inertia involved in changing the tax system but if we are to develop a truly fair tax system it should be based on fundamental principles and human rights. Natural resources like steel, copper, gold, diamonds, etc are a fair basis for a tax system, income from work is not.
Your body, your property, your choice.
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Posted by: reelman on Feb 26, 2009 8:05 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You Say You Want A Revolution? by Avman on the louisianaconservative.com Feb 25.2009
I’m tired of it, I’m just sick and tired of it. I’m tired of being told that we must help people who absolutely refuse to help their selves. I’m tired of the very people who claim we went to war in Iraq for oil telling us that we can’t drill for oil here in the United States. I’m tired of seeing producers punished while irresponsibility is rewarded. It’s time to change that, it’s time to shrug.
They have shackled our hands with the burden of high taxes, fees, and fines.
They have shackled our legs with laws in the name of compassion, fairness, and incompetence.
They have shackled our necks with debts that we can not pay back in this life time.
And when we try to speak up on our own behalf, they whip us with shame.
We have become the slaves of socialism.
CRAWFISH NOTE: The rage will grow because this admin sincerely believes in socialism-high taxes-pacifism-bigger govt-class warfare…sincerely. Its all about buying the votes of the lower achievers with the money of higher achievers.
http://conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish
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Posted by: LuigiP on Feb 26, 2009 9:49 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I’m afraid you’ve been suckered again, dude. Here are the latest statistics available for who paid what portion of the United States Federal Income Tax.
In 2006, the top 1% of US income earners, that would be people who made over $308,806, earned 22% of all income and paid 40% of all Federal Income Taxes.
The top 5% - people who earned $153,000 and above - earned 37% of all income and paid 60% of Federal Income Tax
The top 10%, people who earned at least $108,904 earned 47% of the income and paid 71% of the taxes.
If you split US income earners in half, the top half, those who earned $32,000 and over earned 87.5% of all US income and paid 97% of all Federal Income Taxes, while the bottom half, those who earned under $32,000 in 2006 earned 12.5% of income paid only 3% of Federal Income Taxes.
To say “the rich” don’t pay their fair share of taxes, you have to completely ignore facts.
That article you sent me refers to 400 people. That would be 13/100,000 of a percent of Americans. Spending your animosity on such a statistically insignificant group seems a little counterproductive, but that’s what Obama and the Democrats count on, being able to instill wealth envy in American voters to the point they can’t see economic reality. Maybe some of these 400 are just investing in tax free bonds and not contributing much to the economy, but too bad that article didn’t say how many businesses those 400 people run and so how many jobs they are responsible for. Tax the shit out of them, and they may go play golf and lay on the beach instead of taking on the headaches of running businesses that provide jobs.
It’s pretty easy to look at your own state (California) now, and see what the entitlement culture/punish the wealthy thinking/governmental regulation has done to your financial structure. Try to kill the wealthy and make all people economically equal and the economy tanks…
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» Tell Your GOP friend he's full of it, and we all know it!
Posted by: ATH
» Oh, by the way--News Flash! The Economy Has 'Tanked'
Posted by: ATH
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Posted by: ATH on Feb 26, 2009 3:55 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's why she blocked Impeachment hearings against Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, etc. These bastards tortured innocent people to death!!!These people were not all innocent, but some--probably many--were. After all, they paid other Iraqis an amount of money greater than what they made in a year to 'tell them who the terrorists were.' That's how many of these "terrorists" were rounded up! It's ridiculous! Everyone has enemies, especially over there with all the in-fighting. Who wouldn't turn in an enemy for a year's worth of money?
This is not just some idea--I know this for a fact. I don't care if you believe it or not--but why else would Pelosi block these hearings, and keep funding the Iraq war, when she ran on a platform to end the war and hold the Bush admin. accountable!?
The reason I know this is because during a House Judiciary hearing on presidential abuse of power, a repugnican got so mad that he asked if Pelosi could be subpeoned for her testimoney, because she was briefed-- And then he was cut off by a Democrat, and I think he realized he'd gone too far.
Anyway, I put this together, with what some insiders had already said--that Pelosi had been briefed on the whole rendition/torture agenda-- and realized it was true. And, it explained why she's continued--even now--to block any investigation into torture. She doesn't mind investigating for the attorney firings, etc--but NOT TORTURE because she knows she would be exposed! She just said, on Rachael Maddow's show that she oppossed Leahy's truth commission because it offered immunity for confession..but she didn't say, we should have it, just without any immunity. She didn't offer any other ideas. She just said what would show her opposition to any investigation into these crimes and did so in a way that made her sound like she was the "tough cookie" when all along she's had the power to end the Iraq war and had the power to allow, or block, as she did, Impeachment hearings in the House. And she continues to block investigations.
I'm no fan of republicans. I'm far to the left. But anyone who knows people are being tortured and does nothing about it, then helps cover it up, is no better than Bush or Cheney, or Rumsfeld, or any of the murderers in that administration!!!
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Posted by: Lilly on Feb 26, 2009 9:06 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Erik1968 on Feb 25, 2009 1:13 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please. Didn't we elect him to raise taxes on the rich? Why is that off the table? How 'bout those tax cuts in the stimulus?
Obama should stand up for Senator Sanders' millionaire's surcharge. But of course, he won't, because he's a DLC centrist.
Oh, how I wish Obama would do something to level the economic playing field. Inherited wealth and radically high pay inequity are completely wrong, by any measure.
If you work full time, you ought to be able to afford a decent place to live, a new car, and some nice stuff. If you're super important and/or powerful, you ought to be able to make about 10 times what the poorest full time wage earner makes.
It's only fair, isn't it? But good luck...
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» RE: LOL
Posted by: mythmorph
» OBAMA = radical socialist liar
Posted by: reelman
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Feb 25, 2009 2:52 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"This time CEOs won't be able to use taxpayer money to pad their paychecks or buy fancy drapes or disappear on private jets. Those days are over".
As many are saying, President Obama found his voice last night. Get the hell out of the way!
They Hate the American People
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
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» let's wait until the promises are kept
Posted by: aislinnluv
» RE: let's wait until the promises are kept
Posted by: mythmorph
» Tom - my friend, it is a dream
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: "is Obama strong enough to get rid of her", say what!?!
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: "is Obama strong enough to get rid of her", say what!?!
Posted by: JSquercia
» People Are Attacking Pelosi-including Obama supporters like Me- because She Blocked Impeachment
Posted by: ATH
» RE: "is Obama strong enough to get rid of her", say what!?!
Posted by: 2thepoint
» Sister Laura, You Are Usually More Aware
Posted by: ATH
» Right, it's Pelosi's fault. Take a breath
Posted by: hardwroc
» RE: ight, it's Pelosi's fault. Take a breath
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: PINCH ME, I MUST BE FREAKING DREAMING!!! No, you're not
Posted by: Beck
» RE: PINCH ME, I MUST BE FREAKING DREAMING!!!
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: PINCH ME, I MUST BE FREAKING DREAMING!!!
Posted by: mythmorph
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mmckinl on Feb 25, 2009 2:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tax rates on capital gains have fallen to half the top rate, over 35% to just 15%! Capital gains taxes have been more than halved!
Estate taxes were lowered from 70% to 50% in 1981 and Bush has lowered even more since. In 2010 the estate tax is repealed altogether!
Then there are the loopholes. Loopholes that let billionaires walk away damn near free. Read Perfectly Legal by David Cay Johnston to get real angry about how the richest of the rich get away with paying just about nothing.
What do we need ?
A top rate of 70% on the top 1% for income taxes while getting rid of loopholes and taxing all income as ordinary income.
Is it fair that hedge fund managers gets a 15% income tax rate on hundreds of billions of dollars while the working stiff gets to pay 25% or better AFTER he has paid his payroll taxes?
Income taxes need to be rethought from scratch, loopholes eliminated and estate taxes increased on the wealthiest.
Progressives denounce the wealth gap, the widest since the 1920s yet we hear nothing but silence from the so-called liberal and progressive web sites and economists on the only method known to shrink this gap : INCREASE TAXES ON THE WELL TO DO.
thanks to Alternet for getting us started on what we need to do : Follow the Money !
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» Elite liberals like their tax cuts too!
Posted by: RR#1
» money and morals
Posted by: aislinnluv
» Are you a taker or a giver!
Posted by: 2thepoint
» You Mean "Takers", like the Superrich?
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: You Mean "Takers", like the Superrich?
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: You Mean "Takers", like the Superrich?
Posted by: Timba
» RE: You Mean "Takers", like the Superrich?
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: You Mean "Takers", like the Superrich?
Posted by: login@bugmenot.com
» You work hard and smart? Pay no taxes and blog all day?
Posted by: hardwroc
» RE: Yet, Where are the Voices for Tax Fairness?
Posted by: 2thepoint
» We hate thieves because we are Americans...
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: We hate thieves because we are Americans...
Posted by: 2thepoint
» Anyone earning less than 20k is working for a republican!
Posted by: hardwroc
» RE: Anyone earning less than 20k is working for a republican!
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Obama seems to have given rise to - hatred of anyone who has made a success of themselves.
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Obama seems to have given rise to - hatred of anyone who has made a success of themselves.
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Obama seems to have given rise to - hatred of anyone who has made a success of themselves.
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Yet, Where are the Voices for Tax Fairness?
Posted by: mmckinl
» RE: Yet, Where are the Voices for Tax Fairness?
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: Yet, Where are the Voices for Tax Fairness?
Posted by: mythmorph
» What flavor Koolaid
Posted by: marid
» RE: Yet, Where are the Voices for Tax Fairness?
Posted by: Jim Shaw
» Well, aren't you one of the voices?
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Well, aren't you one of the voices? P.S.
Posted by: Beck
» At least he's pointing out useful information for others to take note on.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Well, aren't you one of the voices?
Posted by: mmckinl
» RE: Joining the Chorus
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Joining the Chorus
Posted by: mmckinl
» RE: Well, aren't you one of the voices?
Posted by: 2thepoint
Comments are closed-
Posted by: RR#1 on Feb 25, 2009 3:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cheers,
RR
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Posted by: ~Fiona~ on Feb 25, 2009 3:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"How did we end up with this sorry state of affairs? Lawmakers in Congress have spent the past several decades systematically slicing the tax rates on America's top income brackets. Their rationale? Lower taxes on the top, free up capital for investment, and boost productivity."
The policians know Exactly what they are doing in making the rich ever richer... They are "influence peddling", pure and simple. The more $$$ they shovel into Big Money's Pockets, the more influence they have come election time...
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» RE: Why don't people call a Spade a "Spade"?!
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Why don't people call a Spade a "Spade"?!
Posted by: Uriahz
» Not a racist sentiment
Posted by: Quicksilver
» RE: Why don't people call a Spade a "Spade"?!
Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
Comments are closed-
Posted by: 2thepoint on Feb 25, 2009 4:06 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The real issue is those that use most of the social services pay little or no income taxes.
Not unusual for the times we are demonizing success, wealth and individual initiative in this nation.
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» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: helenahanbasquet
» How about the CBO?
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: So 20% of Americans have 84% of the wealth
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: So 20% of Americans have 84% of the wealth
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: So 20% of Americans have 84% of the wealth
Posted by: Quicksilver
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE:Failure = success
Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: helenahanbasquet
» RE: Late 50s, early 60s. Great economy, high taxes, strict government regulation. . .
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Late 50s, early 60s. Great economy, high taxes, strict government regulation. . .
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: Hiroak
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: CosimoRondo
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: 2thepoint
» "Not unusual for the times we are demonizing success, wealth and individual.." blah blah blah
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: "Not unusual for the times we are demonizing success, wealth and individual.." blah blah blah
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: "Not unusual for the times we are demonizing success, wealth and individual.." blah blah blah
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: "Not unusual for the times we are demonizing success, wealth and individual.." blah blah blah
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: "Not unusual for the times we are demonizing success, wealth and individual.." blah blah blah
Posted by: iolanthe
» Bernie Madoff the Role Model
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: Alex Hidell
» The top 5% wage earners earn 95% of the wages!!
Posted by: hardwroc
» We are fighting the demonization of the poor.
Posted by: hardwroc
» The richest are NOT "wage earners"
Posted by: Ignatz deFyre
» RE: Tax Burden in the new socialist state
Posted by: Lilly
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Feb 25, 2009 5:20 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Would some graphs help you to grasp the issue better? If this kind of presentation works for you then take a look at article 1 and article 2.
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» RE: Waking Up
Posted by: iolanthe
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Posted by: Oemissions on Feb 25, 2009 5:42 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A salary of over $150,000 is definitely RICH where I come from.
Proportionally, their taxes are still small.
It would take me 10 years to have a total earning of even $250,000 but I do important work. I SERVE society.
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» RE: Oemissions
Posted by: mythmorph
» Rich Relativity
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» Middle Class Under 400K
Posted by: iolanthe
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Posted by: wsx on Feb 25, 2009 5:42 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
raising taxes on the wealthy can end up killing the golden goose, be carefule what you ask for
wall street journal article on bloomberg yesterday:
But late last week Mayor Bloomberg was channelling these columns when he said that raising taxes on high earners could drive them from the city. "One percent of the households that file in this city pay something like 50% of the taxes," explained the Mayor. "In the city, that's something like 40,000 people. If a handful left, any raise would make it revenue neutral. The question is what's fair. If 1% are paying 50% of the taxes, you want to make it even more?"
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» Go ahead and kill it before it kills us
Posted by: Hiroak
» RE: Go ahead and kill it before it kills us
Posted by: wsx
» RE: Stop "investing"
Posted by: Sushi
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maxpayne on Feb 25, 2009 6:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: letting it "expire" in 2010
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: WHERE has he "folded his tent before, and how is his Tax Tent folding this time??
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: I dunno. He's folded like a tent before so
Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
Comments are closed-
Posted by: NG1 on Feb 25, 2009 7:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In other words, you can live much better paying %30 of $250,000 than 30% of $30,000. Now, I'm not suggesting that we tax everyone at a rate that would even out income levels, that would be ludicrous.
The conclusion I keep coming back to is: if you drop the tax on the $30,000 person to 20%, that would leave those people with an extra $3000 a year (the difference between a new car or not). Then, raise the taxes of the person who makes $250,000 to 32%, (also a difference of $3000) you would make up the difference while not changing the lifestyle of the rich, while at the same time improving the lifestyle of the lower middle class. I guess the point is, the rich will still be able to afford houses and cars, and with this method, the lower middle class could as well.
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» RE: A Problem With Flat Tax and Financial Equality
Posted by: Quist
» RE: A Problem With Flat Tax and Financial Equality
Posted by: sam15a
» RE: A Problem With Flat Tax and Financial Equality
Posted by: NG1
» RE: The Big Picture
Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
Comments are closed-
Posted by: xvictor on Feb 25, 2009 8:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Get rid of the offshore tax shelters
Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
» Shock and Awe the Caymen Islands !!!
Posted by: hardwroc
» RE: Best possible use of Military?
Posted by: marid
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Posted by: ABetterFuture on Feb 25, 2009 8:21 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'd have no problem seeing private jets, computers, or yachts taxed at 25-35%. The democrats and republicans have to finance their stupid wars somehow, right? Taxing income, on the other hand, is a way of discouraging savings and encouraging poverty. Tricky that way, aren't the pols--encourage poverty through tax policy, and then make such people then-dependent on your (our) programs.
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Posted by: alturn on Feb 25, 2009 9:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are many, many 'rich' people making their money off the largesse of public trough through a myriad of ways while kicking back a trifle to a significant amount of the ill gotten gains (through hidden ownership limited liability corporations) to politicians and parties on both sides. These 'free marketeers', along with people who receive government pensions far larger than those in the everyday world make up a significant part of the Rush Limbaugh nation and the limousine liberal crowd.
Yes, tax the rich. Looking under the hood, there will be found a disproportionate amount of the rich that got there with great help from the government.
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» RE: It's not just how much they pay, it is how much they get
Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
» RE: It's not just how much they pay, it is how much they get
Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willymack on Feb 25, 2009 10:43 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Liberty, egality, fraternity
Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
» RE: Liberty, egality, fraternity
Posted by: sam15a
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson on Feb 25, 2009 11:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Prime Minister Brown of the British Empire declared we should have "world order government" to solve our financial problems. Like that has worked so far? No the elite few have made a mess.
Labeling governments and leaders does not answer many questions for me. Monarchs, Dictators, Communists, Democratic, Socialistic, Theocracy leaders, etc. governments can be good if the people are happy and have a say over their own lives and future. No torture or spying is allowed and with lawyers to protect their rights.
This concentration of wealth leaves others without...food, homes, health care, a future for their children, etc. This could become a very dangerous society with chaos and fear ruling in the streets. Democracy brings peace and stability. Peace and prosperity is just that!!
Let's call the Globalists what they really are....crooks, murderers, and liars. When you think about it the few ruling elite today are all criminals. Label them as you please but that is the bottom line. Some call them Cons. I call them Globalists.
Have you read The Rise of the Fourth Reich by Marrs? He is right about many things but not about the Masons. How many of our leaders were in the Masons today? Other religious groups hate them because they believe in God and Separation of Church and State. They believe in unions and human rights. They believe in democracy not theocracy rule. I'd say many religious groups were more a threat to America than the other way around. Some countries in Europe threw them out for trying to over throw their government. They were called "cults". Any religious group which is inclusive is a cult.
We as a democracy in our Constitution believing in Separation of Church and State said, you can prosper and worship as you wish but stay out of government. We had the most varied and prosperous religious groups in the world. That wasn't enough. They wanted it all for their own self interest and tried to rule our government for their own agenda.
I am angry at Obama for keeping the Faith Based Charity group in our government...without changing the Constitution (actually violating the Constitution). Is that open government Obama? Obama could cut the budget by not giving the religious organizations billions of our tax dollars (unconstitutional and Fascist). My relative was laid off as a Social Worker in Wilmington, North Carolina over three years ago. Bet the "favored religious groups" got funding.
As a democracy our middle class is important. Where are those tax cut reversals for the top elite Democrats? You complained about that Bush tax cuts was the mandate of the 2008 election. Remember that exercise in "democracy"? The "bipartisonship rule" is only an excuse to ignore the people's agenda (bring back our rights and freedoms, get out of the wars and occupations around the world, tax the rich, and bring back our jobs and corporations by ending NAFTA, no foreign ownership of our Common Wealth, etc.). Remember President Obama and Congress?
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Posted by: sam15a on Feb 25, 2009 11:39 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While it is evidently a concept popular with those of us who have modest means, wanting to soak the richs seems to only reflect envy.
(The only downside of a flat tax is that we won't need all these tax preparation services to file our taxes. That would not be good if you are a tax preparer but great for the rest of us!)
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» RE: Why not a simple flat tax?
Posted by: wsx
» Why not? Because the real rich don't have income.
Posted by: billwald
Comments are closed-
Posted by: cbishopp on Feb 25, 2009 12:08 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But sadly I still say screw 'em.
A single individual does not need billions of dollars. There is just no need for it.
To think that they spend money on just stuff is what poor people think. They spend money on politicians, they spend money on legislation that allows them to concentrate their wealth even further. They spend money on newspapers, TV stations, and media sources that influence millions of people. They spend money on natural resources and fund companies like Monsanto that genetically modifies food so that a patent can be put on the most necessary commodities on earth. They spend money on war and bloodshed, dictators that allow business development, and prisons that protect them from the teeming ignorant masses. They loan money to governments so that they are further enriched through interest paid by taxpayers, a hidden form of slavery that has ruled America since the Civil War. They spend money on private armies and weapons and earn even better profits as a result. They buy antiques, historical artifacts often stolen from all over the world then sold to the highest bidder and put on display in their homes.
They see history and human beings as things to be bought and sold just like everything else.
Does anyone personally know someone who is super wealthy? I do. Many (but not all) of them are totally crazy. They are so removed from reality it is ridiculous. They have hundreds of people who come to them begging for hand outs and just as many more who kiss their ass. They are deeply concerned about material goods and the illusion of their own personal importance and they have private staff that deal with any and every thing they see as a hindrance. As a result they have women from Honduras raising their kids and washing their underwear for a mediocre wage.
The point is that success is one thing but egregious wealth is another. It promotes a deep selfishness and a general mistrust of humanity. It concentrates an undue amount of power to a single individual and it is my experience that NO ONE should have that much power. Great wealth is based on a perversion of human character and is often misused. Whomever supports true democracy and equality would not pursue such wealth.
I would never desire to prevent anyone from achieving their goals but what kind of person wants that much money? Better yet, what type of person is created who inherits that kind of money? Take a few minutes to check out what David Rockefeller believes and supports. It might provide some interesting reading and certainly follows what I have stated here.
That is just one example of a whole society that would never deign to live like or with the rest of us yet they feel that their every breath and decision is a gift that we should cherish.
"You know, gentlemen, that I do not owe any personal income tax. But nevertheless, I send a small check, now and then, to the Internal Revenue Service out of the kindness of my heart." --David Rockefeller
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» About the super wealthies
Posted by: sam15a
» RE: About the super wealthies
Posted by: cbishopp
» RE: About the super wealthies
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» RE: About the super wealthies
Posted by: asburykat
» RE: About the super wealthies
Posted by: sam15a
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Posted by: wsx on Feb 25, 2009 1:39 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if you want more out of this world, find a way of adding more value.
then, when you have become successul, post the reasons why you should hand over a higher percentage of the product of your efforts to a bunch of mindless politicians.
but its easier to sit on your arse, post thousand word comments all day, convincing yourself that you are on an intellectual/moral high ground, and decry those that have become successful
most of you people are a joke
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» RE: after reading all these posts
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» RE: after reading all these posts
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» RE: after reading all these posts
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Posted by: grosspointblank1986 on Feb 25, 2009 4:29 PM
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House Resolution HR-25.
Which does away with the income tax all together & replaces it with a sales tax & prebate system.
Check it out
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Posted by: Nicks on Feb 25, 2009 8:27 PM
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Obama is a politician. Simple.
He proved this by giving Hilary Clinton such a powerful role - they both argued against each others policy and ideals. He kept so many of Bush's people in power.
We didn't vote for this.
Disappointed.
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» RE: Change? What Change.
Posted by: wsx
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Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Feb 26, 2009 12:17 AM
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Our tax system should be based on taxing these natural resources in the products we buy.
Income taxes, sales taxes on services or agricultural products, property taxes on more than just land, these impinge on the principal of "your body, your property, your choice".
We should not have to pay property taxes on a car just to help raise revenue for the town or city we live in. What is the legitimate justification for such a property tax? The car is paid for, any taxes on the resources used in it should be up front at purchase time. We should not be nickel and dimed on the property we own.
The income tax discourages people from working hard because the harder you work, the higher the tax rate and the less money you actually get to keep. The government is taking money from you merely because you performed a job and earned money from it. The money you earned though was at the expense of your time, time you will not get back.
There is an incredible amount of inertia involved in changing the tax system but if we are to develop a truly fair tax system it should be based on fundamental principles and human rights. Natural resources like steel, copper, gold, diamonds, etc are a fair basis for a tax system, income from work is not.
Your body, your property, your choice.
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Posted by: reelman on Feb 26, 2009 8:05 AM
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You Say You Want A Revolution? by Avman on the louisianaconservative.com Feb 25.2009
I’m tired of it, I’m just sick and tired of it. I’m tired of being told that we must help people who absolutely refuse to help their selves. I’m tired of the very people who claim we went to war in Iraq for oil telling us that we can’t drill for oil here in the United States. I’m tired of seeing producers punished while irresponsibility is rewarded. It’s time to change that, it’s time to shrug.
They have shackled our hands with the burden of high taxes, fees, and fines.
They have shackled our legs with laws in the name of compassion, fairness, and incompetence.
They have shackled our necks with debts that we can not pay back in this life time.
And when we try to speak up on our own behalf, they whip us with shame.
We have become the slaves of socialism.
CRAWFISH NOTE: The rage will grow because this admin sincerely believes in socialism-high taxes-pacifism-bigger govt-class warfare…sincerely. Its all about buying the votes of the lower achievers with the money of higher achievers.
http://conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish
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Posted by: LuigiP on Feb 26, 2009 9:49 AM
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I’m afraid you’ve been suckered again, dude. Here are the latest statistics available for who paid what portion of the United States Federal Income Tax.
In 2006, the top 1% of US income earners, that would be people who made over $308,806, earned 22% of all income and paid 40% of all Federal Income Taxes.
The top 5% - people who earned $153,000 and above - earned 37% of all income and paid 60% of Federal Income Tax
The top 10%, people who earned at least $108,904 earned 47% of the income and paid 71% of the taxes.
If you split US income earners in half, the top half, those who earned $32,000 and over earned 87.5% of all US income and paid 97% of all Federal Income Taxes, while the bottom half, those who earned under $32,000 in 2006 earned 12.5% of income paid only 3% of Federal Income Taxes.
To say “the rich” don’t pay their fair share of taxes, you have to completely ignore facts.
That article you sent me refers to 400 people. That would be 13/100,000 of a percent of Americans. Spending your animosity on such a statistically insignificant group seems a little counterproductive, but that’s what Obama and the Democrats count on, being able to instill wealth envy in American voters to the point they can’t see economic reality. Maybe some of these 400 are just investing in tax free bonds and not contributing much to the economy, but too bad that article didn’t say how many businesses those 400 people run and so how many jobs they are responsible for. Tax the shit out of them, and they may go play golf and lay on the beach instead of taking on the headaches of running businesses that provide jobs.
It’s pretty easy to look at your own state (California) now, and see what the entitlement culture/punish the wealthy thinking/governmental regulation has done to your financial structure. Try to kill the wealthy and make all people economically equal and the economy tanks…
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» Tell Your GOP friend he's full of it, and we all know it!
Posted by: ATH
» Oh, by the way--News Flash! The Economy Has 'Tanked'
Posted by: ATH
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Posted by: ATH on Feb 26, 2009 3:55 PM
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That's why she blocked Impeachment hearings against Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, etc. These bastards tortured innocent people to death!!!These people were not all innocent, but some--probably many--were. After all, they paid other Iraqis an amount of money greater than what they made in a year to 'tell them who the terrorists were.' That's how many of these "terrorists" were rounded up! It's ridiculous! Everyone has enemies, especially over there with all the in-fighting. Who wouldn't turn in an enemy for a year's worth of money?
This is not just some idea--I know this for a fact. I don't care if you believe it or not--but why else would Pelosi block these hearings, and keep funding the Iraq war, when she ran on a platform to end the war and hold the Bush admin. accountable!?
The reason I know this is because during a House Judiciary hearing on presidential abuse of power, a repugnican got so mad that he asked if Pelosi could be subpeoned for her testimoney, because she was briefed-- And then he was cut off by a Democrat, and I think he realized he'd gone too far.
Anyway, I put this together, with what some insiders had already said--that Pelosi had been briefed on the whole rendition/torture agenda-- and realized it was true. And, it explained why she's continued--even now--to block any investigation into torture. She doesn't mind investigating for the attorney firings, etc--but NOT TORTURE because she knows she would be exposed! She just said, on Rachael Maddow's show that she oppossed Leahy's truth commission because it offered immunity for confession..but she didn't say, we should have it, just without any immunity. She didn't offer any other ideas. She just said what would show her opposition to any investigation into these crimes and did so in a way that made her sound like she was the "tough cookie" when all along she's had the power to end the Iraq war and had the power to allow, or block, as she did, Impeachment hearings in the House. And she continues to block investigations.
I'm no fan of republicans. I'm far to the left. But anyone who knows people are being tortured and does nothing about it, then helps cover it up, is no better than Bush or Cheney, or Rumsfeld, or any of the murderers in that administration!!!
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Posted by: Lilly on Feb 26, 2009 9:06 PM
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Tax the Corporations and the Rich or Take Draconian Cuts -- the Decision Is Ours
Fury at Wall St. Banks Fuels Public Action for Move Your Money Campaign
Why Congress Wants You to Shun Your Local Bookstore and Shop at Amazon Instead




