COMMENTS: 96
Is the Entire Bailout Strategy Flawed? Let's Rethink This Before It's Too Late
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America's recession is moving into its second year, with the situation only worsening.
The hope that President Obama will be able to get us out of the mess is tempered by the reality that throwing hundreds of billions of dollars at the banks has failed to restore them to health, or even to resuscitate the flow of lending.
Every day brings further evidence that the losses are greater than had been expected and more and more money will be required.
The question is at last being raised: Perhaps the entire strategy is flawed? Perhaps what is needed is a fundamental rethinking. The Paulson-Bernanke-Geithner strategy was based on the realization that maintaining the flow of credit was essential for the economy. But it was also based on a failure to grasp some of the fundamental changes in our financial sector since the Great Depression, and even in the last two decades.
For a while, there was hope that simply lowering interest rates enough, flooding the economy with money, would suffice; but three quarters of a century ago, Keynes explained why, in a downturn such as this, monetary policy is likely to be ineffective. It is like pushing on a string.
Then there was the hope that if the government stood ready to help the banks with enough money -- and enough was a lot -- confidence would be restored, and with the restoration of confidence, asset prices would increase and lending would be restored.
It soon became clear that just saying that we were ready to spend the money would not suffice. We actually had to get it into the banks. The question was how. At first, the architects of the bailout argued (with complete and utter confidence) that the best way to do this was buying the toxic assets (those in the financial market didn't like the pejorative term, so they used the term "troubled assets") -- the assets that no one in the private sector would touch with a 10-foot pole.
It should have been obvious that this could not be done in a quick way; it took a few weeks for this crushing reality to dawn on them. Besides, there was a fundamental problem: how to value the assets. And if we valued them correctly, it was clear that there would still be a big hole in banks' balance sheets, impeding their ability to lend.
Then came the idea of equity injection, without strings, so that as we poured money into the banks, they poured out money, to their executives in the form of bonuses, to their shareholders in the form of dividends.
Some of what they had left over they used to buy other banks -- to pursue strategic goals for which they could not have found private finance. The last thing in their mind was to restart lending.
The underlying problem is simple: Even in the heyday of finance, there was a huge gap between private rewards and social returns. The bank managers have taken home huge paychecks, even though, over the past five years, the net profits of many of the banks have (in total) been negative.
And the social returns have even been less -- the financial sector is supposed to allocate capital and manage risk, and it did neither well. Our economy is paying the price for these failures -- to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars.
But this ever-present problem has now grown worse. In effect, the American taxpayers are the major provider of finance to the banks. In some cases, the value of our equity injection, guarantees, and other forms of assistance dwarf the value of the "private" sector's equity contribution; yet we have no voice in how the banks are run.
This helps us understand the reason why banks have not started to lend again. Put yourself in the position of a bank manager, trying to get through this mess. At this juncture, in spite of the massive government cash injections, he sees his equity dwindling. The banks -- who prided themselves on being risk managers -- finally, and a little too late -- seem to have recognized the risk that they have taken on in the past five years.
Leverage, or borrowing, gives big returns when things are going well, but when things turn sour, it is a recipe for disaster. It was not unusual for investment banks to "leverage" themselves by borrowing amounts equal to 25 or 30 times their equity.
At "just" 25 to 1 leverage, a 4 percent fall in the price of assets wipes out a bank's net worth -- and we have seen far more precipitous falls in asset prices. Putting another $20 billion in a bank with $2 trillion of assets will be wiped out with just a 1 percent fall in asset prices. What's the point?
It seems that some of our government officials have finally gotten around to doing some of this elementary arithmetic. So they have come up with another strategy: We'll "insure" the banks, i.e., take the downside risk off of them.
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Posted by: mmckinl on Feb 2, 2009 12:16 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We need Nationalization of the banks to get a hold of the crisis and hold shareholders, bond holders and especially management of these banks and pay the piper for their catastrophe.
The "Bad Bank" will consume over a trillion dollars of tax payer money, and probably much more. Recent estimates of the losses top $5 trillion and as the economy nose dives it will only get worse! It will put in jeopardy all government spending such as SSI and Medicare!
Call, write and phone Congress today then tell your friends!
Congressional Lookup By Zip
Call Now to Stop the Bad Bank Plan
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» Your posts are very interesting and informative
Posted by: HANGTRAITORS
» I agree, but the author is naive or misleading which ever is the case....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Your posts are very interesting and informative
Posted by: mmckinl
» THE JUST SOLUTION that the system can't see
Posted by: nigelbest
» Beck : You Are The Crisis ...
Posted by: mmckinl
» Beck : You Are The Crisis ...
Posted by: mmckinl
» dont bother alerting your congress person...
Posted by: rafaeltoral
Comments are closed-
» What on earth does your comment mean?
Posted by: and_abottleofrum
» RE: What on earth does your comment mean?
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: What on earth does your comment mean?
Posted by: Xynyx
» It means he's an idiot
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» I think he is just crying blood
Posted by: Beck
» RE: I think he is just crying blood
Posted by: mmckinl
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Posted by: madmax427 on Feb 2, 2009 1:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Yup and I just said that in my post above.... with Obama in on it.
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: Urgelt on Feb 2, 2009 2:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The laws governing this are on the books, the institutions responsible for carrying it out exist and know their jobs. This is exactly what we did during the S&L crisis, and it worked.
It seems to me that Treasury's strategy is to try to prop up a bubble that has already burst. That can't work, we're just wasting money.
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» It's No Mystery
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» Nice Point!
Posted by: marid
» RE: It's No Mystery
Posted by: billwald
» RE: It's No Mystery
Posted by: Yankeeinexile
» I agree with everything you said except your last sentence....
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: WhatNow? on Feb 2, 2009 2:44 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we didn't have a government of the rich, by the rich and for the rich none of these bank bailouts (theft) would have happened. To hell with the banksters. Give the money to the people not the scum whose greed and lies have caused these messes. Quit propping up a failed system that takes from the masses to give to thieves! Quit privatizing profits while socializing the risk!
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» RE: Stiglitz asks, "What's the alternative?"
Posted by: annm
» How about some demand side economics for a change?
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» Thanks, I meant demand side.
Posted by: WhatNow?
» RE: Stiglitz asks, "What's the alternative?"
Posted by: jreinhart1
» RE: That bankruptcy bill!
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: orda on Feb 2, 2009 4:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Has been in our pockets!
Posted by: marid
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Feb 2, 2009 5:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Outraged" does not adequately reflect the Anger Americans are feeling. We want revenge (a dish best served COLD).20 BILLION in bonus's, 45.2 Billion in Profits!!! 350 Billion in replenishing their casino accounts.
Repugs had better sit down and shut up before someone calls for an 'Open Season'. They have ruined my small business and possibly my home. Not to mention my daughters future..what's the current debt for a child born today- it was about 16,000 a couple of years back, No doubt at least doubled now.
If 'socialism' comes to America, It is solely the Fault of the Repug party and their Corp co conspirators!Liberals have been screaming for REAL Free Market access, Ethics and a level playing field for decades!They have painted US into a corner by attempting to institute a Fuedalistic caste system, Big surprise the only system that will drag US out of their Greed and Irresponsiblity catastrophe is the exact Opposite!
I gotta Pitch fork with every Repugs name on it! Time to start Pitchin' Shit!
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» Purple Girl, its both parties..... Dems have been in control since 2006 of congress.
Posted by: Prophit
» socialism is already here.
Posted by: rafaeltoral
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Posted by: garcam123 on Feb 2, 2009 5:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Giethner and Summers were part and parcel involved in the deregulation of banking laws that protected investors. Clinton and Phil Gramm comitted crimes against America by doing what they did. Now Daschel, who made millions advising and mouthpiecing for healthcare special interests is going to bring change we can believe in to common Americans? see above.
Americans need to begin removing all of these professional polititians/thieves and organize to make changes by referendum and demand ethical government based on providing opportunity and support to average Americans again. I'd like to see the banks fail and the government put people to work for fair wages, but I don't see that happening...we have no power in this benovolent dictatorship!
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Posted by: JWilderJo on Feb 2, 2009 6:08 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
RT
Privacy Center
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» Don't click on that link! (IDENTITY THEFT)
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Don't click on that link! (IDENTITY THEFT)
Posted by: Squarehead
» Spam
Posted by: Bliss Doubt
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Posted by: themarla on Feb 2, 2009 6:25 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
CLICK HERE: Marla
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» Ironically, your not far from wrong... first the collapse, then food is in short supply and finally.
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: themarla on Feb 2, 2009 6:25 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
CLICK HERE: Marla
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Posted by: dipconsult on Feb 2, 2009 6:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Govt control, but not full ownership, of banks (with the possibiities of sacking the worst CEOs and directors) would open the way to a lending policy - which, iner alia, would involve support for homeowners and other elements needing stabilisation if the economy is to be "lifted".
We can't forget that Bush's Iraq war cost over $700bn - curiously the first Paulson figure put forward to cure the financial meldown! (We warned in 2002 that one doesn't go to war on a tax cut! For details - see our 2002 and 2003 papers on our website www.dipconsult.eu) Excessive credit was not confined to the private sector - Government war borrowing was also part of the reckless credit expansion.
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Posted by: mtnprivy on Feb 2, 2009 7:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We gotta imagine and create a different world. We gotta mature, grow up, and find a lifestyle that the world can live with. We have to understand and live by the cycles of life, and not just dead-end processes such as the landfill. We cannot afford to have "waste," gluteny, and thoughless burning anymore. Let us not pretend to be ignorant when we know these things already.
We are not living right, and we have to turn it around, NOW. Once we have killed our mother (earth), then we wil find out painfully where our milk was coming from.
Check out "steadystate.org" and sign their position on growth. tell others about it too. Also, check out "grist.org" and search there for old articles by "herman daly".
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Posted by: popeurbanxxiii on Feb 2, 2009 7:05 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People who have maxed out their credit cards would now have hundreds -- possibly thousands -- available for spending now. The confidence in the economy would go up. Local merchants would be doing better. The money would ultimately wind up in the banks anyways.
The problem with this recession isn't that the banks won't lend. It's that people are at the end of their credit ropes and there are far fewer credit-worthy borrowers with all of the job losses.
Put the money in the people's pockets instead of the banks and they will spend it. This will circulate the money through the economy. Putting it in the banks has just caused a taxpayer liability and the money is just sitting there doing the economy no good.
The string metaphor is only partially correct -- we are pushing on noodle-brains.
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» RE: I prefer the "Jon Stewart" Plan
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» This suggestion assumes that the crisis is NOT intentional....
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield on Feb 2, 2009 7:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» I kind of thought so too when he first ran on the Libertarian ticket.
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield
» RE: Too little too late already. This is what you get for voting for these two parties.
Posted by: Bliss Doubt
» RE: Too little too late already. This is what you get for voting for these two parties.
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield
» That is not true..... about Ron Paul, at least not most of it...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: That is not true..... about Ron Paul, at least not most of it...
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield
» RE: That is not true..... about Ron Paul, at least not most of it...
Posted by: Bliss Doubt
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Posted by: PaulK on Feb 2, 2009 7:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: gandolfshep on Feb 2, 2009 7:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Any suggestions on how to stop it??? System is broken, bought and paid for...
Posted by: gandolfshep
» Well, given the level of frustration, I can now understand why Europe is rioting....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Well, given the level of frustration, I can now understand why Europe is rioting....
Posted by: gandolfshep
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Posted by: littlepitcher on Feb 2, 2009 8:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If a "bailout bank" is opened, the crooks and incompetents get to keep their jobs and bonuses.
Such programs also derail any requests for full disclosure audits and for arrest and prosecution of white-collar criminals.
Same old affirmative action for a rich white male minority we've had to endure since the age of the club and trephine.
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Posted by: Democritus on Feb 2, 2009 8:49 AM
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» Alan Greenspan??? Hahaha you mean the first traitor in this coup???
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Feb 2, 2009 8:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
- - - - -
Once again, this time government mandated through taxation, money is being transferred from the many to the few, and then hoarded by those few or paid out as dividends to – whom? – investors, themselves part of the wealthy elite in America; again, the few.
This is the 800 pound gorilla in the room that no one wants to talk about: the fact that any effort to right the economy is compromised by the massive transfer of wealth, the greatest in the history of mankind, that has occurred over the last 20, and particularly the last eight, years. This insane money-grab by the greediest 5% of the population leaves nothing but more debt for Obama's administration to work with, and little to no money in ordinary people's pockets to spend when they regain confidence in the economy.
This needs – no, MUST – be reversed. The money to move this economy must be put back into the hands of those who spend it: the middle class and below, NOT the wealthy, who simply hoard it for their heirs or who invest it offshore (worsening our trade imbalance.)
Nationalizing many of the more egregious hoarding banks and other financial institutions would be a good start; after all, many of them have proven themselves time and again to be incompetent – or criminal – in their management of other people's money.
In the short run, Obama will have to rely on borrowing to jump-start the economy, and all of that borrowing should go to mortgage relief and jobs creation, much like what FDR did in the 1930's. But, longer term, the Obama administration will need to close gaping loopholes in the taxation of corporates and the very wealthy. Corporations, the filthy rich and conservatives whine that America has the highest corporate tax rates in the world (a point that is debatable); but the fact is that a full 85% of corporations, through those loopholes, pay no income tax at all!
Also, I would like to see tariffs for imported goods reinstated over time (I acknowledge that doing so too quickly could slam the economy) to encourage domestic production, and to no longer allow any American corporation to make its world-wide headquarters a post office box in the Caymen Islands so as to evade paying taxes.
Our economy will never get back on its feet with any kind of stability unless the wealth of this nation is owned more equitably by The People of this nation, and the onerous trend backward to a feudal society of kings and peons is reversed.
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Posted by: writerman on Feb 2, 2009 8:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Instead let's give money to the people in inverse proportion to their actually wealth. The exact opposite of Bush's tax-cuts for billionaires. Give big checks and massive tax relief to the poor. Let's redistribute wealth on a massive, historic scale. This would get the economy moving again, or would it?
Is the economy in far worse shape than even Stiglitz realises? I'm know I'm crossing swords with a guy who won the Nobel Prize in economics, but what the hell, he seems like a cool guy.
What if the 'credit crunch' is merely a symptom of something far worse lurking underneath the surface? What if their is a structural flaw in the shiny, capitalist diamond, that won't be solved by merely tinkering?
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Posted by: chance garden on Feb 2, 2009 9:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Feb 2, 2009 9:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: GuitarBill on Feb 2, 2009 9:31 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Authors: Patrick Kehoe, V.V. Charri and Lawrence Christiano.
The four myths are as follows:
[1] Bank lending to non-financial corporations and individuals has declined sharply;
[2] Interbank lending is essentially nonexistent;
[3] Commercial paper issuance by non-financial corporations has declined sharply and rates have risen to unprecedented levels;
[4] Banks play a large role in channeling funds from savers to borrowers.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this "bailout" is the biggest non-military government intervention in history since the Great Depression, yet no evidence is presented to support the TARP, nor are we told what specific market failure this $700 billion is designed to fix.
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Posted by: welshTerrier2 on Feb 2, 2009 9:32 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Stiglitz gave us the perfect hint in his article when he wrote: "The difference is that now, the incentives of the banks can be aligned better with those of the country."
The problem is not just that the banks are not aligned with the interests of the country and the American people; the problem is that corporate America is not aligned with our best interests.
Corporations wield enormous power in Washington. They write many of our laws and play a huge role in who "represents us" ... or more accurately represents them. They define many of our foreign and domestic policies. These policies do not align with the interests of the American people.
One might call such conduct "treason."
Whether the banks are nationalized or not, one thing is certain. The American banking industry must be forced to comply with the needs of the country rather than the selfish, greedy, narrow needs of their shareholders. For too long, "free marketers" have peddled the idea that what's good for business is good for the country. That has to end and it has to end NOW.
We need to awaken the American people to the idea that domestically-based corporations have to start acting in the best interests of the country and the best interests of American workers and American consumers. If they don't, they should be dismantled or at least heavily penalized through the tax code. Foreign corporations hoping to access the US consumer market should have to comply as well.
No stimulus plan, or any other plan, can possibly succeed until there is a fundamental change in the relationship between government and commerce. Any system that allows corporations to influence elections and ballot questions, and that allows corporations to put profits ahead of the national interest, and that allows jobs to be exported to the lowest bidder IS NOT SUSTAINABLE.
Are we clear on that?
Whether you call it socialism or capitalism or any other ism, our economic system must put the country first. If it doesn't, i.e. if, by design, it pits a narrow segment of the society AGAINST the best interests of the country, we will land exactly where we are now.
The issue is not about nationalizing banks; it's about mandating that corporations serve the interests of the country. Don't make the mistake of narrowly focusing only on the banks; see the big picture.
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» "...it's about mandating that corporations serve the interests of the country
Posted by: chance garden
» RE: "...it's about mandating that corporations serve the interests of the country
Posted by: welshTerrier2
» the idea that corporations exist only as a construct to further the interests of society
Posted by: chance garden
» RE: "...it's about mandating that corporations serve the interests of the country
Posted by: Yankeeinexile
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Posted by: higlommen on Feb 2, 2009 9:57 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The method of reversing this is to start at the bottom. Increase the minimum wage to at lest $10.00 an hour. That will put about 75 billion dollars into the economy beginning right now!That money will be spent on needed products and service as soon as it is received An example. In 1935 my family received enough money to buy a team of horses, as plow and enough to build a chicken coop. As a boy, I was able to get my first pair of leather shoes. The return on the investment was profound. The Farm Relief program gave our nation a big jolt. Getting money into the hands of those who work for minimum wage will work fast, and meet real need. Putting more money into the hands of the money changers will just pretty much be stuck to their hands.
Our commerce begins with the retail purchase.
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Posted by: lewb on Feb 2, 2009 10:17 AM
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Posted by: ralphzilla on Feb 2, 2009 11:00 AM
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> Citibank is currently valued at around $25 Billion (probably closer to zero). We could have bought them 7 TIMES over with all the dough we have tossed their way!
> Are these so called bonuses, really hush money to keep all of the crimes from being exposed?
> Just because the uber rich have shifted their dirty money to the Dems, doesn't mean that we still shouldn't eat them.
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Posted by: DaBear on Feb 2, 2009 11:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For being such a smart guy, Obama is turning out to be quite a nice looking tool. At least he pronounces the English language properly most of the time....
This is the great leader.... holy shit. my bad barbituate leftism...
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Posted by: Sojourner on Feb 2, 2009 12:25 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So I hope that, while all the talk of propping up existing structures goes on, someone is also working at preventing more American wealth from going to offshore accounts and allowing instant transfers of domestic accounts to offshore locations.
The rats are deserting the ship, and taking our national resources with them. They need to be trapped. As I have not heard a word about a behind-the-scenes plan to shut down the escape hatch, I may be fooling myself.
That is to say, freeze all bank assets immediately, or as soon as we have an army ready to take over its management.
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Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Feb 2, 2009 1:42 PM
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Gee, do you think handing the keys of the kingdom over to crooks more clever, devious and power-connected than ANY movie character bank robber James Bond foe, is a bad idea or a good one?
On a moral level, at least Bonnie and Clyde were honest bank robbers. These guys pretend to be helpful free market capitalists. This entire fiasco will be analyzed and criticized for the next several eons. The answer to the DUH questions will never change.
IT WAS A SUCKY IDEA FOR THE PEOPLE BUT GREAT FOR THE ROBBER BARONS.
And they said Marie Antoinette was clueless and selfish. At least she really can blame inner stupidity. These criminals pretend to be SHOCKED their plans "don't work" as they laugh all the way to the bank.
Granny's crazy videos = Go get a chuckle!
Luv,
Granny
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Posted by: gexrobert on Feb 2, 2009 2:04 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author hit on something that is hopeful in this mess:
"The difference is that now, the incentives of the banks can be aligned better with those of the country. And it is in the national interest that prudent lending be restarted."
If banks were create money for infrastructure projects and other things of value for the society, then maybe the focus on value for the society would start to push the system in a different direction.
All of FDRs spending did not stop the depression. It did stop an insurrection. World War II ended the last depression, at a cost of 50 million lives. Perhaps the financial whisperers in the halls of power are starting to go down that path again. Obama will have some real decisions to come up with
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Posted by: Bliss Doubt on Feb 2, 2009 3:08 PM
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Posted by: particle61 on Feb 2, 2009 3:17 PM
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see the bank run blog for a daily dose of depression expression...
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Posted by: GeoL on Feb 2, 2009 5:19 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's what our Constitution tried to establish, a government that would counterbalance the personal drive of a monarchy/aristocracy with a force that would "provide for the common welfare." Somehow, that concept has been lost, overwhelmed by the "greed is good" ethic so proudly espoused by the Reagan Revolution. Less a revolution than a usurpation, the devaluation of Government as a force for the common good has brought us inevitably to the present crisis. And unless we get past the ingrained aversion to the term and bring in Socialism (government supporting the common good against the greed of the individual) we will sink ever further into this mire until we get back to feudalism, with the mass of serfs bound to and promoting the good of their lords, the Capitalists
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» RE: Perhaps it's time
Posted by: wrinklemomma
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Posted by: Ghoulman on Feb 2, 2009 6:27 PM
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It’s Not Going to Be OK
by Chris Hedges
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/02/02-0
Quote...
"Wolin, who taught political philosophy at the University of California in Berkeley and at Princeton, in his book "Democracy Incorporated" uses the phrase 'inverted totalitarianism' to describe our system of power. Inverted totalitarianism, unlike classical totalitarianism, does not revolve around a demagogue or charismatic leader. It finds its expression in the anonymity of the corporate state. It purports to cherish democracy, patriotism and the Constitution while cynically manipulating internal levers to subvert and thwart democratic institutions. Political candidates are elected in popular votes by citizens, but they must raise staggering amounts of corporate funds to compete. They are beholden to armies of corporate lobbyists in Washington or state capitals who write the legislation. A corporate media controls nearly everything we read, watch or hear and imposes a bland uniformity of opinion or diverts us with trivia and celebrity gossip. In classical totalitarian regimes, such as Nazi fascism or Soviet communism, economics was subordinate to politics. "Under inverted totalitarianism the reverse is true," Wolin writes. "Economics dominates politics-and with that domination comes different forms of ruthlessness." "
...
Is it just me or is this the most immediate understanding of today? BTW, it would be great to see this article on Alternet. Just a thought.
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Posted by: undrgrndgirl on Feb 2, 2009 7:35 PM
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the alternative is to wipe out consumer credit debt, student loan debt, create REAL jobs with REAL living wages (none of this $6.00/hr bullshit), and implementing single-payer not-for-profit health care...
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Posted by: PaulC on Feb 2, 2009 8:48 PM
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Capitalism works fine as long as there is competition and businesses remain small.
The Standard Oil monopoly taught us that big is bad. That is why we passed laws against monopolies.
But over the last three decades there has been a runaway boom in mergers and acquisitions. With that concentration in power comes a complete breakdown of the free market system, and of democracy itself, leading to the current crisis.
We are being sold out to the lowest bidder.
Nothing will change until the monopolies are broken up in every area of business.
That is the challenge before us.
peace,
Paul
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Posted by: Man_vs_Kleptocracy on Feb 2, 2009 11:51 PM
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The amount that corporate criminals will hijack from the U.S. for this one grandSlam theft will be more than ALL past wars, the New Deal, Marshall Plan, NASA program, etc. (According to CRS, the Congressional Research Service).
This is naked Fascism that would have never happened if we had put reasonably honest people into govnernment to begin with. A congress full of people the like of Ron Paul, Cynthia McKinney and Dennis Kucinich would have never allowed this mass theft to occur. Reason being: they would have already abolished the private "Federal Reserve" Bank corporation (a privte scam) and restored honest money to the land.
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Posted by: Hans B on Feb 3, 2009 1:10 AM
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That's the more easy for them since they don't have to run fast or far. No police will be looking for them. We've structured the capitalist economy so, that corporation owners (shareholders) have limited (or no) liability, and corporate managers have only the responsibility to enrich the shareholders. Any environmental, social or economic harm done by the company can legally be passed on to society as a whole.
And as long as we don't remedy this, corporations will be encouraged to plunder the world, and their leaders will be living in golden castles.
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Posted by: macrumpton on Feb 3, 2009 6:49 AM
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On the other hand, lending money to the banks with strict stipulations on how it can be used with a variable rate proportional to how the bank profited on using the money would do the same thing and it would be a lot less scary.
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Posted by: Defenestrator on Feb 3, 2009 9:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Instead of lending more (which I think it a flawed strategy anyways) the "Too Big To Fail So We Must Bail Them Out" banks have used our money to undergo FURTHER mergers... making them even BIGGER!
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Posted by: jimmie d on Feb 3, 2009 10:11 PM
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Posted by: Blair T. Longley on Feb 5, 2009 4:06 PM
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in a thread entitled
"Some Monetary System articles"
on our English language forum at:
http://www.marijuanaparty.ca/forum.html
The political economy is inside human ecology.
The debt controls were made by death controls.
The money system depends on the murder system.
The banksters are the best organized criminals.
Nobody else can compete with their powers to
make money out of nothing, which they used
to buy control of the mass media
and the political processes ...
The world is controlled by huge lies,
backed up with lot of violence, and
the radical truth is that we are
now headed towards the only
real solutions left ...
collapses and genocides.
The only theoretical alternatives
may be to negotiate better forms
of death controls, however, that
is practically impossible to do.
Therefore, the way the books
shall actually be balanced is
with blood flowing in rivers.
The world's financial system
has become electronic fraud,
backed with atomic weapons.
Since the violence can NOT
make the lies it enforces
become true, therefore,
the whole thing is now
headed towards some
psychotic breakdown.
There is no reasonable hope for the future.
During the collapses and genocides,
the banksters will probable be able
to ride through, and therefore, the
New World Order fascist plutocracy
will emerge triumphant from the
collapses and genocides that
they deliberately caused.
Everything is going to gang up on us
during the next few years, & we are
on the wildest, untested ride!!!!!!!
I do NOT expect to survive this ...
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Posted by: itouch backup on Feb 11, 2009 1:21 AM
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itouch backup
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Posted by: mmckinl on Feb 2, 2009 12:16 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We need Nationalization of the banks to get a hold of the crisis and hold shareholders, bond holders and especially management of these banks and pay the piper for their catastrophe.
The "Bad Bank" will consume over a trillion dollars of tax payer money, and probably much more. Recent estimates of the losses top $5 trillion and as the economy nose dives it will only get worse! It will put in jeopardy all government spending such as SSI and Medicare!
Call, write and phone Congress today then tell your friends!
Congressional Lookup By Zip
Call Now to Stop the Bad Bank Plan
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» Your posts are very interesting and informative
Posted by: HANGTRAITORS
» I agree, but the author is naive or misleading which ever is the case....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Your posts are very interesting and informative
Posted by: mmckinl
» THE JUST SOLUTION that the system can't see
Posted by: nigelbest
» Beck : You Are The Crisis ...
Posted by: mmckinl
» Beck : You Are The Crisis ...
Posted by: mmckinl
» dont bother alerting your congress person...
Posted by: rafaeltoral
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» What on earth does your comment mean?
Posted by: and_abottleofrum
» RE: What on earth does your comment mean?
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: What on earth does your comment mean?
Posted by: Xynyx
» It means he's an idiot
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» I think he is just crying blood
Posted by: Beck
» RE: I think he is just crying blood
Posted by: mmckinl
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Posted by: madmax427 on Feb 2, 2009 1:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Yup and I just said that in my post above.... with Obama in on it.
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: Urgelt on Feb 2, 2009 2:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The laws governing this are on the books, the institutions responsible for carrying it out exist and know their jobs. This is exactly what we did during the S&L crisis, and it worked.
It seems to me that Treasury's strategy is to try to prop up a bubble that has already burst. That can't work, we're just wasting money.
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» It's No Mystery
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» Nice Point!
Posted by: marid
» RE: It's No Mystery
Posted by: billwald
» RE: It's No Mystery
Posted by: Yankeeinexile
» I agree with everything you said except your last sentence....
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: WhatNow? on Feb 2, 2009 2:44 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we didn't have a government of the rich, by the rich and for the rich none of these bank bailouts (theft) would have happened. To hell with the banksters. Give the money to the people not the scum whose greed and lies have caused these messes. Quit propping up a failed system that takes from the masses to give to thieves! Quit privatizing profits while socializing the risk!
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» RE: Stiglitz asks, "What's the alternative?"
Posted by: annm
» How about some demand side economics for a change?
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» Thanks, I meant demand side.
Posted by: WhatNow?
» RE: Stiglitz asks, "What's the alternative?"
Posted by: jreinhart1
» RE: That bankruptcy bill!
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: orda on Feb 2, 2009 4:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Has been in our pockets!
Posted by: marid
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Feb 2, 2009 5:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Outraged" does not adequately reflect the Anger Americans are feeling. We want revenge (a dish best served COLD).20 BILLION in bonus's, 45.2 Billion in Profits!!! 350 Billion in replenishing their casino accounts.
Repugs had better sit down and shut up before someone calls for an 'Open Season'. They have ruined my small business and possibly my home. Not to mention my daughters future..what's the current debt for a child born today- it was about 16,000 a couple of years back, No doubt at least doubled now.
If 'socialism' comes to America, It is solely the Fault of the Repug party and their Corp co conspirators!Liberals have been screaming for REAL Free Market access, Ethics and a level playing field for decades!They have painted US into a corner by attempting to institute a Fuedalistic caste system, Big surprise the only system that will drag US out of their Greed and Irresponsiblity catastrophe is the exact Opposite!
I gotta Pitch fork with every Repugs name on it! Time to start Pitchin' Shit!
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» Purple Girl, its both parties..... Dems have been in control since 2006 of congress.
Posted by: Prophit
» socialism is already here.
Posted by: rafaeltoral
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Posted by: garcam123 on Feb 2, 2009 5:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Giethner and Summers were part and parcel involved in the deregulation of banking laws that protected investors. Clinton and Phil Gramm comitted crimes against America by doing what they did. Now Daschel, who made millions advising and mouthpiecing for healthcare special interests is going to bring change we can believe in to common Americans? see above.
Americans need to begin removing all of these professional polititians/thieves and organize to make changes by referendum and demand ethical government based on providing opportunity and support to average Americans again. I'd like to see the banks fail and the government put people to work for fair wages, but I don't see that happening...we have no power in this benovolent dictatorship!
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Posted by: JWilderJo on Feb 2, 2009 6:08 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
RT
Privacy Center
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» Don't click on that link! (IDENTITY THEFT)
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Don't click on that link! (IDENTITY THEFT)
Posted by: Squarehead
» Spam
Posted by: Bliss Doubt
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Posted by: themarla on Feb 2, 2009 6:25 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
CLICK HERE: Marla
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» Ironically, your not far from wrong... first the collapse, then food is in short supply and finally.
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: themarla on Feb 2, 2009 6:25 AM
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CLICK HERE: Marla
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Posted by: dipconsult on Feb 2, 2009 6:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Govt control, but not full ownership, of banks (with the possibiities of sacking the worst CEOs and directors) would open the way to a lending policy - which, iner alia, would involve support for homeowners and other elements needing stabilisation if the economy is to be "lifted".
We can't forget that Bush's Iraq war cost over $700bn - curiously the first Paulson figure put forward to cure the financial meldown! (We warned in 2002 that one doesn't go to war on a tax cut! For details - see our 2002 and 2003 papers on our website www.dipconsult.eu) Excessive credit was not confined to the private sector - Government war borrowing was also part of the reckless credit expansion.
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Posted by: mtnprivy on Feb 2, 2009 7:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We gotta imagine and create a different world. We gotta mature, grow up, and find a lifestyle that the world can live with. We have to understand and live by the cycles of life, and not just dead-end processes such as the landfill. We cannot afford to have "waste," gluteny, and thoughless burning anymore. Let us not pretend to be ignorant when we know these things already.
We are not living right, and we have to turn it around, NOW. Once we have killed our mother (earth), then we wil find out painfully where our milk was coming from.
Check out "steadystate.org" and sign their position on growth. tell others about it too. Also, check out "grist.org" and search there for old articles by "herman daly".
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Posted by: popeurbanxxiii on Feb 2, 2009 7:05 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People who have maxed out their credit cards would now have hundreds -- possibly thousands -- available for spending now. The confidence in the economy would go up. Local merchants would be doing better. The money would ultimately wind up in the banks anyways.
The problem with this recession isn't that the banks won't lend. It's that people are at the end of their credit ropes and there are far fewer credit-worthy borrowers with all of the job losses.
Put the money in the people's pockets instead of the banks and they will spend it. This will circulate the money through the economy. Putting it in the banks has just caused a taxpayer liability and the money is just sitting there doing the economy no good.
The string metaphor is only partially correct -- we are pushing on noodle-brains.
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» RE: I prefer the "Jon Stewart" Plan
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» This suggestion assumes that the crisis is NOT intentional....
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield on Feb 2, 2009 7:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» I kind of thought so too when he first ran on the Libertarian ticket.
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield
» RE: Too little too late already. This is what you get for voting for these two parties.
Posted by: Bliss Doubt
» RE: Too little too late already. This is what you get for voting for these two parties.
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield
» That is not true..... about Ron Paul, at least not most of it...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: That is not true..... about Ron Paul, at least not most of it...
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield
» RE: That is not true..... about Ron Paul, at least not most of it...
Posted by: Bliss Doubt
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Posted by: PaulK on Feb 2, 2009 7:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: gandolfshep on Feb 2, 2009 7:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Any suggestions on how to stop it??? System is broken, bought and paid for...
Posted by: gandolfshep
» Well, given the level of frustration, I can now understand why Europe is rioting....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Well, given the level of frustration, I can now understand why Europe is rioting....
Posted by: gandolfshep
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Posted by: littlepitcher on Feb 2, 2009 8:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If a "bailout bank" is opened, the crooks and incompetents get to keep their jobs and bonuses.
Such programs also derail any requests for full disclosure audits and for arrest and prosecution of white-collar criminals.
Same old affirmative action for a rich white male minority we've had to endure since the age of the club and trephine.
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Posted by: Democritus on Feb 2, 2009 8:49 AM
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» Alan Greenspan??? Hahaha you mean the first traitor in this coup???
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Feb 2, 2009 8:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
- - - - -
Once again, this time government mandated through taxation, money is being transferred from the many to the few, and then hoarded by those few or paid out as dividends to – whom? – investors, themselves part of the wealthy elite in America; again, the few.
This is the 800 pound gorilla in the room that no one wants to talk about: the fact that any effort to right the economy is compromised by the massive transfer of wealth, the greatest in the history of mankind, that has occurred over the last 20, and particularly the last eight, years. This insane money-grab by the greediest 5% of the population leaves nothing but more debt for Obama's administration to work with, and little to no money in ordinary people's pockets to spend when they regain confidence in the economy.
This needs – no, MUST – be reversed. The money to move this economy must be put back into the hands of those who spend it: the middle class and below, NOT the wealthy, who simply hoard it for their heirs or who invest it offshore (worsening our trade imbalance.)
Nationalizing many of the more egregious hoarding banks and other financial institutions would be a good start; after all, many of them have proven themselves time and again to be incompetent – or criminal – in their management of other people's money.
In the short run, Obama will have to rely on borrowing to jump-start the economy, and all of that borrowing should go to mortgage relief and jobs creation, much like what FDR did in the 1930's. But, longer term, the Obama administration will need to close gaping loopholes in the taxation of corporates and the very wealthy. Corporations, the filthy rich and conservatives whine that America has the highest corporate tax rates in the world (a point that is debatable); but the fact is that a full 85% of corporations, through those loopholes, pay no income tax at all!
Also, I would like to see tariffs for imported goods reinstated over time (I acknowledge that doing so too quickly could slam the economy) to encourage domestic production, and to no longer allow any American corporation to make its world-wide headquarters a post office box in the Caymen Islands so as to evade paying taxes.
Our economy will never get back on its feet with any kind of stability unless the wealth of this nation is owned more equitably by The People of this nation, and the onerous trend backward to a feudal society of kings and peons is reversed.
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Posted by: writerman on Feb 2, 2009 8:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Instead let's give money to the people in inverse proportion to their actually wealth. The exact opposite of Bush's tax-cuts for billionaires. Give big checks and massive tax relief to the poor. Let's redistribute wealth on a massive, historic scale. This would get the economy moving again, or would it?
Is the economy in far worse shape than even Stiglitz realises? I'm know I'm crossing swords with a guy who won the Nobel Prize in economics, but what the hell, he seems like a cool guy.
What if the 'credit crunch' is merely a symptom of something far worse lurking underneath the surface? What if their is a structural flaw in the shiny, capitalist diamond, that won't be solved by merely tinkering?
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Posted by: chance garden on Feb 2, 2009 9:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Feb 2, 2009 9:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: GuitarBill on Feb 2, 2009 9:31 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Authors: Patrick Kehoe, V.V. Charri and Lawrence Christiano.
The four myths are as follows:
[1] Bank lending to non-financial corporations and individuals has declined sharply;
[2] Interbank lending is essentially nonexistent;
[3] Commercial paper issuance by non-financial corporations has declined sharply and rates have risen to unprecedented levels;
[4] Banks play a large role in channeling funds from savers to borrowers.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this "bailout" is the biggest non-military government intervention in history since the Great Depression, yet no evidence is presented to support the TARP, nor are we told what specific market failure this $700 billion is designed to fix.
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Posted by: welshTerrier2 on Feb 2, 2009 9:32 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Stiglitz gave us the perfect hint in his article when he wrote: "The difference is that now, the incentives of the banks can be aligned better with those of the country."
The problem is not just that the banks are not aligned with the interests of the country and the American people; the problem is that corporate America is not aligned with our best interests.
Corporations wield enormous power in Washington. They write many of our laws and play a huge role in who "represents us" ... or more accurately represents them. They define many of our foreign and domestic policies. These policies do not align with the interests of the American people.
One might call such conduct "treason."
Whether the banks are nationalized or not, one thing is certain. The American banking industry must be forced to comply with the needs of the country rather than the selfish, greedy, narrow needs of their shareholders. For too long, "free marketers" have peddled the idea that what's good for business is good for the country. That has to end and it has to end NOW.
We need to awaken the American people to the idea that domestically-based corporations have to start acting in the best interests of the country and the best interests of American workers and American consumers. If they don't, they should be dismantled or at least heavily penalized through the tax code. Foreign corporations hoping to access the US consumer market should have to comply as well.
No stimulus plan, or any other plan, can possibly succeed until there is a fundamental change in the relationship between government and commerce. Any system that allows corporations to influence elections and ballot questions, and that allows corporations to put profits ahead of the national interest, and that allows jobs to be exported to the lowest bidder IS NOT SUSTAINABLE.
Are we clear on that?
Whether you call it socialism or capitalism or any other ism, our economic system must put the country first. If it doesn't, i.e. if, by design, it pits a narrow segment of the society AGAINST the best interests of the country, we will land exactly where we are now.
The issue is not about nationalizing banks; it's about mandating that corporations serve the interests of the country. Don't make the mistake of narrowly focusing only on the banks; see the big picture.
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» "...it's about mandating that corporations serve the interests of the country
Posted by: chance garden
» RE: "...it's about mandating that corporations serve the interests of the country
Posted by: welshTerrier2
» the idea that corporations exist only as a construct to further the interests of society
Posted by: chance garden
» RE: "...it's about mandating that corporations serve the interests of the country
Posted by: Yankeeinexile
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Posted by: higlommen on Feb 2, 2009 9:57 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The method of reversing this is to start at the bottom. Increase the minimum wage to at lest $10.00 an hour. That will put about 75 billion dollars into the economy beginning right now!That money will be spent on needed products and service as soon as it is received An example. In 1935 my family received enough money to buy a team of horses, as plow and enough to build a chicken coop. As a boy, I was able to get my first pair of leather shoes. The return on the investment was profound. The Farm Relief program gave our nation a big jolt. Getting money into the hands of those who work for minimum wage will work fast, and meet real need. Putting more money into the hands of the money changers will just pretty much be stuck to their hands.
Our commerce begins with the retail purchase.
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Posted by: lewb on Feb 2, 2009 10:17 AM
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Posted by: ralphzilla on Feb 2, 2009 11:00 AM
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> Citibank is currently valued at around $25 Billion (probably closer to zero). We could have bought them 7 TIMES over with all the dough we have tossed their way!
> Are these so called bonuses, really hush money to keep all of the crimes from being exposed?
> Just because the uber rich have shifted their dirty money to the Dems, doesn't mean that we still shouldn't eat them.
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Posted by: DaBear on Feb 2, 2009 11:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For being such a smart guy, Obama is turning out to be quite a nice looking tool. At least he pronounces the English language properly most of the time....
This is the great leader.... holy shit. my bad barbituate leftism...
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Posted by: Sojourner on Feb 2, 2009 12:25 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So I hope that, while all the talk of propping up existing structures goes on, someone is also working at preventing more American wealth from going to offshore accounts and allowing instant transfers of domestic accounts to offshore locations.
The rats are deserting the ship, and taking our national resources with them. They need to be trapped. As I have not heard a word about a behind-the-scenes plan to shut down the escape hatch, I may be fooling myself.
That is to say, freeze all bank assets immediately, or as soon as we have an army ready to take over its management.
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Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Feb 2, 2009 1:42 PM
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Gee, do you think handing the keys of the kingdom over to crooks more clever, devious and power-connected than ANY movie character bank robber James Bond foe, is a bad idea or a good one?
On a moral level, at least Bonnie and Clyde were honest bank robbers. These guys pretend to be helpful free market capitalists. This entire fiasco will be analyzed and criticized for the next several eons. The answer to the DUH questions will never change.
IT WAS A SUCKY IDEA FOR THE PEOPLE BUT GREAT FOR THE ROBBER BARONS.
And they said Marie Antoinette was clueless and selfish. At least she really can blame inner stupidity. These criminals pretend to be SHOCKED their plans "don't work" as they laugh all the way to the bank.
Granny's crazy videos = Go get a chuckle!
Luv,
Granny
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Posted by: gexrobert on Feb 2, 2009 2:04 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author hit on something that is hopeful in this mess:
"The difference is that now, the incentives of the banks can be aligned better with those of the country. And it is in the national interest that prudent lending be restarted."
If banks were create money for infrastructure projects and other things of value for the society, then maybe the focus on value for the society would start to push the system in a different direction.
All of FDRs spending did not stop the depression. It did stop an insurrection. World War II ended the last depression, at a cost of 50 million lives. Perhaps the financial whisperers in the halls of power are starting to go down that path again. Obama will have some real decisions to come up with
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Posted by: Bliss Doubt on Feb 2, 2009 3:08 PM
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Posted by: particle61 on Feb 2, 2009 3:17 PM
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see the bank run blog for a daily dose of depression expression...
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Posted by: GeoL on Feb 2, 2009 5:19 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's what our Constitution tried to establish, a government that would counterbalance the personal drive of a monarchy/aristocracy with a force that would "provide for the common welfare." Somehow, that concept has been lost, overwhelmed by the "greed is good" ethic so proudly espoused by the Reagan Revolution. Less a revolution than a usurpation, the devaluation of Government as a force for the common good has brought us inevitably to the present crisis. And unless we get past the ingrained aversion to the term and bring in Socialism (government supporting the common good against the greed of the individual) we will sink ever further into this mire until we get back to feudalism, with the mass of serfs bound to and promoting the good of their lords, the Capitalists
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» RE: Perhaps it's time
Posted by: wrinklemomma
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Posted by: Ghoulman on Feb 2, 2009 6:27 PM
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It’s Not Going to Be OK
by Chris Hedges
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/02/02-0
Quote...
"Wolin, who taught political philosophy at the University of California in Berkeley and at Princeton, in his book "Democracy Incorporated" uses the phrase 'inverted totalitarianism' to describe our system of power. Inverted totalitarianism, unlike classical totalitarianism, does not revolve around a demagogue or charismatic leader. It finds its expression in the anonymity of the corporate state. It purports to cherish democracy, patriotism and the Constitution while cynically manipulating internal levers to subvert and thwart democratic institutions. Political candidates are elected in popular votes by citizens, but they must raise staggering amounts of corporate funds to compete. They are beholden to armies of corporate lobbyists in Washington or state capitals who write the legislation. A corporate media controls nearly everything we read, watch or hear and imposes a bland uniformity of opinion or diverts us with trivia and celebrity gossip. In classical totalitarian regimes, such as Nazi fascism or Soviet communism, economics was subordinate to politics. "Under inverted totalitarianism the reverse is true," Wolin writes. "Economics dominates politics-and with that domination comes different forms of ruthlessness." "
...
Is it just me or is this the most immediate understanding of today? BTW, it would be great to see this article on Alternet. Just a thought.
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Posted by: undrgrndgirl on Feb 2, 2009 7:35 PM
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the alternative is to wipe out consumer credit debt, student loan debt, create REAL jobs with REAL living wages (none of this $6.00/hr bullshit), and implementing single-payer not-for-profit health care...
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Posted by: PaulC on Feb 2, 2009 8:48 PM
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Capitalism works fine as long as there is competition and businesses remain small.
The Standard Oil monopoly taught us that big is bad. That is why we passed laws against monopolies.
But over the last three decades there has been a runaway boom in mergers and acquisitions. With that concentration in power comes a complete breakdown of the free market system, and of democracy itself, leading to the current crisis.
We are being sold out to the lowest bidder.
Nothing will change until the monopolies are broken up in every area of business.
That is the challenge before us.
peace,
Paul
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Posted by: Man_vs_Kleptocracy on Feb 2, 2009 11:51 PM
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The amount that corporate criminals will hijack from the U.S. for this one grandSlam theft will be more than ALL past wars, the New Deal, Marshall Plan, NASA program, etc. (According to CRS, the Congressional Research Service).
This is naked Fascism that would have never happened if we had put reasonably honest people into govnernment to begin with. A congress full of people the like of Ron Paul, Cynthia McKinney and Dennis Kucinich would have never allowed this mass theft to occur. Reason being: they would have already abolished the private "Federal Reserve" Bank corporation (a privte scam) and restored honest money to the land.
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Posted by: Hans B on Feb 3, 2009 1:10 AM
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That's the more easy for them since they don't have to run fast or far. No police will be looking for them. We've structured the capitalist economy so, that corporation owners (shareholders) have limited (or no) liability, and corporate managers have only the responsibility to enrich the shareholders. Any environmental, social or economic harm done by the company can legally be passed on to society as a whole.
And as long as we don't remedy this, corporations will be encouraged to plunder the world, and their leaders will be living in golden castles.
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Posted by: macrumpton on Feb 3, 2009 6:49 AM
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On the other hand, lending money to the banks with strict stipulations on how it can be used with a variable rate proportional to how the bank profited on using the money would do the same thing and it would be a lot less scary.
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Posted by: Defenestrator on Feb 3, 2009 9:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Instead of lending more (which I think it a flawed strategy anyways) the "Too Big To Fail So We Must Bail Them Out" banks have used our money to undergo FURTHER mergers... making them even BIGGER!
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Posted by: jimmie d on Feb 3, 2009 10:11 PM
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Posted by: Blair T. Longley on Feb 5, 2009 4:06 PM
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in a thread entitled
"Some Monetary System articles"
on our English language forum at:
http://www.marijuanaparty.ca/forum.html
The political economy is inside human ecology.
The debt controls were made by death controls.
The money system depends on the murder system.
The banksters are the best organized criminals.
Nobody else can compete with their powers to
make money out of nothing, which they used
to buy control of the mass media
and the political processes ...
The world is controlled by huge lies,
backed up with lot of violence, and
the radical truth is that we are
now headed towards the only
real solutions left ...
collapses and genocides.
The only theoretical alternatives
may be to negotiate better forms
of death controls, however, that
is practically impossible to do.
Therefore, the way the books
shall actually be balanced is
with blood flowing in rivers.
The world's financial system
has become electronic fraud,
backed with atomic weapons.
Since the violence can NOT
make the lies it enforces
become true, therefore,
the whole thing is now
headed towards some
psychotic breakdown.
There is no reasonable hope for the future.
During the collapses and genocides,
the banksters will probable be able
to ride through, and therefore, the
New World Order fascist plutocracy
will emerge triumphant from the
collapses and genocides that
they deliberately caused.
Everything is going to gang up on us
during the next few years, & we are
on the wildest, untested ride!!!!!!!
I do NOT expect to survive this ...
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Posted by: itouch backup on Feb 11, 2009 1:21 AM
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itouch backup
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Tax the Corporations and the Rich or Take Draconian Cuts -- the Decision Is Ours
Home Underwater? Walk Away from Geithner's Perverse 'Homeowner Relief' Plan
Fury at Wall St. Banks Fuels Public Action for Move Your Money Campaign




