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Are Students the New Indentured Servants?

College student-loan debt has revived the spirit of indenture for a sizable proportion of contemporary Americans.
February 5, 2009  |  
 
 
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When we think of the founding of the early colonies, we usually think of the journey to freedom, in particular of the Puritans fleeing religious persecution to settle the Massachusetts Bay Colony. But it was not so for a majority of the first Europeans who emigrated to these shores. "Between one-half and two-thirds of all white immigrants to the British colonies arrived under indenture,” according to the economic historian David W. Galenson, a total of three hundred thousand to four hundred thousand people. Indenture was not an isolated practice but a dominant aspect of labor and life in early America.

Rather than Plymouth, Jamestown was a more typical example of colonial settlement, founded in 1607 as a mercantile venture under the auspices of the Virginia Company, a prototype of "joint-stock” corporations and venture capitalism. The first colonists fared badly because, coming primarily from gentry, they had little practical skill at farming and were ravaged by starvation and disease. In 1620, the Virginia Company shifted to a policy of indentured servitude to draw labor fit to work the tobacco colonies. Indenture had been a common practice in England, but its terms were relatively short, typically a year, and closely regulated by law. The innovation of the Virginia Company was to extend the practice of indenture to America, but at a much higher obligation, of four to seven years, because of the added cost of transit, and also because of the added cost of the brokerage system that arose around it. In England, contracts of indenture were directly between the landowner and servant, whereas now merchants or brokers in England’s ports signed prospective workers, then sold the contracts to shippers or to colonial landowners upon the servants’ arrival in America, who in turn could re-sell the contracts.

By about 1660, planters "increasingly found African slaves a less expensive source of labor,” as Galenson puts it. An economically minded historian like Galenson argues that the system of indenture was rational, free, and fair -- one had a free choice to enter into the arrangement, some of those indentured eventually prospered, and it was only rational that the terms be high because of the cost of transit -- but most other historians, from Edmund S. Morgan to Marcus Rediker, agree that indentured servitude was an exploitive system of labor, in many instances a form of bondage akin to slavery. For the bound, it meant long hours of hard work, oftentimes abuse, terms sometimes extended by fiat of the landowner, little regulation or legal recourse for laborers, and the onerous physical circumstances of the new world, in which two-thirds died before fulfilling their terms.

College student-loan debt has revived the spirit of indenture for a sizable proportion of contemporary Americans. It is not a minor threshold that young people entering adult society and work, or those returning to college seeking enhanced credentials, might pass through easily. Because of its unprecedented and escalating amounts, it is a major constraint that looms over the lives of those so contracted, binding individuals for a significant part of their future work lives. Although it has more varied application, less direct effects, and less severe conditions than colonial indenture did (some have less and some greater debt, some attain better incomes) and it does not bind one to a particular job, student debt permeates everyday experience with concern over the monthly chit and encumbers job and life choices. It also takes a page from indenture in the extensive brokerage system it has bred, from which more than four thousand banks take profit. At core, student debt is a labor issue, as colonial indenture was, subsisting off the desire of those less privileged to gain better opportunities and enforcing a control on their future labor. One of the goals of the planners of the modern U.S. university system after the Second World War was to displace what they saw as an aristocracy that had become entrenched at elite schools; instead they promoted equal opportunity in order to build America through its best talent. The rising tide of student debt reinforces rather than dissolves the discriminations of class, counteracting the meritocracy. Finally, I believe that the current system of college debt violates the spirit of American freedom in leading those less privileged to bind their futures.

In a previous essay, "Debt Education,” in the summer 2006 issue of Dissent, I detailed the basic facts and figures of student-loan debt, pointed out how it rewrites the social contract from a public entitlement to education to a privatized service, and teased out how it teaches less than humanistic lessons, about education as a consumer good, about higher education as job training rather than intellectual exploration, and about civil society as a commercial market rather than a polis. I also promoted some solutions, notably the U.S. Labor Party’s proposal for FreeHigherEd and fortified forms of public service linked with college. Here, I look more seriously at the analogy to indenture. While it might not be as direct or extreme a constraint as indentured servitude, student debt constrains a great many of Americans. It represents a turn in American thought and hope to permit such a constraint on those attempting to gain a franchise in the adult or work world. I also want to promote a relatively little known proposal for relieving some of the most inequitable terms of student debt, "Income Contingent Loans.”

INDENTURED SERVITUDE seems a strange and distant historical practice, like debtors’ prison. But there are many ways that college student-loan debt revises for the twenty-first century some of its ethos and features:

• PREVALENCE Student-loan debt is now a prevalent mode of financing higher education, applying to two-thirds of those who attend. If upward of 70 percent of Americans attend college at some point, it applies to half the rising population. Like indenture through the seventeenth century, it has become a common experience of those settling the new technological world of twenty-first-century America, in which we are continually told that we need college degrees to compete globally.

• AMOUNTS Student debt has morphed from relatively small amounts to substantial ones, loosely paralleling the large debt entailed by colonial transport. The average federal loan debt of a graduating senior in 2004 (the most recent year for which statistics are available) was $19,200. Given that tuitions have nearly doubled in the last decade and grants have barely risen, and that debt more than doubled from 1994, when it was $9,000, not to mention from 1984, when it was $2,000, one can assume that the totals will continue to climb. Also consider that, as happens with averages, many people have significantly more than the median -- 23 percent of borrowers attending private and 14 percent attending public universities have over $30,000 in undergraduate loans. Added to federal loans are charge cards, estimated at $2,169 per student in 2004, quite often used for necessities; private loans, which have quintupled in number since 1996, when 1 percent of students took them, to 5 percent in 2004, and which have risen in total to $17.3 billion in 2005, a disturbingly large portion in addition to the $68.6 billion for federal loans; and, for over 60 percent of those continuing their educations, graduate-student debt, which more than doubled in the past decade, to a 2004 median of about $28,000 for those with master’s degrees, $45,000 for doctorates, and $68,000 for professional degrees.

• LENGTH OF TERM Student debt is a long-term commitment -- fifteen years for standard Stafford guaranteed federal loans. With consolidation or refinancing, the length of term frequently extends to thirty years -- in other words, for many returning students or graduate students, until retirement age. It is not a transitory bond, say, of a year for those indentured in England or of early student debtors who might have owed $2,000. To be sure, it is not as concentrated as colonial indenture, but it is lengthier and weighs down a student debtor’s future.

• TRANSPORT TO WORK Student indebtedness is premised on the idea of transport to a job -- the figurative transport over the higher seas of education to attain the shores of credentials deemed necessary for a middle class job. The cost of transport is borne by the laborer, so an individual has to pay for the opportunity to work. Some businesses alleviate debt as a recruiting benefit, but unfortunately they are still relatively few. (Another factor is the precipitous rise in student work hours, as Marc Bousquet’s stunning indictment, How the University Works, recounts. According to recent statistics, students at public universities work an average of twenty-five hours a week, which tends to lower grades and impede graduation rates. Servitude, for many current students, begins on ship.)

• PERSONAL CONTRACTS "Indenture” designates a practice of making contracts before signatures were common (they were torn, the tear analogous to the unique shape of a person’s bite, and each party held half, so they could be verified by their match); student debt reinstitutes a system of contracts that bind a rising majority of Americans. Like indenture, the debt is secured not by property, as most loans such as those for cars or houses are, but by the person, obligating his or her future labor. Student-loan debt "financializes” the person, in the phrase of Randy Martin, who diagnoses this strategy as a central one of contemporary venture capital, displacing risk to individuals rather than employers or society. It was also a strategy of colonial indenture.

• LIMITED RECOURSE Contracts for federal student loans stipulate severe penalties and are virtually unbreakable, forgiven only in death, not bankruptcy, and enforced by severe measures, such as garnishee and other legal sanctions, with little recourse. (In one recent case, the Social Security payment to a person on disability was garnisheed.) In England, indenture was regulated by law, and servants had recourse in court; one of the pernicious aspects of colonial indenture was that there was little recourse in the new colonies.

• CLASS Student debt applies to those with less family wealth, like indenture reinforcing class differences. That this would be a practice in imperial Britain, before modern democracy and where classes were rigidly set, is not entirely surprising; it is more disturbing in the United States, where we ostensibly eschew the determining force of class. The one-third without student debt face much different futures, and are more likely to pursue graduate and professional degrees (three-quarters of those receiving doctorates in 2004 had no undergraduate debt, and, according to a 2002 Nellie Mae survey, 40 percent of those not pursuing graduate school attributed their choice to debt). Student debt is digging a class moat in present-day America.

• YOUTH Student debt incorporates primarily younger people, as indenture did. One of the more troubling aspects of student debt is that often it is the first step down a slope of debt and difficulties. Tamara Draut, in her exposé Strapped: Why America’s 20- and 30-Somethings Can’t Get Ahead, shows how it inaugurates a series of strained conditions, compounded by shrinking job prospects, escalating charge card debt, and historically higher housing payments, whether rent or mortgage, resulting in lessened chances for having a family and establishing a secure and comfortable life. The American Dream, and specifically the post-Second World War dream of equal opportunity opened by higher education, has been curtailed for many of the rising generation.

• BROKERS Student debt fuels a financial services system that trades in and profits from contracts of indebted individuals, like the Liverpool merchants, sea captains, and planters trading in contracts of indenture. The lender pays the fare to the college, and thereafter the contracts are circulated among Sallie Mae, Nellie Mae, Citigroup, and four thousand other banks. This system makes a futures market of people and garners immense profit from them. The federally guaranteed student loan program was originally a nonprofit corporation, Sallie Mae, but in 2004 Sallie Mae became a private, for-profit corporation, reporting record profits in its first three years.

• STATE POLICY The British crown gave authority to the Virginia Company; the U.S. government authorizes current lending enterprises and, even more lucratively for banks, underwrites their risk in guaranteeing the loans (the Virginia Company received no such largesse and went bankrupt). In the past few years, federal aid has funneled more to loans rather than any other form of aid (52 percent of all federal aid, whereas grants account for 42 percent).

My point in adducing this bill of particulars is not to claim an exact historical correspondence between indentured servitude and student indebtedness. But, as I think these particulars show, it is not just a fanciful analogy either. The shock of the comparison is that it has any resonance at all, and that we permit, through policy and practice, the conscription of those seeking the opportunity of education, especially the young, into a significant bond on their future labor and life. While indenture was more direct and severe, it was the product of a rigidly classed, semi-feudal world; student debt is more flexible, varied in application, and amorphous in effects, a product of the postmodern world, but it revives the spirit of indenture in promulgating class privilege and class subservience. What is most troubling is that it represents a shift in basic political principle. It turns away from the democratic impetus of modern American society. The 1947 Report of the President’s Commission on Education, which ushered in the vast expansion of our colleges and universities, emphasized (in bold italics) that "free and universal access to education must be a major goal in American education.” Otherwise, the commission warned, "If the ladder of educational opportunity rises high at the doors of some youth and scarcely rises at the doors of others, while at the same time formal education is made a prerequisite to occupational and social advance, then education may become the means, not of eliminating race and class distinctions, but of deepening them.” Their goal was not only an abstract one of equality, but also to strengthen the United States, and, by all accounts, American society prospered. Current student debt weakens America, wasting the resource of those impeded from pursuing degrees who otherwise would make excellent doctors or professors or engineers, as well as creating a culture of debt and constraint.

THE COUNTERARGUMENTS for the rightness of student-loan debt are similar to the counterarguments for the benefits of indenture. One holds that it is a question of supply and demand -- a lot of people want higher education, thus driving up the price. This doesn’t hold water, because the demand for higher education in the years following the Second World War through 1970 was proportionately the highest of any time, as student enrollments doubled and tripled, but the supply was cheap and largely state funded. The difference between then and now is that higher education was much more substantially funded through public sources, both state and federal; now the expense has been privatized, transferred to students and their families.

Galenson argues that with indenture, "long terms did not imply exploitation” because they were only fitting for the high cost of transport; that more productive servants, or those placed in undesirable areas, could lessen their terms; and that some servants went on to prosper. He does not mention the rate of death, the many cases of abuse, the draconian extension of contracts by unethical planters, nor simply what term would be an appropriate maximum for any person in a free society to be bound, even if they agreed to the bondage. Galenson also ignores the underlying political question: Is it appropriate that people, especially those entering the adult world, might take on such a long-term commitment of constraint? Can people make a rational choice for a term they might not realistically imagine? Even if one doesn’t question the principle of indenture, what is an appropriate cap for its amounts and term? In the case of student debt, although it might be a legal choice, it is doubtful whether it is always a rational choice for those who have no knowledge of adult life. One of the more haunting responses to the 2002 Nellie Mae survey was that 54 percent said that they would have borrowed less if they had to do it again, up from 31 percent ten years before. One can only imagine that this informed judgment will climb as debt continues to rise.

Student-loan debt is justified in terms similar to Galenson’s by some current economists. Because college graduates have made, according to some statistics, $1,000,000 more over the course of their careers than non-college graduates, one prominent argument holds that it is rational and right that they accumulate substantial debt to start their careers. However, while it is true that many graduates make statistically high salaries, the problem is that those results vary a great deal: some accrue debt but don’t graduate; some graduate but, with degrees in the humanities or education, for instance, they are unlikely to make a high salary; more and more students have difficulty finding a professional or high-paying job; and the rates have been declining, so a college degree is no longer the guaranteed ticket to wealth that it once was. An economic balance sheet also ignores the fundamental question of the ethics of requiring debt of those who desire higher education and the fairness of its distribution to those less privileged.

IN THE past year, there has been more attention to the problem of student-loan debt, but most of the solutions, such as the recent interest rate adjustment for current graduates (so the rates didn’t rise when the prime rate increased) or laws forbidding graft to college loan officers, are stopgaps that do not affect the structure and basic terms of the system. The system needs wholesale change. I believe that the best solution is "FreeHigherEd,” put forth by the Labor Party (see Adolph Reed’s article, "A G.I. Bill for Everybody,” in Dissent, Fall 2001). It proposes that the federal government pay tuition for all qualified students at public universities, which would cost around fifty billion dollars a year and which could be paid simply by repealing a portion of the Bush tax cuts or shifting a small portion of the military budget. It would actually jettison a substantial layer of current bureaucracy -- of the branches of the federal loan program, of the vast web of banking, and of college financial aid offices -- thereby saving a great deal. Like free, universal health care, free higher education should be the goal, and it’s not impracticable.

The next best solution, I believe, is "Income Contingent Loans.” Income Contingent Loans, as their name implies, stipulate an adjustable rate of payment according to income. They were first adopted in Australia in 1989, the invention of the educational policy expert Bruce Chapman, and have since been adopted in the United Kingdom. They are currently supported by The Project on Student Debt. Such loans represent a pragmatic compromise between free tuition and the current debtor system. They provide a safety net for those with the most debt but least resources and they stipulate a reasonable scale of payment for those doing better.

One of the most pernicious aspects of the current structure of student-loan debt is that it puts a particular burden on those who have lower incomes, especially at the beginning of their careers, because the repayment schedule is fixed (there are very limited terms of forbearance, capping at four years). For instance, an elementary school teacher with a salary of $23,900 (the 2005 median) who has a debt of $40,000 after her four years at a private college would have to pay about 15 percent or more of her salary, before taxes. After taxes it might be closer to 25 percent, which would make ordinary living expenses difficult. Income Contingent Loans stipulate a minimum threshold below which one does not have to pay -- $23,242 in Australia in 2002. Income Contingent Loans protect those most at risk.

They also have other safeguards and measures of fairness. Beyond the minimum threshold, they stipulate a sliding scale, in Australia beginning at 3 percent and rising to a cap of 8 percent, so that if the teacher got a raise to $30,000 she might have to pay 4 percent. In the United Kingdom, the cap is 6 percent. Rates adjust over the long term, so that if a graduate starts with a low salary but eventually makes a sizable income, then it seems fitting that he pay a higher rate. If you graduate from Carnegie Mellon, where I teach, and get a job in engineering for $80,000 a year, it does not seem an inordinate burden to pay $4,800 a year. But it does seem unreasonable to have to pay $400 a month when you make $18,000 a year.

THE REAL shift is that Income Contingent Loans obligate someone’s actual salary. They absorb some of the risk, in a sense, of those who do not attain high salaries, but they also have a certain fairness: they are a kind of tax levied on the actual economic value of a degree, rather than the imagined value. One counterargument is that this is unfair -- as with income taxes, those who make more pay at a higher rate. But I would argue that the current system is unfair and unbalanced, insofar as some people derive more benefit from a college degree. For instance, at Carnegie Mellon, the value of a computer science degree is far higher than one in English, so those in computer science should have to pay proportionately more. The Australian system adjusts for degrees in fields such as the humanities.

One practical problem of Income Contingent Loans is collection. In the United Kingdom, collection is administered through income tax. Although this would require a new line or work sheet on our yearly tax report, it would rid us of payment books and complicated refinancing plans and greatly reduce the many layers of financial aid offices, the federal loan system, and the brokers of banking, saving substantially more paperwork as well as money than the system we now have. Banks will lobby that this is inefficient, but the tax system works: it’s already in place; and the current system, with its multiple brokers, is hardly more efficient. The specter of socialism would probably be invoked, but the present system is already socialized, insofar as the federal government guarantees the loans -- with banks rather than students gaining a good deal of the benefit. Income Contingent Loans would shift the benefit more fully to students.

The College Student Relief Act of 2007 institutes an "Income-Based Repayment Option” on the model of Income Contingent Loans. This is a feint in the right direction, but a muddled one. It mandates qualifying for economic hardship through a labyrinthine process and relies on an overly complicated formula, of the amount of your adjusted gross income exceeding 100 percent of the poverty line, then capping payments at 20 percent of that, which often results in a still substantial payment. (Based on the 2006 poverty line of $10,488 for a single person, our elementary school teacher would have to pay 20 percent of $13,412, or $220.17 a month; in the other systems, she would have to pay little or nothing until she made more.) Such adjustments could lead more qualified students to go into teaching. The advantage of the Australian and British models is that they apply to everyone -- you do not have to file yet another set of forms to find out if you qualify, nor can you be rejected -- and payments are based on a fixed and clear scale. The Relief Act shows admirable concern for the problem, for instance cutting interest rates from 6.12 percent in 2007 to 3.4 percent in 2011 (much to the displeasure of the banking lobby), but, as with the health care system, adds another codicil to an already far-flung and confusing web of regulations. The Australian and British systems work and are standardized and simple, with one plan for all.

Although it seems as if it crept up on us, student-loan indebtedness is not an accident but a policy. It is a bad policy, corrupting the goals of higher education. The world we inhabit is a good one if you are in the fortunate third without debt, but not nearly so good if you live under its weight. Student debt produces inequality and overtaxes our talent for short-term, private gain. As a policy, we can and should change it.

 

This article originally appeared in Dissent. Jeffrey J. Williams is one of the editors of The Norton Anthology of Theory and Criticism, the second edition of which is in preparation. A full professor, he will finally pay off his graduate student loans next year.
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That has always been the way especially for the last 3 decades.
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield on Feb 5, 2009 12:42 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nothing new here. The elites will use all sorts of groups as indentured servants or even near-slaves. As for me, I studied online so it wasn't quite as expensive.

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» Thank you Carla for understanding. Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield

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What about tuition?
Posted by: brunowe on Feb 5, 2009 12:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article mentions that tuition has doubled over the past decade. According to BLS stats, CPI has only gone up by about a third in the ten-year period 1998-2008. What are the causes of such an increase in tuition.

One other thing the article didn't mention is the possibility of having the federal government make the loans directly instead of through private brokers. The federal guarantee and the extreme difficulty in getting rid of student debt in the event of hardship is pretty much a case of private profit/socialized risk.

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Initially I thought this compariso sounded like a vain ploy, but as I read
Posted by: and_abottleofrum on Feb 5, 2009 1:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the author's points, I realized there are significant comparisons, and the following excerpt confirmed for me that the author's intention in drawing this analogy is sincere.

My point in adducing this bill of particulars is not to claim an exact historical correspondence between indentured servitude and student indebtedness. But, as I think these particulars show, it is not just a fanciful analogy either. The shock of the comparison is that it has any resonance at all, and that we permit, through policy and practice, the conscription of those seeking the opportunity of education, especially the young, into a significant bond on their future labor and life. While indenture was more direct and severe, it was the product of a rigidly classed, semi-feudal world; student debt is more flexible, varied in application, and amorphous in effects, a product of the postmodern world, but it revives the spirit of indenture in promulgating class privilege and class subservience.

The class divide that is growing in higher education means that the engine for equipping people who have the talent and drive to specialize in a particular skill set with the education and credentials to work within a given field is becoming less efficient. If three quarters of those with advanced degrees are drawn from the minority whose families can afford post-baccalaureate education, then the choice of candidates from which to draw talent into specialized fields is diminished. Thus our education system is highly inefficient in terms of training the students who possess the greatest potential because the applicant pool is artificially reduced by income barriers. Most talent in the U.S. is never converted into the level of work of which it is capable.

This is to be expected, because an engine is rarely even more than fifty percent efficient in its conversion of raw materials into useful work, and social engines are more complex and inefficient than any other type. However it is lamentable that basic maintenance, or an engine overhaul, is not undertaken in recognition of declining systemic health. Eventually this engine will break down, meaning that specialized careers will be staffed by people who are intellectually under-equipped for the task, as fewer and fewer applicants will have been available to draw from when selecting whom to educate for the skill sets demanded by these careers. Come to think of it, it's breaking down already.

Part of any attempted overhaul - not that I hold out much hope that any serious reform of higher education will occur in the foreseeable future other than recurrent budget cuts as the U.S. slides further into bankruptcy - should include a re-thinking of what courses of study are emphasized. Ecology needs to be part of colleges' core curricula, and business programs like marketing should be downsized.

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Also, the fact that some people can get through college without having to worry
Posted by: and_abottleofrum on Feb 5, 2009 1:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
much about economic factors because their families can afford to pay encourages a callous understanding of social class among these graduates, one that I suspect is not sufficiently remedied by the few courses in sociology or ethics that these students might encounter while in college.

All college students, from whom future leaders of our society will likely be drawn (most college grads will never wield much authority, but people who do wield significant authority in politics and business are almost invariably college graduates), should have to look social inequality in the face as part of the privilege of attending college.

All college students, whether their parents can pay their way or not, should have to do community or international service for a few years before they are permitted to enter an institution of higher learning. If the service is domestic, it should have to be completed in an urban ghetto or impoverished rural area. If it is international, it should have to be fulfilled in a third world country. The nature of this service should be to work helping alleviate the difficulties of the downtrodden, thus future leaders would have spent years interacting with abused, exploited, sometimes starving, sometimes dying, and often hopeless human beings.

It would help them develop a conscience that appears to be lacking among the leadership of today.

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» community service Posted by: socialpsych

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Work hard, increase production, prevent accidents and be happy...
Posted by: Revolutionary (Direct) Democracy on Feb 5, 2009 2:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We're ALL indentured servants.


FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

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No statute of limitations...
Posted by: ender on Feb 5, 2009 3:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...on murder, rape or student loans. You can see the value to society made by prioritizing murder, rape and student loan repayment into the same never-get-out-of-jail category, can't you?

Funny how all the bailout money went to the banks, but none to students.

I don't understand how a private institution is allowed to make money on loans guaranteed against default by the government (and therefore without risk.)

China has accused the United States of human rights violations for charging money for higher education. Apparently, the Chinese view education as a basic human right. Now when the Chinese start accusing you of human rights violations, something is indeed whacky.

The author did not mention how government's support of higher education dropped after the Vietnam War. After all, why would the military industrial complex want an educated middle class that could intelligently question policy?

Remember what Karl Rove said to a roomful of contributors? "As people do better, they start voting like Republicans - unless they have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be too much of a good thing."

Translation: "Yes, if you rich but ignorant pigs only had more education, you wouldn't support us. Now cut the check before the gay Mexicans on welfare marry and take away your Jesus guns." And they DID.

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» Wow. Posted by: Scientz

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$52,000 in Student Loan Debt and No Job
Posted by: colleenwhalen on Feb 5, 2009 3:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why did I waste my time earning 2 degrees? The field I trained for isn't hiring. I owe $52,000 in student loan debt at 5% interest. My monthly payment is $300.00 a month. I am unemployed - so for the time being, I have an "economic hardship" deferrment. Monday, I have a job interview for a temporary job as a Census worker - other than that, zero prospects. The city I live in has 10% unemployment rate. Every day, when I do errands in my neighborhood - another store has closed because of the horrible economy.

Instead of giving $700 billion in corporate welfare bailout to Wall Street crooks - the government could have given each of us 300 million Americans $1 million dollars. We could have paid off all our debts, paid off sub=prime home mortgages and avoided all those foreclosures/evictions!

Today I called my credit card company to see if I could get a lower interest rate - and if they would let me consolidate my $8,000 in credit card debt, I owe on 3 different cards. My request was denied because of my $52K in student loan debt!

Geez! I went to college to get out of the dead end rut of being a clerical worker. Now I've been re-trained for a career which had my job outsourced to India/China.

Last year I was working as a Literacy Worker tutoring at a local college. That job helped me stay afloat PLUS I was able to pay off some of my credit card debt. Due to budget cuts, that job was eliminated last May.

With a heavy heart, I applied for Food Stamps last May - was deemed eligible but I am STILL tussling with the Food Stamp office to actually give me the Food Stamps. At this point, I decided to forget about that, since my monthly benefit is a whopping $14.00 in Food Stamps. Today I wasted one hour at the Food Stamp office trying to get my file straightened out.

I suppose our govt, would rather give $700 billion to Wall Street crooks in the bailout, that to help struggling people find jobs or buy groceries?

I really regret going to college. I thought my degrees would help lift me out of "working poor" - now I'm just poor but not working!

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» Actually.... Posted by: Evelyn
» Actually, Posted by: annavan1
» Just a quick question Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Just a quick response Posted by: Evelyn
» RE: Just a quick response Posted by: rickiey

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quality
Posted by: edgar1 on Feb 5, 2009 3:52 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
we have too many 'colleges', both public and private. Most high schoool grads can't do the complex thinkin a good college requires. yet politicians established thousands of new colleges to dilute the strengh of the central state university. pleasing constitutents was the motive, not qualtiy of education. thus the system has vast unnecessary costs. what most people need to know to do their jobs does not require a college education, ie a quality college education. establish lower cost technical and business institutes that rely on internet, email and small group meetings in community buildings. some foreclosed homes could be purchased, for example. get rid of "dorms", student life centers and black studies houses, hillel houses and other nongerrmane social feel good capital investments.

there should be one state university in each state of the highest quality-Ivy League quality. Tuition should be free, standards vigorous, A's hard to come by. the survivors would be key leaders in society and business.

religious schools should receive no state aid and no federal loan guarantees. bye bye notre dame, rah rah.

the population reads on a middle school level. we don't need colleges as much as high schools that keep to basics, siphon off troublemakers to work camps, and emphasize loyalty to community and country. Illegal immigrants need not apply.

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servitude is right
Posted by: socialpsych on Feb 5, 2009 4:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I once participated in a commencement ceremony at a Penn State University campus where the guest speaker was none other than Albert Lord, CEO of Sallie Mae, the largest private student loan lender. Mr. Lord had recently given several million dollars to Penn State in a thinly-veiled attempt to buy support for Sallie Mae's bid to get exclusive student lending rights in Pennsylvania. (That didn't work out for Sallie Mae.)

Lord is a nasty, arrogant little man. During his speech to mostly middle- and lower-income students and their families, he talked about how being rich enabled him to do whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted--exactly what new graduates starting their adult lives with $20,000 in student loan debt needed to hear.

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No Consumer Protections WHATSOEVER
Posted by: terradea42 on Feb 5, 2009 4:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My student loan payments per month are nearly $2,000. I can only pay $200 per month. I make under $30,000 per year. I am almost 50 years old. I am lucky to have the job that I have.

I borrowed $25,000 for undergrad and $115,000 for law school (total $140,000). I now owe $185,000 because of fees, interest and penalties. The loan companies refuse to lower my payments because, when I default, they get to add 25% to my loans as a penalty (pure profit for them), increasing what I will owe to $213,000. I pay over 10% interest on some of my student loans.

How did this happen? My partner, who promised to help me pay when I borrowed the money, left. I didn't pass the bar exam so I can't work as a lawyer. I couldn't even find a job doing anything for almost 2 years. Now, even if I could afford to take classes to help me pass the bar exam, and if I could afford to take time off work to take the classes, and then if I could afford to sign up and take the bar exam, I couldn't because, with my debt problems, I would never pass character and fitness (required to take the bar exam). I am totally screwed.

Congress voted on and approved the scenario above. I wonder who paid them to do so.

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Plus Ca Change
Posted by: Lilly on Feb 5, 2009 5:05 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hello, has anybody here ever gone to school? I worked as a TA, teaching 6 hours for $2000 a year plus my tuition. My husband ran two labs AND taught for $3600 a year and since subject animals had to be dosed and bled 24/7 he was in the lab all the hours God sent, while writing his dissertation on the side. Friends who were physicians in training sometimes didn't get home for a week at a time. All of this was indeed a form of indenture. Has something new happened?

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» Touche' Posted by: badkitty68
» this is blatantly false Posted by: inverse_agonist

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Ability to Repay
Posted by: AndyF on Feb 5, 2009 5:37 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The ability to repay student loans should really be a consideration by the lender before the loan is granted. With the current system, all degrees are considered equal and all students are equal. If people were forced to consider up front whether their intended degree typically provides a career path remunerative enough to pay for the loans they intend to take out they would make smarter choices and better match their debt with their income potential. It would also be helpful if the loans weren't piecemealed, but were considered almost as a line of credit - when you sign up for a degree program at a specific school you have in black and white that based on your current income and family resources, you are looking at $20,000 in loans rather than each semester signing off on another $2,500.

In parallel with considering the ability to repay, there should be real efforts made to rein in the costs of college to make it more affordable and to increase merit assistance so that capable students are not denied an opportunity for an education because of low income.

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» RE: Ability to Repay Posted by: madmax427
» RE: Ability to Repay Posted by: phatkhat

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And getting worse
Posted by: kiel on Feb 5, 2009 6:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now some universities (including mine) are trying to save money on the backs of the least-paid workers: Grad student TAs. The administration is considering discontinuing tuition waivers for 25% time TAs (tuition waivers would require a minimum of 33% time appointments). Absolutely appalling.

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» that is appalling Posted by: socialpsych
» Bingo! Posted by: annavan1
» RE: And getting worse Posted by: Socioecologist

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why should anyone repay debt...
Posted by: ismac76 on Feb 5, 2009 6:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
only to go through hardship when it only seems to apply to those who needed the money for basic necessities? It's a shell game where those with too much will give you a little in order to manipulate those who need for those with greed. We build then finance their extravagant, often counter productive, acquisitions.
The so called "system" is fundamentally out of whack, debt is a parasitic disease caused by the inequal distribution of wealth(deficiency based) and everybody should realize that credit scores are just a number for the people with money.
Legal actions need to be enforced and the bad actors will stand out when people draw a line in the sand, which might prevent that system from even functioning beyond issuing liens and whatnot. Are they the latest incarnation of the paper tigers?
Here's an idea, how about a "general strike" of nonpayment on all debts, indefinitely.
Uniquely tailored to our american desire to be anonymous and do nothing, it just might payoff.(or will it?)
But first a surge in spending on prerequisite goods that enable people to do it yourself, grow it yourself, make it yourself, develop micro-scale means of production making what you need and what you are good at relevant to scale.

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Depends. Wife and I both recently acquired our terminal degrees...
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Feb 5, 2009 7:27 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...and are very optimistic about the future.

In my first year out of grad school, I'll make about twice what we need to pay all the bills for our family, college loans included. Her income has been used to fund retirement, home savings (no, we didn't get greedy when the lenders were telling us about "historic deals"), vacations, emergency funds, and normal savings.

I avoided some of the student loan debt by going into the military. $36,000 in cash (it's much more nowadays) from the Montgomery G.I. Bill while in school goes a long way for three years, and I also joined the Army National Guard, who provided me with a tuition waiver.

There are all sorts of options out there for reducing/forgiving student debt for those that care to explore them. Teaching in poor sections of town, debt repayment through military service are choices available.

So is doing it the old fashioned way--the way my little brothers did it and are doing it--living at home and working in the evening if military service and helping to educate poor kids isn't your bag, baby. Bundle that with state programs such as LA's TOPS (which effectively waives tuition at state-funded institutions, and in the interest of being non-discriminatory provides an equal voucher for use at private institutions) and students have many, many, many avenues available to help meet their needs.

The bottom line is that student loans are a tool and an option available to you. Yes, they have in my opinion, helped inflate the cost of tuition, as has the Pell Grant and private loans, and also tuition incentives. Are they the ball-and-chain that the author makes them out to be? Only if you don't exercise your choices to make the cost lower, or choose to take out loans for an education that wasn't worth the price of admission.

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» I offered options. You called names. Posted by: ABetterFuture
» education is a scam Posted by: ismac76
» RE: education is a scam? Creationism? Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Yeah, my dad was a Viet Nam vet... Posted by: ABetterFuture

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All public higher education
Posted by: badkitty68 on Feb 5, 2009 7:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
should be free, and available to anyone who has the ability and desire to do the work. Period. There is no greater investment in a country's future than education, as most other developed nations figured out long ago. Once again, this country stands alone in the total sell-out of its citizenry to profit and corporate interests.
Just as this is the only developed nation where citizens are regularly denied medical care, and can have their life's opportunities destroyed by medical debt, we are the only ones where higher education debts can keep one in a state of economic servitude and limited opportunities for years, if not forever.
Providing all public education as if it was a basic right could be easily funded by simply eliminating corporate tax breaks, loopholes, and offshore tax havens. And by government insistence that all the politically active religious organizations nationwide start paying their rightful taxes.
All those who squawk about how expensive (or socialistic) such an inclusive educational policy would be are strangely silent when it comes to the government throwing a trillion+ dollars (that we don't even have) at multinational corporations, which have already fed at the public trough for years - and who will get the public money with virtually no strings attached or repayment plan, unlike the punitive, sometimes impossible penalties attached to student loan repayment.
For a myriad of reasons, American citizens should be protesting in the the streets en masse. Why the vast majority of Americans continue to accept all this crap is baffling to me. If someone out there can explain that to me, I'd appreciate it. Are we too comfy, too ignorant, or too stupefied by a trivia and entertainment-saturated culture, or is it all of the above? We're clearly not made of the same stuff as our revolutionary ancestors, that's for sure.

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No, men (and women) who pay alimoney are the new indentured servants
Posted by: rickiey on Feb 5, 2009 7:50 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Before you all flame me to a crisp, notice I said alimoney, not child support. There's a huge difference.

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» At least spell it right Posted by: Kelly
» RE: At least spell it right Posted by: rickiey

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Lies
Posted by: esornew on Feb 5, 2009 8:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Student loans made to unaware applicants were fraud! Unaware applicant advised to take unmarketable degree, told repayment would be as low as $10 month, high salary job assured. Result? Indebtness for life.

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Education was an expensive hell even back in the 1990s.
Posted by: CarlaWaters on Feb 5, 2009 9:30 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would say that it simply continues to get worse. To add to Jennifer Bedingfield's point on online education, my husband was able to get his education for less and better quality through an online degree. It is expensive too but luckily his company was kind enough to reimburse him for his masters degree since it related to the job. A couple of his friends who are a few years younger also say that their parents are finding online education cheaper than in class. I cannot say that online education is perfect either and I can imagine the trade-offs. However, I don't think we're all completely indentured. What we need to do is take our level of education and make it clear to the hiring folks that our efforts to sufficiently educate ourselves will not be belittled.

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student loans?
Posted by: ! on Feb 5, 2009 9:53 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
they were foolish enough to loan me money to go to school i have no intention of paying back? its my wall street bonus folks!

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» RE: student loans? Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: student loans? Posted by: !

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Expatriate?
Posted by: Kelly on Feb 5, 2009 10:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am curious how much of a reverse brain drain is occurring in the US because of student loan debt. I know that something like this is happening in New Zealand. PhDs generally graduate with enormous debt loads and often work for a pittance as adjuncts. Running off to England or wherever seems like an attractive choice when it means you can also have a house and a family.

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What will be the point of a college education
Posted by: willymack on Feb 5, 2009 1:31 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If there aren't any jobs to fill due to economic collapse, anyway? High school graduates might just as well march over to the burger joints, because that'll probably be the only jobs left to do.

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The Student Loan Is Soylent Green
Posted by: Sailmariner on Feb 5, 2009 1:31 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wrote this originally in late summer 2007:

The attention now being paid to corrupt practices in the student loan system is a good thing, but there is a fundamental issue that is bigger by far.

What people have not decried is that the giant dual systems of universities and lending institutions operate in tandem to make sure that practically every student comes away from college in debt. Even when they do not actively conspire to do this, they work tacitly together to make it happen.

Like everyone else, I at first could not see the forest for the trees. Our first son went to college with a very encouraging “assistance” package that was almost half the total freshman year costs. He made Dean’s List.

For the sophomore year, they CUT the assistance by about 40 percent. He made Dean’s List that year. For the junior year, they CUT the assistance by about 50 percent of the remaining. He made Dean’s List and, for the senior year (you guessed it), they CUT the assistance to essentially nothing. He made Dean’s List in seven of eight semesters and graduated cum laude. Yet the assistance just dropped and dropped.

Of course, while they were doing this cutting, they were only too happy to help shoehorn him into student loans. In fact, as many students already know, the colleges tend to make you think all “assistance” packages have some component of loans.

This was not the way it was when I went to college in the 1960s. In those days, there was a linkage between your grades and your continued receipt of scholarship money, and colleges were not entangled in the student loan business.

So we found ourselves well immersed into our first son’s college career before we could conclude that there definitely was NO LINKAGE between his good grades and the “assistance” package.

In other words, the colleges give you a big incentive to get you to come to the school, then they keep reducing the money once they have you “hooked.” By your senior year, you will probably take out any amount of loans it takes to finish your degree.

Our second son went to community college and a state school, so we cannot say the experience was identical, but the basic system of cutting assistance even while he made 3.6 or better, was still in place. At least we had learned not to be surprised.

There isn’t some law that says assistance packages have to decrease; assistance policies are a fabrication of the universities (happily abetted by the loan industry).

A lot of people do not remember how it was before the Truth In Lending law, but basically, lenders did whatever they could to disguise the real costs. All the law did was to force them to tell you the actual percentage rate and the total of all payments. This doesn’t seem like much today, but it was a huge leap.

What we need is a kind of Truth in Student Assistance Law that would force universities to disclose their policies. Under such a law, they would be required to give you simple statements like, “your grades will not affect how much money we give you” and “by the time you’re out of here, we have worked it out so that you’ll owe about $50,000 to $100,000 to some lending company.” Such a law would also require them to disclose exactly their relationship to lending companies, in detail.

Further, the one weapon that students and parents have is information, but they need to aggregate their power in this. In other words, students and parents should not keep quiet about assistance plans, they should in fact share it widely. If students and parents understood what was really going on, they might just demand a better system. At least they would not settle for a system where the college fattens them up for the initial year so they can be fed into the lending industry's grinder.

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To everyone who has
Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Feb 5, 2009 4:41 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the attitude of, "Well, why didn't you get a degree in a field where you could get a job?" I have this experience to share.

About ten years ago, I went back to school. I researched and found out that occupational therapists were in hot demand. VERY HOT. So even though I did not much care for the thought of being an occupational therapist, I signed up for OT school.

One year into a two year program EVERYTHING CHANGED. Insurance companies started saying occupational therapy was too much of a repeat of physical therapy so they were no longer going to pay for as much OT. Demand for OTs plunged.

The teacher, who had once promised me that dozens of 50 grand a year jobs would be BEGGING me to work for them when I graduated now said most of us would never get jobs and if we did, we'd be lucky to get 25,000 a year working at the state run institution for the profoundly mentally retarded. You know, the place where the patients have to be helped to not eat their own poop.

I walked out and never regretted it.

So you can not always predict what jobs will be available. They used to say getting a computer science degree would guarantee you a job but then they outsourced them all.

SO IF YOU THINK THE PEOPLE COMPLAINING WERE JUST "STUPID" AND GOT "WORTHLESS" DEGREES, I SAY, GET OVER YOUR ATTITUDE. YOU ARE FULL OF CRAP AND THEN SOME.

Granny's crazy videos = Go get a chuckle!

Luv,
Granny

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Most colleges are based solely on the premise...
Posted by: Naty on Feb 5, 2009 8:02 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...that since they are "licensed" to hand out diplomas that means they are permitted to call themselves places of learning. Most college students are vapid, flighty, and quite frankly irritating. So many of the lower level courses area sorry excuses for a classroom. The professors know that their students are bright but covered in dust, and knowing this refuse to over-exert themselves. That's why I'm a philosophy major, at least professors in this department believe easily in the importance of intellectual exploration.
The saddest thing are these "discussion" sections that are classrooms to supplement lecture. One is expected to participate but most never do with any regularity, and finally wen they do it is done so dutifully.
There are few people around with whom I can really talk to. And when one does find these kinds of people, especially the women, they "flake out". I"m a woman myself and have noticed this lack of consideration for the other party, I used to think this kind of behavior was solely endemic to that other sex... maybe it's just a sign of the times. There is a general sense of angst and slovenliness. A sense that one is interacting with a faceless society.

I believe we are currently on the knife edge of a political revolution... and I fear that it is not going to be so swell for most of us. Hang on tight, and no matter what don't ever lose your morals.

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Bad things happen to good people
Posted by: HSencillo on Feb 6, 2009 2:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Student loan debt policy in the US is the most crippling civil institution on record.

No, people fettered to unmanageable student loan debt are not "indentured servants," they are serfs, bound to the land.

There is no rational much less civic or moral authority to undischargeable overwhelming debt.

Well over 95% of US student borrowers either [a] repay their debt diligently as able, or [b] suffer some catastrophic economic disaster that renders them unable to service that debt. There is NO evidence that student borrowers are scammers, nor naive or foolish when undertaking that debt.

Student loans are borrowed in good faith. These people are investing in their future, and know full well the implications of mortgaging themselves. Yet, borrow they must, as the cost of a university education has in the last two decades reached unconscionable and horrific proportions.

McMansion, some would say? Hell, no. Without a college education, the chances of prosperity and contributing to the GDP as consumers commanding decent wages and salaries are virtually nil. It is a known fact, a force of nature, that the "economy" such as exists today affords little in the way of decent jobs if all you have is high school. Technical schools are well-known for being as much rip-offs with no ROI as not. The ONLY way our economy functions and gets the axles greased is thru consumer spending. Jobs that pay little, for whatEVER reason, smother the national economy.

Currently, the ONLY ways for student loan adjustment that exists are two: literally death, or 100% disability. There is NO way loans can be renegotiated. Within 6 months of graduation, you WILL be in default if you have no job or cannot afford the payments (regardless of amounts; amounts are red herrings.)

Once in default on a student loan in the US, your life is ruined. And there is no way out.

Indentured servants had a way. Serfs, on the other hand, had no way out: they were bound to the land, bought and sold as chattel.

That is what it is to be in the world of student loans.

Defaults are not about fecklessness nor over-indulgence. Bad things happen to good people.

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Brunner test
Posted by: johnnydajogger on Feb 8, 2009 2:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dont despair so quickly. There may be a way to discharge student loans in bankruptcy under the "Brunner Test". Google for that term and check with a local bankruptcy attorney to see if you are eligible. Its a long shot but may be worth looking into.

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That has always been the way especially for the last 3 decades.
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield on Feb 5, 2009 12:42 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nothing new here. The elites will use all sorts of groups as indentured servants or even near-slaves. As for me, I studied online so it wasn't quite as expensive.

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» Thank you Carla for understanding. Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield

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What about tuition?
Posted by: brunowe on Feb 5, 2009 12:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article mentions that tuition has doubled over the past decade. According to BLS stats, CPI has only gone up by about a third in the ten-year period 1998-2008. What are the causes of such an increase in tuition.

One other thing the article didn't mention is the possibility of having the federal government make the loans directly instead of through private brokers. The federal guarantee and the extreme difficulty in getting rid of student debt in the event of hardship is pretty much a case of private profit/socialized risk.

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Initially I thought this compariso sounded like a vain ploy, but as I read
Posted by: and_abottleofrum on Feb 5, 2009 1:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the author's points, I realized there are significant comparisons, and the following excerpt confirmed for me that the author's intention in drawing this analogy is sincere.

My point in adducing this bill of particulars is not to claim an exact historical correspondence between indentured servitude and student indebtedness. But, as I think these particulars show, it is not just a fanciful analogy either. The shock of the comparison is that it has any resonance at all, and that we permit, through policy and practice, the conscription of those seeking the opportunity of education, especially the young, into a significant bond on their future labor and life. While indenture was more direct and severe, it was the product of a rigidly classed, semi-feudal world; student debt is more flexible, varied in application, and amorphous in effects, a product of the postmodern world, but it revives the spirit of indenture in promulgating class privilege and class subservience.

The class divide that is growing in higher education means that the engine for equipping people who have the talent and drive to specialize in a particular skill set with the education and credentials to work within a given field is becoming less efficient. If three quarters of those with advanced degrees are drawn from the minority whose families can afford post-baccalaureate education, then the choice of candidates from which to draw talent into specialized fields is diminished. Thus our education system is highly inefficient in terms of training the students who possess the greatest potential because the applicant pool is artificially reduced by income barriers. Most talent in the U.S. is never converted into the level of work of which it is capable.

This is to be expected, because an engine is rarely even more than fifty percent efficient in its conversion of raw materials into useful work, and social engines are more complex and inefficient than any other type. However it is lamentable that basic maintenance, or an engine overhaul, is not undertaken in recognition of declining systemic health. Eventually this engine will break down, meaning that specialized careers will be staffed by people who are intellectually under-equipped for the task, as fewer and fewer applicants will have been available to draw from when selecting whom to educate for the skill sets demanded by these careers. Come to think of it, it's breaking down already.

Part of any attempted overhaul - not that I hold out much hope that any serious reform of higher education will occur in the foreseeable future other than recurrent budget cuts as the U.S. slides further into bankruptcy - should include a re-thinking of what courses of study are emphasized. Ecology needs to be part of colleges' core curricula, and business programs like marketing should be downsized.

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Also, the fact that some people can get through college without having to worry
Posted by: and_abottleofrum on Feb 5, 2009 1:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
much about economic factors because their families can afford to pay encourages a callous understanding of social class among these graduates, one that I suspect is not sufficiently remedied by the few courses in sociology or ethics that these students might encounter while in college.

All college students, from whom future leaders of our society will likely be drawn (most college grads will never wield much authority, but people who do wield significant authority in politics and business are almost invariably college graduates), should have to look social inequality in the face as part of the privilege of attending college.

All college students, whether their parents can pay their way or not, should have to do community or international service for a few years before they are permitted to enter an institution of higher learning. If the service is domestic, it should have to be completed in an urban ghetto or impoverished rural area. If it is international, it should have to be fulfilled in a third world country. The nature of this service should be to work helping alleviate the difficulties of the downtrodden, thus future leaders would have spent years interacting with abused, exploited, sometimes starving, sometimes dying, and often hopeless human beings.

It would help them develop a conscience that appears to be lacking among the leadership of today.

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» community service Posted by: socialpsych

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Work hard, increase production, prevent accidents and be happy...
Posted by: Revolutionary (Direct) Democracy on Feb 5, 2009 2:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We're ALL indentured servants.


FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

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No statute of limitations...
Posted by: ender on Feb 5, 2009 3:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...on murder, rape or student loans. You can see the value to society made by prioritizing murder, rape and student loan repayment into the same never-get-out-of-jail category, can't you?

Funny how all the bailout money went to the banks, but none to students.

I don't understand how a private institution is allowed to make money on loans guaranteed against default by the government (and therefore without risk.)

China has accused the United States of human rights violations for charging money for higher education. Apparently, the Chinese view education as a basic human right. Now when the Chinese start accusing you of human rights violations, something is indeed whacky.

The author did not mention how government's support of higher education dropped after the Vietnam War. After all, why would the military industrial complex want an educated middle class that could intelligently question policy?

Remember what Karl Rove said to a roomful of contributors? "As people do better, they start voting like Republicans - unless they have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be too much of a good thing."

Translation: "Yes, if you rich but ignorant pigs only had more education, you wouldn't support us. Now cut the check before the gay Mexicans on welfare marry and take away your Jesus guns." And they DID.

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» Wow. Posted by: Scientz

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$52,000 in Student Loan Debt and No Job
Posted by: colleenwhalen on Feb 5, 2009 3:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why did I waste my time earning 2 degrees? The field I trained for isn't hiring. I owe $52,000 in student loan debt at 5% interest. My monthly payment is $300.00 a month. I am unemployed - so for the time being, I have an "economic hardship" deferrment. Monday, I have a job interview for a temporary job as a Census worker - other than that, zero prospects. The city I live in has 10% unemployment rate. Every day, when I do errands in my neighborhood - another store has closed because of the horrible economy.

Instead of giving $700 billion in corporate welfare bailout to Wall Street crooks - the government could have given each of us 300 million Americans $1 million dollars. We could have paid off all our debts, paid off sub=prime home mortgages and avoided all those foreclosures/evictions!

Today I called my credit card company to see if I could get a lower interest rate - and if they would let me consolidate my $8,000 in credit card debt, I owe on 3 different cards. My request was denied because of my $52K in student loan debt!

Geez! I went to college to get out of the dead end rut of being a clerical worker. Now I've been re-trained for a career which had my job outsourced to India/China.

Last year I was working as a Literacy Worker tutoring at a local college. That job helped me stay afloat PLUS I was able to pay off some of my credit card debt. Due to budget cuts, that job was eliminated last May.

With a heavy heart, I applied for Food Stamps last May - was deemed eligible but I am STILL tussling with the Food Stamp office to actually give me the Food Stamps. At this point, I decided to forget about that, since my monthly benefit is a whopping $14.00 in Food Stamps. Today I wasted one hour at the Food Stamp office trying to get my file straightened out.

I suppose our govt, would rather give $700 billion to Wall Street crooks in the bailout, that to help struggling people find jobs or buy groceries?

I really regret going to college. I thought my degrees would help lift me out of "working poor" - now I'm just poor but not working!

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» Actually.... Posted by: Evelyn
» Actually, Posted by: annavan1
» Just a quick question Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Just a quick response Posted by: Evelyn
» RE: Just a quick response Posted by: rickiey

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quality
Posted by: edgar1 on Feb 5, 2009 3:52 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
we have too many 'colleges', both public and private. Most high schoool grads can't do the complex thinkin a good college requires. yet politicians established thousands of new colleges to dilute the strengh of the central state university. pleasing constitutents was the motive, not qualtiy of education. thus the system has vast unnecessary costs. what most people need to know to do their jobs does not require a college education, ie a quality college education. establish lower cost technical and business institutes that rely on internet, email and small group meetings in community buildings. some foreclosed homes could be purchased, for example. get rid of "dorms", student life centers and black studies houses, hillel houses and other nongerrmane social feel good capital investments.

there should be one state university in each state of the highest quality-Ivy League quality. Tuition should be free, standards vigorous, A's hard to come by. the survivors would be key leaders in society and business.

religious schools should receive no state aid and no federal loan guarantees. bye bye notre dame, rah rah.

the population reads on a middle school level. we don't need colleges as much as high schools that keep to basics, siphon off troublemakers to work camps, and emphasize loyalty to community and country. Illegal immigrants need not apply.

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servitude is right
Posted by: socialpsych on Feb 5, 2009 4:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I once participated in a commencement ceremony at a Penn State University campus where the guest speaker was none other than Albert Lord, CEO of Sallie Mae, the largest private student loan lender. Mr. Lord had recently given several million dollars to Penn State in a thinly-veiled attempt to buy support for Sallie Mae's bid to get exclusive student lending rights in Pennsylvania. (That didn't work out for Sallie Mae.)

Lord is a nasty, arrogant little man. During his speech to mostly middle- and lower-income students and their families, he talked about how being rich enabled him to do whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted--exactly what new graduates starting their adult lives with $20,000 in student loan debt needed to hear.

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No Consumer Protections WHATSOEVER
Posted by: terradea42 on Feb 5, 2009 4:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My student loan payments per month are nearly $2,000. I can only pay $200 per month. I make under $30,000 per year. I am almost 50 years old. I am lucky to have the job that I have.

I borrowed $25,000 for undergrad and $115,000 for law school (total $140,000). I now owe $185,000 because of fees, interest and penalties. The loan companies refuse to lower my payments because, when I default, they get to add 25% to my loans as a penalty (pure profit for them), increasing what I will owe to $213,000. I pay over 10% interest on some of my student loans.

How did this happen? My partner, who promised to help me pay when I borrowed the money, left. I didn't pass the bar exam so I can't work as a lawyer. I couldn't even find a job doing anything for almost 2 years. Now, even if I could afford to take classes to help me pass the bar exam, and if I could afford to take time off work to take the classes, and then if I could afford to sign up and take the bar exam, I couldn't because, with my debt problems, I would never pass character and fitness (required to take the bar exam). I am totally screwed.

Congress voted on and approved the scenario above. I wonder who paid them to do so.

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Plus Ca Change
Posted by: Lilly on Feb 5, 2009 5:05 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hello, has anybody here ever gone to school? I worked as a TA, teaching 6 hours for $2000 a year plus my tuition. My husband ran two labs AND taught for $3600 a year and since subject animals had to be dosed and bled 24/7 he was in the lab all the hours God sent, while writing his dissertation on the side. Friends who were physicians in training sometimes didn't get home for a week at a time. All of this was indeed a form of indenture. Has something new happened?

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» Touche' Posted by: badkitty68
» this is blatantly false Posted by: inverse_agonist

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Ability to Repay
Posted by: AndyF on Feb 5, 2009 5:37 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The ability to repay student loans should really be a consideration by the lender before the loan is granted. With the current system, all degrees are considered equal and all students are equal. If people were forced to consider up front whether their intended degree typically provides a career path remunerative enough to pay for the loans they intend to take out they would make smarter choices and better match their debt with their income potential. It would also be helpful if the loans weren't piecemealed, but were considered almost as a line of credit - when you sign up for a degree program at a specific school you have in black and white that based on your current income and family resources, you are looking at $20,000 in loans rather than each semester signing off on another $2,500.

In parallel with considering the ability to repay, there should be real efforts made to rein in the costs of college to make it more affordable and to increase merit assistance so that capable students are not denied an opportunity for an education because of low income.

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» RE: Ability to Repay Posted by: madmax427
» RE: Ability to Repay Posted by: phatkhat

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And getting worse
Posted by: kiel on Feb 5, 2009 6:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now some universities (including mine) are trying to save money on the backs of the least-paid workers: Grad student TAs. The administration is considering discontinuing tuition waivers for 25% time TAs (tuition waivers would require a minimum of 33% time appointments). Absolutely appalling.

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» that is appalling Posted by: socialpsych
» Bingo! Posted by: annavan1
» RE: And getting worse Posted by: Socioecologist

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why should anyone repay debt...
Posted by: ismac76 on Feb 5, 2009 6:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
only to go through hardship when it only seems to apply to those who needed the money for basic necessities? It's a shell game where those with too much will give you a little in order to manipulate those who need for those with greed. We build then finance their extravagant, often counter productive, acquisitions.
The so called "system" is fundamentally out of whack, debt is a parasitic disease caused by the inequal distribution of wealth(deficiency based) and everybody should realize that credit scores are just a number for the people with money.
Legal actions need to be enforced and the bad actors will stand out when people draw a line in the sand, which might prevent that system from even functioning beyond issuing liens and whatnot. Are they the latest incarnation of the paper tigers?
Here's an idea, how about a "general strike" of nonpayment on all debts, indefinitely.
Uniquely tailored to our american desire to be anonymous and do nothing, it just might payoff.(or will it?)
But first a surge in spending on prerequisite goods that enable people to do it yourself, grow it yourself, make it yourself, develop micro-scale means of production making what you need and what you are good at relevant to scale.

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Depends. Wife and I both recently acquired our terminal degrees...
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Feb 5, 2009 7:27 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...and are very optimistic about the future.

In my first year out of grad school, I'll make about twice what we need to pay all the bills for our family, college loans included. Her income has been used to fund retirement, home savings (no, we didn't get greedy when the lenders were telling us about "historic deals"), vacations, emergency funds, and normal savings.

I avoided some of the student loan debt by going into the military. $36,000 in cash (it's much more nowadays) from the Montgomery G.I. Bill while in school goes a long way for three years, and I also joined the Army National Guard, who provided me with a tuition waiver.

There are all sorts of options out there for reducing/forgiving student debt for those that care to explore them. Teaching in poor sections of town, debt repayment through military service are choices available.

So is doing it the old fashioned way--the way my little brothers did it and are doing it--living at home and working in the evening if military service and helping to educate poor kids isn't your bag, baby. Bundle that with state programs such as LA's TOPS (which effectively waives tuition at state-funded institutions, and in the interest of being non-discriminatory provides an equal voucher for use at private institutions) and students have many, many, many avenues available to help meet their needs.

The bottom line is that student loans are a tool and an option available to you. Yes, they have in my opinion, helped inflate the cost of tuition, as has the Pell Grant and private loans, and also tuition incentives. Are they the ball-and-chain that the author makes them out to be? Only if you don't exercise your choices to make the cost lower, or choose to take out loans for an education that wasn't worth the price of admission.

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» I offered options. You called names. Posted by: ABetterFuture
» education is a scam Posted by: ismac76
» RE: education is a scam? Creationism? Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Yeah, my dad was a Viet Nam vet... Posted by: ABetterFuture

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All public higher education
Posted by: badkitty68 on Feb 5, 2009 7:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
should be free, and available to anyone who has the ability and desire to do the work. Period. There is no greater investment in a country's future than education, as most other developed nations figured out long ago. Once again, this country stands alone in the total sell-out of its citizenry to profit and corporate interests.
Just as this is the only developed nation where citizens are regularly denied medical care, and can have their life's opportunities destroyed by medical debt, we are the only ones where higher education debts can keep one in a state of economic servitude and limited opportunities for years, if not forever.
Providing all public education as if it was a basic right could be easily funded by simply eliminating corporate tax breaks, loopholes, and offshore tax havens. And by government insistence that all the politically active religious organizations nationwide start paying their rightful taxes.
All those who squawk about how expensive (or socialistic) such an inclusive educational policy would be are strangely silent when it comes to the government throwing a trillion+ dollars (that we don't even have) at multinational corporations, which have already fed at the public trough for years - and who will get the public money with virtually no strings attached or repayment plan, unlike the punitive, sometimes impossible penalties attached to student loan repayment.
For a myriad of reasons, American citizens should be protesting in the the streets en masse. Why the vast majority of Americans continue to accept all this crap is baffling to me. If someone out there can explain that to me, I'd appreciate it. Are we too comfy, too ignorant, or too stupefied by a trivia and entertainment-saturated culture, or is it all of the above? We're clearly not made of the same stuff as our revolutionary ancestors, that's for sure.

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No, men (and women) who pay alimoney are the new indentured servants
Posted by: rickiey on Feb 5, 2009 7:50 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Before you all flame me to a crisp, notice I said alimoney, not child support. There's a huge difference.

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» At least spell it right Posted by: Kelly
» RE: At least spell it right Posted by: rickiey

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Lies
Posted by: esornew on Feb 5, 2009 8:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Student loans made to unaware applicants were fraud! Unaware applicant advised to take unmarketable degree, told repayment would be as low as $10 month, high salary job assured. Result? Indebtness for life.

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Education was an expensive hell even back in the 1990s.
Posted by: CarlaWaters on Feb 5, 2009 9:30 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would say that it simply continues to get worse. To add to Jennifer Bedingfield's point on online education, my husband was able to get his education for less and better quality through an online degree. It is expensive too but luckily his company was kind enough to reimburse him for his masters degree since it related to the job. A couple of his friends who are a few years younger also say that their parents are finding online education cheaper than in class. I cannot say that online education is perfect either and I can imagine the trade-offs. However, I don't think we're all completely indentured. What we need to do is take our level of education and make it clear to the hiring folks that our efforts to sufficiently educate ourselves will not be belittled.

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student loans?
Posted by: ! on Feb 5, 2009 9:53 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
they were foolish enough to loan me money to go to school i have no intention of paying back? its my wall street bonus folks!

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» RE: student loans? Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: student loans? Posted by: !

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Expatriate?
Posted by: Kelly on Feb 5, 2009 10:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am curious how much of a reverse brain drain is occurring in the US because of student loan debt. I know that something like this is happening in New Zealand. PhDs generally graduate with enormous debt loads and often work for a pittance as adjuncts. Running off to England or wherever seems like an attractive choice when it means you can also have a house and a family.

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What will be the point of a college education
Posted by: willymack on Feb 5, 2009 1:31 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If there aren't any jobs to fill due to economic collapse, anyway? High school graduates might just as well march over to the burger joints, because that'll probably be the only jobs left to do.

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The Student Loan Is Soylent Green
Posted by: Sailmariner on Feb 5, 2009 1:31 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wrote this originally in late summer 2007:

The attention now being paid to corrupt practices in the student loan system is a good thing, but there is a fundamental issue that is bigger by far.

What people have not decried is that the giant dual systems of universities and lending institutions operate in tandem to make sure that practically every student comes away from college in debt. Even when they do not actively conspire to do this, they work tacitly together to make it happen.

Like everyone else, I at first could not see the forest for the trees. Our first son went to college with a very encouraging “assistance” package that was almost half the total freshman year costs. He made Dean’s List.

For the sophomore year, they CUT the assistance by about 40 percent. He made Dean’s List that year. For the junior year, they CUT the assistance by about 50 percent of the remaining. He made Dean’s List and, for the senior year (you guessed it), they CUT the assistance to essentially nothing. He made Dean’s List in seven of eight semesters and graduated cum laude. Yet the assistance just dropped and dropped.

Of course, while they were doing this cutting, they were only too happy to help shoehorn him into student loans. In fact, as many students already know, the colleges tend to make you think all “assistance” packages have some component of loans.

This was not the way it was when I went to college in the 1960s. In those days, there was a linkage between your grades and your continued receipt of scholarship money, and colleges were not entangled in the student loan business.

So we found ourselves well immersed into our first son’s college career before we could conclude that there definitely was NO LINKAGE between his good grades and the “assistance” package.

In other words, the colleges give you a big incentive to get you to come to the school, then they keep reducing the money once they have you “hooked.” By your senior year, you will probably take out any amount of loans it takes to finish your degree.

Our second son went to community college and a state school, so we cannot say the experience was identical, but the basic system of cutting assistance even while he made 3.6 or better, was still in place. At least we had learned not to be surprised.

There isn’t some law that says assistance packages have to decrease; assistance policies are a fabrication of the universities (happily abetted by the loan industry).

A lot of people do not remember how it was before the Truth In Lending law, but basically, lenders did whatever they could to disguise the real costs. All the law did was to force them to tell you the actual percentage rate and the total of all payments. This doesn’t seem like much today, but it was a huge leap.

What we need is a kind of Truth in Student Assistance Law that would force universities to disclose their policies. Under such a law, they would be required to give you simple statements like, “your grades will not affect how much money we give you” and “by the time you’re out of here, we have worked it out so that you’ll owe about $50,000 to $100,000 to some lending company.” Such a law would also require them to disclose exactly their relationship to lending companies, in detail.

Further, the one weapon that students and parents have is information, but they need to aggregate their power in this. In other words, students and parents should not keep quiet about assistance plans, they should in fact share it widely. If students and parents understood what was really going on, they might just demand a better system. At least they would not settle for a system where the college fattens them up for the initial year so they can be fed into the lending industry's grinder.

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To everyone who has
Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Feb 5, 2009 4:41 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the attitude of, "Well, why didn't you get a degree in a field where you could get a job?" I have this experience to share.

About ten years ago, I went back to school. I researched and found out that occupational therapists were in hot demand. VERY HOT. So even though I did not much care for the thought of being an occupational therapist, I signed up for OT school.

One year into a two year program EVERYTHING CHANGED. Insurance companies started saying occupational therapy was too much of a repeat of physical therapy so they were no longer going to pay for as much OT. Demand for OTs plunged.

The teacher, who had once promised me that dozens of 50 grand a year jobs would be BEGGING me to work for them when I graduated now said most of us would never get jobs and if we did, we'd be lucky to get 25,000 a year working at the state run institution for the profoundly mentally retarded. You know, the place where the patients have to be helped to not eat their own poop.

I walked out and never regretted it.

So you can not always predict what jobs will be available. They used to say getting a computer science degree would guarantee you a job but then they outsourced them all.

SO IF YOU THINK THE PEOPLE COMPLAINING WERE JUST "STUPID" AND GOT "WORTHLESS" DEGREES, I SAY, GET OVER YOUR ATTITUDE. YOU ARE FULL OF CRAP AND THEN SOME.

Granny's crazy videos = Go get a chuckle!

Luv,
Granny

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Most colleges are based solely on the premise...
Posted by: Naty on Feb 5, 2009 8:02 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...that since they are "licensed" to hand out diplomas that means they are permitted to call themselves places of learning. Most college students are vapid, flighty, and quite frankly irritating. So many of the lower level courses area sorry excuses for a classroom. The professors know that their students are bright but covered in dust, and knowing this refuse to over-exert themselves. That's why I'm a philosophy major, at least professors in this department believe easily in the importance of intellectual exploration.
The saddest thing are these "discussion" sections that are classrooms to supplement lecture. One is expected to participate but most never do with any regularity, and finally wen they do it is done so dutifully.
There are few people around with whom I can really talk to. And when one does find these kinds of people, especially the women, they "flake out". I"m a woman myself and have noticed this lack of consideration for the other party, I used to think this kind of behavior was solely endemic to that other sex... maybe it's just a sign of the times. There is a general sense of angst and slovenliness. A sense that one is interacting with a faceless society.

I believe we are currently on the knife edge of a political revolution... and I fear that it is not going to be so swell for most of us. Hang on tight, and no matter what don't ever lose your morals.

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Bad things happen to good people
Posted by: HSencillo on Feb 6, 2009 2:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Student loan debt policy in the US is the most crippling civil institution on record.

No, people fettered to unmanageable student loan debt are not "indentured servants," they are serfs, bound to the land.

There is no rational much less civic or moral authority to undischargeable overwhelming debt.

Well over 95% of US student borrowers either [a] repay their debt diligently as able, or [b] suffer some catastrophic economic disaster that renders them unable to service that debt. There is NO evidence that student borrowers are scammers, nor naive or foolish when undertaking that debt.

Student loans are borrowed in good faith. These people are investing in their future, and know full well the implications of mortgaging themselves. Yet, borrow they must, as the cost of a university education has in the last two decades reached unconscionable and horrific proportions.

McMansion, some would say? Hell, no. Without a college education, the chances of prosperity and contributing to the GDP as consumers commanding decent wages and salaries are virtually nil. It is a known fact, a force of nature, that the "economy" such as exists today affords little in the way of decent jobs if all you have is high school. Technical schools are well-known for being as much rip-offs with no ROI as not. The ONLY way our economy functions and gets the axles greased is thru consumer spending. Jobs that pay little, for whatEVER reason, smother the national economy.

Currently, the ONLY ways for student loan adjustment that exists are two: literally death, or 100% disability. There is NO way loans can be renegotiated. Within 6 months of graduation, you WILL be in default if you have no job or cannot afford the payments (regardless of amounts; amounts are red herrings.)

Once in default on a student loan in the US, your life is ruined. And there is no way out.

Indentured servants had a way. Serfs, on the other hand, had no way out: they were bound to the land, bought and sold as chattel.

That is what it is to be in the world of student loans.

Defaults are not about fecklessness nor over-indulgence. Bad things happen to good people.

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Brunner test
Posted by: johnnydajogger on Feb 8, 2009 2:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dont despair so quickly. There may be a way to discharge student loans in bankruptcy under the "Brunner Test". Google for that term and check with a local bankruptcy attorney to see if you are eligible. Its a long shot but may be worth looking into.

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