This Looks Like the Start of a Second Great Depression

There is only one idea that is fast enough, big enough and needed enough to keep our economy from falling into a full blown depression. Medicare for All .

Medicare for All can be plugged right into the Medicare platform and be ready to begin acccepting people within weeks, we can start with Medicaid.

Medicare for All gets money into the system from the bottom up not from the top down. Business, State, County, Cities, Agencies and the Under and Unisured all get relief under this plan.

The rationalization of our medical system must be undertaken for another reason as well. Our current sector called Health Care will bankrupt this country if we don’t.

What better opportunity is there? A big boost for the economy and public sentiment while fixing a broken system that all the experts say will bankrupt America.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Unknown infrastructure, measly tax rebates, some money for states ?

Gibberish ...

Obama needs to rally the troops and go for the Big One:

Medicare for All !

Something that the poor, the working poor and the middle class can get behind and work for. Something that will make a real difference in peoples lives today, tomorrow, next year and all the years following that :Guaranteed Health Care !

Medicare for All will indeed rally the troops !

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

FDR didn't give banks money, essentially what the discount rate is right now, to loan out for a profit. That only benefits banks. The money has to hit the pockets of people who will spend it or be used to create jobs that will put money in people's hands.
What this latest Bush travesty has done, with full Democratic complicity, is the worst of both worlds. It does NOTHING to help the guy on the street, uses up what resources are available and rewards those largely responsible for the problem in the first place.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/ finance/4125947/Willem-Buiter-warns-of-massive -dollar-collapse.html

(close-in the spaces for the link)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The GOP wise men, having steered our economy into an iceberg, are burning the lifeboats and smashing holes in the hull with the fire axes.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Stopping the slide into a second Great Depression has to be the number one priority for Obama. But how to do this is the big problem. It may already be too late.

This current crisis is a structural crisis of the US economy; the way we produce and distribute wealth and power in society, the culmination of thirty years of catastrophic mismanangement and wrong moves. Reversing and rebuilding will take time, time we don't have.

But many people have done very well out of the years of plenty, mostly at the expense of the many and their futures. The few have become even more powerful and even more wealthy. They won't give up their gains, the dismantlement of the 'New Deal' without a fight.

The really big problem is that the US is far, far, weaker than it was during the last Great Depression in a whole range of different areas. This will make getting out of a depression much, much, harder than most economists realise, especially the ones who for ideological reasons denied that a second Great Depression was even a remote possibility, as we'd entered the 'promised land' of economics!

This new depression could actually be worse than the Great Depression, though not a lot of people are prepared to envisage this frightening thought. Not only that, because of the fundamental and structural weaknesses of the economy, it could easily become a 'permanent' feature with no light at the end of the tunnel.

Is there no hope then? Yes, but it will require a tremendous effort on a scale that will dwarf the New Deal and will automatically be labeled 'socialism' by the ruling elite who've done so well out of the last thirty years of wealth and power redistribution, their lavish lifestyles paid for by the impoverishmnent of the American people.

Getting the economy moving again will require the biggest redistribution of wealth in American history and redistributing it towards the bottom, re-building American soiciety from the bottom upwards, the opposite of 'trickle down' obviously such a social and economic revolution isn't going to be easy to impliment and the tragedy and dilemma is that the economic conditions will have to deteriorate even further before the American people are sufficiently 'mad' to force through the root and branch changes that are needed.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Flush that toxic economic turd down the toilet. Things are going wrong for a reason: the current economy is corrupt, wasteful, wrong and unsustainable. It's going down inspite of it being hosed with epic amounts of cash.

It is a perversion of Keynes to do what the US and the UK are doing; throwing trillions of good money after bad. We are getting nothing for this; no infrastructure, no new economy, nothing. Just the knowledge that some sharp businessmen have been compensated for their bad bets.

The depression is so underway: I was in New York over xmas and had most of the airport to myself. New York, at xmas time?

I am looking forward to all the white wine-swilling, sex-in-the-city chicks going down with their credit card bills and too-big mortgages. The economy was sick and it is now getting an enema. Bend over!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

We need to return to the basics - security of food/water, shelter, medical care, transportation, clothing, etc. Much of current mass economic anxiety has to do with the widespread fear of people losing these things. So if we could eliminate this fear we would all be much better off.

One of the main reasons people have gone in to such debt over the last few decades is not because they live extravagant lifestyles but rather that they had to spend such a large portion of their income for these basic items. People paying 1/3-1/2 of their income just for a simple roof over their head? Ridiculous. Decent food is also A LOT more expensive than the media and others like to say. When you add up basic utilities like water, electricity, phone, and other things people are clearly getting ripped off.

It seems to me quite absurd that we live in this very advanced 21st century where providing the absolute basics to people is clearly an attainable goal yet still there is a class of people (parasites, wolves, hyenas - call them what you will) who like to profit very heavily just to provide the people with the basics of life.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The growing economic cataclysm seems to be causing people to forget recent history.

To wit: Bill Clinton inherited the biggest deficit in U.S. history from Bush I. In eight years, he turned that deficit into the biggest surplus in U.S. history. We also enjoyed the longest sustained economic boom in U.S. history, with higher income at all levels, if memory serves.

Now of course, Bush II has piddled away that surplus, leaving us in the mess we're in. You don't have to be an economist to surmise that even moderate Democratic policies can go a long way to stop the hemorrhaging of money the Right have caused. My advice to President Obama is to go left. Go far left, young man, and quickly.

As for the Democratic Congress' alleged complicity with the Bush gang, it just ain't so:

"President Bush's success rating in the Democratic-controlled House has fallen this year to a half-century low, and he prevailed on only 14 percent of the 76 roll call votes on which he took a clear position.

"So far this year, Democrats have backed the majority position of their caucus 91 percent of the time on average on such votes. That marks the highest Democratic unity score in 51 years."
linked text

If Congress broke a 50-year record in opposing the President's agenda, it won't do to call them complicit.

Come to beautiful Wingnutania!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Someone has accurately described this mess as privatized profit and socialized loss. How much more proof do the clueless American people need?

The mask has been yanked away from the phantom of this silly operetta and the real, ugly face of the so-called "Reagan Revolution is revealed for all to behold:

THEY are allowed to run roughshod over our social and economic infrastructure. WE are expected to clean up THEIR mess. TEHY walk away from the economic canage relatively unscathed, THEIR tax cuts, quarterly dividend checks and multi million dollar severance packages firmly in place, while WE bear the burden of THEIR greed and recklessness.

FUCK THEM!

Post#200: The Worst of "The Rant"

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

As for "the economy" and the impending catastrophe, there continues to be much confusion between actual causes - basic imbalances of the economy, greed through speculative "economic activity", wastefulness and inefficiency built into our war economy (see S. Melman on that)- and the triggers of the events or situations that are the consequences of these basic problems - the actualities, the details of how this is or will be playing out.
What is needed is monetary reform, or since the constitution has so little to say, let's drop the "re" of reform and call it constitutional bylaw-making. We need a fourth branch of government with the power not only to mint (as the constitution already calls for) but also to distribute what is referred to (usually with derision) as fiat money, its value (the amount and speed of the money "injection" or monetization) tied into a the ongoing activity of our several economic sectors working together in balance, to a great extent through agreed upon formula, which together with economic data would both (though with greater focus the latter) be under periodic and transparent review by governmental bodies. In addition, this would need to operate simultaneously with a wage-price sovereignty protection mechanism to handle non-domestic trade, the purpose of which would be to keep our wages and prices near where it should be, to maintain balance of our economy.
This would benefit not just USA but other national economies and I have little doubt would be copied by other nations.
Let's keep uppermost in our minds the contradiction of poverty amidst plenty, or potentially plenty/enough - that it (the desire or need to do or make do with something) occurs simultaneously with idle-though-available labor and resources. There must be a better way; why shouldn't we as a society be able to direct our own energies in such a more rewarding way, a manner that allows us to direct our personal energies with greater autonomy and justice?
Check out monetary.org and join in that much more productive conversation.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Trying to stop drug use by controlling supply doesn't work. You have to work on demand. I think the same thing is true to some degree when it comes to economics.

You can't attack this problem from the supply side - they've been doing that, throwing dollars at the banks to increase credit and it's done nothing. Partly because there weren't adequate strings attached, so the banks aren't using the money as they should, but the basic problem, in my uneducated opinion, is that people aren't spending.

A huge amount of our economy is based on consumer spending. Look at what's happened to the real purchasing power of the average person's wages. We've lost ground over the past few decades, and though a lot of people propped up their lifestyles with credit and home equity, now they're realizing that the bills are coming due.

You want to get the economy moving again? Get money into the hands of the people. Reward businesses that pay a living wage. Pass national health care. Deal with the mortgage situation. People who are afraid they're going to lose their houses, cars, or be forced into bankruptcy with the next medical emergency aren't going to spend. They don't spend, businesses fail, more unemployment - everything spirals out of control. And pass policies that will reward and encourage saving, so the banks have capital and the people have some security.

(I'm leaving aside the larger question as to whether an economy based on consumer spending is a good thing - I'd say that it's not, as it's not sustainable environmentally, but it's what we have, and I don't see much support from politicians for a radical revisioning of the American economy.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

What has traditionally passed for Democracy in the USA is now being exposed for what it actually is: an illusion.

Yes, the American Dream (with its inherent christianity) is finally being exposed for the DELUSIONAL ILLUSION it actually is!.

Same goes for all those other “christianized” fools in the West, who have slavishly followed this Naked Roman Emperor for the past 2,00 years!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

among all the great issues posted so far this morning and the anger typed... now that the american people have seen how low prices can go and still leave the majority of retailers open today after all the sale signs during the holiday season... people have now seen how they have been ripped off for profit for years and will be unwilling to pay original prices... if 2/3 of this society depends on spending, people now know the difference between fair price and price gouging...

another thing... why are food prices still rocketing to the moon, why is the electric bill through the roof for the same kilowatt hours as before, why is the water bill almost double for the same amount of water used this time last year, why are we still making people homeless who rent and the owners foreclose??? basic needs are still escalating... shelter, warmth, food, water are human needs... and human wants are the things dropping in price???

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

That's where we are. All the academics spent billions on studies and higher education programmes and books to not replicate the mistakes of the first great depression. And guess what? They have just lead us into something even worse. Nice work guys!

Think about it: if you got yourself into major debt, did some things you are really embarassed by, pissed some people off, did some things you didn't want the wife to know, and then the president came by and said he would magic it all away for free, just give a couple bucks to the begger on the way to the subway stop, what would you do? Would you really care about the begger when the money goes into your account? Or would you be too busy partying to celebrate your new freedom?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

As I'm seeing the pattern, the prices have been so desperately slashed on just about everything especially oil so consumerism ain't dying. Besides, the arms industries have yet to ask for a bailout and all the crappy TV shit has yet to die out. When people can no longer watch American Idol and/or the arms industries explicitly ask for a huge bailout, then people will act. After all, Israel wouldn't be thriving without unlimited guns and bombs from the US despite the enormous expense the taxpayers will have to "accept".

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The economic philosophy of the top, dare I say 'elite' people is the core reason for our many and varied issues in this economy. Most economists advising government clowns have never had a real job, most have never been 'down sized', out-sourced or told their benefits or salaries are being cut for 'corporate purposes'. The entire reason things are so insidiously and unstoppably FUBARed is because those who have millions in the bank and have had it for a LONG time (or worse yet, for those who have chosen to forget- I'm talking at YOU, recently-minted upper middle class assholes!) have never seen what real life is like for us peons. The manager of the division where I work- a man who makes $500K a year-whose job is literally his entire life (an issue for another day) literally can't understand why he can't get a technical person to work for him in Los Angeles for $50K a year. His thinking is typical of the moron cabal in DC who don't understand- and really WILL NOT understand-that life for those below the mid-6 figure line is actually hard and stressful, not because they can't figure out how to squeeze another 100 mil into their department's corporate profit margin or how they can manage to work another 10 hours a week on top of the 100 they already spend at their office or how they have it hard because they can't afford yet another ski resort in Aspen. The disconnect has reached such an obsene level that the only way these assholes will ever understand is to join us in our misery, or really, to take a jog to the poverty line themselves. As I've said in many other posts, the only way things will ever really be fixed is by massive poverty and hunger. Its only when stubborn people have reality shoved up their ass with a jackhammer that they will wake up- because only by waking up will they have any actual chance to survive.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

In the immortal words of George "Wanker" Bush:

"Bring It ON!"

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

You are being robbed in the manner in which that Thomas Jefferson warned you... By parasites. America has been cursed with a corrupt, fraudulent, parasitic, and counterfeit banking system. A system of social credit is the solution these parasites fear most

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Previous recessions and depressions were the result of bad policy. Our recent policy was doubtlessly bonkers, but this time, we're also hitting the limits of the earth itself. Putting people in debt for life used to work as a economic policy because the people labored their whole lives producing items of value (cars, electronics, whatever) to pay off the massive debt of their mortgage. The monetary debt, which was never anything more than a fiction, spurred people to create items of real worth out of the raw materials of the earth.

That no longer works because the raw materials of the earth are limited. It's no coincidence that the whole Ponzi scheme collapsed when the amount of work being performed by the global economy made the prices of oil and metal unsustainable. As a result, we have to do less work - and therefore, fewer people have jobs and fewer people get to have the products and services of the productive economy. If we try to resume the same amount of manufacturing and construction we had a couple years ago, the prices of all these commodities will soar again and the global economy will crash again.

We have to re-engineer the way that society is built so that all of our resources go to projects that genuinely improve our lives. We can commute an hour to work anymore, or get bigger houses than our neighbors to show our status. All those resources need to go into producing food, rescuing the medical system, and scientific research to ease our predicament.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Stopping the pending "depression" is like stopping an avalanche once it has begun.

The men who lived through the first great depression left us with a set of laws that would have prevented the coming depression. But in our infinite wisdom, we believed wanks (like you Krugman) who told us things like "it's a new economy" and "real estate will always go up in value". So we repealed Glass Steagle and allowed the Ponzi that we call modern finance to grow.

"Depression 2.0" cannot be stopped at this point, but if we are lucky, we can learn not to listen to these anti regulation, supply side types and maybe we will have a stable standard of living again in 5 or 10 years.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I would suggest that Butter is more critical than Guns. Force the military to reduce spending 50%. Close the 700+ foreign US military bases and use the money to shore up US internal needs. What rational exists to keep bases in Japan, Okinawa, Germany, Italy and hundreds of others places? It is perverse. Stop the war economy and replace it with a humane economy for everyone. I'd rather see modern hospitals than $700M Iraqi embassies.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Just like in ancient times amongst the Jews (as per the torah), what we need is a periodic "debt forgiveness by decree".

The monetary/fiat money system is designed from the beginning to fail. It HAS to fail/collapse at some point because it depends on constant growth, which is exponential. Exponential growth is impossible to sustain indefinitely. A steady increase as a percentage is, by definition, exponential and cannot last. It doesn't matter if it is population growth, oil use, housing starts, money supply, economic growth, it is all exponential and thus doomed to crash periodically.

The monetary/fiat system REQUIRES growth in the money supply. It is exponential. We are well up the hockey stick in this regard. Soon, the Fed will have to be pumping out trillions of dollars a month, then a week, then a day, then a minute. This is impossible to sustain and REQUIRES collapse. All the scurrying economists and political criminals can do is try to slightly prolong the system until it simply cannot be sustained any longer and then, POOF!, it MUST collapse.

ANY system based on, or dependent upon, exponential growth (2% a year, 4% a year, etc, is EXPONENTIAL) must ultimately collapse. We are near that inevitable point. End of story.

One way, one ancient way, to reboot the system is to decree periodic forgiveness of debts. Do so now. If you have a mortgage, your mortgage is forgiven and you now OWN the house outright. If you are paying on a car, POOF, forgiven and you OWN it. If you are a corporation with a loan outstanding, POOF, not any more. This is no more absurd than doing what we are doing right now, trying to keep the hamster running ever faster in the crazy wheel, to keep the whole system going for just a little while longer.

Doing what we are doing is doomed to fail. End of friggin story. In 5 years, 10 years, whatever, the US monetary system (and all other systems tied intimately to it) will explode and die. It has to. The hockey stick of exponentials cannot be defeated by trying to increase the ceiling on exponential growth. The earth, resources, and people are a finite resource. To continue exponential growth indefinitely requires INFINITE resources and INFINITE room and none of that exists.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I find it interesting that after 44 comments on this article, not a single one addresses trade policy; the fact that we have become increasingly an exporter of natural resources and importer of manufactured goods - farming out our labor to formerly third world nations at near slave wages, selling out and putting our own manufacturing work force out of work in the process. We used to be a country that made things, but now we just buy them. Only the money is running out.

When our government finally reinstitutes trade policies that are fair to workers here, that is when our economy will finally begin to recover. Until then, everything else will be the equivalent of putting bandages over a festering wound that without the anitbiotics (of tariffs) will turn gangrenous and threaten the entire economic structure of our society for decades to come.

Quick, reach out and grab something right now on your desk, countertop, etc. that was actually made in the United States of America! Excepting many of our own bodies, I bet you can't.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The U.S. government owes ten trillion dollars, partly to Post-Mao China, partly to Middle Eastern kingdoms. Minimally servicing the debt costs $500 billion every year. We barely have that much. If all foreign bankers call in their debts next year, we have a balloon that we can't refinance. Then the dollar isn't worth a dime.

The real nightmare scenario driving the next great depression is that we can't pay our national debts, ever. We have to go to the lenders, hat and martini glass in hand like GM, and ask people that don't like us to write off half the debt in exchange for us paying off the other half in blood. Otherwise the U.S. economy collapses and takes the world down the tubes too.

We are for sale, just as Argentina was for sale five years ago. They solved their debt crisis with 70% unemployment. Ready?

Your life savings in the bank is not for sale, it will simply be drained 50% to 90% by a weakened dollar, just like Brazil did. Stagflation will be carefully managed between savings and stocks, so that your investments in most stocks will drop 50% too. Don't even ask about your home value.

Your Social Security Trust Fund is not for sale, it's just for 100% borrowing against. The Brooklyn Bridge is for sale if someone can put a toll booth on it. States are already selling off toll roads to foreign bidders. Your water utility is for sale just so the current mayor can enjoy a big windfall.

Your environment's health is for sale. Notice how your country is no baloney accelerating into coal power?

Notice how all this adds up to real debts for Americans in 20 years. Maybe the depression will last for generations. Instead of Guatemalans picking bananas and working in near-slavery conditions for generation after generation, with foreign-trained death squads enforcing the deal, now your kids can pick some low-value crop for export. And their kids, and their kids too.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

This won't be like last time, because despite the many parallels, something enormous has changed in the meantime--we've lost most of the real base of the economy, which is the natural world. Oh yeah, we still have a full size planet--but with five times the population of 1933, we have one fifth the per capita resources. We also have much more pollution to deal with, one third of our arable land is degraded, fish stocks are plummeting, and the climate is spiraling out of control. Hate to say it, boys and girls, but a drastic and prolonged slashing of our standard-of-living is devoutly to be wished for, and might reduce the population crash we're now facing. Better that we all slow our consumption of resources and emitting of pollution now, than that virtually all of us and other species as well die off when the crash comes. Because of climate change, a reduction in fossil fuel use is incredibly urgent--it will not come in sufficient degree or timeliness by policy change alone. Meanwhile, we are passing the peak of oil with worldwide demand skyrocketing. Is it possible to resolve this through policy change alone? Yes, technically possible, but extremely unlikely given that the human tendency toward selfishness and short-sightedness is unfortunately compounded in our leaders. More likely it will result in skyrocketing oil prices--a good thing--and also in warfare. Given the proliferation of nuclear weapons, this is a threat that can't be overstated.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Legalize Pot
Tax Pot
Done

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

???

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

So, I spent nearly 4 hours in the unemployment line yesterday, 90 minutes before the doors even opened. I arrived so early because my previous day's 2.5 hour wait wasn't sufficient to get access to the 1 and only woman authorized to handle unemployment claims.

By the time the doors opened at 8:30 am, there were about 30 people in line, only 16 of which could be seen by noon. Once inside, you could pass the time by watching the front receptionist turn new arrivals away (trying desperately to manage their anger) amidst many many phone calls of equally desperate folks who cannot get through to the call center to file their claim because the over-taxed system keeps crashing.

People in line try to commisserate with one another, probably to provide some distraction from waiting outside for over an hour when it's under 10 degress...

And this is the kicker.

The middle-aged white man directly behind me arrived in a confederate-flag-draped pickup, and spent his time in line recruiting the other white men around him to his rants about how this problem is caused by lazy and dependent blacks and latinos on welfare. That prompts another white guy to respond, laughingly, "Did you ever drive into Holyoke or Springfield any afternoon and just see them all standing around doing nothin'?". It never occurs to either of them that, maybe, just maybe, that suffering is a precursor, a diagnostic, for where we're all headed, for those most neglected suffer most and suffer first. Deindustrialization, low property values, poverty, poor schools...where do you start?

I doubt they will grasp the sociological complexity of such a reply however, so, instead, I (a very young looking white woman), turn and say, simply, "I grew up on welfare. The majority of welfare recipients are white. Please knock it off."

The instigator changes approach: "Well, none of this would be happening if they just privatized unemployment insurance."

I burst out laughing, and looked down the line--"You see this? This is the RESULT of privatization--the collapse of our public infrastructure."

But his comments remained with me the rest of the day.

Relevance to this essay? The reason the GOP can obstruct a stimulus package and cling to the now-thoroughly-discredited Milton Friedman is because they have LEGIONS of working folks (those who are suffering) who have completely misdiagnosed the situation and will therefore willfully support the very policies (or lack thereof) that got us into this mess. And never, never, underestimate how easily racism primes white working folks to not see plainly the reality around them--even, for heaven's sake--while standing in an unemployment line at 7 in the morning in 10 degree weather.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I hate to say it, but it feels like that is where we are headed if this Stim Package plan President OBAMA wants doesn't get passed QUICKLY!
The country needs a transfusion.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

It is not much and only marginally related, but it IS an action item.

Borders Books discriminates against Native Americans by excluding the books about their religion into the history section. They are trying to to tell us something. No really, they are trying to tell us Native Americans do not have a religion, and if they did, it is history.

I think this is wrong, but I also think they do it for a reason, a propaganda type reason that ties into a big fraud based on deniability. It is a conspiracy to keep native people from exercising their rights. The feds have ALWAYS done this as a cost cutting measure. (Paying natives what they are legally owed would bankrupt the federal government.)

But it also is legally constricting us all, if the native religions were recognized as real religion, everyone would have the legal right to practice them. By keeping them boxed up as a 'fake' religion, the DEA can regulate (prevent) our freedom of religious practice.

Very clever, very nasty, and very destructive. It is a conspiracy against the Native American Church. This is a form of ethnic cleansing. Here is another example, Bush - he put the wreck in recognition.

So if you would like to let Borders know you disapprove of religious segregation against Native Americans, please call their customer care number. You can tell them Lauren sent you if you want, I am supposed to get a call back from them explaining their policy (again). Thanks.

1-800-322-2000

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The debate about how to "stimulate" the economy is ongoing, and seems to always focus on either the Friedman view or the Keynes view. I seldom here anyone talk about the very root of the economy; natural resources. Everything we produce comes from a raw material. Some are renewable, some are not. The issue with non-renewables (read fossil fuels and minerals) is already becoming a problem, with huge increases in demand, and increasing difficulty on the supply side, along with unstable prices. Renewable resources (clean water, plants, fish, meat, etc) are also beginning to show problems of supply and demand. So, maybe I'm just a naive environmentalist who doesn't know anything about economics, but here's how I see it. The economy (local and global) cannont continue to "grow". There's only so much we can extract, produce, use and discard before we reach a tipping point, and I think we're seeing that tipping point creeping up on us. We in the US have expolited the world's resources (including human resources) for a long time in order that we may have cheap goods, always available, and in large quantities. Instead of exploiting poor folks in poor states and communities to make our textiles and trinkets like we used to, we now have China doing it. Do you think they'll do it dirt cheap for much longer? Cheap labor from China is a human resource that will eventually run out. And, how sustainable is it to cut down trees in N. America, sell them to China, ship them to the other side of the world, have cheap labor make cheap furniture out of those trees, and ship it back to N. America so we can buy it at Wal-Mart for always low prices? This can't continue. Our economy must get smaller and more local, as should the economies of the rest of the world. Economies must also focus on the life cycle of the things we make and use, and start making things out of renewable material, that themselves may be recycled and reused, all the while decreasing the waste stream and byproducts of the manufacturing process. If we don't transform our economy now to be smaller and more renewable, and less energy-intesnsive, we're on a dead-end path.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

was everyone talking about how the country was about to go through a Great Depression? If not, then this isn't just like then, right?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

was everyone talking about how the country was about to go through a Great Depression? If not, then this isn't just like then, right?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I've never understood what was so 'great' about depression.

"High tonight, low tomorrow, with a considerable chance of precipitation." Tom Waits

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I'm not fond of thinking that Uncle Sugar can or should solve all our problems, but he certainly can use preventive measures, and should use the weight of the law against abusers. All the banksters who've been given billions of dollars in bailouts and have since then openly said they won't use the money to issue credit, but will instead use it to pay down their own debt and pay bonuses, should be made to give the money back, or be thrown in jail. This is fraud on the American people, yet any regulatory strings attached to these bailouts are nominal to none.

Levying massive taxes on US companies that export jobs, yet have unfettered access to our market with their products and services, will fill up a lot of dry wells and allow american businesses to compete on a level playing field with the multinationals who have had so much of the money supply and have used it to "open up" foreign countries for their products and services. Healthy stateside competition will create jobs galore.

Using money that would have been corporate welfare to restore social security and lock it up for good will instill confidence in the future among millions of people who are now in their last 20 years of work. They will breathe more easily, buy new cars, give college money to grandkids, etc.

Stopping all these wars that are being waged on false pretenses will make available some 320 billion per year for infrastructure, schools, hospitals and other elements of the common good. I have never been able to find out Obama's position on the covert operations to destabilize Iran, exposed by Seymour Hersh last summer, but I doubt he will fail to play the game.

The problem with stimulus packages is that they throw money out like sloshing paint in the general direction of the canvas. Some goes where it will help, but much of it goes where it won't help at all, or will encourage bad patterns that we refuse to acknowledge, stop, sanction, punish. We've become sensitized to the number "billion" and have lost any sense of what you can do with a billion dollars here and there.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Go to "steadystate.org" and read their position paper. Please support it with your signature, and by promoting their ideas.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Am I an idiot or did we just borrow $850 billion from the Federal Reserve bank at interest so that we could then GIVE it to failing banks for nothing of value in hopes that they might loan it back to us at interest?
what?
still no information has been disclosed about how this money has been used and who has been paid or what they are doing with it.
Meanwhile, our tax dollars go (and will soon fail) to pay off the interest on a rising infinite principle called the National Debt. THIS is the largest ponzi scheme. Madoff is peanuts next to this.
Currency reform, kill the debt.
The resources are there for health care, housing, and an end to poverty. How the resources are used and who controls them is what is creating artificial scarcity and panic.
Take back our property. Kill the debt.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

This is starting to feel like Old Europe just with better smelling women

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Ditto for Krugman's old Princeton crony at the "Fed" Bernanke. Krugman also fails to mention that ALL the economists he cites (Keynes, Freidman, etc) were funded by the Rockefeller or Rothschild end of the old Fascist banking monopoly.

The issue is Organized Corporate Crime Rule in charge of the entire system from the phony Ponzi trap "Federal Reserve" Corp Fascist bank (not federal, minus zero reserves) to a Washington-MSM circus fully owned by and operated by the usual felons.

Looting the system for a parasite ruling class is THE core issue that hasn't changed from before the Gilded Age to the foisting of the unconstitutional and criminal "Fed" created in 1913.

Like England before it, the U.S. is being systematically gutted into third world status by globalist criminals that use nations like toilet water.


“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers."
Thomas Pynchon (Gravity’s Rainbow 1973)

“The minority, the ruling class at present, has the schools and press, usually the Church as well, under its thumb. This enables it to organize and sway the emotions of the masses, and make its tool of them.”
Doctor Albert Einstein (in a letter to Sigmund Freud 7/30/1932. 1879-1955)

“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency… the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered… The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of [private] lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.”
President Thomas Jefferson - 1743-1826

“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the government of the U.S. ever since the days of Andrew Jackson. History depicts Andrew Jackson as the last truly honorable and incorruptible American president.”
President FDR (on de facto Fascist rule in a letter to corporate monopoly charlatan “Colonel” Edward M. House, co-founder of the Council on Foreign Relations and political fixer for the ruling class. House also handled President Wilson. 11/21/ l933)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Yes, we need a universal, comprehensive, national, single-payer, not-for-profit healthcare system. Let's hope the politiians can exhibit enough backbone to insist on it.

Beyond that, here's a novel proposal for a "bailout" aimed at people instead of corporations: a federal grant of $1 million to each registered voter in the country with an income of $200,000 or less. What would that cost? Much less than $150 billion,I'd guess. The big majority of that money would be spent - and spent here in the U.S. - on things like mortgages, consumer goods, debts, medical expenses, travel, etc. Wouldn't that influx of dollars into circulation give the economy a boost? Compared to the "bailouts" of the big corporations and banks, it would be cheaper and would go to people who would use it to better their own situations, and provide a major stimulus to the economy at the same time. Isn't that what we need and want? Paul Krugman, what do you think??

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Sure, we need all the stimulus we can get. Electric paddles to the chest! But here's my worry. Any stimulus that takes the form of checks from the government to ordinary people will not be spent on new consumer goods because it has already been spent. Consumers have so much debt that any money you give them will be spent trying to pay that down, as it should be. But paying down old debt for consumer goods that have already been consumed will not create jobs or anything else. We're in a deep deep hole and our wheels are spinning helplessly.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Krugman may be a nobel prize winning economist, but plenty of prescient and highly renowned professionals were way out ahead of Krugman on this. They know what will be proved in short order: Deficits do matter, particularly when your deficit spending is not bolstered by a concomitant increase in tax revenue or production after the worst part is behind us.

The recession will one day draw to a close, but we will still be left with the same slipshod and cut-rate economy that got us into this mess. We can no longer rely on financial chicanery as a means toward the end of sustainable GDP growth. To be succinct, the wealth of this nation was predicated on cardboard, cookie cutter homes cum ATMs. Those days are over.

Remember something here, boys and girls. The US industrial base has been gutted and the tertiary economy is a scam. People still want goods (not services so much) - be it cheap plastic trinkets from China or expensive, highly polished and exquisitely engineered whatchamacallits from Germany. We do neither of those things.

Another thing to consider: fully 70% of our GDP is derived from internal consumer consumption. If we actually produced anything noteworthy, it would not be such a serious problem. But we're buying Japanese and German cars and Chinese trinkets. We are doing nothing to strengthen our economy from within. Our outlook is extremely poor and no amount of government spending will bail us out. Hyperinflation, maybe. Devalued currency - almost certainly. And that money must be repaid at some point. Tough to do when you aren't exporting anything of value.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Paul Krugman is easier to tolerate than most economists but is not much more to the left than John Kenneth Galbraith. I don't expect to see Ravi Batra in Obama's cabinet but that is more like what is needed. If capitalism wants to save itself it needs to freeze prices and double wages, and if the corporations don't like it order them to commit suicide or go along with it because that is the only way to save their system. If every minimum wage worker gets paid enough to buy a house and car because the minimum wage becomes 20 dollars an hour and there is a freeze on prices the economy will grow enough to survive. If prices are allowed to rise the $20 an hour won't mean anything anymore. To save capitalizm from the capitalists would be interesting as they (the capitalists) whine and cry and sometimes jump in front of freight trains to end it all.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Many people who lived through the Great Depression believed it to be the best period of their lives.

Read some of the oral histories which were made from people of that time. It is inspirational.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

In response to those who think the economic solution is to increase consumer spending, why can't we as a nation use our "ingenuity" and figure out a way to increase manufacturing and exports? 50 years ago this country actually made things... kind of hard to imagine now. We could whittle away at that annoying trade deficit, and put a lot of people to work in a meaningful way.
Instead of hiring greeters for WalMart, hire people to build hi-tech windmills, for starters.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Want to see where it went? Check it out:

www.propublica.org/special/show-me-the-tarp-money ( Keep scrolling down the page...it goes on for quite a while.)

In the old days, banks gave away toasters to get people to deposit their cash. Now, they bypass us and take it directly out of the Treasury before we get it! They "borrow" it from us (aka "steal") and we pay interest, also into private hands. I heard today that the national debt we are paying is a stunning 70% of the GDP.

Sushi
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you two hundred dollars and a substantial tax cut save you thirty cents?"

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Obama should start by selling off the recent purchase of White House china on ebay. I'm sure he will pull in more than the almost 1/2 million dollars worth paid for it (by private entity). He could pay off the entities stake, buy reasonable priced china (hey, from China maybe?), and pay down the debt with the rest. It's just a start but I can't see how he (Obama), or anyone else in their right minds could eat off of plates purchased during the term of the 'one' who simply stands by and watches the economy drop into depression. I'm sure there are two time Bush voters who would love to get their hands on Bushware. He will definitely pull in a lot of money on that sale.

After that selloff, maybe he could continue and get us out of an illegal war and put the money from that into our debt as well. Some of it into Medicare, but most of it into our debt. How many of us can run trillion dollar deficits and not get booted out of our homes? We can keep our troops safe at home and continue to fund the military but at a more reasonable amount. We have bases all around the world that should be closed. I know a few stores that have closed in my home town, why can't a few bases close as well?

He will most likely also want to start investing in America in the job of manufacturing things again. America needs to start selling things and stop just buying them. And I don't mean build military hardware to sell to Israel to bomb the Palestines with either. The military hardware we build should be used only to defend America, not allow us to run roughshod over and around the world because we have to get rid of this years bombs.

Just a thought. I have lots of them. Oh and one more thought, we need to clean house in the house and senate. We have well paid politicians who don't listen to their constituents, maybe it's because they the politicians still have jobs?

I'm still waiting, it won't be long now, when Bush pardons himself (legally!?) and the other crooks in Washington. If we drop into a depression, I think some people may take offense to someone so guilty the stink emenates all the way to California, retire with full healthcare benefits, and a nice pension (for life).

We all have dropped into making fun of things that go on in Washington and around our country. Crooks are running the show. I think it's time to stop making light of this and demand action or make action happen.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

change the length of a ruler and change the direction of a dynamic system. Keynes always was right. Changing the value of money or the amount of money in circulation does not change the 75 cars per hour that a General Motors assembly plant can produce. Productivity is productivity. Monitarism has absolutely nothing to do with the ability of a nation or a company to produce. For that matter it has absolutely nothing to do with my ability to work, produce, or the speed with which I am able to do anything. Monitarism is crap and always was crap. It was ignored by the academic world for a generation after it was invented in Vienna.

Paul Krugman is as insightful as any econ PhD I have ever read. He is much better than some I have known personally. I would gladly vote for him for president.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

was talking about issues beyond my own family dear... have gardened like a crazy person for years but now that we are in a more urban area, do not have any dirt to start a garden, but have been battling our city for several years to set aside some lawn in town for community gardens to no avail... don't just shop at a farmers market but have a subscription every season with a local organic farm... and still shop other local small farmers for additional produce to can or freeze for the off season...

my pickup has hauled a full size buffalo every year from a neighbor rancher of my parents so all of my relatives get to stock the fridge... the bed of my truck has been the traditional butchering table for years...

for odds and ends visit my local Vietnamese grocery store and never, NEVER set foot in a big box store for anything... that's just on the food front, but thanks for your thoughts... :)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

er, except for Obama. Anyone hear him this morning, talking about cuts to the "entitlements" while leaving some of Bush's millionaire tax cuts in place? Well, in truth he didn't say "millionaire tax cuts". He just said Bush's tax cuts, but you know what I mean, in general. Thy messiah is about to crucify thee.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

In the 'news', today & recently, there is much talk about how China has changed their policy.

China has apparently began to invest more in China itself. The World 'economy' is slowing down and many foreign investore are (and have been) pulling out of the United States. (outright buying of hard assets do seem to be attractive though to other countries)

China knows about Obama's 'stimulus package' in America and this too is causing China and others to shy-away.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

First of all, our Government's agenda has been the very opposite of what they have told us the people. We are NOT a democracy at all nor even a 2 party system: it is "theatricals" & charades: military term is "perception management"; PUBLIC PERCEPTION: via images, TV, & PRINT, & RADIO: making you THINK something is true when in reality it is NOT. Every other nation SEES the USA citizens as SLAVES: & do NOT want to be enslaved as well. Being "told" we are "free" THIS is the same "freedom" they are trying to force on every nation globally & they are so wealthy folks they are BRIBING & have bribed the heads of other countries to hey hey hey do it our way we have gotten away with it for years! Usury laws PREDATE the Constitution & have been in existance since banking began: in the 70's STate laws passed stating the LAND USE was under the control of POLICE: making each state a police state; suddenly fixed low interest housing rates were tossed out the window: & "prepaid" homes were forced to pay "penalities" etc: bogus fees added & went on to credit cards; ALL ILLEGAL folks; & since our Gov was in full knowledge & consent of it that makes our Gov dictatorships, & criminals & all the $ gotten from these have to be paid back 5 times the amount borrowed: minus the "bogus" interest & fees; Take a deep breath 3 times: however, our COURTS call the "administration" to see HOW they are to RULE!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

while they all play the games in Washington and we still are going to fail and fall. I question what the American people will do to fix it, starting with the Washington Gameplayers.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

James A. Swanson, Los Altos, CA
www.bushleagueofnations.com [for FREE download of entire book]

From Reagan’s presidency through that of Bush II, the GOP used its government power to create the Second Gilded Age in America, at the expense of common men and women.

Give trillions of dollars to the Super Rich and Big Business. Run up multiple enormous unsustainable deficits and debts.

Bankrupt America both morally and financially. Plant the seeds for the GOP Great Depression II.

Deregulate, deregulate, deregulate.

The GOP established huge rigged casinos, with the winnings going to the “lucky” few—the GOP’s constituency of the Super Rich and huge corporations—and with the losses, countless trillions of dollars, being shouldered by U.S. taxpayers.

No level playing field existed with respect to any of the huge financial disasters of the last three decades. From the S&L scandals and bailouts of the 1980s, to government contracting fraud in Iraq, to the recent financial meltdown, to Bernard “made-off” Madoff—rigged structures are plainly visible.

This and much more is discussed in, “The Bush League of Nations: The Coalition of the Unwilling, the Bullied and the Bribed – the GOP’s War on Iraq and America,” by James A. Swanson (2008, CreateSpace Publishing, 448 pages).

Patriots everywhere can download the entire book for free at www.bushleagueofnations.com.

I ask for nothing in return, except that you perhaps use my book to help restore and build America.

Jim Swanson, Los Altos, CA
www.bushleagueofnations.com [for FREE download of entire book]

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Yes, the real estate bubble is popping, and home values are in decline. Salaries are stagnant or even shrinking, too. So I can't say Mr. Krugman has no facts on his side of the argument.

But the Fed is gushing money like there's no tomorrow. Has been for years, but they're really stepping up to the plate now. All of that money sloshing around the system will not have a deflationary effect.

Neither will a vast increase in an already astounding rate of deficit spending by the US Government.

What Mr, Krugman isn't saying, and what he surely knows to be true, is that the inflation indices themselves - in fact, just about all of the economic indices - are doctored to yield a rosier picture. Have been since Reagan. Inflation, as it is reported in the news, is considerably understated.

What do you get when you combine bubbles popping, a gushing money supply, vast deficit spending, and lying economic indicators? Hint: it's not deflation.

If this were the New York Times, the paper Mr. Krugman writes for, I'd print the answer upside down at the bottom of the comment. Alas, this is only Alternet. We must make do, make do.

[Answer: stagflation]

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Why can't we retool manufacturing here. Build a super train way that runs across country, as well as improve and add rail systems in all major cities. That would certainly create jobs. Provide tax incentives for all companies and corporations that KEEP AND CREATE JOBS HERE!
Curtail business with China, instead of being on the importing end, start creating energy that we can export and do this quickly. There are other things that can be and should be considered along with a Stimulus Package, and implemented without delay.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Until Pentagon spending is cut by a huge amount, the over 1000 foreign military bases are shut down, the economy and the Empire will implode on itself. There just isn't enough money to support it, especially when corporations refuse to pay one red cent into the Treasury. Also the private run Federal Reserve must be run by the public treasury Dept. Yes, health care for all would be a much better use of our resources, but we also must fund education and infrastructure. Until these issues are addressed, America is over, finished, kaput. Of course there will be about 5% doing great, but the other 95% will not be doing too well at all!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

We linked to this article in a post on the CA NOW blog: U.S. Economy Worst in 16 Years- Investment in Economic Recovery Can't Wait!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I guess there always is the possibility of partisanship, but there's something about this last election that was weirdly nonpartisan. More than ever these days, it seems the two parties, as parties, matter less and less. Certainly the distinctions are blurring. And then there is also the need to come together, much more so now than ever before.

So while there might be one or two or three or four who say "The Democrats, this" and "the Republicans that," it will be strange, like people clinging to a role that no longer exists for them.

The really sad thing is that no third party has come up.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

For 2 years now I've been saying, and writing letters to the editor, that we are in a depression. All the while Bush and the gang kept saying recession. I still believe we are in a depression right now.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

know how many of the comments are by persons who have read any of any of his books.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Fuck em' all and the horses they rode in on!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]