COMMENTS: 208
Bailout Passes Senate; 9 Reasons That's Bad News for You
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This bill does not effectively address the issue of what the taxpayers of our country will actually own after they invest hundreds of billions of dollars in toxic assets. This bill does not effectively address the issue of oversight because the oversight board members have all been hand picked by the Bush administration. This bill does not effectively deal with the issue of foreclosures and addressing that very serious issue, which is impacting millions of low- and moderate-income Americans in the aggressive, effective way that we should be. This bill does not effectively deal with the issue of executive compensation and golden parachutes. Under this bill, the CEOs and the Wall Street insiders will still, with a little bit of imagination, continue to make out like bandits.
This bill does not deal at all with how we got into this crisis in the first place and the need to undo the deregulatory fervor which created trillions of dollars in complicated and unregulated financial instruments such as credit default swaps and hedge funds. This bill does not address the issue that has taken us to where we are today, the concept of too big to fail. In fact, within the last several weeks we have sat idly by and watched gigantic financial institutions like the Bank of America swallow up other gigantic financial institutions like Countrywide and Merrill Lynch. Well, who is going to bail out the Bank of America if it begins to fail? There is not one word about the issue of too big to fail in this legislation at a time when that problem is in fact becoming even more serious.
This bill does not deal with the absurdity of having the fox guarding the hen house. Maybe I'm the only person in America who thinks so, but I have a hard time understanding why we are giving $700 billion to the Secretary of the Treasury, the former CEO of Goldman Sachs, who along with other financial institutions, actually got us into this problem. Now, maybe I'm the only person in America who thinks that's a little bit weird, but that is what I think.
This bill does not address the major economic crisis we face: growing unemployment, low wages, the need to create decent-paying jobs, rebuilding our infrastructure and moving us to energy efficiency and sustainable energy.
There is one issue that is even more profound and more basic than everything else that I have mentioned, and that is if a bailout is needed, if taxpayer money must be placed at risk, whose money should it be? In other words, who should be paying for this bailout which has been caused by the greed and recklessness of Wall Street operatives who have made billions in recent years?
The American people are bitter. They are angry, and they are confused. Over the last seven and a half year, since George W. Bush has been President, 6 million Americans have slipped out of the middle class and are in poverty, and today working families are lining up at emergency food shelves in order to get the food they need to feed their families. Since President Bush has been in office, median family income for working-age families has declined by over $2,000. More than seven million Americans have lost their health insurance. Over four million have lost their pensions. Consumer debt has more than doubled. And foreclosures are the highest on record. Meanwhile, the cost of energy, food, health care, college and other basic necessities has soared.
While the middle class has declined under President Bush's reckless economic policies, the people on top have never had it so good. For the first seven years of Bush's tenure, the wealthiest 400 individuals in our country saw a $670 billion increase in their wealth, and at the end of 2007 owned over $1.5 trillion in wealth. That is just 400 families, a $670 billion increase in wealth since Bush has been in office.
In our country today, we have the most unequal distribution of income and wealth of any major country on earth, with the top 1 percent earning more income than the bottom 50 percent and the top 1 percent owning more wealth than the bottom 90 percent. We are living at a time when we have seen a massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to the very wealthiest people in this country, when, among others, CEOs of Wall Street firms received unbelievable amounts in bonuses, including $39 billion in bonuses in the year 2007 alone for just the five major investment houses. We have seen the incredible greed of the financial services industry manifested in the hundreds of millions of dollars they have spent on campaign contributions and lobbyists in order to deregulate their industry so that hedge funds and other unregulated financial institutions could flourish. We have seen them play with trillions and trillions dollars in esoteric financial instruments, in unregulated industries which no more than a handful of people even understand. We have seen the financial services industry charge 30 percent interest rates on credit card loans and tack on outrageous late fees and other costs to unsuspecting customers. We have seen them engaged in despicable predatory lending practices, taking advantage of the vulnerable and the uneducated. We have seen them send out billions of deceptive solicitations to almost every mailbox in America.
Most importantly, we have seen the financial services industry lure people into mortgages they could not afford to pay, which is one of the basic reasons why we are here tonight.
In the midst of all of this, we have a bailout package which says to the middle class that you are being asked to place at risk $700 billion, which is $2,200 for every man, woman, and child in this country. You're being asked to do that in order to undo the damage caused by this excessive Wall Street greed. In other words, the "Masters of the Universe," those brilliant Wall Street insiders who have made more money than the average American can even dream of, have brought our financial system to the brink of collapse. Now, as the American and world financial systems teeter on the edge of a meltdown, these multimillionaires are demanding that the middle class, which has already suffered under Bush's disastrous economic policies, pick up the pieces that they broke. That is wrong, and that is something that I will not support.
If we are going to bail out Wall Street, it should be those people who have caused the problem, those people who have benefited from Bush's tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires, those people who have taken advantage of deregulation, those people are the people who should pick up the tab, and not ordinary working people. I introduced an amendment which gave the Senate a very clear choice. We can pay for this bailout of Wall Street by asking people all across this country, small businesses on Main Street, homeowners on Maple Street, elderly couples on Oak Street, college students on Campus Avenue, working families on Sunrise Lane, we can ask them to pay for this bailout. That is one way we can go. Or, we can ask the people who have gained the most from the spasm of greed, the people whose incomes have been soaring under president bush, to pick up the tab.
I proposed to raise the tax rate on any individual earning $500,000 a year or more or any family earning $1 million a year or more by 10 percent. That increase in the tax rate, from 35 percent to 45 percent, would raise more than $300 billion in the next five years, almost half the cost of the bailout. If what all the supporters of this legislation say is correct, that the government will get back some of its money when the market calms down and the government sells some of the assets it has purchased, then $300 billion should be sufficient to make sure that 99.7 percent of taxpayers do not have to pay one nickel for this bailout.
Most of my constituents did not earn a $38 million bonus in 2005 or make over $100 million in total compensation in three years, as did Henry Paulson, the current secretary of the Treasury, and former CEO of Goldman Sachs. Most of my constituents did not make $354 million in total compensation over the past five years as did Richard Fuld of Lehman Brothers. Most of my constituents did not cash out $60 million in stock after a $29 billion bailout for Bear Stearns after that failing company was bought out by J.P. Morgan Chase. Most of my constituents did not get a $161 million severance package as E. Stanley O'Neill, former CEO Merrill Lynch did.
Last week I placed on my Web site, www.sanders.senate.gov, a letter to Secretary Paulson in support of my amendment. It said that it should be those people best able to pay for this bailout, those people who have made out like bandits in recent years, they should be asked to pay for this bailout. It should not be the middle class. To my amazement, some 48,000 people cosigned this petition, and the names keep coming in. The message is very simple: "We had nothing to do with causing this bailout. We are already under economic duress. Go to those people who have made out like bandits. Go to those people who have caused this crisis and ask them to pay for the bailout."
The time has come to assure our constituents in Vermont and all over this country that we are listening and understand their anger and their frustration. The time has come to say that we have the courage to stand up to all of the powerful financial institution lobbyists who are running amok all over the Capitol building, from the Chamber of Commerce to the American Bankers Association, to the Business Roundtable, all of these groups who make huge campaign contributions, spend all kinds of money on lobbyists, they're here loud and clear. They don't want to pay for this bailout, they want middle America to pay for it.
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Posted by: Direct Democracy on Oct 1, 2008 10:00 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml
FREE AMERICA
REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY
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» RE: For All The Good It Will Do You
Posted by: Rolomax
» RE: For All The Good It Will Do You
Posted by: Spot
» RE: turning off their emails
Posted by: sasquuatch55
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Oct 1, 2008 11:42 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Keep up the great work. I just wish there were more like you.
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» RE: My Man Bernie
Posted by: kwalla
» RE: My Man Bernie
Posted by: exasperated
» RE: My Man Bernie
Posted by: bluebirdella
» Bernie, Taxed or not they can't get "blood out of a Stone"! I claim Exempt!
Posted by: common intelligence
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Posted by: Jeanne on Oct 2, 2008 12:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Alternative
Posted by: kitty1967
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Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Oct 2, 2008 12:07 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To think any flavor of Wall Street rigged “bailout” will solve the economy and accountability for it much less what really counts at America owns the thought process of a fool. And a serial fool at that.
The FASCIST parasite corporate crime ruling class that created this bloody mess is literally banking on citizen sheep to stay home and let blood money BS swindler "experts" that sold them down the river to do it again.
If that happens, America is doomed and deserves to be.
“You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out.”
President Andrew Jackson (the 7th President publicly pledging to defeat international monopolist bankers to their face in his speech. Jackson was the last president to vanquish a global cartel in its plans for a privately owned “U.S.” central bank. Quote 1832)
“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the government of the U.S. ever since the days of Andrew Jackson. History depicts Andrew Jackson as the last truly honorable and incorruptible American president.”
President FDR (on de facto Fascist rule in a letter to corporate monopoly charlatan “Colonel” Edward M. House, co-founder of the Council on Foreign Relations and political fixer for the ruling class. House also handled President Wilson. 11/21/ l933)
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» RE: Dishonorable Andrew Jackson
Posted by: americansheep
» RE: Dishonorable Andrew Jackson
Posted by: DaBear
» Honorable Andrew Jackson
Posted by: PointMan
» FDR didn't think so. Jackson had issues with people of Color (so did ALL the founders)
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» RE: FDR didn't think so. Jackson had issues with people of Color (so did ALL the founders)
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: FDR didn't think so. Jackson had issues with people of Color (so did ALL the founders)
Posted by: PointMan
» RE: FDR didn't think so. Jackson had issues with people of Color (so did ALL the founders)
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: FDR didn't think so. Jackson had issues with people of Color (so did ALL the founders)
Posted by: PointMan
» RE: "(especially ones with grade school spelling skills)"
Posted by: channing
» RE: FDR didn't think so. Jackson had issues with people of Color (so did ALL the founders)
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: There you go EncinoM, defending the elite to your dying breath
Posted by: channing
» RE: FDR didn't think so. Jackson had issues with people of Color (so did ALL the founders)
Posted by: PointMan
» RE: FDR didn't think so. Jackson had issues with people of Color (so did ALL the founders)
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: FDR didn't think so. Jackson had issues with people of Color (so did ALL the founders)
Posted by: EncinoM
Comments are closed-
Posted by: daphrey on Oct 2, 2008 12:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
JP Morgan
Goldman Sachs
Bank of America
Citigroup
We'd still own the toxic waste, but we'd own the equity as well. Once the mess was cleared off we could make some money back by re-listing the companies.
Just another variant on why the current plan is such a stinker.
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» RE: Since we're gonna spend $700,000,000,000 anyway
Posted by: richholland
» RE: Since we're gonna spend $700,000,000,000 anyway
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» Thanks!
Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Thanks!
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Thanks!
Posted by: photon's feather
» BUY JP Morgan Goldman Sachs Bank of America Citigroup... All for only $700B
Posted by: channing
» Speaking of Bank Of America ...
Posted by: TarryFaster
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Posted by: mmckinl on Oct 2, 2008 12:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now we know the answer. It's because, behind the scenes, Henry Paulson and Co. were working out a deal to dump the whole trillion dollar mess on the US taxpayer. That's what this whole $700 billion boondoggle is all about; wiping out the massive debts that were generated in the biggest incident of fraud in history. Rep Brad Sherman explained it like this last night to Larry Kudlow:
"It (The bill) provides hundreds of billions of dollars of bailouts to foreign investors."
Yes, ladies and gentlemen, we are paying for Wall Streets illegal sales of these toxic assets overseas.
Not One Dime!
Screwed by Goldman Sacks Again !
In case you haven't heard the CEO of Goldman was in the room when AIG got bailed out ... Why is this important ? That AIG bailout saved Goldman Sacks a cool 20 billion dollars. It only cost the tax payers 85 billion in loans.
Wall Street's Infinite Sleaze:
Keep calling Congress and tell them how you feel about paying hundreds of billions to Clean Up Wall Streets Crimes ...
Zip Code Link
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» Why not have the CEO of Goldman Sachs there?
Posted by: photon's feather
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Posted by: georgiaorwell on Oct 2, 2008 1:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No matter how you spin it, the Senate plan sticks it to the middle class and is a 'top down' bail out (which they're spinning now as 'rescue'). I have been an Obama supporter, but I cannot and will not 'buy into' the crap that the Senate bail out plan is going to help everyday Americans because it does not. I would like to see Obama get behind the DiFasio proposal - it will show what he truly understands about the economy - same with McCain.
C'mon, folks, this is just some more political bull that's being promoted at the expense of taxpayers. I have definitely and irrevocably given up on the Senate Dems - you can't tell the difference between most of them and the Repugs. This is one time I admire the Repubs who have stood against the present bail out plans. Bottom line - if the present Senate bail out plan goes through, the Congressional Senators and Reps who support it should not be voted back into office.
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» RE: Let's get real
Posted by: login@bugmenot.com
» RE: Let's get real
Posted by: georgiaorwell
» On Democracy Now, Kucinich said to Goodman:
Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Let's get real
Posted by: herronsmith
» RE: Let's get real
Posted by: Ayuh!
» Change you can believe in my ass!
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» But Obama says it's OK
Posted by: eeezzz
» *I* can tell the difference
Posted by: sln70
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Drume on Oct 2, 2008 3:08 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» From Thomas:
Posted by: photon's feather
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Posted by: rancespergl on Oct 2, 2008 3:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm barely employed despite a college education and high skills.
The rich people owe it to us, the America that gave them their fortune.
MAKE THE RICH PAY.
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» RE: Make the Rich Pay
Posted by: helenahanbasquet
» RE: Make the Rich Pay
Posted by: walldodger1969
» RE: Make the Rich Pay
Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Make the Rich Pay
Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Make the Rich Pay
Posted by: Ethical1
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Posted by: socialpsych on Oct 2, 2008 3:25 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Bend over, folks
Posted by: cellorelio
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Posted by: Godfather89 on Oct 2, 2008 3:56 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its great to see most of the real Americans united against the bailout but you know what? This is only one of a few things America should be united behind.
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» RE: The Price To Pay...
Posted by: HoboHomo
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Posted by: whoopingcrone on Oct 2, 2008 4:44 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He sells knick-knacks ‘til they’re done
Chorus:
With a knick-knack, paddy whack,
Gives a bank a loan;
This old man comes rolling home.
This old man, he buys two;
He sells knick-knacks five to two
Chorus:
This old man, he buys three;
He sells knick-knacks from our trees
Chorus:
This old man comes rolling home.
This old man, he plays four;
Pastes his knick-knacks on our doors
Chorus:
This old man, he plays five;
His investments take a dive.
Chorus:
This old man, he plays six;
Knick-knacks nothing but a bunch of tricks.
Chorus:
This old man, he rolls seven;
He’ll play knick-knack on the way to heaven'
Chorus:
This old man, he plays eight;
Selling knick-knacks early and late.
Chorus:
This old man, he buys nine;
Sells his knick-knacks down the line
Chorus:
This old man, he buys ten;
Tries to knick-knack once again;
Stop his knick-knacks, paddy whacks,
Let him own his loans, Then this old man can’t get your home.
NO BAIL 4 THE WALL STREET WEASELS.
see the go-with pics at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/digilager"
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Posted by: Vic Fedorov on Oct 2, 2008 4:47 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let the people discuss what makes sense to them, what they want from each other.
Our current economy is not meant to be, don't save it.
Too many people don't actually produce anything.
All those houses built approved by local officials, when local officials are neither state nor people, violated the tenth amendment's reservations of power for the state or the people.
Our founders intended for free assemblies as a form of local self-rule by the people. These free assemblies should discuss the economy. If you asked the people, they would say they don't like this economy.
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Posted by: 911FalseFlag on Oct 2, 2008 4:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Predatory lending, which used to be the province of criminal loan sharks, is now the norm in the lending industry in the US.
Today's banking crisis is the THIRD trillion dollar plus US-caused financial meltdown in the last twenty years.
Each one of these crises came into being through the same basic mechanism...the fraudulent over-valuing of financial assets by Wall Street - with a "wink and a nod" (and sometimes a lot more) from the White House and Congress.
The fraudulently valued assets stimulate the economy, impart the illusion of health and then, inevitably, the fraud goes too far and the whole house of card comes painfully crashing back to earth.
Go to my website, www.911insidejob.net and read many articles and watch videos on the well planned takedown of the US dollar by the Bush White House and the Federal Reserve Bank.
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» FYI
Posted by: TarryFaster
» RE: FYI
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: What valuable contributions you make EncinoM!
Posted by: channing
» RE: What valuable contributions you make EncinoM!
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: What a "real" world you behold EncinoM
Posted by: channing
» RE: What a "real" world you behold EncinoM
Posted by: EncinoM
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Posted by: Erin on Oct 2, 2008 4:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: RedFoxOne on Oct 2, 2008 5:01 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
JIff
Online Privacy when it Counts
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Posted by: solrev on Oct 2, 2008 5:32 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: So what if the parastiic american or rather anglosaxon finance is destryed?good for humanity .
Posted by: avatar_singh
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Posted by: Karl.Ben on Oct 2, 2008 5:35 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe I'l go buy a $1 million house and see if I can't get Pelosi to pay for it!
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» RE: Gun down Pelosi please.
Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» RE: Back to the days of welfare abuse!
Posted by: phatkhat
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Posted by: photon's feather on Oct 2, 2008 5:46 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(such as Feingold and Tester) and filibustered?
We needed more than 25 "No" votes.
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» RE: Thank you for your vote, Senator Sanders, but...
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Thank you for your vote, Senator Sanders, but...
Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Thank you for your vote, Senator Sanders, but...
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Thank you for your vote, Senator Sanders, but...
Posted by: photon's feather
Comments are closed-
Posted by: nochicagoboys on Oct 2, 2008 5:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No, Senator, you're most definitely not the only person in America who believes we're all being railroaded into oblivion. It's apparent to me that like the Bush administration, our legislative body, save for a few brave people like yourself, is a den of thieves. Thank you for all that you do, not only for your home state of Vermont, but for all of the citizens of these United States -- whether they're aware of it or not. You're a true patriot, Sir, and there are not enough like you.
AlterNet readers: For a good comprehensive look at how the vote in the Senate looked last night, view the map published in this morning's online New York Times. Put a name to a face, and then, all of us, e-mail or call the traitors who voted to push this bill full of pig shit, and let them know we're totally disappointed and disgusted with their sellout of the American people to the moneyed-elite of Wall Street.
Thank you, again, Senator Sanders.
And...thank you, John. You were an inspiration to millions. Your work applies more, now, than ever.
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» Excellent map!
Posted by: ebishirl
» RE: excellent map!
Posted by: nochicagoboys
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Posted by: Nedtheredhead on Oct 2, 2008 5:55 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Think again America.
The financial market is not inclusive to the US alone, the money that was spent in this debacle came from ALL SECTIONS OF THE GLOBE. The money that is being repaid by the US Government, taxpayer money, is to prevent INTERNATIONAL INVESTORS FROM WITHDRAWING THEIR INVESTMENTS AND CRASHING THE AMERICAN ECONOMY COMPLETELY.
If, as some suggest, the Congress defeats this bill, and little to no tax money is poured into save what is left of the US economy, it will get catastrophically worse. The invested money will be withdrawn by Europe, China, Russia, South East Asia, including Australia and New Zealand etc, and instead poured into another currency, probably the Euro, and other countries, such as China, Russia, India and Brazil.
Even if this bill gets passed and US taxpayer money is poured into save what can be saved, it will only serve to stabilise on the short term. Radical action will have to be taken to assure the big...overseas...investors that the US is a safe place to re invest in.
Look at the banks of other nations. Look at how they are tumbling. Look at how their Governments are topping them up to prevent them going to the wall. Do you really think those Governments will continue to support American investment without some serious changes to the way America has been fiscally trading till now?
This problem is not just big America, it is humongous.
I wish you well.
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» Fuck globalism
Posted by: socialpsych
» RE: Fuck globalism
Posted by: channing
» My thoughts exactly
Posted by: socialpsych
» RE: My thoughts exactly
Posted by: Spot
» RE: My thoughts exactly
Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: My thoughts exactly
Posted by: channing
» RE: My thoughts exactly
Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: My thoughts exactly
Posted by: channing
» RE: My thoughts exactly
Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: My thoughts exactly
Posted by: Von
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Peter Mackrael on Oct 2, 2008 6:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Recent bail-outs have already cost the US taxpayers about $700bn. In addition, the government recently provided $700bn to European banks with no effect on liquidity. If this bill is approved, these interventions will increase US debt to about $12 trillion. Foreign lenders now hold about 40% of US debt. This bill may reassure them for a short while until they see that US debt continues to increase while GDP declines. This bill may delay but will certainly not prevent a recession in the US. This bail-out program will severely limit spending on social programs for many years to come!
Instead of solving the liquidity crisis, this bill will transfer $700bn from the poorest 90% (working taxpayers) to enrich the wealthiest 10% who hold debt derivatives and shares in these investment banks. Which debt will we buy and at what piece? This will provide a grand opportunity for graft and fraud. It will be impossible to establish a fair value for this worthless debt paper but consulting fees will be huge. While this bill transfers public wealth to political friends of both parties in the Wall Street community, it does nothing to prevent further consolidation and restructuring by US banks. These banks will soon demand more!
Here is one obvious solution. The five big investment banks: Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch, Lehman Brothers, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley have recently morphed into regular banks. In effect, these investment banks have increased their asset base while transferring their bad debt assets to commercial banks. If these new banks require additional liquidity, existing regulations allow them sell assets to private investors to raise additional capital. In addition, they can borrow from the Fed, their lender of last resort. This liquidity emergency is exactly what the Fed was created for. If these banks are still unable to obtain enough liquidity to provide consumer loans and adequate operating capital to US businesses, then and only then should the federal government buy or establish a national bank for this purpose.
Meanwhile we need to re-establish and enforce investment banking regulations. Also we need an independent investigation to understand how and why the investment banks and government got us into this liquidity crisis so it can be prevented in future. It is possible that stock manipulation and outright fraud has been committed in recent months.
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Posted by: TarryFaster on Oct 2, 2008 6:38 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: DrSuess on Oct 2, 2008 6:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fact is the laws did change- for the worse. The rules of good sense went out with the governmental regulations designed to protect the “little people”. Businesses were given a free pass to do anything free of the fear of government regulators. Businesses did what they do best- make money. But it was in a soul less and stupid way.
By throwing away all the rules of common sense and traditional practice they destroyed their own market. Banks that lend money to people who cannot pay- deserve their fate. Why would anyone encourage people to lie on their applications?
However, the real problem was that the banks lent to people telling the truth- but structured the loans in a predatory way- so that there was no chance that the people could repay. Who can possibly ever repay a 30% interest credit card? The loan is structured to create perpetual debt. It is like the old song about owing “my soul the company store”.
I recently watched the movie “Amazing Grace” about the end to the slave trade in Great Britain. All the arguments for slavery were financial ones. Slavery was “good” business. It was very profitable. As I watched those arguments for slavery- I realized that slavery is good business- but it is not good social policy.
Under Bush we moved to a place where “good business” overrode good social policy- and now we have a colossal mess- even for the businesses.
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Posted by: ellie on Oct 2, 2008 6:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
hey, one big question... when I was in grad school and had 450 pages to read overnight was totally out of it the next day and didn't remember 9/10th of what I slogged through... how does the average senator get that much read time and time to digest the ramifications for mark up in the first place???
bad bills make bad laws... this one is a whopper of band aids and innuendos... slow down congress, remember elections are right around the corner, or are the elections the reason to get this bill out for signing before regime change??? who is yanking who's chain with threats???
thanks senator sanders, you seem to be the only same one in house right now...
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» Most senators don't read the bills. They rely on the corporate media to control them.
Posted by: maxpayne
» Wasn't that the point of this manipulated 'crisis'?
Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: 3 pages = 450 pages... $700 bil = $850 bil and climbing...
Posted by: badkitty
Comments are closed-
Posted by: deborama on Oct 2, 2008 6:50 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: the only decent man in the US Senate tells it like it is
Posted by: maxpayne
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Posted by: herronsmith on Oct 2, 2008 6:54 AM
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» RE: Thank you but it won't happen
Posted by: Spot
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Posted by: GrannyBgood on Oct 2, 2008 7:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Funny how all this rush coincides with the first time our troops are being stationed HERE (YESTERDAY, Oct 1st!) to patrol OUR streets "In case of civil unrest" since the days of the Civil War, after which they passed the Posse Comitas Act to outlaw quartering troops in the homeland (No doubt wiped away by Bush's Military Commissions Act of this summer!).
So WHAT are they planning for US that would cause "Civil Unrest"? (besides this huge rip-off!)
Another Tri-fecta for Bush, a canceled election, or just another STOLEN one?
Is THIS the new "October Surprise", or just setting us up for a worse one?
Thankyou, Bernie Sanders, for pointing out who really needs to pay for this "protection racket"!
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Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 2, 2008 7:08 AM
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» RE: AND THAT'S WHY WE NEED 3RD PARTY PROGRESSIVE/LIBERAL INDYS !!!!
Posted by: HoboHomo
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Posted by: photon's feather on Oct 2, 2008 7:11 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(Talk about a biased title.)
This particular defector is California Rep David Dreier - and he's taking the bribe offered by the Senate: a few ineffective band-aids for Main Street.
CAPITOL HILL SWITCHBOARD
TOLL FREE NUMBERS:
1-800-473-6711
1-800-828-0498
Once more, the list of who to thank and who to spank:
Roll Call 674
Please also direct their attention to the comment by Kucinich to Goodman on Democracy Now, September 29.
Democracy Now
Kucinich was told by a former head of the FDIC that the Bush administration had been forcing banks to maintain a higher cash reserve than normal, which naturally adds to constricting the flow of money. (If you read the transcript, you'll find the comment in the last statement by Kucinich just above/before the break. An additional minor comment also follows the break, if I recall correctly.)
Please tell whoever you call to tell the White House to stop manipulating/exacerbating the crisis!
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Posted by: Ayuh! on Oct 2, 2008 7:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2. Rank all candidates who gain ballot access in your state, without regard to their chances of winning.
3. Pay attention to polls in your state.
4. If your state is predicted to be a red or swing state, vote for the Democrat; if it's safely blue, vote for your first choice.
5. Change America!
It requires a bit of work, which is why most voters are party loyalists, which is why nothing ever changes. There's no need to cost the Democrats any elections; if people in safe states would vote for the more progressive third-party candidates the Democrats might get nervous and start becoming more progressive.
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» RE: Voting 101
Posted by: Ayuh!
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Posted by: cynyk on Oct 2, 2008 7:39 AM
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Posted by: eeezzz on Oct 2, 2008 7:48 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: We must obey Obama
Posted by: Spot
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Posted by: Illiteratilumen on Oct 2, 2008 8:01 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Barack had lost my vote
Posted by: xvictor
» so what are you going to do about it?
Posted by: wefearwhatwedontunderstand
» Vote your conscience
Posted by: DCostello2
» Political Hedonism
Posted by: pdxjoe
» I've read your post several times and I still don't understand it.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» If you could point out...
Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: so what are you going to do about it? 3rd Party!
Posted by: left_libertarian
» Funny yet sadly true. :=(
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Funny yet sadly true. :=(
Posted by: HoboHomo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: grkjr on Oct 2, 2008 8:08 AM
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Posted by: pdxjoe on Oct 2, 2008 8:18 AM
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There is a significant group of Americans, and not just Wall Street fat-cats or Hedge Fund attorneys, but people who live down the street from me and many of you who want this bailout to pass. These people are worried often enough of the same thing---THEIR investments and, by extension, THEIR retirement.
These people have been given to suck at the teet of speculative capital for long enough that they would, along with a number of their congressmen, do anything not to lose the illusion that capitalism works.
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» RE: One Thing This Bill Does Address
Posted by: EncinoM
» Savings vs. Investment
Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: Savings vs. Investment
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Savings vs. Investment
Posted by: badkitty
» Have Your Cake and Eat It Too
Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: Have Your Cake and Eat It Too
Posted by: EncinoM
» No Problem
Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: No Problem
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: No Problem
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: No Problem
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: One Thing This Bill Does Address
Posted by: Spot
» RE: One Thing This Bill Does Address
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: One Thing This Bill Does Address
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: One Thing This Bill Does Address
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: One Thing This Bill Does Address
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: One Thing This Bill Does Address
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: One Thing This Bill Does Address
Posted by: maxpayne
Comments are closed-
Posted by: grindermonkey on Oct 2, 2008 8:42 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Peter DeFazio (D-Ore)has a better idea. Set up a graduated tax system for Wall Street that sets tax rates commensurate with the risk of each type of financial instrument. These revenues could protect the government from future disasters. Let's reinstate a Glass Steagal arrangement that separates Wall Street speculation from Main Street banking and finance. Just as the Constitution separates Church from State, the congress should create an impermeable wall between Wall Street and Main Street to protect personal assets from larcenous, frivolous speculation and derivatives that the SEC seems unable to regulate.
CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN AND TELL HIM THAT YOU WANT YOUR MONEY AND GOVERNMENT BACK.
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Posted by: xvictor on Oct 2, 2008 8:43 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"It's easier being a dictator."
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» RE: "It easier being a dictator." Yes, in a pseudo democracy...
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: Gravitas on Oct 2, 2008 9:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: X-POLYGAMIST WIFE on Oct 2, 2008 9:31 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Watch the video:
BANKING ON HEAVEN .COM
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Posted by: Blueprelude on Oct 2, 2008 9:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» who is?
Posted by: wefearwhatwedontunderstand
» RE: who is?.... single issue voter?! Jeezis, drink all the koolaid, why don'tcha
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: who is?
Posted by: Blueprelude
» RE: who is?
Posted by: left_libertarian
» RE: No Surprise Obama Voted For It!
Posted by: Democritus
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Posted by: Landbaron on Oct 2, 2008 9:58 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: ventually the workinking class will be working till they're
Posted by: DaBear
» Re: Where the fuck have you been?
Posted by: Landbaron
» Find work you really love to do - or become a Wall Street Wanker!
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: hoorah on Oct 2, 2008 10:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some people fail to realize that past and current legislation has already failed to prevent this current recession. And yet they choose to gleefully believe that life will get better for the rest of us if we bail out the crooks who caused this economic crisis. And once will not be enough. They will continue with their cheating, stealing, embezzling, lying and scheming with the blessings of the U.S. government. Only this time (through "new and improved legislation" in their favor), they'll have a steady flow of taxpayer funded financial backing to help keep them afloat. I suppose that after that river runs dry. Those of us who have managed to hang on to our homes, cars and other assets will face government seizures. There is no one alive who can convince me that "taxpayer-funded corporate welfare" will save the U.S. economy.
I didn't see anything in the previous bill that would benefit any non-corporate entity in the United States. Supposedly in the U.S. Senate's revised version of the "Corporate-Welfare Bill" (CWB), bank accounts will be insured at or up to around $250,000. Great for those who need that amount of monetary insurance from the FDIC.
Similar to what Senator Sanders has stated. Neither the past nor the revised "CORPORATE BAIL-OUT BILL" is of any benefit to non-wealthy Americans. It will accomplish nothing to prevent unsound/unethical business practices from occurring in the future. Furthermore. From what I hear. President Bush nor the members of congress have consulted with economists, prior to rushing to pass the "Finish Bankrupting The American Citizens" bill (FBTAC). I'm sure that many members of congress want to be re-elected to office this November. Realize this. U.S. citizens may wisely vote you out of office this time around. And that would be poetic justice regardless of how some of you will vote on any bill from now until election day! Nancy was right. "The Party Is Over." Time to pack up and go home.
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» RE: WE'VE GOT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE ECONOMY (PART 2)
Posted by: hoorah
» where are all the real economists?
Posted by: wefearwhatwedontunderstand
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Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Oct 2, 2008 10:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» but we need to stop the worse of two evils now
Posted by: wefearwhatwedontunderstand
» RE: but we need to stop the worse of two evils now
Posted by: Spot
» RE: but we need to stop the worse of two evils now - NO
Posted by: left_libertarian
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ashbaines on Oct 2, 2008 10:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All week everybody has been whining about the $700 "defeat" in the house...
The Fed injected $630 billion on Monday just before the vote... Google Bloomberg Fed $630 billion.
then on Wednesday the chimp signed a bill for the EXACT same amount... even my best informed friends didn't know - or thought it was the same monies...
It most certainly was NOT -- they've spent 1 trillion 230 billion spent since monday
and all we are hearing about is the next 700 billion.....
when does the shootin start?
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» I'm surprised they even ran this one by us...
Posted by: eeezzz
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Posted by: DaBear on Oct 2, 2008 10:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the mountains, they'd just burn down your fucking barn or blowup your car. Mebbe it's time for that. non-violence hasn't worked... we've gotten screwed worse for all our marchin' and bitchin'. Maybe that's who we're really dealing with is a bunch of thugs. Thugs only understand one thing, the fist.
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» What Would Violent Revolution Look Like...
Posted by: pdxjoe
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Posted by: janvdb on Oct 2, 2008 10:56 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Disaggregate the toxic mortgage backed securities and all their derivative products. Release the value of the underlying mortgages, most of which are sound, from their destructive Wall Street packaging. This would improve bank solvency. Then, use taxpayer money to buy new stock in these banks, recapitalizing them only as necessary.
Treasury should compile a list of problem bond issuances and all derivities thereof. It should give all current owners 48 hours to identify their holdings of said problem bond tranches. Meanwhile, Treasury should unbundle these packages of bonds down to their constituent mortgages. Then, Treasury should distribute the underlying mortgages to the current owners of these products on a prorata basis reflecting the estimated value of their current holdings.
The underlying mortgages are easily valued using standard software for calculating the discounted present value of a Deed of Trust (DoT). Missed payments take a specified nick from the value of the DoT. Mortgages near or in foreclosure can be valued at the independently appraised value of the underlying real estate.
Even the sickest real estate in the sickest parts of California and Florida is selling to vultures. It has a price.
The total of the discounted present value of the constituent mortgages and foreclosed-on real estate underlying a specific bond tranche is the value of that bond tranche and all its derivatives.
The underlying mortgages in each bond should be ranked by quality (determined by payment history and loan-to-value ratio) and distributed to the holders of the various "slices" of the bundle based on the risk level of the "slice" they bought.
The riskmongers who bought high-risk "equity slices," for instance, should get the stuff now in foreclosure.
Mortgages with untenable specifications should be converted to 30-year fixed-rate notes before redistribution; this could prevent many foreclosures.
As for the most exotic products, something, which is “difficult to value,” and “illiquid”, is worthless. Those who produce and buy this garbage should deal with the consequences of their own actions.
Unbundling would release significant increases in value, possibly enough to re-capitalize most holders of the products. All original bonds and all derivities based on them would be made null and void.
Re-do corporate books with these new values.
Then, Paulsen would be required use taxpayer money to buy newly issued stock in those banks which are still short of capital and too big to fail, at current stock prices (without releasing the results of the revaluation). He would be empowered only to bring required reserve ratios to a specified level, and this only for loan-making institutions.
Taxpayers would almost certainly make money over 5 years.
Buy no toxic assets!!
Remember, the point of this exercise is to preserve the flow of loans to Main Street. Investment banks and hedge funds don't make loans, so let them fail.
Even at 8% unemployment, something like 95% of US mortgage payments will continue to be made. The vast majority of US mortgages are still solid.
The individual Deeds of Trust or Mortgages inside these ugly wraps are going to continue to produce payment income in the vast majority of cases, even in a depression.
It is the packaging, slapped on by Wall Street, which is destroying the value of these DoTs.
Looking forward, let's not package mortgages. They are too diverse and need closer management.
Jan VanDenBerg
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Posted by: firewashington on Oct 2, 2008 11:32 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I keep telling them to go with the Kucinich plan but they won't listen. What can you do if your representatives refuse to listen to you?
I am outraged about our worthless government. We all pay taxes but how many of us get a return on our taxes? In L.A. we know that our tax dollars don't go to roads, water or clean air. The TERMINATOR just vetoed the health reform bill and doesn't care about what the people want either.
We need to fire everyone in Washington who votes for the senate bailout plan which does not benefit the taxpayers but only the criminal wealthy who probably won't see one day in prison.
So many of us have contacted our representatives about the executive compensation issue. If you look at the 450 page bill on c-span.org and do a search under "executive compensation", you'll see there is a couple of paragraphs of rubish....just language that is thrown in there that means absolutely nothing. It's just put in the bill so they can say that the bill adressed the issue which it does NOT!!
If this thing passes, the only other alternative is to refuse to pay taxes to line the pockets of the rich and the wars lords.
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» RE: Sick of this Corrupt Government
Posted by: Landbaron
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Posted by: Democritus on Oct 2, 2008 11:46 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm disappointed in Obama for playing it safe. It provides evidence for the claim that he can give a pretty speech but does little else. As for McCain, it's typical behavior from a man who calls himself a maverick but votes with the rest of the branded stock when it counts.
Let's hope the House declines to go along with the Senate. Let's hope they take this pig to the slaughterhouse. If not, we're the ones whose bacon gets stolen once again by the big-money banking interests.
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Posted by: yoma on Oct 2, 2008 12:28 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: GLOMO on Oct 2, 2008 1:06 PM
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» Only 'Following Orders'
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Oct 2, 2008 1:19 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also tried calling the phone number listed on the page, rings but no answer.
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» RE: house.gov website/email is swamped
Posted by: Spot
» He lives in Nebraska ! How can you expect him to ride a bike to Washington ?
Posted by: maxpayne
» thanks Max!
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: house.gov website/email is swamped
Posted by: badkitty
» badkitty--got my message through thanks to your advice!
Posted by: zooeyhall
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Posted by: Cathyc on Oct 2, 2008 3:17 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Can I come live with you?
Posted by: eeezzz
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Posted by: opmoc on Oct 2, 2008 3:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And I slowly get up to speed and read some really interesting stuff posted below...but also take immediate action to illustrate the truth contained below
My son has a rapidly growing business but has recently had some accidents that were nothing whatsoever to do with his business but did have some adverse effects
So he takes remedial action and actually succeeds in getting his banks support...
So I says to him - what is the total amount of your debts (not including what he already owes me) and he told me (eventually)
It was significantly more than he paid for the almost identical sports car that he had just bought to replace the one's who's pistons he had disolved.
So I nearly doubled it
(his total debt)
And said I want it all repaying with interest on exactly the same terms of the original loan.
He is 20 years old and now owes me about $20,000 US Dollars including interest
But the Bank is now PAYING him Interest
Until he spends it all to grow his business even faster
Bankers are Wankers and should be treated as Water Utilities
Extract from "The Great Bank Robbery of 2008"
http://mises.org/story/3132
which linked to the following extract
http://thecurrent.theatlantic.com/
archives/2008/09/not-buying-it.php
" So what's special about banks [that they deserve a bailout]? According to what I keep reading, it's that without banks, nobody can borrow, and the economy grinds to a halt.
Well, let's think about that. Banks don't lend their own money; they lend other people's (their depositors' and their stockholders'). Just because the banks disappear doesn't mean the lenders will. Borrowers will still want to borrow and lenders will still want to lend. The only question is whether they'll be able to find each other.
… [A]s any user of match.com can tell you, the technology for finding partners has improved since [the 1930s]. When a firm wants to raise capital, why can't it just sell bonds over the web? Or issue new stock? Or approach one of the hedge funds that seem to be swimming in cash? Or borrow abroad?
… I'm not sure these big Wall Street banks are really necessary, and I'm not sure we'd miss them much if they were gone. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but if so, I think it should be incumbent on Messrs. Bernanke, Paulson and above all Bush to explain what it is."
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Posted by: fanny666 on Oct 2, 2008 3:21 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: avatar_singh on Oct 2, 2008 3:37 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bailout fraud October 2, 2008, 13:28
Bailout fraud
The $700 Bln bailout is not about US cash. The U.S. is a debtor nation. The cash for the bailout has to be borrowed, primarily from the Japanese and Chinese.
According to one person I've spoken to who knows the top Japan and China banking regulators, they are not happy about the U.S. p***ing their money up the wall.
The better informed congressmen have lines of communication to the Chinese & Japanese and know they can't sell it.
Bush in Tuesday's speech insisted the toxic assets could, if held for some years, be sold at a profit.
That's plain rubbish. If that was the case, there would be no need for a bailout. Banks could just sit on their assets until they recover in value. The problem is, they were so wildly overvalued, they are not going to recover in value.
How were they so wildly overvalued. You won't read it in the FT or hear it on the BBC but clearly the answer is lies and fraud.
Even more important
This is not a liquidity crisis. On Tuesday night, European banks deposited well over 100 Billion euros at the ECB. The banks were not prepared to leave their money for one night in a retail bank. Perhaps, they know something we don't?
If the banks deposited E100 Bln there is no shortage of cash. The point is they won't lend it. Not to each other, not to companies, not to home buyers, except at rates which make a mockery of the word 'lending'.
This is a default crisis. Banks and large corporations are going to default. The banks know that. The public do not yet.
What is the answer
Hank Paulson, the dour looking ex-Goldman Sachs trader worth $500 Mln, says there is no alternative to buying the banks failed betting slips.
There are several alternatives. One is to let the Japanese and Chinese buy the US's failed investment banks. They already own large chunks but politically the US cannot stomach Asia buying the Ivy League banks.
Barter their assets. In 1998 the IMF told Russia that it should not bail out its banks. Ten years later the IMF is encouraging the US to do just that. One rule for the emerging markets, another for the Masters of the Universe.
Russia dealt with illiquid banks by knocking their heads together and forcing them to swap assets at knockdown prices. Washington does not have the balls for that. It proposes using taxpayers money to buy assets the banks don't want. It is a recapitalisation of the banks by stealth and lie.
God help us.
By Mark Gay, RT
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» RE: ussia and the world understand this bail out fraud more than many americans.
Posted by: avatar_singh
» avatar_singh - You are probably more right than I realised - Us British are Cnuts
Posted by: opmoc
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Posted by: Drume on Oct 2, 2008 3:57 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can someone please respond asap?
Direct me to a web site, anything...
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» RE: Practicle Time Sensitive Question: Please answer
Posted by: badkitty
» RE: Practicle Time Sensitive Question: Please answer
Posted by: Drume
» RE: Practicle Time Sensitive Question: Please answer
Posted by: badkitty
Comments are closed-
Posted by: TREEGUY on Oct 2, 2008 4:04 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I tell you what lets just roll back to when bush entered office and erase everything he has done.
I am fed up (no pun intented).
National Id's (rfid chips)
Homeland security (dismantle it)
Get out of Iraq. (we are just pissing people off by being there).
Let the rich feed themselves.
I am sorry for all americans who suffered under this administration, and prior administrations.
But enough is enough, I want my country back
I want my constitution back.
It's time to rise to the occasion.
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Posted by: InsertNameHere on Oct 2, 2008 4:15 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Democratic establishment has enabled every infringement on rights, attack on the middle class and illegal move the Republicans have made in the last eight years and with this bailout, how much more naked could their intentions be? They failed you on Iraq, on everything. Eject these fucks from both houses!
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Posted by: common intelligence on Oct 2, 2008 4:49 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So I'm forced to take a stand against terrony in my country because know one will fight for me. I will not accept ignorant people accepting being screwed and making me get screwed because they have accepted being complient with a bunch of thieves.
This is my country dam it And I will not comply with allowing the congress tell me I have to bail out anyone. Because they are stupid enough to get sucked into a corrupt system.
Thanks for the info but I have to ask...How do they expect to get tax from people that aren't employed ? Who is going to actually have to pay and how are they going to suck it out of us. Even more so what are they going to tax? I mean what is worthless paper as an investment of behalf of the people really amount to?
The bill supporters propound that the people will benefit in the future when the investment is then sold. SOLD TO WHO? What is it they are going to sell? worthless paper IOUs?
But more so understand this. I knew this dibackle was in the wakeback before Bush cut out the "bankruptsy" bill.
I KNEW the system was flawed and this was inevitably coming down long ago. SO I didn't buy into the scam of Buying a house I knew was impossible to meet the balloon payments even though I was told I could qualify. I didn't buy into the 401K scam because I knew that there was no way to guarantee an ever increasing growth market that would insure a nice retirement based on this scam.
So Answer me this Why would ibe obliged to to pay to bailout the system that I didn;'t buy into? Full well knowig it was flawed and a pyramid scam?
Why should I be obliged to accept cutting my throat to save a stupid inept population and even vote for leaders that won't address the issues?
I claim exempt.
I would love to take it to court. But I know the bastards that have plotted this path would never allow it to come to the forfront of the news and the MSM will never cover it and I could never have enough $ to afford Legal counsel that would be worth a damn.
Then too the IRS would garnish every person that would refuse to pay into the fund. There by isolating one and the other from colludig against the system such as the Bush Admin has done to the people.
I continue to say VOTE NO TO A BAILOUT, because there is nothing to bailout. The value of the so called investments is just falling to show their true value. The whole scam was a sham and I can not be made to pay for a scam. IT"S AGAINST THE LAW. and extorsion is too.
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Posted by: opmoc on Oct 2, 2008 6:48 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just watch the Fucking Video - it doesn't mean you have to join an army and shoot people - the current crisis will be resolved by education not weapons
You too can start a business to do something useful and employ people to do something good for us all.
We don't just have to destroy to try and protect our territory
No-one wants to invade America
Basket Case
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XKOwGffqlbM
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Posted by: opmoc on Oct 2, 2008 7:06 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sure I'm a Left Wing Capitalist
But Fuck Me
The Republicans Have Been SHOWING Up The Democrats - about their determination and courage to get rid of this EVIL
Just Say The Truth
It Won't Hurt You
Well O.K. Maybe a bit in the short term - but in the long run - everyone will respect you for standing up and saying this is not right regardless of your political view.
Can't we all UNITE against CORRUPTION
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Posted by: opmoc on Oct 2, 2008 8:19 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Quiet
Oh fuck me - we really are going through a crisis but in the midst of it it is really nice to meet people rom totally different cultures within the "rich Western World" and share values and experiences
We are next going again to India and a couple of months later I am going to summon up my fear of MALARIA and go with my wife again to
AFRICA
Tony
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» RE: ALL The Americans We Met Over The Last TWO Weeks in The Greek Islands Were REALLY Nice
Posted by: blogbooks
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Posted by: blogbooks on Oct 2, 2008 8:22 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You may be genuine, author of this article, but you still go to bed with a den of wolves.
We're the prey. You will be too - and soon, if you don't fall in line with your masters.
They're more than willing to play dirty.
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Posted by: Rbronfman on Oct 4, 2008 7:09 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No matter how you slice it, this bailout will not solve any of this nation's economic problems. All it insures is the banks and corporates will continue to keep doing busienss as usual. We are supporting very corrupt institutions that do nothing for the welfare of this country. Had president Bush given the money directly to the homeowners who are in trouble on their mortgages, rather than to the banks, would make a greater impact to infuse money back into the economy an the banks, and help homeowners to pay off their mortgages. In the meanwhile, the government needs to regulate the banks and Wall Street severely. Dish out stiff prison terms to corporate execs and banking officials. If the government refuses to do it, then it is time to have another French style Revolution where the Bastilles in Washington are stormed and heads get lopped off.
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Posted by: Rbronfman on Oct 4, 2008 7:14 AM
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Posted by: blogbooks on Oct 4, 2008 12:24 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This didn't happen this week or last week or last year. America has been steadily moving in this directly for the past 100 years, at least. Again, this is normal.
A country where the masses are free, educated, and enjoy relative wealth and comfort is very rare indeed. This state of existence does not benefit the elite in any way. An affluent slave becomes fat and weak. Our masters have learned from the decadent and weak Baby Boom generation that they need to reign us in a bit, take away a bit of our allowance.
So let me spell out the future plain as day.
1. The Baby Boom generation had the highest standard of living that any American generation will ever enjoy. We've past the apex of human civilization insofar as the masses are concerned. The future is a return to poverty and barbarism.
2. The 3rd Infantry Division 1st Brigade Combat Team just stood up their operations under "NorthCOM." These battle hardened soldiers, that spent 35 of the past 60 months in Iraq killing people, are here to "subdue civil unrest and control crowds." These are battle hardened killers deployed on American soil for the purpose of controlling the American people by any means necessary. The future is violent subjugation of any who oppose the will of our masters.
3. The bailout is giving money to foreign banks because the system has "gone global." There, in a real manner, is no United States of America. We have already lost our sovereignty to the international banking system that controls the world. The future is one without a bill of rights, without sovereign nations, in which all pay homage to the international elite that will rule us all.
4. You need to wake the fuck up and realize that this isn't something you can ignore any longer. This isn't just the rantings of the Unabomber and nut jobs on the 'net. This is real and this, for the most part, has ALREADY happened. You cannot stay in your yuppy bubble worlds much longer. This is coming to a location near you - and soon. Look out for yourself and anyone you want to protect. The future is indeed a return to barbarism.
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Posted by: Direct Democracy on Oct 1, 2008 10:00 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml
FREE AMERICA
REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY
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» RE: For All The Good It Will Do You
Posted by: Rolomax
» RE: For All The Good It Will Do You
Posted by: Spot
» RE: turning off their emails
Posted by: sasquuatch55
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Oct 1, 2008 11:42 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Keep up the great work. I just wish there were more like you.
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» RE: My Man Bernie
Posted by: kwalla
» RE: My Man Bernie
Posted by: exasperated
» RE: My Man Bernie
Posted by: bluebirdella
» Bernie, Taxed or not they can't get "blood out of a Stone"! I claim Exempt!
Posted by: common intelligence
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Posted by: Jeanne on Oct 2, 2008 12:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Alternative
Posted by: kitty1967
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Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Oct 2, 2008 12:07 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To think any flavor of Wall Street rigged “bailout” will solve the economy and accountability for it much less what really counts at America owns the thought process of a fool. And a serial fool at that.
The FASCIST parasite corporate crime ruling class that created this bloody mess is literally banking on citizen sheep to stay home and let blood money BS swindler "experts" that sold them down the river to do it again.
If that happens, America is doomed and deserves to be.
“You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out.”
President Andrew Jackson (the 7th President publicly pledging to defeat international monopolist bankers to their face in his speech. Jackson was the last president to vanquish a global cartel in its plans for a privately owned “U.S.” central bank. Quote 1832)
“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the government of the U.S. ever since the days of Andrew Jackson. History depicts Andrew Jackson as the last truly honorable and incorruptible American president.”
President FDR (on de facto Fascist rule in a letter to corporate monopoly charlatan “Colonel” Edward M. House, co-founder of the Council on Foreign Relations and political fixer for the ruling class. House also handled President Wilson. 11/21/ l933)
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» RE: Dishonorable Andrew Jackson
Posted by: americansheep
» RE: Dishonorable Andrew Jackson
Posted by: DaBear
» Honorable Andrew Jackson
Posted by: PointMan
» FDR didn't think so. Jackson had issues with people of Color (so did ALL the founders)
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» RE: FDR didn't think so. Jackson had issues with people of Color (so did ALL the founders)
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: FDR didn't think so. Jackson had issues with people of Color (so did ALL the founders)
Posted by: PointMan
» RE: FDR didn't think so. Jackson had issues with people of Color (so did ALL the founders)
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: FDR didn't think so. Jackson had issues with people of Color (so did ALL the founders)
Posted by: PointMan
» RE: "(especially ones with grade school spelling skills)"
Posted by: channing
» RE: FDR didn't think so. Jackson had issues with people of Color (so did ALL the founders)
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: There you go EncinoM, defending the elite to your dying breath
Posted by: channing
» RE: FDR didn't think so. Jackson had issues with people of Color (so did ALL the founders)
Posted by: PointMan
» RE: FDR didn't think so. Jackson had issues with people of Color (so did ALL the founders)
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: FDR didn't think so. Jackson had issues with people of Color (so did ALL the founders)
Posted by: EncinoM
Comments are closed-
Posted by: daphrey on Oct 2, 2008 12:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
JP Morgan
Goldman Sachs
Bank of America
Citigroup
We'd still own the toxic waste, but we'd own the equity as well. Once the mess was cleared off we could make some money back by re-listing the companies.
Just another variant on why the current plan is such a stinker.
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» RE: Since we're gonna spend $700,000,000,000 anyway
Posted by: richholland
» RE: Since we're gonna spend $700,000,000,000 anyway
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» Thanks!
Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Thanks!
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Thanks!
Posted by: photon's feather
» BUY JP Morgan Goldman Sachs Bank of America Citigroup... All for only $700B
Posted by: channing
» Speaking of Bank Of America ...
Posted by: TarryFaster
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Posted by: mmckinl on Oct 2, 2008 12:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now we know the answer. It's because, behind the scenes, Henry Paulson and Co. were working out a deal to dump the whole trillion dollar mess on the US taxpayer. That's what this whole $700 billion boondoggle is all about; wiping out the massive debts that were generated in the biggest incident of fraud in history. Rep Brad Sherman explained it like this last night to Larry Kudlow:
"It (The bill) provides hundreds of billions of dollars of bailouts to foreign investors."
Yes, ladies and gentlemen, we are paying for Wall Streets illegal sales of these toxic assets overseas.
Not One Dime!
Screwed by Goldman Sacks Again !
In case you haven't heard the CEO of Goldman was in the room when AIG got bailed out ... Why is this important ? That AIG bailout saved Goldman Sacks a cool 20 billion dollars. It only cost the tax payers 85 billion in loans.
Wall Street's Infinite Sleaze:
Keep calling Congress and tell them how you feel about paying hundreds of billions to Clean Up Wall Streets Crimes ...
Zip Code Link
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» Why not have the CEO of Goldman Sachs there?
Posted by: photon's feather
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Posted by: georgiaorwell on Oct 2, 2008 1:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No matter how you spin it, the Senate plan sticks it to the middle class and is a 'top down' bail out (which they're spinning now as 'rescue'). I have been an Obama supporter, but I cannot and will not 'buy into' the crap that the Senate bail out plan is going to help everyday Americans because it does not. I would like to see Obama get behind the DiFasio proposal - it will show what he truly understands about the economy - same with McCain.
C'mon, folks, this is just some more political bull that's being promoted at the expense of taxpayers. I have definitely and irrevocably given up on the Senate Dems - you can't tell the difference between most of them and the Repugs. This is one time I admire the Repubs who have stood against the present bail out plans. Bottom line - if the present Senate bail out plan goes through, the Congressional Senators and Reps who support it should not be voted back into office.
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» RE: Let's get real
Posted by: login@bugmenot.com
» RE: Let's get real
Posted by: georgiaorwell
» On Democracy Now, Kucinich said to Goodman:
Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Let's get real
Posted by: herronsmith
» RE: Let's get real
Posted by: Ayuh!
» Change you can believe in my ass!
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» But Obama says it's OK
Posted by: eeezzz
» *I* can tell the difference
Posted by: sln70
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Posted by: Drume on Oct 2, 2008 3:08 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» From Thomas:
Posted by: photon's feather
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Posted by: rancespergl on Oct 2, 2008 3:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm barely employed despite a college education and high skills.
The rich people owe it to us, the America that gave them their fortune.
MAKE THE RICH PAY.
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» RE: Make the Rich Pay
Posted by: helenahanbasquet
» RE: Make the Rich Pay
Posted by: walldodger1969
» RE: Make the Rich Pay
Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Make the Rich Pay
Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Make the Rich Pay
Posted by: Ethical1
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Posted by: socialpsych on Oct 2, 2008 3:25 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Bend over, folks
Posted by: cellorelio
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Posted by: Godfather89 on Oct 2, 2008 3:56 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its great to see most of the real Americans united against the bailout but you know what? This is only one of a few things America should be united behind.
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» RE: The Price To Pay...
Posted by: HoboHomo
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Posted by: whoopingcrone on Oct 2, 2008 4:44 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He sells knick-knacks ‘til they’re done
Chorus:
With a knick-knack, paddy whack,
Gives a bank a loan;
This old man comes rolling home.
This old man, he buys two;
He sells knick-knacks five to two
Chorus:
This old man, he buys three;
He sells knick-knacks from our trees
Chorus:
This old man comes rolling home.
This old man, he plays four;
Pastes his knick-knacks on our doors
Chorus:
This old man, he plays five;
His investments take a dive.
Chorus:
This old man, he plays six;
Knick-knacks nothing but a bunch of tricks.
Chorus:
This old man, he rolls seven;
He’ll play knick-knack on the way to heaven'
Chorus:
This old man, he plays eight;
Selling knick-knacks early and late.
Chorus:
This old man, he buys nine;
Sells his knick-knacks down the line
Chorus:
This old man, he buys ten;
Tries to knick-knack once again;
Stop his knick-knacks, paddy whacks,
Let him own his loans, Then this old man can’t get your home.
NO BAIL 4 THE WALL STREET WEASELS.
see the go-with pics at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/digilager"
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Posted by: Vic Fedorov on Oct 2, 2008 4:47 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let the people discuss what makes sense to them, what they want from each other.
Our current economy is not meant to be, don't save it.
Too many people don't actually produce anything.
All those houses built approved by local officials, when local officials are neither state nor people, violated the tenth amendment's reservations of power for the state or the people.
Our founders intended for free assemblies as a form of local self-rule by the people. These free assemblies should discuss the economy. If you asked the people, they would say they don't like this economy.
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Posted by: 911FalseFlag on Oct 2, 2008 4:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Predatory lending, which used to be the province of criminal loan sharks, is now the norm in the lending industry in the US.
Today's banking crisis is the THIRD trillion dollar plus US-caused financial meltdown in the last twenty years.
Each one of these crises came into being through the same basic mechanism...the fraudulent over-valuing of financial assets by Wall Street - with a "wink and a nod" (and sometimes a lot more) from the White House and Congress.
The fraudulently valued assets stimulate the economy, impart the illusion of health and then, inevitably, the fraud goes too far and the whole house of card comes painfully crashing back to earth.
Go to my website, www.911insidejob.net and read many articles and watch videos on the well planned takedown of the US dollar by the Bush White House and the Federal Reserve Bank.
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» FYI
Posted by: TarryFaster
» RE: FYI
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: What valuable contributions you make EncinoM!
Posted by: channing
» RE: What valuable contributions you make EncinoM!
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: What a "real" world you behold EncinoM
Posted by: channing
» RE: What a "real" world you behold EncinoM
Posted by: EncinoM
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Erin on Oct 2, 2008 4:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: RedFoxOne on Oct 2, 2008 5:01 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
JIff
Online Privacy when it Counts
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Posted by: solrev on Oct 2, 2008 5:32 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: So what if the parastiic american or rather anglosaxon finance is destryed?good for humanity .
Posted by: avatar_singh
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Posted by: Karl.Ben on Oct 2, 2008 5:35 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe I'l go buy a $1 million house and see if I can't get Pelosi to pay for it!
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» RE: Gun down Pelosi please.
Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» RE: Back to the days of welfare abuse!
Posted by: phatkhat
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Posted by: photon's feather on Oct 2, 2008 5:46 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(such as Feingold and Tester) and filibustered?
We needed more than 25 "No" votes.
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» RE: Thank you for your vote, Senator Sanders, but...
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Thank you for your vote, Senator Sanders, but...
Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Thank you for your vote, Senator Sanders, but...
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Thank you for your vote, Senator Sanders, but...
Posted by: photon's feather
Comments are closed-
Posted by: nochicagoboys on Oct 2, 2008 5:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No, Senator, you're most definitely not the only person in America who believes we're all being railroaded into oblivion. It's apparent to me that like the Bush administration, our legislative body, save for a few brave people like yourself, is a den of thieves. Thank you for all that you do, not only for your home state of Vermont, but for all of the citizens of these United States -- whether they're aware of it or not. You're a true patriot, Sir, and there are not enough like you.
AlterNet readers: For a good comprehensive look at how the vote in the Senate looked last night, view the map published in this morning's online New York Times. Put a name to a face, and then, all of us, e-mail or call the traitors who voted to push this bill full of pig shit, and let them know we're totally disappointed and disgusted with their sellout of the American people to the moneyed-elite of Wall Street.
Thank you, again, Senator Sanders.
And...thank you, John. You were an inspiration to millions. Your work applies more, now, than ever.
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» Excellent map!
Posted by: ebishirl
» RE: excellent map!
Posted by: nochicagoboys
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Posted by: Nedtheredhead on Oct 2, 2008 5:55 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Think again America.
The financial market is not inclusive to the US alone, the money that was spent in this debacle came from ALL SECTIONS OF THE GLOBE. The money that is being repaid by the US Government, taxpayer money, is to prevent INTERNATIONAL INVESTORS FROM WITHDRAWING THEIR INVESTMENTS AND CRASHING THE AMERICAN ECONOMY COMPLETELY.
If, as some suggest, the Congress defeats this bill, and little to no tax money is poured into save what is left of the US economy, it will get catastrophically worse. The invested money will be withdrawn by Europe, China, Russia, South East Asia, including Australia and New Zealand etc, and instead poured into another currency, probably the Euro, and other countries, such as China, Russia, India and Brazil.
Even if this bill gets passed and US taxpayer money is poured into save what can be saved, it will only serve to stabilise on the short term. Radical action will have to be taken to assure the big...overseas...investors that the US is a safe place to re invest in.
Look at the banks of other nations. Look at how they are tumbling. Look at how their Governments are topping them up to prevent them going to the wall. Do you really think those Governments will continue to support American investment without some serious changes to the way America has been fiscally trading till now?
This problem is not just big America, it is humongous.
I wish you well.
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» Fuck globalism
Posted by: socialpsych
» RE: Fuck globalism
Posted by: channing
» My thoughts exactly
Posted by: socialpsych
» RE: My thoughts exactly
Posted by: Spot
» RE: My thoughts exactly
Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: My thoughts exactly
Posted by: channing
» RE: My thoughts exactly
Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: My thoughts exactly
Posted by: channing
» RE: My thoughts exactly
Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: My thoughts exactly
Posted by: Von
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Peter Mackrael on Oct 2, 2008 6:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Recent bail-outs have already cost the US taxpayers about $700bn. In addition, the government recently provided $700bn to European banks with no effect on liquidity. If this bill is approved, these interventions will increase US debt to about $12 trillion. Foreign lenders now hold about 40% of US debt. This bill may reassure them for a short while until they see that US debt continues to increase while GDP declines. This bill may delay but will certainly not prevent a recession in the US. This bail-out program will severely limit spending on social programs for many years to come!
Instead of solving the liquidity crisis, this bill will transfer $700bn from the poorest 90% (working taxpayers) to enrich the wealthiest 10% who hold debt derivatives and shares in these investment banks. Which debt will we buy and at what piece? This will provide a grand opportunity for graft and fraud. It will be impossible to establish a fair value for this worthless debt paper but consulting fees will be huge. While this bill transfers public wealth to political friends of both parties in the Wall Street community, it does nothing to prevent further consolidation and restructuring by US banks. These banks will soon demand more!
Here is one obvious solution. The five big investment banks: Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch, Lehman Brothers, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley have recently morphed into regular banks. In effect, these investment banks have increased their asset base while transferring their bad debt assets to commercial banks. If these new banks require additional liquidity, existing regulations allow them sell assets to private investors to raise additional capital. In addition, they can borrow from the Fed, their lender of last resort. This liquidity emergency is exactly what the Fed was created for. If these banks are still unable to obtain enough liquidity to provide consumer loans and adequate operating capital to US businesses, then and only then should the federal government buy or establish a national bank for this purpose.
Meanwhile we need to re-establish and enforce investment banking regulations. Also we need an independent investigation to understand how and why the investment banks and government got us into this liquidity crisis so it can be prevented in future. It is possible that stock manipulation and outright fraud has been committed in recent months.
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Posted by: TarryFaster on Oct 2, 2008 6:38 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: DrSuess on Oct 2, 2008 6:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fact is the laws did change- for the worse. The rules of good sense went out with the governmental regulations designed to protect the “little people”. Businesses were given a free pass to do anything free of the fear of government regulators. Businesses did what they do best- make money. But it was in a soul less and stupid way.
By throwing away all the rules of common sense and traditional practice they destroyed their own market. Banks that lend money to people who cannot pay- deserve their fate. Why would anyone encourage people to lie on their applications?
However, the real problem was that the banks lent to people telling the truth- but structured the loans in a predatory way- so that there was no chance that the people could repay. Who can possibly ever repay a 30% interest credit card? The loan is structured to create perpetual debt. It is like the old song about owing “my soul the company store”.
I recently watched the movie “Amazing Grace” about the end to the slave trade in Great Britain. All the arguments for slavery were financial ones. Slavery was “good” business. It was very profitable. As I watched those arguments for slavery- I realized that slavery is good business- but it is not good social policy.
Under Bush we moved to a place where “good business” overrode good social policy- and now we have a colossal mess- even for the businesses.
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Posted by: ellie on Oct 2, 2008 6:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
hey, one big question... when I was in grad school and had 450 pages to read overnight was totally out of it the next day and didn't remember 9/10th of what I slogged through... how does the average senator get that much read time and time to digest the ramifications for mark up in the first place???
bad bills make bad laws... this one is a whopper of band aids and innuendos... slow down congress, remember elections are right around the corner, or are the elections the reason to get this bill out for signing before regime change??? who is yanking who's chain with threats???
thanks senator sanders, you seem to be the only same one in house right now...
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» Most senators don't read the bills. They rely on the corporate media to control them.
Posted by: maxpayne
» Wasn't that the point of this manipulated 'crisis'?
Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: 3 pages = 450 pages... $700 bil = $850 bil and climbing...
Posted by: badkitty
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Posted by: deborama on Oct 2, 2008 6:50 AM
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» RE: the only decent man in the US Senate tells it like it is
Posted by: maxpayne
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Posted by: herronsmith on Oct 2, 2008 6:54 AM
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» RE: Thank you but it won't happen
Posted by: Spot
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Posted by: GrannyBgood on Oct 2, 2008 7:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Funny how all this rush coincides with the first time our troops are being stationed HERE (YESTERDAY, Oct 1st!) to patrol OUR streets "In case of civil unrest" since the days of the Civil War, after which they passed the Posse Comitas Act to outlaw quartering troops in the homeland (No doubt wiped away by Bush's Military Commissions Act of this summer!).
So WHAT are they planning for US that would cause "Civil Unrest"? (besides this huge rip-off!)
Another Tri-fecta for Bush, a canceled election, or just another STOLEN one?
Is THIS the new "October Surprise", or just setting us up for a worse one?
Thankyou, Bernie Sanders, for pointing out who really needs to pay for this "protection racket"!
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Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 2, 2008 7:08 AM
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» RE: AND THAT'S WHY WE NEED 3RD PARTY PROGRESSIVE/LIBERAL INDYS !!!!
Posted by: HoboHomo
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Posted by: photon's feather on Oct 2, 2008 7:11 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(Talk about a biased title.)
This particular defector is California Rep David Dreier - and he's taking the bribe offered by the Senate: a few ineffective band-aids for Main Street.
CAPITOL HILL SWITCHBOARD
TOLL FREE NUMBERS:
1-800-473-6711
1-800-828-0498
Once more, the list of who to thank and who to spank:
Roll Call 674
Please also direct their attention to the comment by Kucinich to Goodman on Democracy Now, September 29.
Democracy Now
Kucinich was told by a former head of the FDIC that the Bush administration had been forcing banks to maintain a higher cash reserve than normal, which naturally adds to constricting the flow of money. (If you read the transcript, you'll find the comment in the last statement by Kucinich just above/before the break. An additional minor comment also follows the break, if I recall correctly.)
Please tell whoever you call to tell the White House to stop manipulating/exacerbating the crisis!
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Posted by: Ayuh! on Oct 2, 2008 7:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2. Rank all candidates who gain ballot access in your state, without regard to their chances of winning.
3. Pay attention to polls in your state.
4. If your state is predicted to be a red or swing state, vote for the Democrat; if it's safely blue, vote for your first choice.
5. Change America!
It requires a bit of work, which is why most voters are party loyalists, which is why nothing ever changes. There's no need to cost the Democrats any elections; if people in safe states would vote for the more progressive third-party candidates the Democrats might get nervous and start becoming more progressive.
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» RE: Voting 101
Posted by: Ayuh!
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Posted by: cynyk on Oct 2, 2008 7:39 AM
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Posted by: eeezzz on Oct 2, 2008 7:48 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: We must obey Obama
Posted by: Spot
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Posted by: Illiteratilumen on Oct 2, 2008 8:01 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Barack had lost my vote
Posted by: xvictor
» so what are you going to do about it?
Posted by: wefearwhatwedontunderstand
» Vote your conscience
Posted by: DCostello2
» Political Hedonism
Posted by: pdxjoe
» I've read your post several times and I still don't understand it.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» If you could point out...
Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: so what are you going to do about it? 3rd Party!
Posted by: left_libertarian
» Funny yet sadly true. :=(
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Funny yet sadly true. :=(
Posted by: HoboHomo
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Posted by: grkjr on Oct 2, 2008 8:08 AM
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Posted by: pdxjoe on Oct 2, 2008 8:18 AM
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There is a significant group of Americans, and not just Wall Street fat-cats or Hedge Fund attorneys, but people who live down the street from me and many of you who want this bailout to pass. These people are worried often enough of the same thing---THEIR investments and, by extension, THEIR retirement.
These people have been given to suck at the teet of speculative capital for long enough that they would, along with a number of their congressmen, do anything not to lose the illusion that capitalism works.
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» RE: One Thing This Bill Does Address
Posted by: EncinoM
» Savings vs. Investment
Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: Savings vs. Investment
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Savings vs. Investment
Posted by: badkitty
» Have Your Cake and Eat It Too
Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: Have Your Cake and Eat It Too
Posted by: EncinoM
» No Problem
Posted by: pdxjoe
» RE: No Problem
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: No Problem
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: No Problem
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: One Thing This Bill Does Address
Posted by: Spot
» RE: One Thing This Bill Does Address
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: One Thing This Bill Does Address
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: One Thing This Bill Does Address
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: One Thing This Bill Does Address
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: One Thing This Bill Does Address
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: One Thing This Bill Does Address
Posted by: maxpayne
Comments are closed-
Posted by: grindermonkey on Oct 2, 2008 8:42 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Peter DeFazio (D-Ore)has a better idea. Set up a graduated tax system for Wall Street that sets tax rates commensurate with the risk of each type of financial instrument. These revenues could protect the government from future disasters. Let's reinstate a Glass Steagal arrangement that separates Wall Street speculation from Main Street banking and finance. Just as the Constitution separates Church from State, the congress should create an impermeable wall between Wall Street and Main Street to protect personal assets from larcenous, frivolous speculation and derivatives that the SEC seems unable to regulate.
CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN AND TELL HIM THAT YOU WANT YOUR MONEY AND GOVERNMENT BACK.
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Posted by: xvictor on Oct 2, 2008 8:43 AM
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"It's easier being a dictator."
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» RE: "It easier being a dictator." Yes, in a pseudo democracy...
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: Gravitas on Oct 2, 2008 9:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: X-POLYGAMIST WIFE on Oct 2, 2008 9:31 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Watch the video:
BANKING ON HEAVEN .COM
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Posted by: Blueprelude on Oct 2, 2008 9:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» who is?
Posted by: wefearwhatwedontunderstand
» RE: who is?.... single issue voter?! Jeezis, drink all the koolaid, why don'tcha
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: who is?
Posted by: Blueprelude
» RE: who is?
Posted by: left_libertarian
» RE: No Surprise Obama Voted For It!
Posted by: Democritus
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Posted by: Landbaron on Oct 2, 2008 9:58 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: ventually the workinking class will be working till they're
Posted by: DaBear
» Re: Where the fuck have you been?
Posted by: Landbaron
» Find work you really love to do - or become a Wall Street Wanker!
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: hoorah on Oct 2, 2008 10:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some people fail to realize that past and current legislation has already failed to prevent this current recession. And yet they choose to gleefully believe that life will get better for the rest of us if we bail out the crooks who caused this economic crisis. And once will not be enough. They will continue with their cheating, stealing, embezzling, lying and scheming with the blessings of the U.S. government. Only this time (through "new and improved legislation" in their favor), they'll have a steady flow of taxpayer funded financial backing to help keep them afloat. I suppose that after that river runs dry. Those of us who have managed to hang on to our homes, cars and other assets will face government seizures. There is no one alive who can convince me that "taxpayer-funded corporate welfare" will save the U.S. economy.
I didn't see anything in the previous bill that would benefit any non-corporate entity in the United States. Supposedly in the U.S. Senate's revised version of the "Corporate-Welfare Bill" (CWB), bank accounts will be insured at or up to around $250,000. Great for those who need that amount of monetary insurance from the FDIC.
Similar to what Senator Sanders has stated. Neither the past nor the revised "CORPORATE BAIL-OUT BILL" is of any benefit to non-wealthy Americans. It will accomplish nothing to prevent unsound/unethical business practices from occurring in the future. Furthermore. From what I hear. President Bush nor the members of congress have consulted with economists, prior to rushing to pass the "Finish Bankrupting The American Citizens" bill (FBTAC). I'm sure that many members of congress want to be re-elected to office this November. Realize this. U.S. citizens may wisely vote you out of office this time around. And that would be poetic justice regardless of how some of you will vote on any bill from now until election day! Nancy was right. "The Party Is Over." Time to pack up and go home.
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» RE: WE'VE GOT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE ECONOMY (PART 2)
Posted by: hoorah
» where are all the real economists?
Posted by: wefearwhatwedontunderstand
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Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Oct 2, 2008 10:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» but we need to stop the worse of two evils now
Posted by: wefearwhatwedontunderstand
» RE: but we need to stop the worse of two evils now
Posted by: Spot
» RE: but we need to stop the worse of two evils now - NO
Posted by: left_libertarian
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Posted by: ashbaines on Oct 2, 2008 10:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All week everybody has been whining about the $700 "defeat" in the house...
The Fed injected $630 billion on Monday just before the vote... Google Bloomberg Fed $630 billion.
then on Wednesday the chimp signed a bill for the EXACT same amount... even my best informed friends didn't know - or thought it was the same monies...
It most certainly was NOT -- they've spent 1 trillion 230 billion spent since monday
and all we are hearing about is the next 700 billion.....
when does the shootin start?
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» I'm surprised they even ran this one by us...
Posted by: eeezzz
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Posted by: DaBear on Oct 2, 2008 10:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the mountains, they'd just burn down your fucking barn or blowup your car. Mebbe it's time for that. non-violence hasn't worked... we've gotten screwed worse for all our marchin' and bitchin'. Maybe that's who we're really dealing with is a bunch of thugs. Thugs only understand one thing, the fist.
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» What Would Violent Revolution Look Like...
Posted by: pdxjoe
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Posted by: janvdb on Oct 2, 2008 10:56 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Disaggregate the toxic mortgage backed securities and all their derivative products. Release the value of the underlying mortgages, most of which are sound, from their destructive Wall Street packaging. This would improve bank solvency. Then, use taxpayer money to buy new stock in these banks, recapitalizing them only as necessary.
Treasury should compile a list of problem bond issuances and all derivities thereof. It should give all current owners 48 hours to identify their holdings of said problem bond tranches. Meanwhile, Treasury should unbundle these packages of bonds down to their constituent mortgages. Then, Treasury should distribute the underlying mortgages to the current owners of these products on a prorata basis reflecting the estimated value of their current holdings.
The underlying mortgages are easily valued using standard software for calculating the discounted present value of a Deed of Trust (DoT). Missed payments take a specified nick from the value of the DoT. Mortgages near or in foreclosure can be valued at the independently appraised value of the underlying real estate.
Even the sickest real estate in the sickest parts of California and Florida is selling to vultures. It has a price.
The total of the discounted present value of the constituent mortgages and foreclosed-on real estate underlying a specific bond tranche is the value of that bond tranche and all its derivatives.
The underlying mortgages in each bond should be ranked by quality (determined by payment history and loan-to-value ratio) and distributed to the holders of the various "slices" of the bundle based on the risk level of the "slice" they bought.
The riskmongers who bought high-risk "equity slices," for instance, should get the stuff now in foreclosure.
Mortgages with untenable specifications should be converted to 30-year fixed-rate notes before redistribution; this could prevent many foreclosures.
As for the most exotic products, something, which is “difficult to value,” and “illiquid”, is worthless. Those who produce and buy this garbage should deal with the consequences of their own actions.
Unbundling would release significant increases in value, possibly enough to re-capitalize most holders of the products. All original bonds and all derivities based on them would be made null and void.
Re-do corporate books with these new values.
Then, Paulsen would be required use taxpayer money to buy newly issued stock in those banks which are still short of capital and too big to fail, at current stock prices (without releasing the results of the revaluation). He would be empowered only to bring required reserve ratios to a specified level, and this only for loan-making institutions.
Taxpayers would almost certainly make money over 5 years.
Buy no toxic assets!!
Remember, the point of this exercise is to preserve the flow of loans to Main Street. Investment banks and hedge funds don't make loans, so let them fail.
Even at 8% unemployment, something like 95% of US mortgage payments will continue to be made. The vast majority of US mortgages are still solid.
The individual Deeds of Trust or Mortgages inside these ugly wraps are going to continue to produce payment income in the vast majority of cases, even in a depression.
It is the packaging, slapped on by Wall Street, which is destroying the value of these DoTs.
Looking forward, let's not package mortgages. They are too diverse and need closer management.
Jan VanDenBerg
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Posted by: firewashington on Oct 2, 2008 11:32 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I keep telling them to go with the Kucinich plan but they won't listen. What can you do if your representatives refuse to listen to you?
I am outraged about our worthless government. We all pay taxes but how many of us get a return on our taxes? In L.A. we know that our tax dollars don't go to roads, water or clean air. The TERMINATOR just vetoed the health reform bill and doesn't care about what the people want either.
We need to fire everyone in Washington who votes for the senate bailout plan which does not benefit the taxpayers but only the criminal wealthy who probably won't see one day in prison.
So many of us have contacted our representatives about the executive compensation issue. If you look at the 450 page bill on c-span.org and do a search under "executive compensation", you'll see there is a couple of paragraphs of rubish....just language that is thrown in there that means absolutely nothing. It's just put in the bill so they can say that the bill adressed the issue which it does NOT!!
If this thing passes, the only other alternative is to refuse to pay taxes to line the pockets of the rich and the wars lords.
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» RE: Sick of this Corrupt Government
Posted by: Landbaron
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Posted by: Democritus on Oct 2, 2008 11:46 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm disappointed in Obama for playing it safe. It provides evidence for the claim that he can give a pretty speech but does little else. As for McCain, it's typical behavior from a man who calls himself a maverick but votes with the rest of the branded stock when it counts.
Let's hope the House declines to go along with the Senate. Let's hope they take this pig to the slaughterhouse. If not, we're the ones whose bacon gets stolen once again by the big-money banking interests.
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Posted by: yoma on Oct 2, 2008 12:28 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: GLOMO on Oct 2, 2008 1:06 PM
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» Only 'Following Orders'
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Oct 2, 2008 1:19 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also tried calling the phone number listed on the page, rings but no answer.
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» RE: house.gov website/email is swamped
Posted by: Spot
» He lives in Nebraska ! How can you expect him to ride a bike to Washington ?
Posted by: maxpayne
» thanks Max!
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: house.gov website/email is swamped
Posted by: badkitty
» badkitty--got my message through thanks to your advice!
Posted by: zooeyhall
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Posted by: Cathyc on Oct 2, 2008 3:17 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Can I come live with you?
Posted by: eeezzz
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Posted by: opmoc on Oct 2, 2008 3:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And I slowly get up to speed and read some really interesting stuff posted below...but also take immediate action to illustrate the truth contained below
My son has a rapidly growing business but has recently had some accidents that were nothing whatsoever to do with his business but did have some adverse effects
So he takes remedial action and actually succeeds in getting his banks support...
So I says to him - what is the total amount of your debts (not including what he already owes me) and he told me (eventually)
It was significantly more than he paid for the almost identical sports car that he had just bought to replace the one's who's pistons he had disolved.
So I nearly doubled it
(his total debt)
And said I want it all repaying with interest on exactly the same terms of the original loan.
He is 20 years old and now owes me about $20,000 US Dollars including interest
But the Bank is now PAYING him Interest
Until he spends it all to grow his business even faster
Bankers are Wankers and should be treated as Water Utilities
Extract from "The Great Bank Robbery of 2008"
http://mises.org/story/3132
which linked to the following extract
http://thecurrent.theatlantic.com/
archives/2008/09/not-buying-it.php
" So what's special about banks [that they deserve a bailout]? According to what I keep reading, it's that without banks, nobody can borrow, and the economy grinds to a halt.
Well, let's think about that. Banks don't lend their own money; they lend other people's (their depositors' and their stockholders'). Just because the banks disappear doesn't mean the lenders will. Borrowers will still want to borrow and lenders will still want to lend. The only question is whether they'll be able to find each other.
… [A]s any user of match.com can tell you, the technology for finding partners has improved since [the 1930s]. When a firm wants to raise capital, why can't it just sell bonds over the web? Or issue new stock? Or approach one of the hedge funds that seem to be swimming in cash? Or borrow abroad?
… I'm not sure these big Wall Street banks are really necessary, and I'm not sure we'd miss them much if they were gone. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but if so, I think it should be incumbent on Messrs. Bernanke, Paulson and above all Bush to explain what it is."
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Posted by: fanny666 on Oct 2, 2008 3:21 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: avatar_singh on Oct 2, 2008 3:37 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bailout fraud October 2, 2008, 13:28
Bailout fraud
The $700 Bln bailout is not about US cash. The U.S. is a debtor nation. The cash for the bailout has to be borrowed, primarily from the Japanese and Chinese.
According to one person I've spoken to who knows the top Japan and China banking regulators, they are not happy about the U.S. p***ing their money up the wall.
The better informed congressmen have lines of communication to the Chinese & Japanese and know they can't sell it.
Bush in Tuesday's speech insisted the toxic assets could, if held for some years, be sold at a profit.
That's plain rubbish. If that was the case, there would be no need for a bailout. Banks could just sit on their assets until they recover in value. The problem is, they were so wildly overvalued, they are not going to recover in value.
How were they so wildly overvalued. You won't read it in the FT or hear it on the BBC but clearly the answer is lies and fraud.
Even more important
This is not a liquidity crisis. On Tuesday night, European banks deposited well over 100 Billion euros at the ECB. The banks were not prepared to leave their money for one night in a retail bank. Perhaps, they know something we don't?
If the banks deposited E100 Bln there is no shortage of cash. The point is they won't lend it. Not to each other, not to companies, not to home buyers, except at rates which make a mockery of the word 'lending'.
This is a default crisis. Banks and large corporations are going to default. The banks know that. The public do not yet.
What is the answer
Hank Paulson, the dour looking ex-Goldman Sachs trader worth $500 Mln, says there is no alternative to buying the banks failed betting slips.
There are several alternatives. One is to let the Japanese and Chinese buy the US's failed investment banks. They already own large chunks but politically the US cannot stomach Asia buying the Ivy League banks.
Barter their assets. In 1998 the IMF told Russia that it should not bail out its banks. Ten years later the IMF is encouraging the US to do just that. One rule for the emerging markets, another for the Masters of the Universe.
Russia dealt with illiquid banks by knocking their heads together and forcing them to swap assets at knockdown prices. Washington does not have the balls for that. It proposes using taxpayers money to buy assets the banks don't want. It is a recapitalisation of the banks by stealth and lie.
God help us.
By Mark Gay, RT
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» RE: ussia and the world understand this bail out fraud more than many americans.
Posted by: avatar_singh
» avatar_singh - You are probably more right than I realised - Us British are Cnuts
Posted by: opmoc
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Posted by: Drume on Oct 2, 2008 3:57 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can someone please respond asap?
Direct me to a web site, anything...
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» RE: Practicle Time Sensitive Question: Please answer
Posted by: badkitty
» RE: Practicle Time Sensitive Question: Please answer
Posted by: Drume
» RE: Practicle Time Sensitive Question: Please answer
Posted by: badkitty
Comments are closed-
Posted by: TREEGUY on Oct 2, 2008 4:04 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I tell you what lets just roll back to when bush entered office and erase everything he has done.
I am fed up (no pun intented).
National Id's (rfid chips)
Homeland security (dismantle it)
Get out of Iraq. (we are just pissing people off by being there).
Let the rich feed themselves.
I am sorry for all americans who suffered under this administration, and prior administrations.
But enough is enough, I want my country back
I want my constitution back.
It's time to rise to the occasion.
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Posted by: InsertNameHere on Oct 2, 2008 4:15 PM
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The Democratic establishment has enabled every infringement on rights, attack on the middle class and illegal move the Republicans have made in the last eight years and with this bailout, how much more naked could their intentions be? They failed you on Iraq, on everything. Eject these fucks from both houses!
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Posted by: common intelligence on Oct 2, 2008 4:49 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So I'm forced to take a stand against terrony in my country because know one will fight for me. I will not accept ignorant people accepting being screwed and making me get screwed because they have accepted being complient with a bunch of thieves.
This is my country dam it And I will not comply with allowing the congress tell me I have to bail out anyone. Because they are stupid enough to get sucked into a corrupt system.
Thanks for the info but I have to ask...How do they expect to get tax from people that aren't employed ? Who is going to actually have to pay and how are they going to suck it out of us. Even more so what are they going to tax? I mean what is worthless paper as an investment of behalf of the people really amount to?
The bill supporters propound that the people will benefit in the future when the investment is then sold. SOLD TO WHO? What is it they are going to sell? worthless paper IOUs?
But more so understand this. I knew this dibackle was in the wakeback before Bush cut out the "bankruptsy" bill.
I KNEW the system was flawed and this was inevitably coming down long ago. SO I didn't buy into the scam of Buying a house I knew was impossible to meet the balloon payments even though I was told I could qualify. I didn't buy into the 401K scam because I knew that there was no way to guarantee an ever increasing growth market that would insure a nice retirement based on this scam.
So Answer me this Why would ibe obliged to to pay to bailout the system that I didn;'t buy into? Full well knowig it was flawed and a pyramid scam?
Why should I be obliged to accept cutting my throat to save a stupid inept population and even vote for leaders that won't address the issues?
I claim exempt.
I would love to take it to court. But I know the bastards that have plotted this path would never allow it to come to the forfront of the news and the MSM will never cover it and I could never have enough $ to afford Legal counsel that would be worth a damn.
Then too the IRS would garnish every person that would refuse to pay into the fund. There by isolating one and the other from colludig against the system such as the Bush Admin has done to the people.
I continue to say VOTE NO TO A BAILOUT, because there is nothing to bailout. The value of the so called investments is just falling to show their true value. The whole scam was a sham and I can not be made to pay for a scam. IT"S AGAINST THE LAW. and extorsion is too.
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Posted by: opmoc on Oct 2, 2008 6:48 PM
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Just watch the Fucking Video - it doesn't mean you have to join an army and shoot people - the current crisis will be resolved by education not weapons
You too can start a business to do something useful and employ people to do something good for us all.
We don't just have to destroy to try and protect our territory
No-one wants to invade America
Basket Case
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XKOwGffqlbM
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Posted by: opmoc on Oct 2, 2008 7:06 PM
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Sure I'm a Left Wing Capitalist
But Fuck Me
The Republicans Have Been SHOWING Up The Democrats - about their determination and courage to get rid of this EVIL
Just Say The Truth
It Won't Hurt You
Well O.K. Maybe a bit in the short term - but in the long run - everyone will respect you for standing up and saying this is not right regardless of your political view.
Can't we all UNITE against CORRUPTION
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Posted by: opmoc on Oct 2, 2008 8:19 PM
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Quiet
Oh fuck me - we really are going through a crisis but in the midst of it it is really nice to meet people rom totally different cultures within the "rich Western World" and share values and experiences
We are next going again to India and a couple of months later I am going to summon up my fear of MALARIA and go with my wife again to
AFRICA
Tony
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» RE: ALL The Americans We Met Over The Last TWO Weeks in The Greek Islands Were REALLY Nice
Posted by: blogbooks
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Posted by: blogbooks on Oct 2, 2008 8:22 PM
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You may be genuine, author of this article, but you still go to bed with a den of wolves.
We're the prey. You will be too - and soon, if you don't fall in line with your masters.
They're more than willing to play dirty.
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Posted by: Rbronfman on Oct 4, 2008 7:09 AM
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No matter how you slice it, this bailout will not solve any of this nation's economic problems. All it insures is the banks and corporates will continue to keep doing busienss as usual. We are supporting very corrupt institutions that do nothing for the welfare of this country. Had president Bush given the money directly to the homeowners who are in trouble on their mortgages, rather than to the banks, would make a greater impact to infuse money back into the economy an the banks, and help homeowners to pay off their mortgages. In the meanwhile, the government needs to regulate the banks and Wall Street severely. Dish out stiff prison terms to corporate execs and banking officials. If the government refuses to do it, then it is time to have another French style Revolution where the Bastilles in Washington are stormed and heads get lopped off.
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Posted by: Rbronfman on Oct 4, 2008 7:14 AM
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Posted by: blogbooks on Oct 4, 2008 12:24 PM
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This didn't happen this week or last week or last year. America has been steadily moving in this directly for the past 100 years, at least. Again, this is normal.
A country where the masses are free, educated, and enjoy relative wealth and comfort is very rare indeed. This state of existence does not benefit the elite in any way. An affluent slave becomes fat and weak. Our masters have learned from the decadent and weak Baby Boom generation that they need to reign us in a bit, take away a bit of our allowance.
So let me spell out the future plain as day.
1. The Baby Boom generation had the highest standard of living that any American generation will ever enjoy. We've past the apex of human civilization insofar as the masses are concerned. The future is a return to poverty and barbarism.
2. The 3rd Infantry Division 1st Brigade Combat Team just stood up their operations under "NorthCOM." These battle hardened soldiers, that spent 35 of the past 60 months in Iraq killing people, are here to "subdue civil unrest and control crowds." These are battle hardened killers deployed on American soil for the purpose of controlling the American people by any means necessary. The future is violent subjugation of any who oppose the will of our masters.
3. The bailout is giving money to foreign banks because the system has "gone global." There, in a real manner, is no United States of America. We have already lost our sovereignty to the international banking system that controls the world. The future is one without a bill of rights, without sovereign nations, in which all pay homage to the international elite that will rule us all.
4. You need to wake the fuck up and realize that this isn't something you can ignore any longer. This isn't just the rantings of the Unabomber and nut jobs on the 'net. This is real and this, for the most part, has ALREADY happened. You cannot stay in your yuppy bubble worlds much longer. This is coming to a location near you - and soon. Look out for yourself and anyone you want to protect. The future is indeed a return to barbarism.
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